April 13, 2023 • 32 mins
The hosts of the hit podcast, Teenager Therapy – Gael Aitor, Kayla Suarez, and Thomas Phamm – have been making a difference in the lives of their young audience for nearly five years. Now, on the verge of turning 20, they share the wisdom they’ve discovered along the way – and it might surprise you. They believe that the best relationships happen IRL, friendships require a lot of work, and the best way to reach teens is by using one of the most powerful communications tools there is (and they should know): vulnerability. Their openness will allow you to see how much teens’ lives have changed – and give you new insight into the mental health crisis that affects so many of them right now.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question.
Do you ever wonder what your teenage kids might be
talking about when you're not listening? Scary right? Well, my
guests today are the host of a very popular gen
Z podcast called Teenager Therapy, gyel Atour, Kayla Suarez and
(00:26):
Thomas fam These kids, and I do mean kids, are
just nineteen years old, but they are wise beyond their
years and you're going to soon hear why they I guess, Gyles,
since you're more of a flaky person, how do you
feel when other people flake on you? It's almost as
soon as I make the decision, I think I regret this.
(00:49):
If you think you know teens, think again. Their podcast
is funny, honest, instructive, real, but most of all vulnerable.
Today we're talking about talks, Bottoms, matthewinity, femininity, and the
endless pain and struggle of finding yourself when gay. By now,
(01:13):
we've all heard about the mental health crisis affecting so
many teenagers. My guest today have become a mirror for
other teens, and that's helping all of them cope by
making them feel less alone. By the way, if you
want to get Smarter every morning with a breakdown of
the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and
(01:35):
pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up
Call by going to katiecurreic dot com. Very high tech
operation here I can see. So. One of the things
I love about teenager therapy is it's really not therapy,
(01:56):
and you're not therapists. You're some friends sitting around talking
about a lot of different things. So tell me how
that in and of itself is therapeutic to listen to, guy,
I want it. You start well. Actually, I think at
first we didn't realize what could make us so interesting
(02:16):
to listen to. That was one of our biggest words,
and I think we still feel that insecurity of we're
not doing anything special. We really are just sitting down
and saying, Hey, what do we want to talk about today?
And then we talk about it pretty messily. Sometimes we
go off track, or we go back, or we go
all over the place, And I realize, I think what
makes us sell therapeutic for our listeners is that we
(02:38):
have universal issues. At the end of the day, I
think the emotions are the same. We all have that
shared humanity in that aspect and I think there's so
much comfort in knowing that, Okay, they're going through that
as well, they're talking about it, they're dealing with it.
It's just comforting. And how do you all decide, Kaylea,
what you all are going to talk about? It's usually
(02:59):
just based on what's going on in our lives. Well,
you all have done something like two thirty episodes, right
What started as kind of a fun exercise has now
turned into a really, you know, a big deal, a
podcast that gets a lot of downloads. I think the
topics that our audience loves the most is whenever we
(03:19):
talk about relationships, friend group drama and what else is
a good one? Guys, sex, drugs and rock and roll
minus the rock and roll. But we did just talk
about drugs, and I think our listeners are really good
enjoy it. It's kind of interesting how because we grow up,
(03:40):
we have new experience, it's more to talk about. But
also there's just always some little tiny switch in the
emotion we feel or the way we approached it that's
different from the way we would have even just a
year ago. So documenting that sometimes means even if we
cover the same topic, it's a totally new perspective, right,
and it feels like the world is changing so quickly late,
you know, I imagine you all must talk a lot
(04:03):
about social media and the pressures that come from seeing
people quote unquote live their best life. As Oprah would say,
I think with that, I know that I try to
limit myself. I mean, even with the podcast, you know,
episodes air or things are posted on TikTok, I just
don't like to look at it. I actively appoint it. Actually,
(04:25):
just because social media plays such a huge role now,
and I mean especially TikTok. Even myself I fall into
the trap of I see these teenagers my age doing
these big grand things. They're traveling, and I think to myself, like, oh,
I'm just in school right now, you know. But again,
I'm just reminding myself that not everything is as it
(04:47):
seems on screen. We'll talk a little more about kind
of gen z and some of their concerns and the
rap they get that might not always be accurate. But
but let's go back to the kind of logistics of
doing this podcast. It started with five people, right, take
me back to the genesis of this, Thomas, how did
(05:08):
it happen? So it was actually Guyle's idea, and he
was listening to Casey Nisat's Couples Therapy, and he got
really inspired by it because it was a married couple,
yet he was able to relate to them on such
like a deeper level than he had anticipated. And he
wanted the same thing but for teenagers, and he got
(05:29):
five of his friends. The idea that I pitched to
them was, I think it'd be interesting to be able
to hear what other teams are going through. And that
was what year and you were how old? So we
were fifteen years old. I was fifteen, so was everyone else.
We were not necessarily all friends with each other, but
we knew of each other, and you know, the members
were interconnected in different ways. And so I asked my friends,
(05:53):
do you want to be part of it? They say yes?
And the first episode was published in like September eighteen,
twenty eighteen. And what was the first podcast about? Do
you remember? It was about our friends? We kind of
It was so funny because all we did was we
just put a camera with a microphone in the middle,
and then we said, you sit on a bed. We did,
(06:14):
we did, We sat on a bed and we didn't
fit and so it was always so hot in the room,
we were sweating. It was after school. We were also tired.
Pretty low tech tech. Yeah, it's still very low tech, right.
I mean, that's part of the ethos of the podcast
is really friends sitting around our being in somebody's bedroom,
(06:36):
and that's kind of the ritual. And then you all
have dinner together, I know, after every podcast, which is
so nice. And and do you think the vibe would
totally change if it was in a studio like we're
sitting in right now. I feel like it would definitely.
I think you'd be a lot cooler, Kayla, in terms
of temperature. The set of the bedroom just let's us
(07:00):
very intimate, and because it's like a place that it's
just his room, so we are all comforted, so it's
always your room to room. Yeah. And it's back at
home too in Anaheim, So it's just it all feels
very natural. When you were putting together the quote unquote
cast Guy Elf for the podcast, did you intentionally seek
people with different life experiences? I'm curious sort of how
(07:22):
you thought about representation when you were putting it together, right,
I Mean I was thinking about it at the level
that a fifteen year old would possibly you'd expect to
think about it, right, I wasn't going into diversity training.
I guess I'm expecting a lot from you, But I
mean I do remember being like, well, we do want
different perspectives, and Thomas was like, yeah, we should have
(07:42):
different sexis, like we need a girl perspective. I was like, oh, yeah,
we should do that, and we were like okay, Like Thomas,
you and me were gay, we need straight people, we
need a straight man perspective, and we're like, okay, let's
get a girl too. And so we just kind of
naturally assembled into a relatively diverse cast because we all
actually have pretty different personalities. And I think it's important
(08:03):
for listeners to kind of hear themselves in various stories
and in various people you know and life experiences. I'm
sure that some listeners relate more to Caleb than they
do to you, or gay listeners relate to you guys,
and probably have some of the same questions or experiences
as you two have. And I think another aspect of
(08:24):
that is because I didn't envision it to go to
where we are now, right, Were you surprised Klein when
it really took off. I mean, you guys had you know,
it grew pretty quickly. Now you have how many downloads
do you get per episode? I'm kind of jealous, actually,
around like forty five thousand dollars per episode. Yeah, it's
(08:49):
like the podcast I've told over the last four years,
I've gotten like over like twelve million starts, and it's
been wild. How big it is? I bet it's kind
of shocking, right, Yeah. I think it's kind of surprises
people because if you go to our YouTube channel that
we don't use very much, it has maybe like a
couple thousand subscribers, and people like, oh, that's a little podcast.
Because podcasts it's all behind the scenes. So where I
(09:10):
told them, like how big it actually is, I think
it catches people off guard. How has the podcast evolved?
Because it's gone from five hosts to three hosts. You
all are now twenty, right, or almost five years ago,
so you've matured and grown, and I'm curious how you've
seen it evolved through the years. I feel that it's
(09:33):
very much the same tone, but it's just us who's
changing in us giving more mature opinions. Sometimes I think
back to when we first started and the opinions that
we were just spitting out when we were fifteen years old.
It just it pains me to know that it's out
there because I don't know what I was saying, and
it probably was not great advice or anything. But I
(09:57):
think that's kind of what is so beautiful about this
podcast is that it kind of represents and shows how
much we have grown throughout the years, and it really
is a coming of age story told in real time.
Where are you in school? Again? Usc? Both of you
go Trojans? So how do you do it if you're
(10:21):
both in college? I mean, how do you find this
regular time? And do you still do it in your bedroom? Thomas? Yes,
I think going home just made sense for us. My
bedroom has already been set up for that way. Yeah.
I think the college thing was not as big of
an obstacle as we expected it to be, and we
have just been able to share so much about the
(10:42):
whole transition from high school to college and our college experiences. Guyelle,
why aren't you in school? Yeah? So, how's a big decision?
I suppose? I mean I decided not to go to college, Whine,
So it was a smart guy, I can tell. And also,
this really good for your college applet it was. It
(11:02):
really did a lot for my application because it's so
funny because my plan was when I was in high school,
I was like, I want to create something that's a
really big deal, so I don't have to focus on
grades as much and I could just let the work
speak for myself and hopefully colleges will see that. So
I wanted to go to college, and when college decisions
came around, the college that I was accepted to was
UC Berkeley, which is in the Bay Area. Right, that's
(11:24):
a damn good school. It is. It is hard to
get into, it isn't it. Yeah, it's pretty hard to
get into. So I was surprised. I mean, the plan
works because my grades were not like Berkeley standards. I
wasn't four point I was like three point three, three
point five bees regular classes. But I guess they loved
the work that I was doing. And at the time,
I was just thinking, well, if I go to school,
(11:45):
how am I going to manage? Am I going to
be handling that well? And so I thought maybe I
just should not go because there's a momentum happening with
the podcast. It was growing really quickly, and I thought
do I really want to go to school for four years,
possibly pause the podcast to slow it down to focus
on school, and then come back and have to restart
this momentum. And so I made the decision. I think
(12:07):
I just want to focus on doing what I already do.
I I was going to go to school for marketing
and business, and I'm like, I already got the hang
of it somewhat. I mean, the work speaks for itself.
And so decided not to go to school focus on
the podcast. And so that's been my full time job
until now until now, meaning well now I also am
like working on funny enough. The next step for me
(12:29):
is creating a podcast network, my own startup along with Kayla.
So now I guess I just fell into the career podcasting,
and so I started with teenager Therapy, but now I
want to make even more and kind of give birth
to a lot of baby podcasts that and do you
want them all to be targeted to teenagers or are
you open to other things? So it's called Astro Studios,
(12:51):
and it's a gen z podcast network that's focused on
developing and producing podcasts for young people that are mostly
focused around self help and helping teams answer the question
what are others going through? It's the same thesis of
teenage of therapy that if you share the experiences of
real people, real people want to listen. And that's all
really what podcasts can be. And so it's those comforting
(13:11):
conversations that we really want to capture. Well, when we
come back, we're going to talk about gen z of
which you are apart and try to figure out what's
going on with them. That's right after this. I never
do that, but I just thought it was a good segue,
(13:32):
and usually segues don't present themselves point starting. I'm just
starting the college process, but like there's a lot of
like stigma and about like the acceptance rates and the
extracurriculars needed, and it's like I almost don't want to
tell people where I'm applying because there's like all this judgment.
I'm a couple of friends of mine who don't see
(13:53):
like colleges are right fit for them, and they will
like to go to trade school. But there's certain people
that will always get you because you know, they'll think
that the cause that they are going to is this
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(15:20):
we had whole years and a half of not seeing
anyone or doing anything, and how we're supposed to like
We're expected to be fully like social and not so
awkward after and I feel like unfair I guess okay,
(15:40):
so we are back with the hosts of Teenager Therapy.
Let's talk about the generation that's listening to this podcast.
I think a lot of people are really worried about teenagers.
It's hard to be a teenager today. What are some
of the things that teas are really struggling with. Well,
(16:03):
I mean, you've heard the US search in general sound
the alarm on the youth mental health crisis, and it
seems like, for one, teams are lonely. You know, people
are trying to figure out why. What could be the causes?
It's smartphones? Is that the apps on the smartphones? What
isn't I mean, if you look at the data, there's
clearly an issue. And I think what we see just
from a personal experience is there's this disconnect from communities.
(16:28):
But I think something that's a little bit more interesting
to me is there's a lot more pressure to be
this perfect person. And I think it's really weighing heavily
on a lot of young adults because you have things
like cancel Culture or Twitter, and you know, these media
storms when you make any sort of mistake that I
think a lot of young people are feeling a lot
(16:48):
of pressure to do as much as possible be a
perfect activist or a perfect citizen, a perfect human, perfect student,
exactly a perfect student, and it's just not possible, right,
And so I think a big problem that I see
is we all need to give ourselves a little bit
more grace and a little bit more forgiveness and learned
that we're all going through these issues and we're figuring
(17:10):
out a little by little. And so when you go
on social media and see people being attacked for different
aspects that you might have not known, judge, it puts
a lot of pressure. And it also seems, Kayla, like
there's so much built in competition. I mean, the world
is competitive place already, but when you have these very
(17:31):
concrete ways to weigh your quote unquote popularity through likes
and through follows and things like that, is that part
of it or what do you think is bugging gen Z?
I would say it's a part of it. I mean,
it depends on the person that you're talking to. But
I think it's just because the growing popularity of social media.
(17:54):
You know, I feel like an ab normal amount of
teams are now online, starting as young from like thirteen,
maybe even twelve or ten, which is so crazy to
think about. But you just initially start social media for
the fun of it, but then you quickly realize that, oh,
a lot of people are getting likes doing this, or
they're getting a lot of likes doing that, and so
it's just following trends in a way to gain popularity
(18:18):
or likes or anything like that. And they're also being
exposed to so much so young. Exactly, it's really scary.
And I think that goes for a lot of things
where teenagers just don't know who to go to for
their problems. You know. Of course there's the classic answer
of you know, see a therapist or go to a doctor,
but a lot of the times that's just not accessible
or it's not a conversation that you just casually bring
(18:41):
up with your parents, and a lot of people honestly
can't afford it. Exactly. Yeah, one other issue. So the
answer isn't as simple as just quot to therapy. That's right, right,
it starts. I mean it's such a fundamental issue that
one of loneliness, and there's one we're lacking community. I mean,
you have these big giant cities that feel empty, you
feel devoid of community, and genuine interaction. You have dating
(19:02):
apps that encourage people to only talk to people online,
and you see people be more and more opposed to
spontaneous in person connection and conversation. Also, there's something about
it where swipe swipe, swipe swipe, It makes people feel
so disposable, right, And there's something about that mentality that
(19:26):
I think can then seep into real life. When you're
on those dating apps, you're constantly looking for the next
best thing, right. You know, you can never settle on
just one person, because you're like, what if a few
more swipes and I meet somebody even prettier or you know,
somebody even better. And it's always that mindset that then
translates into your real life where you just aren't happy
(19:47):
with what you're seeing in person, you never satisfy. The
thing of a quality that gen Z doesn't and my
eyes feels lacking, is the ability to work on more
relationships and not throw them away so easily. I think
you know, at times the wrong advice can get passed
around of protecting your peace and not letting anyone disturb
(20:10):
in anyone that doesn't serve you, you kind of disregard them.
But I think a lot of the fulfilling relationships do
come from putting in the work to talk about the issues,
which I think is why our message resonates, because we
just really want to show people vulnerability and talking about
your issues openly is what creates meaningful connections. They're not
just this instant chemistry tied with that work. I mean,
(20:32):
it takes work. What have you noticed, Thomas that you're
quiet over there about. Yeah, Well, it's hard to ever
feel satisfied and happy with your life if you see
people your age already doing the things you want to
and it makes you feel bad. It makes you feel
kind of hopeless. But I also want to acknowledge that
(20:55):
social media has done a lot of good for gen
Z as well. It has, I feel like, made us
feel very educated on a lot of topics that we
otherwise would not have known, and it's a way for
us to connect. I mean, even just doing this podcast
that wouldn't have been possible without social media. Yeah. I mean,
it's the ultimate double edged sword a thing because there
(21:16):
are so many good things and so many terribly destructive
things as well that come with it. And I think
the pandemic only exacerbated what was already percolating in terms
of the lack of community and the social isolation that
a lot of people are experiencing. You know, it's interesting
they're not having these real life experiences because they're living
(21:40):
so much of their lives virtually. Yeah. Yeah, I mean
that's a concern too, because I don't think there are
enough spaces fourteens together and have the sense of community
that we want to build and encourage, and so that's
a big issue. Something that I actually feel very passionate
about is creating more third spaces that are in school
or work where as a young adult, as an adolescent,
(22:00):
you could go and hang out with your friends and
not be fine for loitering or for not being where
you're supposed to be. So if your friends don't have houses,
where do you and your friends go? Maybe you go
to a park, but then it's cold, so you'd rather
just stay inside and interact on we used to go
you see malls or dad. I mean, there's not much
to do. It just feels like where do you go
where you just want to feel at peace? Right? Like
(22:21):
a big dream of mine is where do teenagers go
when they're lonely? I mean, if you don't have people
in your school that you enjoy. If you don't have
people at home that you enjoy, if you don't have
any spaces that you enjoy, where do you go to
get that sense of connection or even just to feel
at peace, because how do you escape it all in
a way that is safe? And I would love to
start that with teenager therapy. I think that's a big goal.
(22:41):
It's creating more spaces where people can gather and there's
young people that go, and you know, that's somewhere you
can meet new people that isn't necessarily dating apps. So
I think gen z is actually on the same wavelength
as you ask. We don't enjoy dating apps. We're tireder
of than we want to meet people in person have
that interaction. Yeah, I don't know. It's like we say
we want human connection, but then when it's presented to us,
(23:02):
all of a sudden, we're like, actually, it's because we're
not used to it. Yeah. Yeah, everyone's always at Target.
Once you get your license, like everybody is, there's nowhere
else to go and it's open till ten, So everyone's
always at Target. It's crazy, it's actually wild. Yeah, oh yeah,
it's like, oh that's team currencies. Yeah, I feel cool
basement and good snacks exactly. That's a big thing. I like,
(23:25):
can you out in person better than you don't? There's nothing,
nothing beats the real thing. When we come back. How
can parents connect better with their teens? We'll have some
advice for them. I want to be done with teenage times.
(23:46):
Is everyone's always on top of you for for like
no reason. You look up your parents as a role model, right,
and sometimes you don't think your parents are real people.
So sometimes they just like open up to you, like
the mistakes you've made in your life. Maybe they think, okay,
like tag them my parents before and I will say
total outsider if I'm make mistake, just kind of tell
us about like their high school struggle. So it makes
(24:08):
us feel less alone in ours Thomas, how can parents
do a better job, especially given the loneliness epidemic? You know,
the pressures young people are feeling. How can parents help more?
I think, just like emotional availability, I think the reason
why a lot of kids hide from their parents is
(24:30):
because they don't literally they really don't give them the
time or space to be talking about those issues, or
if they do, they feel that there's going to be
a consequence for it. And I think even just seeing
how gen Z believes that they're going to be the
next generation of parents that are going to do better,
I think the current parents can look at that and
(24:50):
it's not too late to become that parent and be
able to let your children feel comfortable about sharing their
issues with you. I have many parents listen to the show.
Do you think parents are learning from your conversations just
as as your team listeners are. I know that they
have because we've received some comments and like dms about
them listening, which is negative or positive. Positive, positive because
(25:14):
it helps them understand their child a little bit more,
which is always nice to hear because it shows that
they're taking some step in the right direction. And I
think that's a huge part two of just we would
want to see our parents show us that they're also
trying to learn, you know, rather than us always having
to talk about our feelings. Why don't you know? Why
don't you talk about it too? You know? I think
(25:35):
a big part is also just leading by example, because
I feel vulnerability in a way as contagious. You know,
if you see one person talk about their feelings, it
makes you more inclined to talk about it. Parents just
like to put up this act of they know what
they're doing, they're always they're fine, they have all the answers,
(25:56):
which I know is not right at all. So I
think is being honest about that would would go a
long way. What do you think? I agree? I think
whenever you know, sometimes we will speak of panels, and
one of the questions we get, which is funny, is
just how can I have my children feel more comfortable
opening up to me? I always give them the same
(26:17):
answer that I think vulnerability you can't expect it without
giving it in return. So I think to parents, if
you want your kids to open up, you have to
open up yourself. You have to show when you cry,
when you're feeling her, when you're feeling vulnerable. And that's
what really gives a message Okay, it's safe, like I
can do this too. You're not just this parent, You're
this human being. It shows a lot of humanity. I
(26:39):
wanted to ask you about one thing that I think
is contributing to the generation gap, and that is the
change in how we view the LGBTQ plus population. Gender
identity and sexual orientation is so much more normalized among
young people and judged or criticized or otherwise in the
(27:04):
way it was when I was growing up. And I
read a statistic recently that said twenty one percent of
gen Z self identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or
something other than heterosexual. So that's nearly twice as many
as millennials, and the gap gets even bigger among older
(27:26):
generations like mine. I don't know, I'm just very interested
in your perspective on it. Honestly, it's like, how can
you not be open minded at this point after everything
that's happened. It's almost like we don't really have a
choice but to be ourselves and really speak up when
we can. Because of the platforms we've had. I think
(27:47):
gen Z just has this openness to change that a
lot of other generations didn't really have. I mean, it's
also because we have so many more perspectives available at
all times, so everything becomes normalized so much quicker. But
when you're exposed to something you every day, it's hard
to be shocked or against it because you're like, oh, yeah,
I mean there's more to it, there's more to it.
And so really, when it comes to being LGBT. It's
(28:09):
just what can you do? No one really cares. You
see it everywhere, it's just other people. It's not really
something that's a lot on a lot of people's mind.
I think it makes a lot of older people uncomfortable.
And I'm curious how you view the reaction to the openness. Well,
I think it's expected that old generations aren't as open
(28:31):
to it. I mean, it's definitely this heartening to see it,
and you see bills like in Florida being passed around,
and it just makes you wonder how we're making so
much progress but backtracking in some of the most important ways.
I think a lot of our generation is hoping that
as soon as we get into power and these older
generations kind of step off and die die out exactly,
(28:52):
I mean, you'll start to see a big shift. I
mean that's the goal at least. I mean, you're you're
seeing a lot more gen Z being able to actually
be eligible for office, and so their policies are completely
different than the ones that you're seeing in older generations.
And so the backlash is weird because you I think
there's it's just the natural pushback against new things. I mean,
(29:13):
you're use your old way, so it's you're going to
stick to it. Well, Thomas, tell me what your hopes
and dreams are for the future. What are you hoping
to do when you graduate from USC and because we
have these two doing astro studios and I'm curious what
you're looking forward to. Well, I'm still very committed to
the overall message of teenager Therapy and it would be
(29:36):
nice to expand this from an American podcast to international podcasts.
So I think teenagers everywhere have the same issues. I
think it's we are all experiencing very universal problems. But
it would just be cool because everyone can bring in
such new perspectives and sometimes I wish that we had
(30:00):
more because it really is just the three of us
and we've all grown up in the same area. I mean,
there's so many different life experiences for teenagers everywhere. You know,
it'd be cool to do like a day in the
life of a teenager. I know people have done that before.
They pick a single day and then they give everybody
(30:21):
the same assignment. It would be really interesting. I think
I think that's the vision, right, Yeah, that is the
vision yeah for you. Yeah, Well, I'm really glad that
I got a chance to talk to you all. You
give me hope for the future, which sounds so cheesy
and cliche, but it's true. You know. No, every every
(30:42):
couple podcast episodes we say a cliche and we're like,
we've accepted it's true. People say it for a reason
they really do. Well. Thank you, Thank you all for
coming in and best of luck with Astro Studios and
with Teenager Therapy and all the exciting things that are
out of you in the future. I'm excited all of
(31:03):
you appreciate it. Thanks for listening everyone. If you have
a question for me or want to share your thoughts
about how you navigate this crazy world reach out. You
can leave a short message at six O nine five
one two five five oh five, or you can send
me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear
(31:24):
from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and
Katie Currekmedia. The executive producers are Met Katie Curik and
Courtney Litz. Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers
are Adriana Fasio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is
Matt Russell, who also composed our theme music. For more
(31:45):
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the
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can also find me on Instagram and all my social
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(32:12):
Are you Battling Cancer? I'm passionate about raising awareness about
early detection, and it's also critical to understand all treatment options,
especially their impact on survival and quality of life. View
Ray has reinvented cancer treatment with Meridian MRI guided radiation therapy.
We're nearly eighty percent of patients complete treatment in as
(32:36):
few as five sessions, often with little or no side effects.
Innovation like Meridian gives hope to millions of people around
the world. Locate a Meridian at fewray dot com.
Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question.
Do you ever wonder what your teenage kids might be
talking about when you're not listening? Scary right? Well, my
guests today are the host of a very popular gen
Z podcast called Teenager Therapy, gyel Atour, Kayla Suarez and
(00:26):
Thomas fam These kids, and I do mean kids, are
just nineteen years old, but they are wise beyond their
years and you're going to soon hear why they I guess, Gyles,
since you're more of a flaky person, how do you
feel when other people flake on you? It's almost as
soon as I make the decision, I think I regret this.
(00:49):
If you think you know teens, think again. Their podcast
is funny, honest, instructive, real, but most of all vulnerable.
Today we're talking about talks, Bottoms, matthewinity, femininity, and the
endless pain and struggle of finding yourself when gay. By now,
(01:13):
we've all heard about the mental health crisis affecting so
many teenagers. My guest today have become a mirror for
other teens, and that's helping all of them cope by
making them feel less alone. By the way, if you
want to get Smarter every morning with a breakdown of
the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and
(01:35):
pop culture. Sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up
Call by going to katiecurreic dot com. Very high tech
operation here I can see. So. One of the things
I love about teenager therapy is it's really not therapy,
(01:56):
and you're not therapists. You're some friends sitting around talking
about a lot of different things. So tell me how
that in and of itself is therapeutic to listen to, guy,
I want it. You start well. Actually, I think at
first we didn't realize what could make us so interesting
(02:16):
to listen to. That was one of our biggest words,
and I think we still feel that insecurity of we're
not doing anything special. We really are just sitting down
and saying, Hey, what do we want to talk about today?
And then we talk about it pretty messily. Sometimes we
go off track, or we go back, or we go
all over the place, And I realize, I think what
makes us sell therapeutic for our listeners is that we
(02:38):
have universal issues. At the end of the day, I
think the emotions are the same. We all have that
shared humanity in that aspect and I think there's so
much comfort in knowing that, Okay, they're going through that
as well, they're talking about it, they're dealing with it.
It's just comforting. And how do you all decide, Kaylea,
what you all are going to talk about? It's usually
(02:59):
just based on what's going on in our lives. Well,
you all have done something like two thirty episodes, right
What started as kind of a fun exercise has now
turned into a really, you know, a big deal, a
podcast that gets a lot of downloads. I think the
topics that our audience loves the most is whenever we
(03:19):
talk about relationships, friend group drama and what else is
a good one? Guys, sex, drugs and rock and roll
minus the rock and roll. But we did just talk
about drugs, and I think our listeners are really good
enjoy it. It's kind of interesting how because we grow up,
(03:40):
we have new experience, it's more to talk about. But
also there's just always some little tiny switch in the
emotion we feel or the way we approached it that's
different from the way we would have even just a
year ago. So documenting that sometimes means even if we
cover the same topic, it's a totally new perspective, right,
and it feels like the world is changing so quickly late,
you know, I imagine you all must talk a lot
(04:03):
about social media and the pressures that come from seeing
people quote unquote live their best life. As Oprah would say,
I think with that, I know that I try to
limit myself. I mean, even with the podcast, you know,
episodes air or things are posted on TikTok, I just
don't like to look at it. I actively appoint it. Actually,
(04:25):
just because social media plays such a huge role now,
and I mean especially TikTok. Even myself I fall into
the trap of I see these teenagers my age doing
these big grand things. They're traveling, and I think to myself, like, oh,
I'm just in school right now, you know. But again,
I'm just reminding myself that not everything is as it
(04:47):
seems on screen. We'll talk a little more about kind
of gen z and some of their concerns and the
rap they get that might not always be accurate. But
but let's go back to the kind of logistics of
doing this podcast. It started with five people, right, take
me back to the genesis of this, Thomas, how did
(05:08):
it happen? So it was actually Guyle's idea, and he
was listening to Casey Nisat's Couples Therapy, and he got
really inspired by it because it was a married couple,
yet he was able to relate to them on such
like a deeper level than he had anticipated. And he
wanted the same thing but for teenagers, and he got
(05:29):
five of his friends. The idea that I pitched to
them was, I think it'd be interesting to be able
to hear what other teams are going through. And that
was what year and you were how old? So we
were fifteen years old. I was fifteen, so was everyone else.
We were not necessarily all friends with each other, but
we knew of each other, and you know, the members
were interconnected in different ways. And so I asked my friends,
(05:53):
do you want to be part of it? They say yes?
And the first episode was published in like September eighteen,
twenty eighteen. And what was the first podcast about? Do
you remember? It was about our friends? We kind of
It was so funny because all we did was we
just put a camera with a microphone in the middle,
and then we said, you sit on a bed. We did,
(06:14):
we did, We sat on a bed and we didn't
fit and so it was always so hot in the room,
we were sweating. It was after school. We were also tired.
Pretty low tech tech. Yeah, it's still very low tech, right.
I mean, that's part of the ethos of the podcast
is really friends sitting around our being in somebody's bedroom,
(06:36):
and that's kind of the ritual. And then you all
have dinner together, I know, after every podcast, which is
so nice. And and do you think the vibe would
totally change if it was in a studio like we're
sitting in right now. I feel like it would definitely.
I think you'd be a lot cooler, Kayla, in terms
of temperature. The set of the bedroom just let's us
(07:00):
very intimate, and because it's like a place that it's
just his room, so we are all comforted, so it's
always your room to room. Yeah. And it's back at
home too in Anaheim, So it's just it all feels
very natural. When you were putting together the quote unquote
cast Guy Elf for the podcast, did you intentionally seek
people with different life experiences? I'm curious sort of how
(07:22):
you thought about representation when you were putting it together, right,
I Mean I was thinking about it at the level
that a fifteen year old would possibly you'd expect to
think about it, right, I wasn't going into diversity training.
I guess I'm expecting a lot from you, But I
mean I do remember being like, well, we do want
different perspectives, and Thomas was like, yeah, we should have
(07:42):
different sexis, like we need a girl perspective. I was like, oh, yeah,
we should do that, and we were like okay, Like Thomas,
you and me were gay, we need straight people, we
need a straight man perspective, and we're like, okay, let's
get a girl too. And so we just kind of
naturally assembled into a relatively diverse cast because we all
actually have pretty different personalities. And I think it's important
(08:03):
for listeners to kind of hear themselves in various stories
and in various people you know and life experiences. I'm
sure that some listeners relate more to Caleb than they
do to you, or gay listeners relate to you guys,
and probably have some of the same questions or experiences
as you two have. And I think another aspect of
(08:24):
that is because I didn't envision it to go to
where we are now, right, Were you surprised Klein when
it really took off. I mean, you guys had you know,
it grew pretty quickly. Now you have how many downloads
do you get per episode? I'm kind of jealous, actually,
around like forty five thousand dollars per episode. Yeah, it's
(08:49):
like the podcast I've told over the last four years,
I've gotten like over like twelve million starts, and it's
been wild. How big it is? I bet it's kind
of shocking, right, Yeah. I think it's kind of surprises
people because if you go to our YouTube channel that
we don't use very much, it has maybe like a
couple thousand subscribers, and people like, oh, that's a little podcast.
Because podcasts it's all behind the scenes. So where I
(09:10):
told them, like how big it actually is, I think
it catches people off guard. How has the podcast evolved?
Because it's gone from five hosts to three hosts. You
all are now twenty, right, or almost five years ago,
so you've matured and grown, and I'm curious how you've
seen it evolved through the years. I feel that it's
(09:33):
very much the same tone, but it's just us who's
changing in us giving more mature opinions. Sometimes I think
back to when we first started and the opinions that
we were just spitting out when we were fifteen years old.
It just it pains me to know that it's out
there because I don't know what I was saying, and
it probably was not great advice or anything. But I
(09:57):
think that's kind of what is so beautiful about this
podcast is that it kind of represents and shows how
much we have grown throughout the years, and it really
is a coming of age story told in real time.
Where are you in school? Again? Usc? Both of you
go Trojans? So how do you do it if you're
(10:21):
both in college? I mean, how do you find this
regular time? And do you still do it in your bedroom? Thomas? Yes,
I think going home just made sense for us. My
bedroom has already been set up for that way. Yeah.
I think the college thing was not as big of
an obstacle as we expected it to be, and we
have just been able to share so much about the
(10:42):
whole transition from high school to college and our college experiences. Guyelle,
why aren't you in school? Yeah? So, how's a big decision?
I suppose? I mean I decided not to go to college, Whine,
So it was a smart guy, I can tell. And also,
this really good for your college applet it was. It
(11:02):
really did a lot for my application because it's so
funny because my plan was when I was in high school,
I was like, I want to create something that's a
really big deal, so I don't have to focus on
grades as much and I could just let the work
speak for myself and hopefully colleges will see that. So
I wanted to go to college, and when college decisions
came around, the college that I was accepted to was
UC Berkeley, which is in the Bay Area. Right, that's
(11:24):
a damn good school. It is. It is hard to
get into, it isn't it. Yeah, it's pretty hard to
get into. So I was surprised. I mean, the plan
works because my grades were not like Berkeley standards. I
wasn't four point I was like three point three, three
point five bees regular classes. But I guess they loved
the work that I was doing. And at the time,
I was just thinking, well, if I go to school,
(11:45):
how am I going to manage? Am I going to
be handling that well? And so I thought maybe I
just should not go because there's a momentum happening with
the podcast. It was growing really quickly, and I thought
do I really want to go to school for four years,
possibly pause the podcast to slow it down to focus
on school, and then come back and have to restart
this momentum. And so I made the decision. I think
(12:07):
I just want to focus on doing what I already do.
I I was going to go to school for marketing
and business, and I'm like, I already got the hang
of it somewhat. I mean, the work speaks for itself.
And so decided not to go to school focus on
the podcast. And so that's been my full time job
until now until now, meaning well now I also am
like working on funny enough. The next step for me
(12:29):
is creating a podcast network, my own startup along with Kayla.
So now I guess I just fell into the career podcasting,
and so I started with teenager Therapy, but now I
want to make even more and kind of give birth
to a lot of baby podcasts that and do you
want them all to be targeted to teenagers or are
you open to other things? So it's called Astro Studios,
(12:51):
and it's a gen z podcast network that's focused on
developing and producing podcasts for young people that are mostly
focused around self help and helping teams answer the question
what are others going through? It's the same thesis of
teenage of therapy that if you share the experiences of
real people, real people want to listen. And that's all
really what podcasts can be. And so it's those comforting
(13:11):
conversations that we really want to capture. Well, when we
come back, we're going to talk about gen z of
which you are apart and try to figure out what's
going on with them. That's right after this. I never
do that, but I just thought it was a good segue,
(13:32):
and usually segues don't present themselves point starting. I'm just
starting the college process, but like there's a lot of
like stigma and about like the acceptance rates and the
extracurriculars needed, and it's like I almost don't want to
tell people where I'm applying because there's like all this judgment.
I'm a couple of friends of mine who don't see
(13:53):
like colleges are right fit for them, and they will
like to go to trade school. But there's certain people
that will always get you because you know, they'll think
that the cause that they are going to is this
better than yours? More? After the break, are you or
a loved one battling cancer. I'm passionate about raising awareness
(14:13):
about the importance of early detection and for patients and
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(15:20):
we had whole years and a half of not seeing
anyone or doing anything, and how we're supposed to like
We're expected to be fully like social and not so
awkward after and I feel like unfair I guess okay,
(15:40):
so we are back with the hosts of Teenager Therapy.
Let's talk about the generation that's listening to this podcast.
I think a lot of people are really worried about teenagers.
It's hard to be a teenager today. What are some
of the things that teas are really struggling with. Well,
(16:03):
I mean, you've heard the US search in general sound
the alarm on the youth mental health crisis, and it
seems like, for one, teams are lonely. You know, people
are trying to figure out why. What could be the causes?
It's smartphones? Is that the apps on the smartphones? What
isn't I mean, if you look at the data, there's
clearly an issue. And I think what we see just
from a personal experience is there's this disconnect from communities.
(16:28):
But I think something that's a little bit more interesting
to me is there's a lot more pressure to be
this perfect person. And I think it's really weighing heavily
on a lot of young adults because you have things
like cancel Culture or Twitter, and you know, these media
storms when you make any sort of mistake that I
think a lot of young people are feeling a lot
(16:48):
of pressure to do as much as possible be a
perfect activist or a perfect citizen, a perfect human, perfect student,
exactly a perfect student, and it's just not possible, right,
And so I think a big problem that I see
is we all need to give ourselves a little bit
more grace and a little bit more forgiveness and learned
that we're all going through these issues and we're figuring
(17:10):
out a little by little. And so when you go
on social media and see people being attacked for different
aspects that you might have not known, judge, it puts
a lot of pressure. And it also seems, Kayla, like
there's so much built in competition. I mean, the world
is competitive place already, but when you have these very
(17:31):
concrete ways to weigh your quote unquote popularity through likes
and through follows and things like that, is that part
of it or what do you think is bugging gen Z?
I would say it's a part of it. I mean,
it depends on the person that you're talking to. But
I think it's just because the growing popularity of social media.
(17:54):
You know, I feel like an ab normal amount of
teams are now online, starting as young from like thirteen,
maybe even twelve or ten, which is so crazy to
think about. But you just initially start social media for
the fun of it, but then you quickly realize that, oh,
a lot of people are getting likes doing this, or
they're getting a lot of likes doing that, and so
it's just following trends in a way to gain popularity
(18:18):
or likes or anything like that. And they're also being
exposed to so much so young. Exactly, it's really scary.
And I think that goes for a lot of things
where teenagers just don't know who to go to for
their problems. You know. Of course there's the classic answer
of you know, see a therapist or go to a doctor,
but a lot of the times that's just not accessible
or it's not a conversation that you just casually bring
(18:41):
up with your parents, and a lot of people honestly
can't afford it. Exactly. Yeah, one other issue. So the
answer isn't as simple as just quot to therapy. That's right, right,
it starts. I mean it's such a fundamental issue that
one of loneliness, and there's one we're lacking community. I mean,
you have these big giant cities that feel empty, you
feel devoid of community, and genuine interaction. You have dating
(19:02):
apps that encourage people to only talk to people online,
and you see people be more and more opposed to
spontaneous in person connection and conversation. Also, there's something about
it where swipe swipe, swipe swipe, It makes people feel
so disposable, right, And there's something about that mentality that
(19:26):
I think can then seep into real life. When you're
on those dating apps, you're constantly looking for the next
best thing, right. You know, you can never settle on
just one person, because you're like, what if a few
more swipes and I meet somebody even prettier or you know,
somebody even better. And it's always that mindset that then
translates into your real life where you just aren't happy
(19:47):
with what you're seeing in person, you never satisfy. The
thing of a quality that gen Z doesn't and my
eyes feels lacking, is the ability to work on more
relationships and not throw them away so easily. I think
you know, at times the wrong advice can get passed
around of protecting your peace and not letting anyone disturb
(20:10):
in anyone that doesn't serve you, you kind of disregard them.
But I think a lot of the fulfilling relationships do
come from putting in the work to talk about the issues,
which I think is why our message resonates, because we
just really want to show people vulnerability and talking about
your issues openly is what creates meaningful connections. They're not
just this instant chemistry tied with that work. I mean,
(20:32):
it takes work. What have you noticed, Thomas that you're
quiet over there about. Yeah, Well, it's hard to ever
feel satisfied and happy with your life if you see
people your age already doing the things you want to
and it makes you feel bad. It makes you feel
kind of hopeless. But I also want to acknowledge that
(20:55):
social media has done a lot of good for gen
Z as well. It has, I feel like, made us
feel very educated on a lot of topics that we
otherwise would not have known, and it's a way for
us to connect. I mean, even just doing this podcast
that wouldn't have been possible without social media. Yeah. I mean,
it's the ultimate double edged sword a thing because there
(21:16):
are so many good things and so many terribly destructive
things as well that come with it. And I think
the pandemic only exacerbated what was already percolating in terms
of the lack of community and the social isolation that
a lot of people are experiencing. You know, it's interesting
they're not having these real life experiences because they're living
(21:40):
so much of their lives virtually. Yeah. Yeah, I mean
that's a concern too, because I don't think there are
enough spaces fourteens together and have the sense of community
that we want to build and encourage, and so that's
a big issue. Something that I actually feel very passionate
about is creating more third spaces that are in school
or work where as a young adult, as an adolescent,
(22:00):
you could go and hang out with your friends and
not be fine for loitering or for not being where
you're supposed to be. So if your friends don't have houses,
where do you and your friends go? Maybe you go
to a park, but then it's cold, so you'd rather
just stay inside and interact on we used to go
you see malls or dad. I mean, there's not much
to do. It just feels like where do you go
where you just want to feel at peace? Right? Like
(22:21):
a big dream of mine is where do teenagers go
when they're lonely? I mean, if you don't have people
in your school that you enjoy. If you don't have
people at home that you enjoy, if you don't have
any spaces that you enjoy, where do you go to
get that sense of connection or even just to feel
at peace, because how do you escape it all in
a way that is safe? And I would love to
start that with teenager therapy. I think that's a big goal.
(22:41):
It's creating more spaces where people can gather and there's
young people that go, and you know, that's somewhere you
can meet new people that isn't necessarily dating apps. So
I think gen z is actually on the same wavelength
as you ask. We don't enjoy dating apps. We're tireder
of than we want to meet people in person have
that interaction. Yeah, I don't know. It's like we say
we want human connection, but then when it's presented to us,
(23:02):
all of a sudden, we're like, actually, it's because we're
not used to it. Yeah. Yeah, everyone's always at Target.
Once you get your license, like everybody is, there's nowhere
else to go and it's open till ten, So everyone's
always at Target. It's crazy, it's actually wild. Yeah, oh yeah,
it's like, oh that's team currencies. Yeah, I feel cool
basement and good snacks exactly. That's a big thing. I like,
(23:25):
can you out in person better than you don't? There's nothing,
nothing beats the real thing. When we come back. How
can parents connect better with their teens? We'll have some
advice for them. I want to be done with teenage times.
(23:46):
Is everyone's always on top of you for for like
no reason. You look up your parents as a role model, right,
and sometimes you don't think your parents are real people.
So sometimes they just like open up to you, like
the mistakes you've made in your life. Maybe they think, okay,
like tag them my parents before and I will say
total outsider if I'm make mistake, just kind of tell
us about like their high school struggle. So it makes
(24:08):
us feel less alone in ours Thomas, how can parents
do a better job, especially given the loneliness epidemic? You know,
the pressures young people are feeling. How can parents help more?
I think, just like emotional availability, I think the reason
why a lot of kids hide from their parents is
(24:30):
because they don't literally they really don't give them the
time or space to be talking about those issues, or
if they do, they feel that there's going to be
a consequence for it. And I think even just seeing
how gen Z believes that they're going to be the
next generation of parents that are going to do better,
I think the current parents can look at that and
(24:50):
it's not too late to become that parent and be
able to let your children feel comfortable about sharing their
issues with you. I have many parents listen to the show.
Do you think parents are learning from your conversations just
as as your team listeners are. I know that they
have because we've received some comments and like dms about
them listening, which is negative or positive. Positive, positive because
(25:14):
it helps them understand their child a little bit more,
which is always nice to hear because it shows that
they're taking some step in the right direction. And I
think that's a huge part two of just we would
want to see our parents show us that they're also
trying to learn, you know, rather than us always having
to talk about our feelings. Why don't you know? Why
don't you talk about it too? You know? I think
(25:35):
a big part is also just leading by example, because
I feel vulnerability in a way as contagious. You know,
if you see one person talk about their feelings, it
makes you more inclined to talk about it. Parents just
like to put up this act of they know what
they're doing, they're always they're fine, they have all the answers,
(25:56):
which I know is not right at all. So I
think is being honest about that would would go a
long way. What do you think? I agree? I think
whenever you know, sometimes we will speak of panels, and
one of the questions we get, which is funny, is
just how can I have my children feel more comfortable
opening up to me? I always give them the same
(26:17):
answer that I think vulnerability you can't expect it without
giving it in return. So I think to parents, if
you want your kids to open up, you have to
open up yourself. You have to show when you cry,
when you're feeling her, when you're feeling vulnerable. And that's
what really gives a message Okay, it's safe, like I
can do this too. You're not just this parent, You're
this human being. It shows a lot of humanity. I
(26:39):
wanted to ask you about one thing that I think
is contributing to the generation gap, and that is the
change in how we view the LGBTQ plus population. Gender
identity and sexual orientation is so much more normalized among
young people and judged or criticized or otherwise in the
(27:04):
way it was when I was growing up. And I
read a statistic recently that said twenty one percent of
gen Z self identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or
something other than heterosexual. So that's nearly twice as many
as millennials, and the gap gets even bigger among older
(27:26):
generations like mine. I don't know, I'm just very interested
in your perspective on it. Honestly, it's like, how can
you not be open minded at this point after everything
that's happened. It's almost like we don't really have a
choice but to be ourselves and really speak up when
we can. Because of the platforms we've had. I think
(27:47):
gen Z just has this openness to change that a
lot of other generations didn't really have. I mean, it's
also because we have so many more perspectives available at
all times, so everything becomes normalized so much quicker. But
when you're exposed to something you every day, it's hard
to be shocked or against it because you're like, oh, yeah,
I mean there's more to it, there's more to it.
And so really, when it comes to being LGBT. It's
(28:09):
just what can you do? No one really cares. You
see it everywhere, it's just other people. It's not really
something that's a lot on a lot of people's mind.
I think it makes a lot of older people uncomfortable.
And I'm curious how you view the reaction to the openness. Well,
I think it's expected that old generations aren't as open
(28:31):
to it. I mean, it's definitely this heartening to see it,
and you see bills like in Florida being passed around,
and it just makes you wonder how we're making so
much progress but backtracking in some of the most important ways.
I think a lot of our generation is hoping that
as soon as we get into power and these older
generations kind of step off and die die out exactly,
(28:52):
I mean, you'll start to see a big shift. I
mean that's the goal at least. I mean, you're you're
seeing a lot more gen Z being able to actually
be eligible for office, and so their policies are completely
different than the ones that you're seeing in older generations.
And so the backlash is weird because you I think
there's it's just the natural pushback against new things. I mean,
(29:13):
you're use your old way, so it's you're going to
stick to it. Well, Thomas, tell me what your hopes
and dreams are for the future. What are you hoping
to do when you graduate from USC and because we
have these two doing astro studios and I'm curious what
you're looking forward to. Well, I'm still very committed to
the overall message of teenager Therapy and it would be
(29:36):
nice to expand this from an American podcast to international podcasts.
So I think teenagers everywhere have the same issues. I
think it's we are all experiencing very universal problems. But
it would just be cool because everyone can bring in
such new perspectives and sometimes I wish that we had
(30:00):
more because it really is just the three of us
and we've all grown up in the same area. I mean,
there's so many different life experiences for teenagers everywhere. You know,
it'd be cool to do like a day in the
life of a teenager. I know people have done that before.
They pick a single day and then they give everybody
(30:21):
the same assignment. It would be really interesting. I think
I think that's the vision, right, Yeah, that is the
vision yeah for you. Yeah, Well, I'm really glad that
I got a chance to talk to you all. You
give me hope for the future, which sounds so cheesy
and cliche, but it's true. You know. No, every every
(30:42):
couple podcast episodes we say a cliche and we're like,
we've accepted it's true. People say it for a reason
they really do. Well. Thank you, Thank you all for
coming in and best of luck with Astro Studios and
with Teenager Therapy and all the exciting things that are
out of you in the future. I'm excited all of
(31:03):
you appreciate it. Thanks for listening everyone. If you have
a question for me or want to share your thoughts
about how you navigate this crazy world reach out. You
can leave a short message at six O nine five
one two five five oh five, or you can send
me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear
(31:24):
from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and
Katie Currekmedia. The executive producers are Met Katie Curik and
Courtney Litz. Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers
are Adriana Fasio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is
Matt Russell, who also composed our theme music. For more
(31:45):
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
newsletter wake Up Call, go to the description in the
podcast app, or visit us at Katiecurrek dot com. You
can also find me on Instagram and all my social
media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(32:12):
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