October 24, 2019 • 29 mins
She’s been a fixture on the big screen for more than two decades, but Jennifer Garner has managed to remain about as un-Hollywood as it gets. She isn’t afraid to be goofy on Instagram (see: her pretend cooking show), she talks to her sisters almost every day, and she refuses to rest on her laurels, pouring everything she has into new projects—like Once Upon a Farm, a company dedicated to making high-quality food available to all families (not just the ones who can afford it). On this episode of Next Question, she opens up to Katie about diving into the world of business for the first time and her biggest priority of all: raising happy, healthy kids in the face of unruly paparazzi and hurtful tabloid headlines.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I
Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie
Curic and welcome to Next Question, where we try to
understand the complicated world we're living in and the crazy
things that are happening by asking questions and by listening
to people who really know what they're talking about. At times,
it may lead to some pretty uncomfortable conversations, but stick
(00:24):
with me, everyone, Let's all learn together. Born in Texas
and raised in West Virginia, Jennifer Garner radiates girl next
Door charm. If the girl next door to you happens
to be a gorgeous A list movie star, She's played
a CIA agent. I'll be there in two minutes. A
(00:46):
thirteen year old trapped in a thirty year old body.
Yesterday was my thirteenth birthday, and then today I woke
up and I'm this and a doctor in search of
a cure for AIDS. The purpose of this study is
to determine if as T is helping people colony me. No,
there ain't no helping me. It doesn't be no we
to stop trying. She's wrapped up four Emmy nominations as
(01:06):
well as a Golden Globe, and she's also an ambassador
for Save the Children. Now she's playing the role of entrepreneur.
She's co founded Once Upon a Farm, which serves up organic,
healthy baby food. Meanwhile, she's serving up meals of her
own on her pretend cooking show on Instagram. This piece
(01:26):
of tappius trying to mess with my head. Clearly she's
got a lot on her plate. So my next question is,
could Jennifer Garner be as nice as she seems. I
recently met up with her in Boston to find out.
So let's talk about your kids for a moment, because
I really admire how you protect your kids, and I
(01:47):
think that's hard for people who are in the public eye.
So you have three great kids, Violet, Sarafina and Samuel,
their and seven, and I know that maintaining their privacy
is really important, especially in this era of social media
gen where people are plastering their kids all over the place.
So to see, it's fun to see, and I know
(02:09):
it's out of love, but I actually think about this
whole idea of sharantine, you know, is that something that
is ultimately going to be really healthy for a way
a child sees himself for herself. I'm curious why you
made that decision. It kills me because of course I
want to share them. I'm I'm so proud of them,
and I think they're really funny and cute. The real
(02:29):
thing is that there is no judgment in what other
people do. It is such a personal choice, and there's
no saying who's right and who's wrong. I certainly don't
don't stand on any kind of high horse um, but
my kids, we really were hunted for, you know, for
for so long, and it's I am not a way
(02:51):
person who put myself out in public and then said
why are you taking pictures of me? But it was
so out of control and it it really marked my
children's experience out in the world and who it's shaped
two they became in certain ways. It was such a
problem that in two thousand thirteen, Jennifer appeared before the
(03:11):
California Legislature. I don't want a gang of shouting, arguing,
law breaking photographers who camp out everywhere we are all day,
every day to continue traumatizing my kids. Thank you for
the opportunity to testify today. Sorry, I'd be happy to
answer any questions. I fought very very hard. Um halle
(03:35):
Berry was the leader, but I fought, you know, as
her soldier testified, testified, and we hosted gatherings at our
house for law enforcement to hear about the new law.
And my daughter, who was five or six at the time,
stood up and gave a speech she had written about
the experience of being a child confronted with these huge cameras.
(03:55):
And so it just feels hypocritical to me to have
done that and been, you know, put myself out there
in that way and then turn around and use my
own children for my gain. Well, to hear your little
girl's speech at five or six in front of a
whole crowd, that must have been it was her first
time speaking in front of anyone, and it was something
that she There are a few kids who have that
(04:17):
kind of authority about what it's like to have huge
men with huge cameras running at your face all the time,
and she was she was very articulate about it. And
you all had success because the law was passed in
two thousand thirteen. Tell me what that law says and
if it's in fact change things. The law says that
paparazzi cannot lie and wait outside your home outside of
(04:40):
a school, you know. I would get to the pediatrician's
office and be running in with a sick child in
my arms, and they'd be blocking my entrance and I'd say,
please guys, let me through, Please let me. I never
had fewer than six cars running red lights behind me
doing anything to be with me. And on weekends it
would be menacing money. It was. It's such a bummer.
It's like a bummer even to talk about, because you'd
us feel like why give it attention? But it did help,
(05:03):
and it helped quite a bit. There's still a few
at school, and someday I they when they least expected,
I'm going to have him arrested. They really congregate at church,
which is a security issue for us, and that is
something that I have trouble with. But they know they're
going to get a shot. They know the shot will
sell at church every Sunday. And it was the barrier
for me taking my children to church for so long.
(05:24):
I just didn't want to. I didn't want to put
us all through it. And then I just had a
conversation with myself and decided to just go for it.
And it is what I thought it would be. But
they marched through. They really love their church, so it's okay. Well,
you know, nothing I don't think prepares you for raising
your kids in this environment, and especially because you had
(05:45):
such a different upbringing. I know, you were born in Houston,
you moved to West Virginia when you were three years old,
to Charleston. Your dad was a chemical engineer. Your mom
was a homemaker who later became an English teacher. My
getting all this right? Okay? Good? And I think the
way you were raised, and we talked about it a
little bit earlier today, was so anathetical to the environment
(06:06):
that you kind of are in, and that the way
you could potentially be sucked into raising your kids. If
this is making any sense, I laughed. You said you
were raised almost Amish, And what did you mean by that?
I mean that might not have zippers. I know, we
could have zippers and buttons, that that we were allowed,
not just straight pins. But we couldn't purm our hair.
(06:27):
My ears aren't pierced. We couldn't wear makeup or you know,
have neo polish on. That's just my dad. He just
wanted us to be very simple girls. There was no
emphasis in my house on looks. It was who you were.
It was practiced your piano and do your homework and
go to ballet class and go to college. Go to college.
We all knew we were going to go to college,
(06:48):
which is a big deal since my parents they were
the first of their entire families to go. And you're
the middle sister, you have any the middle child neurosis
that sometimes happen, and little children don't have neurosis, Katie,
because then you're the youngest. Let me let me point
out that middle children are the most well adjusted. Contrary
(07:09):
to my history, the we we are the peacemakers, were
flexible and we do and this is true as well.
Want attention. I have one sister who's a c p
A and one who is in marketing, and I'm the
one who's like, yucky, yucky, yucky, look at me. That's unusual,
isn't it for the middle child. I think the middle
(07:32):
usually once feels like they've kind of got left out
because their sandwich between the oldest and the youngest a
little bit. Yeah, that's so funny. Are you close to
your sister's very close to both of them. I've spoken
to both of them in the last twenty four hours.
And I know that Nicole, your manager, who I had
so much fun talking to recently at a dinner, I
think not only kind of protecting your kids from outside forces,
(07:54):
but you also have to protect your kids from stuff
that's written about you and them and they're dad. You
just don't read anything. She said. Oh, I am so
serious about it. You know, when you just realize that
something is making you so unhappy. And anything that I
saw in print about myself my family at all was
(08:15):
just it mattered to me too much. And you don't
have control over it. There's nothing you can do. And
I just made a decision. I am never going to
see my name in print if I can help it.
Other than like, if it's the New York Times, if
you want to talk about Once upon a Farm, I'm in.
But this morning, when I saw my name in the
Your wake Up Call, I was thrilled. But otherwise I
(08:36):
don't look at a lot of sites. I used to
love Huffington Post, CNN. They have a celebrity part of
them and I just can't see it. And what about
your kids? You know, it's funny because my daughters get
anxious about social media. One in particular, she has sort
of a phobia about it. Do you worry about the
prevalence of social media and how ubiquitous it is and
(08:58):
your kids like not wanting too, but somehow seeing stuff
for even the role is playing in the lives of
children everywhere without even having parents who are well known.
I worry about all kids having to deal with this
new pressure. My daughters at an all girls school, and
it's such a huge problem. And she'll occasionally talk to
me about getting Instagram and I can see why because
(09:21):
I'm on there and it's something kind of fun that
I do, and I am I am modeling the opposite
of what I want for her to do. How I
is that in parenting? And I just say, when you
can show me studies that say that teenage girls are
happier using Instagram than not, then we can have the conversation.
But everything you look at I don't see anything positive
(09:43):
for you out there. You can look at mine when
you want to. We can go over it together, but
I just don't see it. Tell me a little bit
about your use of Instagram. My name is jenn I'm
We're having it for time, Compisa, because I think you're
so great at it and everything is very authentic and
fun and your pretend cooking show and sort of the
(10:04):
things you share. Some of this personally, pardon me, it's
been brought to my intention that does the cilantro. Not personally,
I do feel like, actually, I know you now is
about you. I know it is in a way. It's
so nice. It is. It makes you feel more connected.
It does. I joined Instagram because of Once upon a Farm.
(10:25):
It was very much part of the deal and I
did it kicking and screaming. But that's how much I
wanted to be involved with this company. And when I
did it, you know, there are all these companies in
l A that will come in and do your social
media for you, and I just said, I can't do that.
I can't introduce something like that. So I have had
the same woman working with me from that mode this
(10:48):
morning for six mo what started as my assistant six
and a half years ago, and I just kind of
are different things that her friends have gotten married at
my house and I've said you're the wedding planner or
you know, kind of whatever I tossed her way. She's amazing.
So MO was a natural to curate on a first
(11:10):
Instagram feed. So she was a film major at Northwestern
and I said, you are doing this with me, and
we're going to do it. I said, I have to
be able to do this my way. I can't like
post three things a day plus story plus this plus it.
I just can't do it. So I just put out
there what felt right for me, and that's what I
keep doing. And sometimes we'll go a week and put
(11:30):
up one or you know, we don't announce it. We
just do it. I took a digital detox for a
week and I stayed off social media just because I
felt like mischievous thank you, But I sort of felt
like it was an added pressure in a way. I mean,
I love it, but I also feel like, oh gosh,
I better do something. So it's kind of a mixed bag,
isn't it. It is definitely an added pressure. There is
(11:52):
no doubt about that. It is a job, especially the
way we approach it. We kind of we go for
it and produce things and and do it. I'm with
Mo all the time anyway, and we're so close. People
think we're sisters all the time, which is a huge
compliment to me. But she's always got her phone on.
You know she films me doing dumb things, and then
she's such a great editor that she turns it into something.
(12:14):
We're going to take a quick break here, but when
we come back, we'll hear more from Jennifer about building
a business from the ground up, her love of food,
and our mutual celebrity crush. As a longtime ambassador for
Save the Children, Jennifer Garner is a fierce advocate for
(12:35):
kids in some of America's most underserved communities. Two years ago,
she decided to approach the issue of childhood hunger from
a different angle, joining the board of a small, mission
driven startup aimed at making high quality, organic baby food
affordable for all families. I asked her about what it's
like to immerse herself in the world of business. I
(12:57):
just think what you're doing is such an interesting new
chapter for you. You're learning about business and how to
run a company, and so you're getting a whole new
skill set, which must be both daunting but also really gratifying.
So gratifying. I'm sure you have felt this way. I'm
sure I see you doing it now where you think, Okay,
(13:18):
this is what I know how to do, sort of ish,
can I expand on that what more can I ask
of myself but still be me? I couldn't have a
better mentor and buddy to do it with. But I
do sit in meetings and write down everything and circle
the things I don't know, and some are just basic
business terms. I really never took a business class. People
(13:39):
kept talking about the r O. I I didn't know
what it was amidst return on investment and I did
not know net versus gross. And I still get confused
if I don't if I have to think about it,
because I never learned it organically. I've learned it in
the process of this. But I think it's so important,
especially for women, to understand business better, because I do
(14:00):
think it holds us back. But I know I never
felt very confident in my business acumen or knowledge, and
I think if I had a better foundation, it would
have helped me in a myriad of ways professionally. So
I think some basic business things are really important, especially
for girls. I think they seem to be afraid of
(14:21):
it a little. The other side of that is that
I think that we can't be afraid to be beginners
at any stage in your life. And I try to
always have something that I'm a beginner on, like I
started tennis lessons for the first time in my life
last week, or I learned to ski when I was forty,
or you know, and so you you've got a fight
for being a beginner and not let yourself be embarrassed.
And I just am wholeheartedly a novice and thrilled about it.
(14:45):
I love that. I'm going to put that, like on
a bumper sticker on a I like that. And when
it comes to developing the products, gen, I think it
must be really fun. Actually, because you love to cook.
You have your pretend cooking show on Instagram, which I
loved watch. You can tell you get real joy out
of cooking and being in the kitchen and preparing things
for your kids. I think you didn't you make bagels
(15:07):
not too long ago. Who would like the first bagel?
I like to take on occasionally a big project like bagels.
My little sister made croissant. How do you say so recently?
And I said, I don't think I can do that.
I bet you could. I'd like to just say, I
wonder if I could. You know, John cans tomatoes and
I was just talking to him in the car this
(15:28):
morning and saying Okay, I'm ready to do this. Tell
me exactly what to do, and this weekend I'm going
to go home and can tomatoes. For sure. John is
John Forker, the CEO of their company, Once Upon a Farm.
You'll meet him a little bit later. And so as
part of that, I guess you get to try foods,
suggest foods, and are the networks banging on your door
(15:48):
to do a real cooking show and not just to
pretend cooking show? I can't imagine you haven't been approached.
Come on, I mean, you know in a garden are
common crash. It is an homage to Aina and to
Barefoot Contesta and the comfort that I get and how
much I've learned about cooking from her, and and from
Martha Stewart before her, and from this whole genre. But
(16:11):
I don't know enough to fill an hour or how.
I don't know. I think it would be great. And Aina,
I mean she is pretty amazing, isn't she amazing? Talk
about somebody who knows business? She is so smart that woman.
Has she given you any tips on this business? Yeah?
I think I had a similar conversation that that you
were talking about with her about how to hire people.
(16:33):
I loved that you brought that up Inna says high
or happy, because you can teach someone how to about
about cheese, but you can't teach them how to be happy.
And there there is something about that, you know. If
you want to have a teammate, be a teammate, you
kind of have to be in it with everyone. I
think people get their energy from people around them, and
you want positivity and people to feel like they can do.
(16:58):
And nothing's worse than having a like around you and
an energy sucker or vampire, like they said the worst.
There's so many women who are doing cool entrepreneurial things.
Do you ever talk to like Gwyneth Paltrow or Jessica
all the about business? They're not really so impressed by them.
I'm a little intimidated by them, to be honest. But
(17:18):
but I would talk to them if I were sitting
in the room with them, of course, and be so
fascinated by their journey and why they made the decisions
they've made, and where they see themselves going and how
they see it all kind of working out. But if
I'm really going to talk innovation, I am talking with
John Forker. We talk a lot about everyone in the
(17:40):
organic industry is trying to find the next new high
end product or the next new like ingredient that no
one's thought of before. And we're trying to innovate instead
of up to the tip of the pyramid, down and
out so that it's available for everyone. And I think
we're trying to push our colleagues to do the same.
Purpose driven companies are now kind of everywhere, And I
(18:00):
guess my only cautionary note, not that I'm an expert
on any of this, is that when companies are inauthentic
and they're kind of doing it for their image instead
of for their real heart, right, you know, any good
that you do is still good, even if it is
for the picture on Instagram. I really do believe if
(18:20):
you've done good, you've done good. It's helped someone great.
But if you want people to respond to it, it
sure helps if you mean what you say. It can
be easy to have a pretty cynical outlook on celebrity
driven brands, but after spending just a few minutes with Jennifer,
it was clear that she isn't just doing this for
(18:43):
the Graham. She and the rest of her Once upon
a Farm colleague seem to really care deeply about their work,
and it shows especially in their efforts to make sure
that their food is available to people who rely on
government assistance. We'll have more on that right after this.
(19:06):
Once Upon a Farm is rethinking nutrition for kids, and
rethinking it in a way that if eighteen thousand stores
carries fresh pet food, and yet the baby food that
you buy is older than the baby that you're feeding
it too, there is something wrong with the way we
have grown to accept what we're feeding our children. So
we are putting out their farm fresh full of nutrition,
(19:29):
full of bright, vibrant flavors and colors, and food for
babies in the refrigerated section. I wanted to hear more
about the company, so I asked John Forker, the CEO
of Once Upon a Farm, what attracted him to this venture.
You were the CEO of Annie's, which was one of
the front runners or the leaders in this space. Why
(19:50):
did you say, you know, this is so exciting, I'm
going to quit my old job and start something totally new.
My old job was a lot easier than this. Um
there's the personal challenge of like trying to do something
big again and seeing a big need that Jen just
alluded to that there's an opportunity to do just a
(20:10):
lot better for babies and to partner with a really
small team of really passionate people and see how much
change we could drive and not just for rich kids
in Beverly Hills or San Francisco or New York, but
for all kids. And that was just too big of
an opportunity to pass up. That is such a key
(20:31):
phrase when it comes to your company, all kids, and Jen,
that came from your work was saved the children. I
know you were exposed to really deplorable situations for a
lot of kids in this country, and you thought, this
isn't right, this isn't fair. Tell us did you have
an AHA moment about this? It's more of a combination
(20:53):
of small AHAs. There there's the aha of everywhere that
I've gone in the country for save the children, and
I've gone back again and again and again in the
eleven years I've worked for them, whether it's Connault Nation
at the very tip top of Washington State, or South Carolina, Mississippi,
West Virginia, Kentucky, or all over California or d C
(21:16):
or Vermont, or I've criss crossed the country visiting the
poorest areas in the rural parts of those states, and
I have just seen the similarities and the differences, and
the way that we fundraise over the last eleven years
has changed so that we're pushing and looking for businesses
to lead in a way that we didn't used to. Um.
We used to rely even eleven years ago, much more
(21:38):
on government, and we still do. We're a public private partnership,
but business has to lead. So then you eventually feel
like we'll shoot, then I better be a business. So,
in addition to our work was saved the children, Gen decided,
I'm tired of asking other people for money. I better
get in there myself and make a change that I
want to see. Talk about how you're making your affordable,
(22:00):
which obviously is the cornerstone. Jen, your mom grew up
on a rural farm in Oklahoma, and now the family
farm is actually providing some of the produce for the
food that you're making, which is a great full circle,
but it is very challenging in terms of accessibility to
let underserved families have access to this food and make
(22:22):
it so they can afford it. Can you give us
the cliff notes John about the process you have to
go through. The cliff notes is there's a federal program
that's menasured by the states called the Women, Infant Children
Health Program, and it allows underserved communities and families to
get access to fresh foods and vegetables and baby food
and other things. And so we decided very early on,
(22:43):
in fact day one, that we decided to do this together,
that we were going to make fresh baby food available
under the WIT program in every state we possibly could.
I talked to a few people about that idea who
have been the food industry with me for a long time,
and they said, you're insane, Like that's not going to happen.
We had to completely re genero supply chain. We had
to think about where things are made, where the vegetables
(23:04):
and fruits are coming from. Because of proximity to the stores.
In any package food, a lot of the cost is
not actually the food itself, it's everything else. It's the transportation,
it's the packaging. So we redesigned with the same great
ingredients to develop a line of products that we could
get to a price point and with the right nutritionals
that are required by the federal program to allow us
(23:26):
to be WICK eligible, and so we are WIK eligible
on our core line of these two pack bowls, and
we're now getting those approved in every state that we
can for access to those populations. But it's been quite
a process. And you're approved in six states six states now, right,
And how long do you think it will take John
before you guys can be sold in every state in
the country. I would like it to be tomorrow, but
(23:52):
I think there's fifteen or sixteen states now that allow
organic baby food in their WICK program. We're in about
six now, I think will be in twelve or so
by this time next year. What are some of your
favorite products that you all have done. I'd love to
hear from both of you because right now I'm super
hungry and I just want to hear about some that
you really like. Green kale and apple was one of
(24:13):
our core baby food flavors. It sounds crazy, but like
I snack on it. It's green kale apples. It's amazing,
Like really, that's one of my favorites. They all in pouches.
Most of our line right now is in pouches, but
we're coming into other product formats too, and as Jen mentioned,
we're starting to age out we want to be a
brand that's babies first, foods all the web two about
age twelve, So really like a kid nutrition brand, solving
(24:34):
the lunchbox problem. Helping parents do that. It's very hard
to do, and to build a brand like that across
multiple categories is really hard work. And fresh baby food
didn't exist, and it should have existed years and years ago.
So I think of Baby Boom. Do you remember that movie?
When I hear about the company, I always think about
like I'm just driving around in my station wagon filled
(24:55):
with you know, Mama Bear blueberry. Yeah. I mentioned this
in the Our Bigger Conversation, but I want to mention
it here too. Is there was a woman who wrote
to you on Instagram As an adult, I enjoyed a
few of these in my post chemo misery when eating
was tough. It was a great way to get fruits
and veggies allowed and my immuno suppressed diet. Thank you.
(25:17):
So it's wonderful when you see something you're doing helping
people that you never imagined it would be helping. Right well,
moms whose children have diabetes or who have celiac or
different allergies, I hear from them a lot It's just
nice to feel like you're helping. And is this sort
of your sole focus when you think about your life
five ten years from now. I hate the words vision board,
(25:40):
but everyone seems to use that. Now, what do you
see before you? Happy kids? I just want happy kids
my own selfishly, that's the first thing I see. If
my kids are happy, then I'm okay. But other than that,
my gosh, I see lunch boxes being filled with fresh,
nutritious choices that delight children and that you know, and
(26:03):
that helped create more jobs for sustainable, regenerative agriculture and
great farmers, and I see that going hand in hand.
I probably work as much for safe as I do
on anything else, and so I can't not see in
the future and see, you know, some policy changes that
focus more on poor kids in our country and more
(26:24):
on birth to five. Well, I not only adore you,
I really appreciate everything you do and respect what you're
doing out in the world, and so happy to be
able to have this conversation. Jen Thank you so much.
My time with Jennifer and John was coming to a close,
but as you heard, I was really hungry, and they
(26:44):
happen to bring a few of their products with them. Okay,
what do I do? I smush it around before we go.
I want to try. I'm trying to be a very
very quite contrary, although I'm very excited about Jen and
the Giant Squash, which is coming soon to a store
near you. You guys, how many stores are you available in?
Ten thou ten thousand stores? And then the Giant squash.
(27:06):
It's just squash that has been grown on my tiny
family farm in Oklahoma, so you got to get it online,
and you guys cheers. I'm having Mama Bear Birds apple,
sweet potato, blueberry water, coconut milk, all organic and only
ninety calories fifty. Thank you, Katie, Thank you, Jim, Thank
(27:28):
you John. This sound is someone sucking out of a
pouch on. I know, this is what? What is that
weird thing that m A s A s mr Oh
I write that is so weird. I hate it. This
is me drinking a smoothie. Let's listen to the smoothie.
M I don't get it. That's the weirdest thing ever.
(27:58):
Totally using it. I really really like Jennifer Garner now
I just call her Jen or j G. I thought
she was warm and funny. And authentic, but I also
found her to be really thoughtful and smart. She clearly
cares deeply about her work. Was saved the children, and
(28:20):
I was so impressed by how much time she spent
traveling around the country to see and understand rural poverty
up close. I'd love to do a documentary with her
on the subject one of these days, because it's still
so in the shadows. Clearly, Jen's parents did a great
job raising her. So congratulations Mr and Mrs Garner. If
(28:40):
you're listening and Jen, thank you and everyone. Jennifer Garner
is as nice as she seems. Thanks so much for listening, everyone,
and until we meet again, make sure to follow me
on Instagram. I'm at Katie Curic and sign up for
(29:00):
my daily newsletter. It's called wake Up Call, and you
can do that by going to Katie currek dot com.
Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I
Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are
Katie Kuric, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Julie Douglas, and Tyler Klang.
Our show producers are Bethan Macalooso and Courtney Litz. The
(29:20):
supervising producer is Dylan Fagan. Associate producers are Emily Pinto
and Derek Clemens. Editing is by Dylan Fagan, Derek Clements,
and Lowell Brollante. Our researcher is Barbara Keene. For more
information on today's episode, go to Katie kurrek dot com
and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurk.
(29:43):
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows,
Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I
Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. Hi everyone, I'm Katie
Curic and welcome to Next Question, where we try to
understand the complicated world we're living in and the crazy
things that are happening by asking questions and by listening
to people who really know what they're talking about. At times,
it may lead to some pretty uncomfortable conversations, but stick
(00:24):
with me, everyone, Let's all learn together. Born in Texas
and raised in West Virginia, Jennifer Garner radiates girl next
Door charm. If the girl next door to you happens
to be a gorgeous A list movie star, She's played
a CIA agent. I'll be there in two minutes. A
(00:46):
thirteen year old trapped in a thirty year old body.
Yesterday was my thirteenth birthday, and then today I woke
up and I'm this and a doctor in search of
a cure for AIDS. The purpose of this study is
to determine if as T is helping people colony me. No,
there ain't no helping me. It doesn't be no we
to stop trying. She's wrapped up four Emmy nominations as
(01:06):
well as a Golden Globe, and she's also an ambassador
for Save the Children. Now she's playing the role of entrepreneur.
She's co founded Once Upon a Farm, which serves up organic,
healthy baby food. Meanwhile, she's serving up meals of her
own on her pretend cooking show on Instagram. This piece
(01:26):
of tappius trying to mess with my head. Clearly she's
got a lot on her plate. So my next question is,
could Jennifer Garner be as nice as she seems. I
recently met up with her in Boston to find out.
So let's talk about your kids for a moment, because
I really admire how you protect your kids, and I
(01:47):
think that's hard for people who are in the public eye.
So you have three great kids, Violet, Sarafina and Samuel,
their and seven, and I know that maintaining their privacy
is really important, especially in this era of social media
gen where people are plastering their kids all over the place.
So to see, it's fun to see, and I know
(02:09):
it's out of love, but I actually think about this
whole idea of sharantine, you know, is that something that
is ultimately going to be really healthy for a way
a child sees himself for herself. I'm curious why you
made that decision. It kills me because of course I
want to share them. I'm I'm so proud of them,
and I think they're really funny and cute. The real
(02:29):
thing is that there is no judgment in what other
people do. It is such a personal choice, and there's
no saying who's right and who's wrong. I certainly don't
don't stand on any kind of high horse um, but
my kids, we really were hunted for, you know, for
for so long, and it's I am not a way
(02:51):
person who put myself out in public and then said
why are you taking pictures of me? But it was
so out of control and it it really marked my
children's experience out in the world and who it's shaped
two they became in certain ways. It was such a
problem that in two thousand thirteen, Jennifer appeared before the
(03:11):
California Legislature. I don't want a gang of shouting, arguing,
law breaking photographers who camp out everywhere we are all day,
every day to continue traumatizing my kids. Thank you for
the opportunity to testify today. Sorry, I'd be happy to
answer any questions. I fought very very hard. Um halle
(03:35):
Berry was the leader, but I fought, you know, as
her soldier testified, testified, and we hosted gatherings at our
house for law enforcement to hear about the new law.
And my daughter, who was five or six at the time,
stood up and gave a speech she had written about
the experience of being a child confronted with these huge cameras.
(03:55):
And so it just feels hypocritical to me to have
done that and been, you know, put myself out there
in that way and then turn around and use my
own children for my gain. Well, to hear your little
girl's speech at five or six in front of a
whole crowd, that must have been it was her first
time speaking in front of anyone, and it was something
that she There are a few kids who have that
(04:17):
kind of authority about what it's like to have huge
men with huge cameras running at your face all the time,
and she was she was very articulate about it. And
you all had success because the law was passed in
two thousand thirteen. Tell me what that law says and
if it's in fact change things. The law says that
paparazzi cannot lie and wait outside your home outside of
(04:40):
a school, you know. I would get to the pediatrician's
office and be running in with a sick child in
my arms, and they'd be blocking my entrance and I'd say,
please guys, let me through, Please let me. I never
had fewer than six cars running red lights behind me
doing anything to be with me. And on weekends it
would be menacing money. It was. It's such a bummer.
It's like a bummer even to talk about, because you'd
us feel like why give it attention? But it did help,
(05:03):
and it helped quite a bit. There's still a few
at school, and someday I they when they least expected,
I'm going to have him arrested. They really congregate at church,
which is a security issue for us, and that is
something that I have trouble with. But they know they're
going to get a shot. They know the shot will
sell at church every Sunday. And it was the barrier
for me taking my children to church for so long.
(05:24):
I just didn't want to. I didn't want to put
us all through it. And then I just had a
conversation with myself and decided to just go for it.
And it is what I thought it would be. But
they marched through. They really love their church, so it's okay. Well,
you know, nothing I don't think prepares you for raising
your kids in this environment, and especially because you had
(05:45):
such a different upbringing. I know, you were born in Houston,
you moved to West Virginia when you were three years old,
to Charleston. Your dad was a chemical engineer. Your mom
was a homemaker who later became an English teacher. My
getting all this right? Okay? Good? And I think the
way you were raised, and we talked about it a
little bit earlier today, was so anathetical to the environment
(06:06):
that you kind of are in, and that the way
you could potentially be sucked into raising your kids. If
this is making any sense, I laughed. You said you
were raised almost Amish, And what did you mean by that?
I mean that might not have zippers. I know, we
could have zippers and buttons, that that we were allowed,
not just straight pins. But we couldn't purm our hair.
(06:27):
My ears aren't pierced. We couldn't wear makeup or you know,
have neo polish on. That's just my dad. He just
wanted us to be very simple girls. There was no
emphasis in my house on looks. It was who you were.
It was practiced your piano and do your homework and
go to ballet class and go to college. Go to college.
We all knew we were going to go to college,
(06:48):
which is a big deal since my parents they were
the first of their entire families to go. And you're
the middle sister, you have any the middle child neurosis
that sometimes happen, and little children don't have neurosis, Katie,
because then you're the youngest. Let me let me point
out that middle children are the most well adjusted. Contrary
(07:09):
to my history, the we we are the peacemakers, were
flexible and we do and this is true as well.
Want attention. I have one sister who's a c p
A and one who is in marketing, and I'm the
one who's like, yucky, yucky, yucky, look at me. That's unusual,
isn't it for the middle child. I think the middle
(07:32):
usually once feels like they've kind of got left out
because their sandwich between the oldest and the youngest a
little bit. Yeah, that's so funny. Are you close to
your sister's very close to both of them. I've spoken
to both of them in the last twenty four hours.
And I know that Nicole, your manager, who I had
so much fun talking to recently at a dinner, I
think not only kind of protecting your kids from outside forces,
(07:54):
but you also have to protect your kids from stuff
that's written about you and them and they're dad. You
just don't read anything. She said. Oh, I am so
serious about it. You know, when you just realize that
something is making you so unhappy. And anything that I
saw in print about myself my family at all was
(08:15):
just it mattered to me too much. And you don't
have control over it. There's nothing you can do. And
I just made a decision. I am never going to
see my name in print if I can help it.
Other than like, if it's the New York Times, if
you want to talk about Once upon a Farm, I'm in.
But this morning, when I saw my name in the
Your wake Up Call, I was thrilled. But otherwise I
(08:36):
don't look at a lot of sites. I used to
love Huffington Post, CNN. They have a celebrity part of
them and I just can't see it. And what about
your kids? You know, it's funny because my daughters get
anxious about social media. One in particular, she has sort
of a phobia about it. Do you worry about the
prevalence of social media and how ubiquitous it is and
(08:58):
your kids like not wanting too, but somehow seeing stuff
for even the role is playing in the lives of
children everywhere without even having parents who are well known.
I worry about all kids having to deal with this
new pressure. My daughters at an all girls school, and
it's such a huge problem. And she'll occasionally talk to
me about getting Instagram and I can see why because
(09:21):
I'm on there and it's something kind of fun that
I do, and I am I am modeling the opposite
of what I want for her to do. How I
is that in parenting? And I just say, when you
can show me studies that say that teenage girls are
happier using Instagram than not, then we can have the conversation.
But everything you look at I don't see anything positive
(09:43):
for you out there. You can look at mine when
you want to. We can go over it together, but
I just don't see it. Tell me a little bit
about your use of Instagram. My name is jenn I'm
We're having it for time, Compisa, because I think you're
so great at it and everything is very authentic and
fun and your pretend cooking show and sort of the
(10:04):
things you share. Some of this personally, pardon me, it's
been brought to my intention that does the cilantro. Not personally,
I do feel like, actually, I know you now is
about you. I know it is in a way. It's
so nice. It is. It makes you feel more connected.
It does. I joined Instagram because of Once upon a Farm.
(10:25):
It was very much part of the deal and I
did it kicking and screaming. But that's how much I
wanted to be involved with this company. And when I
did it, you know, there are all these companies in
l A that will come in and do your social
media for you, and I just said, I can't do that.
I can't introduce something like that. So I have had
the same woman working with me from that mode this
(10:48):
morning for six mo what started as my assistant six
and a half years ago, and I just kind of
are different things that her friends have gotten married at
my house and I've said you're the wedding planner or
you know, kind of whatever I tossed her way. She's amazing.
So MO was a natural to curate on a first
(11:10):
Instagram feed. So she was a film major at Northwestern
and I said, you are doing this with me, and
we're going to do it. I said, I have to
be able to do this my way. I can't like
post three things a day plus story plus this plus it.
I just can't do it. So I just put out
there what felt right for me, and that's what I
keep doing. And sometimes we'll go a week and put
(11:30):
up one or you know, we don't announce it. We
just do it. I took a digital detox for a
week and I stayed off social media just because I
felt like mischievous thank you, But I sort of felt
like it was an added pressure in a way. I mean,
I love it, but I also feel like, oh gosh,
I better do something. So it's kind of a mixed bag,
isn't it. It is definitely an added pressure. There is
(11:52):
no doubt about that. It is a job, especially the
way we approach it. We kind of we go for
it and produce things and and do it. I'm with
Mo all the time anyway, and we're so close. People
think we're sisters all the time, which is a huge
compliment to me. But she's always got her phone on.
You know she films me doing dumb things, and then
she's such a great editor that she turns it into something.
(12:14):
We're going to take a quick break here, but when
we come back, we'll hear more from Jennifer about building
a business from the ground up, her love of food,
and our mutual celebrity crush. As a longtime ambassador for
Save the Children, Jennifer Garner is a fierce advocate for
(12:35):
kids in some of America's most underserved communities. Two years ago,
she decided to approach the issue of childhood hunger from
a different angle, joining the board of a small, mission
driven startup aimed at making high quality, organic baby food
affordable for all families. I asked her about what it's
like to immerse herself in the world of business. I
(12:57):
just think what you're doing is such an interesting new
chapter for you. You're learning about business and how to
run a company, and so you're getting a whole new
skill set, which must be both daunting but also really gratifying.
So gratifying. I'm sure you have felt this way. I'm
sure I see you doing it now where you think, Okay,
(13:18):
this is what I know how to do, sort of ish,
can I expand on that what more can I ask
of myself but still be me? I couldn't have a
better mentor and buddy to do it with. But I
do sit in meetings and write down everything and circle
the things I don't know, and some are just basic
business terms. I really never took a business class. People
(13:39):
kept talking about the r O. I I didn't know
what it was amidst return on investment and I did
not know net versus gross. And I still get confused
if I don't if I have to think about it,
because I never learned it organically. I've learned it in
the process of this. But I think it's so important,
especially for women, to understand business better, because I do
(14:00):
think it holds us back. But I know I never
felt very confident in my business acumen or knowledge, and
I think if I had a better foundation, it would
have helped me in a myriad of ways professionally. So
I think some basic business things are really important, especially
for girls. I think they seem to be afraid of
(14:21):
it a little. The other side of that is that
I think that we can't be afraid to be beginners
at any stage in your life. And I try to
always have something that I'm a beginner on, like I
started tennis lessons for the first time in my life
last week, or I learned to ski when I was forty,
or you know, and so you you've got a fight
for being a beginner and not let yourself be embarrassed.
And I just am wholeheartedly a novice and thrilled about it.
(14:45):
I love that. I'm going to put that, like on
a bumper sticker on a I like that. And when
it comes to developing the products, gen, I think it
must be really fun. Actually, because you love to cook.
You have your pretend cooking show on Instagram, which I
loved watch. You can tell you get real joy out
of cooking and being in the kitchen and preparing things
for your kids. I think you didn't you make bagels
(15:07):
not too long ago. Who would like the first bagel?
I like to take on occasionally a big project like bagels.
My little sister made croissant. How do you say so recently?
And I said, I don't think I can do that.
I bet you could. I'd like to just say, I
wonder if I could. You know, John cans tomatoes and
I was just talking to him in the car this
(15:28):
morning and saying Okay, I'm ready to do this. Tell
me exactly what to do, and this weekend I'm going
to go home and can tomatoes. For sure. John is
John Forker, the CEO of their company, Once Upon a Farm.
You'll meet him a little bit later. And so as
part of that, I guess you get to try foods,
suggest foods, and are the networks banging on your door
(15:48):
to do a real cooking show and not just to
pretend cooking show? I can't imagine you haven't been approached.
Come on, I mean, you know in a garden are
common crash. It is an homage to Aina and to
Barefoot Contesta and the comfort that I get and how
much I've learned about cooking from her, and and from
Martha Stewart before her, and from this whole genre. But
(16:11):
I don't know enough to fill an hour or how.
I don't know. I think it would be great. And Aina,
I mean she is pretty amazing, isn't she amazing? Talk
about somebody who knows business? She is so smart that woman.
Has she given you any tips on this business? Yeah?
I think I had a similar conversation that that you
were talking about with her about how to hire people.
(16:33):
I loved that you brought that up Inna says high
or happy, because you can teach someone how to about
about cheese, but you can't teach them how to be happy.
And there there is something about that, you know. If
you want to have a teammate, be a teammate, you
kind of have to be in it with everyone. I
think people get their energy from people around them, and
you want positivity and people to feel like they can do.
(16:58):
And nothing's worse than having a like around you and
an energy sucker or vampire, like they said the worst.
There's so many women who are doing cool entrepreneurial things.
Do you ever talk to like Gwyneth Paltrow or Jessica
all the about business? They're not really so impressed by them.
I'm a little intimidated by them, to be honest. But
(17:18):
but I would talk to them if I were sitting
in the room with them, of course, and be so
fascinated by their journey and why they made the decisions
they've made, and where they see themselves going and how
they see it all kind of working out. But if
I'm really going to talk innovation, I am talking with
John Forker. We talk a lot about everyone in the
(17:40):
organic industry is trying to find the next new high
end product or the next new like ingredient that no
one's thought of before. And we're trying to innovate instead
of up to the tip of the pyramid, down and
out so that it's available for everyone. And I think
we're trying to push our colleagues to do the same.
Purpose driven companies are now kind of everywhere, And I
(18:00):
guess my only cautionary note, not that I'm an expert
on any of this, is that when companies are inauthentic
and they're kind of doing it for their image instead
of for their real heart, right, you know, any good
that you do is still good, even if it is
for the picture on Instagram. I really do believe if
(18:20):
you've done good, you've done good. It's helped someone great.
But if you want people to respond to it, it
sure helps if you mean what you say. It can
be easy to have a pretty cynical outlook on celebrity
driven brands, but after spending just a few minutes with Jennifer,
it was clear that she isn't just doing this for
(18:43):
the Graham. She and the rest of her Once upon
a Farm colleague seem to really care deeply about their work,
and it shows especially in their efforts to make sure
that their food is available to people who rely on
government assistance. We'll have more on that right after this.
(19:06):
Once Upon a Farm is rethinking nutrition for kids, and
rethinking it in a way that if eighteen thousand stores
carries fresh pet food, and yet the baby food that
you buy is older than the baby that you're feeding
it too, there is something wrong with the way we
have grown to accept what we're feeding our children. So
we are putting out their farm fresh full of nutrition,
(19:29):
full of bright, vibrant flavors and colors, and food for
babies in the refrigerated section. I wanted to hear more
about the company, so I asked John Forker, the CEO
of Once Upon a Farm, what attracted him to this venture.
You were the CEO of Annie's, which was one of
the front runners or the leaders in this space. Why
(19:50):
did you say, you know, this is so exciting, I'm
going to quit my old job and start something totally new.
My old job was a lot easier than this. Um
there's the personal challenge of like trying to do something
big again and seeing a big need that Jen just
alluded to that there's an opportunity to do just a
(20:10):
lot better for babies and to partner with a really
small team of really passionate people and see how much
change we could drive and not just for rich kids
in Beverly Hills or San Francisco or New York, but
for all kids. And that was just too big of
an opportunity to pass up. That is such a key
(20:31):
phrase when it comes to your company, all kids, and Jen,
that came from your work was saved the children. I
know you were exposed to really deplorable situations for a
lot of kids in this country, and you thought, this
isn't right, this isn't fair. Tell us did you have
an AHA moment about this? It's more of a combination
(20:53):
of small AHAs. There there's the aha of everywhere that
I've gone in the country for save the children, and
I've gone back again and again and again in the
eleven years I've worked for them, whether it's Connault Nation
at the very tip top of Washington State, or South Carolina, Mississippi,
West Virginia, Kentucky, or all over California or d C
(21:16):
or Vermont, or I've criss crossed the country visiting the
poorest areas in the rural parts of those states, and
I have just seen the similarities and the differences, and
the way that we fundraise over the last eleven years
has changed so that we're pushing and looking for businesses
to lead in a way that we didn't used to. Um.
We used to rely even eleven years ago, much more
(21:38):
on government, and we still do. We're a public private partnership,
but business has to lead. So then you eventually feel
like we'll shoot, then I better be a business. So,
in addition to our work was saved the children, Gen decided,
I'm tired of asking other people for money. I better
get in there myself and make a change that I
want to see. Talk about how you're making your affordable,
(22:00):
which obviously is the cornerstone. Jen, your mom grew up
on a rural farm in Oklahoma, and now the family
farm is actually providing some of the produce for the
food that you're making, which is a great full circle,
but it is very challenging in terms of accessibility to
let underserved families have access to this food and make
(22:22):
it so they can afford it. Can you give us
the cliff notes John about the process you have to
go through. The cliff notes is there's a federal program
that's menasured by the states called the Women, Infant Children
Health Program, and it allows underserved communities and families to
get access to fresh foods and vegetables and baby food
and other things. And so we decided very early on,
(22:43):
in fact day one, that we decided to do this together,
that we were going to make fresh baby food available
under the WIT program in every state we possibly could.
I talked to a few people about that idea who
have been the food industry with me for a long time,
and they said, you're insane, Like that's not going to happen.
We had to completely re genero supply chain. We had
to think about where things are made, where the vegetables
(23:04):
and fruits are coming from. Because of proximity to the stores.
In any package food, a lot of the cost is
not actually the food itself, it's everything else. It's the transportation,
it's the packaging. So we redesigned with the same great
ingredients to develop a line of products that we could
get to a price point and with the right nutritionals
that are required by the federal program to allow us
(23:26):
to be WICK eligible, and so we are WIK eligible
on our core line of these two pack bowls, and
we're now getting those approved in every state that we
can for access to those populations. But it's been quite
a process. And you're approved in six states six states now, right,
And how long do you think it will take John
before you guys can be sold in every state in
the country. I would like it to be tomorrow, but
(23:52):
I think there's fifteen or sixteen states now that allow
organic baby food in their WICK program. We're in about
six now, I think will be in twelve or so
by this time next year. What are some of your
favorite products that you all have done. I'd love to
hear from both of you because right now I'm super
hungry and I just want to hear about some that
you really like. Green kale and apple was one of
(24:13):
our core baby food flavors. It sounds crazy, but like
I snack on it. It's green kale apples. It's amazing,
Like really, that's one of my favorites. They all in pouches.
Most of our line right now is in pouches, but
we're coming into other product formats too, and as Jen mentioned,
we're starting to age out we want to be a
brand that's babies first, foods all the web two about
age twelve, So really like a kid nutrition brand, solving
(24:34):
the lunchbox problem. Helping parents do that. It's very hard
to do, and to build a brand like that across
multiple categories is really hard work. And fresh baby food
didn't exist, and it should have existed years and years ago.
So I think of Baby Boom. Do you remember that movie?
When I hear about the company, I always think about
like I'm just driving around in my station wagon filled
(24:55):
with you know, Mama Bear blueberry. Yeah. I mentioned this
in the Our Bigger Conversation, but I want to mention
it here too. Is there was a woman who wrote
to you on Instagram As an adult, I enjoyed a
few of these in my post chemo misery when eating
was tough. It was a great way to get fruits
and veggies allowed and my immuno suppressed diet. Thank you.
(25:17):
So it's wonderful when you see something you're doing helping
people that you never imagined it would be helping. Right well,
moms whose children have diabetes or who have celiac or
different allergies, I hear from them a lot It's just
nice to feel like you're helping. And is this sort
of your sole focus when you think about your life
five ten years from now. I hate the words vision board,
(25:40):
but everyone seems to use that. Now, what do you
see before you? Happy kids? I just want happy kids
my own selfishly, that's the first thing I see. If
my kids are happy, then I'm okay. But other than that,
my gosh, I see lunch boxes being filled with fresh,
nutritious choices that delight children and that you know, and
(26:03):
that helped create more jobs for sustainable, regenerative agriculture and
great farmers, and I see that going hand in hand.
I probably work as much for safe as I do
on anything else, and so I can't not see in
the future and see, you know, some policy changes that
focus more on poor kids in our country and more
(26:24):
on birth to five. Well, I not only adore you,
I really appreciate everything you do and respect what you're
doing out in the world, and so happy to be
able to have this conversation. Jen Thank you so much.
My time with Jennifer and John was coming to a close,
but as you heard, I was really hungry, and they
(26:44):
happen to bring a few of their products with them. Okay,
what do I do? I smush it around before we go.
I want to try. I'm trying to be a very
very quite contrary, although I'm very excited about Jen and
the Giant Squash, which is coming soon to a store
near you. You guys, how many stores are you available in?
Ten thou ten thousand stores? And then the Giant squash.
(27:06):
It's just squash that has been grown on my tiny
family farm in Oklahoma, so you got to get it online,
and you guys cheers. I'm having Mama Bear Birds apple,
sweet potato, blueberry water, coconut milk, all organic and only
ninety calories fifty. Thank you, Katie, Thank you, Jim, Thank
(27:28):
you John. This sound is someone sucking out of a
pouch on. I know, this is what? What is that
weird thing that m A s A s mr Oh
I write that is so weird. I hate it. This
is me drinking a smoothie. Let's listen to the smoothie.
M I don't get it. That's the weirdest thing ever.
(27:58):
Totally using it. I really really like Jennifer Garner now
I just call her Jen or j G. I thought
she was warm and funny. And authentic, but I also
found her to be really thoughtful and smart. She clearly
cares deeply about her work. Was saved the children, and
(28:20):
I was so impressed by how much time she spent
traveling around the country to see and understand rural poverty
up close. I'd love to do a documentary with her
on the subject one of these days, because it's still
so in the shadows. Clearly, Jen's parents did a great
job raising her. So congratulations Mr and Mrs Garner. If
(28:40):
you're listening and Jen, thank you and everyone. Jennifer Garner
is as nice as she seems. Thanks so much for listening, everyone,
and until we meet again, make sure to follow me
on Instagram. I'm at Katie Curic and sign up for
(29:00):
my daily newsletter. It's called wake Up Call, and you
can do that by going to Katie currek dot com.
Next Question with Katie Curic is a production of I
Heart Radio and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are
Katie Kuric, Lauren Bright Pacheco, Julie Douglas, and Tyler Klang.
Our show producers are Bethan Macalooso and Courtney Litz. The
(29:20):
supervising producer is Dylan Fagan. Associate producers are Emily Pinto
and Derek Clemens. Editing is by Dylan Fagan, Derek Clements,
and Lowell Brollante. Our researcher is Barbara Keene. For more
information on today's episode, go to Katie kurrek dot com
and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurk.
(29:43):
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows,
Host
Katie Couric
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