September 21, 2025 • 28 mins
Newt talks with Congressman Pat Harrigan about his work in the U.S. House representing North Carolina’s tenth district. Harrigan discusses his journey from West Point to Afghanistan to serving in the United States House of Representatives. He shares insights into his first nine months in Congress, highlighting his unexpected influence as a freshman and his work on the House Armed Services Committee. He reflects on the impact of the Afghanistan troop withdrawal on his decision to enter politics. Harrigan criticizes the Biden administration's handling of international affairs, particularly the withdrawal from Afghanistan and its implications for global security. He emphasizes the importance of veteran representation in Congress and the need for fair trade practices to revitalize American manufacturing. Harrigan also discusses his efforts to support small businesses, and his legislative initiatives like the SkyFoundry Act to enhance U.S. drone production. He addresses national security concerns related to Chinese influence and advocates for the use of artificial intelligence to streamline military processes. Their conversation concludes with Harrigan warning against the dangers of political rhetoric and violence, urging a return to civil discourse.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of the News World. Congressman Pat Harrigan
is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at
West Point, a Green Beret, awarded two Bronze Stars for
his military service and recognition of his leadership and effectiveness
in combat. He served two deployments in Afghanistan. He's an
entrepreneur and business owner, and he proudly serves the United
(00:24):
States House Representatives as the congressman representing North Carolina's tenth district,
which includes parts of Winston, Salem, Statesville, and Hickory. Pat,
(00:47):
welcome and thank you for joining me in the News World.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mister Steaker, thank you for having me. Great to be
with you today.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I want to start with you were sworn into the
one hundred and nineteenth US Congress on January three, twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What are the first nine months of year ten You've
been like, It's actually been very fast paced. We've got
a lot of problems in this country, and I will
say that our leadership is very interested in layering solutions
against those problems, and so I've had a really terrific
time up here, particularly as we used the first six
months or so actually getting the reconciliation package across the
(01:22):
finish line. And I'll say the thing that really most
surprised me through that process is that I had a
lot more influence on the process than I thought that
I would as a freshman. It was really surprising to
me something that has been really fulfilling. And we've just
been able to through our committee work on House Armed
Services Committee as well as Science, Space and Technology, I
(01:45):
think really moved the ball forward on not just our
national defense but also the future technologies that are going
to predicate our market economy. It's been a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I think you have an amazing background. You attended Francis
Parker School in San Diego, You went to West Point,
You Bachelor of Science and Nuclear Engineering. What was it
like to be a West Point Well?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I realized that as I did a semester at the
Air Force Academy my junior year as part of a
transfer program, that I probably picked the wrong institution. And
I say that in all jests, but the Air Force
Academy was a beautiful place, as West Point is. But
the Air Force is just a whole lot easier than
the Army being at West Point. As they say, it's
(02:28):
a great place to be from it's not a great
place to be, and that process of transforming you from somebody,
you know, a kid just coming out of high school
to somebody that is actually ready to step up and
lead the next generation of American soldiers, it really is
a trial, a lot of difficult and hard work, an
(02:48):
awful lot of discipline. I very much probably could have
enjoyed my four years and undergraduate studies very very differently,
but it was genuinely an incredible educationarticularly the education in
leadership that I received, and it set me up for
really what I've done the rest of my life. Wouldn't
be where I am today without it. There's no question
(03:08):
about that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
When you think back to it and you think about
your own experiences in combat in Afghanistan to what a
dere do we have to have for ground combat, A
very relentless training program that makes you a much different
leader than the person who first entered there as a pleab.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think there's no question the timeless words of
General Douglas macarth are as true as they were back then,
still ring true today. He says there is no substitute
for victory, and I think we have to understand that
both individually. As someone who's going to engage in combat
lead others in combat, their lives are going to be
(03:47):
dependent upon the quality of the decisions that you make,
the character by which you make those decisions, and then
the outcomes that are generated for the nation. It is
all about winning, period, and it takes a lot to
operly develop a leader of character who is capable of
winning on the battlefield the right way for our country
(04:07):
to secure those outcomes that the American people expect. And
so it's definitely an incredible institution.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You've said that the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan under President
Biden was a turning point that inspired you to run
for office. Can you take us back to August of
twenty twenty one and tell us, as a veteran who'd
been there, what did you feel like watching it unfold
and how did that lead you to run for Congress.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
As I watched Afghanistan crumble, I genuinely wept. I sat
in front of my computer, I think for two days
in the television and just was completely transfixed on what
was going on. And I think the part of it
for me that was very difficult to comprehend is how
we had a chief executive president, Joe Biden, as the
leader of our nation in the free world, who had
(04:56):
started his career watching Vietnam unfold. He was not responsible
for it at that time, but he was in politics,
and he saw exactly how devastating that was to the
purpose and cause of freedom around the world. And fifty
years later, having seemingly learned nothing from his experience in politics,
he actually allowed the exact same thing to happen as
(05:16):
the commander in chief of our country. And the thing
that really frustrated me more than anything else is that, Look,
there are certainly consequences from that type of weakness, from
generating those type of outcomes, But I think the greatest
consequence is when we are weak, it invites conflict. And
I genuinely believed that the way that we left Afghanistan
(05:37):
condemned the next generation of Americans to war, and I
think that we're dealing with that today. We see the
world is on fire. I've always said when America fails
to lead, the world burns, and the world is absolutely
burning right now. We're doing the very best that we
can to turn that temperature down of global conflict. But
the reality is one of the first things you learn
when you get into the military. The enemy gets a vote,
and they're voting, and they want to fight right now
(05:58):
because they sense weakness.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So what ex said, do you think putin watching Biden's
weakness and watching the disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan made it
more likely that he would invade Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It was a direct signal to him to go. He
knew we weren't going to do anything about it, and
actually President Biden went so far as to say that
we would. He actually showed our cards, and so we
didn't just prevent him from going into Ukraine. We actually
gave him a direct invitation to invade Ukraine. And that
to me is as close as you can get to
an unforgivable sin in this world.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I've noticed that you're part of the Four Country Caucus
along with other members who served in erect in Afghanistan.
I mean, how did that come about? That's a fascinating
way to organize people.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think you would agree, mister speaker, that our Congress
has operated much more effectively and cohesively in the past
than it does today. And I think a big reason
for that is we had a lot more veterans participating
in Congress in the years after World War Two, even
in the years after Vietnam, from the late forties all
the way up until about nineteen eighty, we had about
(07:08):
sixty to seventy percent of congress or veterans three cycles ago.
So six years ago that number had fallen to nine percent.
And I'm glad to report that because of very intentional
efforts by veterans, and I would say folks out there
American citizens who have been very supportive of getting more
veterans into Congress, that number is now back up to nineteen.
(07:30):
But we still have a long way to go. And
here's the really cool thing about veterans. We don't argue
about reality, and we also understand the consequences of decisions
that are made. We do not spend our time as
veterans arguing over whether the sky is green and the
grass is blue. That seemingly is the discussion that Republicans
and Democrats have today. That is not the discussion that
(07:51):
veterans have with one another. We clearly see reality.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I think in that sense, you bring a level of
realism to the Congress, which is very, very badly needed.
But you faced real challenges, not only in foreign affairs
and in military affairs. But this week marks the one
year anniversary of Hurricane Helen, which devastated huge parts of
western North Carolina. What's the current situation, how much have
(08:34):
they been able to rebuild, and what kind of funding
have you been able to advocate to get the rebuilding
done well.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We actually just had a meeting with the Governor of
North Carolina with all of the North Carolina delegation. Is
actually very productive meeting. The outcome of that is that
there's still a lot of work to do. I don't
think that that's a surprise to anybody. This storm, unfortunately,
as all natural disasters are, are generally a complete supper,
and it certainly was for western North Carolina. We had
(09:02):
never in this country experienced a storm of that magnitude
hit such a mountainous area and cause such significant devastation
in a particularly very difficult to provide aid in a
mountainous environment in the immediate aftermath of which I actually
spent the first week flying around the mountains and helping
evacuate people, bringing supplies out to people. Just a huge
(09:26):
tragedy for western North Carolina. But people stepped up. They
help their neighbors. Western North Carolina has done an absolutely
incredible job of picking themselves up and getting back on
their feet, and we need to make sure that government,
both at the federal level and at the state level,
because both have operated inefficiently and ineffectively, are actually getting
(09:49):
aid in support to those who need it most and
there are still folks who need it. The charter on
us is to not give up or not stop paying
attention because we're a year away from this. Order for
us is to finish the job, and we're intent on
doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Are you finding the federal government responsive. You know, they
make big commitments, but are they actually executing it and
getting the job done?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, I would say much more so under this current administration.
President Trump, he made very clear he was going to
fulfill his campaign promise to never ever forget about Western
North Carolina, and he has not. Whether it's the USDA, DHS,
or FEMA, HUD, Federal Highway Administration, or the EPA, all
of those different buckets of funding have been engaged in
(10:35):
pushing money down to North Carolina so that Western North
Carolina can recover. And that process has been made so
much more efficient and effective with the change of administration.
I am happy to report.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have to say I was a little surprised to
learn that when you left the military, you and your
wife built a firearms manufacturing company from the ground up
in western North Carolina. What do you manufacture?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Actually in weapons and munitions manufacturing, So we do a
number of components for larger firearms companies and their production lines.
We've got a line of our own weapons systems, and
then we also make different munitions. So we're kind of
in the entire sphere of the small arms apparatus. We
even have an optics manufacturing company too.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Can people find you on the web? They can.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The optics company is US Optics, and the firearms company
is called zero Delta and unbranded a.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Are That's great. What did you learn as a small
business owner in terms of dealing with the government and
what we need to do to maximize future economic growth.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Look, small business is the backbone of our economy here
in this country, There's no question about it. My wife
and I we started our business in a doubley trailer
outside of Fort Bragg. It was really just started as
a hobby and then it kind of turned into a business.
Heaw a federal firearms license. I would say the biggest
lesson that I learned is that our financial system discriminates
(11:58):
against folks that are trying to just exercise their Second
Amendment rights. You can't get a loan if you're in
the firearms business in this country, and that's absolutely fundamentally wrong.
It has to change. We're systematically discriminated against. That is
changing underneath this administration. President Trump has paid particular attention
to the concerns that we have in the Second Amendment community.
(12:20):
But look, the role of government is not to pick
winners and losers. It doesn't matter who you are, or
what you believe, or what line of work you're invested in.
The role of government is to set the conditions for
individuals to go out and find success. And unfortunately, the cards,
because of improper government intervention from the left, have been
(12:40):
stacked against those in the firearms industry. They've been stacked
against those in other industries. Certainly, we deal with this
in the energy sector right we're picking inefficient winners and
making efficient sources and methodologies of energy generation that can
stand on their own two feet. We're deprioritizing those. All
that stops right now, and we've just got to set
(13:03):
the conditions for American business to be successful. That's something
that I've dedicated myself to doing up here in Congress.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
It does seem to me that the bill you all
passed in July has a number of advantages for small
businesses to create more jobs and for Americans to have
more take on pay. Were you comfortable that those were
signals in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think that they were absolutely signals in the right direction.
I mean, if you're in that median income area for
family household making about eighty thousand dollars a year, you're
going to have ten thousand more dollars in your pocket
come this time next year. And that's because you're going
to find that all of the taxes that you paid,
whether it was taxes on tips, taxes on your overtime,
or if you're a senior in our communities, the tax
(13:46):
that you paid on Social Security, all of that is
coming back to you when you file your twenty twenty
five tax return in early twenty twenty six, plus, you're
not paying tax from July fourth of this year moving
forward into the future. I think that is absolutely fundamentally
a game changer for most average Americans and They're going
to see experientially that Republicans are actually here to help
(14:10):
them out, to make a difference in their families, to
take the massive pressure that President Biden's failed policies put
on them through inflation and poor policy, and actually put
money back in their pocket, not the government coming in
and taking more money out of it. I think it
was transformational for the middle class in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
One of the areas that I'm very familiar with, it's
in your district, is Hickory, which at one time was
the center of the furniture industry and had huge markets
and everything, and then I had really hurt because of
a number of unfair trade deals which allowed foreign countries
to undercut us. What do you think will be the
impact of Trump's use of tariffs to try it back
(14:50):
to a more fair playing field for American businesses like
the furniture manufacturing in Hickory.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, Hickory is big for furniture manufacturing and textiles, and
as you said, this was all gutted during the late
nineties during the transition into NAFTA. The concept of free trade.
There is no such thing as free trade. There is
only fair trade. Because we're dealing with countries that either
erect unfair trade barriers. They want all of the access
(15:17):
to the American market with no barriers to entry for them,
but they put up all of these artificial trade barriers
to prevent Americans from selling goods in their country. That
has to stop. Currency manipulation, has to stop the improper
subsidization of certain industries by other countries governments, which ultimately
doesn't create a level playing field for American companies. That
(15:40):
has to stop. President Trump has made it loud and clear,
it's got to stop. We want the exact same opportunities
afforded to American businesses that we have afforded to foreign businesses.
That's simply the definition of fair trade. And I think
when we get a trade system and change the methodology
of how we're going to interact with our market economies
(16:03):
on a global basis, and we actually achieve fair trade,
what we're going to see is we're going to see
manufacturing come back to the United States. And I've got
to say that's going to be a painful process because
it took twenty five years for us to get to
this point. We're not going to undo it overnight. But
President Trump has made some really incredible strides that have
(16:24):
set the conditions for American manufacturing to come back home.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
One of the things you've done to help accelerate that
is you've introduced the Sky Foundry Act to dramatically increase
America's drone production. Tell us about why you took this
on and what you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, one of the things that I've been talking about
on the House Armed Services Committee coming into office in
January is that we have a brand new threat that
we have not seen outside of the modern day battlefield
in Ukraine. This is something that is nothing that we've
experienced in the global War on Terror over the last
twenty five years, but that we have very inexpensive, yet
very capable drones that are now responsible for eighty percent
(17:19):
of the casualties on the modern day battlefield. It's not guns,
it's not artillery, it's not the things that we normally
produce in this country. We have become very very good
in our defense industrial base producing incredibly exquisite but very
expensive technologies, and we've got to understand that our adversaries,
when they build these inexpensive yet very capable technologies at scale,
(17:40):
it can overwhelm those low volume, very expensive technologies that
we manufacture here. Sky Foundry ends that threat for us.
It is the process by which we're going to make
the first million drones in this country, completely decoupled from
a Chinese supply chain. I actually just held the first
drone in my hands yesterday that was built with completely
(18:01):
American parts. The military across its industrial base is already
moving forward on this program. I'm incredibly excited to see
the potential that already exists, and they're already moving forward
with We're going to do some amazing things with this program.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I was very intrigued because recently I went to Los
Angeles and visited a factory called Divergent three D, which
is a perfect example of what we can do if
we're willing to go out and take the risk to
invest in a dramatically different future.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There's absolutely no question about that. And so we're going
to take about two and a half billion dollars worth
of reconciliation money, and we're going to sprinkle about a
billion and a half of that out to the private sector,
to companies like Divergent, and then we're going to focus
a billion dollars of that in the organic industrial base,
and we're going to do something a little bit different here,
mister Speaker, than has been done before. We're going to
(18:53):
create what we call a go go co government owned,
government operated contractor assisted mechanism to produce these drones. And
the way that this works is the government is going
to actually purchase the assets. We're going to invite the
private sector, dozens of private sector companies to come around
the assets that we put on the ground and actually
contribute their intellectual property and production prowess, and we're going
(19:16):
to pay a royalty based off the intellectual property that
they contribute into the system, the production capability that they
contribute into the system. And it's going to allow a
lot of these smaller companies that don't have access to
significant amounts of capital to come in utilize government infrastructure
but actually get paid a royalty based off the contribution
(19:36):
that they're making, which ultimately for these government contractors will
be bottom line dollars. We're going to hold all of
these contractors intention because they're going to continually be trying
to knock each other off with the latest and greatest
intellectual property, which keeps us on the cutting edge of technology.
But simultaneously they're held in cooperation because they all get
paid off of production volumes, and so I think it's
(19:56):
a really unique system. I'm excited to get it up
and off the ground, and I think a year from now,
we're going to be in a very different place from
our nation's defense with respect to small, first person view
drones and the ability to defend against those drones, which
is something our national security absolutely needs.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I'm delighted with your leadership on this because I'm convinced
we have to think in terms of these kind of
leap frogging past the Chinese, and I think this is
the kind of breakthrough that would really put us back
in a position to be remarkably more secure militarily. Now.
You've also raised real questions about the Chinese Communist Party's
(20:33):
effort to surround military bases and create situations which could
be very, very dangerous if we ever got to a
real fight with them. Talk a little bit about how
the Chinese Communists have been trying to basically infiltrate our systems,
and as I understand it, there's actually a Chinese commanist
(20:53):
party link company that actually is operating over eighty stores
on US military institations talk briefly about this whole problem.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Well, unfortunately, mister speaker, you're exactly right about all of that.
And I think everybody knows that we've been doing a
ton of work in Congress to try to figure out
how do we counter the threat of the Chinese Communist
Party from purchasing land around our military bases and using
that in ways that are reverse to our interests. Well,
while everybody's kind of looking immediately around our military basis,
(21:23):
I think everybody was overlooking where the Chinese Communist Party
is already operating on our military basis. And that's the thing.
We had a formally wholly owned American company GNC, the
supplement company that actually ended up selling out to the
Chinese Communist Party. Nobody paid attention to it. They were
already operating eighty five retail locations on our military installations.
(21:44):
And look, we all want to support a free market economy,
we also have to be concerned with our national security.
We want the people to be able to make decisions
with their company, whatever they might be. But we just
think it's a bridge too far to sell your company
to the Chinese Communist Party while you're operating on our
military basis and still have or expect continued access to
(22:05):
our military installations and our military personnel. There are unbelievable
threats that could come from this sort of arrangement. We
just think it's a bridge too far. We introduced the
Military Installation Retail Security Act of twenty twenty five. We
got it through the NBAA in the House, we're working
on getting that completed so that we can actually kick
this company off of our military basis. We should be
(22:28):
doing absolutely nothing less.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You've been very aggressive even trying to apply new solutions,
and one of the things which I'm fascinated with is
you've been pushing the Pentagon to adopt artificial intelligence tools
to streamline the approval process for military construction projects. I've
said for a good while now that if we reduce
the Pentagon to a triangle, we'd actually have a dramatically
(22:52):
better system because of bureaucracy. Is so great, talk just
for a minute about what you see as the potential
for artificial intelligence to dramatically reduce the paperwork, the bureaucracy,
and accelerate our ability to dynamically move in a rapidly
changing environment.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think we all see that none of the military
except for the Marine Corps can pass an audit. We
are years behind in some places. Within critical resourcing. We
have no idea what the depths and vulnerabilities that exist
in our supply chains, the extent to which those vulnerabilities exist.
All of this can be solved by artificial intelligence. When
(23:32):
you talk about military construction, there is and I think
most people don't understand this, from the time that you
say we need something and it gets authorized and appropriated
to the time that that building to the time that
soldiers or airmen or marine move into that building on
a military installation is seven years. That's absolute insanity. Our
adversaries are moving so much faster than this is because
(23:54):
we've created so much bureaucratic red tape and requirements. The
requirements that we placed on these projects are just absolutely insane.
It drives the cost through the roof. We're paying five
million dollars for a building that otta cost one point
two million, and we're getting it seven years in the future.
It's actually one of the reasons Sky Foundry is not
going to be coming to North Carolina right off the bat.
(24:14):
We don't have any infrastructure to support it there and
I can't build it outside of the MILCN process. It's
got to go to other states that have available infrastructure
that's not serving our national security properly. We have to
do a lot better than this.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You'll put your if any on one of the major
requirements for our survival, frankly, which is to cut through
all the obsolete red tape. All the obsolete requirements, a
number of which, to be fair, were caused by the Congress,
not by the Pentagon. You wrote an op ed after
the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a warning that the left
has abandoned persuasion and normalized violence against conservatives. Why do
(24:50):
you think that things have become so.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Dangerous because rhetoric has consequences. You can't call our side Nazis, fascists,
supporters of dictators effectively enemies of the state without understanding
that there is legitimate risk and liability that you motivate
somebody to violence. It's just happened far too long. I
was actually talking about this with Steve Scalise just two
(25:13):
days ago, and you know, as you know, Steve was
shot on a baseball field by a radical leftist. Steve
almost lost his life. He knows I've had my house,
one of my family homes shot at because of my
political campaign. We have to understand that MSNBC has called
President Donald Trump a fascist three thousand times in the
(25:35):
last four years. That's what I was talking to Steve about.
That has very real consequences. We saw a poll last
week that fifty five percent of liberals think it's partially
or fully justifiable for somebody to assassinate President Donald Trump.
The right does not think that way. We think that
all violence, no matter where it is, is unacceptable, and
(25:57):
particularly when it is you for political purposes. It's antithetical
to our constitution, everything that we stand for, it have
worked for in this country, and it will systematically if
it continues, destabilize this country to a dangerous point, not
just dangerous for individuals, but for all of us collectively
moving forward, the cohesion of our country. All of this
(26:20):
demonizing of our side has to stop.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Mister speaker, Pat I want to thank you for joining
me and let our listeners know they can find out
more about the work you're doing in the US House
by visiting your website at Harrigan dot House dot gov.
This has been a terrific conversation You are an amazing
hasset for the United States of America, and you're continuing
(26:45):
your patriotic work which began a West Point, went to Afghanistan,
and now on behalf of North Carolina is Reagan in Washington.
So thank you so much for talking with us.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We are doing the very best that we know how
to do for our constituents and for the future of
our country, and it was genuinely a pleasure being with
you today.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Thank you to my guests, Congressman Pat Harrigan. You learn
more about the work he's doing in Congress on our
show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtorld is produced by
Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan.
Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show
was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team
(27:27):
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(27:48):
This is newsworld
On this episode of the News World. Congressman Pat Harrigan
is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at
West Point, a Green Beret, awarded two Bronze Stars for
his military service and recognition of his leadership and effectiveness
in combat. He served two deployments in Afghanistan. He's an
entrepreneur and business owner, and he proudly serves the United
(00:24):
States House Representatives as the congressman representing North Carolina's tenth district,
which includes parts of Winston, Salem, Statesville, and Hickory. Pat,
(00:47):
welcome and thank you for joining me in the News World.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Mister Steaker, thank you for having me. Great to be
with you today.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I want to start with you were sworn into the
one hundred and nineteenth US Congress on January three, twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What are the first nine months of year ten You've
been like, It's actually been very fast paced. We've got
a lot of problems in this country, and I will
say that our leadership is very interested in layering solutions
against those problems, and so I've had a really terrific
time up here, particularly as we used the first six
months or so actually getting the reconciliation package across the
(01:22):
finish line. And I'll say the thing that really most
surprised me through that process is that I had a
lot more influence on the process than I thought that
I would as a freshman. It was really surprising to
me something that has been really fulfilling. And we've just
been able to through our committee work on House Armed
Services Committee as well as Science, Space and Technology, I
(01:45):
think really moved the ball forward on not just our
national defense but also the future technologies that are going
to predicate our market economy. It's been a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I think you have an amazing background. You attended Francis
Parker School in San Diego, You went to West Point,
You Bachelor of Science and Nuclear Engineering. What was it
like to be a West Point Well?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I realized that as I did a semester at the
Air Force Academy my junior year as part of a
transfer program, that I probably picked the wrong institution. And
I say that in all jests, but the Air Force
Academy was a beautiful place, as West Point is. But
the Air Force is just a whole lot easier than
the Army being at West Point. As they say, it's
(02:28):
a great place to be from it's not a great
place to be, and that process of transforming you from somebody,
you know, a kid just coming out of high school
to somebody that is actually ready to step up and
lead the next generation of American soldiers, it really is
a trial, a lot of difficult and hard work, an
(02:48):
awful lot of discipline. I very much probably could have
enjoyed my four years and undergraduate studies very very differently,
but it was genuinely an incredible educationarticularly the education in
leadership that I received, and it set me up for
really what I've done the rest of my life. Wouldn't
be where I am today without it. There's no question
(03:08):
about that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
When you think back to it and you think about
your own experiences in combat in Afghanistan to what a
dere do we have to have for ground combat, A
very relentless training program that makes you a much different
leader than the person who first entered there as a pleab.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, I think there's no question the timeless words of
General Douglas macarth are as true as they were back then,
still ring true today. He says there is no substitute
for victory, and I think we have to understand that
both individually. As someone who's going to engage in combat
lead others in combat, their lives are going to be
(03:47):
dependent upon the quality of the decisions that you make,
the character by which you make those decisions, and then
the outcomes that are generated for the nation. It is
all about winning, period, and it takes a lot to
operly develop a leader of character who is capable of
winning on the battlefield the right way for our country
(04:07):
to secure those outcomes that the American people expect. And
so it's definitely an incredible institution.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You've said that the troop withdrawal from Afghanistan under President
Biden was a turning point that inspired you to run
for office. Can you take us back to August of
twenty twenty one and tell us, as a veteran who'd
been there, what did you feel like watching it unfold
and how did that lead you to run for Congress.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
As I watched Afghanistan crumble, I genuinely wept. I sat
in front of my computer, I think for two days
in the television and just was completely transfixed on what
was going on. And I think the part of it
for me that was very difficult to comprehend is how
we had a chief executive president, Joe Biden, as the
leader of our nation in the free world, who had
(04:56):
started his career watching Vietnam unfold. He was not responsible
for it at that time, but he was in politics,
and he saw exactly how devastating that was to the
purpose and cause of freedom around the world. And fifty
years later, having seemingly learned nothing from his experience in politics,
he actually allowed the exact same thing to happen as
(05:16):
the commander in chief of our country. And the thing
that really frustrated me more than anything else is that, Look,
there are certainly consequences from that type of weakness, from
generating those type of outcomes, But I think the greatest
consequence is when we are weak, it invites conflict. And
I genuinely believed that the way that we left Afghanistan
(05:37):
condemned the next generation of Americans to war, and I
think that we're dealing with that today. We see the
world is on fire. I've always said when America fails
to lead, the world burns, and the world is absolutely
burning right now. We're doing the very best that we
can to turn that temperature down of global conflict. But
the reality is one of the first things you learn
when you get into the military. The enemy gets a vote,
and they're voting, and they want to fight right now
(05:58):
because they sense weakness.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So what ex said, do you think putin watching Biden's
weakness and watching the disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan made it
more likely that he would invade Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
It was a direct signal to him to go. He
knew we weren't going to do anything about it, and
actually President Biden went so far as to say that
we would. He actually showed our cards, and so we
didn't just prevent him from going into Ukraine. We actually
gave him a direct invitation to invade Ukraine. And that
to me is as close as you can get to
an unforgivable sin in this world.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I've noticed that you're part of the Four Country Caucus
along with other members who served in erect in Afghanistan.
I mean, how did that come about? That's a fascinating
way to organize people.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think you would agree, mister speaker, that our Congress
has operated much more effectively and cohesively in the past
than it does today. And I think a big reason
for that is we had a lot more veterans participating
in Congress in the years after World War Two, even
in the years after Vietnam, from the late forties all
the way up until about nineteen eighty, we had about
(07:08):
sixty to seventy percent of congress or veterans three cycles ago.
So six years ago that number had fallen to nine percent.
And I'm glad to report that because of very intentional
efforts by veterans, and I would say folks out there
American citizens who have been very supportive of getting more
veterans into Congress, that number is now back up to nineteen.
(07:30):
But we still have a long way to go. And
here's the really cool thing about veterans. We don't argue
about reality, and we also understand the consequences of decisions
that are made. We do not spend our time as
veterans arguing over whether the sky is green and the
grass is blue. That seemingly is the discussion that Republicans
and Democrats have today. That is not the discussion that
(07:51):
veterans have with one another. We clearly see reality.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I think in that sense, you bring a level of
realism to the Congress, which is very, very badly needed.
But you faced real challenges, not only in foreign affairs
and in military affairs. But this week marks the one
year anniversary of Hurricane Helen, which devastated huge parts of
western North Carolina. What's the current situation, how much have
(08:34):
they been able to rebuild, and what kind of funding
have you been able to advocate to get the rebuilding
done well.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
We actually just had a meeting with the Governor of
North Carolina with all of the North Carolina delegation. Is
actually very productive meeting. The outcome of that is that
there's still a lot of work to do. I don't
think that that's a surprise to anybody. This storm, unfortunately,
as all natural disasters are, are generally a complete supper,
and it certainly was for western North Carolina. We had
(09:02):
never in this country experienced a storm of that magnitude
hit such a mountainous area and cause such significant devastation
in a particularly very difficult to provide aid in a
mountainous environment in the immediate aftermath of which I actually
spent the first week flying around the mountains and helping
evacuate people, bringing supplies out to people. Just a huge
(09:26):
tragedy for western North Carolina. But people stepped up. They
help their neighbors. Western North Carolina has done an absolutely
incredible job of picking themselves up and getting back on
their feet, and we need to make sure that government,
both at the federal level and at the state level,
because both have operated inefficiently and ineffectively, are actually getting
(09:49):
aid in support to those who need it most and
there are still folks who need it. The charter on
us is to not give up or not stop paying
attention because we're a year away from this. Order for
us is to finish the job, and we're intent on
doing that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Are you finding the federal government responsive. You know, they
make big commitments, but are they actually executing it and
getting the job done?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, I would say much more so under this current administration.
President Trump, he made very clear he was going to
fulfill his campaign promise to never ever forget about Western
North Carolina, and he has not. Whether it's the USDA, DHS,
or FEMA, HUD, Federal Highway Administration, or the EPA, all
of those different buckets of funding have been engaged in
(10:35):
pushing money down to North Carolina so that Western North
Carolina can recover. And that process has been made so
much more efficient and effective with the change of administration.
I am happy to report.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have to say I was a little surprised to
learn that when you left the military, you and your
wife built a firearms manufacturing company from the ground up
in western North Carolina. What do you manufacture?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Actually in weapons and munitions manufacturing, So we do a
number of components for larger firearms companies and their production lines.
We've got a line of our own weapons systems, and
then we also make different munitions. So we're kind of
in the entire sphere of the small arms apparatus. We
even have an optics manufacturing company too.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Can people find you on the web? They can.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The optics company is US Optics, and the firearms company
is called zero Delta and unbranded a.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Are That's great. What did you learn as a small
business owner in terms of dealing with the government and
what we need to do to maximize future economic growth.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Look, small business is the backbone of our economy here
in this country, There's no question about it. My wife
and I we started our business in a doubley trailer
outside of Fort Bragg. It was really just started as
a hobby and then it kind of turned into a business.
Heaw a federal firearms license. I would say the biggest
lesson that I learned is that our financial system discriminates
(11:58):
against folks that are trying to just exercise their Second
Amendment rights. You can't get a loan if you're in
the firearms business in this country, and that's absolutely fundamentally wrong.
It has to change. We're systematically discriminated against. That is
changing underneath this administration. President Trump has paid particular attention
to the concerns that we have in the Second Amendment community.
(12:20):
But look, the role of government is not to pick
winners and losers. It doesn't matter who you are, or
what you believe, or what line of work you're invested in.
The role of government is to set the conditions for
individuals to go out and find success. And unfortunately, the cards,
because of improper government intervention from the left, have been
(12:40):
stacked against those in the firearms industry. They've been stacked
against those in other industries. Certainly, we deal with this
in the energy sector right we're picking inefficient winners and
making efficient sources and methodologies of energy generation that can
stand on their own two feet. We're deprioritizing those. All
that stops right now, and we've just got to set
(13:03):
the conditions for American business to be successful. That's something
that I've dedicated myself to doing up here in Congress.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
It does seem to me that the bill you all
passed in July has a number of advantages for small
businesses to create more jobs and for Americans to have
more take on pay. Were you comfortable that those were
signals in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I think that they were absolutely signals in the right direction.
I mean, if you're in that median income area for
family household making about eighty thousand dollars a year, you're
going to have ten thousand more dollars in your pocket
come this time next year. And that's because you're going
to find that all of the taxes that you paid,
whether it was taxes on tips, taxes on your overtime,
or if you're a senior in our communities, the tax
(13:46):
that you paid on Social Security, all of that is
coming back to you when you file your twenty twenty
five tax return in early twenty twenty six, plus, you're
not paying tax from July fourth of this year moving
forward into the future. I think that is absolutely fundamentally
a game changer for most average Americans and They're going
to see experientially that Republicans are actually here to help
(14:10):
them out, to make a difference in their families, to
take the massive pressure that President Biden's failed policies put
on them through inflation and poor policy, and actually put
money back in their pocket, not the government coming in
and taking more money out of it. I think it
was transformational for the middle class in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
One of the areas that I'm very familiar with, it's
in your district, is Hickory, which at one time was
the center of the furniture industry and had huge markets
and everything, and then I had really hurt because of
a number of unfair trade deals which allowed foreign countries
to undercut us. What do you think will be the
impact of Trump's use of tariffs to try it back
(14:50):
to a more fair playing field for American businesses like
the furniture manufacturing in Hickory.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, Hickory is big for furniture manufacturing and textiles, and
as you said, this was all gutted during the late
nineties during the transition into NAFTA. The concept of free trade.
There is no such thing as free trade. There is
only fair trade. Because we're dealing with countries that either
erect unfair trade barriers. They want all of the access
(15:17):
to the American market with no barriers to entry for them,
but they put up all of these artificial trade barriers
to prevent Americans from selling goods in their country. That
has to stop. Currency manipulation, has to stop the improper
subsidization of certain industries by other countries governments, which ultimately
doesn't create a level playing field for American companies. That
(15:40):
has to stop. President Trump has made it loud and clear,
it's got to stop. We want the exact same opportunities
afforded to American businesses that we have afforded to foreign businesses.
That's simply the definition of fair trade. And I think
when we get a trade system and change the methodology
of how we're going to interact with our market economies
(16:03):
on a global basis, and we actually achieve fair trade,
what we're going to see is we're going to see
manufacturing come back to the United States. And I've got
to say that's going to be a painful process because
it took twenty five years for us to get to
this point. We're not going to undo it overnight. But
President Trump has made some really incredible strides that have
(16:24):
set the conditions for American manufacturing to come back home.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
One of the things you've done to help accelerate that
is you've introduced the Sky Foundry Act to dramatically increase
America's drone production. Tell us about why you took this
on and what you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, one of the things that I've been talking about
on the House Armed Services Committee coming into office in
January is that we have a brand new threat that
we have not seen outside of the modern day battlefield
in Ukraine. This is something that is nothing that we've
experienced in the global War on Terror over the last
twenty five years, but that we have very inexpensive, yet
very capable drones that are now responsible for eighty percent
(17:19):
of the casualties on the modern day battlefield. It's not guns,
it's not artillery, it's not the things that we normally
produce in this country. We have become very very good
in our defense industrial base producing incredibly exquisite but very
expensive technologies, and we've got to understand that our adversaries,
when they build these inexpensive yet very capable technologies at scale,
(17:40):
it can overwhelm those low volume, very expensive technologies that
we manufacture here. Sky Foundry ends that threat for us.
It is the process by which we're going to make
the first million drones in this country, completely decoupled from
a Chinese supply chain. I actually just held the first
drone in my hands yesterday that was built with completely
(18:01):
American parts. The military across its industrial base is already
moving forward on this program. I'm incredibly excited to see
the potential that already exists, and they're already moving forward
with We're going to do some amazing things with this program.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I was very intrigued because recently I went to Los
Angeles and visited a factory called Divergent three D, which
is a perfect example of what we can do if
we're willing to go out and take the risk to
invest in a dramatically different future.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There's absolutely no question about that. And so we're going
to take about two and a half billion dollars worth
of reconciliation money, and we're going to sprinkle about a
billion and a half of that out to the private sector,
to companies like Divergent, and then we're going to focus
a billion dollars of that in the organic industrial base,
and we're going to do something a little bit different here,
mister Speaker, than has been done before. We're going to
(18:53):
create what we call a go go co government owned,
government operated contractor assisted mechanism to produce these drones. And
the way that this works is the government is going
to actually purchase the assets. We're going to invite the
private sector, dozens of private sector companies to come around
the assets that we put on the ground and actually
contribute their intellectual property and production prowess, and we're going
(19:16):
to pay a royalty based off the intellectual property that
they contribute into the system, the production capability that they
contribute into the system. And it's going to allow a
lot of these smaller companies that don't have access to
significant amounts of capital to come in utilize government infrastructure
but actually get paid a royalty based off the contribution
(19:36):
that they're making, which ultimately for these government contractors will
be bottom line dollars. We're going to hold all of
these contractors intention because they're going to continually be trying
to knock each other off with the latest and greatest
intellectual property, which keeps us on the cutting edge of technology.
But simultaneously they're held in cooperation because they all get
paid off of production volumes, and so I think it's
(19:56):
a really unique system. I'm excited to get it up
and off the ground, and I think a year from now,
we're going to be in a very different place from
our nation's defense with respect to small, first person view
drones and the ability to defend against those drones, which
is something our national security absolutely needs.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I'm delighted with your leadership on this because I'm convinced
we have to think in terms of these kind of
leap frogging past the Chinese, and I think this is
the kind of breakthrough that would really put us back
in a position to be remarkably more secure militarily. Now.
You've also raised real questions about the Chinese Communist Party's
(20:33):
effort to surround military bases and create situations which could
be very, very dangerous if we ever got to a
real fight with them. Talk a little bit about how
the Chinese Communists have been trying to basically infiltrate our systems,
and as I understand it, there's actually a Chinese commanist
(20:53):
party link company that actually is operating over eighty stores
on US military institations talk briefly about this whole problem.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Well, unfortunately, mister speaker, you're exactly right about all of that.
And I think everybody knows that we've been doing a
ton of work in Congress to try to figure out
how do we counter the threat of the Chinese Communist
Party from purchasing land around our military bases and using
that in ways that are reverse to our interests. Well,
while everybody's kind of looking immediately around our military basis,
(21:23):
I think everybody was overlooking where the Chinese Communist Party
is already operating on our military basis. And that's the thing.
We had a formally wholly owned American company GNC, the
supplement company that actually ended up selling out to the
Chinese Communist Party. Nobody paid attention to it. They were
already operating eighty five retail locations on our military installations.
(21:44):
And look, we all want to support a free market economy,
we also have to be concerned with our national security.
We want the people to be able to make decisions
with their company, whatever they might be. But we just
think it's a bridge too far to sell your company
to the Chinese Communist Party while you're operating on our
military basis and still have or expect continued access to
(22:05):
our military installations and our military personnel. There are unbelievable
threats that could come from this sort of arrangement. We
just think it's a bridge too far. We introduced the
Military Installation Retail Security Act of twenty twenty five. We
got it through the NBAA in the House, we're working
on getting that completed so that we can actually kick
this company off of our military basis. We should be
(22:28):
doing absolutely nothing less.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You've been very aggressive even trying to apply new solutions,
and one of the things which I'm fascinated with is
you've been pushing the Pentagon to adopt artificial intelligence tools
to streamline the approval process for military construction projects. I've
said for a good while now that if we reduce
the Pentagon to a triangle, we'd actually have a dramatically
(22:52):
better system because of bureaucracy. Is so great, talk just
for a minute about what you see as the potential
for artificial intelligence to dramatically reduce the paperwork, the bureaucracy,
and accelerate our ability to dynamically move in a rapidly
changing environment.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I think we all see that none of the military
except for the Marine Corps can pass an audit. We
are years behind in some places. Within critical resourcing. We
have no idea what the depths and vulnerabilities that exist
in our supply chains, the extent to which those vulnerabilities exist.
All of this can be solved by artificial intelligence. When
(23:32):
you talk about military construction, there is and I think
most people don't understand this, from the time that you
say we need something and it gets authorized and appropriated
to the time that that building to the time that
soldiers or airmen or marine move into that building on
a military installation is seven years. That's absolute insanity. Our
adversaries are moving so much faster than this is because
(23:54):
we've created so much bureaucratic red tape and requirements. The
requirements that we placed on these projects are just absolutely insane.
It drives the cost through the roof. We're paying five
million dollars for a building that otta cost one point
two million, and we're getting it seven years in the future.
It's actually one of the reasons Sky Foundry is not
going to be coming to North Carolina right off the bat.
(24:14):
We don't have any infrastructure to support it there and
I can't build it outside of the MILCN process. It's
got to go to other states that have available infrastructure
that's not serving our national security properly. We have to
do a lot better than this.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You'll put your if any on one of the major
requirements for our survival, frankly, which is to cut through
all the obsolete red tape. All the obsolete requirements, a
number of which, to be fair, were caused by the Congress,
not by the Pentagon. You wrote an op ed after
the assassination of Charlie Kirk, a warning that the left
has abandoned persuasion and normalized violence against conservatives. Why do
(24:50):
you think that things have become so.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Dangerous because rhetoric has consequences. You can't call our side Nazis, fascists,
supporters of dictators effectively enemies of the state without understanding
that there is legitimate risk and liability that you motivate
somebody to violence. It's just happened far too long. I
was actually talking about this with Steve Scalise just two
(25:13):
days ago, and you know, as you know, Steve was
shot on a baseball field by a radical leftist. Steve
almost lost his life. He knows I've had my house,
one of my family homes shot at because of my
political campaign. We have to understand that MSNBC has called
President Donald Trump a fascist three thousand times in the
(25:35):
last four years. That's what I was talking to Steve about.
That has very real consequences. We saw a poll last
week that fifty five percent of liberals think it's partially
or fully justifiable for somebody to assassinate President Donald Trump.
The right does not think that way. We think that
all violence, no matter where it is, is unacceptable, and
(25:57):
particularly when it is you for political purposes. It's antithetical
to our constitution, everything that we stand for, it have
worked for in this country, and it will systematically if
it continues, destabilize this country to a dangerous point, not
just dangerous for individuals, but for all of us collectively
moving forward, the cohesion of our country. All of this
(26:20):
demonizing of our side has to stop.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Mister speaker, Pat I want to thank you for joining
me and let our listeners know they can find out
more about the work you're doing in the US House
by visiting your website at Harrigan dot House dot gov.
This has been a terrific conversation You are an amazing
hasset for the United States of America, and you're continuing
(26:45):
your patriotic work which began a West Point, went to Afghanistan,
and now on behalf of North Carolina is Reagan in Washington.
So thank you so much for talking with us.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We are doing the very best that we know how
to do for our constituents and for the future of
our country, and it was genuinely a pleasure being with
you today.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Thank you to my guests, Congressman Pat Harrigan. You learn
more about the work he's doing in Congress on our
show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtorld is produced by
Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan.
Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show
was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team
(27:27):
at Gingerish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I
hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us
with five stars and give us a review so others
can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of
news World can sign up for my three free weekly
columns at Gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingish.
(27:48):
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