July 28, 2025 • 39 mins
MALCOLM JAMAL WARNER
August 18, 1970 - July 20, 2025
Learn More and reflect on the life of: Malcolm Jamal Warner / @MalcolmJamalWar
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to get.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
To for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Caitlinquar broke the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, family, Welcome to another
(00:53):
edition of Naked Sports Today. I am doing a replay intentionally,
I am doing a replay of an interview that I
did with Malcolm Jamal Warner in January of twenty twenty two.
Let me set the scene, because we were still at
the very tail end of COVID. People were just now
(01:13):
starting to get back to work. Some people still were
working from home, and things were just different. There were
still a lot of uncertainty, but we were starting to
transition from being in the house to being back outside.
And let me tell you, I think I might want
to go back in the house. That's just me. But
when I interviewed him, he had a new show and
he was promoting that new show. But I had to
(01:36):
talk to him about a lot of things, his legacy,
his life, his career, his family, and now that he
is no longer with us, the stories that he shared
with me seemed so much more powerful, especially the stories
about his daughter, who was then at the time, I
believe five years old. And for those who have been
(01:57):
keeping up with the news, Malcolm Jamal Warner when he
was on vacation with his family in Costa Rica, we
didn't really know anything about what happened because the family
is letting the details out bit by bit. But we
do know now that he was swimming with his eight
year old daughter who was rescued, and sadly, when they
(02:17):
tried to rescue Malcolm, he had already passed away. They
tried to resuscitate him, from my understanding, for forty five minutes.
There were lifeguards there, volunteer lifeguards. They are trying to
help him, at least resuscitate him in some former fashion,
and they tried their best to no end. Now I
don't know the particulars in terms of what his daughter saw,
but I have to imagine if they were swimming together,
(02:40):
she too witnessed what happened, and I can't even imagine
the trauma that that will lay out in her life
because of that, and if in fact she'll ever be
able to get over it. My prayer is that this
entire family, his friends, his fans for that matter, are
able to have some sort of resolve. I'm sending healing energy.
(03:02):
And the reason why I'm having a hard time with
my words is because for me, which I did discuss
in this podcast back in twenty twenty two, Malcolm Jamal
Warner was everyone's boyfriend. I had a crush on him.
I was a kid. I was like, well, if I
had a boyfriend, I would want him to be like that.
He was the perfect kid on The Cosby Show, and
for that matter, the Cosby Show meant so much to me.
(03:23):
I say this to anyone, especially the younger generation, go
back and watch the Cosby Show. It's okay to watch
The Cosby Show. Even though people tried to cancel Bill Cosby,
he still put something on television. He still gave us
something creatively that allowed us to realize and dream. He
highlighted HBCUs, He made sure we knew about them. He
(03:45):
promoted going to school, most importantly going to an HBCU.
He was a real advocate for the black family, and
that's what The Cosby Show represented. Outside of who he
was off the screen, he on television forward facing encouraged
us to be more as a culture. And I respect that.
(04:05):
I know that many of you have canceled him because
of the allegations, and I know he went to jail
and has since been released, etc.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Etc.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But in today's times, and I think even recently thinking
of Diddy, there is a part of us that has
to separate the art from the artist. That doesn't mean
that we excuse their behavior, but that also means I
can appreciate their art because it did something for me,
narrated my childhood in terms of Ditty's music and what
(04:33):
he gave back to the culture, and even Diddy as
a human working with him in certain instances an amazing person.
So I say all that to say during this episode
of Naked this replay, you'll hear Malcolm Jamal Warner talk
about Bill Cosby in a very affectionate way, And to me,
I thought it was special because that's what that man
(04:54):
meant to him, and he had come to peace with
what the allegations were and who that man was for him,
and they were two different people.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, I watched the show now and I think
about people who can't watch the show because they can't
watch the show and not think about everything else. And
you know, obviously that's not my experience, but that's got
to suck for those people. And then it just it
(05:26):
also sucks because you know, it's such a wonderful show
it showed.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So sit back, relax and enjoyed this replay of Naked
Sports with Malcolm Jamal Warner. But truly listen to this
man because he meant so much to a generation of
people who were just trying to figure out what the
future would be and what black men stood for and
what black life could look like for us. No one
(05:51):
that I have ever met has anything bad to say
about this man. He's genuinely a good soul. So I'm
sitting again, love, healing and peace, to his family, celebrate
his life and honor his legacy. We appreciate y'all for listening.
Our guests today, Our guests today. Malcolm Jamal Warner. Now,
(06:13):
if you were like me, and I did mention this
to him, if you're like me, I had a hardcore
crush on THEO when he was on The Cosby Show.
He was everybody's boyfriend. He's fifty one years old now,
but he still looked like THEO from The Cosby Show.
And here's the even better news about Malcolm Jamal Warner.
He is truly solid. You often hear that child stars
(06:37):
have all these issues and they never come around and
they can't settle themselves. And you've seen the horror stories
of child stars, right. He literally grew up on TV
and he credits his parents, his mother, people around him
with that sensibility that helped him understand that you need
to be on a straight and narrow you could see
how it could go the other way in this crazy
(06:59):
talent called Hollywood. He has a show now called The Resident.
I don't know if you guys watch it. He loves
it because he gets to play a jerk and he's like,
this is my favorite part I'm a doctor that's a
jerk because he's naturally a good guy. It sounds that way.
I don't know him well, but it seems that way,
and so this is fun for him. Now, let me
not bury the lead. Let me just be honest with you, guys.
(07:21):
There's a generation of people right now that I am
friendly with that probably didn't understand the significance of the
Cosby Show. Right you young gins, maybe in your twenties,
didn't understand the significance of the Cosby Show. And I'm
gonna be really serious for a moment for black people,
it was life changing for a little girl like me.
It was life changing to see Felicia Rashad, who was
(07:43):
an attorney on the show, right Theo's mom, Claire Huxtable
giving you character names. To watch her in all her elegance,
and I remember there was an episode two where she
was speaking fluent Spanish.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I was like, huh uh done.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Look at this beautiful black woman, elegant, smart, loving, a mother,
a wife. It was foreign to me. It really was
not that my mother wasn't all of those things, but
this woman carried a certain genes aquad that everyone could
just see and it leaped off the camera and then
her husband was this amazing doctor and they lived in
(08:21):
this big house and their kids were great and amazing,
and in my mind, I was like, oh the American dream.
That show for me described the American dream for black folks.
Did y'all feel that way? So you have to understand
that when Bill Cosby went to jail and all the
stories come out about how he was raping women, he
(08:46):
would be holding them hostage, and these are all things
that he was found guilty of, he became sadly a
pariah and it then changed the significance of the Cosby
Show for another generation, but not for me. And I
(09:06):
have to tell you that because that image of seeing
black excellence was first really for me personified on the
Cosby Show. I know people feel a way about Bill
and think away about Bill Hell. I'm not going to
spare and tell you that I don't, but I do
want you to understand. On this episode we get into it.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I don't go.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Too deep, but I ask them about Bill Cosby and
his relationship, and you have to understand that there is
nuance here and you can put things in different buckets
and they can be mutually exclusive and two things can
be true at once. I hope that makes sense. We
start off talking to Malcolm Jamal Warner about his career,
(09:48):
about being a child star and how he was able
to survive. Welcome back from the holidays, and welcome to
this edition of Naked. Here's Malcolm Jamal Warner on start.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I mean, Charon and Kerry chap and Karrie Shelly.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When I was, you know, when I was growing up
and during that whole time, there was so much of
that attention that I, uh, you know, I just took
for granted like it's it's automatic. And it was one
of the things that that gave me a very grounded
perspective on the whole celebrity thing because I understood, well,
(10:29):
anyone who has a TV show out, a hit movie
or hot song, they're going to get this same reaction
or they do get the same reaction from women. So
you know, I always kind of I always kept in
perspective because I got okay, that goes along with the territory.
(10:49):
Whereas now though I still holde that that's true, but
you know, it's not a you know, because now I'm
dealing with you, I'm I'm an adult. A lot of
that fan base, you know, are adults as well, So
it doesn't my reception of it now, I don't take
(11:11):
it as oh, just you know, uh, it's just a
teenage fan thing. Like now, I feel like people who
who watch my work and enjoy what I do and
have grown with me. It feels more substantive, if that
makes sense. You know. The reality is I have been
(11:33):
on television, uh, since I was eleven years old, you know,
you know, I'm very conscious of the whole the whole thing,
you know, and and and especially during that time, when
you know, it's it was the norm for a kid
(11:53):
in this business who is highly recognizable to just be
off the chain and the and with that you have
to go back to the parents. So I was very Look,
there's a lot of work I've done myself, but I
was very fortunate to have really wonderful parents and a
mother who had no space to get caught up in
(12:17):
the trappings of Hollywood or trappings of success, because her
you know, her main thing was, well, when this show
was over, because this show can be over next year,
what are you going to do? What are you going
to do? I put one hundred percent of the responsible
of the parental responsibility on the parent because a lot
(12:38):
of times the parent will live vicariously through the kid.
So if the parent has gotten caught up and has
gone Hollywood, then there's no one there to give guidance
and direction to the kid. And I'd say in you know,
I do not know of a case where the parents
(13:01):
did their one hundred percent parenting and the kids still
came out wayward.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Kudos to those who helped raise Malcolm because the village
that has kept him in the right frame of mind
and obviously gainfully employed in a very fickle town called Hollywood,
has done an amazing job. You know, child stars, we've
seen the stories, right, they don't last song, they overdose,
they turn into people that can't get jobs because they've
(13:30):
never really been anything else but a child star, so
they don't have a skill set, I mean all of
the things. And Malcolm, it's not that person. And I
asked him about what he learned about being a child star,
and he said, you know, he learned a lot from
Bill Cosby into the two words that people don't like
to say that you can't mention in public. There are
some people who have been quote unquote canceled and there is,
(13:52):
as I mentioned earlier, a generation of people who only
know Cosby has the subject of a highly, highly publicized
rape accusations. You're right, I'm having a hard time even
getting it out. I'm trying to be careful with my words.
But the reality is is that Bill Cosby has been
accused by famous and non famous women of basically giving
(14:16):
them drugs, drugging them and then raping them. Sexual battery,
sexual misconduct. All of these things have been talked about
for years, but quietly no one's really done anything about it.
But right around that Me Too movement, they were calling
up receipts and he was one of the people that
they went after, and as you well know, he went
(14:38):
to jail. He was in jail, however, got out on
a technicality because he was charged with the crime that
he shouldn't have been charged with. Right. I'm paraphrasing, and
I don't know all the particulars, but I do know
that Bill Cosby, for many of you all, has become
a name that you can't say in public or even
say that you like the Cosby Show. When I was
growing up, the Cosme Show reruns would be ond all
(15:00):
day long, right, and it was a thing of I
mean to me, it was an honor.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Did you guys watch a Cosby show? Oh, you were
a part of the Cosby Show.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Bill Cosby's a great man, Felicia Shad's a great woman,
all of the things. And now it's tight. So I
asked Malcolm, as I dance around this with y'all, I asked, Malcolm,
how does it feel not to be able to talk
to someone you consider a mentor and someone who was
(15:31):
pivotal in changing your life?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Bunny, I've never said this publicly before. It fucking sucks.
Like it sucks like I watch my daughter's four, and uh,
you know, she's discovered the Cosby Show or she she
calls it Rudy's Family, and she knows this me. She's like,
that's Papa, Like she knows this me. But she has
(15:54):
no interest in THEO. She wants to fast forward through
my scenes so she can see Rudy or Olivia. And
it's so so one. It's very surreal watching the show
with my daughter and being able to, now that I'm
so far removed from the show, be able to enjoy
it as a viewer and not judging or you know,
(16:16):
critiquing my work. I can just be a viewer and
you know, watch the show from that perspective, and so
that's surreal in itself, watching with my daughter. But you know,
I watched the show now and I think about people
who can't watch the show because they can't watch the
show and not think about everything else. And you know,
(16:41):
obviously that's not my experience, but that's got to suck
for those people. And then it just it also sucks
because you know, it's such a wonderful show. It's such
a you know, I don't have to you know, I
don't have to know anything about the show. We all
know what the show is. So it sucks that, you know,
(17:07):
for a lot of people experiencing the show doesn't have
the same experience. You know, I may, you know, if
I'm talking to you know, whether it's whether it's an
interview or I'm having a conversation with someone, and there
might be a you know, a story that comes up,
like even you know, just you know, simply you know,
mister Cosby talking about it's a marathon, not a sprint,
(17:29):
like those gyms, and often when I have those you know,
when when I have those gyms or are wecall those
gyms in conversation, you know, I always credit the source,
you know, from which I got it. So there was
a time where in conversations I would probably avoid, you know,
either giving the gym or you know, saying where I
(17:51):
got it from. Whereas now I don't really, you know,
I don't care to avoid it because it takes too
much of my energy to tiptoe around something because I'm
not quite sure how this person is going to receive it.
Like at this point, I don't I don't care, like
I don't care what you you know, what your opinion is,
(18:13):
because it doesn't matter, just like my opinion at the
end of the day doesn't matter, you know. So at
this point it's just something. You know, it is what
it is, and you know I don't I don't try
away from it. I don't try to sweep it under
the rug. I don't throw under the bus. I don't
(18:33):
defend you know. It is what it is, and we
all know what it is. Yeah, and if you want
to have authentic conversations, you know, then yeah you have
you have you can't tiptoe around it. And then and
then it also it kind of you know, for me,
it kind of gets straight to the point like, you know,
(18:55):
let's talk about this topic so we can see where
each other is and we can we can move from.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The well that had to be tough, right and it
still has to be tough. When the Cosby allegations became
public and it was well known to the world that
Bill Cosby was fighting for his life essentially and going
to jail ultimately now released, Malcolm has said it over
(19:20):
and over again. He was like, it's hard not to
say that the legacy of Bill Cosby and the Cosby
Show has not been tarnished. That was one of his responses. However,
Rudy on the show said something really smart. Keisha Knight Pullam,
when interviewed and talked about Bill Cosby, she said, I'm
going to tell you why it's not tarnished, and I'm
(19:41):
paraphrasing what Bill Cosby did for HBCUs because they were
always highlighted on The Cosby Show, and what he did
for the culture and what images he presented, true or false.
Images he presented were always the gold standard. They were
always of black excellence in front of the camera, and
(20:02):
so for that, we do understand that there was something
special there. However, we are where we are today, and
men can't be heroes. That's the way that I feel
about it. Men can't always be heroes men or women
in that sense. We're normal humans. We make mistakes, we
(20:22):
do things wrong, we commit egregious crimes, we have evil hearts.
The list goes on, and it's sad that someone who
was so well revered is now essentially an isolation, shunned
from society. And I quite frankly understand why, and I
understand why Malcolm still holds him in a different space.
(20:46):
But he also knows that there was wrong that was done,
and that's why I was trying to tell you. The
two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they can be.
Moving on to the pain endemic.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So we shoot the resident in Atlanta, uh and UH
normally over high. So we'll shoot from July to April,
and then normally from you know, the end of April
to you know, beginning of July. We'll go back to
LA and be home. So when the pandemic happened, our
daughter was two, you know, turning three, and with the
(21:26):
whole you know, the whole mass situation, the whole unknown,
we decided we were not going to go back to
Los Angeles because it just didn't Neither one of us
could imagine trying to be on a four and a
half hour flight with a toddler who's not going to
keep a mask on and wants to touch everything and
put everything in their mouth. So we, you know, we
said we're just gonna bite the bullet and stay in Atlanta.
(21:49):
And you know, our you know, our friends, our family,
our life is in La So being in Atlanta and
you know, during this uh, you know, the whole show
down in quarantine situation, it gave the three of us, know,
just wonderful time to be together and be a family.
(22:13):
And you know, my daughters used to me going to
work and being home all day, I mean you being
at work all day. So for her, she was in
sheer heaven because she had Mama and Papa all day
every day. So when she woke up at seven point thirty,
bleary eye, saying, Papa, play with me, Play with me, Papa,
(22:35):
and literally because we did it, we weren't using it
and Nanny right, So literally from seven thirty in the
morning where she woke up till eight thirty, at nine
o'clock at night, may, oh my god, we went and
got an above the ground pool because we couldn't go
(22:55):
to the splash pad anymore. So we made it work
and it was It was a beautiful time just for
us to to bond and be able to and you know,
I'm even when I'm working, I'm I'm a very present
husband and father, but too, you know, be able to
be that twenty four to seven and not have to,
(23:18):
you know, go off to work and be at work
all day was beautiful. And then I also realized how
much going to work was an escape for I had.
But with that, I had nowhere to go, and you know,
and I had I had a record I was trying
to finish. It's gonna be my quarantine, you know project.
(23:40):
But you know, I'm I'm always faced with this. You know.
My daughter's like, Papa, don't play bass, play with me,
you know, And I'm like, Okay, you know what, this
bass will always be here. She's not going to always
before asking me to play with her. So, you know,
it's it's been great for our family.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We got to pay some bills Malcolm Jamal Warner more
from him on the other side of the break be
back in a.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Moment every champion and Cary champion is to be a champion,
a champion, and Cary Chappion and carry chap Beata champion
and carry Chappi and carried chaffyfraid is entertainment.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Getting naked word.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Every champion and carry Chappy is to be a champion,
a champion, and Carrid Champion, the girl a champion and
carried champion and Carrie Chappy afraid is entertainment.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Getting naked wart.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to naked Malcolm is still here,
sharing and blessing. I hope you enjoy so Over the pandemic,
I asked, Malcolm, you know, obviously how are you doing?
But what did you do when he talked about working
on his music and his poetry and his spoken word
and what it meant to him and how important it was. Now,
I don't know about you, but I was today years
(24:54):
old when I realized that he has several albums like
he is truly a poet h And he said, especially
during the pandemic, he was able to talk about what
a lot of us were feeling using his poetry, especially
for the culture, how painful it was. And then I
asked him, I said, so, what do you enjoy the most,
(25:14):
and he says to me, Actually, I am a poet
who happened to be an actor.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I'm a poet, I'm a bass player, I'm a poet.
I I have a jazz funk spoken word band called
Miles Long. We got three CDs out. I wanted to
gram me in twenty fifteen with Leyla Hathaway and Robert Glasper.
Poetry has always been just a huge part of my expression.
(25:39):
My dad went to Lincoln with Gil, Scott Herron and
Brian Jackson, so I literally came out the womb listening
to Gil and listening to last poets. My father went
to Lincoln because Langston went to Lincoln. So just from
my early childhood, poetry was always a part of my expression.
(26:03):
And when spoken words started to become, you know, start
to take shape again in the early nineties, I was
very active in the underground spoken word movement in Los Angeles,
and you know, you know, I know there are there
are a lot of you know, celebrities who could kind
of do poetry and are into poetry, but I you know,
(26:25):
I always make the disclaimer that I am a poet.
I'm not a celebrity who does poetry. You know, I
spent uh, you know, in early nineties, you know, and
it was before before spoken worre became cool, Like it
was just you know, just just before that. I say,
we helped make it cool. But you know, I mean
(26:45):
I spent countless nights in poetry spots, always writing, you know,
always workshopping my poetry. Whenever I, you know, would be
in a different town, I find the I find the
poetry venues and make sure I go there to work out.
You know, poetry has just always been so it wasn't
like you know, this fat that caught on and you
(27:08):
know I started doing it. It was you know, it's
always been a huge part, I keep saying, a huge
part of my expression because it allows me to express
myself in ways that I can't as an actor or
as a director. I don't think not even I mean,
I know every celebrity who does poetry, you know, has
not gone through, uh, you know, through that kind of
(27:31):
grind that poets go through. You know. It's not just
uh you know, it's not just booking a feature and
not that, not that there are a lot of celebrities
who can actually do a feature set. But I just
don't I don't know of a lot of celebrity why
I'm why, I'm a wh I'm a blanking right now,
(27:52):
am Amar Hardwick. So Amar, I I knew A Mari
as a poet before I knew he was an actor. Yeah,
because I'd see him in La and we'd be at
we'd be at these venues, and I always knew Amari
as like this really dope poet, like this dude is fire.
And then I happened to back when there were still DVD's.
(28:14):
I remember seeing some straight to DVD movie with Cuba
Bidding Junior, and I saw picture of Omar. I was like, oh,
Mari's in this so I you know, I rented it
put in and I was like, oh, Omari is an actor.
I was like, oh, He's not just a dope poet,
(28:36):
He's an actor. So so not that there aren't other
you know, celebrities who have you know, put in the
work whatever, but Omari is the only other person I
know who has who who who goes in?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I know for a while what what Harris also he
would be you know, uh he was known for you know,
going out and workshopping his stuff as well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's interesting because you know, we are quote unquote still
in a pandemic, right, We still are in the panorama,
as the folks call it, but we are as normal
as we can be. This is a part of our lives.
And Malcolm has been flourishing prior to you and still
in terms of working, he's on a show called The Resident.
He plays a doctor who is not necessarily well liked
(29:26):
because he is really arrogant and he knows what he's
doing and he's the best in his profession. And he
is this guy who really, you know, kind of get
some people's nerves, if you will, right rubs them the
wrong way. But I find it interesting, especially when I
speak to actors who love these types of roles, not
necessarily a villain, but a departure from whom they are
in real life. And he talks about why he loves
(29:49):
being on this show. And the reason why I think
it's important that we highlight Malcolm working is because then
I've said this from the beginning. Child stars do not
have careers that last long, especially in into the camera.
I can count on my hand how many people that
I am familiar with right that are doing this successfully
and at a high level. And Malcolm is one of
(30:10):
a few, and I'm sure there are others. But when
I tell you, it is hard to do in a
town that is so fickle, and they don't like you
when you get north of a certain age, or they
don't like you if you're not the it person. He
really talks about who you are as an actor, your
skill set, and why people like working with you. So
hats off, kudos because you are thriving. Take a list
(30:31):
in your alln So I guess, I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
For some viewers who have not seen the show. The
Resident is a medical drama. I play doctor aj Austen,
one of the top thoracic surgeons in the country. And
what I love about playing this character is he's a dick.
(30:53):
He's brash. He is very arrogant because he's one of
the best at what he does. But he's not arrogant
out of overcompensating. He's just he's arrogant because he knows
that he is the best at what he does. When
(31:15):
he speaks, he does not care for He's always gonna
speak the truth, so he does not care how the
truth lands on one. It's the truth and you deal
with it. He's a guy who just does not care
what people think of him, which has been wonderful for
me to play because I often say that playing AJ
(31:39):
allows me to be who I don't allow myself to
be in real life. And it's been great. It's been great.
It's been it's been a really good journey. And when
I started the show I was only supposed to do.
I was only on for the last three episodes of
season one and it's season five and I'm still there.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Congratulations to Malcolm Jamal Warner Forever theo huxible to me,
I am sorry. I know you hate that because I
don't want somebody saying, here you forever the sports girl.
I have other interest of the things to do. But
what I love about the Cosby Show, and I'm going
to go back to that because i really want to
be clear, even though I'm not necessarily clear. If I'm
being honest, I know that that show was woefully important
(32:23):
to me growing up. It was what late eighties, early nineties,
and to see the images of powerful black excellence week
in and week out, I believe put me on a
different trajectory and help me dream even bigger. And you
know I love a dream. Felicia Rashad Bill Cosby, Lisa Bonet,
(32:44):
Malcolm Jamal Warner. They were part of my home. They
defined how I looked at black success, a different world
based on HBCU's Cosby's invention. We really have been living
our lives through them for so long, and here we
are today where there is a generation of folks who
(33:05):
only know Bill Cosby as a man who spent time
in jail and has been accused of raping and sexually
assaulting women and women and women over the years. It's unfortunate.
Two things are unfortunate, because I do believe most of
the women it's unfortunate that that happened to them, and
I am sorry. What I also have a problem with, though,
(33:26):
is throwing Bill Cosby away entirely, canceling him entirely because
bad people can do good things, or vice versa. Good
people can do bad things. And you see, I'm struggling
with this, as as was Malcolm when he talked about it.
And now his relationship with Bill is far different from
what I know from watching someone on television. He will
(33:48):
say that man changed my life. He will say that
man gave me some of the best advice of my life.
He is a mentor someone that I hold in high regard.
I am aware of what is happening in the world,
and I am sad about what happened to those women,
But I do know that what this man did for
a period of time changed the trajectory for so many
(34:09):
of us in the culture. I can't emphasize enough. With
that show Met there was one episode and I talked
about it, with the one episode about the Gordon Gartrail.
Gordon Guard Trail, y'all remember that if you old enough,
you got to know about Gordon Gartrail. Here's the funny part.
The Gordon Guard Trail story is truly about how his
sister Denise wanted to make him a designer shirt for
(34:30):
a homecoming dance and he couldn't afford the Gordon Guard
Trail original but she was like, I'm gonna make it.
And it was the most awful, funny, exciting thing I
had ever seen. And I remember the episode like it
was yesterday. I will look when I worked at ESPN
with His and hers, we redid that episode a different world,
not necessarily that episode, but we redid a different world
(34:53):
based on our familiarity, the love that we had for
what those shows represented. Michael Smith dressed up for Halloween
one year with the Gordon Gartrail. It was amazing, And
again you have to realize it was just a moment.
It was a movement. And so I find myself with
these mixed emotions, but really standing more firm on the
(35:16):
side of protecting those who can protect themselves. But I
still never forget what that show meant to me and
why I still have such an affinity for those on
that show. And I'm saying it's okay to separate the two.
You're not saying one good thing doesn't mean bad things
didn't happen. I'm not saying because Bill Cosby put out
(35:38):
this amazing show and made sure that we knew about
HBCUs and black culture and black excellence, that he did
not harm these women. The two can't exist. Sadly, they
can coexist. But with that being said, I'd like to
talk about what I was able to birth from the
Cosby Show, and that was a level of excellence. And
(35:59):
I saw it week in and week out with our
guest today, malacoun Jamal Warner, and I said to him,
the poet that he is, who happens to act, would
he do be a favor? Would he allow us to
be blessed with one of his poems, and he knew
what we would be talking about. He knew what the
(36:21):
show is about, and he knew that people would have
mixed emotions about what he has to say about Bill Cosby.
But he had a beautiful reading which I'll leave you
all with, and it was specifically about the culture, and
it was beautiful because it is a.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You can do it? You will do well, inspiring poem
and inspiring reading, and I appreciate it. I'll leave you
all with that. And sometimes you know, on Naked I'm
not able to succinctly how I feel because I do
have mixed emotions, and I don't ever want to be
on record condemning someone for the rest of their lives
(37:07):
without adding the nuance that needs to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I hope I was able to do that for you
all today.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Enjoy the reading.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
It's been far too much time to keep crying about
how hard it is to be black in America. Yet
here we are tear streaked and salt stained faces, Traces
of trauma and pain lace our DNA like our black
pride is cut and laced with self hate, and we
still think it's dope, just like the music for program
(37:37):
to Celebrate. Can you tell me the fate of a
people who consciously take de bait and embrace the very
traits placed upon them by their captors, who by design,
are inclined to keep them believe in their second rate.
I'll wait. We used to fight for freedom, but now
(37:58):
it's like we fight for the right to be dumb
for free word to ice life. Hear me. We are
being hustled. We are being played our culture on display
like the slave trade, for the world to devour like
a delicious delicacy, while we are left to feed on
hopelessness and grief and the belief that beef with people
who look just like us should render them obsolete. Hey, great,
(38:21):
kool aid tastes great until you realize this sweetened with
self destruction and low self esteem. The system has been
set up to shut us out. We are being robbed
because we are rich. How many thieves you know bother
to break into an empty house, but we are pushed
(38:42):
into prisons of hopelessness and fear. Look around, family, Look around, family,
Look around family. We got to get out of here.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So again, I hope that this beautiful brother rest in
heaven and heavenly peace. Thank you, Malcolm Jamal Warner for
what you gave us. Sending love to his family so
terrific what happened to him, But all we can do
now is honor him and lift his family up. Thank
(39:15):
you for listening to this edition of Naked Sports. Naked
Sports written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion, produced
by Jacques Thomas, sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast
Network in iHeartMedia
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what
we've been trying to get.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
To for almost thirty years.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.
Caitlinquar broke the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, family, Welcome to another
(00:53):
edition of Naked Sports Today. I am doing a replay intentionally,
I am doing a replay of an interview that I
did with Malcolm Jamal Warner in January of twenty twenty two.
Let me set the scene, because we were still at
the very tail end of COVID. People were just now
(01:13):
starting to get back to work. Some people still were
working from home, and things were just different. There were
still a lot of uncertainty, but we were starting to
transition from being in the house to being back outside.
And let me tell you, I think I might want
to go back in the house. That's just me. But
when I interviewed him, he had a new show and
he was promoting that new show. But I had to
(01:36):
talk to him about a lot of things, his legacy,
his life, his career, his family, and now that he
is no longer with us, the stories that he shared
with me seemed so much more powerful, especially the stories
about his daughter, who was then at the time, I
believe five years old. And for those who have been
(01:57):
keeping up with the news, Malcolm Jamal Warner when he
was on vacation with his family in Costa Rica, we
didn't really know anything about what happened because the family
is letting the details out bit by bit. But we
do know now that he was swimming with his eight
year old daughter who was rescued, and sadly, when they
(02:17):
tried to rescue Malcolm, he had already passed away. They
tried to resuscitate him, from my understanding, for forty five minutes.
There were lifeguards there, volunteer lifeguards. They are trying to
help him, at least resuscitate him in some former fashion,
and they tried their best to no end. Now I
don't know the particulars in terms of what his daughter saw,
but I have to imagine if they were swimming together,
(02:40):
she too witnessed what happened, and I can't even imagine
the trauma that that will lay out in her life
because of that, and if in fact she'll ever be
able to get over it. My prayer is that this
entire family, his friends, his fans for that matter, are
able to have some sort of resolve. I'm sending healing energy.
(03:02):
And the reason why I'm having a hard time with
my words is because for me, which I did discuss
in this podcast back in twenty twenty two, Malcolm Jamal
Warner was everyone's boyfriend. I had a crush on him.
I was a kid. I was like, well, if I
had a boyfriend, I would want him to be like that.
He was the perfect kid on The Cosby Show, and
for that matter, the Cosby Show meant so much to me.
(03:23):
I say this to anyone, especially the younger generation, go
back and watch the Cosby Show. It's okay to watch
The Cosby Show. Even though people tried to cancel Bill Cosby,
he still put something on television. He still gave us
something creatively that allowed us to realize and dream. He
highlighted HBCUs, He made sure we knew about them. He
(03:45):
promoted going to school, most importantly going to an HBCU.
He was a real advocate for the black family, and
that's what The Cosby Show represented. Outside of who he
was off the screen, he on television forward facing encouraged
us to be more as a culture. And I respect that.
(04:05):
I know that many of you have canceled him because
of the allegations, and I know he went to jail
and has since been released, etc.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Etc.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
But in today's times, and I think even recently thinking
of Diddy, there is a part of us that has
to separate the art from the artist. That doesn't mean
that we excuse their behavior, but that also means I
can appreciate their art because it did something for me,
narrated my childhood in terms of Ditty's music and what
(04:33):
he gave back to the culture, and even Diddy as
a human working with him in certain instances an amazing person.
So I say all that to say during this episode
of Naked this replay, you'll hear Malcolm Jamal Warner talk
about Bill Cosby in a very affectionate way, And to me,
I thought it was special because that's what that man
(04:54):
meant to him, and he had come to peace with
what the allegations were and who that man was for him,
and they were two different people.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You know, I watched the show now and I think
about people who can't watch the show because they can't
watch the show and not think about everything else. And
you know, obviously that's not my experience, but that's got
to suck for those people. And then it just it
(05:26):
also sucks because you know, it's such a wonderful show
it showed.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
So sit back, relax and enjoyed this replay of Naked
Sports with Malcolm Jamal Warner. But truly listen to this
man because he meant so much to a generation of
people who were just trying to figure out what the
future would be and what black men stood for and
what black life could look like for us. No one
(05:51):
that I have ever met has anything bad to say
about this man. He's genuinely a good soul. So I'm
sitting again, love, healing and peace, to his family, celebrate
his life and honor his legacy. We appreciate y'all for listening.
Our guests today, Our guests today. Malcolm Jamal Warner. Now,
(06:13):
if you were like me, and I did mention this
to him, if you're like me, I had a hardcore
crush on THEO when he was on The Cosby Show.
He was everybody's boyfriend. He's fifty one years old now,
but he still looked like THEO from The Cosby Show.
And here's the even better news about Malcolm Jamal Warner.
He is truly solid. You often hear that child stars
(06:37):
have all these issues and they never come around and
they can't settle themselves. And you've seen the horror stories
of child stars, right. He literally grew up on TV
and he credits his parents, his mother, people around him
with that sensibility that helped him understand that you need
to be on a straight and narrow you could see
how it could go the other way in this crazy
(06:59):
talent called Hollywood. He has a show now called The Resident.
I don't know if you guys watch it. He loves
it because he gets to play a jerk and he's like,
this is my favorite part I'm a doctor that's a
jerk because he's naturally a good guy. It sounds that way.
I don't know him well, but it seems that way,
and so this is fun for him. Now, let me
not bury the lead. Let me just be honest with you, guys.
(07:21):
There's a generation of people right now that I am
friendly with that probably didn't understand the significance of the
Cosby Show. Right you young gins, maybe in your twenties,
didn't understand the significance of the Cosby Show. And I'm
gonna be really serious for a moment for black people,
it was life changing for a little girl like me.
It was life changing to see Felicia Rashad, who was
(07:43):
an attorney on the show, right Theo's mom, Claire Huxtable
giving you character names. To watch her in all her elegance,
and I remember there was an episode two where she
was speaking fluent Spanish.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
I was like, huh uh done.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Look at this beautiful black woman, elegant, smart, loving, a mother,
a wife. It was foreign to me. It really was
not that my mother wasn't all of those things, but
this woman carried a certain genes aquad that everyone could
just see and it leaped off the camera and then
her husband was this amazing doctor and they lived in
(08:21):
this big house and their kids were great and amazing,
and in my mind, I was like, oh the American dream.
That show for me described the American dream for black folks.
Did y'all feel that way? So you have to understand
that when Bill Cosby went to jail and all the
stories come out about how he was raping women, he
(08:46):
would be holding them hostage, and these are all things
that he was found guilty of, he became sadly a
pariah and it then changed the significance of the Cosby
Show for another generation, but not for me. And I
(09:06):
have to tell you that because that image of seeing
black excellence was first really for me personified on the
Cosby Show. I know people feel a way about Bill
and think away about Bill Hell. I'm not going to
spare and tell you that I don't, but I do
want you to understand. On this episode we get into it.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I don't go.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Too deep, but I ask them about Bill Cosby and
his relationship, and you have to understand that there is
nuance here and you can put things in different buckets
and they can be mutually exclusive and two things can
be true at once. I hope that makes sense. We
start off talking to Malcolm Jamal Warner about his career,
(09:48):
about being a child star and how he was able
to survive. Welcome back from the holidays, and welcome to
this edition of Naked. Here's Malcolm Jamal Warner on start.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I mean, Charon and Kerry chap and Karrie Shelly.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
When I was, you know, when I was growing up
and during that whole time, there was so much of
that attention that I, uh, you know, I just took
for granted like it's it's automatic. And it was one
of the things that that gave me a very grounded
perspective on the whole celebrity thing because I understood, well,
(10:29):
anyone who has a TV show out, a hit movie
or hot song, they're going to get this same reaction
or they do get the same reaction from women. So
you know, I always kind of I always kept in
perspective because I got okay, that goes along with the territory.
(10:49):
Whereas now though I still holde that that's true, but
you know, it's not a you know, because now I'm
dealing with you, I'm I'm an adult. A lot of
that fan base, you know, are adults as well, So
it doesn't my reception of it now, I don't take
(11:11):
it as oh, just you know, uh, it's just a
teenage fan thing. Like now, I feel like people who
who watch my work and enjoy what I do and
have grown with me. It feels more substantive, if that
makes sense. You know. The reality is I have been
(11:33):
on television, uh, since I was eleven years old, you know,
you know, I'm very conscious of the whole the whole thing,
you know, and and and especially during that time, when
you know, it's it was the norm for a kid
(11:53):
in this business who is highly recognizable to just be
off the chain and the and with that you have
to go back to the parents. So I was very Look,
there's a lot of work I've done myself, but I
was very fortunate to have really wonderful parents and a
mother who had no space to get caught up in
(12:17):
the trappings of Hollywood or trappings of success, because her
you know, her main thing was, well, when this show
was over, because this show can be over next year,
what are you going to do? What are you going
to do? I put one hundred percent of the responsible
of the parental responsibility on the parent because a lot
(12:38):
of times the parent will live vicariously through the kid.
So if the parent has gotten caught up and has
gone Hollywood, then there's no one there to give guidance
and direction to the kid. And I'd say in you know,
I do not know of a case where the parents
(13:01):
did their one hundred percent parenting and the kids still
came out wayward.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Kudos to those who helped raise Malcolm because the village
that has kept him in the right frame of mind
and obviously gainfully employed in a very fickle town called Hollywood,
has done an amazing job. You know, child stars, we've
seen the stories, right, they don't last song, they overdose,
they turn into people that can't get jobs because they've
(13:30):
never really been anything else but a child star, so
they don't have a skill set, I mean all of
the things. And Malcolm, it's not that person. And I
asked him about what he learned about being a child star,
and he said, you know, he learned a lot from
Bill Cosby into the two words that people don't like
to say that you can't mention in public. There are
some people who have been quote unquote canceled and there is,
(13:52):
as I mentioned earlier, a generation of people who only
know Cosby has the subject of a highly, highly publicized
rape accusations. You're right, I'm having a hard time even
getting it out. I'm trying to be careful with my words.
But the reality is is that Bill Cosby has been
accused by famous and non famous women of basically giving
(14:16):
them drugs, drugging them and then raping them. Sexual battery,
sexual misconduct. All of these things have been talked about
for years, but quietly no one's really done anything about it.
But right around that Me Too movement, they were calling
up receipts and he was one of the people that
they went after, and as you well know, he went
(14:38):
to jail. He was in jail, however, got out on
a technicality because he was charged with the crime that
he shouldn't have been charged with. Right. I'm paraphrasing, and
I don't know all the particulars, but I do know
that Bill Cosby, for many of you all, has become
a name that you can't say in public or even
say that you like the Cosby Show. When I was
growing up, the Cosme Show reruns would be ond all
(15:00):
day long, right, and it was a thing of I
mean to me, it was an honor.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Did you guys watch a Cosby show? Oh, you were
a part of the Cosby Show.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Bill Cosby's a great man, Felicia Shad's a great woman,
all of the things. And now it's tight. So I
asked Malcolm, as I dance around this with y'all, I asked, Malcolm,
how does it feel not to be able to talk
to someone you consider a mentor and someone who was
(15:31):
pivotal in changing your life?
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Bunny, I've never said this publicly before. It fucking sucks.
Like it sucks like I watch my daughter's four, and uh,
you know, she's discovered the Cosby Show or she she
calls it Rudy's Family, and she knows this me. She's like,
that's Papa, Like she knows this me. But she has
(15:54):
no interest in THEO. She wants to fast forward through
my scenes so she can see Rudy or Olivia. And
it's so so one. It's very surreal watching the show
with my daughter and being able to, now that I'm
so far removed from the show, be able to enjoy
it as a viewer and not judging or you know,
(16:16):
critiquing my work. I can just be a viewer and
you know, watch the show from that perspective, and so
that's surreal in itself, watching with my daughter. But you know,
I watched the show now and I think about people
who can't watch the show because they can't watch the
show and not think about everything else. And you know,
(16:41):
obviously that's not my experience, but that's got to suck
for those people. And then it just it also sucks
because you know, it's such a wonderful show. It's such
a you know, I don't have to you know, I
don't have to know anything about the show. We all
know what the show is. So it sucks that, you know,
(17:07):
for a lot of people experiencing the show doesn't have
the same experience. You know, I may, you know, if
I'm talking to you know, whether it's whether it's an
interview or I'm having a conversation with someone, and there
might be a you know, a story that comes up,
like even you know, just you know, simply you know,
mister Cosby talking about it's a marathon, not a sprint,
(17:29):
like those gyms, and often when I have those you know,
when when I have those gyms or are wecall those
gyms in conversation, you know, I always credit the source,
you know, from which I got it. So there was
a time where in conversations I would probably avoid, you know,
either giving the gym or you know, saying where I
(17:51):
got it from. Whereas now I don't really, you know,
I don't care to avoid it because it takes too
much of my energy to tiptoe around something because I'm
not quite sure how this person is going to receive it.
Like at this point, I don't I don't care, like
I don't care what you you know, what your opinion is,
(18:13):
because it doesn't matter, just like my opinion at the
end of the day doesn't matter, you know. So at
this point it's just something. You know, it is what
it is, and you know I don't I don't try
away from it. I don't try to sweep it under
the rug. I don't throw under the bus. I don't
(18:33):
defend you know. It is what it is, and we
all know what it is. Yeah, and if you want
to have authentic conversations, you know, then yeah you have
you have you can't tiptoe around it. And then and
then it also it kind of you know, for me,
it kind of gets straight to the point like, you know,
(18:55):
let's talk about this topic so we can see where
each other is and we can we can move from.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The well that had to be tough, right and it
still has to be tough. When the Cosby allegations became
public and it was well known to the world that
Bill Cosby was fighting for his life essentially and going
to jail ultimately now released, Malcolm has said it over
(19:20):
and over again. He was like, it's hard not to
say that the legacy of Bill Cosby and the Cosby
Show has not been tarnished. That was one of his responses. However,
Rudy on the show said something really smart. Keisha Knight Pullam,
when interviewed and talked about Bill Cosby, she said, I'm
going to tell you why it's not tarnished, and I'm
(19:41):
paraphrasing what Bill Cosby did for HBCUs because they were
always highlighted on The Cosby Show, and what he did
for the culture and what images he presented, true or false.
Images he presented were always the gold standard. They were
always of black excellence in front of the camera, and
(20:02):
so for that, we do understand that there was something
special there. However, we are where we are today, and
men can't be heroes. That's the way that I feel
about it. Men can't always be heroes men or women
in that sense. We're normal humans. We make mistakes, we
(20:22):
do things wrong, we commit egregious crimes, we have evil hearts.
The list goes on, and it's sad that someone who
was so well revered is now essentially an isolation, shunned
from society. And I quite frankly understand why, and I
understand why Malcolm still holds him in a different space.
(20:46):
But he also knows that there was wrong that was done,
and that's why I was trying to tell you. The
two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they can be.
Moving on to the pain endemic.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
So we shoot the resident in Atlanta, uh and UH
normally over high. So we'll shoot from July to April,
and then normally from you know, the end of April
to you know, beginning of July. We'll go back to
LA and be home. So when the pandemic happened, our
daughter was two, you know, turning three, and with the
(21:26):
whole you know, the whole mass situation, the whole unknown,
we decided we were not going to go back to
Los Angeles because it just didn't Neither one of us
could imagine trying to be on a four and a
half hour flight with a toddler who's not going to
keep a mask on and wants to touch everything and
put everything in their mouth. So we, you know, we
said we're just gonna bite the bullet and stay in Atlanta.
(21:49):
And you know, our you know, our friends, our family,
our life is in La So being in Atlanta and
you know, during this uh, you know, the whole show
down in quarantine situation, it gave the three of us, know,
just wonderful time to be together and be a family.
(22:13):
And you know, my daughters used to me going to
work and being home all day, I mean you being
at work all day. So for her, she was in
sheer heaven because she had Mama and Papa all day
every day. So when she woke up at seven point thirty,
bleary eye, saying, Papa, play with me, Play with me, Papa,
(22:35):
and literally because we did it, we weren't using it
and Nanny right, So literally from seven thirty in the
morning where she woke up till eight thirty, at nine
o'clock at night, may, oh my god, we went and
got an above the ground pool because we couldn't go
(22:55):
to the splash pad anymore. So we made it work
and it was It was a beautiful time just for
us to to bond and be able to and you know,
I'm even when I'm working, I'm I'm a very present
husband and father, but too, you know, be able to
be that twenty four to seven and not have to,
(23:18):
you know, go off to work and be at work
all day was beautiful. And then I also realized how
much going to work was an escape for I had.
But with that, I had nowhere to go, and you know,
and I had I had a record I was trying
to finish. It's gonna be my quarantine, you know project.
(23:40):
But you know, I'm I'm always faced with this. You know.
My daughter's like, Papa, don't play bass, play with me,
you know, And I'm like, Okay, you know what, this
bass will always be here. She's not going to always
before asking me to play with her. So, you know,
it's it's been great for our family.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
We got to pay some bills Malcolm Jamal Warner more
from him on the other side of the break be
back in a.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Moment every champion and Cary champion is to be a champion,
a champion, and Cary Chappion and carry chap Beata champion
and carry Chappi and carried chaffyfraid is entertainment.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Getting naked word.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Every champion and carry Chappy is to be a champion,
a champion, and Carrid Champion, the girl a champion and
carried champion and Carrie Chappy afraid is entertainment.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Getting naked wart.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to naked Malcolm is still here,
sharing and blessing. I hope you enjoy so Over the pandemic,
I asked, Malcolm, you know, obviously how are you doing?
But what did you do when he talked about working
on his music and his poetry and his spoken word
and what it meant to him and how important it was. Now,
I don't know about you, but I was today years
(24:54):
old when I realized that he has several albums like
he is truly a poet h And he said, especially
during the pandemic, he was able to talk about what
a lot of us were feeling using his poetry, especially
for the culture, how painful it was. And then I
asked him, I said, so, what do you enjoy the most,
(25:14):
and he says to me, Actually, I am a poet
who happened to be an actor.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I'm a poet, I'm a bass player, I'm a poet.
I I have a jazz funk spoken word band called
Miles Long. We got three CDs out. I wanted to
gram me in twenty fifteen with Leyla Hathaway and Robert Glasper.
Poetry has always been just a huge part of my expression.
(25:39):
My dad went to Lincoln with Gil, Scott Herron and
Brian Jackson, so I literally came out the womb listening
to Gil and listening to last poets. My father went
to Lincoln because Langston went to Lincoln. So just from
my early childhood, poetry was always a part of my expression.
(26:03):
And when spoken words started to become, you know, start
to take shape again in the early nineties, I was
very active in the underground spoken word movement in Los Angeles,
and you know, you know, I know there are there
are a lot of you know, celebrities who could kind
of do poetry and are into poetry, but I you know,
(26:25):
I always make the disclaimer that I am a poet.
I'm not a celebrity who does poetry. You know, I
spent uh, you know, in early nineties, you know, and
it was before before spoken worre became cool, Like it
was just you know, just just before that. I say,
we helped make it cool. But you know, I mean
(26:45):
I spent countless nights in poetry spots, always writing, you know,
always workshopping my poetry. Whenever I, you know, would be
in a different town, I find the I find the
poetry venues and make sure I go there to work out.
You know, poetry has just always been so it wasn't
like you know, this fat that caught on and you
(27:08):
know I started doing it. It was you know, it's
always been a huge part, I keep saying, a huge
part of my expression because it allows me to express
myself in ways that I can't as an actor or
as a director. I don't think not even I mean,
I know every celebrity who does poetry, you know, has
not gone through, uh, you know, through that kind of
(27:31):
grind that poets go through. You know. It's not just
uh you know, it's not just booking a feature and
not that, not that there are a lot of celebrities
who can actually do a feature set. But I just
don't I don't know of a lot of celebrity why
I'm why, I'm a wh I'm a blanking right now,
(27:52):
am Amar Hardwick. So Amar, I I knew A Mari
as a poet before I knew he was an actor. Yeah,
because I'd see him in La and we'd be at
we'd be at these venues, and I always knew Amari
as like this really dope poet, like this dude is fire.
And then I happened to back when there were still DVD's.
(28:14):
I remember seeing some straight to DVD movie with Cuba
Bidding Junior, and I saw picture of Omar. I was like, oh,
Mari's in this so I you know, I rented it
put in and I was like, oh, Omari is an actor.
I was like, oh, He's not just a dope poet,
(28:36):
He's an actor. So so not that there aren't other
you know, celebrities who have you know, put in the
work whatever, but Omari is the only other person I
know who has who who who goes in?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I know for a while what what Harris also he
would be you know, uh he was known for you know,
going out and workshopping his stuff as well.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's interesting because you know, we are quote unquote still
in a pandemic, right, We still are in the panorama,
as the folks call it, but we are as normal
as we can be. This is a part of our lives.
And Malcolm has been flourishing prior to you and still
in terms of working, he's on a show called The Resident.
He plays a doctor who is not necessarily well liked
(29:26):
because he is really arrogant and he knows what he's
doing and he's the best in his profession. And he
is this guy who really, you know, kind of get
some people's nerves, if you will, right rubs them the
wrong way. But I find it interesting, especially when I
speak to actors who love these types of roles, not
necessarily a villain, but a departure from whom they are
in real life. And he talks about why he loves
(29:49):
being on this show. And the reason why I think
it's important that we highlight Malcolm working is because then
I've said this from the beginning. Child stars do not
have careers that last long, especially in into the camera.
I can count on my hand how many people that
I am familiar with right that are doing this successfully
and at a high level. And Malcolm is one of
(30:10):
a few, and I'm sure there are others. But when
I tell you, it is hard to do in a
town that is so fickle, and they don't like you
when you get north of a certain age, or they
don't like you if you're not the it person. He
really talks about who you are as an actor, your
skill set, and why people like working with you. So
hats off, kudos because you are thriving. Take a list
(30:31):
in your alln So I guess, I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
For some viewers who have not seen the show. The
Resident is a medical drama. I play doctor aj Austen,
one of the top thoracic surgeons in the country. And
what I love about playing this character is he's a dick.
(30:53):
He's brash. He is very arrogant because he's one of
the best at what he does. But he's not arrogant
out of overcompensating. He's just he's arrogant because he knows
that he is the best at what he does. When
(31:15):
he speaks, he does not care for He's always gonna
speak the truth, so he does not care how the
truth lands on one. It's the truth and you deal
with it. He's a guy who just does not care
what people think of him, which has been wonderful for
me to play because I often say that playing AJ
(31:39):
allows me to be who I don't allow myself to
be in real life. And it's been great. It's been great.
It's been it's been a really good journey. And when
I started the show I was only supposed to do.
I was only on for the last three episodes of
season one and it's season five and I'm still there.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Congratulations to Malcolm Jamal Warner Forever theo huxible to me,
I am sorry. I know you hate that because I
don't want somebody saying, here you forever the sports girl.
I have other interest of the things to do. But
what I love about the Cosby Show, and I'm going
to go back to that because i really want to
be clear, even though I'm not necessarily clear. If I'm
being honest, I know that that show was woefully important
(32:23):
to me growing up. It was what late eighties, early nineties,
and to see the images of powerful black excellence week
in and week out, I believe put me on a
different trajectory and help me dream even bigger. And you
know I love a dream. Felicia Rashad Bill Cosby, Lisa Bonet,
(32:44):
Malcolm Jamal Warner. They were part of my home. They
defined how I looked at black success, a different world
based on HBCU's Cosby's invention. We really have been living
our lives through them for so long, and here we
are today where there is a generation of folks who
(33:05):
only know Bill Cosby as a man who spent time
in jail and has been accused of raping and sexually
assaulting women and women and women over the years. It's unfortunate.
Two things are unfortunate, because I do believe most of
the women it's unfortunate that that happened to them, and
I am sorry. What I also have a problem with, though,
(33:26):
is throwing Bill Cosby away entirely, canceling him entirely because
bad people can do good things, or vice versa. Good
people can do bad things. And you see, I'm struggling
with this, as as was Malcolm when he talked about it.
And now his relationship with Bill is far different from
what I know from watching someone on television. He will
(33:48):
say that man changed my life. He will say that
man gave me some of the best advice of my life.
He is a mentor someone that I hold in high regard.
I am aware of what is happening in the world,
and I am sad about what happened to those women,
But I do know that what this man did for
a period of time changed the trajectory for so many
(34:09):
of us in the culture. I can't emphasize enough. With
that show Met there was one episode and I talked
about it, with the one episode about the Gordon Gartrail.
Gordon Guard Trail, y'all remember that if you old enough,
you got to know about Gordon Gartrail. Here's the funny part.
The Gordon Guard Trail story is truly about how his
sister Denise wanted to make him a designer shirt for
(34:30):
a homecoming dance and he couldn't afford the Gordon Guard
Trail original but she was like, I'm gonna make it.
And it was the most awful, funny, exciting thing I
had ever seen. And I remember the episode like it
was yesterday. I will look when I worked at ESPN
with His and hers, we redid that episode a different world,
not necessarily that episode, but we redid a different world
(34:53):
based on our familiarity, the love that we had for
what those shows represented. Michael Smith dressed up for Halloween
one year with the Gordon Gartrail. It was amazing, And
again you have to realize it was just a moment.
It was a movement. And so I find myself with
these mixed emotions, but really standing more firm on the
(35:16):
side of protecting those who can protect themselves. But I
still never forget what that show meant to me and
why I still have such an affinity for those on
that show. And I'm saying it's okay to separate the two.
You're not saying one good thing doesn't mean bad things
didn't happen. I'm not saying because Bill Cosby put out
(35:38):
this amazing show and made sure that we knew about
HBCUs and black culture and black excellence, that he did
not harm these women. The two can't exist. Sadly, they
can coexist. But with that being said, I'd like to
talk about what I was able to birth from the
Cosby Show, and that was a level of excellence. And
(35:59):
I saw it week in and week out with our
guest today, malacoun Jamal Warner, and I said to him,
the poet that he is, who happens to act, would
he do be a favor? Would he allow us to
be blessed with one of his poems, and he knew
what we would be talking about. He knew what the
(36:21):
show is about, and he knew that people would have
mixed emotions about what he has to say about Bill Cosby.
But he had a beautiful reading which I'll leave you
all with, and it was specifically about the culture, and
it was beautiful because it is a.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You can do it? You will do well, inspiring poem
and inspiring reading, and I appreciate it. I'll leave you
all with that. And sometimes you know, on Naked I'm
not able to succinctly how I feel because I do
have mixed emotions, and I don't ever want to be
on record condemning someone for the rest of their lives
(37:07):
without adding the nuance that needs to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I hope I was able to do that for you
all today.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Enjoy the reading.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
It's been far too much time to keep crying about
how hard it is to be black in America. Yet
here we are tear streaked and salt stained faces, Traces
of trauma and pain lace our DNA like our black
pride is cut and laced with self hate, and we
still think it's dope, just like the music for program
(37:37):
to Celebrate. Can you tell me the fate of a
people who consciously take de bait and embrace the very
traits placed upon them by their captors, who by design,
are inclined to keep them believe in their second rate.
I'll wait. We used to fight for freedom, but now
(37:58):
it's like we fight for the right to be dumb
for free word to ice life. Hear me. We are
being hustled. We are being played our culture on display
like the slave trade, for the world to devour like
a delicious delicacy, while we are left to feed on
hopelessness and grief and the belief that beef with people
who look just like us should render them obsolete. Hey, great,
(38:21):
kool aid tastes great until you realize this sweetened with
self destruction and low self esteem. The system has been
set up to shut us out. We are being robbed
because we are rich. How many thieves you know bother
to break into an empty house, but we are pushed
(38:42):
into prisons of hopelessness and fear. Look around, family, Look around, family,
Look around family. We got to get out of here.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So again, I hope that this beautiful brother rest in
heaven and heavenly peace. Thank you, Malcolm Jamal Warner for
what you gave us. Sending love to his family so
terrific what happened to him, But all we can do
now is honor him and lift his family up. Thank
(39:15):
you for listening to this edition of Naked Sports. Naked
Sports written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion, produced
by Jacques Thomas, sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.
Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast
Network in iHeartMedia
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