Kris Jenner has vision. From an early age, she knew she wanted a family–she even predicted she’d have six kids! From her origins working in retail stores owned by her mother and grandmother, Kris has built something with true staying power along with her accomplished kids–and now their own kids, her grandchildren! One of the joys of matriarchy is being able to sit back a bit and survey what you’ve built. In this personal and heartfelt interview, Jenner dishes about her love of celebration (she’s already started Christmas shopping!), grandkid dates, and realizing that what you promise one grandkid… you promise to them all. More tips for grandparents–including a new one by the name of Katie Couric!--in this delightful conversation with Kris Jenner.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi everyone, I'm Kittie Kuric, and this is next question.
For those of you who follow me on social media,
you probably know that I'm a brand new grandmother. My
first grandchild came into the world just a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So exciting, right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
But also, yikes, where did the time go?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean, I'm so old.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When I think of grandparents, I think of Granny on
the Beverly Hillbillies. Daisy, you doll, you still got it
a regular shyen. But these days grandmothers, even if they
aren't that young chronologically, are much more active than they
used to be. I mean, did Granny on the Beverly
(00:56):
Hillbillies ever play pickleball?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But transitions like this, I find are best navigated with
some good advice from someone who's been there. My guest today,
Chris Jenner, has six kids and more than a dozen grandkids,
making her not only the matriarch but the grandmomager of
the entire Kardashian empire. Being a grandmother, she told me,
(01:21):
is her favorite thing ever. And as you'll hear, she
doesn't count sheep at night. She counts the grandkids she's
seen that day. Chris was a lot of fun to
talk to. We talked about a lot of things and
had a lot of fun doing it. So here's my
conversation with Chris Jenner. First and foremost, Chris Jenner, thank
(01:45):
you so much for doing this podcast, and I'm so
happy to see you and to talk to you about
a subject that is very near and dear to my heart.
I'm about to become a grandmother for the first time.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Oh my gosh, congratulations. Thank you. That is very very
exciting and something that I'm sure if you're like me,
you look forward to. I mean I look forward to
it my whole adult life and thought, what is that
going to feel like, especially after you have kids, and
you think this is going to be you know, generational
and exciting. And I'm so happy for you. I am
(02:20):
so thrilled.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, was there a sentilla of you, Chris that
when you first became a grandmother you thought only bleep,
I'm old enough to be a grandmother. You know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I had a child at a very early age. I
got pregnant when I was twenty two and had Courtney
when I was twenty three. So I think being a
younger mom for some of my kids and a younger
grandmother for all of my grandkids, like you will be
not really, but thank you. Yeah, no, I think so.
(02:51):
I think that you know, in our when I was
growing up, didn't you think of grandma's as being kind
of older with gray hair, you know, like a different model.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Of course, I thought about Granny on the Beverly Hill building.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, yes, me too. She was great, by the way,
and I thought, oh, yeah, well we ever get that old.
But I think what happened to me when I first
heard that I was going to be a grandmother. I
remember we were filming our show, and Courtney and I
were in our store called Smooch at the time, which
is no longer there, but we were working and I
(03:23):
remember thinking, oh my god, I like what is happening?
And then I thought, what are they going to call me?
You know, you start thinking of what you want your
grandmother name to be, Like are they going to call
me grandma like I called my grandmother? Or do I
want to pick something? So when Mason was born, my firstborn,
who's now fourteen, he started calling me grandma, and then
(03:45):
some other kids, I don't know, maybe it was Kim
got pregnant, and then I thought of all these kids
running around calling me Grandma, grandma and grandma, and I thought, no, no, no,
we need to change the name. So Courtney and I
picked my name. I got to choose my name, which
is now Life, which I love.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
But it makes me think of Thurst and Hell the
Third's wife on Gilligan's Island.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I forgot about her.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I relate everything to TV shows from the seventies.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Apparently I forgot. I know, I listen. I watched every
episode probably twelve times because we had like three networks
in those days. But exactly, I think my mom's one
of my mom's really good friends was named Lovey, and
I just remember when I was a little girl, thinking
that is the coolest, most beautiful name I'd ever heard.
And so that just popped into my mind when Courtney
(04:34):
said pick a name, That's what I picked.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So now, all thirteen of your grandchildren, by the way, yes,
Chris Jenner has thirteen grandchildren. Do they all call you
Lovey now, Chris.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yes, they do. And their friends call me Levey, and
their friend's friends call me Levy. Everybody calls me Levey.
So it's very cute. That is cute.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I recently read an article and I think it was
all about baby boomers, for feet using to be called
grandma or granny or grandmother, because they just didn't want
to deal with those names because they associate it with
someone older. And of course baby boomers we never want
to even think that we've aged. So all these fun
(05:16):
names are popping up. And I've been trying to figure
out my name, And at first I was going to
be Chigi because my sister's Kiki. My late husband has
a sister named KK, So I was like, well, I
can't use either of those. Then I thought Gigi. Then
I realized everybody's Gigi, and then not to name drop.
(05:36):
But I was talking to Tory Birch at a party
and I said she has some step grandkids and I said,
what do they call you? And she said they call
me go Go And I said, that's really cute.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
That is cute.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I had a sweater made that said Gigi by
my friends at Lingua Franca. You know they do those
scripts on Kashmir sweaters. Yeah, And I asked my friend Rachelle,
I said, can you replace the eyes with o's? So
now I'm thinking about go Go. But then some people
are like, that's so dumb. I have a friend who said,
I hate that name. So I think you just have
(06:11):
to pick one and embrace it and you know, make
it your own.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, I also think, I mean, I had to think
about because I have so many kids, I had to
think about. Okay, a lot of kids potentially will be
calling me this, so you might, you know, be hearing
it all the time. So it's got to be something
that you really really like. Do you have a nickname
besides Katie? Not really?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean, Katie is such a nickname. Yeah, some people
call me Couric my husband. Some people call me k C.
So I could be Casey. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I'm very confused or oftentimes, like the child himself or herself,
ends up kind of naming you. I have a friend
whose husband who's got a lot of grandchildren like you,
Barbara antraconis Hey Barbara, and her husband is called Beep
Beep because when he was pushing his grandchild around on
(07:08):
a little plastic truck, she kept saying, Hey, Beep beep,
Hey beep beep. So that name stuck. So we'll see
what happens. But I'm very excited about it Lovey. Maybe
I'll steal Lovey, Chris, you could.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Steal Lovey, might be my guest. It would be my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I wanted to talk to you also just about your
phenomenal success, your work, kind of your upbringing, which I've
learned a lot about since I knew I was going
to be doing this podcast. But I did read that
you wanted to be a mom from a very very
early age, which makes me think you had a really
happy childhood and a wonderful mom. And I always feel
(07:43):
like people who have great parents are so lucky because
it does set you on a path for the rest
of your life. So tell me a little bit about
your childhood. I know you worked at your grandmother's candle shop,
I did, and you kind of developed your work ethic there.
But why was your maternal instinct so incredibly strong at
a very early age.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I just loved small kids, first of all. I don't
know why. I've always been drawn to children and kids,
and did have a very very happy upbringing and childhood.
And I felt like because my parents my mom was divorced,
(08:25):
so I had my stepdad when I was about thirteen,
and I always wished that I had an even bigger family.
For some reason, you know, one sibling was just not enough.
So I always dreamed about a huge, big family sitting
around of family dinner on Sundays. And you know, I
had this fantasy in my head. Who knows what happens
to us when we're that age. But by the time
(08:47):
I was sixteen, I knew that I really wanted to
have six kids. That was my number. And I remember,
I know this sounds nuts, but I remember driving from
my grandmother's my mother's store. They both had stores in
La Joia, and I was working for both of them
by the time I was sixteen and going back and forth,
and I remember driving home and as I was crossing
(09:09):
this one little bridge in the part of Lajoia going
onto the freeway, I thought, Okay, I think I need
to have six kids because on Christmas Eve, I want
a big group drinking hot chocolate, sitting around the fireplace,
you know, talking about Santa. I don't know. I had
these fabulous fantasies and I thought, I'm really going to
have a big family and have all these family moments
(09:32):
and celebrate every single occasion I can possibly dream of.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I'm curious too about you, as a career woman. We're
about the same age, and I think we represent almost
a transition from women in more traditional roles as you
know what my mom did. My mom volunteered for Planned
Parenthood and worked in the gift department of Lord and Taylor,
but she really didn't have a career. And then my
(10:00):
older sisters and I and my brother obviously, but we
really wanted careers. And your first job, I guess was
as a flight attendant for American Airlines. And when you
were growing up and coming of age, you know, this
was also right in the midst of second wave feminism.
Was a career something that you wanted because initially you
(10:21):
were a very traditional person, right.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, Well, my first job was actually working in the
corner donut shop up the street from my house when
I was about That would be very dangerous for me, Yeah,
well it was. And my job early in the morning
before school, I would take the scraper on a long
(10:45):
stick and I would scrape the glades off of the
floor from the day before. Oh god, and they would
the night before how glamorous. And they would oh yeah,
I made it look good, trust me. And they would
make the donuts, you know, late late in the middle
of the night, and then I'd come in and be
part of the cleanup crew and then go to school
on the bus in Claremont, and I just remember all
(11:06):
of that. Then after that, I was still working for
my grandmother and my mom, and then I became an
airline stewardess for American Airlines, and then from there I
got married and I got pregnant on my honeymoon, so
you know, it was time to go raise a family.
So that's kind of I think the entrepreneurial part. I
had so many chapters in my life that led up
(11:29):
to being fifty two years old and creating our reality
show for me and my family, and I think that
that's what's remarkable, is it kind of like being a
mom raising all these children and having all these jobs
and never I never wanted to stop. It was just
the work ethic came from my mom and my grandmother
(11:51):
and you know, being able to work. But I just
always assumed because my my role models were that's what
they did, had careers, and they loved what they did.
And I never thought for a second, you know, I
always enjoyed what I was doing, so I always, you know,
had a great attitude about going to work, and I
couldn't wait to go be a stewardess. And now they
(12:14):
call it a flight attendant. It's very proper, but those
days it was a stewardess and I could not wait
to be a career girl and do something that was
professional like that and that that was a big, big
step for me, and from there it just kept bleeding
into other things. But I think my role as a
mom was a huge career building chapter of my life,
(12:36):
even though I didn't realize it at the time, because
it just prepared me for everything.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Else after the break how Chris Jenner got much of
her business savvy for being a mom. If you want
to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the
news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture,
(13:00):
wind up for our daily newsletter Wake Up Call by
going to Katiecuric dot com. Now for more of my
conversation with the one and only Chris Jenner, How did
your role as a mom? And then I want to
talk about some of your failures because I think people
see you, Chris, and they're like, she's brilliant, she's a genius.
(13:22):
And I think you're very open about the fact that
I've every idea you know, worked, and people always talk
about the huge successes but not the whiffs and the failures.
So let me start by asking what skills you really
gleaned from being a mom in terms of running a business.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, I think work ethic is something that you really
have to learn and have experience from. You can't really
you can teach it in a way, but I think
to have the hands on experience of just learning, you know,
things from scheduling and from organizational skills and from multitasking
and from you know, when I was a flight attendant,
(14:02):
it wasn't you just don't show up on an airplane
and you know, willy nilly start, you know, bouring cups
of coffee. You you know, you have to go to
a flight attendant school in Dallas for weeks and weeks
and learn how to do what it is that you know,
their menu of things that they want to teach you.
But it's also about you know, having responsibility, being somewhere
(14:22):
on time, learning how to save lives if there's an emergency.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's pretty serious business, really yeah, And it's keeping a
really crazy schedule.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
One of the things that I love to tell my
kids is when I was a flight attendant. We would
get up at whatever, you know, it was crazy hours
and flying around the world. But it was so long
ago that the minute the plan took off, every single person,
the little light on the plane above your seat would
go off and it was the smoking light. And if
(14:53):
the light went off, you could start smoking, and person
on the plane, including every flight attendant, would light up
and you just see the whole And now to think
about that now it makes my skin crawl. Right, everyone
would light up and you would just be sitting there
in a big you know, govin.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
And then Chris they had the smoking section, which was
such a joke. R you know, the seats to the
middle to the back of the plane and it's like seriously.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, So, I mean it was just when I think
back on some of the experiences I've had in my
life and just where I you know, kind of the
jobs and then the flight attendant, but then mom, I
think was my most important job. But it was also
something where I learned. Everything that I talk about today
is probably based on, from you know, consumer behavior to
(15:48):
how to give a birthday party, to taking care of
children first aid one oh, one education just so much.
It's just so many things about raising a family that
prepares you for yet another chapter or another lifetime. And
I think that when you learn how to navigate the
(16:09):
problems and the challenges and the joy of raising a family,
you learn how to navigate a lot of other things
that you're not even aware of until they happen.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, and I think that the you know, the responsibilities
of being a mother, really being the CEO of a
household are often undervalued in the business world because you
also learn how to make decisions things like time management.
You have to figure out how to be collaborative because
(16:39):
you're collaborating with a bunch of kids. So well, I
was like a drill sergeant. Basically, there was really no
negotiation with my timeline. So it's like you woke up
at this time, You've got dressed, you went downstairs, You've
got your homework ready, put it into your thing, had
your breakfast, got in the car.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, we all drove to school. There was a
schedule and it was very tightly followed at all times.
Chloe's very much like I am, or I was when
I was that age. Oh yeah, you better believe it,
you know, Chop Chop was was my middle name. So
I mean, know, I great importance that I really stressed
(17:19):
on sticking to a schedule, and I think I learned that,
you know, and then I took that into the next
chapter of my life. But I also had the great
advantage of my husband, Robert, who surrounded himself and was
in this you know world of executives and figureheads and
(17:39):
studio heads and you know, and I would sit in
and even if I was just listening or in the
next room almost through like osmosis, you know, be in
on all these business meetings for almost two decades, right,
So when you learn you sit in on meetings, you
happen to be on a business trip, you know, where
everyone's talking business. Sometimes you're you know, half in the conversation,
(18:02):
or you're talking to some you know, one of the
girls that happened to be at the table. But I'm
always listening with two ears, you know. So it was
just fascinating for me to be a mom during the day,
put my kids to bed, and then so we were
you know, everyone was socializing in the eighties. You know,
it's seventy eight and you know, Monday nights would be
(18:23):
you know Morton's. You know, everybody would go to Morton's restaurant,
and you know, it was just these wonderful opportunities that
would pop up, and I was lucky enough to be
a part of them and to be had a very
privileged life of being able to meet and get to
know people that were very successful. And I think you
(18:45):
absorbed that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, I should mention Chris that your husband, Robert Kardashian,
I know you all split up in nineteen ninety one,
but he was a very high powered I guess entertainment lawyer, right.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, an entertainment lawyer, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And of course I met him during the OJ trial,
and my husband, who was covering the OJ trial, met him,
and he was just a very very nice person. He
was so sort of very low key and understated, but
I think he became kind of a household name actually
during the OJ Simpson trial. So that was just sort
(19:21):
of interesting. And then before we talk about sort of
your time as a single mom, well this might actually
intersect with that, but you have said you came up
with all these ideas and a lot of them didn't work.
You mentioned the shop that you all have that is
no longer there. I'm curious if you can just go
back and tell us some of the ideas you had
before you were in your early fifties and things blew
(19:43):
up for you and your kids.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
There's lots of things that we did over the years.
I'm trying to think about some of them. I know
that when we launched the stores, I decided to kind
of follow in my mom's footsteps. And I thought, my
mom's been so successful with her children shop in La Joya.
And when I mean successful, I mean just emotionally and
(20:06):
financially all of it. You know, she was happy fulfilled
by that. Yeah, yeah, she was really It filled her
cup and she really loved what she was doing. And
I thought, I love retail so much, and I love
children's clothes. I have, you know at the time, all
these kids, and I thought maybe I'll do that. So
I told Courtney I was going to start a children's
(20:26):
store in Calabasas, and I said, do you want to
be my partner? And she immediately said yes. And then
later the girls opened a like a woman's clothing store
next door called Dash. But what happened to Courtney and
I was we were doing really well and when we
started the show in that was in two thousand and four.
Two thousand and seven came around and we started our
(20:48):
show and it got so overwhelming with tourists in our
store that nobody was buying anything. They were just coming
to check out what was happening. So we had to
close the store, or the store that we had. Courtney
and I had a back door so we would if
it got really crazy, we could go out the back
door and have a break or take off. And then
(21:10):
people realized that what we were doing, so you know,
it just became a little crazy. So yeah, so that
just didn't pan out. But and then this, you know,
the show took off. So the rest is kind of history.
But the stuff in between, I think we were throwing
spaghetti at the wall a lot when we first started
our show because we were given so many opportunities suddenly,
(21:32):
and we were really trying to connect with an audience
who at the time there was no Instagram, there was
no Snapchat, there was no TikTok, none of those platforms
were alive, and it was there was barely Twitter, and
so we started, you know, really focusing on how can
I don't know how long this show is going to last?
(21:55):
But how can we take advantage of this amazing opportunity
and trying to find you know, my my I felt
like my job as a mom and I put this
on myself. It's not like I read it in some
book or anything, but I just decided that what I
wanted for myself and my children was to be able
to help them identify what they wanted to do with
(22:15):
their lives. Aside from a TV show that who knew
what you know?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, right, it's pretty unreliable. You never know, but you
really wanted them to find their passion and transform it
into a business.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Right, that's right. So that's what I focused on. So
that involved a lot of you know, slapping a bunch
of spaghetti on the wall and trying different things. And
so I really loved those years in some ways because
we grew and we learned and we got smarter because
(22:48):
you know, you try new things and you talk to
lots and lots and lots of people, and it's been
a great journey.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I work with my husband John at a media company
we started about six years ago, and you know, working
with your family, or combining family and people you love
with business can sometimes be a little I don't know,
trying at times, and I'm curious how you're able to
(23:17):
stay so close as a family, but also when you
disagree on business things or you have different styles of
getting things done, how challenging has that been for all
of you?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, I think you know, the good news is at
the end of the day, we love what we do
and we do it together. So that's the beauty. I mean,
it truly is the best gift I've ever been given.
And I got back from doing interviews this morning and
I walked into my kitchen and Chloe was here because
she lives next door. And then we'll work together later
(23:50):
this afternoon. And you know, it's just always we all
live nearby, we all live near each other, and we
all are connected all day long. I know, Kendall is
getting on plane this morning to go do a photo
shoot in another city, and I text her and all
we're talking about is like last night's Bachelor, Like would
you think would like when you think about this, we're all,
(24:12):
you know, so when we're not the point is when
we're not together, we're still together. So we you know,
we're kind of obsessed with one another. But as far
as the business side of it. There's always going to
be disagreements. There's always going to be a difference of opinion,
or they're going to be very strong about something that
I disagree with, you know, like I'll say I need
(24:33):
you to do it like this, and they'll say, no,
this is I'm not doing that, but I'll do this,
and you know, so there's always a little bit of
a dance, and I thank God every day for when
it goes really smoothly. But you know, with this many
people and it's a lot of incoming, so there's a
lot of decision making and I've just learned to you know,
(24:57):
it takes a village. So I have a great team
and and you know, we all have our gift with
each other. So I think it's depending on what it is.
It's who's going to talk to Like who's going to
talk to Kim about this and then I'll do it
or you know somebody else.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Do you all ever have big fights, like family feuds
where you don't talk for a few days or you
have to cool down. I mean, it can all be
flowers and lollipops and rainbows all the time. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
The last really big argument I think anybody had was
probably Kim and Courtney a couple of years ago. But honestly,
if we don't agree, we've resolved it by the end
of the day. I don't think there's ever a time
when I have ever gone to bed. I feel like
they're all my spouses, you know, like we don't we
(25:48):
don't go to bed angry. So and we resolve things
pretty quickly and we all get on the phone. And
Kim is such a great negotiator, should be seriously professional.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
She is going to law school, so maybe she'll.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
She's gonna be very good at it because she could
be a mediator. She is the best mediator. So you know,
when things get really rough, we just all called Kim, Kim,
I'll fix it. But you know, as the mom, everything's
my fault. You know, everything in life is my fault.
So you know, sometimes that's how you feel, and you
just have to say, Okay, how I'm going to deal
(26:26):
with this being my fault today? Oh am, I going
to fix it. So but it's it's great. It's great
joy and that I can honestly say, I feel like
the luckiest girl in the world because I get to
work with them.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, you all have created an unbelievable empire. Really, is
there any part of you that's like, holy cow, how
did this happen? Because we were talking about really extraordinary
wealth Chris as you know, and if you didn't grow
up that way, that's something you sort of have to
(27:02):
adjust to and becomes a big responsibility, right.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It is a big responsibility. Did you have any struggles
with that? I mean, you know, listen, I think with
a lot of greatness comes a lot of responsibility, whether
it's greatness in opportunity or financial or you know, just
being really you know, we have a big voice. And
(27:27):
when you have a lot, we have probably as a
family over a billion followers. You know, that's Kylie has
more people following her than people in the United States.
That's insane. That's insane. It's really insane. And I think
about that and I think, Okay, this is a huge responsibility.
With such a big, you know, voice that you have,
that you can potentially do, you know, hopefully a lot
(27:50):
of good. And I think that the girls are very philanthropic.
They don't always talk about what they do, but I'm
proud of them for all those efforts, and I'm just
proud of the way they handle themselves and what they
put out there in the world. But what I love
most about them is they love to be They love
to be working, They love to be doing what they do.
They love to have their schedule full, and you know,
(28:12):
their meetings and their shoots and they're filming, and they're
always you know, looking at other projects and things to do.
And I mean I get their schedules every night and
then again every morning because things change, and we're always
you know, if I'm negotiating a deal or putting another
business together, you know all of that. I'm I'm working
at my office most days and filming my show, and
(28:33):
then the girls are, you know, working on all their stuff.
But it's we organize it and we schedule it, and
there's a team of us. There's a business strategist and
published you know, publicists, attorneys and all of that. So
it's a big operation. And I think when you focus
on all the positive things that can come out of it,
(28:53):
then that's where I'm most comfortable. You know, I feel
like really proud of what all of us are doing,
and how hard the girls are working, and how creative
they are, and the level of expertise that they bring
to each thing that they do, and then combined with
their work ethic, it's kind of the perfect storm. You
(29:14):
really are the CEO of Kardashian Inc. And I know
that keeps you incredibly busy.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
But I'm going to go back to social media in
a moment because it's something I'm really interested in. But
let's talk about your grandkids. So thirteen of them, just
tell me what is it like being a grandparent.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
What should I expect? Well, I think, you know, I
always wish I had more time, so I think expect to.
I mean, I crave seeing my grandkids. Thank goodness that
Chloe lives next door, because I know that I'm guaranteed
to see those two little dolls every day, hopefully. And
(29:52):
if I am inside all day for some reason or
running from here to my office, you know, and I'm
at my office all day. When I come home, they
know that i'm home because we share a driveway, and
I get to see them, and you know, yesterday I
was at Kylie's and I got to see Stormy and Air.
And so I go to bed every night thinking, Okay,
(30:14):
how many kids did I get to see today. That's
kind of like my little you know, treat I give myself.
It's just it's like counting sheep, I count grandkids. But
I think what you have to look forward to is
probably some of the best, most delicious years of your
life because you get to share, you know, this amazing
relationship and sometimes it's really funny. I have so many
(30:40):
but I'll go through They go through this period where
they aren't as lovey dovey like at about eighteen months
as I wish they were, and then all of a sudden,
when you know, six months later, they won't stop, you know,
calling your name or being right there. You yeah, you like,
(31:00):
it's the best thing in the world. So I think
I really crave the hugs and the conversation now that
some of them are, you know, old enough. Rocky Portney's
baby was just born a couple months ago. But Mason,
my oldest, is fourteen. But what I did was I
told Mason on his bar mitzvah that I would buy
(31:21):
him a car when he was sixteen if I felt
really confident and I could have proof that he's never
done any drugs or alcohol or anything like that, and
if he was sixteen and we could come and he was,
I promised Levy I promise and then yeah, what happens
is my kids kept, you know, keep having kids. So
(31:43):
now I have a feeling I'm going to be kind
of on the hook for thirteen cars. Yeah, I guess.
So nobody does any drugs or alcohol. So that's kind
of like you make little deals with them, and I
think it's really fun to have a date with some
of my grandkids, Like Penelope and I will go to dinner.
You know, she likes to go to They all love
to go to Target or you know, Costco or Walmart.
(32:07):
They love to go, you know, get some goodies. And
so we'll take them shopping or do something fun. They
love to go to dinner. And I said to one
of my kids the other day, I said, you know,
if I took every grand kid out to dinner once
a month, that would take up the month. Think about that,
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But it's so nice that you're able to spend quality
time with them as individuals. I hear a lot of
my contemporaries saying don't tell your kids how to parent, because,
especially with this current generation of parents, I've been told
they're much more rigid than we were as parents, and
that they are very, very on schedule very specific. Do
(32:51):
you ever have conflicts with any of your kids about
the way they're parenting theirs.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I always speak my mind, like by you know, when
you feel like making a comment or offering unsolicited advice.
I'm sure I annoy them constantly, my kids, not my grandkids,
but my kids, because I'm always giving advice or we
send things to each other. I send so many things
like on DM and I'll send them a real or
(33:20):
I'll send them, you know, some tip I've learned or
did you hear about this has too much sugar in it,
and you know you can't eat as poisoned. So I'm
sure my kids think I'm a whack adoodle, but they
are very respectful and probably pretend to appreciate my advice.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
That's nice, because I think it is a source of
conflict for a lot of grandparents and their kids.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I've been told, oh no, I'm annoying to every degree.
Like I just speak my mind and I'll call them
up and go now, I really don't think you know.
And then you know, I think my kids are just
as verbal. Like Courtney'll come over to my kitchen and
she'll just take all of my stuff out of my
kitchen that isn't healthy to cook in or to store
(34:05):
food in, and it's just in the trush can. And
I'm like, did you throw all my tupperwear away? And
She'll go, yeah, I did. She's just trying to save
you from forever chemicals. Oh I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So anyway, that's how we are with each other. You know,
we're very very close family. I guess you could call it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
When we come back raising grandchildren and a world that,
to be honest, has gotten pretty scary now more with
the Kardashian in chief Chris Jenner, I wanted to ask
you about you know, I worry about this next generation
(34:49):
of children. The world is such a scary place. There's conflict,
there's polarization, there's global warming, and you know it does
be ill pretty doom and glooms sometimes. And I'm curious
about two things. One is screen time. Is that something
that you all as a family think about, because you
(35:12):
know it has a lot of negative effects on kids.
They're spending all their time looking at phones or iPads
and playing games and restaurants, and you know, I think
it's it's making them.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Have you know, it's not developed social skills.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Not be able to have conversations, not be outside as
much as they used to like it.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
It feels like life was so much easier, Chris.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
When you and I because we're I think an age,
we're one year apart when we were growing up. And
even my daughter Ellie, who's having the baby, says, mom,
I wish I grew up in the seventies when there
was no social media, because it really has transformed the
childhood experience for so many kids. So is it something
that you think about with your own grandchildren, especially because
(36:00):
you all have built this huge empire really because of
social media. So do you have a slightly you know,
schizophrenic feeling about it?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
You know, Listen, social media is such a double edged sword.
For sure. It's a great business tool. It's a great
way to connect with people that you love. It's a
great way to look at a fashion show, you know
in Paris last week, when all the shows were going
on and you could just pick up your phone and
go on Instagram and look at the shows.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
But by the way, and as a journalist, Chris, I
try to use it to give people accurate information to
help them understand this increasingly complex world around us.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Right you can learn so much, but at the same time,
it's so dangerous. And what I get really worried about
are my grandchildren, and they're because they're so young and
they're so impressionable, and just the amount of bullying that
goes on on social media is so tragic for this
younger generation and even us as adults. Yes, you know
(37:04):
all the eight on the internet from people that you know,
people have never met before, or complete strangers saying the
craziest things about everybody you know that you could possibly imagine.
So it's just a shame that, you know, we as
humans feel like it's okay too to be that crazy
(37:27):
on the Internet. I can't imagine going on someone's account
or page or going on where they can see something
and criticizing or making a horrible statement about somebody.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Oh it's awful, and people don't realize, like you're actually
a huge there's a human on the other end of
those comments and even if you don't look at them.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Or and even the suicide rate.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yes, oh yes, in fact, I know that the suicide
rate for young girls has increased Chris one hundred and
sixty seven percent since twenty ten, and experts really point
at social media as the causation for that increase. You know,
it's not a correlation necessarily, it's actually behind depression and anxiety,
(38:16):
especially for young girls. So how do you help navigate
that with your children and your grandchildren? Are they not
allowed to use iPhones until they get to a certain age?
Is their screen time monitored? How do you teach them
to be resilient when people do say such mean, ugly things?
I mean, how how are you raising a child in
(38:38):
the era of modern media and technology? Right?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, first of all, they have restricted screen time. They
don't have phones until there's certain age. What age do
you mind if I ask you what age? It's different
for every one of my children. They have babysitters that
will have a phone that obviously if they're out with
the kids and have an emergency things like that. But
(39:04):
the kids don't have phones. Mason has a phone, North
has a phone. I don't know if she's even allowed
to do certain you know, they're restricted, right, So for example,
I know my granddaughter True has an iPad with some
of her favorite cartoons on it. You know, they're very restricted,
and they're edited so that they're you know, they're only
(39:25):
watching what their moms and dads want them to watch.
And there's no real social media on there obviously yet.
And I don't know at what age they'll be introduced
to that, you know, other than Mason and North and
p but the other kids are too young yet. But
you know, I know that they like. My grandson, Saint
(39:46):
loves soccer, so he loves to watch. If he's out
and about, his mom will turn on a soccer game,
and you know, appropriate things. You know that the moms
or the parents let them watch. When I'm with them,
we don't even have that. We don't even go on
social media or or we're not on a phone if
we're all out and about. But I think that we
just have to be really careful about, you know, the
(40:09):
appetite that they create over some of this stuff. And
I think a lot of it is habit, right, So
I think we just have to be careful, and you
have to decide within your own family what's appropriate and
what's not for you know, your situation. But for us
it's you know, it's just it can be very negative.
So you really have to be watchful and create boundaries
(40:32):
for your you know, what's appropriate for your own I
know that. I hear my grandkids a lot. If they're
negotiating with their mom about something, you know, one of
them might say, oh, please, can I have some extra
screen time? So they have very limited, controlled amounts of
screen time. They're allowed to go on and play their
games or whatever they're you know, watching, but it's it's monitored,
(40:54):
so we're pretty careful about it. I think I think
with the girls, they try to be good role models
and really, you know, be good moms, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Really proud of I think they're very lucky to have you,
as you're clearly I think the glue that's holding I
mean not that they're not impressive individually, but you're the
glue that is holding everyone and everything together.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It seems just.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
In closing, how many grandchildren do you think you're going
to have, Chris by the time all is said and done.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Oh wow, wow wow wow. Well Kendall will hate me
for saying this, but I want Kendall to have one
because she's the only one of my kids that doesn't
have a child, so that would be really exciting. But
I don't I'm trying to think. I think if I
were to guess, I don't think I think Kim and
(41:51):
Courtney might be done. They each have four. That's a lot.
That is a lot, gosh, right, and Kylie, Kylie and
Chloe have two, and Rob has one and Kendall has none.
So I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.
(42:12):
These days.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Your house must be very fun at Christmas time, and
I'm really looking forward per Oh my.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Gosh, it's the best. I can't do. You know. I
just started Christmas shopping, really I did. I finished Easter baskets.
It's March, Chris, I know, and I'm so excited. I
can't help myself. It's my favorite time of the year.
So I'm just pretending like you know, it's time.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It must be very re energizing and must make you
feel like a new person to see life through the
eyes of a child, And that's what I'm excited about.
And I'm excited about the quality time I get to
spend with a little person. I don't have to necessarily,
although I want to be helpful. I'm going to be
(42:57):
in New York and Ellie's in LA But you know,
just to take a child again and to explore things
and learn things and discover things, I think it makes
you feel like you're discovering the world all over again.
So I'm really looking forward to that. And we don't
know whether it's a little boy or a little girl,
which is also very exciting. And I know you've got
(43:20):
to go, and I want to be so respectful of
your time, But did you know what your kids were
having or what your children were going to be?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I did not know what my children were going to
be at all until I had Kendall. And when I
had Robert, they told me. Actually, Paul Crane was my
obg Wyane at the time, and I was in the
delivery room and he said, listen, I know you have
three girls, and I know you really want a boy,
but this is probably a girl. My feeling is after
(43:48):
that last ultrasound, it's a girl. And so instead of
you know, having a breakdown because I really wanted a boy,
and all the Armenian you know, people wanted a boy
from day one. From Courtney they thought Courtney was a boy,
then Kimberly and the Clay. They kept having all these girls,
and we started picking out names, and it was Saint
Patrick's day, so I said, let's name her Kelly. Kelly
(44:13):
Kardashian and that'll be the little nod to the Irish
side of me. And so out came Rob. So we
were so excited. And then by the time I got
around to having Kendall, they had amniocentesis and I was older,
I was forty and I was forty one when I
had Kylie, and I knew with Kylie. But my grandkids,
(44:34):
I think we knew all of them what they were
going to be boys or girls.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I think most people find out now, but it is
one of life's last big surprises. So I'm sort of
excited that we don't know, and I, for the life
of me, cannot figure it out. Everyone's saying what do
you think? And I'm like, I have no idea, And
I say to Ellie, what do you think? She said,
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
So it'll be really exciting when the baby's born. That's
so exciting. When is when does she do? Pretty soon?
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But I told her, enjoy these final days because you're
going to be very busy and probably have a lot
of sleepless nights pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
So that's right, that's good advice. Don't rush you, grandma advice. Well,
let me know what you decide on your name I'm
excited to hear what they're going to call you. Yeah,
I'm excited too. And if you hate love, I'm good
with that. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Well, Chris, thank you and thanks for all the great advice,
and thanks for sharing a little bit about your life
and your work and your kids. It's fun to have
this conversation. I really appreciate you doing the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Thank you, Katie. Thank you for having me. I really
appreciate it. It was fun talking to you. Thanks for listening. Everyone.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
If you have a question for me, a subject you
want us to cover, or you want to share your
thoughts about how you n a gate this crazy world
reach out, you can leave a short message at six
oh nine five point two five five five, or you
can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love
to hear from you. Next Question is a production of
(46:14):
iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,
Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martx,
and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,
(46:34):
or to sign up for my newsletter Wake Up Call,
go to the description in the podcast app, or visit
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wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi everyone, I'm Kittie Kuric, and this is next question.
For those of you who follow me on social media,
you probably know that I'm a brand new grandmother. My
first grandchild came into the world just a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
So exciting, right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
But also, yikes, where did the time go?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I mean, I'm so old.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
When I think of grandparents, I think of Granny on
the Beverly Hillbillies. Daisy, you doll, you still got it
a regular shyen. But these days grandmothers, even if they
aren't that young chronologically, are much more active than they
used to be. I mean, did Granny on the Beverly
(00:56):
Hillbillies ever play pickleball?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
But transitions like this, I find are best navigated with
some good advice from someone who's been there. My guest today,
Chris Jenner, has six kids and more than a dozen grandkids,
making her not only the matriarch but the grandmomager of
the entire Kardashian empire. Being a grandmother, she told me,
(01:21):
is her favorite thing ever. And as you'll hear, she
doesn't count sheep at night. She counts the grandkids she's
seen that day. Chris was a lot of fun to
talk to. We talked about a lot of things and
had a lot of fun doing it. So here's my
conversation with Chris Jenner. First and foremost, Chris Jenner, thank
(01:45):
you so much for doing this podcast, and I'm so
happy to see you and to talk to you about
a subject that is very near and dear to my heart.
I'm about to become a grandmother for the first time.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Oh my gosh, congratulations. Thank you. That is very very
exciting and something that I'm sure if you're like me,
you look forward to. I mean I look forward to
it my whole adult life and thought, what is that
going to feel like, especially after you have kids, and
you think this is going to be you know, generational
and exciting. And I'm so happy for you. I am
(02:20):
so thrilled.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, was there a sentilla of you, Chris that
when you first became a grandmother you thought only bleep,
I'm old enough to be a grandmother. You know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I had a child at a very early age. I
got pregnant when I was twenty two and had Courtney
when I was twenty three. So I think being a
younger mom for some of my kids and a younger
grandmother for all of my grandkids, like you will be
not really, but thank you. Yeah, no, I think so.
(02:51):
I think that you know, in our when I was
growing up, didn't you think of grandma's as being kind
of older with gray hair, you know, like a different model.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Of course, I thought about Granny on the Beverly Hill building.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, yes, me too. She was great, by the way,
and I thought, oh, yeah, well we ever get that old.
But I think what happened to me when I first
heard that I was going to be a grandmother. I
remember we were filming our show, and Courtney and I
were in our store called Smooch at the time, which
is no longer there, but we were working and I
(03:23):
remember thinking, oh my god, I like what is happening?
And then I thought, what are they going to call me?
You know, you start thinking of what you want your
grandmother name to be, Like are they going to call
me grandma like I called my grandmother? Or do I
want to pick something? So when Mason was born, my firstborn,
who's now fourteen, he started calling me grandma, and then
(03:45):
some other kids, I don't know, maybe it was Kim
got pregnant, and then I thought of all these kids
running around calling me Grandma, grandma and grandma, and I thought, no, no, no,
we need to change the name. So Courtney and I
picked my name. I got to choose my name, which
is now Life, which I love.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
But it makes me think of Thurst and Hell the
Third's wife on Gilligan's Island.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I forgot about her.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I relate everything to TV shows from the seventies.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Apparently I forgot. I know, I listen. I watched every
episode probably twelve times because we had like three networks
in those days. But exactly, I think my mom's one
of my mom's really good friends was named Lovey, and
I just remember when I was a little girl, thinking
that is the coolest, most beautiful name I'd ever heard.
And so that just popped into my mind when Courtney
(04:34):
said pick a name, That's what I picked.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So now, all thirteen of your grandchildren, by the way, yes,
Chris Jenner has thirteen grandchildren. Do they all call you
Lovey now, Chris.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yes, they do. And their friends call me Levey, and
their friend's friends call me Levy. Everybody calls me Levey.
So it's very cute. That is cute.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I recently read an article and I think it was
all about baby boomers, for feet using to be called
grandma or granny or grandmother, because they just didn't want
to deal with those names because they associate it with
someone older. And of course baby boomers we never want
to even think that we've aged. So all these fun
(05:16):
names are popping up. And I've been trying to figure
out my name, And at first I was going to
be Chigi because my sister's Kiki. My late husband has
a sister named KK, So I was like, well, I
can't use either of those. Then I thought Gigi. Then
I realized everybody's Gigi, and then not to name drop.
(05:36):
But I was talking to Tory Birch at a party
and I said she has some step grandkids and I said,
what do they call you? And she said they call
me go Go And I said, that's really cute.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
That is cute.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
So I had a sweater made that said Gigi by
my friends at Lingua Franca. You know they do those
scripts on Kashmir sweaters. Yeah, And I asked my friend Rachelle,
I said, can you replace the eyes with o's? So
now I'm thinking about go Go. But then some people
are like, that's so dumb. I have a friend who said,
I hate that name. So I think you just have
(06:11):
to pick one and embrace it and you know, make
it your own.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, I also think, I mean, I had to think
about because I have so many kids, I had to
think about. Okay, a lot of kids potentially will be
calling me this, so you might, you know, be hearing
it all the time. So it's got to be something
that you really really like. Do you have a nickname
besides Katie? Not really?
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean, Katie is such a nickname. Yeah, some people
call me Couric my husband. Some people call me k C.
So I could be Casey. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I'm very confused or oftentimes, like the child himself or herself,
ends up kind of naming you. I have a friend
whose husband who's got a lot of grandchildren like you,
Barbara antraconis Hey Barbara, and her husband is called Beep
Beep because when he was pushing his grandchild around on
(07:08):
a little plastic truck, she kept saying, Hey, Beep beep,
Hey beep beep. So that name stuck. So we'll see
what happens. But I'm very excited about it Lovey. Maybe
I'll steal Lovey, Chris, you could.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Steal Lovey, might be my guest. It would be my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
I wanted to talk to you also just about your
phenomenal success, your work, kind of your upbringing, which I've
learned a lot about since I knew I was going
to be doing this podcast. But I did read that
you wanted to be a mom from a very very
early age, which makes me think you had a really
happy childhood and a wonderful mom. And I always feel
(07:43):
like people who have great parents are so lucky because
it does set you on a path for the rest
of your life. So tell me a little bit about
your childhood. I know you worked at your grandmother's candle shop,
I did, and you kind of developed your work ethic there.
But why was your maternal instinct so incredibly strong at
a very early age.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I just loved small kids, first of all. I don't
know why. I've always been drawn to children and kids,
and did have a very very happy upbringing and childhood.
And I felt like because my parents my mom was divorced,
(08:25):
so I had my stepdad when I was about thirteen,
and I always wished that I had an even bigger family.
For some reason, you know, one sibling was just not enough.
So I always dreamed about a huge, big family sitting
around of family dinner on Sundays. And you know, I
had this fantasy in my head. Who knows what happens
to us when we're that age. But by the time
(08:47):
I was sixteen, I knew that I really wanted to
have six kids. That was my number. And I remember,
I know this sounds nuts, but I remember driving from
my grandmother's my mother's store. They both had stores in
La Joia, and I was working for both of them
by the time I was sixteen and going back and forth,
and I remember driving home and as I was crossing
(09:09):
this one little bridge in the part of Lajoia going
onto the freeway, I thought, Okay, I think I need
to have six kids because on Christmas Eve, I want
a big group drinking hot chocolate, sitting around the fireplace,
you know, talking about Santa. I don't know. I had
these fabulous fantasies and I thought, I'm really going to
have a big family and have all these family moments
(09:32):
and celebrate every single occasion I can possibly dream of.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I'm curious too about you, as a career woman. We're
about the same age, and I think we represent almost
a transition from women in more traditional roles as you
know what my mom did. My mom volunteered for Planned
Parenthood and worked in the gift department of Lord and Taylor,
but she really didn't have a career. And then my
(10:00):
older sisters and I and my brother obviously, but we
really wanted careers. And your first job, I guess was
as a flight attendant for American Airlines. And when you
were growing up and coming of age, you know, this
was also right in the midst of second wave feminism.
Was a career something that you wanted because initially you
(10:21):
were a very traditional person, right.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, Well, my first job was actually working in the
corner donut shop up the street from my house when
I was about That would be very dangerous for me, Yeah,
well it was. And my job early in the morning
before school, I would take the scraper on a long
(10:45):
stick and I would scrape the glades off of the
floor from the day before. Oh god, and they would
the night before how glamorous. And they would oh yeah,
I made it look good, trust me. And they would
make the donuts, you know, late late in the middle
of the night, and then I'd come in and be
part of the cleanup crew and then go to school
on the bus in Claremont, and I just remember all
(11:06):
of that. Then after that, I was still working for
my grandmother and my mom, and then I became an
airline stewardess for American Airlines, and then from there I
got married and I got pregnant on my honeymoon, so
you know, it was time to go raise a family.
So that's kind of I think the entrepreneurial part. I
had so many chapters in my life that led up
(11:29):
to being fifty two years old and creating our reality
show for me and my family, and I think that
that's what's remarkable, is it kind of like being a
mom raising all these children and having all these jobs
and never I never wanted to stop. It was just
the work ethic came from my mom and my grandmother
(11:51):
and you know, being able to work. But I just
always assumed because my my role models were that's what
they did, had careers, and they loved what they did.
And I never thought for a second, you know, I
always enjoyed what I was doing, so I always, you know,
had a great attitude about going to work, and I
couldn't wait to go be a stewardess. And now they
(12:14):
call it a flight attendant. It's very proper, but those
days it was a stewardess and I could not wait
to be a career girl and do something that was
professional like that and that that was a big, big
step for me, and from there it just kept bleeding
into other things. But I think my role as a
mom was a huge career building chapter of my life,
(12:36):
even though I didn't realize it at the time, because
it just prepared me for everything.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Else after the break how Chris Jenner got much of
her business savvy for being a mom. If you want
to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the
news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture,
(13:00):
wind up for our daily newsletter Wake Up Call by
going to Katiecuric dot com. Now for more of my
conversation with the one and only Chris Jenner, How did
your role as a mom? And then I want to
talk about some of your failures because I think people
see you, Chris, and they're like, she's brilliant, she's a genius.
(13:22):
And I think you're very open about the fact that
I've every idea you know, worked, and people always talk
about the huge successes but not the whiffs and the failures.
So let me start by asking what skills you really
gleaned from being a mom in terms of running a business.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Well, I think work ethic is something that you really
have to learn and have experience from. You can't really
you can teach it in a way, but I think
to have the hands on experience of just learning, you know,
things from scheduling and from organizational skills and from multitasking
and from you know, when I was a flight attendant,
(14:02):
it wasn't you just don't show up on an airplane
and you know, willy nilly start, you know, bouring cups
of coffee. You you know, you have to go to
a flight attendant school in Dallas for weeks and weeks
and learn how to do what it is that you know,
their menu of things that they want to teach you.
But it's also about you know, having responsibility, being somewhere
(14:22):
on time, learning how to save lives if there's an emergency.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
It's pretty serious business, really yeah, And it's keeping a
really crazy schedule.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
One of the things that I love to tell my
kids is when I was a flight attendant. We would
get up at whatever, you know, it was crazy hours
and flying around the world. But it was so long
ago that the minute the plan took off, every single person,
the little light on the plane above your seat would
go off and it was the smoking light. And if
(14:53):
the light went off, you could start smoking, and person
on the plane, including every flight attendant, would light up
and you just see the whole And now to think
about that now it makes my skin crawl. Right, everyone
would light up and you would just be sitting there
in a big you know, govin.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
And then Chris they had the smoking section, which was
such a joke. R you know, the seats to the
middle to the back of the plane and it's like seriously.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, So, I mean it was just when I think
back on some of the experiences I've had in my
life and just where I you know, kind of the
jobs and then the flight attendant, but then mom, I
think was my most important job. But it was also
something where I learned. Everything that I talk about today
is probably based on, from you know, consumer behavior to
(15:48):
how to give a birthday party, to taking care of
children first aid one oh, one education just so much.
It's just so many things about raising a family that
prepares you for yet another chapter or another lifetime. And
I think that when you learn how to navigate the
(16:09):
problems and the challenges and the joy of raising a family,
you learn how to navigate a lot of other things
that you're not even aware of until they happen.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah, and I think that the you know, the responsibilities
of being a mother, really being the CEO of a
household are often undervalued in the business world because you
also learn how to make decisions things like time management.
You have to figure out how to be collaborative because
(16:39):
you're collaborating with a bunch of kids. So well, I
was like a drill sergeant. Basically, there was really no
negotiation with my timeline. So it's like you woke up
at this time, You've got dressed, you went downstairs, You've
got your homework ready, put it into your thing, had
your breakfast, got in the car.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, we all drove to school. There was a
schedule and it was very tightly followed at all times.
Chloe's very much like I am, or I was when
I was that age. Oh yeah, you better believe it,
you know, Chop Chop was was my middle name. So
I mean, know, I great importance that I really stressed
(17:19):
on sticking to a schedule, and I think I learned that,
you know, and then I took that into the next
chapter of my life. But I also had the great
advantage of my husband, Robert, who surrounded himself and was
in this you know world of executives and figureheads and
(17:39):
studio heads and you know, and I would sit in
and even if I was just listening or in the
next room almost through like osmosis, you know, be in
on all these business meetings for almost two decades, right,
So when you learn you sit in on meetings, you
happen to be on a business trip, you know, where
everyone's talking business. Sometimes you're you know, half in the conversation,
(18:02):
or you're talking to some you know, one of the
girls that happened to be at the table. But I'm
always listening with two ears, you know. So it was
just fascinating for me to be a mom during the day,
put my kids to bed, and then so we were
you know, everyone was socializing in the eighties. You know,
it's seventy eight and you know, Monday nights would be
(18:23):
you know Morton's. You know, everybody would go to Morton's restaurant,
and you know, it was just these wonderful opportunities that
would pop up, and I was lucky enough to be
a part of them and to be had a very
privileged life of being able to meet and get to
know people that were very successful. And I think you
(18:45):
absorbed that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, I should mention Chris that your husband, Robert Kardashian,
I know you all split up in nineteen ninety one,
but he was a very high powered I guess entertainment lawyer, right.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, an entertainment lawyer, that's correct.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And of course I met him during the OJ trial,
and my husband, who was covering the OJ trial, met him,
and he was just a very very nice person. He
was so sort of very low key and understated, but
I think he became kind of a household name actually
during the OJ Simpson trial. So that was just sort
(19:21):
of interesting. And then before we talk about sort of
your time as a single mom, well this might actually
intersect with that, but you have said you came up
with all these ideas and a lot of them didn't work.
You mentioned the shop that you all have that is
no longer there. I'm curious if you can just go
back and tell us some of the ideas you had
before you were in your early fifties and things blew
(19:43):
up for you and your kids.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
There's lots of things that we did over the years.
I'm trying to think about some of them. I know
that when we launched the stores, I decided to kind
of follow in my mom's footsteps. And I thought, my
mom's been so successful with her children shop in La Joya.
And when I mean successful, I mean just emotionally and
(20:06):
financially all of it. You know, she was happy fulfilled
by that. Yeah, yeah, she was really It filled her
cup and she really loved what she was doing. And
I thought, I love retail so much, and I love
children's clothes. I have, you know at the time, all
these kids, and I thought maybe I'll do that. So
I told Courtney I was going to start a children's
(20:26):
store in Calabasas, and I said, do you want to
be my partner? And she immediately said yes. And then
later the girls opened a like a woman's clothing store
next door called Dash. But what happened to Courtney and
I was we were doing really well and when we
started the show in that was in two thousand and four.
Two thousand and seven came around and we started our
(20:48):
show and it got so overwhelming with tourists in our
store that nobody was buying anything. They were just coming
to check out what was happening. So we had to
close the store, or the store that we had. Courtney
and I had a back door so we would if
it got really crazy, we could go out the back
door and have a break or take off. And then
(21:10):
people realized that what we were doing, so you know,
it just became a little crazy. So yeah, so that
just didn't pan out. But and then this, you know,
the show took off. So the rest is kind of history.
But the stuff in between, I think we were throwing
spaghetti at the wall a lot when we first started
our show because we were given so many opportunities suddenly,
(21:32):
and we were really trying to connect with an audience
who at the time there was no Instagram, there was
no Snapchat, there was no TikTok, none of those platforms
were alive, and it was there was barely Twitter, and
so we started, you know, really focusing on how can
I don't know how long this show is going to last?
(21:55):
But how can we take advantage of this amazing opportunity
and trying to find you know, my my I felt
like my job as a mom and I put this
on myself. It's not like I read it in some
book or anything, but I just decided that what I
wanted for myself and my children was to be able
to help them identify what they wanted to do with
(22:15):
their lives. Aside from a TV show that who knew
what you know?
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, right, it's pretty unreliable. You never know, but you
really wanted them to find their passion and transform it
into a business.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Right, that's right. So that's what I focused on. So
that involved a lot of you know, slapping a bunch
of spaghetti on the wall and trying different things. And
so I really loved those years in some ways because
we grew and we learned and we got smarter because
(22:48):
you know, you try new things and you talk to
lots and lots and lots of people, and it's been
a great journey.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I work with my husband John at a media company
we started about six years ago, and you know, working
with your family, or combining family and people you love
with business can sometimes be a little I don't know,
trying at times, and I'm curious how you're able to
(23:17):
stay so close as a family, but also when you
disagree on business things or you have different styles of
getting things done, how challenging has that been for all
of you?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, I think you know, the good news is at
the end of the day, we love what we do
and we do it together. So that's the beauty. I mean,
it truly is the best gift I've ever been given.
And I got back from doing interviews this morning and
I walked into my kitchen and Chloe was here because
she lives next door. And then we'll work together later
(23:50):
this afternoon. And you know, it's just always we all
live nearby, we all live near each other, and we
all are connected all day long. I know, Kendall is
getting on plane this morning to go do a photo
shoot in another city, and I text her and all
we're talking about is like last night's Bachelor, Like would
you think would like when you think about this, we're all,
(24:12):
you know, so when we're not the point is when
we're not together, we're still together. So we you know,
we're kind of obsessed with one another. But as far
as the business side of it. There's always going to
be disagreements. There's always going to be a difference of opinion,
or they're going to be very strong about something that
I disagree with, you know, like I'll say I need
(24:33):
you to do it like this, and they'll say, no,
this is I'm not doing that, but I'll do this,
and you know, so there's always a little bit of
a dance, and I thank God every day for when
it goes really smoothly. But you know, with this many
people and it's a lot of incoming, so there's a
lot of decision making and I've just learned to you know,
(24:57):
it takes a village. So I have a great team
and and you know, we all have our gift with
each other. So I think it's depending on what it is.
It's who's going to talk to Like who's going to
talk to Kim about this and then I'll do it
or you know somebody else.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Do you all ever have big fights, like family feuds
where you don't talk for a few days or you
have to cool down. I mean, it can all be
flowers and lollipops and rainbows all the time. Right.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
The last really big argument I think anybody had was
probably Kim and Courtney a couple of years ago. But honestly,
if we don't agree, we've resolved it by the end
of the day. I don't think there's ever a time
when I have ever gone to bed. I feel like
they're all my spouses, you know, like we don't we
(25:48):
don't go to bed angry. So and we resolve things
pretty quickly and we all get on the phone. And
Kim is such a great negotiator, should be seriously professional.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
She is going to law school, so maybe she'll.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
She's gonna be very good at it because she could
be a mediator. She is the best mediator. So you know,
when things get really rough, we just all called Kim, Kim,
I'll fix it. But you know, as the mom, everything's
my fault. You know, everything in life is my fault.
So you know, sometimes that's how you feel, and you
just have to say, Okay, how I'm going to deal
(26:26):
with this being my fault today? Oh am, I going
to fix it. So but it's it's great. It's great
joy and that I can honestly say, I feel like
the luckiest girl in the world because I get to
work with them.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, you all have created an unbelievable empire. Really, is
there any part of you that's like, holy cow, how
did this happen? Because we were talking about really extraordinary
wealth Chris as you know, and if you didn't grow
up that way, that's something you sort of have to
(27:02):
adjust to and becomes a big responsibility, right.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It is a big responsibility. Did you have any struggles
with that? I mean, you know, listen, I think with
a lot of greatness comes a lot of responsibility, whether
it's greatness in opportunity or financial or you know, just
being really you know, we have a big voice. And
(27:27):
when you have a lot, we have probably as a
family over a billion followers. You know, that's Kylie has
more people following her than people in the United States.
That's insane. That's insane. It's really insane. And I think
about that and I think, Okay, this is a huge responsibility.
With such a big, you know, voice that you have,
that you can potentially do, you know, hopefully a lot
(27:50):
of good. And I think that the girls are very philanthropic.
They don't always talk about what they do, but I'm
proud of them for all those efforts, and I'm just
proud of the way they handle themselves and what they
put out there in the world. But what I love
most about them is they love to be They love
to be working, They love to be doing what they do.
They love to have their schedule full, and you know,
(28:12):
their meetings and their shoots and they're filming, and they're
always you know, looking at other projects and things to do.
And I mean I get their schedules every night and
then again every morning because things change, and we're always
you know, if I'm negotiating a deal or putting another
business together, you know all of that. I'm I'm working
at my office most days and filming my show, and
(28:33):
then the girls are, you know, working on all their stuff.
But it's we organize it and we schedule it, and
there's a team of us. There's a business strategist and
published you know, publicists, attorneys and all of that. So
it's a big operation. And I think when you focus
on all the positive things that can come out of it,
(28:53):
then that's where I'm most comfortable. You know, I feel
like really proud of what all of us are doing,
and how hard the girls are working, and how creative
they are, and the level of expertise that they bring
to each thing that they do, and then combined with
their work ethic, it's kind of the perfect storm. You
(29:14):
really are the CEO of Kardashian Inc. And I know
that keeps you incredibly busy.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
But I'm going to go back to social media in
a moment because it's something I'm really interested in. But
let's talk about your grandkids. So thirteen of them, just
tell me what is it like being a grandparent.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
What should I expect? Well, I think, you know, I
always wish I had more time, so I think expect to.
I mean, I crave seeing my grandkids. Thank goodness that
Chloe lives next door, because I know that I'm guaranteed
to see those two little dolls every day, hopefully. And
(29:52):
if I am inside all day for some reason or
running from here to my office, you know, and I'm
at my office all day. When I come home, they
know that i'm home because we share a driveway, and
I get to see them, and you know, yesterday I
was at Kylie's and I got to see Stormy and Air.
And so I go to bed every night thinking, Okay,
(30:14):
how many kids did I get to see today. That's
kind of like my little you know, treat I give myself.
It's just it's like counting sheep, I count grandkids. But
I think what you have to look forward to is
probably some of the best, most delicious years of your
life because you get to share, you know, this amazing
relationship and sometimes it's really funny. I have so many
(30:40):
but I'll go through They go through this period where
they aren't as lovey dovey like at about eighteen months
as I wish they were, and then all of a sudden,
when you know, six months later, they won't stop, you know,
calling your name or being right there. You yeah, you like,
(31:00):
it's the best thing in the world. So I think
I really crave the hugs and the conversation now that
some of them are, you know, old enough. Rocky Portney's
baby was just born a couple months ago. But Mason,
my oldest, is fourteen. But what I did was I
told Mason on his bar mitzvah that I would buy
(31:21):
him a car when he was sixteen if I felt
really confident and I could have proof that he's never
done any drugs or alcohol or anything like that, and
if he was sixteen and we could come and he was,
I promised Levy I promise and then yeah, what happens
is my kids kept, you know, keep having kids. So
(31:43):
now I have a feeling I'm going to be kind
of on the hook for thirteen cars. Yeah, I guess.
So nobody does any drugs or alcohol. So that's kind
of like you make little deals with them, and I
think it's really fun to have a date with some
of my grandkids, Like Penelope and I will go to dinner.
You know, she likes to go to They all love
to go to Target or you know, Costco or Walmart.
(32:07):
They love to go, you know, get some goodies. And
so we'll take them shopping or do something fun. They
love to go to dinner. And I said to one
of my kids the other day, I said, you know,
if I took every grand kid out to dinner once
a month, that would take up the month. Think about that,
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
But it's so nice that you're able to spend quality
time with them as individuals. I hear a lot of
my contemporaries saying don't tell your kids how to parent, because,
especially with this current generation of parents, I've been told
they're much more rigid than we were as parents, and
that they are very, very on schedule very specific. Do
(32:51):
you ever have conflicts with any of your kids about
the way they're parenting theirs.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I always speak my mind, like by you know, when
you feel like making a comment or offering unsolicited advice.
I'm sure I annoy them constantly, my kids, not my grandkids,
but my kids, because I'm always giving advice or we
send things to each other. I send so many things
like on DM and I'll send them a real or
(33:20):
I'll send them, you know, some tip I've learned or
did you hear about this has too much sugar in it,
and you know you can't eat as poisoned. So I'm
sure my kids think I'm a whack adoodle, but they
are very respectful and probably pretend to appreciate my advice.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
That's nice, because I think it is a source of
conflict for a lot of grandparents and their kids.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I've been told, oh no, I'm annoying to every degree.
Like I just speak my mind and I'll call them
up and go now, I really don't think you know.
And then you know, I think my kids are just
as verbal. Like Courtney'll come over to my kitchen and
she'll just take all of my stuff out of my
kitchen that isn't healthy to cook in or to store
(34:05):
food in, and it's just in the trush can. And
I'm like, did you throw all my tupperwear away? And
She'll go, yeah, I did. She's just trying to save
you from forever chemicals. Oh I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So anyway, that's how we are with each other. You know,
we're very very close family. I guess you could call it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
When we come back raising grandchildren and a world that,
to be honest, has gotten pretty scary now more with
the Kardashian in chief Chris Jenner, I wanted to ask
you about you know, I worry about this next generation
(34:49):
of children. The world is such a scary place. There's conflict,
there's polarization, there's global warming, and you know it does
be ill pretty doom and glooms sometimes. And I'm curious
about two things. One is screen time. Is that something
that you all as a family think about, because you
(35:12):
know it has a lot of negative effects on kids.
They're spending all their time looking at phones or iPads
and playing games and restaurants, and you know, I think
it's it's making them.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Have you know, it's not developed social skills.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Not be able to have conversations, not be outside as
much as they used to like it.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
It feels like life was so much easier, Chris.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
When you and I because we're I think an age,
we're one year apart when we were growing up. And
even my daughter Ellie, who's having the baby, says, mom,
I wish I grew up in the seventies when there
was no social media, because it really has transformed the
childhood experience for so many kids. So is it something
that you think about with your own grandchildren, especially because
(36:00):
you all have built this huge empire really because of
social media. So do you have a slightly you know,
schizophrenic feeling about it?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
You know, Listen, social media is such a double edged sword.
For sure. It's a great business tool. It's a great
way to connect with people that you love. It's a
great way to look at a fashion show, you know
in Paris last week, when all the shows were going
on and you could just pick up your phone and
go on Instagram and look at the shows.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
But by the way, and as a journalist, Chris, I
try to use it to give people accurate information to
help them understand this increasingly complex world around us.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Right you can learn so much, but at the same time,
it's so dangerous. And what I get really worried about
are my grandchildren, and they're because they're so young and
they're so impressionable, and just the amount of bullying that
goes on on social media is so tragic for this
younger generation and even us as adults. Yes, you know
(37:04):
all the eight on the internet from people that you know,
people have never met before, or complete strangers saying the
craziest things about everybody you know that you could possibly imagine.
So it's just a shame that, you know, we as
humans feel like it's okay too to be that crazy
(37:27):
on the Internet. I can't imagine going on someone's account
or page or going on where they can see something
and criticizing or making a horrible statement about somebody.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Oh it's awful, and people don't realize, like you're actually
a huge there's a human on the other end of
those comments and even if you don't look at them.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Or and even the suicide rate.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yes, oh yes, in fact, I know that the suicide
rate for young girls has increased Chris one hundred and
sixty seven percent since twenty ten, and experts really point
at social media as the causation for that increase. You know,
it's not a correlation necessarily, it's actually behind depression and anxiety,
(38:16):
especially for young girls. So how do you help navigate
that with your children and your grandchildren? Are they not
allowed to use iPhones until they get to a certain age?
Is their screen time monitored? How do you teach them
to be resilient when people do say such mean, ugly things?
I mean, how how are you raising a child in
(38:38):
the era of modern media and technology? Right?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, first of all, they have restricted screen time. They
don't have phones until there's certain age. What age do
you mind if I ask you what age? It's different
for every one of my children. They have babysitters that
will have a phone that obviously if they're out with
the kids and have an emergency things like that. But
(39:04):
the kids don't have phones. Mason has a phone, North
has a phone. I don't know if she's even allowed
to do certain you know, they're restricted, right, So for example,
I know my granddaughter True has an iPad with some
of her favorite cartoons on it. You know, they're very restricted,
and they're edited so that they're you know, they're only
(39:25):
watching what their moms and dads want them to watch.
And there's no real social media on there obviously yet.
And I don't know at what age they'll be introduced
to that, you know, other than Mason and North and
p but the other kids are too young yet. But
you know, I know that they like. My grandson, Saint
(39:46):
loves soccer, so he loves to watch. If he's out
and about, his mom will turn on a soccer game,
and you know, appropriate things. You know that the moms
or the parents let them watch. When I'm with them,
we don't even have that. We don't even go on
social media or or we're not on a phone if
we're all out and about. But I think that we
just have to be really careful about, you know, the
(40:09):
appetite that they create over some of this stuff. And
I think a lot of it is habit, right, So
I think we just have to be careful, and you
have to decide within your own family what's appropriate and
what's not for you know, your situation. But for us
it's you know, it's just it can be very negative.
So you really have to be watchful and create boundaries
(40:32):
for your you know, what's appropriate for your own I
know that. I hear my grandkids a lot. If they're
negotiating with their mom about something, you know, one of
them might say, oh, please, can I have some extra
screen time? So they have very limited, controlled amounts of
screen time. They're allowed to go on and play their
games or whatever they're you know, watching, but it's it's monitored,
(40:54):
so we're pretty careful about it. I think I think
with the girls, they try to be good role models
and really, you know, be good moms, and I'm.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Really proud of I think they're very lucky to have you,
as you're clearly I think the glue that's holding I
mean not that they're not impressive individually, but you're the
glue that is holding everyone and everything together.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It seems just.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
In closing, how many grandchildren do you think you're going
to have, Chris by the time all is said and done.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Oh wow, wow wow wow. Well Kendall will hate me
for saying this, but I want Kendall to have one
because she's the only one of my kids that doesn't
have a child, so that would be really exciting. But
I don't I'm trying to think. I think if I
were to guess, I don't think I think Kim and
(41:51):
Courtney might be done. They each have four. That's a lot.
That is a lot, gosh, right, and Kylie, Kylie and
Chloe have two, and Rob has one and Kendall has none.
So I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.
(42:12):
These days.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Your house must be very fun at Christmas time, and
I'm really looking forward per Oh my.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Gosh, it's the best. I can't do. You know. I
just started Christmas shopping, really I did. I finished Easter baskets.
It's March, Chris, I know, and I'm so excited. I
can't help myself. It's my favorite time of the year.
So I'm just pretending like you know, it's time.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It must be very re energizing and must make you
feel like a new person to see life through the
eyes of a child, And that's what I'm excited about.
And I'm excited about the quality time I get to
spend with a little person. I don't have to necessarily,
although I want to be helpful. I'm going to be
(42:57):
in New York and Ellie's in LA But you know,
just to take a child again and to explore things
and learn things and discover things, I think it makes
you feel like you're discovering the world all over again.
So I'm really looking forward to that. And we don't
know whether it's a little boy or a little girl,
which is also very exciting. And I know you've got
(43:20):
to go, and I want to be so respectful of
your time, But did you know what your kids were
having or what your children were going to be?
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I did not know what my children were going to
be at all until I had Kendall. And when I
had Robert, they told me. Actually, Paul Crane was my
obg Wyane at the time, and I was in the
delivery room and he said, listen, I know you have
three girls, and I know you really want a boy,
but this is probably a girl. My feeling is after
(43:48):
that last ultrasound, it's a girl. And so instead of
you know, having a breakdown because I really wanted a boy,
and all the Armenian you know, people wanted a boy
from day one. From Courtney they thought Courtney was a boy,
then Kimberly and the Clay. They kept having all these girls,
and we started picking out names, and it was Saint
Patrick's day, so I said, let's name her Kelly. Kelly
(44:13):
Kardashian and that'll be the little nod to the Irish
side of me. And so out came Rob. So we
were so excited. And then by the time I got
around to having Kendall, they had amniocentesis and I was older,
I was forty and I was forty one when I
had Kylie, and I knew with Kylie. But my grandkids,
(44:34):
I think we knew all of them what they were
going to be boys or girls.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I think most people find out now, but it is
one of life's last big surprises. So I'm sort of
excited that we don't know, and I, for the life
of me, cannot figure it out. Everyone's saying what do
you think? And I'm like, I have no idea, And
I say to Ellie, what do you think? She said,
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
So it'll be really exciting when the baby's born. That's
so exciting. When is when does she do? Pretty soon?
Speaker 1 (45:04):
But I told her, enjoy these final days because you're
going to be very busy and probably have a lot
of sleepless nights pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
So that's right, that's good advice. Don't rush you, grandma advice. Well,
let me know what you decide on your name I'm
excited to hear what they're going to call you. Yeah,
I'm excited too. And if you hate love, I'm good
with that. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Well, Chris, thank you and thanks for all the great advice,
and thanks for sharing a little bit about your life
and your work and your kids. It's fun to have
this conversation. I really appreciate you doing the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Thank you, Katie. Thank you for having me. I really
appreciate it. It was fun talking to you. Thanks for listening. Everyone.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
If you have a question for me, a subject you
want us to cover, or you want to share your
thoughts about how you n a gate this crazy world
reach out, you can leave a short message at six
oh nine five point two five five five, or you
can send me a DM on Instagram. I would love
to hear from you. Next Question is a production of
(46:14):
iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,
Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martx,
and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,
(46:34):
or to sign up for my newsletter Wake Up Call,
go to the description in the podcast app, or visit
us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me
on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more
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