March 6, 2024 • 32 mins
Alex and his students meet with a former FBI behavioral analyst and assistant public defender/former assistant district attorney to talk about their findings.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A group of high school students.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
High school students Elizabethan High School students started a project
to research a string of unsolved murders.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Their research led to the identification of the killer.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 5 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few
leads or.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold any normal.
Speaker 5 (00:25):
There's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out
to be accurate.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Redhead Killer profile male Caucasian, five nine six, two hundred
and seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed, IQ above one hundred, most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 8 (00:51):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them, it does not mean that they
deserve to not.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Be so anymore.
Speaker 9 (00:57):
What if this guy's still alive?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Like, what if becomes after us?
Speaker 8 (01:00):
You're gonna kill me?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Who's a year?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode nine,
Studying Up.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm Jeff Sheene, a.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Television and podcast producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker,
Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arno. In twenty twenty, I came
across a story about a group of high school students
who set out to investigate a series of unsolved murders
in their community. It was an incredible story that here
at KAT Studios we felt needed to be explored further.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
All Right, So this morning, me and Marley are just
sitting here in my car. It is seven fifty two,
six fifty two. It is six fifty two in the morning,
and we're just sitting here talking about different stuff. And
we're about to go in here and meet with mister Campbell,
and we're actually gonna get to present to a former
FBI behavior analysis, which is really cool, and talk about
(02:05):
the case. So we're just really looking forward to that.
It's kind of crazy because we went to a bunch
of football games together and thinking about Elizabeth Lamont, one
of the potential victims of Jerry Leon Johns. She actually
went missing from a football game, and we went to
numerous football games together and not really how to care
in the world, but it just happens as quickly as that.
(02:26):
So it's really crazy to think about the connection we
have with these girls because we are young females and
majority of these women were young women, and we're very
close with in age and lifestyle. Even you know, this
could be any of us or any of our friends,
and that's just really crazy to think about. So we
really feel connected with this case, these cases, and we
(02:48):
really feel like these women deserve justice because this could
easily be one of us.
Speaker 10 (02:52):
Yeah, and it's sometimes you don't really think about, like
when you're in the moment at the football game, you're
not really worried about stuff like that, and I'm sure
the women were either, But this happens and it takes
you off card.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Hello there, Hello Alex Campbell. It's good to meet you.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Thank you for coming by.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Did your haircut get better since the last time I
saw you?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I think you said?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
And we have like the Captain's table, the.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Honored guests, Joey Strickler and Ryan Curtis introduced themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm Joey Strickler.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I retired from Sulva County Sheriff's Office two years ago
and I was the Captain Noble Criminal Investigations.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
My last biggest case that I.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Had over there was I'm sure y'all have heard of
the Evelyn Boswell murder case. And just to tell a
little bit of my background as far as in preparing
me for what I did. I have a bachelor's degree
from Etssue Criminal Justice, and I spent my whole career
of thirty years, thirty plus years at the Sheriff's office
and done I guess a little bit of everything that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Was over there, from patrolling.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
To criminal investigations to of course as in the staff
and command end of it. But one thing about it
that interested me when the TBI actually called me to
call you, was that when they were telling me you
were doing this. I have worked on a couple of
cold case homicides. They only had two in Solvan County,
and so I worked those two cases, and I know
(04:35):
the pitfalls and the things that you run into and
the issues and things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I can honestly say that I think I know who's done.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Both of them. Never be able to prove it but
for because of certain reasons. But anyway, that's that's basically
where I came from. I just law enforcement background and
with the Solvan County Sheriff's Office, and I was supported
great opportunities.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
To go to some really specialized school.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I've went to the FBI National Academy, which is a
ten weeks school in Quanticoe, Virginia, and that's where I studied.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Profiling and things like that. So that's just a little
bit good about me. I'm Ryan Curtis.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Currently, I'm an assistant district public defender right down the
road and I run the public Defender's.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Office essentially in Johnson County. But I was an assistant
district attorney for about a decade.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Graduated law school at Appalactian School of Law in twenty eleven,
went to ECSU, So a lot of the experience I
had in learning about these things was in the district
Attorney's office, and a lot of the experience I got
learning about the forensic side of things was not going
to these academies where he's getting like first hand knowledge.
It's instead relying on people like him to help me
understand it. And also TBI special agents, which are I'm
(05:46):
sure part of this, and misanalysis. You know, when you're
an assistant DA, you just deal with everything. So there
were some murder cases I've worked on, rapes, vehicular homicides
to the gambit, also tiny things like shoplifting or drive
unsuspended that you kind of gained some perspective on. In
my time, I've worked in all four counties. I had
jury trials in all four counties in this district, and
(06:09):
I ran the Uniquid County DA's office for four years
Jonesborough a couple of years, was in Johnson County.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
For years, in Carter County for three years.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So any of the serious crimes that happened here in
the last few years before I left the DA's office.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
In August, I was part of. So they were a
handful of murders and shooting, says, there always seems to be.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I'll tell you what's interesting hearing about his background though,
when he started in law enforcement. I love when officers
come from patrol to investigations.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You just get more, I think absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But there wasn't a code of database when you started
what's the new, So there was no DNI comparison or
DNA comparison or anything like that. So the perspective you
must have on seeing how these kind.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Of cases get solved is probably incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
One of my cases that I really took heart to
was a nineteen eighty four murder.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I was a high school senior in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The thing that got me about that is if things
would have been done differently in nineteen eighty four, by
the standards we have now, that case we've been sought back.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Then yesterday, very well, I don't have to be in court,
really don't have to be at work.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's a great day. How about you all? They got
a big ball game tonight, don't you.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
It's a homes coach and y'all beat them last time.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Was it close basketball season? Yes?
Speaker 6 (07:34):
Yeah, So both of these girls play basketball. They're both
really good. Also great students find people. So, in case
I didn't mention it, we don't have this as a
class this year. So they do this work on their
own and we meet at seven am before school, which
for a teenager coming an hour early is quite a
quite a any credit for that, So they don't get
(07:56):
any credit.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They just well, there's nothing better than taking from So
I'm one, that's day, and there's nothing better than.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Working on homicides and coming to a conclusion. Oh yeah,
it's best and better than that. Yeah, yeah, I get excited.
Me just find some days.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
If I was just standing over here out of your
way and let y'all dig your thing.
Speaker 9 (08:15):
I'm a junior.
Speaker 10 (08:16):
I'm sixteen, and I played basketball with probably since three
third grade. I wouldn't say she probably is my best friend.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Probably she is my best friends.
Speaker 10 (08:26):
I've always kind of found an interest in this stuff.
I mean, my mom like watched stuff about it together
a lot.
Speaker 8 (08:31):
And it's kind of.
Speaker 10 (08:32):
Crazy cause all of you consider cat like everything I do.
But I really really really enjoy like learning about this
kind of stud It was gonna like diving in and
how you want perspective.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
On a seconds. Yeah, well we've been Friendsville before ever.
Speaker 8 (08:46):
But it's really funny because I've always been kind of, like,
I guess, like the more outgoing of the two of us,
and I've always been interested in the niche, little weird things.
And true crime has definitely been a big interest in
mine since I was like sixth grade probably, and I
don't always listen to True Crown podcasts. That we'd be
warming up for a basketball game and I'd have True
Crown podcasts on them, but it's like, are you okay.
(09:08):
I'm like, yes, I'm okay, and she would always get
like it's so annoyed me. She's like, turn that off,
turn it off, and then one day she's.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just like, no, keep playing.
Speaker 9 (09:17):
I'm like, I know so, but that's something.
Speaker 8 (09:19):
We've kind of bud been able to find a lot
of interest in the last few years.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yes, that's been like such a driver.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
Yes, kind of yes, and it's really like it it
you rely get to YouTube and you're just like, you
don't wanna listen to music anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You just wanna listen to a true ground podcast.
Speaker 9 (09:38):
It's relaxing.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I had to stop.
Speaker 8 (09:39):
I used to listen to you to go to ben
stop terrors. I would wake up and it'd be like
a shadow of my room. I got, yeah, I can't
do this, but yeah, I'm seventeen a junior. Also played
basketball that takes up.
Speaker 9 (09:53):
Literally all of our time.
Speaker 8 (09:54):
So it's basically school basketball murders.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
They're looking they're not committed, correct, yes, quick clarify.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
So me and Morley have kind of been doing some
research this week between the known victims of Jerry Leon
Johns and potential victims. So I've been working on Tracy
su Walker and Morley's been working on the DeSoto County
Jane Doe. Basically, what we've done is we just went
through and we've made a victim profile for his two
known victims, and then we're just kind of doing a
comparing contrast between Tracy su Walker and the DeSoto County
(10:29):
Jane Doe Linz was the survivor of jay Leon Johns,
and Tina Farmer, who is a confirmed victim of jay
Leon Johns.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Murder one on one, Riley and Marley walked
mister Strickler and mister Curtis through their profile and explained
why they believed Jerry Johns was the Bible Belt strangler.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
None of them were buried or covered up.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
All of them were just left on the side of
the road.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
And I found a mistake there that Linda, that last one,
I actually have no binding, but she was actually found,
do know that, So I made a small mistake there.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Every one of them were found off of a major.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Interstate, just right off except for one, and she was
found about seven miles from an interstate, but she was
found seven miles from another victim that was right on
an interstate and matched everything else. But she was just
off of a road, but it wasn't a major interstate.
It was aside, but any any questions, other questions looking
at that, The strangulation by ligature seems to be important
(11:54):
and we're going.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
To look more at that.
Speaker 8 (11:56):
So this is kind of where things take a turn.
The police retested items found from Tina Farmer murder and
found Jerry Johns's body fluides on it. So Jay Leon Jones,
this is obviously the man that we think committed these murders.
And Tina Farmer, she was killed and they had not
identified her killer until new DNA evidence, like you said,
(12:18):
had come out in twenty nineteen, and Johns had died
in prison while serving time for the attemptive murder of Lindaville,
which was two months after Farmer was murdered. So she
was obviously his survived victim, the only survived victim that
we know of, and they were able to arrest him
because he stole her car. He thought he had killed her,
dumped and then stole her car and she happened to live.
(12:41):
He was arrested on March six, nineteen eighty five, for
the attempted murder of She was a redheaded exotic dancer
and prostitute in Knoxville.
Speaker 9 (12:49):
Interesting fact.
Speaker 8 (12:50):
Also, Jerry Leon John's trucking company was based out right
the Rise side of Knoxville, and it was actually started illegally,
and so we don't have a lot lot of records
from where where he was trucking, which can be hard
for determining was he in the area at this time
when this person was killed. All this stuff, but all
of his records his trucking company was very very legal.
(13:12):
So he bound and gagged her before taking her to
the side of the interstate and choking her to what
he thought was death, and then he dumped her. She
was able to gather herself got out on the interstate.
She was actually blind for three days after he had
choked her because he choked her so hard, and she
stumbled across the interstate naked blond and was able to
(13:32):
be taken by the police and they were able to
find him via her car, but he saw her and
then this is who Jerry Leon Jones is. He was
born in Tennessee, but him and his family moved around
between Rockford, Illinois, East Tennessee and Houston, Texas area. So
obviously that's a lot of ground anyway, let alone being
(13:54):
a trucker. He's thirty seven years old this time, and
he has trucking company.
Speaker 9 (13:59):
He's called Rebel Trucking.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
He had a very extensive criminal record since he was
fifteen years old. Started out his little stuff and obviously escalated.
He was sentenced to seventy four years for the kidnapping
and attempted murder. This is poor Document's treasure troph These
documents showed the specific bindings and ligatures that he used
on her, and these help us build a timeline for
where he was what he was doing at the time.
(14:23):
It provides us with TBI interview notes which are very
very helpful, and we kind of get to see what
kind of person he was getting inside his psyche. And also,
you know, when we're looking at different crimes, we think
trying to look for a trigger. Maybe. So him and
his wife were half sister, half sister, and half brother
and they got married.
Speaker 9 (14:42):
Obviously, people are telling him, you know, you can't do this,
Like if you have a child, it's gonna be messed up.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
Even though that takes generations, people are just take your child,
gonna be messed up if you have a kid.
Speaker 9 (14:51):
They end up having a son.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
The son gets cancer at three years old and ends
up passing away, and everybody's telling Jerry, you know, this
is your fault. This is because you did the this
because you got married to your half sister, your child God,
and obviously any grieving parent this is not something they
want to hear in a mentally unstable man.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
It's untelling the kind of anger.
Speaker 8 (15:11):
That he built up in his resentment. And obviously he
has an anger towards women in these crumbs. And the
relationship with his mother, as I understand, was very, very strange,
different and his half sister, his wife was red headed,
and his mother was also red headed, and.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
The marriage dissolved here or so after the death of
the child, she actually moved back to Illinois, and when
she left in nineteen eighty four, we get six murders
in about nine months. Yeah, where he's driving not just
with no boss, but now with nobody at home. And
basically he and he and his brother Areo's traveling around
and a bunch of dead women's children exactly the same way.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Where he's traveling for about nine months through.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
One thing that normally when someone is strangled with the ligature,
whether it's a road, whether it's like that appears to
be maybe a t shirt T shirt. If you're defendant
here is right handed. They tended to tie a knot
in a right handed fashion, or a left handed person
will tie one in a left handed fashion.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So that's one things to look at her, and so
he said he was right handed.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Riley spoke about Tracy Sue Walker.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Tracy Sue Walker, she was the main victim that I
focused on. She was just identified in August of twenty twenty,
so very very recently, and she was dubbed baby Girl
Jane Doe for until she was identified because she was
so young. They estimate she was between fourteen to sixteen
whenever she was murdered, but they found out that.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
She was fifteen, so right on it.
Speaker 8 (16:51):
But she disappeared from Typical Neo County, which is in Indiana,
as she read there, and her body was recovered in
Campbell County, Tennessee, which is almost nine hours away. So
she disappeared from a mall. She was last seen with
a friend at Typican.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
Neue County mall.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
And she was a kind of troubled child. Her mom
had reported her as running away tip twice before that,
so they thought that.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
Maybe she'd just run away. Well not one hundred percent sure, but.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Her body was found nine hours away in Gamble County.
The most interesting part, another victim, Tina Farmer, who we
know was killed by Jerry Leon Johns, would disappeared from Indianapolis, Indiana,
which is about an hour.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
From typican Nee County.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
But their bodies were found less than seven miles apart
in Campbell County. So how did two girls disappear from
about the same area nine hours away and their bodies
are recovered within miles.
Speaker 9 (17:46):
Of each other, earily similar?
Speaker 10 (17:49):
And they were all found on trucking roads between his homes,
his family homes, trucking hubs, all significant areas that would
be related back to him. And although he spent many
years in prison, all of the big were killed when
he was not in custody.
Speaker 11 (18:04):
I agree he's probably good for those two for sure,
just because of the location of the where they're missing
from and then the location of where their bodies were found,
I would agree. So, I mean you're headed in the
right direction. I think I think your your profiles of
your victims are are well done. And I've always said
you have to be able to try to identify identify
(18:26):
the victims and to do a timeline on the victims first,
which is what you're doing that will lead you to
your potential suspects or subjects.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
So in summary, he puts himself at every secondary crime scene.
But once again he didn't do it, but he was there.
He was convicted onto the crumbs with direct evidence in
the DNA, and his timeline shows the only time that
he was not in jail is when the murders happened,
and the murders that fit this m O and signature
stop right after his arrest.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
So I think the judgement actually probably let a good
bit of its end, the caveat being he wasn't prosecuted
for a moment.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So like they've not been substantiated in a court of law,
and getting a conviction based on a pattern of behavior
would be a lot more powerful than you know.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We put this together. He's dead.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You got to understand on the law enforcement side, the
motivation to solve some of this is their triadging there's
there's a new murder happening in that county, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
This week this month.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Despite that, mister Curtis had some good news.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's an incredible profile eighty.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
It's this very goods that.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Yeah, how confident would you be if you had all
that information and you went to a grand jury that
you could get a true brand VID?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
This solid? Definitely. I'm thoroughly impressed. Thank you, guys. I've
done a great job, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know, although I was binding that there's a real
good chance that they should be able to get some
kind of take DNA.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
From and nowadays, for sure, nowadays you did wonderful, great job.
Speaker 9 (20:06):
Thank you, Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Let's stop here for another quick break murder one on one.
The following week, the club back back up.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Well, good morning, ladies. How are y'all doing doing good?
Speaker 9 (20:37):
How are you? Well?
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's early and I'm a little bit tired, but not
bad for a Monday. What y'all do this weekend?
Speaker 10 (20:43):
I didn't really do very much on Saturday, but on
Sunday I went to church and basketball practice.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Didn't you have a big ball game Friday night?
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Well, Friday night counts the weekend.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Yeah, after three Friday counts, I'll have the ball game.
Speaker 8 (20:56):
Go.
Speaker 9 (20:56):
We won?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
And then Riley, you might have had something extra special
on Friday.
Speaker 8 (21:02):
Yeah, I won homecoming for the junior class.
Speaker 9 (21:07):
So that was kind of cool. I'm just glad I
didn't fall or pass out.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
But yeah, I had a really busy weekend. So that
homecoming was on Friday, and then Saturday, me and my
mom went to a Covenant college in Georgia for a
recruitment visit to watch them play and talk to their
coaches and everything. So that was pretty cool, and I
took up pretty much the whole day Saturday, and then
yesterday I went to church and went to basketball practice
(21:33):
and then went back to church.
Speaker 9 (21:34):
It was a very impact few days.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
As it was, And so we were presenting to a
former assistant district attorney now a defense attorney and retired
homicide detective, and so I would just love to get
your all kind of thoughts and reflections on how.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Do you think it went.
Speaker 9 (21:52):
I think it went really well.
Speaker 10 (21:54):
I was very nervous going into it, I will say that,
but it was really cool.
Speaker 9 (21:59):
It was cool to take it.
Speaker 10 (22:00):
Someone else is like perspective on all the work that
we've been doing and working so hard on, because like
it's just kind of us three sometimes and it's good
to get like an outside viewpoint on everything, like hoping
that they'd like it and think it was good work
and they did.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So yeah, okay, and then uh, role, what about you?
Speaker 8 (22:16):
Yeah, I have to agree with Marland, and I'm really
nervous going in, but then to see like people who've
been there, done that and seeing a lot of different
cases and stuff to just validate, you know, what we've
been seeing and what we've been where we've put.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Like our time and effort and energy, and to see them.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Kind of like pat us on the back, which we
don't do it for that, but it's really nice and
really reassuring to have that.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
I wasn't nervous going in because I know that you
guys have done some stellar work, but I was curious
to see, like you said, I'm a teacher, you're some students.
What do professionals in the field really think about the work? Yeah,
a homicide detective, it's his job to gather evidence and
put together evidence for the DA and to see what
(23:04):
he thought about our evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
And also I thought it was interesting to hear.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
From the former assistant district attorney about what he thought
about the evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Could it actually go to a grand jury? Was it sufficient?
How we covered all the bases?
Speaker 6 (23:16):
And do you guys remember anything about maybe some of
the stuff they'd said about the work you'd done.
Speaker 10 (23:20):
I think that the former assistant district attorney said how
there had been cases in court that had won with
significantly less evidence than what we had.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Yeah, what do you think about that?
Speaker 8 (23:32):
I thought that was pretty crazy, because I mean, like
sometimes it can get discouraging because there is little information.
It's like, oh, we have this Jane Doe, we have
no clue how she lives, like kind of feel like
we're grasping a straws and stuff. But just to see,
like the information we do have is so valid and
could potentially pull up in court, and there's trials that
(23:55):
have been held with significantly less evidence. Like Morley said,
that was really reassuring to the work that we've been
doing and really just shows that we're doing something that
actually has substance, Like it's not just for our own
enjoyment or for our own passion that we have, like
this could actually mean something to some jury or some court.
Speaker 10 (24:14):
I thought it was just really reassuring, and like Riley said,
like everything we're doing has a purpose and it shows
that like this could really help somebody in I know
that if it was like my family member or something.
And I saw these people doing it, and these people
are saying this about their work.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
It made me feel like really good.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Okay, so now we have a problem. It's a good problem,
but it's a problem.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
And we had the same problem five years ago when
the students did the work and they created the profile
and the profiler said this is excellent.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
I wouldn't disagree with anything. Well, what goods a profile
if it doesn't get out to where people can use it?
Speaker 11 (24:49):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
So that's why we decided to have the press conference.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Well if we just let it stop here, then it
doesn't go forward to help anybody.
Speaker 8 (24:57):
I don't want to just give up on this or
like the think we've taken as.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Far as we can go, because these women still don't have.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
Justice, and there's still so many of them that aren't identified,
and so many I think can be identified.
Speaker 9 (25:11):
So I'm really not.
Speaker 8 (25:12):
Sure what the next step should be, but I definitely
know that this isn't where we should end.
Speaker 10 (25:18):
About you, Marlen, I still want to be able to
help the families and give them closure.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about that too, and we
did try to invite the TBI. Most of every one
of these cases just about has been taken over by
the TBI. If they were in the state of Tennessee,
they have been. There's a couple that are just outside
of the state that have not been. And to be honest,
I've had very limited success in getting in contact with
(25:43):
the people who are responsible for those cases. So we
invited the TBI to come and listen to the presentation
that you had on Friday. However, they said that every
single agent they had was too busy and would be
busy the rest of the year. And it's January m
so and I understand they are busy. Crime ever sleeps
(26:03):
right the graveways up just no good. But I think
that my question for myself was if detectives feel like
this is good enough to go to the DA, and
the DA feels like it's good enough to go to
a grand jury, and since the person we feel that
did this is dead and all you can do is
take it to a grand jury, get the true bill,
(26:25):
and then consider the case closed, the question for me
is why aren't DA's doing this or why aren't law
enforcement agencies turning this over to the DA's so they
can and go forward and I think the only people
we have left to present to would be the media.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
And there's several reasons why.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
Number One, last time we got a body identified, excuse me,
three bodies identified, and one of those cases was solved
within a year or two.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
So maybe we'll get the same luck.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
Because when you put this out there, you're gonna get tips,
You're gonna have people calling in, You're gonna have true
crime sluice looking on the internet, looking at missing people,
looking at you know, the DeSoto County Jane do And
maybe we can get a few more identifications through the
media because it will get picked up on.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
The media and he'll get out to people.
Speaker 9 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Number two, maybe other people can ask different agencies what
they're doing with the cases. Sometimes they're just triaging cases.
The most important ones, the ones that have a lead,
the newest ones, ones that parents are calling.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
We work on those first.
Speaker 6 (27:25):
The ones that are forty years old and they're cold
and we have no information and nobody's calling.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
You know, it just has to be the last one
we work.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
So what do y'all think about taking this to the
media and letting the media get the word out for us.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
I think that's definitely a good idea.
Speaker 8 (27:40):
Probably our next best step as far as furthering this
and seeing what we can do, because other than that,
I don't think that there's a better alternative.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
So I know how to call a press conference. I've
done it before one time five.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Years ago worked pretty well. What do you think about
getting a.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
Whole of TV and news media from each of the
areas where these women were found or went missing from.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
We only know where two went missing from.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
We could maybe contact that media and then tell them
we're going to have it and then just let them
show up. The ones that can't make it, we can
email them. The last time five years ago, one of
the local news agencies actually live streamed it so they
could watch the live stream, they could get a media
kit of the information, and then they could do whatever
(28:30):
they wanted with it. So if they want to ask
their local law enforcement or their local DA's, or if
they just want to get the word out there and
let people in the public see it and go to
work on it on their own time, then I think
that would.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Be maybe something we could do. I guess the big
question is when do we want to schedule it?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
Homecoming Queen and basketball games and college tours.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
The all easy people. So let's think about a time
we can do it, and then let's set it. Maybe
give ourselves about two weeks.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
I think what we need to do is go back
through the information, see if we want to reformat anything,
because it's different presenting to the group we presented until.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
On Friday and the media group.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Also, they probably need to put together a media packet,
which we can have them sign up for when they
come in and then we can email it to them
after it's over. We can maybe have some hard copies
available to them, maybe that to hear something. But that'll
give us a couple of weeks to do that work. Yeah,
and of course give them some time to plan on
being here if they can be here, right, No, feeling.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
Good, feeling good on excite them feeling.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Good and excited.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
How many games you'll have left?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
Oh gosh, we're are halfway through conference.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
Play regular season games.
Speaker 10 (29:40):
There's probably five or six left, okay, and then we
have districts and regionals and all that takes.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Like a month, even though it's less games.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
Oh wait, you're saying you're gonna go all the way
go a month into the planning.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
That's what I like. I like the positivity.
Speaker 8 (29:56):
Hopefully this week we get bumped to third in the state.
Oh because team that was raked ahead of us beats Okay, exciting.
Speaker 9 (30:03):
Yeah it's a little over.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Yeah, that's right, y'all. Just hang in there, though. It's
going to get more overwhelming when the world realizes. I
think that the quality of the work you guys have been.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Doing this would be cool too.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
So it's kind it is really cool seeing like the
people are recognizing, like you said, because a lot of
times it's just been us three in here, you know,
and then other people from the outside of like, wow,
this is actually really good work. And I think people
are really surprised too when it's high school students, and yeah,
that's just been rewarding to see. It's kind of well,
(30:36):
this was all for a purpose, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
All right, Well, I hope y'all have a great day.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Get back with me, either see me in the hall
or send me an email and let me know about
that day. A right, and I'll call a friend of
mine and we'll see what he thinks about that day
and if he has any insight on maybe what we
should do or how we should do it and we'll
go from there.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Alrighty awesome, ladies, y'all have a great day.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Okay, more on that next time. Murder one oh one
is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong,
Andrew Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor
(31:20):
Powell and Gabriel Castillo, Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey
Cooper Wasser. Music by Vancor Music. Murder one oh one
is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
A group of high school students.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
High school students Elizabethan High School students started a project
to research a string of unsolved murders.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Their research led to the identification of the killer.
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Investigators now have an answer to a thirty four year
old question.
Speaker 5 (00:17):
Once you start getting a few tips, or a few
leads or.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Few identifications, then the cold case isn't so cold any normal.
Speaker 5 (00:25):
There's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
Speaker 6 (00:28):
Everything that the students predicted through their profile turned out
to be accurate.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Redhead Killer profile male Caucasian, five nine six, two hundred
and seventy pounds, unstable home, absent father, and a domineering mother,
right handed, IQ above one hundred, most likely heterosexual.
Speaker 6 (00:46):
There is no profile of this killer except for the
ones the students created.
Speaker 8 (00:51):
Just because some of these women no longer have people
to speak for them, it does not mean that they
deserve to not.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Be so anymore.
Speaker 9 (00:57):
What if this guy's still alive?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Like, what if becomes after us?
Speaker 8 (01:00):
You're gonna kill me?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Who's a year?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
This is Murder one oh one, Season one, episode nine,
Studying Up.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I'm Jeff Sheene, a.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Television and podcast producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker,
Courtney Armstrong, and Andrew Arno. In twenty twenty, I came
across a story about a group of high school students
who set out to investigate a series of unsolved murders
in their community. It was an incredible story that here
at KAT Studios we felt needed to be explored further.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
All Right, So this morning, me and Marley are just
sitting here in my car. It is seven fifty two,
six fifty two. It is six fifty two in the morning,
and we're just sitting here talking about different stuff. And
we're about to go in here and meet with mister Campbell,
and we're actually gonna get to present to a former
FBI behavior analysis, which is really cool, and talk about
(02:05):
the case. So we're just really looking forward to that.
It's kind of crazy because we went to a bunch
of football games together and thinking about Elizabeth Lamont, one
of the potential victims of Jerry Leon Johns. She actually
went missing from a football game, and we went to
numerous football games together and not really how to care
in the world, but it just happens as quickly as that.
(02:26):
So it's really crazy to think about the connection we
have with these girls because we are young females and
majority of these women were young women, and we're very
close with in age and lifestyle. Even you know, this
could be any of us or any of our friends,
and that's just really crazy to think about. So we
really feel connected with this case, these cases, and we
(02:48):
really feel like these women deserve justice because this could
easily be one of us.
Speaker 10 (02:52):
Yeah, and it's sometimes you don't really think about, like
when you're in the moment at the football game, you're
not really worried about stuff like that, and I'm sure
the women were either, But this happens and it takes
you off card.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Hello there, Hello Alex Campbell. It's good to meet you.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Thank you for coming by.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Did your haircut get better since the last time I
saw you?
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I think you said?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
And we have like the Captain's table, the.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Honored guests, Joey Strickler and Ryan Curtis introduced themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
I'm Joey Strickler.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I retired from Sulva County Sheriff's Office two years ago
and I was the Captain Noble Criminal Investigations.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
My last biggest case that I.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Had over there was I'm sure y'all have heard of
the Evelyn Boswell murder case. And just to tell a
little bit of my background as far as in preparing
me for what I did. I have a bachelor's degree
from Etssue Criminal Justice, and I spent my whole career
of thirty years, thirty plus years at the Sheriff's office
and done I guess a little bit of everything that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Was over there, from patrolling.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
To criminal investigations to of course as in the staff
and command end of it. But one thing about it
that interested me when the TBI actually called me to
call you, was that when they were telling me you
were doing this. I have worked on a couple of
cold case homicides. They only had two in Solvan County,
and so I worked those two cases, and I know
(04:35):
the pitfalls and the things that you run into and
the issues and things like that.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I can honestly say that I think I know who's done.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Both of them. Never be able to prove it but
for because of certain reasons. But anyway, that's that's basically
where I came from. I just law enforcement background and
with the Solvan County Sheriff's Office, and I was supported
great opportunities.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
To go to some really specialized school.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I've went to the FBI National Academy, which is a
ten weeks school in Quanticoe, Virginia, and that's where I studied.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Profiling and things like that. So that's just a little
bit good about me. I'm Ryan Curtis.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Currently, I'm an assistant district public defender right down the
road and I run the public Defender's.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Office essentially in Johnson County. But I was an assistant
district attorney for about a decade.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Graduated law school at Appalactian School of Law in twenty eleven,
went to ECSU, So a lot of the experience I
had in learning about these things was in the district
Attorney's office, and a lot of the experience I got
learning about the forensic side of things was not going
to these academies where he's getting like first hand knowledge.
It's instead relying on people like him to help me
understand it. And also TBI special agents, which are I'm
(05:46):
sure part of this, and misanalysis. You know, when you're
an assistant DA, you just deal with everything. So there
were some murder cases I've worked on, rapes, vehicular homicides
to the gambit, also tiny things like shoplifting or drive
unsuspended that you kind of gained some perspective on. In
my time, I've worked in all four counties. I had
jury trials in all four counties in this district, and
(06:09):
I ran the Uniquid County DA's office for four years
Jonesborough a couple of years, was in Johnson County.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
For years, in Carter County for three years.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
So any of the serious crimes that happened here in
the last few years before I left the DA's office.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
In August, I was part of. So they were a
handful of murders and shooting, says, there always seems to be.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I'll tell you what's interesting hearing about his background though,
when he started in law enforcement. I love when officers
come from patrol to investigations.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
You just get more, I think absolutely.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
But there wasn't a code of database when you started
what's the new, So there was no DNI comparison or
DNA comparison or anything like that. So the perspective you
must have on seeing how these kind.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Of cases get solved is probably incredible.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
One of my cases that I really took heart to
was a nineteen eighty four murder.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I was a high school senior in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The thing that got me about that is if things
would have been done differently in nineteen eighty four, by
the standards we have now, that case we've been sought back.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Then yesterday, very well, I don't have to be in court,
really don't have to be at work.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's a great day. How about you all? They got
a big ball game tonight, don't you.
Speaker 6 (07:27):
It's a homes coach and y'all beat them last time.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Was it close basketball season? Yes?
Speaker 6 (07:34):
Yeah, So both of these girls play basketball. They're both
really good. Also great students find people. So, in case
I didn't mention it, we don't have this as a
class this year. So they do this work on their
own and we meet at seven am before school, which
for a teenager coming an hour early is quite a
quite a any credit for that, So they don't get
(07:56):
any credit.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They just well, there's nothing better than taking from So
I'm one, that's day, and there's nothing better than.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Working on homicides and coming to a conclusion. Oh yeah,
it's best and better than that. Yeah, yeah, I get excited.
Me just find some days.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
If I was just standing over here out of your
way and let y'all dig your thing.
Speaker 9 (08:15):
I'm a junior.
Speaker 10 (08:16):
I'm sixteen, and I played basketball with probably since three
third grade. I wouldn't say she probably is my best friend.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Probably she is my best friends.
Speaker 10 (08:26):
I've always kind of found an interest in this stuff.
I mean, my mom like watched stuff about it together
a lot.
Speaker 8 (08:31):
And it's kind of.
Speaker 10 (08:32):
Crazy cause all of you consider cat like everything I do.
But I really really really enjoy like learning about this
kind of stud It was gonna like diving in and
how you want perspective.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
On a seconds. Yeah, well we've been Friendsville before ever.
Speaker 8 (08:46):
But it's really funny because I've always been kind of, like,
I guess, like the more outgoing of the two of us,
and I've always been interested in the niche, little weird things.
And true crime has definitely been a big interest in
mine since I was like sixth grade probably, and I
don't always listen to True Crown podcasts. That we'd be
warming up for a basketball game and I'd have True
Crown podcasts on them, but it's like, are you okay.
(09:08):
I'm like, yes, I'm okay, and she would always get
like it's so annoyed me. She's like, turn that off,
turn it off, and then one day she's.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just like, no, keep playing.
Speaker 9 (09:17):
I'm like, I know so, but that's something.
Speaker 8 (09:19):
We've kind of bud been able to find a lot
of interest in the last few years.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yes, that's been like such a driver.
Speaker 8 (09:28):
Yes, kind of yes, and it's really like it it
you rely get to YouTube and you're just like, you
don't wanna listen to music anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You just wanna listen to a true ground podcast.
Speaker 9 (09:38):
It's relaxing.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I had to stop.
Speaker 8 (09:39):
I used to listen to you to go to ben
stop terrors. I would wake up and it'd be like
a shadow of my room. I got, yeah, I can't
do this, but yeah, I'm seventeen a junior. Also played
basketball that takes up.
Speaker 9 (09:53):
Literally all of our time.
Speaker 8 (09:54):
So it's basically school basketball murders.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
They're looking they're not committed, correct, yes, quick clarify.
Speaker 8 (10:06):
So me and Morley have kind of been doing some
research this week between the known victims of Jerry Leon
Johns and potential victims. So I've been working on Tracy
su Walker and Morley's been working on the DeSoto County
Jane Doe. Basically, what we've done is we just went
through and we've made a victim profile for his two
known victims, and then we're just kind of doing a
comparing contrast between Tracy su Walker and the DeSoto County
(10:29):
Jane Doe Linz was the survivor of jay Leon Johns,
and Tina Farmer, who is a confirmed victim of jay
Leon Johns.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
a moment. Murder one on one, Riley and Marley walked
mister Strickler and mister Curtis through their profile and explained
why they believed Jerry Johns was the Bible Belt strangler.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
None of them were buried or covered up.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
All of them were just left on the side of
the road.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
And I found a mistake there that Linda, that last one,
I actually have no binding, but she was actually found,
do know that, So I made a small mistake there.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Every one of them were found off of a major.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Interstate, just right off except for one, and she was
found about seven miles from an interstate, but she was
found seven miles from another victim that was right on
an interstate and matched everything else. But she was just
off of a road, but it wasn't a major interstate.
It was aside, but any any questions, other questions looking
at that, The strangulation by ligature seems to be important
(11:54):
and we're going.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
To look more at that.
Speaker 8 (11:56):
So this is kind of where things take a turn.
The police retested items found from Tina Farmer murder and
found Jerry Johns's body fluides on it. So Jay Leon Jones,
this is obviously the man that we think committed these murders.
And Tina Farmer, she was killed and they had not
identified her killer until new DNA evidence, like you said,
(12:18):
had come out in twenty nineteen, and Johns had died
in prison while serving time for the attemptive murder of Lindaville,
which was two months after Farmer was murdered. So she
was obviously his survived victim, the only survived victim that
we know of, and they were able to arrest him
because he stole her car. He thought he had killed her,
dumped and then stole her car and she happened to live.
(12:41):
He was arrested on March six, nineteen eighty five, for
the attempted murder of She was a redheaded exotic dancer
and prostitute in Knoxville.
Speaker 9 (12:49):
Interesting fact.
Speaker 8 (12:50):
Also, Jerry Leon John's trucking company was based out right
the Rise side of Knoxville, and it was actually started illegally,
and so we don't have a lot lot of records
from where where he was trucking, which can be hard
for determining was he in the area at this time
when this person was killed. All this stuff, but all
of his records his trucking company was very very legal.
(13:12):
So he bound and gagged her before taking her to
the side of the interstate and choking her to what
he thought was death, and then he dumped her. She
was able to gather herself got out on the interstate.
She was actually blind for three days after he had
choked her because he choked her so hard, and she
stumbled across the interstate naked blond and was able to
(13:32):
be taken by the police and they were able to
find him via her car, but he saw her and
then this is who Jerry Leon Jones is. He was
born in Tennessee, but him and his family moved around
between Rockford, Illinois, East Tennessee and Houston, Texas area. So
obviously that's a lot of ground anyway, let alone being
(13:54):
a trucker. He's thirty seven years old this time, and
he has trucking company.
Speaker 9 (13:59):
He's called Rebel Trucking.
Speaker 7 (14:01):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
He had a very extensive criminal record since he was
fifteen years old. Started out his little stuff and obviously escalated.
He was sentenced to seventy four years for the kidnapping
and attempted murder. This is poor Document's treasure troph These
documents showed the specific bindings and ligatures that he used
on her, and these help us build a timeline for
where he was what he was doing at the time.
(14:23):
It provides us with TBI interview notes which are very
very helpful, and we kind of get to see what
kind of person he was getting inside his psyche. And also,
you know, when we're looking at different crimes, we think
trying to look for a trigger. Maybe. So him and
his wife were half sister, half sister, and half brother
and they got married.
Speaker 9 (14:42):
Obviously, people are telling him, you know, you can't do this,
Like if you have a child, it's gonna be messed up.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
Even though that takes generations, people are just take your child,
gonna be messed up if you have a kid.
Speaker 9 (14:51):
They end up having a son.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
The son gets cancer at three years old and ends
up passing away, and everybody's telling Jerry, you know, this
is your fault. This is because you did the this
because you got married to your half sister, your child God,
and obviously any grieving parent this is not something they
want to hear in a mentally unstable man.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
It's untelling the kind of anger.
Speaker 8 (15:11):
That he built up in his resentment. And obviously he
has an anger towards women in these crumbs. And the
relationship with his mother, as I understand, was very, very strange,
different and his half sister, his wife was red headed,
and his mother was also red headed, and.
Speaker 6 (15:31):
The marriage dissolved here or so after the death of
the child, she actually moved back to Illinois, and when
she left in nineteen eighty four, we get six murders
in about nine months. Yeah, where he's driving not just
with no boss, but now with nobody at home. And
basically he and he and his brother Areo's traveling around
and a bunch of dead women's children exactly the same way.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Where he's traveling for about nine months through.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
One thing that normally when someone is strangled with the ligature,
whether it's a road, whether it's like that appears to
be maybe a t shirt T shirt. If you're defendant
here is right handed. They tended to tie a knot
in a right handed fashion, or a left handed person
will tie one in a left handed fashion.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So that's one things to look at her, and so
he said he was right handed.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Riley spoke about Tracy Sue Walker.
Speaker 8 (16:31):
Tracy Sue Walker, she was the main victim that I
focused on. She was just identified in August of twenty twenty,
so very very recently, and she was dubbed baby Girl
Jane Doe for until she was identified because she was
so young. They estimate she was between fourteen to sixteen
whenever she was murdered, but they found out that.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
She was fifteen, so right on it.
Speaker 8 (16:51):
But she disappeared from Typical Neo County, which is in Indiana,
as she read there, and her body was recovered in
Campbell County, Tennessee, which is almost nine hours away. So
she disappeared from a mall. She was last seen with
a friend at Typican.
Speaker 9 (17:06):
Neue County mall.
Speaker 8 (17:08):
And she was a kind of troubled child. Her mom
had reported her as running away tip twice before that,
so they thought that.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
Maybe she'd just run away. Well not one hundred percent sure, but.
Speaker 8 (17:19):
Her body was found nine hours away in Gamble County.
The most interesting part, another victim, Tina Farmer, who we
know was killed by Jerry Leon Johns, would disappeared from Indianapolis, Indiana,
which is about an hour.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
From typican Nee County.
Speaker 8 (17:36):
But their bodies were found less than seven miles apart
in Campbell County. So how did two girls disappear from
about the same area nine hours away and their bodies
are recovered within miles.
Speaker 9 (17:46):
Of each other, earily similar?
Speaker 10 (17:49):
And they were all found on trucking roads between his homes,
his family homes, trucking hubs, all significant areas that would
be related back to him. And although he spent many
years in prison, all of the big were killed when
he was not in custody.
Speaker 11 (18:04):
I agree he's probably good for those two for sure,
just because of the location of the where they're missing
from and then the location of where their bodies were found,
I would agree. So, I mean you're headed in the
right direction. I think I think your your profiles of
your victims are are well done. And I've always said
you have to be able to try to identify identify
(18:26):
the victims and to do a timeline on the victims first,
which is what you're doing that will lead you to
your potential suspects or subjects.
Speaker 10 (18:35):
So in summary, he puts himself at every secondary crime scene.
But once again he didn't do it, but he was there.
He was convicted onto the crumbs with direct evidence in
the DNA, and his timeline shows the only time that
he was not in jail is when the murders happened,
and the murders that fit this m O and signature
stop right after his arrest.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
So I think the judgement actually probably let a good
bit of its end, the caveat being he wasn't prosecuted
for a moment.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So like they've not been substantiated in a court of law,
and getting a conviction based on a pattern of behavior
would be a lot more powerful than you know.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
We put this together. He's dead.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You got to understand on the law enforcement side, the
motivation to solve some of this is their triadging there's
there's a new murder happening in that county, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
This week this month.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Despite that, mister Curtis had some good news.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's an incredible profile eighty.
Speaker 5 (19:33):
It's this very goods that.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Yeah, how confident would you be if you had all
that information and you went to a grand jury that
you could get a true brand VID?
Speaker 1 (19:44):
This solid? Definitely. I'm thoroughly impressed. Thank you, guys. I've
done a great job, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know, although I was binding that there's a real
good chance that they should be able to get some
kind of take DNA.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
From and nowadays, for sure, nowadays you did wonderful, great job.
Speaker 9 (20:06):
Thank you, Thank you for listening.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Let's stop here for another quick break murder one on one.
The following week, the club back back up.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
Well, good morning, ladies. How are y'all doing doing good?
Speaker 9 (20:37):
How are you? Well?
Speaker 5 (20:38):
It's early and I'm a little bit tired, but not
bad for a Monday. What y'all do this weekend?
Speaker 10 (20:43):
I didn't really do very much on Saturday, but on
Sunday I went to church and basketball practice.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
Didn't you have a big ball game Friday night?
Speaker 9 (20:51):
Well, Friday night counts the weekend.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Yeah, after three Friday counts, I'll have the ball game.
Speaker 8 (20:56):
Go.
Speaker 9 (20:56):
We won?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
And then Riley, you might have had something extra special
on Friday.
Speaker 8 (21:02):
Yeah, I won homecoming for the junior class.
Speaker 9 (21:07):
So that was kind of cool. I'm just glad I
didn't fall or pass out.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
But yeah, I had a really busy weekend. So that
homecoming was on Friday, and then Saturday, me and my
mom went to a Covenant college in Georgia for a
recruitment visit to watch them play and talk to their
coaches and everything. So that was pretty cool, and I
took up pretty much the whole day Saturday, and then
yesterday I went to church and went to basketball practice
(21:33):
and then went back to church.
Speaker 9 (21:34):
It was a very impact few days.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
As it was, And so we were presenting to a
former assistant district attorney now a defense attorney and retired
homicide detective, and so I would just love to get
your all kind of thoughts and reflections on how.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
Do you think it went.
Speaker 9 (21:52):
I think it went really well.
Speaker 10 (21:54):
I was very nervous going into it, I will say that,
but it was really cool.
Speaker 9 (21:59):
It was cool to take it.
Speaker 10 (22:00):
Someone else is like perspective on all the work that
we've been doing and working so hard on, because like
it's just kind of us three sometimes and it's good
to get like an outside viewpoint on everything, like hoping
that they'd like it and think it was good work
and they did.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
So yeah, okay, and then uh, role, what about you?
Speaker 8 (22:16):
Yeah, I have to agree with Marland, and I'm really
nervous going in, but then to see like people who've
been there, done that and seeing a lot of different
cases and stuff to just validate, you know, what we've
been seeing and what we've been where we've put.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Like our time and effort and energy, and to see them.
Speaker 8 (22:34):
Kind of like pat us on the back, which we
don't do it for that, but it's really nice and
really reassuring to have that.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
So I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
I wasn't nervous going in because I know that you
guys have done some stellar work, but I was curious
to see, like you said, I'm a teacher, you're some students.
What do professionals in the field really think about the work? Yeah,
a homicide detective, it's his job to gather evidence and
put together evidence for the DA and to see what
(23:04):
he thought about our evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
And also I thought it was interesting to hear.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
From the former assistant district attorney about what he thought
about the evidence.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Could it actually go to a grand jury? Was it sufficient?
How we covered all the bases?
Speaker 6 (23:16):
And do you guys remember anything about maybe some of
the stuff they'd said about the work you'd done.
Speaker 10 (23:20):
I think that the former assistant district attorney said how
there had been cases in court that had won with
significantly less evidence than what we had.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
Yeah, what do you think about that?
Speaker 8 (23:32):
I thought that was pretty crazy, because I mean, like
sometimes it can get discouraging because there is little information.
It's like, oh, we have this Jane Doe, we have
no clue how she lives, like kind of feel like
we're grasping a straws and stuff. But just to see,
like the information we do have is so valid and
could potentially pull up in court, and there's trials that
(23:55):
have been held with significantly less evidence. Like Morley said,
that was really reassuring to the work that we've been
doing and really just shows that we're doing something that
actually has substance, Like it's not just for our own
enjoyment or for our own passion that we have, like
this could actually mean something to some jury or some court.
Speaker 10 (24:14):
I thought it was just really reassuring, and like Riley said,
like everything we're doing has a purpose and it shows
that like this could really help somebody in I know
that if it was like my family member or something.
And I saw these people doing it, and these people
are saying this about their work.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
It made me feel like really good.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
Okay, so now we have a problem. It's a good problem,
but it's a problem.
Speaker 9 (24:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:37):
And we had the same problem five years ago when
the students did the work and they created the profile
and the profiler said this is excellent.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
I wouldn't disagree with anything. Well, what goods a profile
if it doesn't get out to where people can use it?
Speaker 11 (24:49):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
So that's why we decided to have the press conference.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Well if we just let it stop here, then it
doesn't go forward to help anybody.
Speaker 8 (24:57):
I don't want to just give up on this or
like the think we've taken as.
Speaker 9 (25:00):
Far as we can go, because these women still don't have.
Speaker 8 (25:03):
Justice, and there's still so many of them that aren't identified,
and so many I think can be identified.
Speaker 9 (25:11):
So I'm really not.
Speaker 8 (25:12):
Sure what the next step should be, but I definitely
know that this isn't where we should end.
Speaker 10 (25:18):
About you, Marlen, I still want to be able to
help the families and give them closure.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about that too, and we
did try to invite the TBI. Most of every one
of these cases just about has been taken over by
the TBI. If they were in the state of Tennessee,
they have been. There's a couple that are just outside
of the state that have not been. And to be honest,
I've had very limited success in getting in contact with
(25:43):
the people who are responsible for those cases. So we
invited the TBI to come and listen to the presentation
that you had on Friday. However, they said that every
single agent they had was too busy and would be
busy the rest of the year. And it's January m
so and I understand they are busy. Crime ever sleeps
(26:03):
right the graveways up just no good. But I think
that my question for myself was if detectives feel like
this is good enough to go to the DA, and
the DA feels like it's good enough to go to
a grand jury, and since the person we feel that
did this is dead and all you can do is
take it to a grand jury, get the true bill,
(26:25):
and then consider the case closed, the question for me
is why aren't DA's doing this or why aren't law
enforcement agencies turning this over to the DA's so they
can and go forward and I think the only people
we have left to present to would be the media.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
And there's several reasons why.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
Number One, last time we got a body identified, excuse me,
three bodies identified, and one of those cases was solved
within a year or two.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
So maybe we'll get the same luck.
Speaker 6 (26:55):
Because when you put this out there, you're gonna get tips,
You're gonna have people calling in, You're gonna have true
crime sluice looking on the internet, looking at missing people,
looking at you know, the DeSoto County Jane do And
maybe we can get a few more identifications through the
media because it will get picked up on.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
The media and he'll get out to people.
Speaker 9 (27:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Number two, maybe other people can ask different agencies what
they're doing with the cases. Sometimes they're just triaging cases.
The most important ones, the ones that have a lead,
the newest ones, ones that parents are calling.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
We work on those first.
Speaker 6 (27:25):
The ones that are forty years old and they're cold
and we have no information and nobody's calling.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
You know, it just has to be the last one
we work.
Speaker 6 (27:32):
So what do y'all think about taking this to the
media and letting the media get the word out for us.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
I think that's definitely a good idea.
Speaker 8 (27:40):
Probably our next best step as far as furthering this
and seeing what we can do, because other than that,
I don't think that there's a better alternative.
Speaker 9 (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
So I know how to call a press conference. I've
done it before one time five.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Years ago worked pretty well. What do you think about
getting a.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
Whole of TV and news media from each of the
areas where these women were found or went missing from.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
We only know where two went missing from.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
We could maybe contact that media and then tell them
we're going to have it and then just let them
show up. The ones that can't make it, we can
email them. The last time five years ago, one of
the local news agencies actually live streamed it so they
could watch the live stream, they could get a media
kit of the information, and then they could do whatever
(28:30):
they wanted with it. So if they want to ask
their local law enforcement or their local DA's, or if
they just want to get the word out there and
let people in the public see it and go to
work on it on their own time, then I think
that would.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Be maybe something we could do. I guess the big
question is when do we want to schedule it?
Speaker 6 (28:47):
Homecoming Queen and basketball games and college tours.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
The all easy people. So let's think about a time
we can do it, and then let's set it. Maybe
give ourselves about two weeks.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
I think what we need to do is go back
through the information, see if we want to reformat anything,
because it's different presenting to the group we presented until.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
On Friday and the media group.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Also, they probably need to put together a media packet,
which we can have them sign up for when they
come in and then we can email it to them
after it's over. We can maybe have some hard copies
available to them, maybe that to hear something. But that'll
give us a couple of weeks to do that work. Yeah,
and of course give them some time to plan on
being here if they can be here, right, No, feeling.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
Good, feeling good on excite them feeling.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Good and excited.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
How many games you'll have left?
Speaker 8 (29:35):
Oh gosh, we're are halfway through conference.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
Play regular season games.
Speaker 10 (29:40):
There's probably five or six left, okay, and then we
have districts and regionals and all that takes.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Like a month, even though it's less games.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
Oh wait, you're saying you're gonna go all the way
go a month into the planning.
Speaker 5 (29:54):
That's what I like. I like the positivity.
Speaker 8 (29:56):
Hopefully this week we get bumped to third in the state.
Oh because team that was raked ahead of us beats Okay, exciting.
Speaker 9 (30:03):
Yeah it's a little over.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Yeah, that's right, y'all. Just hang in there, though. It's
going to get more overwhelming when the world realizes. I
think that the quality of the work you guys have been.
Speaker 9 (30:13):
Doing this would be cool too.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
So it's kind it is really cool seeing like the
people are recognizing, like you said, because a lot of
times it's just been us three in here, you know,
and then other people from the outside of like, wow,
this is actually really good work. And I think people
are really surprised too when it's high school students, and yeah,
that's just been rewarding to see. It's kind of well,
(30:36):
this was all for a purpose, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
All right, Well, I hope y'all have a great day.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
Get back with me, either see me in the hall
or send me an email and let me know about
that day. A right, and I'll call a friend of
mine and we'll see what he thinks about that day
and if he has any insight on maybe what we
should do or how we should do it and we'll
go from there.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Alrighty awesome, ladies, y'all have a great day.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Okay, more on that next time. Murder one oh one
is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Alex Campbell, Courtney Armstrong,
Andrew Arnot and me Jeff Shane. Additional producing by Connor
(31:20):
Powell and Gabriel Castillo, Editing by Jeff Twa and Davey
Cooper Wasser. Music by Vancor Music. Murder one oh one
is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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