April 26, 2023 • 50 mins
Ryan Hollins talks with NBA legend, Vernon "Mad Max" Maxwell about the lessons he learned from his mistakes at Florida, his matchups against Michael Jordan, hitting the game icing shot in Game 7 of the 1994 NBA Finals and what he thinks about future Rockets super-star Jalen Green.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
How's everybody doing. I want to welcome you into a
very very special episode of NBA Rookie Life with Ryan
hollins Man. Listen, man, listen. This guest that we have
today is special to me and I'm gonna laborate on
it because he was big in my career and I
don't even think he knows how big he was in
my career. He was the forty seventh pick in the
(00:25):
nineteen eighty eight draft. World Champion. Listen. A man of
the people, none other than verning mad Max Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Appreciate your time, brother, what's going on with you?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Ran?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You know, I appreciate you having me on here. Man,
blessings Man, thanks man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
First off, before we get to anything, I need to
have a conversation with you, brother that I hadn't had.
We gonna have this right now. I have to thank you.
And I got to thank you because you may not
know this. You helped me fall in love with the
game of basketball. Wow, And I know you you Maybe
you don't see your impact at the time, but when
(01:04):
you won the championship, I was a little guy and
me and my dad would go to his friend's house.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Off.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Now we go to off News house. We go to
the basement and we watched the games, and my dad
will putting. My dad loves sports. He loved basketball, football,
He loved with your team, the Rockets. He loved you.
He loved the Rockets. And you know, I was little,
so I'm like, man, let me go play with my toys,
let me go hang out. But watching your team as
a young guy, my dad never forced basketball on me.
(01:32):
I'll go, you know, hey, what is that Dad? It
drew my attention. Hey, that's a three point of That's
I fell in love with the game because the speed
you guys played with the success you had, the energy.
So I gotta thank you, brother, because my first experiences
of loving the game, of being a fan of as
a kid in basketball came from you. Man. So I
(01:52):
love and appreciate you and that team even different.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Man, Ran, Man, that means a lot to me.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Man, to hear that coming from you, Man, I didn't
know that, but you know and and and that is
it means a lot, man. And I appreciate that so much, man,
because you know, you don't hear it, and you don't
know this stuff. And then when you guys that come
up behind us and you say these stories like what
you just told me, Man, that means a.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Lot to me.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Man, that's that's that's that's how muche man. I appreciate
that a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's absolute.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
And Vern, Man, I gotta before also to you look great, dog,
do what I do? Respect like no, yeah, yeah, you
know you know you play you played ball headed, you
still a great and all of a sudden you got
a full head of here on what what's up?
Speaker 7 (02:33):
Man?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Everybody got coin rolls and all kind of going on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Vern, what are you doing for your workouts?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Dog?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You are you know what I'm saying, like a lot
of with all due respect to some of the you
know O gez you know someone. Yeah, man, you still are.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Boys looking crazy. A lot of my boys are looking
craves out here.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Nah man. I like to ride bicycles as I get
up early in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I ride bicycles early, like four point thirty by six.
I get them about fifteen twenty miles in a day.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And I wait, you you got fifteen to twenty miles
a day?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I like to get up early, get for that traffic,
get out that I'm a street riders.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I like to ride on the street. So I'm one
of those guys you see on the street.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
You'll be like, man, get you take away, that's.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Me on the street ride.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
So yeah, but our street ride, I lift wats three
four times a week.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And then my boys.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I got one at North Back High School plays on
be Maizor Elead and arm Circuit. And I got one
at Georgia Tech. We're in the transfer portal right now
as we speak. You know, that's that's part of college basketball,
not getting that portal. So and now we're trying to
find them a place to go. But so, but everything's good, man.
I just I just stay working out all the time.
I keep myself energetic and I don't want to look crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Man.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Now you look great, brother, Listen, you look back. Listen.
I need to pick it up here and that I
need to pick it up.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
No, right, you look good in them suits. I've been
seeing you the suits be looking real good. I'd like
what you're doing. Man, you look real well. I like
what to do it?
Speaker 8 (04:03):
All?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Right, Well, let's get to the to the mean potatoes
of it. Burned. We talked about you being the forty
seventh pick in the draft, and obviously you know listen.
It wasn't never a question of your game. You know,
some of us were young at that time. We all
have our own stories, but I want you to walk
me through draft day. Where were you? Who were you with?
I'm just now finding out here. When I got draft
(04:25):
everything was in New York burn so I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, you know, you know, it wasn't that same back
day when I come up and I was at the
I was at my agent's house down in Miami. And
but I sept, and I sept inflicted wounds on myself,
you know what I mean. And and I can honestly
true that I was projected to be Lottery top fifteen pick.
(04:48):
And you know, all time leadings scored at the University
of Florida, second all time leading scored SEC history still today.
But I did everything. I you know, I got caught
up with all that old stuff. You know, I could,
I could talk about it, you know, drugs, and I
was on cocaine.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I don't know how I did it.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
I was on cocaine, I was on marijuana, and I
was an alcoholic. I was all three of those things
when I was in college. And I still, you know,
I just didn't know how I made it through. I don't,
I mean tell it's truth. I just don't remember a
lot in college because I was so far gone in
college and a lot of people don't know and and
(05:30):
I ain't. I'm not afraid to talk about it. And
you know I was. I mean the University of Florida
that in order for me to stay at the University
of Florida, I had to go to the Baby Ford Center.
And that's that's a rehab center down in Orlando that
they had. I had, and it was and it was impatient.
I had to go there and stay there for thirty
days and uh, in order for me to stay at
the University of Florida. But I put all those I
(05:52):
accept the afflicted wounds I did to all my everything
I did myself.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It was because I did and nobody else fought.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It was all my fault.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And that's why I failed to forty seventh pick in
the in the second round. But I knew all I
needed was a shot, you know, because I knew I
could play the game. I knew once and then once
I got to the league. You know, they helped me
out a lot too. You know that you know how
the NBA helped you out when you you just got
to you just gotta let them know you got a problem.
And then if you once you do that, then they'll
they'll kind of guide you and put you in the
(06:22):
right avenues to help you.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
We put you in successful ways. And that's what happened
with me.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So when I got drafted by Denver and then they
traded me right away that same night, Like to San Antonio.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
When did you know you were traded? How did you
find out? You know, my generation, these guys find out
via Twitter or random like, how did you find out
you traded?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Well, you know, everything back then was phone call. They
call phone call. It was phone calls back then. So
they called me and told me, yeah, you know we
drafted you. Just you know, it was a favor for
for the Spurs. They Spurs wanted me. They just nobody
else are getting four. It wasn't number fifty picks that
back then. So I was third to the last pick.
(07:05):
So and they did a fame for the Spurs and
then the Spurs winning, they twitched up the trade right
up to Denver drafting me, and then I came down
to San Antonio and then that's when they had Bob
Hill was there at the time, and Alvin Robinson, Johnny
Dawkins and those guys. You know, so it was it
was tough. It was tough my first year, but I
(07:26):
knew I was gonna be fine, you know. I knew
I could make a team. I just needed a fair
shot now and they gave it to me.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And now, normally I would ask this at the end
of the show, but I appreciate your transparency, and vern
I think you know it. Your story. My story is
to help out the next young you know, brother trying
to make it in the league. If you could give
a young Vernon Maxwell some advice, you know, what would
you say to yourself? What would you how would you
help navigate and shout out to Florida and the NBA
(07:52):
and to you for being transparent and said hey, say hey,
I need help man, and they took steps to help
walk you through that measure. What would advice did you
give to a young Vernon Maxwell?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Well, just see for me then and then. I'm sure
it's a lot of these guys now still today. You know,
it's the pure pressure, you know, with the with your
friends and stuff that's around you. You you so scared
to let them know that, hey, man, I really need
some help, you know, and you don't want to.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
We're so big and mancho you know basketball Vernon Max
well all time leads, scored, the number scorings and at Florida,
you know, and all my friends they just in compliance
with whatever I say.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Do.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah, okay, man, let's go get this bag over here.
Oh yeah, Max's go get that instead of them telling
me yo Max.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Now man, chill yo yo. You you're trying to get somewhere.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
You're trying to do something, but nobody would never say
that to me. So just just just the people you
have around you, man, it's big, man. Make sure that
you let your friends know. Man, it's okay to tell me. Man,
you ain't doing right right now, you know what I mean.
And that's the biggest thing for me. Man, Just the
people around you. Man, it's big man. So make sure
(09:05):
you have people around you that really care about you
and and and that can talk to you and ain't
scared to talk to you, because a lot of these
people be scared to talk to us professional athletes. I
mean even your homeboys who you grew up with. I
mean you grew up with them all your life and
you all used to go through a lot of stuff,
ups and downs and everything. But still once you make
(09:25):
it around, and you know, once you make it a
lot of things change, man, with your friends, with your
you know, I mean your peers and your family, everything changes.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know. It's like they put you way up there
and they scared.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Just it's a lot of just watch who you hang
out with and make sure you let your friends know. Man,
it's okay to tell me when I'm effing up. Man,
that's all. That's what I would say. Yeah, that's that's
the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Coming up next, Vernon, Max was gonna let you know
something about Michael Jordan and his relationship that you never knew.
Stay tuned, will be right.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Back, all right, bird.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So you get the training camp, you get into the season,
walk me through, you know, when you actually get to
San Antonio, what was that like? You know, did you
feel like, man, I'm just as good as these guys
in the NBA. What was your mindset in camp going
in and competing with those guys or was it kind
of a like whoa this is? This ain't college no more?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Well, well, the pace was very fast and the guys
were so much stronger.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And then when I came in with some dogs.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I mean, I hope everybody remember Alvin Robertson, you know,
the squadruple double guy. You know, ten points, ten rebounds,
ten assists and ten steals.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Robertson dumps it down inside of Johnson. Johnson goes to
the hooping, stores Matthews at midteorth back to Robertson, May
drive all the way, deals with to Mitchell down the baseline,
jumpers up good Sway Williams. I tried to pass the
ruby I got stolen by Robertson. Robertson over runs the ball,
finally recovers, goes up, puts it up. Then that's girl.
Twenty points, ten assays, ten rebounds, and tim steeles. Alvin
(11:09):
Robertson has his first quadruples doubles night.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I mean, that boy was he was crazy on defense.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Man.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
So and I came in and we played the same position.
I knew I wasn't gonna start. I knew I ain't
had a chance to, but I learned so much from
that guy. Man and Johnny Dawkins played point guard for
them at that point in time too, So I mean,
great backcourt.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Man.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
When I came into it, I got a lot of
knowledge just by just by practicing with those guys every
day in the summertime. When I went out there, man,
it was totally different. They they took me in with
open arms, man, and they they just showed me that
the NBA wait. And then me and Alvin Robinson we
became real close, and that's when I knew and I learned. Man.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know, I wasn't I'm six four.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
You know, all the shooting guards back you know, they
were six five six seven, six six, they were big, strong,
six four. I'm six five. So I had to put
muscle masks on. So Alvan Robinson got with me and
helped me, and I got up to about one ninety five,
and then I was able to hand them own. Then
I was I was already fast enough and quick enough
(12:14):
and I can always shoot it and score. So I
just had to get stronger. And once I did that,
it was gonna be a problem for everybody. And then
my first year though, we had the worst year ever.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Man.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I mean I went through one of them seasons man,
like I mean, like the Rockets had this year.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I mean it was we was twenty one and sixty one. Man,
it was bad.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
We took Hey, I had a few of those myself.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Verb well, we took a lot of ls, man.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
But you know, Ryan, it's tough man to keep going
out and competing and you knowing you're gonna get your
butt whup.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Man. So I mean it was tough, man.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But you know, I love the game so much, so
I just enjoyed it because that's what I always wanted
to do as a career, and I made it there,
and so it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Vern Is there a moment where you talked about realizing
you weren't strong and for these guys had a knowledge
of the game that you didn't have where they pulled
you aside and it was like a little humbling or
eye opening.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Well, Alvon Robinson, as soon as I got there, you know,
when we were playing pick up ball. You know you're
going you get to the city, go play pick up
all the guys and stuff and they tell you what
to come meet and play. And man, as soon as
that man put his hands on me, Man, that man
rolled me all the way where he wanted to take men.
You know, back then you can grab somebody by the
waist and you can just you can just move and
(13:31):
he just moved me around the flow like he wanted to,
like he was on offense and I was on deepense.
So that's when I knew. I knew I had to
get better with that man. That's when I knew it. Then, Man, so.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Hey, did you have a speaking of that? Did you
have a you know? Welcome to the NBA moment. Listen. Man,
My og was Onteller Herrington Otella Herringson took me to
the other side after practice and we played one on
one and I'm thinking, Man, I got O'teller Man, I
could do him. I got him, Man, he wore me out,
black hand Jays, I couldn't get around.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Did you have somebody I'm trying to Man, I'm telling
you that same guy man alv And Robertson.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That man used to beat me up.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Once I got once.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I knew I can score against him and do my
thing against him when we were playing one on one
because he used to play me on them every day
we used to go down there because I used to
try every day. I told him, you're gonna have to
beat me every day. I don't I got to see.
I don't think you could beat me every day. And
that man was beating me every day. He was just
so strong and such a professional. And I mean, man,
(14:39):
it was just it was bad.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
It was bad. I was so frustrated. I used to
be so mad. Man. But that guy, Alvin Robinson, that
was that guy man for me.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What about actually in the game, you know, how did
you adjust to in game? You know, you said you
were always a guy who could score. You put the
ball in your hands, you were ready. Were there any
players in the league that kind of surprise you were?
You know, hey, man, like this this is different, like
we talked about being different than college, because a lot
of kids don't understand this is not a this ain't
(15:10):
us say this is The league is different.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Man, Hey, this is the best players in the world.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Man.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I mean every night and night out, Man, I could
just go down and just give you some guys real quick,
Michael Jordan, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Gods and Petrovitch.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I mean I could go own and own and own man.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I mean Ron Harper, I mean every night I was
just that was the lineup I had to call. Oh lord,
I had and it was it was rough. It was
real tough man. I mean this every night, man, every
night man, and then you, I mean you, It was
every night it was shoot guards. Could every every guy
that can play back? Then Man, you get some guys,
(15:52):
now you might have an off. I kind of just
float around a little bit tonight because I ain't really
worried about him, but not when I played. You can't
float around on none of these guys. This guy's gonna
They were the kid you man, So it was it
was it was all those guys.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Man. It was tough for me.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I just I had to come ready to play every
night because first of all, like I said, first again,
first underside, and and and I had to come. I
had to be prepared and ready to play and be
a dog the way I played. I had to play
the way I played because I played another way, I
wouldn't even been out on the floor.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Man, where did that come from? Though? Vern see?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
For me?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
For me, I was a skinny guy. So when I
grew up, the first thing people did they put their
hands on me. But when people then realized me and
my daddy used to go in the backyard every day
and he used to just beat me up. He hit me,
he knocked me down, get up, and so I would
guard Shack. I would for the most part. I was
the guy. I wouldn't play the whole series and I
see Shack. I had to go guard Shack because I
(16:50):
wasn't scared. You know what I'm saying. He hit me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Like, let's yeah, you get back up. Yeah, you get
back up and fight.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Because that's why we loved you, was to play a vern.
You were a score, but you impeded. Why where did
that come from?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Back from my hood, man, when I grew up playing
it's called sugar Hill. Back in Gainesville, Florida. Man, the
boys to do like you said your dad used to
do to you. They did everything what you was telling
me that. They made sure I was gonna be tough
as nails. They I used to come back from the
AAU like what we what you just talked about, and
these old circuit teams on the Nikes circuit and all this.
(17:26):
I come back, they'd be like they read all the
accolades and all that. They couldn't wait to see me
and knock me all over the place. And that's where
I got it from. Because when they did me like that,
I just do under others that they do under me,
and that's what I used to do on it, you know.
So like when Michael Jordan used to hit me in
my mouth with the elbow, I looked straight at me
(17:48):
and hit him right back in his mouth with an elbow.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And then, now what we're gonna do? Now, Okay, that's
what I thought.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I thought, that's what I thought, But we both blocked
both us by bust over my mouth, leaning in his
mouth leading.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I like that, though, I loved it.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Michael Jordan's and now Vernon Maxwell is pushing and shoving
with Horace Grant and chart with Jordan's what's the deal?
This is two games in a row in Chicago.
Speaker 10 (18:22):
Stadium, going down the court, Jordan running back down the court,
and they're talking to each other.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Athy bumps into what's the deal? Well, doubt it. You're
gonna throw them both out? Red?
Speaker 10 (18:44):
How about this? How about this trade off? Listen to
this baby, five nineteens for the game?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
You rocket.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
Technical Maxwell with a.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Technical man, I'm gonna ask that since you brought it up.
You know I played for Michael Open and Charlotte. He
actually drafted me to the NBA. But I know Michael
has a lot of those guys and people don't give
him enough respect. Michael has one of the deepest respects
for the game of basketball and the people that he
competed against. You know, off of the court, What was
your relationship like with Michael where their conversation that you
(19:26):
guys had or was there that you know, when y'all
were all done and said like, man, I love you, brother,
I appreciate you. Did you and him, you know, have
one of those moments.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well we competed so hard and then
you know every time I used to try to do
stuff to Mike on the court that nobody else would do,
you know, because everybody showed so much harness to Mike,
too much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Respect before the games, you already defeated. You want to
do that, you done. I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I gotta hit myself all man, I don't care about
Mike Man.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Hey, y'all, Hey, I don't want to hit nothing about
Mike Man. What's y'all? Man, y'all be quiet about that.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Man, And I get myself all round up getting ready
to go, and then on the floor. You know, that's
what he gonna do. Everybody plays against Michael played with Mike.
They know Mike gonna run his mouth. Oh, ain't mix.
You better tie them up tight down there. I looked
down there when he told me that. One game I
was in Chicago Stadium. I was a young boy. He
told me, ain't mix. You better tie them up tight.
(20:20):
I looked down at my feet. I said, talk to
my feet, tie my shoes up tight. He said, yeah,
you better tie the mouthers up tight. I'm goinna get
in your ass.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Boy.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I rested down there. I grabbed them two straight and
I started to tying them. I pulled off trying like
I sprung my damn. I strung mom.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I said, now I got him tight. Now what we're
gonna do. Let's go. Man.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
That man went out my house about eighteen straight. I said,
oh lord boy, I ain't never seen nothing like this,
but this this is amazing night about never done it
like this now Oo. Michael Jordan is the best man.
I mean that man, he was the best man.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Good God.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I used to like to try to get up on
his skin, but man, that don't work.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Man too tough man, But ye're the toughest guy. I
played against.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Wow, and I think like we love that. There was
a mutual respect there for you too, you know. But
that's that's why we loved you.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Yeah, He'll come off the court like after the games
and stuff when I see him out you know here,
I'll see him after the games, like at the restaurants
and stuff. Were like, for I go and eat in
Chicago somewhere, and and you know, he'll tell me a
nice restaurant to go to. He'd come to Houston. He
always liked to go to Popados and stuff like that.
And then you know, I go and I be in there.
(21:32):
He'll come up to me and my wife at the time.
I'm single now, but my wife at the time, he'll
come up to me and and he'll show Harman. She's like, Man, hey, Max, Man,
I know you know these people want us to fight,
man and do all this extra stuff. Man, but I
love the way you played and I love the way
you compete again, man, because a lot of these guys
don't do that with me. Man, But man, keep doing
what you're doing. You're a good ball. I respected that
(21:54):
for that.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
He used to give me that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That's big hold on you and Michael. This is a differ.
I gotta reset this. So let me set this date. Yeah,
this is a completely different So you and Michael darn
there go to blows knows and nose elbow. But he
comes to you later and says, keep doing it, Max,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, that's what these people want us to do. They
want to see me and you fight. And I was like, yeah, man,
you know, we just compete, Man, I just compete like that.
He say, Nah, Max, I like what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Man. I mean, nobody don't do me like that. Man.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
You you keep doing what you're doing. Man, I love
what you're doing. Man, keep competing like that. Man, that's
that's big time. And I was like, man, I appreciate
that means a lot coming from you with my brother,
but nah, we always talk.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Man. He's a great.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Competitive man's and I can see him as a friend
too when I see him, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So yeah, I respect to Mike. Man.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Mike, he just I mean, that's just the way he played,
and that's why he competed. And a lot of people didn't.
You know, a lot of people love him. A lot
of people didn't, you know, because they always won. That's
why it because you know, you want underdogs to be
the best team.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So that's why a lot of people didn't like him.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Absolutely absolutely shout out, shout out MJ.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Man.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I love to hear because of my Mike. I feel
like a lot of people don't know the NBA was
a fraternity back then. And like you said, the way
we grew up or the way you grew up, you
literally will go to blows on the court in the
past of the court. You know it was done.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, after the game, you'll see somebody. You'll walk right
past it. Dude, just about to go and blows with
a right man.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You all right, my brother? Okay, man, laughing back the boy,
you better stop.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Okay, you better stop too, and then get on to
the bus and go over where you're going.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It's just okay, it's over with. Yeah, it's no proud.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Listen, make sure you hang around. Man, we're gonna hear
about a magical moment in history. Houston rockets history coming
up next with coach Matt Max. All right, Verne, we
(24:01):
got to have some fun now, man. I think this
is my favorite segment of the show. It's the NBA
Rookie Life Film Room with Ryan Hollins and I want
to break down a couple of clips. I want to
see where your heart is at and I want you
to put on your coach's hat your coaches had and
I want you to bring I need the Vernon Maxwell
stylet or need I need, but we got Verned. I
need Mad maxon now, okay, I need Mad Max. So
(24:25):
first clip we're gonna get to. Let's go Jalen Green.
Jalen Green and his rookie year hit the biggest shot
of his career over Anthony Davis. And you played the position.
You know you were one of the you know, one
of the best two guards in Houston history. You know
you the respect is is league wide, brother, So you
got to break down this clip here from Jalen Green.
(24:47):
This was the biggest shot his rookie year of his career.
You got lebron A d you in in LA. So
what happens?
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Man?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Put on your put on coach. I need Mad Max,
Like I said, I need Mad Max's coaching hat. All right, Now,
what do you sing in this clip? What the Rockets are doing?
They gotta do it quickly? Greed greed from the outside.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
His first baskets of the second half are two giganic
threes that one out of the rafters and it's a
one point game that was special.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That was special.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Well what I see is so kp J bringing it
down and and you know the NBA is about pick
and rolls and got it.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Got a pick and roll with my guy.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Well what really what they what they did was they
were looking for the mitch Man and they got it
with a d when KPJ gave it off to my command,
Jalen Green. And all Jalen Green did was made the
big guy, just put him in the blend that made
him dance and then and then hit him with the
step that's his that's his pattern shot.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
That little step back three right here, What do you do?
Speaker 4 (25:58):
That's his pattern shot when he liked to do it
going left, and that's what he did. He went to
his patent Spoty got to his spot and knocked it down.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Big shot for the young fella.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
What's that? You were a guy who hit these clutch shots?
What does this say that he's willing to want the
ball in this situation? And what was going through his head?
In your head when you were in some of these moments,
knowing the game was on the line.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Well, you know it's I mean, either I'm gonna make
it or miss it, but I ain't gonna be afraid
to take it, and I'm gonna take it with confidence.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And that's what he did. That's all. He's just. You know,
you can't be ra afraid afraid of that moment.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I don't care what you say about me if I
missed that shot, but I know I'm gonna get a
lot of accolades if I make it. And that's a
big time shot at that moment. Man, I mean for
that young kid, at that moment, I was big. I think,
like you said, his first a second game in LA
that was real big. And he went to his pad move.
That's his pad move right there between the legs, Crowl
Sober stepped back to the left.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Bam.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
There it is all I've arned that. Now we gotta
acknowledge this to take me intaid of mind. You know
he doing a bit, he talking his talk afterwards. You know,
why what does that have to play? What's that meaning?
What is that going in? Jalen another skinny guy, you know,
probably outweighing his matchups, but he ain't scared either. What
do you see from Jalen? And why is the talk important?
(27:12):
Why talk in this moment. Why does this get certain
guys going?
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Because you know, why do he put that big old
guy on me? I'm gonna make him dance. Yes, he
put the put him in the two step, did the
two step with it. I'm gonna make him. He's two
stepp to me. But Jaymon Green did what he's supposed
to do. Man, I mean, that's his pad move and
he got talk at the end. He had to get
that up because now it's a game. Now it's a game.
(27:38):
I mean it's eight point two seconds left for still,
I mean, foul them. You know, they go down and
make two, then you've got a chance to come back
and make a three.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So it's a game now.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, what do you see when you watch Jalen Green?
You know you played the same position in Houston? What
do you see? And if you had I'm sure you
have probably you know, I guess what words would you
have for him? Or have you had for jail and
speaking to him or you know, shotting him out because
he he got to understand what it is. You know.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I love what he's doing. I love what he's becoming.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I mean you could tell the kid works hard on
his craft, works hard on his game, works hard on
his jump shot, he competes everything. I mean, I love
everything about that kid. Man, he's gonna be all He's
an all star. He's gonna be an all Star. He just
got to keep, you know, stay like he is, stay humble,
and just keep working at this thing man like he's doing. Man,
(28:29):
And I tell him all the time, Man, I admire
what he's doing. I mean, he's a he's a great kid.
I mean, a good young kid. I mean, so, I mean,
just just keep doing what build every year every year,
like every summer, he's add something to your game, add
something different to your game, because you know, everybody know
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now. You know this year, but next year, you got
to add something different. You know.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's that And that's what I try to do every year.
And that's what I try to tell his young guys.
But I know he will. But I just I love
that kid the way he plays his way, compete, and
he's not afraid of the moment, the big moment.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Those are huge words coming from you because you talked
to talk and you walked that walk and there was
also another young shooting guard who you had a chance
to actually mentor you didn't get a bunch of time
with them. But we want to go back. We were
looking at the future in Jalen Ringer Green. Let's go
back to the past, Alan Iverson, we wanted we want
to check out some clips from AI and I want
(29:25):
you to put on. I need mad Max. Coach Mad Max.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Now, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Talk to me about a young Alan Iverson. Man, what
did you see from him? What's that relationship like with AI?
And you know how good was he?
Speaker 10 (29:38):
Man?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You spent time with him? What's that relationship like? And
the things that you would say to him.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Man's mindset was so crazy, man, I mean, and his
stature was so crazy too. I mean he had longest,
he got long extremities, he got long arm, long legs,
and its torso as short as hell. It just looked crazy,
it looks. But he's just the most athletic, I mean,
(30:04):
the most competitive person. I mean and in and everything
you do. Man, this man, I mean just I mean
throwing quarters in the corner, man. This man. He want
to win everything.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Man.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So it's just his competitiveness. Man.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And then its size, man, I mean there's size to
be able to take you know that man, so small man.
That man probably wore about one hundred and seventy pounds,
hundred and sixty five pounds. And to take that beaten
night in and night out. Man, that man, he wasn't
just no jump shooting guy. Now he was you know,
he don't want to shoot threes. He really wasn't a
three point shooter like that. Wow, everything was inside that
(30:41):
three point line. He was getting to that cup. Man
in the mid range. Man, that's what he wanted. Look
at the cliffs right now, I mean, you don't see
no threes. All this inside the paint.
Speaker 9 (30:51):
And in Philadelphia tries to take the lead right back
here seventy nine, seventy nine, let's play a ball game, but.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Home.
Speaker 8 (31:01):
Did you see the youngster sky and the punting.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
On the base lot?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I mean so, I mean that's what I know about him.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Man. The competitiveness man, and he just everything. He compete
against everything. And the crossover was crazy. The will to win,
the heart to win, just just don't want to lose,
just love to play the game.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Vernie, is there a story or a moment where you
realized Alan Iverson was different? Did you look at him
and see, you know, were you sizing them up. Did
you grab him into mentorn first or was there that
that first moment where you go, hey, he different, he
a little too fast for me, you know, m you
know he's.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
At the guard that moment in practice. You know from
me and Hary McKee, you used to have to take
turns guardge. You know he was talking about he didn't
want to practice. That who he comes to practice and
bust your ay. I mean he.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Competed, the competed in practice like you do in the games.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
It's crazy, man, you be thinking this man, go out
and hang out the four five in the morning, man,
and come that gym at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Because he loved to compete, man like that. That's what
he's just.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
He's just a When he playing basketball, he just feels
like he's the best player on the floor. I don't
care who's out there, Michael Jordan. He just felt like
he's the best player on the floor.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I don't care. That's why he felt.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Vern Ai also talked about you going to back for him,
you having his back, and vern we know that's the
type of guy you've always been, but he was touched
by that. Why did you do that? Why did you
feel compelled at that point in your career to say,
I gotta make sure he not.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Touched a lot of teams.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Just try to beat him up, you know, and just
you know, and get physical with him and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I used to tell him, now you do that again,
now do it again.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I'm man, You're gonna go to the locker room cause
I'm swinging on you, and he gonna pay my fine.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Hold On, who is this with vern?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
Hold On?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Slow down?
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Give me this story?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Who put hands on Ai?
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Well, everybody used to try to do it to him.
I used to tell him to man, do it again.
If you do it again. Now I'm gonna go and
swing on and we're gonna go to the locker room.
It's gonna continue back there in the locker room because
I don't know how to cut this dof.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
So you used to tell another player, multiple players, we're
gonna get into it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I'm gonna follow you. Yeah, I'm gone.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Then, you know, ain't nobody back to the game still
going and security guard be back there. But I'm gonna
get in there and I don't care how bad it get.
He gonna pay the fine. So that's why I just
tell him because he was.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I mean that was my man. Man.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
We got so close off the court, man, And I
mean I knew everybody think about him, Man, his family
and everybody, allse guys.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Man and man, we were so close. Man, it's like
my little brother, man.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And that's a blessing.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And I think you know, the NBA's a fraternity. And
when you had those relationships, and you know, you guys
were very similar and undersized two guards that you I'm
sure you hadn't the finity towards him and try to
give him all the game that you maybe didn't have,
you know, right.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
He was a student of the game. He loved the game. Man.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
He liked to talk basketball. He could talk basketball all
day long. That's all he does. Talk about basketball like
he still do it today. Man, he's still doing today.
But he loves stephen A. He loves breaking down in
the game. He loves Kobe, he loves Mike. You know,
you can't talk nothing about them three guys right there.
(34:17):
He goes crazy. Oh you talk about Steven A, Michael
Jordan and Kobe, he gonna go crazy on. Oh man,
it's a conversation. This is debate all day, yes, man.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Alright, bird. Now, now we gotta go. We spoke at
Ai and how he did his thing. Yeah, you made history,
my good brother. One game. And I'm not just talking
about the championships. I gotta talk about that thirty Listen.
I saw Klay Thompson do it against when I was
in Sacramento. He jumped at the thirty five ball whatever
in one quarter. But you also did it.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
We gotta run one of these clips, and I need you.
I need you to walk me through this. A fifty
one piece Okay, Maxwell with the rebound it in for
the two.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
That's what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Get a little closer in him. Yeah, I'm simple. Short, Wait, Bill,
that wasn't too simple. Not many guards can hang in
the air for that.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Maxwell on the fly, lasi Olwi's foul and he'll shoot two.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Maxwell takes it in for two.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
More.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Buck Johnson popping outside looking down and Maxwell puts up
a three pointer. Maxwell with a great move out front
jump shot for two.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Not an easy jumper.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
He oh, look at Maxwell takes it in, puts it up.
He'll go back to the free throw line. Eighty five
seventy nine. There's Maxwell on the run again. Maxwell puts
it up and then another three point opportunity for Vernon Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I cannot believe it. He's so red hot.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Don't touch you, Valentine with a three pointer and sleep
he gets the rebound. There he goes Maxwell Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
They love it in the summit. Time out Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Listen to this crowd, appreciate the job Vernon Maxwell has
done forty six points for Maxwell, and I just and
I steal, I steal by Vernon.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
He lays it up, It goes in and he's found
unfound lavable. Just give it to Maxwell. Everybody's outing.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
He's gonna go for fifty points, twenty eight points in
this quarter. George Gervin, if you're interested, holds the NBA
record for the most points in a quarter thirty three,
going where it come, fifty one points and thirty points
in the fourth quarter, he outscored Cleveland thirty to twenty six.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All on his own. Were you in one of those zones?
Would you did somebody say something to you to hold
the man? Did you get out of the slump? Would
you rolling? Let's watch this, This this is history.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Ain't too many people had this conversation. Just let me be,
let us be a fly. On the wall. Man, how
did this happy burn?
Speaker 4 (37:10):
But at this point in time right here, I just
got gone, you know, early in the game at first,
and you know in next game right here, I really
didn't feel good going in this game, you know, because Ron,
you know how it be some games you just feel
like your legs are dead and you just say you
just ain't in it. And then I got to going.
And then the game started and I started just throwing,
and I'll say, well man, and then I started getting
(37:32):
to the line. I started going to the free throw line,
and I was said, damn, they just keep fouling.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
And then I got going. I got going on the
free throw line. See.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
And then the guy started looking for me. When they
said Brian is going look at it. I was thought
about that that bammed. I said, okay, damn, it might
be my night right now. I said, okay, I gotta
get that. Okay, now now did not sleeping floor. He's
looking for me. I'm getting it going, yes see, I'm
mixing it up inside outside now That's what I said. Okay,
(38:01):
Now don changey telling me come on now, keep going Max.
That's what used to always tell me. And then when
I started making this crazy stuff like this right here.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And I knew.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I said, it's gonna be a long night for these
guys out here, Craig Eloyd and them. I'm gonna do
Craig like old Michael Jordan did it. I'm gonna give
him old fifty point piece out here. Yeah, him and
Donnie Valentine, all them guys. Man, I had to yeah,
but I got to go. And when I get to
going like that, man free throws falling and looking at it,
they running plays for me. Look at oh Lord, oh lord,
(38:32):
Oh don't don't put it on Brad like that. Put
the shoulder in the Brad. Look at Brad. Want to
help me up?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Brad? What'd you help me up for?
Speaker 4 (38:38):
I'm trying to give you a fit the ball piece, Baby,
I'm in the kitchen cooking up that thing right now.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I'm killing Hey, bro, were you were you trash talking
tom or were.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
You just like you know?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I was?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
You know, come on, look at a sleep they just leave.
It was just throwing it to me. That's when I
knew it was me. I said, Okay, I know I
had that in me. Stop nah, man, But I knew it.
My nice sleeping floor did a great job, finding me, man,
keep me in and and he ran everything for me
that night, sleeping floor. Dream wasn't playing that night too, now,
(39:11):
not alone now Dream look at dream over that and
I poked with our shirt. That's the only reason I
was able to do it, because Dream wasn't out there
that night.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
That's my dream. I love your dream.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I couldn't have did it.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
With you out there. I couldn't have got all them
points without you. With you out there, Dream called we
was going to dream.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
What were your teammates saying to you at some point?
Was it let him cook? Or was it keep going,
keep going? You're talking about coach Cheney.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Everybody was like, man, go, man, keep going. Man, you
got farty, you got party. Man, wait you wait, get
the fifty. Everybody was just everybody was so excited for
me on the bench man. And when I robbed him
around here, Gerald Patio, I said, oh yeah, giving them cookies.
And Jack Brad just like he was trying to help
me get the fifty.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
He was he wasn't even fouling me hard.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
He was just like he was just like touch following me,
and I was like looking forward to knock me over
there by the bench somewhere yeh yeah. And then when
they scored, I was like, okay, get here. They was
trying to give me the ball. Look, get here, get here,
get here. That's a close game too.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
So it was just my night.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
You know today, if you blow up, you're gonna be
on Sports Center, You're gonna be on the phone or
you know, how did the word travel of this game?
What were people calling you the next day? How did
things go after this?
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Like eleven thirty, twelve o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh mat, whoa boy?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
You went off to night boa You killed them? Oh
lord boy, that's what And that's how everybody find that.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Back in the day, you know, we ain't have social
media back then, Dream was happy for me.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
That poke shirt.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I'll look at it, and you know what, man, very
when we first got on, that's when I see you guys,
you Kenny Dreamed. You guys look so good, Mario like,
you guys look so good. It is rare, man, But
I think it says a lot about the hard work
that you guys put in. Even Rudy Coach looked great, like, yeah, look,
(40:59):
you guys put in and y'all still look good today. Yeah,
I think that says a lot.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Now we got to take another trip down memory lane. Man,
walk me through game seven. Vern? Oh Man, were you
guys nervous? Did you know you were going to win
the game? Was it trash talk? Did you have to
put on for the city? Talk to me about this
game seven? Because you showed out, brother, you dropped twenty
one full rebounds defended. I mean, this is at the crib,
(41:28):
the first chick, that first chip man. Talk to me
about this game seven. Take me into the locker room.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
What was happening here.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
First of all? Before the game got it was?
Speaker 4 (41:39):
I mean, like man, I tell people all the time, Man,
when you when I walked in that arena, Man, I
never walked in nothing like that ever in my life before. Man,
you can feel the tension in that arena. I've never
felt that. It was so the tension was so thick
you can cut it with a knife. I mean, that
was pressure, and I've never felt the pressure. I've never been.
I ain't scared of nothing. But we were so evenly matched.
(42:01):
But we just knew we had to go get one
of those games in New York. Man to get back
to Houston, man, And once we got it back to Houston,
we knew we were gonna be all right because we
hadn't lost on our home court, man in the playoffs.
But New York came and they beat us, and now
Phoenix beat us too a couple of times.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
But we went out there and did I think with
Phoenix two. But this was an evening, massed series. Man,
we knew it was gonna be tough, man.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
I mean, John Starks, Vernon, Max Well, Derrick Harper, Kenneth Smell,
Robert Ry, Charles Smill, Charles Oakley, our oldest story, Patrick
Ewing a lodge one, man, I mean, what.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Else could you did coming off the bench?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Mario Sam they got Greg Anthony, they got you know,
Hubert Davis, I mean just evenly matched.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Gag serious man. So we knew it was gonna be tough.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
But I know, once we got back, we got that
one game up there, I knew we were gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Once that got back to the house, we were gonna
win two games in a row.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now, vern did you feel like going into the game
you needed to step up and do a little more?
Did you just trust that, hey, if the shots come
my way. I'm gonna knock them down. What was your
mindset coming into this game or was there anything that like,
how did y'all talk in in the locker room? Was
it like, hey burn, bring it?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
It really wasn't a lot of talking going on.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
You could tell everybody got there trying to get focused
and what they had to do at hand, you know,
going down into the game, you know, and I kind
of felt like they were out playing us, our guards,
Me and Kenny, you know, New York, next John and
and Derrick Harper. I felt like they were out playing us,
and I kind of felt like, you know, in order
for us to have success in this game seven, I
(43:36):
had to do more. And that's what I had in
my mindset going into Game seven. Vernon Mixwell got to
do better than what he been doing on the offensive end,
and I already played I'm gonna play defense. I think
John went to for eighteen or something like that. So
I had to I had to clamps on him. But
I had to just go out and I had to
do more on the offensive end to help Dream out
(43:58):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
And that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Now, you hit the go ahead bucket, man, You hit arguably,
you know, one of the biggest shots in not just
Houston NBA history. What was the play that I was run?
Did you know the ball? Because you can't you let
it go. Walk me through the moment in this game
and walk me through this play. Let me know what
we don't know about this matchup to feel the moment
(44:21):
was Dream cooking? You know, was the game tight? You
know where was your mindset?
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Well?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
First, right there you see Dream hit it with the
dream shape, bye bye bye, with the little hook over
the shoulder.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And then we knew they were gonna come and help.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And John he just he was just he just went
down a little too fun out of that paint.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
You can't touch the paint.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
When a man can shoot that trigger so quick, you
can't touch down in the paint like that. With me,
I know, I'm looking like I ain't ready, but I'm
just wiping my fingers off where I can get ready
to roast this ass. And and now I love John
Starts to death.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
But Dream made a great pass.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You can look at it when he's spanning the same
movie just hit him with. And then he jumped up
in there and found me coming down. And John Stock
had too much. He was too far into paint, and
I was ready to go right there to see it,
just step back and ready to knock him down too late.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
John Babies shovel the fun talk about talk about dreams passing,
because here's the thing for a big man, he just
throw it to you. He setting you up, he hitting
(45:31):
you right in the bread basket. How good of a
passer was Dreamer? Why was that important?
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Man?
Speaker 4 (45:36):
It's great to have a big compass like that to
find guys like that, and then you don't have to
reach out to the left, reach out to the left, right,
and he's right, and that bread basket right there, that's
just like he's It's like it's like one two three.
I mean, that's the pass was everything. If I had
to reach out to the right a little bit, or
reach out to the left, or reach down to try
(45:57):
to get that ball, I probably wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Have made it.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
But the past was perfect, man, I mean perfect pass.
Look way he hit me at rap in my hands
right there, right in the bread basket. Damn never knew
when you hit that shot.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Did you know it was over? Did you know?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (46:12):
I know.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
That's why I just dumped on the floor and everybody
then come out there. I knew it was a rap
there and we done went up by four five points.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I think it was over there.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Did you how about the emotions? Man? I know, listen, man,
you've been through so much in your life. Did it
hit you then or was it more after the game
of like yo, like this is real? Ron?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
You know, it really didn't hit me until we had
the parade though. I mean it took that loan because
it was so many emotions going on. Because I never
ever thought I ever been in a position ever win
an NBA championship ring man, and then for me to
be able to do it, and then to ring to Houston,
the first championship ever in the city, in any sport,
in sport, that's big. I mean, that's that's memorable for life,
(46:55):
you know. So, and that's why I was glad. I
was meant we were able as a team, able to
bring the first championship to Houston.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Delvern Any Sport so vernon baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Six of seven from the line like a seven of.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Eight, twenty one points, rockets again buy six time, running
out all the new y are next, Mark, Here's running
off fall but night jee mighty play mighty four NBA
Champ Air.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Wow. Yeah, well, Vern, I'm so humble man that you
taking the time. I'm privileged to do this. I know
maybe you didn't know going in, but what you meant,
you know, to my career and how many lives did
you touched?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Appreciate that?
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Listen, Vern selfishly, a lot of us live through you.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
That's why we love you. By the week.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
You appreciate that you've been able to say some of
the things you know we can't say.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
You know what I'm saying a lot. I don't think
you might want to real bad, but we were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, I like what Verne just said. I want to
say that. That's right. I appreciate to Ryan so much, Man,
but thanks for having me on man.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And also, before we get out of here, Vern, it's
very important you blessed us here. The fans want to know,
how can we support you? What are you doing next?
You talked about the pod, you talk about your boys
playing ball. How can we support you, man? Because we
love everything you're doing. That's that's all some port. Whatever
causes you behind, let us know so we can shout
you out.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Okay, now I got my you know my map Styff
podcast you know about through Bravada, which is doing real well.
I mean, had some good shows with Kenny Ai Sam
and looking forward to doing you Mario and some other
future teammates and some of the future guys and some
of the guys that's playing on the team now. So
but nah, man, that's it. And my son's at Georgia Tech.
(48:54):
I got him in the portal. That's part of the
college basketball life.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Now.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
You gotta probably gonna touch the portal and we're in
that now, trying to find a place for him. My
young man's playing with the b Mans that North Mack.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
He's had a great year.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
We went to the final Flourida State. We lost, but
everything's going well. Man, I'm a blessed man. Man, I
can't complain about anything.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Man, Well, I can't tell you aesthetic. We are to
have had you on here. You are a pillar of
NBA history.
Speaker 5 (49:21):
Man.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Thanks, we're right with you when you represent so much
of us. Man. So I can't thank you, no, brother,
And we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, I talk to you soon, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Wow, this was absolutely amazing talking with Vernon Maxwell. I
love what he's done for the game of basketball. Love
the way that he gets back. Make sure you, guys,
reach out and support This was a really cool episode
from one of the most down to earth, humble, organic
human beings that I've ever known or been a fan of.
But even more important, if you like what you're hearing,
(49:53):
you appreciate it. Make sure you spread the word. You like,
you follow, subscribe, you know, whatever it may be. We
appreciate you. Guys, love you. We can't do without you.
See you next week. M
How's everybody doing. I want to welcome you into a
very very special episode of NBA Rookie Life with Ryan
hollins Man. Listen, man, listen. This guest that we have
today is special to me and I'm gonna laborate on
it because he was big in my career and I
don't even think he knows how big he was in
my career. He was the forty seventh pick in the
(00:25):
nineteen eighty eight draft. World Champion. Listen. A man of
the people, none other than verning mad Max Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Appreciate your time, brother, what's going on with you?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Ran?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You know, I appreciate you having me on here. Man,
blessings Man, thanks man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
First off, before we get to anything, I need to
have a conversation with you, brother that I hadn't had.
We gonna have this right now. I have to thank you.
And I got to thank you because you may not
know this. You helped me fall in love with the
game of basketball. Wow, And I know you you Maybe
you don't see your impact at the time, but when
(01:04):
you won the championship, I was a little guy and
me and my dad would go to his friend's house.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Off.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Now we go to off News house. We go to
the basement and we watched the games, and my dad
will putting. My dad loves sports. He loved basketball, football,
He loved with your team, the Rockets. He loved you.
He loved the Rockets. And you know, I was little,
so I'm like, man, let me go play with my toys,
let me go hang out. But watching your team as
a young guy, my dad never forced basketball on me.
(01:32):
I'll go, you know, hey, what is that Dad? It
drew my attention. Hey, that's a three point of That's
I fell in love with the game because the speed
you guys played with the success you had, the energy.
So I gotta thank you, brother, because my first experiences
of loving the game, of being a fan of as
a kid in basketball came from you. Man. So I
(01:52):
love and appreciate you and that team even different.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Man, Ran, Man, that means a lot to me.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Man, to hear that coming from you, Man, I didn't
know that, but you know and and and that is
it means a lot, man. And I appreciate that so much, man,
because you know, you don't hear it, and you don't
know this stuff. And then when you guys that come
up behind us and you say these stories like what
you just told me, Man, that means a.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Lot to me.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Man, that's that's that's that's how muche man. I appreciate
that a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's absolute.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
And Vern, Man, I gotta before also to you look great, dog,
do what I do? Respect like no, yeah, yeah, you
know you know you play you played ball headed, you
still a great and all of a sudden you got
a full head of here on what what's up?
Speaker 7 (02:33):
Man?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Everybody got coin rolls and all kind of going on.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Vern, what are you doing for your workouts?
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Dog?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You are you know what I'm saying, like a lot
of with all due respect to some of the you
know O gez you know someone. Yeah, man, you still are.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Boys looking crazy. A lot of my boys are looking
craves out here.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Nah man. I like to ride bicycles as I get
up early in the morning.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I ride bicycles early, like four point thirty by six.
I get them about fifteen twenty miles in a day.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
And I wait, you you got fifteen to twenty miles
a day?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
I like to get up early, get for that traffic,
get out that I'm a street riders.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I like to ride on the street. So I'm one
of those guys you see on the street.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
You'll be like, man, get you take away, that's.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Me on the street ride.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
So yeah, but our street ride, I lift wats three
four times a week.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
And then my boys.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I got one at North Back High School plays on
be Maizor Elead and arm Circuit. And I got one
at Georgia Tech. We're in the transfer portal right now
as we speak. You know, that's that's part of college basketball,
not getting that portal. So and now we're trying to
find them a place to go. But so, but everything's good, man.
I just I just stay working out all the time.
I keep myself energetic and I don't want to look crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Man.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Now you look great, brother, Listen, you look back. Listen.
I need to pick it up here and that I
need to pick it up.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
No, right, you look good in them suits. I've been
seeing you the suits be looking real good. I'd like
what you're doing. Man, you look real well. I like
what to do it?
Speaker 8 (04:03):
All?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Right, Well, let's get to the to the mean potatoes
of it. Burned. We talked about you being the forty
seventh pick in the draft, and obviously you know listen.
It wasn't never a question of your game. You know,
some of us were young at that time. We all
have our own stories, but I want you to walk
me through draft day. Where were you? Who were you with?
I'm just now finding out here. When I got draft
(04:25):
everything was in New York burn so I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, you know, you know, it wasn't that same back
day when I come up and I was at the
I was at my agent's house down in Miami. And
but I sept, and I sept inflicted wounds on myself,
you know what I mean. And and I can honestly
true that I was projected to be Lottery top fifteen pick.
(04:48):
And you know, all time leadings scored at the University
of Florida, second all time leading scored SEC history still today.
But I did everything. I you know, I got caught
up with all that old stuff. You know, I could,
I could talk about it, you know, drugs, and I
was on cocaine.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I don't know how I did it.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
I was on cocaine, I was on marijuana, and I
was an alcoholic. I was all three of those things
when I was in college. And I still, you know,
I just didn't know how I made it through. I don't,
I mean tell it's truth. I just don't remember a
lot in college because I was so far gone in
college and a lot of people don't know and and
(05:30):
I ain't. I'm not afraid to talk about it. And
you know I was. I mean the University of Florida
that in order for me to stay at the University
of Florida, I had to go to the Baby Ford Center.
And that's that's a rehab center down in Orlando that
they had. I had, and it was and it was impatient.
I had to go there and stay there for thirty
days and uh, in order for me to stay at
the University of Florida. But I put all those I
(05:52):
accept the afflicted wounds I did to all my everything
I did myself.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
It was because I did and nobody else fought.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It was all my fault.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And that's why I failed to forty seventh pick in
the in the second round. But I knew all I
needed was a shot, you know, because I knew I
could play the game. I knew once and then once
I got to the league. You know, they helped me
out a lot too. You know that you know how
the NBA helped you out when you you just got
to you just gotta let them know you got a problem.
And then if you once you do that, then they'll
they'll kind of guide you and put you in the
(06:22):
right avenues to help you.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
We put you in successful ways. And that's what happened
with me.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So when I got drafted by Denver and then they
traded me right away that same night, Like to San Antonio.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
When did you know you were traded? How did you
find out? You know, my generation, these guys find out
via Twitter or random like, how did you find out
you traded?
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Well, you know, everything back then was phone call. They
call phone call. It was phone calls back then. So
they called me and told me, yeah, you know we
drafted you. Just you know, it was a favor for
for the Spurs. They Spurs wanted me. They just nobody
else are getting four. It wasn't number fifty picks that
back then. So I was third to the last pick.
(07:05):
So and they did a fame for the Spurs and
then the Spurs winning, they twitched up the trade right
up to Denver drafting me, and then I came down
to San Antonio and then that's when they had Bob
Hill was there at the time, and Alvin Robinson, Johnny
Dawkins and those guys. You know, so it was it
was tough. It was tough my first year, but I
(07:26):
knew I was gonna be fine, you know. I knew
I could make a team. I just needed a fair
shot now and they gave it to me.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And now, normally I would ask this at the end
of the show, but I appreciate your transparency, and vern
I think you know it. Your story. My story is
to help out the next young you know, brother trying
to make it in the league. If you could give
a young Vernon Maxwell some advice, you know, what would
you say to yourself? What would you how would you
help navigate and shout out to Florida and the NBA
(07:52):
and to you for being transparent and said hey, say hey,
I need help man, and they took steps to help
walk you through that measure. What would advice did you
give to a young Vernon Maxwell?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Well, just see for me then and then. I'm sure
it's a lot of these guys now still today. You know,
it's the pure pressure, you know, with the with your
friends and stuff that's around you. You you so scared
to let them know that, hey, man, I really need
some help, you know, and you don't want to.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
We're so big and mancho you know basketball Vernon Max
well all time leads, scored, the number scorings and at Florida,
you know, and all my friends they just in compliance
with whatever I say.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Do.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah, okay, man, let's go get this bag over here.
Oh yeah, Max's go get that instead of them telling
me yo Max.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Now man, chill yo yo. You you're trying to get somewhere.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
You're trying to do something, but nobody would never say
that to me. So just just just the people you
have around you, man, it's big, man. Make sure that
you let your friends know. Man, it's okay to tell me. Man,
you ain't doing right right now, you know what I mean.
And that's the biggest thing for me. Man, Just the
people around you. Man, it's big man. So make sure
(09:05):
you have people around you that really care about you
and and and that can talk to you and ain't
scared to talk to you, because a lot of these
people be scared to talk to us professional athletes. I
mean even your homeboys who you grew up with. I
mean you grew up with them all your life and
you all used to go through a lot of stuff,
ups and downs and everything. But still once you make
(09:25):
it around, and you know, once you make it a
lot of things change, man, with your friends, with your
you know, I mean your peers and your family, everything changes.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You know. It's like they put you way up there
and they scared.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Just it's a lot of just watch who you hang
out with and make sure you let your friends know. Man,
it's okay to tell me when I'm effing up. Man,
that's all. That's what I would say. Yeah, that's that's
the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Coming up next, Vernon, Max was gonna let you know
something about Michael Jordan and his relationship that you never knew.
Stay tuned, will be right.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Back, all right, bird.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
So you get the training camp, you get into the season,
walk me through, you know, when you actually get to
San Antonio, what was that like? You know, did you
feel like, man, I'm just as good as these guys
in the NBA. What was your mindset in camp going
in and competing with those guys or was it kind
of a like whoa this is? This ain't college no more?
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Well, well, the pace was very fast and the guys
were so much stronger.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And then when I came in with some dogs.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
I mean, I hope everybody remember Alvin Robertson, you know,
the squadruple double guy. You know, ten points, ten rebounds,
ten assists and ten steals.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Robertson dumps it down inside of Johnson. Johnson goes to
the hooping, stores Matthews at midteorth back to Robertson, May
drive all the way, deals with to Mitchell down the baseline,
jumpers up good Sway Williams. I tried to pass the
ruby I got stolen by Robertson. Robertson over runs the ball,
finally recovers, goes up, puts it up. Then that's girl.
Twenty points, ten assays, ten rebounds, and tim steeles. Alvin
(11:09):
Robertson has his first quadruples doubles night.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I mean, that boy was he was crazy on defense.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Man.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
So and I came in and we played the same position.
I knew I wasn't gonna start. I knew I ain't
had a chance to, but I learned so much from
that guy. Man and Johnny Dawkins played point guard for
them at that point in time too, So I mean,
great backcourt.
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Man.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
When I came into it, I got a lot of
knowledge just by just by practicing with those guys every
day in the summertime. When I went out there, man,
it was totally different. They they took me in with
open arms, man, and they they just showed me that
the NBA wait. And then me and Alvin Robinson we
became real close, and that's when I knew and I learned. Man.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know, I wasn't I'm six four.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
You know, all the shooting guards back you know, they
were six five six seven, six six, they were big, strong,
six four. I'm six five. So I had to put
muscle masks on. So Alvan Robinson got with me and
helped me, and I got up to about one ninety five,
and then I was able to hand them own. Then
I was I was already fast enough and quick enough
(12:14):
and I can always shoot it and score. So I
just had to get stronger. And once I did that,
it was gonna be a problem for everybody. And then
my first year though, we had the worst year ever.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Man.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I mean I went through one of them seasons man,
like I mean, like the Rockets had this year.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I mean it was we was twenty one and sixty one. Man,
it was bad.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
We took Hey, I had a few of those myself.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Verb well, we took a lot of ls, man.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
But you know, Ryan, it's tough man to keep going
out and competing and you knowing you're gonna get your
butt whup.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Man. So I mean it was tough, man.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
But you know, I love the game so much, so
I just enjoyed it because that's what I always wanted
to do as a career, and I made it there,
and so it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Vern Is there a moment where you talked about realizing
you weren't strong and for these guys had a knowledge
of the game that you didn't have where they pulled
you aside and it was like a little humbling or
eye opening.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Well, Alvon Robinson, as soon as I got there, you know,
when we were playing pick up ball. You know you're
going you get to the city, go play pick up
all the guys and stuff and they tell you what
to come meet and play. And man, as soon as
that man put his hands on me, Man, that man
rolled me all the way where he wanted to take men.
You know, back then you can grab somebody by the
waist and you can just you can just move and
(13:31):
he just moved me around the flow like he wanted to,
like he was on offense and I was on deepense.
So that's when I knew. I knew I had to
get better with that man. That's when I knew it. Then, Man, so.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Hey, did you have a speaking of that? Did you
have a you know? Welcome to the NBA moment. Listen. Man,
My og was Onteller Herrington Otella Herringson took me to
the other side after practice and we played one on
one and I'm thinking, Man, I got O'teller Man, I
could do him. I got him, Man, he wore me out,
black hand Jays, I couldn't get around.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Did you have somebody I'm trying to Man, I'm telling
you that same guy man alv And Robertson.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That man used to beat me up.
Speaker 5 (14:14):
Man.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Once I got once.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I knew I can score against him and do my
thing against him when we were playing one on one
because he used to play me on them every day
we used to go down there because I used to
try every day. I told him, you're gonna have to
beat me every day. I don't I got to see.
I don't think you could beat me every day. And
that man was beating me every day. He was just
so strong and such a professional. And I mean, man,
(14:39):
it was just it was bad.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
It was bad. I was so frustrated. I used to
be so mad. Man. But that guy, Alvin Robinson, that
was that guy man for me.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
What about actually in the game, you know, how did
you adjust to in game? You know, you said you
were always a guy who could score. You put the
ball in your hands, you were ready. Were there any
players in the league that kind of surprise you were?
You know, hey, man, like this this is different, like
we talked about being different than college, because a lot
of kids don't understand this is not a this ain't
(15:10):
us say this is The league is different.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Man, Hey, this is the best players in the world.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Man.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
I mean every night and night out, Man, I could
just go down and just give you some guys real quick,
Michael Jordan, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Gods and Petrovitch.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I mean I could go own and own and own man.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I mean Ron Harper, I mean every night I was
just that was the lineup I had to call. Oh lord,
I had and it was it was rough. It was
real tough man. I mean this every night, man, every
night man, and then you, I mean you, It was
every night it was shoot guards. Could every every guy
that can play back? Then Man, you get some guys,
(15:52):
now you might have an off. I kind of just
float around a little bit tonight because I ain't really
worried about him, but not when I played. You can't
float around on none of these guys. This guy's gonna
They were the kid you man, So it was it
was it was all those guys.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Man. It was tough for me.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I just I had to come ready to play every
night because first of all, like I said, first again,
first underside, and and and I had to come. I
had to be prepared and ready to play and be
a dog the way I played. I had to play
the way I played because I played another way, I
wouldn't even been out on the floor.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Man, where did that come from? Though? Vern see?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
For me?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
For me, I was a skinny guy. So when I
grew up, the first thing people did they put their
hands on me. But when people then realized me and
my daddy used to go in the backyard every day
and he used to just beat me up. He hit me,
he knocked me down, get up, and so I would
guard Shack. I would for the most part. I was
the guy. I wouldn't play the whole series and I
see Shack. I had to go guard Shack because I
(16:50):
wasn't scared. You know what I'm saying. He hit me, I'm.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Like, let's yeah, you get back up. Yeah, you get
back up and fight.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Because that's why we loved you, was to play a vern.
You were a score, but you impeded. Why where did
that come from?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Back from my hood, man, when I grew up playing
it's called sugar Hill. Back in Gainesville, Florida. Man, the
boys to do like you said your dad used to
do to you. They did everything what you was telling
me that. They made sure I was gonna be tough
as nails. They I used to come back from the
AAU like what we what you just talked about, and
these old circuit teams on the Nikes circuit and all this.
(17:26):
I come back, they'd be like they read all the
accolades and all that. They couldn't wait to see me
and knock me all over the place. And that's where
I got it from. Because when they did me like that,
I just do under others that they do under me,
and that's what I used to do on it, you know.
So like when Michael Jordan used to hit me in
my mouth with the elbow, I looked straight at me
(17:48):
and hit him right back in his mouth with an elbow.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And then, now what we're gonna do? Now, Okay, that's
what I thought.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I thought, that's what I thought, But we both blocked
both us by bust over my mouth, leaning in his
mouth leading.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I like that, though, I loved it.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Michael Jordan's and now Vernon Maxwell is pushing and shoving
with Horace Grant and chart with Jordan's what's the deal?
This is two games in a row in Chicago.
Speaker 10 (18:22):
Stadium, going down the court, Jordan running back down the court,
and they're talking to each other.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Athy bumps into what's the deal? Well, doubt it. You're
gonna throw them both out? Red?
Speaker 10 (18:44):
How about this? How about this trade off? Listen to
this baby, five nineteens for the game?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
You rocket.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
Technical Maxwell with a.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Technical man, I'm gonna ask that since you brought it up.
You know I played for Michael Open and Charlotte. He
actually drafted me to the NBA. But I know Michael
has a lot of those guys and people don't give
him enough respect. Michael has one of the deepest respects
for the game of basketball and the people that he
competed against. You know, off of the court, What was
your relationship like with Michael where their conversation that you
(19:26):
guys had or was there that you know, when y'all
were all done and said like, man, I love you, brother,
I appreciate you. Did you and him, you know, have
one of those moments.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well we competed so hard and then
you know every time I used to try to do
stuff to Mike on the court that nobody else would do,
you know, because everybody showed so much harness to Mike,
too much.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Respect before the games, you already defeated. You want to
do that, you done. I can't do that.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I gotta hit myself all man, I don't care about
Mike Man.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Hey, y'all, Hey, I don't want to hit nothing about
Mike Man. What's y'all? Man, y'all be quiet about that.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Man, And I get myself all round up getting ready
to go, and then on the floor. You know, that's
what he gonna do. Everybody plays against Michael played with Mike.
They know Mike gonna run his mouth. Oh, ain't mix.
You better tie them up tight down there. I looked
down there when he told me that. One game I
was in Chicago Stadium. I was a young boy. He
told me, ain't mix. You better tie them up tight.
(20:20):
I looked down at my feet. I said, talk to
my feet, tie my shoes up tight. He said, yeah,
you better tie the mouthers up tight. I'm goinna get
in your ass.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Boy.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I rested down there. I grabbed them two straight and
I started to tying them. I pulled off trying like
I sprung my damn. I strung mom.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I said, now I got him tight. Now what we're
gonna do. Let's go. Man.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
That man went out my house about eighteen straight. I said,
oh lord boy, I ain't never seen nothing like this,
but this this is amazing night about never done it
like this now Oo. Michael Jordan is the best man.
I mean that man, he was the best man.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Good God.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I used to like to try to get up on
his skin, but man, that don't work.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Man too tough man, But ye're the toughest guy. I
played against.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Wow, and I think like we love that. There was
a mutual respect there for you too, you know. But
that's that's why we loved you.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Yeah, He'll come off the court like after the games
and stuff when I see him out you know here,
I'll see him after the games, like at the restaurants
and stuff. Were like, for I go and eat in
Chicago somewhere, and and you know, he'll tell me a
nice restaurant to go to. He'd come to Houston. He
always liked to go to Popados and stuff like that.
And then you know, I go and I be in there.
(21:32):
He'll come up to me and my wife at the time.
I'm single now, but my wife at the time, he'll
come up to me and and he'll show Harman. She's like, Man, hey, Max, Man,
I know you know these people want us to fight,
man and do all this extra stuff. Man, but I
love the way you played and I love the way
you compete again, man, because a lot of these guys
don't do that with me. Man, But man, keep doing
what you're doing. You're a good ball. I respected that
(21:54):
for that.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Man.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
He used to give me that.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That's big hold on you and Michael. This is a differ.
I gotta reset this. So let me set this date. Yeah,
this is a completely different So you and Michael darn
there go to blows knows and nose elbow. But he
comes to you later and says, keep doing it, Max,
I love it.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, that's what these people want us to do. They
want to see me and you fight. And I was like, yeah, man,
you know, we just compete, Man, I just compete like that.
He say, Nah, Max, I like what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Man. I mean, nobody don't do me like that. Man.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
You you keep doing what you're doing. Man, I love
what you're doing. Man, keep competing like that. Man, that's
that's big time. And I was like, man, I appreciate
that means a lot coming from you with my brother,
but nah, we always talk.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Man. He's a great.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Competitive man's and I can see him as a friend
too when I see him, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
So yeah, I respect to Mike. Man.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Mike, he just I mean, that's just the way he played,
and that's why he competed. And a lot of people didn't.
You know, a lot of people love him. A lot
of people didn't, you know, because they always won. That's
why it because you know, you want underdogs to be
the best team.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
So that's why a lot of people didn't like him.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Absolutely absolutely shout out, shout out MJ.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Man.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I love to hear because of my Mike. I feel
like a lot of people don't know the NBA was
a fraternity back then. And like you said, the way
we grew up or the way you grew up, you
literally will go to blows on the court in the
past of the court. You know it was done.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, after the game, you'll see somebody. You'll walk right
past it. Dude, just about to go and blows with
a right man.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You all right, my brother? Okay, man, laughing back the boy,
you better stop.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Okay, you better stop too, and then get on to
the bus and go over where you're going.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It's just okay, it's over with. Yeah, it's no proud.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Listen, make sure you hang around. Man, we're gonna hear
about a magical moment in history. Houston rockets history coming
up next with coach Matt Max. All right, Verne, we
(24:01):
got to have some fun now, man. I think this
is my favorite segment of the show. It's the NBA
Rookie Life Film Room with Ryan Hollins and I want
to break down a couple of clips. I want to
see where your heart is at and I want you
to put on your coach's hat your coaches had and
I want you to bring I need the Vernon Maxwell
stylet or need I need, but we got Verned. I
need Mad maxon now, okay, I need Mad Max. So
(24:25):
first clip we're gonna get to. Let's go Jalen Green.
Jalen Green and his rookie year hit the biggest shot
of his career over Anthony Davis. And you played the position.
You know you were one of the you know, one
of the best two guards in Houston history. You know
you the respect is is league wide, brother, So you
got to break down this clip here from Jalen Green.
(24:47):
This was the biggest shot his rookie year of his career.
You got lebron A d you in in LA. So
what happens?
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Man?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Put on your put on coach. I need Mad Max,
Like I said, I need Mad Max's coaching hat. All right, Now,
what do you sing in this clip? What the Rockets are doing?
They gotta do it quickly? Greed greed from the outside.
Speaker 8 (25:10):
His first baskets of the second half are two giganic
threes that one out of the rafters and it's a
one point game that was special.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
That was special.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Well what I see is so kp J bringing it
down and and you know the NBA is about pick
and rolls and got it.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Got a pick and roll with my guy.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
Well what really what they what they did was they
were looking for the mitch Man and they got it
with a d when KPJ gave it off to my command,
Jalen Green. And all Jalen Green did was made the
big guy, just put him in the blend that made
him dance and then and then hit him with the
step that's his that's his pattern shot.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
That little step back three right here, What do you do?
Speaker 4 (25:58):
That's his pattern shot when he liked to do it
going left, and that's what he did. He went to
his patent Spoty got to his spot and knocked it down.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Big shot for the young fella.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
What's that? You were a guy who hit these clutch shots?
What does this say that he's willing to want the
ball in this situation? And what was going through his head?
In your head when you were in some of these moments,
knowing the game was on the line.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Well, you know it's I mean, either I'm gonna make
it or miss it, but I ain't gonna be afraid
to take it, and I'm gonna take it with confidence.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
And that's what he did. That's all. He's just. You know,
you can't be ra afraid afraid of that moment.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
I don't care what you say about me if I
missed that shot, but I know I'm gonna get a
lot of accolades if I make it. And that's a
big time shot at that moment. Man, I mean for
that young kid, at that moment, I was big. I think,
like you said, his first a second game in LA
that was real big. And he went to his pad move.
That's his pad move right there between the legs, Crowl
Sober stepped back to the left.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Bam.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
There it is all I've arned that. Now we gotta
acknowledge this to take me intaid of mind. You know
he doing a bit, he talking his talk afterwards. You know,
why what does that have to play? What's that meaning?
What is that going in? Jalen another skinny guy, you know,
probably outweighing his matchups, but he ain't scared either. What
do you see from Jalen? And why is the talk important?
(27:12):
Why talk in this moment. Why does this get certain
guys going?
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Because you know, why do he put that big old
guy on me? I'm gonna make him dance. Yes, he
put the put him in the two step, did the
two step with it. I'm gonna make him. He's two
stepp to me. But Jaymon Green did what he's supposed
to do. Man, I mean, that's his pad move and
he got talk at the end. He had to get
that up because now it's a game. Now it's a game.
(27:38):
I mean it's eight point two seconds left for still,
I mean, foul them. You know, they go down and
make two, then you've got a chance to come back
and make a three.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So it's a game now.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, what do you see when you watch Jalen Green?
You know you played the same position in Houston? What
do you see? And if you had I'm sure you
have probably you know, I guess what words would you
have for him? Or have you had for jail and
speaking to him or you know, shotting him out because
he he got to understand what it is. You know.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I love what he's doing. I love what he's becoming.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I mean you could tell the kid works hard on
his craft, works hard on his game, works hard on
his jump shot, he competes everything. I mean, I love
everything about that kid. Man, he's gonna be all He's
an all star. He's gonna be an all Star. He just
got to keep, you know, stay like he is, stay humble,
and just keep working at this thing man like he's doing. Man,
(28:29):
And I tell him all the time, Man, I admire
what he's doing. I mean, he's a he's a great kid.
I mean, a good young kid. I mean, so, I mean,
just just keep doing what build every year every year,
like every summer, he's add something to your game, add
something different to your game, because you know, everybody know
what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now. You know this year, but next year, you got
to add something different. You know.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's that And that's what I try to do every year.
And that's what I try to tell his young guys.
But I know he will. But I just I love
that kid the way he plays his way, compete, and
he's not afraid of the moment, the big moment.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Those are huge words coming from you because you talked
to talk and you walked that walk and there was
also another young shooting guard who you had a chance
to actually mentor you didn't get a bunch of time
with them. But we want to go back. We were
looking at the future in Jalen Ringer Green. Let's go
back to the past, Alan Iverson, we wanted we want
to check out some clips from AI and I want
(29:25):
you to put on. I need mad Max. Coach Mad Max.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Now, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Talk to me about a young Alan Iverson. Man, what
did you see from him? What's that relationship like with AI?
And you know how good was he?
Speaker 10 (29:38):
Man?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
You spent time with him? What's that relationship like? And
the things that you would say to him.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Man's mindset was so crazy, man, I mean, and his
stature was so crazy too. I mean he had longest,
he got long extremities, he got long arm, long legs,
and its torso as short as hell. It just looked crazy,
it looks. But he's just the most athletic, I mean,
(30:04):
the most competitive person. I mean and in and everything
you do. Man, this man, I mean just I mean
throwing quarters in the corner, man. This man. He want
to win everything.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Man.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So it's just his competitiveness. Man.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And then its size, man, I mean there's size to
be able to take you know that man, so small man.
That man probably wore about one hundred and seventy pounds,
hundred and sixty five pounds. And to take that beaten
night in and night out. Man, that man, he wasn't
just no jump shooting guy. Now he was you know,
he don't want to shoot threes. He really wasn't a
three point shooter like that. Wow, everything was inside that
(30:41):
three point line. He was getting to that cup. Man
in the mid range. Man, that's what he wanted. Look
at the cliffs right now, I mean, you don't see
no threes. All this inside the paint.
Speaker 9 (30:51):
And in Philadelphia tries to take the lead right back
here seventy nine, seventy nine, let's play a ball game, but.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Home.
Speaker 8 (31:01):
Did you see the youngster sky and the punting.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
On the base lot?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I mean so, I mean that's what I know about him.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Man. The competitiveness man, and he just everything. He compete
against everything. And the crossover was crazy. The will to win,
the heart to win, just just don't want to lose,
just love to play the game.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Vernie, is there a story or a moment where you
realized Alan Iverson was different? Did you look at him
and see, you know, were you sizing them up. Did
you grab him into mentorn first or was there that
that first moment where you go, hey, he different, he
a little too fast for me, you know, m you
know he's.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
At the guard that moment in practice. You know from
me and Hary McKee, you used to have to take
turns guardge. You know he was talking about he didn't
want to practice. That who he comes to practice and
bust your ay. I mean he.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Competed, the competed in practice like you do in the games.
Speaker 5 (31:53):
Man.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
It's crazy, man, you be thinking this man, go out
and hang out the four five in the morning, man,
and come that gym at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Because he loved to compete, man like that. That's what
he's just.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
He's just a When he playing basketball, he just feels
like he's the best player on the floor. I don't
care who's out there, Michael Jordan. He just felt like
he's the best player on the floor.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I don't care. That's why he felt.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Vern Ai also talked about you going to back for him,
you having his back, and vern we know that's the
type of guy you've always been, but he was touched
by that. Why did you do that? Why did you
feel compelled at that point in your career to say,
I gotta make sure he not.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Touched a lot of teams.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Just try to beat him up, you know, and just
you know, and get physical with him and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I used to tell him, now you do that again,
now do it again.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I'm man, You're gonna go to the locker room cause
I'm swinging on you, and he gonna pay my fine.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Hold On, who is this with vern?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
Hold On?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Slow down?
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Give me this story?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Who put hands on Ai?
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Well, everybody used to try to do it to him.
I used to tell him to man, do it again.
If you do it again. Now I'm gonna go and
swing on and we're gonna go to the locker room.
It's gonna continue back there in the locker room because
I don't know how to cut this dof.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
So you used to tell another player, multiple players, we're
gonna get into it.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I'm gonna follow you. Yeah, I'm gone.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Then, you know, ain't nobody back to the game still
going and security guard be back there. But I'm gonna
get in there and I don't care how bad it get.
He gonna pay the fine. So that's why I just
tell him because he was.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I mean that was my man. Man.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
We got so close off the court, man, And I
mean I knew everybody think about him, Man, his family
and everybody, allse guys.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Man and man, we were so close. Man, it's like
my little brother, man.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And that's a blessing.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And I think you know, the NBA's a fraternity. And
when you had those relationships, and you know, you guys
were very similar and undersized two guards that you I'm
sure you hadn't the finity towards him and try to
give him all the game that you maybe didn't have,
you know, right.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
He was a student of the game. He loved the game. Man.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
He liked to talk basketball. He could talk basketball all
day long. That's all he does. Talk about basketball like
he still do it today. Man, he's still doing today.
But he loves stephen A. He loves breaking down in
the game. He loves Kobe, he loves Mike. You know,
you can't talk nothing about them three guys right there.
(34:17):
He goes crazy. Oh you talk about Steven A, Michael
Jordan and Kobe, he gonna go crazy on. Oh man,
it's a conversation. This is debate all day, yes, man.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Alright, bird. Now, now we gotta go. We spoke at
Ai and how he did his thing. Yeah, you made history,
my good brother. One game. And I'm not just talking
about the championships. I gotta talk about that thirty Listen.
I saw Klay Thompson do it against when I was
in Sacramento. He jumped at the thirty five ball whatever
in one quarter. But you also did it.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
We gotta run one of these clips, and I need you.
I need you to walk me through this. A fifty
one piece Okay, Maxwell with the rebound it in for
the two.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
That's what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Get a little closer in him. Yeah, I'm simple. Short, Wait, Bill,
that wasn't too simple. Not many guards can hang in
the air for that.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Maxwell on the fly, lasi Olwi's foul and he'll shoot two.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Maxwell takes it in for two.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
More.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Buck Johnson popping outside looking down and Maxwell puts up
a three pointer. Maxwell with a great move out front
jump shot for two.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Not an easy jumper.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
He oh, look at Maxwell takes it in, puts it up.
He'll go back to the free throw line. Eighty five
seventy nine. There's Maxwell on the run again. Maxwell puts
it up and then another three point opportunity for Vernon Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I cannot believe it. He's so red hot.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Don't touch you, Valentine with a three pointer and sleep
he gets the rebound. There he goes Maxwell Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
They love it in the summit. Time out Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Listen to this crowd, appreciate the job Vernon Maxwell has
done forty six points for Maxwell, and I just and
I steal, I steal by Vernon.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
He lays it up, It goes in and he's found
unfound lavable. Just give it to Maxwell. Everybody's outing.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
He's gonna go for fifty points, twenty eight points in
this quarter. George Gervin, if you're interested, holds the NBA
record for the most points in a quarter thirty three,
going where it come, fifty one points and thirty points
in the fourth quarter, he outscored Cleveland thirty to twenty six.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All on his own. Were you in one of those zones?
Would you did somebody say something to you to hold
the man? Did you get out of the slump? Would
you rolling? Let's watch this, This this is history.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Ain't too many people had this conversation. Just let me be,
let us be a fly. On the wall. Man, how
did this happy burn?
Speaker 4 (37:10):
But at this point in time right here, I just
got gone, you know, early in the game at first,
and you know in next game right here, I really
didn't feel good going in this game, you know, because Ron,
you know how it be some games you just feel
like your legs are dead and you just say you
just ain't in it. And then I got to going.
And then the game started and I started just throwing,
and I'll say, well man, and then I started getting
(37:32):
to the line. I started going to the free throw line,
and I was said, damn, they just keep fouling.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
And then I got going. I got going on the
free throw line. See.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
And then the guy started looking for me. When they
said Brian is going look at it. I was thought
about that that bammed. I said, okay, damn, it might
be my night right now. I said, okay, I gotta
get that. Okay, now now did not sleeping floor. He's
looking for me. I'm getting it going, yes see, I'm
mixing it up inside outside now That's what I said. Okay,
(38:01):
Now don changey telling me come on now, keep going Max.
That's what used to always tell me. And then when
I started making this crazy stuff like this right here.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
And I knew.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I said, it's gonna be a long night for these
guys out here, Craig Eloyd and them. I'm gonna do
Craig like old Michael Jordan did it. I'm gonna give
him old fifty point piece out here. Yeah, him and
Donnie Valentine, all them guys. Man, I had to yeah,
but I got to go. And when I get to
going like that, man free throws falling and looking at it,
they running plays for me. Look at oh Lord, oh lord,
(38:32):
Oh don't don't put it on Brad like that. Put
the shoulder in the Brad. Look at Brad. Want to
help me up?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Brad? What'd you help me up for?
Speaker 4 (38:38):
I'm trying to give you a fit the ball piece, Baby,
I'm in the kitchen cooking up that thing right now.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
I'm killing Hey, bro, were you were you trash talking
tom or were.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
You just like you know?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
I was?
Speaker 4 (38:50):
You know, come on, look at a sleep they just leave.
It was just throwing it to me. That's when I
knew it was me. I said, Okay, I know I
had that in me. Stop nah, man, But I knew it.
My nice sleeping floor did a great job, finding me, man,
keep me in and and he ran everything for me
that night, sleeping floor. Dream wasn't playing that night too, now,
(39:11):
not alone now Dream look at dream over that and
I poked with our shirt. That's the only reason I
was able to do it, because Dream wasn't out there
that night.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
That's my dream. I love your dream.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I couldn't have did it.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
With you out there. I couldn't have got all them
points without you. With you out there, Dream called we
was going to dream.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
What were your teammates saying to you at some point?
Was it let him cook? Or was it keep going,
keep going? You're talking about coach Cheney.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Everybody was like, man, go, man, keep going. Man, you
got farty, you got party. Man, wait you wait, get
the fifty. Everybody was just everybody was so excited for
me on the bench man. And when I robbed him
around here, Gerald Patio, I said, oh yeah, giving them cookies.
And Jack Brad just like he was trying to help
me get the fifty.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
He was he wasn't even fouling me hard.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
He was just like he was just like touch following me,
and I was like looking forward to knock me over
there by the bench somewhere yeh yeah. And then when
they scored, I was like, okay, get here. They was
trying to give me the ball. Look, get here, get here,
get here. That's a close game too.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
So it was just my night.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
You know today, if you blow up, you're gonna be
on Sports Center, You're gonna be on the phone or
you know, how did the word travel of this game?
What were people calling you the next day? How did
things go after this?
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Like eleven thirty, twelve o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock, three o'clock.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Oh mat, whoa boy?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
You went off to night boa You killed them? Oh
lord boy, that's what And that's how everybody find that.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Back in the day, you know, we ain't have social
media back then, Dream was happy for me.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
That poke shirt.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I'll look at it, and you know what, man, very
when we first got on, that's when I see you guys,
you Kenny Dreamed. You guys look so good, Mario like,
you guys look so good. It is rare, man, But
I think it says a lot about the hard work
that you guys put in. Even Rudy Coach looked great, like, yeah, look,
(40:59):
you guys put in and y'all still look good today. Yeah,
I think that says a lot.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Now we got to take another trip down memory lane. Man,
walk me through game seven. Vern? Oh Man, were you
guys nervous? Did you know you were going to win
the game? Was it trash talk? Did you have to
put on for the city? Talk to me about this
game seven? Because you showed out, brother, you dropped twenty
one full rebounds defended. I mean, this is at the crib,
(41:28):
the first chick, that first chip man. Talk to me
about this game seven. Take me into the locker room.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
What was happening here.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
First of all? Before the game got it was?
Speaker 4 (41:39):
I mean, like man, I tell people all the time, Man,
when you when I walked in that arena, Man, I
never walked in nothing like that ever in my life before. Man,
you can feel the tension in that arena. I've never
felt that. It was so the tension was so thick
you can cut it with a knife. I mean, that
was pressure, and I've never felt the pressure. I've never been.
I ain't scared of nothing. But we were so evenly matched.
(42:01):
But we just knew we had to go get one
of those games in New York. Man to get back
to Houston, man, And once we got it back to Houston,
we knew we were gonna be all right because we
hadn't lost on our home court, man in the playoffs.
But New York came and they beat us, and now
Phoenix beat us too a couple of times.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
But we went out there and did I think with
Phoenix two. But this was an evening, massed series. Man,
we knew it was gonna be tough, man.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
I mean, John Starks, Vernon, Max Well, Derrick Harper, Kenneth Smell,
Robert Ry, Charles Smill, Charles Oakley, our oldest story, Patrick
Ewing a lodge one, man, I mean, what.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Else could you did coming off the bench?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Mario Sam they got Greg Anthony, they got you know,
Hubert Davis, I mean just evenly matched.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Gag serious man. So we knew it was gonna be tough.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
But I know, once we got back, we got that
one game up there, I knew we were gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Once that got back to the house, we were gonna
win two games in a row.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now, vern did you feel like going into the game
you needed to step up and do a little more?
Did you just trust that, hey, if the shots come
my way. I'm gonna knock them down. What was your
mindset coming into this game or was there anything that like,
how did y'all talk in in the locker room? Was
it like, hey burn, bring it?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
It really wasn't a lot of talking going on.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
Ryan.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
You could tell everybody got there trying to get focused
and what they had to do at hand, you know,
going down into the game, you know, and I kind
of felt like they were out playing us, our guards,
Me and Kenny, you know, New York, next John and
and Derrick Harper. I felt like they were out playing us,
and I kind of felt like, you know, in order
for us to have success in this game seven, I
(43:36):
had to do more. And that's what I had in
my mindset going into Game seven. Vernon Mixwell got to
do better than what he been doing on the offensive end,
and I already played I'm gonna play defense. I think
John went to for eighteen or something like that. So
I had to I had to clamps on him. But
I had to just go out and I had to
do more on the offensive end to help Dream out
(43:58):
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
And that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Now, you hit the go ahead bucket, man, You hit arguably,
you know, one of the biggest shots in not just
Houston NBA history. What was the play that I was run?
Did you know the ball? Because you can't you let
it go. Walk me through the moment in this game
and walk me through this play. Let me know what
we don't know about this matchup to feel the moment
(44:21):
was Dream cooking? You know, was the game tight? You
know where was your mindset?
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Well?
Speaker 4 (44:26):
First, right there you see Dream hit it with the
dream shape, bye bye bye, with the little hook over
the shoulder.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
And then we knew they were gonna come and help.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And John he just he was just he just went
down a little too fun out of that paint.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
You can't touch the paint.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
When a man can shoot that trigger so quick, you
can't touch down in the paint like that. With me,
I know, I'm looking like I ain't ready, but I'm
just wiping my fingers off where I can get ready
to roast this ass. And and now I love John
Starts to death.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
But Dream made a great pass.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
You can look at it when he's spanning the same
movie just hit him with. And then he jumped up
in there and found me coming down. And John Stock
had too much. He was too far into paint, and
I was ready to go right there to see it,
just step back and ready to knock him down too late.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
John Babies shovel the fun talk about talk about dreams passing,
because here's the thing for a big man, he just
throw it to you. He setting you up, he hitting
(45:31):
you right in the bread basket. How good of a
passer was Dreamer? Why was that important?
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Man?
Speaker 4 (45:36):
It's great to have a big compass like that to
find guys like that, and then you don't have to
reach out to the left, reach out to the left, right,
and he's right, and that bread basket right there, that's
just like he's It's like it's like one two three.
I mean, that's the pass was everything. If I had
to reach out to the right a little bit, or
reach out to the left, or reach down to try
(45:57):
to get that ball, I probably wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Have made it.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
But the past was perfect, man, I mean perfect pass.
Look way he hit me at rap in my hands
right there, right in the bread basket. Damn never knew
when you hit that shot.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Did you know it was over? Did you know?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (46:12):
I know.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
That's why I just dumped on the floor and everybody
then come out there. I knew it was a rap
there and we done went up by four five points.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I think it was over there.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Did you how about the emotions? Man? I know, listen, man,
you've been through so much in your life. Did it
hit you then or was it more after the game
of like yo, like this is real? Ron?
Speaker 4 (46:31):
You know, it really didn't hit me until we had
the parade though. I mean it took that loan because
it was so many emotions going on. Because I never
ever thought I ever been in a position ever win
an NBA championship ring man, and then for me to
be able to do it, and then to ring to Houston,
the first championship ever in the city, in any sport,
in sport, that's big. I mean, that's that's memorable for life,
(46:55):
you know. So, and that's why I was glad. I
was meant we were able as a team, able to
bring the first championship to Houston.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Delvern Any Sport so vernon baseball.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Six of seven from the line like a seven of.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Eight, twenty one points, rockets again buy six time, running
out all the new y are next, Mark, Here's running
off fall but night jee mighty play mighty four NBA
Champ Air.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Wow. Yeah, well, Vern, I'm so humble man that you
taking the time. I'm privileged to do this. I know
maybe you didn't know going in, but what you meant,
you know, to my career and how many lives did
you touched?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Appreciate that?
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Listen, Vern selfishly, a lot of us live through you.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Vern.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
That's why we love you. By the week.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
You appreciate that you've been able to say some of
the things you know we can't say.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
You know what I'm saying a lot. I don't think
you might want to real bad, but we were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, I like what Verne just said. I want to
say that. That's right. I appreciate to Ryan so much, Man,
but thanks for having me on man.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
And also, before we get out of here, Vern, it's
very important you blessed us here. The fans want to know,
how can we support you? What are you doing next?
You talked about the pod, you talk about your boys
playing ball. How can we support you, man? Because we
love everything you're doing. That's that's all some port. Whatever
causes you behind, let us know so we can shout
you out.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Okay, now I got my you know my map Styff
podcast you know about through Bravada, which is doing real well.
I mean, had some good shows with Kenny Ai Sam
and looking forward to doing you Mario and some other
future teammates and some of the future guys and some
of the guys that's playing on the team now. So
but nah, man, that's it. And my son's at Georgia Tech.
(48:54):
I got him in the portal. That's part of the
college basketball life.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Now.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
You gotta probably gonna touch the portal and we're in
that now, trying to find a place for him. My
young man's playing with the b Mans that North Mack.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
He's had a great year.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
We went to the final Flourida State. We lost, but
everything's going well. Man, I'm a blessed man. Man, I
can't complain about anything.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Man, Well, I can't tell you aesthetic. We are to
have had you on here. You are a pillar of
NBA history.
Speaker 5 (49:21):
Man.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Thanks, we're right with you when you represent so much
of us. Man. So I can't thank you, no, brother,
And we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Yeah, I talk to you soon, no doubt.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Wow, this was absolutely amazing talking with Vernon Maxwell. I
love what he's done for the game of basketball. Love
the way that he gets back. Make sure you, guys,
reach out and support This was a really cool episode
from one of the most down to earth, humble, organic
human beings that I've ever known or been a fan of.
But even more important, if you like what you're hearing,
(49:53):
you appreciate it. Make sure you spread the word. You like,
you follow, subscribe, you know, whatever it may be. We
appreciate you. Guys, love you. We can't do without you.
See you next week. M
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