October 6, 2022 • 31 mins
Actor Sal Lopez spent months close to Edward James Olmos on the set of American Me and remembers the day he was told that people from the movie were dying.
Sal Lopez trained as a dancer, but his real breakout was when he went to his first casting call. Sal was part of the first wave of Mexican American actors to break into the mainstream, and American Me would be his magnum opus. But Sal was also in France at the peak of the movie’s success at the Cannes Film Festival when he was told that people connected to the film in LA were being killed.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We as human beings have the capability to be sacred
individuals who can elevate ourselves to to do angelic things,
to do kindness beyond you know what is we can imagine.
But we're also capable of brutality that we can we
(00:20):
can't even imagine. Welcome to more than a movie American Me,
a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of
American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James
almost that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture.
I'm your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll be diving into
the behind the scenes controversy every episode. I'm gonna try
(00:42):
to peel back a layer of the story by trying
to go deeper into the intentions and motives behind the
film and the backlash thirty years later. On today's episode,
we're talking about actor Sal Lopez, who plays Montoya's father
Pedro in the film. Sal Lopez always fantasized about becoming
an actor, even before he knew what it meant. He'd
(01:02):
eventually go on to star in movies like Full Metal
Jacket and Selena and TV shows like Barry, Queen of
the South, The Shield, An NYPD Blue and for the gamers,
you've heard his voice in Grand Theft, Auto and Red Dead, Redemption.
But amongst Latinos in Hollywood, he's also well known as
a founding member of Latino Theater Company, which developed the
careers of many big screen talents like actress Lupe and
(01:25):
Divedo's of Selena and playwrights Rivera Who This of Motorcycle
Diaries and In The Heights, respectively. It's where our episode
two guests, Raphael Augustine got his first professional experience that
led him to meet and eventually work with Edward James Almost.
It's definitely a big reason Sal Lopez ended up playing
Montoya Santana's father in American Me. That crew of regulars
(01:47):
that the Puppets mentioned in their episode that surrounded Edward
James almost, Sal was one of them. I was raised
here in Los Angeles SS centrally, uh, you know, in
the Florence area, and I never really uh, I mean,
I fantasized about acting. I loved going to the movies,
I mean, I just loved it. He loved going to
(02:08):
the movies, spending like fifty cents on a ticket, a
quarter for five candy bars and basically just dream. He
saw all kinds of movies with his family, especially Spanish
language ones, but he was most inspired by the epics.
And I must have been like eight years old and
we went to go see Jason and the Argonauts. They
had me at the Jason and the Argonauts. Like we've
(02:30):
heard from Jacob Vargas and pretty much everybody else on
this podcast, a career in Hollywood wasn't an obvious choice
for Salopez either, even for a kid who grew up
in l A. His mom was a homemaker and his
father was a shipping clerk at a furniture store, both
immigrants from Mexico and also like Jacob Vargas, Sal's way
into entertainment started with dance, in his case by Lefloudico
(02:51):
or Mexican folk dance. Eventually, some of his dance friends,
including a girl he liked, encouraged him to come audition
for this play that was about Chicano's. Like him, sal
had no idea about acting. I had no idea. You know.
I saw people you're going over their lines in the
in the parking lot, and uh, and I said to
(03:11):
my wife and girlfriend, then a friend friend, I said,
look at that. Look at those guys talking to themselves
in the parking lot, and she says, that's nothing. There's
girls in the bathroom and they're crying. But they were
going over their scenes, you know. But what did I know?
But this play was written in a kind of Chicano
slang that Sal had grown up with. I didn't have
(03:32):
to pretend, you know, I knew what it was, and
so I did it. And the director said, oh, you'll
learn the play was called zoot Suit. I'm guessing you
guys are seeing a pattern here. Edward James almost first
leading role zoot Suit. Danny de la Pass and Daniel
Vierrel both decided to pursue acting because they saw zoot Suit,
probably this very production actually, and now Sal's career as
(03:53):
an actor is starting with zoot Suit. Why does that matter?
Because that play is about the same things as American
means about. Essentially, an American mean doesn't exist without it.
Sal's even in a scene at the beginning of the
movie that takes place during the zoot Suit rights, you
got a problem being on the streets. Where are your colors?
Where are you? Who knows of Edward James almost even
(04:17):
becomes as obsessed with doing Latino themed work if he
hadn't started his career with such an overtly political and
rassa oriented piece like zoot Suit. So anyway, sal continues
doing plays and movies and hanging out in the Chicano
theater scene, becoming something of a fixture. He does this
movie version of zoot Suit, which leads to a bunch
of guest spots on legendary TV shows like Different Strokes, Chips,
(04:39):
Hill Street Blues five. He co founds the Latino Theater Company.
In eight seven, he's casting Full Metal Jacket. So by
the time casting began for American Me sells on everybody's list.
But career wise, things have begun slowing down for him.
I actually auditioned for Taylor Hackford's film First Blood and
Blood out right right, and uh, I audition for for
(05:01):
one of the main roles, and I didn't get it,
and then they offered me a smaller role. And uh,
you know, at the time, actually I really needed the job.
Actually I was, I was, you know, and it had
been a dry spell and I really needed the job,
and but I just didn't. I didn't, you know, I
felt like, wow, you know, they're gonna offered me this
(05:22):
instead of, you know, one of these more substant I
really felt like anyway you're saying, Hollywood at the time
was not just there wasn't an abundance of roles for
Latino actors at the time. That's shocking. Times they're changing.
I think they are, I really do. But uh so, anyway,
(05:44):
you know, as Destiny would have and I did turn
that down, and and then Eddies his screenplay, they had
a table read and they invited me to be part
of that, and uh that was that was how I
got got involved with that. It was it was a
great experience on that the whole casting thing for me
because I was going to play his father, and you know,
(06:05):
I was a young man back then, a very young
and I thought, well, how how are we going to
do this? So they because I feel like Edward James
almost has looked forty five since he was fifteen years
that you're right, You're right in the movie where it's
like him and his little brother, and I'm like, that's
your son, right, like that's you And he's not that
(06:26):
old in the movie. You know, he just has that gravitas.
That's true, true, true, But they brought in an older
actors to play you know, his dad as an older
as an older and they we had the screen tests
and it was really Uh, it was interesting because we
all screen tested at the same time, the older actors
(06:47):
and me as a young man. Then they put some
you know, superficial makeup and uh and after the auditions, Uh,
they said, now we're just gonna have Sell do it
and we're gonna put makeup on him. And that's how
how it ended up happening to me and makes sense
in the movie. Like I never once stopped in the
movie and said, this is weird. The guys too young
to because the point is he's not born yet, right,
(07:10):
and that's a critical kind of like twist. Oh yeah,
in the beginning of the beginning of the movie. Right. Um,
so there's like, uh, you're you know, you fit that.
I feel like it's easier to age you up than
have someone Look, it wasn't that easy, No, it wasn't.
What did you have to do? Well? First, so how
(07:31):
old were you? Oh gosh, I must have been in
my early early thirties, I think when I did it. Yeah,
and uh, they well, Kindias who's an you know, Oscar
nominated makeup artist. He was he was the head makeup guy,
and uh, we did the first time we put on
the makeup, it took fifteen hours in the chair. In
(07:52):
the chair, yeah, fifteen hours. They did a whole cast
of my head and my face and the whole thing.
So any way, the first time they applied it, because
you know, all the press prosthetics, it it took a
long long time. I mean, it always takes time, you know,
but this was I can't believe they used the prosthetics.
That's like so involved. Well they had to because you know,
(08:13):
I really needed to age. And what happened was because
they put on so much makeup the first time, we
couldn't do close ups on me. It was just the
prosthetics just looked too artificial. And then we had to
um taper it down and make it look more natural,
and we finally got it right after a few times
and it was less time, you know. But the table
(08:36):
read was really great because most of the actors that
were in the film were in the table read, and
Eddie was was really passionate about the project, and it
was I just, you know, I just admire him so
much because he had a vision and he was able
to just create that vision that he wanted and really
(08:56):
take the reins and be a leader and take this on.
You know, it was it was pretty major. He never
directed before, not that I know of, no, no, but yeah,
and he was great. He was great as as because
you know, he was an actor, so so it was
I remember his favorite phrase was just throw it away,
(09:16):
Just throw it away. I mean it was very it
isn't an exceptionally naturally acted film. There's just I mean,
you know, like some of the I was almost like
our art did he just find real people? You know
at certain times, but then when you look at the credits,
you're like, no, these are actors who are just they're
just killing it. You know. There were a few young
who were not, but you know they were right. They
(09:39):
were right for the parts. So it worked. Do you
remember your first day on on set? I do remember, No, No,
I do remember the first day on set. That was
the first day on set. Was the fifteen hour thing,
right right right, that was and it took all day
and then we shot that night and it's the first
time that Eddie sees his dad once he's out of
the joint, you know, And that was the first thing
(10:02):
we shot. The scene Cells talking about is one where
Santana SE's is a strange father pedro outside of a
wedding party on the street. There's a lot of weighted silences.
Then Santana asks mL sant got home a couple of
hours ago. I don't know if it bothers you. Almost
day coming up, we'll hear more about sales experiences on
(10:25):
set with Edward James almost and his reaction when he
heard about the murders. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
I'm Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez.
Sal's about to tell us what it was like to
just be a regular kid from l A who's suddenly
acting in movies. But they tell you. One of the
things that was really cool that happened to me was
(10:47):
that was on the you know, Universal Lot, and I'm
walking on you know, the Universal Lot, and of course
I had been there, you know, for the Universal Studios tour,
and suddenly this one of the tour busses come by,
you know, to or whatever, and it's full of tourists
and I'm like, wow, I'm in the lot and look
at these people. And then somebody in the tour bus
goes hey, sal like hey, and it was someone I
(11:13):
knew they were on the tour. You know, I love it.
I was so cool. It was like, what are you
doing here? I said, I'm doing a movie here, So yeah,
that was amazing. It's something that doesn't really happen to
a lot of actors in Hollywood, being recognized not because
you're famous or somebody saw you on TV, but because
you're just a dude for the neighborhood. We forget sometimes
(11:33):
that l A is an industry town. What Pittsburgh was
for steel, or Miami was for well cocaine, Los Angeles
is for entertainment. The only difference is that regular working
class people from those cities get jobs working for the
town mill or at a bank laundering money for Pablo Escobar,
as the case may be. But in l A, if
you're a regular working class Latino kid, you're not just
(11:54):
knocking on the doors of Universal Studio asking for a gig.
That creates this really unique situation where the actors involved
in American Men have a lived experience of life on
the streets of l A, including gangs that you wouldn't
get with many other kinds of movies. Here's sal again. Absolutely.
I mean I grew up in south central l A.
So I was. I mean, it's that was nothing foreign
(12:16):
to me. It was it was something that I that
I saw that I can't say I was in a
gang personally, but people very close to me were. And uh,
so I knew that life. And you know it's complicated,
right because these things go back many, many years, and
it's a culture. So I mean it's also something that's
(12:41):
you know, it's a cancer in our community. It's something
that you know, it's an issue, right that we have
to deal with and that we that is in our
community like it is in many other communities. Is that
something that you knew I've heard, We've heard from several
people we interviewed, Uh, the Danny's, the Puppets, Yeah, and
uh and you know they were talking to us, as
(13:02):
was Antonette Levine and some other folks about you know,
it's just like from day one, Edward James almost was
like on a mission. And it wasn't just to make
a great movie. It was absolutely it was to spread
a message, absolutely, And was that evident to you? It
was certainly evident when I walked out of that screening.
When I first saw it, I think I was just
(13:25):
in shock. I was just so moved, and so I
thought it was such a powerful film. I think it's
he did what he wanted to do. I mean, we're
seducted by the glamour. But at the same time, uh,
you know, the consequences are evident, and and I think
(13:47):
it spoke to to our community strongly and directly, because
in some ways, you know, people people might say, well,
here we go again. You're just exploiting you know, our
our people, and here we are again portraying gang bangers
on the screen, even though the intention was precisely, seemingly
(14:10):
the opposite, not to glorify, correct. I think, you know, uh,
I mean look at The Godfather. I mean The Godfather.
It's a movie that you could say, yeah, it paints
Italians in a bad light, but but it's really about
a family, right. It's about immigrants, about a family and
who who uh, And it also does not shy away
(14:32):
from the consequences of of living that life. The Godfather
is a good comp for American me in more ways
than one. Some Italian Americans were upset being portrayed as gangsters,
As sal points out, American me in fact, has a
few Godfather references in it. There's a scene where an
Italian guy in a hat his gardening, just like Veto
and his tomatoes. There's a scene where Santana learns to
(14:54):
drive that's basically the opposite of the scene where Michael
shows Apollonia how to drive. Shure, you never didn't be okay,
why did it do that? It does that because you
got it, like let the clutch out and and push
the gas in at the same time. And by all accounts,
(15:16):
members of the Italian Mafia were also not happy with
the way they were portrayed in the film. Crime Boss
Joe Colombo, through his political front, the Italian American League,
very publicly opposed the film until they reached a compromise
with producers to have the word mafia removed from the
movie altogether. The League succeeded in eliminating the words mafia
and cosin Nostra from the film, being made from the
(15:36):
best selling novel The Godfather. Joe Colombo was a famous
fellow who walked into Charlie Bluedoins office and says, we
don't wanna shadow mafia mentioned all, and Charlie good Art
as well, Boy, whatever do you want, you know, I'm
(15:57):
glad to prove it up. But unlike The Godfather, Edward
James Almost decided to base his film on a real
gang and recognizable figures, even with their names changed, something
several people warned Almost was a bad idea. The cor
Ley Owed family was fictional. M it was not. In fact,
they were so real that Almost had to give his
(16:17):
casting crew and out before asking them to shooting fulsome
prison or gang territory and boil Heights. So I asked
Sal whether he ever felt in danger while making the movie. Well,
I was not in the scenes, and folsome my sure,
I had nothing. I didn't really had to deal with
that aspect of it. But you were in you were
in like Ramona Gardens. Yeah, and the places that I
(16:40):
that that I was involved with, I really didn't uh
interact with the real life you know, cons and all
that kind of thing. Um and uh you know it's
it's I didn't. It was not on my radar. Let
me just put it that way, um. I I I
(17:01):
read the script. In the script for me was what
he wanted to present and that my job was to
do my part. And I didn't feel ah, you know,
intimidated or or anything like that. I mean, I was
focused on doing the work and and uh and and
(17:23):
making a good film. I um, and I think that
you know, uh everything else. I mean, you know, I
don't want to speak about Yeah, yeah, I understand, I understand.
I mean, I get it sounds a professional. He's also
friends with almost and like pretty much everybody else on
(17:45):
this movie. You didn't want to get into the ugly parts.
But I mean you can hear the trepidation and tension
in his answer and probably my response, because sitting in
a room with him, I could tell this was very
uncomfortable territory. It also was part of his experience on
that set, he claims, and I take him at his word.
After the break, I try to shift gears a little bit.
(18:08):
I asked Sal about a bunch of Chicanos from East
l A taking over Leazu, the French riviera, Cerdany's Shoes
Canoe Devonvon Welcome back to More Than a Movie. I'm
Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez. Con Yeah,
(18:30):
what was it like? Like what was it like to
be there? To be there with your fellow It was
pretty magic. Snakes Yeah, it was pretty magical. I mean,
you know, here we are on the other side of
the world, and uh, I remember walking the the you know,
the gauntlet of reporters, of of you know, of paparazzi
going up to the to the day of the screen
(18:54):
and uh it's Danny Evelina, myself and Eddie and Bobby
who was the producer and who had been there before.
I mean he was he was an awardee of the
Palm Dior for for a film several years earlier, a Lambrista.
And so anyway, so we're there and and we start
(19:15):
to I'm assuming, you know, Eddie's Eddie's gonna walk ahead
and you know, and we're gonna walk behind him. But
he didn't do that. He didn't do that. He honored
us all to be arm in arm and walked together.
It was pretty remarkable, you know that he wanted to
(19:37):
share that with us. He I'm still aghast of it,
but it was and it was the most unbelievable feeling.
We were walking through this on this red carpet and
as I said, I mean there's hundreds, literally hundreds of
paparazzi on both sides, and security and everything and it
was an amazing, amazing feeling, and you know, for a
(19:58):
kid from South exactly, and all these people are screaming Eddie, Eddie, Eddie,
you know, Eddie, and the and the sound of the
flashing cameras because there was cameras back then, right, it's
just like an amazing sound when you're hearing so many
going off at this you know, it's just like you know,
(20:20):
and the flashes, and it's just pretty amazing. So we
walked this gauntlet, right, and it felt like a hundred yards,
but I'm sure it wasn't that long. But finally we
get to the stairs right before we go in the theater.
And as we're going up the stairs, they're playing the
music and it's it's a O Yeko mobile from Santana,
and it's just like something out of a movie itself.
(20:44):
You know, that moment was something out of a movie.
And then we turn around, right, we all turn around.
It's almost like slow motion and the music plain you know,
bump bump, bump, bump, bump, bump bump, and it was
just it was magical. It was magical. And do you
remember the reception the film got there? Yeah, I mean
(21:06):
I think you know, uh, I think Eddie should have
won hands down for whatever you know, political political reasons.
I'm sure whatever you know that exists everywhere, but there's
there's no doubt. I mean, look look at the film.
I mean it's it's a it's still holds up, it's
(21:28):
still seen, it's still respected. It's a should have one,
I would say more so, right, Like that's one of
the things about American means that it's become like a cult,
classic staple for Yeah. When I talked to you, like
friends my age and younger here who grew up in
l A, They're like, oh, yeah, they know every character,
they have every scene. Yeah, one one or what I
(21:48):
mean to say is he should have won. He should
have won for first time director of course, Yeah, which
was that's what he was nominated for. Anecdote that we
uh heard um from Danny when we were talking to
him about Cohn was it. He recalls that as being
the place where he found out about an Oh that's right, Yeah,
(22:08):
we did get that those the news then, Yeah, how
did that? How did you take that? Well? It was sad,
you know what can it was? It was sad? What
can I tell you? It was alarming. Yeah. Do you
remember how how it came how you came to find
out there? Yeah, we were sitting in the cinema and
(22:30):
they came in and notified us in the movie. Yeah wow. Yeah.
Did you know Anna well from them? No, just just
just from the film. I didn't really know her, no,
h but you know it was Yeah, it was unfortunate. Yeah,
(22:50):
I mean we we touched on it a little bit.
But any part of that reaction going, is it gonna
get Is it gonna get weird for me when I
go back? Um? I mean not really. I didn't. I
was not involved in that world, so I didn't think
my head it would affect me, you know, right, So
you don't, I take it you don't give much credence
(23:14):
the idea that the film had anything to do with her.
I don't know. You don't know, right, I mean, to
be honest, neither do I, which is why you know,
I don't know the other the other the other thing
with this podcast is trying to you know, there was
this whole Danny. There's a lot of Danny's involved in this.
By the way, there was a Danny trejo Um autobiography
(23:38):
and g Q story and It's got on a few
podcasts and sort of told this version of his experience
with American me um and and his kind of claim
that due to his knowledge and association of some of
the people that this was based off of, that up
to people may have been killed in connection with the
(24:02):
making of the film. It's retribution for some sort of participation,
and that Lisaga certainly was like as a consultant on
the film, was that that was part of the result.
So part of what we're trying to do here is
also piece together how much of that is true and
how much of it isn't and whether you can and
I think more importantly the why if it is right? Like,
(24:26):
what is it about this movie that's so powerful for
lack of a better word, that could elicit potentially a
response like that from the people that it was based on. Um,
I just worked with Danny. We just did a moving Oklahoma. Actually,
Oh nice? Um, you know, I don't know. Uh, you
(24:50):
probably would have to ask him. I have no idea
who asked Annie. Yeah. I'm less interested in the who
done it aspect of it, and I'm more interested in
the I had done it. I'll give you an example.
I look at the scenes that depict sexual violence, and
there's obviously You're in a very prominent scene at the
beginning of the movie in the US, right, But then
we have this scene shortly after where Santana's character is
(25:14):
sexually assaulted in juvenile hall. According to Trejo, that was
part of the impetus for why Lama was so upset
that this idea that someone who would become the boss
of a gang can never have become a leader in
one of these gangs. Had that happened to you, Um?
And certainly I've even heard that part of like kind
(25:34):
of the code of the rules of of the maximum mafia,
like homosexuality is like is looked down upon. But even
outside of gang life, I feel like machismo and homophobia
have played a pretty big role in Latino culture as
a whole. How do you feel those elements of sexual
assault should have been taken by the audience as a whole? Um,
(25:59):
knowing that some of the target audience are folks within
this community that have these kind of machis done homophobic
Uh points of view, how is that intended to come across?
Do you think? I think it's the brutality of prison
and the brutality of being in that world. Maybe it's
(26:22):
not based on fact, I don't know, but certainly you
know in film it's not real. You you say it's
based on a true story because you're able to take
uh licenses and create because you want to make a point.
You want to create drama, you want to have an impact,
(26:45):
you want to shock the audience, you want to make
them think. You want, you know, to create a film
that's going to be memorable, scenes that are going to
be shocking and and and memorable, etcetera. So it's done
all the time where you know, you see things, well
you say, well this this did not happen. Yeah, it
(27:08):
may or may not have happened, but it it leaves
you with It serves the purpose, which is too uh
to show you the brutality of the life and how
we as human beings have the capability to uh be sacred,
be sacred individuals who can elevate ourselves to you know, angelic,
(27:34):
to do angelic things, to do kindness beyond you know
what is we can imagine, but we're also capable of
brutality that we can we can't even imagine. Yeah, I
truly love sal Lopez for this answer, the dude is
not only profound, he got to the heart of my question,
which was less about the sensationalized aspect of the story
(27:56):
and more about the human side. And that dichotomy and
contradiction of angelic things and brutality speaks to me of
the humanity of not only the characters involved in the movie.
Have they done harmful things? I don't think they'd even
deny that. But are they monsters? I don't think so.
It's the problem of a movie like American Me that
(28:17):
wants to demonize a lifestyle but also does such a
good job in humanizing the characters it ultimately draws viewers
to them as much or more than it puts them
off the life path. What were the responses that you
personally got from, like the people that you grew up
with about this movie. Well, uh, one of my brothers was,
(28:41):
you know, was a little bit involved in the life
for a little bit of time, and uh, heat to
this stage is loves that movie. Okay, he loves the movie.
You know, I don't think that was the intention the film,
but I mean I mean that I think what he
likes about it is that, uh, it portrays the life
(29:03):
in the aspects of that life that are that are
true and so I think and the takeaways from that
life as well, And I think that says a lot.
It's the stamp of approval for me, and the fact
that you know, there are still so many, as you say,
people who follow the film who are the next generation
(29:25):
is rediscovering this film. It stands the you know, the
test of time. In a way, it's good, but in
a way it's it's unfortunate because it's still relevant and
so uh, I think there's a you know, ambivalence there
(29:46):
for me. On the next episode, I'm speaking to Milton Grimes,
attorney for Mexican Mafia member Joe Morgan, who is the
basis for the character j D in American May. He
had to go into seclusion because there was alleged threat
on his life. A couple of people were killed because
of the production of that movie, depicting Joe Borgan in
(30:08):
a non complementary fashion or saying that certain things happened
to him that they didn't appreciate it appreciate because it
challenged his manhood and his sexual preference. So sexuality or
maybe he was a victim portrayed. That's on the next
episode of More Than a Movie American Mean. More Than
(30:31):
a Movie American Mean is a production of Exile Content
Studios in partnership with I Hearts, Michael da Podcast Network,
and Trojan Horse Media. The show is produced by me
Alex Fometto at Angry Yuka on the internets, and our
senior producer is Nigel dra Our executive producers are Rose Red,
Nando Vila and Kareem Taps. Production assistance from Sabine Jansen
and Altabio and Stella Emmett. Mixing and sound designed by
(30:54):
Water Albornos. Our executive producers at I Heart are Gisel
Bances and Arlene Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. H
We as human beings have the capability to be sacred
individuals who can elevate ourselves to to do angelic things,
to do kindness beyond you know what is we can imagine.
But we're also capable of brutality that we can we
(00:20):
can't even imagine. Welcome to more than a movie American Me,
a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of
American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James
almost that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture.
I'm your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll be diving into
the behind the scenes controversy every episode. I'm gonna try
(00:42):
to peel back a layer of the story by trying
to go deeper into the intentions and motives behind the
film and the backlash thirty years later. On today's episode,
we're talking about actor Sal Lopez, who plays Montoya's father
Pedro in the film. Sal Lopez always fantasized about becoming
an actor, even before he knew what it meant. He'd
(01:02):
eventually go on to star in movies like Full Metal
Jacket and Selena and TV shows like Barry, Queen of
the South, The Shield, An NYPD Blue and for the gamers,
you've heard his voice in Grand Theft, Auto and Red Dead, Redemption.
But amongst Latinos in Hollywood, he's also well known as
a founding member of Latino Theater Company, which developed the
careers of many big screen talents like actress Lupe and
(01:25):
Divedo's of Selena and playwrights Rivera Who This of Motorcycle
Diaries and In The Heights, respectively. It's where our episode
two guests, Raphael Augustine got his first professional experience that
led him to meet and eventually work with Edward James Almost.
It's definitely a big reason Sal Lopez ended up playing
Montoya Santana's father in American Me. That crew of regulars
(01:47):
that the Puppets mentioned in their episode that surrounded Edward
James almost, Sal was one of them. I was raised
here in Los Angeles SS centrally, uh, you know, in
the Florence area, and I never really uh, I mean,
I fantasized about acting. I loved going to the movies,
I mean, I just loved it. He loved going to
(02:08):
the movies, spending like fifty cents on a ticket, a
quarter for five candy bars and basically just dream. He
saw all kinds of movies with his family, especially Spanish
language ones, but he was most inspired by the epics.
And I must have been like eight years old and
we went to go see Jason and the Argonauts. They
had me at the Jason and the Argonauts. Like we've
(02:30):
heard from Jacob Vargas and pretty much everybody else on
this podcast, a career in Hollywood wasn't an obvious choice
for Salopez either, even for a kid who grew up
in l A. His mom was a homemaker and his
father was a shipping clerk at a furniture store, both
immigrants from Mexico and also like Jacob Vargas, Sal's way
into entertainment started with dance, in his case by Lefloudico
(02:51):
or Mexican folk dance. Eventually, some of his dance friends,
including a girl he liked, encouraged him to come audition
for this play that was about Chicano's. Like him, sal
had no idea about acting. I had no idea. You know.
I saw people you're going over their lines in the
in the parking lot, and uh, and I said to
(03:11):
my wife and girlfriend, then a friend friend, I said,
look at that. Look at those guys talking to themselves
in the parking lot, and she says, that's nothing. There's
girls in the bathroom and they're crying. But they were
going over their scenes, you know. But what did I know?
But this play was written in a kind of Chicano
slang that Sal had grown up with. I didn't have
(03:32):
to pretend, you know, I knew what it was, and
so I did it. And the director said, oh, you'll
learn the play was called zoot Suit. I'm guessing you
guys are seeing a pattern here. Edward James almost first
leading role zoot Suit. Danny de la Pass and Daniel
Vierrel both decided to pursue acting because they saw zoot Suit,
probably this very production actually, and now Sal's career as
(03:53):
an actor is starting with zoot Suit. Why does that matter?
Because that play is about the same things as American
means about. Essentially, an American mean doesn't exist without it.
Sal's even in a scene at the beginning of the
movie that takes place during the zoot Suit rights, you
got a problem being on the streets. Where are your colors?
Where are you? Who knows of Edward James almost even
(04:17):
becomes as obsessed with doing Latino themed work if he
hadn't started his career with such an overtly political and
rassa oriented piece like zoot Suit. So anyway, sal continues
doing plays and movies and hanging out in the Chicano
theater scene, becoming something of a fixture. He does this
movie version of zoot Suit, which leads to a bunch
of guest spots on legendary TV shows like Different Strokes, Chips,
(04:39):
Hill Street Blues five. He co founds the Latino Theater Company.
In eight seven, he's casting Full Metal Jacket. So by
the time casting began for American Me sells on everybody's list.
But career wise, things have begun slowing down for him.
I actually auditioned for Taylor Hackford's film First Blood and
Blood out right right, and uh, I audition for for
(05:01):
one of the main roles, and I didn't get it,
and then they offered me a smaller role. And uh,
you know, at the time, actually I really needed the job.
Actually I was, I was, you know, and it had
been a dry spell and I really needed the job,
and but I just didn't. I didn't, you know, I
felt like, wow, you know, they're gonna offered me this
(05:22):
instead of, you know, one of these more substant I
really felt like anyway you're saying, Hollywood at the time
was not just there wasn't an abundance of roles for
Latino actors at the time. That's shocking. Times they're changing.
I think they are, I really do. But uh so, anyway,
(05:44):
you know, as Destiny would have and I did turn
that down, and and then Eddies his screenplay, they had
a table read and they invited me to be part
of that, and uh that was that was how I
got got involved with that. It was it was a
great experience on that the whole casting thing for me
because I was going to play his father, and you know,
(06:05):
I was a young man back then, a very young
and I thought, well, how how are we going to
do this? So they because I feel like Edward James
almost has looked forty five since he was fifteen years
that you're right, You're right in the movie where it's
like him and his little brother, and I'm like, that's
your son, right, like that's you And he's not that
(06:26):
old in the movie. You know, he just has that gravitas.
That's true, true, true, But they brought in an older
actors to play you know, his dad as an older
as an older and they we had the screen tests
and it was really Uh, it was interesting because we
all screen tested at the same time, the older actors
(06:47):
and me as a young man. Then they put some
you know, superficial makeup and uh and after the auditions, Uh,
they said, now we're just gonna have Sell do it
and we're gonna put makeup on him. And that's how
how it ended up happening to me and makes sense
in the movie. Like I never once stopped in the
movie and said, this is weird. The guys too young
to because the point is he's not born yet, right,
(07:10):
and that's a critical kind of like twist. Oh yeah,
in the beginning of the beginning of the movie. Right. Um,
so there's like, uh, you're you know, you fit that.
I feel like it's easier to age you up than
have someone Look, it wasn't that easy, No, it wasn't.
What did you have to do? Well? First, so how
(07:31):
old were you? Oh gosh, I must have been in
my early early thirties, I think when I did it. Yeah,
and uh, they well, Kindias who's an you know, Oscar
nominated makeup artist. He was he was the head makeup guy,
and uh, we did the first time we put on
the makeup, it took fifteen hours in the chair. In
(07:52):
the chair, yeah, fifteen hours. They did a whole cast
of my head and my face and the whole thing.
So any way, the first time they applied it, because
you know, all the press prosthetics, it it took a
long long time. I mean, it always takes time, you know,
but this was I can't believe they used the prosthetics.
That's like so involved. Well they had to because you know,
(08:13):
I really needed to age. And what happened was because
they put on so much makeup the first time, we
couldn't do close ups on me. It was just the
prosthetics just looked too artificial. And then we had to
um taper it down and make it look more natural,
and we finally got it right after a few times
and it was less time, you know. But the table
(08:36):
read was really great because most of the actors that
were in the film were in the table read, and
Eddie was was really passionate about the project, and it
was I just, you know, I just admire him so
much because he had a vision and he was able
to just create that vision that he wanted and really
(08:56):
take the reins and be a leader and take this on.
You know, it was it was pretty major. He never
directed before, not that I know of, no, no, but yeah,
and he was great. He was great as as because
you know, he was an actor, so so it was
I remember his favorite phrase was just throw it away,
(09:16):
Just throw it away. I mean it was very it
isn't an exceptionally naturally acted film. There's just I mean,
you know, like some of the I was almost like
our art did he just find real people? You know
at certain times, but then when you look at the credits,
you're like, no, these are actors who are just they're
just killing it. You know. There were a few young
who were not, but you know they were right. They
(09:39):
were right for the parts. So it worked. Do you
remember your first day on on set? I do remember, No, No,
I do remember the first day on set. That was
the first day on set. Was the fifteen hour thing,
right right right, that was and it took all day
and then we shot that night and it's the first
time that Eddie sees his dad once he's out of
the joint, you know, And that was the first thing
(10:02):
we shot. The scene Cells talking about is one where
Santana SE's is a strange father pedro outside of a
wedding party on the street. There's a lot of weighted silences.
Then Santana asks mL sant got home a couple of
hours ago. I don't know if it bothers you. Almost
day coming up, we'll hear more about sales experiences on
(10:25):
set with Edward James almost and his reaction when he
heard about the murders. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
I'm Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez.
Sal's about to tell us what it was like to
just be a regular kid from l A who's suddenly
acting in movies. But they tell you. One of the
things that was really cool that happened to me was
(10:47):
that was on the you know, Universal Lot, and I'm
walking on you know, the Universal Lot, and of course
I had been there, you know, for the Universal Studios tour,
and suddenly this one of the tour busses come by,
you know, to or whatever, and it's full of tourists
and I'm like, wow, I'm in the lot and look
at these people. And then somebody in the tour bus
goes hey, sal like hey, and it was someone I
(11:13):
knew they were on the tour. You know, I love it.
I was so cool. It was like, what are you
doing here? I said, I'm doing a movie here, So yeah,
that was amazing. It's something that doesn't really happen to
a lot of actors in Hollywood, being recognized not because
you're famous or somebody saw you on TV, but because
you're just a dude for the neighborhood. We forget sometimes
(11:33):
that l A is an industry town. What Pittsburgh was
for steel, or Miami was for well cocaine, Los Angeles
is for entertainment. The only difference is that regular working
class people from those cities get jobs working for the
town mill or at a bank laundering money for Pablo Escobar,
as the case may be. But in l A, if
you're a regular working class Latino kid, you're not just
(11:54):
knocking on the doors of Universal Studio asking for a gig.
That creates this really unique situation where the actors involved
in American Men have a lived experience of life on
the streets of l A, including gangs that you wouldn't
get with many other kinds of movies. Here's sal again. Absolutely.
I mean I grew up in south central l A.
So I was. I mean, it's that was nothing foreign
(12:16):
to me. It was it was something that I that
I saw that I can't say I was in a
gang personally, but people very close to me were. And uh,
so I knew that life. And you know it's complicated,
right because these things go back many, many years, and
it's a culture. So I mean it's also something that's
(12:41):
you know, it's a cancer in our community. It's something
that you know, it's an issue, right that we have
to deal with and that we that is in our
community like it is in many other communities. Is that
something that you knew I've heard, We've heard from several
people we interviewed, Uh, the Danny's, the Puppets, Yeah, and
uh and you know they were talking to us, as
(13:02):
was Antonette Levine and some other folks about you know,
it's just like from day one, Edward James almost was
like on a mission. And it wasn't just to make
a great movie. It was absolutely it was to spread
a message, absolutely, And was that evident to you? It
was certainly evident when I walked out of that screening.
When I first saw it, I think I was just
(13:25):
in shock. I was just so moved, and so I
thought it was such a powerful film. I think it's
he did what he wanted to do. I mean, we're
seducted by the glamour. But at the same time, uh,
you know, the consequences are evident, and and I think
(13:47):
it spoke to to our community strongly and directly, because
in some ways, you know, people people might say, well,
here we go again. You're just exploiting you know, our
our people, and here we are again portraying gang bangers
on the screen, even though the intention was precisely, seemingly
(14:10):
the opposite, not to glorify, correct. I think, you know, uh,
I mean look at The Godfather. I mean The Godfather.
It's a movie that you could say, yeah, it paints
Italians in a bad light, but but it's really about
a family, right. It's about immigrants, about a family and
who who uh, And it also does not shy away
(14:32):
from the consequences of of living that life. The Godfather
is a good comp for American me in more ways
than one. Some Italian Americans were upset being portrayed as gangsters,
As sal points out, American me in fact, has a
few Godfather references in it. There's a scene where an
Italian guy in a hat his gardening, just like Veto
and his tomatoes. There's a scene where Santana learns to
(14:54):
drive that's basically the opposite of the scene where Michael
shows Apollonia how to drive. Shure, you never didn't be okay,
why did it do that? It does that because you
got it, like let the clutch out and and push
the gas in at the same time. And by all accounts,
(15:16):
members of the Italian Mafia were also not happy with
the way they were portrayed in the film. Crime Boss
Joe Colombo, through his political front, the Italian American League,
very publicly opposed the film until they reached a compromise
with producers to have the word mafia removed from the
movie altogether. The League succeeded in eliminating the words mafia
and cosin Nostra from the film, being made from the
(15:36):
best selling novel The Godfather. Joe Colombo was a famous
fellow who walked into Charlie Bluedoins office and says, we
don't wanna shadow mafia mentioned all, and Charlie good Art
as well, Boy, whatever do you want, you know, I'm
(15:57):
glad to prove it up. But unlike The Godfather, Edward
James Almost decided to base his film on a real
gang and recognizable figures, even with their names changed, something
several people warned Almost was a bad idea. The cor
Ley Owed family was fictional. M it was not. In fact,
they were so real that Almost had to give his
(16:17):
casting crew and out before asking them to shooting fulsome
prison or gang territory and boil Heights. So I asked
Sal whether he ever felt in danger while making the movie. Well,
I was not in the scenes, and folsome my sure,
I had nothing. I didn't really had to deal with
that aspect of it. But you were in you were
in like Ramona Gardens. Yeah, and the places that I
(16:40):
that that I was involved with, I really didn't uh
interact with the real life you know, cons and all
that kind of thing. Um and uh you know it's
it's I didn't. It was not on my radar. Let
me just put it that way, um. I I I
(17:01):
read the script. In the script for me was what
he wanted to present and that my job was to
do my part. And I didn't feel ah, you know,
intimidated or or anything like that. I mean, I was
focused on doing the work and and uh and and
(17:23):
making a good film. I um, and I think that
you know, uh everything else. I mean, you know, I
don't want to speak about Yeah, yeah, I understand, I understand.
I mean, I get it sounds a professional. He's also
friends with almost and like pretty much everybody else on
(17:45):
this movie. You didn't want to get into the ugly parts.
But I mean you can hear the trepidation and tension
in his answer and probably my response, because sitting in
a room with him, I could tell this was very
uncomfortable territory. It also was part of his experience on
that set, he claims, and I take him at his word.
After the break, I try to shift gears a little bit.
(18:08):
I asked Sal about a bunch of Chicanos from East
l A taking over Leazu, the French riviera, Cerdany's Shoes
Canoe Devonvon Welcome back to More Than a Movie. I'm
Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez. Con Yeah,
(18:30):
what was it like? Like what was it like to
be there? To be there with your fellow It was
pretty magic. Snakes Yeah, it was pretty magical. I mean,
you know, here we are on the other side of
the world, and uh, I remember walking the the you know,
the gauntlet of reporters, of of you know, of paparazzi
going up to the to the day of the screen
(18:54):
and uh it's Danny Evelina, myself and Eddie and Bobby
who was the producer and who had been there before.
I mean he was he was an awardee of the
Palm Dior for for a film several years earlier, a Lambrista.
And so anyway, so we're there and and we start
(19:15):
to I'm assuming, you know, Eddie's Eddie's gonna walk ahead
and you know, and we're gonna walk behind him. But
he didn't do that. He didn't do that. He honored
us all to be arm in arm and walked together.
It was pretty remarkable, you know that he wanted to
(19:37):
share that with us. He I'm still aghast of it,
but it was and it was the most unbelievable feeling.
We were walking through this on this red carpet and
as I said, I mean there's hundreds, literally hundreds of
paparazzi on both sides, and security and everything and it
was an amazing, amazing feeling, and you know, for a
(19:58):
kid from South exactly, and all these people are screaming Eddie, Eddie, Eddie,
you know, Eddie, and the and the sound of the
flashing cameras because there was cameras back then, right, it's
just like an amazing sound when you're hearing so many
going off at this you know, it's just like you know,
(20:20):
and the flashes, and it's just pretty amazing. So we
walked this gauntlet, right, and it felt like a hundred yards,
but I'm sure it wasn't that long. But finally we
get to the stairs right before we go in the theater.
And as we're going up the stairs, they're playing the
music and it's it's a O Yeko mobile from Santana,
and it's just like something out of a movie itself.
(20:44):
You know, that moment was something out of a movie.
And then we turn around, right, we all turn around.
It's almost like slow motion and the music plain you know,
bump bump, bump, bump, bump, bump bump, and it was
just it was magical. It was magical. And do you
remember the reception the film got there? Yeah, I mean
(21:06):
I think you know, uh, I think Eddie should have
won hands down for whatever you know, political political reasons.
I'm sure whatever you know that exists everywhere, but there's
there's no doubt. I mean, look look at the film.
I mean it's it's a it's still holds up, it's
(21:28):
still seen, it's still respected. It's a should have one,
I would say more so, right, Like that's one of
the things about American means that it's become like a cult,
classic staple for Yeah. When I talked to you, like
friends my age and younger here who grew up in
l A, They're like, oh, yeah, they know every character,
they have every scene. Yeah, one one or what I
(21:48):
mean to say is he should have won. He should
have won for first time director of course, Yeah, which
was that's what he was nominated for. Anecdote that we
uh heard um from Danny when we were talking to
him about Cohn was it. He recalls that as being
the place where he found out about an Oh that's right, Yeah,
(22:08):
we did get that those the news then, Yeah, how
did that? How did you take that? Well? It was sad,
you know what can it was? It was sad? What
can I tell you? It was alarming. Yeah. Do you
remember how how it came how you came to find
out there? Yeah, we were sitting in the cinema and
(22:30):
they came in and notified us in the movie. Yeah wow. Yeah.
Did you know Anna well from them? No, just just
just from the film. I didn't really know her, no,
h but you know it was Yeah, it was unfortunate. Yeah,
(22:50):
I mean we we touched on it a little bit.
But any part of that reaction going, is it gonna
get Is it gonna get weird for me when I
go back? Um? I mean not really. I didn't. I
was not involved in that world, so I didn't think
my head it would affect me, you know, right, So
you don't, I take it you don't give much credence
(23:14):
the idea that the film had anything to do with her.
I don't know. You don't know, right, I mean, to
be honest, neither do I, which is why you know,
I don't know the other the other the other thing
with this podcast is trying to you know, there was
this whole Danny. There's a lot of Danny's involved in this.
By the way, there was a Danny trejo Um autobiography
(23:38):
and g Q story and It's got on a few
podcasts and sort of told this version of his experience
with American me um and and his kind of claim
that due to his knowledge and association of some of
the people that this was based off of, that up
to people may have been killed in connection with the
(24:02):
making of the film. It's retribution for some sort of participation,
and that Lisaga certainly was like as a consultant on
the film, was that that was part of the result.
So part of what we're trying to do here is
also piece together how much of that is true and
how much of it isn't and whether you can and
I think more importantly the why if it is right? Like,
(24:26):
what is it about this movie that's so powerful for
lack of a better word, that could elicit potentially a
response like that from the people that it was based on. Um,
I just worked with Danny. We just did a moving Oklahoma. Actually,
Oh nice? Um, you know, I don't know. Uh, you
(24:50):
probably would have to ask him. I have no idea
who asked Annie. Yeah. I'm less interested in the who
done it aspect of it, and I'm more interested in
the I had done it. I'll give you an example.
I look at the scenes that depict sexual violence, and
there's obviously You're in a very prominent scene at the
beginning of the movie in the US, right, But then
we have this scene shortly after where Santana's character is
(25:14):
sexually assaulted in juvenile hall. According to Trejo, that was
part of the impetus for why Lama was so upset
that this idea that someone who would become the boss
of a gang can never have become a leader in
one of these gangs. Had that happened to you, Um?
And certainly I've even heard that part of like kind
(25:34):
of the code of the rules of of the maximum mafia,
like homosexuality is like is looked down upon. But even
outside of gang life, I feel like machismo and homophobia
have played a pretty big role in Latino culture as
a whole. How do you feel those elements of sexual
assault should have been taken by the audience as a whole? Um,
(25:59):
knowing that some of the target audience are folks within
this community that have these kind of machis done homophobic
Uh points of view, how is that intended to come across?
Do you think? I think it's the brutality of prison
and the brutality of being in that world. Maybe it's
(26:22):
not based on fact, I don't know, but certainly you
know in film it's not real. You you say it's
based on a true story because you're able to take
uh licenses and create because you want to make a point.
You want to create drama, you want to have an impact,
(26:45):
you want to shock the audience, you want to make
them think. You want, you know, to create a film
that's going to be memorable, scenes that are going to
be shocking and and and memorable, etcetera. So it's done
all the time where you know, you see things, well
you say, well this this did not happen. Yeah, it
(27:08):
may or may not have happened, but it it leaves
you with It serves the purpose, which is too uh
to show you the brutality of the life and how
we as human beings have the capability to uh be sacred,
be sacred individuals who can elevate ourselves to you know, angelic,
(27:34):
to do angelic things, to do kindness beyond you know
what is we can imagine, but we're also capable of
brutality that we can we can't even imagine. Yeah, I
truly love sal Lopez for this answer, the dude is
not only profound, he got to the heart of my question,
which was less about the sensationalized aspect of the story
(27:56):
and more about the human side. And that dichotomy and
contradiction of angelic things and brutality speaks to me of
the humanity of not only the characters involved in the movie.
Have they done harmful things? I don't think they'd even
deny that. But are they monsters? I don't think so.
It's the problem of a movie like American Me that
(28:17):
wants to demonize a lifestyle but also does such a
good job in humanizing the characters it ultimately draws viewers
to them as much or more than it puts them
off the life path. What were the responses that you
personally got from, like the people that you grew up
with about this movie. Well, uh, one of my brothers was,
(28:41):
you know, was a little bit involved in the life
for a little bit of time, and uh, heat to
this stage is loves that movie. Okay, he loves the movie.
You know, I don't think that was the intention the film,
but I mean I mean that I think what he
likes about it is that, uh, it portrays the life
(29:03):
in the aspects of that life that are that are
true and so I think and the takeaways from that
life as well, And I think that says a lot.
It's the stamp of approval for me, and the fact
that you know, there are still so many, as you say,
people who follow the film who are the next generation
(29:25):
is rediscovering this film. It stands the you know, the
test of time. In a way, it's good, but in
a way it's it's unfortunate because it's still relevant and
so uh, I think there's a you know, ambivalence there
(29:46):
for me. On the next episode, I'm speaking to Milton Grimes,
attorney for Mexican Mafia member Joe Morgan, who is the
basis for the character j D in American May. He
had to go into seclusion because there was alleged threat
on his life. A couple of people were killed because
of the production of that movie, depicting Joe Borgan in
(30:08):
a non complementary fashion or saying that certain things happened
to him that they didn't appreciate it appreciate because it
challenged his manhood and his sexual preference. So sexuality or
maybe he was a victim portrayed. That's on the next
episode of More Than a Movie American Mean. More Than
(30:31):
a Movie American Mean is a production of Exile Content
Studios in partnership with I Hearts, Michael da Podcast Network,
and Trojan Horse Media. The show is produced by me
Alex Fometto at Angry Yuka on the internets, and our
senior producer is Nigel dra Our executive producers are Rose Red,
Nando Vila and Kareem Taps. Production assistance from Sabine Jansen
and Altabio and Stella Emmett. Mixing and sound designed by
(30:54):
Water Albornos. Our executive producers at I Heart are Gisel
Bances and Arlene Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. H
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