December 14, 2022 • 33 mins
Welcome to the final chapter of Wild Chocolate! This week, we dive into the actual experience of eating REAL chocolate. Why does it have an almost drug-like effect on so many of us? And what can a chocolatier do to make that experience pop? And, you know, where can I get me some? (To start go to www.stettler-chocolate.com)
For seven weeks, we’ve dragged you past floods and jungles, electric eels and narco traffickers and this week, we’re not gonna do any of that. No dangers, no scandals, just bliss. So kick back and relax. This is desert.
Want some of this god-level chocolate? Kaleidoscope has joined forces with Luisa Abram and Stettler Chocolate to make a special box to go along with this very podcast.. Just visit: www.stettler-chocolate.com to order your wild chocolate today. Like what you hear? Follow us @kscope_nyc on Twitter and Instagram.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Anything you want to open. Um. You know, my credit
card is warm, so your credit card. I'm in the Meadow,
a tiny little shrine to craft chocolate in Lower Manhattan,
and I'm with Clay Gordon. So we have Syrene in Canada,
we have Ascos still might be the only from the
(00:33):
bean chocolate maker in Iceland, so their factory is in
reik Vick. I've been there. Clay is the chocolate expert
from Jafter four who took me through Whole Foods and
cluded me into the corporate powers behind almost every bar
on that shelf, and that experience left me longing for
the independence the small players who are crafting really good
(00:53):
stuff out of sustainably sourced beans. Up to now on
the show, we've been focusing on the handful of people
working with really wild cacao, which is kind of a
unique situation, and of course there are also hundreds of
producers around the world making amazing chocolate from the small
supply of high quality, farmed varieties, and as a professional journalist,
(01:14):
I felt it would be irresponsible of me not to,
you know, familiarize myself with those chocolates as well, So
Clay whisked me onto the subway and under the ease
driver did the meadow, which has about three hundred bars
on its shelves, displayed like fine art. And now he's
talking me through them as he grabs the greatest hits, mirrors,
(01:36):
date paste and fennel. O m g. It's like one
of my favorite bars. Insane. And soon there's a stack
of bars at the register and we've even sucked down
the woman running the store. All right, I'm opening amp Street.
Are you getting on? I haven't tried this one anyway,
so I'm curious. So you want to bite, because what
(01:58):
you want to do is you want to understand the chew,
how it feels as you bite down round. So this
is cold, and so it's sort of fractured when I
bit through it, but it usually started melting right, so
good thing. Sure m hm. We continue to chew a
few times to start them out. Rub some with the
(02:24):
tip of the tongue against the base of their teeth.
That will let us know about the greediness, the granularity,
how it's refined, so there's no grit, no grain, very
very clearly, very all right, there's um a little hint
of acidity that goes through the way through right, so
very bright, sort of up in the nose kind of thing.
(02:45):
There's yep, you want to let him in fun? Yeah, hey,
And then a pair of unsuspecting customers comes into the
Star and I can't help myself. Do you guys wanna
taste some chocolate? We just opened up a really good
barny go ahead? See yeah, so this is this is
(03:09):
a dark chocolate, so no added milk. It's made by
a small producer in the UK, the Chris Brennan, who's
the founder of the company Pump Street Bakery Chocolate. The
beans come from the Bachelor Hall Estates on the island
of Jamaica. Wow, there are some, and soon we've pretty
much taken over the whole store. There are open wrappers everywhere.
(03:32):
My credit card is smoking. We're making new friends and
I can say is god, damn this stuff is good.
It's it really feels like you're eating something special. It's
very magically because you are welcome to the final chapter
of Wild Chocolate. This week we dive into the actual
(03:55):
experience of eating real chocolate. Why does it have an
almost drug like effect so many of us, and what
kind of chocolate here due to make that experience pop?
And you know where can I get me something? For
seven weeks, we've dragged you past floods and jungles, electric
eels and nargo draftickers, and this week we're not going
(04:15):
to do any of that. No dangers, no scandals, just bliss.
So kick back and relax. This is dessert from Kaleidoscope
and I Heart Podcasts. This is Obsessions Wild Chocolate. I'm
Rowan Jacobson, Chapter eight, The bliss Factor. Here's off the
(04:57):
tast stop stop smart. Since the beginning of time, humanity
has kind of been on this quest for peak consciousness
and we're looking for all sorts of substances to achieve that.
(05:18):
And whether it's through something you know, nutritionally, or whether
it's through like performance with you know, athletics or meditation,
you name it, it's ongoing. That of course is Mark,
Christian philosopher of chocolate. Mark is here to help us
channel our bliss because the guy he's been around, he's
(05:38):
seen the big bond bond of chocolate culture from the
inside out, and he's convinced that this stuff has a
real power that hasn't been truly recognized outside of the
core believers. That is, these chocolate terians, you know, mad
for chocolate, chocolate maniacs. You go to their shows, but
there are across somewhere between a religious revival and a rave,
(06:01):
and they're they're really amped on it. And for them
it's so like, you know, when do you have chocolate?
I have chocolate, get up at chocolate for breakfast. I
had chocolate for you know, coffee break chocolate. You know,
after lunch, I have chocolate for tea with tea, bah
blah blah. And others they have chocolate hollars. Do they
know something that we don't? Are they on the golden path?
Well Mark says maybe he actually sees a glimmer of
(06:25):
salvation in those chocolate raves, because in a world of
increasing disunity, of splintering factions and agendas, he thinks chocolate
can be a unifying force, a way to remind us
of our common delights and our shared interests. The rainforest
ambassador to humanity is chocolate because billions of people love it,
(06:48):
and so as that ambassador from the rainforest, it can
bring people to the rainforest, not physically, but in that
portable transport called chocolate. What's really interesting about that attraction
is that we don't just share it with other people
across the planet right now. It also connects us to
all those people who have been seeking the sublime through
(07:10):
chocolate for thousands of years, all the way back to
those first unknown people who were playing around some pods
somewhere in the jungle and stumbled onto revelation. Mark has
a theory about that Big Bang moment. Maybe it was
a lazy afternoon and they were picking some pods and
they didn't get into splitting them open and taking them
(07:32):
for their juice, that pulp inside, which is what you know,
humans and monkeys wanted for when they maybe split some
pods open or just just stored them away for an
afternoon or two. And it started for many naturally, and
then when a human came by and they spliced it
open and boom, a this stuff tastes a little different,
a little it's from men, a little sour and so
and and then a couple of hours later, I'm getting
(07:54):
a little effect here, you know. Interesting. And then you
can also speculate that maybe one night, while they're they're
cleaning the pulp off um and they're around the campfire,
maybe some you know, seeds or beans got stuck in
the camp fire, you know, and then the fire is
done for the night or the next morning, and they
(08:15):
still see some those beans, and maybe somebody just by accident,
you know, picked up a bean, said, hey, that tastes bad.
It doesn't taste too bad. Let's see what we can
do with these things, and in the process begins. Fast
forward to a few thousand years ago, and cacao is
helping the ancient peoples of the Americas to make their
(08:35):
evenings extra special. They have this ritualized use of cacao.
They're making beverages with it, and at the end of
these evenings they would take their vessels, their cups and
plates and smash them against the wall Hendrick style, you know,
(08:55):
like performative. It's it's we're at an end here. And
that was that. Okay, Today it's bad form to smash
the dishes against the wall after a little chocolate fix.
But you get the idea. Chocolate is performative. It gives
a little boost, makes that quest for peak consciousness a
little bit easier. But here's the thing. After spending months
(09:17):
in the land of washing cocaine in Ayahuasca, I've started
thinking about how there are different flavors of peak consciousness.
Sometimes you want to be a jaguar gliding through the
tropical night, and sometimes you just want to be reminded
of the joys of being a living, breathing, sensing human
being in a garden of earthly delights. For at least
(09:38):
five thousand years, chocolate has helped us get there. And
you'll know you're there because well, it might feel a
little bit like Mark Christian's experience after nibbling on one
of his favorite bars, a Tien Gong chocolate from Vietnam.
And I'm telling you, man, I was getting things like
sandal wood and fod yeah and clove, and then I
(10:03):
was getting things like opium. When a good chocolate hits you, man,
you're stoned. Like this bar is way off the charts.
You know, this thing was doing a gong on my head.
You know, I thought I was at the Apollo getting
taken off stage. This is going off and so like,
whoof And it just kept coming and coming in these
(10:26):
ways and so like, and then oh, here comes the
crow gives awesome saffron screeping in there. It wasn't stopped,
so like, there is no chocolate on earth like this Okay, everybody, relax,
don't panic. There's enough to go around. We've been working
on this for a while to make sure everybody can
get there fix and we'll give you the full scoop
(10:47):
after the break. Do you remember any formative memories when
you were a kid involving chocolate, the first time you
tasted it, or first time you tasted really good chocolate. Yeah,
(11:10):
I think when there was a kid. Uh, the first
chocolate I had was that's not a real chocolate, Sarah
got there was the first chocolate I was tried, and
that those was amazing. That is Chef's salvatory. Martoni sal
(11:32):
is a legendary pastry chef. He ran the pastry program
for the Joel Roberschon Restaurants, which have more Michelin stars
than any restaurant group in history, and he's also executive
pastry chef. First Statler Chocolate, which, as I'm sure you
figured out over the past seven episodes, is keeping up
with Kaleidoscope and Louisa Abram to bring a special box
of Louise's Wild Chocolates to the US. It includes three
(11:54):
different bars made with wild cocoo from three different rivers
in the Amazon Jurua Perus and token jeans, and they
are all incredibly rare and incredibly different from each other.
I can't remember how this idea got started. It was
just an idle comment like, hey, we should actually give
people a chance to taste this stuff. But the next
(12:14):
thing I knew it was real, and Jeff stal was
one of the people responsible for that. He was into it.
So I was truly curious to hear why he was
interested and what he thought of it, not to mention
why he thinks chocolate has such power over us in general.
And to start, we have to go back to his
son drenched childhood in southern Italy. I remember, like on Sunday,
(12:37):
my grandmother used to give me like who was at
the time equivalent to dollars today, and I would go
straight to the to the this candy store and spend
all my money and finish it before I even get home.
My mom would say, like, what happened? I bought some chocolates?
(12:58):
Say what is it? It's going on? And little did
you know that you're going to be a professional. That
was that was going to be your field. Um. And
one of the things I've really learned a lot as
I've been working on this show. Is the amazing range
of flavors that different chocolates can have, different chocolates from
different places, different cocoa beans. Are there certain qualities you
(13:20):
look for in a chocolate, Yes, the origin of the
chocolate is the most important thing, you know, it's the
origin and the fermentation. In the beginning, you know, I
never would have told that chocolate was a fermented product
like like a wine like beer, you know, it is.
It is kind of strange that if there is no fermentation,
(13:44):
there is no chocolate flavor. The difference in flavor is
it's all depends from the where the beans is grown
and how it's fermented, and then how it's roasted. You know,
chocolate meg it's a little bit of a combination of
wine making and coffee making. Grape when you make wine,
(14:05):
it's everything, right. A cabernea savignon is the same method,
just different grades. And that's the fermentation part of the chocolate.
But coffee beans you have origin. That's very important. But
also roasting is super important. You know, some people roasting
very slow and delicate. Some people are more aggressive on
(14:27):
the roasting, dark roasting, and and the chocolate you have
both processed. You have fermentation, origin, and roasting all in
one product. There is one chocolate in particular that Lisa
was producing. It's called the Jewra River. Probably I'm not
pronouncing right, No, I think that's right. Yeah, I mean
(14:49):
pretty class. The things that she done is like she
understood from the beginning and this was like a different
kind of plant. And after there is roasted, it doesn't
never any basidity. And as this like very flower notes
that regular chocolate doesn't have. It's very different from other chocolates.
(15:11):
So that was very interesting too to work on this
project because of that. So you've got the three three
bars together in one box. So when people get the box,
they get the three bars and they can taste side
by side. Yes, they are all from different parts of
the Amazon River. So we have the Dua that is
the upper river, the Purus that's the middle, and the
(15:36):
Token Teens it's the lower river on Amazon. Each one
is as as different that could be from the other one.
The upper river is like leechy and flowery and no acidity.
And then we go to the middle of the Purus
River that's more like notes of banana and molasses and chestnut.
(16:01):
So very hearty flavor, and then the lower part it's
like orange zest and lemon zest and very like creamy
and honey flavors. So as humans, we always understand things
by comparison. Yeah, and there is nothing better to understand
the flavor of one by comparing to the others. Right
(16:25):
and same factory, So the only difference is the beings
themselves itself. Chef, you must have seen this a million times.
When people eat chocolate, they sort of get very focused, right.
They things that might be distracting them go away, and
they are very present in the moment with their chocolate.
(16:45):
So especially Um, as you're describing the three tasting the
three different kinds side by side, it seems like almost
like a form of meditation where people can be totally
present with their senses, their small sent to smells and
to taste and come to some sort of connection with
the chocolate. Um. And you must see this in restaurants
(17:09):
all the time, where people are taking your your creations
and having sort of like a moment of peak experience
with them. Yeah. Um. Obviously like chocolate. You know, it's
a bigger list of dopamine. But at the same time,
at the same time, like if you're really tasting chocolate,
(17:31):
you know, like you were, you were like like melting
slowly in your mouth and filling all the notes of
the chocolate. And as you breed, you can also the
smell of the chocolate as an effect on you. When
you're eating it and the chocolates start to melt, because
it melts a body of temperature, the only thing you
(17:52):
can feel is like this silk smooth texture and it
is a little bit of of meditation, and like you said,
I give you this sense of peace and enjoy. It's
a very special product. Last pitch, I swear to order
the tasting box and try those chocolates. Just find the
(18:15):
link on the show notes bon appte. After the break
we go beyond the Bar. I have loved chocolate since
(18:48):
I was a little girl. I wrote a cookbook called
Desserts around the World for my first ever independence whole projects.
Like most of the people you've heard from on this show,
one of the things that brought uncommon to cow founder
and only stoned to chocolate was lovely interesting. And then
in seventh grade, I did my science project on cupcakes.
It is a called one is a cupcake not a cupcake?
(19:11):
That's a great title. It was really fun. I also
got to make many batches of cupcakes, and I basically
took one ingredient. I would each time to see like
how far I could get from it being a cupcake.
That's so scientific. I took out the flour, would still
be a cupcake? Answer? No, not really, um, not really frostable.
(19:33):
But let's hold on that cupcake for a moment. Because
one of the things Emily got me thinking about is
what is the best form for ultimate chocolate delivery. Up
to now, we've been talking about chocolates, piers form the bar,
but of course that's just one of many ways people
get their chocolate fix, and Emily is not even sure
it's the best way. We actually wound up chatting about
(19:54):
this one night over beers at a Belize Reay Gay bar.
Sometimes I wonder if chocolate bars are the totally yes, yes,
oh my gosh, we've got to get behind beyond the bar.
Beyond the bar definitely, And I think some of the
companies that we've seen grow the fastest in the craft
chocolate space, you know, our bean to bon bon and
being too cookie and being too brownie and being too
(20:16):
hot chocolate I couldn't get that idea out of my head.
So when I was back in the States, I searched around.
Like I've said, most chocolate makers just make bars, and
most chocolate tears just use ready made chocolate. But was
there some culinary artists out there who knew the ins
and outs of rare de cows and worked with them
to go beyond the bar? Could I find me a
(20:38):
bean to bon bon master who could help me understand
why chocolate is such a bomb for our brains, our bodies,
and our souls. Honestly, the same name kept coming up,
So everything here is a moment's beaten. We try to
have a sculpture in here at all times, usually last
about three months before something bars and eats it. And
(20:58):
from his website I could tell this was my guru.
So on a cold, gray winter day, I got in
my car and made the drive to a lonely temple
of chocolate in Manchester, New Hampshire. Everything is arn't we
Usually you're too busy to pay attention. It's like, well,
look at you think about old cultures like the Maya
(21:19):
and Japan before the West, right, there was no such
thing as art. You painted the screen you made things beautiful,
but that was an art. You just take that right.
In downtown Manchester, there's this little postage stamp shop called
Dancing Lion. It's part chocolate shop, part Wonka's factory, and
I'm standing inside with its proprietor why Dancing Lion before
(21:40):
I forget? Oh, my name is Tango LOWI. Tango is
a dance Lois Remainian from Lion. Richard Tango Low is
a middle aged guy with a bandana on his head.
He talks fast. You might be tempted to chocolate up
to caffeine, but actually most chocolate is very little. The
real source of Richard's excitement is inspiration. He reminds me
of a combination between a mad scientist and a master painter.
(22:02):
He's just possessed by his subject. The perception that everything
is just art kind of started to infuse everything here
became kind of unavoidable. Then you know bars bon bonds,
how we served drinks. He's definitely got the art gene.
But in his former life, before he answered the siren
song of chocolate, he was a physicist. And you can
(22:24):
tell it's for chocolate tier the fact that it is
a non Newtonian fluid becomes that big deal with different Wisconsin.
When you start moving in different viscousins wants, it's moving,
see what I mean. We're a little unusual. When the
most chocolate tears worked with like a chocolate or two,
we have twenty. Maybe Rich was my guy, the cocao
(22:45):
whisper who's listening to the beans, asking them what they
wanted to be, and then taking them all the way there.
The front half of Dancing Lion holds a few tables
stacks of Japanese style pottery by a local artisan, and
a glass case filled with crazy z creations, chocolate goddess
sculptures and bounce side trees, edible raccou teacups, chocolate hearts,
(23:08):
and I mean hearts like a yordas. The back half
of Dancing Lion is the mad scientist part, a pile
of churning machines, turning all those different beings into non
Newtonian fluids to serve as the clay for Rich and
as co chocolate your Rachel's creations. But they don't simply
turn each chocolate into its own thing. They use them
(23:29):
like a conductor might use a string section from a
flavor perception standpoint, your moods, your perceptions, what you've eaten,
how do you feel, what's going on in your life
that week? All those effect what you taste. And so
we need to do is we need to kind of
get an overall flavor model in our brains, so we'll
taste formally and casually over weeks. Because red chocolates have
(23:50):
different moods. Some are spiky and some are soft, and
some are cylindrical, and some evolve in different ways in
your mouth. And you have to really learn what a
chocolate looks like know how to use it. If you're
a fan of the super shiny, overly gilded sopranos style
of bond bond you find in every other chocolate shop,
you're not going to know what to make of dancing
(24:10):
lions bond bonds. Rich is the disciple of Wabi sabi,
the Japanese aesthetic that finds a sort of heartbreaking beauty
and the fleeting nature of existence for for the times
this year, we always feel a limited edition, like twelve
things and Rachel I made these hearts and they were beautiful,
and we just I can tell with her she wasn't happy,
(24:30):
and I wasn't happy, and I mean, they were gorgeous,
but they weren't right. And we're sitting there having to
one Monday morning, so we're just chatting, and she said,
we need to break the hearts and I said, so
we take a girl in there, We take all the SARTs,
we just smash and include them back together and they
were beautiful. Okay, that's that. Aesthetics shows in all his chocolates,
which have the palette of a late fall day, all
(24:52):
bronzes and dusky skies and copper patina. You can't help
but think about the incredible beauty of the world, even
as it slips a ay from you. Rich plunks two
plates on one of the tables, each holding a rustic truffle.
He wants to teach me how to taste, how to
be in the experience, however fleeting it is, or maybe
because it's cleaning. This is This is a straight up
(25:15):
ghana ganash for a little bit of honey. It's a
fluffy but nelts really beautiful in your mouth. It's gonna
have a really high sort of bike. Continue structure to it.
And then I dusted it with in robed it, dusted
it with chie spice and tie teeth, and we ground
and then in robed it again. Um. The robe is
a blend of Tanzania and met ness. Just so you
(25:35):
got that. It's a truffle with a fluffy center, made
from Ghana chocolate, enrobed in a mix of two other chocolates,
some from Tanzania and some from Vulkan, Lehman and Bolivia,
then rolled in Chinese spices and powdered Thi tea. We
popped them in our mouths and my teeth break through
the crispy shell into the creamy center, and a symphony
of chocolate notes cascades over me. Thank you so for
(26:02):
you that you have probably have questions, Yeah, like why
is that truffle so good? So we take it very much.
What do we want you to experience when when we're
making a bond bondy, So what's the first thing he
hits your tongue with a truffle the chocolate on the outside.
So if that would pure Tanzania, you would get berries
(26:24):
and you would lose everything else. And I didn't want that,
but I did want the acidity um to cut against
that really kind of rich fight in Ghana. Um, so
using enough, you know, maybe half Tanzania and half Bolivia
brings that tansonia down, softens it, olaws it's playing better,
but still brings up the acidity a little bit. I
(26:45):
asked him if that's the secret to chocolates appeal, the
intensity of flavor, and he says, well, yeah, but don't
forget the psychoactives. Chocolates feel good. It doesn't give you
a just gets your heart going a little bit. It
makes you feel good. Sixty and neuro transferters, they all
make you feel good. So it's a it's a dopamine
bad right the th and there. It's like you you
(27:08):
eat chocolate, you feel good. There's a reason that people
think that because it works. Neurotransmitters are just the molecules
that the neurons in your brain use to communicate to think,
and the ones in chocolate, like dopamine, just happened to
be the ones your brain uses to think deep happy thoughts.
And that brings me back to the ancient Maya and Aztec.
(27:30):
To them, chocolate was sacred. It wasn't just a latte
of the four hundreds. It was their way of coming
into harmony with the universe, with the cacao goddess, with
their own ancestors, and they always drank it. But why
that question had been kicking around my brain for months.
The Maya and Aztec were perfectly capable of eating their
(27:50):
chocolate in solid form, and yet they never did. Why
Is there something about drinking the stuff that changes the experience,
that maybe brings the god a little bit closer. I
knew Rich was the guy to ask, because that's his
other specialty. While one hand pursues chocolate in its most
artistic and impossible forms, the other is obsessed with chocolate
(28:12):
that has no form at all. I've done a lot
of research on how people basically help people originally made
drinking chocolate, you know, see all next, going back about
six thousand years probably, And so we serve it pretty
much the same way. This kind of similar spices a
little bit of you know, we use Central American chili's
um and we serve it very frothy, and then you're
(28:33):
pouring it from on high into bowls. So this is
about of authentics that can make this step no dary
in this It's hardly sweeten it, just it's a mostly
early chocolate. We use Karagua and Calabash. Bulls were pretty
traditional and that's not really patrical for us. Sorrow Bulls
have our logowner made by a local product. People like it.
(28:56):
The cool thing about the bowls. You can't drink a
bowl without paying attention. You're looking into the ball. So
Rich came to this inside after quietly observing people in
his cafe. But we learned early on here that people
would come in and they'd be busy. People have things undermined.
But when you pick up a ball, you have to stop.
(29:17):
We had these two guys, they were obviously lawyers, and
they took over a table and they had papers everywhere.
They would be talking and talking, and then we get quiet.
You look and they both pick up their bulls and
they would drink and be like fifteen seconds of nothing,
and then you go back to work. And we realized that,
you know, that's the reason that works. We see our
tea now and you know we sort of coffee and
balls because you're part of One of our goals is
(29:38):
to take people out of their normal life to make
them pay attention. So I try it. Rich hands me
a simple pottery bowl filled with frothy chocolate, and I
retreat to a corner table. I blow a window into
the froth to reveal the thick, brown liquid, and for
the first time I realized that when they drink a
(29:59):
gourd of chocolate, every mine, every Amazonian must think, Hey,
this stuff looks just like my river. It's like they're
drinking the lifeblood of the rainforest, and in a sense
they are. I sipp the chocolate and let the aromatics
of the Amazon fill my sinuses, and for a moment,
(30:19):
I'm back there, the ancient trees, old trunks falling, new
ones rising, the thick rivers spilling over the land, the
frothing biology. I keep sipping now. The neurotransmitters are seeping
into my consciousness, softening the edges of the new England
winter outside. Just for a moment, time stands still, and
(30:44):
the hot jungle rises. Out of my bowl. There's an
echo of ayahuasca on the periphery, a sheen of colors
merging into a brown vortex of oneness, and I just
sit with it for a while. I don't know how long,
an hour, a second, and then of course time snaps back.
(31:08):
The bowl is empty, an existence flows on. Thank you
for listening to the show again. If you want to
(31:28):
get a taste of some Wild Chocolate. Head to Stetler
Dash Chocolate dot Com link in the show notes. Wild
Chocolate is a Kaleidoscope production with I Heart podcast hosted
(31:48):
and reported by me Rowan Jacobson and produced by Shane
McKeon at Nice Marmatt Media. Edited by Kate Osborne and
my Guest out of Kudor. Sound design and mixing by Soundboard.
Original music composition by Spencer Stevenson, a k a Botany
production help from Baheeny Shorty from My Heart. Our executive
producers are Katrina Norvelle and Nikki Etre. Special thanks to
(32:10):
Laura Mayor, Costaslinos Ozwalash and Aaron Kaufman, Will Pearson, codel Burn,
Bob Pittman, Daria Daniel and the team at Stetler who
are helping us make a very special chocolate of our own.
That's right, We're working with Louisa at Others to protect
the rainforest and make delicious Amazonian chocolate. Visit www Dot
(32:30):
Stetler Dash Chocolate dot com to taste it for yourself.
That's www Dot Stetler dash Chocolate dot com. And if
you want to hear more of this type of content,
Nothing is more important to the creators here at Kaleidoscope
than subscribers, ratings, and reviews. Please spread the love wherever
you listen.
Anything you want to open. Um. You know, my credit
card is warm, so your credit card. I'm in the Meadow,
a tiny little shrine to craft chocolate in Lower Manhattan,
and I'm with Clay Gordon. So we have Syrene in Canada,
we have Ascos still might be the only from the
(00:33):
bean chocolate maker in Iceland, so their factory is in
reik Vick. I've been there. Clay is the chocolate expert
from Jafter four who took me through Whole Foods and
cluded me into the corporate powers behind almost every bar
on that shelf, and that experience left me longing for
the independence the small players who are crafting really good
(00:53):
stuff out of sustainably sourced beans. Up to now on
the show, we've been focusing on the handful of people
working with really wild cacao, which is kind of a
unique situation, and of course there are also hundreds of
producers around the world making amazing chocolate from the small
supply of high quality, farmed varieties, and as a professional journalist,
(01:14):
I felt it would be irresponsible of me not to,
you know, familiarize myself with those chocolates as well, So
Clay whisked me onto the subway and under the ease
driver did the meadow, which has about three hundred bars
on its shelves, displayed like fine art. And now he's
talking me through them as he grabs the greatest hits, mirrors,
(01:36):
date paste and fennel. O m g. It's like one
of my favorite bars. Insane. And soon there's a stack
of bars at the register and we've even sucked down
the woman running the store. All right, I'm opening amp Street.
Are you getting on? I haven't tried this one anyway,
so I'm curious. So you want to bite, because what
(01:58):
you want to do is you want to understand the chew,
how it feels as you bite down round. So this
is cold, and so it's sort of fractured when I
bit through it, but it usually started melting right, so
good thing. Sure m hm. We continue to chew a
few times to start them out. Rub some with the
(02:24):
tip of the tongue against the base of their teeth.
That will let us know about the greediness, the granularity,
how it's refined, so there's no grit, no grain, very
very clearly, very all right, there's um a little hint
of acidity that goes through the way through right, so
very bright, sort of up in the nose kind of thing.
(02:45):
There's yep, you want to let him in fun? Yeah, hey,
And then a pair of unsuspecting customers comes into the
Star and I can't help myself. Do you guys wanna
taste some chocolate? We just opened up a really good
barny go ahead? See yeah, so this is this is
(03:09):
a dark chocolate, so no added milk. It's made by
a small producer in the UK, the Chris Brennan, who's
the founder of the company Pump Street Bakery Chocolate. The
beans come from the Bachelor Hall Estates on the island
of Jamaica. Wow, there are some, and soon we've pretty
much taken over the whole store. There are open wrappers everywhere.
(03:32):
My credit card is smoking. We're making new friends and
I can say is god, damn this stuff is good.
It's it really feels like you're eating something special. It's
very magically because you are welcome to the final chapter
of Wild Chocolate. This week we dive into the actual
(03:55):
experience of eating real chocolate. Why does it have an
almost drug like effect so many of us, and what
kind of chocolate here due to make that experience pop?
And you know where can I get me something? For
seven weeks, we've dragged you past floods and jungles, electric
eels and nargo draftickers, and this week we're not going
(04:15):
to do any of that. No dangers, no scandals, just bliss.
So kick back and relax. This is dessert from Kaleidoscope
and I Heart Podcasts. This is Obsessions Wild Chocolate. I'm
Rowan Jacobson, Chapter eight, The bliss Factor. Here's off the
(04:57):
tast stop stop smart. Since the beginning of time, humanity
has kind of been on this quest for peak consciousness
and we're looking for all sorts of substances to achieve that.
(05:18):
And whether it's through something you know, nutritionally, or whether
it's through like performance with you know, athletics or meditation,
you name it, it's ongoing. That of course is Mark,
Christian philosopher of chocolate. Mark is here to help us
channel our bliss because the guy he's been around, he's
(05:38):
seen the big bond bond of chocolate culture from the
inside out, and he's convinced that this stuff has a
real power that hasn't been truly recognized outside of the
core believers. That is, these chocolate terians, you know, mad
for chocolate, chocolate maniacs. You go to their shows, but
there are across somewhere between a religious revival and a rave,
(06:01):
and they're they're really amped on it. And for them
it's so like, you know, when do you have chocolate?
I have chocolate, get up at chocolate for breakfast. I
had chocolate for you know, coffee break chocolate. You know,
after lunch, I have chocolate for tea with tea, bah
blah blah. And others they have chocolate hollars. Do they
know something that we don't? Are they on the golden path?
Well Mark says maybe he actually sees a glimmer of
(06:25):
salvation in those chocolate raves, because in a world of
increasing disunity, of splintering factions and agendas, he thinks chocolate
can be a unifying force, a way to remind us
of our common delights and our shared interests. The rainforest
ambassador to humanity is chocolate because billions of people love it,
(06:48):
and so as that ambassador from the rainforest, it can
bring people to the rainforest, not physically, but in that
portable transport called chocolate. What's really interesting about that attraction
is that we don't just share it with other people
across the planet right now. It also connects us to
all those people who have been seeking the sublime through
(07:10):
chocolate for thousands of years, all the way back to
those first unknown people who were playing around some pods
somewhere in the jungle and stumbled onto revelation. Mark has
a theory about that Big Bang moment. Maybe it was
a lazy afternoon and they were picking some pods and
they didn't get into splitting them open and taking them
(07:32):
for their juice, that pulp inside, which is what you know,
humans and monkeys wanted for when they maybe split some
pods open or just just stored them away for an
afternoon or two. And it started for many naturally, and
then when a human came by and they spliced it
open and boom, a this stuff tastes a little different,
a little it's from men, a little sour and so
and and then a couple of hours later, I'm getting
(07:54):
a little effect here, you know. Interesting. And then you
can also speculate that maybe one night, while they're they're
cleaning the pulp off um and they're around the campfire,
maybe some you know, seeds or beans got stuck in
the camp fire, you know, and then the fire is
done for the night or the next morning, and they
(08:15):
still see some those beans, and maybe somebody just by accident,
you know, picked up a bean, said, hey, that tastes bad.
It doesn't taste too bad. Let's see what we can
do with these things, and in the process begins. Fast
forward to a few thousand years ago, and cacao is
helping the ancient peoples of the Americas to make their
(08:35):
evenings extra special. They have this ritualized use of cacao.
They're making beverages with it, and at the end of
these evenings they would take their vessels, their cups and
plates and smash them against the wall Hendrick style, you know,
(08:55):
like performative. It's it's we're at an end here. And
that was that. Okay, Today it's bad form to smash
the dishes against the wall after a little chocolate fix.
But you get the idea. Chocolate is performative. It gives
a little boost, makes that quest for peak consciousness a
little bit easier. But here's the thing. After spending months
(09:17):
in the land of washing cocaine in Ayahuasca, I've started
thinking about how there are different flavors of peak consciousness.
Sometimes you want to be a jaguar gliding through the
tropical night, and sometimes you just want to be reminded
of the joys of being a living, breathing, sensing human
being in a garden of earthly delights. For at least
(09:38):
five thousand years, chocolate has helped us get there. And
you'll know you're there because well, it might feel a
little bit like Mark Christian's experience after nibbling on one
of his favorite bars, a Tien Gong chocolate from Vietnam.
And I'm telling you, man, I was getting things like
sandal wood and fod yeah and clove, and then I
(10:03):
was getting things like opium. When a good chocolate hits you, man,
you're stoned. Like this bar is way off the charts.
You know, this thing was doing a gong on my head.
You know, I thought I was at the Apollo getting
taken off stage. This is going off and so like,
whoof And it just kept coming and coming in these
(10:26):
ways and so like, and then oh, here comes the
crow gives awesome saffron screeping in there. It wasn't stopped,
so like, there is no chocolate on earth like this Okay, everybody, relax,
don't panic. There's enough to go around. We've been working
on this for a while to make sure everybody can
get there fix and we'll give you the full scoop
(10:47):
after the break. Do you remember any formative memories when
you were a kid involving chocolate, the first time you
tasted it, or first time you tasted really good chocolate. Yeah,
(11:10):
I think when there was a kid. Uh, the first
chocolate I had was that's not a real chocolate, Sarah
got there was the first chocolate I was tried, and
that those was amazing. That is Chef's salvatory. Martoni sal
(11:32):
is a legendary pastry chef. He ran the pastry program
for the Joel Roberschon Restaurants, which have more Michelin stars
than any restaurant group in history, and he's also executive
pastry chef. First Statler Chocolate, which, as I'm sure you
figured out over the past seven episodes, is keeping up
with Kaleidoscope and Louisa Abram to bring a special box
of Louise's Wild Chocolates to the US. It includes three
(11:54):
different bars made with wild cocoo from three different rivers
in the Amazon Jurua Perus and token jeans, and they
are all incredibly rare and incredibly different from each other.
I can't remember how this idea got started. It was
just an idle comment like, hey, we should actually give
people a chance to taste this stuff. But the next
(12:14):
thing I knew it was real, and Jeff stal was
one of the people responsible for that. He was into it.
So I was truly curious to hear why he was
interested and what he thought of it, not to mention
why he thinks chocolate has such power over us in general.
And to start, we have to go back to his
son drenched childhood in southern Italy. I remember, like on Sunday,
(12:37):
my grandmother used to give me like who was at
the time equivalent to dollars today, and I would go
straight to the to the this candy store and spend
all my money and finish it before I even get home.
My mom would say, like, what happened? I bought some chocolates?
(12:58):
Say what is it? It's going on? And little did
you know that you're going to be a professional. That
was that was going to be your field. Um. And
one of the things I've really learned a lot as
I've been working on this show. Is the amazing range
of flavors that different chocolates can have, different chocolates from
different places, different cocoa beans. Are there certain qualities you
(13:20):
look for in a chocolate, Yes, the origin of the
chocolate is the most important thing, you know, it's the
origin and the fermentation. In the beginning, you know, I
never would have told that chocolate was a fermented product
like like a wine like beer, you know, it is.
It is kind of strange that if there is no fermentation,
(13:44):
there is no chocolate flavor. The difference in flavor is
it's all depends from the where the beans is grown
and how it's fermented, and then how it's roasted. You know,
chocolate meg it's a little bit of a combination of
wine making and coffee making. Grape when you make wine,
(14:05):
it's everything, right. A cabernea savignon is the same method,
just different grades. And that's the fermentation part of the chocolate.
But coffee beans you have origin. That's very important. But
also roasting is super important. You know, some people roasting
very slow and delicate. Some people are more aggressive on
(14:27):
the roasting, dark roasting, and and the chocolate you have
both processed. You have fermentation, origin, and roasting all in
one product. There is one chocolate in particular that Lisa
was producing. It's called the Jewra River. Probably I'm not
pronouncing right, No, I think that's right. Yeah, I mean
(14:49):
pretty class. The things that she done is like she
understood from the beginning and this was like a different
kind of plant. And after there is roasted, it doesn't
never any basidity. And as this like very flower notes
that regular chocolate doesn't have. It's very different from other chocolates.
(15:11):
So that was very interesting too to work on this
project because of that. So you've got the three three
bars together in one box. So when people get the box,
they get the three bars and they can taste side
by side. Yes, they are all from different parts of
the Amazon River. So we have the Dua that is
the upper river, the Purus that's the middle, and the
(15:36):
Token Teens it's the lower river on Amazon. Each one
is as as different that could be from the other one.
The upper river is like leechy and flowery and no acidity.
And then we go to the middle of the Purus
River that's more like notes of banana and molasses and chestnut.
(16:01):
So very hearty flavor, and then the lower part it's
like orange zest and lemon zest and very like creamy
and honey flavors. So as humans, we always understand things
by comparison. Yeah, and there is nothing better to understand
the flavor of one by comparing to the others. Right
(16:25):
and same factory, So the only difference is the beings
themselves itself. Chef, you must have seen this a million times.
When people eat chocolate, they sort of get very focused, right.
They things that might be distracting them go away, and
they are very present in the moment with their chocolate.
(16:45):
So especially Um, as you're describing the three tasting the
three different kinds side by side, it seems like almost
like a form of meditation where people can be totally
present with their senses, their small sent to smells and
to taste and come to some sort of connection with
the chocolate. Um. And you must see this in restaurants
(17:09):
all the time, where people are taking your your creations
and having sort of like a moment of peak experience
with them. Yeah. Um. Obviously like chocolate. You know, it's
a bigger list of dopamine. But at the same time,
at the same time, like if you're really tasting chocolate,
(17:31):
you know, like you were, you were like like melting
slowly in your mouth and filling all the notes of
the chocolate. And as you breed, you can also the
smell of the chocolate as an effect on you. When
you're eating it and the chocolates start to melt, because
it melts a body of temperature, the only thing you
(17:52):
can feel is like this silk smooth texture and it
is a little bit of of meditation, and like you said,
I give you this sense of peace and enjoy. It's
a very special product. Last pitch, I swear to order
the tasting box and try those chocolates. Just find the
(18:15):
link on the show notes bon appte. After the break
we go beyond the Bar. I have loved chocolate since
(18:48):
I was a little girl. I wrote a cookbook called
Desserts around the World for my first ever independence whole projects.
Like most of the people you've heard from on this show,
one of the things that brought uncommon to cow founder
and only stoned to chocolate was lovely interesting. And then
in seventh grade, I did my science project on cupcakes.
It is a called one is a cupcake not a cupcake?
(19:11):
That's a great title. It was really fun. I also
got to make many batches of cupcakes, and I basically
took one ingredient. I would each time to see like
how far I could get from it being a cupcake.
That's so scientific. I took out the flour, would still
be a cupcake? Answer? No, not really, um, not really frostable.
(19:33):
But let's hold on that cupcake for a moment. Because
one of the things Emily got me thinking about is
what is the best form for ultimate chocolate delivery. Up
to now, we've been talking about chocolates, piers form the bar,
but of course that's just one of many ways people
get their chocolate fix, and Emily is not even sure
it's the best way. We actually wound up chatting about
(19:54):
this one night over beers at a Belize Reay Gay bar.
Sometimes I wonder if chocolate bars are the totally yes, yes,
oh my gosh, we've got to get behind beyond the bar.
Beyond the bar definitely, And I think some of the
companies that we've seen grow the fastest in the craft
chocolate space, you know, our bean to bon bon and
being too cookie and being too brownie and being too
(20:16):
hot chocolate I couldn't get that idea out of my head.
So when I was back in the States, I searched around.
Like I've said, most chocolate makers just make bars, and
most chocolate tears just use ready made chocolate. But was
there some culinary artists out there who knew the ins
and outs of rare de cows and worked with them
to go beyond the bar? Could I find me a
(20:38):
bean to bon bon master who could help me understand
why chocolate is such a bomb for our brains, our bodies,
and our souls. Honestly, the same name kept coming up,
So everything here is a moment's beaten. We try to
have a sculpture in here at all times, usually last
about three months before something bars and eats it. And
(20:58):
from his website I could tell this was my guru.
So on a cold, gray winter day, I got in
my car and made the drive to a lonely temple
of chocolate in Manchester, New Hampshire. Everything is arn't we
Usually you're too busy to pay attention. It's like, well,
look at you think about old cultures like the Maya
(21:19):
and Japan before the West, right, there was no such
thing as art. You painted the screen you made things beautiful,
but that was an art. You just take that right.
In downtown Manchester, there's this little postage stamp shop called
Dancing Lion. It's part chocolate shop, part Wonka's factory, and
I'm standing inside with its proprietor why Dancing Lion before
(21:40):
I forget? Oh, my name is Tango LOWI. Tango is
a dance Lois Remainian from Lion. Richard Tango Low is
a middle aged guy with a bandana on his head.
He talks fast. You might be tempted to chocolate up
to caffeine, but actually most chocolate is very little. The
real source of Richard's excitement is inspiration. He reminds me
of a combination between a mad scientist and a master painter.
(22:02):
He's just possessed by his subject. The perception that everything
is just art kind of started to infuse everything here
became kind of unavoidable. Then you know bars bon bonds,
how we served drinks. He's definitely got the art gene.
But in his former life, before he answered the siren
song of chocolate, he was a physicist. And you can
(22:24):
tell it's for chocolate tier the fact that it is
a non Newtonian fluid becomes that big deal with different Wisconsin.
When you start moving in different viscousins wants, it's moving,
see what I mean. We're a little unusual. When the
most chocolate tears worked with like a chocolate or two,
we have twenty. Maybe Rich was my guy, the cocao
(22:45):
whisper who's listening to the beans, asking them what they
wanted to be, and then taking them all the way there.
The front half of Dancing Lion holds a few tables
stacks of Japanese style pottery by a local artisan, and
a glass case filled with crazy z creations, chocolate goddess
sculptures and bounce side trees, edible raccou teacups, chocolate hearts,
(23:08):
and I mean hearts like a yordas. The back half
of Dancing Lion is the mad scientist part, a pile
of churning machines, turning all those different beings into non
Newtonian fluids to serve as the clay for Rich and
as co chocolate your Rachel's creations. But they don't simply
turn each chocolate into its own thing. They use them
(23:29):
like a conductor might use a string section from a
flavor perception standpoint, your moods, your perceptions, what you've eaten,
how do you feel, what's going on in your life
that week? All those effect what you taste. And so
we need to do is we need to kind of
get an overall flavor model in our brains, so we'll
taste formally and casually over weeks. Because red chocolates have
(23:50):
different moods. Some are spiky and some are soft, and
some are cylindrical, and some evolve in different ways in
your mouth. And you have to really learn what a
chocolate looks like know how to use it. If you're
a fan of the super shiny, overly gilded sopranos style
of bond bond you find in every other chocolate shop,
you're not going to know what to make of dancing
(24:10):
lions bond bonds. Rich is the disciple of Wabi sabi,
the Japanese aesthetic that finds a sort of heartbreaking beauty
and the fleeting nature of existence for for the times
this year, we always feel a limited edition, like twelve
things and Rachel I made these hearts and they were beautiful,
and we just I can tell with her she wasn't happy,
(24:30):
and I wasn't happy, and I mean, they were gorgeous,
but they weren't right. And we're sitting there having to
one Monday morning, so we're just chatting, and she said,
we need to break the hearts and I said, so
we take a girl in there, We take all the SARTs,
we just smash and include them back together and they
were beautiful. Okay, that's that. Aesthetics shows in all his chocolates,
which have the palette of a late fall day, all
(24:52):
bronzes and dusky skies and copper patina. You can't help
but think about the incredible beauty of the world, even
as it slips a ay from you. Rich plunks two
plates on one of the tables, each holding a rustic truffle.
He wants to teach me how to taste, how to
be in the experience, however fleeting it is, or maybe
because it's cleaning. This is This is a straight up
(25:15):
ghana ganash for a little bit of honey. It's a
fluffy but nelts really beautiful in your mouth. It's gonna
have a really high sort of bike. Continue structure to it.
And then I dusted it with in robed it, dusted
it with chie spice and tie teeth, and we ground
and then in robed it again. Um. The robe is
a blend of Tanzania and met ness. Just so you
(25:35):
got that. It's a truffle with a fluffy center, made
from Ghana chocolate, enrobed in a mix of two other chocolates,
some from Tanzania and some from Vulkan, Lehman and Bolivia,
then rolled in Chinese spices and powdered Thi tea. We
popped them in our mouths and my teeth break through
the crispy shell into the creamy center, and a symphony
of chocolate notes cascades over me. Thank you so for
(26:02):
you that you have probably have questions, Yeah, like why
is that truffle so good? So we take it very much.
What do we want you to experience when when we're
making a bond bondy, So what's the first thing he
hits your tongue with a truffle the chocolate on the outside.
So if that would pure Tanzania, you would get berries
(26:24):
and you would lose everything else. And I didn't want that,
but I did want the acidity um to cut against
that really kind of rich fight in Ghana. Um, so
using enough, you know, maybe half Tanzania and half Bolivia
brings that tansonia down, softens it, olaws it's playing better,
but still brings up the acidity a little bit. I
(26:45):
asked him if that's the secret to chocolates appeal, the
intensity of flavor, and he says, well, yeah, but don't
forget the psychoactives. Chocolates feel good. It doesn't give you
a just gets your heart going a little bit. It
makes you feel good. Sixty and neuro transferters, they all
make you feel good. So it's a it's a dopamine
bad right the th and there. It's like you you
(27:08):
eat chocolate, you feel good. There's a reason that people
think that because it works. Neurotransmitters are just the molecules
that the neurons in your brain use to communicate to think,
and the ones in chocolate, like dopamine, just happened to
be the ones your brain uses to think deep happy thoughts.
And that brings me back to the ancient Maya and Aztec.
(27:30):
To them, chocolate was sacred. It wasn't just a latte
of the four hundreds. It was their way of coming
into harmony with the universe, with the cacao goddess, with
their own ancestors, and they always drank it. But why
that question had been kicking around my brain for months.
The Maya and Aztec were perfectly capable of eating their
(27:50):
chocolate in solid form, and yet they never did. Why
Is there something about drinking the stuff that changes the experience,
that maybe brings the god a little bit closer. I
knew Rich was the guy to ask, because that's his
other specialty. While one hand pursues chocolate in its most
artistic and impossible forms, the other is obsessed with chocolate
(28:12):
that has no form at all. I've done a lot
of research on how people basically help people originally made
drinking chocolate, you know, see all next, going back about
six thousand years probably, And so we serve it pretty
much the same way. This kind of similar spices a
little bit of you know, we use Central American chili's
um and we serve it very frothy, and then you're
(28:33):
pouring it from on high into bowls. So this is
about of authentics that can make this step no dary
in this It's hardly sweeten it, just it's a mostly
early chocolate. We use Karagua and Calabash. Bulls were pretty
traditional and that's not really patrical for us. Sorrow Bulls
have our logowner made by a local product. People like it.
(28:56):
The cool thing about the bowls. You can't drink a
bowl without paying attention. You're looking into the ball. So
Rich came to this inside after quietly observing people in
his cafe. But we learned early on here that people
would come in and they'd be busy. People have things undermined.
But when you pick up a ball, you have to stop.
(29:17):
We had these two guys, they were obviously lawyers, and
they took over a table and they had papers everywhere.
They would be talking and talking, and then we get quiet.
You look and they both pick up their bulls and
they would drink and be like fifteen seconds of nothing,
and then you go back to work. And we realized that,
you know, that's the reason that works. We see our
tea now and you know we sort of coffee and
balls because you're part of One of our goals is
(29:38):
to take people out of their normal life to make
them pay attention. So I try it. Rich hands me
a simple pottery bowl filled with frothy chocolate, and I
retreat to a corner table. I blow a window into
the froth to reveal the thick, brown liquid, and for
the first time I realized that when they drink a
(29:59):
gourd of chocolate, every mine, every Amazonian must think, Hey,
this stuff looks just like my river. It's like they're
drinking the lifeblood of the rainforest, and in a sense
they are. I sipp the chocolate and let the aromatics
of the Amazon fill my sinuses, and for a moment,
(30:19):
I'm back there, the ancient trees, old trunks falling, new
ones rising, the thick rivers spilling over the land, the
frothing biology. I keep sipping now. The neurotransmitters are seeping
into my consciousness, softening the edges of the new England
winter outside. Just for a moment, time stands still, and
(30:44):
the hot jungle rises. Out of my bowl. There's an
echo of ayahuasca on the periphery, a sheen of colors
merging into a brown vortex of oneness, and I just
sit with it for a while. I don't know how long,
an hour, a second, and then of course time snaps back.
(31:08):
The bowl is empty, an existence flows on. Thank you
for listening to the show again. If you want to
(31:28):
get a taste of some Wild Chocolate. Head to Stetler
Dash Chocolate dot Com link in the show notes. Wild
Chocolate is a Kaleidoscope production with I Heart podcast hosted
(31:48):
and reported by me Rowan Jacobson and produced by Shane
McKeon at Nice Marmatt Media. Edited by Kate Osborne and
my Guest out of Kudor. Sound design and mixing by Soundboard.
Original music composition by Spencer Stevenson, a k a Botany
production help from Baheeny Shorty from My Heart. Our executive
producers are Katrina Norvelle and Nikki Etre. Special thanks to
(32:10):
Laura Mayor, Costaslinos Ozwalash and Aaron Kaufman, Will Pearson, codel Burn,
Bob Pittman, Daria Daniel and the team at Stetler who
are helping us make a very special chocolate of our own.
That's right, We're working with Louisa at Others to protect
the rainforest and make delicious Amazonian chocolate. Visit www Dot
(32:30):
Stetler Dash Chocolate dot com to taste it for yourself.
That's www Dot Stetler dash Chocolate dot com. And if
you want to hear more of this type of content,
Nothing is more important to the creators here at Kaleidoscope
than subscribers, ratings, and reviews. Please spread the love wherever
you listen.
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