August 18, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of Naked Sports, we’re back on the mic! Welcoming listeners in and setting the tone with a quick reflection on those recent re-aired episodes, including the one honoring Malcolm Jamal Warner and another spotlighting the rise of the new pro women’s volleyball league.
Cari shares a bit about her time in Martha’s Vineyard, not just the beauty of the trip, but the meaning behind that place. The history. The energy. The community. All of it left Cari feeling recharged and ready to return for this important interview.
The spotlight shifts to your incredible guest — Erin Haynes, the newly elected president of the NABJ. Cari and Errin discuss what it means to be a Black journalist right now. We call it what it is: wartime journalism. Errin doesn’t hold back on the challenges facing the industry, from hiring inequities to the rise of disinformation, and why advocacy, community, and truth-telling matter more than ever.
Cari and Erin get real about the stakes for journalism, for democracy, and for Black voices in media. She leaves listeners with a call to action: stand with NABJ, support the storytellers, and recognize the urgency of this moment.
Connect @CariChampion @EMarvelous
Learn More: National Association for Black Journalism
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
and is basketball right now? Is what we've been trying
to get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums
where athlete to break barriers and set records. Caitlin Quark
(01:09):
broke the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hello, everyone, Welcome back to
(01:41):
Naked Sports. I am here in studio recording. I think
I took about two weeks off. We re aired two
podcasts that I really love, so thank you all for
supporting us. One was Malcolm Jamal Warner. The other was
about love, the new Volleyball League, the new professional women's
Volleyball League, and the reason why I like to give
(02:03):
you guys an update. Obviously the Malcolm Jamal Warner news.
No one was prepared for that. It was really unfortunate,
and that was a way in which I wanted to
pay respect to someone who I believe narrated parts of
my childhood. Really sad, but I was so overjoyed with
the way that the culture truly honored him. And we
(02:28):
saw all of these wonderful messages and people reaching out,
and I thought that was beautiful to show what an
impact he had on so many of us. I last week,
the reason why we had a reair went to Martha's Vineyard,
and that is where I want to begin. Folks, if
you haven't been to Martha's Vineyard, I know for me,
(02:48):
I grew up on the West Coast. I didn't know
much about Martha's Vineyard. It didn't even really feel like
a real place for me. And the first time I
went was probably three years ago. And when I tell you,
it was such a beautiful experience, I had to have
that over and over again. And this is how I
will explain Martha's Vineyard for those who are watching. Oak
(03:09):
Bluff's historically was a place where black people could go.
It was only beach. In fact, when it was segregated
where black people could go, and over the years it
has become a destination for everyone, but more specifically for
the culture. And it is such a beautiful place. And
I try to explain it to my friends, especially those
(03:31):
who've never been, but more specifically those on the West Coast,
because it's so hard to get to Martha's Vineyard. It's
a small island, not far from Nantucket or other islands
that you've heard of, sag Harbor, the Hampton's, all these
special little areas right that you hear about on the
East Coast, and it exists in its own way, and
(03:53):
it feels like I am taking a trip back to
another land. It feels like Happy Days when I say
Happy Days. That was a television show. I know many
of you may not know about it, but it feels
like it's just not real. We are in the Wizard
of Oz if you will. It's because when you get there,
(04:13):
time doesn't exist. You're not on the clock. You're walking around,
you're riding bikes to the beach, You're saying hi to
your neighbors. This is the best way to describe it
and the reason why I am talking about it. I
would love for all of you to have the same
experience that I had. Usually, August is the time in
(04:35):
which all the folks, the black folks show up there. Right,
it's a special. They have the film Festival and different
people come and present their films like mar bracka Kill
or I know that I saw Dave Chappelle. He has
a documentary out and he was there. It is not
only that they have the film Festival in August, but
what it does do is create a community that I
(04:56):
don't think exists when we are in our day to
day live. I say, when I land on the island
and I get situated, right, whether it be at a
hotel or some people rent houses. A bunch of folks
normally rent houses as a community. Right, You'll go to
a house and there's like ten people staying in a house,
but it's set for that. That's the vibe of the
whole place. Like a camp, it's an adult camp. It
(05:20):
immediately relaxes my nervous system. And I'm not going to
get into the particulars of all the things that you
can do while you're there, because it can be quite stimulating,
if not overstimulating, because there's always an event and there's
always something happening, and there's always this, and there's always that.
You don't have to do any of that. But what
(05:41):
I do like the relaxing aspect of it is that
imagine doing yoga at six am in the morning. They
have something at the beach known as ink Well. They
had a whole movie about ink Well. Go watch ink Well.
You know what I'm talking about. And people go there
and they do yoga at six am in the morning.
You get done with yoga, and you walk down the
street and you say hi to people you don't even know,
(06:02):
and it's just so much love because your nervous system
is so calm. There's a quote that says, make sure
that you keep people around you that relax your nervous
system so you're not anxious or uptight or constantly feeling
like you have to get to work. And that's what
Martha's Vineyard does for me specifically. And I encourage everyone,
(06:25):
if not just spend a couple of days there. I
know it sounds like it might be out of reach
and it's expensive, it's not. If you plan ahead, everyone
can do it. It's open to all, and it's something
that I would love for us to experience culturally. Now,
with that being said, I missed in ABJ National Association
of Black Journalists. They have an event every year. Obviously,
(06:51):
people come together and they're all journalists, primarily black journalists.
Perhaps you're looking for a job and you get to
meet with the from corporations that show up. CNN shows up,
local news outlets show up. Different representatives from these companies
show up, and the idea is to one either get
(07:11):
a job, network or talk about plans to change the
world as journalists. I wanted to be a journalist because
I realized and I couldn't articulate articulate it this way
when I was a kid. But I wanted to be
a journalist because I knew there was this moral responsibility,
(07:33):
not obligation, but responsibility to be a watchdog in society.
And I wish there was another term for watchdog. It
simply means I felt as if treating people unfairly couldn't
exist in the world that I lived in, and how
could I help participate without outside of being an attorney,
outside of being an activist, outside of being a doctor
(07:56):
who knows there are many ways in which you can
make sure people are being treated fairly. I chose journalism,
and when I joined INNABJ, it was such a special
moment for me. And every year when they have NABJ events,
and I don't know why, I'm struggling to find the
actual I would like to say, summit, right, are you
(08:17):
going to NABJ When they have this every year, they
have it in different cities. This year, it just so
happens it fell in the week where I was going
to be in Martha's vineyard, so I wasn't able to attend. However,
I did participate in the elections. They elect a president,
(08:37):
they elect a treasurer, they elect various council members, cabinet
members for NABJ, And today I have the pleasure of
interviewing the newly elected president of the National Association of
Black Journalists. Her name Aaron Haynes. She is my friend,
(09:04):
but she's also metam president, and I'm so excited to
have her on the podcast to talk about it in ABJ,
to talk about the role of journalism because, as you know,
in today's age, it is very difficult to speak truth
to power, to feel as if your job will be
protected if you say something that doesn't necessarily feel fair.
(09:27):
Or accurate to this current administration. We're seeing it left
and right. Journalists are being let go, they're being fired.
They're honestly afraid to do their jobs. And she has
a huge task, and that is how do you rally
the troops? How do you keep journalists in a space
where they want to report the truth if not for
fear of losing their job. I mean, that's a tough
(09:49):
space to be in. I called it wartime journalism, meaning
like we're at war. Wherever we are right now, we
are at war. And I'm not like, it may not
feel physical to you, but we are. It may not
feel like life threatening to you, but we are. Whenever
your civil liberties are being threatened, that is war. And
So today my friend, journalist Aaron Haynes' newly elected president
(10:15):
of NABJ, will join us and talk to us about
the task ahead and what her plans are. Thank you
so much for listening to this edition of Naked Sports.
We'll be back in just a few moments.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm Aaron Haynes, editor at Large at the nineteenth and
the twenty fourth president of the National Association of Black Journalists.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Congratulations, how are you?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Thank you, my friend listen, I feel wonderful. I feel
excited to get started, but also not a moment too
soon for our profession and for our democracy and for
all the things.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
There is a lot to cover. First and foremost, for
those who are listening and they're not familiar with NABJ
National Association of Black Journalists, in which you are the
twenty fourth president, mad Damn President, address her accordingly. Tell
everyone what NABJ stands for in terms of what is
the inception of the actual group and why we have
(11:27):
a convention every year.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely, what it stands for and what we stand for.
So NABJ is the National Association of Black Journalists. We
are the oldest, We are the largest advocacy organization for
journalists of color. We are celebrating our fiftieth anniversary. In
nineteen seventy five, forty four bold black journalists came together
and said that our stories were not going to be raised,
that our journalists were not going to be silenced. And
(11:50):
we have been fighting ever since for diverse representation in
America's newsrooms and fighting for our stories, which we know
are part of the American story. So every year we
come together thousands strong to celebrate and also to learn
the craft and to grow the next generation of black journalists.
And now I could not be prouder to be leading
(12:11):
us into our next fifty years.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Amen. Amen, Amen. But let me tell you this. If
someone's listening and they think that they have to be
in front of the camera type journalists or they have
to be a writer journalists, explain to them in terms
of the advocacy that exists, you don't need to necessarily
be someone who is presenting to be a part of ANAPJ.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, no, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean, look, there are so many ways to show
up as a black journalist, as people who are shaping
this narrative about our country. Yes, folks like you who
have been you know, on air, as anchors, as those
on air reporters. I spent most of my career as
a print journalists. Now you know, some of you may
see me sometimes on MSNBC talking about politics, talking about
race and gender. But you know, there are so many
(12:55):
folks behind the scenes, the producers, the editors that make
this happen. These folks are also essential to the storytelling,
and they are also under attack, and they are also
woefully underrepresented in our industry. So you know, I have
to say the fight facing black journalists now could not
be more urgent. We're in this political climate where you
(13:15):
have just increasing hostility towards all journalists, but especially those
that are focused on race, or inequality or democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
You've got disinformation.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I mean, those folks behind the scenes are working to
push back against disinformation, just like those of us who
are using our platforms to try to prevent that from happening,
because we know that that's disproportionately affecting our folks, right.
And then the industry pressure is the layoffs, the shrinking
local newsrooms, the backsliding on DEI, all of that is
also affecting black journalists, whether they are in front of
the camera, not in front of the camera, have a byline,
(13:46):
we don't know their names. Like all of us are
under attack right now, and our jobs and our stories
are under threat.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Which leads me to my next question. Because as I'm
doing the intro, and I was having a hard time
finding my words because I wanted you to have everything,
and I'm like the convention, the meeting, I'm like, there's
this convention that we have every year, and normally people
would go to the convention to find a job. Still
the case to network, but there is to your point,
(14:12):
and we're under attack. The fourth State is under attack.
And I wonder why you at this time decided I'm
stepping up. This is what I need to do. I
need to rally the troops, if you will. I need
to get a cohesive plan put together so that we
can push back with the narrative and the misinformation and
(14:34):
the firing of black journalists.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I mean, look, I think for me, I came into
this year with such a tremendous sense of urgency around
this moment in our democracy and this moment in our profession.
And I'm looking around and I'm seeing that people were
not responding. There was not a pushback to what we
were seeing, the attacks on journalism, the attacks on the truth,
the attacks against frankly Black America, and so really, you know,
(15:00):
as I thought about what my best and highest use
in this moment as a journalist, as a member of
our beloved organization was, this is really where I landed.
And when I thought about, you know, what I wanted
to do in this role, Like, the question for me
was not if an ABJ was going to respond it,
but really it was just how boldly can we lead? So,
(15:20):
I mean advocacy. That was the spirit that the founders
came together in nineteen seventy five, standing up against censorship,
calling out under representation, pushing for you know, equitable hiring.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
We have to do that. But also like.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Equipping journalists with tools for the future, like what does
it mean for black journalists to be impacted by AI?
But also shape helping to shape AI going forward. And
I mean, you know, Carrie, I know, I don't have
to tell you, like black women's leadership in this moment
could not be more important, despite what anybody else might
try to say or suggest. Right, So, like being a
n abj An organization you know that has so many
(15:56):
black women in it, where we are seeing so many
black women leading, where we're seeing so many black women
first in media who are coming under attack.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Like the weight and the gift of that responsibility is
not lost on me. And just seeing.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Myself as kind of part of this long tradition of
black women in journalism as truth tellers and bridge builders,
and like the moral compass of our newsrooms and of
our democracy. Like that is the spirit that I bring
to this presidency right now because we are leading in
a moment when democracy impressed freedom or under threat, So like,
why wouldn't the perspective of a.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Black women be essential in this moment? Right?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
The lessons that we know that black women are here
to teach this country about resilience, about building coalitions, about
centering community, like all of that is what journalism needs
right now. And I felt like that was what ANABJ
needed right now in its next president.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
They needed you, Madam President. And I want to be
more specific because someone will listen to this or if
I post a clip and they're like, what do you
mean under attack? What do you mean? That sounds like
a complaint? I can you give us a specific example
of how you've seen journalism on under attack? There are many,
but anyone that really stands true that the world can
(17:04):
honestly say. You know what, I can argue with that?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, I mean, look, when we see people in our
highest levels of government saying that journalism is the enemy
of the people. No, journalism is an essential pillar of
our democracy.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And when you combine that with you know people who
would suggest that diversity, equity, and inclusion are not American
values that have helped us become a more free, a
more fair, a more equal society. Like that is what
I mean when I say journalism and the truth are
under attack in this moment. And so, you know, black
journalists are are journalists that have always spoken with clarity.
(17:38):
You know, often they have been kind of the lone
voices who have been telling the truth about who and
where we are as a country. And so to lose
those voices or to have those voices attempted to be silenced,
you know, I think that that is something that is
headed in the wrong direction, especially as we as a
country are getting ready to celebrate our two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary, Like, is this really where we want to
(18:00):
be going as a democracy? A country that is not
valuing the diverse perspectives of its free press right now?
That just doesn't make sense to me. It's certainly not
the journalism that you and I came up in, and
it's not where I want to go once.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
This is where I feel like we are as journalists.
I feel especially when you watch any any program, you
don't watch any you can say whatever you like. Now
there's no fact checking, there is no pushback in terms
of narratives that are being created and the reality is,
if I'm being honest with you, I don't think the
(18:37):
average citizen believes anything they hear and or see. So
if I'm on Threads or if I'm on X, or
if I'm on TV for that matter, everyone has an opinion,
and everyone can push some sort of narrative with with
with no real fact behind it, and it could it
(18:58):
takes forever to circle go back and correct it if
it's correct at all. And I feel like we're living
in a time. We're journalists, such as yourself, myself, We're like,
how do we cut through the nonsense and speak truth
to power? Is there a blueprint in place?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Carrie?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
People like you are the blueprint, Like speaking truth to
power matters. Doing that in public matters, even in the
face of missing different disinformation. I watch you, I see
you out here in these journalism streets trying to tell
the truth about this country. You are somebody that is
a trusted messenger among our people. And when you try
to do that and you are disrespected on air, and
(19:38):
nobody speaks up and speaks out and says no, this
is wrong. Like that is what I mean when I
say advocacy is needed. Somebody has to be out here
and say, you know, First Amendment rights, sure, but also
where is the decorum?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Where is the civility?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Why is it okay for black women to be disrespected
on air with impunity?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
With impunity?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, within that is it's not acceptable, but it is
part of an overall kind of political climate that we
are seeing that is being you know, encouraged and emboldened
in this moment as we are saying that race and gender,
you know that this color, that this this society, you know,
the word is that you know, we need to be
(20:20):
going to a colorblind society. What it really means is that,
you know, folks would be happier if we were invisible.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And that's what they're trying to do. They are dismissing us.
I find myself for instance, get case in point. I
went on Lower Coachs the last night. The producer says
to me. The note the producer gives me is let's
just have fun. Last fifteen minutes of the show, I
am talking about fun topics and they're supposed to be fun.
And there's a guy named Pete Dominic on the other end.
(20:47):
I don't know if you're familiar with him. He has
some sort of radio show. Yet again, another person with
a personality, and he's not he's not red or blue.
If he leaned anyway, perhaps it was democratic, democratic, but
I wouldn't know. But he's immediately in defense mode, and
I just really shut it down. I said, hey, do
me a favor. This is supposed to be a light segment.
I don't know if you got the notes, you know,
(21:07):
but I'm not here to battle you and I Aaron,
I'm at the point where I refuse to be on
TV with Scott Jennings. I'm just not going to go
on a show and allow him to lie and say
disrespectful things and or make disrespectful faces and they and
it's for someone else's entertainment because in fact, it's not
(21:29):
like he really cares about it. It's for fun. It's
not as if he's trying to press a message. It's
for fun. And for us black women more specifically, we
feel this in a way because we know it's our
responsibility to stand up. It's not for fun for me,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
And the stakes are what you were talking about, right,
The stakes are democracy are high and we you know
black women in this moment, are you are attempting to
be truth tellers, right, and so when when attempts to
do that are pushed aside, dismissed, diminished, you.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Know, treat it with disrespect. That's not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And and by having those kinds of exchanges, you know,
I get it, you were moving yourself from those kinds
of exchanges, says you will not participate in the normalization
of that kind of dynamic. That because if that could
happen on national television, who else's workplace is that going
to happen? You know, where people are not seeing, where
they're not cameras, where people do not have somebody that
(22:34):
can you know that might you know, put a comment
on social media saying that is not okay. This is
what it means. You know, when when when those kinds
of exchanges are happening on you know, under the rubric
of of you know, journalism, you know, a journalism program
like that, that what that reinforces in our society is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, frankly, it is really not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It is dangerous. And it's also so to your point,
if we normalize it, if we make it okay, then
that will happen in other places. But here's the thing.
I have seen so many of our peers push back,
fight back, and I don't know if it's I don't
know if the squeeze is worth the juice. I mean,
I don't know what the benefit is to sit on
(23:20):
television and argue with someone who, when it's all said
and done, and if this also passes, will not be
treated differently. He will still be able to move on
with his life and live perfectly. And I just don't
know if we will have that same grace if we
decide to sling mud and behave the same way.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, but again, I mean, I don't think it's about
You are not somebody. I not one time have I
ever seen you getting down in the mud, getting in
the gut, or with anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I'm afraid to just just.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
To you are still trying to conduct yourself with integrity
and professionalism.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
You do it because the truth still matters, Like the
truth has to still matter.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And this is not just for us. You don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Who is watching, who is seeing you as that example
of truth and integrity and professionalism. That is, you don't
know how that is going to land with somebody who
does not have the ability to do that where they
work or in their community or what you know, you doing,
you being that voice, the voice that maybe somebody else
doesn't have. That's why it matters. We don't you know,
(24:22):
we know who we do this for. And that's the
thing that we have to keep in mind. We know
who we are doing this for, people who are as
committed to the truth and to what is right, whether
that is you know, folks in our own community or
folks who are allies like, the truth has to matter.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It has to matter in a democracy, in a world
with a free press.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Let me tell you something, Madam President. What you just
said soothed me. The truth still matters. I got a
little distracted being a disruptor. I literally went off the
trail that will take me back to the reason why
I wanted. What is my why? Why is the truth
still matters?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yes, and it's gonna matter, and it's gonna matter to
somebody out there. And you you are going to reach
somebody for whoever else is not listening or who wants
to dismiss or or try to diminish what you are saying.
You you are getting through to somebody that is watching
that program in that moment, on that night. What you
say is going to get through to them and they
(25:22):
are gonna feel like they are not crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Right, You're no, You're right. I see it. I walk
down the street. I was down the street the other day.
Wanna walks up to me and says, let me tell
you something, thank you, And I was like, you got it,
you know what I mean. But right with that being said,
I feel like your role already comes with a huge responsibility,
but there is this extra weight. Last year when Donald
(25:48):
Trump went to NABJ went to the NABJ convention, there
was so much pushback in terms of people who were
members or not members, dues, not paid, but still a
part considers themselves a part of the order of referring
to myself, still considers themselves apparent. Yeah, now current, my
(26:08):
ds are my dus have to be current because my
girlfriend said do it. My girl said do it. But
but there was so much backlash and over the years
when people that we've known been have been in trouble,
myself included, we felt like, and ABJ, while we love
the we love the organization, and we love the advocacy
that is there, provided there needed to be more. Is
(26:31):
there a plan that you have in place. When when
you see journalists like our good friend Joy Read creating
her own, Don Lemon creating his own, we're seeing legacy
media moving into a space that will allow them to
speak truth to power and they answer to no one,
but they also need to be paid and they're trying
(26:51):
to create something that allows them to do their job
and survive in this society.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, and I think that that
is also the role of an abja. And that's also
part of what advocacy means. To be celebrating and championing
the work that our journalists are doing, those of us
who are speaking truth to power and who are doing
that boldly on these independent platforms that we need our
folks to be supporting, right, but like helping people to
(27:18):
know these are the trusted messengers that you can go
to you don't have, you know, if you are feeling like,
you know, the traditional legacy media companies are not representing you.
This is literally why I helped to start the nineteenth
because the status quo was not acceptable to me. We
needed to disrupt how political journalism was being done. It
was still too male and too pale and not telling
(27:39):
the truth about who and where we were as a country.
So we start a newsroom where we're going to center women,
We're going to center queer folks, We're going to center
black and brown folks. The work that folks like you,
folks like Joy, folks like don are doing night after night,
whether it's on sub stack or whether it's on YouTube,
whether it's here on iHeart like, that work matters. And
we have to tell our people if this is if
(28:00):
you're looking for for journalism and media that speaks to
you like, you have to support that.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
You have to support it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
And so you know, just if you've got money for
a latte that you know that's a subset subscription that
you can be you know, it costs nothing to hit
that subscribe button you know on YouTube to help somebody
get some revenue. And also to say this is the
kind of journalism that I want, This is the kind
of journalism that I value. We have seen black women
already this year speaking with their wallets.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Look at this target boycott. Right.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
We know that we can speak with our wallets and
make our voices heard about what is important to us.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And what we value.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
So like, why shouldn't that also be black journalists journalists earnalism.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I wonder is there a call to action? Meaning there
are so many journalists I know now friends that we
have are like, well, what's next? What do we do?
We don't feel safe at our network currently, and we
also know that if we if we tell too much truth,
(29:02):
that that could mean we don't have a job. We
absolutely and we saw that happen. And I'm all reference Joy.
We know that Joy Show, for no reason in the
world should have been canceled. She was winning in the ratings.
She's a fan favorite, she is an excellent journalist, but
there were things that she was refusing to ignore. She
(29:22):
was doing her job, and if it was all said
and done, it appears on the outside she was let
go because it made people uncomfortable. It made people feel
like they didn't want to hear what she had to say.
It reminded people that they weren't speaking truth to power
and they were ignoring it. What do we What does
NABJ do in that case?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I mean, look, I think strength in numbers matters, especially now,
and like I said, ANABJ is already an organization that
is four thousand strong, but we know that there are
more people out there. I'm inviting listeners, I'm inviting journalists.
I'm inviting our allies, anybody that supports journalism, that supports journalism,
the truth our democracy really to join in ABYDA to
(30:05):
support our mission.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We are going.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
We just came from our fiftieth anniversary convention in Cleveland.
Next year we are headed to Atlanta over lit.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Do I even need to say more? I know we'll
be in that. I will. I will.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
It's not but this is not just going to be
a celebration, right, It is going to be a strategy
session for our next fifty years. And just for people
who don't realize, I mean in MBJA is more than
a professional association. If you've seen the highlights on Instagram,
it's not just a party. This is a lifeline. This
is an amplifier, it's a protector. It's a professional development association.
And our members work really does shape the narrative for
(30:41):
this country and it ensures that the record in our
community is accurate and complete. So if you believe in that,
stand with us, because we stand for you each and
every day on every nightly newscasts that you see on
every local news broadcast, in your newspaper, in your local
newspaper on your local radio station. Like, blackjournalists are here
and they're here for you, so please be here for us.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Amen. Okay, so can you tell us specifically what are
the requirements to join in terms of profession. I know
that we have a collegiate any.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yes, we have full members, you know, full full time
working journalists. We have freelancers. We have associate members, people
who might be you know, practicing public relations or other
types of media. We have members of you know, academia
if you are teaching journalism or journalism related, you know,
majors that would include you.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
We have student journalists.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Are the really the lifeblood of the future of our organization.
You can join that. That's how I started. I started
when I was a student in NABJ in Atlanta. I
joined a student chapter. So like, there are different tiers
of membership. But if you just go to nab NABJ
dot org, look for that membership link and we will
do the rest. But yes, you could be an associate member.
(31:56):
You do not, by the way, have to be a
black person. My CEO at the night, who was a
white woman, joined NABJ the day that I told her
that I was running for president.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So we welcome, we welcome.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Allies, supporters of the work that we are doing, and
the people who are doing this work join us, stand
with us. We so appreciate that, and headed into our
next fifty years, we're gonna need everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
We're gonna need everybody.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
What would you say is in terms of the number
one thing on your agenda? Gosh, there could be so
much on your agenda. I know there is, right, what's
one of the way. When it's all said and done
and Madam President is moving on to a different position
and handing over the reins, what is it that you
would like to focus on primarily in your presidency?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, I mean, I just I want to be the
same bold, visionary voice for this generation that our founders
were when we started in nineteen seventy five. I mean, look,
even though we don't look like it, we've been around
this industry long enough to know, like, there are moments
in your career that you never forget get. For me,
being elected the twenty fourth president of NABJ was one
(33:04):
of those moments. I hope that my last day as president,
whenever that is, will also be one of those moments
because I want to know that I rose to the
occasion and I met the moment in our democracy and
our profession, and you know, for the fight for truth
and equity and representation. So I mean, of all the
(33:24):
things that I've done, I can honestly say that even
though you know, it's been less than a week since
my election, but this, this is truly, especially in nabja's
fiftieth anniversary year, this is the honor of my career.
So I just hope to be worthy of our founders.
I hope to be worthy of this moment in our profession,
and I hope to be worthy of all of our
members because they are out here on the front lines
(33:46):
every single day fighting for these jobs, fighting for these stories,
and fighting for all of you.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
When you were at the convention was just ended last week,
what what were the concerns that you heard the most?
What did the journalists talk to you about? What did
they inquire about? What did they need help with?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, I mean I think three main things. One were
they going to have a job? You know, these layoffs
people were getting laid off as we were at the convention,
in some cases from some of these media companies. That
was jarring, and that just made things that much more
real and that much more urgent. How are we getting
(34:28):
our folks ready for this new media landscape setting them
up to be able to stay in this profession, whether
it is you know, at a media outlet or striking
out on their own and doing something different. If they
weren't worried about whether or not they were going to
have a job, it was how to do their job
safely in this climate.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Right, Black journalists want to.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Tell stories, but how can they do that safely with
the threat of DEI kind of looming over everything that
so many institutions in our society, including the media. Right,
they're trying to figure out how to navigate this new landscape,
but also looking to be affirmed like hearing that being
able to be at NABJ and to have your colleagues,
(35:09):
whether they're in your newsroom or in some other newsroom
across the country, to say your stories matter, that story
you did matters.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That were celebrating.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
We had an Awards gale that was beautiful, so many
rich stories from across the country being celebrated.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That matters.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
That is the thing that recharges and renews people and
gives them that armor to go back out into the
world and do this work. And I think the last
thing is, you know, what are the skills that I
need to be able to do this right, NABJ. If
anybody is going to have my back, that can't just
mean advocacy. It's also it has to mean the professional
development that I need. If somebody wants to start a podcast,
(35:45):
if somebody's thinking about starting that newsletter, if somebody says,
you know, maybe I want to do a show on YouTube,
but I don't really know how to do that, how
can I get started? If we are not giving them
the tools to empower them to do that, to strike.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Out on their own.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Some of these people have huge followings already or they
can build one right if they have the tools that
they need. They're not necessarily going to get that from
you know, where they are now. They may not necessarily
know the right people to go out and strike out
on their own, but they know NABJ, and so NABJ
has to be there for them to help them to
get those two. So many people said, you know, I'm
(36:17):
thinking about this, but I don't really know how would
I get started with something like that. NABJ has to
have an answer for them when they show up the
content creators, right, combining that with the craft.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That's how we're going to get these folks ready for
the newsrooms.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Well not even just the newsrooms, but just the news landscape,
the media landscape that we all find ourselves in right now.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
When you talk about content creators working with people who
are not necessary or who are trained journalists in a
different way, I think the marriage of the two is
the new birth of journalism. Would you say legacy media
is no longer valuable or is it being used differently?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I think that it's evolving, right, I mean it doesn't
look like it looked before. You have entities like the
Times of the Posts that understand, you know, we need
to lean into video, right, They're standing up podcasts, you know,
all over the place they need. They are trying to
meet audiences where they are. We think about how we
consume news. I mean, we're doing so much on here,
so like we have to figure out how are we
(37:18):
going to meet people where they are. People are not
sitting down having dinner as a group and watching the
six o'clock news like that is over, right, But are
they still streaming the news on their phones when natural
disasters happen or something, you know, some national crisis happens
or some local crisis happens. They know that they need
the news to tell them what is going on and
what is happening. And so it's not that the news
(37:40):
doesn't still matter. It absolutely matters. But what we have
to figure out. The journalism has always evolved, you know
what I mean, whether that was you know, newspapers, radio, television,
the internet now, AI like, this profession has always evolved.
We just have to make sure that we are evolving
with it and that we are shaping it just as
(38:01):
message is shaping us.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That's that's very eloquent and arguably a huge task because
you know, there are so many people who are coming
in to this same content create you want me to
and I'm in the middle now, I'm the middle.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Child of it all, I know. But we have got
I mean, look, we cannot be we certainly. I have
so much respect for the craft. You and I came
up in the craft. We know how to do this.
We're trusted messengers in part because we are trained to
do what we do. But we also have to stop
being so precious about the idea. There's a reason why
some people are trusted messengers, right, and they can be
(38:36):
telling the truth even if they are not doing it
in the tradition that we came up in. So not
only do they have things to learn from us, but
we have things to learn from them about making connection
and being in relationship with an audience.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Like I came from a print background, our profession, we
did not you know, we thought you know, oh, we
know best. We'll tell you what's going on. We don't
have to explain to you how we are doing what
we do. No, Like audiences expect transparency. They want you
to earn their trust. They don't just expect that trust
is going to be a given because you work at
a certain place, or because you've been doing something for
(39:12):
you know, a certain amount of time. Like, No, the
idea that we don't go out and earn these people's
trust each and every single day. Like in this day
and age, with missing disinformation being what it is, with
people being so skeptical of all institutions, including journalism, we
cannot afford to continue to act like we acted, you
know when we first got into this business.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Well, we cannot afford to continue to act that way.
But tell me what that looks like if we can't
afford to act that way, that means that we have
to still earn the trust and not just assume we're
going to have the trust just because we're on CNN
if you will, or MSNBC, if you will. We still
have to earn that trust.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Absolutely by being consistent, by being in relationship with our audiences,
by meeting them where they are, by not just expecting
them to find us.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Right. You know, thank you very much for.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Everybody that's coming to nineteenth News, But like, I don't
assume everybody's coming to the homepage, right, So, let me
get on Instagram, Let me get on TikTok and tell
you about the column that I just wrote or the
podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
You know that I just dropped.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Like, I want you to be able to find me,
but I don't expect you to be able to do
that by yourself. In this crowded landscape where there's so
much information, and I love that people are so interested
in what is happening in our country right now, but
not all information is good information, and everything is not
breaking through. We know that information, especially about the kinds
of stuff that we talk about, is being suppressed on
(40:30):
these platforms, right, so we have to go out and
find these people, and we have to go out and
make the case that we are you know, they should
be seeking us out right because we are giving them
trusted information. That is the information that they need to
know that makes them feel seen and heard in this country.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Here's what's interesting when you point out that these platforms,
whether it be Instagram, Facebook, I'm not on Facebook, but TikTok,
you know that the information that we are putting out
is being suppressed. How does how does an organization like
in ABJ battle that. How do you respond to that?
Because that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
It is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And again, strength in numbers like amplifying the work that
we are doing. You know, Carrie, you sharing, you know
when I write a column or me sharing you know this,
you know your latest podcast episode or or the clip
that you had on CNN where you were speaking truths
to power on air, Like that stuff matters.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
As many of us that can do that for each.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Other, right that that amplification is what can help us
push through even when that algorithm is trying to suppress us.
So you know, when when when we think about what
we are sharing, but also when we think about what
we are posting and asking other people to share, like
we can't be you know, shy about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Share this, you know we should be yes.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
To say, oh, you know, if you don't mind share,
no share it. I'm asking everybody if you see it,
share it.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I repost, repost, do that. But I do that a lot,
especially when you were running. I do that a lot,
just because one more time, let's just do it. You're
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
We fact what helps push this through. It really does that.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
It gets that message to I will see yourself that
much more often if other people are sharing it.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I want to share a real emotion that I feel
about where we are and what I have noticed and watched.
We've touched on it, but the idea that that what
we do for a living, right or what we've worked at,
(42:36):
and we've been very precious about it because there's a
group of us we're very precious. Like no, I'm a
journalist and I don't do and it has to be
perfect those that day and age is over. But I
have heard from so many of my mentees. I've heard
from so many people who are in our business who say,
I'm tired, I'm exhausted, and we want someone to come
(42:59):
in and save the day, and or we want some
sort of change with this administration, and or some people
to come and say, here's a bunch of money, we're
gonna help you fix it. Here's a there's a bunch
of resources, We're gonna help you fix it. That doesn't
seem to be good, that doesn't seem to be the case. Now,
our good friend Jamel Hill describe this as wartime journalism.
(43:19):
She said, this is when we should be able to
see some of the best, and we may see some
of the worst. How do you tell us to get
through wartime journalism? And I'm not asking you to have
all the answers. You can't you just I'm not saying
save the world erin. But there are people like I
don't know how to do wartime journalism. Do we go
to NYBJ and find resources to do it? There will
there be resources there.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
You know. You know what's there is is our resilience
and the reminder of who we are. I mean, the
thing about wartime journalism is you really have to ask yourself.
I mean, there's so many people that I can think of.
When I started this work, I was covering kind of
the vestiges of racism, and I thought, the last gasp
(44:01):
of racism and the gains of the civil rights movement,
that is not what I cover now, right Like I'm
covering this backlash. I'm covering this retrenchment of so much
that is moving our country in the wrong direction. And
you know that can be discouraging, that can be frustrating, right,
But the good news is is that we belong to
(44:21):
an organization where we have founders who we can see
and who we can touch, who did this work before
us at stakes that were much higher than ours, at
risks that were much higher than a lot of the
risks that some of us face today.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We can ask them what was it?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
We don't have to ask what would we do in
this moment? We are in this moment right what would
we have done during the civil rights movement?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
What would we have done?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
You know, if we were if we were in Io
b Wells, Like, we don't have to ask that we
are in a moment of huge consequence for our democracy.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
We are writing the first draft of history right.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Now, and the people that come along one hundred years
from now, they're going to be reading the work that
we did. They're going to be watching the covers that
we did about out this moment, and if we told
the truth in this moment, and so that is something
that requires courage.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And so what.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
At doing wartime journalism is to understand that it is
going to take courage in this moment, and we have
to ask ourselves what we're willing to sacrifice for courage
as huge as an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
As this role is.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
As an abja's president, like I understand, there are consequences, right,
there are consequences to speaking truth to power in this moment,
but the consequences of being silent. Being silent does not
keep you from being a target. And we do this
not only in the spirit of our founders, but of
our ancestors, Like this is what we do as black journalists,
(45:46):
as black people. We try to right wrongs, we afflict
the comfortable. These are the cornerstones of journalism. And so
for us to do anything less in this moment is
really to advocate our response ability to this profession and
to our people.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
That was beautiful, Aaron Haynes. Last, but not least, I
like to always say this to people who are listening.
I want people to understand that they don't need a
huge platform to be an advocate and or to have
courage and or to affect change. They don't have to
be in front of the camera. They don't have to
write for the nineteenth, they don't have to be the
president of NABJ. But what they can do is have courage,
(46:26):
and everyone can do it. It may not look look
like how you were doing it or how I am
doing it. It may look like I'm boycotting a certain outlet,
I am no longer watching this program, I am going
to donate to this particular group. It all looks it.
We can all still be advocates. We can all do
(46:48):
it in different ways. I don't want anyone to feel
limited by this conversation, but I do believe if I
had one thing to ask you before we let you go,
how would you encourage anyone listening and well aware of
what's going on in our society and while they may
(47:08):
be on the journalism adjacent and they want to know
how they can help. What what what words of encouragement
would you give?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Words of encouragement or a call to action? Would keep
I mean, keep showing up as you are in the
world every single day, right. I mean, it is apparently
a radical act to show up as a black person
in this country right now, as a woman in this
country right now, as a queer person in this country
right anybody but a straight white man in this country
(47:38):
right now.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It is a radical act to show up as who
you are.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
It takes courage to continue to do that and to
keep your head high and to conduct yourself with integrity.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
So like, if you are doing that, keep going.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
It matters, right And because somebody is seeing that, somebody
that you don't even know is watching seeing that. And
I say that especially to my black journalists that are
doing this work under a tremendously stressful, to say the least, environment.
But for us to continue to tell the truth and
(48:15):
to be a light for democracy in this moment, that matters.
There's so many different ways though, that all of us
can continue to be, you know, just a thousand points
a light for this democracy, because that is what is
going to be required right now. Those of us who
are saying no, we do want to still move forward,
We do still want to be perfecting this union in
(48:38):
this moment.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And what does that look like.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
That looks like a truly representative democracy is that represents
the small, emerging, the emerging, small d democratic majority of
this country.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Like that, that.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Is something that can be the collective work of all
of us, not just me and my platform as the
nineteenth or president in ABJ, not just you, you know,
hosting this podcast and doing all the things that you do.
But like every single one of us has an obligation
to contribute to the world that we want to live in,
the world that we want to see, and to reject
the world that we don't want to live in and
(49:10):
that we don't want to see.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
That is not free, not fair, and not equal.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Amen. Amen. Amen. Aaron Haynes Madam, President, National Association of
Black Journalists. In short, you have encouraged me, so I
see why you want and I think that's a simple message.
Be encouraged, stand in your truth, get up every day
and do what you do because that in itself is
(49:34):
an act of resistance and we need that. So thank
you so much for joining me here on Naked Sports,
where we talk about the intersection of sports, culture and politics.
We didn't get your sports takes on the WNBA. We
got to have you back because you know you guys,
I don't know if you know that you all she
plays in the WNBA on the side. I don't know
if anybody knows.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
I mean, we're launching stud Bus Part two.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
A SAT that's the joy. I need a SAP. That
is my They're my th there are my favorite. No, seriously, congratulations,
my friend. I'm very happy for you. And I am
not saying this just because my friend. This, this could
not have happened to someone who cares more deeply, someone
(50:17):
who is truly honest and wants to make sure that
truth is spoken to said power, and who wants to
be in the middle of it. You are truly an encouragement.
So thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me
on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Friend, Thank you my sister, and I look forward to
serving you. I look forward to fighting for you. No
one fights alone, including you, in this organization and our profession.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you to.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Your listeners, and I know that that they will all
be supporting in ABJA.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
They listen to everything that you say.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Hey, Beta, I Beta, Aaron Haynes. Ladies and Gentlemen Naked
Sports Written and executive produced by Me Carrie Champion, Produced
by Jock Please Tom Miss Sound designed and mastered by
Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part of the Black
Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at
the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal
the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening
and is basketball right now? Is what we've been trying
to get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums
where athlete to break barriers and set records. Caitlin Quark
(01:09):
broke the all time single game assists record.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This is crazy for rookies to be doing.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms
and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit
down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics because at
the core of it all, how we see one issue
shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.
I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hello, everyone, Welcome back to
(01:41):
Naked Sports. I am here in studio recording. I think
I took about two weeks off. We re aired two
podcasts that I really love, so thank you all for
supporting us. One was Malcolm Jamal Warner. The other was
about love, the new Volleyball League, the new professional women's
Volleyball League, and the reason why I like to give
(02:03):
you guys an update. Obviously the Malcolm Jamal Warner news.
No one was prepared for that. It was really unfortunate,
and that was a way in which I wanted to
pay respect to someone who I believe narrated parts of
my childhood. Really sad, but I was so overjoyed with
the way that the culture truly honored him. And we
(02:28):
saw all of these wonderful messages and people reaching out,
and I thought that was beautiful to show what an
impact he had on so many of us. I last week,
the reason why we had a reair went to Martha's Vineyard,
and that is where I want to begin. Folks, if
you haven't been to Martha's Vineyard, I know for me,
(02:48):
I grew up on the West Coast. I didn't know
much about Martha's Vineyard. It didn't even really feel like
a real place for me. And the first time I
went was probably three years ago. And when I tell you,
it was such a beautiful experience, I had to have
that over and over again. And this is how I
will explain Martha's Vineyard for those who are watching. Oak
(03:09):
Bluff's historically was a place where black people could go.
It was only beach. In fact, when it was segregated
where black people could go, and over the years it
has become a destination for everyone, but more specifically for
the culture. And it is such a beautiful place. And
I try to explain it to my friends, especially those
(03:31):
who've never been, but more specifically those on the West Coast,
because it's so hard to get to Martha's Vineyard. It's
a small island, not far from Nantucket or other islands
that you've heard of, sag Harbor, the Hampton's, all these
special little areas right that you hear about on the
East Coast, and it exists in its own way, and
(03:53):
it feels like I am taking a trip back to
another land. It feels like Happy Days when I say
Happy Days. That was a television show. I know many
of you may not know about it, but it feels
like it's just not real. We are in the Wizard
of Oz if you will. It's because when you get there,
(04:13):
time doesn't exist. You're not on the clock. You're walking around,
you're riding bikes to the beach, You're saying hi to
your neighbors. This is the best way to describe it
and the reason why I am talking about it. I
would love for all of you to have the same
experience that I had. Usually, August is the time in
(04:35):
which all the folks, the black folks show up there. Right,
it's a special. They have the film Festival and different
people come and present their films like mar bracka Kill
or I know that I saw Dave Chappelle. He has
a documentary out and he was there. It is not
only that they have the film Festival in August, but
what it does do is create a community that I
(04:56):
don't think exists when we are in our day to
day live. I say, when I land on the island
and I get situated, right, whether it be at a
hotel or some people rent houses. A bunch of folks
normally rent houses as a community. Right, You'll go to
a house and there's like ten people staying in a house,
but it's set for that. That's the vibe of the
whole place. Like a camp, it's an adult camp. It
(05:20):
immediately relaxes my nervous system. And I'm not going to
get into the particulars of all the things that you
can do while you're there, because it can be quite stimulating,
if not overstimulating, because there's always an event and there's
always something happening, and there's always this, and there's always that.
You don't have to do any of that. But what
(05:41):
I do like the relaxing aspect of it is that
imagine doing yoga at six am in the morning. They
have something at the beach known as ink Well. They
had a whole movie about ink Well. Go watch ink Well.
You know what I'm talking about. And people go there
and they do yoga at six am in the morning.
You get done with yoga, and you walk down the
street and you say hi to people you don't even know,
(06:02):
and it's just so much love because your nervous system
is so calm. There's a quote that says, make sure
that you keep people around you that relax your nervous
system so you're not anxious or uptight or constantly feeling
like you have to get to work. And that's what
Martha's Vineyard does for me specifically. And I encourage everyone,
(06:25):
if not just spend a couple of days there. I
know it sounds like it might be out of reach
and it's expensive, it's not. If you plan ahead, everyone
can do it. It's open to all, and it's something
that I would love for us to experience culturally. Now,
with that being said, I missed in ABJ National Association
of Black Journalists. They have an event every year. Obviously,
(06:51):
people come together and they're all journalists, primarily black journalists.
Perhaps you're looking for a job and you get to
meet with the from corporations that show up. CNN shows up,
local news outlets show up. Different representatives from these companies
show up, and the idea is to one either get
(07:11):
a job, network or talk about plans to change the
world as journalists. I wanted to be a journalist because
I realized and I couldn't articulate articulate it this way
when I was a kid. But I wanted to be
a journalist because I knew there was this moral responsibility,
(07:33):
not obligation, but responsibility to be a watchdog in society.
And I wish there was another term for watchdog. It
simply means I felt as if treating people unfairly couldn't
exist in the world that I lived in, and how
could I help participate without outside of being an attorney,
outside of being an activist, outside of being a doctor
(07:56):
who knows there are many ways in which you can
make sure people are being treated fairly. I chose journalism,
and when I joined INNABJ, it was such a special
moment for me. And every year when they have NABJ events,
and I don't know why, I'm struggling to find the
actual I would like to say, summit, right, are you
(08:17):
going to NABJ When they have this every year, they
have it in different cities. This year, it just so
happens it fell in the week where I was going
to be in Martha's vineyard, so I wasn't able to attend. However,
I did participate in the elections. They elect a president,
(08:37):
they elect a treasurer, they elect various council members, cabinet
members for NABJ, And today I have the pleasure of
interviewing the newly elected president of the National Association of
Black Journalists. Her name Aaron Haynes. She is my friend,
(09:04):
but she's also metam president, and I'm so excited to
have her on the podcast to talk about it in ABJ,
to talk about the role of journalism because, as you know,
in today's age, it is very difficult to speak truth
to power, to feel as if your job will be
protected if you say something that doesn't necessarily feel fair.
(09:27):
Or accurate to this current administration. We're seeing it left
and right. Journalists are being let go, they're being fired.
They're honestly afraid to do their jobs. And she has
a huge task, and that is how do you rally
the troops? How do you keep journalists in a space
where they want to report the truth if not for
fear of losing their job. I mean, that's a tough
(09:49):
space to be in. I called it wartime journalism, meaning
like we're at war. Wherever we are right now, we
are at war. And I'm not like, it may not
feel physical to you, but we are. It may not
feel like life threatening to you, but we are. Whenever
your civil liberties are being threatened, that is war. And
So today my friend, journalist Aaron Haynes' newly elected president
(10:15):
of NABJ, will join us and talk to us about
the task ahead and what her plans are. Thank you
so much for listening to this edition of Naked Sports.
We'll be back in just a few moments.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I'm Aaron Haynes, editor at Large at the nineteenth and
the twenty fourth president of the National Association of Black Journalists.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Congratulations, how are you?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Thank you, my friend listen, I feel wonderful. I feel
excited to get started, but also not a moment too
soon for our profession and for our democracy and for
all the things.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
There is a lot to cover. First and foremost, for
those who are listening and they're not familiar with NABJ
National Association of Black Journalists, in which you are the
twenty fourth president, mad Damn President, address her accordingly. Tell
everyone what NABJ stands for in terms of what is
the inception of the actual group and why we have
(11:27):
a convention every year.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely, what it stands for and what we stand for.
So NABJ is the National Association of Black Journalists. We
are the oldest, We are the largest advocacy organization for
journalists of color. We are celebrating our fiftieth anniversary. In
nineteen seventy five, forty four bold black journalists came together
and said that our stories were not going to be raised,
that our journalists were not going to be silenced. And
(11:50):
we have been fighting ever since for diverse representation in
America's newsrooms and fighting for our stories, which we know
are part of the American story. So every year we
come together thousands strong to celebrate and also to learn
the craft and to grow the next generation of black journalists.
And now I could not be prouder to be leading
(12:11):
us into our next fifty years.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Amen. Amen, Amen. But let me tell you this. If
someone's listening and they think that they have to be
in front of the camera type journalists or they have
to be a writer journalists, explain to them in terms
of the advocacy that exists, you don't need to necessarily
be someone who is presenting to be a part of ANAPJ.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, no, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean, look, there are so many ways to show
up as a black journalist, as people who are shaping
this narrative about our country. Yes, folks like you who
have been you know, on air, as anchors, as those
on air reporters. I spent most of my career as
a print journalists. Now you know, some of you may
see me sometimes on MSNBC talking about politics, talking about
race and gender. But you know, there are so many
(12:55):
folks behind the scenes, the producers, the editors that make
this happen. These folks are also essential to the storytelling,
and they are also under attack, and they are also
woefully underrepresented in our industry. So you know, I have
to say the fight facing black journalists now could not
be more urgent. We're in this political climate where you
(13:15):
have just increasing hostility towards all journalists, but especially those
that are focused on race, or inequality or democracy.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
You've got disinformation.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I mean, those folks behind the scenes are working to
push back against disinformation, just like those of us who
are using our platforms to try to prevent that from happening,
because we know that that's disproportionately affecting our folks, right.
And then the industry pressure is the layoffs, the shrinking
local newsrooms, the backsliding on DEI, all of that is
also affecting black journalists, whether they are in front of
the camera, not in front of the camera, have a byline,
(13:46):
we don't know their names. Like all of us are
under attack right now, and our jobs and our stories
are under threat.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Which leads me to my next question. Because as I'm
doing the intro, and I was having a hard time
finding my words because I wanted you to have everything,
and I'm like the convention, the meeting, I'm like, there's
this convention that we have every year, and normally people
would go to the convention to find a job. Still
the case to network, but there is to your point,
(14:12):
and we're under attack. The fourth State is under attack.
And I wonder why you at this time decided I'm
stepping up. This is what I need to do. I
need to rally the troops, if you will. I need
to get a cohesive plan put together so that we
can push back with the narrative and the misinformation and
(14:34):
the firing of black journalists.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I mean, look, I think for me, I came into
this year with such a tremendous sense of urgency around
this moment in our democracy and this moment in our profession.
And I'm looking around and I'm seeing that people were
not responding. There was not a pushback to what we
were seeing, the attacks on journalism, the attacks on the truth,
the attacks against frankly Black America, and so really, you know,
(15:00):
as I thought about what my best and highest use
in this moment as a journalist, as a member of
our beloved organization was, this is really where I landed.
And when I thought about, you know, what I wanted
to do in this role, Like, the question for me
was not if an ABJ was going to respond it,
but really it was just how boldly can we lead? So,
(15:20):
I mean advocacy. That was the spirit that the founders
came together in nineteen seventy five, standing up against censorship,
calling out under representation, pushing for you know, equitable hiring.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
We have to do that. But also like.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Equipping journalists with tools for the future, like what does
it mean for black journalists to be impacted by AI?
But also shape helping to shape AI going forward. And
I mean, you know, Carrie, I know, I don't have
to tell you, like black women's leadership in this moment
could not be more important, despite what anybody else might
try to say or suggest. Right, So, like being a
n abj An organization you know that has so many
(15:56):
black women in it, where we are seeing so many
black women leading, where we're seeing so many black women
first in media who are coming under attack.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Like the weight and the gift of that responsibility is
not lost on me. And just seeing.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Myself as kind of part of this long tradition of
black women in journalism as truth tellers and bridge builders,
and like the moral compass of our newsrooms and of
our democracy. Like that is the spirit that I bring
to this presidency right now because we are leading in
a moment when democracy impressed freedom or under threat, So like,
why wouldn't the perspective of a.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Black women be essential in this moment? Right?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
The lessons that we know that black women are here
to teach this country about resilience, about building coalitions, about
centering community, like all of that is what journalism needs
right now. And I felt like that was what ANABJ
needed right now in its next president.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
They needed you, Madam President. And I want to be
more specific because someone will listen to this or if
I post a clip and they're like, what do you
mean under attack? What do you mean? That sounds like
a complaint? I can you give us a specific example
of how you've seen journalism on under attack? There are many,
but anyone that really stands true that the world can
(17:04):
honestly say. You know what, I can argue with that?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, I mean, look, when we see people in our
highest levels of government saying that journalism is the enemy
of the people. No, journalism is an essential pillar of
our democracy.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
And when you combine that with you know people who
would suggest that diversity, equity, and inclusion are not American
values that have helped us become a more free, a
more fair, a more equal society. Like that is what
I mean when I say journalism and the truth are
under attack in this moment. And so, you know, black
journalists are are journalists that have always spoken with clarity.
(17:38):
You know, often they have been kind of the lone
voices who have been telling the truth about who and
where we are as a country. And so to lose
those voices or to have those voices attempted to be silenced,
you know, I think that that is something that is
headed in the wrong direction, especially as we as a
country are getting ready to celebrate our two hundred and
fiftieth anniversary, Like, is this really where we want to
(18:00):
be going as a democracy? A country that is not
valuing the diverse perspectives of its free press right now?
That just doesn't make sense to me. It's certainly not
the journalism that you and I came up in, and
it's not where I want to go once.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
This is where I feel like we are as journalists.
I feel especially when you watch any any program, you
don't watch any you can say whatever you like. Now
there's no fact checking, there is no pushback in terms
of narratives that are being created and the reality is,
if I'm being honest with you, I don't think the
(18:37):
average citizen believes anything they hear and or see. So
if I'm on Threads or if I'm on X, or
if I'm on TV for that matter, everyone has an opinion,
and everyone can push some sort of narrative with with
with no real fact behind it, and it could it
(18:58):
takes forever to circle go back and correct it if
it's correct at all. And I feel like we're living
in a time. We're journalists, such as yourself, myself, We're like,
how do we cut through the nonsense and speak truth
to power? Is there a blueprint in place?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Carrie?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
People like you are the blueprint, Like speaking truth to
power matters. Doing that in public matters, even in the
face of missing different disinformation. I watch you, I see
you out here in these journalism streets trying to tell
the truth about this country. You are somebody that is
a trusted messenger among our people. And when you try
to do that and you are disrespected on air, and
(19:38):
nobody speaks up and speaks out and says no, this
is wrong. Like that is what I mean when I
say advocacy is needed. Somebody has to be out here
and say, you know, First Amendment rights, sure, but also
where is the decorum?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Where is the civility?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Why is it okay for black women to be disrespected
on air with impunity?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
With impunity?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, within that is it's not acceptable, but it is
part of an overall kind of political climate that we
are seeing that is being you know, encouraged and emboldened
in this moment as we are saying that race and gender,
you know that this color, that this this society, you know,
the word is that you know, we need to be
(20:20):
going to a colorblind society. What it really means is that,
you know, folks would be happier if we were invisible.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And that's what they're trying to do. They are dismissing us.
I find myself for instance, get case in point. I
went on Lower Coachs the last night. The producer says
to me. The note the producer gives me is let's
just have fun. Last fifteen minutes of the show, I
am talking about fun topics and they're supposed to be fun.
And there's a guy named Pete Dominic on the other end.
(20:47):
I don't know if you're familiar with him. He has
some sort of radio show. Yet again, another person with
a personality, and he's not he's not red or blue.
If he leaned anyway, perhaps it was democratic, democratic, but
I wouldn't know. But he's immediately in defense mode, and
I just really shut it down. I said, hey, do
me a favor. This is supposed to be a light segment.
I don't know if you got the notes, you know,
(21:07):
but I'm not here to battle you and I Aaron,
I'm at the point where I refuse to be on
TV with Scott Jennings. I'm just not going to go
on a show and allow him to lie and say
disrespectful things and or make disrespectful faces and they and
it's for someone else's entertainment because in fact, it's not
(21:29):
like he really cares about it. It's for fun. It's
not as if he's trying to press a message. It's
for fun. And for us black women more specifically, we
feel this in a way because we know it's our
responsibility to stand up. It's not for fun for me,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
And the stakes are what you were talking about, right,
The stakes are democracy are high and we you know
black women in this moment, are you are attempting to
be truth tellers, right, and so when when attempts to
do that are pushed aside, dismissed, diminished, you.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Know, treat it with disrespect. That's not acceptable.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And and by having those kinds of exchanges, you know,
I get it, you were moving yourself from those kinds
of exchanges, says you will not participate in the normalization
of that kind of dynamic. That because if that could
happen on national television, who else's workplace is that going
to happen? You know, where people are not seeing, where
they're not cameras, where people do not have somebody that
(22:34):
can you know that might you know, put a comment
on social media saying that is not okay. This is
what it means. You know, when when when those kinds
of exchanges are happening on you know, under the rubric
of of you know, journalism, you know, a journalism program
like that, that what that reinforces in our society is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I mean, frankly, it is really not acceptable.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It is dangerous. And it's also so to your point,
if we normalize it, if we make it okay, then
that will happen in other places. But here's the thing.
I have seen so many of our peers push back,
fight back, and I don't know if it's I don't
know if the squeeze is worth the juice. I mean,
I don't know what the benefit is to sit on
(23:20):
television and argue with someone who, when it's all said
and done, and if this also passes, will not be
treated differently. He will still be able to move on
with his life and live perfectly. And I just don't
know if we will have that same grace if we
decide to sling mud and behave the same way.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, but again, I mean, I don't think it's about
You are not somebody. I not one time have I
ever seen you getting down in the mud, getting in
the gut, or with anyone.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I'm afraid to just just.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
To you are still trying to conduct yourself with integrity
and professionalism.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
And here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
You do it because the truth still matters, Like the
truth has to still matter.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And this is not just for us. You don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Who is watching, who is seeing you as that example
of truth and integrity and professionalism. That is, you don't
know how that is going to land with somebody who
does not have the ability to do that where they
work or in their community or what you know, you doing,
you being that voice, the voice that maybe somebody else
doesn't have. That's why it matters. We don't you know,
(24:22):
we know who we do this for. And that's the
thing that we have to keep in mind. We know
who we are doing this for, people who are as
committed to the truth and to what is right, whether
that is you know, folks in our own community or
folks who are allies like, the truth has to matter.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
It has to matter in a democracy, in a world
with a free press.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Let me tell you something, Madam President. What you just
said soothed me. The truth still matters. I got a
little distracted being a disruptor. I literally went off the
trail that will take me back to the reason why
I wanted. What is my why? Why is the truth
still matters?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yes, and it's gonna matter, and it's gonna matter to
somebody out there. And you you are going to reach
somebody for whoever else is not listening or who wants
to dismiss or or try to diminish what you are saying.
You you are getting through to somebody that is watching
that program in that moment, on that night. What you
say is going to get through to them and they
(25:22):
are gonna feel like they are not crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Right, You're no, You're right. I see it. I walk
down the street. I was down the street the other day.
Wanna walks up to me and says, let me tell
you something, thank you, And I was like, you got it,
you know what I mean. But right with that being said,
I feel like your role already comes with a huge responsibility,
but there is this extra weight. Last year when Donald
(25:48):
Trump went to NABJ went to the NABJ convention, there
was so much pushback in terms of people who were
members or not members, dues, not paid, but still a
part considers themselves a part of the order of referring
to myself, still considers themselves apparent. Yeah, now current, my
(26:08):
ds are my dus have to be current because my
girlfriend said do it. My girl said do it. But
but there was so much backlash and over the years
when people that we've known been have been in trouble,
myself included, we felt like, and ABJ, while we love
the we love the organization, and we love the advocacy
that is there, provided there needed to be more. Is
(26:31):
there a plan that you have in place. When when
you see journalists like our good friend Joy Read creating
her own, Don Lemon creating his own, we're seeing legacy
media moving into a space that will allow them to
speak truth to power and they answer to no one,
but they also need to be paid and they're trying
(26:51):
to create something that allows them to do their job
and survive in this society.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, and I think that that
is also the role of an abja. And that's also
part of what advocacy means. To be celebrating and championing
the work that our journalists are doing, those of us
who are speaking truth to power and who are doing
that boldly on these independent platforms that we need our
folks to be supporting, right, but like helping people to
(27:18):
know these are the trusted messengers that you can go
to you don't have, you know, if you are feeling like,
you know, the traditional legacy media companies are not representing you.
This is literally why I helped to start the nineteenth
because the status quo was not acceptable to me. We
needed to disrupt how political journalism was being done. It
was still too male and too pale and not telling
(27:39):
the truth about who and where we were as a country.
So we start a newsroom where we're going to center women,
We're going to center queer folks, We're going to center
black and brown folks. The work that folks like you,
folks like Joy, folks like don are doing night after night,
whether it's on sub stack or whether it's on YouTube,
whether it's here on iHeart like, that work matters. And
we have to tell our people if this is if
(28:00):
you're looking for for journalism and media that speaks to
you like, you have to support that.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
You have to support it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
And so you know, just if you've got money for
a latte that you know that's a subset subscription that
you can be you know, it costs nothing to hit
that subscribe button you know on YouTube to help somebody
get some revenue. And also to say this is the
kind of journalism that I want, This is the kind
of journalism that I value. We have seen black women
already this year speaking with their wallets.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Look at this target boycott. Right.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
We know that we can speak with our wallets and
make our voices heard about what is important to us.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And what we value.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
So like, why shouldn't that also be black journalists journalists earnalism.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I wonder is there a call to action? Meaning there
are so many journalists I know now friends that we
have are like, well, what's next? What do we do?
We don't feel safe at our network currently, and we
also know that if we if we tell too much truth,
(29:02):
that that could mean we don't have a job. We
absolutely and we saw that happen. And I'm all reference Joy.
We know that Joy Show, for no reason in the
world should have been canceled. She was winning in the ratings.
She's a fan favorite, she is an excellent journalist, but
there were things that she was refusing to ignore. She
(29:22):
was doing her job, and if it was all said
and done, it appears on the outside she was let
go because it made people uncomfortable. It made people feel
like they didn't want to hear what she had to say.
It reminded people that they weren't speaking truth to power
and they were ignoring it. What do we What does
NABJ do in that case?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I mean, look, I think strength in numbers matters, especially now,
and like I said, ANABJ is already an organization that
is four thousand strong, but we know that there are
more people out there. I'm inviting listeners, I'm inviting journalists.
I'm inviting our allies, anybody that supports journalism, that supports journalism,
the truth our democracy really to join in ABYDA to
(30:05):
support our mission.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We are going.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
We just came from our fiftieth anniversary convention in Cleveland.
Next year we are headed to Atlanta over lit.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Do I even need to say more? I know we'll
be in that. I will. I will.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
It's not but this is not just going to be
a celebration, right, It is going to be a strategy
session for our next fifty years. And just for people
who don't realize, I mean in MBJA is more than
a professional association. If you've seen the highlights on Instagram,
it's not just a party. This is a lifeline. This
is an amplifier, it's a protector. It's a professional development association.
And our members work really does shape the narrative for
(30:41):
this country and it ensures that the record in our
community is accurate and complete. So if you believe in that,
stand with us, because we stand for you each and
every day on every nightly newscasts that you see on
every local news broadcast, in your newspaper, in your local
newspaper on your local radio station. Like, blackjournalists are here
and they're here for you, so please be here for us.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Amen. Okay, so can you tell us specifically what are
the requirements to join in terms of profession. I know
that we have a collegiate any.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Yes, we have full members, you know, full full time
working journalists. We have freelancers. We have associate members, people
who might be you know, practicing public relations or other
types of media. We have members of you know, academia
if you are teaching journalism or journalism related, you know,
majors that would include you.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
We have student journalists.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Are the really the lifeblood of the future of our organization.
You can join that. That's how I started. I started
when I was a student in NABJ in Atlanta. I
joined a student chapter. So like, there are different tiers
of membership. But if you just go to nab NABJ
dot org, look for that membership link and we will
do the rest. But yes, you could be an associate member.
(31:56):
You do not, by the way, have to be a
black person. My CEO at the night, who was a
white woman, joined NABJ the day that I told her
that I was running for president.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So we welcome, we welcome.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Allies, supporters of the work that we are doing, and
the people who are doing this work join us, stand
with us. We so appreciate that, and headed into our
next fifty years, we're gonna need everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
We're gonna need everybody.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
What would you say is in terms of the number
one thing on your agenda? Gosh, there could be so
much on your agenda. I know there is, right, what's
one of the way. When it's all said and done
and Madam President is moving on to a different position
and handing over the reins, what is it that you
would like to focus on primarily in your presidency?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, I mean, I just I want to be the
same bold, visionary voice for this generation that our founders
were when we started in nineteen seventy five. I mean, look,
even though we don't look like it, we've been around
this industry long enough to know, like, there are moments
in your career that you never forget get. For me,
being elected the twenty fourth president of NABJ was one
(33:04):
of those moments. I hope that my last day as president,
whenever that is, will also be one of those moments
because I want to know that I rose to the
occasion and I met the moment in our democracy and
our profession, and you know, for the fight for truth
and equity and representation. So I mean, of all the
(33:24):
things that I've done, I can honestly say that even
though you know, it's been less than a week since
my election, but this, this is truly, especially in nabja's
fiftieth anniversary year, this is the honor of my career.
So I just hope to be worthy of our founders.
I hope to be worthy of this moment in our profession,
and I hope to be worthy of all of our
members because they are out here on the front lines
(33:46):
every single day fighting for these jobs, fighting for these stories,
and fighting for all of you.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
When you were at the convention was just ended last week,
what what were the concerns that you heard the most?
What did the journalists talk to you about? What did
they inquire about? What did they need help with?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, I mean I think three main things. One were
they going to have a job? You know, these layoffs
people were getting laid off as we were at the convention,
in some cases from some of these media companies. That
was jarring, and that just made things that much more
real and that much more urgent. How are we getting
(34:28):
our folks ready for this new media landscape setting them
up to be able to stay in this profession, whether
it is you know, at a media outlet or striking
out on their own and doing something different. If they
weren't worried about whether or not they were going to
have a job, it was how to do their job
safely in this climate.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Right, Black journalists want to.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Tell stories, but how can they do that safely with
the threat of DEI kind of looming over everything that
so many institutions in our society, including the media. Right,
they're trying to figure out how to navigate this new landscape,
but also looking to be affirmed like hearing that being
able to be at NABJ and to have your colleagues,
(35:09):
whether they're in your newsroom or in some other newsroom
across the country, to say your stories matter, that story
you did matters.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
That were celebrating.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
We had an Awards gale that was beautiful, so many
rich stories from across the country being celebrated.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
That matters.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
That is the thing that recharges and renews people and
gives them that armor to go back out into the
world and do this work. And I think the last
thing is, you know, what are the skills that I
need to be able to do this right, NABJ. If
anybody is going to have my back, that can't just
mean advocacy. It's also it has to mean the professional
development that I need. If somebody wants to start a podcast,
(35:45):
if somebody's thinking about starting that newsletter, if somebody says,
you know, maybe I want to do a show on YouTube,
but I don't really know how to do that, how
can I get started? If we are not giving them
the tools to empower them to do that, to strike.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Out on their own.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Some of these people have huge followings already or they
can build one right if they have the tools that
they need. They're not necessarily going to get that from
you know, where they are now. They may not necessarily
know the right people to go out and strike out
on their own, but they know NABJ, and so NABJ
has to be there for them to help them to
get those two. So many people said, you know, I'm
(36:17):
thinking about this, but I don't really know how would
I get started with something like that. NABJ has to
have an answer for them when they show up the
content creators, right, combining that with the craft.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That's how we're going to get these folks ready for
the newsrooms.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Well not even just the newsrooms, but just the news landscape,
the media landscape that we all find ourselves in right now.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
When you talk about content creators working with people who
are not necessary or who are trained journalists in a
different way, I think the marriage of the two is
the new birth of journalism. Would you say legacy media
is no longer valuable or is it being used differently?
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I think that it's evolving, right, I mean it doesn't
look like it looked before. You have entities like the
Times of the Posts that understand, you know, we need
to lean into video, right, They're standing up podcasts, you know,
all over the place they need. They are trying to
meet audiences where they are. We think about how we
consume news. I mean, we're doing so much on here,
so like we have to figure out how are we
(37:18):
going to meet people where they are. People are not
sitting down having dinner as a group and watching the
six o'clock news like that is over, right, But are
they still streaming the news on their phones when natural
disasters happen or something, you know, some national crisis happens
or some local crisis happens. They know that they need
the news to tell them what is going on and
what is happening. And so it's not that the news
(37:40):
doesn't still matter. It absolutely matters. But what we have
to figure out. The journalism has always evolved, you know
what I mean, whether that was you know, newspapers, radio, television,
the internet now, AI like, this profession has always evolved.
We just have to make sure that we are evolving
with it and that we are shaping it just as
(38:01):
message is shaping us.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That's that's very eloquent and arguably a huge task because
you know, there are so many people who are coming
in to this same content create you want me to
and I'm in the middle now, I'm the middle.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Child of it all, I know. But we have got
I mean, look, we cannot be we certainly. I have
so much respect for the craft. You and I came
up in the craft. We know how to do this.
We're trusted messengers in part because we are trained to
do what we do. But we also have to stop
being so precious about the idea. There's a reason why
some people are trusted messengers, right, and they can be
(38:36):
telling the truth even if they are not doing it
in the tradition that we came up in. So not
only do they have things to learn from us, but
we have things to learn from them about making connection
and being in relationship with an audience.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Like I came from a print background, our profession, we
did not you know, we thought you know, oh, we
know best. We'll tell you what's going on. We don't
have to explain to you how we are doing what
we do. No, Like audiences expect transparency. They want you
to earn their trust. They don't just expect that trust
is going to be a given because you work at
a certain place, or because you've been doing something for
(39:12):
you know, a certain amount of time. Like, No, the
idea that we don't go out and earn these people's
trust each and every single day. Like in this day
and age, with missing disinformation being what it is, with
people being so skeptical of all institutions, including journalism, we
cannot afford to continue to act like we acted, you
know when we first got into this business.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Well, we cannot afford to continue to act that way.
But tell me what that looks like if we can't
afford to act that way, that means that we have
to still earn the trust and not just assume we're
going to have the trust just because we're on CNN
if you will, or MSNBC, if you will. We still
have to earn that trust.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Absolutely by being consistent, by being in relationship with our audiences,
by meeting them where they are, by not just expecting
them to find us.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Right. You know, thank you very much for.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Everybody that's coming to nineteenth News, But like, I don't
assume everybody's coming to the homepage, right, So, let me
get on Instagram, Let me get on TikTok and tell
you about the column that I just wrote or the
podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
You know that I just dropped.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Like, I want you to be able to find me,
but I don't expect you to be able to do
that by yourself. In this crowded landscape where there's so
much information, and I love that people are so interested
in what is happening in our country right now, but
not all information is good information, and everything is not
breaking through. We know that information, especially about the kinds
of stuff that we talk about, is being suppressed on
(40:30):
these platforms, right, so we have to go out and
find these people, and we have to go out and
make the case that we are you know, they should
be seeking us out right because we are giving them
trusted information. That is the information that they need to
know that makes them feel seen and heard in this country.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Here's what's interesting when you point out that these platforms,
whether it be Instagram, Facebook, I'm not on Facebook, but TikTok,
you know that the information that we are putting out
is being suppressed. How does how does an organization like
in ABJ battle that. How do you respond to that?
Because that's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
It is a real thing.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
And again, strength in numbers like amplifying the work that
we are doing. You know, Carrie, you sharing, you know
when I write a column or me sharing you know this,
you know your latest podcast episode or or the clip
that you had on CNN where you were speaking truths
to power on air, Like that stuff matters.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
As many of us that can do that for each.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Other, right that that amplification is what can help us
push through even when that algorithm is trying to suppress us.
So you know, when when when we think about what
we are sharing, but also when we think about what
we are posting and asking other people to share, like
we can't be you know, shy about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Share this, you know we should be yes.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
To say, oh, you know, if you don't mind share,
no share it. I'm asking everybody if you see it,
share it.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I repost, repost, do that. But I do that a lot,
especially when you were running. I do that a lot,
just because one more time, let's just do it. You're
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
We fact what helps push this through. It really does that.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
It gets that message to I will see yourself that
much more often if other people are sharing it.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
I want to share a real emotion that I feel
about where we are and what I have noticed and watched.
We've touched on it, but the idea that that what
we do for a living, right or what we've worked at,
(42:36):
and we've been very precious about it because there's a
group of us we're very precious. Like no, I'm a
journalist and I don't do and it has to be
perfect those that day and age is over. But I
have heard from so many of my mentees. I've heard
from so many people who are in our business who say,
I'm tired, I'm exhausted, and we want someone to come
(42:59):
in and save the day, and or we want some
sort of change with this administration, and or some people
to come and say, here's a bunch of money, we're
gonna help you fix it. Here's a there's a bunch
of resources, We're gonna help you fix it. That doesn't
seem to be good, that doesn't seem to be the case. Now,
our good friend Jamel Hill describe this as wartime journalism.
(43:19):
She said, this is when we should be able to
see some of the best, and we may see some
of the worst. How do you tell us to get
through wartime journalism? And I'm not asking you to have
all the answers. You can't you just I'm not saying
save the world erin. But there are people like I
don't know how to do wartime journalism. Do we go
to NYBJ and find resources to do it? There will
there be resources there.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
You know. You know what's there is is our resilience
and the reminder of who we are. I mean, the
thing about wartime journalism is you really have to ask yourself.
I mean, there's so many people that I can think of.
When I started this work, I was covering kind of
the vestiges of racism, and I thought, the last gasp
(44:01):
of racism and the gains of the civil rights movement,
that is not what I cover now, right Like I'm
covering this backlash. I'm covering this retrenchment of so much
that is moving our country in the wrong direction. And
you know that can be discouraging, that can be frustrating, right,
But the good news is is that we belong to
(44:21):
an organization where we have founders who we can see
and who we can touch, who did this work before
us at stakes that were much higher than ours, at
risks that were much higher than a lot of the
risks that some of us face today.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We can ask them what was it?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Like?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
We don't have to ask what would we do in
this moment? We are in this moment right what would
we have done during the civil rights movement?
Speaker 2 (44:41):
What would we have done?
Speaker 3 (44:42):
You know, if we were if we were in Io
b Wells, Like, we don't have to ask that we
are in a moment of huge consequence for our democracy.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
We are writing the first draft of history right.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Now, and the people that come along one hundred years
from now, they're going to be reading the work that
we did. They're going to be watching the covers that
we did about out this moment, and if we told
the truth in this moment, and so that is something
that requires courage.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And so what.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
At doing wartime journalism is to understand that it is
going to take courage in this moment, and we have
to ask ourselves what we're willing to sacrifice for courage
as huge as an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
As this role is.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
As an abja's president, like I understand, there are consequences, right,
there are consequences to speaking truth to power in this moment,
but the consequences of being silent. Being silent does not
keep you from being a target. And we do this
not only in the spirit of our founders, but of
our ancestors, Like this is what we do as black journalists,
(45:46):
as black people. We try to right wrongs, we afflict
the comfortable. These are the cornerstones of journalism. And so
for us to do anything less in this moment is
really to advocate our response ability to this profession and
to our people.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
That was beautiful, Aaron Haynes. Last, but not least, I
like to always say this to people who are listening.
I want people to understand that they don't need a
huge platform to be an advocate and or to have
courage and or to affect change. They don't have to
be in front of the camera. They don't have to
write for the nineteenth, they don't have to be the
president of NABJ. But what they can do is have courage,
(46:26):
and everyone can do it. It may not look look
like how you were doing it or how I am
doing it. It may look like I'm boycotting a certain outlet,
I am no longer watching this program, I am going
to donate to this particular group. It all looks it.
We can all still be advocates. We can all do
(46:48):
it in different ways. I don't want anyone to feel
limited by this conversation, but I do believe if I
had one thing to ask you before we let you go,
how would you encourage anyone listening and well aware of
what's going on in our society and while they may
(47:08):
be on the journalism adjacent and they want to know
how they can help. What what what words of encouragement
would you give?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Words of encouragement or a call to action? Would keep
I mean, keep showing up as you are in the
world every single day, right. I mean, it is apparently
a radical act to show up as a black person
in this country right now, as a woman in this
country right now, as a queer person in this country
right anybody but a straight white man in this country
(47:38):
right now.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It is a radical act to show up as who
you are.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
It takes courage to continue to do that and to
keep your head high and to conduct yourself with integrity.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
So like, if you are doing that, keep going.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
It matters, right And because somebody is seeing that, somebody
that you don't even know is watching seeing that. And
I say that especially to my black journalists that are
doing this work under a tremendously stressful, to say the least, environment.
But for us to continue to tell the truth and
(48:15):
to be a light for democracy in this moment, that matters.
There's so many different ways though, that all of us
can continue to be, you know, just a thousand points
a light for this democracy, because that is what is
going to be required right now. Those of us who
are saying no, we do want to still move forward,
We do still want to be perfecting this union in
(48:38):
this moment.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And what does that look like.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
That looks like a truly representative democracy is that represents
the small, emerging, the emerging, small d democratic majority of
this country.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Like that, that.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Is something that can be the collective work of all
of us, not just me and my platform as the
nineteenth or president in ABJ, not just you, you know,
hosting this podcast and doing all the things that you do.
But like every single one of us has an obligation
to contribute to the world that we want to live in,
the world that we want to see, and to reject
the world that we don't want to live in and
(49:10):
that we don't want to see.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
That is not free, not fair, and not equal.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Amen. Amen. Amen. Aaron Haynes Madam, President, National Association of
Black Journalists. In short, you have encouraged me, so I
see why you want and I think that's a simple message.
Be encouraged, stand in your truth, get up every day
and do what you do because that in itself is
(49:34):
an act of resistance and we need that. So thank
you so much for joining me here on Naked Sports,
where we talk about the intersection of sports, culture and politics.
We didn't get your sports takes on the WNBA. We
got to have you back because you know you guys,
I don't know if you know that you all she
plays in the WNBA on the side. I don't know
if anybody knows.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
I mean, we're launching stud Bus Part two.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
A SAT that's the joy. I need a SAP. That
is my They're my th there are my favorite. No, seriously, congratulations,
my friend. I'm very happy for you. And I am
not saying this just because my friend. This, this could
not have happened to someone who cares more deeply, someone
(50:17):
who is truly honest and wants to make sure that
truth is spoken to said power, and who wants to
be in the middle of it. You are truly an encouragement.
So thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me
on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Friend, Thank you my sister, and I look forward to
serving you. I look forward to fighting for you. No
one fights alone, including you, in this organization and our profession.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you to.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Your listeners, and I know that that they will all
be supporting in ABJA.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
They listen to everything that you say.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Hey, Beta, I Beta, Aaron Haynes. Ladies and Gentlemen Naked
Sports Written and executive produced by Me Carrie Champion, Produced
by Jock Please Tom Miss Sound designed and mastered by
Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a part of the Black
Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia
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