June 23, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, Cari Champion gets real about the hot-button topic of transgender athletes in sports. From the emotional stories of parents to the big questions around fairness and inclusion, Cari breaks down the conversation with honesty and heart. She talks about how little research is actually out there, the real-life impact on families, and why we need more compassion and open-mindedness in this debate. If you’re curious about where sports, identity, and society intersect—this episode’s for you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
in women's basketball right now is what we've been trying
to get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums
where athletes break barriers and set records. Katlin Clark broke
(00:23):
the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey everybody, I hope you
(00:54):
all had a good week. Thank you for listening to
another edition of Naked Sports with yours truly. I on
today's podcast will attempt to do something that I think
is important, And I also wanted to talk about this
particular topic because it's coming out over and over again,
and if I'm gonna be honest with you and candid
(01:16):
with you, I don't think there's enough research. I just
don't think there's enough information about transgender athletes.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
DA DA DA.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
That is the topic I am choosing to address. It
is Pride Month, so it is timely. However, and I
say this to you knowing that you all understand me,
at least if you listen to the podcast. You know
that I'm pretty open about talking about most things, but
I don't like to talk about things I'm not really
educated on it. And so I say that to say,
(01:50):
I've noticed there's been a lot of conversation about transgender athletes,
and apparently there is this notion and or philosophy that
there are of transgender athletes trying to compete in girls sports,
especially at the high school level and below. And if
I threw out some numbers, you'd say, well, okay, that
(02:12):
doesn't seem like there's some sort of epidemic where transgender
athletes are trying to participate in girls sports. Nationwide, on
the collegiate level, there are approximately half a million student
athletes five hundred thousand, and of those student athletes, I
recently read that about a handful less than a dozen
or transgender. That means I don't even know what those
(02:35):
percentages are, but it doesn't seem as if there's some
sort of epidemic, as some people on some side of
the aisle would lead you to believe. Recently, I was
on a CNN panel, and not just on the CNN panel,
I'm often asked about this by different people. I just
wish two things. I wish it wasn't such a controversial topic. One.
(02:55):
Two I wish there wasn't so much misinformation. Three I
wish that people did not weaponize sports so that they
can use sports as a way to marginalize other people
that they are not comfortable with. To use sports as
a weapon, when sports in itself should be inclusive, it's
(03:18):
pretty sad. Sports in itself should give you self esteem.
It should teach you camaraderie. It should teach you how
to compete, It should teach you how to problem solve,
be a solution oriented person. And so now, especially under
the current climate that we are in in this country,
(03:39):
no one is really safe, you know, And now that
everyone is asking me about transgender athletes, I thought it'd
be smart for me to one find someone who could
talk about it better than me, or two just provide
you all with some context. So as I was saying, recently,
I was on a CNN panel and I was asked
about story out of Northern California, clovid to be exact,
(04:00):
and you may have heard of it, and it goes
as follows. These are the particulars a transgender athlete was
set to participate in a CIF Track and Field championship, which,
as many could imagine, divided parents and students alike. The
student athlete in question was in the eleventh grade. Is
in the eleventh grade, and when this student athlete made
(04:23):
it to the championships in Northern California, the story gained
national attention, and parents and students and leaders and anyone
who wanted to weigh in weighed in on this particular
story about whether or not this transgender athlete should be
allowed to compete in the women's category in the girls
(04:45):
category for the CIF Track and Field Championships. Abe Hernandez
is a transgender student ultimately allowed to compete, but it
was done so with a compromise so her Hernandez or
to medal. This was before the championship. Hernandez would get
a spot on the podium. It would be an extra
(05:07):
spot so that it wouldn't take away from any of
the biological female athletes who were competing. Hernandez did compete
and meddled in two different events, taking home gold. Hernandez
shared that medal with two other girls who were also
in competition with Hernandez. And listen to what some folks
(05:31):
had to say about Hernandez being allowed to compete and
what they thought it meant for other female athletes.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm gonna listen.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I don't have to.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I have a right to speak truth. Boy, girls are girls.
There's probably not be long competing against those girls. Period.
What a coward of a woman you are allowing that?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Telling are women telling our woman telling girls to go
and compete against a boy?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
How embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
How you're a mother, You're a mother, Stand up like
a mother.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I am a mother.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I'm protecting girls.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You want a boy?
Speaker 5 (06:05):
How many people support the boy?
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Now?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Tell me to shut up.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I was respectful to you.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Your mental illness is on your son.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So the reason I decided to talk about transgender athletes
is simply because I've noticed that this issue, in particular,
as I said before, is being weaponized for political gain
or simply as a way to say I don't like you,
and I don't want you involved in society. It's a
(06:45):
way to exclude a class of people. And if I'm
honest with you, and this is why I say this
is the hard part for me, and I'll say the
quiet part out loud. My hope is that I could
always have an honest converse, especially with those who listen
to the podcast. But I do know I can say
this with full confidence. There's a lot about this topic
(07:09):
that many of us do not know. It's not well researched,
it's not talked about in a way that makes sense
from both sides, all sides. And I also believe there
used to be some more science. This is my take,
but this is a lot that I just don't understand
on face value. If I am a parent and I
have two young girls competing in a high school competition,
(07:30):
I probably would lean towards the side of saying nope,
I'm just not comfortable with a transgender athlete competing with
my girls, because I don't know if it's a fair fight.
Does that transgender athlete happen to edge, would it be
allowed any other circumstance? Does that take away from something
(07:50):
that my daughter deserves. These are all the questions that
I would have if I was a parent. And I
say this to you because I've talked to many parents,
and one of my friends, who has two daughters playing volleyball,
said to me, if I didn't have kids, I probably
would say let her Nandez compete. But because I have
two girls who compete at the middle school and high
(08:13):
school level, I don't know if I think it's fair.
Now here's the deal. That may sound cool, it may
sound as if she wants to exclude transgender athletes, but
I do know when talking to her, she said she
just didn't have enough information, but just on just her
gut feeling brought off the rip. That was her thought. However,
(08:36):
and I want to make sure we are very clear.
Just because someone says they don't want their daughter to
compete with transgender athletes does not mean that that particular
parent wants to be mean and or cruel to transgender athletes.
And that was what was happening with Hernandez. When this
(08:57):
story first broke, there were protests. They were grown adults
calling this this young kid all sorts of names, which
is so disgusting. And there's also this lack of humanity,
almost as if ab Hernandez was not a human being,
and that anything could be said or done to this teenager.
(09:19):
And that's where I get upset. Two things can be true.
I could agree with my friend who has two little
girls playing high school sports in middle school sports, but
I also can agree with the fact that people still
need to be treated like human beings. I understand that
(09:40):
people were upset, parents, politicians, you name it. They were
upset because of what they thought was being taken away.
But yet, and still, that doesn't mean you have to
treat that teenager horribly. We're going to take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. So I was
(10:09):
moved by this conversation with my girlfriend, and I started
calling around doing some research. I started asking other people
what they thought. I started to listen to a lot
of stories about Olympians who were transgenders, and Olympians on
the collegiate level who were transgenders. The pros and the cons.
What does it mean, what does it take? All of
(10:30):
the things that I just really didn't know. And I
started to dig deep, and what I realized is that
and I don't know if this makes a difference for anyone,
but at the Olympic level and also at the collegiate level,
there is significant testing. Before transgender athlete is allowed to
compete in a sport, there is hormone testing, There has
(10:52):
to be clearance from a doctor, there has to be
proof that hormone therapy is being provided. There are all
of these checks and balances on the collegiate and on
the Olympian level. So I call my girlfriend and I
talked to her about this, and I want to share
this with you all because it really blew my mind
(11:14):
and we were having a very honest conversation. So I'm
going to read this text, and this is from someone
I respect who is in sports, and someone who had
a very different perspective but also understood my perspective. My
friend writes, here's the thing. Some of these people are
claiming it about fairness, when in truth they just don't
(11:35):
want them to exist in any capacity and feel no peace.
Bathroom sports. It will never be enough. That's why some
states are banning gender affirming care altogether. Because it wasn't
ever about sports. They keep going to the point where
they say it's about fairness and sports, and this, that
and the third. But it's truly not about sports, because
(11:59):
sports is such low hanging fruit. If you can get
people to ban them from sports, it won't be hard
to get people to support them being banned elsewhere. And
when my friends sent me that text, that's when the
discrimination really popped in my head, and I thought, is
it about sports or is it about excluding a class
(12:22):
of people that you don't believe deserve the same civil
rights that you have. I'm asking myself that question. I
am asking others who are opposed to transgender athletes competing,
I am asking you that question. I got even more
detailed with her, and I said, help me understand this.
(12:45):
Are you saying on the high school level that there
is no testing? Not really, because they don't have the resources,
that was the response. Not really because high schools don't
have the resources. One and two too, there aren't that
many transgender athletes to dedicate money to to decide if,
(13:06):
in fact, the hormone replacement therapy is working, whether or
not they are meeting certain rules like, they just don't
have the funds to do the science that is needed.
And so as a result, many people administrators on the
high school level and the middle school level want to
have a compromise, and that's what they tried to do
(13:28):
in Clovis, California. That was a compromise that they were
trying to do. They came up with and they thought
that this would please people on both sides of the aisles.
They would please naysayers and those who were forward, But no,
people were still very upset. So then my good girlfriend
Jamel Hill just so happens to do a podcast this
(13:52):
week with a transgender athlete, the very first transgender athlete
in the WNBA at least to my knowledge. Lisha cleared
it and I listened to this podcast and I was
blown away by what I did not know. I'm going
to share a few moments with you, and I encourage
(14:13):
you really to listen and be be curious about what
Lesha's talking about. It really is interesting.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I mean, some of the struggles are just the toll
of being the first. Like I think, there's so much.
I have a deep gratitude and appreciation for people in
history who've been the first, especially black folks, and so
I know I'm in that line of folks who have
had to blaze a trail.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
But what comes with that is like an emotional toll.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
It's like it's lonely and it's isolating at times to
be the person. Like the analogy for me is like
you're just hacking. There's no trails, so you're just in
the forest hacking away, like trying to find So you're
gonna get scratched and bruised and you're gonna get a
little bloody. You're going to be lonely at times because
you're figuring it out. So that was tough for me.
(15:08):
I mean, in the bubble season is when I really
decided I didn't want breasts anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So I was like, all right, these gotta go.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
But then once you make that choice for me, then
I'm I'm really embodying the fact that I don't want
these anymore. So now I have to live with this
body until I can get to a place right where
I'm getting a friend in my gender. So that was
that was really difficult for me. And that's all happening
in the bubble season. We're in Florida, find for our lives,
as you know.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I think those are some of the big ones.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It could be isolating at times, like I don't realize
like leadership or getting to the top or being the
one of something like.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I want there to be many of us.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I want there to be so many athletes and people
that it's like, great, I'm one of ten, fifteen, twenty.
I had to talk to some other athletes in other sports.
That was helpful for me to kind of reach out
to them.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
You were you also made a very intentional decision to
go public when you had your top surgery and to
show people like what that looked like. I mean, for you,
what was the significance of not you just having the surgery,
but sort of telling the world that, hey, I have
made this decision.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It was not wanting to be not necessarily in the closets.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I think people who make that choice, I wouldn't say
it's it's it's a similar to being in the closet.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But for me, it was really just wanting to be.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Like loud and proud about who I was and know that, like,
this isn't something I'm afraid or ashamed of. I didn't
know my nipples were gonna end up on USA today.
I'm glad I covered them. I put the stars over them,
like I didn't expect it to blow up the way
it did.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So that kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Did that decision to share about my top surgery, like
it thrust me into a different stratosphere of I don't know,
celebrity I would say deity in some ways in the
queer community. That was something I wasn't prepared for or
like a consequence of that was like, oh whoa Like
this is like my story became other people's story to
(17:14):
like run with. And up until that point, I feel
like I'd shared stuff and our women's basketball world was you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Know, small and intimate.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
It's clearly blowing up in a big way at this
moment in time. But that for me was like oh,
and then I'm seeing other people talk about me online
and talk about you know, fighting for what pronouns I use,
and I'm like, thank you, but I also I use
all of them. You're not even like this is but
it's right. Everyone has a connection to that story because
I represent I became a symbol for people. So that
(17:42):
was a really fascinating part of it that has had
me ever since.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Then kind of juggling like what I want to.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Share about my life publicly and privately, Like what parts
of me do only belong to me? And I don't
regret sharing that top surgery at all, but it's had
me wrestling with the like okay, yeah, like once you
put it out there, it's the world, like they get
to run with it, and it's so many fans have
really appreciated it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So I love that part about it.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
I have another follow up for you about that, but
before and you can call me a jackass for saying this,
but realize this is the nerdy grammar person in me
that they them.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It just radically doesn't always look right, and it just.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Drives me crazy when I see it because being you,
because like I know how it's supposed to be used.
You know, obviously I pronouns, but it's like the they
them has me constantly in a grammatical circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, it's just like sometimes people.
Speaker 7 (18:41):
Like, what it's me, I'm multiple people because you're you're
technically you're you're non binary and you're in you're, so yes,
you are multiple, but I'm like, grammatically, yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
It presents some challenges in sentences, yes, but you know,
as you just mentioned, a moment ago is like carrying
that way to being the first. I remember something Kamala
Harris said is that you know when you break a ceiling.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
It implies breaking is involved, right.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
So that means that there's yeah, she ate that she
dropped the barrow netw is she yea, there's going to
be some scaring. But nevertheless, as you say, your story
represented so many people who don't have the same voice and.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Platform as you.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
So how do how do you.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Handle mentally handle the heaviness of that.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I mean, therapy has been one and that's been great
talking through it. I have a good amount of trans friends,
to particular, two or three in particular that have gone
through the experiences and have been people who honestly been
a light for me. One of my best friends, Ran Warden,
has like in the lighted a path like is I
(19:52):
didn't know before them that like even what non binary
really meant, because so much of ours is still very
like all right, you're either a signed mail at birth.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And you want to be a woman.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Okay, you're transitioning all the way. There's like this like
final destination that you want to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
I've got people in my life fortunately that have like
showed me the way.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Like my best friend had talked to her and I was.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Like, oh cool, Like at the time, I wasn't thinking
about I was like, oh, sure, okay, and then like
they were using different pronouns. I was like, all right,
I was fumbling. I'm messing him up and be like trying
them on and be like, oh, it's weird to say
he and she if they. But that representation just sunk
something in for me to have that space. So then
when I was ready to kind of go through it
and ask these questions so my people, my community therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Honestly, choosing what to share and what not.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
To share about my life anymore has been helpful because
I used to live in the world where I could
I can DM everybody back and I can you know,
when you're small enough, you can have those interactions. But
the Internet has also turned to a wild, wild, wild place,
so I've had to really protect my mental health and
aspect too.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
As you know, right now, we're the time where it's
a very hostile environment for the trans community. I mean
it's just twenty twenty five alone, there have been one
hundred and nine anti trans bills that have been passed
so far in a variety of states and overall, I
mean just in the last few years, there's been a
total of nine hundred and fourteen that have been on
(21:23):
the table, which is a staggering number given what this
climate feels like now, and especially with a lot of
directives coming from the White House, particularly about stopping the
participation of trans.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Girls in sports. What does this climate feel like for you?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But it feels terrible. It feels it's like you're, you know,
living your day to day life.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Everything is supposed to be normal right now, but we
all know we're kind of living under like Laate stage
capitalism and like fascism is We're all like, are we really.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
In a Handmaid's Tale?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
But any minute now, but we should be running, but
do we have our passports? And like, you know, being
on a podcast, working my job every day, but then
also having that kind of invisible cloud of that weight
that just like sits on you and you don't know
why you're anxious sometimes and you kind of have to
remind yourself, stayed on gaslight your itself, like, oh, there's
a lot of shit going on in the world, Like
people don't I had a break down, like probably every
(22:24):
once in a while.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Same way about like being black in America, It's like.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
You have to have some level of disassociation to like
be able to get in your car every time and
drive to know like you could be murdered driving down
the street by the police.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
So in that same way, I feel like I have
to I'm fully like embodied as a trans person, and
I love that, but at times I have to like
box it out and not not believe that, like this
is the state of the world we're living in.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And so I had just break down another day. It
was just like the country I.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Live in in the current administration, and a lot of
people like they just don't want me to exist. They
just don't literally don't want people like me to exist.
And to feel that so misseraily like as a black
person and as a transperson, it is something familiar.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And also something that is weighty. It's like we just stay.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
With black people, like I just want to live, Like
can y'all just stop lynching us, beating.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Us, pulling us over, like just let us exist.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
And I feel that deeply as a transperson is like
we're literally just trying to exist and we're actually like
a gift to the world, Like we are a gift
in so many ways that we help people see that
you don't have to subscribe to all of these oppressive
gender notions that like you, actually we all have a
gender expression. We all have the ability to put on
whatever clothes we want every day, to be fluid, to
(23:46):
understand we all embody masculinity and femininity. But like we
have the audacity to show up in a world right
now that doesn't want us here, that wants to erase us,
and to still be like, no, I'm fucking here. So
at the end of the day, Like that's part of
what also gets me through the day, is like I'm
not going to be silent and shut up. Even I'm
finding my balance, I'm still going to be like, now
(24:08):
you don't see me, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
So that was JAML Hill talking to Alicia Clardon on politics.
Thank you so much, your friend for allowing me to
use that podcast. I think if you are like I am,
which I'm very curious about what I don't know so
that I can have an informed response. I walked away
from that conversation not necessarily changing my opinion, but understanding
(24:32):
that I don't know enough to have a real valid opinion.
And as I started this podcast, I said, I'm often
on CNN, and they asked me about it as if
it's definitive, and I can tell you my personal thoughts
and what I think personally, But the truth of the
matter is is that I don't know enough to give
a fully educated opinion, and I don't think many people do.
(24:55):
I think, to my other friend's point, who's been covering
this story, for a majority of people, this is a
way to say we don't mind them, we don't like them,
they don't belong here. It's another way to exclude a
class of people that you believe don't deserve the same
(25:22):
basic humanitarian rights as the rest of the world. And
if you have a problem with transgender athletes, I'll ask
you this question. Do you have a problem with LGBTQIA people.
Do you have a problem with someone who doesn't think
(25:44):
or act like you? Do you have a problem with
someone you disagree with how they live their lives? And
that is a tough question, right No one wants to
answer that truthfully, No one wants to say that quiet
part out loud. No one. And I'm hesitating to really
(26:10):
find the words because in our climate, as mentioned, this
is a serious issue. This is becoming a topic that
doesn't really need to be a topic. But because it
grabs people's attentions, it makes people feel as if there
(26:34):
is something being taken from them and or their children.
It makes other people feel like the world is going
to hell in a handbasket what is going on? And
people are generally up in arms for what they believe
is a change in our society that they don't want
to see. Listen, believe how you believe, think what you
(26:59):
want to think, have your own opinion. You are entitled
to that. I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm just
doing my job and I'm just giving you this information.
I hope in the conversation that you heard with a issue,
you felt like she was able to give you an
example of what she has to deal with on the
other side of this. And for me, I walked away thinking,
(27:24):
at the end of the day, everybody deserves dignity and respect.
At the end of the day, I hate when people
mistreat me, whether it be because they think I'm not
a good person, or whether it be because they don't
like the fact that I am a black woman or
a woman in general. I do not want to be
mistreated by something I cannot help. And there lies the rub.
(27:53):
You would let me throw a few questions out, because
I don't know as a teenager to go to your
parents and say I am not comfortable in my body.
I don't believe I was meant to be a boy,
or I don't believe I was meant to be a girl.
(28:16):
And then you take this radical, bold choice to say
I want to be identified as something different, knowing that
you will be vilified, bullied, and or perhaps lose your life,
depending on whatever the circumstances are and where you are
(28:37):
in this world. That is a life threatening decision that
you are making. And heaven forbid, someone so young, whose
brain isn't even fully developed, they have to make that
decision because they don't feel right. From my understanding the
research that I've read, if someone is deciding to do this,
it's because it's not for fun. It's not it's not
(29:00):
because it is trendy. It is because what they truly feel.
Knowing there are so many repercussions that come from that
making that choice, making a choice to say that I
want to be transgender, you would have to think if
you have any compassion, whether you agree or disagree with
(29:22):
that decision, you wouldn't vilify a child. Fine, You could
be mad at their parents, that's okay, fine. You could
be mad at the school system that said Abe Hernandez
can compete. But I really really walked away thinking where
is the humanity for people who are trying to find
(29:45):
a place in society to exist? And I'm talking to myself,
I'm talking to you, I'm talking to everybody. And while
I haven't fully formed an opinion, I know what I believe,
I know what I have said said. I know that
I do agree with my girlfriend who has two kids,
and she says that they are playing at a very
(30:07):
high level, and she knows how good they are and
what they sacrifice and what they do as competitors. One
is in high school, the other is in middle school,
and they are extremely talented athletes, and she knows how
it feels when they lose a game against other girls
who are better than them, and she understands the competition
and how the positions and the slots are so far
(30:31):
few between as you get hire and hire and hire.
She's talking about just competing at a high level, and
in her mind, a transgender athlete competing against her daughter.
If that were the case and her daughter lost, she
would think it was an unfair fight, and people genuinely
can keep it about sports. They really can. But I don't.
(30:54):
I don't know. I don't think most people are like
something taboo to talk about. I know for a fact,
if I have this conversation, people get uncomfortable. You might
be listening to this right now getting uncomfortable. I know
other colleagues of mine don't like to talk about it
because they don't want to be canceled because they may
say something wrong on either side. Even while recording this
(31:16):
podcast with my producer Drayne, I said, oh my god,
I said it wrong.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Go back, do that.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I didn't say that right, Do it again. We're going
to take a quick break because we have to pay
some bills. We'll be right back in just a few moments,
but I want to leave you all with this. I
(31:44):
listened to ab Hernandez talk about what it meant to compete,
talk about the upcoming competition, and then also talk about
the response that ab Hernandez received from the community. Good
in that take a listen.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
She spoke to Aby Hernandez before today's event, and she
tells me that she is giving it all she can
because her focus right now is the sport, and she's
ignoring all the criticism that is surrounding her because again,
she wants to make sure that she's giving it her
very best out on the field. Also, we spoke to
her mother, Nadea, who tells me she is Aby's biggest
(32:24):
supporter throughout this entire journey, which involves sacrifice, training, celebration,
and also hate. She says, it's hate from all those
people that oppose a trans athlete from participating in a
girl's competition.
Speaker 9 (32:38):
It's nervous right now, you know, State finals back here again,
just like trying.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Not to get in my head and just relax. But
it's a little harder.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
This year.
Speaker 10 (32:49):
Aby Hernandez opening up for the first time about her
ongoing participation as a trans athlete in a high school girls'
sports competition. It's generated strong criticism, including from President Trump,
who threatened to cut state funding if they quote illegally
allow men to play in women's sports. This was the
girl's triple jump varsity competition on Friday, held at Buchanan
(33:11):
High School in Clovis, where Hernandez took the top spot.
A few hours earlier, the high school teenager competed in
the girl's high jump and long jump Varsity, where she
also ranked first place and qualified her to Saturday's events.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
When you see how happy this kid is being herself,
you know, the first time I saw her come out
dressed as a girl, that she didn't have to hide
it from me.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I saw it in.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Her face, so I was like, this is it, this
is what she wants. I'm going to support it.
Speaker 9 (33:41):
Behind AB's every move is her mother, Naeida, who has
been watching from the crowd and protecting her sixteen year
old daughter from nearby protesters, both on the ground and
in the sky.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
I'm not losing my child because of my stubbornness and
for me being close minded, like I rather a race.
Are times together, even if it's been this difficult, then
going to a cemetery and crying because I couldn't accept something.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So in conclusion, having this uncomfortable conversation, I don't have
any answers, and I hate. I hate that that's the
first thing. But what I also hate is that people
feel like they need to have an answer about a
very very complicated topic for some people. For some people
(34:31):
it's black and white. No means no, yes means yes.
For others it's complicated. It's complicated because for me anyway,
I know, I'm speaking from a sports perspective. I'm not
speaking from a perspective of I don't want that person
to be included in activities or that child to be
(34:51):
included in activities. I'm speaking from a sports perspective thinking.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Now?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Remember as an Olympian, and there are rules, there are tests,
their guidelines, the science is there to at least attempt
to prevent the unfair equation in terms of competition. They
do it again again on the collegiate level, at least
to make an attempt to say the science has been done.
This athlete can compete. They do not have a physical advantage.
(35:22):
But I also believe, much like everything in this society,
ten years from now, someone will say the science was wrong.
Twenty years from now, someone will say the science was wrong,
there was an advantage or there was never even an
issue with advantage of giving them a fair fight or not.
It's like, you know, they're telling us, you know, years later,
we are not supposed to, you know, eat gluten, And
(35:42):
I'm like, gluten, Yeah, gluten.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Everybody was in gluten. Do you remember a time when
gluten free was even a thing. No, I'm otied to
remember gluten free was not even a thing. The science
now it says gluten is an issue. Your body now
says gluten issue. And I'm making light of an issue.
But I am talking about well that we live in
where we are constantly learning, and we are constantly trying
(36:04):
to get better, and we are constantly doing research, and
we're learning about what is out there in society. And
that's where I'll hang my hat in terms of what
I do and don't know. But I don't have a
straight answer for you. I really don't. And I would
encourage anyone, anyone if you believe firmly in what you believe.
(36:25):
If you don't think transferred definite should be competing, great,
that's what you believe, leave it there. If you think
they should compete, great, leave it there. But there is
a group of people who truly live like I live,
and think I don't know enough. I know, I feel,
but I definitely don't know enough. So I leave you
(36:48):
with this. I saw this on Mel Robbins the other day.
You guys like Mel Robins. I'm name dropping a lot
of other podcasts, but I do like listening to her,
and she says the most simple things, right, the most
simple and basic things, but sometimes we forget it. She goes,
you know who's going through a hard time right now?
And then it pause. Everybody. Everybody is going through something
(37:12):
right now. And I try to remember that when I
talk about these very uncomfortable conversations that force you to
pick aside some In many ways, it forces you to
pick aside. And isn't it okay just to be like
I don't have my thoughts fully formed yet. I can
(37:35):
give you an opinion, but my thoughts are fully formed. However,
I do believe we all deserve to be treated with kindness.
We all deserve to be treated with fairness. We all
deserve to have our humanity acknowledged. I'm Carrie Champion, and
(37:55):
I approve this message. Naked Sports written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion, Produced by Jacquees Thomas, Sound designed
and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part
of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
in women's basketball right now is what we've been trying
to get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums
where athletes break barriers and set records. Katlin Clark broke
(00:23):
the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey everybody, I hope you
(00:54):
all had a good week. Thank you for listening to
another edition of Naked Sports with yours truly. I on
today's podcast will attempt to do something that I think
is important, And I also wanted to talk about this
particular topic because it's coming out over and over again,
and if I'm gonna be honest with you and candid
(01:16):
with you, I don't think there's enough research. I just
don't think there's enough information about transgender athletes.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
DA DA DA.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
That is the topic I am choosing to address. It
is Pride Month, so it is timely. However, and I
say this to you knowing that you all understand me,
at least if you listen to the podcast. You know
that I'm pretty open about talking about most things, but
I don't like to talk about things I'm not really
educated on it. And so I say that to say,
(01:50):
I've noticed there's been a lot of conversation about transgender athletes,
and apparently there is this notion and or philosophy that
there are of transgender athletes trying to compete in girls sports,
especially at the high school level and below. And if
I threw out some numbers, you'd say, well, okay, that
(02:12):
doesn't seem like there's some sort of epidemic where transgender
athletes are trying to participate in girls sports. Nationwide, on
the collegiate level, there are approximately half a million student
athletes five hundred thousand, and of those student athletes, I
recently read that about a handful less than a dozen
or transgender. That means I don't even know what those
(02:35):
percentages are, but it doesn't seem as if there's some
sort of epidemic, as some people on some side of
the aisle would lead you to believe. Recently, I was
on a CNN panel, and not just on the CNN panel,
I'm often asked about this by different people. I just
wish two things. I wish it wasn't such a controversial topic. One.
(02:55):
Two I wish there wasn't so much misinformation. Three I
wish that people did not weaponize sports so that they
can use sports as a way to marginalize other people
that they are not comfortable with. To use sports as
a weapon, when sports in itself should be inclusive, it's
(03:18):
pretty sad. Sports in itself should give you self esteem.
It should teach you camaraderie. It should teach you how
to compete, It should teach you how to problem solve,
be a solution oriented person. And so now, especially under
the current climate that we are in in this country,
(03:39):
no one is really safe, you know, And now that
everyone is asking me about transgender athletes, I thought it'd
be smart for me to one find someone who could
talk about it better than me, or two just provide
you all with some context. So as I was saying, recently,
I was on a CNN panel and I was asked
about story out of Northern California, clovid to be exact,
(04:00):
and you may have heard of it, and it goes
as follows. These are the particulars a transgender athlete was
set to participate in a CIF Track and Field championship, which,
as many could imagine, divided parents and students alike. The
student athlete in question was in the eleventh grade. Is
in the eleventh grade, and when this student athlete made
(04:23):
it to the championships in Northern California, the story gained
national attention, and parents and students and leaders and anyone
who wanted to weigh in weighed in on this particular
story about whether or not this transgender athlete should be
allowed to compete in the women's category in the girls
(04:45):
category for the CIF Track and Field Championships. Abe Hernandez
is a transgender student ultimately allowed to compete, but it
was done so with a compromise so her Hernandez or
to medal. This was before the championship. Hernandez would get
a spot on the podium. It would be an extra
(05:07):
spot so that it wouldn't take away from any of
the biological female athletes who were competing. Hernandez did compete
and meddled in two different events, taking home gold. Hernandez
shared that medal with two other girls who were also
in competition with Hernandez. And listen to what some folks
(05:31):
had to say about Hernandez being allowed to compete and
what they thought it meant for other female athletes.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I'm gonna listen.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I don't have to.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I have a right to speak truth. Boy, girls are girls.
There's probably not be long competing against those girls. Period.
What a coward of a woman you are allowing that?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Telling are women telling our woman telling girls to go
and compete against a boy?
Speaker 3 (05:57):
How embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
How you're a mother, You're a mother, Stand up like
a mother.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I am a mother.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I'm protecting girls.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You want a boy?
Speaker 5 (06:05):
How many people support the boy?
Speaker 6 (06:10):
Now?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Tell me to shut up.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I was respectful to you.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Your mental illness is on your son.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So the reason I decided to talk about transgender athletes
is simply because I've noticed that this issue, in particular,
as I said before, is being weaponized for political gain
or simply as a way to say I don't like you,
and I don't want you involved in society. It's a
(06:45):
way to exclude a class of people. And if I'm
honest with you, and this is why I say this
is the hard part for me, and I'll say the
quiet part out loud. My hope is that I could
always have an honest converse, especially with those who listen
to the podcast. But I do know I can say
this with full confidence. There's a lot about this topic
(07:09):
that many of us do not know. It's not well researched,
it's not talked about in a way that makes sense
from both sides, all sides. And I also believe there
used to be some more science. This is my take,
but this is a lot that I just don't understand
on face value. If I am a parent and I
have two young girls competing in a high school competition,
(07:30):
I probably would lean towards the side of saying nope,
I'm just not comfortable with a transgender athlete competing with
my girls, because I don't know if it's a fair fight.
Does that transgender athlete happen to edge, would it be
allowed any other circumstance? Does that take away from something
(07:50):
that my daughter deserves. These are all the questions that
I would have if I was a parent. And I
say this to you because I've talked to many parents,
and one of my friends, who has two daughters playing volleyball,
said to me, if I didn't have kids, I probably
would say let her Nandez compete. But because I have
two girls who compete at the middle school and high
(08:13):
school level, I don't know if I think it's fair.
Now here's the deal. That may sound cool, it may
sound as if she wants to exclude transgender athletes, but
I do know when talking to her, she said she
just didn't have enough information, but just on just her
gut feeling brought off the rip. That was her thought. However,
(08:36):
and I want to make sure we are very clear.
Just because someone says they don't want their daughter to
compete with transgender athletes does not mean that that particular
parent wants to be mean and or cruel to transgender athletes.
And that was what was happening with Hernandez. When this
(08:57):
story first broke, there were protests. They were grown adults
calling this this young kid all sorts of names, which
is so disgusting. And there's also this lack of humanity,
almost as if ab Hernandez was not a human being,
and that anything could be said or done to this teenager.
(09:19):
And that's where I get upset. Two things can be true.
I could agree with my friend who has two little
girls playing high school sports in middle school sports, but
I also can agree with the fact that people still
need to be treated like human beings. I understand that
(09:40):
people were upset, parents, politicians, you name it. They were
upset because of what they thought was being taken away.
But yet, and still, that doesn't mean you have to
treat that teenager horribly. We're going to take a quick
break because we have to pay some bills. We'll be
right back in just a few moments. So I was
(10:09):
moved by this conversation with my girlfriend, and I started
calling around doing some research. I started asking other people
what they thought. I started to listen to a lot
of stories about Olympians who were transgenders, and Olympians on
the collegiate level who were transgenders. The pros and the cons.
What does it mean, what does it take? All of
(10:30):
the things that I just really didn't know. And I
started to dig deep, and what I realized is that
and I don't know if this makes a difference for anyone,
but at the Olympic level and also at the collegiate level,
there is significant testing. Before transgender athlete is allowed to
compete in a sport, there is hormone testing, There has
(10:52):
to be clearance from a doctor, there has to be
proof that hormone therapy is being provided. There are all
of these checks and balances on the collegiate and on
the Olympian level. So I call my girlfriend and I
talked to her about this, and I want to share
this with you all because it really blew my mind
(11:14):
and we were having a very honest conversation. So I'm
going to read this text, and this is from someone
I respect who is in sports, and someone who had
a very different perspective but also understood my perspective. My
friend writes, here's the thing. Some of these people are
claiming it about fairness, when in truth they just don't
(11:35):
want them to exist in any capacity and feel no peace.
Bathroom sports. It will never be enough. That's why some
states are banning gender affirming care altogether. Because it wasn't
ever about sports. They keep going to the point where
they say it's about fairness and sports, and this, that
and the third. But it's truly not about sports, because
(11:59):
sports is such low hanging fruit. If you can get
people to ban them from sports, it won't be hard
to get people to support them being banned elsewhere. And
when my friends sent me that text, that's when the
discrimination really popped in my head, and I thought, is
it about sports or is it about excluding a class
(12:22):
of people that you don't believe deserve the same civil
rights that you have. I'm asking myself that question. I
am asking others who are opposed to transgender athletes competing,
I am asking you that question. I got even more
detailed with her, and I said, help me understand this.
(12:45):
Are you saying on the high school level that there
is no testing? Not really, because they don't have the resources,
that was the response. Not really because high schools don't
have the resources. One and two too, there aren't that
many transgender athletes to dedicate money to to decide if,
(13:06):
in fact, the hormone replacement therapy is working, whether or
not they are meeting certain rules like, they just don't
have the funds to do the science that is needed.
And so as a result, many people administrators on the
high school level and the middle school level want to
have a compromise, and that's what they tried to do
(13:28):
in Clovis, California. That was a compromise that they were
trying to do. They came up with and they thought
that this would please people on both sides of the aisles.
They would please naysayers and those who were forward, But no,
people were still very upset. So then my good girlfriend
Jamel Hill just so happens to do a podcast this
(13:52):
week with a transgender athlete, the very first transgender athlete
in the WNBA at least to my knowledge. Lisha cleared
it and I listened to this podcast and I was
blown away by what I did not know. I'm going
to share a few moments with you, and I encourage
(14:13):
you really to listen and be be curious about what
Lesha's talking about. It really is interesting.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
I mean, some of the struggles are just the toll
of being the first. Like I think, there's so much.
I have a deep gratitude and appreciation for people in
history who've been the first, especially black folks, and so
I know I'm in that line of folks who have
had to blaze a trail.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
But what comes with that is like an emotional toll.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
It's like it's lonely and it's isolating at times to
be the person. Like the analogy for me is like
you're just hacking. There's no trails, so you're just in
the forest hacking away, like trying to find So you're
gonna get scratched and bruised and you're gonna get a
little bloody. You're going to be lonely at times because
you're figuring it out. So that was tough for me.
(15:08):
I mean, in the bubble season is when I really
decided I didn't want breasts anymore.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So I was like, all right, these gotta go.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
But then once you make that choice for me, then
I'm I'm really embodying the fact that I don't want
these anymore. So now I have to live with this
body until I can get to a place right where
I'm getting a friend in my gender. So that was
that was really difficult for me. And that's all happening
in the bubble season. We're in Florida, find for our lives,
as you know.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I think those are some of the big ones.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
It could be isolating at times, like I don't realize
like leadership or getting to the top or being the
one of something like.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I want there to be many of us.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I want there to be so many athletes and people
that it's like, great, I'm one of ten, fifteen, twenty.
I had to talk to some other athletes in other sports.
That was helpful for me to kind of reach out
to them.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
You were you also made a very intentional decision to
go public when you had your top surgery and to
show people like what that looked like. I mean, for you,
what was the significance of not you just having the surgery,
but sort of telling the world that, hey, I have
made this decision.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
It was not wanting to be not necessarily in the closets.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I think people who make that choice, I wouldn't say
it's it's it's a similar to being in the closet.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
But for me, it was really just wanting to be.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Like loud and proud about who I was and know that, like,
this isn't something I'm afraid or ashamed of. I didn't
know my nipples were gonna end up on USA today.
I'm glad I covered them. I put the stars over them,
like I didn't expect it to blow up the way
it did.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
So that kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Did that decision to share about my top surgery, like
it thrust me into a different stratosphere of I don't know,
celebrity I would say deity in some ways in the
queer community. That was something I wasn't prepared for or
like a consequence of that was like, oh whoa Like
this is like my story became other people's story to
(17:14):
like run with. And up until that point, I feel
like I'd shared stuff and our women's basketball world was you.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Know, small and intimate.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
It's clearly blowing up in a big way at this
moment in time. But that for me was like oh,
and then I'm seeing other people talk about me online
and talk about you know, fighting for what pronouns I use,
and I'm like, thank you, but I also I use
all of them. You're not even like this is but
it's right. Everyone has a connection to that story because
I represent I became a symbol for people. So that
(17:42):
was a really fascinating part of it that has had
me ever since.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Then kind of juggling like what I want to.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Share about my life publicly and privately, Like what parts
of me do only belong to me? And I don't
regret sharing that top surgery at all, but it's had
me wrestling with the like okay, yeah, like once you
put it out there, it's the world, like they get
to run with it, and it's so many fans have
really appreciated it.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So I love that part about it.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
I have another follow up for you about that, but
before and you can call me a jackass for saying this,
but realize this is the nerdy grammar person in me
that they them.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It just radically doesn't always look right, and it just.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Drives me crazy when I see it because being you,
because like I know how it's supposed to be used.
You know, obviously I pronouns, but it's like the they
them has me constantly in a grammatical circle of hell.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, it's just like sometimes people.
Speaker 7 (18:41):
Like, what it's me, I'm multiple people because you're you're
technically you're you're non binary and you're in you're, so yes,
you are multiple, but I'm like, grammatically, yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
It presents some challenges in sentences, yes, but you know,
as you just mentioned, a moment ago is like carrying
that way to being the first. I remember something Kamala
Harris said is that you know when you break a ceiling.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
It implies breaking is involved, right.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
So that means that there's yeah, she ate that she
dropped the barrow netw is she yea, there's going to
be some scaring. But nevertheless, as you say, your story
represented so many people who don't have the same voice and.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Platform as you.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
So how do how do you.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Handle mentally handle the heaviness of that.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I mean, therapy has been one and that's been great
talking through it. I have a good amount of trans friends,
to particular, two or three in particular that have gone
through the experiences and have been people who honestly been
a light for me. One of my best friends, Ran Warden,
has like in the lighted a path like is I
(19:52):
didn't know before them that like even what non binary
really meant, because so much of ours is still very
like all right, you're either a signed mail at birth.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And you want to be a woman.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Okay, you're transitioning all the way. There's like this like
final destination that you want to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
I've got people in my life fortunately that have like
showed me the way.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Like my best friend had talked to her and I was.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Like, oh cool, Like at the time, I wasn't thinking
about I was like, oh, sure, okay, and then like
they were using different pronouns. I was like, all right,
I was fumbling. I'm messing him up and be like trying
them on and be like, oh, it's weird to say
he and she if they. But that representation just sunk
something in for me to have that space. So then
when I was ready to kind of go through it
and ask these questions so my people, my community therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Honestly, choosing what to share and what not.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
To share about my life anymore has been helpful because
I used to live in the world where I could
I can DM everybody back and I can you know,
when you're small enough, you can have those interactions. But
the Internet has also turned to a wild, wild, wild place,
so I've had to really protect my mental health and
aspect too.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
As you know, right now, we're the time where it's
a very hostile environment for the trans community. I mean
it's just twenty twenty five alone, there have been one
hundred and nine anti trans bills that have been passed
so far in a variety of states and overall, I
mean just in the last few years, there's been a
total of nine hundred and fourteen that have been on
(21:23):
the table, which is a staggering number given what this
climate feels like now, and especially with a lot of
directives coming from the White House, particularly about stopping the
participation of trans.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Girls in sports. What does this climate feel like for you?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But it feels terrible. It feels it's like you're, you know,
living your day to day life.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Everything is supposed to be normal right now, but we
all know we're kind of living under like Laate stage
capitalism and like fascism is We're all like, are we really.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
In a Handmaid's Tale?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
But any minute now, but we should be running, but
do we have our passports? And like, you know, being
on a podcast, working my job every day, but then
also having that kind of invisible cloud of that weight
that just like sits on you and you don't know
why you're anxious sometimes and you kind of have to
remind yourself, stayed on gaslight your itself, like, oh, there's
a lot of shit going on in the world, Like
people don't I had a break down, like probably every
(22:24):
once in a while.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Same way about like being black in America, It's like.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
You have to have some level of disassociation to like
be able to get in your car every time and
drive to know like you could be murdered driving down
the street by the police.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
So in that same way, I feel like I have
to I'm fully like embodied as a trans person, and
I love that, but at times I have to like
box it out and not not believe that, like this
is the state of the world we're living in.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And so I had just break down another day. It
was just like the country I.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Live in in the current administration, and a lot of
people like they just don't want me to exist. They
just don't literally don't want people like me to exist.
And to feel that so misseraily like as a black
person and as a transperson, it is something familiar.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And also something that is weighty. It's like we just stay.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
With black people, like I just want to live, Like
can y'all just stop lynching us, beating.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Us, pulling us over, like just let us exist.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
And I feel that deeply as a transperson is like
we're literally just trying to exist and we're actually like
a gift to the world, Like we are a gift
in so many ways that we help people see that
you don't have to subscribe to all of these oppressive
gender notions that like you, actually we all have a
gender expression. We all have the ability to put on
whatever clothes we want every day, to be fluid, to
(23:46):
understand we all embody masculinity and femininity. But like we
have the audacity to show up in a world right
now that doesn't want us here, that wants to erase us,
and to still be like, no, I'm fucking here. So
at the end of the day, Like that's part of
what also gets me through the day, is like I'm
not going to be silent and shut up. Even I'm
finding my balance, I'm still going to be like, now
(24:08):
you don't see me, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
So that was JAML Hill talking to Alicia Clardon on politics.
Thank you so much, your friend for allowing me to
use that podcast. I think if you are like I am,
which I'm very curious about what I don't know so
that I can have an informed response. I walked away
from that conversation not necessarily changing my opinion, but understanding
(24:32):
that I don't know enough to have a real valid opinion.
And as I started this podcast, I said, I'm often
on CNN, and they asked me about it as if
it's definitive, and I can tell you my personal thoughts
and what I think personally, But the truth of the
matter is is that I don't know enough to give
a fully educated opinion, and I don't think many people do.
(24:55):
I think, to my other friend's point, who's been covering
this story, for a majority of people, this is a
way to say we don't mind them, we don't like them,
they don't belong here. It's another way to exclude a
class of people that you believe don't deserve the same
(25:22):
basic humanitarian rights as the rest of the world. And
if you have a problem with transgender athletes, I'll ask
you this question. Do you have a problem with LGBTQIA people.
Do you have a problem with someone who doesn't think
(25:44):
or act like you? Do you have a problem with
someone you disagree with how they live their lives? And
that is a tough question, right No one wants to
answer that truthfully, No one wants to say that quiet
part out loud. No one. And I'm hesitating to really
(26:10):
find the words because in our climate, as mentioned, this
is a serious issue. This is becoming a topic that
doesn't really need to be a topic. But because it
grabs people's attentions, it makes people feel as if there
(26:34):
is something being taken from them and or their children.
It makes other people feel like the world is going
to hell in a handbasket what is going on? And
people are generally up in arms for what they believe
is a change in our society that they don't want
to see. Listen, believe how you believe, think what you
(26:59):
want to think, have your own opinion. You are entitled
to that. I'm not here to convince anyone. I'm just
doing my job and I'm just giving you this information.
I hope in the conversation that you heard with a issue,
you felt like she was able to give you an
example of what she has to deal with on the
other side of this. And for me, I walked away thinking,
(27:24):
at the end of the day, everybody deserves dignity and respect.
At the end of the day, I hate when people
mistreat me, whether it be because they think I'm not
a good person, or whether it be because they don't
like the fact that I am a black woman or
a woman in general. I do not want to be
mistreated by something I cannot help. And there lies the rub.
(27:53):
You would let me throw a few questions out, because
I don't know as a teenager to go to your
parents and say I am not comfortable in my body.
I don't believe I was meant to be a boy,
or I don't believe I was meant to be a girl.
(28:16):
And then you take this radical, bold choice to say
I want to be identified as something different, knowing that
you will be vilified, bullied, and or perhaps lose your life,
depending on whatever the circumstances are and where you are
(28:37):
in this world. That is a life threatening decision that
you are making. And heaven forbid, someone so young, whose
brain isn't even fully developed, they have to make that
decision because they don't feel right. From my understanding the
research that I've read, if someone is deciding to do this,
it's because it's not for fun. It's not it's not
(29:00):
because it is trendy. It is because what they truly feel.
Knowing there are so many repercussions that come from that
making that choice, making a choice to say that I
want to be transgender, you would have to think if
you have any compassion, whether you agree or disagree with
(29:22):
that decision, you wouldn't vilify a child. Fine, You could
be mad at their parents, that's okay, fine. You could
be mad at the school system that said Abe Hernandez
can compete. But I really really walked away thinking where
is the humanity for people who are trying to find
(29:45):
a place in society to exist? And I'm talking to myself,
I'm talking to you, I'm talking to everybody. And while
I haven't fully formed an opinion, I know what I believe,
I know what I have said said. I know that
I do agree with my girlfriend who has two kids,
and she says that they are playing at a very
(30:07):
high level, and she knows how good they are and
what they sacrifice and what they do as competitors. One
is in high school, the other is in middle school,
and they are extremely talented athletes, and she knows how
it feels when they lose a game against other girls
who are better than them, and she understands the competition
and how the positions and the slots are so far
(30:31):
few between as you get hire and hire and hire.
She's talking about just competing at a high level, and
in her mind, a transgender athlete competing against her daughter.
If that were the case and her daughter lost, she
would think it was an unfair fight, and people genuinely
can keep it about sports. They really can. But I don't.
(30:54):
I don't know. I don't think most people are like
something taboo to talk about. I know for a fact,
if I have this conversation, people get uncomfortable. You might
be listening to this right now getting uncomfortable. I know
other colleagues of mine don't like to talk about it
because they don't want to be canceled because they may
say something wrong on either side. Even while recording this
(31:16):
podcast with my producer Drayne, I said, oh my god,
I said it wrong.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Go back, do that.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I didn't say that right, Do it again. We're going
to take a quick break because we have to pay
some bills. We'll be right back in just a few moments,
but I want to leave you all with this. I
(31:44):
listened to ab Hernandez talk about what it meant to compete,
talk about the upcoming competition, and then also talk about
the response that ab Hernandez received from the community. Good
in that take a listen.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
She spoke to Aby Hernandez before today's event, and she
tells me that she is giving it all she can
because her focus right now is the sport, and she's
ignoring all the criticism that is surrounding her because again,
she wants to make sure that she's giving it her
very best out on the field. Also, we spoke to
her mother, Nadea, who tells me she is Aby's biggest
(32:24):
supporter throughout this entire journey, which involves sacrifice, training, celebration,
and also hate. She says, it's hate from all those
people that oppose a trans athlete from participating in a
girl's competition.
Speaker 9 (32:38):
It's nervous right now, you know, State finals back here again,
just like trying.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Not to get in my head and just relax. But
it's a little harder.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
This year.
Speaker 10 (32:49):
Aby Hernandez opening up for the first time about her
ongoing participation as a trans athlete in a high school girls'
sports competition. It's generated strong criticism, including from President Trump,
who threatened to cut state funding if they quote illegally
allow men to play in women's sports. This was the
girl's triple jump varsity competition on Friday, held at Buchanan
(33:11):
High School in Clovis, where Hernandez took the top spot.
A few hours earlier, the high school teenager competed in
the girl's high jump and long jump Varsity, where she
also ranked first place and qualified her to Saturday's events.
Speaker 6 (33:26):
When you see how happy this kid is being herself,
you know, the first time I saw her come out
dressed as a girl, that she didn't have to hide
it from me.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I saw it in.
Speaker 6 (33:36):
Her face, so I was like, this is it, this
is what she wants. I'm going to support it.
Speaker 9 (33:41):
Behind AB's every move is her mother, Naeida, who has
been watching from the crowd and protecting her sixteen year
old daughter from nearby protesters, both on the ground and
in the sky.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
I'm not losing my child because of my stubbornness and
for me being close minded, like I rather a race.
Are times together, even if it's been this difficult, then
going to a cemetery and crying because I couldn't accept something.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So in conclusion, having this uncomfortable conversation, I don't have
any answers, and I hate. I hate that that's the
first thing. But what I also hate is that people
feel like they need to have an answer about a
very very complicated topic for some people. For some people
(34:31):
it's black and white. No means no, yes means yes.
For others it's complicated. It's complicated because for me anyway,
I know, I'm speaking from a sports perspective. I'm not
speaking from a perspective of I don't want that person
to be included in activities or that child to be
(34:51):
included in activities. I'm speaking from a sports perspective thinking.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Now?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Remember as an Olympian, and there are rules, there are tests,
their guidelines, the science is there to at least attempt
to prevent the unfair equation in terms of competition. They
do it again again on the collegiate level, at least
to make an attempt to say the science has been done.
This athlete can compete. They do not have a physical advantage.
(35:22):
But I also believe, much like everything in this society,
ten years from now, someone will say the science was wrong.
Twenty years from now, someone will say the science was wrong,
there was an advantage or there was never even an
issue with advantage of giving them a fair fight or not.
It's like, you know, they're telling us, you know, years later,
we are not supposed to, you know, eat gluten, And
(35:42):
I'm like, gluten, Yeah, gluten.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Everybody was in gluten. Do you remember a time when
gluten free was even a thing. No, I'm otied to
remember gluten free was not even a thing. The science
now it says gluten is an issue. Your body now
says gluten issue. And I'm making light of an issue.
But I am talking about well that we live in
where we are constantly learning, and we are constantly trying
(36:04):
to get better, and we are constantly doing research, and
we're learning about what is out there in society. And
that's where I'll hang my hat in terms of what
I do and don't know. But I don't have a
straight answer for you. I really don't. And I would
encourage anyone, anyone if you believe firmly in what you believe.
(36:25):
If you don't think transferred definite should be competing, great,
that's what you believe, leave it there. If you think
they should compete, great, leave it there. But there is
a group of people who truly live like I live,
and think I don't know enough. I know, I feel,
but I definitely don't know enough. So I leave you
(36:48):
with this. I saw this on Mel Robbins the other day.
You guys like Mel Robins. I'm name dropping a lot
of other podcasts, but I do like listening to her,
and she says the most simple things, right, the most
simple and basic things, but sometimes we forget it. She goes,
you know who's going through a hard time right now?
And then it pause. Everybody. Everybody is going through something
(37:12):
right now. And I try to remember that when I
talk about these very uncomfortable conversations that force you to
pick aside some In many ways, it forces you to
pick aside. And isn't it okay just to be like
I don't have my thoughts fully formed yet. I can
(37:35):
give you an opinion, but my thoughts are fully formed. However,
I do believe we all deserve to be treated with kindness.
We all deserve to be treated with fairness. We all
deserve to have our humanity acknowledged. I'm Carrie Champion, and
(37:55):
I approve this message. Naked Sports written and executive produced
by me Kerry Champion, Produced by Jacquees Thomas, Sound designed
and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part
of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
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