Antawn Jamison on Carolina Memories, the NCAA Tourney and Dropping 51 on the Lakers

Vince talks with his close friend and fellow Tar Heel legend Antawn Jamison about their favorite memories as suite-mates at North Carolina on and off the court. They also get into the current NCAA Tournament, what-if there was NIL money for them back in the 90's and Antawn scoring 50 points in back-to-back NBA games.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
We know.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the
VC Show's show season two. Yeah, we back again. Got
the world tune in there for show. So go with
your little friends. My heart got me on the squat slam,
dump the whistle blow. Then kick your feet up so

(00:25):
you can listen. It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show.
It's the VC Show.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
It's the v C.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Two's okay, okay, welcome to the VC Show. I'm your host,
Vince Carter. I'm so excited Season two is finally here.
Thanks to iHeart. This season we have a new theme
song shout out to KP of the colleagues, and a
new look, but still the same old good conversation.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So kick your feet up. The VC Show starts now,
all right, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
To kick off this new season, I had to go
deep into my bag and go get my guy, my dog,
a guy I will be forever linked to for a
lot of reasons.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
He was mister Basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
North Carolina nineteen ninety five McDonald's All American, three times
first team All ACC selection.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Y'all just sit kick your feet up. Like I said,
it's gonna take a while.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
ACC Player of the Year in nineteen ninety eight, CONSISTUS
First Team All American in ninety eight, National College Player
in ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
So that tells you everything he did in ninety eight
was killing.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Has number thirty teen retired in the Rafters fourth pick
in the nineteen ninety eight draft by the Raptors, And
if you confuse, yes, he was traded.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
With me to go to State.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Two time NBA All Star two thousand and five, two
thousand and eight, NBA six Man of the Year in
two thousand and four, and currently director of pro personnel
for the Wizards. Providence High School's own at one jameson,
what's up? I guy, Hey man, I'm not surprised at
all with the introduction, hearing the intro.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
So all those all those days being your.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Sweet mate and all that music just waking me up
is paid off. You know I was practicing. I was
practicing thirty years later. Oh man, you so everything's good
with you?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Man? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Mars Madness is here, brother, March Madness is here. Obviously,
I think we both are rooting for the same team.
You know, you know you have the Carolina shirt on.
But what if you enjoyed watching college basketball this year
so far? Because I know you you watch a pretty
good when I watched the Carolina games, and they usually
scan right I mean paying right by the bench. I

(02:53):
always see you right back there, so you know, you
get a text from me like I'm jealous. Yeah, it's
been good man, you know how, And you don't go
You don't go back as often as I do. But
every time I make that drive, man, it just goes
back down memory lane to freshman year and those three
years at Carolina. But you know, just not Carolina basketball,

(03:16):
but just college basketball in general. It has been fun
to watch. I mean, you've seen guys put up crazy numbers.
You can see how physical the game is. You know,
it's just fun to just sit there and watch the
game at home. But going back to Carolina and some
of these other colleges to like to get the atmosphere.

(03:36):
I was just at the Big Pen Tournament, Big twelve Tournament, man,
and it's this unbelievable time to be a fan of
college basketball and seen watching them on both sides. You know,
but I got to throw that out there. To be honest,
I'd rather watch the women play. There's some time to
me because the women are getting it done. They don't
play around, and I'm glad they get in their flowers,

(04:00):
because just because you're a woman, you can't show the
same emotions or you can't be as intense as they.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Have the same talented as us, and we're seeing otherwise.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I mean, they're more skilled, and I mean just just
the way they play the game of basketball.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Man, it's been fun to watch.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
So just in general, men's women's college basketball has been
a fun year and I've been I've been enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
So it's been fun.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
And you could tell that women's college basketball is an
all time high because of you know, if you look
at the money list, and I say, I say this
conversation all the time, but this is how you kind
of put it in perspective, in my opinion. You look
at the money list of you know, n I l earnings,
You're not gonna see all just men's players. You're gonna

(04:44):
see a laundry list of female players up there who's earning.
And that just says a lot about what, you know,
the popularity obviously, how good they are as players, and
how important they are to the game. So I mean,
shout out to all of them, all of them, you know,
I mean they have a following, and these companies recognizes
that back in the days, if you went to a

(05:06):
college basketball game, you might have half of the lower
bowl field. Now, if you go to a college basketball game, Vince,
I mean, I'm talking about twenty thousand years sold out.
Watch these women play, and these companies realizes that they
have a great following. They have all these young ladies
who want to be like their idols and things of
that nature. And you see what these women are pulling

(05:28):
up shooting these threes and just like the transition, Duna,
what are we talking about? That catches my eye already.
I'm like, what the athlete athletes?

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Now?

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, So it's been fun to watch. So I'm glad
they get their flowers once again. And you know I
mentioned NIL and I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this at you.
And I know you get asked often. I get asked
about it often. Could you imagine? Could you imagine what
NIL would be for you? Antoine Jamison from nineteen ninety

(06:01):
five to nineteen ninety eight, And I before you say anything,
I get asked a question and I know where I
was as a player and I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
But for you, I listed I would have been below
you a little bit.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
So yeah, yeah, right after you you want to go
back and mention this list because what you did. I mean,
obviously three times first team all a seed selection for
nineteen ninety eight alone, just junior alone, like leading up
to it, obviously that was you know, obviously the wars
come at the end of the year. Leading up to it,
obviously there was the hype in the buzz of the

(06:36):
potential of what you I mean, come on, man, I
just can't imagine what I mean. And just locally, I
think the appeal that we as a team had, particularly
us being around for three years, so it's not like, oh,
the new freshman kids coming in, like we were there
for three years so they were familiar with us. So
I feel like after our freshman year.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Man.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
About events as I go to these games or just
I'm still in the state of North Carolina, and I
hear so many stories about for want and lets me
know how old I am.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
But man, when I was a kid, man you now,
I used to watch go watch you vinc.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
And Shamon and Ed Cooder and he's there like in
the thirties and stuff. But it's amazing the influence that
we had not on ourselves, but of course all these
other colleges as well. But it's about time because the
NCAA was making so much money off of the student athlete.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
And think about my parents.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Your parents were fortunate enough to be able to afford traveling,
to be able to go to San Antonio for the
Final four, but you have some players who might not
have that privilege. And I think with NLLL it helps
out families who are in need, but also it gives
an opportunity to go and support the child, whether it's

(08:00):
women or men or whatever sport.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
But it was about time.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Of course they should have had some kind of parameters
on how to navigate through all this. It's been kind
of mess a little bit, but uh to hear that
the money that some of these athletes are receiving, it's life.
Think it was about time. It's life taking. And I
think it's good that these student athletes get the opportunity

(08:28):
to make money off their name, image and likeness and
be able to support their family because there are a
lot of athletes out there who needed that.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
And you know, long go do you know me?

Speaker 2 (08:38):
I'm always for people getting that bad at getting what
they deserve, and all these athletes deserve wherever they'll get.
And I'll say it once and I'll say it again,
and every time I have this conversation, I feel the
need to say this. I just hope the universities that
are providing and putting these young student athletes in the
position to earn this money, you also teach them how

(09:00):
to save their money, teach to the importance of the
tax bracket that they're in now, because they weren't in
a tax bracket prior to this. We weren't in a
tax bracket in college. These kids are now in a
tax bracket. They have to understand how to save and pay,
you know, Uncle Sam, accordingly I mean, and I think
that's important, but it prepares them for life, because I
want these kids to understand and then the other side

(09:22):
of that toe And I know when I say that
you will agree to this. I'm pretty sure while these
kids are making this money, I want you the athlete
to still stay hungry and still want to be the
best player that you can possibly be.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I will say this every time.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I don't care who I'm on a podcast with, whoever,
I have a conversation with you will hear me say
this every time I want that athlete. Yes, go earn
your money, but still have that hunger and desire to
be the best player you can be. Because for those
who want to go to the NBA, this is a
position you're going to be in. Now you're going to
earn millions of dollars, still have to perform. You still

(10:02):
got to be the best player. So I just hope
we uh you know, we helped them obviously just learn
how to save their money and do the right thing. Well,
I think to piggyback off that there has to be
a test at the university. Think about how we're prepared
you and I was, and just about every player that
came through Carolina basketball.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
No, that's the fact.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
When we got to the NBA event, Remember the media
training we had on how to talk to the media.
We dressed a certain way. Uh, we carried ourselves, we
practiced a certain way. So the that was the easy
adjustment for myself is like Carolina was already ran like
a professional organization. Of course, the game was different, and

(10:48):
that's where I had the adversary I had to fight through.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
But the university prepared us.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
For not only basketball, but for life and on which
you A lot of these kids are getting this money
and don't understand that they have to pay taxes. They
don't understand about savings and things of that nature. And
imagine when we got drafted three years of college, once
we got paid at first paid tech, how many people,

(11:16):
how many voters was coming our way?

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Your mom unbelievable job. My parents are an unbelievable job as.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Far as creating that bubble and making sure we weren't
getting taken advantage of.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
But it's so difficult.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Then's when you're like a seventeen eighteen year old kid
and you making that money and a lot of people
feel like it's a lot of people from outside the
family that take advantage of these kids. But a lot
of the situations internally, hey, you know, remember I was
back there be better for you, nephew. So it's those
scenarios that you know, these kids really have to take

(11:50):
in consideration because that's how they're getting taken advantage of.
As far as receiving all these benefits at such such
a young age.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, I mean that's well said.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
You're one hundred percent right, and I think every NBA
player can also say this. And something about it saying no,
it never put me in a predicament, but it puts
you in a in a predicament or tough situation where
you kind of have to make that decisions like, yeah,
you did look out for me, and I'm gonna do
my best. But it's not like I'm going to put
you on salary because you know, not like I'm gonna
give you money because you know. And it's just it's
one of those tough situations that I encourage every young

(12:25):
athlete who's making any kind of money of some sort too.
If you can nip it in the butt, handle the
situation early, and then you know, later on it becomes
easier because it's already understood.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, the problem.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
The problem is and I can recall how many family
members I fell out with and then talk to how
many friends who I thought were my friends, and once
no was said, that's when you realize who was really
there for you and want to be part of your success.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
But you have to.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Come to, you know, a standpoint where it's about you
in a situation where even in college, you can create
generations wealth. So for me, when I still having kids
and like being able to buy my mom and Daddy's
house and they don't have to work anymore.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
I was like, I like this, but I can't stop here.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I want to be to the point where I don't
want my kids kids to ever work again. But it's tough,
and it's like I said, we had that support system
that helped us navigate through all of a sudden. You
got all this money, all of a sudden, you are
in Canada, you're from Florida.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
You having this series of winters like that.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Hey, my first day landing in Toronto, it was a blizzard.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Like once I got there, I'm looking outside.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
I'm calling them, like, hey, so poetry for one for two,
we're supposed to show up looking like this outside. He's like,
you bet, coach to say you better be there on time.
I mean, we had the support system, but it's just
it's unfortunately a lot of these individuals don't have that.
And I just prayed that the universities can't help navigate

(14:02):
through that. But it's tough these days.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Man.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
With that being said, do you think, after all the
success you had in ninety eight, here comes ninety nine
and nil is there would you have considered to stay
be if okay, Caleb Williams. I heard cleared somewhere from
eight to ten million. If that was a number that

(14:24):
was around for you for nil your senior year, would
you consider staying or would you go? I mean, and
I think I know the answer this, but I'm just
to putting it out there because I know our answer
for me first, if it helped, it would depend on
obviously situation.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, someone like you.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
We were drafted top five, so we kind of knew
what our money was going to look like, as opposed
to maybe we don't get drafted maybe later in the
first round, second round pick. Now that nil, you know,
obviously depending on what it looks like changes your scenario.
So that for me to answer the question, I think

(15:01):
it would depend on where I'm going in the draft. Yeah,
if we were still being picked fourth and fifth. We
both had the same goals, and that goal was to play.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
In the NBA.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
That was a dream of mine ever since I was
a kid, and likewise for yourself and to be able
to get that close to our dream, it would have
been tough. But also a major part of me leaving
was I wanted to be there and help support my
mom and dad and be in a situation where I
could pay for my sister and my younger brother's college tuition.

(15:36):
If my mom and dad didn't want to work, they
didn't have to. But Vince Man, we had that was
like before I had kids. That was the best three
years of my life. That's a fact between you the mom.
Mac Addi ed tears like lives like. The people I've
been in college are still like my day one.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
And I tell people chat like our Brew chat every time. Yeah,
I have seventy five misstress, so many people on there. Yeah,
So like, I enjoyed college.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
But to be honest, if that amount of money was
around and I knew I was gonna be a top
five pick, I probably would have still came out. Because
now I take that back because for us, I love
NCAA tournament. I mean, it brings back so many great
memories but also business like. But to know we were
so close, we didn't finish the job. God, but once again,

(16:32):
that junior year, it was supposed to be a done deal.
So let's say we do come back our single year.
Don't do it an injury or something like that happening.
It's never no, So you know, just thinking about it,
I probably would have left after my junior year, knowing
not only being able to support my family, but the
most important part, that was my dream ever since I
was a kid, smelling be able to compete against Michael

(16:55):
and Scottie Pippot and those guys. And you know, my
first game is against Charles Barkley and I'm just like
that was the dream. So I probably would have left,
but like I tell you, man, that was the best
three years.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
You know me and I still remember, Man, we get there.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
We got there early, Automolai, just coming in from Germany
and it's times were just sitting in the hallway nobody
there are sitting on the steps looking outside, like and like, man,
all right, this is this is what wouldnna be. Man, Like,
you know what's good? What lured you into Carolina so soon?

(17:40):
Because you committed as a sophomore. Man, I committed after
my sophomore going to my junior year, I committed.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
What what did it for you? Particularly that soon? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:50):
The biggest thing is that I knew I wanted to
stay close to home. So being from Charlotte, Uh, the
ACC the University of South Carolina was one and then
also the furthest. I probably wanted to go was probably
Georgia Tech. But I wanted to take close to home
because see originally moving let me tell you why he
looked at Georgia Tech. I'm gonna throw it out there.

(18:10):
This is my man, I know, freak nick is still
going on at the time. That would be you, my brother.
People don't realized that was being like way when you
came in there, mister bean Maiden. I mean we go
to these parties, I'm like, who is And it's like
you turned into a whole different person, So.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
You would have really mad music is my life brother
for a long time. Yeah, but I wanted to stay
close to home.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Man, before I had I went to University of South
Carolina and saw game and went to n C State.
I went to Duke, but I just knew once I
walked on that campus, Vince Franklin Street, like it just
spoke to me. Once I went to the d D
when you walked into that Dean though, explain it, like, man,
you you can never like every time I go, whether

(18:58):
the summertime or even to a game, Vince walking to
the basketball office, it's just like it's the same feeling.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
I had the same feeling first time.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I went to the University of North Carolina, and I
knew that was where I was supposed to be. And
I'm big on my faith, and things happened for a reason.
But for some reason, he spoke, God spoke to me.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
And like this is it. You knew.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I just knew, So I didn't want to waste anybody
else's time. The biggest thing for my parents was free education.
We don't have to pay for college. And I'm just like,
I'm not taking my mind. So this is the place
I know I want to go to. And that's what's
crazy to me. Like I mean, obviously, you you know,
if anybody knows you, you know, like they do follow

(19:42):
you through that time. Like your sophomore year, you were
a number You were top one, two three, top three
in the country before this guy Kevin Garnett came from
and then Ron Mercer.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I had to work my way up.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
So my sophomore year, I'm still looking all the way
up for you folks. But it's funny because, like you know,
for me, Carolina was not even I mean, obviously it
was obviously it would be a dream, but Carolina didn't
come around till after my junior year. After five Stars,
I played in a five Star All Star game. Tim Thomas,
Steph and Coach Smith came up to be and gut

(20:18):
and yeah. They were like, you know, we're impressed. We
want to you know, we're very interested in you were
beginning to recruiting process and you know who.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Was coming to team me play full coach Forard, Yes,
that was one.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Of the first dare He's like, yeah, yep, He's like,
you might as well come here, like it was. It
was just it was cool people, and you know, so
that's when I kind of got on the radar for Carolina.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Duke had already been.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Around Florida, Florida State, obviously, Kentucky and Kansas. That was
my initial and obviously.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
So what what was it about Carolina for you?

Speaker 2 (20:48):
I mean, being from from Florida, you seemed like the
title myself, you didn't want to go too far away,
and Florida State was an up and coming university and
all of a sudden, how did Carolina get the exploring
a kid?

Speaker 1 (21:00):
What was it for you that.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
So played in the tournament in South Carolina?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Person, that's right, that's when.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
We first met, and you know, I had already had
the visit playing, and clearly you knew, and you came
up to me and you know, introduced. We kind of
have a conversation and you said, I'm gonna be there
and you might as well. You know, when once you
get there and kind of explain it to me, you know,
you just hear like, okay, cool, cool, cool, you know
up here. But I got to see it for myself.

(21:31):
I got to see it for myself and everything you
said walking into that office, meeting everyone from the staff
before even meeting the meeting the coaching staff, and then
obviously going into Coach Smith. You know, you remember, I
don't know if you remember walking to Coach smith office.
He sat at his desk, he pushed the button and
all this stuff, thought closing and TV's coming up. Man,

(21:54):
wait a minute now, I'm not used to this, sir,
And I mean, but just like I say, it just
felt like home. It felt like what I wanted I
was looking for. And you know, obviously, we as athletes,
we're looking at the basketball side, and our family obviously,
my whole family are all in education, so they're looking
at can my son obviously get the best of both worlds,

(22:19):
And that's what Coach Smith cared about obviously, you know
when we start practicing. Everybody who was affiliated with Carolina
probably does that now. But we had to, you know,
know our teacher's name.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
We couldn't. We had to sit in the first three.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Rolls the coach was taking to make sure we was
in class. Yeah, it was yeah, you know, before practice,
we had to remember the word of the day. What
we used to We used to sit there and rack
our brains and remember one little sentence, you know, But
I mean it just it just taught you how to
prepare and taught us what was important. And obviously as
a student athlete sometimes you don't understand until you get older.

(22:56):
But it was ingrained in this and obviously guys before
So it was just how often And it's funny now
and I don't know why I was doing something now.
I catched my I catched myself every once in a while.
The thought of the day, it's like either being implemented
in my everyday life or I remember right there in

(23:20):
terms of the court.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Just yeah, like the thought of the day. Man. And
my dad has a lot.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Of that stuff, and he had my old Carolina bag
with my name mode and stuff like that. It had
like that, that thick of a wad of the old
practice schedule, thought of the days and things of that nature.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
I'm just.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Kept that's impressive. It's crazy that and that's why we
love him so much. Man him and coach Guthrich and
even Coach Millson. I see coach Hannah's all the time
and coach Ford. But they got us at a very
important time of our life. We were leaving home, making
that transition to besic for me.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, you left home.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
They're talking about home, Yeah, and like to be able
to not only prepare us for being the best basketball player,
but preparing us for like life, being the best man,
like just treating people with respect, being humble, like and
you know how it was, Vince, were you on Carolina campus.
Everybody knows who you are and it can you know,

(24:25):
get up there a little bit. What Coach Milcher that
staff did an unbelievable job, you know, telling us like
it's no difference in somebody who's playing soccer or somebody
who's in the band.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And that's the way that bro We had me and
Hammer used to walk around campus. I mean it was
we had Mary Jones walking around in our campus.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
It was great to like see like man like and
so many of us like different personalities, different backgrounds, but
we all came through that that that program and like man,
we think about like what what you were doing, Brittain
Hay what is on TV?

Speaker 1 (25:01):
And you know, so.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Many great guys are coaching now, like I mean, they
do a great job not only you know, preparing us
and messing us for being the best basketball team in
that particular time, but also like preparing us for life.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I see Terrence Duban head coach they coaching and you
basketball and get these guests, you know, and I hear
he knew about their coach, And I'm like, man, you
out here coaching you know, these kids and preparing them
for life.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
And it's just like a great feeling.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
To note that the choice I did make to go
to college was the best choice because and it was
the right one for you, correct, I mean? And it's
a bunch of guys who all felt the same. And
that's that's what's cool cool about it. A. I wanted
to ask you when you mentioned Coach Smith, do you
have a.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
A cool Coach Smith's story?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know? And me asking you this, the first thing
I think of is who was it not?

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Not?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, Charlie mcderry runs Coach Smith over, and Coach Smith
has his role as work and he's already you know,
he's poaitting, calling and telling us what to do with
Charlie runs my man over. Coach Smith fell down. But
he did scratch that watch.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Oh man. That's one of the ones that you know,
I always remember. It's two that really steeks out to me.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's one from the basketball perspective and one just from life.
I can recall, you know, ideas we're in college, we're
coming into practice, and every once in a while it's one,
you know, come in my office.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
I'm like, yeah, I don't know what's wrong.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
And then he would ask me, did you talk to
your mom and dad this week? And I'm like, yep, coach,
I'm in college. I'm not trying to I'm not supposed
to be talking to my mom and dad. And he'll
call me there, we're going to call him after practice.
And he would do that periodically and I'm just like
showing up. Why does he got me talking to my
mom and dad? And as you know, once we left school,
he was still keeping in contact with our parents, and

(27:00):
that was kind of like if you knew Coach Smith,
you knew like family and making sure and taking up
our family is important. And I remember my junior year
and I had some success and like I said, acc
first team and things of that nature. And I remember
we had a game and there's I think we was
like we won about twenty thirty.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
And you know how those film sessions are, I don't
care what you do.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
You remember how because we thought we because I don't know,
used to always have the most plus points and that's
the charges and me.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
It made us want to go out there and like,
you know, I'm tired of this. I'm I'm about to
knock Automotive office.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
So they kind of, like you know, made us realize
just because we scored all these points or you o
sports center with the dunks and stuff, it was the
little things that he appreciated. And I remember just like
it made us take charges, it made us dive on
the floor and things of that nature. But I remember
and then one of those tough film sessions and we
won by twenty or thirty and I got the ball

(28:04):
in the perim and I was up for a three
and I shot it and I missed it and Coach
Smith like, you know, Jameson, is that a good shot?
And I'm like, yeah, I was open. He said you
almost twenty points in the paint. Get in the paint.
Don't be shooting at three. And I'm just like so
it's like, oh okay, let me you know. But it's

(28:24):
like he always had that that that that talent, and
he spoke to you to a point where no matter
how much the set you had, no matter like you know,
what you accomplished, it was always still room for improvement. Ball.
So I'm gonna make you feel and I'm gonna treat
you like everybody else, whether it was you me or
way of Tender or Charlie mcnaery or Linda Linda's he

(28:49):
always did a great job. It's like, no, we are
in this together. No one is above you know, the
university and the basketball program. But those are kind of
like two of the things that I always took out.
I always take a don't family and like, you know what,
you're not gonna be feeling yourself. I'm gonna put you
down just like everybody else. Ask you okay, hey, I
was just about to say story. You remember my freshman year, right,

(29:12):
I get the dump. I got like, I scored back
the back, got the dunk, and I was like I
was trying to HiPE the crowd up, throw my hands up,
and he man took out, called the time out, man
and in front of Everybody's like, we don't do that here,
we don't. He's like, we don't throw our ends up,
asking everybody to cheer for me, cheer for me, that
that's all you're doing. I was just like, h remember

(29:35):
the time I dunk and I did the bow. Hey,
I was sitting at the time my face. I said, oh,
but that's the thing. That's the one thing.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
We talked about this all the time. But it was
teaching me how to be a professor, being your sweet mate.
I mean, we had those moments when you was just
like one of them, I'm doing wrong. But that was
and you hear people stay all the time. It was
only one person that can stop Michael Jordan. That was
Coach Smith. But I think he prepared Mike for the
for what he accomplished. He prepared on yourself with see

(30:06):
Wilder's Jerry sadcaus all these guys, you know, back to
her end jib. Even though it might not been on
the basketball side, but just how to treat people better
and how to like, you know, do the things that
he's doing.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
So I mean it was it was bigger man.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Sometimes we never understood where he was coming from or
like you know, we were just big kids. But it
prepared us for like life just after basketball and more
boy things as well.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Man, I agree with that one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
And that's that was kind of I don't want to
use the word to wake up call, but man, I
learned a lot. It's like, okay, you know, it's like man, man,
he's up brother, Like I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I enjoyed the game.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I was so thankful to be in there, and like
you know, that was my way of like really showing
my appreciation.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
But I understood what he was saying.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Like you said, a lot of the film sessions and
those one on ones in that office, I had a
bunch of those, particularly my freshman year. And yeah, I'm
remember we had those conversations about in between the freshman
and sophomore year, but it was about just the frustrations,
like wanting to play more. Felt like I deserved and
earned the right to play up there, so he's like,
you know, this is an important summer for me.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
So I did just that. And obviously my sophomore year,
do you.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Think going through that adversity, because like I said, I
didn't hit it until I got to the league, but
you really experienced, especially like your freshman and your sophomore year.
Do you think that's why you had that instant success
once your maybe to the next level.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
So yeah, particularly the freshman year.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think my freshman year when it was you know,
I was like when I scored, I felt like I
was doing wrong, like what's going on? And I would
come out the game and I remember the one time
he took me out of the game when I scored
a couple of points and they booed him. Yeah, and
I ain't never heard in my life like y'all boy
and coached me. I am nothing to do with this,
my man, Please don't take it out of me. But

(31:57):
I think that summer made me work harder, just get
get get better, and like okay, I got to fine
tune everything, and I think because of that it helped
our team. It made the game easier for you. And
I say that because you're not gonna just key on
you now and just leave leave us open. You had
to respect what we did at which I think helped

(32:19):
you go to the next level because now you can't.
I mean, obviously we had shooters and yet shamant. But
it's just like I felt like I had to show
dig d and see what I was made of and
show him like you brought me here for a reason.
And you know, it's hard to imagine, like transferring. You
know that the word it was it was out there.
It was rooms that I was transferreding, Like, bro, where
they getting this from. It's just I am frustrated, but

(32:42):
like I'm not giving up this, give up this, this
is this is the life. And you know it became,
but it became. And next thing I know, we are
in the final four and I was like it was
all worth it. You know, it didn't feel good a
time because by my JUNI year, I guess the way
to stop me was to be physical and like to
like and I remember that time we was practicing and

(33:04):
I didn't notice at the time, but I guess afterwards.
He told Charlie mcnaery every time at wanna get the
ball fouling, We're not gonna call foules and I'm just
I mean telling was just.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
You know, and I remember this and I'm just like
you wanted.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
To beat Charlie up, you know, because I never got
to the point where I got like, ain'try or like
and I was like, Tyler, if you found me one
more time and on.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And I remember was there the court and.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I apologized to Toiler all the time that I kind
of pushed him over water through and stuff. Was that
but like that apparently it's because had I not gone
through like just the little thing, because I had a
lot of success early, you know that time I had
adversity once I got.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
To the league. Not only what I went through, but
like being able to talk to you because.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
You was talking to me in college like that stuff
made me to the point where you know, and I
could deal with, you know, the craziness that I had
to deal with for sixteen years and so forth.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
So sixteen years, but just thinking about that, all of
these but I think you did one, two, three, four, Yeah, yeah, exactly.
This is sixteen was tough.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
And I remember the main reason for me is when
I went to the Clippers and I told Doc, I said,
I just I'm not trying to No worry boy playing time.
I just want an opportunity to win. I've made this money,
I've passed success, individual success, team success. That's when they
had Blake Griffin, Chris Paul all those guys, and I
remember something happened.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I end up getting traded midway through the season. It
was just like and I was just mentally, I was,
what did you get traded to Cleveland Atlanta? Oh?

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh that's right, that's right. And I was just like,
you know what, I'm done. But for me, I was
mentally just drained, like how did you another four or
five more years of like just now what you're doing
just to your body? And that well, I said one thing,
and that particularly time, the NBA needed vets like yourself
who can like guide these young guys that had no guidance,

(35:09):
has not been around leadership before.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
So I get it, but like that was that was
even tough.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
That's one thing I tell people all the time is
that you was able to adjust being the man to
like you know when you was in.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Jersey, of that nature, and that's the reason why you last.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
But a lot of these players can't humble themselves and
put the ego to the side and like, do what's
best for my team. And that's the test to what
happened that Carolina going through the things that we went
through as well, and for some reason, as much it
was it was mentally drained, I still loved it and
I just I got new life because I had to

(35:45):
find a new way to be effective. Yeah, for so
many years I was the go to guy blah blah
blah blah. Then I became a role player and I
just enjoyed it till I didn't. Yeah, you know what
I'm saying. And so it was tough, Like it's for
a lot of reasons. You know, as you get older,
they they look at you like, you know, you're you're

(36:07):
in your forties, you shouldn't be playing. But I felt
like I was productive, you know, and you know you
deal with that that side of it, you know that,
you know. And I remember I used to ask you
all the time, like, Bro, I heard of some some
spots available. You're trying to play, You're like, don't call me.
Just like when I travel to make it. When I
traveled with the team for like maybe a week or so, bro,
Like I'm like, how did I do it?

Speaker 1 (36:28):
I did this? It's just a credible and I'm not
playing it. I get to the you know how it is.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
You get to the hotel that night, shoot around, get
your gym early, watch the game, get on the plane.
I'm just like, man, it's just it's just And that's
the thing to people like do you miss it?

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Do you?

Speaker 2 (36:46):
And I'm like no, because every practice, every game, I
try to play eighty two as much like I gave
everything I possibly could. So if I was just bs
to doing practice so I didn't, you know, play as
many games as I could, maybe I felt like I
had some more left in the tank. But I gave
the game all that I could and I was playing

(37:08):
a game because I can remember so that that was tough.
I remember coming that last season. I'm just like, how
this guy not only just on a team, but like
you said, you was effective and you was playing and
it's unfortunately what happened with like you know, COVID and
things of that nature. But I was I wasn't awe man,
because I just like I was done five years ago.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I don't understand how my guy is still going out there.
I'm just.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I enjoyed until I got home and I was like
Oh my god, I need to.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Go to sleep. Brother, Let me go to sleep so
I can be good for tomorrow. You still I saw
you on night? You still like how? I don't know? Yeah?
I tried to.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Man, that took everything I gotta do, like a running start,
and I'm barely getting there. I didn't have house. Did
but I was like, ain't no, wait, I'm sitting there.
You off the like just yeah, that's that's the test
to the aft. But there's no way. But hey, but
you can't been able to region bus. That's the thing
that accused me.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
That's how I just that's how I figured out what
I do. I stayed further back. Yeah, but I will
tell you this. It's funny you say about the travel.
I did a nets Wizards game. You know, I called
you to see if you're in town. But we did
the Next Wizard.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
So I was in DC and got in hotel and
caught the bus over and it was strange for me.
So in twenty two years, I never had not been
on the first bus. I either was before the first
bus or on the first bus. Yeah, I was on
They have three buses now and I was on the
third bus, and I was like.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
What is this like?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
And it's like players that play on the third bus,
Like it was just weird for me because I've just
never done it. I was like before we're talking about
before ubers, you know, we're catching calves and stuff like
yeah or whatever. Or if I'm on the first bus
in New Jersey, r J and I used to race
it literally off the bus, would run to the locker
room to race to see the first one, the girl

(39:11):
on the court, Like, I mean, it's just so, it's
just it was just strange for me.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Man.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
It's funny you say that because I remember when I
got drafted. I had Mookie blailout, John Stark, Terry Cummings,
Christy Budget was there too. And I remember our first
preseason game. We're playing in Sack. It's get a call
on my phone and it's John Stalks. He's like, rookie

(39:37):
ready to go. I'm like, but it's not for another
hour and a half. He said, no, no, no, no, we
don't go on the bus. We go before everybody get there.
It was John Stalks because I was the same way
like I I had to be there before everybody because
I had to get my routine down and then I
just needed so much time to like decompress and just
like focus on the game. But John stalks With was

(39:58):
the vent that told me, no, we beat the bus,
the first bus to the to the arena and like just.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
The workout that he had me going through.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
And I'm like, but I'm sitting there like this man
has played so many years and this is why he's
able to do that, so it already is still to
be there, like now we gotta be before the first bus.
So I was that way until I got to d C.
And Gil we used to fight all the time about
who's gonna be the first one. Gil was doing some

(40:27):
crazy because he was I'm like, yeah, I'm just sitting
down and taking a nap because he was there all,
you know, so much earlier than I was.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
But I get what you're saying about.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
You know now it's like everybody's on the last bus,
and you got like what I was continue to get
readed my workout time not until such such up like that.
So I just I just wanted to be the I mean,
obviously I got my nap and did what I need
to do, but soon as I finishedoot around, I got
my meal and I went straight to sleep, got my
got my rest, you know, are you gonna get your

(40:59):
rest for I'm a get at least an hour and
a half. I had to happen. It had to happen. Hey,
let me ask you about that, and then I'm gonna
go backwards a little bit. But once you finished playing,
how many years were you still taking your nap? You know,
probably midday like that twelve one, two o'clock, you know,

(41:21):
against the typical NBA nap time.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
How many years after? Yeah, it happened.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Least I would say three years after because once I retired,
I got a call from uh specialm LA the Lakers
to do like you know TV, probably like a week
out of a month. So I was going back and
forth to LA and it was the same thing, like
I took it down before I had to get ready
to go on there and that next because it's taxing

(41:48):
and we was doing pregame, halftime, postgame, so I was
getting to the arena, especially if it was an East
Coast game, probably like two o'clock, and I wasn't getting
home to about like eleven. So I was just already
trained and that was like my routine to get adapt
But then after that when I staw, I scouting. It
wasn't to the point where I need to do those things.

(42:11):
But like if I got to take able to school,
she got to be here seven forty five, I get
up to like six thirty, take her to school, go
work out. Then I come back and take it dap.
So I still take my gap for me every once
in a while. But I mean I'm with you, like
we was just that was like our ritual, our routine
for like ever a long time because we wasn't able

(42:32):
to do it acknowledge because certain days we had school
and then practice and stuff like that. But I mean
we was young, you know, we didn't know any better.
But it was probably the two or three years after
I got there. Yeah, it probably was three. It was.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Three years for sure. This year not so much. I'm
four years out now, so you still taking that?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
No, no, no, what I'm saying this year, I mean,
I'm kind of but some days about that time, I'm
just like, oh man, oh I just told you every
time I do earlier town, yeah, I'll come back and
take al about that too.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
What does December third and December sixth mean to you?
Oh man?

Speaker 2 (43:22):
December third, December sixth, December third was the day that
I felt like I had my coming out party in December,
he said six. That was the day I played with problem.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
You kept the party going their second.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
The third player, uh, in the history of the NBA,
we had probably a very historic night before for both
of us and.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
For those of you who don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
December third one played Versu the Seattle SuperSonics. Fifty one points,
fourteen rebounds, twenty three for thirty six. You would getting
them things up. And the reason I wrote this down
because it's like I said, fifty one points, fourteen rebounds,
twenty three for thirty six, two for seven from three.

(44:10):
And the reason I'm saying that for fifty one points,
we're seeing now obviously more shots, but you only took
seven and four free throws. You're three for four from
the free throw line in forty eight minutes. Played the
whole game. Wow, I played whole gad it was it
was not overtime. It was yeah, so and that said
it was and then you come around with your next

(44:30):
performance back to back. At the time, you were, like
I said, I think you were one of two guys
and I think was the other one. At the time
they scored back to back fifties or something like that,
and well obviously will But December sixth you played the Lakers. Yeah,
fifty one points, thirteen rebounds, five assists, twenty one for
twenty nine. That boy was effichit that night. One nine

(44:55):
two for five from three, seven for eight from the
free throw line in fifty three minutes.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Okay, that was overtime, So that one was in overtime.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
And on the flip side, Kobe had fifty one points,
seven rebounds, eight assists, eighteen for thirty five. He was
only that was his first fifty one point game, though,
was fifty point game. I think that was in two thousand.
So yeah, that was the first, Yeah, to cut off.
That was his first two for seven from three, and
he was thirteen for thirteen from the free throw line
in fifty one minutes and he had eight turnovers. Yeah,

(45:27):
so yeah, And I had to go down and look
and I was like, all right, man, did I get
And he had a long list of forty and thirty
balls and I had to see if I was a
part of any of those. And you know, you gave
New Jersey I think thirty seven piece.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
But we won, So that's all that mattered. Wh who's
going that night? What mean, hey, I'm played too at
that time? What me?

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Even though I would say, I remember, you know, I'll
never forget the joy we had obviously at draft knight.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Everybody who knows us knows about draft night.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
You getting it was the weirdest thing for me seeing
you get drafted to Toronto when you did work out
for him, and obviously I get drafted by Golden State.
We get traded for each other, the funniest thing ever.
And I still laughed at I remember, obviously it was
all nerves for me, living in the moment. You see
the you see the draft and now I'm about to

(46:20):
go up and shake the commissioner's hand like we seen
for years of our lives, you know whatever, whatever. And
I remember walking up through steps of seeing you trying
to say something to me. I'm like, bro, what but
what do you say? I don't know what you're telling,
what you're saying, And come to find out you were
telling we're about to get traded for each other.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Food. Oh that's what you said. So it was just
the craziest thing.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
But to go through all of that, and I just
remember the fun times we had, particularly the first two
years regardless, And like I said, I know the conversations
we had when you were talking about you know, I
mean obviously the struggles, but it was I think it
brought joy to you like it did for me that
not only we were teammates for three years, we're going
through all we're gone through. Now we get to play
each other in the NBA that we talked about for

(47:01):
all those years, and just to go at each other
and have a good time. Like I still remember it
like it was yesterday. Go ahead, say what you about
to say, you want to say something crazy good. The
thing about it, evince every time we played each other,
you can see like our teammates and like I don't
think we played each other. I mean, of course, you
know we're going up against each other and trying to

(47:24):
stop each other.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
But we had fun.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
We talked so much trashy one another, and like even
till to this day, if we're on a golf course,
forget that used to say some below the belt stuff though, like.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I said, the truth.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Below I think it's I don't know what it is,
but like we we had fun.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Man.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
The banter that we had was just like and I
forgot who it was. I'm like, man, you so like
just yeah, foods out there, but we repeted. But that's
the thing, that's the joy that you're talking about, is
that we went through We did the mile run together,
the running of the sears, like dealing with Coach Smith
and the disappointment of not winning at all, but the

(48:12):
enjoyment of we were sweep mats and things of that nature,
and like we grew up having this vision and then
what happened on Draft night and then fast forward many
years down the road.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Whether I was in d C or.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Cleveland or you was in Mifphis or bro we had
fun and we talked so much junk, and that's what
was all about. Like I got the opportunity to do
it with like Samawn a little bit, but like nobody
on that team I was able to do that with.
And I did it for sixty years and never a
dull moment. It was always bringing us back to our

(48:49):
childhood when we was at Carolina and just all the
great times that we had.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
But man, we definitely enjoyed playing one another.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
That was like one always the highlight of my year,
Like okay, when I'm gonna play oh, they and we
we're bro.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Especially we used to come out for pregame and just so.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
And I'm gonna tell you another moment that that I
always remember that I enjoyed was clearly I said, us
playing against each other. But in two thousand and five
All Star Denver, we cut to being on the same team.
You know now and you know obviously something in the
in the magazine and the Carolina program they have that picture.

(49:30):
Uh and of course you played in two thousand and
eight in New Orleans as well, Like, uh, what was
that like for you?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Man?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
To me, I've got oh, that was what it's all about,
because like I've been able to go on this journey
with my brother and will encompass so many things and
like being force center, being able to you know, being
an All Star game with he was just like, man,

(50:01):
this is what about because we had that vision and
the only thing I wish we could have done together,
but what was the able to do it was the
Olympic team. But like just to like go through those
All Stars and like, man, we not only went to
college and had success, but we are own this the
biggest stage playing against the best basketball players in the world,

(50:24):
and we're in an All Star Game, and I recalled
just remember seeing it like on TV and then like
not only make it to the alslow game, but to
do alongside my brother at Competer Gainst Kobe Bryance and like,
you know those guys to kill O'Neill's and Kevin Go
and Dad and you know those guys. I mean, it
was it was unbelievable feeling to be able to experience

(50:46):
all the success, to be able to do it with
you for such a long time. What was one of
your favorite NBA teams that you played on, And it
doesn't have to be as far as success, like a
team that you genuinely enjoyed. I mean, if it wasn't,
I say it it's you know, Go to Stay. Of
course that that is a team that drafted me and
I learned so much. Travis Stanley with the with the organization,

(51:09):
bring me rid of those guys, like they kind of
molded me, you know for the moment.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
And I remember going to Dallas.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
It was the first time I experienced they had Dirt,
Steve Nash, Michael Finley, they brought me, Danny Forreston, Tony Dusk,
so many guys. But that was the first time I
experienced three superstars, not worrying about the credit and just
like having success and like really you know, being there

(51:38):
for each other. But you know, the times I had
in DC were probably my favorite because the organization was
really struggling and to have the turnaround we had with myself,
you know, Gilbert Readers, of course, Coron, Larry Hughes and
those guys like that's what like, you know, the majority
of the kids was born as so like DC has

(52:00):
a special place in my heart, and of course working
for them the last couple of seasons, but I just remember,
like that city man, every time I go back, Vince
is just like, you know, it's unbelievable. And my time
in Cleveland was kind of a little difficult because Lebron
I thought was going to be there, but he left
and it was kind of like a rebuilding stage that

(52:20):
I had at that particular time.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Washington and the Lakers.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
To play with the great Kobe BRYANNT was unbelievable for
a year, and then of course what happened with the Clippers. Man,
it was DC was definitely probably my favorite place because
of the amount of time I spent there and like
being in the community and all the Golden State, Dallas,
you know, the Washington, Cleveland and Lakers.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Man was unbelievad So the.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Wizards basically, I mean because y'all were y'all were consistent.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
That's the thing that was so close, so close.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
But running to that, this team from Ohio, you know,
made sure that didn't happen. And just like then we
got to the point where it was just a little
bit too many side distractions that prevented us from really
hitting our potential. But you know, we learned a lot.
And like of course, I see Kuran he coaching with Maambi.
We talked about those times. And of course Gilbert, you

(53:13):
know Britain, his stays up the streets, so we were
teammates for for a while and you know he talked
about his Eddy joint days and yes, I mean it
was a good times, like being Jared Jeffrey talk. So
it's just it was fun to be there. What's it
been like for you, uh in in your current role
in the personnelse But like I mean, I mean, obviously
I remember you've worked your way up to you know,

(53:35):
you were a scout scouting and now you're kind of
like you're making moves Man, how has that been?

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Man Like?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I mean, I know, it's just it's a different side
of it. But at the same time it's a very influential,
important part of the organization as well. Yeah, I mean
it's been. It's been the closest thing to playing. You
get those competitive juices to be part of the behind
the scenes. We'll make a comeback then, to believe it,

(54:02):
my back of my knees otherwise, but it gives me
to be behind the scenes to put this team in
this organization and position to do something that I still
haven't done, which is to win the championship.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
That's the one thing that keeps me going. You know,
it kind of kept me going as a player and
now being a part of organization and like this is
you gonna be part of the reason why we'd be successful.
I got a great group of co workers who I'm
still learning, Guys that i've been you know, co workers
for that's kind of took me on the they wings.
You know Johnny Rodgers, you know Frank Ross, Dicky Simpsons

(54:43):
who played for the Bulls. I mean, they are teaching
me things every day, Vince about this part that and
I'm always humbled myself because I've always want to learn.
I always want to be surrounded by people who can,
you know, elevate be as well. And it's just been
good to be able to humble myself and not carry

(55:07):
myself as into one Damson's basketball player, but like into
Onence Jamieson, who's trying to who's part of a whole.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Different team that I enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
You can say the same thing, but I say this,
I've never worked a day in my life playing the
game and get paid to watch basketball and you get
paid to like talk about it and things of that nature.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
So I've been fortunate. It's been it's been a great experience.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
To the people that I've been surrounded by have been unbelievable,
and I continue to learn, you know, every every time
I get on a phone call or every time I
watch a game, and it's setting my notes in and
it has been unbelievable being a gym. I know we
had this conversation before. We're in a situation where it
was a possibility, but you know, here we are. I

(55:54):
think that was what three four years ago or maybe
two three years ago, Really it wasn't that long ago.
Do you still have those aspirations of being a GM
or you know you're enjoying where you are. Then I
follow up, what about coaching? I would have a coach, okay,
because you got to think about it and be first

(56:15):
one then last one to leave when things go right.
Don't get no credit when things go wrong. We first
went out of there. But I just remember, no low
to the coaches. I'm with you, none of that. But
like towards the end of my Washington Cleveland days, I
was kind of a player coach because I had to
relate to these young players. That's why I like the business,

(56:38):
the positions of being down because from my side doing practices,
I go in and talk to a d D outter
about I know what's going on with your head, but
it's hard for them to understand. And hinting from the
same voice every day, Yeah for sure. And I just
I just can't keep up that scale. That schedule is
just it just too brutal for me. Eventually, Vince, I

(56:58):
would love to. I think that thing that it's prevented
me from achieving that quicker is because of Alexis is
already grad school. But Katherine Rutger a j and Ava your.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Family, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
I when we was coming up, we had Ava, you know,
we had Katherine and Kay at a young age, and
we was just always gone, man, between practicing and playing.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
The whole catholin e sperience is just like wow.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
And now that I'm retired, you know Aj and Rucker
playing basketball, I want to be able to if I
do be in a position to be a gem, I
have to be able to not only give it my all,
be able to like best the two together. And I
think right now I cannot do that, especially if I

(57:51):
want to be there for all the games, most of
the games, and now Ava's playing tennis. I want to
like be there a disappointing stage four. So if it
does happen and be a blessing, but I don't see
it happening in the next couple of years.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Because Ruk is fourteen.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
So by the time Rutg is like sixteen seventeen about
to go to college, then I can see myself giving
it all because it will be like ten or eleven
and things of that nature. About he was fourteen about
sixty four six, I mean he getting there, man, getting there.
So right now, I just think the family aspect is
like taking a more important role than like trying to

(58:30):
careerize to that point right now. But I have no
problem going at the pace. Like I said, I'm learning
every day. I'm learning from the new guys we got
now Will Dawkins and Travis and those guys.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Have been unbelievable. So I love it. I love learning.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I love trying to understand this generations of basketball players
and the way the game is being played, Like if
we're still going to have there's amount of three pointers
taking ten years from now, or we're gonna go to
different type of style of basketball. But I mean, it's
just unbelievable to see the skills set that these players

(59:07):
have and just in all of like the way the
game is changed and to like kind of you know,
fixate my mind and getting away from what we did
but kind of implement to what they're doing to the
uh And how has that transition been for you? Because
I mean it's like now you're looking at you're looking
at seven footers like, oh man, it's about can he

(59:28):
shoot the three? More so than what is this what
does this post moves look like?

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:33):
But you know, think about when we came out if
you were especially like in high school if he was tall,
like you get the paint, but them it doesn't make
a difference. And that's the one thing I'm saying. You
gotta have a skill set. You gotta have you gotta
be able to put the fundamentals down. I think back

(59:53):
then it was just we was known for being very
athletic and quick and things of that nature. But you
see guys like jo Kis and Luke could come over here, like, look,
we ain't got to be quick, we ain't gotta be athletic.
We are skilled. And that's the way I see the
game now. The game now, think about it, Like the
game now is so much skilled. And when we played

(01:00:14):
this unbelievable people like you know, when y'all played, you
know those guys playing, man, these guys are skilled. Imagine
like jokis playing in like the sixties and the se
mean he can do it all. And like that's the
one thing it's been smooth because I've always you know,
try to like just you know, and I do kind

(01:00:35):
of the game will be changing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
But like the thing that's been difficult for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Is that sometimes when we talk to these guys, the
passion and like just like for us, Vince like you know,
it was like this is this was it, and we
played at a certain level. We play with a certain
type of like pace and things of that nature, and
sometimes and we play you know, we wouldn't sitting there

(01:01:01):
with sitting there going you know behind it. I started
working on the skill set to like midway through my
my career. But I think about the time I'm going
back to like when we was in college, three or
four o'clock in the morning, we was out there like
playing pickup games.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yeah, and New Year's e. Yeah, it's like that was
it is. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
And the thing I think the biggest adjustment is that
when we get these players now, it's almost like we're
teaching them how to play, because they are skilled to
the point where they can, you know, the left hand,
they can do all these other things, but the planning
aspect and like the other side of the game has
to be taught because a lot of guys are able

(01:01:44):
to make that quick transition where we played, but it's
kind of been a little difficult for a lot of
the young guys. Yeah, And because I mean, you talk
about that and I just say that because you look
at like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
A wimby who coming in check hunger.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
And we're talking about seven foot two plus with a
skill set. You know, you said you're looking at skill set.
Now you're talking about seven foot two plus guys with
a skill set with the ability to shoot the three,
put the ball on the floor, and can post up,
you know, like a nice HNT, whatever can get in
the paint, can make plays off the dribble. Things that

(01:02:17):
are that take time for guys. They're coming in with
a version of that already. It's just I mean, I
know for you, I mean obviously for me as a
fan watching obviously talking about it, it's just fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
But I bet that's I mean for.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
You now scouting watching college basketball, so you're looking at, now,
what skill set do you have? Not because oh he's
a big body, he's strong, Okay, So what can you do?
Something has to stand out, Something has to catch your eye,
whether they are just a super athletic guy or skill
big or he could just fight out and shoot the ball.
Something has to catch your eye. And then from our

(01:02:53):
experience as far as playing the game and being around
it and understanding the way the game is being played now,
trying to just see in the future for ten years
in a row, can that translate to the next level,
or he got all these Susans just built, but he
went he just went to to be able like myself,

(01:03:14):
Like I couldn't shoot the ball. In order for me
to sustain to be in the league for sixty years,
I had to learn how to shoot it. For a
long time, you had the ability to still score, you
run the floor, you had a high motor. So I
still felt like you had a skill set that can
still last in the lead. Now it was the evolution
of the game. I feel like as he transitioned to

(01:03:35):
year ten for us, the game started to change. Now
the stretch forward became more of a priority, which I
mean benefit of you, because you know, you went from
just I'm not gonna say strictly post, but because you
still had the mid range, but you were stepping out
to eighteen twenty feet or whatever the case may be.
Shooting the three. Now now it's like picking pop. Yeah,

(01:03:57):
he's supposed to be in the pain. No, he out
there shooting three. So but there again, we were prepared
for it, you know, just understanding and your willingness to
learn and change and adapt.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
That was what did it for me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Is my willingness to adapt to new role, new asks
of me and everything, and you know I was still
willing to do it. So Man, anyway, I'm gonna let
you get out of here, but I appreciate you, know,
always you coming here. Blessing the VC Show Season two.
I had to get my guy on here first to
kick off the new season. Thank you to iHeart for

(01:04:30):
bringing me back so I can bring you on talk
great basketball. Shout out to all the Carolina fans out there,
because I mean, I'm sure you guys enjoyed this we
were on before, but like we wanted to kind of
bring it back again. Man, appreciate you man. You never
asked my brother. I love you. You know it's there. Indeed, no,
we've been brothers for spend a long time. So always

(01:04:53):
to talk to you, man, and tell you to getting
these people ears and to the living rooms and bring
them something today that they would love to hear you
cover say with so many great just individuals. So I'm
just blessed to be a part of it again. You
don't want to be a problem next time, So I
love you, man to say hey to me home with
the kids and every time you own you know, I

(01:05:13):
got to say man. Shout out to Autamloca Elijah. Man,
we love you brother always. You know, we always will
never be forgotten. We're definitely always going to talk about you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Man. So for those who don't recall Man, go look
him up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
He's our brother. He's a great dude.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
He he can light up a room. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
You know you might not be able to understand what
he said all the time, but that man would light
up a room.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Shout out to our tar Hill family as well. Man,
much love Man. Thank you again brother any time, my brother.
I appreciate it. What a trip down memory lane with
Antoine Man shout out to him. All right, our upper
room dunk of the week clip none other than you
guessed it, Anthony Edwards. I mean it needs no introduction.

(01:05:58):
Just sit back and enjoy and then I'll explain.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Dude, shouldn't one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Let's talk about John Collins, My former teammate. John Collins
was known as John the Baptist who has baptized a
lot of people, not only to get dunked on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
He was concussed.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
If you would right here, if you watch, the left
arm hits John right in the face, and you see
once the contact knocks him down. They said he got
a concussion. And then you look at Anthony Edwards left
finger dislocated ant tenors.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Hurt his hand on that too. That was ridiculous. Immediately
looked down at his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
As much as the highlight you see the finger, good gracious,
but here as a dunker, when you see Aaron opportunity,
you take advantage of it. And he's one of those
guys that you have a decision to make. And I
think midway obviously John got hit in the face, but
midway John knew he made a bad decision on trying
to block this, especially with the athlete like Anthony Edwards,

(01:07:13):
with this momentum you see here, here's the bounce pass one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Two and then lean.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Anytime, if I can get up in the air before
you and I can lean, meaning I can hit you first,
I'm gonna win.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
And this kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Reminds me of what I did to Alonzo morning, is
that I got up first, and I was leaning up
in the air first, so any contact that I received
helped me. Just like Anthony Edwards, he got up first,
he's leaning, he can absorb contact obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Can go a little higher.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
And that was the ending result that was an Upper
Room dunk of the week. Our next segment is who
did I run into this week? Last week I got
the opportunity to play in the Arnold Palmer Invitational pro
Am and I was paired of with Trevor Lawrence, Colin Moorekawa,

(01:08:08):
and Baron Corbyn who was a WWE wrestler. For those
who you know know it. It was a great group.
We did not win, learned a lot, had a good time.
I played golf with with Trevor in a tournament or
two before, so I kind of knew him already, so
it was his great time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Great group.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
I played okay, the rough at bay Hill was insane,
but you know, anytime you get an opportunity to play
with a professional in any sport, me being a former professional,
just like those other two guys, we were tuned in
watching and learning and it was a great, great time,
great opportunity. I wish I played better, but yeah, that's

(01:08:47):
who I ran into. Shout out to those guys. I
appreciate you guys for obviously allowing me to be a
part of the group and watching me do my thing
a little bit. And our last segment is shoutouts since
we had Antoine Jamison on you guys know where he

(01:09:08):
went to school. My shoutout goes to Hubert Davis and RJ.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Davis.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Hubert Davis who is the ACC Coach of the Year, RJ.
Davis who is the ACC Player of the Year, and
both of those are nominated for the National IF Say
Award for both, So shout out to those guys. Good
luck to him obviously, good luck to my tar Heels
as they go through the tournament. It's gonna be tough,
but always have faith. It's always a great day to

(01:09:37):
be a tar Heel. Signing off, I appreciate everybody, Thank you,
thank you for joining us. What season two is now back?
Subscribe to us, follow us, keep us in your mind,
kick your feet up every week.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
The VC Show signing off.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Let's go It's the VC Show.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
It's the VC Show. It's the VC Show. It's the
VC Ship. CV Dude, Let's get show. Let's go home.
Let's go home, ladies and gentlemen, Let's go home.