Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 51: A Bit of Oblivion - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is a show where we recap our old episodes
and we bring you all new case updates and insights
and all the news that's fit to print.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
And this is actually the last episode that we recorded
in my old apartment, the og my favorite murder studios.
It's kind of bittersweet.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I mean, it was a really it was an era.
We talk about it in this episode of how It's
the End of an Era definitely.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
So this episode came out on January twelfth, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Let's listen to the intro of episode fifty one, A
bit of Oblivion.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
It sounds like I'm scary less the rhines down in Africa.
What's that on?

Speaker 2 (01:04):
It does? Wait, dude, it's good. We've has like seven
seventh and you just beat boxing over it.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Hold on, yeah, demn.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
How many minutes long is that? It just it just
fades out, So put that up on something. My face
is burning.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I just I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
I'm miss making music. So it's just like, oh my gosh,
and I'm moving and I.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
He did he like heard a thing that we wanted
and he's like not us. But like in life, this.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Is why you're going to fucking rule the world.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Karen, did you guys talk about this? I have no
idea what's going but I wish you could see that
from my from my point of view, how insane that was.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Steven is great.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Stephen, you've done it. You did it, Stephen, you've really
done it.

Speaker 5 (02:26):
Now.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
In the breakdown part where you're really kind of getting
into it and you're really singing, it was going through
your head in that part when you're recording it.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
I just the Somble partner. I was like, well, have
I got to make this an actual covers Yeah? I
just kind of vamped on that. I didn't think of
inventing lyrics or anything.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
No, but I'm saying like you did, but you really
went for an unextended part where you kind of got emotional.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
At the end. Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I don't know, it just kind of you just let
it out. You just let it your feelings. Well, thank
you so much.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (02:58):
Thanks Episode fifty one, Play it again, Episode fifty one,
and when they played over and over and over again.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I just want to like, verse after verse after verse
or he's just like I starded woking't fill them.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
And then there's the there's the like, yeah, there's like
the breakdown where it's like Elvis is me out and
it's like breaking it down. That's good. You're so red
right now, Stephen. You're the color of your red beanie.
I love it. It's cute and I love it. Stephen.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Hey, this is my favorite murder. Welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
What's up?

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Hi?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Hi, that's Karen, that's Georgia. This is my favorite murder.
Do you like murder? You come to the right place.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Do you not like murder? Go away?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Give it a try? Oh, go give it a try.
I mean, who knows? Yeah, don't everybody thinks they don't
like murder? Oh my god, till you're a real good
story about it.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, everyone thinks, say I hate that one. They're like,
you're creepy like murder, and like, well, I have this
really interesting story. You're like you've Everyone fucking loves murder.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
People love a good story. Come on, man, don't don't
judge us. This is just like Steven's theme song. Don't
judge it until you get all the way through to
the emotional twice. Yeah, you should listen to it. Twice,
for sure. Listen to this podcast twice, please, and then
stare at us while our face gets red.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I was listening to the last episode. I don't listen
to a lot of episodes anymore because like it's just
like hard, but let's listen to the last one, just
for quality control. And I was cleaning the house and
I just started I had my earphones in it, and
Vince was like doing another thing, and I just started
cracking up so loudly at some point something that we
talked about, and it's like, partly it's funny, but it's

(04:51):
also like I'm laughing at how like how fun our
friendship is, and like these things like it's funny to
me because I know what's going on. And it was
like you and I had to take out my headphones
and me and like I'm laughing at my own podcast. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Have you ever had the thing where your podcast starts?
Like I never close windows on my phone correctly, So
if I'm listening to our podcast in the car and
then I'll walk in somewhere and then like in the
grocery store, our podcast will start. So it's like me
and my own podcast standing there trying to press like
the harder you touch it, the more it won't go off. Yeah,

(05:26):
that's happened a couple of times. Fun. Yeah, we've all
been pretty embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
We're all stupid idiots, and it's fine. Look how far
we've come. Way to go, way to go, everybody, everybody, Well,
we did it together. So this is episode fifty one,
and my bags are packed and I'm ready to go.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
And this is the last episode. I mean, it doesn't
matter to anyone, like we're just voicing.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
It matters to us that does.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
This is the last episode in the place where we
have recorded. I was gonna say filmed recorded fifty one episodes. Yeah,
and it's going to where where we do it in
your apartment. In your new apartment is going to have
a completely different feel, weird and vibe as opposed to
this beautiful sea foam green kind of like retro. Yeah,

(06:15):
situation that we've been.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
In, cozy and homie. There's no like hard angles. Nope,
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
But it's like my apartment that I've been I can't
like normally, like we'll do overcurt stuff and you like
my apartment of yours. Let's go to mind minds like
you'll do it back and forth, they ogle places. But
this is every single fucking except for live once.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I've been in this apartment. It's always been here. Thank
you for that, Thank you for opening your home like
leaving my house. Yeah, it works out good in that way.
I get to wear And also if we did it
at my house, it would just be forty five second,
every forty five seconds barking.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Well, that would then people would make memes of your
dog's Frank and George barking instead of Elvis scream in.
It's fucking hout.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't be as good. No, Yeah,
well it's an end of an era. It's also twenty seventeen,
so good. Like new things, it's all about new energies,
liminal space, what we've talked about already. Yeah, what can
come out of being in a totally new spot. Yeah,
vibes are involved, probably, I bet vibes are totally involved,
My good ones.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
I hope.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
And if not, then we'll move.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Then you have to get a new apartment or move
back into this apartment.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
My god, I'm sad. I'm going to miss this place.
Vin's proposed to me right there.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Shit, yeah, take a picture before you go.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
It wasn't a great proposal though, so it's okay, should.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Be snip that part.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
No, he fucking knows, no, I mean yeah, no, no, no,
he had fucking he had stomach flu.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
It wasn't a great all right. So you weren't in
the hot air balloon like you wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Well, it was basically a hot air balloon, but it
was oh my god, okay, hey, what's what's uh? What's
crapping in what corner? Did you watch Menenda's brothers? Yep,
it's fucked up. It was good, was it?

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
It was just like a like an hour long thing
about the trial and the murder and stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Some people were saying it was amazing. Would you use
the word amazing now?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
It was like an extended twenty twenty episode.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
What new information was revealed that I wouldn't have known
in nineteen what was it ninety six?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Well? None? Oh, but you'd look at it from a
new angle. And my my angle that I looked at
it how which I thought it was interesting, is like
they the Menanda's brothers argued that the dad was molesting them, right,
but then went in like this crazy other direction of
how the mom was molesting them too, and he molested

(08:49):
It got crazy, but you could you could kind of
tell the little part that was actually true in my mind, yeah,
and the stuff that they just exaggerated from them trying
to play on that. And if they had just gone
with the part that was true, which I think maybe
the dad was molesting them, but they were also sociopaths,
then maybe they wouldn't have gotten such extreme sentences.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
They that was your theory, or they talk about it,
that's my theory. Oh oh oh, did they talk about
those wigs at all? Yeah? I didn't know for real.
He had a too pey Yeah, I didn't know that.
And he was so young.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
One of the brothers who they both just look like
they both looked like Mad Magazine characters.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
But it was Lyle had the two pay right, Yeah,
the older brother.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
The older brother had to pay older brother said that
he molested the younger brother. Oh no, in court and apologized.
And when you see their faces when they're when supposedly
they're telling the truth, it's so different when they're than
when they're lying. Really, that's what I like I would
say watch it just for the testimony alone. Okay, it's
so interesting to see they seem like such creepy, fucking

(09:56):
narcissistic sociopaths, which I know everyone hates that we when
we use those terms because but they seem creepy and
lying and it's full of shit. In hell, there's this
one part that could be true. Oh okay, and then
it's like.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Like it just resonates where you're looking at it. You're going,
I don't think this person is doing the thing he
was just doing with that other ocean.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
They they're broken all of a sudden, and then they're
back to normal, and it's like they're just like lying.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I mean, look, I get it would make sense because
it's one thing, like killing your parents, uh so that
you can have money is one thing, but like machine
gunning down your parents or whatever, didn't they have some
crazy gun?

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
And the other thing about that too is that like
if they had just done it to their father, they
might have gotten a pretty lenient sentence if they had said,
like he was molesting us for years when we were traumatized, right,
But they like kind of chased down the mom. Yeah,
And everyone was like that part to them was like,
how could you kill your mother? And so they made
up this. I think they made up the story about

(10:58):
the mom molesting them too, but when really I think
they were just pissed off that she never cared or
did anything about it, right, It's just really, it's just
it's I mean, this is all made up shit, obviously,
but yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Your theory, it's all my theory, right, but it's based
on you've listened to one million podcasts about it and
watched a million crime shows about it. And uh there
was also the thing of how that father Jose was
just a big fucking bully and so it was like
she was bullied herself.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
But yeah, yeah, it's ugly.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
The whole thing is there's definitely no clear lines except
for the fact that yeah, you just you can't. Here's
the thing. You murder them, but then you just go
on a fucking spending spree. I mean they just didn't
do anything right, No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
I guess I.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Don't like that one because it's just greed. I hate
the creed based one.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
There's a lot that I don't of those that I
don't like until I watched something a little more interesting
about them and then like them, And this is one
of them where like I didn't give a shit, We
just happened to catch it and then I liked it.
She a must have been produced kind of well, yeah, no,
it's done really well. It was just like, wasn't you
know one of the like Jeanbinet ones and we are back,

(12:14):
We're back And the song was Africa by Toto. That's right,
one of the greats. How did we not know that?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I mean a legendary song. Also, it's just so funny.
Stephen was such a gigantic part of the show and
it's so funny looking back on these episodes where it's
like Stephen wrote a song for us, or it's just
like the third host.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Totally like we were a little family. Yeah, I love
you Stephen, We love you Stephen. Also, I want to
clarify something I say in the episode because we're moving
out of the apartment, that Vince's proposal was quote bad.
I don't mean bad. I mean like, I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
This is what happens when you record personal conversations and
distribute them to the public.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Essentially, he was supposed to propose to His plan was
to propose to me in downtown Las Vegas, where we
love to hang out, and he got.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I'm sorry, are you saying your plan was that he
was supposed to propose to you in downtown Most Vigas.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, he literally made this plan. We were going to
Vegas that evening. He's got the stomach flu. I had
to take him to urgent care. On the way back,
he was like the sweating and kind of flew. Maybe
he was just nervous. But we walk into our apartment
and he comes out of the kitchen and I guess
in his mind he was like, fuck it, I'm just

(13:31):
gonna do it anyways, and proposed then. I was not
expecting it at all, But I also had been proposed
to in the past and it was really romantic and sweet,
and it was a terrible relationship. So I kind of
was like, maybe this is good luck. Yeah, you know,
and for sure it has been so clearly yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Well, but those kinds of things I think are such
a there's supposed to be this definitive moment, and then
it's like, oh, here's the background. It's supposed to have
this playing and this doing blah blah blah. And also
I wonder if he had the stomach flu. Did they
give him a shot or could he have been a
little high on some sort of a medication.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I don't think so. I don't know, but he was
only sweating. And we're twelve years into our relationship, nine
years into our marriage and things are great.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
So also one of the best weddings I've ever been
to to this date.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, we made up for it with the wedding for.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Sure, also being very timely in this episode. Or it
would have been interesting to know back then how this
topic of the Menandez brothers would just continue on into
the future for the next decade for us.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and like change our minds in a lot of
ways too. The Monsters, the Lyle and Eric Menenda story
which was the limited series, and then the Menendez brother
documentary I think did change my opinion a lot in
this case for a lot of people. And I think
you can see that by the fact that they're having
a parole hearing at this point to see if they're

(14:57):
eligible for parole, which you know wasn't at all possible
back then.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think it's interesting, I mean, the idea that we
really were because of the they call it the mono culture, whatever,
we were just fed this kind of very singular story
about these two rich brats and they really what they did,
and then how they acted afterwards very unsympathetic. But then
because it was basically on TV, yeah, everyone watched it

(15:24):
as if it was TV and then form these opinions
or were told their opinion. Right, it's weird to look
back on that to be able to.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I'm glad we have a little more nuance now a
days to this sort of thing, or at least.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
That there's just more people in the conversation than whoever's
cutting tape at the local news station.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Totally, and the conversation isn't like it's not the mom
knew or the mom didn't know, the boys did it
or they didn't do it. It's like you can be
multiple things. You don't have to being a perfect victim
isn't actually a thing, no, And I'm glad we are
acknowledging that these days.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
And also I think our opinions from the beginning of
this podcast, it was like absolutely very black and white
for me just going in and being like, no, people,
should you know, go to jail forever or whatever, the
kind of things that we would talk about. So casually
thinking there was fifty people listening, and then really getting
educated over the years of like the truth of it

(16:21):
and the reality and the day to day of all
of that stuff. I mean, watching that Chloe seventy her
performance in that fucking show Monsters is so amazing, and
then the idea that that could be the truth about that.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Mom right right, horrifying. Yeah, that show was incredible. All right, well,
should we get into your story. Let's do it. Okay,
let's listen to Karen's story about Jennifer Holiday.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
This week, I wanted to get back to the thing
I like to do the best, which is retail and
I Survive, which is a first person show that does
not use re enactment.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
But also this is one of the ones as I
was writing this up, I realized, when we've talked in
the past about how I cannot listen to nine one
one calls, this is the one time that I've listened
to a nimal one call that it insanely enhanced the story.
So it wasn't just like some lunatic person screaming in

(17:29):
panic and like a horror thing that immediately makes you go,
oh my god, everyone's in danger. It's like the perfect
most of the fact that they even have it to
run during this story is incredible. So anyway, I'll just
tell you what it was. This is the This is
the attempted murder of Jennifer Holiday and the murder of
Anna Franklin, and it happened in This is from season two,

(17:51):
episode six of Ice Arry. So anyway, if you haven't
heard this, I love the show I Survived. It's now
in reruns. I think it's on their rerunning it a Lifetime,
but you can also get it on something else whatever.
I think they're also on YouTube, but I like to
every once in a while remember ones that just stuck
with me and talk about them because I do love

(18:12):
a survivor and I love the first person. I do
love a first person tale of insane horror and then.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Makes me like calm down a little bit because you know, like,
whatever bad happens, like you can still get back to
the person and they're not dead.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
They're not fucking dead.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, so it's like okay to be into it.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes exactly, You're you're not going straight down like we
do at the end of an episode. Sometimes we're just like.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Oh great, they got murder.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yes, exactly. This is a no matter what's happening, you're
going you're still looking at the person. It's like triumphant,
you know, absolutely, And a lot of the time because
it's I would say eighty percent women telling these stories,
and they're telling you stories where you're like, holy fucking shit,
and they're telling you, you know, just fine, telling you

(18:57):
the story of this thing that happened, that they survived,
that they've gotten through, and they're there to tell you
that's right. Yeah, Like you're like, I would never get
out of a fetal position if this happened to me,
and they're like, yes, she would, Yes, you absolutely would
fucking deal with it and that because that's life, and
life goes on and everybody does like, not everybody does this,
but the people who experience extreme trauma continue to live

(19:17):
and sometimes even flourish afterwards. So I like this one
too because it's fucking exactly like a seventies horror movie.
It is I when you see it and you hear it,
and I recommend that you watch it. Okay, camp, it's
no a camp, no, but kind of close. It's like
that feel. So basically it's this it's a May twenty fifth,

(19:41):
two thousand and five, and Jennifer Sorry, May twenty ninth,
two thousand and five. Jennifer Holiday is driving down Highway
sixty nine and a near it's just north of Lufkin, Texas,
with her seventeen year old cousin, Anna Franklin. They're in
an suv going seventy miles an hour, and all of
a sudden, there's the fucking loudest bang in the world.

(20:03):
She doesn't even know what happened. They pull there's glass
and blood everywhere, all of a sudden, and they pull
over and her cousin starts screaming and she looks down
and her left arm has been shot. She's been shot
through the window of her car and her left arm
is almost severed, like right above the elbow.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Holy fuck.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
So her husband, her cousin's losing her shit, of course,
and she's and she is an EMT. She goes super
calm and is like pull out your phone, call nine
one on right now, you know. Basically is like, calm down,
stop screaming whatever.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
What they don't realize is there was a man who
was driving next to them and he was the one
who shot at them, and he pulls over and he
walks up to the open driver's side window, reaches in
past Jennifer grabs the phone out of Anna's hand and

(21:02):
just tosses it away, and he's laughing, and she says,
right then, she was like, I got real scared, and
uh so he basically uh he backs up. He's got
a shotgun in his hands, and they're and they're both

(21:23):
just kind of staring at him. He like takes a
couple steps backwards, picks up the shotgun and just shoots
into the car. And Jennifer said, in this show, she
sees it's like a tracer where she sees the bullet
go by her face, Like it just goes right by
the front of her face and shoots Anna in the

(21:44):
head and kills her.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Fuck. Wait, this is the older chick or the younger one.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
The younger chick gets shot in the head and killed.
Fuck it's her cousin.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
So oh my god.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
So then he pulls Jennifer out of the car, and
she's like what the fuck is going on? Almost blown off,
her arm is like hanging off, and he puts her
into his car and they start driving up the highway.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
This is a fucking Mary Vincentale all over it.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's fucking it's insane, but it's it's also this kind
of thing where it's like you can see it if
like shot, you can see it shot all grainy in
like eight millimeter where you're like, what the fuck. And
it's like when she tells the story, it's like the
guy's laughing. It's stuff where you're like, who fuck?

Speaker 1 (22:27):
What status this? Or what county?

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Texas? It's north of Lufkin, Texas. Okay, I don't know
what the count not the shit man, we're in what
part of Texas is? Apparently it's a big place. So
they're just driving like ninety miles an hour out of town.
They drive and drive. So now she says, there's no
one around, there's no lights, there's no houses, there's no

(22:50):
one anywhere. Oh my god. And at one point he
pulls her out of the car. He pulls over, pulls
her out of the car, pulls her into the woods
and rapes her. Then and then when he's finally done
and he's like ripped all her clothes off and everything,
he does the thing where he's like, all of a sudden,
then he starts crying.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Then he looks at her and goes, oh my god,
you're bleeding.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
What happened? What?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
And then he starts laughing and she realizes, Okay, this
person is either on drug, like something is seriously fucking
wrong with this guy, and I need to get myself
out of here. So she fucking comes up with this plan.
And this is the part where we're like, this is
why you fucking hang in through the commercial and you're like,
what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, this is so interesting too, because like it's not
like she's just like, I don't know what this guy's
capable of. She just she knows her cousin is dead
back in the fucking car. She knows what this dude
is capable of. There's no like, she knows, there's no fucking.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
She knows we're we're in complete emergency mode and something
must be done. And she sees his weakness. That's the thing,
is the person acting like that. She realizes there could
be some play here. She could do something about the
situation that she's in. So what she starts doing, and
it's so fucking brilliant is she starts the way she
says it because she has her text and accent. She's like,

(24:09):
I start rubbing up on him and acting like I
really like him and saying basically saying thank you for
saving me, and and you're so nice and like being
flirty and sweety, and he immediately reacts and is like
into it. So she's basically convinces him he didn't attack her.
She's treating him like the hero and saying, I can't

(24:30):
believe you saved me from that man. Thank you so much,
thank you so much, You're my hero. And oh my god,
I just want to can we go back to your house?

Speaker 1 (24:38):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Because she's thinking in her head, they're in the front
right now, They're in the middle of fucking nowhere. There's
not a person to be found. There's not a light,
so at least if he drives her to his house
there will be a phone, or there will be at
least one other.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Person or a knife. She can fucking stabishr some.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Fuck something, which is brilliant. She's just like, get me
out of this spot now. So clearly you're on drugs.
There's something's going on with you where you can be manipulated.
How she fucking goes for it and it works. He
gets her back into the car and he's like I
can drive you to my house. But here's the thing.
Don't do don't be bad and don't do what the
bad people do, because you'll pay in this hint. And

(25:15):
she's like, I won't. I promise, Why would I? And
she's and she'd be like, I'm so grateful to you.
You've helped me so much. And then he's like believing
what she's saying. My god, and then he would like
look at her and be like, oh my god, you're
covered in blood. She'd be like, I know I need
help really badly, and so she's basically doing this. They
get to his house, he turns down the road into

(25:40):
a cemetery. Oh fuck, I mean, if you fucking wrote this,
it'd be like change the cemetery part.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
That's crazy. Just go to a house.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
They're driving into an old cemetery, and she's like, she's
sit naked, covered in blood, and like, what the where
are we going?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
My god?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
They go down on a hill a little bit and
there's like two trailers on either side, and one of
them is his. So they go down into this kind
of thing past the cemetery, and this is where he lives.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So that's where I'm moving out. I didn't tell you
that this mining.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh that's your new spot. Good good because just for
like just to be around shits and gigs man, right right,
good plan. So he takes her into the house and
he actually lets her use the phone. No, yeah, he's like,
she's convinced him that it has worked and he now
believes that he helped her.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
So here's the fucking nine one one call part. You
have it? Yes, it is. You have to watch this
episode because can you play it for her?

Speaker 1 (26:42):
She no, dude.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
She is so calm, and she's like, Hi, yeah, I
got shot and this man helped me so much. He
is sitting right here in front of me and he
helped me so much. And I just I really need
help and I need someone to come and help me
because but this man helped me and saved me. And
the woman's like, ma'am, did you say you were shot?

(27:05):
And she's like yeah, yeah, yeah, and I need help.
And so she's doing this thing where the words she's
saying don't match her tone of voice, and the woman
on the other line it only takes her like three
exchanges and she's like what the fuck. So the woman goes,
are you saying you were shot. She's like, yeah, and
I need help and this man helped me so much,
this man right here in front of me. And then

(27:26):
she goes, Mama, are you not from around here? And
she goes, no, uh uh uh uh here and he's here,
so I'm safe with him. I'm here with him, and
I need you to send me an ambulance because I'm
bleeding really bad. And then she hears the nine one
one operator someone else says something where it's like that shooting.
And then she gets back on the phone she said,

(27:48):
and she the nine one one operator. I can't remember
how it goes exactly, but it's basically like she goes,
the woman says something shows did you say there's like
something about a shooting, and she goes, she uh huh huh.
He's here right now and he's helping me so much.
It's it's that one. It's same one. Uh huh. And
she basically is like hearing you say it by the

(28:08):
one telling her in this like super pleasant voice, giving
her these signals without letting onto the crazy man literally
sitting in front of her, that the shooter is sitting
fucking in front of her.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Isn't it crazy that if he were a little less crazy,
this wouldn't have.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Worked, right, you know what I mean? Yes, like if
whatever Angel dust or fucking thing he was on, but
he actually the way she played it, and when you
hear her this nine one one call, you understand how
it worked because she's not I'm actually doing too much energy.
She's like almost kind of like chill like this where
it's like, yeah, I just need and uh huh yep,

(28:48):
that's it, yeah, and doing that fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
So, oh my god, my god.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
So she says, just a an ambulance or whatever, so
she can't they can't figure out where she is because
there it's not like a trace whatever. He ends up
getting on No, and they have that that portion of
the nine one one call where he's giving the nine
one operator directions to his house.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
How the fuck does he not know? Like how does
that happen?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Because he was out of his fucking mind on drugs.
He was on and drunk. But I think it's the
drugs and maybe something else. He has a crazy rap sheet.
He had Benangel a ton of times, lots of fucking
domestic violence, he had gotten into his girlfriend had left
him that night.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Oh my God, and.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
He got drunk at a bar and he said he
did like Xanax or pack Flour's like one single thing
where I'm like, dude, you were on fucking angel dusts like.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Tuesday for me. Man, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
So so anyway, the part of the recording, he's talking
to the operator saying how they should get to his
house and then going yeah, and she he's bleeding real bad.
I mean I got blood all over me too, and
I saved her and I don't know, like you need
to get someone here really fast, like he's completely been
convinced Jesus. And she goes, well, is she doing okay?

(30:11):
And she's the not on operator is like sweet as pie.
You would never know that she's talking to anybody except
for the nice man that saved this woman. So he says,
only you can only have an ambulance, no cops, and
she's like, no, of course not. I only want an ambulance.
I just need to get this blood off, man, get
this thing taken care of. He's like okay, So then
he gives her shorts and a shirt to put on

(30:32):
so she doesn't have to walk outside naked.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Can you imagine being naked like naked too. It's like
so vulnerable, naked, uncovered in blood.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Dude, it is total horror movie.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeh.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
She goes outside and she says she's lost so much
blood at this point, and she's the empty so she knows,
like she knows, and she says she's walking out. She
sees the ambulance. So she's walking up this hill trying
to get to the ambulance and she's like, she goes
and I know I've lost so much blood because I
can see the trees moving. What it was was the

(31:03):
fucking swat team in place. And she gets like out
of range and he is walking outside behind her. Oh
my god, because he's like gonna see her to the
fucking mabulance. And then the second, like the second he
gets far enough outside, the swat team just fucking goes down.
He fights them. They take him down and they arrest him.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
They don't kill him.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
That's amazing. No, they take him down. You're you're not
supposed to just go right, but like you know, you'd
think he'd fight back, and no, he fought him, but
they's arrested him, being good for them, they arrested him. Uh,
and he gets oh, it's two life sentences for capital murder,

(31:46):
aggravated salt and kidnapping. And when that show aired in
two thousand and seven, she still had over thirty shotgun
pellets lodged in her armneck and chet.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Two years later that she did the show. Then, yes,
that's fucking insane.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, and she still had like chotcum pellets inside her
from the shotgun blast that she survived. Fucking crazy. She
had a son that she since then No, no, no,
at the time, she was a single mother, and she
said that she was thinking like what she was positive
she was going to die in the cemetery house that

(32:24):
she ended up at. And so the fact that when
she got on that nine on one call, she got
to talk to this woman who got her ship, who
got who like picked up on the game and fucking
did it. And because it's like basically the cops had
come up upon Anna's dead body in that car, they
knew a situation had happened, and basically everybody hooked it
all together. It's like best case scenario for looking for

(32:47):
this person. This girl is calling, this.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Is what this is.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
And then basically at the very end, Jennifer just says,
I should have died that night, Like it's a miracle
of God that I lived. And I just want to
say this, it's not a God, bless God. It's not
a miracle of God, because she was instinctually smart. She
fucking came up with a plan and she was brave

(33:12):
enough to enact it and go for it and make
it happen for herself. She did it like she did it. Yeah,
and yes it worked out good best case scenario. But
it's like that's that's a survivor's instinct that she had,
and she did it for herself.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
I mean, yeah, yeah, that's insane. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I wonder where she is now, Like if she gonna,
what's she doing now?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Where's her kid? It's got to be proud of her,
right yoo?

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Fuck dude, pretty good. It's a good one. What's her
name again?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Her name is Jennifer Holiday. Okay, and her cousin who
died who was She was like in her late twenties,
but her cousin who died was seventeen when it happened.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Anna Franklin, Oh honey, I'm sorry, alright, pe Okay, we're back, Karen,
any updates? How are you feeling about that?

Speaker 2 (34:06):
I mean, this story. I remember watching it real time,
and it was so unbelievably horror movie creepy. What this
woman went through and lived through and of course obviously survived,
is unbelievable. So there are no updates for Jennifer Holiday's story.
She's kept a low public profile and I didn't cover

(34:27):
this in the original story, But after the attack, she
struggled with very serious health issues and regaining motor skills
in her left arm. I mean, it was essentially blown
off by a shotgun. She gave a two thousand and
seven interview with the Lufkin Daily News where she said, quote,
I still can't feel the back of my hand at all.
I can't put my hand to my face. I have

(34:48):
no fine motor skills. And basically, once the CEO of
Memorial Herman Hospital heard about Jennifer's story, and this is
kind of insane, they covered all of her medical bills
for a very important surgery she couldn't afford, and that
restored movement to her elbow. So before that she couldn't

(35:10):
do basic stuff like tying her shoes, and then after
that she could. So I mean, that's kind of a
really lovely silver lining in what is truly like watching.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
A horror film. Totally.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I still can't get over. And I talk about in
the episode when he takes her to his house and
they drive through a cemetery to get to his house
behind the cemetery, where it's just like, you couldn't script
this any worse. This is another thing she said to
the Houston Chronicle. Jennifer Holiday said, quote, my sole goal
in life is to get back somewhat as I was before.

(35:42):
I know mentally and physically, I'll never be able to
go back to the job I used to have. I'll
be able to do something, I'm sure. So, you know,
being the victim of an attack like that traumatic and
horrible enough as it is, but then all of the
physical repercussions afterwards just like horrible. Definitely so glad to
talk about her as a survivor because she really beat

(36:04):
the odds on that one.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah. And then we have another horrible story that I
cover that does have a silver lining, even though it's
just a tragic story. But we love the stories where
laws are changed and where people survivors fight back.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, so let's get into it. This is George's story
about Megan's Law.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
All right, are you ready for mine? I Am Mine's
a bummer. Get ready to be bummed. It's not a
survivor's story, but there is a positive ending to it.
Something good happens out of it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
So.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Jesse Timndecos He is born April fifteenth in nineteen sixty
one in Piscataway and New Jersey. He claims that his
mother was promiscuous, a permiscy alcoholic, had ten children by
seven different men, and that his dad was a violent drinker,

(37:06):
and that his dad had sexually abused him and his
brother all the time, and that they once saw their
dad rape a seven year old girl. What the fuck,
that's what they says, they said, And that the father
tortured and killed pets, and that he once forced this
guy Jesse and his brothers to eat their pet rabbit.
What yeah. So in nineteen seventy nine, when this guy,

(37:31):
Jesse Tamndekos is eighteen, he persuades two five year old
girls to go off with him in search of ducks,
is what he tells them. He took them by the
hand and leads them towards an embankment. One of the
girls fucking has some horrible feeling and takes off leaves
them with the other girl, a little five year old girl. Ash,

(37:53):
She's like, fuck this, I'm gonna get help Jesus. But
the other girl they get to the bottom of the
hill by the brook, he knocks down, he pulls her
pants down, and right at that moment, the girl who
ran away had got a neighbor and they run up
and fucking find him. So Jesse pleads guilty to the
attempted aggravated sexual assault, and exchange for pleading guilty, he

(38:15):
gets a suspended sentence as long as he agrees to
get with counseling or to get counseling. He doesn't get it,
and he sent for as a punishment, is sent for
nine months to the Middlesex Adult Correctional Center nine months
because he said no to fucking counseling.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
So in nineteen eighty one he's out and he lures
a seven year old girl into the woods. Don't go
in the fucking woods with the promise of firecrackers, ma'am.
And again this girl's with a friend, and this friend
is like fuck this and takes off on her bike.

(38:59):
But while that's happening, Jesse takes the girl unto the woods,
strangles her until he thinks she's dead, and while he's
running out of the woods, the girl who survived had
gotten cops and they catch him. He pleads guilty to
assault and is imprisoned in the Adult Diagnostic and Treatment

(39:20):
Center in Avenel, New Jersey, for ten years, but he
only gets six years. He's let out after that, and
a therapist says that he thinks that he would eventually,
So the therapist says that she thinks that he'll eventually
commit another sex crime, but she doesn't think he'll commit murder,
so let him fucking go after six years. So when

(39:44):
he leaves this facility, he moves in too. He moves
into a town where's the town name? Okay, he moves
into Hamilton Township, New Jersey, into a house with two
other sex offenders that he had met the facility.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
What yep, their plan or like halfway house style?

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Their plan? Dude, there's no halfway house style in the
it's the they're out and free. Yes, the early nineties. Oh,
there's no halfway house style. So it's the early nineties.
I was thinking of those like seventies. I had that
kind of like he went in nineteen eighty one, he
goes in for six or seven years, so he moves out,

(40:27):
and so he's living at this time in Hamilton Township,
New Jersey. One of the sex savendors he lived with
named Brian Jennen. He had he had joined the Big
Brothers so he could have access to young boys. So
he gets out. The other one is Joseph Cephelli. He
had been charged with carnal abuse. He sodomy of a

(40:47):
five year old girl, and he pled guilty to three
counts of impairing the morals of a minor. What kind
of fucking important impairing the morals? No, you're fucking rapist.
You're a rapist. It's not you're not fucking with the morals, man,
you're like, Okay, So across the street from their house

(41:10):
and one house down and this street, I saw it
on a video. It's a tiny street. It's like it's
a small neighborhood. And this is like, this is a
small town. You know, families, it's not a dangerous town.
Right across the street lives the Kenka family, and part

(41:30):
of that family was seven year old Megan So On
July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety four, Megan walks by his
house on the way to a friend's house, and Jesse
tells her, as he had done in other fucking times,
that he has an animal to show her. He says
that he has a puppy inside his house wants to
show her, and she goes with him into his room.

(41:55):
He rapes her and sodomizes her and slams her head
into the dresser. He puts plastic bags of her head
so she won't bleed in his room and strangles her
with a belt, and then he puts her body into
a toy chest and dumps her in the nearby Mercer

(42:16):
County Park. It's fucking horrifying. So that night Megan's Stanley's
freaking out. There's a search for her. Jesse participates in it,
handing out flyers. They go to the police go to
order door. He tells them he had seen Megan riding
her bicycle around two thirty in the afternoon, But he

(42:38):
also tells Maureen, Meghan's mom, some other weird shit about
seeing her before dinner. His story is weird. He's like
nervous and sweating when he's telling these stories.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Wait, so sorry. He went to the mom and was like.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Oh, the mom was like have you seen them? And
he was, you know, he was like.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
He wasn't keeping his own story straight.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
And he wasn't offering too much information and okay, And
so the next day, I guess one of the roommates
has like had like had convinced him to confess, was like,
you need to fucking confess.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Fucking in the bowels of hell. They decide they're going
to get fucking.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
This guy's like, I'm fucking clean, man, Maybe the fuck
out of here. The next day he goes in and
confesses to investigators, and he leads the police to Megan's body.
He confesses to some of it, but not all of
the aspects of the sexual assault. And so once the
autopsy happened, the police are like, yeah, but here's more information,
and he's like, okay, yeah, I did that too. Like

(43:32):
he's a fucking creepy and he knows like he's not
he's not crazy and he's not mentally impaired because he
knows to keep this certain information from the cops. He
knows that he should put a bag over her head
so that blood won't get places, because yeah, he's aware
of it. He's act aware even though he had a
really low self. He had a really low IQ, but

(43:53):
he knew the things to hide something he was smart
enough to covers on fucking tracks. Right, So there's so
bloodstained hair fiber samples. And also Megan had fucking fought
back and there was a bite mark on Jesse's hand
because she had fought really hard. And he said that
the reason he killed her was because she fought and

(44:15):
he was scared she was going to tell her mom,
which is better fucking bullshit. So his trials in May
of nineteen ninety seven, he sound guilty of purposeful or
knowing murder, two counts of felony murder, first degree kidnapping,
and four counts of first degree aggravated assaults, and June
he sentenced to death and in his statement says, Okay,

(44:36):
I'm sorry for what I've done to Megan. I pray
for her and her family every day. I have to
live with this and what I've done for the rest
of my life.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, it's very sad for you, Steven.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
I asked you to let me live so I someday
can understand and have an understanding why something like this
could happen. Thanks. Wait, did he say thanks at the end.
He said thanks at the end.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Sorry. Wait, his name is Steve Right, I'm so sorry
you kidding hilarious? No, I just said I just added
Stephen's Wow, that's so fucking funny. So I'm sorry. No,
my full apology.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Now his name is Jesse Toes. I'm so sorry Stephen.
This is not Stephen's episode.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
No, okay, so okay, we know, so we can just
do a narcissism of the checklist of like, all of
a sudden, a young girl's rape and murder that he
committed is sad for him.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
And I hope someday I can understand why this happened,
not why I did this even would be better.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Are we right, because it's it's such a mystery.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, why did this happen?

Speaker 2 (45:49):
The thing I did? Yeah, fully with my eyes open,
knowing full well what was happening in.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
The anti right, And this is when he starts to
say that his dad had sexually abused him and was
you know, which is like horrifying if it's true, But
it doesn't mean so many people like this happens to
people and they don't go on to do these horrible things.
They become better people. Or they don't become better people,
but they don't fucking molest children, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yes, Also, I'm thinking what you're with theam Nanda's ninety
four ninety three something like that. I mean, I'm just
wondering if, like, because did you say this was ninety
two before or after he went to people when he
made that claim? Oh, that was like ninety seven. I mean,
I'm just saying that when those things get into like
the popular culture.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Here's something to say, yeah, like this is working. Yeah
that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, totally that I mean could have happened, not just
saying that suddenly it's like this beat starts, starts to
become a rationale.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, like try this, you should try this defense. Oh Steven,
oh my god. Okay, No, his name is Elvis. Uh
so okay, So here's the positive on this horrifying story.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, this is fucking rotten, I know.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
So Michelle's parents, Richard and Mariene Kenka, go on a
fucking crusade to change the law. They demand mandatory community
notification of sex offenders.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Megan's Law.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Megan's fucking law. Ah, this is Megan's Law, which I
thought we should all know where it came from.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yes, we should.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's important. This is why it's not just some I
didn't tell this horrifying child story child murder story, which
I would do. It's not fucking arguing that I'm better
than that. But this is an important one. And I
was I was studying some other murder today to do,
and that came up, and I was like, Jesus, I
don't know enough about this.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
That's I love that.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
That's how I studied this. And I was like, this
is my murder. This is important. And the next thing
one that I found can come up because it has
to do with Megan's law later, but let's get to this,
you know what I mean. So Richard and Marine badass
motherfuckers go on a crusade to change the law. They
demand mandatory community notification of sex defice sex offenders, which
is the thing of like when a sex offender moves

(48:00):
into your community, they have to notify the whole community
that there's a sex a sex offender living there. They
can't live in their schools or daycares all the shit.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Can't fucking join the big brothers.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
No, you motherfuckers. So they say that the registrations the
registration requires. So there was a Jacob Weddling Act originally,
which is we all know the Jacob Weddling story, which
was horrifying, but that only required sex offenders to register
with local law enforcement, so they didn't have to tell
anyone about it except the law enforcement. And they said

(48:33):
that Megan would still be alive if they had known
the criminal history of the stude. So in nineteen ninety four,
New Jersey in ex law and in ninety six President
Bill Clinton signed a federal Megan's Law, and it's basically
amending the Jacob Wetterling Act. It sets guidelines for the
state statutes requiring states to notify the public, although officials

(48:56):
could decide how much public notification is necessary on the
level of danger posed by the offender, which is kind
of troubling. So there's three tiers and based on those
tiers they have to tell a certain amount of people,
which sucks. And I can tell you what's in each
tier if you want, but I don't know if it's
even fucking worth it, Like.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Do you have to list acts that are super upsetting?

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Pretty much? Yeah, I mean it's it's all troubling, and
it's that you know, there's this whole argument now about
about First Amendment rights and all this shit, and like,
you know, freedom of it's just like it's an ugly
thing where you're just like, don't molest children. You lose
your fucking rights when you are a sex offender. Yeah,

(49:36):
you lose your rights and you can't fucking argue your
freedom of whatever the shit I mean.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
They want them to do speech, right, Is it like
the freedom of privacy?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yes, that's fun. Yeah, which is like, well, you you
don't get to have it.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
You lost that, you don't get to have it. No, Also,
tell your friends in your fucking apartment you're sharing with
all the other sex offenders, let them know if that's
something they're going to continue to do if they get
prosecuted for it. Yeah, they're not going to be able
to have that privacy now to be a child rapist.
And yeah, I'm sorry, it's not like so Tier one

(50:11):
is someone who's convicted and serve less than one year
of imprisonment for something like it's for something light like
receiving or possessing child porn. That's Tier one.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Like that's a light fucking thing for them that you
don't have to tell everyone or sexual assault against an
adult that involved sexual contact but not completed or tempted
sexual assault. So they try to fucking rape an adult
but didn't fucking go through with it. They're not a
sex they are not they're not scary.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
They don't have to come and knock on your door
and say I did this. Nope.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Okay, so you don't know that there's a rapist, attempted rapist.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Attempted rapist because this is the classic difference between attempted
and succeeded. Fuck you well, because all it is is
just going to lead to now they're going to succeed.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
It's that so this time they're going to do it.
They're going to kill them so they can't be identified
and brought to try them, right, Because the second tier
is when people who have had one conviction get another one,
so they're not gonna want that other one. They're gonna
kill their fucking victim instead of letting them live a
bunch of other shits. Tier three is just like, you
don't want to fucking meet one of these motherfuckers ever anyways.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And are those the people knocking on your door?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I don't know if that's actually a thing. Okay, I
don't know if they do that.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
I'm just thinking of that part in the Big about
Zeus Knot gets punched in the face.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
That's amazing. No, I think that the cops or like
the they have to hand out flyers door to door.
But there's this crazy thing too or you're not allowed
to tell anyone about the flyer you got. So we
get fucking we don't have freedom of speech to tell
our friends that there's a fucking child bluster living in
your neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
What, yeah, how is that?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
I don't know? And let me say that this is
from mom.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
You can leave it on the coffee table and point
to it.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Saying and also fu tiptap. Also this is from a
too an episode of sixty sixty and sixty minutes in
two thousand, so I could be could have changed by then.
Oh yeah, I didn't do my research.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
So keep up with every goddamn law they passed im.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Sorry, I'm a busy woman. So yeah, so Megan's law,
sex offenders are required to register with local police when
they're moving into a neighborhood. And it's like so amazing
that they that's a huge change. It's not, it's huge,
but Unfortunately, in two thousand and seven, the death penalty

(52:31):
was abolished in New Jersey. I don't want to I'm
not trying to start a fucking fight about the death penalty.
But so Jesse uh timend Acosts just is now having
life in prison, which is good. I want them to
suffer there too, you know what I mean? I do. Yeah,
so everything is fucked. No, so it's wonderful. No it's not.

(52:52):
It's neither.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Look, it's all horrible. It's all horrible. But yeah, you're right.
At least something good came out of it, where it's like,
at least there's some progress in some way. And I'm
you know, her parents, I'm impressed with them, and it's
amazing that they and you know, there's an interview with
her mom who was just like.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I was obsessed. She made the cops let her go
into that room where her daughter died, and she stopped
thinking about it, and they finally fucking demolished the house
and built a park for Megan, and the mom's like
I can't go to the park, Like she's really broken.
She was like I wanted to die, and but you know,
they did something with it and have probably helped an

(53:33):
innumerable is that a word? Enumerable? Innumerable amount of children?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Prevention?

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Prevention?

Speaker 2 (53:39):
That's they They'll have no idea how many people, they.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Say, we'll never know.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah, so wow, awesome, Megan. I like that one, and
also learning, Yeah, learning about what that even you hear
that phrase and you don't know what it means totally.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I had no idea. Yeah, oh man, how you doing?
I'm pretty good to yourself. What do you what's the
thing you like this week? Huh? Is there anything.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
I'd just like to say? Sorry to Stephen? You like
the fact that you're saying sorry to Stephen. No, it's separate.
It's Stephen's apology corner. I just didn't apology. It's like
it's really been bad this episode between Stephen and I.
Usually it's fake. I like to do some pretend yelling
at the beginning. We have a whole thing. And this

(54:30):
Stephen crying is this reel? This fuck wrong? He looks
real broken. But here's the good part about it. If
you would see him right now, everybody at home, he
has this like an elf hat on, So if he
were crying, it's very it suits him, like it looks
good and.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
He could use it to cover his face.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
It's a it's a beamie, one of those things called
that you have follow that one.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Yeah, yeah, okay, well I'll go because I actually write
it down this time, so I wouldn't be like, I
don't know what I like. I like the show Flee
Back Go on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
What is it? I've never heard of it?

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, A, you would love it because it's fucking British.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Because it's all re enactment, so yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Know, it's like it's like the show Search Party that
we love. Yes, but it's this fucking British chick who's
too pretty for the part she's playing, which is like
a mess. She's a fucking train wreck of a person.
It's six episodes, but it's all like people that you
would know from British procedurals and she's a mess. But

(55:29):
there's this like crazy arc that happens that it's like
kind of a surprise. It's just such a beautiful, messy show.
Oh yes, and I don't fucking cry at shows ever.
I fucking started crying at the end. What and I
buried my face in events. I was so embarrassed, and
I was like he was just kind I got to

(55:50):
see that it's so you'll watch them all on one
in one sitting. I love that it's so good that everyone, oh,
you'll love it on you said Amazon.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
It's on Amazon. It's called fleabag. I can't figure out
how to watch TV on Amazon. And I think I
have all the things to do it. I just when
I go to do it every time, I'm like, I'm
not young. I can't do this.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Have to have twenty one year old Steven come over.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
We hate housers and making mccastroles, all these apologies. Look,
I don't think that you are a child murderer. I
never have. I don't know why it came out. I
guess I felt bad that I wasn't didn't receive I
was confused about your goddamn theme song. I'm sorry, it's funny, Karen.
I like surprises. I just was confused one of the

(56:37):
there's a chick. There's a chick who's.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
The main character on the show, who is from like
a British procedural detective murder show. So you'll love it.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
You're gonna me I'll recognize her.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
You're going to recognize a lot of people that I
wouldn't recognize Okay, you will recognize her. Yes, and breck
Elman randomly isn't it?

Speaker 2 (56:56):
No way, what the fuck is.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Breke Elman doing it?

Speaker 2 (56:59):
That's awesome?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
So weird.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I thought that you were saying her character she's playing
a girl who's from a procedural where I'm like, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
No, but you'll love you'll love it.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
It brought me a lot of joy because it gave
me feelings again. I good and I don't have those.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I like those. Yeah, listen, I uh am getting it
back into feelings for twenty seventeen, like even just trying
to say I think I want to have feelings again.
Two people that would actually listen to me. I know.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I think it's a good idea. This thing is healthy. Yeah,
I wanted to you know what I want. I had
therapy tod and I want to stop. I want to
have reality again. I mean it.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
I know what you mean.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I think because I think my therapist and I did
this like this like what is it called? Not activity?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
But like oh, like you did a I know you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
What is the word?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Oh you did a? You you drew weird uniforns.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
We did this we had an exercise exercise. Thank you.
I want to get my fucking memory.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
I want to move What if this's gone, has black
mold this whole time?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
That would be sa the reason.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
That then you go to the new house and then
you're like, you're like Bradley Cooper in that movie where
you like can see everything.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, and I'm like, I got to move back because
this is really overwhelming. It's too much.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Better the other way.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
It's too much for me. Yeah, we do these we
do these exercises where we sit in reality, and it
makes me realize that I've been disassociating with the world
because it's easier to filter in when I think that
there's a different plane of existence and this is all
fake and virtual reality mm hmm, and that every book

(58:45):
I read is like more real than life. Yes, are
you saying yes? Like you're scared of me and you
think I'm crazy?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
No I am not.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
So we do it and it's scary and overwhelming, and
she's like, how do I.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Say yes in a way they would because that was
the realest yes I've said in a while. Oh okay, no,
that's all yeah, And then hear you one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
And then she's like, leave it here, though, don't go
do that because you'll have a fucking panic attack if you.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Do it in real life, so you can't stay in
too long. Everybody copes in different ways. It's like my
therapist said to me one time when I had quit,
you know, don't drink anymore, quit doing anything extra, quit
And then I had quit sugar, and I'd quit this,
and I'd quit that, and she goes, well, you got
to do something because everybody needs a little bit of oblivion.

(59:30):
And I was like, you're fugging really good at your.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Job, Michelle. Everybody needs a bit of oblivion.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah, it's a lower back tattoo, big butterfly underneath beautiful.
Put it in quotes, misspell oblivion. Everybody needs a little
bit of olivion.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I'm oblivion.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
We're not geeming for perfection here. There's no perfection happening.
We don't want it.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
We're saying, feeling is in reality, feelings in pieces.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Of reality at times. Then dip back out and go
into your other world because I can't. I know I
have one, okay, but mine I haven't seen yet. It's
I'm so excited for the new FX series starring Tom
Hardy called Taboo, where he plays a guy that he's
like on the Secret Police Force in London in eighteen fourteen.

(01:00:23):
And it is the preview for it looks insanely beautiful.
It looks like it's shot, like it looks super real.
Like my thing, My way of disappearing from reality is
going into TV shows and going into Jane Austen movies
and shit where I'm like, it is no longer this year.
We are now back in the time where you sit

(01:00:44):
in your room and write letters. I can see if
somebody wants to come and sit in the salon with you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
I don't do that with movies. I do with books
because movies I'm like, that guy has a fucking headshot
that piece of shit motherfucker, Like someone dressed that person
in the wardrobe, Like assistant is so miserable, and like
someone threw coffee on her today, Like I can't why
I have to make that up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Keep you in. They don't do the shoe out, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Fleabag was one of the only ones I've been able
because I was able to when I just talked about yeah,
I was able to identify with her yes so much.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
So it was so real to you that you never left. Yes,
you stayed in that real.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Definitely why I liked it and Search party is like
it was real. I can't do that with movies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
So and that's why when you when you as soon
as you said Tom Hardy, I was out because everything
about that sounds amazing. But he'd can't but he will
take you out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
But pretty, I thought he was a I thought Tom
Hardy and whatever Hardy were, the football player, were the
same person. I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
He's just Tom Brady. Yeah, he's just like a pretty
the Tom family. Yeah, he's He's insanely pretty in this though.
It's like if Justin fucking Timberlake were playing him. It's true,
same thing. But let's talk about body difference. Tom Hardy
is a beefy. He's Hardy, slice baby, slice of what

(01:01:57):
a bab mince pie. I don't know something the man is.
I mean he's played a boxer like seventeen different times.
What a boxer?

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I thought you said something between the I don't know
what you said.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Yeah, it was a boxer. Okay, maybe I put a
little slide on that X Yeah, but yeah, I know.
I'm just saying he's insanely well built. If you ever
take a chance and watch Peaky Blinders.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
I tried, Okay, I don't like I told you know,
I don't like attractive, well built actors. I want to
I want to cut them down to size, okay, and
make them feel like shit about themselves. I just I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Uh Well, then yeah, no, Tom Hardy vehicle is going
to be good for you because the man exudes confidence
to the point of insane cockiness.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
I feel bad that everything you're saying, I'm like, I
don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like
that It's just one of those episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
But I will say that there's a lot of who cares.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
In this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
I think there's all kinds of extra shit happening because
like everything I see, and I've only seen the trailer,
so what do I know?

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Sounds it sounds awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
And he's painted like he's crawling through mud. He's like
he's the man that hasn't come out in the other episode.
He is doing all these things where I feel like
he's fighting the pretty as hard as he possibly can,
which in and of itself might be distracted.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
And maybe he needs to prove himself that he's like,
I'm not just pretty face because like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Yeah, I don't know that Tom Hardy's going to be
sitting around doubting himself in any way at any fucking time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
And can you imagine I mean, or maybe he does rightly,
but he just did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Did you see that? He made a video and it's
Tom Hardy reads you to sleep?

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
No, uh huh, well to see. If you don't hate that,
I'll try it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
It's like, oh, that's true. I think it's just him
being insanely sexy, but I don't. It's it's not like
he's my type sexiness wise, it's it's what I'm attracted
to sexually. Is eighteen fourteen London. I want to be there,
So bring me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
The plague on a fucking silver platter and tell me
about it on a fucking on Tom Parties Abs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Oh wait, can I do another one?

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Sorry?

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
Always this will dig us back out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
I mean that was what we were already out. Sorry,
but I mean this is just this is what I've
actually experienced, because that thing could be who knows. That's
my own trailer. That's my review of a trailer somebody,
And I'm sorry, I can't remember your name a lovely
gal on Twitter retweeted me a Rizamed tweet where he is.
Did you see that picture where he dove knows what

(01:04:34):
I'm talking aboutmed squatting down by a personalized license plate.
Oh that says I'm sad and he's throwing up like
the peace sign and he just looks kind of like neutral.
And she just sent it to me and just said
hey girl, and I was I just wrote back toward
and said, I've never been happy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
Oh my god, it's the best picture.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
I'm sad and he doesn't look sad at all. Also,
he is doing amazing human humanitarian work to raise money
for human human humanitarian work for to raise money for
people in Syria. He fucking tweets about it all the time.
He has a whole thing where it's like send me
ten dollars and get get five people to send ten dollars,
like he's busting his ass to raise money for Syrian refugees,

(01:05:19):
and it's it just is like, well, you're super great
actor that was just nominated for a Golden Globe, and
you look so good in a fucking bow tie, and
you have a good sense of humor because you know
enough to squat next to the I'm sad license plate.
Oh and you're gonna raise Tom Hardy ever?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Fucking done? Is it Tom Hardy?

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
What's Tom Hardy ever squatted next to? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
Nothing eighteen fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, we'll see what he squats next to you in
this fucking show. Now I'm mad at the show.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
I actually have another one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Oh yes, what if we start doing ten each?

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
I have the episode of Black Mirror. Yeah, it's called Sanjadaparo.
Didn't see. Oh my god, it's a lesbian love story.
I shouldn't have said that. That's a spoiler. It is
the most Just go watch San Jinnaparo. It's like the
most beautiful love story. So it's just that shouldn't have
such a good show. Charlie Booker, the guy that writes

(01:06:10):
that show. I think I think he wrote and directed
this episode. That might be wrong, too, but I bet
he did. It's such a it's such a it's not
even a Black Mirror episode. It's like such a beautiful
story that you can't see very often on television because
it's like because it's like spoiler alert because there's lots
of bands, but it's like it's just a love story. Okay,

(01:06:31):
I'll watch it, and it's heartbreaking and beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
I was actually avoiding Black Mirror because when I go
to my TV escape, I just want it to be
an actual escape. So so when it's a thing like
look at how your phone is gonna murder your eyes,
it's like I can't. I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Don't watch the first episode. It is so it's so good,
but it's it'll make you stop using your phone ever again.
Good luck, good Look, it's so good. Bryce. What's her name?

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Dallas Howard?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Dallas Howard? Is she in it? I think that's her,
unless it's another redhead.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Jessica Chastain. Those are the two look exactly the same.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
I know it's not Jessica Sage Chastain. I think it's
Bryce Dallas's Howard. It's she's so good, it's so good. Okay,
watch it, Okay, I watch it. There's shows do we
want to recommend? Recommend these shows?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Say you, every single show on TV.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Now we talk about it even though we don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
We don't know, we don't know who cares, We don't care.
We don't care. Stephen goes, we don't care. Cue that
fucking song. As we go out. Thanks for listening. Everybody,
You better fucking cue that song and swear to guy
Steven do it drive your thing. Thanks for listening. We
love you guys. Thank you for all your interaction.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
With us, your angel babies. We were at my favorite murdered.
I can't like follow us on ship and like go
to things and our lives.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yet we love you and stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis,
you want a cookie my cookie?

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Yeah it is cooky Elvis.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Elvis answer, you're goddamn cookie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
There we go, play us out, play us out, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Bye, sing along, care and I can't do it. Elvis
is singing along. Oh yeah, Elvis, sing it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Elvis sing it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
Cooky cookie Cookie.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Here's cookie. Everyone. Everyone who's trying to fall asleep listening
to this episode is like, fuck you Elvis about cookie.
We did last episode here, bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
I should get my address now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Okay, so we're back. Do you have updates for this story?

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
I do. More than thirty years later, Maureen and Rich
Kenkas still live in the home they shared with Megan,
which is incredible. In an interview with CBS, the Kenkas
said they're grateful to be able to spoil their grandsons
and enjoy quality time with their daughter and son, Megan's
two older siblings. The Keankas recognize that Megan's story has
done more than just create laws. It started a nationwide

(01:09:24):
movement and conversations with kids about safety, strangers and how
to avoid danger. Thirty years ago, Maureen Kenka said, quote,
don't sugarcoat it. Tell them what happens to little children
by sex offenders. I mean it's so hard, I'm sure,
but you got to warn kids about the dangers of life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Yes, I feel like since that time that has really changed,
where that was the kind of thing of like, oh,
that's inappropriate to talk about, And now obviously parents are
much more like that kind of like propriety concern is
not what you should be worried about. You should be
worried about keeping your kids safe.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Totally, And to this day, Maureene's message and mission are
still the same. It's to honor Megan by protecting children.
And then I also talked about the three tier system
as part of the Federal Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act.
So knock and notify is still a thing like you
see in the Big Lebowski. But it's state specific, not

(01:10:22):
federally mandated. I mean, that's how we all know it
from you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
It's the perfect thing. I was just referencing The Big
Lebowski to my dad the other day, where I'm like,
don't fuck with the Jesus Man, and I'm like, why
am I quoting the Big Lebowski to my father? He
does not know what I'm talking for.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Are you high that they give you? Did you have
the flu? And they gave you drugs? So it's usually
officers and not the offender who do the knock and
notify thing. And now in New Jersey where Megan lived,
knock and notify is mandatory, but only for Tier three
sex offenders, so that's interesting. But updated defender obligations now
include providing email addresses, Internet IDs, and verifying information every one,

(01:11:01):
three or six months, depending on the tier.

Speaker 6 (01:11:04):
So you know, I mean, what a historic story, the
kind of story that I think we would do differently
maybe now, but it's all the same, so important to
talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Yeah. And then so because we're ending on it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
It's like we could finally feel those heavy stories of
like we have to pivot here, it's too hard to
stay here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
It was a gleam in our eyes, not to be
total fucking downers.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Right, yeah, so important.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
So in this I recommended Fleabag before I was a
thing I didn't know. I'm so impressed with myself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
You should be. You called that you're a visionary. But
also I just saw a note that says Karen can't
figure out how to watch things on Amazon? What in
the fuck? What am I really that old? Like? It's like,
we're like, Stephen, can you help Karen watch something on
Amazon Prime?

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Or was it new? It must have been new?

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Yuess, So I didn't have a smart TV.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
You're confused that, and I'm confused. It's till to this
day about the difference between Tom Hardy and Tom Brady.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
I'm furious at you about that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
It's just a name thing. It's not a person thing.
I know one is light and one is evil. I know,
I know one is British and one is not.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
One is a New Englander or something.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
You can't give me too many names and expect the
world from me.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Yeah, the Tom ratio is too high for you? Yes? Yeah,
I mean if we could travel back in time until
that Karen and Georgia, Hey, hold on because you're excited
about Tom Hardy, and he will be there when somebody
else mentions your podcast name in front of him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
That's right in Venom three, The Last Dance, which stars
Tom Hardy. For sure, Yeah, Tom Hardy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Tom Brady did not star on Venom, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
Our podcast is mentioned and is pretty pretty fucking incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Also he's listed as a writer. So I think we
got ourselves excited one day thinking about like what if
he actually was making a reference. But the odds of
that are I would say between two and three percent.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Definitely on a good day.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
All right. So this episode, as we said, was originally
called a bit of Oblivion.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Which I think is I still think about that quote
because you say we all need a bit of oblivion,
and I think it's a pretty classic, excellent like saying.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
And I have to give full credit to my therapist.
That's her right where I was like, you know, talking
about all the ways that I love oblivion, which I
have a lot of them, and then she's just like,
we all need to get out of this reality every
once in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Escape. It's a thing. Yeah, but if we call it
something else, maybe we call it I'm laughing at my
own podcast, which I've done many, many times. Steven's apology Corner.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Sorry, Stephen, how about I'm sad just that picture with Rhizamed.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
I'm sad.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
I'm sad.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Back into feelings.

Speaker 6 (01:13:51):
I mean, there's so many whatever, Hardy whatever, Ady, Hardy's
the Hardy Boys.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Well, bless the rains down in Africa. So many in
this one. Yeah, Steven, help me watch Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Well, thanks you guys for listening to this episode of rewind.
We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll keep bringing them
to you. Yes, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 51: A Bit of Oblivion

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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