August 21, 2023 • 52 mins
Stephanie Mills is a household name, she has been making history since her appearance at the Apollo Theatre at eleven years old to her role as Dorothy in The Wiz on Broadway and winning Grammy’s for her music as a solo artist.
Mills has so many stories from over the years in business; from dating Michael Jackson, being on set with Diana Ross, a love fest with Motown, and more. She shares these monumental experiences casually, but they are undoubtedly legendary.
Listen to learn more about her upcoming tour, including a special stop in Montgomery, Alabama to stand against injustice.
Connect: @CariChampion @IamStephanieMills
Learn More: IAMSTEPHANIEMILLS.COM
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I say what I want to say, and I really
don't have any fear. The only fear I only fear God.
And I just feel like, when are we going to
stand up and say enough is enough with human just
like you are? And I love people. I am not
I'm prejudiced, but I'm not racist because the racist as
you rate a person because of the color of this skid.
(00:21):
I'm prejudice against hate. I'm prejudiced against you beating up
on my brother, beating up on my sister, killing my people.
I'm prejudice against that, But I'm not racist. It's not
that I hate white people. I hate spect I love everybody.
But I do not want you to beat on us.
I don't. I don't want that. I don't want that.
(00:42):
So I'm gonna stand with my own own.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
When I think of home, I think of a place
where ah, okay, now I'm not a singer, but oh
don't I wish I could say God knew not to
give me no singing abilities. Today on Naked we have
Stephanie mil.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's the greatest sports in the entertainment. Can Naked win? Carrype?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And Carrie Chappy is to be a champion of Champion
and Carrie Chappy and the Champion and Carry Sheppion and
Carrie Shepym Naked Ward.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another edition of Naked. I'm
going to begin this edition of Naked talking about what
happened uh in Alabama. And there is a reason. By
now we have all and I know what I say,
by now we have all culturally have seen what went
down in Alabama. And I'm talking about the river boat.
(01:45):
I'm talking about the brawl as they'd like to call it.
I am talking about a security guard trying to do
his job and tell these folks, and by these folks,
I mean a group of white people that they cannot
park their boat at this dock, They cannot dock their
boat at this particular spot because they're trying to bring
in the cruise ship that took people on a tour. Right,
(02:08):
and it's not a cruise ship, it's like a river boat.
They were doing a little sail, a little turnabout in
the river. Obviously we know what happened. The white people,
because I'm going to make it really plain, started to
attack a black man who was doing his job. And yes,
drinks clearly or involved. It seemed as if this group
(02:31):
of boaters, people out on a weekend excursion, enjoying themselves,
had too much to drink, but that is still no excuse.
This man was doing his job. He said, hey, you
guys are not allowed to dock your boat here. We
have this river boat getting ready to come in and
you're in the wrong location. And they started to push
and shove. You guys know what happened and leave it
to the internet. The black folks of the Internet and
(02:55):
probably others participated. But not only did they make fun
of this moment, they made something that could have been
really really divisive, funny and hilarious. A group of white
people attacking a black man is not something that we
want to see. That situation could have turned into a
deadly situation in a matter of moments, until we saw
(03:16):
a group of other blacks, blacks who worked they're also
on the dog, on the cruise ship, on the tour ship.
If you will, I'm trying to find the words, come
in and help this guy. And then some bystanders who
were black as well, who were like, no, I'm sorry,
this is not about to go down. You're not about
to beat up this black man. This security guard who's
doing his job. I'm leaving out names because I don't
(03:39):
want to get two in the weeds. But at the
end of the day, what we saw was this black man,
this security guard, take his hat off, flip it in
the air, and that was a signal like, save this
ship because it's about to be on, y'all need to
come help me. They trying to jump me. They at me,
they at me, and they were really at him. Black
man sitting there trying to stave off a group of
(04:00):
white men and women, and the optics are not are
not good. However, when peers came to the rescue, other
black men came to the rescue. Leave it to the
internet to tell you what it really means. There were
jokes about the guy who jumped in the water and
swam across to save the black man or to help
(04:23):
the black man fight. There were jokes about how black
men were skipping to the fight, which meant, okay, it's
about to be on. You know what a skip is, right,
And there were just so many jokes that were flying
around and it was really funny. I don't care if
you don't think it was funny. It was funny. The
optics in terms of what happened not funny, but how
(04:43):
we turned trauma into something hilarious is what we do
as a culture. No one. I can't think of a
group of people that turned trauma into comedy the way
in which black folks do it. And we laughed because
other we'd be angry and we'd be crying and we'd
be sad. It would be our existence if we continued
(05:06):
to talk about what was wrong and how we feel
wronged and how we're tired of the injustice and how
bad people treat us. We turned it into something extremely funny.
And the top of it all off, those white folks got
they butts tapped, you know what I mean, and they
started it. It was self defense. You can't run around
(05:27):
just punching and beating up on people, specifically black folks,
and think there will be no repercussions. And the way
in which the culture, the community, the mayor of Montgomery,
Alabama handled this situation was a perfect example of no,
we're not gonna let this ride. We're tired, we're sick,
(05:48):
and we're tired and retired and we're sick. But there
was so much humor in that, and since then we
have seen people with hilarious memes. We've seen luminary speak
out saying they support the group of people who protected
the super security guard. We've seen people donate to a
fund to help get people out of jail and help
(06:10):
other people get attorneys because people were arrested in the incident.
But have we heard of someone giving a concert. Stephanie Mills.
Stephanie Mills, the legendary singer, songwriter, award winning artist, is
giving a concert for the folks in Montgomery, Alabama to
(06:34):
promote peace and love and to say I see you
and I'm glad that you did not let that black
man take a beating without helping him. And today on
Naked she is our guest. Stephanie Mills has been in
the industry for fifty plus years. Discovered extremely young, performed
(06:58):
at the Apollo when she was eleven years old, but
arguably her most notable and in my mind, iconic role
was when she was cast at seventeen years old and
the Broadway play The Wiz as Dorothy the Wizard of
Oz is considered a classic. Judy Garland, who played Dorothy,
(07:22):
is considered one of the best to ever do it
in this business. In this Hollywood business, and so when
the culture decided to reinvent the Wizard of Oz and
turn it to the Wiz and put it on Broadway,
she was casted as Dorothy, very similar to Halle Bailey
being cast as the Little Mermaid. It's the first time
(07:45):
that you can really see in recent memory, at least
in my mind, a young brown girl being told that
she is the same as everyone else. You don't just
get the black role. You get to play Dorothy. You're Dorothy.
And for me and for anyone who really understands what
(08:06):
it feels like to be set aside or treat it
differently because you are black or because you are marginalized,
this was an equalizing moment. We see you as Judy
Garland and you're gonna sing this role. You're gonna play
this role, and you're gonna sing with all of your heart,
and you're going to be amazing. Stephanie Mills is the Dorothy.
(08:29):
You guys watched The Whiz, I'm sure, and Diana Ross
played The Whiz phenomenally. Coincidentally, Stephanie Mill says that she
always looked up to Diana Ross and had no beef
with Dona Ross getting the movie role. She was meant
to play the Broadway role, so she didn't mind that
Dina Ross got the movie role. But today, on today's podcast,
that was redundant. But you know what I mean. On
(08:49):
the podcast today, she talks about being the first, which
is so difficult to do and she's done it with
so much grace and elegance. She talks about dating my Jackson. Wow,
just wow. Think about that for a moment. She talks
about how she loved Diana Ross and was so happy
(09:10):
for her and killed all narratives that said that she
she wanted to do the movie. She also talks about
the hate that she received from so many at seventeen
years old when she was given the role of Dorothy.
But more importantly, she talks about being an activist. She's layered,
(09:32):
she's textured, she's unapologetic, and today she gives us all
of that in the most naked way. Pay close attention
and please welcome Stephanie Mills to.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Naked Chion and Carrie Sheppy and Carrie Sheby.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I just talked to my booker and he told me
you were from Bedsty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Oh that yes, Brooklyn Brooklyn, New York Avenue Flat withs
ch Avenue Yeah, I'm a Betsty girl. But my mom
was from the South, so she brought us up from
New York and from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, So Charlotte, North Carolina is that roots for you?
And Bedside Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
That's roots for me. But I was born in New York.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, I'm asking you a question because not only am
I curious, but I am late in life, very infatuated
with Brooklyn specifically, and I have been going back and
forth from LA to Brooklyn. I'm born and raised in LA.
And so I want you if you can tell me
what was childhood like for you growing up in Bedsty
in Brooklyn and what you know of it in terms
(10:39):
of how it made you and formulated who you are today.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Oh my god. I was baptized at Cornerstone Baptist Church
in Brooklyn at the age of seven. I love growing up.
I went to public school PS two sixty nine, and
my brothers and my sisters went to Erasmus Hall. We
lived on New York. We lived all over Brooklyn. But
(11:04):
I loved going to the Jewish bakeries after school. I
would stop at the Jewish bakery every day and get
me a chocolate pastry. I love the chocolate pastries and
that I would walk to. My mother had a salon
on Utica Avenue, so I would walk to her salon
and stay there with her until she finished working, and
(11:26):
then we would go home. But I loved Brooklyn was everything,
you know. I had friends that would come down from
the Bronx and we would all get together and go
to Central Park. So it was fun. And I still
keep in touch with my girlfriends from back back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
There is something about Brooklyn for me even today that
feels very familiar, like it feels like family. It's nothing
nice walking down the street and just seeing us. I
was in Bedside specifically for a street fair a couple
of weeks ago, and the girls would double dutch in
and I was like, okay, let me jump in. You know,
it's very family. Do you think that has a lot
(12:06):
to do with your sound and how you have incorporated
who you are today?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Absolutely? My mother was an activist before she even knew
what that meant. She brought us up very much to
love ourselves, to love our community, love people in general,
but in particular, to love ourselves. And you're right. I
used to jump double dutch and I was so funny
that I would I when my sisters and them would play,
(12:31):
they'd make me the rag doll, because there's a rag
doll that just gets to jump when everybody else is tired.
But then when I had my friends, I would make
them a rag dolls so I could jump all the time.
But this, oh, and playing handball in the park, it's
Brooklyn just has a whole aura about it, you know.
And I'm glad I grew up in Beppisteives and I'm
(12:53):
glad I had that experience.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You tell me that you after school you would go
get a pace, which I think is beautiful from the
Jewish bakery, which is probably still somebody's life right now.
That's somebody's right of passage, if you will. And then
in your mom salon, what did your mom do? Hair?
Did she do? Now? Say what did she do? And
what were you doing?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
She did hair? And it was actually my mom and
my brother's shop, my brother Joey. And when my brother
went to the service, my mother took it over and
they owned the business. But I would just go. And
I had so much hair at that time that I
wouldn't let my mother comb it. So I started getting
perms very early so that my mother could comb my
(13:35):
hair because I was tender headed. But she would give
me perms and break my hair into little plants. And
I'd go to school, but I didn't do much. I
did my homework there and when it was time for
me to get my hair done, of course I was
there all the time. But she was my mother. I
really missed her. She passed away in two thousand and three,
and I really missed her. But now I've turned into
(14:00):
the mother that she was. With my son. I say
things that my mom would say, like, you know, in
our family, when your mother would call you, you dare
not say what. You just go. You share not say
because I used to say what she say. Don't you
say what to me? You just come when I call you.
So those things like that I really remember, and I
say that to my son.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Now, when did you discover your voice, your talent, your
acting ability?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I discovered it very young. I could actually sing songs
before I could actually talk, because my sister and them
used to watch The Three Musketeers and they used to
like the songs and stuff and songs that come on
the radio. They would teach teach it to me and
I was baptized at seven at Cornerstone Baptist Church and
I started singing then. And my first Broadway show, I
(14:53):
was eleven, eleven, eleven or twelve, but I had already
performed at their apolog Theater, you know, and won the
Amateur Night for six weeks in a row.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Can you tell me about that experience? I grew up
watching Apollo. An amateur knight was always something we use
it in today's terms, like if I'm at work and
I'm dealing with somebody, I'm like, it's amateur Knight at
the Apollo Theater right now, and they make me mad,
I'm all like, I whyms ideal? But then there were
always these people that just stood out. It was the
Black Star Search if you will, oh, absolutely experience for you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It was wonderful. I mean I was there for six
weeks in a row, so I got a chance to
see ROBERTA. Flack, the Isley Brothers, James Brown, King, Curtis,
all those people. And then later I got a professional
booking with the Isley Brothers. But it was wonderful that
make you sit downstairs like in a little basement, and
(15:50):
when it's your time to come up, you come up
and you up the rock and you go and you
sing your song. And then later for me to go
there and sell out seven shows was just very emotional
for me. But I love I loved my experience going
through what I did in the early part of my
(16:11):
career because it helped me and it molded me to
who I am today.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
How were you when you went to the Apollo, because
I have to imagine that has to be scary, because
it is historic.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
It's very scary. I had to be like eleven or twelve.
I was around eleven or twelve, and but I wasn't afraid.
I was always singing because I was singing in church
even before that, So I wasn't afraid to sing. And
I sang Who's Loving You? And for Once in My
Life by Stevie Wonder and Who's Loving You by the
Jackson Five. But I wasn't afraid because you know, my
(16:45):
mother listened to James She loved James Brown and the
Isley Brothers and ROBERTA. Flax. So to see all those
people was really quite nice, and they were very nice.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
They were very nice to me, do you because I
think of those songs, Wow, those songs are very hard
to sing, and if you weren't afraid, what did you
feel when you were on the stage at eleven years
old at the Apollo? What did you feel?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I felt love because the audience really liked my singing,
and I felt I just felt love. I felt like,
this is what I do. I was singing in church
and I belonged to a big church, so I was
used to singing in front of people, and when I
went out there and they loved my song, it just
made me want to give them more. But I felt
(17:38):
love and appreciated.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Wow, that's special, that's really special. And at that moment,
did you know that you would go on to have
a very successful career.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Or no more?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Singing just to sing?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I was singing just to sing. I didn't know that
I would have a successful career. It wasn't even in
my head. I was just singing to sing because I
loved to sing, as I do now. I love doing
my shows and being on the road. I really really do.
I just love to sing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So you leave the Apollo after six successful runs because
then if you get one good callback, you great. Right,
So you have big runs and people are like this,
Stephanie is something special, right, people are starting to notice you.
What do you do with that momentum? At eleven years.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Old, I listened to my parents and my sisters, you know,
I because they managed my career for a very long time.
So I just listened to them and did what they
told me to do, you know. Then I went up
for an audition for Maggie Flynn Broadway show that ran
on Broadway for about nine months with the Shirley Jones
(18:47):
and the late Jack Cassidy and Irene Cara and a
lot of people that are now that went on to
become famous. Was in that play. It was nine children,
orphanage children, and you just just kept going, like I
kept auditioning for different things, and the only process of
the business that I didn't like. I didn't like auditioning
(19:08):
because I found the people to be cold and cruel
at times, so I didn't like that. In fact, when
they wanted me to come in audition for The Whiz,
I did not want to go. I did not want
to go because I had gone up for so many
different things and didn't get it, so I didn't think
that I would get the role as Dorothy. But my
(19:29):
mom made me go and she went with me and
I'm glad I went.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So you led me to what I was building up to.
So let's just go there. The fiftieth anniversary quickly approaching,
and it's amazing, and it is one of these moments
that you are a luminary and it transcends for so
many people and it means so much, especially for the culture.
You go to this audition that you don't want to do,
(19:55):
walk me through the process, and your Mom's like, I'm
coming with you, and we're going to do it. Oftentimes
we feel like we got it. Tell me right.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I've never felt like I had anything when I auditioned,
because I'm terrible at auditioning. What did I sing? I
sang Danny Boy? And my hair was like this, it
was a puffy and I had on little slacks. I
remember it like it was yesterday. And Ken Harper was
in the audience and Vicki, who was the pasting agent
(20:27):
at that time, was there, and he had me to
sing and I sang, and then they called me back
a second time and I went, and then the third
time I was asked to come to Jeffrey Holder, Jeffrey
Holder's house, who was doing the costumes at that time.
And I met with Jeffrey Holder and Gilbert Moses and
Ken Harper, who was the producer, and Gilbert was the
(20:49):
first director of The Whiz and then but I all
that time when I was going back, I didn't think
of it like, oh, this is a big deal. I'm
doing it because I would watch those at the Bonds
every year on television. But never did I have in
my wildest dreams that I would ever play Dorothy. I
never even thought of it. So once I got the role,
(21:11):
I was really, really, really excited. When I was like sixteen.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's an iconic moment for every brown girl to play
a role that should be or traditionally given to a
white young girl. Yes, and I think of like the
Little Mermaid and the controversy that surrounded it, and when
Hallie got it, and I thought to myself, how sad,
(21:38):
But you were doing this year's generation.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Before I've hate mail. They did not like me. My
reviews were horrible. And it wasn't until my mom, who
belonged to Cornistan Baptist Church, who was a huge church,
and Ken Harper, the producer's mother belonged to a huge church,
would bring bus loads of people from the church and
(22:04):
then once we did our commercial, then the show kicked in.
But it was rough there for a minute because we
were supposed to open in December and we didn't open
until January fifth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You had hate mail before or doing the process.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Doing the process. Once we opened on Broadway, I got
hate mail. Yeah, what did it say? Say that I
was ugly and my breast was too big and Judy
Garland she'd get out of her grave and slap me.
But I didn't let it bother me. You know, I
never I don't know. I guess I'm just built that way.
But I've never let the negativity of the business affect me.
(22:43):
I've always been able to just keep going no matter
what anybody thought of what they said. I really didn't care.
I would just keep going on my path and stay
focused on what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
In the moment. Did you realize how historic that was?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You know? What's so funny. I didn't realize how historic
it was until I did the revival of it, like
a couple of years later, when I was like twenty five,
and then I realized, Wow, we really did something because
Louiz won seven Tonys and it was just amazing the
(23:20):
whole process. Felicia Rashad was in the chorus, and Andre
Deshields and Ted Ross, Mabel King and Stu Gillim, who
was a famous comedian and actor at that time, was
the very first scarecrow.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And when you look back on it and what you
were able to accomplish, does it feel as if it
was meant for you? It was set aside for you.
You were chosen and calling for that role.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Absolutely absolutely. I know that God just placed me in
that place. And I lived my life by keeping my
hands in guy's unchanging hands. Amen, And I think that's
what has kept me because this spect is wrong. It's
not easy and a lot of my peers are not
here anymore. So you really have to stay focused and
(24:14):
and sort of stay out of the way. Do we
do your job and then just get out of the way.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeall, This edition of Naked is juicy. This is juicy.
We get in T T T, and we're also being
activated because she is an activist. More with Stephanie Mills
when we pay the bills, Oh my god, I'm a rapper.
More with Stephanie Mills as we pay the bills Back
in the moment.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Every champion and carry champions. To be a champion, a
champion and carry Champion and carry chat be out a
champion and carry Champion and carry Champion entertainment and Naked
Weird Erry Champion and carry Champion is to be a
(24:56):
champion of Champion and carry champion.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And Carri Sheppi and Caeri Shepy.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to this edition of Naked. I'm excited.
Can you hear it in my voice? I hope that
you are listening and are paying close attention because we
have a legend and she has so many stories, and
she's dropping names like she's talking about Tom Jerry Lewis
and Frank Stevie, Wanda Lutha Van Dross, Dat Michael Jackson
hanging out and meeting Diana Ross, hanging out with Suzanda
(25:27):
Pass like this is legendary. She's mentioning names. These are
hall of fame names, right, the equivalent of sports. I
hope you enjoy the rest of the podcast. When and
I read and correct me if I'm wrong. One of
the people that you admired or admire was Diana Ross. Yes,
and what a full circle moment? Now was it before
(25:49):
or after she played the Whiz Or was it that
you were like, I love her. This is somebody that
I can look up to. I helped me with.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I loved Diana Ross from the very beginning, Diana Ross
and the Jackson Five and all the Motown people, Gladys Night.
So when I got a chance to meet her and
she would come to the show, and then when I
signed with Motown and I would go to her shows
at Caesus Palace, I was just like, oh my god,
I want to be Diana Ross. And even when she
(26:18):
did the movie, I visited the set, I wasn't like
I mean, people tried to make it like I was
upset or anything. I wasn't. I really I wasn't because
I loved her.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, that was gonna be my question. Oftentimes they make
us feel especially I'm sure when you were coming up
there can only be one and still in your business,
music industry, there can only be one who does this well.
When they tried to create that narrative, you did not
accept it. Why is that?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Cause I love Diana Ross. I loved her talent, and
maybe that was for her. Maybe the movie wasn't for me,
The play was for me. It would let me set
it up and then whoever comes after that. Yeah, But
I mean I'm still here, She's still here. We didn't compete,
you know. She was older than me at the time,
(27:08):
and now there's a young girl that's coming and she's
younger than me. So it's a circle that we have.
And I'm such a supporter of black people and of
black women. I choose to take the higher road than
the lower road.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I support that. And it's hard to do that when
you have so many outside voices that try to make
you feel a certain way. But The Wiz is such
an iconic film. The play is so essential to every
brown girl, and it's almost like we must be able
to watch this and see this to understand that we
belong in these spaces. Yes, and when you know you belong,
(27:50):
what does that feel like for you? For a Yeah,
tell me about that, Because you have it.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It's powerful. It's like, hey, I'm a hear and there's
nothing you can do about it. It's a powerful feeling.
But I didn't start to feel that power until later,
till I got older. You know, Like right now I'm
in the thalls of Hey, you know, I'm like and
(28:20):
I'm sixty six. So I'm like, hey, you know, but
it's powerful. It's powerful, and that's what I really want
black women to know, and black girls to know now
while they're young, that you are so powerful and you
where you're supposed to be. You belong there. Don't let
anybody tell you that you don't, because they're so quickly
want to tell us we don't belong, and we do.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You don't leave with fear, you leave off. And it's
such a refreshing approach. And I'm and authentic because it's
not common when you talk about the Wiz. I have
to ask, because I'm sure most ask, especially in the film,
and you've mentioned the Jackson five. You dated the greatest
entertainer of all time. Arguably, Yes, he had an experience
(29:06):
that Once again, I mean you've had experiences that are
one of one. What was it like to know him
Michael Jackson?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It was he was just a dude, you know, when
you when he was away from all of that, he
was just Michael, and he was loving, He was kind,
very determined. He knew what he wanted to do, and
we spent a lot of time together. But when it
(29:37):
started to shift and he went a different way. I
didn't want to go that way. I didn't want to
go that way. But it was magical. I could say
it was really because he was such a He was
really a genius and a very kind, kind human being.
I never heard Michael say anything bad about anyone, never
(30:01):
a crossword, never that term genius.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Can we focus on that for a moment because I agree,
and we don't get to see very many geniuses and
different disciplines. What or how do you describe him as
a genius? What did you see that made you feel
he was that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The sensitivity and the rhythm, the energy that he was
on his rhythm was different from anybody else's. You know
what I'm saying. You know, I mean he was very
meticulous about everything with his writing, doing the wrisk. He
was so driven, but not driven in a way where,
(30:41):
oh I gotta do this, I got it, but it
was just very soft and peaceful, not to hurt anybody else,
but he just wanted to do what he did and
to be able to do that was just brilliant to me.
To watch him and to watch him at home and
to watch him write it was it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And special because you can say you saw it not
many of us can say that. You then have went
on to have such a successful career, and when you
step into the light as your own, outside of Dorothy,
outside of everything else, you are now singing, and you
(31:21):
are having concerts and tours. How are you as an artist?
How do you want people to perceive you as an artist?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
A loving artist, artist that that understands, that stands up
for her people, love for people, and love everyone else,
but love for people, and and and and an artist
that's not afraid to be black.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
M So yes, let's talk about that. Because we are black.
This is what we do, and this is what we do.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
There are so many times when we get to a
level of success that we feel like we have to
compromise our blackness or quiet that side of us, that
side of us. When did you decide because you said
your mom was always an activist, so you had it
in you. When did you say, yeah, I can't quiet
that part because that's who I am.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
When I was in my thirties, because I realized that
you have to know when to go home from the party.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That means when you're at a party and things are
starting to get crazy, people are starting to do things
that you don't like and you don't understand you need
to leave. And a lot of artists don't realize that
they need to leave, and they also need to be disciplined.
I am so glad that I came from the theater
and I was around that motel energy and machine that
(32:50):
I knew what to do, how to do an interview,
how to say certain things, how to keep your life private.
That's all lost today. You know. I went on tour.
It was me and Luther Nick and Val Ashford and Simpson. Uh,
all of us was on the Buttfest. We never argued
about who got time and who didn't get time, who
(33:12):
went last and who didn't. It was a love best
I don't see that a lot today. So I try
to walk the walk and talk the talk. You know
a lot of people say, oh, you sound militant, and
you sound just because I love being black, just because
I came from my mother and I respect what she
(33:34):
gave birth to me and my father. No, you know,
it doesn't mean that you're racist or that's your prejudice,
because you love who you are.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We have been through a lot this country within the
last three years. Yes, in twenty twenty when the pandemic
hit and we were all at home and we were
forced as an entire world globally to watch the injustice
that happens to us as black folks. When we had
to sit and see what happened to George Floyd and
(34:04):
Breonna Taylor, and the list goes on, because but everyone
had to watch it, and there was this collective thought
of how can I help? And here we are fast
forward just you know, just two and a half years later,
and I feel like all of the work, all of
the lip service has been reversed. When you have this platform,
(34:28):
how do you address it? If at all?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, I address it. If you go to my page,
I address everything, like I'm going to Alabama and doing
a free concert August thirty. First. I don't condone violence,
but I was very happy that our people stepped up
and didn't allow them to beat that man to death.
We can no longer stand and videotape somebody being choked today,
(34:54):
somebody being beaten to death. We just gonna have to
take one for the team. There's no way, you know,
I couldn't have stood there and watched them kill George Floyd.
I couldn't have they probably would have shot me or
something or whatever. But I could not have stood there
and him begging and pleading for his mother, and nobody
tried to push those policemen off. You know what I'm saying,
(35:16):
We can no longer, We can't afford to do that
because we see that they will turn everything back.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
The humanity of it all. If you don't think we're human,
if you can't see our humanness, you can't treat us
as if we're humans.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
No, you can't, you cannot.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I know that those who watched, as we watched them testify,
have tremendous trauma and grief, and they feel so much
guilt and they wish, especially the black folks who watch,
wish they would have done something. So your sentiment isn't off.
I think that you're right in saying that you can't
watch another human being, especially not another black man, being
(35:54):
beat and do nothing about it.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You know you can't.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Their sentiment read that you were going to Alabama to
give a free concert, and the concert is to say
what it is to say, it's just proud of you.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The concert is to say I'm proud of you, I
love you. Let's have peace, Let's spread love. Let's put
because that's what they did to me. That was love.
To help that man, you know, because they all jumped
on him. That was love. So just keep that up
to spread that. And we have to I think that
we do have to send a message that you were
(36:32):
just not going to tolerate you jumping on us and
killing us. We have to send a signal like he
threw up his head like that, just like here, we
we're all here. We're here all about us, right.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, And so that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's like I'm here, I'm here for you. I'm coming
there to be with you, and I'm going there and
I want to meet the people, I want to go
where it happen. I want to do all of that
because I am there. I'm I'm the kind of sister
that like, I'm down with you. We gone down, I'm
down with.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Do you think that you're one of a few that
are so bold about how proud you are to represent
the culture and unapologetic in your blackness? Or do yes?
You do? Why do you feel it?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I well, because I'm really I say what I want
to say and I and I really don't have any fear.
The only fear I only fear God. I don't fear
you know people, I know they are powerful people, but
I don't believe that there's anybody more powerful than God.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And I just feel like, when are we going to
stand up and say enough is enough? With human just
like you are? And I love people. I am not.
I'm pressed to this, but I'm not racist. Because racist
as you ate a person because of the color of
this skin. I'm prejudice against hate. I'm prejudiced against you
beating up on my brother, beating up on my sister,
(38:11):
killing my people. I'm prejudice against that. But I'm not racist.
It's not that I hate white people. I hate spect.
I love everybody. But I do not want you to
beat on us. I don't. I don't want that. I
don't want that. So I'm gonna stand with my own.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
What is the cost of speaking out?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Boy? It hasn't cost me anything. I mean, I I
haven't lost anything, and I'm not cruel with it. I'm
not insensitive with it, but I do. I love being
block and I don't think there's nothing wrong with that.
I love being a black woman. I love everything about it.
(38:52):
Every other woman wants to be and have what we have.
I'll thick clips, I think behind, I'll think this. They
pay a lot of money to look like us. So
we must be doing something right.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And we should own it and we should and I
do yes, amen, amen, while we at church. So so
when I when I talk to you, and as you
say on your page, I agree. I I just wanted
to make it very clear. I will tell you there
(39:24):
is a generation that may not know how invaluable you are.
So I appreciate you for doing this, this interview and
being unapologetic. But there is a true sense of pride
and and and oneness that I find that we're losing
with certain generations. I don't know if it's because we
(39:47):
want money, or if we want to be popular, or
if we want to be influencers, but there is this
fear that is installed in us. And I don't know
where that comes from, because I I had it, you know,
when I was at ESPN, I say this often. I
knew I didn't have my voice. I couldn't find my
voice because I felt very afraid of what I might lose.
(40:08):
And when I said what's the cost, that's what I feel.
Everyone is worried about the cost yes, and it comes
to everybody differently. Everyone doesn't have to, in my opinion,
be so unapologetic and be free with their words. It's
just it's different for everyone. But is there a moment
or is or how did your mother raise you? Because
(40:29):
this is constitutional, it is in your spirit and you
have it. Was your mother always this way? Was your
father this way?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
My mother was always this way. My mother when we
would be in the car driving when I was older girl,
and if she saw policeman like harassing or talking to
a black person and they a couple of carts, she
would make my father stop and she would get out
of the car and say, what's going on here? Why
do you have them against the I remember that as
(40:58):
a little bir Why do you have them against the fence?
What's going on is? She wanted to know what, why,
and she would stay there until it was spending. We'd
stay there, I'd sit in the car, we'd stay there
until they kind of did what they were going to do,
and then they either let the person go or arrest them.
But my mother was very concerned about the people in
our neighborhood and it's it's in me and I just can't.
(41:21):
She made me proud to be who I am, to
be a little black girl going to school, singing in
the in the glee club. I was a brownie. I
sold uh uh chocolate chip cookies and stuff even though
I ate mine and my mother would have sence take
the money because I'm like, well, these cookies are good,
(41:42):
you know, but uh, that's the way she brought me
and I and I have really turned in to my mother.
I'm really all the things that the wisdom that she
gave me has helped me maintain and and and stayed
alive in this business, which is very hard to do.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's impossible to do because his business, as all business will,
it will eat you up and spit you out, and
you lose your identity and you forget your foundation. And
that's where all the problems begin. You reference your mother.
Your son wrote a book from my understanding about you.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Correct, Yes, he wrote a book about his adventures. It's
the call the Adventures of forad J and my son
functions at a very high level. He's an a student
and he's now finishing up his second book, which is
called The Red Virus. And he's just funny. He's really funny,
and I was so glad I was able to have
(42:37):
a baby, and my mom saw him and my dad
saw him because they just loved Barad when he came up.
But that is my soul. That is that is why
I still do everything. It's for him.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Does he does he reference or describe you as you
describe your mother. Do you see the similarities that he
can that he has that he has written down or documented.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
He has all kinds of names for me that he
calls me, but he loves He calls me snookums, and
he loves me. He kisses me every day and he
tells me what a great mom I am and everything.
So he yes, I get that saying he loves me.
There's no love like a child. Because I was just
(43:20):
talking about it with Karina. I call her my sister
because we're so close, and I was like, you know,
we will just do anything for our children. I would
walk through fire.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
From my child, absolutely, I just would. It's instinctive. You
can't help it.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah, It's like when you see a mama bear protecting
her cubs, like, yes, protecting her babies. Like He's just instinctive.
It's what we do. You can't.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
It's what we do and you can't help it. It's
what we do.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
We do every champion and carry champions. To be a champion,
a champion and carry champion and carry chat. Be a
champion and carry champion and carry chat Entertainment can make
it work. Kerry Champion, then carry champion is to be
a champion, a champion and Carri Chapi and the champion,
(44:10):
the Carri Sheppion and Carrity.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
You are going on tour and I think it was
a twenty fifth think you starting Detroit? Maybe am I accurate?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And actually I'm in Harlem when the New York New
York wise up and then I go to Detroit. But
I've been on the road all these years. I've been
you know, working all this time.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, And and I don't know if there was a
joke I like I said. I just spoke with someone
who interviewed you. He said that you guys were kind
of you were joking about maybe thinking of bringing Babyface
on after the Anita Baker debacle. Was that he said?
Was that true? Were you bringing asking him to have
was he being funny? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
He told me to ask you about it. U, you know,
at our age with sixties. We're in our sixties. Whatever
we've been in this we shouldn't be fighting with each other.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I love I love Anita, and I love Babybase. But
I did say, well, babyface, you can come on the
road with me. Yeah, I did say it. I did.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
I love it because remember the love fest. We just
had a love fest. You had Asher and Simpson, remember said.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. I think we said Luther, Yeah, Luther and Gladys.
There was a lot of us on that show back
in the day. It was just a love fest. Stevie.
Wonder you know what.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
You were talking about. Legends. I can't even imagine what
that would look like today, you legendary. Legendary is what
you're telling me right now. Legendary.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yes, yes, we had a great time. Though.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
What was the Motown experience? Like you said to me
briefly that it taught you a lot of things in
terms of how to conduct yourself as as an artist.
With Motown and Motown produced, I mean had some of
the greatest of I mean literally how I was raised,
cleaning up the house, what I listened to. If there
was no Motown, I wouldn't be able to describe what
it feels like to sweep the carpet on a Saturday.
(46:11):
So I tell me about what that experience was like
to be in that, in that in that group of
people that were considered the best of the best, the
people who spoke to our hearts and our spirits as
a culture, and the world was in truly copying it.
The Beatles bit, the sound everybody's biting, the sound that
was already created that Moti.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yes, yes, we created everything. It was wonderful. Susanne Depez
used to take me to Vegas. I used to go
to Vegas with that because I loved Suzanne and I
wanted to be around her, so she would I would
be like following her all around and we would go
to the Dina Wash shows and the jack So she
knew I was madly in love with Michael and wanted
(46:53):
to be near him, so she made sure I was
close to the Jackson vibe. But they taught you how
to be boys. They taught you how to do an interview,
what to say, what not to say, And I'm so
glad I went through that. And then when I lived
in California, I took an etiquette class because I just
wanted to know. I'm very h like if I see
(47:15):
something on television I want or to make myself better,
I will try that. I will say, well maybe I
should try that or try this. So I'm I'm like that.
I shop all the time, and I and I saved you. Now,
shopping is my advice. Shopping, baby, that's same.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
SA save too much of I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I didn't even know I happened one of this.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I didn't know I had it. Oh, yes, I can relate.
I'm curious. Are there any other projects that you want
to talk about before I jump? I want to make
sure that I hit everything and I didn't want to
take up too much of your time. You have been
more than generous, more than generals.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Thank you. I've enjoyed myself. Know I'm working on some
music stuff, but I can't talk about that now. But
uh no, just my shows that are coming up. I'm
coming back to uh uh n j pack in January,
but I'm booked until December. So I'm I'm working and
I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
And so we can check. We can go online and
see your dates and find you and and support you
in every way and maybe and maybe you never know, maybe,
baby Face might pop up. We don't know, we'll.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Maybe that would be a nice tour to do baby
face and I yes, you are are You are legendary
and you are gracious and those two things are a
beautiful combination and rare.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
And I thank you so much for just taking the
time to talk to me and being so pleasant. It's
refreshing because you never know what you're gonna get and
I was please, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
You're welcome, and thank you for wanting to I'm honored
that you wanted to talk to me, so thank you.
You'd be safe out here. I'm worried about don't worry
about what people say or what they say.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Amen. I received that you. You spoke to my heart today.
And a lot of Brown girls thank you very much.
We need, we need to see more of you, unapologetic
and proud to be who you are.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
We thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
So I just have to say wow, wow, wow, wow
wow wow. Not only did she say she dated Michael Jackson,
not only was she the very first Dorothy that was black.
Not only does she admire one Diana Rossall want to
hang out with her, she was a motown artist that
got to sit and go on tour with so many people,
the likes of like a Luther and Luther Vandross. She
(49:32):
hung out with Luther Vandross. May he rest in peace.
She talked about Stevie Wonder being on tour with her,
Gladys Knight, Astrad and Simpson. When I tell you, these
are legends. These are people who create the music that
you listen to today in some form or fashion. And she
talks about it so very casually. This girl from Brooklyn
who liked to walk home from school every day and
stop at the Jewish bakery and get a chocolate pastry.
(49:56):
This girl who went to her mom's shop, This little girl,
this little brown girl who went to her shopped to
get her hair done in two little platts. This little
girl at eleven years old, who went to the legendary
Apollo Theater and won six times in a row. And
she did not want to audition for the Whiz, but
she went with her mom because she thought auditioning was
too cold and cruel, but she did it anyway. She
(50:17):
is a legend, and as she sits in all her
glory at sixty six years old, she is still performing.
She seems extremely content and happy with her career. But
more importantly, she speaks up for the culture. She's given
a free concert for the folks of Montgomery, Alabama, because
she loved what those folks did. She said, she's not racist.
(50:40):
She might be prejudiced against hate, but she's not racist.
And she's saying, I'm supporting those who came to the
rescue of a black man who needed help because we
as a culture can no longer sit by and watch
and record while we're being attacked. All of that, all
of that, all of that I agree with. There was
nothing wrong with what she said and essence she's saying,
(51:05):
protect humanity, and essen she's saying, she's unapologetically black, all
the while being one of one, being the first in
so many ways, and I think that's special. I hope
you took some lessons away from this. Share this podcast
with friends, but more importantly, go check her out. She's
on tour. I am Stephaniemills dot com. That is the website,
(51:27):
I Am Stephaniemills dot com. Look for a location near you.
By the time this podcast pops out, you will be
able to see her. Perhaps if you are in Alabama,
or in New York or in Detroit, or many of
the places that she plans to perform at. Still has
a voice, still has something special to share with us,
and I'm so glad that she was able to do
it on this edition of Naked. I appreciate you guys
(51:49):
for listening. Thank you all for the support.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yes
I say what I want to say, and I really
don't have any fear. The only fear I only fear God.
And I just feel like, when are we going to
stand up and say enough is enough with human just
like you are? And I love people. I am not
I'm prejudiced, but I'm not racist because the racist as
you rate a person because of the color of this skid.
(00:21):
I'm prejudice against hate. I'm prejudiced against you beating up
on my brother, beating up on my sister, killing my people.
I'm prejudice against that, But I'm not racist. It's not
that I hate white people. I hate spect I love everybody.
But I do not want you to beat on us.
I don't. I don't want that. I don't want that.
(00:42):
So I'm gonna stand with my own own.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
When I think of home, I think of a place
where ah, okay, now I'm not a singer, but oh
don't I wish I could say God knew not to
give me no singing abilities. Today on Naked we have
Stephanie mil.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's the greatest sports in the entertainment. Can Naked win? Carrype?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And Carrie Chappy is to be a champion of Champion
and Carrie Chappy and the Champion and Carry Sheppion and
Carrie Shepym Naked Ward.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to another edition of Naked. I'm
going to begin this edition of Naked talking about what
happened uh in Alabama. And there is a reason. By
now we have all and I know what I say,
by now we have all culturally have seen what went
down in Alabama. And I'm talking about the river boat.
(01:45):
I'm talking about the brawl as they'd like to call it.
I am talking about a security guard trying to do
his job and tell these folks, and by these folks,
I mean a group of white people that they cannot
park their boat at this dock, They cannot dock their
boat at this particular spot because they're trying to bring
in the cruise ship that took people on a tour. Right,
(02:08):
and it's not a cruise ship, it's like a river boat.
They were doing a little sail, a little turnabout in
the river. Obviously we know what happened. The white people,
because I'm going to make it really plain, started to
attack a black man who was doing his job. And yes,
drinks clearly or involved. It seemed as if this group
(02:31):
of boaters, people out on a weekend excursion, enjoying themselves,
had too much to drink, but that is still no excuse.
This man was doing his job. He said, hey, you
guys are not allowed to dock your boat here. We
have this river boat getting ready to come in and
you're in the wrong location. And they started to push
and shove. You guys know what happened and leave it
to the internet. The black folks of the Internet and
(02:55):
probably others participated. But not only did they make fun
of this moment, they made something that could have been
really really divisive, funny and hilarious. A group of white
people attacking a black man is not something that we
want to see. That situation could have turned into a
deadly situation in a matter of moments, until we saw
(03:16):
a group of other blacks, blacks who worked they're also
on the dog, on the cruise ship, on the tour ship.
If you will, I'm trying to find the words, come
in and help this guy. And then some bystanders who
were black as well, who were like, no, I'm sorry,
this is not about to go down. You're not about
to beat up this black man. This security guard who's
doing his job. I'm leaving out names because I don't
(03:39):
want to get two in the weeds. But at the
end of the day, what we saw was this black man,
this security guard, take his hat off, flip it in
the air, and that was a signal like, save this
ship because it's about to be on, y'all need to
come help me. They trying to jump me. They at me,
they at me, and they were really at him. Black
man sitting there trying to stave off a group of
(04:00):
white men and women, and the optics are not are
not good. However, when peers came to the rescue, other
black men came to the rescue. Leave it to the
internet to tell you what it really means. There were
jokes about the guy who jumped in the water and
swam across to save the black man or to help
(04:23):
the black man fight. There were jokes about how black
men were skipping to the fight, which meant, okay, it's
about to be on. You know what a skip is, right,
And there were just so many jokes that were flying
around and it was really funny. I don't care if
you don't think it was funny. It was funny. The
optics in terms of what happened not funny, but how
(04:43):
we turned trauma into something hilarious is what we do
as a culture. No one. I can't think of a
group of people that turned trauma into comedy the way
in which black folks do it. And we laughed because
other we'd be angry and we'd be crying and we'd
be sad. It would be our existence if we continued
(05:06):
to talk about what was wrong and how we feel
wronged and how we're tired of the injustice and how
bad people treat us. We turned it into something extremely funny.
And the top of it all off, those white folks got
they butts tapped, you know what I mean, and they
started it. It was self defense. You can't run around
(05:27):
just punching and beating up on people, specifically black folks,
and think there will be no repercussions. And the way
in which the culture, the community, the mayor of Montgomery,
Alabama handled this situation was a perfect example of no,
we're not gonna let this ride. We're tired, we're sick,
(05:48):
and we're tired and retired and we're sick. But there
was so much humor in that, and since then we
have seen people with hilarious memes. We've seen luminary speak
out saying they support the group of people who protected
the super security guard. We've seen people donate to a
fund to help get people out of jail and help
(06:10):
other people get attorneys because people were arrested in the incident.
But have we heard of someone giving a concert. Stephanie Mills.
Stephanie Mills, the legendary singer, songwriter, award winning artist, is
giving a concert for the folks in Montgomery, Alabama to
(06:34):
promote peace and love and to say I see you
and I'm glad that you did not let that black
man take a beating without helping him. And today on
Naked she is our guest. Stephanie Mills has been in
the industry for fifty plus years. Discovered extremely young, performed
(06:58):
at the Apollo when she was eleven years old, but
arguably her most notable and in my mind, iconic role
was when she was cast at seventeen years old and
the Broadway play The Wiz as Dorothy the Wizard of
Oz is considered a classic. Judy Garland, who played Dorothy,
(07:22):
is considered one of the best to ever do it
in this business. In this Hollywood business, and so when
the culture decided to reinvent the Wizard of Oz and
turn it to the Wiz and put it on Broadway,
she was casted as Dorothy, very similar to Halle Bailey
being cast as the Little Mermaid. It's the first time
(07:45):
that you can really see in recent memory, at least
in my mind, a young brown girl being told that
she is the same as everyone else. You don't just
get the black role. You get to play Dorothy. You're Dorothy.
And for me and for anyone who really understands what
(08:06):
it feels like to be set aside or treat it
differently because you are black or because you are marginalized,
this was an equalizing moment. We see you as Judy
Garland and you're gonna sing this role. You're gonna play
this role, and you're gonna sing with all of your heart,
and you're going to be amazing. Stephanie Mills is the Dorothy.
(08:29):
You guys watched The Whiz, I'm sure, and Diana Ross
played The Whiz phenomenally. Coincidentally, Stephanie Mill says that she
always looked up to Diana Ross and had no beef
with Dona Ross getting the movie role. She was meant
to play the Broadway role, so she didn't mind that
Dina Ross got the movie role. But today, on today's podcast,
that was redundant. But you know what I mean. On
(08:49):
the podcast today, she talks about being the first, which
is so difficult to do and she's done it with
so much grace and elegance. She talks about dating my Jackson. Wow,
just wow. Think about that for a moment. She talks
about how she loved Diana Ross and was so happy
(09:10):
for her and killed all narratives that said that she
she wanted to do the movie. She also talks about
the hate that she received from so many at seventeen
years old when she was given the role of Dorothy.
But more importantly, she talks about being an activist. She's layered,
(09:32):
she's textured, she's unapologetic, and today she gives us all
of that in the most naked way. Pay close attention
and please welcome Stephanie Mills to.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Naked Chion and Carrie Sheppy and Carrie Sheby.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I just talked to my booker and he told me
you were from Bedsty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Oh that yes, Brooklyn Brooklyn, New York Avenue Flat withs
ch Avenue Yeah, I'm a Betsty girl. But my mom
was from the South, so she brought us up from
New York and from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, So Charlotte, North Carolina is that roots for you?
And Bedside Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
That's roots for me. But I was born in New York.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, I'm asking you a question because not only am
I curious, but I am late in life, very infatuated
with Brooklyn specifically, and I have been going back and
forth from LA to Brooklyn. I'm born and raised in LA.
And so I want you if you can tell me
what was childhood like for you growing up in Bedsty
in Brooklyn and what you know of it in terms
(10:39):
of how it made you and formulated who you are today.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Oh my god. I was baptized at Cornerstone Baptist Church
in Brooklyn at the age of seven. I love growing up.
I went to public school PS two sixty nine, and
my brothers and my sisters went to Erasmus Hall. We
lived on New York. We lived all over Brooklyn. But
(11:04):
I loved going to the Jewish bakeries after school. I
would stop at the Jewish bakery every day and get
me a chocolate pastry. I love the chocolate pastries and
that I would walk to. My mother had a salon
on Utica Avenue, so I would walk to her salon
and stay there with her until she finished working, and
(11:26):
then we would go home. But I loved Brooklyn was everything,
you know. I had friends that would come down from
the Bronx and we would all get together and go
to Central Park. So it was fun. And I still
keep in touch with my girlfriends from back back in
the day.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
There is something about Brooklyn for me even today that
feels very familiar, like it feels like family. It's nothing
nice walking down the street and just seeing us. I
was in Bedside specifically for a street fair a couple
of weeks ago, and the girls would double dutch in
and I was like, okay, let me jump in. You know,
it's very family. Do you think that has a lot
(12:06):
to do with your sound and how you have incorporated
who you are today?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Absolutely? My mother was an activist before she even knew
what that meant. She brought us up very much to
love ourselves, to love our community, love people in general,
but in particular, to love ourselves. And you're right. I
used to jump double dutch and I was so funny
that I would I when my sisters and them would play,
(12:31):
they'd make me the rag doll, because there's a rag
doll that just gets to jump when everybody else is tired.
But then when I had my friends, I would make
them a rag dolls so I could jump all the time.
But this, oh, and playing handball in the park, it's
Brooklyn just has a whole aura about it, you know.
And I'm glad I grew up in Beppisteives and I'm
(12:53):
glad I had that experience.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You tell me that you after school you would go
get a pace, which I think is beautiful from the
Jewish bakery, which is probably still somebody's life right now.
That's somebody's right of passage, if you will. And then
in your mom salon, what did your mom do? Hair?
Did she do? Now? Say what did she do? And
what were you doing?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
She did hair? And it was actually my mom and
my brother's shop, my brother Joey. And when my brother
went to the service, my mother took it over and
they owned the business. But I would just go. And
I had so much hair at that time that I
wouldn't let my mother comb it. So I started getting
perms very early so that my mother could comb my
(13:35):
hair because I was tender headed. But she would give
me perms and break my hair into little plants. And
I'd go to school, but I didn't do much. I
did my homework there and when it was time for
me to get my hair done, of course I was
there all the time. But she was my mother. I
really missed her. She passed away in two thousand and three,
and I really missed her. But now I've turned into
(14:00):
the mother that she was. With my son. I say
things that my mom would say, like, you know, in
our family, when your mother would call you, you dare
not say what. You just go. You share not say
because I used to say what she say. Don't you
say what to me? You just come when I call you.
So those things like that I really remember, and I
say that to my son.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Now, when did you discover your voice, your talent, your
acting ability?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I discovered it very young. I could actually sing songs
before I could actually talk, because my sister and them
used to watch The Three Musketeers and they used to
like the songs and stuff and songs that come on
the radio. They would teach teach it to me and
I was baptized at seven at Cornerstone Baptist Church and
I started singing then. And my first Broadway show, I
(14:53):
was eleven, eleven, eleven or twelve, but I had already
performed at their apolog Theater, you know, and won the
Amateur Night for six weeks in a row.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Can you tell me about that experience? I grew up
watching Apollo. An amateur knight was always something we use
it in today's terms, like if I'm at work and
I'm dealing with somebody, I'm like, it's amateur Knight at
the Apollo Theater right now, and they make me mad,
I'm all like, I whyms ideal? But then there were
always these people that just stood out. It was the
Black Star Search if you will, oh, absolutely experience for you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It was wonderful. I mean I was there for six
weeks in a row, so I got a chance to
see ROBERTA. Flack, the Isley Brothers, James Brown, King, Curtis,
all those people. And then later I got a professional
booking with the Isley Brothers. But it was wonderful that
make you sit downstairs like in a little basement, and
(15:50):
when it's your time to come up, you come up
and you up the rock and you go and you
sing your song. And then later for me to go
there and sell out seven shows was just very emotional
for me. But I love I loved my experience going
through what I did in the early part of my
(16:11):
career because it helped me and it molded me to
who I am today.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
How were you when you went to the Apollo, because
I have to imagine that has to be scary, because
it is historic.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
It's very scary. I had to be like eleven or twelve.
I was around eleven or twelve, and but I wasn't afraid.
I was always singing because I was singing in church
even before that, So I wasn't afraid to sing. And
I sang Who's Loving You? And for Once in My
Life by Stevie Wonder and Who's Loving You by the
Jackson Five. But I wasn't afraid because you know, my
(16:45):
mother listened to James She loved James Brown and the
Isley Brothers and ROBERTA. Flax. So to see all those
people was really quite nice, and they were very nice.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
They were very nice to me, do you because I
think of those songs, Wow, those songs are very hard
to sing, and if you weren't afraid, what did you
feel when you were on the stage at eleven years
old at the Apollo? What did you feel?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I felt love because the audience really liked my singing,
and I felt I just felt love. I felt like,
this is what I do. I was singing in church
and I belonged to a big church, so I was
used to singing in front of people, and when I
went out there and they loved my song, it just
made me want to give them more. But I felt
(17:38):
love and appreciated.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Wow, that's special, that's really special. And at that moment,
did you know that you would go on to have
a very successful career.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Or no more?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Singing just to sing?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I was singing just to sing. I didn't know that
I would have a successful career. It wasn't even in
my head. I was just singing to sing because I
loved to sing, as I do now. I love doing
my shows and being on the road. I really really do.
I just love to sing.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So you leave the Apollo after six successful runs because
then if you get one good callback, you great. Right,
So you have big runs and people are like this,
Stephanie is something special, right, people are starting to notice you.
What do you do with that momentum? At eleven years.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Old, I listened to my parents and my sisters, you know,
I because they managed my career for a very long time.
So I just listened to them and did what they
told me to do, you know. Then I went up
for an audition for Maggie Flynn Broadway show that ran
on Broadway for about nine months with the Shirley Jones
(18:47):
and the late Jack Cassidy and Irene Cara and a
lot of people that are now that went on to
become famous. Was in that play. It was nine children,
orphanage children, and you just just kept going, like I
kept auditioning for different things, and the only process of
the business that I didn't like. I didn't like auditioning
(19:08):
because I found the people to be cold and cruel
at times, so I didn't like that. In fact, when
they wanted me to come in audition for The Whiz,
I did not want to go. I did not want
to go because I had gone up for so many
different things and didn't get it, so I didn't think
that I would get the role as Dorothy. But my
(19:29):
mom made me go and she went with me and
I'm glad I went.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So you led me to what I was building up to.
So let's just go there. The fiftieth anniversary quickly approaching,
and it's amazing, and it is one of these moments
that you are a luminary and it transcends for so
many people and it means so much, especially for the culture.
You go to this audition that you don't want to do,
(19:55):
walk me through the process, and your Mom's like, I'm
coming with you, and we're going to do it. Oftentimes
we feel like we got it. Tell me right.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I've never felt like I had anything when I auditioned,
because I'm terrible at auditioning. What did I sing? I
sang Danny Boy? And my hair was like this, it
was a puffy and I had on little slacks. I
remember it like it was yesterday. And Ken Harper was
in the audience and Vicki, who was the pasting agent
(20:27):
at that time, was there, and he had me to
sing and I sang, and then they called me back
a second time and I went, and then the third
time I was asked to come to Jeffrey Holder, Jeffrey
Holder's house, who was doing the costumes at that time.
And I met with Jeffrey Holder and Gilbert Moses and
Ken Harper, who was the producer, and Gilbert was the
(20:49):
first director of The Whiz and then but I all
that time when I was going back, I didn't think
of it like, oh, this is a big deal. I'm
doing it because I would watch those at the Bonds
every year on television. But never did I have in
my wildest dreams that I would ever play Dorothy. I
never even thought of it. So once I got the role,
(21:11):
I was really, really, really excited. When I was like sixteen.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's an iconic moment for every brown girl to play
a role that should be or traditionally given to a
white young girl. Yes, and I think of like the
Little Mermaid and the controversy that surrounded it, and when
Hallie got it, and I thought to myself, how sad,
(21:38):
But you were doing this year's generation.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Before I've hate mail. They did not like me. My
reviews were horrible. And it wasn't until my mom, who
belonged to Cornistan Baptist Church, who was a huge church,
and Ken Harper, the producer's mother belonged to a huge church,
would bring bus loads of people from the church and
(22:04):
then once we did our commercial, then the show kicked in.
But it was rough there for a minute because we
were supposed to open in December and we didn't open
until January fifth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You had hate mail before or doing the process.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Doing the process. Once we opened on Broadway, I got
hate mail. Yeah, what did it say? Say that I
was ugly and my breast was too big and Judy
Garland she'd get out of her grave and slap me.
But I didn't let it bother me. You know, I
never I don't know. I guess I'm just built that way.
But I've never let the negativity of the business affect me.
(22:43):
I've always been able to just keep going no matter
what anybody thought of what they said. I really didn't care.
I would just keep going on my path and stay
focused on what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
In the moment. Did you realize how historic that was?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You know? What's so funny. I didn't realize how historic
it was until I did the revival of it, like
a couple of years later, when I was like twenty five,
and then I realized, Wow, we really did something because
Louiz won seven Tonys and it was just amazing the
(23:20):
whole process. Felicia Rashad was in the chorus, and Andre
Deshields and Ted Ross, Mabel King and Stu Gillim, who
was a famous comedian and actor at that time, was
the very first scarecrow.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And when you look back on it and what you
were able to accomplish, does it feel as if it
was meant for you? It was set aside for you.
You were chosen and calling for that role.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Absolutely absolutely. I know that God just placed me in
that place. And I lived my life by keeping my
hands in guy's unchanging hands. Amen, And I think that's
what has kept me because this spect is wrong. It's
not easy and a lot of my peers are not
here anymore. So you really have to stay focused and
(24:14):
and sort of stay out of the way. Do we
do your job and then just get out of the way.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeall, This edition of Naked is juicy. This is juicy.
We get in T T T, and we're also being
activated because she is an activist. More with Stephanie Mills
when we pay the bills, Oh my god, I'm a rapper.
More with Stephanie Mills as we pay the bills Back
in the moment.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Every champion and carry champions. To be a champion, a
champion and carry Champion and carry chat be out a
champion and carry Champion and carry Champion entertainment and Naked
Weird Erry Champion and carry Champion is to be a
(24:56):
champion of Champion and carry champion.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And Carri Sheppi and Caeri Shepy.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to this edition of Naked. I'm excited.
Can you hear it in my voice? I hope that
you are listening and are paying close attention because we
have a legend and she has so many stories, and
she's dropping names like she's talking about Tom Jerry Lewis
and Frank Stevie, Wanda Lutha Van Dross, Dat Michael Jackson
hanging out and meeting Diana Ross, hanging out with Suzanda
(25:27):
Pass like this is legendary. She's mentioning names. These are
hall of fame names, right, the equivalent of sports. I
hope you enjoy the rest of the podcast. When and
I read and correct me if I'm wrong. One of
the people that you admired or admire was Diana Ross. Yes,
and what a full circle moment? Now was it before
(25:49):
or after she played the Whiz Or was it that
you were like, I love her. This is somebody that
I can look up to. I helped me with.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I loved Diana Ross from the very beginning, Diana Ross
and the Jackson Five and all the Motown people, Gladys Night.
So when I got a chance to meet her and
she would come to the show, and then when I
signed with Motown and I would go to her shows
at Caesus Palace, I was just like, oh my god,
I want to be Diana Ross. And even when she
(26:18):
did the movie, I visited the set, I wasn't like
I mean, people tried to make it like I was
upset or anything. I wasn't. I really I wasn't because
I loved her.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, that was gonna be my question. Oftentimes they make
us feel especially I'm sure when you were coming up
there can only be one and still in your business,
music industry, there can only be one who does this well.
When they tried to create that narrative, you did not
accept it. Why is that?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Cause I love Diana Ross. I loved her talent, and
maybe that was for her. Maybe the movie wasn't for me,
The play was for me. It would let me set
it up and then whoever comes after that. Yeah, But
I mean I'm still here, She's still here. We didn't compete,
you know. She was older than me at the time,
(27:08):
and now there's a young girl that's coming and she's
younger than me. So it's a circle that we have.
And I'm such a supporter of black people and of
black women. I choose to take the higher road than
the lower road.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I support that. And it's hard to do that when
you have so many outside voices that try to make
you feel a certain way. But The Wiz is such
an iconic film. The play is so essential to every
brown girl, and it's almost like we must be able
to watch this and see this to understand that we
belong in these spaces. Yes, and when you know you belong,
(27:50):
what does that feel like for you? For a Yeah,
tell me about that, Because you have it.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It's powerful. It's like, hey, I'm a hear and there's
nothing you can do about it. It's a powerful feeling.
But I didn't start to feel that power until later,
till I got older. You know, Like right now I'm
in the thalls of Hey, you know, I'm like and
(28:20):
I'm sixty six. So I'm like, hey, you know, but
it's powerful. It's powerful, and that's what I really want
black women to know, and black girls to know now
while they're young, that you are so powerful and you
where you're supposed to be. You belong there. Don't let
anybody tell you that you don't, because they're so quickly
want to tell us we don't belong, and we do.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
You don't leave with fear, you leave off. And it's
such a refreshing approach. And I'm and authentic because it's
not common when you talk about the Wiz. I have
to ask, because I'm sure most ask, especially in the film,
and you've mentioned the Jackson five. You dated the greatest
entertainer of all time. Arguably, Yes, he had an experience
(29:06):
that Once again, I mean you've had experiences that are
one of one. What was it like to know him
Michael Jackson?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
It was he was just a dude, you know, when
you when he was away from all of that, he
was just Michael, and he was loving, He was kind,
very determined. He knew what he wanted to do, and
we spent a lot of time together. But when it
(29:37):
started to shift and he went a different way. I
didn't want to go that way. I didn't want to
go that way. But it was magical. I could say
it was really because he was such a He was
really a genius and a very kind, kind human being.
I never heard Michael say anything bad about anyone, never
(30:01):
a crossword, never that term genius.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Can we focus on that for a moment because I agree,
and we don't get to see very many geniuses and
different disciplines. What or how do you describe him as
a genius? What did you see that made you feel
he was that.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The sensitivity and the rhythm, the energy that he was
on his rhythm was different from anybody else's. You know
what I'm saying. You know, I mean he was very
meticulous about everything with his writing, doing the wrisk. He
was so driven, but not driven in a way where,
(30:41):
oh I gotta do this, I got it, but it
was just very soft and peaceful, not to hurt anybody else,
but he just wanted to do what he did and
to be able to do that was just brilliant to me.
To watch him and to watch him at home and
to watch him write it was it was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And special because you can say you saw it not
many of us can say that. You then have went
on to have such a successful career, and when you
step into the light as your own, outside of Dorothy,
outside of everything else, you are now singing, and you
(31:21):
are having concerts and tours. How are you as an artist?
How do you want people to perceive you as an artist?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
A loving artist, artist that that understands, that stands up
for her people, love for people, and love everyone else,
but love for people, and and and and an artist
that's not afraid to be black.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
M So yes, let's talk about that. Because we are black.
This is what we do, and this is what we do.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
There are so many times when we get to a
level of success that we feel like we have to
compromise our blackness or quiet that side of us, that
side of us. When did you decide because you said
your mom was always an activist, so you had it
in you. When did you say, yeah, I can't quiet
that part because that's who I am.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
When I was in my thirties, because I realized that
you have to know when to go home from the party.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That means when you're at a party and things are
starting to get crazy, people are starting to do things
that you don't like and you don't understand you need
to leave. And a lot of artists don't realize that
they need to leave, and they also need to be disciplined.
I am so glad that I came from the theater
and I was around that motel energy and machine that
(32:50):
I knew what to do, how to do an interview,
how to say certain things, how to keep your life private.
That's all lost today. You know. I went on tour.
It was me and Luther Nick and Val Ashford and Simpson. Uh,
all of us was on the Buttfest. We never argued
about who got time and who didn't get time, who
(33:12):
went last and who didn't. It was a love best
I don't see that a lot today. So I try
to walk the walk and talk the talk. You know
a lot of people say, oh, you sound militant, and
you sound just because I love being black, just because
I came from my mother and I respect what she
(33:34):
gave birth to me and my father. No, you know,
it doesn't mean that you're racist or that's your prejudice,
because you love who you are.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We have been through a lot this country within the
last three years. Yes, in twenty twenty when the pandemic
hit and we were all at home and we were
forced as an entire world globally to watch the injustice
that happens to us as black folks. When we had
to sit and see what happened to George Floyd and
(34:04):
Breonna Taylor, and the list goes on, because but everyone
had to watch it, and there was this collective thought
of how can I help? And here we are fast
forward just you know, just two and a half years later,
and I feel like all of the work, all of
the lip service has been reversed. When you have this platform,
(34:28):
how do you address it? If at all?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, I address it. If you go to my page,
I address everything, like I'm going to Alabama and doing
a free concert August thirty. First. I don't condone violence,
but I was very happy that our people stepped up
and didn't allow them to beat that man to death.
We can no longer stand and videotape somebody being choked today,
(34:54):
somebody being beaten to death. We just gonna have to
take one for the team. There's no way, you know,
I couldn't have stood there and watched them kill George Floyd.
I couldn't have they probably would have shot me or
something or whatever. But I could not have stood there
and him begging and pleading for his mother, and nobody
tried to push those policemen off. You know what I'm saying,
(35:16):
We can no longer, We can't afford to do that
because we see that they will turn everything back.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
The humanity of it all. If you don't think we're human,
if you can't see our humanness, you can't treat us
as if we're humans.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
No, you can't, you cannot.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I know that those who watched, as we watched them testify,
have tremendous trauma and grief, and they feel so much
guilt and they wish, especially the black folks who watch,
wish they would have done something. So your sentiment isn't off.
I think that you're right in saying that you can't
watch another human being, especially not another black man, being
(35:54):
beat and do nothing about it.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
You know you can't.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Their sentiment read that you were going to Alabama to
give a free concert, and the concert is to say
what it is to say, it's just proud of you.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The concert is to say I'm proud of you, I
love you. Let's have peace, Let's spread love. Let's put
because that's what they did to me. That was love.
To help that man, you know, because they all jumped
on him. That was love. So just keep that up
to spread that. And we have to I think that
we do have to send a message that you were
(36:32):
just not going to tolerate you jumping on us and
killing us. We have to send a signal like he
threw up his head like that, just like here, we
we're all here. We're here all about us, right.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, And so that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's like I'm here, I'm here for you. I'm coming
there to be with you, and I'm going there and
I want to meet the people, I want to go
where it happen. I want to do all of that
because I am there. I'm I'm the kind of sister
that like, I'm down with you. We gone down, I'm
down with.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Do you think that you're one of a few that
are so bold about how proud you are to represent
the culture and unapologetic in your blackness? Or do yes?
You do? Why do you feel it?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I well, because I'm really I say what I want
to say and I and I really don't have any fear.
The only fear I only fear God. I don't fear
you know people, I know they are powerful people, but
I don't believe that there's anybody more powerful than God.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And I just feel like, when are we going to
stand up and say enough is enough? With human just
like you are? And I love people. I am not.
I'm pressed to this, but I'm not racist. Because racist
as you ate a person because of the color of
this skin. I'm prejudice against hate. I'm prejudiced against you
beating up on my brother, beating up on my sister,
(38:11):
killing my people. I'm prejudice against that. But I'm not racist.
It's not that I hate white people. I hate spect.
I love everybody. But I do not want you to
beat on us. I don't. I don't want that. I
don't want that. So I'm gonna stand with my own.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
What is the cost of speaking out?
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Boy? It hasn't cost me anything. I mean, I I
haven't lost anything, and I'm not cruel with it. I'm
not insensitive with it, but I do. I love being
block and I don't think there's nothing wrong with that.
I love being a black woman. I love everything about it.
(38:52):
Every other woman wants to be and have what we have.
I'll thick clips, I think behind, I'll think this. They
pay a lot of money to look like us. So
we must be doing something right.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And we should own it and we should and I
do yes, amen, amen, while we at church. So so
when I when I talk to you, and as you
say on your page, I agree. I I just wanted
to make it very clear. I will tell you there
(39:24):
is a generation that may not know how invaluable you are.
So I appreciate you for doing this, this interview and
being unapologetic. But there is a true sense of pride
and and and oneness that I find that we're losing
with certain generations. I don't know if it's because we
(39:47):
want money, or if we want to be popular, or
if we want to be influencers, but there is this
fear that is installed in us. And I don't know
where that comes from, because I I had it, you know,
when I was at ESPN, I say this often. I
knew I didn't have my voice. I couldn't find my
voice because I felt very afraid of what I might lose.
(40:08):
And when I said what's the cost, that's what I feel.
Everyone is worried about the cost yes, and it comes
to everybody differently. Everyone doesn't have to, in my opinion,
be so unapologetic and be free with their words. It's
just it's different for everyone. But is there a moment
or is or how did your mother raise you? Because
(40:29):
this is constitutional, it is in your spirit and you
have it. Was your mother always this way? Was your
father this way?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
My mother was always this way. My mother when we
would be in the car driving when I was older girl,
and if she saw policeman like harassing or talking to
a black person and they a couple of carts, she
would make my father stop and she would get out
of the car and say, what's going on here? Why
do you have them against the I remember that as
(40:58):
a little bir Why do you have them against the fence?
What's going on is? She wanted to know what, why,
and she would stay there until it was spending. We'd
stay there, I'd sit in the car, we'd stay there
until they kind of did what they were going to do,
and then they either let the person go or arrest them.
But my mother was very concerned about the people in
our neighborhood and it's it's in me and I just can't.
(41:21):
She made me proud to be who I am, to
be a little black girl going to school, singing in
the in the glee club. I was a brownie. I
sold uh uh chocolate chip cookies and stuff even though
I ate mine and my mother would have sence take
the money because I'm like, well, these cookies are good,
(41:42):
you know, but uh, that's the way she brought me
and I and I have really turned in to my mother.
I'm really all the things that the wisdom that she
gave me has helped me maintain and and and stayed
alive in this business, which is very hard to do.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
It's impossible to do because his business, as all business will,
it will eat you up and spit you out, and
you lose your identity and you forget your foundation. And
that's where all the problems begin. You reference your mother.
Your son wrote a book from my understanding about you.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Correct, Yes, he wrote a book about his adventures. It's
the call the Adventures of forad J and my son
functions at a very high level. He's an a student
and he's now finishing up his second book, which is
called The Red Virus. And he's just funny. He's really funny,
and I was so glad I was able to have
(42:37):
a baby, and my mom saw him and my dad
saw him because they just loved Barad when he came up.
But that is my soul. That is that is why
I still do everything. It's for him.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Does he does he reference or describe you as you
describe your mother. Do you see the similarities that he
can that he has that he has written down or documented.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
He has all kinds of names for me that he
calls me, but he loves He calls me snookums, and
he loves me. He kisses me every day and he
tells me what a great mom I am and everything.
So he yes, I get that saying he loves me.
There's no love like a child. Because I was just
(43:20):
talking about it with Karina. I call her my sister
because we're so close, and I was like, you know,
we will just do anything for our children. I would
walk through fire.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
From my child, absolutely, I just would. It's instinctive. You
can't help it.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah, It's like when you see a mama bear protecting
her cubs, like, yes, protecting her babies. Like He's just instinctive.
It's what we do. You can't.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
It's what we do and you can't help it. It's
what we do.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
We do every champion and carry champions. To be a champion,
a champion and carry champion and carry chat. Be a
champion and carry champion and carry chat Entertainment can make
it work. Kerry Champion, then carry champion is to be
a champion, a champion and Carri Chapi and the champion,
(44:10):
the Carri Sheppion and Carrity.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
You are going on tour and I think it was
a twenty fifth think you starting Detroit? Maybe am I accurate?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
And actually I'm in Harlem when the New York New
York wise up and then I go to Detroit. But
I've been on the road all these years. I've been
you know, working all this time.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, And and I don't know if there was a
joke I like I said. I just spoke with someone
who interviewed you. He said that you guys were kind
of you were joking about maybe thinking of bringing Babyface
on after the Anita Baker debacle. Was that he said?
Was that true? Were you bringing asking him to have
was he being funny? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
He told me to ask you about it. U, you know,
at our age with sixties. We're in our sixties. Whatever
we've been in this we shouldn't be fighting with each other.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I love I love Anita, and I love Babybase. But
I did say, well, babyface, you can come on the
road with me. Yeah, I did say it. I did.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
I love it because remember the love fest. We just
had a love fest. You had Asher and Simpson, remember said.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. I think we said Luther, Yeah, Luther and Gladys.
There was a lot of us on that show back
in the day. It was just a love fest. Stevie.
Wonder you know what.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
You were talking about. Legends. I can't even imagine what
that would look like today, you legendary. Legendary is what
you're telling me right now. Legendary.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yes, yes, we had a great time. Though.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
What was the Motown experience? Like you said to me
briefly that it taught you a lot of things in
terms of how to conduct yourself as as an artist.
With Motown and Motown produced, I mean had some of
the greatest of I mean literally how I was raised,
cleaning up the house, what I listened to. If there
was no Motown, I wouldn't be able to describe what
it feels like to sweep the carpet on a Saturday.
(46:11):
So I tell me about what that experience was like
to be in that, in that in that group of
people that were considered the best of the best, the
people who spoke to our hearts and our spirits as
a culture, and the world was in truly copying it.
The Beatles bit, the sound everybody's biting, the sound that
was already created that Moti.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yes, yes, we created everything. It was wonderful. Susanne Depez
used to take me to Vegas. I used to go
to Vegas with that because I loved Suzanne and I
wanted to be around her, so she would I would
be like following her all around and we would go
to the Dina Wash shows and the jack So she
knew I was madly in love with Michael and wanted
(46:53):
to be near him, so she made sure I was
close to the Jackson vibe. But they taught you how
to be boys. They taught you how to do an interview,
what to say, what not to say, And I'm so
glad I went through that. And then when I lived
in California, I took an etiquette class because I just
wanted to know. I'm very h like if I see
(47:15):
something on television I want or to make myself better,
I will try that. I will say, well maybe I
should try that or try this. So I'm I'm like that.
I shop all the time, and I and I saved you. Now,
shopping is my advice. Shopping, baby, that's same.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
SA save too much of I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
I didn't even know I happened one of this.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I didn't know I had it. Oh, yes, I can relate.
I'm curious. Are there any other projects that you want
to talk about before I jump? I want to make
sure that I hit everything and I didn't want to
take up too much of your time. You have been
more than generous, more than generals.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Thank you. I've enjoyed myself. Know I'm working on some
music stuff, but I can't talk about that now. But
uh no, just my shows that are coming up. I'm
coming back to uh uh n j pack in January,
but I'm booked until December. So I'm I'm working and
I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
And so we can check. We can go online and
see your dates and find you and and support you
in every way and maybe and maybe you never know, maybe,
baby Face might pop up. We don't know, we'll.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Maybe that would be a nice tour to do baby
face and I yes, you are are You are legendary
and you are gracious and those two things are a
beautiful combination and rare.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
And I thank you so much for just taking the
time to talk to me and being so pleasant. It's
refreshing because you never know what you're gonna get and
I was please, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
You're welcome, and thank you for wanting to I'm honored
that you wanted to talk to me, so thank you.
You'd be safe out here. I'm worried about don't worry
about what people say or what they say.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Amen. I received that you. You spoke to my heart today.
And a lot of Brown girls thank you very much.
We need, we need to see more of you, unapologetic
and proud to be who you are.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
We thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
So I just have to say wow, wow, wow, wow
wow wow. Not only did she say she dated Michael Jackson,
not only was she the very first Dorothy that was black.
Not only does she admire one Diana Rossall want to
hang out with her, she was a motown artist that
got to sit and go on tour with so many people,
the likes of like a Luther and Luther Vandross. She
(49:32):
hung out with Luther Vandross. May he rest in peace.
She talked about Stevie Wonder being on tour with her,
Gladys Knight, Astrad and Simpson. When I tell you, these
are legends. These are people who create the music that
you listen to today in some form or fashion. And she
talks about it so very casually. This girl from Brooklyn
who liked to walk home from school every day and
stop at the Jewish bakery and get a chocolate pastry.
(49:56):
This girl who went to her mom's shop, This little girl,
this little brown girl who went to her shopped to
get her hair done in two little platts. This little
girl at eleven years old, who went to the legendary
Apollo Theater and won six times in a row. And
she did not want to audition for the Whiz, but
she went with her mom because she thought auditioning was
too cold and cruel, but she did it anyway. She
(50:17):
is a legend, and as she sits in all her
glory at sixty six years old, she is still performing.
She seems extremely content and happy with her career. But
more importantly, she speaks up for the culture. She's given
a free concert for the folks of Montgomery, Alabama, because
she loved what those folks did. She said, she's not racist.
(50:40):
She might be prejudiced against hate, but she's not racist.
And she's saying, I'm supporting those who came to the
rescue of a black man who needed help because we
as a culture can no longer sit by and watch
and record while we're being attacked. All of that, all
of that, all of that I agree with. There was
nothing wrong with what she said and essence she's saying,
(51:05):
protect humanity, and essen she's saying, she's unapologetically black, all
the while being one of one, being the first in
so many ways, and I think that's special. I hope
you took some lessons away from this. Share this podcast
with friends, but more importantly, go check her out. She's
on tour. I am Stephaniemills dot com. That is the website,
(51:27):
I Am Stephaniemills dot com. Look for a location near you.
By the time this podcast pops out, you will be
able to see her. Perhaps if you are in Alabama,
or in New York or in Detroit, or many of
the places that she plans to perform at. Still has
a voice, still has something special to share with us,
and I'm so glad that she was able to do
it on this edition of Naked. I appreciate you guys
(51:49):
for listening. Thank you all for the support.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yes
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