September 17, 2024 • 35 mins
In this second half of this special episode of Next Question, Katie sits down with Hillary Clinton for an intimate conversation recorded live at DAR Constitution Hall. In this candid and wide-ranging chat, Clinton pulls back the curtain on the current political scene, sharing sharp insights on President Biden’s decision to step aside, Kamala Harris' campaign so far, and the seemingly unshakeable presence of Donald Trump. And for the record, yes, Hillary’s a Swiftie—deal with it.
They also discuss Clinton's latest book and her fourth memoir, Something Lost, Something Gained, which reflects on resilience, leadership, and lessons from her personal and political life. With humor and candor, Clinton doesn’t shy away from the tough questions, offering a rare glimpse into her evolving perspective on power, loss, and how the game of politics never really ends.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk, and this is next question.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome former Secretary of State Hillary
Rodham Clinton and Katie Kirk, Award winning journalist and co
founder of Katie Kirk Media.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I rewatched your concession speech to prepare for this interview,
and in it you said, our constitutional democracy enshrines the
peaceful transfer of power, and we don't just respect that,
we cherish that. I'm sure that was the hardest speech
you have ever had to give in your political career.
(00:58):
But do you think we'll ever see those kinds of
gracious and graceful concession speeches again, like John McCain's, for example.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, you know, Katie, I really think if we if
we do what we should do and we defeat Donald Trump,
I think we can get back to what I would
consider much more normal politics again, and hopefully new leaders
(01:30):
would emerge on the Republican side who would not just
give lip service to the constitution and the peaceful transfer
of power and everything that goes, you know, with a democracy,
but would again model it. And you know, I am optimistic.
Like my late wonderful friend Madeline Albright used to say,
(01:54):
she was an optimist who worries a lot, and so
that kind of describes me. I am optimist stake. I'm
optimistic about our country and its future.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
But it's really up to us. You know. It's Trump
is one person.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And we are many, many millions with different you know,
views and backgrounds, and we want to.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
See the peaceful transfer of power.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We want to see leaders who are in it for us,
not for themselves. Everything that is really at the root
of this campaign. And when I gave that concession speech, clearly,
you know, I was hoping for the best and.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
It just was not to be. And the people that.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Really staffed the first Trump White House and the first
Trump government, they were people who had some experience. Again,
I might have disagreed with them, but I've thought of
them as being you know, sensible, you know, people, people
who respected the constitution.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
They are all gone now.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
They are all supporting, you know, Kamala Harris because they
saw firsthand what Trump was like. And the people he
will bring in are people who are true believers, who
are fanatics, who want to be dictators themselves. And that's
what people have to understand. It's not just him, it's
that whole project twenty twenty five crowd that literally wants
(03:29):
to impose their political, partisan and religious views.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
On all the rest of us. And you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Raised to cherish, you know, the separation of church and state.
These folks want to demolish it and basically tell us
who we are supposed to worship and how and everything else.
I mean, this is dangerous, dangerous stuff. And I'm glad that,
you know, Project twenty twenty five has sort of pierced
(04:02):
the you know, consciousness of the voting public, because take
a look at it. I mean, why would anybody advocate
for getting rid of the National Weather Service.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Or the Department of Education, or all the civil servants.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Or getting rid of all the civil servants and populating
government with you know, partisans.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Having a litmus test right absolutely, And you know this
is he's tried to distance himself from that well unsuccessfully.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I mean just just you know, in the last
day or two a video popped up where he was
praising he was at some Heritage Foundation event praising you know,
their work and all the rest of it. You know,
I am the one who said there's a vast right
wing conspiracy in.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Nineteen and.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
You know a lot of people laughed at me or
you know, said, oh my gosh, that's absolutely crazy. Well, no,
it's absolutely true, and you could see it playing out.
And now it's not really a conspiracy. It's all out
in public. We're going to tell you what we're going
to do to you. We're going to tell you, you know,
what we expect from you. And in the book, I
(05:19):
write about waking up the day after a Trump victory
and just seeing what's going on in the country and
leading with you know, military troops in our streets, you know,
breaking into businesses and homes to round up people they
think are here illegally in order to deport them. And
(05:42):
can you imagine, I mean, the kind of chaos and
terrible outcomes that would be a result of that kind
of military occupation of American cities. And so people need
to take it seriously and look at this project twenty
twenty five. And not only that, just listen to Trump
because he says it. He says it all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I want to run through some really important issues, not
exactly a lightning round, but we have a fair amount
to cover. First, reproductive rights, you warned on the Senate
floor during Justice Alito's confirmation hearings in two thousand and six. This,
this nomination could well be the tipping point against constitutionally
based freedoms and protections we cherish as individuals and as
(06:27):
a nation. I fear that Judge Alito will roll back
decades of progress.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Roe v.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wade is at risk. The privacy of Americans is at risk.
Environmental safeguards, laws that protect workers from abuse or negligence,
laws even that keep machine guns off the street. All
these and many others are in peril. You take no
joy out of being prescient, do you no?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know, as a Senator, I got to vote on
both John Roberts and Samuel Alito, and as part of
that process, I interviewed them both, which is, you know,
the way senators get their own, you know, ideas about
(07:13):
who these candidates are that the President has nominated. And
I found both of them to be, you know, really
on agenda's basically, and you know, Roberts was much more
gracious and affable. If you read the long story in
(07:34):
the New York Times in the last day or so,
you know, clearly on an agenda that you know he
is now driving, including this incredibly dangerous immunity decision with Alito,
there was no hiding it.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He was clearly a results.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oriented jurist who was going to use the Supreme Court
to reverse a lot of what many of us believed
has been progress over the last fifty years, some of
which you know, I mentioned on the floor of the
Senate and I was I was very worried about him
(08:17):
because of that. Again, he is driven by cultural and
religious beliefs about how society should be structured based on
his own opinion, not the law.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
His opinion, like the opinion in the Dobbs decision.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
As a recovering lawyer and law professor, I found it,
you know, absolutely weak and totally results oriented. I want
to get to this and I don't care what the
precedent is. I don't care what the you know, the
law basically says. I want you to pay attention to
what Justice Elena Kagan said at NYU this week, because
(08:58):
what she said echoes what Justice Thomas and Alito have
certainly hinted, and that is left to their own devices.
Other landmark decisions, whether it's the Loving decision on interracial marriage,
the gay marriage decision, the contraception decision. I'm not saying
(09:22):
this I am referencing Justice Kagan. Those are all on
the agenda for this court to reverse. So they will say,
if you look at the logic in the Dobbs case,
and I have a whole chapter on Dobbs and democracy
in the book, if you look at that decision, they
(09:44):
basically say, well, you know, none of this was in
the original intent of the Constitution.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
That is their.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Rationale, made up rationale. This whole theory of originalism is
made up to get to the results that they want
to further their political, cultural, religious, and financial interests. And
so they are gunning for other rights that have been expanded.
And if they throw those rights back to the states
(10:18):
so that gay marriage, contraception IVF, interracial marriage all of
a sudden becomes a state issue, then man, we are
in for a terrible, terrible reversal of people's basic freedoms.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And we can't let that happen.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And they could still try to do cases like that
even with a president Harris, but we would have a
president and hopefully a democratic House and Senate to prevent
the worst of this court from coming into effect.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You
(11:32):
know you write in your book the Republicans Plan in
terms of overturning Roe v. Wade, the Republicans Plan seems
to have backfired and turned their long sought holy grail
into a poison chalice.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
You know, what.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Impact do you think this is going to have on
the election. It already seems to have galvanized women. The
gender gap is huge. How do you think it will
What will the ramifications become November?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
They are going to be that, you know, women and
the men who understand the importance of this issue turn
out and vote overwhelmingly for Democrats, not just Kamala and Tim,
but Senate and House Democrats. Because I will predict you
sitting here on this stage, pay no attention to what
(12:21):
Trump says about a national abortion ban, because if he
has a Republican Congress, if he's in the White House,
they will pass a national abortion ban and he will
sign it. And they will also pass laws that criminalize
women from leaving state, you know, states to get medical care.
They will pass laws like Louisiana pass criminalizing not criminalizing,
(12:43):
but putting on Schedule one with very dangerous drugs, the
you know, abortion medication.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
They will do all of that.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Even though they don't represent a majority by any means
of the people in our country. And you can see
they don't even represent a majority in most states from
nearly all states. So in the book, when I write
about Dobbs and democracy, there's a line in Alito's decision
which is, well, women are not without political power. Basically,
(13:11):
let's just go out and show us that you know,
you don't like our decision. Well, starting in Kansas after
that decision, people turned out and showed that they were
not going to give in to that kind of political intimidation.
And in every state, every state, the reddest states like
(13:32):
Ohio and Montana and Kentucky, when abortion has been on
the ballot, it has passed because people do not want
the government and they sure don't want jd Vance.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Telling you what kind of medical care you can have.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Having said that, Hillary, how realistic is a federal law
gearing a woman's right to an abortion?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Could that actually happen? Yes?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And you know it could happen for several reasons. Those
of you who are lawyers, you know, there's the supremacy clause.
I mean, federal legislation is given, you know, pre eminence
over state law. So, for example, there is a law
(14:27):
in our country that the Biden administration is attempting to
enforce which says that people who show up at emergency
rooms must be taken in and given the health care
that they deserve. Now, it's a kind of relic, if
you will, of the you know, times of segregation, and
(14:47):
so people you know who are black or brown or
other minorities showing up in emergency rooms and being sent away.
So the federal government stepped in and said, you know,
you have to do this. So there are big fights
going on and one is on the way to this
Supreme Court because basically Texas said, no, we don't buy that.
You know, we have our own laws. We're going to
(15:08):
enforce our own laws, and we're not going to abide
by this national law about requiring emergency care. Now. I
don't know if you just saw that the first verified
death of a woman seeking pregnancy care that required an
abortion to save her life because she was in sepsis
in Georgia.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
She died.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We've had women lose their fertility, We've had women being
you know, very physically and emotionally damaged because they were
denied medical care. But we now have at least one
and maybe two verifiable cases because physicians are afraid of
going to jail. And so when a woman comes in
with a pregnancy in crisis, and there are many reasons
(15:53):
why that can happen, the doctors are reluctant to care
for her if, depending upon the state, there is still
a heartbeat, there could be no brain, the baby can
be dying and poisoning the mother, and they still won't intervene,
often until it's too late.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, my daughter and I have a.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Production company called Hidden Light, and we produced a film
called Zorowski Versus Texas, which is about three really brave
women in.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Texas who sued the.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Government of Texas because they were denied the care they needed.
One woman was literally, you know, bleeding out, another woman
was forced to carry a dead baby to term, and
another woman had to leave the state.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
These are not hypotheticals. Thousands and thousands and thousands.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Of women in these states are experiencing these kinds of
medical crises. So you can have national laws that then
have to be enforced. Obviously, the states try to find,
you know, federal judges that mostly Trump put on the
bend who will agree with them. But eventually you could
get to codifying Roe v. Wade, bringing Roe v. Wade
(17:07):
back by a national law, and trying to save women's lives,
and trying to give doctors and nurses permission to actually
help women and not be afraid that they'll end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I think those personal stories have to be told more.
And the so called abortion after birth that Donald Trump
keeps talking about, I'm like, that's called homicide. And finally
he was corrected during the ABC debate. So thank you
Lindsey Davis for that. I could talk to you for
(17:50):
like eight hours, you know, But I feel like, since
we're approaching the anniversary, we need to talk about October seventh.
I know you've joined the faculty at Columbia, you were
teaching last year when the attacks happened. How frustrating is
it that we're approaching the one year mark. Twelve hundred
(18:13):
Israelis killed, more than two hundred taken hostage, and by
some estimates, forty thousand Palestinians killed Now some people say
that's too low, some people say that's too high. But
one thing is certain, there doesn't seem to be a
resolution in sight.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, Katie, I think is certainly enormous effort being exercised
as we speak, because I do speak with people in
our government and occasionally people in other governments, about trying
to get to a cease fire, trying to get the
hostages back, trying to come up with a plan that
(18:56):
would free Gaza of a moss have a different Palestinian
government there, provide financial help to rebuild Gaza, have security
perhaps from Arab nations that would come to make sure
that you know, the people there could be free from intimidation.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
That all has to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And I know that even this week there is a
huge effort underway that not just the United States governments involved,
but the governments of Egypt and Cutter and European governments
all trying to.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Get to this ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Now I have the experience of having negotiated a ceasefire
between Israel and Hamas in November of twenty twelve, and
it was while I was Secretary of State and Hamas
was firing rockets and killing Israelis, and Yahoo was the
Prime minister then just as now, and was planning a
(20:01):
ground invasion of Gaza. And so I was actually with
President Obama in Cambodia at a different meeting of Asian countries,
and so he and I talked about it, and I
flew from Cambodia to Israel and negotiated with the Israeli government,
went to Ramala to negotiated with the Palestinian authority. And
(20:24):
there was a new government in Egypt which was headed
by a president from the Muslim Brotherhood, and people didn't
know him well and they hadn't really tested him. And
I went to Cairo and negotiated with him, and he
did the right thing of you know, working with and
(20:44):
putting pressure on Hamas for a ceasefire.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
So we got a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
But it was intense effort and it wasn't anything like
the horrors of October seventh. So I know how hard
this is and how difficult, you know, the underlying issues are.
But I've got every hope that maybe we can get
to a ceasefire, and if we do, I think it's
(21:10):
possible that we could see some you know, really positive
uh commitments from Arab countries in the Gulf primarily uh
to be good partners in trying to help the Palestinians.
So that that's, you know, that base, that's based on
(21:30):
conversations I had as late as yesterday, and you know,
let's hope that they can get that done.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I'm going to spend the last ten minutes or so,
I told your team I may go over a little.
Rachel Maddow can wait right. I wanted to focus on
a few more personal aspects hillary of your book. You know,
one of the things that has helped you throughout your
life the ups and downs, is a circle of female friends,
(22:25):
many of whom you've had over a lifetime, your sister friends,
as Mia Angelou would say. Talk about why they've been
so important to you. I know you recently took a
trip to Vegas to see Adele.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I want to hear all about that trip.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Or is this a case of what happens in Vegas
stays in Vegas?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Was it like the female version of the hangover? Oh
what stays in Vegas?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yes, you know, I have been blessed with a circle
of friends, as you say, Katie. In the book, I
write about some of my friends literally going back to
kindergarten and elementary and high school, and then so many
other friends over the course of my life, and and
(23:11):
literally I cannot imagine having lived the life I've lived
without having the friends that I've had. They have lifted
me up, they have kept me going, They have given
me advice.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Sometimes I didn't want to hear it, but I did.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And I have to say I was listening to Lyssa
when she came out. You know, I hired Lyssa to
work for me in the White House and she's been
a friend and a colleague ever since. And it's almost
impossible for me to think about taking on all of
these challenges that I've tried to address without my friends.
(23:47):
And my friends are you know, so important to me.
They show up for me. They you know, like the
like the Adele story. You know, one of you know,
three of my friends called me up shortly before my
birthday last year and basically started the conversation by saying,
you are really going to be old. I said, boy,
(24:11):
I could have gone all day without hearing that. And
after ribbing me some more because I'm older than they are,
they said, hey, you know I think girls trip. Yeah,
we're going to Vegas, we bought the tickets, We've done everything,
and you know, it's that kind and I try to
do it for them too. It's that kind of you know,
(24:32):
support and love that has just made you know, made
my life so rich and wonderful.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
But you know, one of the trade offs being open
and vulnerable and close to people is you know, we're
starting to lose some of those people. And I know
you lost your lifelong best friend Betsy, who died of
breast cancer in twenty nineteen. It was just a little
over a month after you lost your brother Tony. And
(25:01):
this is something we all have to deal with. As
you know, I lost my husband when he was forty
two and my sister in the span of five years.
And I just have to mention I so remember, we'll
always remember how kind you were.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Hillary.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Not only did you host an important event about coaling
cancer at the White House shortly after Jay died, but
you invited my sister Emily and me to have tea
with you at the White House when she was battling
pancreatic cancer and she had to drop out of the
race for Lieutenant governor. She was running with Mark Warner
(25:37):
in the state of Virginia. A lot of people thought
Emily would be the first female governor of Virginia. So
I'm curious, you know, the lessons you've learned. How you know,
I've learned a lot, but how you've been able to
cope with these tremendous losses that unfortunately we all experience
(25:58):
and experience more of as we get older.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know, Katie, I think about you losing your husband
and losing your sister, and uh, she was so dynamic,
and you too, were just incredible together.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
She was the real star of our family. Well you both, you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Both had you know, just so much personality and intelligence
and just fun and and you know that's something lost,
something gained. You know, I really think a lot about
all the people in my life that I've lost. And
you know, my my late brother Tony. You know, my
(26:37):
sister in law's here and one of his children as here,
and you know, it was just way too soon. And
I think about him all the time. I think about
you know, his you know, funny expressions and you know
the kind of jokes he used to tell, and growing
up with him, even though I was older, and I
(26:59):
and I, as you say, I mean, in a space
of three months, I lost a really close friend, Ellen Tausher,
former congresswoman from California, who also worked for me in
the state Department. Then I lost Tony, that I lost Betsy,
and it truly does just it just you know, it
just strikes your heart that you know, these are people
that were so much a part of your life and
(27:23):
they're gone, and I think about them all the time.
I write about my mother and my father. I mean
they've been you know, gone a while too, my dad longer.
And it's just part of life. And part of the
way that I think about it is showing up for
other people when they lose somebody because you just sharing
(27:47):
that experience, sharing the you know, the the grief that
comes with saying goodbye to somebody, telling stories that make
you laugh because you know there's always something to remember
about someone, you know, it just helps ease the pain.
And I think, you know, you went on to be
(28:07):
so focused on colon cancer and it was a way
of you know, taking your grief and putting it to
work to try to help other people. And so I
feel very much the same way. I mean, how do
we try to you know, ease each other's lives rather
than being you know, so negative. How do we try
(28:28):
to find the joy in life? And how do we
try to help each other?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I remember when my mom died, my minister called me.
This always makes me sound like I go to church
all the time, but I really don't, but I do sometimes.
And he called and he said, those who love love
deeply grief deeply. And it kind of switched turned to
(28:54):
switch in me and made me go from feeling feelings
so over was sorrow and it made me feel so
much gratitude that I was able to love and be
loved so intensely that the loss affected me so profoundly.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
If that makes sense, it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
And you know, there's a wonderful quote from Thornton Wilder
in the Bridge of San Luis, Rey where he said,
you know, there's the land of the living and the
land of the dead, but the bridge is love. I mean,
just because somebody's gone, you don't stop loving that person.
You don't stop thinking about that person, you don't stop
(29:37):
remembering special moments with that person. And I think that
you know, your minister, who's probably had to say that
to a lot of people, understood exactly what needed to
be said, so that you could feel that the grief
was part of the fact that you had loved Jay
(29:58):
so much. I mean, you know, I I really write
about my faith in this book too, because it's gotten
me through a lot. My friends and my faith have
been incredible support systems for me. And when you go
through hard times with people, you know, you need, whether
(30:19):
you're religious or not, you need to kind of fill
your mind and your heart with the wisdom of other
people so that you have something to fall back on
and you're not just taking that journey by yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
You write a lot about Bill, who's now writing his
own book. You talk about your relationship, which is really interesting,
which I think has been more scrutinized, the most scrutinized
relationship in history. Thanks after a little teaser, we're almost
out of time, but I spy a little friendship bracelet
(30:55):
on that left wrist.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yes, a young woman in the crowd gave these to me,
and I love I love having them because you know what,
I love Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Seem somebody tweeted the opposite today, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Or yesterday, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Do you think her endorsement will have an impact on
the election? I mean hundreds of thousands of people visited
that website to at least consider registering to vote. Right,
we don't know if they actually did.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Absolutely, Look, I think you know I am you know,
I am somebody who believes there are many, many, many
different doors that can open to bring somebody to voting
and voting for a particular candidate, And.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
And celebrities can do that.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, somebody who may may not think much about voting,
you know, it's just not you know, they're young, or
they're busy, or whatever the reason might be. You know,
that can break through and they can stop and think, wow.
You know what Taylor Swift said in her endorsement is
she did her research and you know, talked about why
she made that decision. So you know, somebody who admires her,
(32:17):
who's a fan of hers, reading that say, oh well,
maybe that, you know, can influence me to think about it.
So yeah, I think all of that makes a difference.
It's these elections are so close, they're all on the margins,
and anything that can inspire somebody to actually vote and
hopefully vote, you know, for their own future, which means
voting for you know, the vice president.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
To me, that's good. That's all to the good.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
And if if Kamala Harris is elected, can you envision
a role for yourself in a Harris administration?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
No, no, no, no, but what I what I canon
vision is to be as helpful as possible. You know, her,
her sister's a friend of mine, she worked for me
in my twenty sixteen campaign. Her husband as friends with
my husband and my son in law and my daughter.
(33:13):
I mean we really feel, you know, very connected to
her and her family.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
So you hosted a number of dinners for her at
your house when.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, I mean I hosted a dinner and she was
vice president at the beginning. Yeah, and you know Doug
has been over to our house.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean yes, we really, we really think these you know,
are too remarkable and wonderful people. And so yeah, I
will do everything I can to help and every way.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So well, Hillary Clinton, such a pleasure, such an honor.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The book is something lost, something Gang. Thank you so
so much. I hope you enjoyed the book.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a question for me,
a subject you want us to cover, or you want
to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,
reach out You can leave a short message at six
h nine five P one two five five five, or
you can send me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media.
The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.
Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are
Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music.
For more information about today's episode, or to sign up
(34:49):
for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description
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favorite shows.
Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk, and this is next question.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome former Secretary of State Hillary
Rodham Clinton and Katie Kirk, Award winning journalist and co
founder of Katie Kirk Media.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I rewatched your concession speech to prepare for this interview,
and in it you said, our constitutional democracy enshrines the
peaceful transfer of power, and we don't just respect that,
we cherish that. I'm sure that was the hardest speech
you have ever had to give in your political career.
(00:58):
But do you think we'll ever see those kinds of
gracious and graceful concession speeches again, like John McCain's, for example.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, you know, Katie, I really think if we if
we do what we should do and we defeat Donald Trump,
I think we can get back to what I would
consider much more normal politics again, and hopefully new leaders
(01:30):
would emerge on the Republican side who would not just
give lip service to the constitution and the peaceful transfer
of power and everything that goes, you know, with a democracy,
but would again model it. And you know, I am optimistic.
Like my late wonderful friend Madeline Albright used to say,
(01:54):
she was an optimist who worries a lot, and so
that kind of describes me. I am optimist stake. I'm
optimistic about our country and its future.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
But it's really up to us. You know. It's Trump
is one person.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And we are many, many millions with different you know,
views and backgrounds, and we want to.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
See the peaceful transfer of power.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We want to see leaders who are in it for us,
not for themselves. Everything that is really at the root
of this campaign. And when I gave that concession speech, clearly,
you know, I was hoping for the best and.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
It just was not to be. And the people that.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Really staffed the first Trump White House and the first
Trump government, they were people who had some experience. Again,
I might have disagreed with them, but I've thought of
them as being you know, sensible, you know, people, people
who respected the constitution.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
They are all gone now.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
They are all supporting, you know, Kamala Harris because they
saw firsthand what Trump was like. And the people he
will bring in are people who are true believers, who
are fanatics, who want to be dictators themselves. And that's
what people have to understand. It's not just him, it's
that whole project twenty twenty five crowd that literally wants
(03:29):
to impose their political, partisan and religious views.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
On all the rest of us. And you know, I was.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Raised to cherish, you know, the separation of church and state.
These folks want to demolish it and basically tell us
who we are supposed to worship and how and everything else.
I mean, this is dangerous, dangerous stuff. And I'm glad that,
you know, Project twenty twenty five has sort of pierced
(04:02):
the you know, consciousness of the voting public, because take
a look at it. I mean, why would anybody advocate
for getting rid of the National Weather Service.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Or the Department of Education, or all the civil servants.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Or getting rid of all the civil servants and populating
government with you know, partisans.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Having a litmus test right absolutely, And you know this
is he's tried to distance himself from that well unsuccessfully.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And I mean just just you know, in the last
day or two a video popped up where he was
praising he was at some Heritage Foundation event praising you know,
their work and all the rest of it. You know,
I am the one who said there's a vast right
wing conspiracy in.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Nineteen and.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
You know a lot of people laughed at me or
you know, said, oh my gosh, that's absolutely crazy. Well, no,
it's absolutely true, and you could see it playing out.
And now it's not really a conspiracy. It's all out
in public. We're going to tell you what we're going
to do to you. We're going to tell you, you know,
what we expect from you. And in the book, I
(05:19):
write about waking up the day after a Trump victory
and just seeing what's going on in the country and
leading with you know, military troops in our streets, you know,
breaking into businesses and homes to round up people they
think are here illegally in order to deport them. And
(05:42):
can you imagine, I mean, the kind of chaos and
terrible outcomes that would be a result of that kind
of military occupation of American cities. And so people need
to take it seriously and look at this project twenty
twenty five. And not only that, just listen to Trump
because he says it. He says it all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I want to run through some really important issues, not
exactly a lightning round, but we have a fair amount
to cover. First, reproductive rights, you warned on the Senate
floor during Justice Alito's confirmation hearings in two thousand and six. This,
this nomination could well be the tipping point against constitutionally
based freedoms and protections we cherish as individuals and as
(06:27):
a nation. I fear that Judge Alito will roll back
decades of progress.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Roe v.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Wade is at risk. The privacy of Americans is at risk.
Environmental safeguards, laws that protect workers from abuse or negligence,
laws even that keep machine guns off the street. All
these and many others are in peril. You take no
joy out of being prescient, do you no?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know, as a Senator, I got to vote on
both John Roberts and Samuel Alito, and as part of
that process, I interviewed them both, which is, you know,
the way senators get their own, you know, ideas about
(07:13):
who these candidates are that the President has nominated. And
I found both of them to be, you know, really
on agenda's basically, and you know, Roberts was much more
gracious and affable. If you read the long story in
(07:34):
the New York Times in the last day or so,
you know, clearly on an agenda that you know he
is now driving, including this incredibly dangerous immunity decision with Alito,
there was no hiding it.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He was clearly a results.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oriented jurist who was going to use the Supreme Court
to reverse a lot of what many of us believed
has been progress over the last fifty years, some of
which you know, I mentioned on the floor of the
Senate and I was I was very worried about him
(08:17):
because of that. Again, he is driven by cultural and
religious beliefs about how society should be structured based on
his own opinion, not the law.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
His opinion, like the opinion in the Dobbs decision.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
As a recovering lawyer and law professor, I found it,
you know, absolutely weak and totally results oriented. I want
to get to this and I don't care what the
precedent is. I don't care what the you know, the
law basically says. I want you to pay attention to
what Justice Elena Kagan said at NYU this week, because
(08:58):
what she said echoes what Justice Thomas and Alito have
certainly hinted, and that is left to their own devices.
Other landmark decisions, whether it's the Loving decision on interracial marriage,
the gay marriage decision, the contraception decision. I'm not saying
(09:22):
this I am referencing Justice Kagan. Those are all on
the agenda for this court to reverse. So they will say,
if you look at the logic in the Dobbs case,
and I have a whole chapter on Dobbs and democracy
in the book, if you look at that decision, they
(09:44):
basically say, well, you know, none of this was in
the original intent of the Constitution.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
That is their.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Rationale, made up rationale. This whole theory of originalism is
made up to get to the results that they want
to further their political, cultural, religious, and financial interests. And
so they are gunning for other rights that have been expanded.
And if they throw those rights back to the states
(10:18):
so that gay marriage, contraception IVF, interracial marriage all of
a sudden becomes a state issue, then man, we are
in for a terrible, terrible reversal of people's basic freedoms.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And we can't let that happen.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
And they could still try to do cases like that
even with a president Harris, but we would have a
president and hopefully a democratic House and Senate to prevent
the worst of this court from coming into effect.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
If you want to get smarter every morning with a
breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
wellness and pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter,
Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You
(11:32):
know you write in your book the Republicans Plan in
terms of overturning Roe v. Wade, the Republicans Plan seems
to have backfired and turned their long sought holy grail
into a poison chalice.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
You know, what.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Impact do you think this is going to have on
the election. It already seems to have galvanized women. The
gender gap is huge. How do you think it will
What will the ramifications become November?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
They are going to be that, you know, women and
the men who understand the importance of this issue turn
out and vote overwhelmingly for Democrats, not just Kamala and Tim,
but Senate and House Democrats. Because I will predict you
sitting here on this stage, pay no attention to what
(12:21):
Trump says about a national abortion ban, because if he
has a Republican Congress, if he's in the White House,
they will pass a national abortion ban and he will
sign it. And they will also pass laws that criminalize
women from leaving state, you know, states to get medical care.
They will pass laws like Louisiana pass criminalizing not criminalizing,
(12:43):
but putting on Schedule one with very dangerous drugs, the
you know, abortion medication.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
They will do all of that.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Even though they don't represent a majority by any means
of the people in our country. And you can see
they don't even represent a majority in most states from
nearly all states. So in the book, when I write
about Dobbs and democracy, there's a line in Alito's decision
which is, well, women are not without political power. Basically,
(13:11):
let's just go out and show us that you know,
you don't like our decision. Well, starting in Kansas after
that decision, people turned out and showed that they were
not going to give in to that kind of political intimidation.
And in every state, every state, the reddest states like
(13:32):
Ohio and Montana and Kentucky, when abortion has been on
the ballot, it has passed because people do not want
the government and they sure don't want jd Vance.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Telling you what kind of medical care you can have.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Having said that, Hillary, how realistic is a federal law
gearing a woman's right to an abortion?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Could that actually happen? Yes?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
And you know it could happen for several reasons. Those
of you who are lawyers, you know, there's the supremacy clause.
I mean, federal legislation is given, you know, pre eminence
over state law. So, for example, there is a law
(14:27):
in our country that the Biden administration is attempting to
enforce which says that people who show up at emergency
rooms must be taken in and given the health care
that they deserve. Now, it's a kind of relic, if
you will, of the you know, times of segregation, and
(14:47):
so people you know who are black or brown or
other minorities showing up in emergency rooms and being sent away.
So the federal government stepped in and said, you know,
you have to do this. So there are big fights
going on and one is on the way to this
Supreme Court because basically Texas said, no, we don't buy that.
You know, we have our own laws. We're going to
(15:08):
enforce our own laws, and we're not going to abide
by this national law about requiring emergency care. Now. I
don't know if you just saw that the first verified
death of a woman seeking pregnancy care that required an
abortion to save her life because she was in sepsis
in Georgia.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
She died.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We've had women lose their fertility, We've had women being
you know, very physically and emotionally damaged because they were
denied medical care. But we now have at least one
and maybe two verifiable cases because physicians are afraid of
going to jail. And so when a woman comes in
with a pregnancy in crisis, and there are many reasons
(15:53):
why that can happen, the doctors are reluctant to care
for her if, depending upon the state, there is still
a heartbeat, there could be no brain, the baby can
be dying and poisoning the mother, and they still won't intervene,
often until it's too late.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
You know, my daughter and I have a.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Production company called Hidden Light, and we produced a film
called Zorowski Versus Texas, which is about three really brave
women in.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Texas who sued the.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Government of Texas because they were denied the care they needed.
One woman was literally, you know, bleeding out, another woman
was forced to carry a dead baby to term, and
another woman had to leave the state.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
These are not hypotheticals. Thousands and thousands and thousands.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Of women in these states are experiencing these kinds of
medical crises. So you can have national laws that then
have to be enforced. Obviously, the states try to find,
you know, federal judges that mostly Trump put on the
bend who will agree with them. But eventually you could
get to codifying Roe v. Wade, bringing Roe v. Wade
(17:07):
back by a national law, and trying to save women's lives,
and trying to give doctors and nurses permission to actually
help women and not be afraid that they'll end up
in jail.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I think those personal stories have to be told more.
And the so called abortion after birth that Donald Trump
keeps talking about, I'm like, that's called homicide. And finally
he was corrected during the ABC debate. So thank you
Lindsey Davis for that. I could talk to you for
(17:50):
like eight hours, you know, But I feel like, since
we're approaching the anniversary, we need to talk about October seventh.
I know you've joined the faculty at Columbia, you were
teaching last year when the attacks happened. How frustrating is
it that we're approaching the one year mark. Twelve hundred
(18:13):
Israelis killed, more than two hundred taken hostage, and by
some estimates, forty thousand Palestinians killed Now some people say
that's too low, some people say that's too high. But
one thing is certain, there doesn't seem to be a
resolution in sight.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, Katie, I think is certainly enormous effort being exercised
as we speak, because I do speak with people in
our government and occasionally people in other governments, about trying
to get to a cease fire, trying to get the
hostages back, trying to come up with a plan that
(18:56):
would free Gaza of a moss have a different Palestinian
government there, provide financial help to rebuild Gaza, have security
perhaps from Arab nations that would come to make sure
that you know, the people there could be free from intimidation.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
That all has to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
And I know that even this week there is a
huge effort underway that not just the United States governments involved,
but the governments of Egypt and Cutter and European governments
all trying to.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Get to this ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Now I have the experience of having negotiated a ceasefire
between Israel and Hamas in November of twenty twelve, and
it was while I was Secretary of State and Hamas
was firing rockets and killing Israelis, and Yahoo was the
Prime minister then just as now, and was planning a
(20:01):
ground invasion of Gaza. And so I was actually with
President Obama in Cambodia at a different meeting of Asian countries,
and so he and I talked about it, and I
flew from Cambodia to Israel and negotiated with the Israeli government,
went to Ramala to negotiated with the Palestinian authority. And
(20:24):
there was a new government in Egypt which was headed
by a president from the Muslim Brotherhood, and people didn't
know him well and they hadn't really tested him. And
I went to Cairo and negotiated with him, and he
did the right thing of you know, working with and
(20:44):
putting pressure on Hamas for a ceasefire.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
So we got a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
But it was intense effort and it wasn't anything like
the horrors of October seventh. So I know how hard
this is and how difficult, you know, the underlying issues are.
But I've got every hope that maybe we can get
to a ceasefire, and if we do, I think it's
(21:10):
possible that we could see some you know, really positive
uh commitments from Arab countries in the Gulf primarily uh
to be good partners in trying to help the Palestinians.
So that that's, you know, that base, that's based on
(21:30):
conversations I had as late as yesterday, and you know,
let's hope that they can get that done.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I'm going to spend the last ten minutes or so,
I told your team I may go over a little.
Rachel Maddow can wait right. I wanted to focus on
a few more personal aspects hillary of your book. You know,
one of the things that has helped you throughout your
life the ups and downs, is a circle of female friends,
(22:25):
many of whom you've had over a lifetime, your sister friends,
as Mia Angelou would say. Talk about why they've been
so important to you. I know you recently took a
trip to Vegas to see Adele.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I want to hear all about that trip.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Or is this a case of what happens in Vegas
stays in Vegas?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Was it like the female version of the hangover? Oh
what stays in Vegas?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yes, you know, I have been blessed with a circle
of friends, as you say, Katie. In the book, I
write about some of my friends literally going back to
kindergarten and elementary and high school, and then so many
other friends over the course of my life, and and
(23:11):
literally I cannot imagine having lived the life I've lived
without having the friends that I've had. They have lifted
me up, they have kept me going, They have given
me advice.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Sometimes I didn't want to hear it, but I did.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And I have to say I was listening to Lyssa
when she came out. You know, I hired Lyssa to
work for me in the White House and she's been
a friend and a colleague ever since. And it's almost
impossible for me to think about taking on all of
these challenges that I've tried to address without my friends.
(23:47):
And my friends are you know, so important to me.
They show up for me. They you know, like the
like the Adele story. You know, one of you know,
three of my friends called me up shortly before my
birthday last year and basically started the conversation by saying,
you are really going to be old. I said, boy,
(24:11):
I could have gone all day without hearing that. And
after ribbing me some more because I'm older than they are,
they said, hey, you know I think girls trip. Yeah,
we're going to Vegas, we bought the tickets, We've done everything,
and you know, it's that kind and I try to
do it for them too. It's that kind of you know,
(24:32):
support and love that has just made you know, made
my life so rich and wonderful.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
But you know, one of the trade offs being open
and vulnerable and close to people is you know, we're
starting to lose some of those people. And I know
you lost your lifelong best friend Betsy, who died of
breast cancer in twenty nineteen. It was just a little
over a month after you lost your brother Tony. And
(25:01):
this is something we all have to deal with. As
you know, I lost my husband when he was forty
two and my sister in the span of five years.
And I just have to mention I so remember, we'll
always remember how kind you were.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Hillary.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Not only did you host an important event about coaling
cancer at the White House shortly after Jay died, but
you invited my sister Emily and me to have tea
with you at the White House when she was battling
pancreatic cancer and she had to drop out of the
race for Lieutenant governor. She was running with Mark Warner
(25:37):
in the state of Virginia. A lot of people thought
Emily would be the first female governor of Virginia. So
I'm curious, you know, the lessons you've learned. How you know,
I've learned a lot, but how you've been able to
cope with these tremendous losses that unfortunately we all experience
(25:58):
and experience more of as we get older.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know, Katie, I think about you losing your husband
and losing your sister, and uh, she was so dynamic,
and you too, were just incredible together.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
She was the real star of our family. Well you both, you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Both had you know, just so much personality and intelligence
and just fun and and you know that's something lost,
something gained. You know, I really think a lot about
all the people in my life that I've lost. And
you know, my my late brother Tony. You know, my
(26:37):
sister in law's here and one of his children as here,
and you know, it was just way too soon. And
I think about him all the time. I think about
you know, his you know, funny expressions and you know
the kind of jokes he used to tell, and growing
up with him, even though I was older, and I
(26:59):
and I, as you say, I mean, in a space
of three months, I lost a really close friend, Ellen Tausher,
former congresswoman from California, who also worked for me in
the state Department. Then I lost Tony, that I lost Betsy,
and it truly does just it just you know, it
just strikes your heart that you know, these are people
that were so much a part of your life and
(27:23):
they're gone, and I think about them all the time.
I write about my mother and my father. I mean
they've been you know, gone a while too, my dad longer.
And it's just part of life. And part of the
way that I think about it is showing up for
other people when they lose somebody because you just sharing
(27:47):
that experience, sharing the you know, the the grief that
comes with saying goodbye to somebody, telling stories that make
you laugh because you know there's always something to remember
about someone, you know, it just helps ease the pain.
And I think, you know, you went on to be
(28:07):
so focused on colon cancer and it was a way
of you know, taking your grief and putting it to
work to try to help other people. And so I
feel very much the same way. I mean, how do
we try to you know, ease each other's lives rather
than being you know, so negative. How do we try
(28:28):
to find the joy in life? And how do we
try to help each other?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I remember when my mom died, my minister called me.
This always makes me sound like I go to church
all the time, but I really don't, but I do sometimes.
And he called and he said, those who love love
deeply grief deeply. And it kind of switched turned to
(28:54):
switch in me and made me go from feeling feelings
so over was sorrow and it made me feel so
much gratitude that I was able to love and be
loved so intensely that the loss affected me so profoundly.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
If that makes sense, it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
And you know, there's a wonderful quote from Thornton Wilder
in the Bridge of San Luis, Rey where he said,
you know, there's the land of the living and the
land of the dead, but the bridge is love. I mean,
just because somebody's gone, you don't stop loving that person.
You don't stop thinking about that person, you don't stop
(29:37):
remembering special moments with that person. And I think that
you know, your minister, who's probably had to say that
to a lot of people, understood exactly what needed to
be said, so that you could feel that the grief
was part of the fact that you had loved Jay
(29:58):
so much. I mean, you know, I I really write
about my faith in this book too, because it's gotten
me through a lot. My friends and my faith have
been incredible support systems for me. And when you go
through hard times with people, you know, you need, whether
(30:19):
you're religious or not, you need to kind of fill
your mind and your heart with the wisdom of other
people so that you have something to fall back on
and you're not just taking that journey by yourself.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
You write a lot about Bill, who's now writing his
own book. You talk about your relationship, which is really interesting,
which I think has been more scrutinized, the most scrutinized
relationship in history. Thanks after a little teaser, we're almost
out of time, but I spy a little friendship bracelet
(30:55):
on that left wrist.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yes, a young woman in the crowd gave these to me,
and I love I love having them because you know what,
I love Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Seem somebody tweeted the opposite today, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Or yesterday, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Do you think her endorsement will have an impact on
the election? I mean hundreds of thousands of people visited
that website to at least consider registering to vote. Right,
we don't know if they actually did.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Absolutely, Look, I think you know I am you know,
I am somebody who believes there are many, many, many
different doors that can open to bring somebody to voting
and voting for a particular candidate, And.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
And celebrities can do that.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You know, somebody who may may not think much about voting,
you know, it's just not you know, they're young, or
they're busy, or whatever the reason might be. You know,
that can break through and they can stop and think, wow.
You know what Taylor Swift said in her endorsement is
she did her research and you know, talked about why
she made that decision. So you know, somebody who admires her,
(32:17):
who's a fan of hers, reading that say, oh well,
maybe that, you know, can influence me to think about it.
So yeah, I think all of that makes a difference.
It's these elections are so close, they're all on the margins,
and anything that can inspire somebody to actually vote and
hopefully vote, you know, for their own future, which means
voting for you know, the vice president.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
To me, that's good. That's all to the good.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
And if if Kamala Harris is elected, can you envision
a role for yourself in a Harris administration?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
No, no, no, no, but what I what I canon
vision is to be as helpful as possible. You know, her,
her sister's a friend of mine, she worked for me
in my twenty sixteen campaign. Her husband as friends with
my husband and my son in law and my daughter.
(33:13):
I mean we really feel, you know, very connected to
her and her family.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
So you hosted a number of dinners for her at
your house when.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, I mean I hosted a dinner and she was
vice president at the beginning. Yeah, and you know Doug
has been over to our house.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean yes, we really, we really think these you know,
are too remarkable and wonderful people. And so yeah, I
will do everything I can to help and every way.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So well, Hillary Clinton, such a pleasure, such an honor.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The book is something lost, something Gang. Thank you so
so much. I hope you enjoyed the book.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a question for me,
a subject you want us to cover, or you want
to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,
reach out You can leave a short message at six
h nine five P one two five five five, or
you can send me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media.
The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.
Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are
Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music.
For more information about today's episode, or to sign up
(34:49):
for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description
in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com.
You can also find me on Instagram and all my
social media channel. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Host
Katie Couric
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