118: 364 1/2 Days (with Hannah Giorgis)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's eleven thirty eight pm at a Sicilian castle and
you're listening to Nightcall. Hello, and welcome to Nightcall, a
college show about our dystopian reality. My name is Emily Yoshida.

(00:23):
I am in Los Angeles and with me on the
other line are Molly Lambert and Tess Lynch. Hi, guys, Hey, y'all.
We are going to be joined later in the show
by Hannah. George is from the Atlantic to talk about
the Polish sex drama that is taking the Internet by
storm through it in sixty five days. But first let's

(00:44):
take a night email test. You want to read it.
I would love to hello Nightcall. As I prefer to
remain anonymous, I won't reveal my name or the venue
where I work, but I can say that the measures
taken to protect the staff are next to non existent,
so distancing is not enforced, and one of my managers
were as an N ninety five mask against company policy No. Less,

(01:06):
which facilitates his breathing, but as you can surmise, does
nothing to prevent a potential asymptomatic spread of the novel coronavirus.
While everyone is required to wear face masks and wash
their hands, the only social distancing is between guests. As
we were returning, one of the higher ups had tried
to convince us, rather poorly that any leaked candid images,
which was achieved through a certain vantage point where people

(01:28):
looked clustered. But we're standing far apart working here. I
can honestly say the space situation is like sardines in
a can. I don't begrudge working hard for a living,
but I find myself disgusted with how little care is
being provided for the staff. And and we should say,
like this person, um. We won't say where they work specifically,
but it is like it's a theme park, it's an attraction,

(01:49):
which you know. Obviously a lot of them are back
up and running. I think probably a lot of them
never closed in the first place. I believe they they
all did close because they had you UM And this
is the first time, just because I follow a bunch
of theme park enthusiasts Instagram's um and there's like a
real schism because there are some people that are like

(02:12):
traveling to theme parks. UM and the workers have been
posting about a lot, but they're also afraid of retaliation
from the companies they work for, which is why we're
not going to name any companies that anybody works for.
If you call in and tell us about your experience,
we will keep you totally anonymous. But we would love
to hear more from people that are going back to

(02:33):
work under COVID and uh seeing the sort of chaotic situation,
because it doesn't seem like anybody has a plan that
is going to work, like the right and all the
safeguards feel completely um, patchwork and not at all cohesive.
I mean even in Japan they reopened a theme parks.

(02:55):
This is like a big thing that was going around
Twitter today that I sent to you guys, and um,
they were asking guests to refrain from screaming on rights
because you know, screaming exerting your vocal cords creates more droplets,
uh and spreads the disease war and I believe their
their their advice to guess was please scream inside your heart,

(03:16):
which is um, yeah, note taken the slogan of the year,
already doing it. But yeah, so it's just like stuff
like that, like at a certain points, like well, why
go on a ride that like screaming on a ride
is more or less involuntary. It's like laughing at a
funny joke. Um so why put yourself in a position

(03:38):
where there's a high likelihood that you would be screaming
like why do all this these gymnastics to be like,
oh no, you can do it as long as you
don't have the most reasonable reaction to the thing you're doing.
They're all doing insane backbends to try and you know,
have a reason to be reopening to make money. It's

(03:58):
all like Joe else said last week, it's all Jaws,
it's all Drassic Park. Um. And they must think the
profit margins are worth it, you know, they must think
the bad press isn't gonna overwhelm the influx of cash.
And as we saw a lot of these big companies
also got bailed out. So it's all pretty gross. Do

(04:19):
you guys see twenty one pilots got PPP loans like
like I guess as a band the stewary and money.
Um so I haven't gotten anything yet, but if twenty
one pilots can do it, I don't think we've talked
about it on the show yet, but just to have

(04:40):
a mini sports uh sports call nightball segment the NBA
reopening that they're trying to do um around Disney World
seems like extremely fraught and like everything is already going
wrong and they're still going forward with it because that's

(05:01):
how badly they don't want to lose profits on sports capitalism.
And it's it's just wild to see all these companies
and industries pouring all this money. I mean the bubble,
the NBA bubble, you know, as jankie as it looks
and as unwise as it looks from here, it can't
be cheap. Like that's a very a lot of logistics

(05:22):
in that. And you see these industries pouring so much
money into this stuff. And like meanwhile here in l A,
our biggest COVID testing site was shut down, uh for
a holiday and also possibly I was seeing some some
reports that like it would just had to like figure
out its funding, and that's not something that people are

(05:44):
like Sean Penn apparently was behind the funding for our
COVID testing site, Like that was not Yeah, like truly
when you have when you are relying on the goodness
of Sean Penn's heart, the bars on the ground. Yeah,
So it's just like and and and and you know,
the COVID testing sites are kind of like dystopian in

(06:04):
and of themselves. Like I don't know if you guys
have gone there and not to the Dodger Stadium one,
but like all this stuff that people set up as
sort of these stop gaps is all a little bit dystopian.
But that at least is like, you know, potentially for
good and for prevention of the virus. Like I just
feel like it's like there's no real escapism. So anyone

(06:25):
claiming they're going to create a space where you'll be
like totally safe from the virus and it doesn't exist
there selling you a fantasy like Las Vegas just reopened
as well in Sanity City. I saw some pictures of
Atlantic City. All the um the slot machines have individual barriers,
plastic barriers around them like little sweatboxes. Yeah, it's all

(06:48):
just so sounds fun. Yeah, it's it's also patchwork. Like
you said, it's like clearly nobody in charge has a plan,
which is something we've been seeing for a lot of things. Well,
I took um my son to the doctor yesterday and
it was the first time he had been inside a
building since March. That was not our He was super

(07:12):
anxious about it. Uh, he wore a mask the entire time.
It ended up I think being the right decision, even
though it was just to check up the kids. His
age only get checked up once a year, so I
felt like it was important. But we were driving on
like these huge lines to get into a snow cone
store and also a vintage store. Yeah, and I was

(07:34):
just like, wow, I'm like keeping my kids to the doctor.
We're sweating, we're so nervous about this. And meanwhile there's
like just maybe thirty five people lined up on Melrose,
not distanced at all, waiting to get a snow cone.
It's very strange. I mean, as long as they weren't
going into a snow cone store, I guess I think

(07:55):
I think they were, But I think with a vintage store,
it's just that they have to wear a covering in
their can't pill in there. But it just shows you,
like when the priorities and I'm not faulting any small
business owner at all, like I I think it's the
problem is is much higher up the chain than what
an individual store owner is doing. Right. They should have
paid They should have paid everyone to stay home from

(08:18):
the beginning. They paid everyone to stay home, and they
should still be doing that, we should still be under
like the first lockdown, but they like open back up,
and immediately everything got real bad. One thing that nobody
knows for sure if it's going to open back up

(08:38):
is schools school. Let's take a break, and when we
come back, Emily will enchant and amaze us with details
of dark academia. Welcome back tonight call today. Emily is

(09:07):
the professor and we are all her students, and her
specialty is something called dark academia. Well, academia has gone dark, uh,
you know, obviously in the last several months, but now
it's going figuratively dark on TikTok and Instagram. I want

(09:28):
to reiterate, and I think this might come up later
when we're talking to Hannah. But like, I don't know
a single thing about what's going on with TikTok. I
don't have a TikTok account, So this is not firsthand knowledge.
This is not something I've observed. I read a New
York Times trend piece about it. I'm an old person. Uh,
but they're also if you want us to do a

(09:48):
night called dark Academia TikTok, you know, let us know. Sure,
I don't. I would not know how to go about that.
But there's this article by Christin Bateman called Academia Lives
on TikTok and it is about the recent uh TikTok
and Instagram and and I think it also kind of
started on Tumbler aesthetic project what what whatever you want

(10:13):
to call it, U called dark academia, which has taken
on some you know, particularly interesting meaning right now as
most of the teens and early twenty someomethings that are
participating in this trend are not in actual school and
don't know when they will be back in actual school. Um.

(10:36):
But the article, uh, the article kind of describes what,
you know, what the vibe is, and it's very you know,
it's it has images to which you can instantly kind
of get the vibe from the images. But um, Kristen
Babman writes, a typical post may involve teens showing off
There are gyle sweaters to classical tunes, followed by a
series of photos of leather bound books, handwritten notes, a

(10:56):
page from Weathering Heights, and a shot of a class
and a shot of class Greek architecture. It's not unusual
to see fans dressing up as their favorite book characters
are posting vintage photos of the novelist Donna Tart, author
of the Secret History Dark Academias Essential text Um. She
also kind of pitches it as an alternative to cottage core,
which I can't remember if we have talked about specifically

(11:17):
on this podcast, but we didn't end up talking about
cottage core. The cottage core is big right now. Can
you describe what cottage core is a little bit and
why it's like possibly problematic? Um, cottage core. The reason
cottage core is possibly problematic is it's like being into

(11:38):
home studding kind of. It's like a little house on
the prairie kind of you know, rustic pioneer ship. Um,
but you're like wearing cute sweaters and stuff. And is
it more pioneer or is it more I kind of
understood it. It It was almost like a like I was thinking, like, oh,
is Miyazaki cottage core because Miyazaki is super into like you.

(12:00):
It's a type of like a girl that's like into yeah,
kind of like a European forest uhal fairytale, more apesthetic,
maybe mixed in with some Japanese pop culture. I learned
about it recently because I learned about I was just

(12:22):
reading about the girls and going down a hole about
cottage core. But there was a thread recently where somebody
was like, watch watch out for the next wave of
like e girl fascists that are all really into cottage core.
And somebody was like the sentences inscrutable, and I was like,
I know what they're talking about, which is just any
kind of like back to the Homeland movement, even a

(12:45):
virtual one can definitely veer into like nationalism at a
certain point. But couldn't it also just be people who
like don't can't buy groceries in and now like I
should grow my own food. It could be totally benign.
I guess they're like a reaction against what we think
of as being the most like mainstream Instagram social media aesthetic.

(13:07):
Like right, it's like an aesthetic that wouldn't have social media,
but then you're using social media to film it. Um.
I learned about it because I was reading about Belle Delphine,
who is a gamer who sold her bath water and
then recently reappeared on the internet with an only fans

(13:30):
and like YouTube video. I just like learned a lot
about what's going on on the internet now. And she
had it was like she's now like now she hasn't
only fans and she does like sexy photo shoots, but
she started as sort of just a cause player and
her thing was totally cottage core. Um, not in a
fascist way, just in like sort of a Miyazaki way

(13:52):
like you were saying. It was like her she does
a tour of her room and she has all these
like dollhouses stacked up dollhouses and like some sort of
like leaves hung from the ceiling and stuff. Uh. I think, well,
you know, we watched Shirley Last Planning. Yeah. To me,

(14:13):
it just makes me think of like when you're a
teenage girl and you're like, I'm going to make my
room so cool and like beautiful and I'll want to
hang out and all the time. And maybe you don't
actually end up doing that, but you're like, what if
I could just decorate my room like exactly drawing your
plans for your dream room. It's a very big activity
of being like a tween. I feel like, um, yeah,

(14:35):
well so so like okay, so if cottage core is that,
which is like kind of it feels from from what
I've seen from your description of it feels a little um,
like goop adjacent again. I feel like it's all kind
of like training for planning your wedding. Like it's like
that kind of um right, it's like party planning for
your house. Yeah, like like at a at some foliage. Uh,

(15:00):
you know, run through some flowers in a mock Malick
type shot or whatever. Right, because it's still like a
lot of things. It's about like accumulating things, like getting
new things to be part of your aesthetic. Yeah. So
so in this article about the dark academia, the author says, like,
to be a part of dark academia, you don't have

(15:20):
to have access to a country house, a field of flowers,
a big kitchen for baking, or an expensive prairie dress.
Most of the most of the clothing and dark academia
fans where is vintage and can easily be found in
second hand stores or sites. Um. And this like worms
to be very dark academia. It warms the cockles of

(15:43):
my heart. I I just like the the vibe that
these kids have and will link to the article is
like very It's exactly where I was when I was
that age, and all these kids are like so much
more put together and hotter than I was then, but
like it's still like I the the the aim and
what what is romantic to them? Feel I'm very sympathetic

(16:05):
to uh. And I think that that kind of egalitarian
aspect of it is is like super important because like
I was into that at a public school. Like I
think that most of these kids who are participating in this,
like if they like they're not they're not the like

(16:26):
kind of Ivy League, Like they're not a part of
the academy. They are taking the aesthetics of the academy
and molding it to their own purposes, which I think
is like a very good thing, because I think one
thing we've learned over um at least the past few months,
if not longer, is that the academy is more or
less broken, uh, And so why not just take the look,

(16:47):
especially if nobody's going to be going to school anyway,
like public, like the average American public school public high
school is like the least romantic place in the world
if you're a teenager. And so if you're going to
not be going to that specific physical place, like why
not build this school of the mind that you live in.

(17:08):
It's like vaguely like goth and and and and nerdy,
Like I don't know, I'm I'm supert late. I feel
like that aesthetic is just so prevalent in fiction. Um Again,
I'm a little concerned that maybe the thing cottage core
and dark academia have in common is sort of like

(17:28):
a fetishization of like England, like British, you know, school
uniform aesthetics. And then I was like many of the
things you are describing also described Caroline Callaway, who is
very into the academia aesthetic um and has also done

(17:49):
cosplaying as a bunch of like literary characters recently. It's
kind of like it's like movie Twitter for books or something.
It's like, yeah, it's the it's the fetish as they
sh of the objects and signifiers of like being a
smart person, which is like I think when you're a teen, fine,
like do not hang onto that as you go into adulthood.

(18:09):
Like I think that that can be very stunting in
a way, but I'm like fine, like whatever, Like it's
it sucks to be a teenager right now, and it
sucks to like do school right now as a young person,
whether that's college or high school. And you know, I
think the other thing is that like this is all
coming at a time when like Harvard, for example, I'm

(18:32):
sure other you know, some of the other most expensive
schools in the country are you know, all moving to
online for next year and still charging their same tuition.
And Harvard is still charging fifty dollars a year for
online school. So if you were going to Harvard for
like the vibes, like, you don't get those vibes anymore.

(18:53):
You might as well just do the vibes part for
free and go to like Phoenix University or whatever for
like it doesn't like don't go to college and just
editing or whatever or just or like, you know, if
you need to get a specific degree to get a
certain kind of job, like an associates degree or whatever,
do that. But like it can be you know, you
can some of the stuff can be democratized. You can

(19:16):
find that you can find the excitement and like romance
of learning in in your own way, and it doesn't
need to be this like classest thing. I also think
as a test will say you have to not live
in New England in order to romanticize New England. It's true,
But I also I think I have to say though
that I think it's wonderful to you know, I think

(19:38):
what Emily saying is wonderful, and I definitely think that
it's great to try to like see some of the
plus sides in this. But every time I think about
UM kids who were hoping to go to any college
in the fall not being able to, and honestly, when
I think about what kids in general are going through
right now, it makes me so depressed. I mean, it's
hard to even talk about like embodying the aesthetic of UM,

(20:02):
the school that you hope to go to. Even I
think it's absolutely insane that Harvard is charging fifty dollars
with the size of their endowment for online classes. But
I also just think of, like, you know, a kid
who's who just was so excited to move away from
home and go to school, and I, I, my heart is,
like I've rarely used like this earnestly the words like

(20:26):
my heart breaks for someone, but just all of the
when you think about like all of the kids who
really like needed to to get out on their own
and who are living in bad situations. Sorry to take
it down a dark path, but you know, I I
just it's so so heavy, and I guess, like if
the kind of like cause playing you know of like

(20:48):
you're still going to college and you can kind of
like play pretend makes them happy, that's great. But I'm
also just like god, I wish that people could get
it to gather, to figure out a safe way to
like allow kids to like be able to to continue
on going to school. Yeah, I mean, I think it's
just like they're trying to find the bright side and

(21:09):
things and and that's wonderful. I mean that that's like
with many things that are going on right now. It's
like you there's like this glimmer of goodness and like happiness,
but then you just kind of zoom out and you're like, man,
it's so depressing, Like it's it's just really hard to
think about being in that position. I mean, I think
also a lot of the people who are doing this

(21:30):
who you know, and I don't know how much of
an overlap there is with somebody who was going to
go to a respected American institution or you know, your
Oxbridge or whatever um and people who participate in dark academia.
I don't actually know, like I can't really really get
a handle on what that overlap is. But like a
lot of the people who are doing it are not

(21:51):
living in the US. Like one of the main, uh,
main originators of the whole vibe is a Brazilian girl. UM,
and I think that at a certain point, like it's
it's like I think that it has nothing, has nothing
to do with like what what those places actually are, Like,

(22:12):
I think it is it. It exists on its own.
After a while, it's like it becomes its own sort
of um like point of inspiration that's almost like divorced
from the institution. And I think and I think like
and and and Harvard is going to let some people
on campus this year, not everybody. I think that they're
going to be like thirty percent of UM their enrollment

(22:35):
is going to be allowed to live on campus, but
everybody is going to be UM online and uh. In
the meantime, a ton of people who have student visas
international students, and those a lot of those students are
the people who really were counting on having an on
campus experience at a school, more so than like somebody
in the U S who's like you know, whose parents

(22:58):
are paying their whole way to go to Harvard or whatever. Like,
those those people are like in a position to do
a romanticize Harvard the most and be be most the
most affected by school not being in session, and so
like and and and ice is going to be now
like not honoring these student pisas so like kids who
are planning on living here, whether it was on campus

(23:19):
or like in in a near campus apartment, like they
might not be you know, safe in the country anymore,
and that should have super fucked up. Um and so
I I do. There's a part of me that just
like it feels very kind. It is it's it's it's
a bummer, it sucks and it's sad, but it's also
like I like that this like the Internet finds a

(23:42):
way somehow to like persist. Yeah, that's what I mean though,
I mean it's like it just makes you think that
people you're like, that's very plucky during a time when
it's hard to be. And I think like, in a way,
I guess the thing that's the saddest to me no
matter what situation. But I thought you brought up great points, Emily,
is you know, I think the whole like aesthetic is

(24:03):
really just so tied to being a young adult and
being independent and like being able to have a style
that matches a place that you chose ideally to go
to school or whatever. Like, you know, there's many different
college aesthetics and I like pretty much all of them
because I just remember, like I don't know, just just
the feeling, the like excitement of being of reinventing yourself.

(24:25):
I guess as like a young adult was very powerful
and it it you know, it's really hard to think
about the different layers of like how this kind of
affects people's psyches. But those people get to put their
new identities online. Yeah, And I think one thing I
have learned from the little that I've been exposed to
TikTok is and especially when you're talking about these aesthetics,

(24:45):
is that they are so mutable and that people are
changing their identities all the time in very very conscious
ways that they announce and they show how they are
changing their looks. There are a lot of the dark
academic videos are this. They are like, I'm I'm being
dark academia. Now here's my here's my wardrobe. Um, here
are all the like slubby sweaters I got from Goodwill. Um,

(25:08):
it's very cute like and like, and I think that
there I I think that there is a lot of opportunity,
especially with the Internet, for people to try on those
new identities, whether they're living at home or whether they're
going out into the world on their own. Like I think,
I think that kids are result teens, especially with social
media accounts, are very resilient right now. Fores um, I

(25:31):
don't know, but yeah, I would uh, I would recommend
checking out the article at least because it's just sort
of a trip. It's just like we're now at a
place where this is this is what school is now.
I'm just imagining like if we had had TikTok and stuff.
I guess we had YouTube, but like during the recession
and we're all just making videos that were like I

(25:52):
thought I'd be a grown up now oops, here comes
a recession. I mean that was me in high school anyway.
Like I mean, like I think that this look was
sort of more my core. But like then I would
be like, Okay, it's goth day to day, Like I'm
going to get my goth stuff out and like I
would have, you know, these specific look days and be
like I'm doing this this week or whatever. In a

(26:15):
very kind of tiki taki homespun way. Tiki talkie and
I And that's like some of the stuff I'm most
nostalgic about about being young is like even if you
don't have money or resources, like it feels like the
idea of the self that you're building is so endlessly mutable.

(26:36):
It's like very I don't know, it feels it feels fun.
It feels like anything is possible. But yeah, yeah, it's
also just like it's funnier to cause play the secret
history than like Harry Potter. And I'm sure that all
these kids who like also according to this article, are
like super super progressive, like very like gender queer, like

(26:57):
like you know, are very very woke, uh are I'm
sure that they're all abandoning their their child love of
Harry Potter right now, and they're all like kind of
all over like be careful with referencing classicism and stuff,
which is like hilarious. It's like they're already doing it,
like right, I read it a great There's like a
quote from Ursula Kyla Gwen about how Harry Potter was

(27:21):
kind of a rip off of the Earth Sea books
that she wrote, but she was like, but they have
no class consciousness, so they're like not good they're like,
I guess she was. She was really funny. She was like,
I guess they made someone a millionaire. Yeah, like not me.
She also like apparently stole from some um like Neil
Gaiman book that look looked like really bad. Yeah yeah,

(27:46):
like look up like Google and Neil game in Books
of Magic at the covers look exactly like Harry Pottery
Painter books are like not well written, picular. I would
just like I would disagree with that. They're like they
move along. Yeah, that's what a why book has to do. Yeah,
but there's better, there's better magical young fantasy. Y A.
You know what I really liked this was my dark

(28:06):
Academia was the worst witch. You love the worst witch,
get into the worst. I definitely seen the worst, which
wasn't that. Um what was that actress was from? Yeah, okay,
there we go. Yeah for all that's phenomenal. There was
also it was like a series of books, and there
was also a I believe it was a British show

(28:29):
that they then dubbed in with either American or Canadian voices,
So it had a super weird feel to it that
I didn't pinpoint until later. Yeah. Yeah, that was like
a made for TV movie or something. Yeah. Yeah, Witch
Academies always always, which you watched a good animey about

(28:50):
a witch academy too, right, me? Yeah, it was magical Modocca,
not a it's not it's not now. But there's like
Little Witch Academia, which is very possitive. Watched it. But yeah,
we're all we're all graduating summa kum laude from Little
Witch Academia. Um. Well, we're gonna take a break and

(29:13):
when we come back, we're gonna bring Hannah Georgis on
to talk three sixty five days. Welcome back to Nightcall.
We are now joined by Hannah Georgis. She's a staff

(29:36):
writer at the Atlantic and she's here to take a
very special night call with us. Hey, guys, a long time,
long time. I just watched three D sixty five days. Uh,
the erotic film that's kind of sweeping TikTok and is
currently number ten on trending movies on Netflix. Um, and

(29:57):
I'm very curious to hear your guys thought as kind
of the resident erotic thriller, you know, experts. All right,
thank you, by wow. I feel very honored right now. Um.
I have to say though, as maybe uh, not exactly
a erotic thriller expert, not in the way that this
collar says that we are. I did not know about

(30:18):
three D sixty five days until I read Hannah's Peace
in The Atlantic about it, um, which had you know,
a headline I'm sure just like was caddip to me
like why is everybody watching this mysteriously awful erotic thriller
on Netflix? And I was like, click right now, why

(30:39):
why was everybody watching this mysteriously terrible erotic thriller on Netflix? Well? Um,
you know, I think it's a bunch of things. It's
like Netflix and their algorithm being mysterious, as they always are. Um,
but also it's just so weird and outlandish and I
think removed from what kind of sex, if any, is

(31:01):
happening right now in the world, and so there's something
like ha ha, like this is just outrageous. Look at
these people they're having sex outdoors, and like there's something
like fabulous and wild about it. Um. But I think
appealed to people right now in this moment where human
beings are not really touching each other. Yeah, there's something
like that's the opposite about COVID and lockdown, about like

(31:23):
the drone shots of like right, the opposite of where
we are right right, Like that's always a ridiculous thing
for most people, and now it's just like, what an
outrageous concepts They're outdoors having sex. It's like, no, this
would always be weird. But yeah, any human contact is

(31:43):
now science fiction. That's true. Yeah, I do think like
in your piece you also touched on this thing that
I want to like dig into more about this movie
and about like anything that can even vaguely be called
an erotic though or erotic drama that comes out now,
which is it Like it's sort of inevitably about like
luxury and stuff like like that's the big thing with

(32:06):
fifty Shades of Gray, which is this Obviously there's a
kind of spiritual resemblance too. In a lot of ways
it inspired it. So did the book was inspired by
it directly because these are based on Polish books, correct
Polish books. The woman who wrote the trip it's a trilogy,
and the woman who wrote them was formerly a cosmetologist

(32:26):
and then a therapist and a hypnotist. Uh And she
said she was inspired by Gotta Have Her On Total
nightc material. She said she was inspired by fifty Shades
of Gray and a personal holiday trip to Italy Sicily specifically,
which obviously but yeah, I was like, I mean the

(32:47):
fifty Shades is very, very baked in fifty shades was
was itself Twilight fan fiction exactly. It's just a lot
of iterating yeah, yeah, And it's like, you know, it's
funny because like I'm like a very I'm like a
big lurker on like Archive of our own and like
all fan fiction forums and like what pad and ship

(33:08):
like that, and it's very funny because like if you look,
if you search Twitter for people talking about three in
sixty five Days, there's like a meme going around where
it's like like, uh, like people watching through in the
sixty five Days for the first time, like Wow, it
would be so cool to have a dangerous mafia boyfriend.
And then it's like people who live on what Pad
and it's a it's like a screen grab of James

(33:29):
Franco from The Ballad of Buster Scrugs when they're like
getting hanged and he's like first time. Because it's just
like the template of this movie and like the way
that the plot works is like just ground level fan
fic um like erotic fanfic stuff. Um, yeah, there's something.

(33:51):
I mean, I think that that there's there's some appeal
in that too, right, that people can just put can
graph whatever their own personal things are onto this movie
because there's not actually really coconesive storyline or real characters
to latch onto. Like these aren't people so much as
they are like stock characters to sort of im you
with your own whatever. Honestly, it makes so much sense

(34:13):
that beloved genre tonight call softcore would come back during
Lockdown because everyone's trapped at home at all times, and
I feel like one thing the streaming wars have been
missing is like the soft core element that made premium
cable such a hit, and that maybe spawned a lot

(34:34):
of these erotic thrillers because we've said a lot of
it's like you can get away with anything if you
say it's European totally. Well, I was gonna say, like
also on top of that, like next to the need
for softcore during during Lockdown, there's like the need for
a hunk, which I think you like get into the
start whose name I was trying to look up again,

(34:56):
who's become kind of yes, yes, he also sings a
bunch of the tracks which are really in its own Okay,
So the audience who may not have seen this movie,
such as me, can you give me a brief rundown
of you know how many of the nightcall erotic, thriller,

(35:18):
bingo things are getting checked off in this movie. I
should check you know, what happens in this movie. So
he's a millionaire and he kidnaps her. I want to
hear Hanna try and do it and we can jump
in because I feel like your piece made us watch
this movie. And so to all every time you say that,
I'm like, what have I done? We're grateful, We're grateful.

(35:39):
Thank you. So this man, me Massimo, who's played by
Michael Moroney, this liken car throb figure who becomes to something.
Um sees his father, who's a like the Sicilian mob boss,
be murdered right in front of him, like he gets
flattered with his dad's blood. It's like right there. And
as this is happening, he looks off into the distance

(36:01):
and they're like on this like lighthouse structure near the sea,
Like they're just kind of in the middle of the ocean,
on the structure, and he looks out and as his
dad gets shot, and he sees this woman in the
distance and he decides like that she's like some apparition
and he has to find her, and he becomes obsessed
with her, and like ages later, you find out like, okay,
it's just you know, Laura, the woman who's the Laura

(36:26):
taking turns out that she this balds woman. Fast forward,
and he kidnaps her and tells her that she basically
has three hundred and sixty five days to either fall
in love with him or he'll like release her, and she,
you know, shockingly like does soon on soon into the arrangement,

(36:46):
and then they have just a lot of really outrageous
and impractical sex. But that's mostly there's like some other
stuff that happens. Please describe the sex more on this
spit aspect, which I feel is really the zeit geist here.
I still kind of they let me do that in

(37:08):
one scene. There is a lot of spit. Really. Yeah,
So the first the way that the first actual sex
scene when she decides that like this is going to
happen comes to be is that she falls off of
the side of the yacht. It kind of looks like
she jumped, but she falls they're having to fight. They're
having to fight, it's like almost violent. Yeah, But then

(37:31):
he jumps in to save her and she's overwhelmed with
gratitude and decides that you know, she loves him. Now
they're going to have sex with the wrong So thus
begins this like incredibly long sequence where they're having panoramic
shots like the yacht, the wa the iseland, like anything
that you and like you can see them as like

(37:52):
tiny little blips on the yacht having sex, but they're
just there. It's from so many different angles, and the
kind of closer up ones one of them he's like
about to go down on her and fits and that
like there's a whole sort of close shot of that.
People really responded to it is there is there full

(38:13):
frontal in this movie. Not for no, not not quite.
It's like, you know, it's soft. But also I should
say that I found this movie so unsexy and it's
really for a few reasons, right, But okay, Hanna, was
it also for you because of the soundtrack? Then the
soundtrack is insane. As soon as you start to be like, hum,

(38:35):
maybe then they play either um, Mikaela Marons like his tracks,
which I think have some really goofy names like hard
for Me, It's so bad. But then there's also these
songs by a band called Everybody Loves an Outlaw and
they're from Texas, and that's the more kind of like weird,

(38:56):
easy listening, ish soft rock kind of thing. They're like,
I think there was some streaming platform that had the
Hills for a while and UM replaced. They had to
replace all the songs because they couldn't have the right.
They didn't have the right, So it was just like
weirdly anonymous pop that sounded, you know, kind of just
off a little bit because it was made in a lab.

(39:18):
That's kind of what sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like
it's supposed to. Soundtracking would be about a girl who
like goes to college somewhere in like the Pacific Northwest.
It just like like, this just doesn't fit what I'm
being asked to consume. Yes, it is so far from
a sexy vibe. It's like a like studying hard vibe. Yeah,

(39:43):
I feel like we all, we all did not have
like a particularly sexy reaction to nine and a half Weeks,
which is another classic You didn't you mean you're saying
you didn't have a sexy reaction in half weeks. I
mean it felt sort of clinical. No, no, no, I
had an opposite reaction on your face. Sorry, wait, Hanna,

(40:05):
have you seen nine and a half weeks? I haven't.
It's like a really good anaduct to this. I think
I think it's kind of great. There's a long tradition
of movies that get really bad reviews and then are
really popular with people because they're so horny, and it
sounds like, yeah, sometimes that's what you want. I uh

(40:26):
So I went into watching this, you know, I was,
you know, I'll prep to to watch a certain thing
after reading your article. And then there, um, there was
this sort of controversy that surrounded it. Um the singer
Duffy uh pendant kind of open letter basically taking Netflix
Netflix to task for what she said was romanticizing and

(40:48):
glorifying um, what's essentially a kidnapping in a trafficking story.
Uh And and she herself had been a victim of
this kind of crime, I guess a couple of years ago,
so she was just so. I I kind of went
into it being like, oh, no, is this like more radioactive? Then?

(41:08):
I thought, I like, like it was more radioactive thing
than I thought I was getting myself into UM, and
I think, like, and so it made me more tuned
to the kind of um, the kind of violence and
like fucked up psychology that was going on in this
like in a way that I was for nine and
a half weeks UM just because I think that that's

(41:29):
like just a good movie about that that's like depicts
that stuff. But this is a bad movie that depicts
that stuff. But I was still very like attuned to
it and thinking about, like, I think especially we watched
we watched UM Starship Troopers last week, which is a
great movie and perennially relevant especially now, and I was

(41:50):
thinking about, like how much that movie is about like
violence and force and taking things by force and like
a culture built around force. And there's so many times
in this movie where, like, especially in the first half,
where she's like where he's like kind of getting in her,
like getting in her personal space, like kind of threatening
her sexually, and she always says like, or what you're
gonna kill me? And I always thought that was so

(42:13):
interesting because there's this thing where it's just like this
guy is so aggro, but all he can threaten is
violence and in a way that's like constantly questioned by
the female character in a way doesn't feel like he
might actually kill her, That's my question. I mean, he's
like a murder. He kills other people, like that's the

(42:34):
whole mafia boyfriend trope. If he's sexy and he like
keeps his secrets. Yeah, yeah, I definitely felt like he
is capable of violence for sure, But I do think that,
you know, at least for me, I never felt like
he was actually going to kill her, right, like, because
the whole, the whole thing of it is like here's

(42:55):
this like a guy who kills people and he does
all this bad stuff, but like, really he has this
intense for you. It's like that's so messed up on
like a million different levels. And also like he does
kind of hold to having a thing, however messed up
it is. I feel like everyone litigated this a lot.
When Fifty Shades of Gray came out, there was a

(43:16):
lot of like, well, if it's fantasy, like can it
show something that's really fucked up, you know, and we
acknowledge that it's fucked up? Or does just the act
of showing it always like fetishize it. I still don't
know what I think. I think it's case by case.
Um obviously, like I understand why Duffy doesn't want to

(43:37):
watch it, you know. Um, I feel like something like this.
I'm like, it's a this is a bad movie, but
I'm kind of grateful for like there is something that
a movie like this is uniquely positioned to be able
to expose about, like attitudes about sex and violence. Um. Yeah,

(43:57):
Pulverhoven said that about Start Ship Troopers, who is like,
you can, yeah, you can show as much violence as
you want, but you can't show a Tit can't show
a titty in American movies or they'll give you like
an m C seventeen, which is totally true. So I
think also just having a movie that has a lot
of semi full nudity uh and sex in it is

(44:20):
is always how they've marketed a certain type of European
art movie to Americans. And yeah, I think a lot
of people it's like it's not so much the Europeans.
You know, if a movie is like high salutint enough
obviously as you can put lots of sex in it
and it will get Oscars. But like this seems like
it's kind of trashy and tremendously trash, and that the

(44:41):
dissonance is all between like how sexy it's supposed to
be and how like skin Crawley it actually is. Well,
it also makes no sense, and I think Hanna brought
that up like really well in your piece when you
kind of said that it it reflects our surreal reality
and and how things feel very off, and this movie,
everything about it feels very off. We were talking earlier

(45:03):
about how it has a lot of like The Bachelor
kind of baked into it as well. I was like
ninety Day Fiance, which I've been watching a ton of
of the like you know this kind of weird the
like the ticking clock of on the romance, these kind
of contrived, weird meetings with like um, he meets her
parents at a wedding and like we're very strange. Strange. Well,

(45:28):
that's what's so weird about Fifty Shades of Gray too.
And I think this entire genre is, like it's not
really about sex. It's about this like deep soul connecting
romance that like starts with sex but then becomes like
an all an, all consuming obsession. It's like Wuthering Heights style.
You know it's fucked up, but everyone involved just into

(45:49):
how fucked up it is, which is what makes it okay.
It's like the movie. I feel like most of these
movies make it clear that it's like a little consensual
and in fifty Shades of Gray. They like sort of
interrogated whether it is at the end of the first
one at least, and then walked it back. How did
do you think this would be popular without COVID and
without lockdown? Like obviously that the appeal of a cheesy,

(46:12):
globe trotting sex movie is is one thing, But do
you think that, like there's something that's still in the air,
regardless of if we're all locked up at home in
our own prisons, where uh yeah, where this would still
like take off. I can see it being really big
around the holidays, like you know what I mean, Yeah,

(46:38):
being trapped in someone else's house. Yeah, there's just some
stuff going on where people look to entertainment that is
sort of slightly outside of what they might normally consume
and also against at least a real slightly bizarre and
not necessarily made. They're just like obvious sidelines. Yeah, and
I think that all humors have that ability to like

(47:01):
have a curveball hit. It just makes sense that, you know,
after rom comms would come erotic thrillers. Is this movie
erotic or a thriller? I don't think it's a thriller. Really,
it's an erotic and erotic drama, which is the same
genre as uh nine and a half weeks. So what
movies do you guys think are legitimately sexy? Well, it's

(47:31):
it's funny because I think that a lot of the
stuff that sticks out in our memories when it comes
to like sexy movies, like sexy mainstream movies are like
stuff that left a big impression on us as young people. Right, no,
you could show that in a movie. But but yeah, there,
once you become an adult, I feel like it's less

(47:52):
about just the pure shock or titilation and and like okay,
but what's actually sexy in a movie? Like how do
you compose? Like you know, the work of intimacy coordinators
and stuff like how do you make something hot? I'll
give my answer to step Up Eat Mama Tambian. M hmm. Yeah,

(48:14):
it sounds kind of sad though. That one always bums
me out a little bit. Though we're not mutually exclusive
exactly that you can play that game. So that's a
great movie, I mean honestly, because I think anything with
Marsh Chestnut and it is like by default just gonna
be sexy, especially that era. But I do think that

(48:36):
they there was a particularly interesting thing that they did
with like the gender dynamics and that like in retrospect,
not always perfect, but like there was interesting kind of
play between the two of them, and I enjoy it
back and forth, um like that. Yeah, it's totally. That
is like a great screwball comedy. Yeah, like nineties screwball comedy.
Love a Battle, Yeah, literally, just keep thinking of movies

(49:02):
where people fight. It's just not even going to go there.
It's also I mean, it's it's interesting when you think
about in terms of directors who are good at it,
Like I do think the car Own is really good
at at at sex scenes. Um like two Momcomb and
it's like, you know, one of the more memorable examples,
but I think in general he's just like good at

(49:22):
intimacy in movies. And I think that's such an interesting
thing too, because I think it's really important to have
directors who can who are like smart and sensitive about
that stuff. But it also like sometimes you end up
with a name to your line who I think is
really good and depicting that stuff. But when you learn
about how the sausage sausage was made, it's sometimes a

(49:44):
little bit like, oh, sounds like it wasn't a fun
set to be on. Sounds like people are really uncomfortable.
So you know that's not always and that's not always
apparent from from watching the thing itself. Like I can't
imagine that the Three five Days director, whose name don't
even have in front of me right now, but like,
I can't imagine that they that this was a particularly

(50:05):
nuanced or like progressive set, just because it's not a
particularly nuance to progressive movie. But um, maybe it was.
I don't know, we don't know, we don't know. I
tell you who directed this movie, by the way, it's
Barbara and Thomas Mandy's yes, and and and I like
that it was written the writer's name is Blanca Lipinska.

(50:26):
I mean, I think that kind of lends it a
little bit of I don't know, not insulation. Like Duffy's
letter was really obviously it was important to read that perspective.
She had only recently talked about this publicly, about her
experience of being kidnapped and abused and everything, so it
was you know, I definitely respect that she took everyone
to task for this, and it was something that I

(50:47):
felt it was important to keep in mind, uh watching
the movie. But I do think the fact that, like
fifty Shades, it was written by a woman and it
has like there's knowing that it kind of does inform
like how you can choose to view the movie. Well,
this is interesting though, because my big takeaway from this
movie is that it is a girl boss porn for

(51:11):
women to write a movie about sex. It is not
necessarily like chill. Joel Just our producer Joel just chimed
in on chat to suggest Bound by the Witchowski Sisters.
The witch Howskis are also really really good at that stuff.
I was just like going on and on about cloud

(51:32):
Cloud out lists recently, which like for all its faults,
I think is really good. It's just like intimacy. I
just realized none of us have mentioned Portrait of a
Lady on Fire. Everybody was what are horny for? I
seen it and what I want to say. Also the Handmaiden,
Oh yeah, m extremely good horny movie from recent times. Yeah,

(51:57):
I think it's it's you know, people were really into
showing saliva on screen when I went to a Vienne
and like twenty whenever. Um, and a lot of like
women especially we're very into like I want to show
like crazy rough sex and like just because I'm a
woman doesn't mean that I don't want to see that. Um,

(52:18):
And so I think that, Yeah, I think this movie
is like it's intended probably it's just sort of like
a fantasy. Uh, it doesn't seem like a realistic depiction
of maybe anything. Right. It's when you should see teens
respond to it, especially on the TikTok Yeah, yeah, they're
so Betty tik talks about this movie, um, and a

(52:41):
lot of them are just about how Masson was like
super hot or which like fine, but there's so many
that are like you know, or tweets that are like
it's always like you know, what are you doing? Never
like want to recreate the gaps? And do you actually
want to recreate you know? But it's just like it's

(53:01):
just good joke for me. And I am also curious
about like what a teen audience thinks of essentially like
right now or with with other stuff that's kind of
out there in this moment, like how do you necessarily
watch normal people and then watch through sixty five days?
Like where where does this fit kind of in that graph. Yeah,
it's interesting that even though that you know, porn is

(53:22):
accessible now and you can see like hardcore sex, you know,
a lot of Like the thing about erotic thrillers was
like these were movies you would see on premium cable
late at night, and that was like, especially for girls,
probably like your main access to anything pornographic unless you
wanted to go to the store and buy something. But
it's interesting that like even with as much access as

(53:43):
kids have now that they still Yeah, it's like people
like the romantic sex scenes um or the sex scenes
is just a part of a narrative, you know, and
then like the slow burned thing and everything. Yeah, they
like they like raphoria, you know, the zooms, and then
it's again like bring it back. But this is also

(54:05):
a movie about wealth and like conspicuous wealth, and it's
not just like somebody cannots you and takes you to
their basic and it's like you're going to fall in
love with me here and my like you know, dingy whatever,
it's like fall in love with it. Honest, Yeah, you
don't have to be here, but we're on and up.
Isn't that cool? Yeah? Yeah, no, and it's it's it's
I mean I end up thinking, I mean, I ended

(54:26):
up thinking this about fifty shades. I end up thinking,
I think it's really hard to have like for what
I guess the erotic photos that are getting green light
right now, it's it's hard for them to not feel
like they're inevitably about capitalism and like working within it
and like negotiating with a captor, like negotiating with like
a system that you actually can't get out of. But
then it tricks you into thinking that you have made
a choice. Okay, we should definitely do show Girls sometime, Yeah,

(54:52):
because I think it's about that. I think that's another
movie that's like not at all sexy, but it's like
it's not really about sex, it's about capital. And they're
is this idea built into everything that like if you
have enough money, you can buy anything you want, including people,
as you know, sex objects. Uh that these movies are
not critiquing. These movies are just like and that's great.

(55:14):
I don't want to be like a sugar baby. Well,
I actually like it. Maybe it's just like the confluence
of watching these things at the same time. But like,
just because I've been watching I made a story you
right now. Um, I was just thinking about the like
the weird kind of territory that these two work share oddly,
especially when it comes to like, yeah, like what you

(55:35):
think are your choices within a given set of parameters,
and like what um like the idea of lost time,
like she has in in in in three to sixty
five days. She has some sort of heart conditions, so
she's constantly swooning. And at first I'm like, oh, that's
so goofy, like the swooning lady who keeps having to
get rescued by this gangster. But then I was like,
there's this weird sort of non linear feeling to it

(55:58):
where it's just like and then I passed out and
I woke up and I was on a yacht like,
which is very like also Ebsteini too in a weird way. Like,
but this idea of just like losing like truly losing
agency at times and not even realizing it is really creepy.
Like it's very um yeah, it's and I was just
thinking about, like, you know, you could watch something that

(56:20):
deals with that in a lot more like Nuance and
with I May Destroy You. But those things are on
my mind, I guess going in UM. I thought. One
of the reasons I'm hypothesizing wildly here that people, especially
teens might have connected more with three sixty five days
than if it were presented to them at a time

(56:41):
when they weren't under quarantine is it's also kind of
a fantasy about not having to make any decisions, like
the decision anxiety that we all feel, particularly when it
comes to travel or being in unfamiliar surroundings or being
around other people. I was like, because I was wondering
at one point it was like, this kind of reminds
me of the trip, like the trip to Italy, the

(57:03):
trip degrees. I've been like rewatching some of the trips
over quarantine because all I want to do is just
see people in like unfamiliar places, places where I'm like,
will I ever be able to leave doing the exact
same thing but with below decks? Oh yeah, totally. UM
The greatest show in the world UM on Bravo about
people who work on a yacht. It's so good because

(57:24):
it's about the people who work on the yacht rather
than like the like is they're constantly like dogging on
the rich people and being like who would pay for this?
Like there's a podcast on iHeart right, Yes, I think
Anna is on that. Maybe I wanted to say. Also,
though it seems like just in that idea of being
trapped in your house with your family, unless you live

(57:46):
in like a high house, unless you're like a fully
advanced team who uh lives by themselves in a high house,
is that it's like fantasy is also about privacy in
your head away from other Well. One of the most
fraught things though right now is the fact that when
you make a decision to leave your house at all,

(58:07):
even just for your own survival, like to get food
or you know, to seek like emergency medical treatment, there
is the feeling that that could be a horrible decision
that you're making. And I think, like, you know, at
one point, um Laura says of Massimo that you know,
one of the things that she really loves about him
is that she feels like a little girl because she
feels like protected and defended and basically she's like he

(58:30):
makes he makes all of her decisions for her. They
only fight when she like decides to make her own decision.
Obviously that's a problematic thing in general, but right now,
when it's so scary to make decisions, I think like
the fantasy aspect of it is partially like someone shows
up and they just put you here and they tell
you to do this, and they tell you to do that,
and you get you either enjoy it or you don't,

(58:52):
but you don't have any responsibility for that decision making.
I would pay so much money to bet for just
like a man, right, And this is obviously not that
very different. And also like if I could just assign
somebody else's decision for a little lot, Yeah, it's the
sub fantasy. I think the algorithm is part of that

(59:14):
fantasy because I think people also want to be told
what they should be watching. Yeah, a little bit. And yeah,
I think that top ten works really well as just
propaganda to make you be like, what is this? Shall
I dive in? Other people like this? Right at lately?

(59:35):
That is um like that you actually really genuinely love, right.
I've also been watching I May Destroy You, I watched
for West Night, um, I started see you one of
true Detective because a friend recommended it and it has
been trying to get to get me to watch it
for ages and it's amazing, and also like I need
to find another show because I can't only be watching

(59:55):
I may destrow you in True Detectives. So I'm I'm
probably gonna start below Deck to kind of counter down.
Oh yeah, because it can't. It's right now, it's pretty.
It's pretty literally like those two things. And then my
partner not and I watched Dexter every night, which is
like lovely and also again, yeah, this is like hardcore

(01:00:20):
because my preferences are so far outside of that normally,
I'm like, what rom com is there? Like is there
a show? Can I watch something? And now I found
myself watching three like very heavy and like lightly murder
slash Crimes. Yeah, yeah, always one, like one of the
first shows I remember I couldn't eat while I was

(01:00:41):
watching it. There was too gross, Like I'll season four
and I'm like, how did I get here? I can't
do I'm not good at like murders show like violence,
it doesn't you know. But we watched Barry before that,
and I was like, this is funny. I can maybe
do another serial Pillent Show and Dexter's Bloodier. You're getting
all of Emily's respect for what having like the slate

(01:01:05):
I just need to read. This is not I don't
think any of us are on our usual slates though
right now we're all branching out in ways. I truly.
I just watched Below Deck and I'm at like different
points in the timeline because I go to the earlier seasons.
I just watched the pilot yesterday for the first time,

(01:01:26):
and yeah, it's just they're always somewhere you want to be.
It's always like, you know, they're in the south of France.
Is that water there in can? Right? I can use
another Love Island season, honestly, I would like for one
to materialize. You watched that, right, Molly, You're Love Island.
Oh yeah, I find British reality television too. But then

(01:01:48):
that also, like Love Islands, some funked up stuff happened
with the host and uh, nothing is like just pure
escape isn't anymore? And also Toast of London. I was
going to say, the opposite one of everything you've been
watching is Toast of London. You know what else is
what what we do in the shadows? I find to

(01:02:10):
be like so silly and enjoyable. Yeah, just like silly
stuff is good right now, I think, yeah, it's that
weird stuff that weird. Yeah, like it's so it just
makes me happy, which is like I'm trying to watch something.
But I would argue that three sixty five days is
that for me, especially the line that you like, I

(01:02:31):
was very glad you highlighted and like, I'm not a
bag of potatoes that you I cackled. I cackled during
this review, So maybe it was like my friends about it.
Honestly might have been my I don't remember what time,
you know, conversations are anymore. But whoever responded to it
like that's really European to reference potatoes and an argument?

(01:02:57):
Oh my god. So it sounds like what you guys
are saying is that three and sixty five days fails
as an erotic thriller but succeeds as a horror comedy.
That's actually maybe right, Yeah, that's true. It's in the ballpark. Yeah,
I'll give it. Sounds good. Well, thank you so much

(01:03:18):
for joining us this sweet onna. Um. Where can people
find you online? Um? As we mentioned, you're on at
the Atlantic as a staff writer. But yeah, yes, I'm
also unfortunately still on Twitter very periodically. Often we can't
help it. I know it's well everyone's while go off,
but now is not one of those times. UM. So

(01:03:39):
it's the open like I and any difference ending I
will change it one of these days days not that day. Um,
that's obviously. UM. Well, yeah, I think this is so fun.
I was so glad to have you on us. I'm

(01:04:00):
so sorry for doing this to you. You cannot say
how thankful weird. Yeah, you took us aboard your yacht,
showed us your heart. Thank you getting wet probably for
very long time. Well, thank you so much on it,

(01:04:20):
and we will hope to have you back again soon.
And thank you for listening to Nightcall. We'll be back
next week. We can find us on social media at
Nightcall pot on Twitter, Nightcalled Podcasts on Instagram and Facebook.
Subscribe to us on iTunes and leave us a rating
and review please, we would appreciate it very much. You
can also support us on Patreon at patreon dot com

(01:04:42):
slash Nightcall, where you can get our newsletter, books, episodes,
merch and all sorts of fun stuff. And we will
see you all next week. By

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Host

Molly Lambert

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