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December 9, 2021 55 mins

Tori and Aneesa are joined by the legend himself, TJ Lavin, to discuss the beginning of his final, an elimination that has been brewing all season, and what set Spies, Lies and Allies apart from the 29 other seasons he's hosted.

Join Tori and Aneesa every Thursday as they go behind the scenes of The Challenge: Spies Lies and Allies, and Fridays, as they pull back the curtain on The Challenge: All Stars 2, on MTV's Official Challenge Podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, it's Tor and I'm Anissa, and this is
MTV's official Challenge podcast where we go behind the scenes
of the Challenge spies, lies and allies. We've got an
incredible episode for you this week. Guys. We are joined
by the one and only legend himself, TJ Lavin. Yes,
and we are going to discuss maybe one of the

spiciest episodes of the season, from the insanity of that
Night of Eliminations, which I am not excited to talk about,
and the beginning of TJ's brutal final. Well, we should
get started then, all right, let's just get into it
and get over it. All right, Anissa, it's your favorite Yep,

there it is. It's the time, mom. It's the thirty
second nope, thirty seven second recap and honor of it
being the thirty seventh season of The Challenge. Can you
be nice about me if you do it? Actually read
me out, give it to me. Let's go three two one,
go Tories and Tories watching people do eliminations and she's
been a real meanie. Yeah that take thirty seven seconds? Okay, no,

all right, s Knight of Eliminations and everybody's in there
and amail Well versus Deven and then email Tori cries,
I know I'm getting there, and Tori beats Amanda and
Amanda called her a hater but don't get it because
she's not. And what else happened? Oh, and then you
all make it to the final but Tori loses her mind,
it gets really gassy and loses her man. Yea all

in thirty seven seconds. Yeah, honestly, that was a good recap,
pretty spot on. I think we can just dive into it.
Why don't we just call the play of the day.
What do you think the best athletic move was? I mean,
you carried someone like a like a like a Fannie
pack or a baby. Thank you, you did a really
good job. I'm proud of you. Thanks. I think it

all that. I think it's also fair to give me
the dirtiest deed. Yes, you are dirty, dirty play of
the day, dude. I feel really bad about that. I
honestly have been five d It's five Listen. We can
get into that more as we talk about it. But
I'm comfortable thank you for giving me play of the day.
I'm also comfortable with taking dirtiest deed because I'm not

proud of this episode at all. But let's get into it.
So obviously we start with this night of eliminations and
A hesa, you can understand what it's like to be
there so close to the final and then have some
fuck shit happened right before you get there. I mean,
like the Night of Eliminations was literally everyone's worst nightmare. Like, yeah,
no one was safe, not one person. Get up in

the line right here, right now, say a name, and
we're starting with girls, and you know, a Manuel kicks
it off. He obviously just beat Logan and elimination and
him and Amanda are friends, but it was obviously he
shows at that moment that he has my loyalty because
he could have called out anybody Babe specifically called her out,
and he started that whole thing off right, so he
had my back. And then we all go down the line,

and you know, I think a lot of people voted
for Amanda because they realized that she was going to
have to call somebody out on elimination, and I think
they realized she wasn't going to call them because she
had so much beef with me, even though I think
that it's possible she could have called anybody. Yeah, but
the smartest, the smartest choices to pick her if it
were going to be anything like physical physical, if it

were but something else, yeah, like you don't know, and
I don't mean physical and in other regards because she
can climb, you know, so it's I mean like bodyweight stuff.
Then yeah, but that's not a guarantee you might get
another ice bath, right right, Well, we didn't know what
the elimination was, which is really interesting, and TJ said, yeah,
I'm not going to tell you guys, but it really

clicked in my mind at that moment, like, if they're
moving in some type of structure, it's probably not going
to be big. If we have to do another elimination
after this, it's probably going to be something physical. We
have this ring, we know the deal. If you want
it to be a physical elimination, you just put one
or two things in there and they're not really hard
and heavy for the set and production to move. So
in my mind, I was like, damn, it's probably going

to be something super physical. They've renamed it drone drop
and stead of balls in but yeah, this one had
two things, so you had to make it in not
the same one, but in different ones, right, Well, we
each had our own barrel. You just had to go
get it and then make it into your barrel exactly.
But yeah, I was, believe it or not, incredibly nervous,
Like there's just always that fear that goes over your head,

like am I gonna trip right when I take my
first step? Like those like that, am I gonna throw
the ball? And this is gonna be a bad idea
because you're at a moment there where I was like,
I gotta give her credit because when we first went
for it, like she was all over my body and
like anybody can tell you, like if you have a
person on you using all of their force, it makes
it very difficult for you to do anything. So, yeah,

you just added like a hundred and eight pounds to
your workout, right exactly. It's like best awaited best on Yes,
a weighted best that's moving and trying to manipulate my body.
So she put up a really good fight. I'll give
her a lot of credit. And I honestly like there
was that point obviously I throw the ball and like,
let me just get it away from us and let

me break free from her. And when I realized I
wasn't gonna be able to do that. It was just
kind of like all right, like here we go, we're
getting up. We're just gonna move the bodies. And I
think after that round, when I realized she put up
such a good fight, I went into full soccer soccer
mode like we used to. I used by defense and
soccer and used to like side tackle people. You can't
really put your arm out, you can only kind of

hip check them for when you're playing the ball, and
so I just went into soccer mode. I like played
the ball. I used my body as like a defense
mechanism to get her away from me. And as soon
as she started to grab me, you know, I just
like kind of pushed her down and moved forward. And yeah,
that's kind of the way the way it went. That
is how it went, Tory, That's exactly what happened. Yeah,

And I gave her a big hug after and two. Actually,
and honestly, when I apologize to her, it wasn't because
I'm sorry I won. It's like I'm sorry that it
had to be like that, because I just know, like
she was so defeated. Imagine calling somebody out in a
physical elimination you know you're not gonna win. I could
tell as we were walking up to the bathrooms we

were changing, she was kind of talking to me like
a normal person at that time, like we had like
little conversations. She was asking like, do you think we're
gonna need to wear at elbow hads or helmets or
something like that, and we were having normal conversations. But
she didn't do that to me before. So I'm realizing, like,
if she's talking to me like this, she's probably realizing
like this isn't going to go the way she wanted.
And so I apologize because I at the end I

smashed her face in the dirt. But that was all
in the game. It wasn't really like an intentional clearly
you're not mean like that. No, No, I'm not. But
I'm proud of you. Let's talk about this what I'm
not proud of? Yeah, so I know. Emmam, Well just
just went in. Now it's the guy's turn. They have
to vote down the line. You have to choose between

you're one of your closest friends and the guy that
you're emotionally attached to, right which this is a feeling
that you get with everybody who live with. I mean,
it's not like you begin to love people and it
just happens naturally in this very unnatural way of meeting people, right,

And I slept, me and a mammal slept in bed
together every night, like on that little ass bunk. We
would cuddle every night, like he and I. We had
such a close bond, and I think I really downplayed it,
but the truth is, like we were the only two
people in that room at that time. Casey and Nannie
had moved into another bedroom, Emmy was over in the
other house with the other guys, and so literally the
only people in the main house were me and a

mammal in that room and Nannie and Casey in another room.
It got in the room, Yeah, it got very so
like I felt that feeling of like going home after
that elimination and to an empty room in an empty bed,
which is not something I was I hadn't had in weeks.
So I was in like a really bad mindset. And
I watched this back and I've apologized to Devin, like,

I mean probably eighteen times now, and he's like over it.
At this point, He's like, Tory, I get it. Things happen,
I forgive you, and I just couldn't be more thankful
that I have a friend in him, because watching that back,
it's like it's gonna hurt his feelings, you know, and
it's really difficult. So I'm just so thankful that he's
shown me such forgiveness. And it was like you had
no restraint. It was like somebody else was moving your body.

I seriously was just not operating in my as the
best version of myself. I wish I could go back
in time and just shut the fuck up. I wish
I would have gone over there and just literally taken
my head and put it behind the bleachers and not
watched it because I couldn't. He should have probably put
you in time out. You should have got a time out. Yeah,
and I get it. I'm going to get a lot
of heat for that, And honestly, it's fine. You don't

have to overapologize, like I get it. All do shit
fucking things sometimes the truth is though something like that,
like I'll never do that again. And if I do
that again, then you can say it's a part of
my character. But I hope that people just recognize that
I've made a mistake. I feel really bad I'm never
going to do it again, so you know, hopefully I'll
be able to tell yeah, I'll be able to grow
from this, and I definitely will. I just feel terrible, yeah,

because friendships and relationships are different, and you know how
relationships are in the house, but you know that your
friendships are the ones that you do have, are solid
and go beyond the show. So yeah, I mean for future. Yeah,
it was the worst possible thing. I wish a mana
wouldn't have picked Devon. I mean I was screaming it,
don't pick Devin. You know, you shouldn't if he if
he wouldn't have picked Devon, I probably would have helped
him really, like would have actually screamed the answers, you know,

like I knew, I knew the entire puzzle, but I
wasn't going to do that because obviously Devin's like, don't
help and I'm like, you're right, I shouldn't. This is wrong.
So well let's move on. You're gonna be okay, and
this is venting with Tory. Thank you. I'm so sorry.
We accountable. You're a good friend and yeah, I appreciate you.
That's what we do. Yeah, So now on the on

the on a happier note, you have made the final
and looking at it, you have a really really good chance. Thanks. Yeah,
Like I want to say thank you to all my
doubters out there who think I'm bad at puzzles, because
coming in, say in third on those two big puzzles
in there, aren't bad. No they're not. I mean you
came in first for the girls, right, both times, both

times for the girls. I mean we are going up
against CT and dev and puzzles. It's gonna be hard,
very hard. Dave and Dave face off puzzles. I think
I think a final should just be a bunch of puzzles. No, no, no,
I don't, No one, no one thinks that. And he said,
I would you and you and Devon would swimming? Swimming?
Do that in puzzles the whole time? Maybe a bike ride.

Maybe a bike ride. Well, you know, we start off
with this very short puzzle, which is interesting that this
kind of sets the tone. It's going to be very
checkpoint based. But I can tell you going forward, there's
a lot of long runs coming up. The first one
was a very short checkpoint. It was just to get
you in that helicopter. And then it was to get
you to that swim, and then again on those sea
bobs and the sea bob. Yeah, I can't believe they

came back, Thank god, because that's that swim looked awful. Yeah,
the swim was awful, but it was it felt kind
of good. The water was really clear and beautiful and
like you could appreciate that. But you're still in the final,
so you're the swim. The swim, I mean, the whole
thing must have been like at least three hundred meters. Okay,
well that doesn't help me at all. Okay, eaters doesn't
help me. Okay, like like I only know that by foot.

Oh well, I guess you know what Anisa just me
is stupid, Like I only know it by foot. It's
the same distance whether you swim and are walking or
it's okay, yeah, it was a it was a decent swim,
and then that's a pretty decent swim. Yeah, but once
we started that hike, I mean that it doesn't even
do a justice. That was very hard. Did anybody run

up the hill? Oh yeah, your leg muscles are cramping.
I mean it was it was really intense and it
was really hot out. We were really sweaty. There was
a heat wave in Croatia at that time, so we
were all just like guzzling our camelbacks down while we
were doing that, um and then we pull up to
this second puzzle and it's that wire puzzle again. We've
seen that. I think it was on like the sixth

episode of this season, right, I think it was right
after you left, Anissa. Yeah, I really would have liked
that one. So that was the one that CT won
the first time. CT won that episode and to watch
him struggle that on that one, and then he struggled
on this one, right, and Devin crushes it. And then
it's funny because when Devin runs away and he goes
to stand on his podium, he starts screaming, it's a purge.

It's a purge. Hurry up. So now the fear really
kicks in. Everybody thinks it's a purge. So yeah, he was,
and then CT gets up and goes and then yeah,
it was. It took a while for everyone else to finish,
like it was very difficult because the thing about the
wires is they're stapled on and sometimes it looks like
one can connect to one and you can build it

one way, but then the staples kind of throw you off.
So it's a difficult puzzle. Do you think Production would
send me one? If you're listening Production, if you could
send me a puzzle not assembled, and I will I
will then put it together and see if I a
time myself do it sounds like a boring thing, but
if they am I doing on a Friday night puzzling?

Wire puzzles? Wire puzzles? Yeah? Well then we have this twist.
Now it's not a purge. We are forming teams. We
have the Purple team, Purple Diamond, and we have Orange Diamond.
I love it. How do you feel now now you're
going to be in a team again and you have
a badass team, a badass team. Yeah, I mean, listen,
I'm not sleeping on the Orange team either. Casey Nannie,
Kyle Nelson, all fighters, all hustlers, like of course, they

will get the job done. I am absolutely not sleeping
on them. But I do think I just think your
chemistry works better with your team. I am. I am
very close with my team. So you know, obviously me
and Devin we squashed our beef. And you hear him
in the interview say, you know what I love to worry.
I'm gonna forgive. Like it's just you know, speaks to
his character and kind of person he is, and he's like, yeah,

let's put it behind us and fucking do this final. Well,
when it comes to the final, it's like, you know what,
I gotta work with you. I'm not gonna sit here
and be angry, right, I've mountains to climb, right, exactly,
And honestly, we're great teammates. So let's put our ship
beside behind us, and let's put our ship beside us. Yeah,
split our ship right beside us. Yeah. Oh man, Well,

you know what I was at that final, But there
was also somebody there at that final, and that person
is about to get interviewed because we have TJ Lavin
coming on this episode, guys, and we're going to dive
into the nitty gritty of it with him and talk
about his experience on the challenge as well. So make
sure you stay tuned because TJ is coming up next.
The needy, greedy, as Nellie t would say, all right, guys,

welcome to our favorite part of the episode where we
get to introduce and interview somebody very special. Today, we
have the only person who's hosted the show for as
long as he has. An incredible BMX rider, a legendary person,
The one and only TJ Lavin. Thank you so much
for coming on the show. TJ, thank you so much.
Appreciate it. TJ and dogs. Yeah, yeah, his dogs are

with him. It really is nice to have you, TJ.
I know that the listeners always want to know stuff
about you that we can't really answer. You guys can
answer anything, you know, what's up? No, I mean no,
we can physically answer, but there are things that I
just don't know about you to be able to answer it.
And then you have the super fans like do you
know where he lives? Have you ever been there? I'm like, no, no,
I haven't. Yeah, but now they know about where you

live because of that Cribs episode. Oh my god, what
the hell? Like I never got so much mail in
my life, Like it's so crazy. I don't know what happened,
Like my address got out and it was it's it's everywhere.
It's it's unbelievable, Like stacks and stacks of mail that

like will you sign this card? And they're they're mostly
just challenge cards, and they used to be BMX cards.
Now it's challenge cards and crazy. It's crazy, It's really crazy. Wow.
I'm like, oh, man, so I hope they send them
with a return envelope. That would be a pain. Now
they do. It's all self address damped envelopes back, so

it's not it's seriously like a couple hours of work
whenever and some carpual tunnel. Yeah, that's really nice of you.
We get it done. Yeah. Well, obviously people love you
so much because you've been a part of the franchise
for so long. I mean people know when they see
a helicopter, when they see some really cool car pull up,

it's you popping out of it. I mean, you've been
a part of the show for ever. What brings you
back after season after a season, because you've also done
All Stars too, So like what is it for you
that you're like, Yeah, this is my jam, you know what?
Every time I am out and about and wherever we're at,
like Iceland or wherever Croatia, I sit there and I

think to myself, like is this real life? Like when
how is this really happening to us right now? And
like sometimes I'll I'll be able to ride a motorcycle
wherever we're at, or ride ride a helicopter or whatever,
and it's just like, dude, this can't be real, and
it really it is. So I just I just keep

the ball rolling and I just be appreciative and just
whenever it stops, Okay, it stopped, but it was awesome,
you know what I mean. So I just keep on,
keep on keeping on. That's it. I mean, I feel
like you'll be here till you're on like medicaid, like
that life alert bracelet. I mean, I'm right there with you.

So I'm gonna get my life Alert bracelet and I'm
probably gonna accident prone, so I probably will wear it
on any challenge coming out. It's fine, I'm fine, yeah whatever. Yeah, dude, Okay,
that's what you do. All good. I'm with you on
the traveling though, Like I think Croatia was probably one
of the most beautiful places that we've ever been to.
How do you feel like it compared to the other

challenge season. I mean, I loved it. I absolutely loved it.
The town I stayed in was Rovene, and it was
it was so sick. I lived in Rovene and like
it was like La la land Man, I just walked
down to the town every day, got coffee and hung
out and chilled and then I got some lunch that

you know wherever. However, if all my days off, I
would just go down to the town, walk around, get
some miles in, then get some coffee, then get some
more miles in and get some lunch. Then it was
it was unbelievable. Like I was like that, I can't
believe this is my life right now, and it's like
I want I want this to be my life for real.
So like I would love to buy a place here

and there. It's just so sick. It's just so sick.
The place is amazing. Is that where you started your
five K day? Yep? Wow that aspired me to start running.
I hate it, but thank you. Yeah. Every day, I
mean I just got done right now, Like it's every
day I do it, and I just I'm so happy

that I did it. And like the first mile sucks
every time, Yeah, every single time. I hate it. Every
time the first mile, I'm like, this is the worst.
Goddamn I Dad, I don't know what I'm doing. Dude,
Why am I doing this? Why am I doing this?
Why couldn't I just chill, and then it just gets

better and better, like every mile gets better and you're like,
oh my god, I'm almost done. And then you're hauling
ass and you're like, yeah, like sometimes I'll even go
four or five miles. Wow, it's yeah, it's crazy. Yeah.
The other day, I just ran in my flip flops
and street clothes. Yeah, I just started. I started right,
I started running and I was like, all right, I'm

just gonna see how far I could go in these clothes.
And then I felt good and I was like, oh,
it feels good. I just kept going and I was like,
I'm gone running. Well, now that everybody has your address,
maybe they should send you some good running Sneakers couldn't hurt,
you know what I mean, doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt.
Flops don't hurt either, So I think that they might

start to ye for a while. You're right, yeah, let's
get into this episode. So tonight is the night of eliminations,
which is a huge shock to all of us. I
mean I remember being on that stage not feeling great
about it. Can you tell us what it's like to
sit on these big twists? Do you enjoy keeping all
of us on our toes, you know what. Yeah, it's fun.

And like especially when when somebody says something completely that's
not right and not real, it makes me laugh even harder,
Like I'm like, oh, okay, you know you know what
i mean, Like yeah, yeah, everybody knows everything right, And
like like Jordan is notorious for that, Like he'll say
something and you're like, oh, where the hell did you

get that? Like or car Marie used to do it
a lot like this is gonna be that. You're like, dude, no,
that's not that's not even close, you know what I mean?
Or good try, but it's not you know what I mean?
And so those are always fun. But uh, like when
somebody gets it right on the head, I'm like, damn,
that was pretty good, Like how that was? You know that?

But I think Cam knows everything. Yeah, she's somebody who's
really good at calculating the game. She goes off, she
goes pretty good. And you know who else is really
good at its CT? Yeah, yeah, he keeps it closer
to the vest. He doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't really
announce it, you know what I mean. He's not. He
is here, he is. He'll he'll say something in private

and it's spot on and and everybody's like, dude, look
what CC just said. And I'm like, holy shit, how
do you know that? They're like, he doesn't It's crazy. Yeah.
I think when played these games for so long, it
starts to become like you can't figure certain things out
that I think the newbies don't know yet. Yeah, I
don't know. I want to know though. Amanda's down there.

Do you think did you think she was gonna pick Tor? No?
I thought that was the stupidest pick in the whole world.
There's no way that Why would you pick her? She
didn't like me? Did you know that she like head
beef with me? Like? Do you get filled in on
that behind the scenes drama? Not really, not too much
because I'm not really interested in it, you know what

i mean, Like, yeah, I don't really know. I don't.
I don't because because the next season, you guys might
be friends and teammates, and like why fall into that
that stuff, you know what I mean? So it's like
they're probably next season. I mean, what am I talking about?
Next challenge? You might be teammates or friend who knows,

So it's no reason for me to be involved in
any of that stuff. So I just try not to
pay attention too much to that I get the night
befores or whatever, like uh and I read, I read
or listen to the um the night before is, and
like pay attention to what they're saying and what they're

doing and how everybody's moods gonna be, so that I
can like lay off or lean into somebody that needs
it or doesn't, you know what I mean. So but
try to try not to be a like trying to
be you know, helpful and cool if if somebody's going
through something or whatever, and that to me is more
important than if somebody's fighting with somebody or doesn't like

somebody or whatever. You know, Like I don't give a
shit about Josh and Bessie fighting to each other. You're
on the phone. Yeah, one moment they're like this, and
one moment they're like that. Okay. Yeah, it was an
intense night. I mean, like, obviously Amanda picks me. We
had our drama. But then the fact that Ammuel had
to go into two eliminations, was that the first time

in Challenge history that somebody's gone into two eliminations in
one night. Yeah, I think so pretty bad ass. The dude,
it's ship he is. To be honest, I mean it
was smart. I mean the two people you don't want
to see in a final, I think we're amen well
and C two. Yeah, and no one was calling CT out,
so I thought a Manuel was going to He had

like made references to it all season, like I'm gonna
call CT out. I'm not on the public CT would
have been done into. He didn't know it was a puzzle.
We didn't know what it was until we got down there.
So I thought, but wait, who knows. I have a
question to both of you since I wasn't there were
the puzzle boards out yet. No. Oh, so they pulled
him out after you picked your opponent. Yes, you didn't

know what you were doing until you picked your opponent.
So that's why we called it the Night of Mistakes
because it was like Logan picks a man while on
an endurance thing, Amanda picks me on something very physical,
and then a Manuel picks Devin on a puzzle. That
picking a Manuel for an endurance challenge is the biggest

mistake in challenge history. Like Steve t would have got
smoked on that, like anybody up there would have got
smoked on that. I don't care who it was, Like
I run five k a day and I probably would
have lost to that. Like that was that he was
so easy and he like floated over that thing, Like, yeah,
he's more agile than than Logan is. But Logan has

staying power running wise. I just think that the if
it were just like a running thing, I think Logan
would beat him. But if it's one a hamstring into
a what was it a rocket manual dances for six
hours a day and durance too, but a Manuel's better
with his body. Yeah, like his body. He knows how

to move every little muscle of it. Like he's got
such great I bet you know that. Okay, Sorry, keep
moving forward. Thanks all right, guys, we're gonna keep moving rookies.
Speaking of rookies, any is the only rookie to make
it to a final. What do you think about her season? TJ?

Did you expect that from her? Yes? I did, because
she like after the first, third, fourth episode, yeah, third
or fourth episode, I was probably like, damn, she's for real,
Like this girl's for real. And then I was like, man,
she might actually go and and everybody was like, yeah,

she might actually like she's real tough, and I was like,
I like her so yeah, I was. I was definitely
expecting her to do well. Yeah, she's a What did
you think about her calling you, mister t J? I
thought it was cute. Yeah, I gotta be honest, like
that was so cute, Like it was it was funny.
And when she calls the uncle CT like, she's cool,

she's funny, she's cool it whatever, dude, she really meant
that though. I feel like it's like an honor that
she was like mister TJ. Like yeah, that's how she
like looks at you. Yeah, that's so cute. She's so
she's so sweet too. She's very nice, very sweet. I
like her. She she is who she is, which I love,
like on apologetically like this is me. Yeah. Yeah, she

makes her an awesome challenger. Yeah. And then she freaks
out and cuts sick and throws stuff and tantrum's out.
Then you're you tell her like, dude, chill and then
she's like okay, sorry, you know, or if you just
let her have it. But then she comes back to
earth and she does whatever she does. She's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah,

I just think we'll see her in the future. We
had some good rookies this season. I mean there were
a lot of them who were most excited to see
because we had so many people from so many different places.
Emanuel's one of my my guys. I love that dude. Um,
he's he's probably the coolest out of everybody that we met. Um.

He was sick, Like his style was sick. His swag
was sick. Like, dude was just everybody was tripping on
logan um and I I was too. I was like
the most beautiful man one yeah, like Jesus Christ. And
but but I the swag thing that eman had, Like,

I was like, oh, dude, Like that dude is real,
real cool. Like he shows up with the crazy mustache
and like crazy glasses and whatever else he had on
going on. I don't remember exactly what he had, but
it was bad. Yeah. And like and a couple of
the guys that were on the backstage rather and they're

they're like pretty hip dudes. They were like that dude,
that that's the dude. Now. I was like, yeah, that
guy's sick. Yeah he's awesome. It was really hard to
watch that elimination. I felt like really shit watching this episode.
TJ I don't know if you got to watch it back,
but this is the episode where you see me like
kind of struggling while Devin and a Manuel are going
between that puzzle, and I like kind of hint to

a Manuel. Definitely, No, you did. Definitely you were. There
were sign language you did. All that was saying put
five in the middle. I mean, like, it's so hard
to watch this back as a competitor, because I think
you can attest to how much tension there was that
night TJ. Because obviously we all thought we were going
to the final and then it was like everybody line
up and say a name right now, and the tension
just goes through the roof. And I think that like

after going into elimination and then coming out and then
seeing two of my people that I loved go in there,
it was like really difficult. So can you could you
sense how difficult it was for everybody that night? Like
what was it like to watch it and be there
in person? Um? Yeah, I could sense it for sure,
But I think it was mostly you, Like no one
else had the problem, Like everyone else was like that cool,

why we're going to get rid of some badass competitors
and we can deal with this. We can deal with that.
But you had a very meditation like your It was
a very hard thing for you to deal with, no
doubt about it. I don't think I handled it the
best way, but you know, at least Devin forgave me,
and I think that moving forward is the only thing
that we can do. So and she never contend again.

She can do the good. Honestly, It's so funny because
this is that episode for me where I'm like, oh,
I get to win an elimination, which is something that
you should love that episode of yourself. But I can
the fact that that happened between me and Devon and
a Mammo, it overshadows the elimination because I can't even
be happy about it because I hate how I responded
to that situation. But yeah, whatever it is, what it

is just gonna it's so hard, sucks. It was it
boring for you, t J to see that the Vets
had this alliance for probably the first time where we
just kept throwing in rookies a little bit. I don't like.
I don't like it when it's like when they keep
throwing in when it's a sleeper essentially, like that's what

I call it like, oh my god, Like this is
such a whack decision, Like it's so easy to see
that what you're doing and why you're doing it, But
at the same time, you put yourself in their situation.
They're just watching it out for each other. They've been
here before, they did, they know what the game is.
It's like you can't blame them. So it is boring

and it does suck, but at the same time, you
can't be mad about it. Well, we tried to make
it interesting on Double Agents, just making some really weird
decisions and throwing everybody in and then this seasons so different. Yeah,
we really tried to be like, hey, let's I think
we were all just trying to protect each other so
somebody can make it to the damn final. There were
a lot of people that were sick of like leaving

before or not making it there, like this is our show,
especially for people like me and CT. I mean, we've
been around forever. This is our show. So it's like, well,
how do we keep it our show? And we have
all these intruders from Big Brother and Survivor you know,
are you the one? You know? Yeah, hey let me alone, bro, No,
But I think essentially there is part of that, and

then like and then just trying to sit like, Okay,
I agree to be in the bet alliance just so
I can make it to the end. I think that's
what it ended up becoming. Do you think like that, TJ.
Since you're the handler of the game, you're going to
put rules in place in the future so that there
can't be another alliance. I don't know, you never know.

I mean I can't say. I can't say we're gonna
make rules for certain game play. But that does happen.
I mean, it's it's happened before you know, and be honest,
like it's not exactly only my decision. So right, well, yeah,
that's when you throw in skulls and ship when people

skate to the final and you're like, you know what,
we're gonna put skulls and don't put skulls in anymore
if that's a future thought. But I don't. I don't
know how I feel about it. Yeah, I think it's
pretty good. One. Actually, I want to skate. I want
to skate to a final, Yeah, exactly, I never have,
so I would like to skate. Yeah, but you're really
good at eliminations. And so I think, yeah, thank you,

thank you both, Thank you guys both. Thanks well. In
between the night of Eliminations, when like we were all
freaking out, mostly me, but everyone was also kind of
freaking out, what were you doing? Were you just like chilling?
Do you go like behind the set and like drink
a coffee, like text on your phone? Like what do
you do during that moment? For us? Yeah, that's what
I do. I go back, I go behind the set,
and I text on my phone and I drink coffee.

Exactly what I do. Like what you just said is
exactly what the hell is going on and you see it,
so you know that's how you said that, Like you know, oh, okay,
he's back there, texting on his phone and drinking coffee.
Good for him. You know. My favorite part is when
it starts raining and they're like keep your hoods down
and you get like eighteen people with umbrellas over you. Yeah,

well while we all wet dogs in like very unflattering outfits.
So I honestly like, I just don't know what to
say to that. You're like, I get paid, I get listen,
I got a job to tell. I don't know what
to say to that you're right, Yeah, what was that?

You might be under umbrellas. But like you've you've come
on the podcast before and you mentioned how you run
the finals sometimes with us, you know, you have to job,
so it's not like you're not in the mix of
all this and I'm one no, And you know, like
for for the last the last final that we just did,
I ran the final. You did it the day before.

I just ran it. You're lying. No, Yeah, I ran
the whole thing. How'd you feel? You're lying? I did
pretty good? I did pretty good. I would have done
okay if you had to do all the like the
stops except for anything that you have, if if there's
no eating on any challenges, then I would definitely be forgot.

Yeah you're not great with that, but I'm not a
good eater. I'm not a good eater. And then I
and everyone, especially with my life like being vegan and
all that, like and they have like all kinds of
like balls and cow balls, and they need those balls,
Like what are we doing? Like that's exactly how I feel.
I don't think we should ever eat animals reproductive organs.

I just went vegan. I just went vegan three months ago,
and I'm really hoping that I'm going to be able
to stay vegan if I come back, like Tory, They're
gonna make you eat something weird. Well, it goes against
my dietitian restriction. My dietitian restriction, my dietary restriction. That's it. Okay,
we're just going to drop that, all right. At the
end of this episode, we see that we turn back

into cells. So we went from individuals and pairs and
cells this entire season. Which do you prefer to see
the most? What do you think is the most fun
to watch? I think teams are fun. I think it's
real cool. Yeah, I like I like when when everybody's
teamed up and uh and you know, like teams of

three or four or five, Like that's cool to me
because like like it feels good to have teammates, and
it's fun to have teammates, and it's I don't know,
it's just pretty cool. And and and if somebody has
the strength and somebody doesn't, you know, like CT with
the puzzles, it's just a monster. And then you know,
well with the with the um running and endurance is

a monster. And like it's cool to see people different
people have different skills and have them put together and
who's driving the bus? You know, it's awesome. I love it.
I love teams because we don't see it anymore and
like you really get to fight for something, like you
feel like you really joined. This is weird because you
could switch all the time and now you have a
purple and an arnge cell mh. And on the purple

cell you have Devin ct Tory, Emmy Range of Kyle Nelson,
Nanny and Casey. I want to know who would you
join to run the final um Who's who's again to
Devin ct Tory and Emmy, which I think that's the same, Yeah,
that would be the one ct is just like Tommy's

Emmy's a monster. Cts a monster. You can you can
deal with with either of the other two of no problems.
Like they're they're doing really well, you know, so they
like Devin. Devin surprised me. He really he's coming. He's
getting in better shape now, he's like actually doing something
about making it happen, you know what I mean, Like, oh, yeah,

he's not just talking anymore. He's doing so I'm very impressed. Yeah,
he had a good turnaround season and I think he
really needed it because a lot of people talk shit
on Devin, but the guy's got names under his belt.
He took up in Anna's, He's taken out West, He's
this is his second final now and he killed it
this season. So I agree. I think he like needed
this season to show people that he actually can walk

the walk to But I think also it's just easier
when people have already named you as something to just
kind of be it. So if he's been called the
name like the mouth for so long of just like insults,
being smart, like whatever else, did you kind of fall
into that category. I don't think you just all of
a sudden become athletic. I think it was always there.
It's a matter of like believing in yourself, and when
you get older, you just stop giving a shit so

you perform. Bet that's true. So true, it's a number
of things. And yeah, and also like there's more to
fight for. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it was awesome to
watch him this season. The other thing that I want
to mention, just talking about this season in total, is
that the five hundredth episode of the Challenge was on
this season. So what does it like to be part

of such a milestone T day. Um, it was it
was cool. It was very cool. Um yeah yeah, I
was like, holy crap, that's that's awesome that we've really
been doing this for that long. That's awesome. Um, they've
been doing you know, the show has been around for
that long. Um. I think I'm like like hosted three

D and something of them, which is pretty crazy. Maybe
for maybe maybe I'm not sure. We're gonna find out.
We're gonna fact check that and we'll get back to you.
It's from ten so so I started on season eleven
and now we're on thirty seven, right, So, so eleven
to thirty seven Like, um, when it comes to that stuff,
then all stars as well. So I think I've done

thirty seasons. Hih, that's crazy. Give take it's amazing. That's
pretty cool. Yeah. Do you have a favorite Do you
have a favorite memory from this season, either on or
off camera? Mmm? You know, I don't you know what
the UMU. When I walked in that elimination for the

first time, I couldn't believe how grand it was, Like
it was huge and awesome, Like wow, I was like, Ryan,
this is the coolest, the coolest setup that I've seen
for an elimination in a long time. And then the
stairs set up and the big massive clips everywhere and

everything that they it was just sick. So I think
that was probably that was a very pleasant surprise. I
love that. Yeah, the arena was beautiful. They work really
hard on all of those things. Yeah, they should work
on making those steps a little bit wider though, because
they were the scariest if you were an elimination just
standing there, like if your feet were over size eight,

you were off that thing. Yeah, that's true because I'm
in there, like I get there. I get there about
two hours before you, guys, so to do all the
clean reads, do all the stuff, and I'm standing for
like probably three hours before you because when I get there,
you know, and then I have to wait for like

a half an hour, four or five minutes to get
everything dialed in. Then they set up all the cameras,
They set up all the stacks for the for the
the cameras and the tripods and everything else, and then
we do the clean reads. And then when we do
the clean reads, I'm standing the same exact place as
I always am. And then and then they get all
the cameras out of there, everything's done, and then everybody

comes in and it's like another hour before you guys
are all standing there and I'm doing it again live,
and so all of that time is me standing. So
it's it's like, yeah's it is a lot. It's it's
it's pretty cool, but it's a lot. It's like, I mean,
there'd be sometimes I'm standing seventeen hours or ten you

know why. Yeah, sorry about the step comment. So it's
funny because like they you think that I'm just drinking
coffee and whatever. I am doing that as well, and
I am whatever. But I've been there forever and people
don't realize. And then when when it's when it's over, um,

we do the clean reads after as well, so because
because you got to get some sun, and it has
the match, has the match the final. So everything that
I say at the end, like all right, now go
get some rest before I say go get some rest
or whatever, So all that stuff about talking about the
game and everything else, talking about the winners, all that

stuff has to be said again clean. So so you
guys take off, you go on the bus. I'm there
for another hour, wow, like standing and and saying the
same shit over and over again, you know whatever. Ever,
so that that's kind of like, yeah, like part of
it as well. So you got to do the clean
reads and then the ad libs and pickups and all

this stuff. And then and then I got to like
like do some of the ad libs like whatever I
maybe said, you know, so like if I said something
crazy during the game, if they didn't catch it live,
which they do normally, but if they didn't, then I
got to re say that as well, or say the

good job you won or good job you lost or
whatever like those things as well. So it's it's there's
a lot of little little stuff too, so it's kind
of it's very it's a very long busy day challenge days.
Do they ask you at the end um like are
you prompted to be like, hey, we'll see hopefully we'll
see I'm sure we'll see you in the future, or

see you never or or we'll definitely see you in
the future. Yeah, Like fans, look, fans use your voice,
my dad does as clue like like they're going, yeah, no,
they don't. They don't say that. I just say what
I hope okay, okay, like those are all real feelings. Wow. Yeah,

if it's something I hope to see you never, Like
I'm not I'm not not kidding, Like I really hope
to see you never at that moment. At that moment,
of course, of course, the feelings change. I really don't
not want to see somebody ever again, Like I don't.
I don't have a person like that in my life.
But uh, but I do definitely feel that way at

the moment. I'm like, dude, are you joking me? Like
you're leaving for real? Like over that or whatever, you
know what I mean, like give it a rest? And
then yeah, so yeah, yeah, like what about you? Yeah?
So do I so do? I. I think it's super
real And it keeps this all very in touch with
the game and also keeps me on my toes because
I'm like, fuck, I don't want to you today, I say,
say some funk shit to me. Man, damn it. Is

there anybody? Thanks? Is there anybody that you were rooting
for this season that didn't make it as far as
you would have wanted? You know, Logan? I really liked Logan,
like I thought he was just a sweetheart. He is
a very very cool guy. He's very like anything that
that was cool. He would do. You know, like how

he acted, how he talked, how he you know, what
he said. Everything. The guy was just he was the
epitome of cool and I liked him. I hoped he
would go for I hope he would go in the
final and do really well, so that that was somebody
that I didn't like to see get eliminated. But at
the same time, he chose his fate. Man, he picked

the wrong guy for the wrong game. Yeah yeah. I
mean he made a deal with Devin before he went
in there. He told Devin like, hey, I'm not going
to call you out, and he's a man of his word,
so I respect it. I think he knew walking up
to it when he was going to call out a
man well that it was not going to be his
best bet. But I think he was like, if I
go against my word, then I'll never get that back.
So he'll beat He'll beat He'll beat m Devin in

that game. Yeah yeah, you would have won. Yeah yeah.
I mean we got to see so many international competitors
this season. So how cool do you think it is
that the Challenge is pushing forward to become this international powerhouse.
I think it's the coolest thing that we could do possibly.
I love it and I want to see more and

more of it. I think the more people we have
from around the world, the better culture. And and everybody
learns a lot because the best education is travel. And
I think that when when people are we we're bringing
so many different cultures into the living rooms of Americans.
And I like that. Yeah, So where do you hope

we go next? Where would you like to go? Where's
your ideal location for the challenge? Um? I really really
would love to go back to Whistler, like Whistler, Canada.
I love Whistler. I love it old, yes, but I
love I do well in it, but I don't like it. No,

I just really really love it. I don't love cold either,
but but we can go there in the summer that's fine.
But I just love the town. It's just so Yeah,
you get to experience it like we are stuck in
the house, especially with like everything going on the house,
and Whistler was crazy, like crazy house, like such a

sick cabin. You wouldn't even believed that. Like, but anyway
that that's neither here nor there. That was awesome. Um.
I would love to go back to Croatia. UM. I
love Panama, of course is awesome. Um any town that
we that we visited in Panama. I don't really love Bocas.
I mean, it's cool, but it's it's so desolate. It's

like I don't want to do an island. But um, Queenstown,
New Zealand, I love well, I love Queenstown. That was
just a beautiful, beautiful place and that was like la
la lamb for me as well. Rovene. I would love
to move back to Rovene, just live there for a while.

Any anything in Europe I think would be great. I
love Europe. I love everything about it. I like small roads,
I like cobble stone, I like the buildings with character
and charm. Yeah, no, stucco, it's just awesome. Yeah, I agree,
I was. I think Croatia was probably one of my

favorite spots, but also Argentina when we ran that final there,
I'm dirty thirty. Yeah that place was incredible. Yes, yes,
oh my god, There's been so many incredible places and yeah,
I can't wait to see where it goes in the future.
Um TJ, we have one last question for you, so
thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're
not going to keep you too much longer. But we

need to know. This season is called Spies, Lies and Allies.
So from the season as a whole, who do you
think is the biggest spy, the biggest liar, and the
biggest ally. Ah, that's impossible for me to answer. Um, yeah,
I I so the biggest ally. The biggest ally would

probably be Emmy. Yeah, she's the biggest ally for sure.
She like she dies for her partners. She's down, you
know what I mean, she is like, that's my partner.
You know, I'll kill you or I love you, come on,
you know what I mean. Like, she's she's definitely the
biggest ally. Um, the biggest spy. The first person that

comes to my mind is Devin. But I don't know.
I don't I don't really know that stuff too well
because I haven't you know what I mean, I'm not
really in there with you guys, so I'm not I
don't know who's lying either. I'm not sure who's lying.
I don't think judging from the outside looking in, maybe uh,

FESSI might be the biggest liar situation. I don't know,
because I just overheard people saying, you know, FESSI MESSI
Fessi and all this stuff. So I assume that he
would be the biggest liar of the season for that stuff.
But I don't I don't think he's I think Fessie
is a little bit misunderstood. I think he definitely he

could be. He could be a very strong competitor. And
I I hope to see him come through, you know,
I hoped him to see him breakthrough and and actually
gain because I've got a lot of hate mail about
him and and and I'm like, dude, he's actually a
really nice guy. Like, yeah, but we'll see. But if

I had to pick somebody, I guess I would those
would be the ones. It would be Emmy, Devin, and Fessi. Yeah,
because I don't really know. You know though, that it's
an impossible question for me to ask you. You you'd
have to ask somebody that was living with the people
to see and then and then b and then watches
the show to know what who did, what said what

to them? You know what I mean. So, because nobody
lies to me about stuff or everybody, that's probably so yeah,
you can't really lie to you. No. Awesome, Well, thank
you so much, TJ. We really appreciate you coming on
the show. The fans love hearing from you. Is there
any place that we can have them follow you or
support any cause that you're working with right now? Let
us know so that we can blast it out there. Okay. Well,

I work with Project one fifty, which is a charity
for youth, homeless youth in Las Vegas, and it's a
very cool company and they're they're not nonprofit, of course,
it's Project one fifty. Um, they're there who I work
with a lot um. And then I work with the
A Games as well, which is uh, just look it up.

It's uh, it's for with the FEAT people for Families
Effective Autism Treatment, So it's for just two kids, but
it's it's here in Las Vegas, and it's amazing company
as well. And and they both of those companies are
the ones that I love and I work with. And
then anything to do with animals and helping animals, I'm in.

I'm in, you know what I mean. So that's it.
I just really love that. So thank you so much. Yeah,
thank you so much. Thanks for hearing from you again.
I can't wait to see your face hopefully. Thank you, Hi.

It is always always a pleasure. Hearing from TJ. I
know that all of you out there listening enjoy hearing
from him as well. He's just so humble and so
awesome and really loves his job and it just makes
our jobs even more fun. So thank you, TJ. Now
back to my friend Tory. Tory Events. Yeah, Tory Events.
It's like Tory Lanespatry events. Yeah. Yeah, I know what

I'm trying to do. Maybe I want to know some
secrets from this episode. I got some share some confidential
stuff with me. I have a secret. So the puzzle
that we just did, that wire puzzle, we all pull
up there, we get there. Devin finishes the puzzle. I'm
going to say in ten minutes. The next person to

finish the puzzle was CT. Probably in fifteen minutes. The
next person to finish the puzzle was me in forty
five minutes. There was that much of a time gap
between me and CT and Devin. Devin crushed that puzzle.
Crush it. Yes, forty five minutes between me and in
first place and what about you and last place? So

last place. Our group ended up finishing closer together because
we were actually taking so long that production came out
and added pieces into our puzzle boards because we could
not none of us could figure it out. Yes, they
had to help us, swear to God. Oh so you're
not going to brag that you could do puzzles anymore.
But I did the first puzzle really fast. So and

I still I still even we all we all got help,
and I still finished before everybody that ALP. So I'm
still gonna take a little credit for myself. But every
single person got help, every single person except for Devin
and CT. Oh so not every single person. Devin and
CT were in front of everybody by yeah, well I

would have mauld came over. I actually helped emmy. I
left my puzzle board there open, and that's why she
like looks over and she's she's like on it. But
m that was a really hard puzzle. I'm telling you,
those wire puzzles are no joke. I'm going to practice. Yeah,
so that's my secret for you. But yeah, this episode
a lot. It was a roller coaster to watch, very

up and down elimination win, big loss for you know
how I feel in my heart about what I did
to my friend and then also starting the final and
then ending off in cells. So I'm really excited going forward.
I can promise you it's gonna get really intense and
the outcome is crazy. So I really hope you guys
stick around and watch next week. It's pretty insane. Anissa,
thank you for being a co host. I love you

so much. Where can we follow you? And send you
nice things? Thank you? I would like everyone to send
me a wire puzzle. She's like, I gotta do it now,
I do. I actually may order run only when we're
done recording. You can follow me at Anissa MTV. That's
a n e s a MTV on Instagram. That's probably

the only place I play. And Tori, where can we
find you? You guys can find me at Toria Underscore Deal.
I know that you probably want to talk some shiit
to me, but keep it to yourself. I'm already doing
it in my own head, all right. And send your
listener questions to us, because if we can answer them,
we totally will. And make sure you listen every Thursday
as we go behind the scenes of The Challenge Spies,

lies and allies, and then join us Fridays as we
pull back the curtain on season two of The Challenge
All Stars Yes Only on MTV's official Challenge podcast,
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