This episode is presented by Midi Health, a virtual care clinic dedicated to providing expert menopause and perimenopause care to women in midlife.
Twenty-four years ago, Katie Couric aired her first colonoscopy on the ‘Today Show.' It was an up-close and personal experience that helped demystify a still-taboo health procedure.
A study would later find that colonoscopies increased by 20 percent as a result of Katie airing her personal business on national television. It was called “The Couric Effect.” And it turns out, the Couric Effect is still rolling. “Using you as a model,” Sen. Amy Klobuchar tells Katie, “I’ve tried to really talk about this.” On this episode, Katie and the Minnesota Democrat talk about the Senator’s recent disclosure of her breast cancer diagnosis and treatment and how it could have gone another way. “I should have gone in a year earlier.”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, it's Katie. Welcome to Wellness. Check our series of
some of our favorite Next Question episodes focused on women's
health and wellness. Enjoy. Hey everybody, I'm Kittie Kuric and
this is Next Question. So I've written this memoir. It's
out in just a few weeks, and as you might imagine,
(00:22):
the process has really forced me to put my life
in perspective. What I've realized is that when I look
back at all of it, there's one moment that stands
out as the thing I'm most proud of, and that
is I have a pretty little colon. That's right showing
the inside of my colon on morning television. But you
(00:44):
have put the scope in yet?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, we're really.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, Okay, good correct sign.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We're doing it. We're almost done. You're going to feel
at Pramler and.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
How there is a lot I've done in the fight
against colorectal cancer, the number two cancer killer of men
and women combined. I've raised hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Yam established the monahand Center, a comprehensive gastro intestinal cancer
center at New York Presbyterian Hospital where my husband Jay
was treated, and co founded stand up to cancer. But
(01:18):
when I filmed my first kolonoscoby and aired it on
the Today Show, that up close and personal view of
my insides had an almost immediate impact. It prompted a
lot of people to call their doctors and get screened.
In fact, there was actually a study done on it.
The University of Michigan found a twenty percent increase in
(01:38):
colonoscopies as a result of my segment. They actually called it, yes,
the current effect.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's sharing the news, it's sharing the information so it
doesn't happen to other people and they catch it.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Senator Amy Klovichar knows when I'm talking about. In early September,
the Minnesota Democrat revealed that back in February, she was
diagnosed with stage one breast cancer. She had a lumpectomy
to remove the cancer and then radiation. By August, her
doctor said her treatment had gone well. But now she's
on a mission to share her story and how it
(02:15):
could have easily gone another way.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's been so just amazing to hear all the stories
that people have written me. They called, I'm sure you
had this when you went on the show and you
did the colonoscopy and you made very clear that everyone
should do this. You shocked people into thinking differently about it,
and so the stories of people getting their exams going
(02:39):
in has been incredibly.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Rewarding, made it all worth it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And I'm wearing pink today to remind everyone Breast Cancer Month,
go in, get your screening.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Breast cancer is the most common form of cancer among women.
In fact, every year more than two hundred and fifty
thousand women are diagnosed in the US, and like so
many cancers, holy detection can be life saving. But with
the pandemic, there's been an alarming drop in breast cancer
screenings down eighty seven percent. That's right, eighty seven percent
(03:12):
compared to pre pandemic numbers. For Senator Klobachar, that statistic
isn't all that surprising.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Like so many women, Katie, I put it off. I
put it off through the pandemic, and at first that
made sense, right because they didn't have there were a
lot of routine things weren't going on. But after a
while there was really no excuse except that I kind
of just put it off. And then when I went
in and got this routine mammogram is when I found
(03:41):
out that I had stage one a breast cancer. And
I got that call, and you know, from your own
life and you've been such a tremendous warrior to let
people know how important screenings are after losing your husband
and the whole story, it was unbelievable. And by the way,
I thought about that a few times as this was
going on. I then got that call and they said,
(04:04):
you know those white spots that we saw, it's actually cancer.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And then I immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Started talking to different doctors, made a plan, got a
lump tectomy a few months later, got the radiation two
days after my dad died because of the Senate schedule.
It was so hard to figure this all out, but
I got the treatment in a timely manner, which was
really good.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But the exam I put off.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And that's when I found out that, you know, one
out of three women are one out of three people
put off exams, routine exams during the pandemic, still putting
them off, And a whole bunch of women are walking
around right now with undetected breast cancer, which is really scary.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And so I've tried to.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Using you as a model, Katie, I've tried to really
talk about this in that way to remind nine people
how you can save lives just by finding things out early.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I was on the cusp.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I mean, I found it out, but I should have
gone in a year earlier.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's so true, Senator Clovich are and such an important
message because so many people will lose their battles because
they did weren't the beneficiaries of early detection. And that
is such a critically important message to get out. The
earlier things are found, the easier they are to treat.
(05:31):
I mean, it's really as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They say, my chances of getting it again are just
like the general population. I think that's the miraculous nature
of the treatments right now. One they can tailor them
depending on what stage it is and if you need
chemo or mas sectomy and the like. And I bet
the earlier they catch it, the better you are, as
you just said, And so I feel really good about
(05:55):
the diagnosis. But a few things during that time that
I realized. One, I was so grateful to my family,
so much gratitude because I actually decided I wasn't going
to disclose everything at that moment because my dad was
dying and I wanted a lot of the focus on him.
We had the investigation of the insurrection at the Capitol
(06:15):
and I was in charge.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Of that with three other senators.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I was in charge of the hearings on the election bill,
and there was just a lot going on and I.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Didn't want it to be about that about me.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At that moment, I knew I was going to make
a public and so I waited till the end of
the summer and did it then.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And that worked out for me. But when people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Public officials are not when it starts to be a
situation where they can't go to work, of course they're
going to explain it.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
But I was able to work it around that and
not do it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But so even more so, I was so grateful to
my family because they were like my husband getting up
at four am to take me to radiation days in
a row. The of course, the doctors and versus the
perfect strangers who didn't know that I had a lump
tech to me and I wasn't supposed to lift my
(07:05):
luggage up.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
When I flew back.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And forth between Minnesota, DC, I just stand there looking
for Lauren and they'd be like, can I help you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
And so you know, there were a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Nice things and moments I remember of people helping me out,
even when they didn't know they were doing it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But you know, thinking about what was happening in your life,
your sweet dad dying. Jim Klobuchar, of course, a newspaper columnist,
and I know you all were very, very close. It
sounds like you have the kind of relationship with your
dad that I had with my dad, which I write
a lot about. But you know, I think about all
(07:44):
these stressors going on at once, and honestly, my heart
is racing a little bit just thinking about how you
were able to manage everything coming at you at once.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
How were you able to manage all that well.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I always remember John McCain's last words to me, or
the last thing he pointed to. I visited him at
his ranch when he was dying and with Cindy, my husband,
and he couldn't really talk very much, and he pointed
to a word from his last book of phrase where
he said, there's nothing more liberating than fighting for a
cause larger than yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
And for me, the work that I was.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Doing at that moment, the combination of that investigation, which
was focused on the security at the Capitol, now there's
a bigger one going on of course about the root
causes and everything that happened, which needs to be investigated
over in the House. But that and then that election
bill going on at the same time that we had
(08:40):
to get through the committee. We had to get agreement
with Center Mansion, which we did over the summer. Now
we have the process in front of us. But that
was a cause larger than anything happening to me.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So that was a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And then, as you said, my dad, he had this
incredible life. He did everything from you ride his bicycle
around Lake Superior, too, covering the Mafia funeral in Italy,
to writing twenty three books to climbing the second highest
(09:14):
mountain in Peru. I mean, he just had this incredible
life and he had Alzheimer's, so it was this long
goodbye and being there was important with someone with Alzheimer's,
which we couldn't do the year because of pandemic, but
being there at the end was important because you don't
always know when someone with Alzheimer's is going to start
(09:35):
talking again or remember certain things, which he often did sporadically.
And the funniest part of some of the women who
worked at the assisted living who loved him so much.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
They were I think Liberian, and they were.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Learning English, and they had a dictionary next to his
bed because he kept using so many new words for
them and long words as they would look them up
up and learn them.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So it was kind of cool. Leaves teaching to the end.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
When we come back, I get curious about Capitol Hill,
big Tech, the January sixth insurrection, and yes, even the
twenty twenty four election. More with Senator Amy klovichark right
after this. I'd love to ask you about a couple
(10:28):
of the things you mentioned, because obviously I'm watching this
investigation into January sixth unfold people refusing to testify. Do
you think we're ever going to get to the bottom
of what exactly happened? And additionally, do you think people
will ever take it as seriously or certain segments of
(10:51):
the population will take it as seriously as you believe
they need to.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That depends on the next are in some of my
colleagues in the Republican Party. You know, Liz Cheney has
really stood up and said, we are a democracy. We
may have disagreements, but we are a democracy, and many
of them haven't said that, And I think as leaders,
more and more people need to do that. Everyone knows
what happened that day of the insurrection, and in fact,
(11:20):
that night it was really quite cathartic. While a few
people voted against the results of the electoral college, that
was a very small number. In the Senate, over ninety
percent of them supported the electoral college results, and then
included some very conservative Republicans. That was a moment the
speeches people gave, some of them who had been thinking otherwise,
(11:40):
who had switched their minds and switched their votes after
what they'd seen that day. And I thought, probably naively,
and especially as we got through the inauguration on that
beautiful blue sky and everyone there and every leader or
the Republican Party from Mike Pence to Bush to Quail
except and all of the congressional leadership was there with
(12:03):
the Democrats, except of course Donald Trump. That I thought
that we're going to move on, and that just isn't happening.
When you look at public opinion polls, there's still a
number of people that believe that Donald Trump won the election,
and that is just wrong on every factual basis. Every
local elected official would tell you that every secretary of
(12:25):
state is just wrong, and so you know it is
on us and the Republican Party is going to have
to have their own internal debate. And I think that
is why this investigation, the bipartisan went over in the House. Now,
we did our own in the Senate, which was really
focused on we need a new police chief.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We've gotten a new police chief. We need to have
better security plans. We have those. That's been witnessed by
some recent events. We have to get.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
More resources to the police and to the building, and
we are doing that and have done that. So their
investigation is really the root causes Trump's role. That's why
these subpoenas are going on and the like, And that's
really important.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You can't just dust it, dust it away and throw
it under the rug man.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You have to get to the bottom of it so
that history at some point you're going to have more
and more people believe in the truth. And you don't
do that if you hide the truth.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But do you think we will get to the bottom
of it or do you think this committee but the
House will be constant, constant obstruction.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah? No, I mean they're going to keep trying.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
My favorite lately is that Steve Bannon, who wasn't even
in the White House at the time of the insurrection,
is claiming executive privilege. I guess that means any intern
that ever worked in the White House can claim executive
privilege for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I don't think that's going to work.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So you know, that's the kind of thing the House
Committee is dealing with legally.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Another issue that you've been intimately involved with, of course,
is the Freedom to Vote Act, as a compromise bill.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
To the for the Peace Will Act.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, some have said it's a water down version.
Other people have said it's a necessary compromise without getting
too much in the weed. Senator Klobachar, can you just
talk briefly about a why this had to be done?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Because you know, it's very.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Hard to keep up with all the maginations that are
going on on Capitol Hill, and I think part of
the problem is nobody really explains it simply for people
who aren't just covering it every hour inside the beltwayh
I have a.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Job, I'm about to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So the Freedom to Vote Act ensures that every American
can vote safely regardless of their zip code.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Because right now.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We've got states doing some really bad stuff and making
it hard to vote, limiting vote by mail, limiting mail.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Drop off boxes in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right now they passed a lot that says you have
to put your birth date on the outside of the envelope,
and everyone messes up and puts the day that they're
filing the ballot. These things are evil. They're meant to
make it hard for people to vote. So what we
put in place in this bill is federal standards that
are minimal standards, but they say things like you have
to have early voting, you have to be able to
(15:14):
register the same day of the election, and has some
basic requirements in place. The compromises we made have really
been well received from every editorial board to Stacy Abrams,
Barack Obama are supportive of this bill because it is
really strong and Center Mansion did work with me.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I lead this bill.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Senator Schumer brought us together eight senators including Senaer Warnock
and Padia and many others, and we came together with this.
So it is at its core about the basic standards
which the Constitution allows us to put in place. It
also has a really good prohibition on dark money and
allowing people to find out who's spending the money when
(15:59):
the campaigns aren't spending it. And those are really the
two main provisions, as well as some standards for when
they set up congressional districts. The bad thing is called gerrymandering,
and it has some standards in place for that.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
So we're really proud of the bill.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And now after we have an agreement, Joe Manchin's name
is on this bill, Now we have to figure out
the process and that gets us into these archaic Senate.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Rules about filibustering and the like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And my hope is that we find a way through
that process because state by state there is an effort,
which is a continuation of January sixth, to stop people
from voting. In the words of Reverend Senator Warnock and Georgia,
some people don't want some people to vote, and instead
of changing their candidates or their platforms or their messages,
(16:50):
unfortunately right now there are people in the Republican Party
that said, you know, we don't want to do that,
so we're going to try to change the voters. We're
going to try to stop some of the people that
voted last time and make it harder. Georgie, you can't
vote on weekends during the runoff period. I mean, all
that was done to make it harder to vote.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, there have been a lot of articles, opinion pieces,
observations from Robert Kagan to Bill Maher recently talking about
sort of this systematic erosion of voting rights that is
taking place at the state level, really trying to set
the scene for twenty twenty four to say that the
(17:33):
election is fraudulent, a continuation of what's been called the
Big Lie. How concerned are you about that, Senator Klobachar,
because it's almost like a sleeping giant that people are
just starting to.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
See.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
How can that be stopped? And would this bill actually
do something that would override what's happening state by state
by state.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, that is a great way to refer to it
as a sleeping giant, because it's one of the reasons
I argue for, by the way, abolishing the filibuster or
carving it out for this, because people don't realize sometimes
what's happening here and what happened when Trump was contesting
election results that were by the way, Republican election officials
(18:23):
and the elect they stood up. So this is why
I'm not quite in the doomsday of some of the
people who've addressed this.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
They stood up.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Republican election officials, Secretary of State, stood up for democracy,
local officials, whatever party they were, stood up and did
their jobs. You remember them all counting the next day
and everything. I interviewed Brad.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I interviewed Brad Rathensberger during that period, and you're right,
but aren't many of those people being replaced?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So let me get to that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So in our bill, this Freedom to Vote Act, we
actually have a provision we've adjusted that wasn't even in
the original bill because of what's going on. It says
you can't fire local elected officials in the local county
districts and the like without evidence of malfeasance.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And we put a standard in place.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Again, the Constitution of the United States says that Congress
can make our alter laws regarding federal elections. That's why
we feel so confident that this is going to stand
up in court. So that would get to that. The
other thing they're doing is with the Electoral College, trying
to upend that, and we have a second bill, Center
Warnock does I would get it that.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So there is.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Many things that we need to do, and I really
believe that in the end, the filibuster is stopping us
and it's just this archaic rule, Katie that says you
have to get to like sixty votes to advance anything.
It's been changed many times in the past. And if
we want to move on these really difficult, challenging issues
(19:54):
like climate change or immigration reform, or voting or even
tech rules of the road, I think it's going to
be really hard with that archaic rule still in place.
So I do get back to that, but especially on voting,
I'm hopeful there may be a way to do something
different because it's our very democracy depends on it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But how do you get rid of the filibuster.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We would have to vote on a fifty one vote margin.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
We would all have to do it, and right now
it wouldn't appear that Center Mansion and Cinema will get
rid of it. But they could reform it. You could
look at different ways to reform it. In the past,
reforms have included reducing the number of senators from it
was sixty seven to sixty.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
You could reduce it further.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You could carve out the filibuster for certain things, like.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Say the debt ceiling.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You could require and Center Mansion has indicated a willingness
to support this a standing filibuster. And this is really
an interesting idea, like in the old days, where they
had to actually we speak, it would be a change
of rule that you'd have to get with fifty one votes,
because it wouldn't just you just can't do it. And
then it would require them to actually be there, you know,
(21:10):
so when.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
A bunch of them Cruz read read green Eggs and Ham.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, except that was just a showman thing. They would
actually have to be there. Some people would have to
be there all the time for sudden votes and speaking
and the like, and then you could ramp it down
to a certain number and have an ultimate vote something
like that. But remember the civil rights legislation of the sixties,
you know that was filibustered and in the end it
(21:37):
just went on and on and finally there was an agreement.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And I love this story, and so I'm going to
read it to you.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Do you like green eggs and Ham?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I do not like them, Sam I am.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
I do not like green Eggs and Ham.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I don't know if you saw SNL last week, but
they were sort of making fun of how clueless members
of Congress are because they, just in fairness, don't really
understand technology and social media. My question is I have
two thousand friends on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Is that good?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Is it good? Like?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that a lot? Two thousand sounds like a lot.
How many does Drake have? Four thousand? I think he
has like fifty million.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh my god, Wenda wonder he never answered my pop.
I'm curious if you think we've reached a tipping point
with the whistleblower and kind of the fact that Facebook
is really nefariously failing to take certain measures to stop
(22:46):
all the damaging effects of social media. And there's some
good ones. I think there's some positive things about it too.
But you know, when you look at this problem and
how it impacts so much of our society, what do
you think is the solution?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
How do you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Balance free speech and controlling misinformation that I think is
as President Obama says, is one of the most is
the most serious threat to our democracy exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So let's step back a loaded question to be sure
I'm concerned like you are. I'm sure I am.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I wrote a whole book on and I Trust, and
a lot of the focus was tech. I don't think
they've made fun of me for now knowing what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But I do think I don't think you were in
the skie.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I wasn't and I've been in several skits. I even
have my own person, Rachel Drafts that plays me, so
I'm feeling good about that. But I will say that
one of the methods they use, honestly, is they make
fun of everyone. Tech says, Oh, they don't know what
they're doing, and you know, Sarah and I can make
fun I don't blame them. But the point is is
that I think we know enough to know that something
(23:59):
has to change, and so I start with the solutions.
And I think Francis Hogan, who I got to meet
with for nearly an hour last week, I think she
is a catalyst to change because it's understandable when you
have kids being sent to content and accounts being that
(24:19):
they are seeing with names like eternally starving and I
want to be perfect and these kinds of things, you've
got a problem. So Number One, we need federal privacy laws.
The States is a patchwork. We don't even We're one
of the few countries in the world that doesn't have
a federal privacy law.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Which would really help. Apple just told their.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Users, well you can you have to opt in if
you want your data to be shared.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Seventy five percent of them didn't want it shared.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So let's say instead of opt out, right.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, yes, okay. So the.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Second thing, and that I think an opt in would
be much better. Second thing we need is to improve
our kids online laws. Right now, they only go up
to age thirteen. You know, you could go up to fifteen.
You can expand the productions that would really get at
the Facebook stuff. The third thing my work competitive policy.
(25:15):
I want to let the market work. Well, we're doing
regulations to try to develop some of these bells and whistles,
and we'll never know what Instagram might have done on
their own because Facebook bought them out, because, in the
words of Mark Zuckerberg, he would rather buy than compete.
He literally said in an email, this brand may be nascent,
but it's well established and it could be disruptive to us.
(25:37):
Well it was, he just didn't know how. So the
final thing is, and there's competitive policy, is make it
easier for people to compete with the dominant platforms, you know,
by saying that you can't promote your own products. You
have to treat people fairly on the platforms. It's not
as intuitive, but it really could get at this from
a market based approach, and there's a lot of Republican
(25:59):
interests in it.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
And I put forward a number of bills with more
to come.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Just to clarify something. So you're basically saying, Senator, supporting
many facebooks, supporting companies that do the same thing, and well,
they have a monopoly, right, so they'll develop.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What if you had one where you had to register
the kids so you know exactly who's on there, or
they can't be on there.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Unless they say who they are.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What if you you know, There's all kinds of different
products that could go along, but it is so hard
right now. And this is the long term approach that
isn't just about Facebook. It's really there's too much consolidation
in our country in general. Then the final one, which
is you're getting at, is misinformation and trying to regulate that.
So I was on Dana Basha on Sunday, and I
(26:46):
use the example. I'd just seen the James Bond movie
and I was sitting in there thinking, Okay, if someone
yells fire in this theater, it's not protected speech, right, okay,
But if the theater decided then to put in a
speak in all their multiplexus because they were playing the
James Bond movie in all these different theaters, and they
then broadcast that, no one would think that was okay,
(27:08):
There'd be some kind of a lawsuit, right. Or if
you yelled out vaccine misinformation in one theater, Okay, the
theater's not going to be in trouble for that. But
the theater will be in trouble if they start broadcasting
things everywhere that's wrong. And so that's what's going on here.
I think you have to get at when they amplify things,
when they're making money off of amplifying things, that there
(27:29):
could be some loss of their liability protection. Right now,
they can do whatever they want. I have a bill
with Ben ray Luhan that I put out months ago
that would actually say they lose their immunity when they
put out misinformation on vaccines in the middle of any
public health crisis, because it has been the repercussions have
been astronomical. Over fifty percent of the people that don't
(27:52):
get the vaccine say they read something on social media
that you know, microchip is implanted in their arm. Well,
that concept is a version of what we could be
looking at. And I will know, YouTube just recently announced
that they were banning all accounts misinformation on vaccine, and
(28:14):
Facebook has not taken.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
That step yet.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So it's hard to sort through all this in the
algorithm amplification immunity piece, I will admit is the hardest
part of how you get this right while still protecting
free speech, but it is key to some of the
success of moving on this. You also have other countries
that are being more aggressive than us, because in our country, Congress,
(28:39):
it's just they, you know, the tech companies have been
hiring everyone, people listen to their lobbyists all the time.
It is incredibly frustrating. The really the answer is and
how much money they're making off of us. They're making
off of you KD fifty one bucks Facebook every quarter,
(28:59):
and that's nearly double what the amount is in other
industrialized nations. So that's because they have more protections for
you for your data and you're not as profitable to them,
and so it's really disturbing, and that just shows why
that we haven't put any protections in place.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Are there any countries that you feel are a role
model because they also don't have the First Amendment. Yeah,
we are sometimes honestly problematic because some of the steps
they're taking, say in Germany and other countries, because.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Especially with elections, they're able to just take stuff off immediately. Well,
Europe is doing a lot on competition policy, and I've
worked with Margaret Vestegger, she's the competition person for the
EU extensively. I noticed that the whistleblower is actually going
to speak well with some of those the people in
Europe leading the way.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So at first everyone is making fun of Europe.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And now I think everyone realizes why they were doing
some of the things. So you're right about the First Amendment.
But in competition policy, our anti trust laws haven't been
changed for decades now, and in history they were always changed.
We had the Sherman Act and the Klayton Act. That's
how they broke up Standard Oil. That's how they broke
up at and T Later, over many different political administrations
(30:18):
they worked on that case. And so that means resources
in the agencies, it means smart leaders in charge of them,
which is happening. It means political support on both sides
of the aisle. And there were some during the last administration,
some good people in charge of those divisions that we're
doing some good work, and it really means updating our laws.
(30:38):
So there's a fit Hell, can you have the tech industry,
twenty percent of our economy now come in and we
make not one change to our competition policy or privacy laws.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
That is our status right now.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
So I think we have to admit that people have
been listening to these lobbies. It's too hard. You got
the filibuster hanging out there, which is not as big
a problem here, but it's more giving into the tech industry.
And I don't wish them harm. They employ many people,
They've given us great things. I'm wearing a fitbit right now.
I got my iPhone right here. I'm not some ledeite,
(31:11):
but I believe in capitalism. And if you believe in capitalism,
you don't want to destroy these companies. You just want
to make sure that there's competitors in place. And this
is not just Facebook. And that's one of the things
I'm concerned about, because it really is we have to
look at the tech industry as a whole.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Hey, would you ever consider running for president again in
twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I love my job, Katie. I love it, and now
I've got so much to do.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I'm going off to do a prescription drug event in Minnesota,
and i have really a major leadership role in the
Senate right now.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
That's what I'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you again to my special guest, Senator Amy Klobachar.
She's so smart and with it. I really like talking
to her. For more information about breast cancer or any
cancer screening, you can go to cancer dot gov and
you can also check out the Stand Up to Cancer website.
And if you want more of the nitty gritty of
(32:08):
my on air kolonoscopy as well as my cancer advocacy work,
you can read all about it in my new memoir
Going There, which is at October twenty six, so pre
order people. Next Question with Katie Kirk is a production
(32:30):
of iHeartMedia and Katie Kirk Media. The executive producers are Me,
Katie Kirk, and Courtney Ltz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hanson.
Associate producers Derek Clements, Adriana Fazzio, and Emily Pinto. The
show is edited and mixed by Derek Clements. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
(32:51):
morning newsletter, Wake Upcall, go to Katiecuric dot com. You
can also find me at Katiekiric on Instagram and all
my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Hi, it's Katie. Welcome to Wellness. Check our series of
some of our favorite Next Question episodes focused on women's
health and wellness. Enjoy. Hey everybody, I'm Kittie Kuric and
this is Next Question. So I've written this memoir. It's
out in just a few weeks, and as you might imagine,
(00:22):
the process has really forced me to put my life
in perspective. What I've realized is that when I look
back at all of it, there's one moment that stands
out as the thing I'm most proud of, and that
is I have a pretty little colon. That's right showing
the inside of my colon on morning television. But you
(00:44):
have put the scope in yet?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, we're really.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, Okay, good correct sign.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We're doing it. We're almost done. You're going to feel
at Pramler and.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
How there is a lot I've done in the fight
against colorectal cancer, the number two cancer killer of men
and women combined. I've raised hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Yam established the monahand Center, a comprehensive gastro intestinal cancer
center at New York Presbyterian Hospital where my husband Jay
was treated, and co founded stand up to cancer. But
(01:18):
when I filmed my first kolonoscoby and aired it on
the Today Show, that up close and personal view of
my insides had an almost immediate impact. It prompted a
lot of people to call their doctors and get screened.
In fact, there was actually a study done on it.
The University of Michigan found a twenty percent increase in
(01:38):
colonoscopies as a result of my segment. They actually called it, yes,
the current effect.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
It's sharing the news, it's sharing the information so it
doesn't happen to other people and they catch it.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Senator Amy Klovichar knows when I'm talking about. In early September,
the Minnesota Democrat revealed that back in February, she was
diagnosed with stage one breast cancer. She had a lumpectomy
to remove the cancer and then radiation. By August, her
doctor said her treatment had gone well. But now she's
on a mission to share her story and how it
(02:15):
could have easily gone another way.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It's been so just amazing to hear all the stories
that people have written me. They called, I'm sure you
had this when you went on the show and you
did the colonoscopy and you made very clear that everyone
should do this. You shocked people into thinking differently about it,
and so the stories of people getting their exams going
(02:39):
in has been incredibly.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Rewarding, made it all worth it.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And I'm wearing pink today to remind everyone Breast Cancer Month,
go in, get your screening.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Breast cancer is the most common form of cancer among women.
In fact, every year more than two hundred and fifty
thousand women are diagnosed in the US, and like so
many cancers, holy detection can be life saving. But with
the pandemic, there's been an alarming drop in breast cancer
screenings down eighty seven percent. That's right, eighty seven percent
(03:12):
compared to pre pandemic numbers. For Senator Klobachar, that statistic
isn't all that surprising.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Like so many women, Katie, I put it off. I
put it off through the pandemic, and at first that
made sense, right because they didn't have there were a
lot of routine things weren't going on. But after a
while there was really no excuse except that I kind
of just put it off. And then when I went
in and got this routine mammogram is when I found
(03:41):
out that I had stage one a breast cancer. And
I got that call, and you know, from your own
life and you've been such a tremendous warrior to let
people know how important screenings are after losing your husband
and the whole story, it was unbelievable. And by the way,
I thought about that a few times as this was
going on. I then got that call and they said,
(04:04):
you know those white spots that we saw, it's actually cancer.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And then I immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Started talking to different doctors, made a plan, got a
lump tectomy a few months later, got the radiation two
days after my dad died because of the Senate schedule.
It was so hard to figure this all out, but
I got the treatment in a timely manner, which was
really good.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
But the exam I put off.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And that's when I found out that, you know, one
out of three women are one out of three people
put off exams, routine exams during the pandemic, still putting
them off, And a whole bunch of women are walking
around right now with undetected breast cancer, which is really scary.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And so I've tried to.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Using you as a model, Katie, I've tried to really
talk about this in that way to remind nine people
how you can save lives just by finding things out early.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I was on the cusp.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I mean, I found it out, but I should have
gone in a year earlier.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's so true, Senator Clovich are and such an important
message because so many people will lose their battles because
they did weren't the beneficiaries of early detection. And that
is such a critically important message to get out. The
earlier things are found, the easier they are to treat.
(05:31):
I mean, it's really as simple as that.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
They say, my chances of getting it again are just
like the general population. I think that's the miraculous nature
of the treatments right now. One they can tailor them
depending on what stage it is and if you need
chemo or mas sectomy and the like. And I bet
the earlier they catch it, the better you are, as
you just said, And so I feel really good about
(05:55):
the diagnosis. But a few things during that time that
I realized. One, I was so grateful to my family,
so much gratitude because I actually decided I wasn't going
to disclose everything at that moment because my dad was
dying and I wanted a lot of the focus on him.
We had the investigation of the insurrection at the Capitol
(06:15):
and I was in charge.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Of that with three other senators.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I was in charge of the hearings on the election bill,
and there was just a lot going on and I.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Didn't want it to be about that about me.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
At that moment, I knew I was going to make
a public and so I waited till the end of
the summer and did it then.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
And that worked out for me. But when people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Public officials are not when it starts to be a
situation where they can't go to work, of course they're
going to explain it.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
But I was able to work it around that and
not do it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But so even more so, I was so grateful to
my family because they were like my husband getting up
at four am to take me to radiation days in
a row. The of course, the doctors and versus the
perfect strangers who didn't know that I had a lump
tech to me and I wasn't supposed to lift my
(07:05):
luggage up.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
When I flew back.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And forth between Minnesota, DC, I just stand there looking
for Lauren and they'd be like, can I help you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
And so you know, there were a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Nice things and moments I remember of people helping me out,
even when they didn't know they were doing it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
But you know, thinking about what was happening in your life,
your sweet dad dying. Jim Klobuchar, of course, a newspaper columnist,
and I know you all were very, very close. It
sounds like you have the kind of relationship with your
dad that I had with my dad, which I write
a lot about. But you know, I think about all
(07:44):
these stressors going on at once, and honestly, my heart
is racing a little bit just thinking about how you
were able to manage everything coming at you at once.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
How were you able to manage all that well.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I always remember John McCain's last words to me, or
the last thing he pointed to. I visited him at
his ranch when he was dying and with Cindy, my husband,
and he couldn't really talk very much, and he pointed
to a word from his last book of phrase where
he said, there's nothing more liberating than fighting for a
cause larger than yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
And for me, the work that I was.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Doing at that moment, the combination of that investigation, which
was focused on the security at the Capitol, now there's
a bigger one going on of course about the root
causes and everything that happened, which needs to be investigated
over in the House. But that and then that election
bill going on at the same time that we had
(08:40):
to get through the committee. We had to get agreement
with Center Mansion, which we did over the summer. Now
we have the process in front of us. But that
was a cause larger than anything happening to me.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
So that was a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And then, as you said, my dad, he had this
incredible life. He did everything from you ride his bicycle
around Lake Superior, too, covering the Mafia funeral in Italy,
to writing twenty three books to climbing the second highest
(09:14):
mountain in Peru. I mean, he just had this incredible
life and he had Alzheimer's, so it was this long
goodbye and being there was important with someone with Alzheimer's,
which we couldn't do the year because of pandemic, but
being there at the end was important because you don't
always know when someone with Alzheimer's is going to start
(09:35):
talking again or remember certain things, which he often did sporadically.
And the funniest part of some of the women who
worked at the assisted living who loved him so much.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
They were I think Liberian, and they were.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Learning English, and they had a dictionary next to his
bed because he kept using so many new words for
them and long words as they would look them up
up and learn them.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So it was kind of cool. Leaves teaching to the end.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
When we come back, I get curious about Capitol Hill,
big Tech, the January sixth insurrection, and yes, even the
twenty twenty four election. More with Senator Amy klovichark right
after this. I'd love to ask you about a couple
(10:28):
of the things you mentioned, because obviously I'm watching this
investigation into January sixth unfold people refusing to testify. Do
you think we're ever going to get to the bottom
of what exactly happened? And additionally, do you think people
will ever take it as seriously or certain segments of
(10:51):
the population will take it as seriously as you believe
they need to.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
That depends on the next are in some of my
colleagues in the Republican Party. You know, Liz Cheney has
really stood up and said, we are a democracy. We
may have disagreements, but we are a democracy, and many
of them haven't said that, And I think as leaders,
more and more people need to do that. Everyone knows
what happened that day of the insurrection, and in fact,
(11:20):
that night it was really quite cathartic. While a few
people voted against the results of the electoral college, that
was a very small number. In the Senate, over ninety
percent of them supported the electoral college results, and then
included some very conservative Republicans. That was a moment the
speeches people gave, some of them who had been thinking otherwise,
(11:40):
who had switched their minds and switched their votes after
what they'd seen that day. And I thought, probably naively,
and especially as we got through the inauguration on that
beautiful blue sky and everyone there and every leader or
the Republican Party from Mike Pence to Bush to Quail
except and all of the congressional leadership was there with
(12:03):
the Democrats, except of course Donald Trump. That I thought
that we're going to move on, and that just isn't happening.
When you look at public opinion polls, there's still a
number of people that believe that Donald Trump won the election,
and that is just wrong on every factual basis. Every
local elected official would tell you that every secretary of
(12:25):
state is just wrong, and so you know it is
on us and the Republican Party is going to have
to have their own internal debate. And I think that
is why this investigation, the bipartisan went over in the House. Now,
we did our own in the Senate, which was really
focused on we need a new police chief.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
We've gotten a new police chief. We need to have
better security plans. We have those. That's been witnessed by
some recent events. We have to get.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
More resources to the police and to the building, and
we are doing that and have done that. So their
investigation is really the root causes Trump's role. That's why
these subpoenas are going on and the like, And that's
really important.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You can't just dust it, dust it away and throw
it under the rug man.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You have to get to the bottom of it so
that history at some point you're going to have more
and more people believe in the truth. And you don't
do that if you hide the truth.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
But do you think we will get to the bottom
of it or do you think this committee but the
House will be constant, constant obstruction.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah? No, I mean they're going to keep trying.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
My favorite lately is that Steve Bannon, who wasn't even
in the White House at the time of the insurrection,
is claiming executive privilege. I guess that means any intern
that ever worked in the White House can claim executive
privilege for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I don't think that's going to work.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So you know, that's the kind of thing the House
Committee is dealing with legally.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Another issue that you've been intimately involved with, of course,
is the Freedom to Vote Act, as a compromise bill.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
To the for the Peace Will Act.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, some have said it's a water down version.
Other people have said it's a necessary compromise without getting
too much in the weed. Senator Klobachar, can you just
talk briefly about a why this had to be done?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Because you know, it's very.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Hard to keep up with all the maginations that are
going on on Capitol Hill, and I think part of
the problem is nobody really explains it simply for people
who aren't just covering it every hour inside the beltwayh
I have a.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Job, I'm about to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So the Freedom to Vote Act ensures that every American
can vote safely regardless of their zip code.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Because right now.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
We've got states doing some really bad stuff and making
it hard to vote, limiting vote by mail, limiting mail.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Drop off boxes in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right now they passed a lot that says you have
to put your birth date on the outside of the envelope,
and everyone messes up and puts the day that they're
filing the ballot. These things are evil. They're meant to
make it hard for people to vote. So what we
put in place in this bill is federal standards that
are minimal standards, but they say things like you have
to have early voting, you have to be able to
(15:14):
register the same day of the election, and has some
basic requirements in place. The compromises we made have really
been well received from every editorial board to Stacy Abrams,
Barack Obama are supportive of this bill because it is
really strong and Center Mansion did work with me.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I lead this bill.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Senator Schumer brought us together eight senators including Senaer Warnock
and Padia and many others, and we came together with this.
So it is at its core about the basic standards
which the Constitution allows us to put in place. It
also has a really good prohibition on dark money and
allowing people to find out who's spending the money when
(15:59):
the campaigns aren't spending it. And those are really the
two main provisions, as well as some standards for when
they set up congressional districts. The bad thing is called gerrymandering,
and it has some standards in place for that.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
So we're really proud of the bill.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And now after we have an agreement, Joe Manchin's name
is on this bill, Now we have to figure out
the process and that gets us into these archaic Senate.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Rules about filibustering and the like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And my hope is that we find a way through
that process because state by state there is an effort,
which is a continuation of January sixth, to stop people
from voting. In the words of Reverend Senator Warnock and Georgia,
some people don't want some people to vote, and instead
of changing their candidates or their platforms or their messages,
(16:50):
unfortunately right now there are people in the Republican Party
that said, you know, we don't want to do that,
so we're going to try to change the voters. We're
going to try to stop some of the people that
voted last time and make it harder. Georgie, you can't
vote on weekends during the runoff period. I mean, all
that was done to make it harder to vote.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
You know, there have been a lot of articles, opinion pieces,
observations from Robert Kagan to Bill Maher recently talking about
sort of this systematic erosion of voting rights that is
taking place at the state level, really trying to set
the scene for twenty twenty four to say that the
(17:33):
election is fraudulent, a continuation of what's been called the
Big Lie. How concerned are you about that, Senator Klobachar,
because it's almost like a sleeping giant that people are
just starting to.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
See.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
How can that be stopped? And would this bill actually
do something that would override what's happening state by state
by state.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, that is a great way to refer to it
as a sleeping giant, because it's one of the reasons
I argue for, by the way, abolishing the filibuster or
carving it out for this, because people don't realize sometimes
what's happening here and what happened when Trump was contesting
election results that were by the way, Republican election officials
(18:23):
and the elect they stood up. So this is why
I'm not quite in the doomsday of some of the
people who've addressed this.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
They stood up.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Republican election officials, Secretary of State, stood up for democracy,
local officials, whatever party they were, stood up and did
their jobs. You remember them all counting the next day
and everything. I interviewed Brad.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I interviewed Brad Rathensberger during that period, and you're right,
but aren't many of those people being replaced?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
So let me get to that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So in our bill, this Freedom to Vote Act, we
actually have a provision we've adjusted that wasn't even in
the original bill because of what's going on. It says
you can't fire local elected officials in the local county
districts and the like without evidence of malfeasance.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And we put a standard in place.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Again, the Constitution of the United States says that Congress
can make our alter laws regarding federal elections. That's why
we feel so confident that this is going to stand
up in court. So that would get to that. The
other thing they're doing is with the Electoral College, trying
to upend that, and we have a second bill, Center
Warnock does I would get it that.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
So there is.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Many things that we need to do, and I really
believe that in the end, the filibuster is stopping us
and it's just this archaic rule, Katie that says you
have to get to like sixty votes to advance anything.
It's been changed many times in the past. And if
we want to move on these really difficult, challenging issues
(19:54):
like climate change or immigration reform, or voting or even
tech rules of the road, I think it's going to
be really hard with that archaic rule still in place.
So I do get back to that, but especially on voting,
I'm hopeful there may be a way to do something
different because it's our very democracy depends on it.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
But how do you get rid of the filibuster.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We would have to vote on a fifty one vote margin.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
We would all have to do it, and right now
it wouldn't appear that Center Mansion and Cinema will get
rid of it. But they could reform it. You could
look at different ways to reform it. In the past,
reforms have included reducing the number of senators from it
was sixty seven to sixty.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
You could reduce it further.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You could carve out the filibuster for certain things, like.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Say the debt ceiling.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
You could require and Center Mansion has indicated a willingness
to support this a standing filibuster. And this is really
an interesting idea, like in the old days, where they
had to actually we speak, it would be a change
of rule that you'd have to get with fifty one votes,
because it wouldn't just you just can't do it. And
then it would require them to actually be there, you know,
(21:10):
so when.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
A bunch of them Cruz read read green Eggs and Ham.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, except that was just a showman thing. They would
actually have to be there. Some people would have to
be there all the time for sudden votes and speaking
and the like, and then you could ramp it down
to a certain number and have an ultimate vote something
like that. But remember the civil rights legislation of the sixties,
you know that was filibustered and in the end it
(21:37):
just went on and on and finally there was an agreement.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
And I love this story, and so I'm going to
read it to you.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Do you like green eggs and Ham?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I do not like them, Sam I am.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
I do not like green Eggs and Ham.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I don't know if you saw SNL last week, but
they were sort of making fun of how clueless members
of Congress are because they, just in fairness, don't really
understand technology and social media. My question is I have
two thousand friends on Facebook?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Is that good?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Is it good? Like?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Is that a lot? Two thousand sounds like a lot.
How many does Drake have? Four thousand? I think he
has like fifty million.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh my god, Wenda wonder he never answered my pop.
I'm curious if you think we've reached a tipping point
with the whistleblower and kind of the fact that Facebook
is really nefariously failing to take certain measures to stop
(22:46):
all the damaging effects of social media. And there's some
good ones. I think there's some positive things about it too.
But you know, when you look at this problem and
how it impacts so much of our society, what do
you think is the solution?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
How do you.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Balance free speech and controlling misinformation that I think is
as President Obama says, is one of the most is
the most serious threat to our democracy exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So let's step back a loaded question to be sure
I'm concerned like you are. I'm sure I am.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I wrote a whole book on and I Trust, and
a lot of the focus was tech. I don't think
they've made fun of me for now knowing what I'm
talking about.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But I do think I don't think you were in
the skie.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I wasn't and I've been in several skits. I even
have my own person, Rachel Drafts that plays me, so
I'm feeling good about that. But I will say that
one of the methods they use, honestly, is they make
fun of everyone. Tech says, Oh, they don't know what
they're doing, and you know, Sarah and I can make
fun I don't blame them. But the point is is
that I think we know enough to know that something
(23:59):
has to change, and so I start with the solutions.
And I think Francis Hogan, who I got to meet
with for nearly an hour last week, I think she
is a catalyst to change because it's understandable when you
have kids being sent to content and accounts being that
(24:19):
they are seeing with names like eternally starving and I
want to be perfect and these kinds of things, you've
got a problem. So Number One, we need federal privacy laws.
The States is a patchwork. We don't even We're one
of the few countries in the world that doesn't have
a federal privacy law.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Which would really help. Apple just told their.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Users, well you can you have to opt in if
you want your data to be shared.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Seventy five percent of them didn't want it shared.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
So let's say instead of opt out, right.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, yes, okay. So the.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Second thing, and that I think an opt in would
be much better. Second thing we need is to improve
our kids online laws. Right now, they only go up
to age thirteen. You know, you could go up to fifteen.
You can expand the productions that would really get at
the Facebook stuff. The third thing my work competitive policy.
(25:15):
I want to let the market work. Well, we're doing
regulations to try to develop some of these bells and whistles,
and we'll never know what Instagram might have done on
their own because Facebook bought them out, because, in the
words of Mark Zuckerberg, he would rather buy than compete.
He literally said in an email, this brand may be nascent,
but it's well established and it could be disruptive to us.
(25:37):
Well it was, he just didn't know how. So the
final thing is, and there's competitive policy, is make it
easier for people to compete with the dominant platforms, you know,
by saying that you can't promote your own products. You
have to treat people fairly on the platforms. It's not
as intuitive, but it really could get at this from
a market based approach, and there's a lot of Republican
(25:59):
interests in it.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
And I put forward a number of bills with more
to come.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Just to clarify something. So you're basically saying, Senator, supporting
many facebooks, supporting companies that do the same thing, and well,
they have a monopoly, right, so they'll develop.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What if you had one where you had to register
the kids so you know exactly who's on there, or
they can't be on there.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Unless they say who they are.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What if you you know, There's all kinds of different
products that could go along, but it is so hard
right now. And this is the long term approach that
isn't just about Facebook. It's really there's too much consolidation
in our country in general. Then the final one, which
is you're getting at, is misinformation and trying to regulate that.
So I was on Dana Basha on Sunday, and I
(26:46):
use the example. I'd just seen the James Bond movie
and I was sitting in there thinking, Okay, if someone
yells fire in this theater, it's not protected speech, right, okay,
But if the theater decided then to put in a
speak in all their multiplexus because they were playing the
James Bond movie in all these different theaters, and they
then broadcast that, no one would think that was okay,
(27:08):
There'd be some kind of a lawsuit, right. Or if
you yelled out vaccine misinformation in one theater, Okay, the
theater's not going to be in trouble for that. But
the theater will be in trouble if they start broadcasting
things everywhere that's wrong. And so that's what's going on here.
I think you have to get at when they amplify things,
when they're making money off of amplifying things, that there
(27:29):
could be some loss of their liability protection. Right now,
they can do whatever they want. I have a bill
with Ben ray Luhan that I put out months ago
that would actually say they lose their immunity when they
put out misinformation on vaccines in the middle of any
public health crisis, because it has been the repercussions have
been astronomical. Over fifty percent of the people that don't
(27:52):
get the vaccine say they read something on social media
that you know, microchip is implanted in their arm. Well,
that concept is a version of what we could be
looking at. And I will know, YouTube just recently announced
that they were banning all accounts misinformation on vaccine, and
(28:14):
Facebook has not taken.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
That step yet.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So it's hard to sort through all this in the
algorithm amplification immunity piece, I will admit is the hardest
part of how you get this right while still protecting
free speech, but it is key to some of the
success of moving on this. You also have other countries
that are being more aggressive than us, because in our country, Congress,
(28:39):
it's just they, you know, the tech companies have been
hiring everyone, people listen to their lobbyists all the time.
It is incredibly frustrating. The really the answer is and
how much money they're making off of us. They're making
off of you KD fifty one bucks Facebook every quarter,
(28:59):
and that's nearly double what the amount is in other
industrialized nations. So that's because they have more protections for
you for your data and you're not as profitable to them,
and so it's really disturbing, and that just shows why
that we haven't put any protections in place.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Are there any countries that you feel are a role
model because they also don't have the First Amendment. Yeah,
we are sometimes honestly problematic because some of the steps
they're taking, say in Germany and other countries, because.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Especially with elections, they're able to just take stuff off immediately. Well,
Europe is doing a lot on competition policy, and I've
worked with Margaret Vestegger, she's the competition person for the
EU extensively. I noticed that the whistleblower is actually going
to speak well with some of those the people in
Europe leading the way.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So at first everyone is making fun of Europe.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And now I think everyone realizes why they were doing
some of the things. So you're right about the First Amendment.
But in competition policy, our anti trust laws haven't been
changed for decades now, and in history they were always changed.
We had the Sherman Act and the Klayton Act. That's
how they broke up Standard Oil. That's how they broke
up at and T Later, over many different political administrations
(30:18):
they worked on that case. And so that means resources
in the agencies, it means smart leaders in charge of them,
which is happening. It means political support on both sides
of the aisle. And there were some during the last administration,
some good people in charge of those divisions that we're
doing some good work, and it really means updating our laws.
(30:38):
So there's a fit Hell, can you have the tech industry,
twenty percent of our economy now come in and we
make not one change to our competition policy or privacy laws.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
That is our status right now.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
So I think we have to admit that people have
been listening to these lobbies. It's too hard. You got
the filibuster hanging out there, which is not as big
a problem here, but it's more giving into the tech industry.
And I don't wish them harm. They employ many people,
They've given us great things. I'm wearing a fitbit right now.
I got my iPhone right here. I'm not some ledeite,
(31:11):
but I believe in capitalism. And if you believe in capitalism,
you don't want to destroy these companies. You just want
to make sure that there's competitors in place. And this
is not just Facebook. And that's one of the things
I'm concerned about, because it really is we have to
look at the tech industry as a whole.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Hey, would you ever consider running for president again in
twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I love my job, Katie. I love it, and now
I've got so much to do.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I'm going off to do a prescription drug event in Minnesota,
and i have really a major leadership role in the
Senate right now.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
That's what I'm focused on.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you again to my special guest, Senator Amy Klobachar.
She's so smart and with it. I really like talking
to her. For more information about breast cancer or any
cancer screening, you can go to cancer dot gov and
you can also check out the Stand Up to Cancer website.
And if you want more of the nitty gritty of
(32:08):
my on air kolonoscopy as well as my cancer advocacy work,
you can read all about it in my new memoir
Going There, which is at October twenty six, so pre
order people. Next Question with Katie Kirk is a production
(32:30):
of iHeartMedia and Katie Kirk Media. The executive producers are Me,
Katie Kirk, and Courtney Ltz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hanson.
Associate producers Derek Clements, Adriana Fazzio, and Emily Pinto. The
show is edited and mixed by Derek Clements. For more
information about today's episode, or to sign up for my
(32:51):
morning newsletter, Wake Upcall, go to Katiecuric dot com. You
can also find me at Katiekiric on Instagram and all
my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Host
Katie Couric
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