November 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Rev. Michael Beckwith, founder of Agape International Spiritual Center and one of the world’s most influential spiritual teachers, joins My Legacy with his plus one—Emmy-winning actor and longtime Agape member Sterling K. Brown.
In this powerful conversation with hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger, they explore how faith, forgiveness, and vision can shape a life of meaning.
Together, they reveal how:
- Forgiveness frees you more than the person you forgive
- Purpose begins when you stop chasing and start listening
- Embracing the feminine helps heal a divided world
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I was told inside by the ancestral realm that if
I did not take this next step and do what
I had promised to do, there was no more reason
for me to be on the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Reverend Michael beck With, founder of Agabe International Spiritual Center,
built a global movement that has awakened millions to their
higher purpose.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
One of the things that I've taught over the years
is that your pain pushes you until your vision holds you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Alongside him is Sterling K. Brown, the Emmy winning actor
who calls the Rev. Not just a mentor, but a
close friend.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A black man is currently blessing. It's a deeper shade
of soul.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
From faith, to fatherhood to forgiveness. They share the turning
points and lessons that changed everything.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And forgiveness is not condoning bad behavior from another person.
Forgiveness is releasing the toxicity.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was in the airport and there's a storyline on
this as us and this woman comes up to us,
black woman, as she says.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kill for a conversation about purpose, compassion,
and courage with two men.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Who live in you look at the world as it
appears to be, and the world is run by men
who have normalized insanity, wars, separation, disunity. I'm not going
to allow what you have done or said to take care.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Welcome to my legacy. Today, we're joined by one of
the most influential spiritual voices of our time whose message
has inspired millions around the world, Reverend Michael Beckworth. He's
also someone deeply personal to us. He's been a trusted
spiritual teacher to my two co hosts here, Andrea and Martin.
As our audience knows so well, our guests are always
(01:45):
joined by someone who knows them on a deeply personal level.
Reverend beckwith, would you mind introducing who's your plus one today?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
A plus one you're looking at, Brother Sterling K. Brown
came Brown, as you knows, an Emmy Award winning actor.
He's produced her executive director. But more than that, he's
been a longtime member of Agape and he's troubled with
us to Costa Rica as by the Way to do
some deep spiritual searching and practice. And he's an individual
(02:17):
that's really about being on the edge of the next
level of who he intends to be or who he
is meant to be. You know, we teach that there's
a should be, and we teach that there's.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
A meant to be.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And he's on the edge of always becoming more of
his greater yet to be, which you can see expressed
in his artistry. He has a beautiful wife, he has
two beautiful sons, so he's a family man as well,
and so people will look at him and see his
greatness on the screen, but behind the screen, he's deeply
ensconched to his family, the raising of his sons, and
(02:49):
constantly on the edge of his own spiritual growth, development
and unfoldment. And it's been my honor and joy just
to watch him grow in the community in a very
powerful way, and then that be projected onto the screen.
It's it's a it's a it's a powerful expression of
artistry and and love.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
That is one of the most beautiful introductions for a
guest that I have ever heard.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Was so well said here, but that is sterling.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Bless you, bless you all, thank you all for having me.
A black man is currently blessing. It's it's a deeper
shade of soul, so you may not witness it, but
it is happening right, Thank you, Jared.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
A deeper shade of soul like that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
You've you've learned a lot from from real.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
Sterling. You've called revn Beck with a spiritual mentor when
you first heard his teachings, what immediately resonated with you?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Wow, this is so interesting because I think there there
there are things that when I first introduced to a
Gape through my wife Ryn Michelle Batsak, who went there first,
and coming from a very sort of like thunderment, so
this Christian background, it was interesting because I was like,
what it is this dude, right, there are certain things
(04:09):
they're like like just sort of like not necessarily what
I was accustomed to. And then I had to listen
with new ears. It's as if, as in the Bible,
say give me ears to hear, eyes to see in
a heart of understanding. And there was nothing but love
that was coming from out of his mouth. That's all
I could hear. I was hearing about ways to connect
(04:31):
with people. I was hearing about this sort of false
illusion of separation and scarcity, and it sort of melted away.
And I was in the congregation and hymns would be
playing and people would be dancing and they would be
fully self expressed. And there would be people like who
came from a very black church background, and they were
hitting the beat and they were jamming the groupment. And
(04:52):
then there were people from a very different background and
they're dancing very flowy and moving. I said, how beautif
the fool is this that everybody can be in this
space together and express themselves as they are, authentically, fully truly,
And I saw the division that I thought existed melted away,
(05:14):
and I was able and free to just love people
as they are. I think that is the greatest gift
that the Rev Has sort of led me in this journey,
is to love people unconditionally. And I don't even think
we recognize how the conditions we place on our love
until you get a chance to see it at the
sixty thousand foot view and be like, oh wow, I
(05:35):
actually had more judgment than I was conscious of it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right, Wow, that's amazing, beautiful description of a gape man
in your experience as beautiful.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Thank you, Rev. You're beautiful too, man.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well you know, of course, Rev. It's no secret if
anybody listens into a gape, we're always around and there
it is. It is our home Martin Luther King Junior
was not the first one to name it, but he
certainly was the one to elevate the sense of agadbe
love and so we know, like there's just deep connections.
And of course Martin's sister was a member there and
(06:13):
his mother visited many times. But let's go back to
the beginning of your founding Agape, because you were in
your thirties, so I don't think we've ever talked about this,
like what gave you the conviction at such a young
age about you know, what was the vision and the
conviction that to take that leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I had a spiritual awakening when I was attending my
last year at USC and so my path of what
I thought I was going to do with my life change.
I did not think I was going to be a
public figure, but I knew that I was committed to
the presence of God and whatever that meant from my destiny.
I began a series of workshops that I would teach
(06:56):
and they were called the Agape Transformationals. But I got
the word of Gope from your dad, Martin. That's it.
As a matter of fact, it was called the Gope
Transformationals GOPE in honor of your dad, Transformation in honor
of Malcolm X. Because Malcolm X had a tremendous transformation
from a man who went to prison to a man
who became a powerful leader and a lover of humanity.
(07:20):
So my first organization was called the GOPE Transformationals And
then I was a spiritual therapist for seven years before
I even started a GOPE. And so when I went
to the School of Ministry later, I went there not
to become a minister, but I wanted to be in
conversation with teachers and professors and students at a high level.
(07:40):
I wanted to have a higher conversation than just me
teaching students. So it took me. It took me five
years to get out of a three year program because
I had no interest in graduating. I was only interested
in spiritual growth. And one day the assistant then came
to me and she said, Michael, when you're going to graduate?
And I said, I'm not here to graduate, I'm here
just to learn, And she said these magic words. Are
(08:03):
you aware that when you become an alumni, your classes
are free? So I jumped in, took some full loads,
and finally graduated and then there was an inner pressure
and an inner guidance, inner wisdom, a compulsion to start
a spiritual community. I on the surface didn't want to
(08:24):
do it. I liked my lifestyle. I had a number
of clients I had. I saw four or five six
people every day, five six days a week. I was
the director of Training at the World Ministry of Prayer.
I was doing my own seminars. I had my weekends off,
and I was told inside by the ancestral realm that
(08:49):
if I did not take this next step and do
what I had promised to do before I got here,
there was no more reason for me to be on
the planet.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It came very clear.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I started it on November thirtieth, nineteen eighty six. I
had to get over my own resistance. So it wasn't
like it definitely was courageous because I didn't know what
the heaven I was doing. I just followed the impress
of the spirit guiding me. It was like I had
(09:19):
no choice. Let me say that it was an inner
something that happened in which I had no choice but
to do it. And just on another note, because I
know you know this Martin Andrea. When I was attending
Holman's Methodist Church. That was the church my family attended
as a kid. I met your father as a young boy,
and I was about ten nine or ten years old,
(09:42):
and he was on the West coast to raise money
for SCLC, and my mother had me there watching him
and I shook his hand at the end of the
service and I said to my mom, his hands are
really really soft, and she said, he does a different
kind of work. So I had the opportunity to meet
(10:04):
your dad, and I'm sure that down the line that
impressed me spiritually and psychologically, that the talk of gape
always imprinted my my awareness. And subsequently I at first
school I went to was Morehouse College based on the
fact that doctor King went there.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Well, one thing our listeners, can you know, Our intention
is that they can take something away from every single
conversation that we have, and it's going to be much
to take away from today. But I hope that they
heard Martin Luther King Junior had soft hands, because we
hear that all. We hear that all the time, all
that people I met you that he has soft the
(10:42):
softest hands. We hear that all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Oh, that's that's really that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah it is, Yeah, yeah, rever Becka.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I love the origin story. In fact, I was actually
asking the Kings literally just before we started, like how
did someone so young become so successful in creating? So
I would be fearful to transition this to almost anyone
other than new Sterling, because I'm gonna ask about your
origin story because anyone following reverndbeck with is nearly impossible,
except for the fact that I am enough of a
(11:10):
fan of yours that I did actually at one point
watch one of your films then go, gosh, is he
a classically trained actor? Did he study Shakespeare? I remember
googling your background and going what he went to Stanford
for economics and then worked at the Federal Reserve. Like
that I did not expect as a background. So when
did acting move from a hobby to a calling for you?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Uh? Sure? So I acted all during high school from
Saint Louis, Missouri, and had a great time doing it,
but didn't know or consider to be a practical pursuit.
I got in Stanford University and they had the number
one e coime program, and I was like great. I
was in a program called in roads fornies, minority students
interested in business and industry. I had an internship at
(11:51):
the Federal Reserve Bank, and for two years I had
like a pretty clearly set path, right, I was gonna
get up. I probably go into investment banking. I do
all right, I have to make a contribution to my family.
I always thought that a pursuit of the arts was
something for people who didn't have to make a financial
contribution to their families or their community, et cetera. It
(12:12):
was a privilege that I was not afforded in my mind.
Got to Stanford University and I was living in one
of the ethnic theme houses, the African American theme house
called Jamay, which they thought mint unity, but it actually
means cooperative economics is one of the seven principles of Countess. Well,
you know, we tried. It was the seventies. We're trying
to figure stuff out anywhere.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
And by the way, they're still touting that. We were
just touring a couple of weeks ago, and they're like
sterling And here's why, I mean, like that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Is that part that is part of your legend.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
The legend, yes, so sorry, keep going.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
That's the wife and I lived in that together. We
did our first play together and it was the first
time because I went to this college prep school, first
time getting a chance to play a part that was
specifically African American. I'd done Tennessee Williams and Arn't for
Miller and all these sorts of things Shakespeare, but like
to do the words of August Wilson and the play
(13:08):
Joe Turner Coming Gone has this man is trying to
reunite his daughter with her mother because he gets taken
away from his family and put in a chain game.
And I had a wonderful time during the show. And
Professor Elon, who was a black man at Stanford, who
directed the play, and he said, listen, I know you
don't plan on majoringing this, but I think that the
(13:30):
department gets a lot from your involvement in it, and
I think you get something out of it as well.
So why don't you just keep auditioning for plays? And
that's what I did, And after two years of doing that,
I said, Oh, this thing that I think is a
hobby is actually the calling. My grades and ECON would
go up and all my other classes would go up
anytime I was doing a play. Because I was doing
(13:51):
something that fed my soul. And I wasn't following a
path that I thought I was supposed to be on
that other people thought I was supposed to be on.
I was on the path that I was supposed to
beyond because God told me. And I went to my mom.
I said, Mom, thinking about changing my major And she said, okay.
I said, I'm thinking about changing it to acting. And
she said what I knew, and she said and she said, Andrew,
(14:14):
she goes, did you pray about it? And I said, yes,
ma'am I did. And she said, and this is the
way you feel led And I said, yes, ma'am, I do.
And she has been one of my staunchest supporters from
that moment, hasn't missed the play et cetera. She now
has been living with als for the past eight years
or so, but up until that point, she was everywhere
(14:35):
that I was in a performance so.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Beautiful and I love. I love that's your mom's reaction
because I thought, obviously you're building that story to a
different direction for a moment there, but I think we
all thought where it was going. Can you share with us,
because you've shared it before the ghost light on stage
that moment purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Look at you, your research crab, Come on, man, So
I will stand. I stood on stage at Stanford University
and they have a ghost light. Every theater is never dark.
They're supposed to keep the ghosts off the stage, so
to speak. Right, not we know that's not that, but
that's what the ghost light is for. And I would
stand in front of the ghost light in front of
the audience of this play that I was working on,
(15:14):
and I could see my shadow cast out into the house,
and this sort of download from Spirit came in and
it said, for the next two hours, I am here
to entertain, to educate, and to edify. Right, I'm gonna
give you something to laugh about. I'm going to give
you something to think about, and hopefully I'm gonna inspire
you to be a better version of yourself and make
(15:35):
the world a better place. So I had this mandate
and this this what is it? What am a mission?
I don't know what it is? But like I was,
like I had a purpose, right, and it wasn't just
to make money. It wasn't for fame or fortune. It's like,
this is a ministry. That's the word.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was, Yes, yes, yes, I had.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
A ministry and I was like, oh, and so even
when things were down, I knew what my why was.
I knew why I was doing what I was doing.
I didn't know exactly how it was going to work
out or how it was going to manifest itself, but
the why was strong enough to carry me through until
things just started to fall into place. And it reminds
(16:16):
me of Read talking about like how he first started it.
He didn't know how it was going to happen, but
he knew why he had to do it. That why
is powerful. How didn't really make that much difference. Everything
will fall the place if you know it. The why why? Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Coming up, Rev and Sterling open up about faith in
fatherhood and the women in their lives.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Now back to my legacy, and I know that so
many people come to you when they're in pain. You know,
you've you've talked to both Martin and I together individually.
Our daughter will call you, know, mattaf you're in Costa
Rica and be like, Rev, I have a question, help
me deal with death. I mean like she, you know,
she she literally calls you on your cell phone when
(17:02):
she has very hard questions. So in all of your
years of guiding others what is the one principle that
you return to again and again when someone is wrestling
with a difficult situation.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
The one principle is unity is oneness. It's if I
could get an individual to just capture that they are
one with the presents and not separated, regardless of what
they have done, regardless of what someone is done to them,
then the healing can happen. And a healing is defined
(17:38):
as a real revelation of that truth. It's not just
the healing of a physical symptom or psychological or mental.
It's a revelation of the truth of our being. And
if I can just bring them into that, then what
I teach is that the presence of God doesn't solve problems,
(18:00):
but in the presence of God, problems dissolve because they
are not real in the mind of God. They're just
perceptions that have become experience. And let me just say this.
When I was attending Morehauth College, a friend of mine
and I named Kenneth, we used to do a practical joke.
We used to take a book of matches and we
(18:21):
would like the match, load it out and then touch
the person with a cold match. They would inevitably develop
a heat blister on their hand, thinking they were being
touched by a hot match. In other words, they were
experiencing something that wasn't real. So when I look at individuals,
I see them experiencing not reality. They're experiencing their thoughts
(18:44):
about reality, and it becomes an experience. And so I
stand in an awareness of that which is beyond their
experience and pull them back to that which is real.
So an individual can something terrible could have happened to them,
or they could have done something terrible to someone, and
(19:05):
ultimately I can pull them back to their real self,
and then the healing will happen in in their in
their life, because in the mind of God, there's only
divine order in harmony and peace. Everything else is an
experience based on our perception. Does that make sense? That's
that's very real to me. And I know I've heard
(19:27):
people teach it to to a degree, but unless you've
had a real encounter with reality, they're just words, you know.
But but but it's very real. So oneness and unity
is the main principle deeply profound struggling.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I want to actually to ask Hugh though to reflect
on Reverend and what I'm gonna ask you, is he
just spoke about this role, that reality real, not real
when you are searching, when you are struggling, when you
are experiencing difficulty. What is one teaching of REVS that
you find is an island of strength for you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
There's a lot. There's a few things that he says
that always sort of reverberate in in my consciousness. I
think first and foremost that there is a divine conspiracy
for my success right that, regardless of what you know
external circumstances may look like like, we live in a
(20:27):
friendly universe and God is already said you want like
that faith of a mustard seed is saying that, like
I see within you who you are already supposed to be,
who you are already made to be. And you may
be in the process, you don't know where you are
in that process of becoming the fullest version of yourself.
(20:47):
But God only relates to you as the fullest version
of yourself right, as a complete whole manifestation a divine
you know, unique emanation of love, beauty and divine intelligence.
There's so many words that just sort of like these
are all the reels work. They just come like, don't
be quick to offense like, that's another one that hits
(21:09):
me up everyone to like where I felt like, oh,
should I be offended? And I was like, no, you
know what, you don't have to be offended like there
is I'm jumping around. Let me go back to the device.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That was good though, ma'am, I have to have you
come preaching a god.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
You can do it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You can do a testimony that conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Like right now, I just have a partial rupture of
my achilles tendon and I'm laid up so to speak
for a moment and in a period of forced rest.
But there's also, like in everything given thanks rejoicing always,
there is gratitude in this opportunity, and I get a
chance to ask myself, what God would you have in
(21:47):
store for me? Right now? What's next? I can't wait
to see what's about to come my way? Right so,
instead of focusing on the things that would make me
feel down or sad or what have you. And believe me,
it goes like this to a certain except but through
that reminder, right, I get a chance to sort of
like move up a little bit and not go down,
so to speak. That was a long leader to answer,
(22:07):
and I gave you more than than one. But that
divine conspiracy for my success is something that always comes.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
But you also mentioned something that that actually is a
sermon of MLK, one of my favorite sermons, which is
is the Universe Friendly? He always says like that is
one of the most fundamental questions that any of us
must answer.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Rev.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
We're gonna I'm gonna go to phenomenal women because I
know you so well and I know that there's you're
surrounded by phenomenal women. I never had the opportunity of
meeting your mother, Alice, but I know how important she
was to you. I know you know, of course your daughter.
I know all of the phenomenal ministers. I know the magnificent, incredible,
(22:52):
And we're gonna make sure we leave this in Lee.
My question to you is what gifts do you believe
that women bring that the world old needs always, but
particularly right now.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, you know you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Look at the world as it appears to be, and
the world is run by men who have normalized insanity, wars, separation, disunity,
men primarily who profit after after a prison industrial system.
They profit after the cell of armaments. You know, women
(23:26):
have a tendency to bring people together in community. They're
not gonna a woman a mother, and everyone does have
to be a mother to have this, to have this frequency.
But she's not gonna love one child more than she
loves another child. She's always created a community. And I
think with the rise of the feminine in women, and
(23:50):
you'll see a different world. You won't see the my
country first, my country right or wrong consciousness. You'll see
you know, as you're as as as Modern's father talked about.
You know, this is a global community. We're all world citizens.
And I think women bring that kind of nurturing compassion
(24:10):
because they don't see just separate parts. They see the whole,
They see family, they see community, and I think that
is extremely important, particularly at this time in human history
where where it could be on the verge of another
war based on a saber rattling and might makes right consciousness,
which is an old masculine frequency.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And so.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Women, you know, I don't want to be stereotypical, but
they have a very strong vibration of caretaking. They caretake,
they want to bring peace, you see. And sometimes the
masculine energy is more led by an individual in the
rough individualism, which can create separation and we see that
(24:59):
on an international scene at this time. So you know,
I always tell people you know, uh, they'll be I say,
you listen to your women. You know she noticed something.
He's catching something intuitively, you know, Nick and Martin look
at his wife.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I thought that it was very fascinating recently that the
Godfather of Ai, you know, made headlines by saying that
Ai can be saved and only can be saved by
some type of way, integrating maternal instinct into it. And
so I think that there's a lot of wisdom in that.
(25:39):
I think it is time for all of us to
fight like mothers and brother like you said, like whether
you have a physical child or not, but you know,
to fight with that sense of unity, with that sense
of for the community, with the sense of compassion, with
that sense of ferociousness but protectiveness, with that sense of creation,
with that sense of looking not only remembering seven generations past,
(26:00):
but looking seven generations forward, with the nurturing.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And I often hear the Rev talking about, you know,
everyone embracing the divine, feminine, feminine within themselves, right male
or female, right, and the idea which used to be
anathema to me from a different paradigm is like, why
would I embrace anything that's femine. I'm a man. You
can be a man and be in touch with your
(26:23):
femine feminine. Your femine is creative, your feminine is powerful,
your feminine is nurturing, right, and sort of trying to
divide yourself. You know, there is unity in accepting and
embracing all of who you are.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But that's the truth. That's the truth. Everyone has both energies, yes, yeah,
and you know we have to have to embrace them,
both of the perfectly whole human sterling.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
You and your wife Ryan are this amazingly powerful Hollywood
couple and you did a podcast together. We don't always agree.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
For here, you said that love when he looks over
here at me.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
So what is the most important thing you've learned about
navigating conflict with your partner.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
That's a good question. I mean that that conflict or
confrontation is a natural part of relationship, right, It's not
something to be avoided. I actually find that when you
avoid confrontation, whatever the sort of underlying issue that you
wanted to address becomes bigger rather than smaller. And so
whatever is uncomfortable about a conversation pales in comparison to
(27:38):
the discomfort that comes from not having the conversation right.
Talk to each other, like even if you upset and
you're frustrated, et cetera. In the midst of that, find
a way to take a breath, come to each other
in love with nobody trying to win or lose, and
we call it. We don't always agree because we don't,
but nobody has to be a winner in it or
(27:59):
a loser. We just have to reach a place of
understanding with each other. I think the biggest thing the
problems for us have always been biggest when we stop talking.
Stay in relationships, stay in communication, Like even when it's uncomfortable,
just stay there, breathe through it. Nothing bad is going
to come from it. Tough things come when you start
(28:19):
to walk away from each other. Just stay here, stay
in the space together. That's been the big one.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
You both met at Stanford and have certainly been together
ever since. What's one small thing that you still do
for each other that keeps the sparkerlive.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
One of the biggest things for my wife and I
truly is that we laugh hard together. She's one of
the funniest people that I know she is funny, she
is hysterical, and we can laugh, and we can. And
part of the podcast was us being able to look
(29:00):
back on different parts of our life that, while we
were in the midst of them, were sort of difficult
to discuss, but we were sort of delighted to find that, like, oh,
we've actually made it to the other side. We can
look back and actually have a sense of humor about
who we were at age twenty two, twenty five, et cetera,
et cetera. Like that was an absolute joy to discover.
So our ability to laugh with each other and to
(29:22):
make each other laugh has been a saving grace, Like
it's been wonderful.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might. We're
sharing real stories, heart one wisdom and unforgettable lessons that
stay with you long after the screen goals. Start tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that truly count.
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
I want to ask both of you actually about an
incredibly important part of who you are and all of
us in fact. So we're all parents. I got three boys.
They keep me, keep me busy, and so when I
like five children, Oh my god, they're like human tornadoes,
like God blessom. I love them. I love them, but
you know, so I'm going to ask each of you.
I'm actually gonna start with Rev. Reverend back with you're
(30:09):
not only a father, you're a grandfather. So I'm curious,
what advice did you give your own children on raising children?
And did they listen to you?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Did they actually listen the success of a when you're
a parent, when the child has they have a good
heart that on the planet, they're not going to bring
mess on the planet. They're going to be open hearted.
They're going to be compassionate, be kind and find their
(30:40):
particular gifted area of which they're going to share in
the planet. So I look back and I look at
them now they're both adults. They are within their own
groups because they're like they're like how many they're like
nine ten years apart. They are like the spiritual leaders
of their own peers.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And and they got at osmosis. I just noticed that,
you know them were upfront with it now, but it
just kind of an osmosis. They're the person that brings
people back. Oh, we should sit down and we should
vision about this, or we should have this idea about this,
you know, and and so maybe they didn't listen at first,
(31:23):
but it got in there anyway. And so now it
does my heart good when I actually I see the matagape.
They're a part of the community and in very powerful ways.
And I didn't force them to do that. And maybe
as a child I forced them to come to church,
you know, but now they're adults, that's their own choice.
(31:44):
They love being there, they love being in the energy,
so they're they're there. I can really say that they
are really good people. Their trustworthy, they're honest, they have integrity.
Those are very great qualities. And my oldest son, he
has three boys, who okay, so I have three grand
(32:05):
he has three boys. I have three grandchildren and the
oldest grandchildren has two children.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
You great grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, I'm out in myself.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So sterling. By the way, the last time that Rev
and I were at at a basketball game together, I
kept asking him, so I'm gonna say this, because he
wouldn't give an answer. I was like, Rev, how old are you, sir?
Question totally impolite, I understand, I totally applayed, and he
never gave me an answer.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
My interest in age age isn't interested in me. Age
is just a number of minds unlisted. So only because
people will look at you a certain way.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Sure you know what I mean, don't.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I don't need to. I don't need to transcend how
other people think about me. I'm just time this ageless
in eternals how I vibe in myself?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
So sterling, and I love your response because I know
you have two boys. Yeah, what has being a father
taught you about yourself?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It is? It is the role that I've always looked
for too. Since I was a kid, I was being
a dad. I think I have an older brother and
an older sister, so I was a young uncle. I
got six nieces and nephews, and I would be fourteen
like taking kids to church and everything, and I, you know,
have like strollers and blankets and bottles and stuff. I
(33:20):
as one of those rare dudes who just loves children,
and I still do now with my youngest I helped
coach his basketball team and his flag football team. My
oldest son is playing soccer, but I used to help
out there as well. What I learned about myself, I
think a lot of it has to do with the
fact that my pops passed away when I was fairly young.
(33:42):
I was ten years old, and I thought that he
did a great job. He because in an era of
men where loving unabashedly wasn't necessarily in fashion, he didn't
care like my dad would kiss me on the lips,
so whatnot. I remember one time, I was like eight
(34:03):
and a half or something, and you go, all right, boy,
get your dad a kiss. And I'd be like, I
go for the cheek, and you were you too old
to get your dad to kiss. I'm like, oh, right, man,
let's keep it moving, you know what I'm saying. But
he he just loved me in such a beautiful way.
And I tell people that, even though he's been gone
(34:25):
for almost forty years now, like the reservoir of love
that I have in my soul, I carry with me
and I'm able to pour from that cup into these
beautiful boys that I have as well. Right, so, I think,
what you learned, and this is because I have too.
I did have this one thought. I don't know if
anybody ever had this thought, but the second one, and
or of the third probably was just the seconde. I
(34:47):
love this one as much as I love the first one. Right,
they have this just for a second, and then they
showed up like that's a dumb thing. This you never
run out of it. Like the more you have it,
the more you have to give, and the more it
just keeps filling up, right, and so like in terms
of that lost scarcity that we talk about, rev hoarding
(35:10):
doesn't give you more of something, It keeps you cut
off from the flow that is meant to sort of
just circulate within your life. And that could be money
that could be loved, that could be anything like let
it go, let it out, share it as much as possible,
and you find yourself inundated with more than you had
to that you could have ever imagined.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
It's beautiful because I'm sitting here literally in a circle
of all fathers. So it's really beautiful to witness the
love of fathers. And actually, Craig, it kind of reminded
me his story about his father kissing him reminded me
about the story that you shared. Craig and his brother
Mark recently their father recently transitioned and we went to
(35:50):
his memorial service and you shared that story. Can you
please like share the story about the kiss every mother.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Every night, every night he would always kiss me on
my forehead before you know, I went to sleep, and
eventually Sterling, kind of like yourself.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I came up an age where I was like, Dad.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
You know, you know, and he said, okay, Well he
bent down his forehead and he let me kiss him
on his forehead instead. When I became too tall, and
every night before i'd go to sleep, he would just
you know. I now do that with my kids. Every
night before they go to bed, I say I love you,
I love you, I love you some more, and may
(36:29):
God always protect you no matter what. Every night with
my boys.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Yeah, and you still kissed your father off his forehead
until he until just.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
The day he passed, In fact, the hospitals just with
the night transitioned. That was my final kiss.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah, my transitioning.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
When my boys go to bed, the youngest one has
no problem kissing me. He'd give me a kiss. He'll
kiss me easily until the day I transition over to
the other side of the veil. The eldest still will
try to pull away. But if you get them right
at bedtime, put up any resistance and you step up
to his bunk and you just lean over, he'll be like.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
So we've been talking about the best, most tender moments
of families, but we all seen in recent times that
politics has really torn some family and friends apart in
recent years. And Rev, I know that you've said that
a lack of forgiveness is a high form of self abuse.
What did you mean by that? And how do we
(37:37):
all find the courage to forgive when it feels impossible.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
To answer that question? We have to understand what forgiveness is,
and forgiveness is not condoning bad behavior from another person.
Forgiveness is releasing the toxicity that flows through our own
spiritual veins. Hate, resentment, animosity. Those create toxic chemicals in
(38:03):
the body temple which debilitate us physically and psychologically. So
forgiveness frees us from a prison that we have created.
So it's not about condoning somebody else and saying, you know,
I'm just going to look the other way based on
what you've done it. I'm not going to allow what
you have done or said to take me down. So
(38:26):
a lack of forgiveness is a high form of self
abuse because we're abusing ourselves. And so when you understand that,
it's not about courage, it's about self love again, and
then you're able to have a level of clarity as
(38:46):
to what right action is in that particular situation. You
can't have clarity if your mind is clouded with eight
or resentment or animosity. But as that and I'm not
saying this is an easy thing, because people have done
heineous things, you know, but it's definitely a part of
the process. I mean, Martin's father was a strong affgating
(39:09):
practitioner of this, making sure that we turn enemies into friends.
But that doesn't happen without forgiveness. It's an impossibility. And
we just so we have to have more and more
moral leadership that rises to that level. I mean recently,
we just saw, you know, at that memorl service, one
(39:32):
person forgiving their enemies and the one that's supposed to
unify us saying I'm going to hate my entities and
take them down.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
It's it's like there was the shining example of a
maturity and immaturity screaming at us right there on national television.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
So, so forgiveness is powerful, and when one can grow
into the consciousness of forgiveness, one can be free, an
escape from the limited perceptions of life. It's necessary to grow.
And you know, every every spiritual path with heart has
some level of forgiveness in it, some level of making amends,
(40:14):
some levels of introspection and for giving one's self for
the misdeeds or missteps or things that should have been
said or that were said that hurts somebody. Every path
has a way of going in and trying to clear
that up because it's all energy. It's all energy, you see.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Well, speaking of conditioning your mind, rev you even your
podcast is take back your mind, so you have your constantly.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
For a podcast. I'm going to put that out there.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Actually, that's a phenomenal name.
Speaker 5 (40:46):
So your words and teachings have inspired and healed millions
around the world. And you know, I know that you
must hear countless stories about the impact that you've had.
Is there one story in particular or that you carry
with you, you know, doctor King, I've heard your mother
say that he would preach himself out of depression sometimes
(41:08):
when he you know, so we all, you know, have
moments of heaviness. Is there one story that you carry
with you to give you encouragement when you need that
encouragement for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I'm getting a lot for some reason. I'm in a
season of getting a lot of feedback from people all
around the world everywhere I go with interesting stories of
transformation or healings and things of that particular nature. And
that might just be because of my receptivity.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I don't know. They may have been going on all.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The time, but just so many stories you got me
through COVID, this this type of thing. There's one story
of a woman who was passing over from a brain
tumor and she's in her house. She was in the
hospital and her family. She liked the gape, and her
family put a cassette player or CD player in her
(41:59):
room and it started playing my sermons. She got up
and left the hospital. That brain tumor disappeared. I'm not
saying I did that, but her receptivity and her faith
and utilizing that that vibration of the word helped her.
So there's a lot of stories that are coming to
(42:20):
me now that I guess just to give me a
level of you're doing okay, keep going, you know, within
my own you know, within my own space, because you know,
when in a community is.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Not an easy thing.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
People see, people see a Sunday talk, but they have
no idea, what's going on in a community and staffing
and finances and this and that and the other. You
know that has to go on, and so it was
it may be just an impetus for my own soul,
you know, to hear these stories.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
People need inspiration. People are craving inspiration, and they crave
it from the pulpit, they crave it from the screens.
And my wife and I we would sit together and
actually watch This is Us your of course Emmy Award winning.
I got to point that out role in you know,
as you mentioned Randall Pearson on the show, what is
(43:14):
the most meaningful conversation that anyone's walked up to? And
they said how that role resonated with them and how
it impacted them.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Ooh, there's a lot. There's a lot Craig like people,
people roll up on your boy and it's like, can
I have a hug? Like That's like, that's one thing.
I had a lot of shows ilicit you know, Paradise
doesn't elicit hugs, but This is Us does. But there
there was a moment. There's a few, but one that
really touched my soul. I was in the airport and
(43:44):
there's a storyline on this is us where our eldest
biological daughter comes out as she may be Bye or gay,
et cetera. And this woman comes up to us, a
black woman, and she sees me and she said, I
did not have the same love of grace that you
and Beth had when my daughter came out to me,
but I know that I can do better. And she
(44:07):
just walked and she said thank you, and she kept
on going, and I was like, you know, you forget.
They're like, I'm doing a little show and I think
it's nice and it has some residence whatnot. But then
you see like real sort of tangible things like that,
and you're like, thank you God for allowing me to
be of service and that, Oh my god. You know,
I tell you a quick story. My daughter and her mother.
(44:31):
Her mother was sick and passing over.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
We did we didn't really know how fast she was
going to pass over. But the storyline in there about
the mother and daughter healing. Yeah, they watched that together
and it opened up a conversation that they never had
as adults about the mother and my childrens, her background,
her past, her mother, and how she became who she became.
(44:57):
It just opened up this beautiful conversation. They bonded so
completely before she passed over. They watched that together and
it just opened them up, changed both their lives.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
It was It was one of those things where people
would tell us, like, we rarely watch shows every week,
and sometimes I watch them by myself, but like me
and my family sit down and we watch your show.
I would hear that many many times, and I think,
especially as divisive as things are seemingly right now, it
was nice to add a little bit of unity to
(45:28):
the world, to the country. Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
What a beautiful story. The extraordinary Reverend Michael beckwith the
equally extraordinary Sterling K. Brown. Gentlemen, thank you for guiding
us in a conversation of spirit, soul and wisdom, turning
points forgiveness, the divine conspiracy of success, lessons of faith,
power of storytelling. Most importantly, even the darkest hour's life
(45:55):
can be chosen and love can be lived. Gentlemen, Thank
you for living your legacies.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Thank you for having us. Man. This has been a
thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Thank you for thank you for letting me bring an
extraordinary plus one.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I've never been a plus one before. You are the one.
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
(46:45):
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producer Susanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
I was told inside by the ancestral realm that if
I did not take this next step and do what
I had promised to do, there was no more reason
for me to be on the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Reverend Michael beck With, founder of Agabe International Spiritual Center,
built a global movement that has awakened millions to their
higher purpose.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
One of the things that I've taught over the years
is that your pain pushes you until your vision holds you.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Alongside him is Sterling K. Brown, the Emmy winning actor
who calls the Rev. Not just a mentor, but a
close friend.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
A black man is currently blessing. It's a deeper shade
of soul.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
From faith, to fatherhood to forgiveness. They share the turning
points and lessons that changed everything.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And forgiveness is not condoning bad behavior from another person.
Forgiveness is releasing the toxicity.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It was in the airport and there's a storyline on
this as us and this woman comes up to us,
black woman, as she says.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Join host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kill for a conversation about purpose, compassion,
and courage with two men.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Who live in you look at the world as it
appears to be, and the world is run by men
who have normalized insanity, wars, separation, disunity. I'm not going
to allow what you have done or said to take care.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Welcome to my legacy. Today, we're joined by one of
the most influential spiritual voices of our time whose message
has inspired millions around the world, Reverend Michael Beckworth. He's
also someone deeply personal to us. He's been a trusted
spiritual teacher to my two co hosts here, Andrea and Martin.
As our audience knows so well, our guests are always
(01:45):
joined by someone who knows them on a deeply personal level.
Reverend beckwith, would you mind introducing who's your plus one today?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
A plus one you're looking at, Brother Sterling K. Brown
came Brown, as you knows, an Emmy Award winning actor.
He's produced her executive director. But more than that, he's
been a longtime member of Agape and he's troubled with
us to Costa Rica as by the Way to do
some deep spiritual searching and practice. And he's an individual
(02:17):
that's really about being on the edge of the next
level of who he intends to be or who he
is meant to be. You know, we teach that there's
a should be, and we teach that there's.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
A meant to be.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And he's on the edge of always becoming more of
his greater yet to be, which you can see expressed
in his artistry. He has a beautiful wife, he has
two beautiful sons, so he's a family man as well,
and so people will look at him and see his
greatness on the screen, but behind the screen, he's deeply
ensconched to his family, the raising of his sons, and
(02:49):
constantly on the edge of his own spiritual growth, development
and unfoldment. And it's been my honor and joy just
to watch him grow in the community in a very
powerful way, and then that be projected onto the screen.
It's it's a it's a it's a powerful expression of
artistry and and love.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
That is one of the most beautiful introductions for a
guest that I have ever heard.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Was so well said here, but that is sterling.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Bless you, bless you all, thank you all for having me.
A black man is currently blessing. It's it's a deeper
shade of soul, so you may not witness it, but
it is happening right, Thank you, Jared.
Speaker 5 (03:26):
A deeper shade of soul like that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
You've you've learned a lot from from real.
Speaker 6 (03:34):
Sterling. You've called revn Beck with a spiritual mentor when
you first heard his teachings, what immediately resonated with you?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Wow, this is so interesting because I think there there
there are things that when I first introduced to a
Gape through my wife Ryn Michelle Batsak, who went there first,
and coming from a very sort of like thunderment, so
this Christian background, it was interesting because I was like,
what it is this dude, right, there are certain things
(04:09):
they're like like just sort of like not necessarily what
I was accustomed to. And then I had to listen
with new ears. It's as if, as in the Bible,
say give me ears to hear, eyes to see in
a heart of understanding. And there was nothing but love
that was coming from out of his mouth. That's all
I could hear. I was hearing about ways to connect
(04:31):
with people. I was hearing about this sort of false
illusion of separation and scarcity, and it sort of melted away.
And I was in the congregation and hymns would be
playing and people would be dancing and they would be
fully self expressed. And there would be people like who
came from a very black church background, and they were
hitting the beat and they were jamming the groupment. And
(04:52):
then there were people from a very different background and
they're dancing very flowy and moving. I said, how beautif
the fool is this that everybody can be in this
space together and express themselves as they are, authentically, fully truly,
And I saw the division that I thought existed melted away,
(05:14):
and I was able and free to just love people
as they are. I think that is the greatest gift
that the Rev Has sort of led me in this journey,
is to love people unconditionally. And I don't even think
we recognize how the conditions we place on our love
until you get a chance to see it at the
sixty thousand foot view and be like, oh wow, I
(05:35):
actually had more judgment than I was conscious of it.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right, Wow, that's amazing, beautiful description of a gape man
in your experience as beautiful.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Thank you, Rev. You're beautiful too, man.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Well you know, of course, Rev. It's no secret if
anybody listens into a gape, we're always around and there
it is. It is our home Martin Luther King Junior
was not the first one to name it, but he
certainly was the one to elevate the sense of agadbe
love and so we know, like there's just deep connections.
And of course Martin's sister was a member there and
(06:13):
his mother visited many times. But let's go back to
the beginning of your founding Agape, because you were in
your thirties, so I don't think we've ever talked about this,
like what gave you the conviction at such a young
age about you know, what was the vision and the
conviction that to take that leap of faith.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I had a spiritual awakening when I was attending my
last year at USC and so my path of what
I thought I was going to do with my life change.
I did not think I was going to be a
public figure, but I knew that I was committed to
the presence of God and whatever that meant from my destiny.
I began a series of workshops that I would teach
(06:56):
and they were called the Agape Transformationals. But I got
the word of Gope from your dad, Martin. That's it.
As a matter of fact, it was called the Gope
Transformationals GOPE in honor of your dad, Transformation in honor
of Malcolm X. Because Malcolm X had a tremendous transformation
from a man who went to prison to a man
who became a powerful leader and a lover of humanity.
(07:20):
So my first organization was called the GOPE Transformationals And
then I was a spiritual therapist for seven years before
I even started a GOPE. And so when I went
to the School of Ministry later, I went there not
to become a minister, but I wanted to be in
conversation with teachers and professors and students at a high level.
(07:40):
I wanted to have a higher conversation than just me
teaching students. So it took me. It took me five
years to get out of a three year program because
I had no interest in graduating. I was only interested
in spiritual growth. And one day the assistant then came
to me and she said, Michael, when you're going to graduate?
And I said, I'm not here to graduate, I'm here
just to learn, And she said these magic words. Are
(08:03):
you aware that when you become an alumni, your classes
are free? So I jumped in, took some full loads,
and finally graduated and then there was an inner pressure
and an inner guidance, inner wisdom, a compulsion to start
a spiritual community. I on the surface didn't want to
(08:24):
do it. I liked my lifestyle. I had a number
of clients I had. I saw four or five six
people every day, five six days a week. I was
the director of Training at the World Ministry of Prayer.
I was doing my own seminars. I had my weekends off,
and I was told inside by the ancestral realm that
(08:49):
if I did not take this next step and do
what I had promised to do before I got here,
there was no more reason for me to be on
the planet.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It came very clear.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I started it on November thirtieth, nineteen eighty six. I
had to get over my own resistance. So it wasn't
like it definitely was courageous because I didn't know what
the heaven I was doing. I just followed the impress
of the spirit guiding me. It was like I had
(09:19):
no choice. Let me say that it was an inner
something that happened in which I had no choice but
to do it. And just on another note, because I
know you know this Martin Andrea. When I was attending
Holman's Methodist Church. That was the church my family attended
as a kid. I met your father as a young boy,
and I was about ten nine or ten years old,
(09:42):
and he was on the West coast to raise money
for SCLC, and my mother had me there watching him
and I shook his hand at the end of the
service and I said to my mom, his hands are
really really soft, and she said, he does a different
kind of work. So I had the opportunity to meet
(10:04):
your dad, and I'm sure that down the line that
impressed me spiritually and psychologically, that the talk of gape
always imprinted my my awareness. And subsequently I at first
school I went to was Morehouse College based on the
fact that doctor King went there.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Well, one thing our listeners, can you know, Our intention
is that they can take something away from every single
conversation that we have, and it's going to be much
to take away from today. But I hope that they
heard Martin Luther King Junior had soft hands, because we
hear that all. We hear that all the time, all
that people I met you that he has soft the
(10:42):
softest hands. We hear that all the time.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So that is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Oh, that's that's really that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah it is, Yeah, yeah, rever Becka.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I love the origin story. In fact, I was actually
asking the Kings literally just before we started, like how
did someone so young become so successful in creating? So
I would be fearful to transition this to almost anyone
other than new Sterling, because I'm gonna ask about your
origin story because anyone following reverndbeck with is nearly impossible,
except for the fact that I am enough of a
(11:10):
fan of yours that I did actually at one point
watch one of your films then go, gosh, is he
a classically trained actor? Did he study Shakespeare? I remember
googling your background and going what he went to Stanford
for economics and then worked at the Federal Reserve. Like
that I did not expect as a background. So when
did acting move from a hobby to a calling for you?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Uh? Sure? So I acted all during high school from
Saint Louis, Missouri, and had a great time doing it,
but didn't know or consider to be a practical pursuit.
I got in Stanford University and they had the number
one e coime program, and I was like great. I
was in a program called in roads fornies, minority students
interested in business and industry. I had an internship at
(11:51):
the Federal Reserve Bank, and for two years I had
like a pretty clearly set path, right, I was gonna
get up. I probably go into investment banking. I do
all right, I have to make a contribution to my family.
I always thought that a pursuit of the arts was
something for people who didn't have to make a financial
contribution to their families or their community, et cetera. It
(12:12):
was a privilege that I was not afforded in my mind.
Got to Stanford University and I was living in one
of the ethnic theme houses, the African American theme house
called Jamay, which they thought mint unity, but it actually
means cooperative economics is one of the seven principles of Countess. Well,
you know, we tried. It was the seventies. We're trying
to figure stuff out anywhere.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
And by the way, they're still touting that. We were
just touring a couple of weeks ago, and they're like
sterling And here's why, I mean, like that.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Is that part that is part of your legend.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
The legend, yes, so sorry, keep going.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
That's the wife and I lived in that together. We
did our first play together and it was the first
time because I went to this college prep school, first
time getting a chance to play a part that was
specifically African American. I'd done Tennessee Williams and Arn't for
Miller and all these sorts of things Shakespeare, but like
to do the words of August Wilson and the play
(13:08):
Joe Turner Coming Gone has this man is trying to
reunite his daughter with her mother because he gets taken
away from his family and put in a chain game.
And I had a wonderful time during the show. And
Professor Elon, who was a black man at Stanford, who
directed the play, and he said, listen, I know you
don't plan on majoringing this, but I think that the
(13:30):
department gets a lot from your involvement in it, and
I think you get something out of it as well.
So why don't you just keep auditioning for plays? And
that's what I did, And after two years of doing that,
I said, Oh, this thing that I think is a
hobby is actually the calling. My grades and ECON would
go up and all my other classes would go up
anytime I was doing a play. Because I was doing
(13:51):
something that fed my soul. And I wasn't following a
path that I thought I was supposed to be on
that other people thought I was supposed to be on.
I was on the path that I was supposed to
beyond because God told me. And I went to my mom.
I said, Mom, thinking about changing my major And she said, okay.
I said, I'm thinking about changing it to acting. And
she said what I knew, and she said and she said, Andrew,
(14:14):
she goes, did you pray about it? And I said, yes,
ma'am I did. And she said, and this is the
way you feel led And I said, yes, ma'am, I do.
And she has been one of my staunchest supporters from
that moment, hasn't missed the play et cetera. She now
has been living with als for the past eight years
or so, but up until that point, she was everywhere
(14:35):
that I was in a performance so.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Beautiful and I love. I love that's your mom's reaction
because I thought, obviously you're building that story to a
different direction for a moment there, but I think we
all thought where it was going. Can you share with us,
because you've shared it before the ghost light on stage
that moment purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Look at you, your research crab, Come on, man, So
I will stand. I stood on stage at Stanford University
and they have a ghost light. Every theater is never dark.
They're supposed to keep the ghosts off the stage, so
to speak. Right, not we know that's not that, but
that's what the ghost light is for. And I would
stand in front of the ghost light in front of
the audience of this play that I was working on,
(15:14):
and I could see my shadow cast out into the house,
and this sort of download from Spirit came in and
it said, for the next two hours, I am here
to entertain, to educate, and to edify. Right, I'm gonna
give you something to laugh about. I'm going to give
you something to think about, and hopefully I'm gonna inspire
you to be a better version of yourself and make
(15:35):
the world a better place. So I had this mandate
and this this what is it? What am a mission?
I don't know what it is? But like I was,
like I had a purpose, right, and it wasn't just
to make money. It wasn't for fame or fortune. It's like,
this is a ministry. That's the word.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was, Yes, yes, yes, I had.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
A ministry and I was like, oh, and so even
when things were down, I knew what my why was.
I knew why I was doing what I was doing.
I didn't know exactly how it was going to work
out or how it was going to manifest itself, but
the why was strong enough to carry me through until
things just started to fall into place. And it reminds
(16:16):
me of Read talking about like how he first started it.
He didn't know how it was going to happen, but
he knew why he had to do it. That why
is powerful. How didn't really make that much difference. Everything
will fall the place if you know it. The why why? Wow?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Coming up, Rev and Sterling open up about faith in
fatherhood and the women in their lives.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Now back to my legacy, and I know that so
many people come to you when they're in pain. You know,
you've you've talked to both Martin and I together individually.
Our daughter will call you, know, mattaf you're in Costa
Rica and be like, Rev, I have a question, help
me deal with death. I mean like she, you know,
she she literally calls you on your cell phone when
(17:02):
she has very hard questions. So in all of your
years of guiding others what is the one principle that
you return to again and again when someone is wrestling
with a difficult situation.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
The one principle is unity is oneness. It's if I
could get an individual to just capture that they are
one with the presents and not separated, regardless of what
they have done, regardless of what someone is done to them,
then the healing can happen. And a healing is defined
(17:38):
as a real revelation of that truth. It's not just
the healing of a physical symptom or psychological or mental.
It's a revelation of the truth of our being. And
if I can just bring them into that, then what
I teach is that the presence of God doesn't solve problems,
(18:00):
but in the presence of God, problems dissolve because they
are not real in the mind of God. They're just
perceptions that have become experience. And let me just say this.
When I was attending Morehauth College, a friend of mine
and I named Kenneth, we used to do a practical joke.
We used to take a book of matches and we
(18:21):
would like the match, load it out and then touch
the person with a cold match. They would inevitably develop
a heat blister on their hand, thinking they were being
touched by a hot match. In other words, they were
experiencing something that wasn't real. So when I look at individuals,
I see them experiencing not reality. They're experiencing their thoughts
(18:44):
about reality, and it becomes an experience. And so I
stand in an awareness of that which is beyond their
experience and pull them back to that which is real.
So an individual can something terrible could have happened to them,
or they could have done something terrible to someone, and
(19:05):
ultimately I can pull them back to their real self,
and then the healing will happen in in their in
their life, because in the mind of God, there's only
divine order in harmony and peace. Everything else is an
experience based on our perception. Does that make sense? That's
that's very real to me. And I know I've heard
(19:27):
people teach it to to a degree, but unless you've
had a real encounter with reality, they're just words, you know.
But but but it's very real. So oneness and unity
is the main principle deeply profound struggling.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I want to actually to ask Hugh though to reflect
on Reverend and what I'm gonna ask you, is he
just spoke about this role, that reality real, not real
when you are searching, when you are struggling, when you
are experiencing difficulty. What is one teaching of REVS that
you find is an island of strength for you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
There's a lot. There's a few things that he says
that always sort of reverberate in in my consciousness. I
think first and foremost that there is a divine conspiracy
for my success right that, regardless of what you know
external circumstances may look like like, we live in a
(20:27):
friendly universe and God is already said you want like
that faith of a mustard seed is saying that, like
I see within you who you are already supposed to be,
who you are already made to be. And you may
be in the process, you don't know where you are
in that process of becoming the fullest version of yourself.
(20:47):
But God only relates to you as the fullest version
of yourself right, as a complete whole manifestation a divine
you know, unique emanation of love, beauty and divine intelligence.
There's so many words that just sort of like these
are all the reels work. They just come like, don't
be quick to offense like, that's another one that hits
(21:09):
me up everyone to like where I felt like, oh,
should I be offended? And I was like, no, you
know what, you don't have to be offended like there
is I'm jumping around. Let me go back to the device.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
That was good though, ma'am, I have to have you
come preaching a god.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
You can do it.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You can do a testimony that conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Like right now, I just have a partial rupture of
my achilles tendon and I'm laid up so to speak
for a moment and in a period of forced rest.
But there's also, like in everything given thanks rejoicing always,
there is gratitude in this opportunity, and I get a
chance to ask myself, what God would you have in
(21:47):
store for me? Right now? What's next? I can't wait
to see what's about to come my way? Right so,
instead of focusing on the things that would make me
feel down or sad or what have you. And believe me,
it goes like this to a certain except but through
that reminder, right, I get a chance to sort of
like move up a little bit and not go down,
so to speak. That was a long leader to answer,
(22:07):
and I gave you more than than one. But that
divine conspiracy for my success is something that always comes.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
But you also mentioned something that that actually is a
sermon of MLK, one of my favorite sermons, which is
is the Universe Friendly? He always says like that is
one of the most fundamental questions that any of us
must answer.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Rev.
Speaker 5 (22:29):
We're gonna I'm gonna go to phenomenal women because I
know you so well and I know that there's you're
surrounded by phenomenal women. I never had the opportunity of
meeting your mother, Alice, but I know how important she
was to you. I know you know, of course your daughter.
I know all of the phenomenal ministers. I know the magnificent, incredible,
(22:52):
And we're gonna make sure we leave this in Lee.
My question to you is what gifts do you believe
that women bring that the world old needs always, but
particularly right now.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, you know you.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Look at the world as it appears to be, and
the world is run by men who have normalized insanity, wars, separation, disunity,
men primarily who profit after after a prison industrial system.
They profit after the cell of armaments. You know, women
(23:26):
have a tendency to bring people together in community. They're
not gonna a woman a mother, and everyone does have
to be a mother to have this, to have this frequency.
But she's not gonna love one child more than she
loves another child. She's always created a community. And I
think with the rise of the feminine in women, and
(23:50):
you'll see a different world. You won't see the my
country first, my country right or wrong consciousness. You'll see
you know, as you're as as as Modern's father talked about.
You know, this is a global community. We're all world citizens.
And I think women bring that kind of nurturing compassion
(24:10):
because they don't see just separate parts. They see the whole,
They see family, they see community, and I think that
is extremely important, particularly at this time in human history
where where it could be on the verge of another
war based on a saber rattling and might makes right consciousness,
which is an old masculine frequency.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And so.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Women, you know, I don't want to be stereotypical, but
they have a very strong vibration of caretaking. They caretake,
they want to bring peace, you see. And sometimes the
masculine energy is more led by an individual in the
rough individualism, which can create separation and we see that
(24:59):
on an international scene at this time. So you know,
I always tell people you know, uh, they'll be I say,
you listen to your women. You know she noticed something.
He's catching something intuitively, you know, Nick and Martin look
at his wife.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I thought that it was very fascinating recently that the
Godfather of Ai, you know, made headlines by saying that
Ai can be saved and only can be saved by
some type of way, integrating maternal instinct into it. And
so I think that there's a lot of wisdom in that.
(25:39):
I think it is time for all of us to
fight like mothers and brother like you said, like whether
you have a physical child or not, but you know,
to fight with that sense of unity, with that sense
of for the community, with the sense of compassion, with
that sense of ferociousness but protectiveness, with that sense of creation,
with that sense of looking not only remembering seven generations past,
(26:00):
but looking seven generations forward, with the nurturing.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And I often hear the Rev talking about, you know,
everyone embracing the divine, feminine, feminine within themselves, right male
or female, right, and the idea which used to be
anathema to me from a different paradigm is like, why
would I embrace anything that's femine. I'm a man. You
can be a man and be in touch with your
(26:23):
femine feminine. Your femine is creative, your feminine is powerful,
your feminine is nurturing, right, and sort of trying to
divide yourself. You know, there is unity in accepting and
embracing all of who you are.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But that's the truth. That's the truth. Everyone has both energies, yes, yeah,
and you know we have to have to embrace them,
both of the perfectly whole human sterling.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
You and your wife Ryan are this amazingly powerful Hollywood
couple and you did a podcast together. We don't always agree.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
For here, you said that love when he looks over
here at me.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
So what is the most important thing you've learned about
navigating conflict with your partner.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
That's a good question. I mean that that conflict or
confrontation is a natural part of relationship, right, It's not
something to be avoided. I actually find that when you
avoid confrontation, whatever the sort of underlying issue that you
wanted to address becomes bigger rather than smaller. And so
whatever is uncomfortable about a conversation pales in comparison to
(27:38):
the discomfort that comes from not having the conversation right.
Talk to each other, like even if you upset and
you're frustrated, et cetera. In the midst of that, find
a way to take a breath, come to each other
in love with nobody trying to win or lose, and
we call it. We don't always agree because we don't,
but nobody has to be a winner in it or
(27:59):
a loser. We just have to reach a place of
understanding with each other. I think the biggest thing the
problems for us have always been biggest when we stop talking.
Stay in relationships, stay in communication, Like even when it's uncomfortable,
just stay there, breathe through it. Nothing bad is going
to come from it. Tough things come when you start
(28:19):
to walk away from each other. Just stay here, stay
in the space together. That's been the big one.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
You both met at Stanford and have certainly been together
ever since. What's one small thing that you still do
for each other that keeps the sparkerlive.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
One of the biggest things for my wife and I
truly is that we laugh hard together. She's one of
the funniest people that I know she is funny, she
is hysterical, and we can laugh, and we can. And
part of the podcast was us being able to look
(29:00):
back on different parts of our life that, while we
were in the midst of them, were sort of difficult
to discuss, but we were sort of delighted to find that, like, oh,
we've actually made it to the other side. We can
look back and actually have a sense of humor about
who we were at age twenty two, twenty five, et cetera,
et cetera. Like that was an absolute joy to discover.
So our ability to laugh with each other and to
(29:22):
make each other laugh has been a saving grace, Like
it's been wonderful.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might. We're
sharing real stories, heart one wisdom and unforgettable lessons that
stay with you long after the screen goals. Start tap
that button and stay connected to conversations that truly count.
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
I want to ask both of you actually about an
incredibly important part of who you are and all of
us in fact. So we're all parents. I got three boys.
They keep me, keep me busy, and so when I
like five children, Oh my god, they're like human tornadoes,
like God blessom. I love them. I love them, but
you know, so I'm going to ask each of you.
I'm actually gonna start with Rev. Reverend back with you're
(30:09):
not only a father, you're a grandfather. So I'm curious,
what advice did you give your own children on raising children?
And did they listen to you?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Did they actually listen the success of a when you're
a parent, when the child has they have a good
heart that on the planet, they're not going to bring
mess on the planet. They're going to be open hearted.
They're going to be compassionate, be kind and find their
(30:40):
particular gifted area of which they're going to share in
the planet. So I look back and I look at
them now they're both adults. They are within their own
groups because they're like they're like how many they're like
nine ten years apart. They are like the spiritual leaders
of their own peers.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And and they got at osmosis. I just noticed that,
you know them were upfront with it now, but it
just kind of an osmosis. They're the person that brings
people back. Oh, we should sit down and we should
vision about this, or we should have this idea about this,
you know, and and so maybe they didn't listen at first,
(31:23):
but it got in there anyway. And so now it
does my heart good when I actually I see the matagape.
They're a part of the community and in very powerful ways.
And I didn't force them to do that. And maybe
as a child I forced them to come to church,
you know, but now they're adults, that's their own choice.
(31:44):
They love being there, they love being in the energy,
so they're they're there. I can really say that they
are really good people. Their trustworthy, they're honest, they have integrity.
Those are very great qualities. And my oldest son, he
has three boys, who okay, so I have three grand
(32:05):
he has three boys. I have three grandchildren and the
oldest grandchildren has two children.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
You great grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, I'm out in myself.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
So sterling. By the way, the last time that Rev
and I were at at a basketball game together, I
kept asking him, so I'm gonna say this, because he
wouldn't give an answer. I was like, Rev, how old are you, sir?
Question totally impolite, I understand, I totally applayed, and he
never gave me an answer.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
My interest in age age isn't interested in me. Age
is just a number of minds unlisted. So only because
people will look at you a certain way.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Sure you know what I mean, don't.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I don't need to. I don't need to transcend how
other people think about me. I'm just time this ageless
in eternals how I vibe in myself?
Speaker 4 (32:50):
So sterling, and I love your response because I know
you have two boys. Yeah, what has being a father
taught you about yourself?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It is? It is the role that I've always looked
for too. Since I was a kid, I was being
a dad. I think I have an older brother and
an older sister, so I was a young uncle. I
got six nieces and nephews, and I would be fourteen
like taking kids to church and everything, and I, you know,
have like strollers and blankets and bottles and stuff. I
(33:20):
as one of those rare dudes who just loves children,
and I still do now with my youngest I helped
coach his basketball team and his flag football team. My
oldest son is playing soccer, but I used to help
out there as well. What I learned about myself, I
think a lot of it has to do with the
fact that my pops passed away when I was fairly young.
(33:42):
I was ten years old, and I thought that he
did a great job. He because in an era of
men where loving unabashedly wasn't necessarily in fashion, he didn't
care like my dad would kiss me on the lips,
so whatnot. I remember one time, I was like eight
(34:03):
and a half or something, and you go, all right, boy,
get your dad a kiss. And I'd be like, I
go for the cheek, and you were you too old
to get your dad to kiss. I'm like, oh, right, man,
let's keep it moving, you know what I'm saying. But
he he just loved me in such a beautiful way.
And I tell people that, even though he's been gone
(34:25):
for almost forty years now, like the reservoir of love
that I have in my soul, I carry with me
and I'm able to pour from that cup into these
beautiful boys that I have as well. Right, so, I think,
what you learned, and this is because I have too.
I did have this one thought. I don't know if
anybody ever had this thought, but the second one, and
or of the third probably was just the seconde. I
(34:47):
love this one as much as I love the first one. Right,
they have this just for a second, and then they
showed up like that's a dumb thing. This you never
run out of it. Like the more you have it,
the more you have to give, and the more it
just keeps filling up, right, and so like in terms
of that lost scarcity that we talk about, rev hoarding
(35:10):
doesn't give you more of something, It keeps you cut
off from the flow that is meant to sort of
just circulate within your life. And that could be money
that could be loved, that could be anything like let
it go, let it out, share it as much as possible,
and you find yourself inundated with more than you had
to that you could have ever imagined.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
It's beautiful because I'm sitting here literally in a circle
of all fathers. So it's really beautiful to witness the
love of fathers. And actually, Craig, it kind of reminded
me his story about his father kissing him reminded me
about the story that you shared. Craig and his brother
Mark recently their father recently transitioned and we went to
(35:50):
his memorial service and you shared that story. Can you
please like share the story about the kiss every mother.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Every night, every night he would always kiss me on
my forehead before you know, I went to sleep, and
eventually Sterling, kind of like yourself.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I came up an age where I was like, Dad.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
You know, you know, and he said, okay, Well he
bent down his forehead and he let me kiss him
on his forehead instead. When I became too tall, and
every night before i'd go to sleep, he would just
you know. I now do that with my kids. Every
night before they go to bed, I say I love you,
I love you, I love you some more, and may
(36:29):
God always protect you no matter what. Every night with
my boys.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Yeah, and you still kissed your father off his forehead
until he until just.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
The day he passed, In fact, the hospitals just with
the night transitioned. That was my final kiss.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Yeah, my transitioning.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
When my boys go to bed, the youngest one has
no problem kissing me. He'd give me a kiss. He'll
kiss me easily until the day I transition over to
the other side of the veil. The eldest still will
try to pull away. But if you get them right
at bedtime, put up any resistance and you step up
to his bunk and you just lean over, he'll be like.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
So we've been talking about the best, most tender moments
of families, but we all seen in recent times that
politics has really torn some family and friends apart in
recent years. And Rev, I know that you've said that
a lack of forgiveness is a high form of self abuse.
What did you mean by that? And how do we
(37:37):
all find the courage to forgive when it feels impossible.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
To answer that question? We have to understand what forgiveness is,
and forgiveness is not condoning bad behavior from another person.
Forgiveness is releasing the toxicity that flows through our own
spiritual veins. Hate, resentment, animosity. Those create toxic chemicals in
(38:03):
the body temple which debilitate us physically and psychologically. So
forgiveness frees us from a prison that we have created.
So it's not about condoning somebody else and saying, you know,
I'm just going to look the other way based on
what you've done it. I'm not going to allow what
you have done or said to take me down. So
(38:26):
a lack of forgiveness is a high form of self
abuse because we're abusing ourselves. And so when you understand that,
it's not about courage, it's about self love again, and
then you're able to have a level of clarity as
(38:46):
to what right action is in that particular situation. You
can't have clarity if your mind is clouded with eight
or resentment or animosity. But as that and I'm not
saying this is an easy thing, because people have done
heineous things, you know, but it's definitely a part of
the process. I mean, Martin's father was a strong affgating
(39:09):
practitioner of this, making sure that we turn enemies into friends.
But that doesn't happen without forgiveness. It's an impossibility. And
we just so we have to have more and more
moral leadership that rises to that level. I mean recently,
we just saw, you know, at that memorl service, one
(39:32):
person forgiving their enemies and the one that's supposed to
unify us saying I'm going to hate my entities and
take them down.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
It's it's like there was the shining example of a
maturity and immaturity screaming at us right there on national television.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
So, so forgiveness is powerful, and when one can grow
into the consciousness of forgiveness, one can be free, an
escape from the limited perceptions of life. It's necessary to grow.
And you know, every every spiritual path with heart has
some level of forgiveness in it, some level of making amends,
(40:14):
some levels of introspection and for giving one's self for
the misdeeds or missteps or things that should have been
said or that were said that hurts somebody. Every path
has a way of going in and trying to clear
that up because it's all energy. It's all energy, you see.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Well, speaking of conditioning your mind, rev you even your
podcast is take back your mind, so you have your constantly.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
For a podcast. I'm going to put that out there.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Actually, that's a phenomenal name.
Speaker 5 (40:46):
So your words and teachings have inspired and healed millions
around the world. And you know, I know that you
must hear countless stories about the impact that you've had.
Is there one story in particular or that you carry
with you, you know, doctor King, I've heard your mother
say that he would preach himself out of depression sometimes
(41:08):
when he you know, so we all, you know, have
moments of heaviness. Is there one story that you carry
with you to give you encouragement when you need that
encouragement for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I'm getting a lot for some reason. I'm in a
season of getting a lot of feedback from people all
around the world everywhere I go with interesting stories of
transformation or healings and things of that particular nature. And
that might just be because of my receptivity.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I don't know. They may have been going on all.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The time, but just so many stories you got me
through COVID, this this type of thing. There's one story
of a woman who was passing over from a brain
tumor and she's in her house. She was in the
hospital and her family. She liked the gape, and her
family put a cassette player or CD player in her
(41:59):
room and it started playing my sermons. She got up
and left the hospital. That brain tumor disappeared. I'm not
saying I did that, but her receptivity and her faith
and utilizing that that vibration of the word helped her.
So there's a lot of stories that are coming to
(42:20):
me now that I guess just to give me a
level of you're doing okay, keep going, you know, within
my own you know, within my own space, because you know,
when in a community is.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Not an easy thing.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
People see, people see a Sunday talk, but they have
no idea, what's going on in a community and staffing
and finances and this and that and the other. You
know that has to go on, and so it was
it may be just an impetus for my own soul,
you know, to hear these stories.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
People need inspiration. People are craving inspiration, and they crave
it from the pulpit, they crave it from the screens.
And my wife and I we would sit together and
actually watch This is Us your of course Emmy Award winning.
I got to point that out role in you know,
as you mentioned Randall Pearson on the show, what is
(43:14):
the most meaningful conversation that anyone's walked up to? And
they said how that role resonated with them and how
it impacted them.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Ooh, there's a lot. There's a lot Craig like people,
people roll up on your boy and it's like, can
I have a hug? Like That's like, that's one thing.
I had a lot of shows ilicit you know, Paradise
doesn't elicit hugs, but This is Us does. But there
there was a moment. There's a few, but one that
really touched my soul. I was in the airport and
(43:44):
there's a storyline on this is us where our eldest
biological daughter comes out as she may be Bye or gay,
et cetera. And this woman comes up to us, a
black woman, and she sees me and she said, I
did not have the same love of grace that you
and Beth had when my daughter came out to me,
but I know that I can do better. And she
(44:07):
just walked and she said thank you, and she kept
on going, and I was like, you know, you forget.
They're like, I'm doing a little show and I think
it's nice and it has some residence whatnot. But then
you see like real sort of tangible things like that,
and you're like, thank you God for allowing me to
be of service and that, Oh my god. You know,
I tell you a quick story. My daughter and her mother.
(44:31):
Her mother was sick and passing over.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
We did we didn't really know how fast she was
going to pass over. But the storyline in there about
the mother and daughter healing. Yeah, they watched that together
and it opened up a conversation that they never had
as adults about the mother and my childrens, her background,
her past, her mother, and how she became who she became.
(44:57):
It just opened up this beautiful conversation. They bonded so
completely before she passed over. They watched that together and
it just opened them up, changed both their lives.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
It was It was one of those things where people
would tell us, like, we rarely watch shows every week,
and sometimes I watch them by myself, but like me
and my family sit down and we watch your show.
I would hear that many many times, and I think,
especially as divisive as things are seemingly right now, it
was nice to add a little bit of unity to
(45:28):
the world, to the country. Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
What a beautiful story. The extraordinary Reverend Michael beckwith the
equally extraordinary Sterling K. Brown. Gentlemen, thank you for guiding
us in a conversation of spirit, soul and wisdom, turning
points forgiveness, the divine conspiracy of success, lessons of faith,
power of storytelling. Most importantly, even the darkest hour's life
(45:55):
can be chosen and love can be lived. Gentlemen, Thank
you for living your legacies.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Thank you for having us. Man. This has been a
thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Thank you for thank you for letting me bring an
extraordinary plus one.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I've never been a plus one before. You are the one.
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
(46:45):
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
executive producer Susanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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