February 20, 2025 • 32 mins
Thousands of opponents to Iran's authorities rallied in Paris, organized by the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), to call for the fall of the government in Tehran. The protest coincides with President Trump's maximum pressure campaign against Iran. Alireza Jafarzadeh, deputy director of NCRI, discusses the Iranian resistance, highlighting the regime's use of its space program to camouflage nuclear weapons development and the importance of international support for the Iranian opposition. Their conversation covers the history of Iran's political landscape, the role of the NCRI in exposing the regime's activities, and the potential for significant change in Iran through internal resistance and external pressure.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of News World on February eighth and Paris,
thousands of opponents to Iran's authorities rallied to call for
the fall of the government in Tehran, hopeful the President
Trump's maximum pressure campaign could lead to change in the country.
The protest was organized by the Paris based National Council
(00:24):
of Resistance of Iran, which is banned in Iran. Two
of the group's members face imminent execution, with a further
six sentenced to death in November. Here to discuss the
Iranian resistance. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest and
my friend, Alreza Jeffarzade, deputy director of the National Council
(00:45):
of Resistance of Iran. He Loreisa, welcome and thank you
for joining me on News World.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Speaking Gingrich, you know you have been a great supporter
of the people of Iran since the days that you
were in the House, even before you became the speaker
in the House, you always supported freedom in Iran.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You always supported our movement.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You counter the challenge that we're posed at that time
by the so called moderates, and there were people who
were trying to justify reaching out to the Irano regime
on their different pretext, and you stood firm against that,
and you stood on our side, And we really appreciate
it goes back to, you know, decades, so really appreciate
(01:41):
what you've done so far.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well. I never forgot a conversation I had with Secretary
of Friends Bob Gates, who had been a deputy in
nineteen seventy nine negotiating with the new Iranian dictatorship, and
he said, based on his experience, there were no moderates
in the regime, and anybody who thought there was simply
(02:05):
did not understand the nature of the regime. So I
have found in my experience that the National Council of
Resistance of Iran has remarkable ties inside the country and
has a tremendous amount of information about what's going on.
Can you talk about the use of Iran space program
as a cover for their nuclear activities.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
The NCRI has a great network support, mostly based on
their main pivotal member organization within the Parliament in exile,
which is known as the Muchaiden how or the MEK.
They have a network all over the country and they
have been very consistent in showing what the run regime
is up to not just on the nuclear side, but
(02:47):
on all sides, on terrorism, on their killings inside Iran.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now, this is the same movement that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Exposed all the major nuclear sites off Iran in August
of two thousand and two, the nuclear site in natans
and Iraq, which actually triggered for the first time the
inspections of Iranian nuclear sites by the UN nuclear watchdog,
the IAEA that has continued ever since. Now, the new
information that we got that we just released was that
(03:16):
the Iran regime has been using the space program as
a camouflage to hide their very extensive nuclear weapons program
actually building nuclear warheads. They have been working on solid
fuel missiles with the range exceeding three thousand kilometers that
are being manufactured at two sites in Shahrud and Semnan
(03:40):
that they were known to be as missile sites, and
the regime always portrayed them as being the sites that
they're launching missiles for satellite to put in the orbit.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But in reality, we found out that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
The top organization that is in charge of building nuclear weapons,
known as Organization for Advanced Defense Research or SAPAN spn D,
which we first exposed in twenty eleven and was later
confirmed by the IEA and designated by the US government.
That organization is all over these two sites in Semnon
(04:18):
and Shaharud, and they are covering the building of nuclear
warheads under the cover of launching a space program. Let
me tell you this, Speacare you know the nuclear program
of the Round regime has never been a peaceful one.
It was always since day one, it was meant to
build the nuclear bomb for the Iran regime. And that
(04:40):
process has continued. And I remember in two thousand and
two when we first exposed in Washington the nuclear size
in the Tanzan Iraq. I mean, that was an opportunity
for the outside world to stop that program, but unfortunately
they went the other direction.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
They went to a piece of regime.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
They giving them concessions and down and negotiating, and they
basically legitimize the program. And this is where we are
twenty four years later, that the regime is really very
close to building the bomb.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Why do you think some people in the West talk
themselves again and again into believing that you can trust
the dictatorship. What do you think is the underlying rationale?
Why do they do that?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, it could be a number of factors. That definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't think they really understand the nature of this regime.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
That this regime is built on. Destruction is built on
basically two pillars.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
One is external, which is building nuclear weapons, the missile program,
their terror operations, their proxy groups, their drone program, all
of that. And then internally they're relying on repression, killing
their own opponents, killing any voices of descent. That's how
they operate and that's how they speak with the outside world.
(05:58):
This is not a rational regime that you can sit
down and negotiate and say, Okay, we give you this,
you give us that. No, this regime is ideology. It's
a reson death is based on those pillars that I mentioned.
So that's why if you sit down with the Iatolas,
you're going to end up legitimizing their terror operations.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You end up giving them the chance.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
This regime has taken hostages since the eighties, and they
got into negotiation with the outside role to give them
money and resources in exchange for returning hostages, only to
take a few more. So, the West actually allowed the
regime to make the hostage taking a very profitable business
and put yourself in the shoes of the Iatolas. You know,
(06:41):
why would they give up hostage taking if it brings
them revenue. That's why I think the outside world were
always wrong in just looking at Iran through the prism
of the regime itself, as though Iran is only about
the Iatolas. No, the vast majority of the people of
Iran are posed to this regime.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There is an alternative. There is an organized.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Force trying to bring down the Iatolas and establish democracy
and freedom in the country. And because they were so
fixated in them reaching out to the Molas, they had
to close their eyes to the opposition. And not only that,
the number one demand of the run regime from their counterparts,
whether the United States or Europe, was to harm the opposition.
(07:28):
You fould the designation yourself. In nineteen ninety seven, that
was during the Clinton administation. They designated the very same
movement that exposed all the major movisides of around. They
designated that as an FTO Foreign terrorist organization. It took
fifteen years for this movement to fight the designation, get
Congress on his site, go through the courts and fight
(07:49):
that designation and get off in twenty twelve. Why would
anyone want to harm those who are actual freedom fighters
who are fighting your enemy.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So it's based on really this.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Wrong perception that you're going to get something out of
these molas. And I think after five decades, now is
the time for the world to understand that the head
of the snake of war and terror lies in Tehran
and the only way left for ending that terror is
to crush the head of the snake. And of course
that's the responsibility of the people of Iran.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And we will do it.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The outside world they just need to understand it and
recognize the legitimacy of those who are fighting to bring
change in Iran.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Ayatola Committee recently went on national television and said, when
we say death to America, this is not a slogan,
this is a policy. And then recently he said, in
the sweech, negotiations with America do not solve any of
our problems. I mean, given that, what do you think
(08:52):
the impact will be of President Trump, who signed a
National Security Presidential Memorandum on February fifth, which says, quote,
restoring maximum pressure on the government of the Islamic Republic
of Iran, denying around all paths to a nuclear weapon
encountering Iran's malign influence abroad. What do you expect from
(09:14):
the Trump administration given that presidential memorandum.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Well, certainly this is a big change taker, you know,
in terms of policy, because this is the last thing
that the Aretolos ever wanted. They wanted to have the
ability to sell their oil and get all the revenue
that they need so that they can fund their terror groups.
They can increase the funding for the suppression of the population,
(09:39):
and actually by legitimacy, by that when the maximum pressure
policy is reinstated, that's a huge plus for the people
and against the regime. But we need to understand that
the situation now is very different than eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
This regime is highly vulnerable now.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
There is a very serious opportunity to not just counter
the threat or limit the threat, or limit the ability
of the Iran regip with the maximum Pressure policy brings,
but also empower those on the ground who want to
bring about change.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You want to end the threat for once and for all.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I mean, you don't want to punt it, you don't
want to just delay it.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You want to end it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
The world shouldn't live in a coexistence with the epicenter
of terror and chaos in the region and the people
of Iran have long rejected that. So here's an opportunity
without you know, boots on the ground, without even appropriating money,
none of that, to build pressure on the Iran regime,
but also at the same time create space for those
(10:44):
on the ground who are already fighting the regime to
bring about change. And it's so important when I say
on the ground, because you know, it's one thing to
have critics and just talk about the problem of the
Round regime. It's another thing to actually bring it down.
Remember in Syria, Asset, you know, the whole world was
against it, but at the end of the day, it
(11:06):
took those on the ground to push back the forces
of Asset and bring down the Asset regime that probably
had one of the best equipped armies in the whole region.
But yet you know, when the support from the outside
was diminished, their pillars were weakened. That was the opportunity
for forces on the crown, and that's exactly what the
(11:27):
Rain Resistance has been trying to do. There have been
nine rounds of major uprisings in Iran in all thirty
one provinces. People seek change, and at the forefront of
that has been you know the resistance units of the
MK These are mostly young people who have been fighting
the revolution guards, trying to target them and break down
(11:49):
this aura of invincibility of the regime, to show the
people that this regime is not ten feet tall, that
you can actually bring it down. That's where the investment
should be. And that's exactly the opposite of what the
regime wants to do. The regime is doing a huge
amount of propaganda and demonization campaign against this very same
(12:09):
movement that is trying to overthrow them, and you're calling them,
called that, oh, they have no support, they're terrorists, or
this and that, and that's of course what you expect from.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
The Iran regime. Right now, there's a court.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Set up by the Iran regime putting the leaders of
this movement in absentia on trial, trying to create some
kind of illegal precedence and use it against the Western nations,
but also use that as propaganda to fend off the
support of the youth in Iran for this movement. You
need to counter that, and I think this is the
(12:42):
opportunity and that's why Congress has always been since the
time you were in speaker, on our side and there's
a very bipartisan support in the House and the Senate
for this movement for missus Rajavi and her ten point
plan that has a very clear platform for the future
of Iran, that says Iran has to be rule based
(13:02):
on the ballot box, not you know, legitimacy coming from
the Iatollahs which they say they get it from God,
or if you have a better gene which was under
the Shaw's dictatorship, the monarchy that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Didn't rule based on ballot box.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That needs to end. It has to be based on
suppression of religion and state. It has to be based
on gender equality, free market economy. Piece in the Mid
East and the non nuclear republic Iran, that's the platform
that is gaining momentum in the House and the Senate,
but also in Europe, and that's where you want to focus.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Israel Defense Minister Israel Cats warned of potential strikes on
Iran's nuclear facility. What are your thoughts on the possibility
of military action? How would that impact both Iran, Israel
and the broader Middle East.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
This is not a new issue.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
This issue has been going on for years and people
are thinking, Okay, what's the solution to the nuclear threat
of the Irano regime. But I think especially since October
of twenty twenty three, the world has realized that the
threat of the Iran regym is not just limited to
their nuclear weapons program.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Look what they're doing with their.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Proxies and how they're the epicenter of war and terror
in the region.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
People.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm sure they're thinking about band aid solutions, you know,
temporary solutions here and there.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But you know, at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
What is the world going to do with the threat
of the Irano regime. The only really viable alternative Volleybood
solution to end the threat is to end the rule
of the clerics, and of course, as I said, that's
the responsibility of the people of Iran.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
No outside world can actually do that.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, Iran is a huge country with ninety million population,
so the role of the organized resistance on the ground
is absolutely crucial. So I would suggest everyone should be
focusing on those forces on the ground, those who have
been fighting the regime. They are the real future of Iran,
that future based on the vote of the population as
(15:25):
sovereign nation that by the way, wants peace in the
Middle East, unlike the Iatolas who say push the Jews
to the sea. This movement have been favoring peace since
day one. So I would suggest everyone, whether you know,
countries in Europe, countries in the region, in the United States,
everyone to focus on how to empower those who are
(15:48):
fighting the regime, but at the same time deprive the
Iran regime from the resources, from the funding. You definitely
need to snap back all the sanctions on the Iran regime.
You need to affility to deny them the resources. But
at the same time you want to create space for
those on the ground to recognize the legitimacy of their
(16:10):
fighting against the run regime. That's the real solution that
once for all would read the whole Middle East of
the epicenter of terror and chaos and think about it, speaker,
you know what an impact a free democratic republic Iran
would have, not just in the region, but the whole world.
(16:30):
It will change the face of everything. And that's the
prospect we should be looking.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
At, you know, saying with a model in a way,
is what just happened in Syria. Everybody sort of thought
the Syrian dictatorship was stable, aside was stable, and then boom,
the whole thing collapsed almost overnight. Do you think it's
possible that the religious dictatorship could in fact collapse at
(16:56):
some point.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think you brought up a great example speaker about Syria,
and everyone did think.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That you know their staple.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And remember they ran a regime had heavily invested on Syria.
They had as many as one hundred thousand of their proxies,
including Hezbollah and others in Syria. They spent at least
fifty billion dollars in keeping acid in power. Comedy spent
all of the resources on Syria. He overtly said that
(17:27):
if we lose Syria, we will lose Tehran.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And he met twice with Putting.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Comedy did in November twenty fifteen and March twenty sixteen,
specifically on keeping.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Aside in Power. Awesome.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Solemani, the terror Master, regularly traveled to Syria. He actually
met with Assad but also met with Putting trying to
get Russia involved. And in December twenty sixteen, after about
five years of fighting, they took back the strategic city
of Aleppo. Now, as you said, within eleven days, the
(18:02):
whole thing collapsed, And that's an important thing because Syria
wasn't just Syria. It was the strongest ally of the
Iran regime. They had done everything to keep it in power,
and they seem to be, you know, stable, and suddenly
this is the situation. I think this is the new
reality of the region. And that reality is definitely on
(18:23):
the mind of Comedy and the leaders of the Iran regime,
but also has its own impact among the population. The
reading people are saying that, you know it, Alas always
considered Syria as what they described as a strategic depth
of the regime.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay, that strategic depth is gone. We now have the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
These dictators they all seem very invincible until they fall.
Remember the shot that you know, he had all the
military mighty.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It was so arrogant that, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
He dissolved all the political parties and said, okay, there's
a single party.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It's my party. You're either a member of it or
you go to jail.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He had the Savaki, you know, he seemed to control
everything until the population got it and through a major revolution,
brought down that dictatorship. The same situation is with these iatolas.
They don't have the support of their people. They have
lost the clouds and the power of their proxies. And
now is the opportunity if the world really focuses on
(19:22):
the regime and the threat of the Iran regime. I
have no doubt whatsoever that this regime will be brought
down by the people of Iran. This regime has never
been so weak and the organized resistance has never been
this powerful.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
You're a major figure in the National Council of Resistance
of Iran, and I have long supported the work of
your organization. But I'm curious for Americans, what do you
consider to be the most significant achievements of the Council
in advancing the cause of a free and democratic aram.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
The Council since nineteen eighty one actually introduced an alternative
to the Iran regime. At the time that everyone was
searching for mothers within the regime, they said no, this
regime must go in its entirety. They offered a platform
that eventually was highlighted the ten point Platform for the
Future of Iran. They address every single important issue related
(20:18):
to Iran, whether it's the issue of the nationalities in Iran,
the issue of women, the issue of religion. You know,
Iran is predominantly Muslim, but they said no, it has
to be a secular government, separation of religion and state.
They didn't just talk about these issues. They didn't talk
about women equality. They implemented it in the Council itself.
(20:41):
You know, the majority of the members of the Parliament
in exile and the leadership of women they talked about
and they ratified platforms and plans for that. But also
they have been extremely active in undermining the regime. We
just talked about the nuclear program of the Iran regime.
The world didn't know anything about the nuclear weapons program
(21:03):
of Iran until you know, this movement brought to the
attention of the world. The IA inspections were triggered by
this movement and they have continued to do that. The
missile program of the Iran regime was exposed by this movement.
Their terror operations, what they were doing in Iraq and
elsewhere were exposed by this movement. But most importantly, they
(21:23):
are the engine for change in Iran. They offer an
alternative and they are in the forefront of fighting the regime.
You know, since nineteen eighty, one hundred twenty thousand members
and supporters of this movement have been killed by the
Iran regime for political griefs. You know, in summer of
nineteen eighty eight, Commedy, you know, the predecessor to Comedy,
(21:44):
issued a fatfa, a religious decree condemning to death every
single member of the EMYKB, which is part of the NCRI,
because they were modern, democratic, secular Muslims opposing the ideology
of Islamic fundation, mentalism of the Ietolos. And they killed
as man as thirty thousand political prisoners in someone of
(22:05):
eighty eight within a matter of a few weeks, hoping
that this will end any kind of opposition in Iran.
And yet now you can see the children and the
grandchildren of those who were killed in nineteen eighty eight
in the streets of Tehran and all the thirty one
provinces of Iran continuing the engine for change. The most important,
(22:25):
I think accomplishment of this movement has been continued fighting
force against the regime, not just talking about change, but
affecting change on the ground, having that network inside Iran.
Just within one year, the regime arrested three thousand, seven
hundred members and supporters of the resistance units of the
(22:47):
MEK inside Iran or kill them or they went missing.
But the good news is that more have been added
to it, and they're more powerful than ever. So I
think that's a huge accomplishment, not only to expose the
nature of the regime but also fighting it offering an
alternative so that the rest of the world wouldn't have
(23:09):
to go to war or do anything like that. Rather,
there is this genuine alternative on the ground that seeks
no money or no boots on the ground and wants
to bring about change in Iran and has a platform
that benefits the whole world. That's why it has a
support of some four thousand parliamentarians around the world in
Europe and everywhere else, but also the majority of the
(23:32):
House here and has been really a big galvanizing force
outside of Iran as well. In addition to inside the
Raley you mentioned speaker in Paris that thousands came in
Europe telling the Europeans that you need to pursue a
firm policy to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
God in Iran.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
But also they're coming here in Washington March eighth. This
coming March eighth, in Washington, there's going to be thousands
coming calling for firm policy on Iran.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This month is the forty sixth anniversary of the fall
of the Shaw's dictatorship in nineteen seventy nine, and certainly
things evolved differently than people thought they would. Could you
talk first of all about what happened right after that
and how we went from the notion of a collective,
(24:35):
more open society to a religious theocratic dictatorship, and that
brief period was just amazing how rapidly it changed.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I was in Iranity early days after the revolution.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I could see how the fall of the dictatorship had
created a tremendous opportunity for people, the freedom, the mood
of the population. But you could actually, at the same
time see how rapidly the Molas, who by the way,
came out of nowhere, stole the leadership of a genuine revolution.
You know, when the uprising started, the Molas had pretty
(25:10):
much no role in it. Romeni himself was in exile
in Iraq until four months before the fall.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Of the show.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know, the uprisings were all over the different cities,
in the different provinces in Iran. That's when Romeni saw
the opportunity, smelled the opportunity. He moved from Iraq to
near Paris in Nowfelo Chateau in October seventy eight and
in February he was in Tehran and he stole the
leadership of revolution. Why because the Shaw had eliminated the
(25:44):
nationalist forces. He had put in jail the intellectuals, anyone
who was intellectual, who was secular, he killed them. Samak
was running the show, but he kept the mosque intact.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
The Masks were not affected by the show.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
To the country. He actually helped the mosque in different
cities because they were praising the Shaw. All these clerics
would get down the stage and just say how great
the Shaw was. And Shaw was selling them the support
for the Molas to the West, saying, Okay, these Molas
are against communism. That's why I'm empowering them. I'm getting
rid of intellectuals because you know, he described them as
(26:22):
Islamic Marxists and all of that nonsense. When the opportunity came,
the only network that was intact that could take advantage
of the situation was the clerics. And even though this
revolution was not about establishing Islamic extremist ideology, but that
created an opportunity and they stole it. In the first
two years after the revolution, they put in jail intellectuals,
(26:45):
the Molas and tried to dominate power, rallying people under
the cover of anti Americanism. They targeted people like to
em Kate that folt against the Shaw as well. Their
leaders were executed by the Shop, but they became the
primary target of the Mullus. That's why I think what
we have seen a clear deviation of a genuine revolution
(27:09):
that was meant for democracy, that ended up in theocracy.
And I'm sure there are people remnants of the Shaw's dictatorship,
but also the regime itself are trying to prop up
the remnants of the dictators of the Shaw, saying, oh, look,
you know the Shaw was better than the Mullus, that
he killed less people, and just trying to create a comparison,
(27:30):
whereas a comparison is not like that.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It should be between freedom and dictatorship.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
And that's why the regime has an interest in propping
up the remnants of the dictatorship so that the outside
world would not look at the real alternative, which is democracy.
The alternative to this regime is not to go backwards
to dictatorship of a monarchy, but rather to freedom, political prurism,
(27:56):
gender equality and all of that and That's why I
think for six years later, the desire of the people
is still alive for freedom in Iran.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Now they are more experienced.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
They have seen both the dictatorship of the Shaw but
also the theocracy of the Mollahs, and that's why the
only choice left for the people is freedom and political
cruralism and a republic form of a government.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
If you had to rank them, which has been more
anti human rights and oppressive, the Shaw or the Iatolus.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Well, you know these were different eras.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
The Shaw did the most he could do under the circumstances,
because you know, he was an ally of the United States.
There were certain limitations that he couldn't do at the time.
I think he did the most he could at the
time to put people in jail, and the Sabak was
created under the Shaw. Evan prison, which is the most
notorious prison right now in Iran was built under the Shaw.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And he did everything he could, but that was the limit.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Now, when the Mullas came to power, it was a
whole new circumstances because Romeni was using religion as a cover.
He was building in a network trying to transform the
benign Islamic groups in the region into very fanatic anti
American extremist groups. That's what they did, you know, from
(29:16):
Algeria to Lebanon, look at Syria, look at Iraq, how
they try to take advantage and so of course under
that situation, it gives the Malas more leverage to kill
more people. There were definitely more people killed under the Diatolas,
creating these proxy groups around the world and inventing new
ways of torture, even though the shots different ways of torturing.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But the Molas just basically surpassed that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And that's why I think it's an opportunity for the
people of Iran to abandon their past and look for
the future. But also it's an opportunity for the West
because they have experienced both the Shaw's dictatorship and also
the current theocracy. And the answer is really a democratic,
free republic Iran, and what an impact it would have
(30:04):
for the whole world.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
All Rasa, I want to thank you for joining me in.
I've known you a good well now and I know
how consistently you and the National Council of Resistance of
Iran have worked to create a free, independent Iran that
would be beyond the show, beyond the Iatolas be an
integrated part of the world in a positive way that
(30:27):
would look out and would offer the people of Iran
a dramatically better future. We're going to have on our
show page your website at ncrdash Iran dot org. Your
website is a daily Iran news and brief which I
recommend to people as a quick look at what is
happening each day in Iran. And I want to thank
you for taking the time today to help educate our listeners.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You know, I've known you for decades and you have
been very consistent yourself in highlighting the threat but also
high lighting the solution because it may be easier to
highlight the threat, but a lot more difficult to highlight
the solution.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
But it also takes a lot of courage, and that's
what you had.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I've known you the same way when you were in
the house and after that, and really appreciate what you're
doing with these shows in spreading the world, educating everybody
and pointing everyone to the right direction. And I'm very
hopeful that Iran will soon be free, and we'll invite
you and everybody else to come and see free and
democratic Republic Iran.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
It would be fabulous to be able to spend next
year in Tehran.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Absolutely looking forward. Speak here.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Thank you to my Guestresa Jefferzade. You can learn more
about the National Council Resistance of Iran on our show
page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by
Janush twenty sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Sloan.
Our researcher is Rachel Peterson for the show was created
(32:01):
by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at gager Street sixty.
If you've been enjoying newts World, I hope you'll go
to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars
and give us a review so others can learn what
it's all about. Right now listeners of Neutral concerner for
my three freeweekly columns at Gangerstreet sixty dot com slash newsletter.
(32:23):
I'm Newt Gingrich. This is neut World
On this episode of News World on February eighth and Paris,
thousands of opponents to Iran's authorities rallied to call for
the fall of the government in Tehran, hopeful the President
Trump's maximum pressure campaign could lead to change in the country.
The protest was organized by the Paris based National Council
(00:24):
of Resistance of Iran, which is banned in Iran. Two
of the group's members face imminent execution, with a further
six sentenced to death in November. Here to discuss the
Iranian resistance. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest and
my friend, Alreza Jeffarzade, deputy director of the National Council
(00:45):
of Resistance of Iran. He Loreisa, welcome and thank you
for joining me on News World.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Speaking Gingrich, you know you have been a great supporter
of the people of Iran since the days that you
were in the House, even before you became the speaker
in the House, you always supported freedom in Iran.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You always supported our movement.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
You counter the challenge that we're posed at that time
by the so called moderates, and there were people who
were trying to justify reaching out to the Irano regime
on their different pretext, and you stood firm against that,
and you stood on our side, And we really appreciate
it goes back to, you know, decades, so really appreciate
(01:41):
what you've done so far.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well. I never forgot a conversation I had with Secretary
of Friends Bob Gates, who had been a deputy in
nineteen seventy nine negotiating with the new Iranian dictatorship, and
he said, based on his experience, there were no moderates
in the regime, and anybody who thought there was simply
(02:05):
did not understand the nature of the regime. So I
have found in my experience that the National Council of
Resistance of Iran has remarkable ties inside the country and
has a tremendous amount of information about what's going on.
Can you talk about the use of Iran space program
as a cover for their nuclear activities.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
The NCRI has a great network support, mostly based on
their main pivotal member organization within the Parliament in exile,
which is known as the Muchaiden how or the MEK.
They have a network all over the country and they
have been very consistent in showing what the run regime
is up to not just on the nuclear side, but
(02:47):
on all sides, on terrorism, on their killings inside Iran.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now, this is the same movement that.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Exposed all the major nuclear sites off Iran in August
of two thousand and two, the nuclear site in natans
and Iraq, which actually triggered for the first time the
inspections of Iranian nuclear sites by the UN nuclear watchdog,
the IAEA that has continued ever since. Now, the new
information that we got that we just released was that
(03:16):
the Iran regime has been using the space program as
a camouflage to hide their very extensive nuclear weapons program
actually building nuclear warheads. They have been working on solid
fuel missiles with the range exceeding three thousand kilometers that
are being manufactured at two sites in Shahrud and Semnan
(03:40):
that they were known to be as missile sites, and
the regime always portrayed them as being the sites that
they're launching missiles for satellite to put in the orbit.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But in reality, we found out that.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
The top organization that is in charge of building nuclear weapons,
known as Organization for Advanced Defense Research or SAPAN spn D,
which we first exposed in twenty eleven and was later
confirmed by the IEA and designated by the US government.
That organization is all over these two sites in Semnon
(04:18):
and Shaharud, and they are covering the building of nuclear
warheads under the cover of launching a space program. Let
me tell you this, Speacare you know the nuclear program
of the Round regime has never been a peaceful one.
It was always since day one, it was meant to
build the nuclear bomb for the Iran regime. And that
(04:40):
process has continued. And I remember in two thousand and
two when we first exposed in Washington the nuclear size
in the Tanzan Iraq. I mean, that was an opportunity
for the outside world to stop that program, but unfortunately
they went the other direction.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
They went to a piece of regime.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
They giving them concessions and down and negotiating, and they
basically legitimize the program. And this is where we are
twenty four years later, that the regime is really very
close to building the bomb.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Why do you think some people in the West talk
themselves again and again into believing that you can trust
the dictatorship. What do you think is the underlying rationale?
Why do they do that?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, it could be a number of factors. That definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I don't think they really understand the nature of this regime.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
That this regime is built on. Destruction is built on
basically two pillars.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
One is external, which is building nuclear weapons, the missile program,
their terror operations, their proxy groups, their drone program, all
of that. And then internally they're relying on repression, killing
their own opponents, killing any voices of descent. That's how
they operate and that's how they speak with the outside world.
(05:58):
This is not a rational regime that you can sit
down and negotiate and say, Okay, we give you this,
you give us that. No, this regime is ideology. It's
a reson death is based on those pillars that I mentioned.
So that's why if you sit down with the Iatolas,
you're going to end up legitimizing their terror operations.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You end up giving them the chance.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
This regime has taken hostages since the eighties, and they
got into negotiation with the outside role to give them
money and resources in exchange for returning hostages, only to
take a few more. So, the West actually allowed the
regime to make the hostage taking a very profitable business
and put yourself in the shoes of the Iatolas. You know,
(06:41):
why would they give up hostage taking if it brings
them revenue. That's why I think the outside world were
always wrong in just looking at Iran through the prism
of the regime itself, as though Iran is only about
the Iatolas. No, the vast majority of the people of
Iran are posed to this regime.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
There is an alternative. There is an organized.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Force trying to bring down the Iatolas and establish democracy
and freedom in the country. And because they were so
fixated in them reaching out to the Molas, they had
to close their eyes to the opposition. And not only that,
the number one demand of the run regime from their counterparts,
whether the United States or Europe, was to harm the opposition.
(07:28):
You fould the designation yourself. In nineteen ninety seven, that
was during the Clinton administation. They designated the very same
movement that exposed all the major movisides of around. They
designated that as an FTO Foreign terrorist organization. It took
fifteen years for this movement to fight the designation, get
Congress on his site, go through the courts and fight
(07:49):
that designation and get off in twenty twelve. Why would
anyone want to harm those who are actual freedom fighters
who are fighting your enemy.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So it's based on really this.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Wrong perception that you're going to get something out of
these molas. And I think after five decades, now is
the time for the world to understand that the head
of the snake of war and terror lies in Tehran
and the only way left for ending that terror is
to crush the head of the snake. And of course
that's the responsibility of the people of Iran.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
And we will do it.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
The outside world they just need to understand it and
recognize the legitimacy of those who are fighting to bring
change in Iran.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Ayatola Committee recently went on national television and said, when
we say death to America, this is not a slogan,
this is a policy. And then recently he said, in
the sweech, negotiations with America do not solve any of
our problems. I mean, given that, what do you think
(08:52):
the impact will be of President Trump, who signed a
National Security Presidential Memorandum on February fifth, which says, quote,
restoring maximum pressure on the government of the Islamic Republic
of Iran, denying around all paths to a nuclear weapon
encountering Iran's malign influence abroad. What do you expect from
(09:14):
the Trump administration given that presidential memorandum.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Well, certainly this is a big change taker, you know,
in terms of policy, because this is the last thing
that the Aretolos ever wanted. They wanted to have the
ability to sell their oil and get all the revenue
that they need so that they can fund their terror groups.
They can increase the funding for the suppression of the population,
(09:39):
and actually by legitimacy, by that when the maximum pressure
policy is reinstated, that's a huge plus for the people
and against the regime. But we need to understand that
the situation now is very different than eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
This regime is highly vulnerable now.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
There is a very serious opportunity to not just counter
the threat or limit the threat, or limit the ability
of the Iran regip with the maximum Pressure policy brings,
but also empower those on the ground who want to
bring about change.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You want to end the threat for once and for all.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I mean, you don't want to punt it, you don't
want to just delay it.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You want to end it.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
The world shouldn't live in a coexistence with the epicenter
of terror and chaos in the region and the people
of Iran have long rejected that. So here's an opportunity
without you know, boots on the ground, without even appropriating money,
none of that, to build pressure on the Iran regime,
but also at the same time create space for those
(10:44):
on the ground who are already fighting the regime to
bring about change. And it's so important when I say
on the ground, because you know, it's one thing to
have critics and just talk about the problem of the
Round regime. It's another thing to actually bring it down.
Remember in Syria, Asset, you know, the whole world was
against it, but at the end of the day, it
(11:06):
took those on the ground to push back the forces
of Asset and bring down the Asset regime that probably
had one of the best equipped armies in the whole region.
But yet you know, when the support from the outside
was diminished, their pillars were weakened. That was the opportunity
for forces on the crown, and that's exactly what the
(11:27):
Rain Resistance has been trying to do. There have been
nine rounds of major uprisings in Iran in all thirty
one provinces. People seek change, and at the forefront of
that has been you know the resistance units of the
MK These are mostly young people who have been fighting
the revolution guards, trying to target them and break down
(11:49):
this aura of invincibility of the regime, to show the
people that this regime is not ten feet tall, that
you can actually bring it down. That's where the investment
should be. And that's exactly the opposite of what the
regime wants to do. The regime is doing a huge
amount of propaganda and demonization campaign against this very same
(12:09):
movement that is trying to overthrow them, and you're calling them,
called that, oh, they have no support, they're terrorists, or
this and that, and that's of course what you expect from.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
The Iran regime. Right now, there's a court.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Set up by the Iran regime putting the leaders of
this movement in absentia on trial, trying to create some
kind of illegal precedence and use it against the Western nations,
but also use that as propaganda to fend off the
support of the youth in Iran for this movement. You
need to counter that, and I think this is the
(12:42):
opportunity and that's why Congress has always been since the
time you were in speaker, on our side and there's
a very bipartisan support in the House and the Senate
for this movement for missus Rajavi and her ten point
plan that has a very clear platform for the future
of Iran, that says Iran has to be rule based
(13:02):
on the ballot box, not you know, legitimacy coming from
the Iatollahs which they say they get it from God,
or if you have a better gene which was under
the Shaw's dictatorship, the monarchy that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Didn't rule based on ballot box.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
That needs to end. It has to be based on
suppression of religion and state. It has to be based
on gender equality, free market economy. Piece in the Mid
East and the non nuclear republic Iran, that's the platform
that is gaining momentum in the House and the Senate,
but also in Europe, and that's where you want to focus.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Israel Defense Minister Israel Cats warned of potential strikes on
Iran's nuclear facility. What are your thoughts on the possibility
of military action? How would that impact both Iran, Israel
and the broader Middle East.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
This is not a new issue.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
This issue has been going on for years and people
are thinking, Okay, what's the solution to the nuclear threat
of the Irano regime. But I think especially since October
of twenty twenty three, the world has realized that the
threat of the Iran regym is not just limited to
their nuclear weapons program.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Look what they're doing with their.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Proxies and how they're the epicenter of war and terror
in the region.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
People.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I'm sure they're thinking about band aid solutions, you know,
temporary solutions here and there.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
But you know, at the end of the day.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
What is the world going to do with the threat
of the Irano regime. The only really viable alternative Volleybood
solution to end the threat is to end the rule
of the clerics, and of course, as I said, that's
the responsibility of the people of Iran.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
No outside world can actually do that.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, Iran is a huge country with ninety million population,
so the role of the organized resistance on the ground
is absolutely crucial. So I would suggest everyone should be
focusing on those forces on the ground, those who have
been fighting the regime. They are the real future of Iran,
that future based on the vote of the population as
(15:25):
sovereign nation that by the way, wants peace in the
Middle East, unlike the Iatolas who say push the Jews
to the sea. This movement have been favoring peace since
day one. So I would suggest everyone, whether you know,
countries in Europe, countries in the region, in the United States,
everyone to focus on how to empower those who are
(15:48):
fighting the regime, but at the same time deprive the
Iran regime from the resources, from the funding. You definitely
need to snap back all the sanctions on the Iran regime.
You need to affility to deny them the resources. But
at the same time you want to create space for
those on the ground to recognize the legitimacy of their
(16:10):
fighting against the run regime. That's the real solution that
once for all would read the whole Middle East of
the epicenter of terror and chaos and think about it, speaker,
you know what an impact a free democratic republic Iran
would have, not just in the region, but the whole world.
(16:30):
It will change the face of everything. And that's the
prospect we should be looking.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
At, you know, saying with a model in a way,
is what just happened in Syria. Everybody sort of thought
the Syrian dictatorship was stable, aside was stable, and then boom,
the whole thing collapsed almost overnight. Do you think it's
possible that the religious dictatorship could in fact collapse at
(16:56):
some point.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Well, definitely.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think you brought up a great example speaker about Syria,
and everyone did think.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That you know their staple.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
And remember they ran a regime had heavily invested on Syria.
They had as many as one hundred thousand of their proxies,
including Hezbollah and others in Syria. They spent at least
fifty billion dollars in keeping acid in power. Comedy spent
all of the resources on Syria. He overtly said that
(17:27):
if we lose Syria, we will lose Tehran.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And he met twice with Putting.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Comedy did in November twenty fifteen and March twenty sixteen,
specifically on keeping.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Aside in Power. Awesome.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Solemani, the terror Master, regularly traveled to Syria. He actually
met with Assad but also met with Putting trying to
get Russia involved. And in December twenty sixteen, after about
five years of fighting, they took back the strategic city
of Aleppo. Now, as you said, within eleven days, the
(18:02):
whole thing collapsed, And that's an important thing because Syria
wasn't just Syria. It was the strongest ally of the
Iran regime. They had done everything to keep it in power,
and they seem to be, you know, stable, and suddenly
this is the situation. I think this is the new
reality of the region. And that reality is definitely on
(18:23):
the mind of Comedy and the leaders of the Iran regime,
but also has its own impact among the population. The
reading people are saying that, you know it, Alas always
considered Syria as what they described as a strategic depth
of the regime.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay, that strategic depth is gone. We now have the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
These dictators they all seem very invincible until they fall.
Remember the shot that you know, he had all the
military mighty.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
It was so arrogant that, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
He dissolved all the political parties and said, okay, there's
a single party.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It's my party. You're either a member of it or
you go to jail.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He had the Savaki, you know, he seemed to control
everything until the population got it and through a major revolution,
brought down that dictatorship. The same situation is with these iatolas.
They don't have the support of their people. They have
lost the clouds and the power of their proxies. And
now is the opportunity if the world really focuses on
(19:22):
the regime and the threat of the Iran regime. I
have no doubt whatsoever that this regime will be brought
down by the people of Iran. This regime has never
been so weak and the organized resistance has never been
this powerful.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
You're a major figure in the National Council of Resistance
of Iran, and I have long supported the work of
your organization. But I'm curious for Americans, what do you
consider to be the most significant achievements of the Council
in advancing the cause of a free and democratic aram.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
The Council since nineteen eighty one actually introduced an alternative
to the Iran regime. At the time that everyone was
searching for mothers within the regime, they said no, this
regime must go in its entirety. They offered a platform
that eventually was highlighted the ten point Platform for the
Future of Iran. They address every single important issue related
(20:18):
to Iran, whether it's the issue of the nationalities in Iran,
the issue of women, the issue of religion. You know,
Iran is predominantly Muslim, but they said no, it has
to be a secular government, separation of religion and state.
They didn't just talk about these issues. They didn't talk
about women equality. They implemented it in the Council itself.
(20:41):
You know, the majority of the members of the Parliament
in exile and the leadership of women they talked about
and they ratified platforms and plans for that. But also
they have been extremely active in undermining the regime. We
just talked about the nuclear program of the Iran regime.
The world didn't know anything about the nuclear weapons program
(21:03):
of Iran until you know, this movement brought to the
attention of the world. The IA inspections were triggered by
this movement and they have continued to do that. The
missile program of the Iran regime was exposed by this movement.
Their terror operations, what they were doing in Iraq and
elsewhere were exposed by this movement. But most importantly, they
(21:23):
are the engine for change in Iran. They offer an
alternative and they are in the forefront of fighting the regime.
You know, since nineteen eighty, one hundred twenty thousand members
and supporters of this movement have been killed by the
Iran regime for political griefs. You know, in summer of
nineteen eighty eight, Commedy, you know, the predecessor to Comedy,
(21:44):
issued a fatfa, a religious decree condemning to death every
single member of the EMYKB, which is part of the NCRI,
because they were modern, democratic, secular Muslims opposing the ideology
of Islamic fundation, mentalism of the Ietolos. And they killed
as man as thirty thousand political prisoners in someone of
(22:05):
eighty eight within a matter of a few weeks, hoping
that this will end any kind of opposition in Iran.
And yet now you can see the children and the
grandchildren of those who were killed in nineteen eighty eight
in the streets of Tehran and all the thirty one
provinces of Iran continuing the engine for change. The most important,
(22:25):
I think accomplishment of this movement has been continued fighting
force against the regime, not just talking about change, but
affecting change on the ground, having that network inside Iran.
Just within one year, the regime arrested three thousand, seven
hundred members and supporters of the resistance units of the
(22:47):
MEK inside Iran or kill them or they went missing.
But the good news is that more have been added
to it, and they're more powerful than ever. So I
think that's a huge accomplishment, not only to expose the
nature of the regime but also fighting it offering an
alternative so that the rest of the world wouldn't have
(23:09):
to go to war or do anything like that. Rather,
there is this genuine alternative on the ground that seeks
no money or no boots on the ground and wants
to bring about change in Iran and has a platform
that benefits the whole world. That's why it has a
support of some four thousand parliamentarians around the world in
Europe and everywhere else, but also the majority of the
(23:32):
House here and has been really a big galvanizing force
outside of Iran as well. In addition to inside the
Raley you mentioned speaker in Paris that thousands came in
Europe telling the Europeans that you need to pursue a
firm policy to.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
God in Iran.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
But also they're coming here in Washington March eighth. This
coming March eighth, in Washington, there's going to be thousands
coming calling for firm policy on Iran.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This month is the forty sixth anniversary of the fall
of the Shaw's dictatorship in nineteen seventy nine, and certainly
things evolved differently than people thought they would. Could you
talk first of all about what happened right after that
and how we went from the notion of a collective,
(24:35):
more open society to a religious theocratic dictatorship, and that
brief period was just amazing how rapidly it changed.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I was in Iranity early days after the revolution.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I could see how the fall of the dictatorship had
created a tremendous opportunity for people, the freedom, the mood
of the population. But you could actually, at the same
time see how rapidly the Molas, who by the way,
came out of nowhere, stole the leadership of a genuine revolution.
You know, when the uprising started, the Molas had pretty
(25:10):
much no role in it. Romeni himself was in exile
in Iraq until four months before the fall.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Of the show.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know, the uprisings were all over the different cities,
in the different provinces in Iran. That's when Romeni saw
the opportunity, smelled the opportunity. He moved from Iraq to
near Paris in Nowfelo Chateau in October seventy eight and
in February he was in Tehran and he stole the
leadership of revolution. Why because the Shaw had eliminated the
(25:44):
nationalist forces. He had put in jail the intellectuals, anyone
who was intellectual, who was secular, he killed them. Samak
was running the show, but he kept the mosque intact.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
The Masks were not affected by the show.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
To the country. He actually helped the mosque in different
cities because they were praising the Shaw. All these clerics
would get down the stage and just say how great
the Shaw was. And Shaw was selling them the support
for the Molas to the West, saying, Okay, these Molas
are against communism. That's why I'm empowering them. I'm getting
rid of intellectuals because you know, he described them as
(26:22):
Islamic Marxists and all of that nonsense. When the opportunity came,
the only network that was intact that could take advantage
of the situation was the clerics. And even though this
revolution was not about establishing Islamic extremist ideology, but that
created an opportunity and they stole it. In the first
two years after the revolution, they put in jail intellectuals,
(26:45):
the Molas and tried to dominate power, rallying people under
the cover of anti Americanism. They targeted people like to
em Kate that folt against the Shaw as well. Their
leaders were executed by the Shop, but they became the
primary target of the Mullus. That's why I think what
we have seen a clear deviation of a genuine revolution
(27:09):
that was meant for democracy, that ended up in theocracy.
And I'm sure there are people remnants of the Shaw's dictatorship,
but also the regime itself are trying to prop up
the remnants of the dictators of the Shaw, saying, oh, look,
you know the Shaw was better than the Mullus, that
he killed less people, and just trying to create a comparison,
(27:30):
whereas a comparison is not like that.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
It should be between freedom and dictatorship.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
And that's why the regime has an interest in propping
up the remnants of the dictatorship so that the outside
world would not look at the real alternative, which is democracy.
The alternative to this regime is not to go backwards
to dictatorship of a monarchy, but rather to freedom, political prurism,
(27:56):
gender equality and all of that and That's why I
think for six years later, the desire of the people
is still alive for freedom in Iran.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Now they are more experienced.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
They have seen both the dictatorship of the Shaw but
also the theocracy of the Mollahs, and that's why the
only choice left for the people is freedom and political
cruralism and a republic form of a government.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
If you had to rank them, which has been more
anti human rights and oppressive, the Shaw or the Iatolus.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Well, you know these were different eras.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
The Shaw did the most he could do under the circumstances,
because you know, he was an ally of the United States.
There were certain limitations that he couldn't do at the time.
I think he did the most he could at the
time to put people in jail, and the Sabak was
created under the Shaw. Evan prison, which is the most
notorious prison right now in Iran was built under the Shaw.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And he did everything he could, but that was the limit.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Now, when the Mullas came to power, it was a
whole new circumstances because Romeni was using religion as a cover.
He was building in a network trying to transform the
benign Islamic groups in the region into very fanatic anti
American extremist groups. That's what they did, you know, from
(29:16):
Algeria to Lebanon, look at Syria, look at Iraq, how
they try to take advantage and so of course under
that situation, it gives the Malas more leverage to kill
more people. There were definitely more people killed under the Diatolas,
creating these proxy groups around the world and inventing new
ways of torture, even though the shots different ways of torturing.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
But the Molas just basically surpassed that.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And that's why I think it's an opportunity for the
people of Iran to abandon their past and look for
the future. But also it's an opportunity for the West
because they have experienced both the Shaw's dictatorship and also
the current theocracy. And the answer is really a democratic,
free republic Iran, and what an impact it would have
(30:04):
for the whole world.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
All Rasa, I want to thank you for joining me in.
I've known you a good well now and I know
how consistently you and the National Council of Resistance of
Iran have worked to create a free, independent Iran that
would be beyond the show, beyond the Iatolas be an
integrated part of the world in a positive way that
(30:27):
would look out and would offer the people of Iran
a dramatically better future. We're going to have on our
show page your website at ncrdash Iran dot org. Your
website is a daily Iran news and brief which I
recommend to people as a quick look at what is
happening each day in Iran. And I want to thank
you for taking the time today to help educate our listeners.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You know, I've known you for decades and you have
been very consistent yourself in highlighting the threat but also
high lighting the solution because it may be easier to
highlight the threat, but a lot more difficult to highlight
the solution.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
But it also takes a lot of courage, and that's
what you had.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I've known you the same way when you were in
the house and after that, and really appreciate what you're
doing with these shows in spreading the world, educating everybody
and pointing everyone to the right direction. And I'm very
hopeful that Iran will soon be free, and we'll invite
you and everybody else to come and see free and
democratic Republic Iran.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
It would be fabulous to be able to spend next
year in Tehran.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Absolutely looking forward. Speak here.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Thank you to my Guestresa Jefferzade. You can learn more
about the National Council Resistance of Iran on our show
page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by
Janush twenty sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Sloan.
Our researcher is Rachel Peterson for the show was created
(32:01):
by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at gager Street sixty.
If you've been enjoying newts World, I hope you'll go
to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars
and give us a review so others can learn what
it's all about. Right now listeners of Neutral concerner for
my three freeweekly columns at Gangerstreet sixty dot com slash newsletter.
(32:23):
I'm Newt Gingrich. This is neut World
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