March 18, 2021 • 54 mins
On this week’s episode of Next Question with Katie Couric, Katie chats to everyone’s favorite pandemic sauce man, Stanley Tucci. They talk about Stanley’s new travel/food series on CNN called “Searching for Italy,” as well as his new movie, “Supernova,” co-starring Colin Firth. They also talk about Stanley’s upcoming new book (“Taste: My Life Through Food”), the origin story of his foodie obsession, his enviable physique, and how those mixology videos on Instagram started.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to next question today.
I have such a treat for you, a man you
are certainly familiar with. He can make you laugh, he
can make you swoon, Julia, you are the butter to
my bread and the breath to my life. I love you,
(00:20):
Darling Grew. And he can also make a mean NECRONI
you can do it on the rocks. It's kind of
nice to have it up. It's Stanley Tucci, Everyone's favorite
pandemic sauceman. Enjoy. Are we doing the thing right now?
(00:42):
Or are we? Yeah? Yeah, we're doing it right now.
This isn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so happy to
see you, and I know that you too. I really
appreciate that you've, Stanley, been able to cram me into
your very very busy but because what can I say,
there's been a Tucci sons. Yeah, Am I right? Yes?
(01:08):
I think so? Yes, which yeah is wonderful and embarrassing. Yes, well,
I think it's just plain wonderful and I'm not embarrassed
at all. But I want to ask you about all
the different things you've been doing, Stanley, because you have
been so busy, you have your CNN series about Italy,
you have an upcoming book, you have a movie you
(01:30):
just did with my my, my sauceman, Colin Firth. I mean,
you're you're also my sauceman's family. But I have had
I have had a thing for Colin Firth, uh for
for decades now. Well it's it's hard not to. We're
going to talk about Colin and your wonderful movie with him,
and also about how you're delighting all your Instagram followers
(01:53):
with your cocktails, and we'll talk about that and you
and Felicity and how that all got started. But I
thought we should start by talking about your extraordinary series
on CNN, which I have to be honest, makes me
very very hungry. And since I've sworn off carbs, damn you,
Stanley Tucci. Is it like a brioche? Yeah, and it's
(02:14):
even healthy as compared to this, This is b spride.
It's a sort of doughnuts with a cream. I can't
imagine a better assignment for you, Stanley, because your Italian
on both sides, you're a foodie, uh from way back,
(02:35):
and you'd love to travel. So how much fun was
this just exploring these regions and and what did you
learn from the experience, Well, I learned a great deal
because we wanted to incorporate always um, not just that
the idea of it. Like, first of all, I wanted
to sort of dispel the myth that Italy is the
(02:57):
food of Italy is bustin pizza in panamajana, which is
not an actual Italian. Yes, I saw, I saw some
of the innerds that you were consuming, and I have
to say, I think I would say check please, I'm
not an adventurous eater Stanley. Oh no, but Katie, then
we'll go out to dinner and you will be fine.
(03:19):
I promise, I promise you needn't be afraid. But the
the I wanted to dispel that myth that you know,
pasta is with every meal and the tomatoes and everything
and so on and so forth. Yes, that's that can
that's true in certain parts of Italy, but not all
parts of Italy. Pasta gives way to polenta, which gives
(03:42):
way to rice, and everything is cyclical and everything is seasonal.
And the Italian still promote this and believe it and
live by it. And I think that's one of the
things it makes them so, that makes that their cuisine
(04:05):
so attractive. But but the but the idea that you
can have um cavalonero, which is a a black kil
that you have that in the North, but you don't
necessarily have that in the South, that you have egg
plant down in the south, but you don't have that.
(04:25):
You never see an egg plant, You'll never see a tomato,
you very seldom have pasta. But the other aspect was
that I wanted to show Italy not in a rope
and a completely romantic light, but to show it truthfully
through its food. And as you delve into that food,
specifically in each region, what you're going to end up
(04:47):
delving into is the society. And every society has issues,
and there is a huge amount of poverty in Italy
to this day, not just in the South but in
the North as well. And there's a lot of prejudice,
there's a lot of um uh, sort of let's say,
(05:12):
governmental confusion as to what a safety net should be
and what a safety net shouldn't be. Um And you
want to in each episode sort of shine a little
bit of a light on that. I think you do
you know, I was I was going to say, Stanley,
I was taken with how you showed sort of these
(05:34):
forces that were budding up against each other in an
episode when you talked about kind of gentrification or trying
to have new restaurants in this certain area and how
they were being bombed, and that to me was a
microcosm of some of the social issues that are happening everywhere,
(05:55):
this reaction to multiculturalism, to disruption, etcetera. Yeah, it's it's
really interesting and it's very sad because to me as
as a as a as an Italian American um. You know, yes,
when Italians came over, they came over because they were
they were suffering terribly in Italy and the between the
(06:17):
wars or prior to World War One. But to think
that Italy would reject people in need when a lot
of countries, American particular, accepted so many Italians when they
were in need, is heartbreaking to me. And it's not
(06:38):
that when the Italians came to America that they weren't vilified,
that they weren't ostracized, that they weren't demonized, but ultimately
what they ended up doing was making our society so
much better. And in Italy there are those who really
(06:59):
see the benefit fits of of immigration and there are those,
particularly in the North who don't uh. And one episode,
the episode of Milan, I interview and spend time with
the guy who is the sort of gamekeeper of of
(07:21):
Lake Como and he looks after the health of the lake.
He's a fisherman and he's an ardent environmentalist and yet
at the same time, and these things don't often go together.
He's he's anti immigration and he's part of the of
the League, which is the right wing um you know,
(07:48):
a political group headed by Salvini Um. So there's a
real dichotomy there and we had a good conversation about it.
But you know, he's a lovely I have a great
family and everything. But you just think if you, if you,
if you could only see that the more diversity there is,
(08:11):
the healthier country is. How did COVID affect the production
schedule and what was it like kind of taking this
on in the middle of a global pandemic. Well, it
was We did the first four episodes prior to the pandemic.
The second you know, the second leg of it was
done just two episodes. It just makes it more complicated,
(08:37):
it makes it harder. It's not it's not as much
fun Um, you want to be you want to follow
all the protocols and be really careful and and every
day you're learning something new at that point about COVID
and um, well still, but it was it was hard.
(08:58):
It was hard. I mean, I have a friend of
my on who's directing a series here now excuse me,
for Netflix, I think for Netflix something and he and he, uh,
one of those, one of those. He told me that
they've added seventeen million dollars to their budget simply for
testing and COVID protocols. I'm doing something here and I'm tested. Uh.
(09:24):
Once I start the job on Thursday, I think I'm
tested five days a week. So if you think about
hundreds of people, how much that costs. Um, it's going
to actually change the face of the film industry significantly.
Because the movie that I made with Colin will will
(09:45):
be called Supernova, that we made for three million, three
million pounds. You won't see a movie like that for
quite a while. Why is that because of the protocols? Okay,
I can't afford it. We'll talk about Supernova, but you
(10:06):
don't really you don't really talk much about the pandemic
in the series, which I thought was interesting. There would
be maybe a mask here, an elbow bump there, and
um was that a conscious decision because Italy was so
devastated and of course we watched in horror as so
(10:26):
many people were dying from from this disease. Did you
feel like it would date it or you know, how
did you decide to handle that? You know, I don't know.
I don't know, Katie, I don't know why we didn't
do that. I think I think we were I think
(10:47):
we were all a bit shocked by it, and I
think we just wanted to try to move forward because
it was at a point where we thought that things
were getting better. And you know, you don't want to
skirt the issue, but you also don't. It's not an investigator,
(11:08):
you know what I mean. It's not it's not that
you want to acknowledge it. But but I going forward,
I would I would like to talk more about that.
I would like to talk more about um, the loss
and also the success of the way the Italians UH
(11:33):
handled it from the get go. You may get a
chance to do that because I know you're doing another season.
Is it going to be searching for Italy or is
it going to be searching for the UK. What are
you going to be searching next, Stanley, Well, we're going
to search different regions. We're gonna do um, we're gonna
(11:55):
do six different regions, six different regions of the world. Italy.
Oh you're doing more Italy though, Yeah, No, not at all.
I'm excited about it. In fact, I think for a
lot of people, we just got so much vicarious pleasure,
(12:17):
not only watching you eat. And I have to ask
how you stay so thin, Stanley, because it's freaking annoying
to watch you eating all that stuff and then to
watch you and you're like, look like you don't even
have body fat anyway. But I think people just love
watching watching it, especially because we are all desperate to travel,
(12:38):
and I think for us to see you enjoying, you know,
these beautiful, fascinating places full of incredible people. I think
I loved, you know, meeting the people behind the food.
I think I think it's sort of spirited us away
from our our pandemic blues, if you will. So I
(12:59):
love it, Lee, and I'm happy you're doing more. Um.
I I'm excited just to to watch whatever you do, Stanley.
So thank you. No, no, because you're you're so fun
to watch and you're kind of easy to be with
on television. I can't explain it, but do you know
what I mean, you're just uh, you just feel like
a travel companion. So it's been really nice. But but um,
(13:23):
do you what's the response been or a lot of
people saying that to you, Like, it's just it's just
so much fun to to see the world, at least
a part of the world. It is, No, it is you,
don't you know? I was. You have to be careful
not to make it trite, as I said, not to
make it. Um. Isn't Italy the most romantic place in
the world. Yes, there's romance and its romance everywhere, but
(13:47):
you know there are darker aspects of every country. Uh,
and we touch on them. But I for me, oh,
for me, it's really just about telling the truth of
that of that country through its cuisine. And the cuisine
(14:10):
is arguably, um, the I think it's the most beloved
food in the world. Um. If anyone, if you said
to anyone, do like Italian food? Have you ever met
a person who says no, no, no? When we come back.
(14:32):
How did Stanley become such a foodie and how does
he stay so damn fit. That's right after this. How
(14:53):
do you stay so skinny? Stanley? I exercise obsessively, um,
and I'm blessed with a very fast metabolism. Really, I
mean really, I toasta like every day. I hate people
like work, I work out. How did you become a
(15:18):
foodie in the first place, because this is not your
first rodeo when it comes to kind of exploring cuisines,
can you take me back to your like food origin
story where you thought, I just I really love food
and who influenced you? Because I sort of know the answer,
but some of our listeners may not. My family, my mother,
(15:40):
my grandmother on both sides. Um, food, food was everything.
Sitting around the table at night was what you just did.
You were not late for dinner? Um. If you were,
you were sort of roundly chastised. Um. And my mother
(16:06):
and I write about this in the book. And my
mother was is an incredible cook. I mean, she's the
she's the kind of person that I mean, had she
chosen to be a professional chef, she would have been extraordinary,
beyond beyond. And I'm not saying this because oh every
(16:30):
Italian boy loves his mother's coaching. You know, it's not
it's not like I've been around you know, uh, not
in that sense, Katie. But but you know, but you know,
you're just like whoa. No matter where I travel, no
matter where I go, I always go back to those
(16:53):
flavors and that process and and when I find something new,
it's great. But ultimately that's the stuff that that really works,
I mean really works. Describe describe the Tucci family dinner
(17:14):
table growing up, because I just want to have people
get an image of it and what it was like,
where it was and kind of the commotion that would
take place there. I mean, we're just in Westchester and
in our house and excuse me, in Katona, and we
had this ranch house that that my parents had built,
(17:37):
which now would be I mean, you couldn't buy you
couldn't buy a car for the price of the house
and the whole thing, beautiful house on a cul de
sac in the in the you know, in suburbia. My
dad came out. He was at our teacher retired. It's
still alive. He's about to be. Wow, that's so nice
(18:01):
for you. That's great. It's great, probably better for him
because he still alive. But but I but yeah, it
was you know that my my mom worked in the
office at the high school where he taught uh in chatta,
(18:22):
and they went to work together a day, came home
every day, so my dad was home when we were
home after school, which was great. Uh. And then you know,
you do your homework or not do your homework. And then, um,
they were always cooking dinner. How many little how many
(18:46):
little two cheese were running around Stanley? There were there
were me and my two sisters, younger sisters. Um, And
it was wonderful, you know. I mean it wasn't the
time of you know, there was one black and white
television and my father used to watch the Huntley Brinkley Report,
right yeah, every night, and my mother cooked. My father
(19:13):
was a sush chef. There was no sort of like
the man does this, the woman does this. It wasn't
it wasn't like that, although she did do more of
the cookie uh because she was really good at it. Um.
And then everready pitched in and cleaned up, and you
sat around the table and you had wonderful conversations or
(19:34):
you had arguments or you had whatever. And it was
but every night was I mean, I remember my mother
just sort of making Paea. That was extraordinary. Were suddenly
you know, making you know creps, you know, with a
shamil and chicken and you know, just and you thought,
(19:59):
she's go onto work. She's worked all day. Then she
comes home and she does all this stuff. My dad
helps her, and then you know it was it was
an amazing, amazing, uh culinary experience every week every week.
(20:20):
So she really infused in you and your dad, I
think a love of food. And so that's kind of
from an early age, how you became kind of uh
enamored with cuisine? And did they speak Italian? How did
you become so proficient in Italian? No, they didn't really speak.
My father spoke some Italian, my mother spoke Italian, but
(20:43):
more dialect. Um. I learned in Florence when I was twelve.
We lived there for a year when I was twelve,
and then um uh of course you know your you
speak fluently because you don't have much else up there. Yeah,
(21:06):
so you know you've become the sort of you know,
lingual sponge. But then I when I was doing Big Night,
I studied Italian again for about a year, and now
before the series, I studied again. So every time I
(21:27):
go you know, it comes back suddenly, it starts to
come back. But I have to make a conservative effort
to to learn it properly because it disappeared. Well it
sounds like you know what you're talking about. All I
know is like Karazi and Grego and shall No, that's
(21:49):
good enough. I'd like to I'd like to learn Italian. Uh,
maybe I'll do that. I think it would be good
for my brain to actually a new language. To do
it is I do with a guy online. Um, he's Italian.
He was teaching here in England. We had like two things,
(22:10):
excuse me, two sessions in person, and then it was
like I was like, don't drive all the way here,
and he was in you know, North London or so
I was like, we'll just do it on that. You know,
this is pre pandemic. Uh. And now he's moved to
Spain where his wife is and um, we just do
(22:32):
it you know on zoom like this, and it's great
and it's really really great. It's really great and we
just like he does not allow me to speak in English,
which is really painful for both of us. Yeah. Um,
I want to talk about your the new book that's
that's coming out but first I want to talk to
(22:53):
you about super Nova. And this this this this small
but very moving movie that you did with my bff
Colin for for the uninitiated, and it is the story
of two men who have been a couple for twenty years. Uh,
and it's it's it's a very quiet story that unfolds
(23:16):
and and obviously your character is in early stages of dementia. Yeah,
teach me what that now? Why? God want? All right,
(23:36):
I want to be able to find it? H try Okay, So, um,
first you have to find the the what do you
call it? It's a shape, the shape, the shape triangle
(23:58):
and you have to find the three bright lights there
that make the triangle. At this one contraw a line horizontally,
that's right, And that's where the milky way is. What
drew you to the role. And why did you say
(24:19):
you must get a million script? Stanley? Let's be honest.
And and you know no, you come on, you do listen.
It's the Tucci Sons. It's the Tucci sons. Come on
maybe now, yeah, but but but but I'm curious, what
what what has to happen to really to really suck
you in and to say I'm going to devote a
(24:41):
lot of time making this movie. And what was it
in this case? It was the purity of the script
and the poetry of it and the absence of drama
and melodrama. Uh, it was gorgeous. It was the script
that I that you read and you go wish I
had written that. It's beautiful. But I was not going
(25:04):
to play that role. I was going to play Colin's role.
And then when I read it, I loved it so much.
And I watched Harry's movie, Harry McQueen, who wrote and
directed it. I watched his first film, which he had
made for ten thousand pounds. Wow. So if any filmmaker
(25:26):
thinks that they need a lot of money to make
a movie, well only when they have expensive actors like
you Stanley. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. But he made this
really beautiful movie for ten thousand pounds. And then I
watched him that I met Harry, and he was as
wonderful as his as his writing and his filmmaking. Uh.
(25:46):
And then I said, I think Collins should play the
other guy. Now, unbeknownst to Harry, I slipped it to Colin,
and um, Colin read it and he called me up.
He goes, oh my god, it's so beautiful. I said,
I know, I know. So then Colin signed on, and
very soon afterward, of course the money came through. With
(26:09):
me signed on, I'm not so sure what would have happened,
but once that happened, we started talking with Harry and
you know, talking through and everything. And then Colin called
me and he goes, I think we have to switch roles.
And I said, I'm just thinking the same thing, but
I don't know why. I was gonna say why. I
(26:31):
mean that I don't know, Katie, I don't know. It
just didn't feel right. So then and you can this
doesn't this doesn't happen. I mean, you can only do
that with your like best friend, and you know, if
you can't go hey, by the way, you know, when
(26:52):
you were signed up for a bro I think we
should switched role, you know, and the studio goes, what
you know, no, um, So we go to Harry, and
poor Harry, you know, blanched and and he's and he said,
all right, well, let's you know, on typical sort of
British fashion, let's read it. So we read five scenes
(27:16):
and then we switched roles because it was more right.
I don't know why. There was something rhythmically more right
about it being this play and the first scene is
is Colin and the two of you. I think I
would say in a semi spoon in bed your semi spooney. Yeah, yeah,
(27:38):
not a full spoon, but yeah, And uh, I don't
know what was it? Was it fun doing this this
movie with someone who you're very close to and you
really like, and you play a gay couple, so you know,
I think it must be an added extra if you
actually like your screen partner helps, if you trust and
(28:01):
love the person that you're working with. Um, it's always
difficult to play the same sex person if you're you know,
that's always more complicated. But in the end, you just
want to tell that story truthfully. UM, And you know
(28:24):
it's it's complex, but ultimately it's the story that makes
makes the difference. And I feel like this is illustrative.
I don't know, I mean, you would know much more
about this than I. But of this opening up of
of art and film too. You know, I hate to
(28:46):
to use sort of uh you know, modern vernacular that
is sometimes overused, but to make it more representative, more inclusive,
more UM, you know, such a variety of experience, says,
I don't know. Do you do you feel that is
really happening? Um, in in in a in a significant
(29:09):
way now, because just as a casual observer, I do,
and I think it's so exciting and wonderful and it
makes you realize how how myopically one sided or one
dimensional a lot of our culture was. And um, and
I'm just curious that if looking at the big picture,
(29:30):
you notice that too. Do you mean regarding every every
different I mean gay stories, black stories, um, you know,
all kinds of stories that I think here before we're
marginalized or are really not told at all. Yes, without
a question, I think what's happening now is a great thing.
(29:54):
There were questions raised, of course, because neither column I
are gay, um, which seems you'd be happy about. But
I think but I think that I think that, Um,
the wonderful thing is that we for for us selfishly,
(30:16):
we have been embraced by the gay community before, having
played gay characters before, and in this film, the same
thing has happened. I think that eventually what is going
to happen And we've talked about this in interviews. UM,
(30:37):
that for me it's a it's a societal issue why uh,
gay actors have not been able to just be whomever
they are. Um. The the more society is open, the
(31:02):
more expansive, UM, the arts can be. Arn't is often
a reaction to repression. UM. But I think that I'm
hoping that in America and here and throughout the world,
(31:26):
that that will begin to change and an art can
be then an uh an expression or an extension of
freedom and a new reality. And that reality is love
is love and it doesn't matter who it is that
(31:48):
you love. And I think that's the beauty of that
story of this film, is that love is love and
loss is loss. We're going through that, I think the
growing pains of a shifting society. And you know, we
could talk about this a lot, but maybe over one
(32:09):
of your negronis one day. But you know, this whole
idea of you know, opening the doors to people who
were not represented before and yet I I totally understand this,
But the idea of having to have an actor who's
portraying a certain role come from that role. UM, I
(32:30):
think that's a slippery slope too, because are we all
aren't we all occupying me like I'm an actor, but
aren't all actors occupying a a an you know, an
alternate personage, and you know the idea that you have
to be that person to occupy that space. Um, I
(32:52):
don't know. I I find that I find that challenge,
you know, challenging to wrap my head around. And I
don't I don't believe in that. I just read this
interview with Rupert Everett, uh and he said, no, I
don't believe the gay actors should only play that that.
No one who isn't gay should not be able to
(33:13):
play a gay role, and no one who is gay
shouldn't be able to play a straight role, exactly. And
that's the problem. That's the genesis of it. The genesis is,
as I said, before gay actors, gay people were not
allowed to simply be who they were in society. So
(33:37):
if you can't be that, then you're hiding all the time.
And then gay men are playing straight men and only
straight men, and then so everyone so everyone is straight
right in society. But you know, but by the old
(33:57):
sort of standards, and you're like, no, it doesn't make
any sense. It makes no sense. So well, once once
there's an opening, than anybody it sounds so silly, But
anyone then will be accepted playing anyone. You don't mean yes,
(34:22):
making sense or yes you are you are I think.
I think what you're saying is no, no, I no,
I'm thinking about it. It's it's how we view people
as a society that that prevents or gives permission to
people to play a whole host of roles. Because I
think that's what happened to uh Rupert Everett, right. I mean,
(34:46):
he was typecast and right, and I think that the roles,
the roles right up for him because he was only
viewed as a certain way, which was justly unfair. I
don't know, but to me, Ruferts have wonderful actor. That's
that's all I know. I don't I don't know anything
different than that. I don't care if if a person whatever,
(35:09):
they're sexual, I don't really care. Well, I think the
more race are just changing so much, and that people,
you know, I think, I think things have changed so dramatically,
and I'm writing a memoir and right now, and I
just even look back on the nineties when I was
covering stories or you know, some of the questions I asked,
whether it was about sexual harassment with Anita Hill, or
(35:31):
how I interviewed Matthew Shepard's parents, or how we covered
Rodney King. You know, it was just in so many ways,
Stanley clueless. And I think that we have evolved so much.
I mean sometimes to the point where you know, it
comes crashing down on top of you if you if
you haven't evolved enough. But it's just it's really fascinating
(35:52):
to me just how much in the last gosh two
decades or so our attitudes have shifted for the better.
And and I think that's that's what you're saying. No,
I think you're right, and I think particularly in the
particularly in the last like almost like three years. Yeah,
it's frail, but that's also because of the technology. It's technology,
(36:16):
but also, you know too pretty dramatic social movements social
you know, whether you're talking about Black Black Lives Matter,
Me Too, and Time's Up. Um, you know, I think
that the confluence of those two movements have really put
the issues front and center as they've never been before
for the better. I think. You know, obviously the pencil
(36:38):
incolns in certain cases wing too far. And you know,
I think, no, no social justice movement is perfect, but
I think it's uh, you know, I think that that
has has really moved the ball forward in such a
palpable significant way. And so I guess that's what. Yeah. No,
(36:58):
I was gonna say that you have as you said,
but I'm gonna ask you a question if I may.
That you have seen it, you know, as a as
a reporter for so many years, and it has distinctly
changed for you. Do you how do you feel now
(37:19):
about when you're when you're talking to people? How do
you is it Is it easier for you now or
is it harder for you now? Because there are so
many caveats in a way, right, I think the umbre
this is your thing, so you can just no, no, no, yeah,
(37:39):
I mean I think they're listen. I think that, you know,
cultural conditioning, deep seated attitudes that are formed and um,
you know, compounded over years and years of visual stimuli,
you know, com sations, mass media, um, you know, familial
(38:06):
uh kind of I think outlooks, uh you know, they
form us as a person. And I think what what's
really hard is to you know, be vulnerable enough two
to kind of challenge your own your own biases which
have developed over the years. I think that you know,
(38:30):
it can be tricky because I think the current landscape,
you know, people want to jump on people right away,
right this instantaneous judgment, and there's very little forgiveness in
the culture. There's very little forgiveness for mistakes. And I've
made I've made my fair share of mistakes, certainly, and
(38:53):
when you're when you're a public figure, it's it can be.
It can be very tough and very pain well honestly
when when you but but I you know, I would
hope that people can recognize fair minded individuals who want
to learn and want to be better. But it doesn't
happen overnight, necessarily after you know, sixty years of of conditioning.
(39:19):
So I try to be mindful. Um, I try not
to say stupid things. But I also you know, I
I like I like compassionate teachers, you know. I think
that that um you know, and and by the way,
you know, this is me coming from me as a
sixty four year old who has had certain life experiences
(39:41):
and privileges, and I get that, um, But but you know,
it can it can be tricky. And I pride myself
on being a lifelong learner and being open to understanding
and I think, Um, you know, I really appreciate the
opportunity and more than that, I appre shape that changes
I'm witnessing and um, but but I think for for
(40:06):
some people it does take adjusting and and once in
a while, UM, I think a little bit of slack
can be a good thing. You know, I agree, But
I have my twenty five year old, extremely woke daughter
there to keep me in line every step of the way.
How about you do your do your kids your older kids,
(40:29):
not your little ones. Um, do you feel like they're
they're educating you on some of these things? Yes, always, always,
they educate you on who who you are. It's it's
always changing. It's always different, um. I think, particularly in
(40:52):
the pandemic, because there's no consistency. Who knows, you know,
when somebody's living or there, when they're going to go
back to school, when they can come back home and say,
and you know, one of my daughters went and stayed
with her boyfriend for like almost six weeks, and rightly so,
(41:13):
I mean she's twenty one years old, and you know,
and then but he was staying with us for a
while before that, and so I don't know that it's
It's the whole thing is everything is heightened and exacerbated.
(41:33):
Any issues, good or bad, are exacerbated by this pandemic.
But do they teach you about kind of you know,
I feel like young people are are so aware and
so so much better than we we are in some ways,
(41:54):
and and and when it comes to kind of societal
issues and change and and you know, these thorny matters
of race and gender and class, do you feel like
you know, I I first heard the word intersectionality from
my daughter, and uh, what's the word intersectionality. It's about
the intersection of race and gender. And you know, um,
(42:17):
she's so she's so smart. But that's what I meant.
Do they kind of open your eyes and challenge perhaps
some of the way ways you've thought about things. To say, Dad,
have you ever considered this without without question, without question?
I think the only thing that I fear, and this
(42:39):
is inevitable when things sort of start to till in
another direction in extreme too far. Yeah, Uh, is a
a lack of irony. And I think that irony is
absolutely crucial to our existence. It it is the the
(43:05):
sort of genesis or the basis of all humor of
good humor, right right, Um, So I fear the loss
of irony. Um when somebody can't make somebody makes a
(43:26):
joke and you're like, oh you're a racist, or oh
you're a sexist, or oh you're a blah blah blah,
and you're like no, actually, no, no, no, it was
just you know, there was something sort of not even
a joke, just you know something. So I I fear
the loss of irony. But I do think that eventually
(43:46):
things come around, and this is a natural progression. I
think earnestness and irony are probably they're They're not the
best cocktail, right, No, they're not the best cocktail, but
they can. It's like a poost cafe. You don't in
poosh cafe, I don't, okay, so a poosh cafe. If
I look at that, that actually that print behind you
(44:09):
or painting behind you. So it's layers. So what you
do with the posh cafe is you take the heaviest
liquor and you put you know, a drop in, you know,
a shot. Then you take another liquor and you put
it in and they lay on top of one and
that it's a very complicated drink. You can be made
(44:31):
with like seven, fourteen or twenty one likes something insane.
No one would ever. I mean it's disgusting, but visually
it's quite beautiful. Uh, And so you layer it and
that's the way those two things sort of have to
sit like that. But at the same time, you have
(44:52):
we have to let them come together. We have to
let earnestness and irony come together. And we go through
periods of time where that happens, and then it changes again.
I think it, you know, yeah, it changes. Well that's
(45:12):
a good site there again. Yeah, we just need a
good a good shaker like the ones you use, like
the ones you use for your cocktails on Instagram. Wasn't
that as seamless transition? Come on, who are you talking to,
Stanley Tucci? Of course the hot mixologists. We'll get behind
(45:33):
those cocktails right after this. I've gotten such a kick
out of you. First of all, hilariously you're the sauceman,
as you know, Stanley and uh, but also as the
(45:56):
as the the hot mixologist on Instagram. So how did
that all start? Obviously your wife Felicity, who I'm so
happy that you met Felicity, and and you know, you
talked about love is love and lost his lost You
lost your wife. I lost my husband. So that's why
I feel like we actually can talk about that because
(46:18):
we have that in common. But um, I guess, uh,
you and Felicity, first of all, can I ask you
real quickly about your meeting because you were at Emily,
Emily Blunt and John Chris. I always say his name
r Krasinski, right, Prosinsk Krasinski's wedding. I love him, by
(46:38):
the way, I just don't say his name very often. Um.
And that's when you met Felicity, emily sister, and she
had you at hello, right, No, not really, um, she no,
she We actually had met at the devil Wares product premier. Uh.
(47:00):
And I talked to her for a while, but she
ended up really talking to Kate, my late wife, a
lot about books because you know, they're voracious readers. And um,
I actually have a photograph of them together. That's so
that's so moving actually that Felicity's mom took um. But yes,
(47:27):
then I went to EM's wedding and this was uh,
oh gosh, maybe a year yeah, a year after Kate
had passed away, and yeah, you know, we met and
re met and we hit it off and then we
(47:49):
I was coming to England to do uh Captain America
and and yeah and sorry that just made me laugh. No,
I know, it's weird. I know. I played the the
the elderly Jewish scientists who created Captain America, which was actually,
(48:14):
have to say, one of the best jobs I've ever
had in my life. Uh um. And and then we started,
you know, going out to dinner and we started dating
and then yeah that was that. One thing led to
another and you all had two children and uh and
(48:39):
and and this wonderful new life together. So I'm just
I'm just very happy for you both. And I feel
like I feel like Felicity was sort of behind the
Instagram cocktail making that you totally I mean, you know,
I have no savvy when it comes to this stuff.
So she said, um, why don't you do a cocktail
(49:02):
the beginning of Lockdown? First Lockdown, she said, to a
cocktail for Curtis Brown, our agency where she works and
I'm represented by. And I said, yeah, it would just
be an in house thing, and you know you're doing
I said, yeah, great, and then we did it and
sent it to everyone and they were so happy, and
(49:24):
she said, put it on your Instagram. So we did
that and meaning I don't actually know how to do it,
but you know, yeah, you know what I mean. And
then um, uh it that happened. It blew up, as
the kids say, Stanley, it blew up. Yeah, we crashed it. Yeah,
(49:51):
I think you don't say you say we crushed it
or we crashed it. That's the word. Sorry Jesus. Um.
Before we go, I want to give a quick shout
out to your upcoming upcoming book. So what is this
one about and when does it come out? Well, it's
a it's a it's a memoir of sorts. It's called
(50:15):
Taste My Life Through Food And it's exactly that up
to now because I don't know, give me a better
elevator pitch than that. And it's just about like, you know,
growing up and eating great things and then you know,
(50:37):
you know a little bit about Julia and Julia some
of some little anecdotes there and things like that, and
you know, sometimes it delves into the particulars of of
pasta and bologna, uh and experiences with that. Um. Sometimes
(51:00):
you know, it's just I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know what it is. I've never done anything
like it. I'm going through the you know, copy of
its now, which I'm doing that right now. Yeah, I
have I have a memoir that is actually due yesterday, Stanley,
and I've been going through, yeah, and I've been working
(51:21):
on it for about two and a half years, and
I'm going through everything now, and I don't know, I'm
I'm sort of panicked right now that that Gosh, it
makes you feel very vulnerable. You're putting something out in
the world. It's extremely personal, it's ridiculously honest. It's um,
(51:42):
you know about Honestly, it's it's the only memory I'll
ever write. It's about my life and how I got
into this crazy business and sort of the tragedies and
the triumphs of course, and you went through a real loss,
but you know, and also I've had some professional disappointments.
(52:04):
I've dealt with some you know, real dicks in the business,
and um, and so I am like putting this out
there and and all of a sudden, I'm seized by
terror that that I'm doing this, and I kind of
just want to put the whole thing in a fire.
Do you feel that, ever, or is this just me
(52:24):
as I'm going through it today. I thought, what am
I doing? Who cares? You know? And also it's like,
why would you want to? But I want to tell
the story, you know what I mean. I want to
sell the story of food and I'm fascinated by it.
(52:47):
But to tell the story of food, I have to
tell the story about myself, right, And that's hard and scary,
really scary. Really. Yeah, Well, I'm glad you're feeling the
same way. That makes me feel a little bit better.
Going totally, I was totally like not sleeping, worried and
(53:09):
self full, just just full of self down down, and
you know, bordering on loathing. Yes, of course, yes, yes, yeah. Anyway,
Well listen, I feel like this has been a really
helpful therapy session for me. I'll do anything I can
to help you. Thank you, thank you, and uh I
want you to I want you to be able to
(53:30):
be with your children. But I really love talking to you.
Thank you for doing our little podcast daily. Well, thank you,
and I really appreciate it. I'm glad I worked out.
I just think you're wonderful. Thanks Stanley. I love Stanley Tucci.
If you're also on the Tucci train, you've got to
check out this SNL short Tucci Gang with Pete Davidson
(53:51):
singing and Sam Rockwell giving us some good Tucci energy.
It is a riot. Some of you don't know the
name who, but that's that guy from the Home Games.
Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I
Heart Media and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers Army,
(54:14):
Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.
Associate producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The
show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
morning newsletter, Wake Up Paul, go to Katie Currek dot com.
(54:34):
You can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram
and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from
I heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to next question today.
I have such a treat for you, a man you
are certainly familiar with. He can make you laugh, he
can make you swoon, Julia, you are the butter to
my bread and the breath to my life. I love you,
(00:20):
Darling Grew. And he can also make a mean NECRONI
you can do it on the rocks. It's kind of
nice to have it up. It's Stanley Tucci, Everyone's favorite
pandemic sauceman. Enjoy. Are we doing the thing right now?
(00:42):
Or are we? Yeah? Yeah, we're doing it right now.
This isn't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so happy to
see you, and I know that you too. I really
appreciate that you've, Stanley, been able to cram me into
your very very busy but because what can I say,
there's been a Tucci sons. Yeah, Am I right? Yes?
(01:08):
I think so? Yes, which yeah is wonderful and embarrassing. Yes, well,
I think it's just plain wonderful and I'm not embarrassed
at all. But I want to ask you about all
the different things you've been doing, Stanley, because you have
been so busy, you have your CNN series about Italy,
you have an upcoming book, you have a movie you
(01:30):
just did with my my, my sauceman, Colin Firth. I mean,
you're you're also my sauceman's family. But I have had
I have had a thing for Colin Firth, uh for
for decades now. Well it's it's hard not to. We're
going to talk about Colin and your wonderful movie with him,
and also about how you're delighting all your Instagram followers
(01:53):
with your cocktails, and we'll talk about that and you
and Felicity and how that all got started. But I
thought we should start by talking about your extraordinary series
on CNN, which I have to be honest, makes me
very very hungry. And since I've sworn off carbs, damn you,
Stanley Tucci. Is it like a brioche? Yeah, and it's
(02:14):
even healthy as compared to this, This is b spride.
It's a sort of doughnuts with a cream. I can't
imagine a better assignment for you, Stanley, because your Italian
on both sides, you're a foodie, uh from way back,
(02:35):
and you'd love to travel. So how much fun was
this just exploring these regions and and what did you
learn from the experience, Well, I learned a great deal
because we wanted to incorporate always um, not just that
the idea of it. Like, first of all, I wanted
to sort of dispel the myth that Italy is the
(02:57):
food of Italy is bustin pizza in panamajana, which is
not an actual Italian. Yes, I saw, I saw some
of the innerds that you were consuming, and I have
to say, I think I would say check please, I'm
not an adventurous eater Stanley. Oh no, but Katie, then
we'll go out to dinner and you will be fine.
(03:19):
I promise, I promise you needn't be afraid. But the
the I wanted to dispel that myth that you know,
pasta is with every meal and the tomatoes and everything
and so on and so forth. Yes, that's that can
that's true in certain parts of Italy, but not all
parts of Italy. Pasta gives way to polenta, which gives
(03:42):
way to rice, and everything is cyclical and everything is seasonal.
And the Italian still promote this and believe it and
live by it. And I think that's one of the
things it makes them so, that makes that their cuisine
(04:05):
so attractive. But but the but the idea that you
can have um cavalonero, which is a a black kil
that you have that in the North, but you don't
necessarily have that in the South, that you have egg
plant down in the south, but you don't have that.
(04:25):
You never see an egg plant, You'll never see a tomato,
you very seldom have pasta. But the other aspect was
that I wanted to show Italy not in a rope
and a completely romantic light, but to show it truthfully
through its food. And as you delve into that food,
specifically in each region, what you're going to end up
(04:47):
delving into is the society. And every society has issues,
and there is a huge amount of poverty in Italy
to this day, not just in the South but in
the North as well. And there's a lot of prejudice,
there's a lot of um uh, sort of let's say,
(05:12):
governmental confusion as to what a safety net should be
and what a safety net shouldn't be. Um And you
want to in each episode sort of shine a little
bit of a light on that. I think you do
you know, I was I was going to say, Stanley,
I was taken with how you showed sort of these
(05:34):
forces that were budding up against each other in an
episode when you talked about kind of gentrification or trying
to have new restaurants in this certain area and how
they were being bombed, and that to me was a
microcosm of some of the social issues that are happening everywhere,
(05:55):
this reaction to multiculturalism, to disruption, etcetera. Yeah, it's it's
really interesting and it's very sad because to me as
as a as a as an Italian American um. You know, yes,
when Italians came over, they came over because they were
they were suffering terribly in Italy and the between the
(06:17):
wars or prior to World War One. But to think
that Italy would reject people in need when a lot
of countries, American particular, accepted so many Italians when they
were in need, is heartbreaking to me. And it's not
(06:38):
that when the Italians came to America that they weren't vilified,
that they weren't ostracized, that they weren't demonized, but ultimately
what they ended up doing was making our society so
much better. And in Italy there are those who really
(06:59):
see the benefit fits of of immigration and there are those,
particularly in the North who don't uh. And one episode,
the episode of Milan, I interview and spend time with
the guy who is the sort of gamekeeper of of
(07:21):
Lake Como and he looks after the health of the lake.
He's a fisherman and he's an ardent environmentalist and yet
at the same time, and these things don't often go together.
He's he's anti immigration and he's part of the of
the League, which is the right wing um you know,
(07:48):
a political group headed by Salvini Um. So there's a
real dichotomy there and we had a good conversation about it.
But you know, he's a lovely I have a great
family and everything. But you just think if you, if you,
if you could only see that the more diversity there is,
(08:11):
the healthier country is. How did COVID affect the production
schedule and what was it like kind of taking this
on in the middle of a global pandemic. Well, it
was We did the first four episodes prior to the pandemic.
The second you know, the second leg of it was
done just two episodes. It just makes it more complicated,
(08:37):
it makes it harder. It's not it's not as much
fun Um, you want to be you want to follow
all the protocols and be really careful and and every
day you're learning something new at that point about COVID
and um, well still, but it was it was hard.
(08:58):
It was hard. I mean, I have a friend of
my on who's directing a series here now excuse me,
for Netflix, I think for Netflix something and he and he, uh,
one of those, one of those. He told me that
they've added seventeen million dollars to their budget simply for
testing and COVID protocols. I'm doing something here and I'm tested. Uh.
(09:24):
Once I start the job on Thursday, I think I'm
tested five days a week. So if you think about
hundreds of people, how much that costs. Um, it's going
to actually change the face of the film industry significantly.
Because the movie that I made with Colin will will
(09:45):
be called Supernova, that we made for three million, three
million pounds. You won't see a movie like that for
quite a while. Why is that because of the protocols? Okay,
I can't afford it. We'll talk about Supernova, but you
(10:06):
don't really you don't really talk much about the pandemic
in the series, which I thought was interesting. There would
be maybe a mask here, an elbow bump there, and
um was that a conscious decision because Italy was so
devastated and of course we watched in horror as so
(10:26):
many people were dying from from this disease. Did you
feel like it would date it or you know, how
did you decide to handle that? You know, I don't know.
I don't know, Katie, I don't know why we didn't
do that. I think I think we were I think
(10:47):
we were all a bit shocked by it, and I
think we just wanted to try to move forward because
it was at a point where we thought that things
were getting better. And you know, you don't want to
skirt the issue, but you also don't. It's not an investigator,
(11:08):
you know what I mean. It's not it's not that
you want to acknowledge it. But but I going forward,
I would I would like to talk more about that.
I would like to talk more about um, the loss
and also the success of the way the Italians UH
(11:33):
handled it from the get go. You may get a
chance to do that because I know you're doing another season.
Is it going to be searching for Italy or is
it going to be searching for the UK. What are
you going to be searching next, Stanley, Well, we're going
to search different regions. We're gonna do um, we're gonna
(11:55):
do six different regions, six different regions of the world. Italy.
Oh you're doing more Italy though, Yeah, No, not at all.
I'm excited about it. In fact, I think for a
lot of people, we just got so much vicarious pleasure,
(12:17):
not only watching you eat. And I have to ask
how you stay so thin, Stanley, because it's freaking annoying
to watch you eating all that stuff and then to
watch you and you're like, look like you don't even
have body fat anyway. But I think people just love
watching watching it, especially because we are all desperate to travel,
(12:38):
and I think for us to see you enjoying, you know,
these beautiful, fascinating places full of incredible people. I think
I loved, you know, meeting the people behind the food.
I think I think it's sort of spirited us away
from our our pandemic blues, if you will. So I
(12:59):
love it, Lee, and I'm happy you're doing more. Um.
I I'm excited just to to watch whatever you do, Stanley.
So thank you. No, no, because you're you're so fun
to watch and you're kind of easy to be with
on television. I can't explain it, but do you know
what I mean, you're just uh, you just feel like
a travel companion. So it's been really nice. But but um,
(13:23):
do you what's the response been or a lot of
people saying that to you, Like, it's just it's just
so much fun to to see the world, at least
a part of the world. It is, No, it is you,
don't you know? I was. You have to be careful
not to make it trite, as I said, not to
make it. Um. Isn't Italy the most romantic place in
the world. Yes, there's romance and its romance everywhere, but
(13:47):
you know there are darker aspects of every country. Uh,
and we touch on them. But I for me, oh,
for me, it's really just about telling the truth of
that of that country through its cuisine. And the cuisine
(14:10):
is arguably, um, the I think it's the most beloved
food in the world. Um. If anyone, if you said
to anyone, do like Italian food? Have you ever met
a person who says no, no, no? When we come back.
(14:32):
How did Stanley become such a foodie and how does
he stay so damn fit. That's right after this. How
(14:53):
do you stay so skinny? Stanley? I exercise obsessively, um,
and I'm blessed with a very fast metabolism. Really, I
mean really, I toasta like every day. I hate people
like work, I work out. How did you become a
(15:18):
foodie in the first place, because this is not your
first rodeo when it comes to kind of exploring cuisines,
can you take me back to your like food origin
story where you thought, I just I really love food
and who influenced you? Because I sort of know the answer,
but some of our listeners may not. My family, my mother,
(15:40):
my grandmother on both sides. Um, food, food was everything.
Sitting around the table at night was what you just did.
You were not late for dinner? Um. If you were,
you were sort of roundly chastised. Um. And my mother
(16:06):
and I write about this in the book. And my
mother was is an incredible cook. I mean, she's the
she's the kind of person that I mean, had she
chosen to be a professional chef, she would have been extraordinary,
beyond beyond. And I'm not saying this because oh every
(16:30):
Italian boy loves his mother's coaching. You know, it's not
it's not like I've been around you know, uh, not
in that sense, Katie. But but you know, but you know,
you're just like whoa. No matter where I travel, no
matter where I go, I always go back to those
(16:53):
flavors and that process and and when I find something new,
it's great. But ultimately that's the stuff that that really works,
I mean really works. Describe describe the Tucci family dinner
(17:14):
table growing up, because I just want to have people
get an image of it and what it was like,
where it was and kind of the commotion that would
take place there. I mean, we're just in Westchester and
in our house and excuse me, in Katona, and we
had this ranch house that that my parents had built,
(17:37):
which now would be I mean, you couldn't buy you
couldn't buy a car for the price of the house
and the whole thing, beautiful house on a cul de
sac in the in the you know, in suburbia. My
dad came out. He was at our teacher retired. It's
still alive. He's about to be. Wow, that's so nice
(18:01):
for you. That's great. It's great, probably better for him
because he still alive. But but I but yeah, it
was you know that my my mom worked in the
office at the high school where he taught uh in chatta,
(18:22):
and they went to work together a day, came home
every day, so my dad was home when we were
home after school, which was great. Uh. And then you know,
you do your homework or not do your homework. And then, um,
they were always cooking dinner. How many little how many
(18:46):
little two cheese were running around Stanley? There were there
were me and my two sisters, younger sisters. Um, And
it was wonderful, you know. I mean it wasn't the
time of you know, there was one black and white
television and my father used to watch the Huntley Brinkley Report,
right yeah, every night, and my mother cooked. My father
(19:13):
was a sush chef. There was no sort of like
the man does this, the woman does this. It wasn't
it wasn't like that, although she did do more of
the cookie uh because she was really good at it. Um.
And then everready pitched in and cleaned up, and you
sat around the table and you had wonderful conversations or
(19:34):
you had arguments or you had whatever. And it was
but every night was I mean, I remember my mother
just sort of making Paea. That was extraordinary. Were suddenly
you know, making you know creps, you know, with a
shamil and chicken and you know, just and you thought,
(19:59):
she's go onto work. She's worked all day. Then she
comes home and she does all this stuff. My dad
helps her, and then you know it was it was
an amazing, amazing, uh culinary experience every week every week.
(20:20):
So she really infused in you and your dad, I
think a love of food. And so that's kind of
from an early age, how you became kind of uh
enamored with cuisine? And did they speak Italian? How did
you become so proficient in Italian? No, they didn't really speak.
My father spoke some Italian, my mother spoke Italian, but
(20:43):
more dialect. Um. I learned in Florence when I was twelve.
We lived there for a year when I was twelve,
and then um uh of course you know your you
speak fluently because you don't have much else up there. Yeah,
(21:06):
so you know you've become the sort of you know,
lingual sponge. But then I when I was doing Big Night,
I studied Italian again for about a year, and now
before the series, I studied again. So every time I
(21:27):
go you know, it comes back suddenly, it starts to
come back. But I have to make a conservative effort
to to learn it properly because it disappeared. Well it
sounds like you know what you're talking about. All I
know is like Karazi and Grego and shall No, that's
(21:49):
good enough. I'd like to I'd like to learn Italian. Uh,
maybe I'll do that. I think it would be good
for my brain to actually a new language. To do
it is I do with a guy online. Um, he's Italian.
He was teaching here in England. We had like two things,
(22:10):
excuse me, two sessions in person, and then it was
like I was like, don't drive all the way here,
and he was in you know, North London or so
I was like, we'll just do it on that. You know,
this is pre pandemic. Uh. And now he's moved to
Spain where his wife is and um, we just do
(22:32):
it you know on zoom like this, and it's great
and it's really really great. It's really great and we
just like he does not allow me to speak in English,
which is really painful for both of us. Yeah. Um,
I want to talk about your the new book that's
that's coming out but first I want to talk to
(22:53):
you about super Nova. And this this this this small
but very moving movie that you did with my bff
Colin for for the uninitiated, and it is the story
of two men who have been a couple for twenty years. Uh,
and it's it's it's a very quiet story that unfolds
(23:16):
and and obviously your character is in early stages of dementia. Yeah,
teach me what that now? Why? God want? All right,
(23:36):
I want to be able to find it? H try Okay, So, um,
first you have to find the the what do you
call it? It's a shape, the shape, the shape triangle
(23:58):
and you have to find the three bright lights there
that make the triangle. At this one contraw a line horizontally,
that's right, And that's where the milky way is. What
drew you to the role. And why did you say
(24:19):
you must get a million script? Stanley? Let's be honest.
And and you know no, you come on, you do listen.
It's the Tucci Sons. It's the Tucci sons. Come on
maybe now, yeah, but but but but I'm curious, what
what what has to happen to really to really suck
you in and to say I'm going to devote a
(24:41):
lot of time making this movie. And what was it
in this case? It was the purity of the script
and the poetry of it and the absence of drama
and melodrama. Uh, it was gorgeous. It was the script
that I that you read and you go wish I
had written that. It's beautiful. But I was not going
(25:04):
to play that role. I was going to play Colin's role.
And then when I read it, I loved it so much.
And I watched Harry's movie, Harry McQueen, who wrote and
directed it. I watched his first film, which he had
made for ten thousand pounds. Wow. So if any filmmaker
(25:26):
thinks that they need a lot of money to make
a movie, well only when they have expensive actors like
you Stanley. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. But he made this
really beautiful movie for ten thousand pounds. And then I
watched him that I met Harry, and he was as
wonderful as his as his writing and his filmmaking. Uh.
(25:46):
And then I said, I think Collins should play the
other guy. Now, unbeknownst to Harry, I slipped it to Colin,
and um, Colin read it and he called me up.
He goes, oh my god, it's so beautiful. I said,
I know, I know. So then Colin signed on, and
very soon afterward, of course the money came through. With
(26:09):
me signed on, I'm not so sure what would have happened,
but once that happened, we started talking with Harry and
you know, talking through and everything. And then Colin called
me and he goes, I think we have to switch roles.
And I said, I'm just thinking the same thing, but
I don't know why. I was gonna say why. I
(26:31):
mean that I don't know, Katie, I don't know. It
just didn't feel right. So then and you can this
doesn't this doesn't happen. I mean, you can only do
that with your like best friend, and you know, if
you can't go hey, by the way, you know, when
(26:52):
you were signed up for a bro I think we
should switched role, you know, and the studio goes, what
you know, no, um, So we go to Harry, and
poor Harry, you know, blanched and and he's and he said,
all right, well, let's you know, on typical sort of
British fashion, let's read it. So we read five scenes
(27:16):
and then we switched roles because it was more right.
I don't know why. There was something rhythmically more right
about it being this play and the first scene is
is Colin and the two of you. I think I
would say in a semi spoon in bed your semi spooney. Yeah, yeah,
(27:38):
not a full spoon, but yeah, And uh, I don't
know what was it? Was it fun doing this this
movie with someone who you're very close to and you
really like, and you play a gay couple, so you know,
I think it must be an added extra if you
actually like your screen partner helps, if you trust and
(28:01):
love the person that you're working with. Um, it's always
difficult to play the same sex person if you're you know,
that's always more complicated. But in the end, you just
want to tell that story truthfully. UM, And you know
(28:24):
it's it's complex, but ultimately it's the story that makes
makes the difference. And I feel like this is illustrative.
I don't know, I mean, you would know much more
about this than I. But of this opening up of
of art and film too. You know, I hate to
(28:46):
to use sort of uh you know, modern vernacular that
is sometimes overused, but to make it more representative, more inclusive,
more UM, you know, such a variety of experience, says,
I don't know. Do you do you feel that is
really happening? Um, in in in a in a significant
(29:09):
way now, because just as a casual observer, I do,
and I think it's so exciting and wonderful and it
makes you realize how how myopically one sided or one
dimensional a lot of our culture was. And um, and
I'm just curious that if looking at the big picture,
(29:30):
you notice that too. Do you mean regarding every every
different I mean gay stories, black stories, um, you know,
all kinds of stories that I think here before we're
marginalized or are really not told at all. Yes, without
a question, I think what's happening now is a great thing.
(29:54):
There were questions raised, of course, because neither column I
are gay, um, which seems you'd be happy about. But
I think but I think that I think that, Um,
the wonderful thing is that we for for us selfishly,
(30:16):
we have been embraced by the gay community before, having
played gay characters before, and in this film, the same
thing has happened. I think that eventually what is going
to happen And we've talked about this in interviews. UM,
(30:37):
that for me it's a it's a societal issue why uh,
gay actors have not been able to just be whomever
they are. Um. The the more society is open, the
(31:02):
more expansive, UM, the arts can be. Arn't is often
a reaction to repression. UM. But I think that I'm
hoping that in America and here and throughout the world,
(31:26):
that that will begin to change and an art can
be then an uh an expression or an extension of
freedom and a new reality. And that reality is love
is love and it doesn't matter who it is that
(31:48):
you love. And I think that's the beauty of that
story of this film, is that love is love and
loss is loss. We're going through that, I think the
growing pains of a shifting society. And you know, we
could talk about this a lot, but maybe over one
(32:09):
of your negronis one day. But you know, this whole
idea of you know, opening the doors to people who
were not represented before and yet I I totally understand this,
But the idea of having to have an actor who's
portraying a certain role come from that role. UM, I
(32:30):
think that's a slippery slope too, because are we all
aren't we all occupying me like I'm an actor, but
aren't all actors occupying a a an you know, an
alternate personage, and you know the idea that you have
to be that person to occupy that space. Um, I
(32:52):
don't know. I I find that I find that challenge,
you know, challenging to wrap my head around. And I
don't I don't believe in that. I just read this
interview with Rupert Everett, uh and he said, no, I
don't believe the gay actors should only play that that.
No one who isn't gay should not be able to
(33:13):
play a gay role, and no one who is gay
shouldn't be able to play a straight role, exactly. And
that's the problem. That's the genesis of it. The genesis is,
as I said, before gay actors, gay people were not
allowed to simply be who they were in society. So
(33:37):
if you can't be that, then you're hiding all the time.
And then gay men are playing straight men and only
straight men, and then so everyone so everyone is straight
right in society. But you know, but by the old
(33:57):
sort of standards, and you're like, no, it doesn't make
any sense. It makes no sense. So well, once once
there's an opening, than anybody it sounds so silly, But
anyone then will be accepted playing anyone. You don't mean yes,
(34:22):
making sense or yes you are you are I think.
I think what you're saying is no, no, I no,
I'm thinking about it. It's it's how we view people
as a society that that prevents or gives permission to
people to play a whole host of roles. Because I
think that's what happened to uh Rupert Everett, right. I mean,
(34:46):
he was typecast and right, and I think that the roles,
the roles right up for him because he was only
viewed as a certain way, which was justly unfair. I
don't know, but to me, Ruferts have wonderful actor. That's
that's all I know. I don't I don't know anything
different than that. I don't care if if a person whatever,
(35:09):
they're sexual, I don't really care. Well, I think the
more race are just changing so much, and that people,
you know, I think, I think things have changed so dramatically,
and I'm writing a memoir and right now, and I
just even look back on the nineties when I was
covering stories or you know, some of the questions I asked,
whether it was about sexual harassment with Anita Hill, or
(35:31):
how I interviewed Matthew Shepard's parents, or how we covered
Rodney King. You know, it was just in so many ways,
Stanley clueless. And I think that we have evolved so much.
I mean sometimes to the point where you know, it
comes crashing down on top of you if you if
you haven't evolved enough. But it's just it's really fascinating
(35:52):
to me just how much in the last gosh two
decades or so our attitudes have shifted for the better.
And and I think that's that's what you're saying. No,
I think you're right, and I think particularly in the
particularly in the last like almost like three years. Yeah,
it's frail, but that's also because of the technology. It's technology,
(36:16):
but also, you know too pretty dramatic social movements social
you know, whether you're talking about Black Black Lives Matter,
Me Too, and Time's Up. Um, you know, I think
that the confluence of those two movements have really put
the issues front and center as they've never been before
for the better. I think. You know, obviously the pencil
(36:38):
incolns in certain cases wing too far. And you know,
I think, no, no social justice movement is perfect, but
I think it's uh, you know, I think that that
has has really moved the ball forward in such a
palpable significant way. And so I guess that's what. Yeah. No,
(36:58):
I was gonna say that you have as you said,
but I'm gonna ask you a question if I may.
That you have seen it, you know, as a as
a reporter for so many years, and it has distinctly
changed for you. Do you how do you feel now
(37:19):
about when you're when you're talking to people? How do
you is it Is it easier for you now or
is it harder for you now? Because there are so
many caveats in a way, right, I think the umbre
this is your thing, so you can just no, no, no, yeah,
(37:39):
I mean I think they're listen. I think that, you know,
cultural conditioning, deep seated attitudes that are formed and um,
you know, compounded over years and years of visual stimuli,
you know, com sations, mass media, um, you know, familial
(38:06):
uh kind of I think outlooks, uh you know, they
form us as a person. And I think what what's
really hard is to you know, be vulnerable enough two
to kind of challenge your own your own biases which
have developed over the years. I think that you know,
(38:30):
it can be tricky because I think the current landscape,
you know, people want to jump on people right away,
right this instantaneous judgment, and there's very little forgiveness in
the culture. There's very little forgiveness for mistakes. And I've
made I've made my fair share of mistakes, certainly, and
(38:53):
when you're when you're a public figure, it's it can be.
It can be very tough and very pain well honestly
when when you but but I you know, I would
hope that people can recognize fair minded individuals who want
to learn and want to be better. But it doesn't
happen overnight, necessarily after you know, sixty years of of conditioning.
(39:19):
So I try to be mindful. Um, I try not
to say stupid things. But I also you know, I
I like I like compassionate teachers, you know. I think
that that um you know, and and by the way,
you know, this is me coming from me as a
sixty four year old who has had certain life experiences
(39:41):
and privileges, and I get that, um, But but you know,
it can it can be tricky. And I pride myself
on being a lifelong learner and being open to understanding
and I think, Um, you know, I really appreciate the
opportunity and more than that, I appre shape that changes
I'm witnessing and um, but but I think for for
(40:06):
some people it does take adjusting and and once in
a while, UM, I think a little bit of slack
can be a good thing. You know, I agree, But
I have my twenty five year old, extremely woke daughter
there to keep me in line every step of the way.
How about you do your do your kids your older kids,
(40:29):
not your little ones. Um, do you feel like they're
they're educating you on some of these things? Yes, always, always,
they educate you on who who you are. It's it's
always changing. It's always different, um. I think, particularly in
(40:52):
the pandemic, because there's no consistency. Who knows, you know,
when somebody's living or there, when they're going to go
back to school, when they can come back home and say,
and you know, one of my daughters went and stayed
with her boyfriend for like almost six weeks, and rightly so,
(41:13):
I mean she's twenty one years old, and you know,
and then but he was staying with us for a
while before that, and so I don't know that it's
It's the whole thing is everything is heightened and exacerbated.
(41:33):
Any issues, good or bad, are exacerbated by this pandemic.
But do they teach you about kind of you know,
I feel like young people are are so aware and
so so much better than we we are in some ways,
(41:54):
and and and when it comes to kind of societal
issues and change and and you know, these thorny matters
of race and gender and class, do you feel like
you know, I I first heard the word intersectionality from
my daughter, and uh, what's the word intersectionality. It's about
the intersection of race and gender. And you know, um,
(42:17):
she's so she's so smart. But that's what I meant.
Do they kind of open your eyes and challenge perhaps
some of the way ways you've thought about things. To say, Dad,
have you ever considered this without without question, without question?
I think the only thing that I fear, and this
(42:39):
is inevitable when things sort of start to till in
another direction in extreme too far. Yeah, Uh, is a
a lack of irony. And I think that irony is
absolutely crucial to our existence. It it is the the
(43:05):
sort of genesis or the basis of all humor of
good humor, right right, Um, So I fear the loss
of irony. Um when somebody can't make somebody makes a
(43:26):
joke and you're like, oh you're a racist, or oh
you're a sexist, or oh you're a blah blah blah,
and you're like no, actually, no, no, no, it was
just you know, there was something sort of not even
a joke, just you know something. So I I fear
the loss of irony. But I do think that eventually
(43:46):
things come around, and this is a natural progression. I
think earnestness and irony are probably they're They're not the
best cocktail, right, No, they're not the best cocktail, but
they can. It's like a poost cafe. You don't in
poosh cafe, I don't, okay, so a poosh cafe. If
I look at that, that actually that print behind you
(44:09):
or painting behind you. So it's layers. So what you
do with the posh cafe is you take the heaviest
liquor and you put you know, a drop in, you know,
a shot. Then you take another liquor and you put
it in and they lay on top of one and
that it's a very complicated drink. You can be made
(44:31):
with like seven, fourteen or twenty one likes something insane.
No one would ever. I mean it's disgusting, but visually
it's quite beautiful. Uh, And so you layer it and
that's the way those two things sort of have to
sit like that. But at the same time, you have
(44:52):
we have to let them come together. We have to
let earnestness and irony come together. And we go through
periods of time where that happens, and then it changes again.
I think it, you know, yeah, it changes. Well that's
(45:12):
a good site there again. Yeah, we just need a
good a good shaker like the ones you use, like
the ones you use for your cocktails on Instagram. Wasn't
that as seamless transition? Come on, who are you talking to,
Stanley Tucci? Of course the hot mixologists. We'll get behind
(45:33):
those cocktails right after this. I've gotten such a kick
out of you. First of all, hilariously you're the sauceman,
as you know, Stanley and uh, but also as the
(45:56):
as the the hot mixologist on Instagram. So how did
that all start? Obviously your wife Felicity, who I'm so
happy that you met Felicity, and and you know, you
talked about love is love and lost his lost You
lost your wife. I lost my husband. So that's why
I feel like we actually can talk about that because
(46:18):
we have that in common. But um, I guess, uh,
you and Felicity, first of all, can I ask you
real quickly about your meeting because you were at Emily,
Emily Blunt and John Chris. I always say his name
r Krasinski, right, Prosinsk Krasinski's wedding. I love him, by
(46:38):
the way, I just don't say his name very often. Um.
And that's when you met Felicity, emily sister, and she
had you at hello, right, No, not really, um, she no,
she We actually had met at the devil Wares product premier. Uh.
(47:00):
And I talked to her for a while, but she
ended up really talking to Kate, my late wife, a
lot about books because you know, they're voracious readers. And um,
I actually have a photograph of them together. That's so
that's so moving actually that Felicity's mom took um. But yes,
(47:27):
then I went to EM's wedding and this was uh,
oh gosh, maybe a year yeah, a year after Kate
had passed away, and yeah, you know, we met and
re met and we hit it off and then we
(47:49):
I was coming to England to do uh Captain America
and and yeah and sorry that just made me laugh. No,
I know, it's weird. I know. I played the the
the elderly Jewish scientists who created Captain America, which was actually,
(48:14):
have to say, one of the best jobs I've ever
had in my life. Uh um. And and then we started,
you know, going out to dinner and we started dating
and then yeah that was that. One thing led to
another and you all had two children and uh and
(48:39):
and and this wonderful new life together. So I'm just
I'm just very happy for you both. And I feel
like I feel like Felicity was sort of behind the
Instagram cocktail making that you totally I mean, you know,
I have no savvy when it comes to this stuff.
So she said, um, why don't you do a cocktail
(49:02):
the beginning of Lockdown? First Lockdown, she said, to a
cocktail for Curtis Brown, our agency where she works and
I'm represented by. And I said, yeah, it would just
be an in house thing, and you know you're doing
I said, yeah, great, and then we did it and
sent it to everyone and they were so happy, and
(49:24):
she said, put it on your Instagram. So we did
that and meaning I don't actually know how to do it,
but you know, yeah, you know what I mean. And
then um, uh it that happened. It blew up, as
the kids say, Stanley, it blew up. Yeah, we crashed it. Yeah,
(49:51):
I think you don't say you say we crushed it
or we crashed it. That's the word. Sorry Jesus. Um.
Before we go, I want to give a quick shout
out to your upcoming upcoming book. So what is this
one about and when does it come out? Well, it's
a it's a it's a memoir of sorts. It's called
(50:15):
Taste My Life Through Food And it's exactly that up
to now because I don't know, give me a better
elevator pitch than that. And it's just about like, you know,
growing up and eating great things and then you know,
(50:37):
you know a little bit about Julia and Julia some
of some little anecdotes there and things like that, and
you know, sometimes it delves into the particulars of of
pasta and bologna, uh and experiences with that. Um. Sometimes
(51:00):
you know, it's just I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know what it is. I've never done anything
like it. I'm going through the you know, copy of
its now, which I'm doing that right now. Yeah, I
have I have a memoir that is actually due yesterday, Stanley,
and I've been going through, yeah, and I've been working
(51:21):
on it for about two and a half years, and
I'm going through everything now, and I don't know, I'm
I'm sort of panicked right now that that Gosh, it
makes you feel very vulnerable. You're putting something out in
the world. It's extremely personal, it's ridiculously honest. It's um,
(51:42):
you know about Honestly, it's it's the only memory I'll
ever write. It's about my life and how I got
into this crazy business and sort of the tragedies and
the triumphs of course, and you went through a real loss,
but you know, and also I've had some professional disappointments.
(52:04):
I've dealt with some you know, real dicks in the business,
and um, and so I am like putting this out
there and and all of a sudden, I'm seized by
terror that that I'm doing this, and I kind of
just want to put the whole thing in a fire.
Do you feel that, ever, or is this just me
(52:24):
as I'm going through it today. I thought, what am
I doing? Who cares? You know? And also it's like,
why would you want to? But I want to tell
the story, you know what I mean. I want to
sell the story of food and I'm fascinated by it.
(52:47):
But to tell the story of food, I have to
tell the story about myself, right, And that's hard and scary,
really scary. Really. Yeah, Well, I'm glad you're feeling the
same way. That makes me feel a little bit better.
Going totally, I was totally like not sleeping, worried and
(53:09):
self full, just just full of self down down, and
you know, bordering on loathing. Yes, of course, yes, yes, yeah. Anyway,
Well listen, I feel like this has been a really
helpful therapy session for me. I'll do anything I can
to help you. Thank you, thank you, and uh I
want you to I want you to be able to
(53:30):
be with your children. But I really love talking to you.
Thank you for doing our little podcast daily. Well, thank you,
and I really appreciate it. I'm glad I worked out.
I just think you're wonderful. Thanks Stanley. I love Stanley Tucci.
If you're also on the Tucci train, you've got to
check out this SNL short Tucci Gang with Pete Davidson
(53:51):
singing and Sam Rockwell giving us some good Tucci energy.
It is a riot. Some of you don't know the
name who, but that's that guy from the Home Games.
Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I
Heart Media and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers Army,
(54:14):
Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.
Associate producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The
show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
morning newsletter, Wake Up Paul, go to Katie Currek dot com.
(54:34):
You can also find me at Katie Curic on Instagram
and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from
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