Charlie Villanueva on his Fight with Ryan, Kobe's 81 and Jokic Greatness

Ryan talks with 11-year NBA vet Charlie Villanueva about the time they got into it during a game and both got ejected. Charlie talks about playing against a young LeBron James before he was a top prospect, defending Kobe during his 81-point game, and why Nikola Jokic is one of the best centers to ever do it. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
How's everybody doing. We want to welcome you into a
very very special episode of NBA Rookie Life with Ryan
hollins Man. And this is gonna be a fun when
I promise it is gonna be a fun one. Man,
I'm a static. This man right here is a straight baller.
He is a straight baller man, and I have been
watching him for a very long time. He was an
All Rookie first team in two thousand and six at

(00:26):
n C Double A champion, Yes I said, a n
C double champion. Put some respect on his name. A
second team All Big East, Big East Rookie Team McDonald's
All American and better. Yet, he was the seventh pick
in the two thousand and five draft. My dog, my man,
Mister Charlie, Charlie, Bill new Ever, what's going on, Charlie?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
What's happening to? Brother?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Thanks for having me man anytime? Brother, And I'm a
static man. Me and you we old now, we all hed.
We need a chance to come and break bread. And
the one thing about this show, I always feel like, man,
it's big for us to get back to that next generation.
You know. Unfortunately, I think we see things and we
can address it. That some of our young brothers are

(01:05):
not properly trained or they're learning the NBA life the
hard way. But there was once upon a time when
me and you were young knuckleheads. We just stilly stuff too.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
We can't we can't go into all this with I
was sitting down and talking about it, man, because we
got into it in the NBA and I say this,
I say this, Charlie, I want to hear your tape.
You know what's funny about it? Like it threw me off, bro,
because I definitely I felt like I played with an edge.
I do things, and like I had certain guys you know,

(01:37):
I maybe didn't like, didn't have anything with, but like
it was crazy. I felt like out of all people,
I was like, I don't even know Charlie liked that.
I was like, how did that happen?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Man? What's crazy is they had nothing to do with you.
It had to do all about my situation in Detroit.
You know my situation Detroit. I didn't like it at all.
It was some dark day for me. You just so
happened to be the guy that just hit you hit
me with an elbow at the wrong time, and after that,

(02:09):
I just so red you know what I mean, rowing
a screenshet and if Hollands, I don't know why to
get the arms up.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Wow, right to the face of each other.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Oh there it is. Yep. That's it right there, yep.
So the thing is, you hit me with an album
and I said something to you. I don't remember what
I said to you, and then your responds back. I
just wasn't feeling it all.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Right, both guys. He comes over to set the pic. Okay,
he throws the shoulder right into him. Oh, Charlie reaches
up first, he grabs her around the face.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
And then Ryan Hollins, Yes, got a pack of lips
there as he grabbed him, saying.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Bring it on. And then I was like, yo, I'm
I'm targeting you the whole time. Try to be smooth
with it. But I mean, obviously it wasn't smooth. And
then you know, we got into it whatever, you know,
hands got in each other's face, whatever, And then that

(03:13):
just so happened to like touch mine, I see, like
a little I had like a little scratch of my
face and I lost it. Bro I lost it cost
me a whole lot of money.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
So now the officials will sort it out to see
whether it's double technicals or something more severe.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Let's see how they sort it out.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
No punches were thrown, but the arms and hands got
up very quickly to the face.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
I'll tell you what. The Ryan Hollies didn't take anything
for anybody. And he's gonna play your physical and I mean,
if you want to play around and fool around.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
He's game. I was wild and I was tripping. I
don't know what the hell I was thinking. But that's
just to show you, like it had nothing to do
with you as a person, as a player. It's just
so happened.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You just caught me at the wrong time. Man, I
lost my I lost my cool for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, man, but love bro, And I felt like, you know,
like I said, like, you know, the NBA that we
played in, there was a lot of physicality. You know,
guys would get into it. And I think what these
young guys are having to realize too, Bro, you're a
real champion. I came in second. You know, we lost
in the NBA. Cha, We've never been used to losing.
And I knew it too, Charlie, Like it is tough,

(04:25):
but I was in Cleveland. We were grinding it was hard.
I'm sure y'all looked at our Calves team like we
gotta beat them to night and we were look we
were putting them palls on y'all that game. And I
was so mad too. I was having you know, I
ain't have a bunch, but in Cleveland, I have me
a game. I was Roland. I think I had fourteen
points nine boards going into the fourth. I'm like, shoot,

(04:48):
I'm gonna have me a cool little double double. And
I'm like, oh God, like that? Why now? Man?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
It's I'm telling you when you were losing and being
in and it was a toxic environment, you know, and
losing kind of brings that out of you a little bit,
you know what I mean. And I just I was
just wilding, Bro. I was wilder.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
I was wilding, and Charlie, you know, I take accountability
to I promise, Bro, and I know I got sharp elbows.
Were both skinny boys. So the skinny boy, you know
you got the sharp elbow. My elbows to Charce, I
felt like if I hit you, I felt like you
came and you popped me a few times, Bro, And
like you said, like I'm gonna get him back. I
promised the first elbow I caught you with. I didn't

(05:29):
even know because and you know, you know, we gotta
tell our story men. I was like, I don't even
remember hitting him, like you know, I just remember I'm
going in for rebounds and you tear yo. That was
that you come, bro? He tearing my back up, and
I'm like, what the heck is going on? You know?
And you know, I know, I know Stucky, I know
MAXI I know those guys. So they're like every I

(05:50):
know Sash. They're like, look, Charlie is one of the
best dudes on the planet. And they was like, how
you get into it, Charlie. I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
You know, it must have been that day.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
So I remember you're hitting me, I promised, but I
didn't even realize I hit you and I hit you
saying something. I'm like, I admit I spart.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I said you said some slick, some slick.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
I said, uh, I said, bro, you ain't bet like
this what I definitely. I was like, you're New Yorker, Bro.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I'm like, hey, yo, like this what you're doing?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Like all right? Like cool, like let's let me shake
it off. Like I said something real slick, bro. And
I remember we went back down court.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I knew the.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Play was coming up. Bro, so the Big the Big
y'all knew our played the Big the Bigs cross screen
for each other. And I'm saying in my head, I said, ho, damn,
I gotta I gotta go set a screen on this dude.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
And it was crazy the whole time. I'm plying, and
I'm like, y'all, gonnead him with a nice little like
gut shot, let him know I'm here. But it looked
like I was trying to go below the bell. That
wasn't my intentions at all. That wasn't my intentions at all.
But and then you know, we got into it and whatever.
And then you know, once I saw a little like
a little scratch, I was like, I lost it. And

(07:08):
what you might not know is, you know, I went
into the locker room the first time, and then I
try to go back to the locker room. I'm looking
for you, right, I was looking for you, but I
was hunting you down and.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Built on the way to.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
For a look in his eye.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
And then wow, that's just not a good sinker. No, yeah, bro,
I know like you had a look at your eyes Charlie,
I knew you saw a red Man.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, I saw rad Man. The thing is that
you might not know is that I went to the
locker room trying to wait for you the first time,
and then you know, security got my out of there,
and then I went back to the Detroit locker room
and I was like, Yo, I'm going to get this dude. Bro, Like,
I'm going after this dude. But I was so locked
in and determined, and then my opportunity that somebody opened,

(08:02):
like the locker room door. I was like, I'm out.
I bolted to you guys's locker room. But by that time,
they barricaded the locker room. So I'm trying to jump
over jump over that little barricade thing that they had there,
and they were trying to hold me back, and I
just remember Cops was like, Yo, we're gonna have to

(08:23):
tasee them securities.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
I want to kyo.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
So when I heard that in the midst, I'm like, oh,
hell no, I'm not getting taged, bro, I'm not getting tasted.
And I came into my senses real quick. So I'm
glad they said that because I came into my senses
real quick. But I was hated, bro, and they had
nothing to do with you again as a person, as
a player, It's just more of what I was going
through my situation.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
One of my outlets was you know, drinking. I wasn't
a big drinker going into the league, but and my
darkest days were in Detroit, you know where you know,
they bring me in to be one of the top
signees that's signed. They bring me in Ben Gordon and
and you know, off the rip, you know, things wasn't

(09:09):
going accordingly to what we thought it were. You know
the first year I played, you know, second and then
like I started seeing you no minutes started decreasing. And
I didn't know, mind you, I'm a young player, so
I didn't know how to release this energy, you know.
And and so and the way I was coping with

(09:30):
things was was with drinking. So and there's something that
I don't I don't mind saying it because it's my testimony,
is my stories, what I've been through. This is what
it is. I'm real, this is real life. Like I
had a drinking issue, you know, for a year, you know,
and because that was my outlet, trying to forget about,

(09:52):
you know, the environment that I was in and I'm
fortunately and blessed enough to have right people to kind
of give me back, right, But you know, it's tough
because you know, we're kids. You know, at the end
of the day, we become this star and now we
headed the family and we have all these responsibilities, we
have all these pressures on us. But at the end
of the day year, we still can't. We're still young

(10:14):
men that are still growing and still learning, and you know,
we make bad decisions. So that was one of the
bad decisions that I made. You know, obviously nobody knew
what I was going through during that time, but yeah, man,
I had a little drinking issue there, man for for
a little minute.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
There, Mannah, Man, I understand it because you know, like
your expectations are to be an all star, be the
next guy, be the next whatever it may be. And
when you're not that, you will be cut out of
a lineup you will play. And then the thing about
the NBA, we talked about it being a business, you
all of a sudden, don't play like I never got

(10:52):
a DMP. Are you playing fifteen minutes or they featuring
the next guy? They playing a young kid minutes that
you are getting, you know, but you go and you
have to have an outlet or your or your stressed
or you talk about ain't no pressure like family pressure. Dog,
I don't care nobody say you got stuff going on
at home? You know. So man, these young guys are
looking for outlets, and I just I hope that there's

(11:13):
somebody in the ear. I hope that's someone in here.
And like you said, Charlie, what you said is powerful, bro,
because somebody needs that. You know what I'm saying. Somebody
needs to hear that. And a lot of people don't
understand it. Oh he's stupid for doing this, Like bro,
he about the I don't care how many millions he got.
He's about to mentally go crazy. And those are outlets
that somebody that somebody's got. A lot of these guys
have and we're just seeing at a much greater level.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, man, especially too, like one thing that you know,
mental health, man, that's a real thing, man. And some
of these young players don't know how to respond to
certain things.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
That's why I give like a lot of like respect
to some of these guys. Man that they you don't
hear anything about them because they they always clean, They
like Lebron get a shadow. He's been one of those
dudes being clean slate. Yes, you know, throughout his whole career.
But yeah, man, that's real man. You know people going
through stuff. Man, that's real. That's real. I mean our situation.

(12:15):
I'm like, what the hell I was going through?

Speaker 1 (12:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's stressed. You know, stresses a real deal. You know,
stresses a real real thing. So yeah, man, and some
people just take it out in different different ways.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
It was a part of me that knew when we
got into it, he's mad about other stuff. I didn't
know what it was. But I said that wasn't about me.
That wasn't normal, you know what I'm saying, Like now
my ego is going you know, forget, forget Charlie, like
he gotta see me like what it is.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
But it's like I.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Felt it was something else going on. I'm like, this
dude is look dog, you looked at me.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
You had to look at your Charlie.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
You gotta look at your eyes. Bro. You got like
a it's like a like the eyes get big like
a death stairs.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh this man is possessed.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
But I knew it wasn't for me. I could feel
like he can't be that mad at me. Dog open
some trash talk, you know, So now I understand it, bro,
you know it's crazy. So we lock up. Everybody comes
in between, and our security guard grass me, Marv grass me,

(13:23):
and you're kind of talking. I'm chirping. I'm like, come on,
come on, like, come on, get over here. And I remember,
like you said, the moment you touch your dell and
then like you take off running and I'm like, all right,
he coming this way. But I'm like, like, Mara's an
older man. You know, Mar's probably sixty seven at this
I'm like, I'm not gonna be throwing mab around, but

(13:44):
I'm like I'm saying that my head. Also, what more
of me and you gonna be able to do at
this moment? Because there's so many people involved, our teammates today,
I'm like, there's nothing we can do. And I'm like
he's coming towards me and you take off and I'm like,
where's he going? You did the you know, the handwaves.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Come on.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm like, I'm like, Charlie, but I allmart fighting. If
we gotta do that, I don't know, I'm not gonna
make it there. But I'm also looking. I'm like, this
dude is really angry, and I'm like the way you moved,
I'm like, I'm like, I felt it too. Bro's like
I felt bad in the sense I was like, I
know they going through we do like I'm in Cleveland,

(14:23):
bro get Itchrick, Cleveland, Detroit at those times. This wasn't
we post Lebron you post you know, championship, Ben Wallace
all that, so like, this is not the sexiest of
times to be in the cold city. And I felt like, man, yeah,
I knew it was more going on, you know, Sessh
and those guys confirmed it. And I always have respect

(14:43):
for you, brother, you know, be on off the court,
whatever you had going on. I know the things you
do in the community for the children. I know the
things that you do. And also I'm a big advocate
with the kids, and I think even bigger than that. Afterwards,
like I said it, I was more embarrassed, like, man,
I'm gonna go work with these kids the off season
and They're gonna be like, well, Coach Hollins, what are
you doing? You know? Wen? You know, my son is

(15:06):
looking He's like, DN, what is that? And I'm like,
I'm not even like mad at this dude to be like, man,
forget him. I'm just like man, it's a part of sport,
you know. We played, so I definitely felt bad. I
wish I had cleared the air earlier with you. Man,
the man probably should have reached that earlier. It was
all love. I think we got to talk, you know,
got exchange numbers before that. But it's always been love, bro.

(15:27):
But I think a lot of young boys don't understand
or people don't understand the grind.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, with me, it was it was it was left there,
you know for sure. That's you know, we competitors at
the end of the day, and you know it was
a heated moment, you know, and you keep it moving.
But it's nothing personal with me. What was crazy talking
my embarrassing, like my mom was that was so you
gotta fight for them. So then I got to look

(15:55):
at moms like at the end of the game, like
she's just looking at my bad mom.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I think what we don't do is we don't talk
enough as a brotherhood. So I always had I felt
like you had some of the most game in the league, bro,
because I'm gonna I consider myself a defender I never
want to guard a guy like you. I was glad.
I think it was like JJ Hickson guarding you because
I'm like, he could shoot the three, he could post,
he could drive. If I can help off you, I'm
a natural helper, I'm good. I'm like, I don't want

(16:26):
to guard a guy who's gonna stretch me to the three.
So I'm like, and I'm looking at the Detroit situation,
I'm like, why they're not playing Charlie. I'm like, damn,
I'm like, cool, Like they're not playing him that much.
That makes so it's like, you know, I know you're frustrated.
We always have the highest expectations, so you know, I
even have respect for you from that standpoint of Yo,
my man is a dog. You know. If he gets off,

(16:47):
that's a different dimension. With they pick and roll, y'all
had stucky buying them getting downhill, you were spreading the floor.
I'm like, we walking through it in Scout team, like,
how we gonna guard if this dude is playing the
five and he popping their guards down here he playing
at four and I don't have a tag on the
week's side. So we definitely felt the frustration, bro, But
It's all love, bro. I know that now. Dang, I

(17:08):
don't even know.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Mom.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Tell moms. I apologize too. I apologize to she listens.
I was the part. I was a part of it,
but nothing but love. And I don't know if you notice.
I feel you are somewhere all the kids with alopecia, man,
you take the time to meet them and greet them
and show them. I'm like you, And I remember I
was watching you do that a couple of times and
I was like, Yo, this dude is dope, and I'm like,

(17:30):
I got to beat the knucklehead and got into it
with this guy.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
No, but the thing is with that with alopecia man. Obviously,
I was diagnosed with alopecia at the early age, when
I was ten years old. And for those that don't
know what alopecia is is a skin It's an autoimmune
disease that causes your hair to lose hair. There's different
type of variations of it. I have the worst case,
which is universe salace. We just complete body hair loss.

(17:57):
And I know how hard it is to deal with
that type of condition. It took me about six seven
years to finally accept it. But once I did you know.
I took it head on, and I took the responsibility
to kind of just spread the message and give other
people hope. You know, one of my biggest messages that
I've always say is make sure you have valipecia and

(18:18):
alopecia doesn't have you, because I know the stigma that
comes with it with dealing with that condition. So I
just try to give support as much as I can
to those that have this condition.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Is there a story about the moment where you realize
that this is bigger than me?

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, for sure. It was definitely. When I got into
the league my first year, I wanted to get involved
with helping kids that was dealing with valapecia, and I
remember I met a mother and a son that both
had it, which is very rod we see that. And
she took off her wig for the first time in
front of me and in public too, So that was

(19:00):
very powerful and I just saw her reaction and how
good it made me feel that. You know, with me,
I'm just like, you know, whatever, I accept it, But
for her it was something different because she's like, you know,
I'm over here playing in front of twenty thousands of people,
you know, fifteen sixty whatever, thousands of people and it's
not stopping him from doing what he loves to do.

(19:20):
So why should have stopped me from you know, doing
what I gotta do? So that was pretty powerful and man,
that was a touching moment for sure.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, and I share this, man. My mother in law
has alopecia. My sister in law has cancer, so she
goes in out of chemo doing that. So it hits
home man, home man. You know, for me, it's always
it's emotional. You want to help people, you want to give.
So I love what you're doing. Brother, the supporters there,

(19:50):
I understand this. You know for somebody who may be
hearing this or you know, hoping this, you know, we
hope to give you know, like with our from our
pain comes triumph and you end up being the seventh
pick in two thousand and five dogs. So you you
a lot of you don't understand us NBA players are.
Our triumph comes from our tragedy. Our pains drives us
to be great. You know, I grew up I was

(20:11):
a kid that was skinny. People would laughing from that
joking or that he week he is he that that
drove me, That drove me. You got two. You got
two lanes of going to either coward or you. You know,
you put your big boy pants on and you figure
it out and you grind. What was it like for
you being drafted? Man, when did you know you were on?
Was it always like, hey man, I'm gonna go do
this basketball thing? Was that your release? And just talk

(20:32):
to me about the draft process in general? For you, Man,
you're a big time you want. You won the championship,
you got out like at that time, college basketball was
still college basketball, So lay out the layer the lamb
for me are the things that you went through and
kind of some stories about a young Charlie at that time. Man,
you were one of those dudes.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
So having a lapizia definitely helped with me in my
basketball career because in between those lines, I felt normal.
Right in between those lives where I felt like I
was more, I was free to beat me. So people
once I was hoping, people were acknowledged that man, the

(21:11):
ball headed kick can play. I'm twelve, thirteen years old,
you know what I mean. So I was like, Yo,
boy headed kick got game, you know what I mean.
So I'm like cool. I used to feed off that energy,
so that kind of drove me, you know, throughout my
basketball career, but you know, being the seventh pick, man,
it was pretty dope, man, dope experience, you know, having success,

(21:33):
a lot of success in Yukon and then being drafted
number seven. Man, it was a dream come true. It
was you know, the hard work paid off.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Man.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
So it was a good feeling for sure. And it
was in New York too. It was in New York.
This city is in ok Okay, So the draft was
in New York. You know, I was invited to the
green room and just to have all your family there and.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Who was there with your specific.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I had my mom, my dad, had a mentor of
mind who kind of took me under the wings name
is Nate Blue. My both my brothers and my sister.
And I just remember because I worked out for Toronto.
I had a great workout with them, but I didn't
know where I was going. I knew I felt like
the draft started for me for like the fifth pick was.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
That this was this Sam Mitchell Toronto Toronto. Yeah, was
this Sam Mitchell? Were you out in the workout the
you know, Sam Mitchell trying to kill you in the workout?

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Dogs, This is Sam Mitchell, Yeah he did. I responded
with I was well prepared for the workouts, and I
just remember sitting in the green room and then my
agent was like, I think you up next. And then
you see like the camera dude coming over to the
table on my old man, this is crazy, and then
David Stern calling your name. Man, oh, that was a

(22:49):
good feeling.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
What happened after the draft? Man? You in New York?
You were in the city. How many people do you
have there? How many people you got waiting for you?
You fool around and go go seventh you know what
I'm saying. In the city. Dog, What did you do after? Man?
What what was the turn up? Like? Man, I want
to know that.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
So we gotta We end up getting a limo. It
was like who oh, my cousins and friends, it was
like thirty four. I was deep except for the deep
that was about forty deep. So we end up getting
something to eat, man, And then that was shit. Man,
you know, I'm not I haven't seen them. I haven't
seen one dollar. Yeah yeah, So now it's like, yo,

(23:25):
you gotta pay for forty dudes. Yeah, you know what
I'm saying. So we had a good time though, man,
we just on and got something to eat and just
celebrated and just hung out. And I remember the next
morning I had to go catch a flight, so I
was preparing myself for that to go to Toronto.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
What was it like when you first get to vetcamp? Man?
You you went to the NBA whereas a young player,
you ain't just going and get a bunch of minutes.
You had OG's on that team. What was it like?
And who are some of those guys that took you
under wing? What do you remember kind of from that?
I always say the first day of school, you know,
when she got there and you saw the veterans, because
as an NBA player, it is first day of school
US rookies.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, so I remember just you know, I'm I'm a
I'm a student of the game, so I know I've
watched a lot of basketball and I remember seeing and
this is the name. I don't know, Antonio Davis. I
don't know why, but Antonio Davis and Indiana was the
real deal, right, you know, the Davis brothers in Indiana

(24:23):
at that time, you know, was one of my favorite teams.
Reggie Miller is one of my favorite players. So I
remember seeing Antonio Davis and he was more to the
end of his career, but it was like, man, it's like, man,
I made it like I can't act like a fan,
you know what I mean, my teammate, you know what
I mean. I got to play cool and then you know,
Jaylen Rose kind of took me under the wing as well.

(24:46):
But Derek Martin, I will say, I don't know if
you remember Derek Warren, but dere he's at u c
l A, is a county boy. So that's my dude.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Man.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
He kind of like really took me under the wings,
show me ropes or it's teaching me like the business
side of things and how to conduct yourself this day.
And the third man, he's a real solid dude man.
So shout out to d Martin for show.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Stay tuned man, really cool story about Lebron James in
high school. Okay, coming up from Charlie B. Stay tuned,
and I promise that you're probably not gonna know this one,
so stay two fun stuff here from Charlie B. Let's

(25:32):
get to we like to have the NBA Film Rooms,
NBA Film Room. We need coach Charlie, we need some
locker room talk. We just we're gonna talk some hoop. Man,
And you had a game winner, okay, early in your career,
you had a game winning three. I want you knocked
this down. Let me know what was the set being run?
Was the play for you? Where were you supposed to
be big shot here in Detroit? Man? So walk me

(25:52):
through there, saying, you know, let me know what don't
we know about this this play as it went on? Man,
ain't too many people got game winners, Man, I don't
think I have. I had one. He was like, all back,
you know, on the floor, you know, but what was
going on here?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
So the play was for me to set a pick
because the way they were playing it, Uh you see
that there wasn't really showing. They were kind of down
in Jose.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
A high screen.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
Away.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
So I try to get a good screen on I
think that's Montellis. Try to get a good screen on him.
But it's like, let me pop to the three point line.
And I knew Will. Will said he's gonna get the ball.
He told me that. He's like, if I get the ball,
I'm gonna penetrate. I'm not gonna shoot get open for me, charge,
I'm gonna find.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
You gotta get back, gotta get a little at the ball.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
The play wasn't for me. The play is not for me.
It was more for jose The to use the screen
to kind of create and find the open man or whatever.
So he found Will, and I just remember Will saying, Yeah,
I'm gonna give you the ball, make the shot, and
and I saw how earth. I think that's earth sound eliotsoga, Yeah,
And he kind of close up to me pretty quickly,

(27:06):
so I knew I had to to give him a
little shot for to kind of get a ball of me.
And I knew he was gonna fly, but I knew
he was gonna bite on it. And you know the
rest is history.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Fuck downtown, Charlie fell on no way, but it's having himself.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
I'm back here for some night. You doing funny like
watching this man. We already know this, Charlie. I know
you get this all the time. You were made guys
like me, and you you even more so because your
skill set. You're made for today's NBA. Did you feel
like there was levels like, dang, I'm kind of going
against the grain. They normally want, you know, six eleven

(27:42):
seven foot or to go post up back to the bath.
You feel like you kind of had to go against
the grain in your time in the league or kind
of redefine a position. And are you're looking at today's
NBA like, damn, y'all walk threes?

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I could hiring that utah, Yeah for real? So yeah
I did. I felt like I've been going against the
grain for a minute, even in college. You know, in college,
I didn't shoot a lot of threes, but I shot
some and I was you know, I made them, but
you know, it was very rare. When you saw somebody
you know, six ten, sixt eleven out playing in the perimeter,

(28:12):
that was not a thing. So you know, the coaches
will always want to put you on the block and
stuff like that in that short corner. So I was always,
you know, battling against that. But you know, I was
able to still shoot my threes. You know, as soon
as I got to the league, I was able to
showcase that I could make it on a consistent basis.
And it was still rare, but I was still you know,

(28:34):
I was free to do me, you know what I'm saying.
So the coaches didn't stop me and say, hey, you
belong your box type of thing, you know, so they
were a little free to kind of let me do
my thing. But it was very rare to see. You know,
it was very few guys I can do stuff like that.
You know, you got your Dirk the Risky, you know
your Rob Sam Perkins with the lefty. You know you

(28:55):
got some some guys that are pretty tall. I can
shoot some threes.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah. With the one thing they also say to Charlie
is you know when you play well, all all other
you know, twenty nine other teams are watching, and you
happen to go off against the Bucks. Now later on
you you end up playing for him? Or walk me
through this game. Man, you dropped a forty forty eight
piece doll's different. I think I think I scored twenty
one time, maybe nineteen twenty one, you dropped forty eight

(29:21):
as a young bull dog, Talk to me, what you
have weedies in the morning? Dog talk talk me through
this one, because they there's not too many cats in
the league who've done this period.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, So what's crazy is that this game, I think
Chris Bosh ends up getting hurt. Ooh and he was
our scoring leader, so we need a scoring obviously. So
I just took upon of myself to kind of go
out there and just just hoop freely. I was just
hooping freely, like all right, yeah, yeah, yeah, Let's.

Speaker 5 (29:51):
See what Marty does this time, giving it up, feeling
it a way up, and Charlie me with nineteen first
half points.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
You can rig it up. Gotta love Charlie b I
know Chris, you know he's now I got more time
to sean, you know what I'm saying. Because Chris is
Chris Bose, a tremendous player. Yes, and sometimes I was
playing alongside him, and sometimes I will back him up.
So once he got hurt, you know, we need a
scoring and I just went off man Foe Tooks on

(30:20):
the Flying Ship Store Paul.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Charlie Bell was all over Villava.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Nobody could could touch me.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Man.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
To be honest, the basket seemed bigger than what it
really was. I was cooking. I was cooking. Charlie do
it a.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Wave up truck shot for me. I would get the fact.
And Charlie b with forty eight, and.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I'm more mad at you know, I didn't score fifty's
that's what fifty fifty sounds better than forty eight, you
know what I mean. Yeah, scored fifty. It the wave
up for three.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Eight off the mark.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
They tried to give him the rock for fifty, and
this fall game is over. Win twenty five wins sixteen
box but f it the Wave up coming the Sat
Speeder to the Troney Doll for the teammates at Michigan State.
But Charlie fling away up unbelievable, incredible, spectacular bulgin.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
But man, I I just missed it by a bucket.
I'm all mad at that more than anything. But this game, man,
it was just one of those games where I was just,
you know, everything seemed that it was going right, and
I showcase, you know, my little inside and outside game
very well this game as well.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Let me ask you, did Sam start running the sets
for Chris Bosh for you or was everything kind of
free flown? He's like, yeah, did we run it you
you Bosh right now?

Speaker 5 (31:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
So once I started cooking, once I made a couple
of shots in the row, now I became christ Boss.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Now everything was going through me. And you know, I'm
a young pup. I'm twenty twenty one years old at
this time, so I'm I'm taking advantage of this moment
and the way Milwaukee was playing, I'm like, oh, Milwaukee,
you know I can shoot. It wasn't really like respecting
my job, so you know, I had to hit him

(32:03):
over the head with a few threes. So but and
then my teammates they did a good job, Mike James
and Mo Pete. They did a good job of finding me.
So I took advantage of that for sure.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
You know, obviously we had like Twitter era, we had IG,
but it wasn't really like that. I don't even know
if Twitter was quite what it was or even maybe
just what was it like after the game? Did your
life change after you dropped this? Like was it a
million text? And folks like I hate son? You was
like whoa? What was it like? Man? And was there
somebody that hit you up that you know kind of

(32:33):
wasn't likely like wow, like dang okay.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Nah that my phone definitely was blowing up. But you know,
with me, like I was just you know, it was
a one game. It wasn't and we ended up losing
the game too at that, so it wasn't you know,
something for me to brag about, you know what I mean,
we still lost the game, but it was a good moment.
For me personally, you know, just being a young rookie
at the time, that was a tough move right there.

(33:00):
You're on your back. Yeah, yeah, that's tough.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Like that You're going through workout moves, like at some
point you feel like, I've worked on all these moves
in the summer. We don't get to do summertime moves
in the game. But you get loose right now.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
And one of the things that I always struggled with
is when, you know, the bigger guys I was cool
with because I knew I'm faster than them, I know,
is when they put like a little like strong dude
on me. I hate that, like because I'm not like
the little dudes, be strong, get lower to the ground.
So uh they put I think who was I believe
that was little Charlie Bell. You know, Charlie Bell was

(33:32):
known as a defender at the so and then I
was cooking him. I was like, oh, okay, they try
to put you know, Cuck Coach on me. You know,
Kuck Coach was on his last Leguck, come gett some
of these buckets real quick. Bobby Simmons, who I love
my man to this day. Bobby Simmons getting cooked. Michael
Ran was getting it, you know, everybody was getting it

(33:53):
on the walk. And then so happened. Next year, I'm
on the team, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Now, when they made that phone call, were you surprised
at all? You're like, hey, y'all already know what it is.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, first of all, I was sick to my stomach
when I got traded. I'm gonna be real really because
of how it happened. I remember, I'm twenty one year
I'm twenty one years old at the time, and I
had an appearance Draft day. Matter of fact, ironically, on
draft Day in Toronto, it was me and Chris Bosh

(34:23):
I think, like Joey Grahmm and somebody else, Camember, Jose Jose.
We had an appearance out there. And this is the
year that they draft on draft Bargnani, Yes, and they
had the number one pick.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
This was my draft.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
This is my draft? Actually, yes, okay, yes, listen what
two thousand and six and seven two.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
My draft?

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Yep, souh. They draft Bargnani and I'm like, oh, like, okay,
all right now I play the four and you know
sometime they put me on the five. You know, Chris
bog four to five. Now we're getting another dude that
kind of does the same thing. That's weird, but at

(35:02):
the time, you know, rest in peace to Rap Babcock.
He's the one that drafted me, but he ended up
getting fired midway through the year because he was having
a terrible year. And Brian Colangelo came on board. So
and I remember being there when they drafted right now
and there was cool. All right, I'm starting to see
that was like a red flag, like the red flag

(35:24):
of Mooji came up in my head before the red
flag and Moji it's supposed to be I'm like, okay.
So and then I had a conversation with both Brian
and Sam Mitchell, and I, you know, I tell the
story often. It's like I got introduced to the business
side of things pretty early. So sam Mitchell told me,

(35:45):
the only way we're trading you is if Michael Jordan
comes out of retirement. So you tell a twenty one
year old kid that that's like, I bet I'm good
like Michael trying to come out of retirement and he
hadn't come into to Toronto, so I'm good. And Brian Colangelo,
you know, kind of echoed the same thing that that

(36:05):
Sam was saying. He was like, you know, there's a
lot of teams calling for you, but that's a good sign,
but we're not going to trade you back. I said, cool.
So the next day I go back back home to
New York and within twenty four hours and I was traded.
And I found out through my brother. My brother found
out through somebody else, and it was just crazy, like

(36:27):
my agent didn't tell me, nobody gave me the call.
I find out, you know, by some randoms that I
got traded to Milwaukee, and I was sick. I was like,
no way. And then I called my agent and he
was like, nah, I ain't here anything. And then he
called me an hour later and boom gone, just like that.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
It's like, wow, did you cry When I first got
to trade?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I cried, I'm gonna keep it a hundre and I
keep it behind in my eyes, got a little teary.
And then I was hot. Yeah, I was hot. I
took I took that personal because I loved the city
so much and I love the people, and how I
felt like betrayed, Like, yo, you tell a twenty twenty
one year old kid, Yo, we're not gonna do something
look at me dead in the eye telling me not
gonna do I expect that. But nah, it wasn't that so.

(37:14):
And I just remember anything that I had that Toronto
like I threw it away like yo, like I was
show man to the point where I took like I
held that one for a minute. So when I became
a free agent in two thousand and nine, the first
team too call was Toronto. They wanted me back. Yeah,
I wouldn't even take their call. I was like, nah,

(37:34):
I'm good, Like, don't call me. And anytime I played Toronto,
I'm like, yo, I'm going after your net like I'm
I'm going after you, bro. I was. I was hurt, man,
I was hurt. But and then you know, over time,
its like you know, I understand there's a business. It
is what it is. But man, don't tell a twenty
one year old kid. You know, you can do it
one thing and then then you do the other facts.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Fact, all right, well in better news, man, you you
dunked on one of the goats. Man, I'm gonna just
say one of the goats for arguments sake. Man, lets
let's pull this up.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Man, who you got he go?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Who you talking about? You dun't don't want of the
goats wrought me through this one, man, I know you.
I think it's one of the ones where you ain't
realized until after what happened. Man, But he ain't catch
you off me through this one.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
Man.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
You know it's funny. I just remember, you know, just
taking off, and then I didn't know. I just see
a white jersey, Like I can feel that there's a
white jersey presence right next to you. But I don't
know who it is, but I can feel it. I
feel it. So I was like, man, I got done
this thing quick. So it just so happened to be Lebron.

(38:40):
But I didn't know that after, you know, people like, oh,
you dunked the lebron. I'm like I did, Oh yeah,
I did. You ain't hold that lebron? Hold that?

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Would you done some trash talking that you knew what
he did? Afterwards? It wasn't so quick. Man.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Look at the score, man, you see the score forty
four sixty four. Got to be quiet. I can't be talking, man, No,
I can't say nothing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
If people don't realize this white hot lebron bruh, he
was he won't just the b he was like the
fastest in the league. Bro, Like you fast, you take off.
If you watch he catches you and try to time
it up.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Try to time it up. He tried to time it up. Yeah,
that Miami Lebron was different.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Man.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I mean, it's just funny to see Lebron at different
stages of his career. It just seems like he keeps
getting better, right, yes, but just it's mesmerizing, man, to
see the longevity. Man, to see, man, this dude is
still he's my age, in the same age, and I'm like,
I can't even get on the court right now without
my back and knees hurting, bro. And just to see

(39:50):
him doing that at a high level. Man, it's still
putting up big numbers twenty plus and seven and seven
and man getting trip or double hitting. Man, it's it's
pretty dope to witness. Man.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Well, let's take a look at some young Lebron. Man.
You you got to sit young Lebron and let's pull
up this this game here. Man. You you were here,
you witnessed it. He was the youngest player over fifty.
You were there and think he dropped fifty six against
you guys. And the reason I want to do. This
is because you saw this and we talking about og Lebron,
like me and you were sitting here doing podcast dog

(40:22):
like we like like he's still hooping in the NBA
well thinking about Victor winbin Yama. But I want people
to remember, like young Lebron, like what was he Like, Charlie,
what do you remember about this game? What did you
see from him? What was the scout and report? And
like what made this guy special? You know? Did you
did he surprise you with this? I know certain players

(40:43):
you think you know them and then you have a
different level of respect that that they get busy against.
Here you see something? What was going on here in
this game? Man?

Speaker 5 (40:51):
Who is Lebron nano against man reverse?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
In the software I've played with Lebron, you know, we're
playing the Sam McDonald's on American team back in and
whatever it was two thousand and three, I believe. But
he's been answered, He's answered all the pressures, he answered
all the critics. He's just one of those dudes. Man,
He's special man, one of those generational players.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Man.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
And you know I'm known Lebron. We don't play aau
circuit across each other's path. You know, fifteen, sixteen years old,
so you know this. None of this surprises me. Man,
It's it's Lebron man. I mean, he's he was that dude.
He is that dude.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
What was Lebron Scott report for this game? How were
you guys trying to play him? You know what did
you kind of what was the mindset from you seeing
against him and playing him?

Speaker 2 (41:36):
The most you can do is try to contain him.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Man, James, and he lifts.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
You know, you try to contain Lebron as much as possible. Man,
But he's special man. You know, he's strong, he's fast,
you know, and he's athletic. He got bounced, you know
what I mean, So there's nothing he couldn't do.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Second against Bill Peterson, this is the match they went
Lebron James with LEBRONA and the D three.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
So it was more just trying to contain them and
don't let the other guys beat you. But yeah, man,
he's he's a tremendous player.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Man, talk to me about aau you mentioned you you
played against him. Tell me the story about the first
time you met him or the first time you was like, hey,
this dude is a little different. You know because every
time people don't know when you play, you going to gym,
you size and everybody up. You're trying to be done
the big dog in the gym. Tell me about the
first the story or the first time you played against
them or kind of saw like all right, who is

(42:32):
this dude? Like yo, godlye.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, it's crazy because I remember being about fifty sixteen
years old and I was one of the top five
players in the country at that time, and everybody was like, Yo,
you gotta watch this Lebron kid. I'm like, yo, this
Lebron kid from Cleveland like that could like Hio, no way,
but Lebrono. He was already like built different, the way

(42:56):
he ran, jumped, Like Yo, this dude is a grown man. Yeah,
just fifteen sixty years old. But I remember seeing them.
There was a tournament in North Carolina called Bob Gibbons, Yes,
and I don't know if you remember that or not,
but there was also ABCD camp that was to me,
that's where I felt like Lebron took his name to

(43:20):
a whole nother world because that's what he showed out.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Who were some of the guys there along with you?

Speaker 2 (43:26):
I remember if you remember her name called Lenny Cook. Yes,
I don't know that that was the name. Yes, so
he at that time, you know, Lenny was like a senior.
Lebron was a sophomore, and Lenny was like, you know,
one of the top three players in the country at
the time. You know, you had Kwame Brown, you had Carmelo,
you had you had some big time names there and

(43:47):
Lenny Cook was one of those guys everybody was talking about.
And man, when Lebron, you know, fifteen, sixteen year old
Lebron put in work and held his own against him
and won the game. The buzzer beat it. I remember that.
The whole gem was just watching this one game to see,
you know, the top three senior at the time playing

(44:10):
against the number one sophomore and the sophomore came out
winning at the end. It's crazy. It was crazy. That's
when Lebron I you got it from you got you
got it. That's tough, all right.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Maybe you didn't notice, but Charlie was a part of history.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
Man.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
He got to see live in action.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
He was hooping. Man.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
But there was a guy, Jellybean, right that had eighty
one points against the Toronto Raptors. We're gonna hit the
story coming up next here on NBA Ricky Life. Stay tuned,
all right, Charlie, you probably gonna be telling this story

(44:51):
to the day you died, man, but we keep hearing
about it. You were part of You got to see
something fun. You was on the other side, and I've
seen I've had some of these moments. You got the
that Kobe eighty one game, dog, we got I need
the I need the I need to Charlie, Charlie, hold on,
let me put my chi.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Don't bring that up. I we got it. That's what happened.
We got to.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
The late great Bean. Yeah, report I need At some point,
are y'all saying triple team him, double team or were
y'all like he not gonna beat us with eighty one,
like he gonna run out of gas. Talk to me,
I need to know from the from the first quarter
to the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Talked me through this one. Vam so with Kobe. You know,
this is when he was like I think he gave
like sixty to Dallas just playing three quarters, like a
couple of weeks ago or so. He was like on
a tear. This is when like Kobe was like angry
and like anna, yeah, yeah, tremendous tear. They weren't that

(45:53):
good as a team, but he was obviously you know
it's Kobe Bryant. But I remember the Scouning report. Let
Kobe get his. Don't let the other guys go off. Yeah,
Lamar go off. Don't let Brian Cook or a smug Parker.

(46:15):
Don't let these dudes go off. He's like, all right, cool,
because Kobe's gonna get his. So comes first half, he
has like thirty mind you, we are winning the game,
still working, so it's working. So it's working. So it's like,
I bet Kobe has like thirty something like the half whatever,

(46:37):
Like alright, Like it's cool he got thirty something.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Who would have guys got him? I know, I know
Jalen got a piece of it. Mop who else?

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Oh, Jylen Rose got a piece of it, Mo p
got most of it. Joey Graham. I would say, I
didn't get one buck I watched his game so many times.
I don't think he's going one bucket on me. They
should I should have been putting. I should have been
put on him. I would have got my Cook. But man,

(47:04):
Kobe had those those he had that eye he had
that look, man, and this is when I'm like, yo,
this is like Kobe, like Kobe is like not saying
the word locked in. At some point, like it started
because it almost became laughing. Look at this called fifty
eight forty seven, like we're working. It's working, yes, yes,
and then look sixty to forty seven were cooking. Yeah,

(47:26):
and I had a good game too as well, but
obviously Kobe at showing me. But so it's it's working,
so you know, he's still doing this thing. And then
it became laughable because at one point they just kept
It's like a video game, they just kept feeding them.
He was just you know, putting out. He probably shot
like forty fifty shots. But man, it was working. He

(47:49):
was cooking. So now it became now I'm just now
I'm watching like a fan. I'm on the corner, but
I'm like we double TV and we sat together. He
is not the ball at all, he said, two people
out here is not passing. Bro, Hey, when did you
realize he wasn't passing? Your fourth quarter came he was

(48:09):
like all bro, like yo, this is crazy. Like I
and I remember, man, and I'm kind of mad at
myself because actually kept the stat sheet, but when we
look at the stadd, Yo, this dude had eighty one
eighty one, Like this is crazy, but man, he was
in the zone. He was on the zone and they

(48:30):
ended up winning the game, which is crazy. And they
just backfired because there was nothing you could do. You know,
once you said two dudes, three dudes, that's it, Like
he's still shooting and he's making it game over.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
What was the conversation when it finally switched in a huddle,
like ah, now let's double team them. Let's get the
ball out of his hands, like or like hey, like
he's still not passing, like like, how did those conversations go? Man?

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Midway through the game, we were like, yo, let's get
the ball out of his hand. Let the other guys
beat you. Yeah, and then but it's too late because
there's other guys. All they were doing was finding them.
What's finding them? What's finding them? The wall and it
just became almost laughable, like, Yo, this dude is shooting
every time now, like there's nothing you can do. We
said two guys like we did right there, and he

(49:14):
was cooking. That's it, man, Like one thing with NBA
player this goes with anybody. You know, I've been in that.
I'm sure you've been. Anybody is experiences. You know, once
you start going like you, it's hard to stop you bro. Yes,
and Kobe was one. I mean he's already a tremendous
you know, athlete player, one of the greats to ever
play the game. But when he gets in the zone,

(49:35):
i mean, look, third quarter, now we lose him by two.
So that's it. It's over, like it's there's no coming
back from that.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Was there a moment where oh, he's going, he's going,
but the crowd realized what was going on? Like when
did that happen? Because I played against them later and
he starts kind of like, oh he cool, he just
hooping and then he's filling it with the crowd. Was
that third quarter or fourth quarter? When did you kind of.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Have Yeah, that was third quarter. Yeah, but it picked
up more in the fourth quarter. And you know, you
ain't that lege. You got all the selabs courtside, and
now this dude is performing. He's in Hollywood. Now he's
put putting on the show, and you know he fed
off the energy. You know, the crowd the environment was
was was crazy and super loud, and you can see,

(50:22):
like you can see all his teammates like, all right, bro,
you're gonna take us home. And he just straight video
game and you know, he did his thing eighty one. Man.
So I'm part of history, but on the wrong side
of it, but at least a part of history.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Man. Blessed. Blessed to being in his family. Man, that
was cool to see. I remember in his farewell tour,
he came out and we were I was in Washington,
and he was he wasn't feeling it. He was stiff.
I think the farewell tour was like just announced and
everybody showed up to the game, and I remember the
Washington fans, the Kobe fans came and all of a

(51:00):
sudden they start cheering him on. He starts feeling it,
crowd gets into it, they cheering for him, and then
all of a sudden, the game is live. He ends
up dropping the forty ball. We lose, and it was like, man,
this is this is absolutely nuts. But I definitely know
what you're talking about. Like he starts performing for the crowd,
like he gets into it and he's going in those situations.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Man, man a forty damn Thank god, he was a
forty ball. What she would have gave us a forty ball?

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he times out by too. Yeah he
was about forty.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Yeah. But he feeds off the crowd, man, He feeds
off the crowd. Man. He's a tremendous player. And I think, yeah,
he might have got an MVP that that year two
or something like that, because it was there was years
where Kobe was just on the tail man. Yeah. And man,
it's just crazy, man. And man, I'm a young pop,
young young fresh into the league.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Are you thinking this is normal? Are you sitting there
like what the heck is going on?

Speaker 2 (51:57):
You said your rookie. Nah, definitely not normal because I
ain't never I can never see y'all know somebody gave
me an eighty ball or seventy ball, you know what
I mean. I've never seen that in my life, you
know what I mean. So you know, you know, if
somebody gives you the seventy bro, we fighting. It ain't
nobody giving me no seventy bow, bro. But you know,

(52:17):
obviously can't do that here in the league. But man,
he was he was on one, bro, he was one.
Did you when did you realize, like, yo, this is history.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Did you you said you did you feel like you
knew off top, like we were just a part of
something different that wasn't supposed to happen.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah. Well, after the game, you look at the statue
like eighty one, You're like, damn the students just I mean,
it's the second highest scoring game ever. You know, you
look at Chamberlain, Joe was like a one hundred, Like, damn, Bro,
this was called eighty one eighty one. That's like a
final score game. Bro.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
That's not like, Yes, were y'all more fans afterwards or
we y'all pissed like dang bro like or was it
just respect? Like ain't nothing we could do?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Bro? During you know, I would say through the last quarter,
I think we was all becoming like fans on watching
just him perform and do greatness. And then after the
game it was no like it was more like wow,
like what this dude did is amazing. It was more
like respect, bro, Like that was crazy. Yes, that was

(53:22):
wild man, what he did.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
All Right, before I get you out of here, I
gotta get your take. Man. Listen, you're a lot closer
to winby than I'll ever be as a big man
who could kind of do it all. Yeah, a lot
taller than us, probably quicker. Like we talked about, next up,
I want you to break down Winby's game. Man. I
want to know what you see from him. And like
I said, Charlie, you were in a situation where you

(53:45):
are a young guy in the league. Obviously the league
has changed as far as development. But I want to
know kind of when you see Wimby, what do you
see from him offensively? Skill wise? What can you compare
him to? But as a guy you are stretched four,
stretch five, whatever it may be in the league, what
do you see from him? Is this is this normal
for those who don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
No, this is not normal. This is you know, that
generational player that I was talking about, the Lebron's, you know,
the Kobe's, uh, the guys that you rarely see. And
he's one of those guys where you're not gonna see.
You know, he's seven two seven three whatever higher tall
he is, and he plays like a guard that's like

(54:26):
unheard of. He's extremely talented. There's nothing he can't do offensively.
Obviously people are going to talk about, you know, his
gotta get he gotta get a little bit more stronger,
and this that and the third. But tell that to
Kevin Durant, you know what I mean. So, and you
see what type of player KD is. So this dude

(54:48):
is a mixture of like k D, Dirk, Rudy Gobert,
He's a mix of everyone. Man, because this he got handles.
You know, there's nothing he can't do. You know, this
dude's doing fadal ways. His dude is being back on
his shot. How are you gonna do with that? You

(55:10):
do with that? And that's what they're made a living off,
you know, being so tall and being able to fade.
But this dude is even taller and longer, you know,
and she's crazy.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Man. Last question before we get out of here. You're
you're the general manager per se and san Antonio or
you're consulting whatever it may be. Where would you put
him early in his career so that he could have
the most success possible. You know in the NBA, everybody
switches screens. You know, they'll go small. See if he
could post up. You know, they may go big, beat

(55:42):
him up. You know what I'm saying. Where would you
put him and play him right now early with seeing
his skill set to kind of get the most out
of him or success or like kind of like you
know what I feel like, you give him a little
bit of sugar, let him do his crossover stuff, but
he need to get to some bread and butter to
keep his confidence.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
You know, he'll be he'll be my center. Think about it.
Think about who's gonna be guarding. Right the game has
changed a little bit, uh where now? You know, like
Golden State will put Draymond at the five. You know
that that that's a different case. But I got let's
let's take Draymond for instance, Draymond six four six five
if that yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Sure you can't

(56:21):
do nothing with a seven two dude, seven three dude.
So I would definitely put him at the five position
where he could expose the other centers, the other bigs.
Even though the game has changed and most of these
centers now can a little bit more agile and they
shoot threes now. But if you think about it, like
you put them in the center position, I mean it's tough,

(56:45):
you know, I mean this is the only certain I
mean it's tough. It's super tough, man. So I think
that's what he will excel at the most, is at
that position. Because you're not you don't have other centers
I can guard him. I don't see that happening. And
even like a joker, I take a joker for him.

(57:05):
I mean jokes a lot stronger. I mean he's a
different animal.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
What you think about joker, yo, I don't feel like
we've seen anything like that. I didn't see it coming
like that. Dog.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I have this debate with my boys all the time,
and I'm like, and I'm like, matter of fact, I
might ask you the question you asking all the questions.
Let me ask you a question. Do you think Jokic
is a top ten center of all time? Now?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, he's definitely top ten. I don't put him in
that top five because we talk about multiple championships in
which he doesn't have. And I think you have to
show me who you are when the league adapts to you.
The reason I say this is because his offense is
so good. You can't beat him up with another center
because he's gonna have fifty and your other center's not

(57:49):
gonna have whatever. And I feel like there's a level
where I'm a little in between. Because he gave Rudy
a fifty ball. He be tearing Rudy up, but Rudy's,
you know, one of a better post to finished that
we've seen. And then on the other end, I go
in the playoffs, they were switching and he's posting up
over guards because he could you know, he could score.
You know, he's going over Bam out of Bayo. Bama

(58:11):
is not a big boy, you know. I'm like, you know,
teams are gonna have to go in at least keep
one or two guys who can guard him, who's formidable
enough to compete against them on the other side. So
I'm a little in between where I've seen him get
busy against the league's best post defenders. But I'm also
saying I don't think the teams winning equipped. I think
teams equipped to guard the kds, the Lebrons and the cowha's,

(58:34):
but now they're gonna have to figure out how to
guard the embiads and the jokers because he didn't win
the championship. So I'm still like, show me a little more.
But I think I put him in that in that
number five range from his skill set, the MVP's and
then championship. Like Dirt, you played with Dirt, we both
played dirt. Dirt got certified there were no questions once
he got his chip right.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I will agree with
you that I had it more like a number six
because I had you know, you got the Bill Russell Chamberlain,
Kareem Kareem.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
For sure, I can see six and that's it.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
But other than that, I'm like, dude, this dude is
doing something special here for sure for sure. And you know,
winning back to back MVPs. He should have won it
three times in the row. Let's be really. Yeah, but
he's doing some amazing things. And what's crazy is he's
still writing his story.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Yeah, you know what messed me up to bro. We
live our whole lives and eat, sleep and breed basketball,
and he like, let me get to my horse racing,
let me go. I mean, maybe we still have took
a page out of his But hey, Charlie, man, you
over there fighting and living life. You got it?

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Basketball secondary to man. Yeah, it's crazy how like andant
he is, man, But I mean it's just I mean
that's his personality too. Man, he's a tremendous player. Man,
this person as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
No man, fun stuff, Charlie, Well, I love you, brother,
I'm static for you, happy for you to be on here.
And I told you before, I've been watching you for
a long time from Afar, even even after we had
our deal, And I love what you do in the community.
I think there's so much bigger about it. Like we
just play basketball so we can give to our family
and have cool stories. But like it was never about us,
you know what I'm saying. It was never about us.

(01:00:22):
So I'm a static for you, Bro. Thank you, Thank
you for coming on here and blessing me. Like I said,
we should have done this a long time ago. Moms,
if you're listening, I apologize, but a fool during that game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Man, Thanks for having me, Man.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Even bigger man, you blessed us. Where can we support you?
Where can those listening come and rock with you? Support
you causes that you're behind. We talked about some of
the stuff you're doing with the alopecia of the kids before,
But where can we support you, bro? Because you're doing
major things. Dog, Where can we help? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, So I created this platform it's called Alopecia Dock
Community Platform, where it's a hub where anybody that's dealing
with alopecia or just dealing with anything in general. Could
come and join. It's just like a support group, man.
I think support is something that's very important, especially when
you're dealing with something and you know it's I've launched

(01:01:18):
it about a couple of months ago, about three months ago,
and it's going well thus far. So it's alopecia doc community,
So check it out whenever you have a chance.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Where can we follow you for those updates for those
who may want to see something and tapping.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
With you, you go also follow me at CV believe
throughout all social platforms Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, that's CV and
then believe.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Good stuff. Brother, Appreciate you man. Anything you need for
me you already know. Shoot me a tech holler, we
get down whatever. Maybe you come through the age down
we got to go, grab about to eat or whatever.
But fun stuff, Bro, Appreciate you coming. Buy dog Ahi Brother,