10 - Murderous TENdencies

This week's topic is "weird murders," featuring Who Put Bella In the Witch Elm and Richard Chase (The Vampire of Sacramento). Plus murder books and personal stories galore!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Microphone. Check check one one two, one two check say
other things. Check it out, you'll stay in the podcast. Okay,
A kind of a rap beginning the night Karen and
Georgia lost minds. I have to say this would be
it is this episode ten. Oh my god, Hippy anniversary.

(00:41):
What a gorgeous day for the two of us. This
is what would Is this a Wood anniversary? This is
the Wood Anniversary. I got you a sign that says
would welcome to Would you murder me?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
They carved it at the fair for you. So God,
did you ever think we'd get when we were recording
the first one that we would record nine more?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I never thought we'd get this far. I mean, it
is special. It's a special thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
It was a thing that we talked about a couple
times and then we actually.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Did and then we just did it without ever talking
about it again. We're just like, let's just fucking do it,
which I think is like that's how you do things.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I think. So don't overthink it. No, don't be afraid
to fail, don't overplan, don't plan flaws and flaws and
wear SPF thirty or higher. You hurt the song. You
know what you're supposed to wear. I mean, listen, look,
look and listen, look and listen. Wear your mother, watch out,

(01:40):
what's your coat? Listen to your mother's Karen and Georgia,
listen to your mother. Listen to your mother.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm Georgia, I'm Karen, and this is my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Welcome to my favorite murder. X right that's ten, oh
yeah x yeah. Little sexy throwing the sexon.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Always always got to be sexy when you're getting murdered.
Got to have to stay stay so what, stay so,
stay so sexy, stay so sexy.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
As a favor to us, welcome back. We are highly
trained professionals. We have radio backgrounds, We have NPR background, PhDs.
We both have PhDs in podcasts, have PhDs and podcasting.
You don't even know, you guys, what if we went
to Yale for podcasting.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
We just haven't bragged about it yet. We could be
teachers there. We could the first teachers where were like,
here's what you got to do with podcasting? You got
to record it.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Listen.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
I almost graduated community college. I feel like I am
ready for this.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah you're ready. And I flunked out of state college.
And you're supposed to do that, aren't you? I hope so,
because I sure did with Flying Colors. I think I
got like a point one two grade point average.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, you know what is really boring? Math school?
School in math and kids drop out. No, don't do that.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Listen. Do you have insane influence over kids? I like
the idea, like we're real kids that are listening.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's like this eight year old being like, I'm not
going to school because Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Were like, don't do it. Then they told me about
terrible murder. I'm going to have a podcaster one day.
Oh jesus.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
But there is someone on our podcast Facebook group who's
going back to school to become a forensic scientist because
of us. Well, Legit said, listening to this has inspired yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
She wanted to do it before.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
And then like, yeah, she's always been in love with
true crime and she said that you guys helped inspire me.
So we don't take all the credit, but there's fucking
credit there.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Sounds like we get seventy five percent credit. I feel
like we're going to her graduation. I would completely, truly would.
I absolutely would. Oh my god, that's so exciting to me.
It's the thing that we both would love to do.
God bless your education. Do it help people? Yeah, saw
some fucking crimes.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
It's probably not gonna make a lot of money, but
fuck money.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Listen, money is for suckers. Look, look and listen. No,
do it. You know you make a decent amount of money. Yeah,
I think so.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I mean, listen, I've learned. Listen, I've learned. Listen. Learn
you only need a certain amount and it's more than
you're going to probably make, but do it anyways.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I have made no brag, but this is true. In
times of my life. I've been so in debt that
my father has told me to move home. And I've
also made so much money that I could have anything
I wanted too. And I was absolutely miserable when I
had all the money and I had the best time
in the world, when my dad was like, seriously, pack

(04:36):
it in, give up the dream.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I do think back about that because I'm in the
same place where like I had to borrow money from
my mom for rent, who also has no money.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, oh that's the worst. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
And I've had a shit ton of money, and listen,
life is easier when you have a little money. Of course,
but it's just as fun when you don't, and it's
been freeing.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yes, you don't have as much you down. And also
it's good to have it's good to be challenged, it's
good to have hardship. I'm obviously we're saying that with
a grain of salt of like, think life can be hard,
and then we're not.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Saying and we're both talking about in the past five years.
It's not like when we were in our fucking twenties.
I'm talking about the last five years.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I've been like, yeah, I've had this experience recently where
I was money did not make me happier. All I
could figure out to do with myself was order cashmere
sweaters off of J Crew and then and I just
ended up giving them to my cousins because they ended
up being this weird symbol of like, I don't I'm
not about that. I don't really give a shit about that.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I wish I could give all the millions of meals
I've eaten that I've paid so much money for those
are worth it.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Well, yeah, I guess the first thing that made me
think of was like amazing French bread.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh, like I've eaten millions of dollars in carbs. There's
no way that's not true. Well, because you do it professionally.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I do it professionally, and I love carbs. And then yeah,
you do it voluntarily. I do it voluntarily. You have
very good taste. Thank you. The thing is to instead
of wanting money, you want to be doing for a
living what you actually really love. That's why it's great
she's going back to school.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I don't know what you're saying, Like, I really didn't
think that would be a thing for me in my life,
that you'd be able to figure out what you loved.
And I didn't think I could do it for a living,
so I would never state what I loved because it
felt too cocky, yep, to be like I want to
be a writer, or I yeah, I want to be
a little I want to be on camera, or whatever

(06:27):
the fuck it is.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
It just felt stupid to say that I wanted it. Yep.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
So you can just tell yourself. You don't tell anyone else.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Right, But also you get it just as much as
anyone else should get it, Like you're as deserving as anybody.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
My grandma saying was bigger dummies than you. Yeah, and
that applies to fucking everything. Yeah, I promised you. Someone
way more stupid than this girl has become a forensic scientist,
a bigger dummy, right, Yes, so she can do it too.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
She can not only do it, she can improve the
field fucking because she likes it.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Speaking of imading a new book, Okay, by that, I
mean I'm listening to a new book because I'm.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Obsessed with audiobooks.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Okay, I am listening to a book called No Stone Unturned.
It's the true story of the world's premiere forensic investigators.
Remember and like I think episode one we talked about
neck research. Yes, it's a book about how the how
neck research came to be, which started with them bearing
pigs to study decomposition and what happened to bodies. But

(07:29):
what's so cool about it that I didn't realize is
they all come from a wide range of backgrounds from
I'm reading this geophysicist to cadaver or dog specialists to chemists,
rank and file cops. And no one is allowed to
address anyone as other than their first name.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
They can't say doctor or so.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
No one's a no one, no elitism, none nice, and
everyone is just as important and everyone's it's the book
is like a testament to socialism.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I don't know. It's really good. Well, because, like we've
talked about a bunch of the times were like when cops,
when the culture of policing gets in the way of
solving crimes because people are like, oh, we're going to
keep that our our what I was going to say,
our district, our you know, department gets that, you know,
case or you see it all the time online order whatever.

(08:17):
You don't want someone's help, and you don't want you
don't you don't share information. It's the whole thing that
happened during the Zodiac killing and you killed in all
these different counties in the Bay areas. No been sharing information.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, well this is really cool because their only goal
is to find buried bodies. That's what the neck researches
is buried bodies or I mean it's a corpus in delecty, that's.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Delicious bodies indelecty. It's such a rat.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's a rad book if you're really into forensic science
and all these fields and how you know, just forensic detectives.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
It's a good fucking book and they're just trying to
help solve cases. It's like a new way, right. It's
the beginning.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
They're looking for one of ten Ted Bundy's victims based
on what he told them where he hid the body,
and so there are like a bunch of them get
together to go try to find this girl's body.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
And there's somebody there that's like that kind of tulip
only grows if da dad, that kind of tool only
growth of this.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
If you take a photo when the sun is rising
or the sun is setting, you'll see indentations in the
grass that you won't see otherwise. That means that the
soil has been disturbed. The part of that book, it's
so good. The part about the bloodhounds who find bodies
is like adorable and incredible. They're like such good fucking dogs.

(09:35):
They're very stupid also apparently. Oh but you know they
they do these little things like they furrow their brows
when they're sniffing, and that's just store the scent in
their brows, and when they need it, they unfurl their
brow and they get the scent again. They do all
these little weird things. I mean, this is the kind
of shit that the book tells you about. And it's
written really well. And there's also updates because it was
written like ninety something ninety one.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's easy now. My dog is halfhound and she's hilarious
because they yeah, they look different. Their face has changed
so much. Like when she is excited, her face looks
one way, and then when she's like concentrating, she looks
totally different. That's really funny. I just heard that their
lip flaps are long and they go over the bottom
lip because it collects the scent in their met like

(10:21):
it gets it all up in their.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Notes when there Because their ears flap, it kicks up
dust so they can smell the dust, the dirt and
the dust.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Wow, what the fuck? Right?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, So it's called No Stone Unturned. It's on audible.
I highly recommend it.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
What's your book that you're listening to or reading reading?

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Do you know how to read? I can read? And
I just bought. It's the book called Lost Girls and
it's about that fucking serial killer on Long Island. That
baffles me. Okay, so I join the Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
By the way, everybody, Oh yeah, Karen, No, no, you
didn't join the Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
You joined Facebook, like I went, thank you. I went
back to Facebook. This was I made a very dramatic
exit on Facebook in twenty eleven. Everyone like one of
those Well, nothing had actually happened, but everybody it was.
I was in a writer's room and everybody was talking
about how irritating Facebook was, but they were all also
talking about how they were addicted to it, and you

(11:17):
wanted to one app everyone and well, I'm so such
an addictive personality that like, I can't not look at things,
and I get really, you know, you want to know
did somebody try to get a hold of me? And
it's all that craziness. I completely understand that, and it
makes me live in a world that doesn't exist totally.
So as everyone was talking about it, I was recognizing
every single thing everybody in the room was saying, and

(11:39):
I just really fast and without overthinking it, just went
and deleted my account. I did that with Twitter in
like two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Oh you did you know how many fucking followers i'd
have at this point if I hadn't done that, I.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Know, a shit time, shit time. But you wouldn't be
any happier because followers are like money, Like I said,
I like money. Oh that's right, were right? So yes,
I read joined Twitter, but don't tell anyone I know
a Facebook and camp with There's the other.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Reason I went with your last name joined my favorite
murder podcast.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Really have Facebook?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Susan, No Sarah O the nus Anyway, I was scared
it was your niece because I was like, she's too.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Young for this. No, no, Nora, Nora's last names can well,
I won't say her last name, but she wouldn't my
my sister doesn't let her on social media.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know, as of this very moment, we are about
fifty people away from two thousand followers.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Not I'm not gonna say followers because that sounds kind
of sending group members.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, and they are the fucking it's the best group.
It is so fun to go on there. I have
so my book. Somebody recommended it on that page. And
then I listened to I Think It's it's a podcast
called I think it's called Crime Garage. Have you heard
that one? It's two guys, and they were talking about

(12:58):
the They had updates on this, which I had heard about,
but I wanted to hear the updates. Are there updates?
There were updates of just like new things that they
had found. But I realized as they were talking about
it that I needed to know what they were talking
I needed to know more details. And then uh, somebody
posted whoever posted on the discussion page about this book.

(13:20):
When I read the reviews, it was like, this is
an amazingly written book.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's funny because I've never wanted to there's something about
that case that I can't wrap my head around the
fact that that person is still out there, and that
one of the murders of the woman who ran away
from that guy's house. Yeah, there's a woman who went
to dance quote unquote at a majority house and freaked
out and ran away and was then found dead. And

(13:44):
like the answer was in there somewhere. Yes, That's what
bothers me about that so much, is the answer is
so obviously in from when she died to when she
got to that guy's house.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yes, And that's exactly what the crime garage guys are saying.
I hope that's the name of that podcast, because that's
what they're I listened to it as I was in
the grocery store one day. I'm almost positive but that
basically the cops haven't interrogated the person who had that
party because he's crazy rich. They were just like, no,
he has nothing to do with it, didn't.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
She also go to some guy's house who like takes
in wayward female like one of the doors she knocked
on with some dude who takes in wayward females.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, i've only read at this point. I heard their
podcast and I've read like the first ten pages. But
this book is written. It's giving you the backstory of
each of the bodies found, So they're not bodies found.
They're these young women who have these rough upbringings, but
like these mothers who busted their ass all their life
to get their girl, to get her to one better place.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
And then she was like, but I'm really pretty you bucks. Yeah,
even that's the kind of about it in the book,
I'm no sort unturned. It was like about the Denver
Seria Color. He was like, they were like prostitutes started
showing up dead, and it's like, can't you just say women, right?
You can't just say women started showing up. There's such
an innuendo when you when you specifically say that prostitutes

(15:02):
started to show.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, that's exactly right, and you can feel yourself care
less than if they were like a sixteen year old
cheerleader from this high totally some blonde and I mean
really do have a cast system.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
They live a more, They live a more. What's the
lifestyle we were talking about last week?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Oh, high risk? They live a bit higher risk lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
So it's more like, like you get into some random
dudes car wants to pay you for sex, there's a
much higher chance you're gonna get right. But that and murder,
but that doesn't mean you deserve it, that's exactly, And
that doesn't mean that they shouldn't look free. I mean, listen,
I'm gonna be honest, like, there have been times in
my poor life where I was like, I wish I
could just be a stripper.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yes, I could just go to jump.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Both clown room and dance a couple fucking dances and
make money.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
It would be nice. But that's also the imagination of
thinking that's an easier life. It's not an easier life.
It's actually a really really hard life totally, And it's
that it's young women always, and it's that idea of
like it was when Craigslist first came out and they
were like I can make some money this easy way
I don't have to stand on the street, which is
very I can just go to rich people's and in

(16:02):
your mind as a young a girl in your young twenties, yeah,
you're thinking I'm a hawk girl. Some rich guy's going
to come and pay me. I'm willing to do that
to get ahead so I can.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Like and if you think any woman wants to be
a prostitute, yeah, and want not even the word prostitute,
like we need to new we need someone who's like
a part time lover.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
You know what I'm saying, like a word of it.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, because no one wants to do that unless they're
mentally ill or Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
The thing that it should bring to mind and people
is desperation, Yeah, like trying to get above a poverty line,
all those things. Like it's yeah, there should be more empathy.
Then we shouldn't turn off because we hear that. It
should be like, oh.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
No, like what they don't say, like you know, a
twenty year old grocery store clerk was murdered, right, that
doesn't Why would that?

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I know? And also I really love those crime garage
guys because one of the guys was saying we should
be protecting women the idea that like they say prostitute,
suddenly that's like everyone puts their hands up and goes
too bad for her. It should be the opposite.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well, I think cops do that too a little bit
on some level, right Unfortunately, So we need to train
cops not to you know, I mean like sit down
that cops should be able to have to sit down
with five fucking ex prostitutes who who are just trying
to explain how, you know, why they're doing it and
what they're doing and how they don't want to do it.
And yeah, but at the same time, like some cops

(17:28):
do spend a lot of time with and like it's
almost like they're out there seeing the life they're leading.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
And then it's like, well they're not. Yeah, I'm not
going to get some moral judgment that might going to
be taking pay.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
In trouble with cops for saying that, because I know
there's some really good cops who who aren't judging women
for doing that and are trying to help them and.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
It's human error both ways. But I think it's that
the thing we say all the time where it's just
like ultimately we are talking, we're talking so much about
these victims and what are the question mark above their head?
How much have we talked about this fucking serial killer
who has gotten away killing what over ten women? These

(18:11):
bodies are just like dumped next to this highway children.
Isn't there like someone's daughter or something like that. I
don't know because I've only started this book, but I
mean it's fascinating and it's like this this killer is
just behind a wall somewhere, just totally.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Protected, knows who. It's so weird to know that, Like,
I mean, I wonder if there's this part of him.
It's like I know the secret to this and no
one else does. And yeah, that's exciting somehow well, and
if if.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
It's like the Jinks where if they're paid off, or
if they're so rich because they're out you know, it's
out by Jones speech, it's out like New York. Yeah,
it's Long Island. It's like way up Long Island in
the really nice area. Crazy, everything's gated, you know, it's
all that, it's all in a bag. I don't know,

(18:58):
it's fascinating. So anyway, I'm excited about that book and
whoever recommended it on the discussion page high five. I
can't wait.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Tell you find out who he is? I know, and
this is good. We're gonna have an emergency episode.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
That we will have to like in the at three am,
get the call and be like get your podcast out
because you got a record.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Okay, you're gonna go first this week. I'll go versus
this week. So we're ready for our favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Are you ready? All right?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
So this week I picked a topic and then I
hated it, so I made I said, Karen, what's her
dream topic?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Do you remember what the topic was before? It was
vintage Unsolved?

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Oh? Right? Then I got really angry and was like
I can't get it and I said, Karen, have you
picktures yet? And you said no, what's your dream topic?

Speaker 1 (19:44):
And then I just didn't answer you because I was like,
m yob that mind your opens? No, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
You just said, uh, you said weird murders, yes, which
like basically is we've done so many already.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
I mean we've also done like kids killing kids. We've
done so many things that like we're the category idea. Yeah,
we're just trying to organize our thoughts.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
So it's trying to help us like go down a
path that's not an infinite path.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, okay, so but also like what murder isn't weird?
Ultimately it's kind of an operation just in it.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
But you know, well, I thought there was a couple
that I wanted to do, and I also don't want
to do one that everyone like there's something about the
like maybe it's just the pod the Facebook Facebook group
that like everyone in that fucking group.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Knows every murder.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Yes, like they know everything, which is like so fun,
But I don't want to disappoint them.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yes, his same, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
So so I picked one. I was going to do
the Tom and Shoot case.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Where it's an unsolved case of an un identified a
man found dead in nineteen forty eight in Australia and
in his part he washed up on the beach and
in his pocket was a piece of paper with the
phrase tom and shoot, which means meaning ended or finished
in Persian, printed on a little scrap of paper. And
they don't know who he is, where it came from,
what his deal is. It's a fascinating case. If you

(21:08):
don't know it, which you probably everyone probably knows it, and.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's still unsolved.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Right, yeah, okay, And so is this one the one
that I picked as my favorite word murder called who
put Bella in the witch Elm?

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Is that yours? No? No, no, But I just listened
to a different podcast about this. It's great.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's also called the Hagleywoods Mystery. Sometimes this is a
good one. So in April nineteen forty three, which is
obviously in the middle of World War two, four boys
from Stourbridge in the UK were poaching. When they came back,
say that one, we're done. Stourbridge, UK. They were poaching.
They came across a large witch elm. It's spelled witch

(21:48):
or wyich in different different postings. I can't really tell.
I think it's witch. And they found a witch elm
on an estate belonging to a lord. They thought it
was a good place to hunt birds nests, and so
they tried to climb into the tree to investigate, and
they found a skull and they thought it was an animal,
and then they saw human teeth and hair attached to this,

(22:12):
and they had found a human skull. So they went
They were like, here's a great idea. Let's not tell
anyone because we'll get in trouble. For being on the
lord's land.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Like you guys, boys, if you ever.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Find something, say something, or you look fucking suspicious.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Your parents won't be mad at you for being on
someone's land. If you find a skull. Everyone knows lords
are dicks. Look, we've all dealt with asshole lords before.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
We've all trespassed on land that belongs to lords. And
if you find a body, you should tell someone. So
the youngest kid that was like, of course, it's the
youngest kids, like, I'm get here, mommy, mommy, mommy, And
he told his parents and the police checked the trunk
of the tree. They found an almost complete human skeleton,
a shoe, a gold wedding ring, and some fragments of clothing,

(22:58):
and then on further investigation, a severed hand was found
buried in the ground near the tree a yell. The
body was examined by Professor James Webster and he established
that the skeleton was of female who'd been done for
at least eighteen months and the time a death must
have been around October nineteen forty one. He discovered this

(23:19):
is a section of daffida lodged in her mouth, suggesting
she had died from exphyxiation, and I wrote or from fashion.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
In my notes she died from the eighties.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Oh, Georgia, Georgia for it, go do it doing it.
The measurement of the trunk which the body was placed
in made him think that she must have been placed
there still warm after the killing, as she could not
have fit in once rigor mortis had taken hold.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Rigor mortis is. I'm fascinated by it. It's just because
it sets in, but then it goes away, right, I.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Think it goes away after like ten days, but you can.
I feel like you can also break it. Oh, with
enough force. Listen, everyone put on the Facebook group whether
or not.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
This is true or yeah, what do you know about
rigor mortis?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I clearly someone knows something. That's a good podcast too,
by the way.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
So it's our offshoot podcast.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Someone knows something about rigor mortis.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
So the woman's murder was in the midst of World
War Two in the UK, which clearly had a lot
of action going on, so it hampered the investigation.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Police could tell from.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
The items found what the woman looked like, what was
so many people reported missing during the war, they really
couldn't tell, like find out who it was. They did
a nationwide search of dental practices, which came up with nothing,
which I feel like in nineteen forty one the nationwide
search of dental practices was not very thorough.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, you're like calling up on one of those like
crank wall phones of like, you know, hey Shrawbridge three
nine four seven eight. Have you seen a cap on
insizer three? You know, we don't do those here. Yeah,
and it's also a barber shop. I love our I
love our Duntele. Hey we an. They're British people that
talk like they're from the Bronx, from the from a

(25:09):
movie from the bron This is a good radio.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
But again, all the just the facts here, you guys.
That's all you got, the facts and only the facts.
This is a real boring podcast. So people eventually kind
of forgot about the woman in the tree until the
graffiti started. What an ominous fucking line. This is the
beginning of Banksy. So someone wrote who put Lula Belle

(25:35):
down the witch Elm? Who in graffiti? And then someone
wrote the Hagley Wood Bella. Then someone wrote who put
Bella in the witch Elm? And the graffiti appeared on
walls throughout the West Midlands, which is near where it happened,
seemingly by the same hand, which is a fucking I
love handwriting analysis so much too. It was last painted

(25:58):
onto blue Graffitis. Last it out of the side of
a two hundred year old obelisk, which is like spooky
as fuck, on the eighteenth of August nineteen ninety nine
in woy paint. That's some uh, that's some uh. What
was the the that's some toy and beutile shit.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yes, that's right. It just continues on what the fuck?
So let's see.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Okay, A couple theories that the hand buried close by
could have been a hand of glory, which I actually
talked about recently on Solar Party. It's a dried and
pickled hand of a man who has been hanged, often
specified as being the left hand, or if the man
was hanged for murder, the hand that did the deed.

(26:41):
And they at Old European Believes attributed the great powers
to the to a hand of glory combined.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
With a cant they made it the fuck.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Basically, they made a fucking hand of someone who was
hanged into a candle. And so when people would break
into someone's house, they would bring it with them for
good luck.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Oh, that's pretty much what it was.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
So it was a occultist type of thing, which is like, look,
there's a hand buried nearby.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
What does that mean. I feel like the glory part
is a bit of a misnomer. It's horrifying. It's a
disembodied hand, the hand of Storing trying to do it
like they put the wicks on the tip of the fingers.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Like if someone broke in my house with that, I
would run. So of course you would get away with it, take.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
All of my jewels and bye. I'd be like bye, okay,
bye bye. You got me later days.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
So I read this part from This is all from
like Wikipedia and random like websites.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
This is from the unredacted.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It was an until nineteen fifty three, when journalist Wilfrid
Jones started to write about the old case. That interest
was revived and he would soon receive the first solid
lead in nearly a decade. This is a nineteen fifty
three there was a letter signed only Anna offered new
details of what had happened to Bella. According to the letter,
Bella I love this had been murdered because of her

(27:56):
involvement with a Nazi spiring operating in the Lands in
the early nineteen forties. Yes, you know, I'm obsessed with
World War two and the Nazis love them. Hundreds of
German spies were captured in Britain during the war, and
the Midlands would have been a valuable source of intelligence
because of its prevalence of munitions factories. Wow, really fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
So the journalist never think of England as having spies
like that, It's like you think of because it's an
island over by itself. Yeah, how did they get there?

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Well, this is what No, no, no, I didn't write this down,
but this is one of the theories is that she
parachuted in and somehow ended up in the trunk of
the tree.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Which I called bullshit on that theory.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Maybe someone maybe she parachuted in and they found her
and killed her and put her in the tree.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
The idea that you would parachute in to be a
spy and you would parachute down into it, into the forest,
the trunk of a tree. You're the dumbest, unluckiest, by
the worst.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
She's in a plane, she grabs she gets scared, so
she grabs a handful of her taffeta, stuffs it in
her mouth too loud on her way down, hits her arm,
her hand comes off the forest buries it in the
in the ground. This is all absolutely feasible. It's doable.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
It's doable. Wait a second, what material taffa is like
prom dresses? Taffia isn't parachute, No taffaa.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I feel like it's an underskirt material. Or maybe it's
a lacy collar. Okay, like a high like Victorian lacy collar.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
It's not like nihilon. We're not talking. It's a different
thing than Yeah, cool, I thought I had a theory.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
But you know, at the same time, though, these stories
are passed down so long that it someone could have
said it's taffia and that's stuck.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Which is the problem with these old crimes is like
they just get told so many times that these things
to come back. So I'm going to say that she
had parachute nylon stuffed in her mouth.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Let's change the story. We're slipping this grip. Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So then the journalist got a letter from this woman
Anna claiming Bella had died after getting involved in a
World War two Nazi spiring and she said, finish your
articles on the witch Elm crime. By all means, they're
interesting to your readers, but you'll never solve the mystery.
The one person who could give the answer is now
beyond the jurisdiction of the earthly courts. That's a great

(30:12):
way to say someone's dead. We're now called my favorite
beyond the jurisdiction of the earthly courts.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
The AA.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I know the affairs closed and involved no witches, black
magic or moonlit rights. Basically, this witch is like, I
know what happened. Shit, So do you think that witch?
Did you say witch or bitch? That bitch knows what
happened now, no witches, black magic or moonlight rights.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Like she's saying it wasn't a.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Witchcraft because it is in the forest, I know, creepy. Yeah,
and she's found in a fucking trunk of a tree.
Like that's that's some some what was the the show
recently with.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Harrels.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
That's a true detective shit right there? Baby, the one
fuck season two two slop.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Although we did see Colin Ferrell at the movie or
the other I almost told him your performance in True
Detective season two was masterful, the only saving grace of
that shit. That really good season. And my girl Rach
Rachel McAdams. I do love her. No, she just bores me.

(31:17):
She just sucks like this all the time, and she
bores me, I know. But she has perfect like she
always has a good bob. Yeah, it's a great bob.
She has a nice tall forehead. I'm jealous of your
tall forehead, I really do, because mine is like a
three head. It is the shortest. All my bangs are
an atrocity. Nothing works, nothing works. I should shave the
front part of your your forehead like like an Edwardian.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Just get it waxed and it'll look like I know, God,
I want to bart like how you used to cut
your Barbie's hair off in the front for banng Like
here's bang.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
It's the growing, you know. I used to do baby
bangs like in the early nineties when I was a
big drunk, like little foofies. I can't tell you how
my face looked like a straight up full moon. I
look like the blood moon walking around working at the gap.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You talk about your photos from when you were younger
so much, and I've never seen them.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
I dying to see them. I've scrubbed the Internet of them.
Please don't scrub my brain of them. Okay, uh, sorry, no,
this is the best part. After a subsequent correspondence, Anna
revealed herself to be a woman named Una moss Up
and told the full story. She said her husband Jack,
worked on a local munitions factory again the munitions factory

(32:25):
in the early nineteen forties, and come into some money
after meeting a mysterious Dutchman. He later admitted to Una
that the Dutchman was a Nazi agent and Jack had
been passing him information.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
About the local industrial sites. Listen to new asshole. Yeah,
this is why we fucking lost the word No, I'm kidding,
actually won the word I'm totally kidding. Let's see so,
which in turn was passed to another agent posing as
a cabaret performer at local theaters. The Midlands had been
bombarded by the Luftwaffa in the early forties, and such

(32:58):
information would have been invaluable to the Nazis to target
their raids when they would have done the most damage
to Britain's war effort. One day, Jack met his contact
at a pub close to Hagley Wood, he was arguing
with the Dutch with a Dutch woman.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
This dutchman was arguing with a Dutch one.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
He ordered Jack to drive them both out to the
clint Hills, but the argument had grown extremely violent and
the Dutch agent strangled the woman in the car. Fearing
for his own life, Jack helped carry the body into
the nearby Hagley Woods, where the pair buried it in
the hollow of an old tree. Owm, that sounds reasonable. Yeah,
that's I mean the same, but like a reasonable explanation.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Also, sorry to say, but it's kind of a good
idea to bury a body inside of a tree.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
It's like, it's like, now, how they're doing they're doing
burials when you can be like I want to be
a pod and you can get buried in the woods.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Now, oh right, but it's against your will. But it's
that this is only the only difference. Listen, stick with me.
It's an eco burial, right, but you don't have a
choice in the matter. Just totally makes sense to me.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
And I was going to say something else and I forgot,
so yeah, oh oh. I feel like there's so many
murders that are solved because an ex girlfriend a jilted
X ex lover ex girlfriend is like, hey, FYI, here's
what happened.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I didn't say so I was scared for me, which
I totally believe, Like you eventually tell yeah, I mean because.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
That guy had a lot to lose if he was
like passing info treason if she said anything. Yeah, he
probably told her I'll kill you if you I mean, like, yeah,
she thought he would die.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
She didn't want him to die either, she'd loved him. Yeah,
and then he slept with her sister and she was like, listen,
fuck this day. Is that the reason why she's so?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
That would be afule? Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
So UNA's husband was apparently so traumatized by the brutal
Myrtal murder Myrtle of Bella that he had a nervous breakdown,
tormented by horror visions of a woman's skull in a tree,
and he was institutionalized in nineteen forty one and apparently
died later that year. So that sounds to really plausible
and feasible, and.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
It sounds like it happened immediately, like it he went
through the trauma and then just freaked out.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
It turns out nobody knew this but Nazis are assholes.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Oh yeah, they should have mentioned that in the forties,
so that America could have got involved in that word
ool alcohol. I said it. You heard me, and I
said it.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
It's like everyone from there that air is dead and
I don't care that you said it.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
It's true. There's like one ninety year old veteran that's like,
how dad, I came here to listen to a motive podcast, not.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
A rant against the Luftwaffa. Uh yeah, so that sounds
I like that theory again. I like it and it
fits very well and it could have changed a lot,
and who knows if it's true, but it's a good one.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
There was a second possible victim about being a prostitute
again prostitute, Yeah, some woman who sold her body for sex.
She was forced to write stated that another prostitute, Bella,
who worked in the hack on the Hagley Road, disappeared
about three years previously. So you know, there's that could
have been the same woman, too, true. I like that one.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
So yeah, you guys want to there's you can.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Actually there's actually a good photo of the skull if
you go online. It's called the So this is the
who put Bella and the Witch Elm or the Hagley
Woods mystery. You can see some cool photos from back then.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Every time I watch like British TV, I want to
go there because it's such a rich and storied past.
But stuff like that, like you don't even think about
it aside from the fact that they got the shit
bombed out of them during World War Two and it
was like total chaos and insanity every.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Day and these like these proper British people got the
shit bombed out of them.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
And they didn't react like that. What I love is
that it's so British that that whole keep calm, carry
on where it was just like nobody was allowed to
be like can you believe this shit or freak out
or anything. They were all like, oh right, are you
ready for tea?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, even the even the army, the British Army was like,
here are these rules that we have to follow. And
I think that's why we had to step in, is
that we're like, there are these rules of war, but
these Nazis are not following them, and you think that
the combat is this like old tradition, it's not anymore.
But you know, these proper British people, God bless them,

(37:17):
I know, and just just the fucking amount of civilians
that were just game. It's awful, it's crazy. It's both sides. Yeah,
World War two.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I will fall into any World War two black hole,
the whole thing anytime it's a people going back. What
I really like is when people go back and try
to talk to German people citizens today from that era,
and how defensive and freaked out they get. What an
incredible scar on the history of German people, and how

(37:52):
terrible they feel and how it would It's just just
a strange.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Thing if you ask them. It's not it wasn't their fault.
They weren't you know, they weren't part of it, they
weren't supporting it. I mean, I totally understand why someone
like Adolf Hiller would have looked so.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Appealing in the beginning. Yep. And that was a country
that was like on its knees for years and years
and years because we we've made them do that after
World War One. We spanked them. Yeah, not that they
didn't deserve it, but it's just that thing of like
keep an eye out for somebody that likes a scapegoat.
It's usually scapegoats are usually a minority person.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, I can't speak up for themselves. I'm gonna say it,
but you are not saying, go Onald Trump.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Let's not get into it that motherfuck. Uh yeah, oh no,
we just lost thousands and thousands of listeners. Good if you. Oh,
I don't want them that.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Those are the people who come after us. Those are
not our two thousand Facebook group followers.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Lease, are you kidding me? To be unbelievable?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
So I just love that One's weird to me because
I just love that she was found in a tree
and it's just so fascinating to me.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
It also feels like that's the kind that in it
you feel like, in maybe five years, they'll have that
solved somehow.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I feel like it's one of those ones that that
it's solved in that there's some obvious explanation that one
one I just read, but it's too late, it'll never be.
And then, isn't it weird when you hear about vintage
murders and you're like, he's sixty seven now and he
got arrested.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Me Like, oh my god, I thought he'd be dead. Yes,
he's sixty seven or whatever. Uh, But that guy. I mean,
it's such a that's a tough arrow pointing straight to
the guy that immediately has a nervous breakdown and basically dies.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I mean, I kind of feel badly for that guy, because.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
You know, what is it going to be? Like, no
Nazi who just killed your like counterpart? Yeah, female, I'm
not going to help you. Right of course he is.
Of course he is. And now he's stuck like.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
You can't tell anyone to yeah, because he's being treeson us.
He's treason us, bitch. Guys, do not sell your government secret?

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Should I do? Mind? No, I cannot wait to hear yours.
You're excited about it, listen. Excited is a word we
could use. Also, I freaked the fuck out of myself
because I've been I've known about this one for a while,
and I've been trying to jam this one in, like
when Georgia said, which, what do you want to do?
And I was like, weird murders. It's like the first
thing I thought of for this. But once I started

(40:17):
really reading details, I remembered, oh, that's right. About ten
years ago I watched a documentary about this and boned
myself out so hard that I just kind of put
it out of my mind and never thought of it again.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
God, I'm already having nightmares from the Facebook group.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
So this is going to be fun, right, And I'm
sure most of the people on our Facebook group know
this guy too because he's he's he's not a top tenor,
I don't think, but he's up there. It's Richard Chase,
the Vampire of Sacramento, and I know that once again,
I'm talking about Sacramento.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Now, there's so many murders that happen in the in
northern California.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, there really are. There's a lot of country. There's
a lot of space, wild space. It's almost like hillbillyish
in some areas. Shockingly, I hear what you're saying about
my upper but fine, I don't care, No, I just
care like there's farm land. Yes, there's a lot of
space for people to really do what they feel at night,

(41:09):
making math. Who were just making math? Tons of drugs. Yeah,
there was a lot of acid up there. I mean
that's where the I'm also listening to right now. Have
you ever heard that? You must remember this podcast? Yes,
I'm listening to the manson Murders one because so many
people there's there's a woman on our Facebook page who
mentioned it and was like, is anybody else listening to this?

(41:30):
I'm going crazy? And people all talked about it, but
I had already heard. I think Patton was talking about
it on Twitter.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Because Michelle McNamara talked about it on No Waybe. She didn't,
but she talked about a murder in like Laurel Kenya
might have been related to Manson murders, and maybe she
mentioned it.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
I'm not really sure. Okay, it's a great podcast, and
it's like talk about like a fucking high end music
cues all that show. It's like our podcast. It's just
like this one, brilliantly written, concise, effective, and like they
don't they take it seriously?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
They were they don't make fun of murder. We're not
making fun I know we're.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Not, Okay, I'm not because I almost barfed in my car.
I was sitting I got here a little early outside
Georgia's apartment and there's never parking on her street, so
I was like, basically in my address a blue Oh,
bring your knives over too. So I was like a
block and a half away, sitting in my car in

(42:26):
the dark. It's Okay, next time, pick me up and
I'll walk with you. Oh okay, I never thought about that. Yeah,
but you were like once I got up here, you
were like in your slippers. Yeah, but I come a
choose on, so bast tie me. Okay, good, I'm glad
we worked this out on the air. I will because
I'm gonna nice. I don't gently I never have that feeling.
I've lived in a major city by myself for fucking

(42:46):
twenty five years, and tonight in writing about this this
serial killer, in the dark in my car with my
iPhone light on, sitting there, and then a guy walked
right by my car and he was talking either on
the I'm sure he's on the phone. It scared me
so bad that I was like, oh this, I got
to get out of this car, walk up the street.

(43:07):
You might have just had a fuck an intuition about him.
Let's say you did.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Let's say you're super intuitive and you're like, and he's
a murderer.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Oh, I'm definitely intuitive. I think we all know that
you and I are very intuitive. I think I just
found the Zodiac killer and he takes the bus near
your house. I just hear Karen on the street yelling
there he is. So the Vampire of Sacramento is a
man named Richard Chase, and he did all of his

(43:37):
killings in one month, but his whole life led up
to that month. He was he had a terrible abusive mother.
By the age of ten, he had the McDonald triad,
which is as we all know, arson, bed wedding, and
cruelty to animals. That's called what the McDonald triad. I
didn't know that, and that's a theory now people, Yeah,

(43:58):
there's no each of those, but when they are combined,
a lot of people look at that and some people
say that is a direct link to serial killers, but
actually that's been disproven. What it is a direct link to, oftentimes,
or more often, I should say, is abuse, brutal abusive parents,
and that's what Richard Chase, the bed wedding, arson, and

(44:22):
crultied animals. So it's like, if you have a proclivity
to this, usually it's the bed wedding is the first, yeah,
if you're being abused, because it's uncontrollable, and then the
rage is arson and cruelty to animals. So it builds
if it if it doesn't stop or if you know
the kid has that hurts me in my heart. I
know it's terrible. So he this I was telling I

(44:45):
was eating lunch with April Richardson, our friend and telling
her about this, and she basically goes, oh, this guy
had no choice. This guy was going to be a
serial clar no matter what because this, all of these
things in his early life do add up to it.
And when he was in high school he had girlfriends
and stuff, but nothing ever lasted because he couldn't maintain

(45:06):
an erection. Because it turns out he was only sexually
aroused by the killing of animals or the stabbing of people.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
How did okay, So the killing of animal erection probably
started first. Obviously he accidentally got an erection one time
while he was killing a mouse. You know, it's nothing
with like a like a foot fetish where it's like
your book, your genitals get rubbed by a foot, it's
by a beautiful woman, you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
And then you associate boners with yeah, it gets imprinted
on your brain or whatever. But I think they say
with stuff like this, this is like crossed wires. This
is bad. This is bad wiring.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I'm already seeing someone writing you associate boners with like,
you know, the the people on the Facebook from writing
this these beautiful quote, like the hilarious quote on feet
and like like with a beach photo in the background.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
He assids he it's boners with feet, with feet, it
happens all the time. Okay, So of course then he
gets in it's the seventies when he's a teenager and older,
so he's super into acid and then he starts and
they so they're never really sure if it's drug induced

(46:19):
psychosis or if it's paranoid schizophrenia. Later on they're like,
he definitely had paranoid sit'sophrenia. But if you do enough LSD,
you can actually induce Yeah, if you.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Were going to have schizophrenia fifty to fifty and you
do a bunch of drugs, it's going to happen more likely.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Right, I don't know about that. Maybe somebody on just
keep doing that, maybe someone else can be a part
of this research. But they were talking about drug induced
psychosis is basically a parallel thing, and it would happen
the same time because people who are starting to experience
paranoid schizophrenia would try to self medicate medicine. Then they

(47:00):
would drink they would get high on pot and they
would they would do acid. And this was the seventies
where like nobody thought it was that bad. It wasn't
that big of a deal. So so to kind of
quickly synopsize, he basically he started going to the doctor
all the time and telling the doctor that somebody stole

(47:21):
his pulmonary artery because his heart was stopping. Oh yeah,
and that also his cranial bones were moving around and
coming out of the back of his head. And ended
up shaving his head because he was so positive that
this was happening. A terrifying thing to be sure of. Yes,
and if you're having that organically in your brain, but

(47:42):
then you're doing ass, dude, I mean horrible.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Not like Karen and I have ever done acid multiple times,
but no, not in the least does that.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
I just stared at my friend's hand until it was
my hand.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Because it's fucking fat. It's the most fascinating thing you've
ever seen in your life.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, it's crazy, but that I did it one time
and I was like, I'm never doing that again.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
It's it's just chemicals. Don't do it. It's not good anyway.
He also was sure that his blood was turning to powder.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
So he had a lot of medical issues that he
was going to bring into the doctors. A lot of
the time, the doctor's pretty sure that he was because
that's actually the age in men, like late teens, is
when the signs of schizophrenia start showing. So he was
kind of going through that. He was started accusing his
mom of poisoning him, and so his father got him

(48:30):
an apartment and moved him out of the house basically
said you can't be here, be alone. Yeah, do whatever
you want to do, yeah, exactly. So even so he
was alone, and it turned out he gave himself blood
poisoning because and this is where things are going to
become a serious bummer, so let's do it. He was
injecting himself with rabbit blood. He was injecting rabbit blood

(48:54):
into his own veins. This was he was. These are
always he thought he was going to pelp his powdery
blood or his skullbones moving around or whatever the fuck
the thing he thought was wrong with him. So he was.
They don't know how if he was buying rabbits or
catching them or whatever, but he was drinking rabbit blood,

(49:16):
mutilating rabbits. And then he started injecting the blood into
a s so he involuntarily was committed to a psychiatric hospital.
And I wanted to go to psychiatric high school. Everyone
just keeps asking you how you are all the time.
So now here's the weird thing. Though, not that there

(49:37):
are very many psychiatric hospels around anymore. But at this place,
the staff was scared of him. That's how fucking freaky
this guy was. And at one point they told a
story of the nurse going into his room and there's
blood all over his face and she was like, what's
going on, and he said, oh no, no, I just
cut myself. But it turned out they found some dead

(49:58):
birds on the outside his window, so he'd been catching
birds and drinking their blood. What the scary fuck. Yeah,
so they start calling him Dracula and they're all freaked out.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Well, the doctor's legit had like power, no thanks, you know,
he was the stat mind melt.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
He's listat I feel like you'd hold out for human blood,
wouldn't you. Bird blood?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
You get whatever you can get bird blood though, I
mean it's pure.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Man. They're so dirty. So they get him on. They
start to they balance him out on psychotropic drugs, right,
And they finally after a year, are like, you're free.
You're not going to be a danger to yourself for others.
See you later. Yeah, and they release him from the
hospital his mother. They upon his parents. I think the
word they used in the article was recognizance. I don't

(50:43):
think that's the correct word, but it's basically under their supervision.
His mother immediately weans him off the medicine because she's
a smart lady. So she gets him off the medicine,
gets him his own apartment again. Now this time he
has she's the woman, she's the person who abused him.
Ye to begin with, Yeah, she's not smart, she's probably
a bit crazier. She cares little about his well being. Yeah,

(51:05):
she probably just wants him to get away from her.
And this was also the person that was like a
cute did I say that part already where he was
accusing her of poisoning him. So he's just like, she
knows she's in danger. Yeah, the idea of her weaning
him off the medicine though, God knows what that was about, but.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
I can I can kind of imagine, and it's idiotic.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
It's frightening. So he's out on his own again. So
he ends up sharing an apartment with three roommates and
he is so fucking weird that they demand he moves out.
Apparently he was drunk, high and on acid all the time.
He would do stuff like nail himself into his own
room and accuse them of like trying to get into
his room and invade him and all this stuff. So

(51:47):
finally there and he also was always naked. It would
just walk through the room naked, so no one, no
one can have anybody over. So finally they're like, you
have to move out, and he refused, so everybody else
moved out. That's how creepy was. So he's in this
house by himself, and uh, that's when he went into

(52:07):
full vampire mode. So he started they don't know, buying,
catching whatever, but he was constantly getting animals, mutilating them,
drinking their blood. He had a thing he would do
where he'd put the animal blood in a blender with
some coke and blend it up and drink it and
soda like coke soda, yes, Coca cola, yeah, like a
little smoothie pre jama juice. This was late seventies, so

(52:31):
he would have been fun. He would have been a millionaire.
And so these were all the ways he he thought
it was going to keep his heart from shrinking, which
was his main fear at this point. I mean to
be honest.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Blood is good for you, like eating blood, is you
get a lot of iron iron?

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, if you have iron poor blood, but it's not
going to help your cranial bones from moving out of
the back of your head. You're a pregnant woman if yes,
psychopathic fucking and if you are a prey at woman
you feel like you might, I'd have iron poor blood
instead of mutilating a rabbit. You can just have a
Guinness drink one guess and you're done. Or iron see
and iron tablet. Yeah, you could do that too.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Don't drink iron. A bunch of shirts go on. I've
never heard of this once, so I'm fascinating one.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Oh, okay, sod duh. So the killings begin on December
twenty ninth, nineteen seventy seven, and right the month before
the killing start, he is found there's a place called
Pyramid Lake that's kind of by Lake Tahoe, and it's
this weird kind of salty lake and it has these

(53:36):
weird rock formations that are pyramid shaped, and apparently this
guy drives out there and there's just Richard Chase standing
out there naked, covered in blood, and they're like, what
the fuck? So they call the sheriff for whoever, and
they find Richard's truck has a bucket of blood in
it and the whole inside is covered in blood. So

(53:58):
they arrest him, but then they test the blood and
they find out it's just cow's blood, so they let
him go. Oh goodbye, no charges or no charges because
apparently that's you're allowed to just cover yourself in cowblood
if you so choose, all that's fine, yeah, and just
be staying. Imagine if you were like, let's go out
to Pyramid Lake and take some pictures. What a gorgeous day,

(54:20):
and you get out there and that fucking apparently he
was like five eleven and weigh one hundred and forty
five pounds.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Oh so he's like emaciated and he's a ghoul. He
looks like a ghoul. Or what if I was like, Karen,
do you want to go out to the Pyramid Lank
and put art cow blood all over ourself?

Speaker 1 (54:34):
And I'd be like yeah, and then be like, oh
my god, Bret Yard, what are you doing here? I
knew it was meant to be so. So a month later,
he was basically walking around and driving around his neighborhood
and he just starts shooting people. So he does a
drive by and he ends up killing fifty one year

(54:55):
old Ambrose Griffin, who was out in his driveway. He
was helping his wife brings groceries into the house. She
thought he dropped, and she thought he had a massive
heart attack because it was such a strange thing. And
then she only found out when he got to the
hospital and was pronounced dead that he had actually been
shot twice. Later that I know, and he you know

(55:19):
later that and he was a father of two, very sad.
Later that day, a twelve year old boy riding his
bike reports to the police that a guy drove by
in a brown transam and shot at him and missed. Jesus.
So he's wilding, He's Richard just doing some crazy shit.
He's wilding.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Okay, so you won't get professionalism like this and any
other podcast.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
That's right where we're just like whoa, oh my god. Okay.
So then January twenty third, about a month later, and
this one's rough it's a bummer. So this is where
it turned for me where I was like, look out,
where did this guy is eating rabbits and drinking their blood?
But that, of course, just was the beginning for him

(56:05):
to go on and do that to people. So if
you didn't like the rabbit part, you're really not going
to like this part. Everyone liked the rabbit part. Everyone
doesn't love a good rabbit killing. So this is the
part that's a super bummer. What he would do is
just walk around a neighborhood and try doors. So yeah,

(56:26):
and he told the FBI agent who interviewed him after
he was arrested from jail that he would walk around
and then if a door was locked, he interpreted that
is that he was not welcome and he would move along.
But then if you would get to a door that
was open, he would go into the house and just
see what would happen. So there's a story of him.

(56:48):
Is he on this same day was trying doors and
he walked up. A woman tells the story of seeing
this young man who looked super crazy and creepy walk
up and try her back patio door and it's locked
and she's watching him do it. He walks over to
the window and tries it. It's locked, And then he
walks to her front door, and she walks up to
the front door, like, what the fuck are you doing?

(57:09):
He just stares at her and then walks away. That
is this. If I saw someone trying my back door
and my window bread, I would scream. That's terrifying. It's horrifying.
So then he went on his way. I'm pretty sure
she called the cops because obviously she told that's right. Yeah,
But he went on and the next house he found
the front door was open. No lock, your door's good, yeah, always,

(57:32):
So he goes in and a pregnant twenty two year
old woman named Teresa walland teresaon her body was found disemboweled,
drained of blood, and there was a yogurt cup sitting
next to it that had been filled as if he
was drinking streaking out of it. And she was raped

(57:56):
and mutilated and her organs had been taken out of
her body. What a sick fuck. Yeah, it was super crazy,
like Jack the Ripper style insanity. And the worst part
is that her husband came home from work and their
dog was on the front porch and the lights were out,

(58:17):
but the stereo was on, so he goes in, like,
what the hell's going on? And he thinks, oh, I
didn't say, Oh, probably the doors. That's what I'm picturing.
Something hideous. He thinks there's oil in the front room,
like he doesn't understand what's happening, and then he finds
his wife's bodies. Horrior is he for the rest of
his fucking life. It's over. It's over. It reminds it

(58:39):
makes me think of like the end of the Zodiac.
Remember the movie when they interview the.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Guy in the airport, Yes, who had been in the
car with the girl got shot.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, that actor is the great actress. His name's Jimmy.
I can't remember his last name, but he you know
the girl from beau Heavenly Creatures, who was it was
Kate Winslet, and then and the girl with the brown hair.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I'd heard that he was someone before, so that makes
never he's a great actor and he was on all
of this whatever is meaningless.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I can't I can't say the right names. And before
the cops later found that he had put a bullet
in her mailbox as he was walking.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Up to that that was significant to him. Somehow, but
in his crazy fucking I mean the idea of seeing
that gore and guts and blood and not being and
being affect being not affected enough to stick around and
keep doing it. Yeah, there's guy's some crazy like disociate
of shit going on.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, he's out, he's gone, gone, gone.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Like most people see someone get cut and see blood
and are like, I can't deal with this, or like
a broken bone, or like I can't deal with most
of us, yes, can't handle it.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
But he's not even It's like that thing of like,
you know, sociopaths don't have like consciences, but he's psychotic
like this is he's not there yea. So he leaves
that house and apparently he had gone into another house.
The cops find out later he'd gone into another house
and had gone in because the door was open and

(01:00:11):
had ransacked it and peed into a drawer of freshly
laundered baby clothes and then defecated on the little boy's bed,
on their child's bed. They walk in, he runs out
the back door. The husband chases him and he can't
catch up to them. So that was just like a
fucking near miss that they weren't in the house. As

(01:00:31):
a hero. They were just coming home. Yeah, thank god,
no one was there, and same day as he did
that murder, So he was just he was just walking
around doing doing what he wanted and doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
He wasn't even aware of it that he needed to
go hide, right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Right? Exactly? No, no, no, not at all, Like he knew
once the guy was chasing him, but no he didn't.
He was walking around with like bloody clothes and didn't
try to hide it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
That's not mentally competent to stand trial, if I've ever
heard it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah, no, he's he's out of his mind. He was
totally fried. So once this murder and this horrible scene
is found, they call the FBI in, and the FBI
makes a profile and it's like young, unemployed, mentally ill,
and it's like they undernourished like they had him, and
it has.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Been in lock up before, like they know specific shit,
yes the way that the way the FBI does.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
So then the next murder is thirty six year old
and this one's rough. Evelyn Moroth and her six year
old son and his friend Daniel. And now the good
news is that in my mind they were all shot.
So he he didn't torture them or make them suffer.
But I'm, you know, saying what you're saying. I mean,

(01:01:47):
as compared to some hideous ones that we talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
How many times I said, ovey and Jesus like, I
can't stop.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Saying that because this is hideous. But it's basically, she
was upstairs taking a back while her friend Daniel, who
was fifty one, was in the house like watching the kids.
While she was up there. He shoots that guy. He
goes upstairs and shoots her in the bathtub, mutilates her,
rapes her body, it viscerates her, does weird shit with

(01:02:16):
her entrails, all that creepy stuff. Then the little kids
each just got shot in the head. And then there
was a baby that when the cops got there, they
found a pillow with a bullet hole through it, the
playpen had blood in it, and the baby was missing.
So yeah, so now the cops and if FBI and

(01:02:37):
everybody are like, this is we've got like a serious
serial kill. I mean, obviously they already knew that, but
this one was. It was in I mean, you can
go online and read the details, but the details are
just a bummer and it's just more of what I'm saying.
It's awful, It's really awful. But here's what I kind
of find fascinating. And this is when I think, this

(01:02:59):
is the part I myself out on. Is So they
get a call, the cops get a call from a girl.
Find her name here, it's uh, her name is Nancy Holden.
And Nancy Holden tells the cops. On the same day
as all this other shit happened, she was in the
Town and Country Shopping Center, which I know where it

(01:03:20):
is in Sacramento off Watt Avenue. It's this area and
it's like Sacramento is just this big I've said it before,
but it's just like this big, wide spread out. It's
like all these suburbs smashed to get shopping centers and stuff.
Shopping centers and shell stations and taco bells. That's that's
all I remember. So culture everywhere, just it just culture.
As far as I can see, it's like New York

(01:03:40):
but flat. So they're in the Town and Country Shopping Center,
which is one of those full on seventies, like a
shopping center that looks kind of adobe.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Is there's a yes light what, there's a lot of
Ivy from like in Orange County.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
That you know it archway walkway type of thing. All
the signs for the stores have the same it's like
woodcut sign.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
They were like dark wood and white paint.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Yes, oh my, that's that's town and country shopping. She so,
this girl, Nancy Holden, is in a store and this
freaky guy walks up to her and says, were you
on the motorcycle when Kurt was killed? And ten years
before her boyfriend Kurt was killed in a motorcycle accident
in high school, and so she's looking at this person

(01:04:28):
and she goes, who are you and he's like, it's
me Rick Chase. And then she's like she remembers Richard
Chase from high school as being this like studious, cute guy.
And now she's looking at this fucking again ghoul and
he has he's wearing a sweatshirt with blood on the
front of it and I think I think barefoot is
what she said. But apparently he's trying to talk to

(01:04:51):
her and she's just standing there like getting the worst
vibes to this guy. So at one point he turns
around and buys something and she just gets the fuck
out of the store for her. He follows her out
because he wants to get a ride from her, and
he's still trying to talk to her. She gets in
her car, locks the door and drives away like peels out.
This girl's smart, she's super fucking smart. And then she
calls the cops and says, here's the experience I just had.

(01:05:14):
The guy's name's Richard Chase, and that's what leads the
cops to his apartment. When the cops get to his apartment,
they stake it out for a little while. They go
up and knock. They know they can tell he's in there.
He won't come out, so they just go back and
sit in their car and watch. Finally, after hours, he
comes out holding a box. He's got that same bloody

(01:05:36):
sweatshirt on, he's got no shoes on, bloody feet, The
baby's in the box. They arrest him. No, there's weird,
random shit, and I think the gun was in the box. Okay,
But they go into this apartment and it is covered
in blood, the walls, the ceiling, it's putrid, like the
smell was apparently horrible. He's got three blenders going, like

(01:05:57):
not going, but three blenders with all of his crazy
shit on on the counter and they said it was
just it was a horror show inside inside the refrigerator,
there's body parts. It's like Dahmer style, pre Damer Dahmer,
what a sick fuck crazed. And it was basically, this
person who's in full psychosis left alone to just go

(01:06:19):
go as crazy as he needs to go.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Schizophrenia doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna go fucking murder. No,
it doesn't even I don't even necessarily it doesn't mean
that's gonna happen, that this person that was his predilection
is to fucking go after it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
This is like the you know, the perfect storm of
an abusive childhood, paranoid schizophrenia, untreated drug use, worse. It's
he he went down the worst possible road and then
drove himself twenty times further down that road.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Did they did they find that he had killed anyone before?

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
This is murder spree or was this it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
But there were stories of him like walking through people's backyards.
There were lots of the creepy story of I saw
that guy he tried my door, or just somebody like
there was one of just him standing in someone's backyard
lighting a cigarette. Like the creepy creepy factor is all
in there. So of course he goes to trial, and

(01:07:16):
ultimately I didn't really write down the details because I
just started getting so bummed out about this. It doesn't
matter that you're talking about the murders. It's yeah, right.
And but here's what I like that the FBI agent
that created the profile of him went afterwards and interviewed
him at Sam Quentin love this, and he explained that

(01:07:38):
it wasn't his fault because Nazis and UFOs were trying
to kill him and he needed to kill and he
needed to drink the blood and he needed to eat
the organs and do all this stuff to stay alive himself.
He's so mentally ill. And then in one of the
articles I read, there was two different kind of versions
of the story, but I love this version. Then, after

(01:07:58):
explaining all this, which is just batshits, psycho bullshit, he
reaches into his pockets and pulls out a whole bunch
of macaroni and cheese and gives it to the FBI
agent and goes, they're trying to poison me. I need
you to go test this. Oh my god, and so
apparently the story at jail was that the guards and
everybody said that all the other inmates were so freaked

(01:08:21):
out by him that they were constantly telling him to
kill himself. And so in nineteen eighty he had stockpiled
all the antidepressants he was supposed to be taking, and
he just took them all one night and killed himself.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Fair enough, man, Yeah, I appreciate that he did that,
But that'st important question. Was the macaroni and cheese spiked?

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
It was totally poisoned by alien Nazi blood and a
little rabbit. I do you think that it was shit?
Be careful? How do you feel crazy?

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Like I love macaroni and cheese. I love Nancy Holden.
She is the key element in the Town and Country
Free shopping center. She's the one.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Yeah, I know, we had the Woodbridge Woodbridge Village shopping center.
It's a bad barn. How are we going to how
are we going to rid you of this? I feel
like you need like a like a palate cleanser.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
I feel like I should start drinking again tonight after
twenty five years. I don't you think that's the key? Yeah?
But not on my watch man, Yeah, just watch me
drink four years now. It's literally on my watch. I'm watching.
I demand that you watch me drink twenty nine beers
because I can do it. I just want to prove
you I can do it. And then you turn into
him and that's the night also, and I'm sure everybody's

(01:09:35):
saying it, but the pictures of him, there's part of
me and this is the sick part of me where
you look at picture of him and go he could
have been so cute. It's kind of like Nancy Holden
being like this guy he was cut in high school.
You have a kitty, and now he's super scary, but
it's sexy. I mean, blood on the ceiling, blood on
the walls. Not on the ceiling, but on the walls.

(01:09:56):
There's a song here.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Okay, okay, got us something we're gonna do. We're gonna
switching live shows. Yes, every month. Can you do the
theme song live every time we do a live show?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
You know what's funny? I think I can. But I
made that up just in the excitement of you and
me recording that first podcast. I went home and just
like started playing that. I would have to really take
some time to figure out what I was playing, how
about it can be different.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
You can just fucking free freelance and do whatever the
fuck you want to read out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Okay, Uh, that's a awful. It's pretty terary.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
It's not charming, like finding a woman debt the skeleton
and a witch ol.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
It is not And I apologize for them. No, I
feel so bad for you. I've been wanting to talk
about him for so long, and then once I got
into it, I was like, oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
I don't like this at all. I didn't know that
one I was gonna do. Is it Richard Fish, Albert
Albert Fish? Yes, that guys google his photo. Here's okay.
Can I tell you this?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
I was one of the articles or it was like
a Reddit page where someone was talking about Richard Chase,
and then someone else got in there goes, I mean,
he's all right, but he's not as weird as Albert
Fish Albert, and somebody else goes, yeah, I think when
you when you kill people because you think your blood's
turning to powder, it's pretty fucking weird.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
No, I think he's It's almost like, is he worse
because he didn't have a choice. It feels like or
is it you know, like Albert Fish chose and took
pleasure and enjoyed killing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
People and knew what he was doing and knew what
he was doing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
And manipulated people, yes, like and tortured people afterwards, right, yeah,
follow up, it was manipulated and so but but the vampire,
it's almost like, you know, it was one day of murder,
a couple of days, a couple of days of the
one big yes, right, you were saying it was like
a month that he.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
But yeah, you're right, Like Richard Chase is the example
of what if this happened in the fifteen hundreds, they'd
be like it's the devil totally. Yeah, yes, you're right,
because he would have the crazy eyes and the way
Nancy Holden described him was like super creepy ver you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
And also can you just imagine somebody walking up to
you or is like, hey, did you done them? I
just and like blood on the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Sweatshirt, like well, I used to work in those in
a shop and basically that shopping center and the thought
of alone all the time, and you think you're safe
because you're at work, and then some fucking dude who
was like a hot senior when you were in high school,
comes in with blood.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Who's rabbit blood ravaged? Yeah, just don't let those you
know what, Let the hair on the back of your
neck dictate what you do.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Not politeness. Yeah, I agree. That woman was not polite
and she didn't stick around because her job depended on it.
She got the fuck out of there. Yeah she didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
She didn't give him a ride because she was trying
to be nice and didn't want him to be mad
and all that weird bullshit that people do. She just
was like a bye bye, goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Rich tell us your favorite weird murder at our Facebook page,
my Favorite Murder group.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
And if you know other details, like anything about that
we want to hear him speak or anything, you can
email us at my Favorite Murder at Gmail and you
can We're at.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
My Favorite Murder on Twitter. Yes, should we read? I
think I think we should. Well, we're doing many episodes now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. So let's because we get
so many emails and we want everybody to have their
story be heard.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Yea, you deserve a lot. I think we're good time wise.
Oh okay, let's do a mini episode. But first, silk
Wood Shower, say what silk wood shower, because my lord,
that was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
It was raw. Let's end.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Let's this is another episode that needs to be end
ended on a positive note.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Yeah, good idea, Elvis. I wish you could see Georgia
walking around her apartment like share with.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
The do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
That's a yes, a yes. Do you guys want a cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Yeah you do, be our friend. Yay, thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Okay, bye,