November 5, 2025 • 28 mins
Newt talks with Brenda Hafera about the Heritage Foundation's new initiative, the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites, launched ahead of the United States' 250th anniversary. The guide, available at historicsites.heritage.org is an interactive online map designed to help tourists, especially families and educators, rediscover America’s Heritage by exploring significant historic sites across the original 13 colonies, with plans to expand nationwide by 2026. The guide provides detailed information about each site, including historical significance, book recommendations, and considerations for family visits. It also evaluates sites for historical accuracy and ideological bias, addressing concerns about the portrayal of American history. Hafera discusses the challenges of preserving historical accuracy amidst efforts to revise history through a modern ideological lens. The guide aims to foster a deeper understanding of American history and values, encouraging families to plan educational trips that celebrate the nation's heritage.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of Newts World. Ahead of the two
hundred and fiftieth Anniversity United States, the Heritage Foundation has
launched a new website and interactive experience, the Heritage Guide
to Historic Sites. The website is historic Sites dot Heritage
dot org. They profile historic sites in the first thirteen colonies.
(00:27):
And I am really pleased to say that I help
with this project with a focus on Gettisberg here to
talk about the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. I am
really pleased to welcome my guest, Brendan Hafera. She is
the Assistant director and research fellow for the Simon Center
for American Studies at the Heritage Foundation. Brenda, welcome and
(01:09):
thank you for joining me in this world.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's a real pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Before we get into the Heritage Guide, I just have
to ask you, Remema, how did you get involved with
this and what's your background?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So my background is an American political thought. I got
to study primarily the American founding George Washington, James Madison,
with a fair dose of history, of course, because those
two things go hand in hand. So I studied the
American founding and that's my first and great love. As
I tell people. So it really came out of that
(01:43):
my personal experience of going to historic sites and like
a lot of people, seeing that sometimes things had gone awry.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think this is an important project, and I should
mention that the Heritage Foundation is probably the pre eminent
conservative intellectual center in the United States, a remarkable institution
which I've been involved with almost from the very beginning.
It's totally appropriate that Heriage would tackle this project. Describe
(02:12):
for us the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So it's an online interactive map that's geared towards tourists specifically,
and most importantly parents and grandparents and teachers thinking about
leading class trips to historic sites across the country. So
the main web page is an interactive map that pinpoints
(02:37):
notable significant historic sites. We've just launched sites in the
thirteen original colonies. We'll be launching sites in every state
plus the District of Columbia in early twenty twenty six,
so people have time to plan your summer vacations and
figure out where you're going to go to commemorate America
to fifty this summer. So that's the main page, and
(02:58):
then each site as an individual page that offers book recommendations,
that explains why the site is significant, That gives people
a sense of what to expect. You know, what are
the main toures, what are the main exhibits there, So
you're kind of giving some help with navigating the site.
And then considerations for families, because it's really geared towards parents.
(03:22):
Parents with young children. You know, you might not consider
going to this exhibit, not because it's inaccurate, but because
it might not be age appropriate if you have young kids.
So drawing attention to that, and then also unfortunately the
ideological problems that are sometimes occurring of sites that teach
LGBTQ plus history and alerting parents and families to that content.
(03:44):
So that's the positive side of it, I would say.
And then there's the accountability piece that each site is
given a grade of historical accuracy a B or C
based on accuracy and comprehension, iological bias, and proportionality. So
the evaluations the individual site page also alert if there
(04:07):
are historical distortions going on at the sites.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think that's particularly important because under Obama and Biden
there was a real effort to rewrite American history. If
you will take just a minute talk about the challenges
you faced in dealing with that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes, so this big project was a bit of an
extension of other works. So in twenty twenty two I
released a report on Mount Vernon, Monticello, and Montpelier called
the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, with Mount Vernon
being the good, Monticello being the bad, and Montpelier being
the ugly. So very sadly, today, if you go to
(04:46):
Montpelier there are no exhibits aimed at James Madison and
explaining his contributions and accomplishments to the American experiment. And
that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I would say, well, I would the board of Montpelier
not be describing the person whose house it was.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So part of this story, I think is what's happened
in the country overall that you mentioned. Since twenty twenty two.
It's been described as the great awokening right of movements
towards critical race theory, towards DEI revisionist history, and sites
of museums have gotten swept up in that movement. And
then there's the individual story of what had happened at
(05:27):
sites like Montpelier and Montpelier invited associates of the Southern
Poverty Law Center in helping with the exhibits, and if
you look at the curriculum of the SPLC and the
exhibits at Montpelier, they're very similar. And then there was
a change in leadership where what was called the Montpailier
(05:47):
Descendants Committee argued that descendants of those who were enslaved
should have half the seats on the board. But if
you look at their guidelines, how they'd find descendants is
those who are genealogical descendants, but anyone who feels connected
to the institution, whether they know of a genealogical connection
(06:08):
or not. So it was really politically motivated, and they
put together the s rubric a few years back on
how to teach slavery engage with descendants at historic sites,
and they say things like it's not enough to discuss
the humanity and contributions of the enslaved, you also have
to unpack and interrogate white supremacy. So it's really the
(06:31):
shift of we're going to tell history the full story
to we're going to engage in political activism and use
museums and historic sites.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
To do so. If a parent or grandparent taking their
children around, if they turn to heritage, do you sort
of help describe each of these in a way that
gets them back to the original American meaning.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, that's right. So one of the advantages of this
guide is we have sent evaluators whose background matches the
particular site. So, for example, a poet reviewed Edgar Allan
Poe's house, and that's really lovely because it brings a
unique perspective, a really valuable perspective. But it also helps
(07:19):
with that accountability piece, because when you go to historic sites,
there are sometimes obvious distortions, like Montpelier puts forth that
the Constitution is a pro slavery document and you might
be aware of that, or other sites like Monticello claim
that all men are created equal meant white property owning men,
(07:40):
and so a casual visitor might say that's inaccurate and
be aware of it, But then they're the unknown unknowns,
right of No one can be an expert in all
areas of history, and you're going to this historic site
to learn, and you might not even be aware that
things are a muck. So, to give one example, at Montpelier,
(08:04):
in their Constitution exhibit, they point to the domestic and
Insurrection clause and say that's primarily about slaver volts, and
it certainly would have applied to slaver volts, but the
impetus for that was Shay's rebellion, right, because the founders
realized that the Articles of Confederation were too weak. They
didn't have those basic police powers, and that was something
(08:27):
they needed to include. So there's that historical context. And
then Montpelier also lists five slaver volts to try and
back up their thesis, and three of them happened after
the Constitution was written, so they're those sorts of distortions
were pointing out in the guide.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I should say along that line that the first real
use of the Insurration Act actually involved Western Pennsylvania whiskey distillers,
had nothing to do with slavery, and was an effort
to challenge the authority of George Wallis Washington and the
federal government, and Washington as a result, I think, called
out thirteen thousand militia in order to convince them that
(09:08):
they had to back down, which they did at that point.
But it had nothing to do with slavery.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I don't know if you've ever considered taking everything you've
already learned and really producing a book that says, this
is what the woke left says, this is what historically happened.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I think that's part of what this project does. The
advantage of doing it online is it's easier to update, right.
There is a form at the bottom of each page
that allows people to indicate if a site has changed
since we were last there, so we can update it regularly.
We can keep up to date with things. They can
recommend another site that we should go to, or they
(09:46):
can voice disagreement. So that allows us to actually crowdsource
some of this work to the American public, which I
think is an advantage.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Part of what you mean by interactive is literally they
can interact with the Heritage Foundation.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, that's right, as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Well as interacting with the website. Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
That's a good point you can reach us.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
One of the great breakthroughs of Heritage over the last
twenty five years is how much it's now a grassroots
organization not just an intellectual organization when you go through
this process. In your opinion, how much is the two
hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the desclosure deependence, how much
will that increase public curiosity about American history? And about
(10:50):
how we became the country that we are.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Anniversaries are times to reflect and we all know the
state of civic education. Were aware of the statistics of
For example, three out of four members of gen Z
believe the founding Fathers could be more aptly described as
villains rather than heroes. So I think America two fifty
(11:14):
is a unique opportunity to rediscover the American story, to
rediscover our history, to revisit the principles that were dedicated
to Calvin Coolidge gave a superb speech on the occasion
of our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary, and he said
something to the effect of, you know, there's no progress
(11:36):
beyond the proposition that all men are created equal. If
anyone wants to deny the truth of that claim, they're
not going to proceed forward. They're going to proceed backward
historically to a time where there's no individual rights, no
consent of the people. And I think that's a tremendous point,
(11:57):
that these are eternal principles, that they're true, and they're
true for all men at all times at Abraham Lincoln
sets So returning to that history, I think is so
incredibly important for us as a people.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's really vital in a free society for citizens to
have a sense of the core values that make up
their country, because in dictatorships it doesn't matter much because
the dictator doesn't care what you think. But in a
free society, having an informed citizenry is really really important
(12:34):
because ultimately, if you're going to have government of the people,
by the people, and for the people in Lincoln's formula,
the people had better be pretty knowledgeable because they're going
to have a dramatically bigger impact on their country's future
than they would if they were in a dictatorship. And
I think what you're doing in that sense is really important.
Do you hope to see families actually sort of take
(12:57):
this site and then use it to plan out a
summer trip and be able to go around from historic
site to historic site.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, that's the goal. So right now we have about
forty five sites available on the website in those thirteen
original colonies. We're aiming to release the full map around
February of next year, so the timing is good so
families will be able to plan those summer vacations and
figure out where they're going to go to celebrate America
(13:26):
two fifty and there'll be about one hundred and thirty
five sites at that time. So this is a state
driven project, and that's particularly because you know, we believe
in federalism here at the Heritage Foundation. We believe that
there are a lot of sites, especially the local and
state sites, that are still doing a very good job
(13:46):
and stewarding our history well, and we want to recognize
those sites. And our hope is also that in doing
it this way, that there'll be at least one site
in every state. Families will be able to find one
that's within driving distance, right, because most families can't afford
airline tickets to come to DC and go to the Smithsonians.
(14:08):
And also there's real value and going to the places
where history really happened, right. I like the Smithsonians. They
bring together history that occurred elsewhere. But there's something about
going to Mount Vernon, right, there's only one Mount Vernon.
This is where Washington really lived, and you get a
(14:29):
sense of his character as you're walking through there and
you see the paintings of the Potomac for example, and
Washington really took up the Potomac River project, which was
having waterways and roads that connected the country because he
thought that was really important for national unity and to
(14:50):
be able to converse and interact with your fellow citizens.
So these sites teach you things that you don't know.
They teach you things about the character of the American people.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Every time I'm there and I think about Washington literally
physically being them, and this was his home, this was
where he was a farmer. You can actually stand where
they stood, and I think it brings to life history
in a way that just reading in the book doesn't
have the same impact.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I completely agree there's something humbling about it. To be
in those locations. It helps give you a sense of
gratitude for the sacrifice of these men and women who
built this country. My personal experience, and this is again
why I think this project is so important. I remember
going to Gettysburg when I was a kid. Good things
(15:45):
come from Pennsylvania. I grew up in Pennsylvania and that
was our historic site that I went to. So thank
you for reviewing that. And I remembered seeing the cyclorama
and how cool that was, and my dad thought it
was the best thing in the world world, And he said,
you know, we have to come back, and we have
to spend six days here, so we can trace three
(16:06):
days of the battle from the Union side and three
days of the battle from the Confederate side. It explains
so much of how I am today. But it sticks
in your mind, right, Those things stick in your mind
as a child, and you remember that experience.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Gettisburg, I think is just in terms of learning, one
of the most amazing places to go and to see
how the battle unfolded. It's all physically right there. You
really can get pretty good sense of what happened on
those three days, which were in many ways decisive about
(17:00):
whether or not the Union would survive or whether we
would break into two different countries. To go to a
place like Gettysburg, to realize the sacrifices that people made,
their willingness to put their lives on the line for
an idea, for the idea of freedom, the idea that
our rights come from God. It's I think, an amazing experience,
(17:21):
and I think that the ability to go to the
heritage website then think about what you want to do
this summer or some future summer, and where you want
to take your children or your friends to go and
experience history is a very important public service by the
Heritage Foundation, you are a key part of public education
(17:44):
in a different way than we mean by bureaucratic school
based education. How do you see that as part of
the Heritage Foundation mission?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
So I think that's such an important point. You know,
civic education doesn't just happen in the classroom, and sadly
these days happens in the classroom less and less so
historic sites. This is why they're so important. There are
places of public education where we go with our families
to learn the American story. And so this map as
(18:15):
a whole is telling the American story through place. It
includes things like Gettysburg, Antietam, the battlefields. It includes things
like Edgar Allan Poe's house and Mark Twain's house, these
notable figures, so literature and art. It includes the spirit
of American enterprise because they're the Right Brothers Memorial and
(18:36):
we carry that forward to the Challenger and that's part
of our DNA as Americans and what that says about us.
And I think that's incredibly important one for families because
it's a touch grass opportunity that is coming increasingly rare
that grandparents, parents and children can all do together and
(18:57):
those real world activities are very very important, and it's
important for the individual in that showing our children these
heroes of something to aspire to it motivates them, right
as opposed to always saying that you're a victim or
that this country is not good. And then it's important
for our civic component. Part of the reason these places
(19:21):
are a target is that transforming them is a way
to transform America. It's not simply that Madison's home is
about Madison and he deserves our gratitude. He was a
remarkable American who did a great deal. But his home
also stands for the Constitution, and that's part of why
(19:42):
it's so important and part of why it's a target.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I do think in that sense that there's been a
real effort on the left to undermine and deliberately distored
and weaken the whole sense of being American. Do you
have that same feeling.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I do, sadly, a certain segment I think it is.
I'm still hopeful that it's a very loud and active minority.
But I do believe that it's a deliberate effort. It's
not simply a lack of conscientiousness.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I don't think it's just a random effort to get
to a quote more accurate understanding. I think it's an
effort to replace the accurate understanding with a deliberately ideological
bias that would basically create a false history and profoundly
(20:36):
mislead us about how the world works. And that's why
I think what you're doing is fundamental to the survival
of free society. If we don't have some kind of
grounded truth, we can't function in the long run. And
I think what Heritage is trying to do is reassert
(20:57):
historic facts and historic truths at a time when there
has been an astonishingly large effort by our elites to
convince us about a false history and a false narrative
as a country. And that's why I think what you're
doing is historically very important.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I completely agree we can't let go of the truth
of equal human dignity. If we let go of that,
if we let go of natural law, I think we
fundamentally change who we are as a people. And I
think it's absolutely correct that this is a deliberate effort.
One example of this is the Andrew Mellon Foundation is
(21:38):
the largest donor to arts and humanities in the country,
and they've dedicated five hundred million dollars to transforming our
monuments landscape. And they say it's very much from a
postmodernist lens that we need to take down monuments because
there are no LGBTQ plus individuals in the list of
(22:01):
the top fifty people most often commemorated, So the top
two are Washington and Lincoln. And so what that would
involve is removing statues of Washington and Lincoln to replace
them with other people, which is not historically accurate at
a certain point, actually inclusivity and historical accuracy, but against
(22:23):
one another, and you have to make a choice of
we can't bend history to make it match inclusivity. That's
not accurate, right, Lincoln and Washington did great things for
this country, and so I think it is a movement.
And they say also in their guide, you know, we
have a history of a people as taking down monuments,
(22:46):
and the example they note is taking down the statue
of King George during the American Revolution. But I think
it's important to point out that was a regime change, right,
that meant a fun fundamentally different country. And I think
there are people that's what they're after, right, they want
to transform the country.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
No. I think that's right. And that's why Heritage and
its effort to create a guide which allows people to
see accurate history, is directly engaged in the survival of
the United States as a country and as a culture
and as a set of values. And I think what
(23:30):
you're doing in that sense is amazing. Let me ask
you one last thing, which is, if you look back, say,
ten years from now, how will you know if the
Heritage Guide to Historic Sites has been a worthwhile and
effective project.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
This is a very good question. I think my hope
is maybe to illustrate this. I have three different visions
in my mind of what could happen. So there's the
negative experience, which is parents take their children to Montpellier
and the only exhibit for kids is one on race
(24:05):
and Slavery. To teach children about race and slavery with books,
all of which were recommended by the Southern Poverty Law Center,
and one of those books encourages children to imagine themselves
not as the victim, but as the aggressor, whipping a
slave into a quote his flesh cried blood, with a
(24:29):
picture of a man hanging from a rope with his
back bloodied from whip marks, and that's the experience that
children have when they go to Montpelier, and it doesn't
inculcate gravititude, it doesn't inspire them, it doesn't make them
want to be strong and gracious individuals. That's one vision.
(24:51):
The other vision is a vision where those things are
simply lost. Our historic sites are gone and there's no
opportunity for families to go to them and learn. And
then there's the positive vision, right of being able to
go to Mount Vernon and learn about how Washington formed
(25:11):
an American national character, and being able to go to
Monticello and learn about how Jefferson gave expression to the
American mind, and how, in Lincoln's words, we owe all
honor to Jefferson for introducing into a merely revolutionary document
(25:32):
a principle applicable to all men and all times. And
then to go to Montbailier and learn how this Virginia
scholar was first and foremost an American patriot and he
became the father of the Constitution and made possible the
miracle of Philadelphia. That's what I want, and if we're
(25:55):
able to do that for America's children, for the next generation,
I will consider what or this guy to success.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Let me commend you because you have described a life
of moral purpose which all of us can be impressed
by and can aspire to. And I should remind everybody
everybody listening can go to historic Sites dot Heritage dot
org and see the remarkable work that Brenda has launched,
(26:24):
and can take their families and their friends and go
to these historic sites and know that they have an
introduction to them that is historically accurate, faithful to the
American culture, and an important contribution to an informed, educated patriotism.
And Brenda, I just want to thank you personally for
(26:44):
dedicating so much of your life to working to sustain
America and help pursue the truth so every American can
have a chance to learn what made a sense of
remarkable country.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Well, thank you for being part of it. It would
not have been possible without evaluators like you who were
willing to go out and defend the principle and the
history and the country that we all love.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Thank you to my guest, Brenda Hafera. Newtsworld is produced
by Gingrish Sweet sixty in iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guarncie Sloane. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
the team at Gingrish sweet sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld,
I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate
(27:34):
us with five stars and give us a review so
others can learn what it's all about. Join me on
substack at Gingrich three sixty dot net. I'm Newt Gingrich.
This is Newtsworld.
On this episode of Newts World. Ahead of the two
hundred and fiftieth Anniversity United States, the Heritage Foundation has
launched a new website and interactive experience, the Heritage Guide
to Historic Sites. The website is historic Sites dot Heritage
dot org. They profile historic sites in the first thirteen colonies.
(00:27):
And I am really pleased to say that I help
with this project with a focus on Gettisberg here to
talk about the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. I am
really pleased to welcome my guest, Brendan Hafera. She is
the Assistant director and research fellow for the Simon Center
for American Studies at the Heritage Foundation. Brenda, welcome and
(01:09):
thank you for joining me in this world.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's a real pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Before we get into the Heritage Guide, I just have
to ask you, Remema, how did you get involved with
this and what's your background?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So my background is an American political thought. I got
to study primarily the American founding George Washington, James Madison,
with a fair dose of history, of course, because those
two things go hand in hand. So I studied the
American founding and that's my first and great love. As
I tell people. So it really came out of that
(01:43):
my personal experience of going to historic sites and like
a lot of people, seeing that sometimes things had gone awry.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think this is an important project, and I should
mention that the Heritage Foundation is probably the pre eminent
conservative intellectual center in the United States, a remarkable institution
which I've been involved with almost from the very beginning.
It's totally appropriate that Heriage would tackle this project. Describe
(02:12):
for us the Heritage Guide to Historic Sites. Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So it's an online interactive map that's geared towards tourists specifically,
and most importantly parents and grandparents and teachers thinking about
leading class trips to historic sites across the country. So
the main web page is an interactive map that pinpoints
(02:37):
notable significant historic sites. We've just launched sites in the
thirteen original colonies. We'll be launching sites in every state
plus the District of Columbia in early twenty twenty six,
so people have time to plan your summer vacations and
figure out where you're going to go to commemorate America
to fifty this summer. So that's the main page, and
(02:58):
then each site as an individual page that offers book recommendations,
that explains why the site is significant, That gives people
a sense of what to expect. You know, what are
the main toures, what are the main exhibits there, So
you're kind of giving some help with navigating the site.
And then considerations for families, because it's really geared towards parents.
(03:22):
Parents with young children. You know, you might not consider
going to this exhibit, not because it's inaccurate, but because
it might not be age appropriate if you have young kids.
So drawing attention to that, and then also unfortunately the
ideological problems that are sometimes occurring of sites that teach
LGBTQ plus history and alerting parents and families to that content.
(03:44):
So that's the positive side of it, I would say.
And then there's the accountability piece that each site is
given a grade of historical accuracy a B or C
based on accuracy and comprehension, iological bias, and proportionality. So
the evaluations the individual site page also alert if there
(04:07):
are historical distortions going on at the sites.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I think that's particularly important because under Obama and Biden
there was a real effort to rewrite American history. If
you will take just a minute talk about the challenges
you faced in dealing with that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes, so this big project was a bit of an
extension of other works. So in twenty twenty two I
released a report on Mount Vernon, Monticello, and Montpelier called
the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, with Mount Vernon
being the good, Monticello being the bad, and Montpelier being
the ugly. So very sadly, today, if you go to
(04:46):
Montpelier there are no exhibits aimed at James Madison and
explaining his contributions and accomplishments to the American experiment. And
that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I would say, well, I would the board of Montpelier
not be describing the person whose house it was.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So part of this story, I think is what's happened
in the country overall that you mentioned. Since twenty twenty two.
It's been described as the great awokening right of movements
towards critical race theory, towards DEI revisionist history, and sites
of museums have gotten swept up in that movement. And
then there's the individual story of what had happened at
(05:27):
sites like Montpelier and Montpelier invited associates of the Southern
Poverty Law Center in helping with the exhibits, and if
you look at the curriculum of the SPLC and the
exhibits at Montpelier, they're very similar. And then there was
a change in leadership where what was called the Montpailier
(05:47):
Descendants Committee argued that descendants of those who were enslaved
should have half the seats on the board. But if
you look at their guidelines, how they'd find descendants is
those who are genealogical descendants, but anyone who feels connected
to the institution, whether they know of a genealogical connection
(06:08):
or not. So it was really politically motivated, and they
put together the s rubric a few years back on
how to teach slavery engage with descendants at historic sites,
and they say things like it's not enough to discuss
the humanity and contributions of the enslaved, you also have
to unpack and interrogate white supremacy. So it's really the
(06:31):
shift of we're going to tell history the full story
to we're going to engage in political activism and use
museums and historic sites.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
To do so. If a parent or grandparent taking their
children around, if they turn to heritage, do you sort
of help describe each of these in a way that
gets them back to the original American meaning.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yes, that's right. So one of the advantages of this
guide is we have sent evaluators whose background matches the
particular site. So, for example, a poet reviewed Edgar Allan
Poe's house, and that's really lovely because it brings a
unique perspective, a really valuable perspective. But it also helps
(07:19):
with that accountability piece, because when you go to historic sites,
there are sometimes obvious distortions, like Montpelier puts forth that
the Constitution is a pro slavery document and you might
be aware of that, or other sites like Monticello claim
that all men are created equal meant white property owning men,
(07:40):
and so a casual visitor might say that's inaccurate and
be aware of it, But then they're the unknown unknowns,
right of No one can be an expert in all
areas of history, and you're going to this historic site
to learn, and you might not even be aware that
things are a muck. So, to give one example, at Montpelier,
(08:04):
in their Constitution exhibit, they point to the domestic and
Insurrection clause and say that's primarily about slaver volts, and
it certainly would have applied to slaver volts, but the
impetus for that was Shay's rebellion, right, because the founders
realized that the Articles of Confederation were too weak. They
didn't have those basic police powers, and that was something
(08:27):
they needed to include. So there's that historical context. And
then Montpelier also lists five slaver volts to try and
back up their thesis, and three of them happened after
the Constitution was written, so they're those sorts of distortions
were pointing out in the guide.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I should say along that line that the first real
use of the Insurration Act actually involved Western Pennsylvania whiskey distillers,
had nothing to do with slavery, and was an effort
to challenge the authority of George Wallis Washington and the
federal government, and Washington as a result, I think, called
out thirteen thousand militia in order to convince them that
(09:08):
they had to back down, which they did at that point.
But it had nothing to do with slavery.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I don't know if you've ever considered taking everything you've
already learned and really producing a book that says, this
is what the woke left says, this is what historically happened.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I think that's part of what this project does. The
advantage of doing it online is it's easier to update, right.
There is a form at the bottom of each page
that allows people to indicate if a site has changed
since we were last there, so we can update it regularly.
We can keep up to date with things. They can
recommend another site that we should go to, or they
(09:46):
can voice disagreement. So that allows us to actually crowdsource
some of this work to the American public, which I
think is an advantage.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Part of what you mean by interactive is literally they
can interact with the Heritage Foundation.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, that's right, as.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Well as interacting with the website. Yep.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
That's a good point you can reach us.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
One of the great breakthroughs of Heritage over the last
twenty five years is how much it's now a grassroots
organization not just an intellectual organization when you go through
this process. In your opinion, how much is the two
hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the desclosure deependence, how much
will that increase public curiosity about American history? And about
(10:50):
how we became the country that we are.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Anniversaries are times to reflect and we all know the
state of civic education. Were aware of the statistics of
For example, three out of four members of gen Z
believe the founding Fathers could be more aptly described as
villains rather than heroes. So I think America two fifty
(11:14):
is a unique opportunity to rediscover the American story, to
rediscover our history, to revisit the principles that were dedicated
to Calvin Coolidge gave a superb speech on the occasion
of our one hundred and fiftieth anniversary, and he said
something to the effect of, you know, there's no progress
(11:36):
beyond the proposition that all men are created equal. If
anyone wants to deny the truth of that claim, they're
not going to proceed forward. They're going to proceed backward
historically to a time where there's no individual rights, no
consent of the people. And I think that's a tremendous point,
(11:57):
that these are eternal principles, that they're true, and they're
true for all men at all times at Abraham Lincoln
sets So returning to that history, I think is so
incredibly important for us as a people.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's really vital in a free society for citizens to
have a sense of the core values that make up
their country, because in dictatorships it doesn't matter much because
the dictator doesn't care what you think. But in a
free society, having an informed citizenry is really really important
(12:34):
because ultimately, if you're going to have government of the people,
by the people, and for the people in Lincoln's formula,
the people had better be pretty knowledgeable because they're going
to have a dramatically bigger impact on their country's future
than they would if they were in a dictatorship. And
I think what you're doing in that sense is really important.
Do you hope to see families actually sort of take
(12:57):
this site and then use it to plan out a
summer trip and be able to go around from historic
site to historic site.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, that's the goal. So right now we have about
forty five sites available on the website in those thirteen
original colonies. We're aiming to release the full map around
February of next year, so the timing is good so
families will be able to plan those summer vacations and
figure out where they're going to go to celebrate America
(13:26):
two fifty and there'll be about one hundred and thirty
five sites at that time. So this is a state
driven project, and that's particularly because you know, we believe
in federalism here at the Heritage Foundation. We believe that
there are a lot of sites, especially the local and
state sites, that are still doing a very good job
(13:46):
and stewarding our history well, and we want to recognize
those sites. And our hope is also that in doing
it this way, that there'll be at least one site
in every state. Families will be able to find one
that's within driving distance, right, because most families can't afford
airline tickets to come to DC and go to the Smithsonians.
(14:08):
And also there's real value and going to the places
where history really happened, right. I like the Smithsonians. They
bring together history that occurred elsewhere. But there's something about
going to Mount Vernon, right, there's only one Mount Vernon.
This is where Washington really lived, and you get a
(14:29):
sense of his character as you're walking through there and
you see the paintings of the Potomac for example, and
Washington really took up the Potomac River project, which was
having waterways and roads that connected the country because he
thought that was really important for national unity and to
(14:50):
be able to converse and interact with your fellow citizens.
So these sites teach you things that you don't know.
They teach you things about the character of the American people.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Every time I'm there and I think about Washington literally
physically being them, and this was his home, this was
where he was a farmer. You can actually stand where
they stood, and I think it brings to life history
in a way that just reading in the book doesn't
have the same impact.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I completely agree there's something humbling about it. To be
in those locations. It helps give you a sense of
gratitude for the sacrifice of these men and women who
built this country. My personal experience, and this is again
why I think this project is so important. I remember
going to Gettysburg when I was a kid. Good things
(15:45):
come from Pennsylvania. I grew up in Pennsylvania and that
was our historic site that I went to. So thank
you for reviewing that. And I remembered seeing the cyclorama
and how cool that was, and my dad thought it
was the best thing in the world world, And he said,
you know, we have to come back, and we have
to spend six days here, so we can trace three
(16:06):
days of the battle from the Union side and three
days of the battle from the Confederate side. It explains
so much of how I am today. But it sticks
in your mind, right, Those things stick in your mind
as a child, and you remember that experience.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Gettisburg, I think is just in terms of learning, one
of the most amazing places to go and to see
how the battle unfolded. It's all physically right there. You
really can get pretty good sense of what happened on
those three days, which were in many ways decisive about
(17:00):
whether or not the Union would survive or whether we
would break into two different countries. To go to a
place like Gettysburg, to realize the sacrifices that people made,
their willingness to put their lives on the line for
an idea, for the idea of freedom, the idea that
our rights come from God. It's I think, an amazing experience,
(17:21):
and I think that the ability to go to the
heritage website then think about what you want to do
this summer or some future summer, and where you want
to take your children or your friends to go and
experience history is a very important public service by the
Heritage Foundation, you are a key part of public education
(17:44):
in a different way than we mean by bureaucratic school
based education. How do you see that as part of
the Heritage Foundation mission?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
So I think that's such an important point. You know,
civic education doesn't just happen in the classroom, and sadly
these days happens in the classroom less and less so
historic sites. This is why they're so important. There are
places of public education where we go with our families
to learn the American story. And so this map as
(18:15):
a whole is telling the American story through place. It
includes things like Gettysburg, Antietam, the battlefields. It includes things
like Edgar Allan Poe's house and Mark Twain's house, these
notable figures, so literature and art. It includes the spirit
of American enterprise because they're the Right Brothers Memorial and
(18:36):
we carry that forward to the Challenger and that's part
of our DNA as Americans and what that says about us.
And I think that's incredibly important one for families because
it's a touch grass opportunity that is coming increasingly rare
that grandparents, parents and children can all do together and
(18:57):
those real world activities are very very important, and it's
important for the individual in that showing our children these
heroes of something to aspire to it motivates them, right
as opposed to always saying that you're a victim or
that this country is not good. And then it's important
for our civic component. Part of the reason these places
(19:21):
are a target is that transforming them is a way
to transform America. It's not simply that Madison's home is
about Madison and he deserves our gratitude. He was a
remarkable American who did a great deal. But his home
also stands for the Constitution, and that's part of why
(19:42):
it's so important and part of why it's a target.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
I do think in that sense that there's been a
real effort on the left to undermine and deliberately distored
and weaken the whole sense of being American. Do you
have that same feeling.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I do, sadly, a certain segment I think it is.
I'm still hopeful that it's a very loud and active minority.
But I do believe that it's a deliberate effort. It's
not simply a lack of conscientiousness.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I don't think it's just a random effort to get
to a quote more accurate understanding. I think it's an
effort to replace the accurate understanding with a deliberately ideological
bias that would basically create a false history and profoundly
(20:36):
mislead us about how the world works. And that's why
I think what you're doing is fundamental to the survival
of free society. If we don't have some kind of
grounded truth, we can't function in the long run. And
I think what Heritage is trying to do is reassert
(20:57):
historic facts and historic truths at a time when there
has been an astonishingly large effort by our elites to
convince us about a false history and a false narrative
as a country. And that's why I think what you're
doing is historically very important.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I completely agree we can't let go of the truth
of equal human dignity. If we let go of that,
if we let go of natural law, I think we
fundamentally change who we are as a people. And I
think it's absolutely correct that this is a deliberate effort.
One example of this is the Andrew Mellon Foundation is
(21:38):
the largest donor to arts and humanities in the country,
and they've dedicated five hundred million dollars to transforming our
monuments landscape. And they say it's very much from a
postmodernist lens that we need to take down monuments because
there are no LGBTQ plus individuals in the list of
(22:01):
the top fifty people most often commemorated, So the top
two are Washington and Lincoln. And so what that would
involve is removing statues of Washington and Lincoln to replace
them with other people, which is not historically accurate at
a certain point, actually inclusivity and historical accuracy, but against
(22:23):
one another, and you have to make a choice of
we can't bend history to make it match inclusivity. That's
not accurate, right, Lincoln and Washington did great things for
this country, and so I think it is a movement.
And they say also in their guide, you know, we
have a history of a people as taking down monuments,
(22:46):
and the example they note is taking down the statue
of King George during the American Revolution. But I think
it's important to point out that was a regime change, right,
that meant a fun fundamentally different country. And I think
there are people that's what they're after, right, they want
to transform the country.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
No. I think that's right. And that's why Heritage and
its effort to create a guide which allows people to
see accurate history, is directly engaged in the survival of
the United States as a country and as a culture
and as a set of values. And I think what
(23:30):
you're doing in that sense is amazing. Let me ask
you one last thing, which is, if you look back, say,
ten years from now, how will you know if the
Heritage Guide to Historic Sites has been a worthwhile and
effective project.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
This is a very good question. I think my hope
is maybe to illustrate this. I have three different visions
in my mind of what could happen. So there's the
negative experience, which is parents take their children to Montpellier
and the only exhibit for kids is one on race
(24:05):
and Slavery. To teach children about race and slavery with books,
all of which were recommended by the Southern Poverty Law Center,
and one of those books encourages children to imagine themselves
not as the victim, but as the aggressor, whipping a
slave into a quote his flesh cried blood, with a
(24:29):
picture of a man hanging from a rope with his
back bloodied from whip marks, and that's the experience that
children have when they go to Montpelier, and it doesn't
inculcate gravititude, it doesn't inspire them, it doesn't make them
want to be strong and gracious individuals. That's one vision.
(24:51):
The other vision is a vision where those things are
simply lost. Our historic sites are gone and there's no
opportunity for families to go to them and learn. And
then there's the positive vision, right of being able to
go to Mount Vernon and learn about how Washington formed
(25:11):
an American national character, and being able to go to
Monticello and learn about how Jefferson gave expression to the
American mind, and how, in Lincoln's words, we owe all
honor to Jefferson for introducing into a merely revolutionary document
(25:32):
a principle applicable to all men and all times. And
then to go to Montbailier and learn how this Virginia
scholar was first and foremost an American patriot and he
became the father of the Constitution and made possible the
miracle of Philadelphia. That's what I want, and if we're
(25:55):
able to do that for America's children, for the next generation,
I will consider what or this guy to success.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Let me commend you because you have described a life
of moral purpose which all of us can be impressed
by and can aspire to. And I should remind everybody
everybody listening can go to historic Sites dot Heritage dot
org and see the remarkable work that Brenda has launched,
(26:24):
and can take their families and their friends and go
to these historic sites and know that they have an
introduction to them that is historically accurate, faithful to the
American culture, and an important contribution to an informed, educated patriotism.
And Brenda, I just want to thank you personally for
(26:44):
dedicating so much of your life to working to sustain
America and help pursue the truth so every American can
have a chance to learn what made a sense of
remarkable country.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Well, thank you for being part of it. It would
not have been possible without evaluators like you who were
willing to go out and defend the principle and the
history and the country that we all love.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Thank you to my guest, Brenda Hafera. Newtsworld is produced
by Gingrish Sweet sixty in iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is
Guarncie Sloane. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for
the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to
the team at Gingrish sweet sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld,
I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate
(27:34):
us with five stars and give us a review so
others can learn what it's all about. Join me on
substack at Gingrich three sixty dot net. I'm Newt Gingrich.
This is Newtsworld.
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