Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 50: The Golden Anniversary Episode - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
That's right, it is Wednesday, and that means only one thing.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
That means we're going to recap our old shows with
all new commentary, updates and insights.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
And today we're going to recap episode fifty, which was
originally entitled the Golden Anniversary Episode. I love that.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
That means we've been doing Rewind for a year.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, that's right. So this episode came out on January fifth,
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
So let's get into the intro of episode fifty. Yay,
so you get it out now you Oh, they're not
supposed to know about your pre show cry.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hello everybody recording.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I wish you guys knew what a nightmare it was
from when Karen got here in my apartment until we
started recording.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I just asked for an eight minute sob before we start,
just to get it out. Yeah, it's better, is it?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
For me? This is my favorite murder?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's right, that's Karen, that's Georgia, that's started. There's nothing
worse than when we do it correctly. I feel like
there's it feels terrible to do it right.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, this is that kind of podcast like this isn't that,
this isn't there's no second takes.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Although I have to say I would love Steven could
ever get us act together for a little bit of uh,
just a little bit of intro music, can we please?
Wouldn't it be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Just play like your theme song, like out loud in
the apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, or yees oh you could do that. Or if
you've got a keyboard, throw throw it over to the
Bosonova rhythm.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, yep, get us pumps, get.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Us a little just a little like talking intro music, like.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Loud enough that it's over the crying over Karen sobbing.
So they're like, I can ignore it.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
I wind the sobbing out slowly and you intro.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
This and that way I don't accidentally introduce a different podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
That's good idea? Well, I mean, or whatever comes out?
What if we just have it as the whatever comes
out allowance?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
That reminds me, oh, what are we gonna call our tour?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
So we have a name?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
We don't, but I think it'd be funny to have
just a bunch of ideas of note and like never
settle on one.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Okay, well, then my first idea is Monsters of rock.
What's your first idea? The f word murder mystery tour? Great,
then we have to fucking give a cut to someone's dad.
Whoever made up that name? Angry at this episode? We
could also do just we could call ourselves the gin Blossoms.

(03:02):
I'm all minor banded jokes. It's not good. Should we do? Uh?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
No, yeah, I guess I don't need one. I mean,
we weren't have a sign behind us. Now we like
at the show. No, who's gonna make it? Not gonna,
who's gonna hang it? Gonna hang it or make it?
Stephen just raise, We're just gonna. We're gonna keep piling
ship on you that you have to fucking do.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
What if we call it Steven's Piles Tour, the Piles
of Stephen?

Speaker 1 (03:29):
What's that mean?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's just piles of shit? He has to do tour? Oh?
I got it, get it, It's called I look that
you immediately lost track of what was happening piles.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
But like I thought, I was thinking like like Gomer Piles.
So I was thinking abong Steven's Stephen piles like Gomer Pile.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, great? Uh? What if
we cancel the tour because this is such a problem
it can't be solved. Cool, what if we call it
the dry shampoo Tour? Because I swear to god, I
planned on bathing before I came here, but I didn't.

(04:08):
I was doing other stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
This is a safe place to not bathe.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Oh my god, but I the amount of dry shampoo
I've started depending on. Oh yeah lately, do you use
it too?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yes? And your hair looks full and it looks like
you look like a mod like yeah, like a mod
model model Ooh like it's full and bouncy, and I
fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Oh okay, thank You's great. I'm gonna start doing that.
Then I also think I might need more layers. It's
not we should not. I love it.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I love it hair.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Thanks. Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:38):
So oh you guys loved the year end Guy Brenham
spectacular episode.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yes, thanks for all your positive feedback on that. Yeah,
we're gonna definitely have him.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Back on I don't love that it was one of
your favorites because I'm sorry, what have we been doing
this fucking fifty episode?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Hey? Look we get it. Yeah, yeah, we get it.
We get it.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Like when there's someone else talking to anyone else, anyone
else who has correct information. Look, fine, we'll do it that.
We'll fine, we'll fucking smart Okay, and we'll do it.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Watch this. Watch how much you don't enjoy this. I'm
gonna name every state in every Roman numeral. Right now,
I can kick off a corrections corner by saying, yes,
the Sandra Bullock movie is two weeks notice, and yes,
I said it was called six weeks notice, while claiming
to be her number one fan.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Two weeks is not enough.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I feel like six weeks, I think, I feel like
is the legal amount. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Six weeks Like sorry, I'm sorry. Two weeks is like
me getting fired from being a secretary, you know what
I mean? Like, but six weeks is like when you're
a fucking lawyer, like Sandra Bullock was.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
You're a professional? Thank you right?

Speaker 1 (05:48):
She was.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
She was a lawyer. I don't even know that very good.
I just felt like the movie took so long. It
couldn't have been two weeks that she when she gave
Do you really like that movie? Like?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Legitimately, oh, I saw watch it every time. I know
you will, But like, is it like a you know,
it's a bad movie?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Watch No, it's not a bad movie. H Grant and
Sandra Bullock are equal parts. He's the British version. They're
the equal person of themselves. They're the mirror reflection of
each other. They're like riffy yet real, and they're kind
of like mumbly bumbly. So they're playing and you know

(06:23):
they're they're attracted to each other.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, but they're playing brother and sister.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
But which is the part? I like, it's a real
Game of Thrones situation, and yet there's a corporate element
to it, which I also love.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
It just bums me out, Like I see movies like
that and I'm like, oh, what have you had to
fucking live your life by working in an office every
fucking day?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know part of the part that I love in
that movie. And there's details like this that always stick
out to me. You can tell when either the person
that wrote the movie or Sandra Bullock herself. There's a
part where she orders Chinese food, like this isn't how,
It's just not how. People like the idea is that
she's going to totally binge on Chinese food, but it's
way too much Chinese food, Like you already get a

(07:05):
ton of Chinese food when you just get four or
five things, like.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
We know, here's what you get. You get a poultry
and you get maybe get a shrimp, and then you
get a noodle or a rice and maybe some like
like wag rolls because you want to crunchy things.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yes, that's the first thing that you need. But yeah,
four things entree and maybe you're gonna add the fifth.
In this thing, she sits on that phone and she
just keeps ordering dishes and it's like, now I believe
that you've never eaten anything besides like an apple and
a cup of yogurt because you've never allowed yourself to
have Chinese.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's a scene in it, like here's how bum she is.
I'm pregnant.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I'm saying a little bit. It's no, but it's just
her thing. It's like to show that she's so down on.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
It's one of those things where it's like and people
tweet this all the time, like I ordered Chinese and
they brought and it was just for me, and they
brought eight utensils because that's how much I ordered. Like
I'm such a pig. I'm cute, you know, and you're
like fucking shut up, like there's that. There's this amazing
instagram that I'm with and I don't know exactly what
it's called, but it's basically called you didn't eat that.
I's these photos of models and like actresses that are

(08:08):
like opening their mouth and putting a food thing near
it and taking a photo of it.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
But like, you didn't eat that. That's right. Everyone knows
it's always a carb. Like it's always like looking out,
I'm gonna dance with this bull of spaghetti, but you've
never actually had that in your mouth. I'm going to
dance with this bull of spaghetti. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
If you want to shake a bath in one food product,
what would it be? Because a spaghetti bull of spaghetti
sounds great.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, I think spaghetti and parmesan cheeseboos together. And you
just slip right into that, dude, that's what you got.
What is wrong with it? That sounds so nice, That
sounds so relaxing, just after giving your six weeks notice, Yeah,
you just get into that.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Maybe order some Chinese door dash, some Chinese.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Postmates it straight into the bathroom or not.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
This isn't a commercial, by the way, Oh no, you
can slip into a commercial.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Nope. Not at all. Oh, we also need music before
the commercials because of it's coming so chatty. It's not
fair to tell we're not trying to do that.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
We're not like this isn't you guys know that we
don't know anything about like editing and fucking engineering.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
And being sneaky and like talking about states. Clearly. Here's
the other mistake I made. Okay, when we were talking
with Guy about legal shit and we were talking about
the murder of Harvey Milk, I had to pop pipe
up and say, and you I think you said something like, yeah,
he was murdered by his coworker and another politician. And

(09:34):
I said, that's right, Dan Brown. The person the person
that murdered Harvey Milk was Dan White. Dan Brown is
the international best selling author of The Da Vinci Drat
and he absolutely did not kill Harvey. Paren's starting rumors
is my favorite new corner. This is the gossip corner.
Now did you know?

Speaker 1 (09:53):
But did Guy or Georgia myself? Not a correction, not
a beat, Nope, no one even heard it. Because here's
the thing, we're allowed to say, whatever the fuck queen want.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
This is our podcast.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
If you want a factual podcast, go to what you
missed in facts.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know us story we're cutting edge because like this
whole thing of like then there is no reality anymore.
And we've been doing that since last year. This happening,
you know that.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I also feel it's funny that you, like, I get
fucking everything wrong, but you're the one who has corrections
corner this so slowly. I'm just like, I don't care.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I don't care here.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Oh if you're if you're a bitch enough to fucking
tell me what I got wrong, then that sucks. But
I also think it's hilarious to get like when we
get shit wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I do too. There's people though, I accidentally stumbled on
this email and I can't I was trying to find
Do you ever do that thing where you start an
email and then you have to go check something else.
This happens to me on my phone all the time.
I start to write an email and then I have
to go check, and I'm like giving the person I'm
writing it to someone else's email, and I want to

(10:57):
double check to make sure I don't give them the
wrong email. Yeah, I leave the email, so I hit
save draft, but then I can't find it in my
drafts holder it's not there. Then I'm like, did I
send that email?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (11:09):
And then I'm like, and then what if I go
back in do you I started again and then re
send another email? So scared, I fucking.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Punched my microphone in the face.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
This is something that I actually went through recently. Do
you do that? I mean I have, I have done
it once once before, where now I'm scared to death
that it's that idea of is it in drafts or
did you just send it?

Speaker 1 (11:28):
It saves it itself, so you can just close it here.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
This is but sometimes my phone phone quick enough so
it's like it just updated, but it really didn't.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Do you know what I do, which could be a
mistake is I start to type in their email address
in the email I'm writing, and it comes up, oh,
like you're going to see see them, like you're seeeing
them in neat. But then don't forget to be like,
oh yeah, that kind of here's her email, and then
you're like you find it by se seeing them, and
then you're.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Like, oh shit, that'd be the best. You're you're talking
shit about a person that you're also giving their email
mail to the person yeah, but you shouldn't hire her on.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
I think she's a stupid but anyway, get a hold
of her anyway, Like she's like she's gonna suck everyone
on that crew.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Ah, why was I evening that example?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Mistakes made? It's called my life?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
What was it? There's a reason I was saying that, Stephen,
What was the reason? Six weeks?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
No, I wasn't that, Stephen. You're too far back.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Put the phone, put that microphone down, put the phones
on the phone.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Steve's on like a payphone in the corner.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Steve, get off.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Jesus, microphones are going everywhere today, Stephen, can you get
some better fucking props? Are these props? Well, we're about
I'm moving and so.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
This is about so exciting.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
I'll be like, I'm kind of sad. This is our
like setup, like video.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
When it's like March and you have full ac.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
People are like in other parts of the country, like
March is cold.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Nope, Nope, not here and fucking global warming town where
we are gonna five always.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
We're gonna have an episode live from the pool. I'm
going to fucking be living near Nice. We're gonna play
tennis and record at the same time, not me. No,
we're gonna have I don't know how to play tennis.
We're gonna sit on hardwood floor. Yes, everything about I
can't so yeah, we'll let you know. But we need
a photo of like this events comes home drunk, We'll

(13:25):
have him take a photo of us right here.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
The day that I haven't bathed. You look great.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
You're out of your gd mind what you had one
more corner?

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Oh, it was my the thing that that happened over Christmas,
my good story that I didn't tell you, the whole
thing of. So at my aunt Joe's house. Now my
family knows that I have a podcast a murder. Many
are excited about it. Some don't like it and told
me right to my face, which is which is funt?

(14:05):
But my lovely aunt Joe said, well, wait, did you
know that Marty had a hand in the arrest of
the nightstalker? My cousin Martin, the oldest of all the cousins.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Who is the San Francisco policeman? Fuck our refirement, who
was a cop in San Francisco for many years. He's
now retired. Uh was he had just started? He was
like just on the force. He was basically a beat cop,
and there was a burglary in the Marina, and so
they went in and will. While they were looking at

(14:38):
the place that had been burgled, they found a set
of fingerprints, and so they called the forensic team whatever
it's called. He told me the story on the phone,
actually because I was texting him of like, how could
you never have told me that? And he was like,
we never talk. You're the most you're you're angels. Yeah,

(14:59):
stop you me for crime. And then I was like,
too bad, tell me the story.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I'm sorry, You've been boring the whole time I've known you.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Now suddenly you're interesting. No, this is these are all
my cousins are fun. But he tells me. So they
find a fingerprint on the window, so they called the
guy the team to come and get it. And then
that fingerprint leads to the identification of Richard Ramar dude,
because so you know how he started in La then
he went up to San Francisco, and then he went

(15:27):
back down to La Okay, So when he was in
San Francisco, that fingerprint basically helped identify him. And my
cousin Marty was one of the two.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Copses you had that technology then where they could like
send fingerprints to places.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
I guess so, I mean it was like the late nineties.
It was the late eighties. Yeah, I think it was
eighty nine. Like fact, fax machines were in their prime.
They faxed over the request. Yeah, dude, that's so cool.
It was super exciting to me. And I go, why
didn't you ever tell me this? And he goes, no
one's ever asked me about this or you need to

(16:03):
be balked about it. Yeah, that's what I said. And
the interesting thing he said was that in that break in, uh,
Richard Ramirez stole a couple of things from this. You know,
the Marina is like super nice part of San Francisco.
There was a girl sleeping downstairs and he didn't know.
He didn't go downstairs. If he had gone downstairs, she

(16:26):
would be dead. And also I know she she never
even knew he was there, so she was like the luckiest.
And also while he while Richard Ramirez was in San Francisco,
there was my cousin, Uh, my cousin, Marty's daughter, Kathleen
told me this because she said she's always been scared

(16:48):
to pull her car into a garage. She had to
walk out of it. Well, she's like, anytime I there's
a garage, I immediately like turn off the engine, but
immediately closed the door. Well, they have those.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Garages that don't have doors, but we have to pull
into them and then walk back out the garage door,
and those are.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Very scary, very scary. So she's like super paranoid of
anything similar to that. Because when Richard Ramirez was in
San Francisco, there was a woman who got out of
her car and he was standing in the front of
the garage thing and he shot her and the bullet
was deflected by her keys and she survived. Last night,

(17:27):
a key chain saying come on, don't, no, you don't.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Elvis just stopped touching me. When I said that, Elvis
was like, that's.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Stupid, mom. So anyway, that was that was Christmas night.
I got to hear all these stories and it was
it made me so proud to be a kill gariff.
It was exciting.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I'm proud of is his last name kil Gariff. Yeah,
that's awesome, Marty Kilgarriff.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Then my cousin and then Mike is a sheriff, sheriff
kill Gariff. Yeah, that's real. Oh, my god.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
My brother was an usher at a movie theater when
he was in high school, and so he was asher
the ushers for.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
The usher see dreams Come True.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Everything's fine, Everything's gonna be okay. In twenty seventeen, well,
my second cousin wrote Pink Cadillac.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
So there we go, the Bruce Fringsteen song. Yeah is it? Yeah,
pik Cadillac. Yeah, he wrote that. That's awesome. He's in
the Bay Area too.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It's whatever, Twins.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well, thanks for tuning in. This is called family victories
with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
This is called We're not Losers? Oh we have family
or successful?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Uh, someone's doing something.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Uh my favorite murder dot com has all this is
in the end of the show. But no, you know
we're about to get into some heavy fucking shit, right,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
So yeah, so take this information with you. There's a website, Sure,
we have a website.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Is there anything I feel like I just I should
do something where I write stuff down and I think
of it throughout the week and then talk to you
about it.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Like make a list.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yep, sure find it out.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
When we get started with the Murders. Just happy fiftieth
episode Oh my god, is this it? Yeah? This is
episode fifty. Oh my god, thank god for Steven.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Even you even met you mentioned it earlier and I
was like and then just passed by and I was like, wait.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Really no, I like that can't be right. Yeah, this
is episode fifteen.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
You're hired.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, holy good, isn't that great?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
And then the first episode I think aired January fifteenth.
I found it. I found the very first Instagram account
that our Instagram photo on my on my Instagram that says.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Like, hey, Karen, I started a count.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I'm going to post it on the fifteen.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
But that's that's crazy. It's been almost a full yearly
in fifty episodes. Fifty episode.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
That means our live show at the Orse them is
going to be like, it's the seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Someone needs to know that it's the twenty My favor
murder dot com. Yeah, thanks, go ahead and visit that website.
Oh my god, it's our fifty. Isn't it the twenty eighth?
There's a twenty four. No, it's Stephen.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
This is why we hired you.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
This is the market edit. Wow, congratulations, thanks, congratulations to
you too, Thank you. I feel like it's not that
hard to make fifty podcasts. Oh, I'm sorry, Oh, I'm sorry,
fucking kidding me. Oh yeah, that's great. Great.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
I mean it's great because it's doing well and it's
not sad.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yep, God bless America. Who's going first?

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Karen can't?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Well, we just yeah, what, it's just good, it's cool,
it's good.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay, Yeah, am I going first?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
This? Wait? What's the date of the orphume show? It's
the twenty first. None of those guesses were right, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Vince and I recently had to look at the inscription
inside of his wedding ring to remember what day we
got married, and we were both wrong.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
That is inscription is smart. That's a good idea.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, thank god we did that because we were both
like the six. I was like, here's the four, and
it was a fifth, so we're awesome. Yeah, Oh my gosh,
this is when I'm moving out of my apartment.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
We're back. Sorry, Yeah, what's the whole thing with it's
a nightmare in the apartment before the show started. I
have no idea, like, because it was all you. Maybe
you were upset because you had to move and record.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, maybe it was just a mess, a big mess
of boxes and stuff and probably hot, who the fuck knows?

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, but probably hot.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah. Yeah, packing to move isn't fun. So oh, I
missed that apartment. I was wondering when we were going
to get to this. Yeah, and the last episode in
this apartment.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I had.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
A photo of it empty. And this is our fiftieth episode.
That's like a big I think it's a big deal
in the episode and you I still think it's a
big deal.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Fifty is I guess it's a big deal if you're
thinking about human weddings or something like that.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, can you imagine whispering to us you're gonna do
five hundred. You're gonna do more than You're gonna do.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
This for the rest of your life. There are so
many corrections corners in this episode.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Because we're gonna do my story first. I call it
the Summer set Man over and over again. It's not
the Summer set Man. No, which is a place in
California and a place.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
In the UK. Is that what you were thinking of? No?

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Probably not? Maybe, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, just sounds similar. But yeah, I mean it's me
apologizing for calling the Sandra Bullock movie six week notice.
But I actually said eight weeks notice, and the movie
is called two Weeks Notice? And whoever made I think
it was Sabrina who made this note, It says while
claiming to be her number one fan. So I am

(22:57):
the ultimate hypocrite because I don't know the names of
her movies, and I still will absolutely try to take
credit for being our number one fan.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
But a though, does that do both things have to
be true?

Speaker 2 (23:07):
No? Like you don't have to know them all. I mean,
thanks for letting me off the hook. I feel like
the real bullockheads would be like, get the fuck out
of here if you don't even know two weeks notice.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, maybe I just have like PTSD from dudes going
songs the band sing oh you really like them with songs?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
And I don't know the names of songs.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, because like you know, people just record it on tape,
so you don't know the names of the song. It's fine.
I'm not looking at the fucking liner of the note.
It's like a dork.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
I'm not here to prove my fandom to you another fan, right,
it can't be done. But then we don't even need
to spend time with that correction corner because I immediately
say that Dan Brown murdered Harvey Milk instead of Dan White,
which is a horrible thing to say about the man
who wrote my favorite book, The da Vinci can't just

(23:55):
kidding you.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Love DaVinci code and Sandra Bullock, Like those are Karen's.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I mean, that's who I am as a peer.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Need her security questions for passwords da Vinci three, five
four nine.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
All right, let's do it. Okay, So now we're going
to get into Georgia's story about the summer ten m man.
That's right, Stephen.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Part of your new job that we're hiring you for
is that you need to remember who went first last time.
Guy Brandon went first.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Last right, that's right, No one went first.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
New Year, Fresh start? All right, rock, paper, scissors, that's right, okay,
one two three, hit yeah, one two three, hit fuck
one two three hit get all right, first we got
scissors and then I got paper and she got rock.
Just guys, for those for those watching at.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Home, yeap, for those who have to know, all.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Right, well, this one is like I didn't want to
do this one because I feel like, well everyone not
like I do this a lot where it's like, well,
I've an obsessance I was a kid. So I'm like,
everyone knows this thing, but people keep asking us to
do it, and it's fucking fascinating and there's information that
one doesn't know about. So I'm like I got into it,
and I got really into it. Okay, cool, So this
is the Tammin shooed. Oh yes, the Summerset Man.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
We have just talked about.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
This, but we haven't gone into detail, right, so there's
some really interesting info about it. So I when they
get through the beginning.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
And have you solved it? I've solved it?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Oh great, Okay, well, of course I in my head
have solved that.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
You know exactly what you Okay.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
So on the morning of December one, nineteen forty eight,
a man's body is found on Summrton Beach, which is
in Australia. It's near Adelaide, which is like the fucking
has the best serial killers. The dead man is leaned
up against a wall. He's on the beach, leaned up

(25:53):
against a wall. He's wearing a suit and tie. He's
well dressed. There's an unlit cigarette on resting on his
collar as if he was just like about to smoke,
and then it fell out of his mouth when he died,
you know.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
So his feet are crossed.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
There's no signs of struggle or distress, and people walking
by had seen him and thought he was just drunk.
He was like propped up that way. He had no
identification on him. What he had on him was an
unused rail ticket or a bus ticket, a comb gum cigarettes,
and a scrap of paper with the phrase taman shoed

(26:30):
it's it's hard to find out exactly how to say this.
Tam and Shoed spell it t A m A N
s u A s h u d it's it's it's
not okay. It means finished in Persian okay. And the
labels had been clipped from his clothing. So the autopsy
doesn't find a cause of death, but notes that he

(26:51):
was in his forties, he had a fit physique, and
that they said that he had strong and high calf
muscles as if he were a dancer. It's just like me,
all right, But you can tell those things, supposedly. So
they take his railway ticket and they find his suitcase

(27:14):
at the train station, and they know it's his because
a spool of thread inside the case matches the thread
that he had used to repair one of his pockets,
and in the suitcases a shaving kit, clothes and a
coat was stitching that was specific to US tailoring, so
they thought he was from the US.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Also, he had.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Wrigley's juicy fruit gum.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Oh that's America.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
What if this whole time this had just been an
ad for Wrigley's use for gum. And they're like, you
can't tell it apart anymore, and only American men chewed
it back then Australian men didn't, so okay. So the
paper the tom enshued was torn out of a poetry book,
Persian poetry book that was extremely rare, and local librarians

(27:57):
identified the phrase as the very least two words. It's
the Rubaiyat of Omar Kayam. It's a book of poems
from the twelfth century by a Persian poet, and the
theme of this book is that one should live their
lives to the fullest and have no regrets when it
ends the becomen and the very last line it's almost

(28:19):
like saying the end was tom enshud, which is finished,
and for some fucking reason, that was in his pocket.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
So a dude comes forward and says that he had
actually found this book in the backseat of his car
around the same time and around the same place, Like
someone had tossed this book into the back seat of
his car, and it had those two last words ripped
out of it. And in the book that the guy

(28:48):
had found were a bunch of lines that were code.
It seemed to be code. They didn't make any sense,
but they're all capital letters, and the letters all kind
of seem like how English words would start. So the
theory is that the Somerton man was poisoned. There was

(29:09):
no trace of poison found in his system, but the
pathologists who performed the autopsy said that his spleen had
grown to three times its normal size and that his
liver was damaged, and he said, quote, I am convinced
the death could not have been natural. And he said
the poison I suggested was a barbituate or a soluble hypnotic,

(29:29):
which is sleeping pills. But no foreign substance was found
in his body. But most of these barbituates like kind
of go away within a couple of days, so it
seems like he was poisoned, but there was no poison
actually found in his body. And then codebreakers have tried
to solve the code that's in the actual book, and like, okay,

(29:51):
so there's these these like a bunch of letters and
they think it stands for it's time to move south,
it's time to move to South Australia Mosley, which is
like so stupid and I think that they just made
up like it sounds ridiculous. The letters are it T
and T and they came up with it that way
to mostly so you're.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Just saying it seems like they're just reaching for something
that it could mean. Yes, but however, homever.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Howmever, there's also a phone number, an unlisted phone number
in the book, and it belongs to a former army
nurse who lives on Moseley Street.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Oh it's not so stupid.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Maybe well maybe they knew that afterwards and made that up,
because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Okay, why,
I don't know, it's just like that's all.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Well, because is it? Because it's like the secret code
and then all it says is like a place it's
like not even that.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Interesting, yeah, or it's time to move to South Australia
Mosley Street.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Why would anyone need to code that well maybe maybe
it doesn't mean what it sounds like. It means like
maybe yeah in code where yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Where it's like move means something sinister. Okay, So the
down the street from where he dies is Mosley Street,
where it's a five minute walk to where the person
whose phone number where she lives. Her name is Joe

(31:16):
Thompson and she lives on Moseley Street. She when the
cops go there, she's like, oh, he is, But actually
I gave that exact book to Lieutenant Alfred Boxall, who
she had served with, so she doesn't know who this
person is. There's this fucking rare book of poems that

(31:37):
she had given him to someone she had served with.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
And just give a person the book of poems.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
No, no, No, they were probably boring, right.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
I mean that's not You're not like, oh here's the
rubiat Yeah, see you later, Powell.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
No, I give everyone a copy of fucking Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy that I fall in love with. No, No,
I don't poems. I mean I've done it, but I
doms are a big deal. If someone gives you a
book of pumpser into you and it's like it's a
rare book of beautiful poems. Yeah, she spent like forty
books at a bookstore for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like,

(32:12):
I don't know who that is, but that book sounds familiar.
I gave it to this dude, and so they they
are like, well, this dude must be the the Somerset Man.
But then he turns up in forty nine and he
still has his copy of his book, and so it's
not him, but he has a copy of the book,
like you know him, Okay, so.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
They could he sorry, could he just as a cover
have gotten a second copy? Like what if it was
just like they show a photo of it and it's
like duck taped.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Into the last of the book. He just like just
really shitty he's got and it's like written in yes,
totally yes what you're saying. So people started to speculate
that Lieutenant Boxall was working for the military intelligence at

(33:04):
the time, and maybe the Summerton man was a Soviet
spy and he was poisoned by Boxall or some other agent.
So he went to visit this woman who had given
this man a copy of the book, and they were
all spies and maybe you know, it's like it's really interesting. Okay,
but Boxall himself dismisses a quote as that's quite a

(33:26):
melodramatic thesis. Say that in Australian voice, I don't, I can't.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh, I can't, I can't. They always sound like everything
goes up at the end. They no matter what they're saying,
they sound like they're kind of excited even when they're
That's why I was listening. I told you, I was
listening to Case File over the break when I drove
to San Francisco. It's great and to listen to somebody
very seriously talk about murder but have their incline the
intonation go up at the end is so enjoyable to me.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Because it's like an exclamation mark at the end of
every sentence.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, just kind of sounds like everything's all right even
though it's murda.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Do you know what happened over the I forgot to
tell you this. At New Year's Eve, I was at
Joe Ross's house and there was an Australian girl there
who was from Adelaide, and I was like, I did
the thing of you guys have great murders, and she
was she wasn't, like, yeah, here's what I remember she.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Was like, oh I know, bye. She was very she
was very sweet.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
But by Australia has the best murders.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yes, tell me about that one million of them.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
So in two thousand and nine, speaking of University of Adelaide,
professor Derek Abbott, who's like this dude, who's like the
dude like who's obsessed with this now like nowadays he's
the guy cool you know what I mean. And he's
a professor that will help. Yeah, And he's a professor
at University of Adelaide and he's like, I'm going to
solve this, which sometimes is like bad because you're like
tunnel vision, but it's still interesting.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Still get into it.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
So Derek Abbott thinks that the key to the code
is in the actual book that they found, but the
addition that was near on the Summerset Man is so
rare that they can't find it a copy of that
to like know if it matches stuff, like you know
when they change chapters and they change wording and they

(35:11):
change the translation later like we can't find a book
that that's old, old enough to like match up to
this book, which is cool, like it could be I
don't know, it could be in there, but it's not
in the ones that we can buy, which I'm like,
can you imagine going to fucking us bookstore on finding
that book?

Speaker 2 (35:26):
And like Wright and also like have put on an
apb of like does anybody have the rubiat?

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Look your grandma library? Paren please send so you know
the rubiat? You fucking know about this? What the Rubiat?

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Like?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
That was amazing that you I didn't know what it
was called.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Oh oh, it's all knowledge.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
That doesn't help me in any way except for on
your podcast. Oh I'm sorry, except for on your career podcast.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Where was I?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Okay, so the original autopsy report, guess what it's lost?
They get lost. The government won't exhume the body, and
Abbot's trying really hard to get them to exhume the
body for DNA testing. What's the problem, Well that they
won't do it. Yeah, because they think they don't think

(36:15):
it'll catch a murderer. That's their thing, is like what
it's like, if there will be used to a murderer,
they'll exhume it, but if it's just to figure out
some mysterious clue, they won't do it. But okay, which
is like it's got to be expensive to ezum a body, right.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yes, And I understand that they don't want to disturb it.
That's there's a whole thing. But like, yeah, okay, I
see that.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Can I go on record and say, disturb the shit
out of my body if there's something mysterious clue that
needs to be solved, Oh.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
I'll dig you up so fast, flaw me out, call me.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'm gonna have a note taped to my body. I'm
not gonna tell you what it is.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I'm gonna get you one of those plots where you
can just it's never fully buried, like you can just
keep bringing the body up on little elevator.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Do you know about how they used to There were
so many there were so many bodies that got buried
that were still alive at a certain point that they
started bearing people with bells. Yes, right, yes, so that
if the bell there was a bell in the coffin
that went up to the surface surface, so there, if

(37:23):
you were fucking bared alive, you would ding it. But
then so many people would start decomposing with their finger
and the bell because they put it in there, and
the gases would move, shit and.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
No food ding the bell.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
How creepy would that be to like be the night
fucking monitor and just be like ding ding ding ding,
like which ones are I? Which one's not?

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Now this was around that time, This is like eighteen seventy. Yeah,
we're like everything was just so creepy back then. Yeah,
everything's creepy.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
It was like it was always night.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yes, it was always night. Women always have black lace
tails over their faces, legs everywhere. Dead children, piles of
dead children.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Oh my god, like you spect your kids to die,
you just you do it.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
You'd be like, hey, let's call you Timmy. Who really knows?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I'm going to farm you out to this rich couple
to be their servant.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Goodbye bye. Ultimately, Yeah, okay, good luck. Suck so dark.
Everything sucks, but it's the best. But it sucks, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Autopsy or report is lost? Okay, all right?

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
So, so Abbott notices, like in the photos of the
Somerset Man, he notices a couple things about him that
are strange. One is that his upper ear, like this
part right here that I'm pointing out that you can't
see on the podcast, is strangely shaped, and the formation

(38:43):
is shared by less than two percent of Caucasians. So
the upper lobe of the ear is larger than the
lower lobe of the ear, which is rare, okay, really
less than two percent.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Do you ever do that thing where you know, ears
are really the identify with people, like when you you know,
when they always have that things like cliss cage a
time traveler. Here's a picture of him his ear. Those
ears don't match, and you can like immediately if you
see and you think, could people be the same? Check
the ears for or like a.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Little like a kid corpse that like it went missing,
and like there's the photo of the kid, and there's
the photo of his body, and they're like, well, his
ear doesn't stay ear, does it? It's it they look
exactly the same. Yeah, fuck, dude, that's cool. Although I
know a guy in high school who got fucking tape
my ears back surgery.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Oh yeah, oh that's true. Is that sad? No?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
But that was not now. They don't do that now,
although they guess they could if they like kidnapped a
kid and like fix his ears, Well.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Me, you'd have to. Yeah, there's so many possibilities in life. Yes,
I know, I love that.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Okay, So he looks at the body, and he is like,
here are the ears.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
These are wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
And also he had a condition in which the so
these certain teeth are missing in the front, so that
your incisors, your pointy guys are right next to your
two front teeth, yeah, instead of having a buffer.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Right, So it's just like feng And it's again, less
than two percent of the population have this, and I
think it's hereditary. They don't prove anything on their own,
but so but Derek Abbott examines photos of the of
the son of the woman whose phone number is in

(40:24):
the book, who claims to have nothing to do with him.
Her fucking kid Robin has those same fucking abnormalities.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Both your an teeth both shit.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
And in addition to that, guess what he does for
a fucking living.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
He's a ballerina. Yep, are you kidding? Not fucking kidding? Okay,
blown mine? Am I wrong? What is she doing? Why
won't she be honest?

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Because something went wrong? Because maybe she was a spy
and so is he. And he came back around and
was like, what's up? I'm hearing because he was in
town for like he came into town, like they had
bus tickets in the suitcase thing that showed that he
was just fucking visiting. So he came into town for her.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Oh if you believe these theories.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yes, So he came into town to confront her, or
to see her, or to fucking threaten her, or to
fucking blackmail her or whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Or to make her nice dinner.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, And she was like, I don't I don't want dinner.
I'm gonna put poison in your food.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Whoa something? Oh yeah, because he was poison and could
have been her. That's why she's lying.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
It doesn't come up ever in any any web page
that you find, but in my mind, yeah, I could have.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
She's in the mix.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
She's in up in that mix. Okay. So so his daughter,
so her daughter, her son Robin, who they think is
the kid, passes away in two thousand and nine, and
his daughter Kate is on sixteen Minutes in twenty thirteen
saying that his grandma had fucking known this dude, the
summerchan Man, and that they both might have been spies

(42:07):
and she had no evidence of that, but she also
said that she thought that this guy was her dad's father. Huh, yeah,
like she the granddaughter believes it the best. Like I
love this part of the story. Maybe I should save it.
It's like a realief. Okay for what next time? It's
just a cute no for the end, because it makes

(42:28):
it less sad. Oh oh, okay, yeah, I'm gonna save it.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
So they're trying to get Australian government to exhume the body.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
They want fucking do it.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
He looks British and parents, he's his age, she's in
good physical I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
This is all like they're saying, there's no reason to
do it.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, maybe he wasn't murdered. The thing is that the
kid was a fucking ballet dancer and the original autopsy
said he had great calfs and looked like a fucking
ballet dancer, which is like, and those two other fucking things,
come on, please did you?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
So let's see I.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Didn't edit this as well as I should have. Okay, Okay.
So they're they're now trying to test the DNA of
the daughter of this woman, I mean the granddaughter of
this woman. But they don't have the DNA of the
Summerton man. So but they think that they're related.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Okay, So the DNA was anything of him?

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Do you know, I think they made a bust of
his face, and you can go online and see a
really amazing I think, what an amazing fucking autopsy face photo.
It's like post mortem like photo. And to me, I mean,
this is so stupid. I've always thought he looks like
my grandfather, who was a Eastern European immigrant. Like I've

(43:49):
always thought he looks like that. So maybe he was
a spy for fucking Germany and World War Two, but
who knows.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
So.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Oh so, in the bust they made of him, there's
some hairs, but I don't think they can get the
DNA out of it, so that's why they're trying to
ExHAM him. But they test the DNA of the granddaughter
and it turns out that that she might be related
to like Thomas Jefferson, which if it is, if he
is related, he's from America.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Oh okay, basically, so didn't even know that from the
Juicy Fruit, Yeah we thought that.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
But also it's interesting because if they find someone who
is related and they have an uncle who disappeared, then
we'll fucking know who it is, oh right, I mean,
which is really cool. They believe she had an affair.
They were maybe their respies, maybe they weren't. But the
fucking best part of this whole story. So that's what
that's basically what it is.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
We don't know that.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
The last news story I can get from this is
from October of twenty sixteen. Oh and it says they're
testing the DNA and this and the doctor who seems
really fucking cool named Fitzpatrick, her last name. It's a
shit she her name is Fitzpatrick, is going to do
a whole thing about it, and she never did, like,
can't find it. But so the granddaughter Kate and Derek

(45:06):
Abbott who's trying to find the DNA, and the story
of this. The professor got married. Yeah, I had three babies.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
What bella in love? What?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
How cute is that?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
What if he's just using her? He's not for DNA.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Every night she's like, I just I have these dreams
of my cheek being swabbed.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
And I just know I just like you tips.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
I love plucking your hair, darling. I mean, who has
another boyfriend wants to pluck your hair? Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Everybody's go through that.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, And there's always a bowl in the toilet that
catches your pee.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
It's like I means just the thing. It's standard, that's
actually very sweet.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So like he goes to like he goes there to
like fucking find out what's going on. I'm going to
interview the granddaughter and she's like, here's this information. I
believe it too, and.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Then and then they make out, and then they're just
like in the stacks trying to find oh my good files,
and she's feeling how cute is that? Oh my god,
it's precious. That's like the best, Like that's so you'd
read a book about that and you're like, come on,
shut up. Well, also, because everything about else about this
case is so frustrating. First of all, are we sure
we haven't done this before? Because I feel like all

(46:11):
of that was so familiar.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
We've talked about it.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
We've talked about it. I know I listened to it
on thinking sideways. Yes, it's sure.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
That's why I didn't want to do it, is it's
this thing happened, like Okay, I want to say, like
when Jamie Lee was on the live episode, she did
a story that I think is fascinating that I would
never do because I feel like we need to do
stories that nobody knows about.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I disagree. I know, I know, and I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
And when Jamie said she was going to do it,
the audience fucking cheered, and I was like, oh, we
can actually do stories that people know about. We're just like,
what amna find it? I know, I totally know, totally.
So when I found that out, I was like.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
But then me just saying this right now is like
convincing you otherwise basically.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
No, you're corract Oh I totally think you're.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, I mean me saying it sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
No, I mean I did John Benet like I can
do this. Yeah, so it's fine, Yeah, I just what
was the point? Oh, yeah, so we've heard about it.
You and I have heard about it. I said, Devince,
have you ever heard about this case? And he was
like no, no.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
So also, it's so vague. It's like, so a dead
guy is there and he's got these weird items on him,
and he may be this and he may be that,
but he might just be a dead guy dude that
like there's you like a lot of stuff, a lot
of like way things have been painted on, Like he
could be a spy and it could be this, and
it could be that, could be just a dead guy.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
I didn't find poison in his body, right, he could
have he could have killed him.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, I mean he splained himself out one night, just spleined.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
You just explain yourself.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
You better splain yourself to melain yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
No, it's one of those stories that I think everyone
knows the first three paragraphs of from like Snopes or whatever,
or from fucking read it, but the like weird details
of it, and the people like this guy who are
still trying to fucking figure it out, who I think
are going to be disappointed when they find out.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Well, Also, I think it's the fear. I think the
interest is everyone has the fear. What if for some
reason you died and no one could figure out who
you were. It's so sad weird thing that would be. Oh,
I think it's cool.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, I think to me, like in it sounds like
what's it's true that he impregnated this woman, he came
to confront her somehow, who knows how he knew her,
why she said she didn't know him. Those things are suspicious,

(48:33):
suspicious to me. Whatever happened was a bummer, and he
went and killed himself or drank himself to death. Or
some fucking thing and died there. Yeah, and she it's
just weird that she wouldn't admit to knowing him. Maybe
she didn't want scandal of being pregnant on wedlock.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I don't know. It's fascinating. This summer summer Tin Man.
What's the actual name of it. The name of the
whole case is the tom and Shoot, but he's being
called the what man.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Summerton Man. That's the beach he was found on.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Okay, Summerton Beach.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
And I feel like if I ever did a corrections corner,
I'd have a lot of them for next fucking week.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Hey, come on over to the corner. We have a
great time over here. Well cares Okay, we're back. Do
you have any case updates for the Somerton Man.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
I do, and I said in twenty seventeen, there are
also corrections, so here we go. In twenty eighteen, using
the strands of hair that were pulled from the Summrton
Man's plaster bust, Derek Abbott and doctor Colling Fitzpatrick were
able to finally extract a DNA sample, which is like
so fascinating. By twenty twenty two, they had used this

(49:46):
sample to painstakingly build out a family tree with more
than four thousand people on it, before landing on what
they believe is the Somerton man's name, Carl Webb, which
they have a fucking name. Finally, and I guess he goes.
Charles Abbot and doctor Fitzpatrick theorized that Webb, who was
from Melbourne and worked as an electrical engineer, came to

(50:06):
South Australia to find his ex wife, Dorothy Gene Robertson,
after she fled their home. According to their divorce papers,
he was moody, violent and wrote many poems about death,
claiming it was.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
His greatest desire.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
But there are still many questions, including how he died.
It's still unclear if his death was a suicide, natural causes,
or foul play. This just sounds like one of the
historical fictions that I love to read, like say what happened?

Speaker 2 (50:34):
I love this.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
It's just fascinating.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I mean, it's super weird that a person would be
judged by the terrible poetry they write in life. That's
not fair.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
If you're a violent man, that's what you get.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well, that's very true. The rest of his history belies
something different, but writing bummer poetry doesn't really dictate who
you are as a person.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
And then back in twenty twenty one, is Fitzpatrick and
Abbott were still building out the family tree. Adelaide authorities
exhumed the Sumrchon Man's body while conducting their own separate
investigation into his identity, but it's unclear where the police
investigation stands as of May twenty twenty five, and in
any case, the police released a statement acknowledging their identification,
with a spokesperson emphasizing that the department was quote still

(51:14):
actively investigating the Somerton Man coronial matter. So some people
don't believe it. Some people are skeptics.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
But he is identified. They're saying yeah, they're saying he's not. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
I think that maybe they're still investigating his death, but
they agree that that's who it is. I don't know.
And then also a minor correction, Professor Derek Abbott did
not marry the daughter of Nurse Joe Kate, which I'm like,
we loved that piece.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I think.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yeah, he married Robin's daughter, Rachel Egan. So there's still
romance happening in the Sumrton Man story, which is exciting, Yeah,
that's good. All right, so we now know who he is.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, I mean at least like a year's decades long
mystery is solved. Yeah, satisfying if that is who he is.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, definitely all right to get into Karen's story one
of your famous cult stories, the bog Wan Tree raj Niche.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
All right, do you want to hear mine? Mine's weird
this week? And this is the one I've been working
on for so many weeks when I never I can
never figure out how to put it together. It's like
such a long, tad by involved thing. No, No, it's weird. Okay.
It's the Bogwan Shree raj Niche and the raj Niche

(52:36):
porn community that they set up in central Oregon in
the early eighties.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I know some of those words.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
All right, let me walk now. Oh my god, I'm exciting.
And it's not there's not an actual murder, it's attempted murder.
But the whole thing is so crazy and it's a story.
It's a news story. I remember standing in front of
the TV watching and listening to my parents get super
weirded out because essentially what happened was this, So the

(53:07):
Bogwan tree. Rajnish was born in nineteen thirty one as
Chandra Malhan jane Jai n And He began his career
as a philosophy professor in India and in the sixties
he traveled throughout India as a public speaker and he
was a critic of socialism. He was a critic of

(53:28):
Bondie and institutionalized religions. He often spoke against Jesus, calling
him both a salesman and a madman. And he transitioned
from professor to guru when he noticed there's a lot
of money to be made off of unhappy, wealthy Westerners
that would come to India searching for spiritual meaning in

(53:48):
their lives. Namen so soon he built a thriving enterprise
with his lectures and group therapies. He was pro materialism.
What Yeah, he was like change. He was the change
it up guru. So he was pro somewhat.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
I just see the meme of him like sitting on
fire and it's.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Just up with his big weird eyes. He was pro materialism.
He was I said, anti organized religion. And he was
an advocate for a more open attitude toward human sexuality.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, he was.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
He was I mean, if he could only see Tumblr today,
he would be so proud of the leaps and bounds.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
To me, that's him saying you have to fuck me.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Well, that's exactly you know what I well he got.
He became known as the sex Guru in the press,
which his argument was, I've written two books on human
sexuality and thirty eight books on meditation, but you call
me the sex guru because he's he was all about
how Westerners were so puritanical and stuffy.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
He's clearly never was fucking watched Bob's Burgers and drank
the glass of wine, which is like sometimes better than sex.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I mean, I mean, it could be argued, but but
he was doing things like he was getting his little
groups together, and then suddenly the idea was, maybe you're
so you're so pent up about your sex that maybe
people need to have sex in front of me so
that we all stop being so pent up about sex.
It's basically this, this whole thing is the study in

(55:19):
you know, ultimate power corrupts up. Absolute power creeps absolutely
get it wrong. It's the easiest saying to remember because
it's the same words at the beginning of the end.
And I still got it wrong. Absolute power corrupts absolutely so. Also,
he had millions of dollars in unpaid taxes, so he

(55:39):
had to get the fuck out of India.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
How did he have money to begin?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
He was because he was charging all these people to
come and be in his classes and workshops and listen
to his him giving these speeches, learn how to meditate.
Yoga hadn't been a thing yet, so they were learning
about yoga's like the secret, you know, amazing practice that would.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Be to like, like I have a couple thousand bucks,
but to be millions in fucking debt, like you are
living your best life.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Hells, Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Yeah, because you're beyond Yeah, you're not like you don't
live in a fucking hovel.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
I want to owe millions.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
You will someday, thank you. So what they did was
they decide they're going to leave India and come to America.
And so the plan is that he's going to build
a utopian city for himself and two thousand of his
followers in south central Oregon. Yes, it makes perfect sense

(56:35):
to me too. Well, so it's not south central Oregon
is empty. They were basically three hours east of Salem,
east and south of Salem. So they were in this
kind of central valley that was super empty. It was
just a bunch of ranches and a lot of the
ranches had fallen into disrepair. So they were there. It
was almost like a desert ish situation because they had

(56:59):
just like over grazed the fields and stuff like that
was all very brown and kind of shitty.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Oh yeah, so thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Right, so they move in and the plan was they
were going to build housing compounds, warehouses and support buildings
so that their business enterprises that were once based in
India could move to south central Oregon. And they initially
applied for a permit to build housing for ninety people,

(57:28):
but soon they they moved there and the numbers were
in the hundreds immediately. And when he arrived, the Bagwan
trie raj Niche he came to America and he was
on a three He was doing a three year silent,
I don't know, meditation. He wasn't talking and so his

(57:51):
voice was a woman named ma anand Shila. Her real
name was Sheila Patel. She came from a very wealthy
family in India and she was kind of like his
right hand man, and so she made the deal to
buy the Big Muddy Ranch in right outside of Antelope

(58:11):
in Oregon. And she was soft spoken and charming, and
she hosted a dance in the nearby town of Madras
where cowboys partied until dawn. She curried favor buying fifty
head of cattle from the Wasscou County commissioner, even though
the commune was a vegetarian. You know, she was like
making deals, kissing babies, and she basically closed the deal

(58:35):
so that they could build their farming commune. But what
she didn't know was that Oregon had very strict state
zoning laws that really limited how many people and buildings
could be erected onto ranch land based on the amount.
So as this development grew, they they kept having to

(58:59):
apply for more building permits, and they kept going to
the politicians and saying, oh, you know, we're just we're
just a farming commune, but we need more living quarters
for the workers because this is there's so much abused
range land that we need more people to help us
fix it. And the problem was that they were basically

(59:25):
a bunch of rich, like college educated, well off kind
of like it was pre yuppy. It was early yuppies.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
It was like post hippie, yeah, pre yuppy.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Yeah. They were the people. They were the people that
eventually became yuppies that were like, Oh, we don't have
to live on the commune. We can just go to
yoga classes. But at that time they were kind of
like they had the hangover from the sixties of like
the whole hippie thing had fallen apart, and then the
Vietnam War bummed everybody out, and that's why a lot
of people went in India in the first place to

(01:00:01):
be like what the fuck is life? Like, what is
anybody doing?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Suddenly taxes were for them were fucking nothing. What do
you mean, Like they had Reagan so taxes for rich?

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Oh right, nothing, and they were doing things like yeah
they had they were rich, so they would sell their
Porsche and send their money to the ranch and then
go live there. And they didn't. They just worked for free.
So it was like they were giving all their materialistic stuff.
They were like, well, I'm going to help out and

(01:00:32):
that's going to make me feel better spiritually, and then
they can kind of escape like the structured world of
taxes and having a job and all that stuff. They're
going to put their whole life into this commune.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
With the safety net of knowing that they could fucking
leave it at any point if they wanted to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Yeah, because their parents still live in a really nice
house in like Marina del Rey or whatever. They all
had to wear red, pink red, or maroon clothing. And
when they joined up, like this was the change they
would I can't, I can't. There's a word for it.
Joining up is not it, But like they would go
through like something and then initiation, it's like an initiation.

(01:01:09):
The Bagwa shu Rajnich would put a mendela around their neck,
which is a beaded wooden necklace that would have a
big picture of them, of him on the on it.
And so they were like all these so all these
people wearing red with these wooden bead necklaces suddenly start
showing up in central Oregon. And if you've ever been

(01:01:31):
to anywhere like this, or even central California, it's like
a little strip of Arkansas right here on the west coast.
Like it's very farm it's very republican, it's very conservative.
It's it's people who live far away from other people.
They like things their way and they don't want a
bunch of fucking weirdo rich hippies in red clothing coming

(01:01:54):
into their town thirty forty eighty at a time. And
that's exactly what was happening. So it's kind of awesome
because and they were all wearing red so and like
with shit in their hair and like, and they weren't
it wasn't a hippie thing. Like, they weren't like drugged out,
like hey, peace love. They were kind of like trying
to trying to take.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Over you see. Did you watch The Leftovers?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
I did, like the first I'd say the first seven episodes, but.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
The first people in the light clothing that were like
the smoking Yeah, yes, it sounds like that to me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah, just so creepy where they kind of like when
you see, there's tons of great documentaries about this whole thing,
and there's great footage, but it's there is a lot
of that, Like there's a little of the Leftover and
like dancing in Golden Gate Park like ecstatic dancing and
group kind of hangouts and stuff, but it's so much more.

(01:02:48):
There's so much more of a business aspect to it.
You can tell that they're trying to monetize spirituality.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Well, the difference between a seventies cult and an eighties
cult is so probably so fucking different, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
For sure, and this one had that thing of like
they just started showing up in droves and freaking locals
out badly, sure, and in their weird red clothing, and
they were kind of like even the one documentary I
was watching, the guy who now is probably in his
like late sixties seventies gray hair, like clearly not in
it anymore. But so they were just aggressive because they

(01:03:22):
were just so quick to be like, well, you you
were a racist, or you were against our religion, or
you were anti you know, you were xenophobic or whatever.
It's like, yeah, maybe except for that. If you were
starting a commune with ninety people, that's one thing. But
basically they ended up having two thousand followers on this
trade of the town they infiltated a town Antelope and Madras,

(01:03:45):
where they're like kind of their two closest towns, And
so basically what happened is instead of it being a
small commune, they turned into this big thing and they
had to keep going to the city and applying for
more permits and more permits and saying we needed for this,
we need oh sorry, we didn't realize and we just
need it for this, And so the city had to
start going no, like this is crazy, this this land

(01:04:07):
is not zoned for you guys to start a city, essentially,
and at first they were trying to be they didn't
want to come off as like hicks and like people
who are like against outsiders. They didn't want to come
off that also them coming there, they actually did the
thing that they were saying they were building. They built

(01:04:30):
a dam, they brought the water table up, like the
whole the entire valley that they lived in became bright green.
When you see these, it's kind of amazing these helicopter
shots of the area and it's like bright green. And
they have like or they started organic farming, so it's
like kind of a mass organic farming, where somebody in

(01:04:52):
this documentary was saying, once they had everything built up
and there was like a main street and there was
there was a mall, they had a mall, they had restaurants.
They would give tours to locals, like you can come
and see what we're doing. We're not like trying to
be hide anything that in the around Central Organ. They'd
be like, the only good place to eat is it
as Rajnicheorum was the name of the town, or you know,

(01:05:16):
would eventually they tried to make into a town. People
would go there to eat because it was like really
good organic food. It was kind of like the original
the original farmed a table situation, but they were doing
it with this. It was a culty version of it essentially,

(01:05:37):
because they still did, you know, and he also the
Bogwan tree. Rajniche would just come out and sit there,
but he wasn't talking, so he wasn't like preaching or
saying anything to anybody they would like. And sometimes he
just wouldn't come out at all, Like so he in
the when he first got there, he would make appearances,
but then after a while he just wasn't doing it.

(01:05:57):
And basically there was just a bunch of people like
manual labor farming and doing shit for free and dedicating
their whole life to like building up this what eventually
was becoming a city.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
That's what I was thinking, is I bet the locals
would be so much more stoked if you are bringing
in jobs, but you're not, you're just higher, you know,
everyone who just is a fucking cult member is doing
it for you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
The people it was good for were people that owned
back hos and like big like Caterpillar earth movers. There
was a couple people it was good for, but not
on the whole. No, on the whole, it was like.
And the other problem was so they they wanted these permits,
they wanted to keep expanding, and they started being told no.
So they started infiltrating, like the local government. So they

(01:06:47):
would go in and like demand, they would demand to
see permits or files or papers at the Waco County courthouse.
And there's two people that work there because it's like
a courthouse in the middle of nowhere in this county
that does not that many people, and forty of them
would go down and be like, we demand to see it.
So it started. It started off very aggressive and of

(01:07:09):
course made it was already like you're all wearing red
and jumping around, and now you're like, we want to
see this, we want to do this. Then they have
they have elections and they end up electing a bunch
of the rajniches as they're called, onto the city council
or onto the whatever county whatever. It would be a

(01:07:29):
county people county group so that they suddenly now are
the ones that are because they're trying to get their
people in so that they get told yes, because what
they want to do. They really did want to build
a city and they wanted to bring more and more
people there, and they're starting to make serious money. And
the other reason they said that they had the tours

(01:07:49):
is because they want to make sure parents who like
those rich parents were talking about, could come and see
where their children were and what they were dedicating in
their life to. There wasn't some secret cult that they
could come and shop in the mall and buy a
bunch of red clothes if they wanted to, or eat
their organic pizza or whatever, and that everything was chill,

(01:08:10):
and then they'd dance around astatically, there'd be discos. There
was like a whole thing, and then they'd leave going,
I guess it's fine, and keep on giving them the money.
And they were making a shit fucking ton of money. Now.
The other thing was that the Bogwa tree regniche said
when he he went into silence, and he put that

(01:08:30):
woman on on Chila who was also known as Shila
Silverman because she was from India, but she had married
an American here and she you know, was an American citizen.
I guess man on Sheila. Whoeveryone called Sheila. She was

(01:08:50):
in charge. And then he had four other women beneath her,
and they ran the entire city. And his he the
Bogwan Trie Regeni, said he wanted a city run by women,
and he wanted like strong, strong women to be in power.
And what would a city look like if women, if
it was a matriarchy basically, So everyone's kind of like

(01:09:12):
into that idea because what harm could there be if
and they had these women that were the tour guides
that when you went there to see the cult your
child had just moved to and started wearing all red clothes,
it would be all these beautiful they called themselves the Twinkies,
and they would guide you around and be like, here's
the look, here's the mall, and here's this, and I'm
really pretty and we're all great and we eat lettuce

(01:09:32):
all the time and everything's good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
That's our fucking tour, the twinky tour.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
So it's just all they're trying to make sure people
have positive it's positive pr all the time. The problem
is the Jonestown cults, and the Jonestown massacre had only
happened three years before. So aside from locals being locals
and not being that into a bunch of hippie weirdos

(01:10:00):
coming into their town, everybody, the press, everybody was scared
of anything like that happening in America.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
And it was close to San Francisco where Jonestown started, right, yeah,
I mean it was relatively.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Not really like a plane flight away, a long car
right away, but still but yes, closer than other places.
And yes, that's where, right you could drive up the
five and get there. But yes, I mean it's that
sensitivity of however, many people died of Jonestown eight hundred
or something like that, hundreds. They're not going to just

(01:10:37):
let a bunch of people, you know, getting super into
this one religion and starting a city about it, because
it's also the thing of the separation of church and
state and that idea of like what's actually behind this.
The other thing, too, was that they were making so
much money that the Bogwan tree Reginiche. One of his

(01:11:00):
favorite things was rolls roces, and so by nineteen eighty
four he had the largest private collection of rolls royces
in America, he had ninety four Holy thought, who the fuck?
And that was his pro materialism thing. It did seem
like other people got to be very materialistic though, because
I don't think they were getting paid to like fucking
run those back hoes and like run entire huge lettuce

(01:11:22):
farms or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
You don't fucking buying ninety four rurals rices with fucking
lettuce farms.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
No, No, there's some serious cash getting stacked that he
gets to spend. So his thing was he they were
because the relationship between the citizens of the central Oregon
and the Rajniches was getting, you know, heated, heated. Let's

(01:11:51):
say he no longer was doing making appearances. So what
he would do was get into one of his many
rolls rooices and dry and so he would just drive
down the road and all the Rajnisches would line up
in their weird clothes and they would jump and stand
and clap and sing and whatever, and he would drive
by and wave to them and drive with no hands.

(01:12:12):
He would do his hands in prayer hands and then
bow to them as he was driving them by. And
that was the really famous like that's what I remember
as like you know, a twelve years old radio yo. Yeah,
you can watch all this on you two. It's pretty amazing.
And they and they showed it on the news all
the time because it was this thing. I was like, oh,
this is an interesting starting up up in central organ

(01:12:35):
and then I was like, hey, have you seen this lately?
Well then after a while, their side of things say
that they tried to have a festival and the local
authorities said, you can't have a festival unless you have
a security force, and so they started walking around with Oozzi's.
So when the he would go to do his drive,

(01:12:56):
there would be two dudes with like all the red clothes,
but then with like brat to the side carrying Oozzi's.
Is there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Rays are fucking always bad.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Rays are not a good sign, nah dude. So so
so they basically have their own security force and it
was serious enough where they got trained at the State
Police Academy. They went off and got trained as a
security force and came back. Makes me feel better though,
I mean, yeah, they called themselves a peace force.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Because you need Uzzi's when you're a fucking peace force.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
I mean. Now, the other thing is they were getting
threatened a lot of course, you know a lot of letters,
a lot of phone calls, and they owned a hotel
in Portland that got bombed. They got firebombed. So once
the fire bombing started happening, there was more and more
guns that and like the security force thing kind of
came up more and more.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Anyone die in that because I wonder if they did
themselves to like be like to get sympathy or like
get a reason to get those guns.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Would they actually would use the negative press when they
when they would like something like that, anything where it
showed that the locals or people of Oregon were like
after them because there were protesters that would be on
the city. They would be like, get the hell out
of town. They would take that footage and send it
to the other I want to say ash Rams, but

(01:14:17):
I don't know if that's the right word. There are
other hangouts around the country and around the world, sex
sex sext. I wonder if those they would send that
footage so that and then go look how we're being
attacked in it, and they would send them money.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
But I wonder if those protesters were fucking Ashram dudes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Oh, I like it, like so they're just propaganda. Could
be I believe, but I think that people were super like,
get the fuck out of here, like, what are you
guys doing? So but here's where they went wrong. They
there was a big important vote coming up, so they
started busting in homeless people from all around the country
to come and live at the Raja in the city.

(01:15:03):
They were saying that they were doing it for this
their spiritual life and because they wanted them to. But
these were all just homeless people that they were finding
on the streets. And these people would get there and
they'd be given clothes, they'd be given three hots and
a cot and be like, hey, you can go. You
can go work on the lettuce farm and have something
to do. And there's it's sad. There's guys that like
talk to the cameras and be like, yeah, there's nothing

(01:15:25):
for me out there. I might as well be here
and actually have something to do, and like, I'm not,
I don't have to worry about getting stabbed on the streets. Sure,
so they ended up busting in four thousand homeless plea
fuck so that in the next Wasco County election, they
basically take start to take over politics. And what ends

(01:15:47):
up happening is the people that were in place, you know,
the people that were already the county supervisors or whatever
they are, did this thing where when everybody showed up
to vote that day, they said, if you are newly
registered to vote, you we're putting a like a ban
on your vote and you and we were taking this
to court.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
That's not how that works.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Well, but you can do, I guess there's some some circumstances.
They were like pulling out an old law or whatever,
like saying you can vote, but you have to first
go to this trial and like be it a hearing
to prove that you're here to vote, that you're really
a citizen of this of the city. Because they knew
exactly what they were doing, and so then they tried
to turn it into this woman Sheila tried to be like,

(01:16:30):
I'm voting for you. This is because a lot of
these people were like Vietnam vet, Yeah, homeless people. I mean,
they were the people that had been screwed over truly
by society. And so conceptually it was a really nice idea.
But once that happened, and of course nobody was going
to go to the hearing. Nobody was going to go
sit there and be talk to a judge about how

(01:16:52):
they yes, they were here and they were really a
citizen and blah blah blah. So so few of them
went that an and like ninety five percent of the
locals showed up to vote, you know, highest voting turnout
ever for the actual locals. That that none of the
Rajini She's won anything, and it went completely in favor

(01:17:13):
of the localsps. Yeah, well then they just dump all
these homeless guys. Most of them went to Portland, but
they just they just sent them out of town, oh
my god, and dump them in just like close by,
and like no local places of like well here you
go didn't work by. Yeah, and that's when it all

(01:17:34):
started to fall apart, where it was like, yeah, all
of this, like you could say that you're doing this
for the spirituality. That would be a beautiful thing if
there's a place for people to go who are homeless,
who are on the streets and have nowhere to go.
But this is clearly not a charity or anything. You're
not going to let these people come here and stay.
You were clearly using them. Yeah that sucks. And yeah,

(01:17:55):
once that vote didn't turn out the way they wanted it,
to it all got exposed. The other thing that happened
was that they went to check on the housing. The
local sheriff want to check on the housing for these
people because there was kind of like a tent city.
They didn't have enough like building housing for them because

(01:18:16):
there's so many, but they did have tent like tent
housing that they used during their festivals. And so the
sheriff was going up there to make sure that there
was like proper housing from that many people. And when
they got up there, there was like a huge caterpillar
earth mover that was blocking the entire road, and the
sheriff had to basically turn around and go back to town.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
So they were like an actual caterpillar and I got
so excited jameson the giant feech.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Oh, but a caterpillar that huge though, great, go on, Sorry,
that's upsetting. I know them. It would be all like Furrey.
So anyway, they basically are like, we got to call
in higher ups. This is crazy and something's really happening. Yeah,
so sorry, I have to get to my page. So

(01:19:06):
they have officials from around the county go and visit
and be like, what the hell is going on? And
while they were there. I'm trying to find the name.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Can you while you're looking? Yes? Can you imagine? So
the governor of was it the governor of San Francisco
who went to Jonestown to check on everyone?

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Yeah? I don't think he was the governor may he
was something. Yes, he was a big wig.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
So he shows up to check on his citizens who
had moved to Jonestown and he ends up getting shot
and killed by which triggered and started off the Jonestown massacre.
Can you imagine? And that was three years before those
fucking city officials being like, we're looking into this shit.

(01:19:59):
How terrifying must that be?

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Yes? And a lot of them talk about it. It's
really an interesting thing worth watching because they were so scared.
At first, they were scared to look like racists and
to look like people that were just rejecting people can't.
But then after a while they knew that they couldn't,
Like they knew that this had turned into a thing
that that was beyond just them, like going in and

(01:20:22):
arresting people, that that was not possible. Yeah. And the
sheriff who at the time, I mean like, now he's
aged very well, because now he must be like in
his late sixties, and at the time he was like
in his thirties, and he was like. Someone goes, well,
are they like a person from the Presco's are they
blocking the road? And he goes, I don't know they're
blocking it, but I mean it's blocked, so I guess

(01:20:44):
we'll just go Like they're absolutely not trying to be
in conflict with these people, but at this point it's
like a welfare check, yes exactly, like they're trying to say, yeah,
we just want to make sure everything is kind of
it's what you're claiming it is. Well, then Sheila shows
up and she's like she's like kind of in everybody's face.
It's pretty interesting too when you see her. She gets

(01:21:06):
interviewed a couple times and she actually picks up her
hand and points into the face of the interviewer or
into the camera where it's like aggressive, what are you doing? Yeah,
like if this is also chill and spiritual, but you
can tell she's like it turned into like, yeah, we're
like you're fighting for your commune. But after a while
that's not really what's happened is a power moves and

(01:21:27):
a power grab, like they're trying to take over like
they want they want they want the state for themselves,
or they want the area for themselves. Okay, So anyway,
I can't find this guy's name. Basically basically the fuck
the oh, I don't have the name, but it's three

(01:21:50):
county commissioners. So they went to tour the ranch and
while they were there, they were given glasses of water.
And when they get home they become seriously ill. Come
on and they had been poisoned with salmonella. Holy fuck.
But they can't prove that it like, they can't prove it,
Like they get very ill, and then they're just kind

(01:22:12):
of out and then so that they can't go to work.
Then it took them a full year to like tie
it all back and get all the proof. Then around
central and southern Oregon there are reported seven hundred and

(01:22:32):
fifty one cases of salmonella and people forty five people
were hospitalized. There were no fatalities, but all of these
people got it like one after the other. And it
turned out that Rajnichies were going out to restaurants and
sprinkling salmonella onto salad bars and putting it into salad dress.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
How do you get salmonilla to sprinkle. Don't know in
my mind, like you have to ring out a steak
into a fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
I mean, they had this setup that they had on
these farms. Yeah, and these ranches. I mean, I don't know.
I could not tell you, but they figured it out.
And I mean like they could have had like labs
or other things on these farms. I'm not sure. All
they know is that they were that these salad bars
were poisoned. And the idea was that they were going

(01:23:26):
to keep voters from the Okay, it was the idea, Jesus.
And then the Uh. The last thing that happened, which
I think is kind of amazing, is a raji she
named ma Anan Pooja heard that politician James Kameni was

(01:23:48):
at Saint Vincent Hospital, so she went there and the
idea was that she was going to inject a deadly
mixture into his intervenous tube that would stop his heart.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Holy fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
But when she arrived, uh, and when got into his
hospital room, she saw that he didn't have an intervenous hookup,
that he was just laying in the bed. So she
just panicked and turned around and left. But they act
the plan was. They later found out when they raided
the place and got all the like secret documents and
everything that the plan was they were going to kill him.

(01:24:24):
Oh my god. Yeah, this was so basically this was
Sheila's plan to like take over war again. So where
is she fucking fled? She fled to West Germany. Dear. Oh.
Actually when they when the cops finally got in, the
ultimate plan was they were going to put poison into
Oregon's water supply, uh, and people. They also had all

(01:24:51):
of the rooms bugged at the ranch and they were
they had like files on Rajni She's in the ranch,
so they like they weren't only going to do harm
to outsiders. They also were like keeping people in line
and doing weird shit within the ranch, Like there was
a lot of crazy shit going on. The Bogwan tree
shri Resniche she basically left. He came out and like

(01:25:17):
agreed with the like it cooperated with the authorities, told
him everything broke his three year silence, uh, and then
basically tried to get onto a plane. Uh. And he
tried to flee by lear jet. A plane came in
and it was a big enough place where they could

(01:25:37):
land a plane, and then they got off there was.
The flight plan was that they were going to refuel
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and then they were going to
go back I guess to India. But Charlotte, they landed
and the cops arrested him good and they deported him
because he was the whole time he was on a
visa that was like had expired long ago. Then they

(01:25:58):
found her and she served three years of a sentence
before she was deported off of US soil and the
Bagwan Tree. Regenich died in nineteen ninety The camp was
converted into a Christian camp. But uh so it's legit now. Yeah,

(01:26:19):
But then in nineteen ninety six it was destroyed by
fire and all all of the structures were destroyed. Damn it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
That'd be so cool to do a live episode from there.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
Oh my god, can you imagine we drive up to
that lake. But also just to keep your eyes peeled,
because he eventually before he died, he changed his name
to Oshow, which is actually a Japanese honorific. It's and
so if you see quotes on the internet from Oshow,

(01:26:51):
it's actually the Bogwan Treep. Yeah, just so you know
it's not some wise Japanese stage from long ago. What
does he quote shot on the internet. Yeah, you see
quotes from Osho all the time, and it's that stuff
of like, you know, you know, we are here for
a short amount of time. It's all it's like shit,
I've said. I mean, it's just it's just that stuff

(01:27:11):
of like you know, he's still practiced. No, he's dead,
but he's like because he changed his name, he doesn't
have the mark. Fucking cults, man, cults, dude, my fave.
They're so good. Anyway, that's mine.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
No one died my apology.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
No, they tried. They tried, and they really got it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
They tried hard. Also the locals tried too. There was
lots of like bad bumper stickers that were like gun
sights with you know, it was not a good time
in the early eighties Central.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Oh we're supposed to talk about one thing though.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
It was good. Sweet, Okay, let's tell each other.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
I think yours is that you bought your niece fucking
Doc Martins for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
Don't do mine for me. So we're going into a
fight at this at the positive.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
Okay, Well, then mine is that you buy your fucking
MEAs talk Mart, because that's the coolest thing I've ever
heard of.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
That was a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Yeah, let's not do it anymore. I mean, we have
to think this hard about we just take a second. Yeah, well,
let's give up. I don't know. Life is good.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
There was something while we were talking that I thought of,
and then I'm like, don't sidebar it again. What I
can't remember? I wish I should have written it down.
We should take notes during the week, and we should
take notes while we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
We should treat this like a fucking thing. I don't
know those it's working, it's working.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
Well, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
There's so many things in my life that are good
and I just can't remember one of them. I guess
that I'm moving into a fucking real apartment, like a
grown up personally just got an apartment, and I'm scared,
but it's it's exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Yeah, that's very exciting. You know what.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
The thing this week that I'm that I'm happy about
my dish I'm gonna have a dishwasher. What's yours?

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Fuck? Yeah, it's fucking real detectives. Oh yeah, that's it. Sorry,
know I was happy for you there's a news there's not.
It's not a new show. Actually, it just the first
season is on Netflix, but the second season I think
is on regular TV if you DVR it. And someone
tweeted us and said, thanks so much for the recommendation

(01:29:31):
of Real Detective. I love it and I'm assessed with it.
We never do You're welcome. We didn't give that recommend it.
You're welcome, But it's this, here's why I love it.
It's like I survived, but it's first person from the
guy who solved the crime, and it is they're like
you love them, You're so in love with them. They're

(01:29:53):
so like low key manly but but super haunted. Because
there's these cases that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
You're like, the case is really good.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Oh my god, they're incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
And there are there like real photo like crime scene photos.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
No, there's really good reenactments. Is that a thing?

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Really good reenacting?

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
There? It is because they actually there's actors you recognize
that are in these Reenacts's fun and they do it
in a way where you're just it's kind it's similar
to I don't know any Yeah, I think Crimeter Remember
is the only one that has really good reenactments. It's
similar to that, but it's less artistic and more down
to business of like the guy tells you this is

(01:30:34):
how it was for me, and then you see him
do the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
I'm into actors that I know, and not ones that
I'm like, Oh god, you're struggling and you got paid
one hundred and ten dollars for this reenactment.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Right, No, this is very cool. And also it's because
it's from I just there's something about a homicide detective
that's just like insanely, it's just pure. They're my Brad Pitt.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
I dig it. Well, it's just bold. It's like, what
a hard job, totally, what a horrible job? Totally? Yeah,
pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
Good bless them, good bless Go to my favorite murder
dot com for things and stuff and thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
Thanks everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
We like you guys. We sure do stay sexy and
don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Bye bye bye, Elvis you want cookie?

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Oh did that work?

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
It did?

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
Jesus Bye bye. Okay we're back from Karen's story. Karen,
any updates?

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
I mean, yes, here's what's weird. I remember doing this
story based on Wild Wild Country, the documentary on Netflix.
No I hadn't come out yet. It hadn't come out.
I did it like a year before, that's right, which
is so crazy. I mean, it's because it was a
hometown in that way where the takeover of that town
was in the like nightly news in our town because

(01:32:05):
it was northern California, Oregon, so we were like neighbors.
So I guess that doesn't surprise me. It's just this
weird kind of ten years later where I'm like, oh wait,
my memory has deceived you. It's just weird. It's all
blending together as like it's almost like, was I trying
to think of a story that hadn't had a documentary
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Well, I had never heard of it until you did.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
It, So I mean, it's wild, so crazy, okay, so
let's see. Obviously, then this documentary where we're talking about
it was a Netflix documentary that came out in twenty
eighteen called Wild Wild Country. Definitely watch it if you
haven't seen it. It's got unbelievable footage from that time
and all the kind of the players, and you can
really see what it looks like when basically the East

(01:32:50):
Oregon countryside just gets invaded and taken over by people
who at first are like, we're just hippies and we
want to love each other, and then they arm the
shit AKA forty seven's as far as the I can see.
So since the release of that documentary, survivors of childhood
rape at the hands of the cult members have begun
to come forward, writing articles posting on social media that

(01:33:13):
the series notably left out their experience. So it was
a big part of the victimology I guess of what
happened at this cult, and it didn't get touched on,
probably because it's like, how do you share the if
you're there to tell the story of the main lady
that poisoned that salad bar, It's like, there's so many

(01:33:35):
things story. Yeah, that should be the whole documentary, but
we've seen many many documentaries that include all the bad
stuff and it's dark as it gets where it's like,
why would you be leaving this part out? That's interesting.
So a group of these survivors work together to create
the documentary Children of the Cult, which was just released
last year, and they basically were making it to fill

(01:33:56):
the gaps left by the Wild Wild Country documentary. So
those are you can go see. They call him oh,
show in that, but it is Baguan Tree REGINI O.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
I would like to announce that since this episode, or
since I moved, I haven't lived without a dishwasher since
unless it broke, which they do all the time, but yeah,
they do. Having a dishwasher to me, like we had
one as a kid that literally didn't work a day
in my life, so it was like storage. Oh so
having a dishwasher to me is like luxury.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
It's pretty I would love to cue the Moving on
Up theme song to the Jeffersons right now, because that
is really what that time felt like. Yeah, it was
like you moved on up into that split level pod
loft apartment. Yeah, and I got myself out of foreclosure, right,
and we really we really were like, yeah, we're going
to do this thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
It was like it was tentative where it's like, Okay,
something good is happening. It's continuing to happen, so maybe
we can take these little stuffs, like I can move
out of we can move out of our rent control department.
It's gonna be okay, right, you know what I mean.
When I thought I'd like live there forever, it was
just those little baby steps.

Speaker 2 (01:35:06):
That we're happening. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
Yeah, dishwashers so crazy for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
So this episode was originally called the Golden Anniversary episode
as our fiftieth, but we can name it something different.
I am naming it today.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
And we have to call it Sheriff Kilgaraff. That is
the funniest fucking thing ever.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
Oh my god. Yeah, Sheriff Kara is so funny. But
I didn't realize this was the episode where you coined
your phrase. Howmever, which is one? Did you say it before?
Who knows? I think it's the first time. Maybe I
heard about it in.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
Meincraf and then also we could call it come on
over to the corner, the corner, the corrections, the corrections corner,
the place. It's cozy, there's no judgment.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
I love that we pretend it's a corner and not
the whole goddamn house.

Speaker 1 (01:35:55):
Not an auditorium, it's the it's every seat in the
gigantic theater.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
That is my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
That's right, And they're all like in there're no aisle seats,
so your knees always hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
Okay, you know you know no, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
Thanks for listening to another episode of rewind episode fifty
of rewind Wow, fifty of these fifty we'll keep doing them,
I guess right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Right, might as well. We're into it now, we're in.
We're doing it. We're doing it. We're no, there's no
going back on. All right, Well, thanks you guys for listening,
Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you
want a cookie

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 50: The Golden Anniversary Episode

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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