February 15, 2023 • 45 mins
In More Than A Movie, host Alex Fumero dissects a cultural phenomenon and looks at its impact on different communities. EXILE Content Studio’s latest podcast Shoot the Messenger: Espionage, Murder, & Pegasus Software (subscribe here) is a deep dive into one of the hottest phenomenons today - cybersecurity and spyware. We all use our phones daily, as almost an extension of ourselves - but what happens when our phones are no longer safe?
Jamal Khashoggi’s life, assassination, and betrayal opened up a timeline for a new digital battle: cyber-surveillance weapons.
In 2018, Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi entered the Saudi consulate in Turkey and was never seen again. Weeks later, the Turkish intelligence released secret tapes of Khashoggi’s last moments before being brutally murdered, causing an international uproar. It has been four years since Khashoggi’s murder, and what we now know is that the first weapon used against Khashoggi was digital and it’s called Pegasus - a kind of software that can be used to hijack your phone; a military-grade, spyware software.
A new biweekly serialized podcast, every season Exile Content Studio investigates one international new story. You may have heard the headlines — this is the deep dive. The first season examines the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, and his inner circle that has had the world’s most sophisticated military-grade spyware confirmed on their phones. It’s called Pegasus. How did this spyware come to be, how does it work, and how vulnerable are you?
Shoot the Messenger is hosted by Rose Reid and Nando Vila and is a production of Exile Content Studio.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, they're more than the movie listeners. I'm Nando Vila.
We're taking over the feed to share a pretty wild
story with you. It's called Shoot the Messenger, Espionage, murder
and Pegasus Spyware. I've been working on this project for
over two years. Shoot the Messenger is a new bi
weekly serialized podcast from Exile Content. Season one is all
(00:23):
about Pegasus spyware. Pegasus is the world's most sophisticated spyware
to date. It can give full access to your phone.
That means everything, your texts, emails, phone calls, camera, microphone everything.
How did this spyware come to be? We'll investigate how
it works, who makes it, and the industry booming around it.
(00:47):
An episode one, which you're about to hear, will start
with the murder of journalist Jamal Kashogi and uncover how
Pegasus was found on the phones of many in his
inner circle. Here is Shoot the Messenger. Dubai is known
for luxury, high end shopping and a bump in nightlife.
(01:11):
The heat and the United Arab Emirates can be oppressive,
but in springtime Dubai can be pleasant. You can expect
sunshine with clear skies, balmy but not too hot. It
was a night like this on ap when Hanan, a latter,
(01:33):
landed in her hometown of Dubai. After twenty two years
as a flight attendant with Emirates Airlines, the routine had
long turned to muscle memory. On this Saturday night, Hanan
had just finished a long flight from Toronto. Her shift
was over and she was tired and ready to go home.
(01:53):
Hanan would have been wearing the standard Amarani uniform, a
fitted cream colored blazer with red piping with signature red
pill box hat. And this is where I like to
imagine Hanan and red pumps clacking along in the manner
which is distinctive to crew and pilots no matter how
often you fly, pulling a black roll away behind her,
always black, and maybe she had one of those squarish
(02:16):
topebags trapped on top of her roll away. Hannan had
deboarded a plane, exited the gate area, and walked through
immigration at Dubai's International Airport thousands of times, but this
time something was different. And this immigration people they know
(02:37):
me by name. He normally took my passport to speak
to me about my flight, but in this case, he
said Hannan within the side. The system is down and
I feel there is something wrong. Hannan rushed into a
nearby bathroom and locked herself in a stall. She called
the person she always called once she landed at home,
(02:58):
her sister, and I told you, my sister, there's somethingle
and go on. Hanan had a terrible feeling that the
Emiadi men hanging around immigration had something to do with
her fiance. Her fiance was a journalist known for speaking
out on human rights, and in the UAE, loudly defending
human rights could get you detained or even jailed. Hanan's
(03:23):
fiance had already told her he worried about the way
his work would impact her life. He gave me the
engagement drink, and when he put the rink in my hand,
he said, Hannan and his kids, I might be a
curse in new life. I might create a problem for you.
Hanan wasn't involved in politics, She hadn't had any run
(03:45):
ins with the police. But sitting in that bathroom stall
in the Dubai airport, her fiance's words echoed in her head.
I remember this wound. I was very scared. She gathered
herself and left the stall. When Hanan walked out of
the bathroom, She was quickly flanked by Emirati intelligence officers.
(04:08):
One of the member woke with us quietly and the
behavior shift. I realized you just have to comply with Jim.
Hanan was unhandcuffed, blindfolded, put in a car, and taken
to an interrogation cell. I cannot experts to you. What
(04:28):
is my feeling is this time the band in my
stomach from the bannock. The intelligence officers demanded she hand
over all of her devices, a laptop and two Android phones,
and that to share her passwords. She was taken to
a remote location where she was questioned overnight and into
the morning. Seventeen hours later, the intelligence officers returned Hanan's
(04:53):
devices and took her home. Hanan wanted to resume the
life she had built for herself, leading a cabin crew
across trans atlantic flights, traveling and visiting family. She looked
forward to her wedding ceremony in Washington, d C. Just
a couple of months away. But after she was detained,
everything changed. It turns out that while Hanan was being questioned,
(05:18):
the Emirati intelligence officers were executing a much more effective
plan to get information from her. I never had my
normal life back. That's because when Amiradi intelligence officers had
Hanan's phone, they installed a highly sophisticated piece of spywear,
and as Hanan went about her life, the spy where
(05:39):
had unknowingly turned her into an informant, providing a direct
window to the person she cared about. Most fears are
growing over the fate of missing Saudi journalist Jamaka, who
vanished after entering this Saudi Arabian consulate in Restrountable details
(06:01):
are pouring in about the likely death of this Washington
Post columnist because and they are just simply horrifying. Jamal
Kashogi Hannan's newly what husband, the Saudi journalist who had
been living in Washington, d C. In South exile writing
op eds for the Washington Post, was assassinated just months
after her detention. We never thought me, uncle Johnal. They
(06:26):
will be extremists to their level to kill him, and
this terrible way. When Kashoki disappeared from the Saudi consulate
in it would be weeks before the world learned what
occurred in his final hours. But it's taken years for
us to learn he wasn't just killed. He was systematically
(06:46):
hunted in a way we have never seen before. And
what we now know is that the first weapon used
against Kashogi was digital and it's called Pegasus. Pegasus is
probably the most advanced piece of spy where it is
effectively the most invasive form of surveillance imaginable licenses this
software to intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Worldwidime tool can
(07:10):
also be deployed by a government to crush descent. Pecasus
is a kind of software that can be used to
hijack your phone. It's a military grade spying software. It's
this magic thing. It can infect your phone, and once
it does, it's inside of your phone and it's like
a little worm and it can burrow into every piece
(07:33):
of equipment in your phone. This is Dana Priest. She
covers national security for the Washington Post, the same newspaper
as Jamal Kashogi. It can turn the microphone on, it
can turn the camera on. It can go into all
of your photos, all of your emails, even your deleted messages,
(07:54):
and scoop them up and take them somewhere seven and
you'll never know it. You'll never know it. Pegasus implicates
several countries and multiple government agencies and unites unlikely allies.
It's part of a massive and mostly unregulated, multibillion dollar
global industry. Battlefields aren't physical anymore. They aren't far away
(08:19):
across oceans or borders. They're in our pocket. And the
threats that journalists face as they seek out and reveal
uncomfortable truths are threats that we are all vulnerable to,
no matter where we live, who we know, and what
we do. Jamaica Showgi's assassination reveals that journalists are the
(08:39):
canaries in the coal mine these days. You don't have
to be a high profile journalists, or a dissident or
a famous truth teller to get swept up. If you've
ever had a phone, if you've ever had a secret,
you're at risk too. I'm Nando Vila and I'm Rose
Reed and this is Shoot the Messenger, a new investigative
(09:03):
reporting podcast from Exile Content Studio. Every season, we investigate
one international news story you may have heard the headlines.
This is the deep dive. Nando and I started the
series with one question, what is the biggest threat to
journalists today? We put up a bulletin board and stuck
a pen for every journalist who was threatened or assassinated,
(09:26):
or if they had a family member who was threatened
or assassinated directly because of their work in the last
five years. And we found one link that kept coming
up again and again, from Mexico to d C to
the United Arab Emirates Pegasus. How did this spyware come
to be? How does it work? And how vulnerable are you?
(09:49):
Over the course of ten episodes, we're doing a special
partnership with the Committee to Protect Journalists on espionage, murder
and Pegasus spyware put in the hell could have happened
in there? Which he's together what happened? Almost like who
done it? Given one instance of an attack, can we
trace that to other instances in other countries as well?
(10:11):
Regarding the spying and the bagattis, we did not know.
They did drag him through me because they know the
closest to hunt to him. They started with me. Episode
one Jamaica Shogi a story told in three parts his life,
(10:32):
death and betrayal. Jamal was a great man as a
journalist and as a husband. Hanana latter first met Jamalka
Shogi at a conference in two thousand and nine. Jamal
is a kind of person we can say is not
in the right or left. He's in the middle in
(10:54):
his opinion and his vision because he's very open minded.
Any bad ground can sit down with Jamal any race
any i do Luji and do you have a different
view from him? But you will walk away with a smile.
Nana Kashoki captain touch and they are friends for almost
a decade before their romance began. I met Jamal first
(11:16):
time with was a nine in Dubai where I grown up,
and I remember very well. We had a conversation over
two hours. He was talking about the Middle East politics
and form policy of US toward the Middle East, and
we realize we are like a twin and we continue.
(11:39):
And I always used to give him a feedback in
any article in the published opinion. I used to give
him a feedback and he was always waiting for me,
calling me up, discussing with me. Kasoki spent most of
his career as a writer and editor for Amadina, one
of the oldest and biggest newspapers in Saudi Arabia. Kashoki
(11:59):
had grown up among a social elite and considered himself
a moderate, but over time he developed a reputation in
the Middle East for speaking truth to power. Speaking out
cost him several jobs. He was fired from Almadina for
publishing pieces that were critical of the Saudi regime, supporting
women's rights to drive, or blowing the whistle on corruption
(12:20):
among the religious police. Kaushoki then worked for Saudi ambassadors
and diplomats, living between Washington, d C. And Saudi Arabia.
This way he was able to maintain his elite social
status in the kingdom and then in the Arab spring
erupted across the Middle East. It's the first Arab revolution
(12:44):
or it wills that people were fearless, but that they
were joyous deposed. Egypt eighteen Day Revolution defies all expectations.
Protesters across Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Bahrain used social
media to nice the masses and take to the streets.
In turn, many leaders in the region began to heavily
(13:05):
surveil social media in order to curtail public discourse and dissent.
A new industry developed to keep up with government's demand
to surveil. The press was a major target. The Committee
to Protect Journalists has reported that at the end of
more than three hundred and sixty journalists, which is increase
(13:25):
over around the world, are currently imprisoned, either charged with
crimes against the state like treason, or their paper of
record charged with libel, or even a personal matter exposed
if illegal in their country, like committing adultery. Journalism such
a critical component at the outset of the Arab Spring
(13:47):
has become one of its long term casual. For the
very first time, a lot of the main television channels
in Egypt are directly owned by the Egyptian military. This
is new. You only need to target a handful of
journalists before the rest of them are in line. Enjoying
the episode, make sure to subscribe to Shoot the Messenger Espionage,
(14:10):
Murder and Pegasus spyware. You can find exiles Shoot the
Messenger anywhere you get your podcasts. Okay, let's get back
to the episode. Following the Arab Spring in two thousand eleven,
authorities across North Africa and the Middle East increased online
censorship and took over broadcast networks and media companies. Revolution
(14:32):
did not come to Saudi Arabia, but in Saudi Arabia
got a new leader, now a thirty one, an astonishing
rights to power appears complete. They call him MBS. He's young,
popular and promising more change than these country's ever seen.
The Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, commonly referred to as MBS,
(14:55):
initially spoke of reforms. He allowed women to drive and
attend sporting events. But while MBS endorsed some social reform,
he crushed any type of political reform or opposition. Here's
a clip of Jamal ka Shogi commenting on the new leadership,
taken from an interview he did with Global News. I
(15:16):
have fixed treelings about that. I'm very much supportive for
his reform for reform, but in the same time I
immediately say he doesn't need to disintimidation. Mohammed bin Samon
took the new social media playbook to a new level
in Saudi Arabia. He worked closely with authorities to watch,
(15:37):
target and silence any opposition, either discrediting opponents and complex
media campaigns or arresting them and sometimes their family members
as well. Kahoki's friends advised him to be careful. It
was sad to me, but it is not that I
time to shave MBS and his media is our singled
(16:01):
out independent journalists after Koshogi openly questioned the Saudi regime
support for the newly elected American President Donald Trump on Twitter.
Authorities told Koshogi to stay offline in two thousand sixteen
because he said a negative opinion about electing President Donald Trump.
The Saudi authority did most like he speaking frankly and
(16:23):
ask him to sit down at home, not to write anything.
Most to a bear almost under house arrested in the
summer of two thousand seventeen, Jama Kashogi decided it was
time to leave his home country of Saudi Arabia. Whatever
ner space I had was getting nerwer, So I just
(16:45):
decided to leave before I just do it. Sixty years
old and they want to enjoy life and they want
to be three to speak for my country. Kashoki continued
his reporting, but he never considered himself a dissident. Jammal
did not leave to criticize, only just for a sick
of criticize. Jam l was of domestic about future of
(17:08):
his country. He loved his country, but he loved to
be identified as in Saogia and Arabs. Kashoki went to
d C and began writing Our Beds for the Washington Post.
Kashogi put more than six thousand miles between himself and
the Crown Prince and thought he would start a new chapter,
one where he could be free to speak his mind.
(17:32):
Hanan allowed her remembers the day Kaushoki arrived in the
United States. I was in London in this day operating
my flights. Immediately I called to him to chicken him.
I was so happy, and I did tell him something
and I believe in it. I said, make use of
your freedom. Speak up, And Kashoki did speak up. He
(17:56):
used his new platform in the United States to comment
on his home country and Middle Eastern politics, and his
first columns for The Washington Post, Kashogi wrote, quote Saudi
Arabia's Crown Prince is acting like Putin, and quote Saudi
Arabia wasn't always this repressive. Now it's unbearable. As Jamaka
(18:17):
Shogi worked in exile, his fan base grew to over
a million followers on Twitter. Saudi has an extremely active
Twitter base. There's data showing that more than seventy of
Saudis are Twitter users. Even in ocean away from Saudi
Arabia Jamaica, Shogi still knew he had to be cautious.
He avoided going to Saudi embassies and would tell his
(18:39):
fellow exiled friends to avoid them too, But he wasn't scared.
As Hanan would describe, he was trying to be carefully,
but he wasn't scared for his life. He never come
back home and the books that change fifty chin in
the door I used to do before we go to sleep.
Kashoki got comfortable with his new life in exile, but
(19:01):
he was homesick. He wanted to build a more permanent
home and turned to Istanbul, Turkey, a mix between east
and West, closer to his home country, but what Kashoki
considered a safe enough distance. We agree. You have to
buy a fleft in the stumble, to get a passport
and to get a shelter from the Turkish authority. Moving
a Turkey this is where things got a little more complicated. Well,
(19:27):
Jamal's personal life was more complex than we knew before
he died. He had two relationships. One was a longer
relationship and he was married and that was Hanan. And
the second relationship that we knew more about was his
(19:49):
recent fiance Hatija in Turkey, so the two women did
not know each other. During a trip to Istanbul, a
friend entered Koshogi to a Turkish scholar, Hatija Sindas. Around
the same time Kashoki married Hanan in a religious Muslim
ceremony in Washington, d C. He began dating Hatija and
(20:12):
Istanbul and Hanan didn't know about Hadija and Atisha didn't
know about Hanan, and most people, honestly, even his good friends,
did not know about Hanan. We're not here to focus
on Kashogi's romantic endeavors. He's not here to explain himself
to us or to the women in his life. But
(20:34):
it's important to know because to understand how Koshoki died,
we need to unpack the logistical details around the engagement
to Turkish scholar Hatija Sindas because to get legally married
in Turkey, Kashogi needed paperwork, and to get that paperwork,
Kashoki had to go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
(21:05):
On Friday, septem eighteen, Jamal Ko Shogi didn't make an
appointment to visit the Saudi consulate. He just walked in
and to kashogi surprise, he was greeted warmly. After years
of experiencing harassment and intimidation from the government, which had
ultimately forced him to live in exile. Kaushogi found himself
(21:27):
being offered tea by the Saudi officials in Istanbul. They
told him to come back Tuesday, October two to get
the final paperwork. In the last five days, Kashogi was alive.
He lived like a freeman. He traveled to London for
a conference, made plans for the future. He was emailing
his editors at the Washington Post, bloodsapping with friends across
the world, texting with Hanan, and arranging logistics with Hatch.
(21:51):
Back in Istanbul. The morning of Tuesday October two, two eighteen,
Kashogi met Hatija at an empty apart mint in his
tample one that would be their new home. CCTV captured
the couple holding hands on their walk to the Saudi consulate.
They went together to the points to look and it's
(22:11):
in a quiet, leafy, very pretty residential area. This is
Carlotta Golf, the bureau chief of the New York Times
in Istanbul, who reported on the Jamaica Shogi case. He
handed her his bones and goes in, and so she
waited outside. It was one four pm when Kashogi entered
(22:32):
the consulate, and then that was the last only one
sort of thing, um, and then she's hanging around for
hours after until finally it's clear that concerts closed and
she asks the god. They say there's no one here.
She asks the police and you say everyone's gone. And
that's when she started. And then it calls to people.
(22:54):
Her teacher made many calls that night, including some to journalists,
which is how Carlotta got the tip. Because Shogi had
disappeared from the Saudi consulate. The next day, I went
up to consulate and that's where I ran into her
teacha and she was sort of still there, pacing sidewalk,
and she'd been there all that previous night, and then
(23:18):
um was outstanding outside the whole one next day, and
I was the first interview she gave in. But actually
when she saw me, she just started to open up
the society dissidents who wouldn't go near a Saudi concert
or embassy. I knew there were stories of previous kidnappings.
I was thinking he might have been taken out in
(23:39):
the trunk of a car, and I was imagining she
had been taken to an airport, private airport, and already
deport or renditioned, as the word goes what happened from
Jamaica security camera captured the last time journalist Jamaica Shogi
was seen a lot. The group of senators is also
(24:01):
written to trigger an investigation. The State Department says that
is premature. Dana Priest remembers the day Jamaka Shogi went missing.
My mind kept flashing back to the two of us.
We were seated around this gigantic, empty table very you know,
beautiful white tent, white tablecloth. That face kept coming back
(24:25):
to me, and I just kept saying, what in the
hell could have happened in there? You know, in no
way could I have imagined what was happening? Mm hmm yeah.
As news of Kashogi's disappearance spread across the world, local
reporters on the scene in Istanbul, including Carlotta Gal, We're
(24:45):
working together to get more information, but none of us
had any idea of what really had happened. We pieced
together what happened, almost like who done it? For one week,
Jamaka Shogi remained unaccounted for. The Saudi government evaded questions
about his disappearance. It was as if he had vanished
(25:06):
into thin air. And then Turkish intelligence released secret tapes.
So We've been able to piece together the last minutes
of Kashogi's life. Be warned, it's quite explicit. Major breaking
news this morning, A jaw dropping exclusive on the murder
of Washington Post journalist Jamaka Shogi. New footage that is
(25:28):
flat out shocking. Lying in white inside was a Saudi
hit squad. The transcript indicates noises as people set upon
KOI can be heard saying I can't breathe. Kashogi was
then injected with a sedative and suffocated with a plastic
bag brought with them an autopsies expert and a bone
(25:50):
sawed to put the body in a bug no too heavy,
very cool. Kagi was allegedly beheaded and dismembered limb by Limb,
apparent leader of the team. May at least three phone
calls during the murder to a number of Turkish officials
identify as being in the Saudi Royal court. The thing
is done, It's done. It is possible that Jamal's body
(26:13):
was transported back on on one of the planes. A
lot of meat was bought for a barbecue that took
place in the console's garden just after the murder took place,
and that the theory being that Jamal's body was mixed
with this meat and incinerated at a very high temperature.
And it's still kind of appalls me that we were
(26:37):
standing there in the street outside this building where this
unbelievable murder had already occurred, you know. And I still
think of that of Paul her dj to think that
she was just standing there while he was being hacked
to death inside. And I'm sure she's still thinks about
every day. Koshoki's murder caused an international uproar. The grizzly
(27:04):
details came out because Turkish intelligence admitted that they had
been bugging the Saudi consulate. The Turk shared the tapes
with the u N so the world would know what
had happened to Jamal ka Shogi. Investigations by both the
u N and the CIA unequivocally linked Kashoki's murder with
direct orders from inside the Saudi Kingdom. We have breaking
(27:28):
news this afternoon. Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mommed Bin Salman
approved the assassination of Washington Post columns jamalka In. In
one of Kashi's last columns for the Washington Post, he wrote,
what the Arab world needs most is free expression. It
has been four years since Kashoki's murder, and the link
(27:49):
to the Crown Prince is just the tip of the iceberg.
That's after the break after or his murder, there were
a number of roundups of Saudis whose numbers appeared in
the phones of people who were around Jamal. But I
(28:11):
believe the Saudis picked up and in this case detained
for months and months people who were in contact with
some of the people the Jamals in contact with. So
you're seeing this kind of ripple effect. You know, Jamal's
in the middle, and then there's people who followed people
who followed Jamal. What new evidence has revealed and what
(28:36):
we are piecing together on this series is that Jamal
ka Shogi was being tracked more deliberately than anyone ever imagined.
Several of the people that he was in touching where
surveyed by Pegasus. Pegasus has been linked to human rights
abuses on ethical surveillance. The Pegasus spy where made by
Israeli company and s O Group, has been used to
(28:57):
target journalist, dissidents, and activists around The Pegasus spyware it
is the most sophisticated spyware made to date. It was
created by an Israeli tech company. It's marketed to governments
as a way to target, track and capture criminals and terrorists.
But our investigation shows that many confirmed targets of Pegasus
are not criminals or terrorists. The big question remains, did
(29:21):
Jamal ka Shogi have Pegasus on his phone? We may
never be able to answer that questions phones are still
with Turkish authorities more than four years after his death,
but what we can do is examined the lives and
the phones of those closest to him. We all obviously
had an interest in knowing whether Pegasus was used in
(29:44):
any way to surveil, track and then aid the killers
in murdering Jamal ka Shogi. Dana Priests from the Washington
Post as one of dozens of journalists working on the
Pegasus project, a coalition of journalists and active that uncovers
who has been infected with and surveilled by Pegasus, and
(30:05):
together they found a list of confirmed cases, a list
of phone numbers. Danna Priest was focused on finding out
if any of them were connected to Jamal Kashogi. I
drew a big circle of his friends and tried to
get as many phone numbers that we could and we
found about ten people. And then a colleague of mine
(30:28):
Uh heard the post had was able to match a
number that was in the database and was known to
be associated with him, which was Hanan a latter. At
that time, Hanan was really still in the background. Dana
priests learned about Hanana latter three years after the death
(30:51):
of Kashogi. How could Hanan's experiences reveal new information about
the plot to murder Jamal Kashogi. Let's rewind to five
months before the murder of Jamaica Shogy April. They took
me to a horrible place in the border of Dubai
(31:11):
called Allawire. I didn't know where I am because they
blinded me and they handcuffed me. It was very high
security place. I've never seen it in my life. And
they took sample from my d n A from my mouth,
They take a photo for me from different angle, They
(31:32):
take a finger brand and then they took me to
this room for investigation. When Hannan was taken by ui
A government officials, they were looking for something on Hanan's
phone during her interrogation. Till this moment, I don't know
why they've taken me. I came to know why they
took me because they have my phone with them in
another room. They have my password, and he sent me
(31:56):
a message and they came back to me and showed
me and they said. In the middle of Hannan's interrogation,
she received a text from Jama Kashogi. The officials saw
the text and their questions took a different turn. They
asked about Koshoki's colleagues, his friends, his plans. They wanted
(32:16):
to know what he was working on and who he
was working with. This interrogation continued into the morning. After
seventeen hours, she was given back her devices and taken home.
They put me on the house arrisk. They have my
boss porst. They belelisted me and my family. My entire
family could don't fly, and after that I couldn't know
(32:39):
how to communicate with him. Amarati officials. Detaining a flight
attendant in what appears to be a favorite of the
Saudi government is a critical moment. Hanan understood that this
was a bold act, but didn't know what it all
meant for her or for Kashogi. After she was detained,
she did not tell Jamal right away. She didn't want
(33:00):
to tell him on the phone, but she didn't know
who was listening to her, how they knew where to
come and get her, and you know, so she was
so afraid to talk to him and tell him what
had happened. Hanan was under house arrest for several weeks
after she was detained and interrogated by the Emeraldi intelligence
and could not meet Jamal ka Shogi as they had
planned in Washington, d C. But she didn't know how
(33:23):
to tell him what had happened. Jamal went to airport Washington,
DC airport was waiting for me in the airport. Suddenly
he called me in Dubai. He told me, Hannan, I'm
waiting for you and airport where are you? I said, General,
I'm not coming. He said why. I said so, I
(33:43):
tost me just I told him I could to understand
what's is my situation. Hanan's Code is the name of
an Egyptian actress. Both hananaka Shogi shared a love for
Egyptian cinema and are very familiar with the star Suartstnik
(34:05):
You did eat so what Hostne is often called the
Cinderella of Egyptian cinema. In two thousand one, swat host
Ny fell from an apartment balcony in London and died.
Many believed she had ties to Egyptian intelligence officials and
that she was pushed from the balcony. So what host
me was? Han nonced code word to indicate she didn't
(34:27):
trust their line of communication, and he said, so I
tost me. He understood, He said, Hannah and you, I
would protect you. They kept changing ways of communicating in
an effort not to get surveilled. They used all sorts
of things at different times. So signal EMU, what's that?
(34:51):
A couple other things. They came and went. After two
months on house arrest, Hanan was released and got her
passport back. She was back to work okay, and went
on a trip to the United States to meet Kashog.
They had plans to get married. We got to marriage
in June two thousand eighteen. They got married here in
(35:11):
Washington where Jamal had a house an apartment in McLean, Virginia,
and they were married in Islamics ceremony only in part
to protect her and all. They didn't want to have
any record in the civil courts that she even existed
here in the United States. Hanan Kashi were married at
(35:31):
a mosque, but they decided not to get a civil
license as Hanan did not have residents in the US
at the time. The summer of eighteen, Hannan tried to
put her detention behind her. She was cautious but not paranoid.
You think they are watching us in a hotel lobby
or in our room, but she didn't move When we
(35:52):
was in our room, Janal unplug the TV. This is
what is the highest conscience for him about buying or
watching or something. Once I remember he was trying to
understood open in my bubile in case I'm an our
house in Virginia and his mother there and they need
(36:14):
to go around for my shopping or something. He tried
to install Uber and he was going to put his
credit card to number. Then he deleted and they said
why you deleted German. He said, no, if they get
the phone from you and Dubai Hannah, they can get
get into my account. Hannan did not know what to
(36:37):
do after Kashoki was murdered, and occasionally Amaradi intelligence officers
will come by and ask questions, and then Jamal's killed
and she has nowhere to go. She's frying for her life.
She can't live in the U a e. Anymore, so
she comes to the United States to talk to her lawyer,
(36:59):
and her lawyers she just just stay here and we'll
apply for political asylum. And so she is literally a
forgotten woman. Here's this woman that has potentially so much
evidence to share in her devices about Jamal's travels and
who might have been tracking them, and who might have
(37:19):
been complicit with the Saudias, and trying to figure out,
you know, what his travel plans were, what his other
plans were, what he was thinking of doing, and nobody
had ever contacted her. So I took your advices to
a second group that does a lot of forensics, Citizen Lab.
So we worked with Bill. I'm Bill Marzac, a senior
(37:40):
research fellow at the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab. I
study government surveillance, basically trying to determine which governments are
hacking activists, dissidents, civil society and trying to defend civil
society against this this hacking. Bill Marzac is one of
the first people to discover Pegasus. He would need to
look at Hanan's phone. Who when I've been approached first
(38:04):
to cool from Washton Post. They asking me to corporate.
The exciplent to me is they need my devices? I
did hand it over. Bill has experience reverse engineering Pegasus
and knew exactly what to look for examining Hanan's phone.
That's pretty much the only thing you can do when
you get a sample of something that might be interesting
spyware is you have to run it yourself and see
(38:27):
what happens. And I was monitoring the phone's Internet traffic,
so I was seeing everything that came into the phone
that left the phone. When I was monitoring the Internet traffic,
a bunch of weird traffic going to the spiral website
like it was downloading stuff. It was uploading stuff. Uh,
And that was sort of the first key that Oh wow,
so far as closed, but this connectivity is still happening
(38:48):
and it's sending information back. Pegasus can bypass any encryption
because it uses a loophole in a phone software to
be an incognito but active parasite. When Pegasus is on
a phone, Bill can see the evidence of it right away.
You can turn on the microphone to snoop in on
conversations happening around the device. You can take pictures through
(39:09):
the webcam. You can get passwords, you can get WhatsApp messages,
you can get signal messages, you can record calls, you
can track GPS, you can do other things with the
phone sensors. It was full access to the phone. And
there was something else they knew from the types of
text messages she had been sent, which had already been
(39:30):
identified as Pegasus bait, that they had tried to target
her uh several times. So why did the Emeraldi intelligence
officers detain Hanan a ladder and question her overnight. It
turns out they had been trying to trick Hanan into
downloading Pegasus herself. She had received random texts in the
(39:51):
months prior to her detention, but she never clicked on
the links. The bait to get Hanan to infect her
phone in two thousand eight teen were things like, you
have a package downtown at this address, Click here and
tell us that you want us to send it to you.
There was a message from her sister saying, oh, here's
(40:13):
a photo, click this to see the photo. And then
there was one saying you have a bouquet of flowers
waiting for you. Click this and we will get them
to you. Then Dana Priest had to tell her non
the truth that she had spywear on her phone and
that she'd had it since April, since the day she
(40:34):
had been detained. When I recalled the moment this happn't
I took and I feel like my life force in
in a green affront of them. I'm talking about the
people miss use this technology, the be able who humped
my husband and humped me. The Hamaradi intelligence officials had
(40:57):
full access to Hanan's phone every part of her life
for five months before Koshoi was killed. No matter the
steps Hanan had taken, the codes she had used, or
the length she had gone to protect Koshogi, they could
still watch her, and they did. I was feeling very
bad and I'm still feeling very bad. Hanan is still
(41:19):
trying to get Koshogis devices from the Turkish authorities. In
addition to Hanana Lader, others close to Jamal Ka Shogi
have also discovered Pegasus on their phones. Every detail of
their digital footprint was surveiled, including Koshogi's Turkish fiance, teacher
Sings I blamed myself a lot, and Kashogi's close friend
(41:43):
Omar Abdulla Ziz, a fellow outspoken Saudi journalist living in
exile in Canada. All of their correspondences were monitored. The
hacken of my phone played the major role what happened
to jama that. On the next episode of Shoot the Messenger,
we find out how Omar Abduaziz found out he was
(42:05):
being hacked and discovered more than four hundred of his
text messages with Jamaica Shogi were compromised. We'll go into
how this technology works and how Pegasus was first discovered.
On this series, we investigate how Pegasus byware came to be,
what its capabilities are, and ask how does it implicate
(42:26):
ordinary people. Over the next nine episodes will follow the
thread of Pegasus to understand how it was intended to
be used, how it's abused, and the impact of its surveillance.
Pegasus spyware has been a boom for the cyber surveillance
industry and it's impacted the global economy. If you live
in the US and have mutual funds or pension, your
(42:49):
money could be supporting the organization that makes Pegasus spyware.
You've heard about Jamaica Shogu, but there are so many others.
Others who have been targeted and hacked, blackmailed or humiliated,
who have been hunted and killed. Some of the names
you may recognize, like Emmanuel mccron, the president of France,
(43:10):
or Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon. And then there
are stories you haven't heard about. I know, I don't
long her felt safe. Do you know if they got
the information that they were looking for. I don't think
they were looking for any information. I think it was
a form of psychological warfare. I would get a phone
call from someone, but you never anyone on the end
(43:32):
of the phone. They would try to track my GPS.
It does seem like it's always your favorite people who
are being hacked and followed. We have to be way
more careful even about things like this. How do I
know who you are? It's kind of like the nuclear
era before there were nuclear arms treaties. Are you saying
that you think these texts I'm getting are Pegasus? Do
(43:54):
you think I'm being targeted? Oh? For sure. Now it
don't make sense that it's on season one of Shoot
the Messenger. Shoot the Messenger is a production of Exile
Content Studio. We are distributed by PRX, hosted and produced
by me rose Red with Nando Vila, Sabine Jansen, Nora Kibness,
(44:15):
Zak Kirsch, and Anna Isabel Octavio. Written by Me rose
Red with story editing by Nando Vila, Danny Sadia, Jen Atschell,
zak Kirsch, and Rachel Ward. Production assistant by Avros Saspettis
Andrea Zavaios, Jen Shipman, Stella Emmett and Aaron Reese. Special
(44:38):
thanks to Sonic Union and Gail and Matthew Reid. Sound
design and mixing by Patti Knos Daniel Batista, Overseas audio
at Exile Content Studio. Executive producers are myself rose Red
with Nando Vila, Carmen Gradol and Isaac Lee. For more
(44:58):
information on the status of journal US and freedom of
the press, visit the Committee to Protect Journalists at CPJ
dot org. To learn more about Exile and our other
podcasts and films, visit Exile content dot com. The next
episode is out now. Subscribe so you can hear every
twist and turn of this ten part series. You can
(45:20):
find Exiles, Shoot the Messenger, Espionage Murder, and Pegasus Spyware
anywhere you get your podcasts.
Hey, they're more than the movie listeners. I'm Nando Vila.
We're taking over the feed to share a pretty wild
story with you. It's called Shoot the Messenger, Espionage, murder
and Pegasus Spyware. I've been working on this project for
over two years. Shoot the Messenger is a new bi
weekly serialized podcast from Exile Content. Season one is all
(00:23):
about Pegasus spyware. Pegasus is the world's most sophisticated spyware
to date. It can give full access to your phone.
That means everything, your texts, emails, phone calls, camera, microphone everything.
How did this spyware come to be? We'll investigate how
it works, who makes it, and the industry booming around it.
(00:47):
An episode one, which you're about to hear, will start
with the murder of journalist Jamal Kashogi and uncover how
Pegasus was found on the phones of many in his
inner circle. Here is Shoot the Messenger. Dubai is known
for luxury, high end shopping and a bump in nightlife.
(01:11):
The heat and the United Arab Emirates can be oppressive,
but in springtime Dubai can be pleasant. You can expect
sunshine with clear skies, balmy but not too hot. It
was a night like this on ap when Hanan, a latter,
(01:33):
landed in her hometown of Dubai. After twenty two years
as a flight attendant with Emirates Airlines, the routine had
long turned to muscle memory. On this Saturday night, Hanan
had just finished a long flight from Toronto. Her shift
was over and she was tired and ready to go home.
(01:53):
Hanan would have been wearing the standard Amarani uniform, a
fitted cream colored blazer with red piping with signature red
pill box hat. And this is where I like to
imagine Hanan and red pumps clacking along in the manner
which is distinctive to crew and pilots no matter how
often you fly, pulling a black roll away behind her,
always black, and maybe she had one of those squarish
(02:16):
topebags trapped on top of her roll away. Hannan had
deboarded a plane, exited the gate area, and walked through
immigration at Dubai's International Airport thousands of times, but this
time something was different. And this immigration people they know
(02:37):
me by name. He normally took my passport to speak
to me about my flight, but in this case, he
said Hannan within the side. The system is down and
I feel there is something wrong. Hannan rushed into a
nearby bathroom and locked herself in a stall. She called
the person she always called once she landed at home,
(02:58):
her sister, and I told you, my sister, there's somethingle
and go on. Hanan had a terrible feeling that the
Emiadi men hanging around immigration had something to do with
her fiance. Her fiance was a journalist known for speaking
out on human rights, and in the UAE, loudly defending
human rights could get you detained or even jailed. Hanan's
(03:23):
fiance had already told her he worried about the way
his work would impact her life. He gave me the
engagement drink, and when he put the rink in my hand,
he said, Hannan and his kids, I might be a
curse in new life. I might create a problem for you.
Hanan wasn't involved in politics, She hadn't had any run
(03:45):
ins with the police. But sitting in that bathroom stall
in the Dubai airport, her fiance's words echoed in her head.
I remember this wound. I was very scared. She gathered
herself and left the stall. When Hanan walked out of
the bathroom, She was quickly flanked by Emirati intelligence officers.
(04:08):
One of the member woke with us quietly and the
behavior shift. I realized you just have to comply with Jim.
Hanan was unhandcuffed, blindfolded, put in a car, and taken
to an interrogation cell. I cannot experts to you. What
(04:28):
is my feeling is this time the band in my
stomach from the bannock. The intelligence officers demanded she hand
over all of her devices, a laptop and two Android phones,
and that to share her passwords. She was taken to
a remote location where she was questioned overnight and into
the morning. Seventeen hours later, the intelligence officers returned Hanan's
(04:53):
devices and took her home. Hanan wanted to resume the
life she had built for herself, leading a cabin crew
across trans atlantic flights, traveling and visiting family. She looked
forward to her wedding ceremony in Washington, d C. Just
a couple of months away. But after she was detained,
everything changed. It turns out that while Hanan was being questioned,
(05:18):
the Emirati intelligence officers were executing a much more effective
plan to get information from her. I never had my
normal life back. That's because when Amiradi intelligence officers had
Hanan's phone, they installed a highly sophisticated piece of spywear,
and as Hanan went about her life, the spy where
(05:39):
had unknowingly turned her into an informant, providing a direct
window to the person she cared about. Most fears are
growing over the fate of missing Saudi journalist Jamaka, who
vanished after entering this Saudi Arabian consulate in Restrountable details
(06:01):
are pouring in about the likely death of this Washington
Post columnist because and they are just simply horrifying. Jamal
Kashogi Hannan's newly what husband, the Saudi journalist who had
been living in Washington, d C. In South exile writing
op eds for the Washington Post, was assassinated just months
after her detention. We never thought me, uncle Johnal. They
(06:26):
will be extremists to their level to kill him, and
this terrible way. When Kashoki disappeared from the Saudi consulate
in it would be weeks before the world learned what
occurred in his final hours. But it's taken years for
us to learn he wasn't just killed. He was systematically
(06:46):
hunted in a way we have never seen before. And
what we now know is that the first weapon used
against Kashogi was digital and it's called Pegasus. Pegasus is
probably the most advanced piece of spy where it is
effectively the most invasive form of surveillance imaginable licenses this
software to intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Worldwidime tool can
(07:10):
also be deployed by a government to crush descent. Pecasus
is a kind of software that can be used to
hijack your phone. It's a military grade spying software. It's
this magic thing. It can infect your phone, and once
it does, it's inside of your phone and it's like
a little worm and it can burrow into every piece
(07:33):
of equipment in your phone. This is Dana Priest. She
covers national security for the Washington Post, the same newspaper
as Jamal Kashogi. It can turn the microphone on, it
can turn the camera on. It can go into all
of your photos, all of your emails, even your deleted messages,
(07:54):
and scoop them up and take them somewhere seven and
you'll never know it. You'll never know it. Pegasus implicates
several countries and multiple government agencies and unites unlikely allies.
It's part of a massive and mostly unregulated, multibillion dollar
global industry. Battlefields aren't physical anymore. They aren't far away
(08:19):
across oceans or borders. They're in our pocket. And the
threats that journalists face as they seek out and reveal
uncomfortable truths are threats that we are all vulnerable to,
no matter where we live, who we know, and what
we do. Jamaica Showgi's assassination reveals that journalists are the
(08:39):
canaries in the coal mine these days. You don't have
to be a high profile journalists, or a dissident or
a famous truth teller to get swept up. If you've
ever had a phone, if you've ever had a secret,
you're at risk too. I'm Nando Vila and I'm Rose
Reed and this is Shoot the Messenger, a new investigative
(09:03):
reporting podcast from Exile Content Studio. Every season, we investigate
one international news story you may have heard the headlines.
This is the deep dive. Nando and I started the
series with one question, what is the biggest threat to
journalists today? We put up a bulletin board and stuck
a pen for every journalist who was threatened or assassinated,
(09:26):
or if they had a family member who was threatened
or assassinated directly because of their work in the last
five years. And we found one link that kept coming
up again and again, from Mexico to d C to
the United Arab Emirates Pegasus. How did this spyware come
to be? How does it work? And how vulnerable are you?
(09:49):
Over the course of ten episodes, we're doing a special
partnership with the Committee to Protect Journalists on espionage, murder
and Pegasus spyware put in the hell could have happened
in there? Which he's together what happened? Almost like who
done it? Given one instance of an attack, can we
trace that to other instances in other countries as well?
(10:11):
Regarding the spying and the bagattis, we did not know.
They did drag him through me because they know the
closest to hunt to him. They started with me. Episode
one Jamaica Shogi a story told in three parts his life,
(10:32):
death and betrayal. Jamal was a great man as a
journalist and as a husband. Hanana latter first met Jamalka
Shogi at a conference in two thousand and nine. Jamal
is a kind of person we can say is not
in the right or left. He's in the middle in
(10:54):
his opinion and his vision because he's very open minded.
Any bad ground can sit down with Jamal any race
any i do Luji and do you have a different
view from him? But you will walk away with a smile.
Nana Kashoki captain touch and they are friends for almost
a decade before their romance began. I met Jamal first
(11:16):
time with was a nine in Dubai where I grown up,
and I remember very well. We had a conversation over
two hours. He was talking about the Middle East politics
and form policy of US toward the Middle East, and
we realize we are like a twin and we continue.
(11:39):
And I always used to give him a feedback in
any article in the published opinion. I used to give
him a feedback and he was always waiting for me,
calling me up, discussing with me. Kasoki spent most of
his career as a writer and editor for Amadina, one
of the oldest and biggest newspapers in Saudi Arabia. Kashoki
(11:59):
had grown up among a social elite and considered himself
a moderate, but over time he developed a reputation in
the Middle East for speaking truth to power. Speaking out
cost him several jobs. He was fired from Almadina for
publishing pieces that were critical of the Saudi regime, supporting
women's rights to drive, or blowing the whistle on corruption
(12:20):
among the religious police. Kaushoki then worked for Saudi ambassadors
and diplomats, living between Washington, d C. And Saudi Arabia.
This way he was able to maintain his elite social
status in the kingdom and then in the Arab spring
erupted across the Middle East. It's the first Arab revolution
(12:44):
or it wills that people were fearless, but that they
were joyous deposed. Egypt eighteen Day Revolution defies all expectations.
Protesters across Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Bahrain used social
media to nice the masses and take to the streets.
In turn, many leaders in the region began to heavily
(13:05):
surveil social media in order to curtail public discourse and dissent.
A new industry developed to keep up with government's demand
to surveil. The press was a major target. The Committee
to Protect Journalists has reported that at the end of
more than three hundred and sixty journalists, which is increase
(13:25):
over around the world, are currently imprisoned, either charged with
crimes against the state like treason, or their paper of
record charged with libel, or even a personal matter exposed
if illegal in their country, like committing adultery. Journalism such
a critical component at the outset of the Arab Spring
(13:47):
has become one of its long term casual. For the
very first time, a lot of the main television channels
in Egypt are directly owned by the Egyptian military. This
is new. You only need to target a handful of
journalists before the rest of them are in line. Enjoying
the episode, make sure to subscribe to Shoot the Messenger Espionage,
(14:10):
Murder and Pegasus spyware. You can find exiles Shoot the
Messenger anywhere you get your podcasts. Okay, let's get back
to the episode. Following the Arab Spring in two thousand eleven,
authorities across North Africa and the Middle East increased online
censorship and took over broadcast networks and media companies. Revolution
(14:32):
did not come to Saudi Arabia, but in Saudi Arabia
got a new leader, now a thirty one, an astonishing
rights to power appears complete. They call him MBS. He's young,
popular and promising more change than these country's ever seen.
The Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, commonly referred to as MBS,
(14:55):
initially spoke of reforms. He allowed women to drive and
attend sporting events. But while MBS endorsed some social reform,
he crushed any type of political reform or opposition. Here's
a clip of Jamal ka Shogi commenting on the new leadership,
taken from an interview he did with Global News. I
(15:16):
have fixed treelings about that. I'm very much supportive for
his reform for reform, but in the same time I
immediately say he doesn't need to disintimidation. Mohammed bin Samon
took the new social media playbook to a new level
in Saudi Arabia. He worked closely with authorities to watch,
(15:37):
target and silence any opposition, either discrediting opponents and complex
media campaigns or arresting them and sometimes their family members
as well. Kahoki's friends advised him to be careful. It
was sad to me, but it is not that I
time to shave MBS and his media is our singled
(16:01):
out independent journalists after Koshogi openly questioned the Saudi regime
support for the newly elected American President Donald Trump on Twitter.
Authorities told Koshogi to stay offline in two thousand sixteen
because he said a negative opinion about electing President Donald Trump.
The Saudi authority did most like he speaking frankly and
(16:23):
ask him to sit down at home, not to write anything.
Most to a bear almost under house arrested in the
summer of two thousand seventeen, Jama Kashogi decided it was
time to leave his home country of Saudi Arabia. Whatever
ner space I had was getting nerwer, So I just
(16:45):
decided to leave before I just do it. Sixty years
old and they want to enjoy life and they want
to be three to speak for my country. Kashoki continued
his reporting, but he never considered himself a dissident. Jammal
did not leave to criticize, only just for a sick
of criticize. Jam l was of domestic about future of
(17:08):
his country. He loved his country, but he loved to
be identified as in Saogia and Arabs. Kashoki went to
d C and began writing Our Beds for the Washington Post.
Kashogi put more than six thousand miles between himself and
the Crown Prince and thought he would start a new chapter,
one where he could be free to speak his mind.
(17:32):
Hanan allowed her remembers the day Kaushoki arrived in the
United States. I was in London in this day operating
my flights. Immediately I called to him to chicken him.
I was so happy, and I did tell him something
and I believe in it. I said, make use of
your freedom. Speak up, And Kashoki did speak up. He
(17:56):
used his new platform in the United States to comment
on his home country and Middle Eastern politics, and his
first columns for The Washington Post, Kashogi wrote, quote Saudi
Arabia's Crown Prince is acting like Putin, and quote Saudi
Arabia wasn't always this repressive. Now it's unbearable. As Jamaka
(18:17):
Shogi worked in exile, his fan base grew to over
a million followers on Twitter. Saudi has an extremely active
Twitter base. There's data showing that more than seventy of
Saudis are Twitter users. Even in ocean away from Saudi
Arabia Jamaica, Shogi still knew he had to be cautious.
He avoided going to Saudi embassies and would tell his
(18:39):
fellow exiled friends to avoid them too, But he wasn't scared.
As Hanan would describe, he was trying to be carefully,
but he wasn't scared for his life. He never come
back home and the books that change fifty chin in
the door I used to do before we go to sleep.
Kashoki got comfortable with his new life in exile, but
(19:01):
he was homesick. He wanted to build a more permanent
home and turned to Istanbul, Turkey, a mix between east
and West, closer to his home country, but what Kashoki
considered a safe enough distance. We agree. You have to
buy a fleft in the stumble, to get a passport
and to get a shelter from the Turkish authority. Moving
a Turkey this is where things got a little more complicated. Well,
(19:27):
Jamal's personal life was more complex than we knew before
he died. He had two relationships. One was a longer
relationship and he was married and that was Hanan. And
the second relationship that we knew more about was his
(19:49):
recent fiance Hatija in Turkey, so the two women did
not know each other. During a trip to Istanbul, a
friend entered Koshogi to a Turkish scholar, Hatija Sindas. Around
the same time Kashoki married Hanan in a religious Muslim
ceremony in Washington, d C. He began dating Hatija and
(20:12):
Istanbul and Hanan didn't know about Hadija and Atisha didn't
know about Hanan, and most people, honestly, even his good friends,
did not know about Hanan. We're not here to focus
on Kashogi's romantic endeavors. He's not here to explain himself
to us or to the women in his life. But
(20:34):
it's important to know because to understand how Koshoki died,
we need to unpack the logistical details around the engagement
to Turkish scholar Hatija Sindas because to get legally married
in Turkey, Kashogi needed paperwork, and to get that paperwork,
Kashoki had to go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
(21:05):
On Friday, septem eighteen, Jamal Ko Shogi didn't make an
appointment to visit the Saudi consulate. He just walked in
and to kashogi surprise, he was greeted warmly. After years
of experiencing harassment and intimidation from the government, which had
ultimately forced him to live in exile. Kaushogi found himself
(21:27):
being offered tea by the Saudi officials in Istanbul. They
told him to come back Tuesday, October two to get
the final paperwork. In the last five days, Kashogi was alive.
He lived like a freeman. He traveled to London for
a conference, made plans for the future. He was emailing
his editors at the Washington Post, bloodsapping with friends across
the world, texting with Hanan, and arranging logistics with Hatch.
(21:51):
Back in Istanbul. The morning of Tuesday October two, two eighteen,
Kashogi met Hatija at an empty apart mint in his
tample one that would be their new home. CCTV captured
the couple holding hands on their walk to the Saudi consulate.
They went together to the points to look and it's
(22:11):
in a quiet, leafy, very pretty residential area. This is
Carlotta Golf, the bureau chief of the New York Times
in Istanbul, who reported on the Jamaica Shogi case. He
handed her his bones and goes in, and so she
waited outside. It was one four pm when Kashogi entered
(22:32):
the consulate, and then that was the last only one
sort of thing, um, and then she's hanging around for
hours after until finally it's clear that concerts closed and
she asks the god. They say there's no one here.
She asks the police and you say everyone's gone. And
that's when she started. And then it calls to people.
(22:54):
Her teacher made many calls that night, including some to journalists,
which is how Carlotta got the tip. Because Shogi had
disappeared from the Saudi consulate. The next day, I went
up to consulate and that's where I ran into her
teacha and she was sort of still there, pacing sidewalk,
and she'd been there all that previous night, and then
(23:18):
um was outstanding outside the whole one next day, and
I was the first interview she gave in. But actually
when she saw me, she just started to open up
the society dissidents who wouldn't go near a Saudi concert
or embassy. I knew there were stories of previous kidnappings.
I was thinking he might have been taken out in
(23:39):
the trunk of a car, and I was imagining she
had been taken to an airport, private airport, and already
deport or renditioned, as the word goes what happened from
Jamaica security camera captured the last time journalist Jamaica Shogi
was seen a lot. The group of senators is also
(24:01):
written to trigger an investigation. The State Department says that
is premature. Dana Priest remembers the day Jamaka Shogi went missing.
My mind kept flashing back to the two of us.
We were seated around this gigantic, empty table very you know,
beautiful white tent, white tablecloth. That face kept coming back
(24:25):
to me, and I just kept saying, what in the
hell could have happened in there? You know, in no
way could I have imagined what was happening? Mm hmm yeah.
As news of Kashogi's disappearance spread across the world, local
reporters on the scene in Istanbul, including Carlotta Gal, We're
(24:45):
working together to get more information, but none of us
had any idea of what really had happened. We pieced
together what happened, almost like who done it? For one week,
Jamaka Shogi remained unaccounted for. The Saudi government evaded questions
about his disappearance. It was as if he had vanished
(25:06):
into thin air. And then Turkish intelligence released secret tapes.
So We've been able to piece together the last minutes
of Kashogi's life. Be warned, it's quite explicit. Major breaking
news this morning, A jaw dropping exclusive on the murder
of Washington Post journalist Jamaka Shogi. New footage that is
(25:28):
flat out shocking. Lying in white inside was a Saudi
hit squad. The transcript indicates noises as people set upon
KOI can be heard saying I can't breathe. Kashogi was
then injected with a sedative and suffocated with a plastic
bag brought with them an autopsies expert and a bone
(25:50):
sawed to put the body in a bug no too heavy,
very cool. Kagi was allegedly beheaded and dismembered limb by Limb,
apparent leader of the team. May at least three phone
calls during the murder to a number of Turkish officials
identify as being in the Saudi Royal court. The thing
is done, It's done. It is possible that Jamal's body
(26:13):
was transported back on on one of the planes. A
lot of meat was bought for a barbecue that took
place in the console's garden just after the murder took place,
and that the theory being that Jamal's body was mixed
with this meat and incinerated at a very high temperature.
And it's still kind of appalls me that we were
(26:37):
standing there in the street outside this building where this
unbelievable murder had already occurred, you know. And I still
think of that of Paul her dj to think that
she was just standing there while he was being hacked
to death inside. And I'm sure she's still thinks about
every day. Koshoki's murder caused an international uproar. The grizzly
(27:04):
details came out because Turkish intelligence admitted that they had
been bugging the Saudi consulate. The Turk shared the tapes
with the u N so the world would know what
had happened to Jamal ka Shogi. Investigations by both the
u N and the CIA unequivocally linked Kashoki's murder with
direct orders from inside the Saudi Kingdom. We have breaking
(27:28):
news this afternoon. Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mommed Bin Salman
approved the assassination of Washington Post columns jamalka In. In
one of Kashi's last columns for the Washington Post, he wrote,
what the Arab world needs most is free expression. It
has been four years since Kashoki's murder, and the link
(27:49):
to the Crown Prince is just the tip of the iceberg.
That's after the break after or his murder, there were
a number of roundups of Saudis whose numbers appeared in
the phones of people who were around Jamal. But I
(28:11):
believe the Saudis picked up and in this case detained
for months and months people who were in contact with
some of the people the Jamals in contact with. So
you're seeing this kind of ripple effect. You know, Jamal's
in the middle, and then there's people who followed people
who followed Jamal. What new evidence has revealed and what
(28:36):
we are piecing together on this series is that Jamal
ka Shogi was being tracked more deliberately than anyone ever imagined.
Several of the people that he was in touching where
surveyed by Pegasus. Pegasus has been linked to human rights
abuses on ethical surveillance. The Pegasus spy where made by
Israeli company and s O Group, has been used to
(28:57):
target journalist, dissidents, and activists around The Pegasus spyware it
is the most sophisticated spyware made to date. It was
created by an Israeli tech company. It's marketed to governments
as a way to target, track and capture criminals and terrorists.
But our investigation shows that many confirmed targets of Pegasus
are not criminals or terrorists. The big question remains, did
(29:21):
Jamal ka Shogi have Pegasus on his phone? We may
never be able to answer that questions phones are still
with Turkish authorities more than four years after his death,
but what we can do is examined the lives and
the phones of those closest to him. We all obviously
had an interest in knowing whether Pegasus was used in
(29:44):
any way to surveil, track and then aid the killers
in murdering Jamal ka Shogi. Dana Priests from the Washington
Post as one of dozens of journalists working on the
Pegasus project, a coalition of journalists and active that uncovers
who has been infected with and surveilled by Pegasus, and
(30:05):
together they found a list of confirmed cases, a list
of phone numbers. Danna Priest was focused on finding out
if any of them were connected to Jamal Kashogi. I
drew a big circle of his friends and tried to
get as many phone numbers that we could and we
found about ten people. And then a colleague of mine
(30:28):
Uh heard the post had was able to match a
number that was in the database and was known to
be associated with him, which was Hanan a latter. At
that time, Hanan was really still in the background. Dana
priests learned about Hanana latter three years after the death
(30:51):
of Kashogi. How could Hanan's experiences reveal new information about
the plot to murder Jamal Kashogi. Let's rewind to five
months before the murder of Jamaica Shogy April. They took
me to a horrible place in the border of Dubai
(31:11):
called Allawire. I didn't know where I am because they
blinded me and they handcuffed me. It was very high
security place. I've never seen it in my life. And
they took sample from my d n A from my mouth,
They take a photo for me from different angle, They
(31:32):
take a finger brand and then they took me to
this room for investigation. When Hannan was taken by ui
A government officials, they were looking for something on Hanan's
phone during her interrogation. Till this moment, I don't know
why they've taken me. I came to know why they
took me because they have my phone with them in
another room. They have my password, and he sent me
(31:56):
a message and they came back to me and showed
me and they said. In the middle of Hannan's interrogation,
she received a text from Jama Kashogi. The officials saw
the text and their questions took a different turn. They
asked about Koshoki's colleagues, his friends, his plans. They wanted
(32:16):
to know what he was working on and who he
was working with. This interrogation continued into the morning. After
seventeen hours, she was given back her devices and taken home.
They put me on the house arrisk. They have my
boss porst. They belelisted me and my family. My entire
family could don't fly, and after that I couldn't know
(32:39):
how to communicate with him. Amarati officials. Detaining a flight
attendant in what appears to be a favorite of the
Saudi government is a critical moment. Hanan understood that this
was a bold act, but didn't know what it all
meant for her or for Kashogi. After she was detained,
she did not tell Jamal right away. She didn't want
(33:00):
to tell him on the phone, but she didn't know
who was listening to her, how they knew where to
come and get her, and you know, so she was
so afraid to talk to him and tell him what
had happened. Hanan was under house arrest for several weeks
after she was detained and interrogated by the Emeraldi intelligence
and could not meet Jamal ka Shogi as they had
planned in Washington, d C. But she didn't know how
(33:23):
to tell him what had happened. Jamal went to airport Washington,
DC airport was waiting for me in the airport. Suddenly
he called me in Dubai. He told me, Hannan, I'm
waiting for you and airport where are you? I said, General,
I'm not coming. He said why. I said so, I
(33:43):
tost me just I told him I could to understand
what's is my situation. Hanan's Code is the name of
an Egyptian actress. Both hananaka Shogi shared a love for
Egyptian cinema and are very familiar with the star Suartstnik
(34:05):
You did eat so what Hostne is often called the
Cinderella of Egyptian cinema. In two thousand one, swat host
Ny fell from an apartment balcony in London and died.
Many believed she had ties to Egyptian intelligence officials and
that she was pushed from the balcony. So what host
me was? Han nonced code word to indicate she didn't
(34:27):
trust their line of communication, and he said, so I
tost me. He understood, He said, Hannah and you, I
would protect you. They kept changing ways of communicating in
an effort not to get surveilled. They used all sorts
of things at different times. So signal EMU, what's that?
(34:51):
A couple other things. They came and went. After two
months on house arrest, Hanan was released and got her
passport back. She was back to work okay, and went
on a trip to the United States to meet Kashog.
They had plans to get married. We got to marriage
in June two thousand eighteen. They got married here in
(35:11):
Washington where Jamal had a house an apartment in McLean, Virginia,
and they were married in Islamics ceremony only in part
to protect her and all. They didn't want to have
any record in the civil courts that she even existed
here in the United States. Hanan Kashi were married at
(35:31):
a mosque, but they decided not to get a civil
license as Hanan did not have residents in the US
at the time. The summer of eighteen, Hannan tried to
put her detention behind her. She was cautious but not paranoid.
You think they are watching us in a hotel lobby
or in our room, but she didn't move When we
(35:52):
was in our room, Janal unplug the TV. This is
what is the highest conscience for him about buying or
watching or something. Once I remember he was trying to
understood open in my bubile in case I'm an our
house in Virginia and his mother there and they need
(36:14):
to go around for my shopping or something. He tried
to install Uber and he was going to put his
credit card to number. Then he deleted and they said
why you deleted German. He said, no, if they get
the phone from you and Dubai Hannah, they can get
get into my account. Hannan did not know what to
(36:37):
do after Kashoki was murdered, and occasionally Amaradi intelligence officers
will come by and ask questions, and then Jamal's killed
and she has nowhere to go. She's frying for her life.
She can't live in the U a e. Anymore, so
she comes to the United States to talk to her lawyer,
(36:59):
and her lawyers she just just stay here and we'll
apply for political asylum. And so she is literally a
forgotten woman. Here's this woman that has potentially so much
evidence to share in her devices about Jamal's travels and
who might have been tracking them, and who might have
(37:19):
been complicit with the Saudias, and trying to figure out,
you know, what his travel plans were, what his other
plans were, what he was thinking of doing, and nobody
had ever contacted her. So I took your advices to
a second group that does a lot of forensics, Citizen Lab.
So we worked with Bill. I'm Bill Marzac, a senior
(37:40):
research fellow at the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab. I
study government surveillance, basically trying to determine which governments are
hacking activists, dissidents, civil society and trying to defend civil
society against this this hacking. Bill Marzac is one of
the first people to discover Pegasus. He would need to
look at Hanan's phone. Who when I've been approached first
(38:04):
to cool from Washton Post. They asking me to corporate.
The exciplent to me is they need my devices? I
did hand it over. Bill has experience reverse engineering Pegasus
and knew exactly what to look for examining Hanan's phone.
That's pretty much the only thing you can do when
you get a sample of something that might be interesting
spyware is you have to run it yourself and see
(38:27):
what happens. And I was monitoring the phone's Internet traffic,
so I was seeing everything that came into the phone
that left the phone. When I was monitoring the Internet traffic,
a bunch of weird traffic going to the spiral website
like it was downloading stuff. It was uploading stuff. Uh,
And that was sort of the first key that Oh wow,
so far as closed, but this connectivity is still happening
(38:48):
and it's sending information back. Pegasus can bypass any encryption
because it uses a loophole in a phone software to
be an incognito but active parasite. When Pegasus is on
a phone, Bill can see the evidence of it right away.
You can turn on the microphone to snoop in on
conversations happening around the device. You can take pictures through
(39:09):
the webcam. You can get passwords, you can get WhatsApp messages,
you can get signal messages, you can record calls, you
can track GPS, you can do other things with the
phone sensors. It was full access to the phone. And
there was something else they knew from the types of
text messages she had been sent, which had already been
(39:30):
identified as Pegasus bait, that they had tried to target
her uh several times. So why did the Emeraldi intelligence
officers detain Hanan a ladder and question her overnight. It
turns out they had been trying to trick Hanan into
downloading Pegasus herself. She had received random texts in the
(39:51):
months prior to her detention, but she never clicked on
the links. The bait to get Hanan to infect her
phone in two thousand eight teen were things like, you
have a package downtown at this address, Click here and
tell us that you want us to send it to you.
There was a message from her sister saying, oh, here's
(40:13):
a photo, click this to see the photo. And then
there was one saying you have a bouquet of flowers
waiting for you. Click this and we will get them
to you. Then Dana Priest had to tell her non
the truth that she had spywear on her phone and
that she'd had it since April, since the day she
(40:34):
had been detained. When I recalled the moment this happn't
I took and I feel like my life force in
in a green affront of them. I'm talking about the
people miss use this technology, the be able who humped
my husband and humped me. The Hamaradi intelligence officials had
(40:57):
full access to Hanan's phone every part of her life
for five months before Koshoi was killed. No matter the
steps Hanan had taken, the codes she had used, or
the length she had gone to protect Koshogi, they could
still watch her, and they did. I was feeling very
bad and I'm still feeling very bad. Hanan is still
(41:19):
trying to get Koshogis devices from the Turkish authorities. In
addition to Hanana Lader, others close to Jamal Ka Shogi
have also discovered Pegasus on their phones. Every detail of
their digital footprint was surveiled, including Koshogi's Turkish fiance, teacher
Sings I blamed myself a lot, and Kashogi's close friend
(41:43):
Omar Abdulla Ziz, a fellow outspoken Saudi journalist living in
exile in Canada. All of their correspondences were monitored. The
hacken of my phone played the major role what happened
to jama that. On the next episode of Shoot the Messenger,
we find out how Omar Abduaziz found out he was
(42:05):
being hacked and discovered more than four hundred of his
text messages with Jamaica Shogi were compromised. We'll go into
how this technology works and how Pegasus was first discovered.
On this series, we investigate how Pegasus byware came to be,
what its capabilities are, and ask how does it implicate
(42:26):
ordinary people. Over the next nine episodes will follow the
thread of Pegasus to understand how it was intended to
be used, how it's abused, and the impact of its surveillance.
Pegasus spyware has been a boom for the cyber surveillance
industry and it's impacted the global economy. If you live
in the US and have mutual funds or pension, your
(42:49):
money could be supporting the organization that makes Pegasus spyware.
You've heard about Jamaica Shogu, but there are so many others.
Others who have been targeted and hacked, blackmailed or humiliated,
who have been hunted and killed. Some of the names
you may recognize, like Emmanuel mccron, the president of France,
(43:10):
or Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon. And then there
are stories you haven't heard about. I know, I don't
long her felt safe. Do you know if they got
the information that they were looking for. I don't think
they were looking for any information. I think it was
a form of psychological warfare. I would get a phone
call from someone, but you never anyone on the end
(43:32):
of the phone. They would try to track my GPS.
It does seem like it's always your favorite people who
are being hacked and followed. We have to be way
more careful even about things like this. How do I
know who you are? It's kind of like the nuclear
era before there were nuclear arms treaties. Are you saying
that you think these texts I'm getting are Pegasus? Do
(43:54):
you think I'm being targeted? Oh? For sure. Now it
don't make sense that it's on season one of Shoot
the Messenger. Shoot the Messenger is a production of Exile
Content Studio. We are distributed by PRX, hosted and produced
by me rose Red with Nando Vila, Sabine Jansen, Nora Kibness,
(44:15):
Zak Kirsch, and Anna Isabel Octavio. Written by Me rose
Red with story editing by Nando Vila, Danny Sadia, Jen Atschell,
zak Kirsch, and Rachel Ward. Production assistant by Avros Saspettis
Andrea Zavaios, Jen Shipman, Stella Emmett and Aaron Reese. Special
(44:38):
thanks to Sonic Union and Gail and Matthew Reid. Sound
design and mixing by Patti Knos Daniel Batista, Overseas audio
at Exile Content Studio. Executive producers are myself rose Red
with Nando Vila, Carmen Gradol and Isaac Lee. For more
(44:58):
information on the status of journal US and freedom of
the press, visit the Committee to Protect Journalists at CPJ
dot org. To learn more about Exile and our other
podcasts and films, visit Exile content dot com. The next
episode is out now. Subscribe so you can hear every
twist and turn of this ten part series. You can
(45:20):
find Exiles, Shoot the Messenger, Espionage Murder, and Pegasus Spyware
anywhere you get your podcasts.
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