December 22, 2022 • 38 mins
In this new series from Kaleidoscope co-founder Mangesh Hattikudur, we journey into the weird, wonderful world of astrology with a little help from: Mangesh's mom, a science writer, a famous musician, and one very sneaky author! But when an ominous prediction suddenly comes true, his life turns upside down.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approved stoning sensitive listeners. Take care. So here's the
(00:36):
confession I'm going to make right at the top of
the show. I don't believe in astrology, but astrology keeps
happening to me. Now. Everyone says podcasting is the most
visual medium, So I made you a slide show to
try to explain. This is the real skyline drive. It's
in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep, it's
(00:59):
one of the many places I would drive to look
at the stars. This is the moon. It rules our emotions.
This is mercury in retrograde. You know it because it
makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kathu. They're important
and mischievous nodes in basic astrology. They're prominent in Donald
Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris Hilton. This
(01:22):
is me. I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine.
This is the sky at the time I was born.
In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are
some other Truss polepod I told KOMENI Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler,
Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all truses has made
me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are
(01:45):
my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every
morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea
and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil.
It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling in the
middle of this recording, and I think goes climbing back,
give me a club. This is India when I was
growing up, where it's like yoga and meditation and turmeric
(02:08):
and astrology. These are words that were part of my
Indian life, but they weren't a part of my going
to school fitting into America one. But now now everyone
has an opinion about it. I'm a Gemini, which I've
heard is bad. I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive. That's
definitely true. I'm a tourist. I find it starts to
be beautiful. It sucks that we can't see you start
(02:29):
in New York because all the lights. I know a
few people who are kind of into it, and they
like ask, yo, did you see the horoscope today? And
I'm like, nah, bro, not really I'm not worried about
what the horoscope says. I know a lot of people
don't believe in it, but why can't people just believe
in things for fun, like it doesn't have to be
backed up by anything. If you believe in fantasy football,
why can't you believe in astrology. A few months ago,
(02:49):
my friends and I sit out to make this show
about astrology. We wanted to run around the city and
have some wild adventures and understand why after so many millennia,
people still looked the sky for answers. This is an
astrologer I met in Queens. He promised me, you're going
to dig this show. I think if you do your
own show, it will become a super hit, no doubt
(03:10):
about it. This is a graph of how much I
believed in astrology before our session. Not that much. This
is a graph of how much I started believing thirty
minutes later when something horrible he said came true. That's
why I asked again, from the time he started a
couple of years back. Still now, the situation doesn't look good.
(03:33):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India, where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumb print and the time you're going to
walk through that door. This is me walking through that door.
(03:57):
I'm Muggy's Fatigular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive,
(04:38):
chapter one. Leave your acts at home. So I figured,
you know, I do need to sown an astrologer. And
there are a bunch of astrologers on the Upper West
Side who have set up these Wait so you're looking
for an astrologer to sewn. Oh yeah, well I need
(05:01):
to check it off the list. I've got a hundred,
you know already, This reporting and starting off weirder than
I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer day
and I'm standing here with A. J. Jacobs. I am
an author and a journalist and a pisces in addition
to being a pisces or technically on the cusp of
pisces and aries. AJ's a friend and he's one of
(05:21):
my favorite writers. I've come to meet him in this
neighborhood because in two thousand and seven, he wrote a
New York Times bestseller called The Year of Living Biblically.
The book was a phenomenon. It came out in multiple languages,
There were magazine and TV pieces about it. It was
such a big deal that at one point Marlon Waynes
was lined up to play AJ in the Network TV version.
(05:42):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible, so that man
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blend.
(06:03):
Giving up polyconton blends is just one of the hardships
Aga endured in the Navy journalism. He also grew a
massive beard, shoved a wild birds so he could steal
its egg and say a prayer on it. And he
followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt
to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided
that to fully appreciate the Bible, you actually had to
(06:24):
stone people who committed these abominations, and the abominations include adultery,
breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all
sort of lumped together. Just the fact that he decided
to stone someone was a shock to me. I mean,
Aj is one of the nicest people I know, but
(06:46):
that's how committed he was. I didn't want to go
to jail for assault. I just wanted to check it
off my list, you know, stone and astrologer check. So
I walked by this astrologer on the street and just
very subtly dropped the pebble so that it landed on
her shoe, kind of a drive by stoning. And I
(07:08):
was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice because I
just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's
going on? Why did you do that? And so I
had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible.
I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not
think it's funny. She was pissed. She started yelling at me, like,
(07:29):
f you go to f and hell, I was rattled.
Even if you're trying to stone someone in modern day
using pebbles, people don't like it. Well that's a lesson,
that's a takeaway. Rule Number one don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
(07:51):
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually
makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk
about how accurate of fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astrocurse can make you bald? Because even if the show
(08:15):
makes me look silly, like, I don't want to get
disinvited from a family wedding because I said something that
hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts stock
in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads and
things like how do you tell a story delicately where
you're not offending people but still engaging with all the
subject I had that exact dilemma when I was writing
(08:39):
The Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in
as an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice
is go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with
an agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology.
You're just an explorer, So go in like with no
(09:02):
ax leave your axes at home. That I think I
can do. After the break, we talked to an astrologer
who doesn't believe in astrology, take a subway ride to
Queens and hear this from my mom. I felt like
a jusie though. Chapter two, just for funds is the
(09:42):
phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through the phone? Pattern? AI?
The algorithm? That is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty,
one of my friends shot me a text linking to
this video of Channing Tatum. The actor had uploaded it
himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But
when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he
freaked out, are you listening through my phone? And then
(10:03):
just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff?
You know what? Pattern? People? You should just call me.
I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know
if he ever got his answers, but what I do
know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture
capital investor told The New York Times that the app
costar this pattern competitor had the potential to be a
(10:27):
twenty four billion dollar business, claiming he could one day
be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is as
big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if my
company should get into the act. After all, it feels
so obvious that I don't know even a nine year
old could see the potential. So I decided to try
the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby. Hey Ny,
(10:50):
why let me do this closet? I brought you to
this closet because I wanted to pitch you on an
astrology app? Are you ready for it? Why is that?
What do you think about astrology? It's dumb? Oh gosh, Well,
maybe you're not the right person of her. But the
reason I came to you is because you actually have
(11:11):
a bank. You spend only my money. You seem to
hoard all your money, and you keep all of Henry's
money as well, which you charge them a small fee for.
So I thought you might be the savvagest person in
this family. Is it okay if I pitch you an
astrology app? Okay? So here's my case for it. These
aren't your grandmother's horse ghosts. Right, they're talking to you
(11:32):
in this very fresh and fun way. They're up to
the minute with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they
have a chat feature where astrologers will chat with you
live about your birth charts. Right, and then by twenty nineteen,
right like you could see astrology or starting to take
over Bumble, the dating app. They start allowing you to
(11:52):
sort your matches by their birth signs. So like you
could say, like I only want to date toruses or
I only want to date Geminiis or whatever. In astrology
in twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't tell
(12:12):
whether you're serious or not, but apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(12:33):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app. What do you think? Oh, I'm
spending oh my money on a skateboard, not on you Okay, Well, so, Rube,
what type of business would you invest in? Bubble? Okay?
(13:03):
Chapter three, Truth and Poetry. When you go out with
a recorder in hand, it's interesting to see who'll talk
on tape. We found scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't
talk about their interest in astrology to us because they
were afraid of losing their jobs. We found PhDs and
(13:25):
postdocs who are worried that if they talk at all
to our podcasts, even to say that astrology was nonsense,
they would face professional repercussions. I mean, it is insanity
what a lightning rod astrology can be. But luckily we
found Jamie Green. My grandfather showed me a little half
of a peanut that had the German in it, and
(13:46):
he said, that's going to become a plant. And it
was just things like that that got me interested in
the world, which is the same as being interested in science.
Jamie is a celebrated science writer and I'm Sagittarius, although
you would not know it from looking at anything about
my life. I've got some planet in Capricorn that explains
(14:07):
why I'm not an impulsive adventurer. She has a new
book coming out called The Possibility of Life, and she's
co editor of the annual Best American Science and Nature
writing volumes, And whether it's chatting about her garden or
the way we perceive constellations, her capacity for wonder is
incredible and infectious. But perhaps what I love most about
(14:30):
Jamie was how she clarified that science and astrology don't
actually have to be at odds with one another, that
we don't need science to disprove astrology. Not that she
thinks astrology is a science exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy,
astrology doesn't hold a lot of meaning because it's all
(14:51):
very human centric. From the point of view of looking
at the stars from Earth, the stars are light years apart.
They have no real relation to each other except in
our minds. But that relationship, the one we make up
while looking up at the stars, that means something, or
it can mean something if you want it to. It's
(15:13):
like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And
I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that it's
for you to take from it what you need. And
like we don't think it's anti science to say a
poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive
is when people say that astrology is a science and
(15:34):
has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no
it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true.
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me. And it's something
(15:55):
my friend Pete also said when I talk to him,
Pete Steel is, well, it's complicated. So like even though
I was like a semi successful like musician, I was like,
I need to make money somehow, like right now, Like
what other skills do I happen? Oh? I do astrology.
T is a rock star, like a real rock star.
(16:18):
He used to be in the Walkman, that massive seminal
indie rock band, and yes, his backup career was professional astrology.
When he was younger, he trained with this big famous
grew He was living in his guesthouse and that's where
(16:40):
he learned to read star charts. You would take him
back to him and he would say like, no, it's
the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like you're wrong, you know,
And then he kind of in very traditional style, like
yell at the apprentice sort of thing, ung Fu master, right,
a very very karate kid kind of feeling. Right, said,
(17:02):
here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it. It's this art to me,
and I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like
my whole being, Like, that's what I care about. What
he believes really is in a more vivid reality, a
(17:24):
kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and I
both spent formative years in India, and we have a
certain comfort in the magical. If you read like a
hundred years of Solitude or something like that, world of
like this kind of magical Colombia. You know, it's like
that felt very similar in a lot of ways to
how we were raised. Magical explanations have been woven throughout
(17:53):
my life, like why was my family's little community in
India so well off a century ago? You could say
it's because of luck or global economics. You could say
it's because when the civil war was happening in the US,
England actually needed more sources of cotton to replace all
the cotton that the US had been producing. In my family,
(18:15):
they just happened to be in the right place to
manage mills and plant cotton on their land. Or you
could tell the story in a way that's way, way
more magical, that a great great ancestor had this powerful
vision from a goddess that if he chanted a simple
string of prayers every single night, and he taught all
his children to sing it, and they taught all their children,
(18:38):
his people would be protected for years. And for most
of my life, I only knew that second story Champai
Masla ma lu Majia maslai ja Jakovambama by oh yeah,
(19:01):
that chapter four mopeds and miniskirts. Arranged marriage has always
been this thing that's hard for me to talk about.
When I first moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary
school had all these questions for me about being Indian, right,
like does your family sleep on a bed of nails?
(19:22):
Can you charm snakes? Just you know, these things they'd
seen on cartoons, And arranged marriage was just another one
of these questions I'd have to field, except this one
actually bothered me more because this time I'd have to
admit that, yes, my parents did have an arranged marriage,
and then I'd have to explain that The thing is,
(19:43):
everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly paired
off when they were nine years old and then sent
away to work and have kids, and that isn't true.
It's like my parents' situation was a little more like
pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family,
your parents want you to marry into another good family,
(20:04):
so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people,
and if you like each other, they kind of fast
track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since
this was already super hard to explain, I just left
out the part of astrology, which also plays a big
role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like,
(20:27):
I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all,
it's it's a weird thing to have to admit you
only exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain.
Tell me about how your marriage was arranged. Oh that's funny, okay.
(20:48):
Umish's aunt shouted. The cup she came to see Amma,
because she'd heard that you know I was available. I
guess this story starts, of course, with two families dusting
off their kid's horse copes and handing them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack. So they
matched it, and it matched perfectly. The traditional Indian matching
(21:09):
system is way more complicated than just saying is you
a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage is supposed to be
a union of souls, so the astrologers inspect all the
vagaries of your chart and pressure test everything, like your personalities,
your feelings about class and status, even how a couple's
health will be affected by one another. It's all on
(21:30):
the scale of thirty six points, and any match under
eighteen points shouldn't be considered. But anything over thirty two,
that's something you want to lock down immediately. My badness
want to make sure that the man and matted did
not yell let me, She asked the astrologer. You know,
how is this nature? So the astrologer to Dama that
Umish was a gently creature, you know, never lost system.
(21:53):
But so this part is one hundred percent crue. I've
only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times,
and most of that was when our dog Lupine would
just race out of the house and he would run
after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese,
just waving it to try to tempt her back. And
it always worked because she was super greedy. But one
(22:16):
fault he'd have has never come on time to the
table to have dinner. And we thought it was a
big joke and that came true. We couldn't believe that
astrology could be that powerful to tell a quirk like that.
Wasn't there something else with a mother in law? The
mother in law, Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
(22:37):
Why is that? I really don't know. They said was
something to do with the stars. And if I had
a mother in law it wouldn't go ahead. So here
who had lost his mother when he was under a year.
I think we just about to hear so it was perfect.
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an aya or a nanny,
(23:01):
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my
(23:24):
grandmam was working really hard to set her up, my
mom was not keen to get married. I wasn't ready.
I was still studying and it was in my final
year for master's studying linguistics. I didn't want to give
that up and didn't want to get married that fast. Yeah,
so I felt like a Josie Cowl. I wasn't happy,
(23:46):
and things were really moving faster than I ever expected,
so I'd said, I'm going to foil this. So, just
to get the picture, a typical woman hoping for a
match would be waiting, sitting by her parents, dressed in
a sorry or something traditional like making a big show
of what a quiet and obedient wife they could be.
(24:07):
And instead had a miniskirton and I had Lambretta. I
wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late, Like
my mom is the most punctual person I know. She
gets at the airport three hours ahead of time, and
that since I was a kid, So she's clearly trying
to tank this thing and my hair, I'd let it
(24:28):
loose and curly. Wasn't done. But instead, you know, said, oh,
that's no problem. We love more than girls. What type
of woman do you think Mama was expecting to present.
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
(24:49):
animal lover. But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so
she was sure to tell my dad's family this. I
had no interest in cooking anyway. Despite my mom's lack
of interest in the kitchen and her dramatic attempt to
topple this whole affair, she somehow still won my dad's
family over. So I must say, here's the deal. Let
(25:12):
him write to you. If you don't like him, it's fine.
He was a charming writer, he was a charming director.
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person, you know, he
looked so vulnerable that they said, oh, this is great.
I can handle him. My parents don't have a perfect marriage,
but there are lots of wonderful bits things that make
(25:33):
me think those thirty two points meet in something like
once when they were young, they visited Paris, and they
went to dinner at this fancy restaurant with a ballroom,
and an orchestra started playing, and no one was dancing crickets.
So my dad just whisked my mom onto the dance
floor and then slowly everyone in the place joins in.
(25:55):
And when my parents went back to their table, the
band leader had actually sent them this gorgeous spottle of
brandy to say thank you for livening the place up
and forgetting everyone dancing. I mean, if astrology can promise
you those sorts of scenes, it's like who wouldn't listen.
Of course, astrology has done damage in the family too.
Here's my mom telling me about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
(26:18):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him. Who's your cousin, Nana Nana from
Manglo Nalia, So there was a danger of his brother
dying if the girl married Nana. The astrologers have predicted
that if the couple went through with the marriage, even
though their horoscopes matched, it could lead to Nanu's brother's death.
(26:41):
I mean, who wants that on their hands, even if
it's putting your chances for love at risk. So to
this day he stood a bachelor. Really, Oh well, what
do you think about that? It's a shame. Yeah, they
could have found other girls. He just was dejected. He said,
normal goods, normal horoscopes sisted about you. That's heartbreaking, it
(27:06):
really is. Yeah. After chatting with my mom, two things
occurred to me. First, the chasm between the way Americans
and Indians use astrology. That only felt wider, like no
(27:28):
app was going to tell you to quit your NBA,
to marry some guy in America, or to break it
off with this girl because it could bring bad luck
or death to another family member, like the starkness of
the way Indian astrology can be used to control lives.
It felt so dark, but also pretty intriguing, like it
(27:48):
only made me want to dig in more. And the
second thing I remembered is this piece of advice AJ
gave me about really embracing the show. I think you
gotta go all in, So you got to hire an
astrologer to help you with the show. I figure out
when you should start, when should the air date be,
(28:09):
Who should you hire to help you? Should it be
a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go for it, because
that's one way to test it. It's to see does
it work for you. So I decided to find an
Indian astrologer and solve both problems. I could lean into
my Indian side and also have some fun with it.
(28:29):
But what I didn't know was that that visit was
going to change my life. Chapter five we go to Queens.
(29:01):
On April ninth, I headed to Kleeans to meet an astrologer.
He's someone my friend and showrunner for the show, Mary
recommended that I reached out to, and coincidentally, he happened
to be an astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used. Hey,
ad is another rational type. He's kind of this white
shoe lawyer, masters from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer
(29:23):
in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate.
So other's actually wanted to see him again. So I
took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rocketsh.
Kumar and we entered his white wood frame office. From
the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house,
but when you opened the door, you immediately sensed these
(29:44):
temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at
the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and
there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall.
And then I turned into this tiny room with a desk,
and it had a giant stack of books on it
with a little black laptop on top. Looking around, I
(30:07):
realize how fun this is. I'm here on this field
trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm so
ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience.
Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his emails,
and then, using the information I'd sent him a few
(30:28):
days before, he pulls up my chart and turns on
his recorder. Songs. Looking at it choked me first. Nineteen
seventy nine, go before in the afternoon in summer New Jersie.
You're born on a Tuesday, You'll have the sign cancer rising.
I've got to say I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kamar dives in. It seems like he's
(30:50):
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix.
And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do, is asked doctor Khmar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
dates for my podcast, or if you could protect something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
(31:12):
some questions for me. So how's word been since January
twenty twenty. That's when I decided to quit my job. Okay,
so either you would have quit your job or a
job would have quit you one of the things. Because
the time was such, because it impacts you. It's so ironic.
(31:35):
You come here today, who days from now? You plue
thirteenth onwards. Thereafter a new chapter of your life begins,
another beginning of your life, which will be very good.
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth in my notebook, and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kahmar continues with more work
(31:59):
related things. He says foreign travel is in the cards,
which is super exciting, and that I should wear an
emerald to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I
make a note to do an episode on gems and
Vedic astrology. Down the line. But the best part is
that doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will
go really well. So it's very profound, So you'll make
(32:23):
it big in life, You'll be very successful in everything,
because your planets show that. I'm so excited about all
this tape, getting a start date for the show, the
talk of gems, this prediction that everything might go well,
that I'm caught off guard by doctor Kamar's next question,
which comes out of nowhere, get to be something about
your father, like what he did for work, or it
(32:47):
still does. He's a chemical engineer. Okay, he's retired. He's
ill right now listening back, I don't know why I
mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamara hadn't asked, and
maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully, like
I thought I should let him know. Years ago my
(33:09):
dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed through
that treatment and he's been cancer free for a while now.
But recently he broke a rib reaching for something, which
was odd, and then he also had the slight boost
and some liver counts which his doctor told him not
to worry about. Because that's why I asked again from
(33:30):
the time he started a couple of years back. Still,
now the situation doesn't look good for father. There is
a risk to father. This thing about my dad. It
was a throwaway line in the middle of an hour
and a half interview. I don't even know how closely
I was listening. By the time we hit stop on
the recorder, I was thrilled. I had over an hour
(33:51):
of material and I was cutting tape my head as
I was asking questions, and I don't know, I felt good.
I thanked doctor Khmar for his time, and I let
him run off to feed his mother lunch, which he
does every day, and my cousin and I walked off
to get fresh dosas and Italy's that one of the
many canteens that dot this area of Jackson Heights. I
(34:13):
try to thank you, and then twenty minutes into chatting
and laughing and debating what's real about astrology and what
isn't and how can you even tell right? I received
this email from my dad. It read we just received
the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately, the news is
(34:38):
not as good as it could be. We'll talk to
doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur and let you know as
soon as we can study result diffuse metastatic disease throughout
the liver and bones from unknown primary. The cancer had
metastasized through my dad's liver and bones. I don't know
(35:01):
what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology. I don't
care about emeralds or whether any of this feels embarrassing anymore.
My stomach drops. I can't finish my chie I don't
know what to write, so I just tap out. I'm
so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit.
(35:24):
And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I
get to Atlanta next week? On Skyline Drive, we take
(35:52):
a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who secretly
uses astrology behind your clients backs, and hang out with
a seventy four year old who just wants to know
am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
(36:14):
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by me
Mangish Hatikular With a ton of help, like so much
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer Mitra Bunshah. He produced this whole
(36:35):
thing despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Ltto
is our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip
to India with me. This episode was mixed by my
pal at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola
Mango is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between
is courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshu Suri and Peter Matthew Bauer.
(36:59):
If you want to hear or we made you a mixtape,
just check out the show notes. Additional production and research
support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Chivirao Lucas, Riley
Bethan Macaluzo, Aditya bus Throur, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs.
There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshee and
(37:20):
my cousin Arguin Buckshee, who helped me out of a
giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I
harp On, my good pals Nicky Etour, and Katrina Norvelle.
This show would not have happened without the support of
my friends at Kaleidoscope. Starting with my good pal Oswolsian,
who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.
(37:40):
Also Kate Osbourne for her spot on notes, cost Us
Linos for his encouragement, and Fahini Shory for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour. All
my friends Heart including Bob Connall will Carry, Nathan Jason,
(38:03):
Jerry my New York and Atlanta Cruz. There are too
many to name. Also Shanta and Sarab, my family in India,
my family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who
read this episode's warning check out his shows ridiculous history
and stuff they don't want you to know. And just
one last thank you to my Amah and my dad
(38:23):
is Lolita and Amir Tatigudur, who I thank my lucky
stars for Thank you so much for listening. Dumdum dimdimdumdumdimdumdum
dim DoD
Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,
arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Bible approved stoning sensitive listeners. Take care. So here's the
(00:36):
confession I'm going to make right at the top of
the show. I don't believe in astrology, but astrology keeps
happening to me. Now. Everyone says podcasting is the most
visual medium, So I made you a slide show to
try to explain. This is the real skyline drive. It's
in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep, it's
(00:59):
one of the many places I would drive to look
at the stars. This is the moon. It rules our emotions.
This is mercury in retrograde. You know it because it
makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kathu. They're important
and mischievous nodes in basic astrology. They're prominent in Donald
Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris Hilton. This
(01:22):
is me. I was born May first, nineteen seventy nine.
This is the sky at the time I was born.
In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are
some other Truss polepod I told KOMENI Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler,
Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all truses has made
me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are
(01:45):
my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every
morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea
and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil.
It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling in the
middle of this recording, and I think goes climbing back,
give me a club. This is India when I was
growing up, where it's like yoga and meditation and turmeric
(02:08):
and astrology. These are words that were part of my
Indian life, but they weren't a part of my going
to school fitting into America one. But now now everyone
has an opinion about it. I'm a Gemini, which I've
heard is bad. I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive. That's
definitely true. I'm a tourist. I find it starts to
be beautiful. It sucks that we can't see you start
(02:29):
in New York because all the lights. I know a
few people who are kind of into it, and they
like ask, yo, did you see the horoscope today? And
I'm like, nah, bro, not really I'm not worried about
what the horoscope says. I know a lot of people
don't believe in it, but why can't people just believe
in things for fun, like it doesn't have to be
backed up by anything. If you believe in fantasy football,
why can't you believe in astrology. A few months ago,
(02:49):
my friends and I sit out to make this show
about astrology. We wanted to run around the city and
have some wild adventures and understand why after so many millennia,
people still looked the sky for answers. This is an
astrologer I met in Queens. He promised me, you're going
to dig this show. I think if you do your
own show, it will become a super hit, no doubt
(03:10):
about it. This is a graph of how much I
believed in astrology before our session. Not that much. This
is a graph of how much I started believing thirty
minutes later when something horrible he said came true. That's
why I asked again, from the time he started a
couple of years back. Still now, the situation doesn't look good.
(03:33):
This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
in India, where your fortune is waiting for you. It
was written centuries ago and put on a shelf, and
the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
by your thumb print and the time you're going to
walk through that door. This is me walking through that door.
(03:57):
I'm Muggy's Fatigular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline Drive,
(04:38):
chapter one. Leave your acts at home. So I figured,
you know, I do need to sown an astrologer. And
there are a bunch of astrologers on the Upper West
Side who have set up these Wait so you're looking
for an astrologer to sewn. Oh yeah, well I need
(05:01):
to check it off the list. I've got a hundred,
you know already, This reporting and starting off weirder than
I thought. It's ten o'clock on a bright summer day
and I'm standing here with A. J. Jacobs. I am
an author and a journalist and a pisces in addition
to being a pisces or technically on the cusp of
pisces and aries. AJ's a friend and he's one of
(05:21):
my favorite writers. I've come to meet him in this
neighborhood because in two thousand and seven, he wrote a
New York Times bestseller called The Year of Living Biblically.
The book was a phenomenon. It came out in multiple languages,
There were magazine and TV pieces about it. It was
such a big deal that at one point Marlon Waynes
was lined up to play AJ in the Network TV version.
(05:42):
The premise was that I would follow all the rules
of the Bible as literally as possible, so that man
the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics, so I
had to get rid of all of my polycotton blend.
(06:03):
Giving up polyconton blends is just one of the hardships
Aga endured in the Navy journalism. He also grew a
massive beard, shoved a wild birds so he could steal
its egg and say a prayer on it. And he
followed seven hundred other Biblical rules literally in an attempt
to understand religion. And somewhere along the way he decided
that to fully appreciate the Bible, you actually had to
(06:24):
stone people who committed these abominations, and the abominations include adultery,
breaking the Sabbath, but also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all
sort of lumped together. Just the fact that he decided
to stone someone was a shock to me. I mean,
Aj is one of the nicest people I know, but
(06:46):
that's how committed he was. I didn't want to go
to jail for assault. I just wanted to check it
off my list, you know, stone and astrologer check. So
I walked by this astrologer on the street and just
very subtly dropped the pebble so that it landed on
her shoe, kind of a drive by stoning. And I
(07:08):
was thinking, she's probably not even gonna notice because I
just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's
going on? Why did you do that? And so I
had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible.
I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not
think it's funny. She was pissed. She started yelling at me, like,
(07:29):
f you go to f and hell, I was rattled.
Even if you're trying to stone someone in modern day
using pebbles, people don't like it. Well that's a lesson,
that's a takeaway. Rule Number one don't stone an astrologer.
It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
(07:51):
The reason I traveled all the way out here to
meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
the show, because doing the show in astrology it actually
makes me nervous, like, is there a way to talk
about how accurate of fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Or is there a way to joke about whether an
astrocurse can make you bald? Because even if the show
(08:15):
makes me look silly, like, I don't want to get
disinvited from a family wedding because I said something that
hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts stock
in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads and
things like how do you tell a story delicately where
you're not offending people but still engaging with all the
subject I had that exact dilemma when I was writing
(08:39):
The Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in
as an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice
is go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with
an agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology.
You're just an explorer, So go in like with no
(09:02):
ax leave your axes at home. That I think I
can do. After the break, we talked to an astrologer
who doesn't believe in astrology, take a subway ride to
Queens and hear this from my mom. I felt like
a jusie though. Chapter two, just for funds is the
(09:42):
phone listening? Is that? Are you listening through the phone? Pattern? AI?
The algorithm? That is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty,
one of my friends shot me a text linking to
this video of Channing Tatum. The actor had uploaded it
himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But
when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he
freaked out, are you listening through my phone? And then
(10:03):
just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of? And stuff?
You know what? Pattern? People? You should just call me.
I need answers right now, poor Channing. I don't know
if he ever got his answers, but what I do
know is that astrology is ubiquitous and lucrative. One venture
capital investor told The New York Times that the app
costar this pattern competitor had the potential to be a
(10:27):
twenty four billion dollar business, claiming he could one day
be as big as Spotify. But if astrology is as
big an opportunity as everyone's saying, I'm wondering if my
company should get into the act. After all, it feels
so obvious that I don't know even a nine year
old could see the potential. So I decided to try
the pitch out on my nine year old Ruby. Hey Ny,
(10:50):
why let me do this closet? I brought you to
this closet because I wanted to pitch you on an
astrology app? Are you ready for it? Why is that?
What do you think about astrology? It's dumb? Oh gosh, Well,
maybe you're not the right person of her. But the
reason I came to you is because you actually have
(11:11):
a bank. You spend only my money. You seem to
hoard all your money, and you keep all of Henry's
money as well, which you charge them a small fee for.
So I thought you might be the savvagest person in
this family. Is it okay if I pitch you an
astrology app? Okay? So here's my case for it. These
aren't your grandmother's horse ghosts. Right, they're talking to you
(11:32):
in this very fresh and fun way. They're up to
the minute with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they
have a chat feature where astrologers will chat with you
live about your birth charts. Right, and then by twenty nineteen,
right like you could see astrology or starting to take
over Bumble, the dating app. They start allowing you to
(11:52):
sort your matches by their birth signs. So like you
could say, like I only want to date toruses or
I only want to date Geminiis or whatever. In astrology
in twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
What do you think about that? Mind, I can't tell
(12:12):
whether you're serious or not, but apps made forty million
dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Both of those searches hit five year peaks on Google.
So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
(12:33):
had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue
to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
in my astrology app. What do you think? Oh, I'm
spending oh my money on a skateboard, not on you Okay, Well, so, Rube,
what type of business would you invest in? Bubble? Okay?
(13:03):
Chapter three, Truth and Poetry. When you go out with
a recorder in hand, it's interesting to see who'll talk
on tape. We found scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't
talk about their interest in astrology to us because they
were afraid of losing their jobs. We found PhDs and
(13:25):
postdocs who are worried that if they talk at all
to our podcasts, even to say that astrology was nonsense,
they would face professional repercussions. I mean, it is insanity
what a lightning rod astrology can be. But luckily we
found Jamie Green. My grandfather showed me a little half
of a peanut that had the German in it, and
(13:46):
he said, that's going to become a plant. And it
was just things like that that got me interested in
the world, which is the same as being interested in science.
Jamie is a celebrated science writer and I'm Sagittarius, although
you would not know it from looking at anything about
my life. I've got some planet in Capricorn that explains
(14:07):
why I'm not an impulsive adventurer. She has a new
book coming out called The Possibility of Life, and she's
co editor of the annual Best American Science and Nature
writing volumes, And whether it's chatting about her garden or
the way we perceive constellations, her capacity for wonder is
incredible and infectious. But perhaps what I love most about
(14:30):
Jamie was how she clarified that science and astrology don't
actually have to be at odds with one another, that
we don't need science to disprove astrology. Not that she
thinks astrology is a science exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy,
astrology doesn't hold a lot of meaning because it's all
(14:51):
very human centric. From the point of view of looking
at the stars from Earth, the stars are light years apart.
They have no real relation to each other except in
our minds. But that relationship, the one we make up
while looking up at the stars, that means something, or
it can mean something if you want it to. It's
(15:13):
like a much more eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And
I don't mean that disparagingly. I just think that it's
for you to take from it what you need. And
like we don't think it's anti science to say a
poem is true. I think that's where science gets defensive
is when people say that astrology is a science and
(15:34):
has physical roots in the stars. It's like, oh no
it doesn't, but it's true the way a poem is true.
I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
is true. That feels right to me. And it's something
(15:55):
my friend Pete also said when I talk to him,
Pete Steel is, well, it's complicated. So like even though
I was like a semi successful like musician, I was like,
I need to make money somehow, like right now, Like
what other skills do I happen? Oh? I do astrology.
T is a rock star, like a real rock star.
(16:18):
He used to be in the Walkman, that massive seminal
indie rock band, and yes, his backup career was professional astrology.
When he was younger, he trained with this big famous
grew He was living in his guesthouse and that's where
(16:40):
he learned to read star charts. You would take him
back to him and he would say like, no, it's
the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Like you're wrong, you know,
And then he kind of in very traditional style, like
yell at the apprentice sort of thing, ung Fu master, right,
a very very karate kid kind of feeling. Right, said,
(17:02):
here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
he doesn't believe in it. It's this art to me,
and I don't mean that dismissively, like, but that's like
my whole being, Like, that's what I care about. What
he believes really is in a more vivid reality, a
(17:24):
kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and I
both spent formative years in India, and we have a
certain comfort in the magical. If you read like a
hundred years of Solitude or something like that, world of
like this kind of magical Colombia. You know, it's like
that felt very similar in a lot of ways to
how we were raised. Magical explanations have been woven throughout
(17:53):
my life, like why was my family's little community in
India so well off a century ago? You could say
it's because of luck or global economics. You could say
it's because when the civil war was happening in the US,
England actually needed more sources of cotton to replace all
the cotton that the US had been producing. In my family,
(18:15):
they just happened to be in the right place to
manage mills and plant cotton on their land. Or you
could tell the story in a way that's way, way
more magical, that a great great ancestor had this powerful
vision from a goddess that if he chanted a simple
string of prayers every single night, and he taught all
his children to sing it, and they taught all their children,
(18:38):
his people would be protected for years. And for most
of my life, I only knew that second story Champai
Masla ma lu Majia maslai ja Jakovambama by oh yeah,
(19:01):
that chapter four mopeds and miniskirts. Arranged marriage has always
been this thing that's hard for me to talk about.
When I first moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary
school had all these questions for me about being Indian, right,
like does your family sleep on a bed of nails?
(19:22):
Can you charm snakes? Just you know, these things they'd
seen on cartoons, And arranged marriage was just another one
of these questions I'd have to field, except this one
actually bothered me more because this time I'd have to
admit that, yes, my parents did have an arranged marriage,
and then I'd have to explain that The thing is,
(19:43):
everyone assumed my mom and dad were like forcibly paired
off when they were nine years old and then sent
away to work and have kids, and that isn't true.
It's like my parents' situation was a little more like
pride and prejudice. Like, you come from a good family,
your parents want you to marry into another good family,
(20:04):
so they set you up. They make introductions to certain people,
and if you like each other, they kind of fast
track the marriage or they make more introductions. But since
this was already super hard to explain, I just left
out the part of astrology, which also plays a big
role in the whole arranged marriage thing. It was like,
(20:27):
I don't know, just too difficult or embarrassing something. After all,
it's it's a weird thing to have to admit you
only exist because of astrology. But I'll let my mom explain.
Tell me about how your marriage was arranged. Oh that's funny, okay.
(20:48):
Umish's aunt shouted. The cup she came to see Amma,
because she'd heard that you know I was available. I
guess this story starts, of course, with two families dusting
off their kid's horse copes and handing them off to
a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack. So they
matched it, and it matched perfectly. The traditional Indian matching
(21:09):
system is way more complicated than just saying is you
a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage is supposed to be
a union of souls, so the astrologers inspect all the
vagaries of your chart and pressure test everything, like your personalities,
your feelings about class and status, even how a couple's
health will be affected by one another. It's all on
(21:30):
the scale of thirty six points, and any match under
eighteen points shouldn't be considered. But anything over thirty two,
that's something you want to lock down immediately. My badness
want to make sure that the man and matted did
not yell let me, She asked the astrologer. You know,
how is this nature? So the astrologer to Dama that
Umish was a gently creature, you know, never lost system.
(21:53):
But so this part is one hundred percent crue. I've
only ever heard my dad yell a handful of times,
and most of that was when our dog Lupine would
just race out of the house and he would run
after her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese,
just waving it to try to tempt her back. And
it always worked because she was super greedy. But one
(22:16):
fault he'd have has never come on time to the
table to have dinner. And we thought it was a
big joke and that came true. We couldn't believe that
astrology could be that powerful to tell a quirk like that.
Wasn't there something else with a mother in law? The
mother in law, Yes, they said that I would be
best for a boy that did not have a mother.
(22:37):
Why is that? I really don't know. They said was
something to do with the stars. And if I had
a mother in law it wouldn't go ahead. So here
who had lost his mother when he was under a year.
I think we just about to hear so it was perfect.
This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
accounts for everything. My dad had an aya or a nanny,
(23:01):
but he never had a mother. His life was a
series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
think about, but if his mom had survived, my parents
would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
of that. Anyway, back to my mom. Even though my
(23:24):
grandmam was working really hard to set her up, my
mom was not keen to get married. I wasn't ready.
I was still studying and it was in my final
year for master's studying linguistics. I didn't want to give
that up and didn't want to get married that fast. Yeah,
so I felt like a Josie Cowl. I wasn't happy,
(23:46):
and things were really moving faster than I ever expected,
so I'd said, I'm going to foil this. So, just
to get the picture, a typical woman hoping for a
match would be waiting, sitting by her parents, dressed in
a sorry or something traditional like making a big show
of what a quiet and obedient wife they could be.
(24:07):
And instead had a miniskirton and I had Lambretta. I
wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late, Like
my mom is the most punctual person I know. She
gets at the airport three hours ahead of time, and
that since I was a kid, So she's clearly trying
to tank this thing and my hair, I'd let it
(24:28):
loose and curly. Wasn't done. But instead, you know, said, oh,
that's no problem. We love more than girls. What type
of woman do you think Mama was expecting to present.
She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
(24:49):
animal lover. But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so
she was sure to tell my dad's family this. I
had no interest in cooking anyway. Despite my mom's lack
of interest in the kitchen and her dramatic attempt to
topple this whole affair, she somehow still won my dad's
family over. So I must say, here's the deal. Let
(25:12):
him write to you. If you don't like him, it's fine.
He was a charming writer, he was a charming director.
So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
and when they finally met in person, you know, he
looked so vulnerable that they said, oh, this is great.
I can handle him. My parents don't have a perfect marriage,
but there are lots of wonderful bits things that make
(25:33):
me think those thirty two points meet in something like
once when they were young, they visited Paris, and they
went to dinner at this fancy restaurant with a ballroom,
and an orchestra started playing, and no one was dancing crickets.
So my dad just whisked my mom onto the dance
floor and then slowly everyone in the place joins in.
(25:55):
And when my parents went back to their table, the
band leader had actually sent them this gorgeous spottle of
brandy to say thank you for livening the place up
and forgetting everyone dancing. I mean, if astrology can promise
you those sorts of scenes, it's like who wouldn't listen.
Of course, astrology has done damage in the family too.
Here's my mom telling me about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
(26:18):
My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
horoscope matched with him. Who's your cousin, Nana Nana from
Manglo Nalia, So there was a danger of his brother
dying if the girl married Nana. The astrologers have predicted
that if the couple went through with the marriage, even
though their horoscopes matched, it could lead to Nanu's brother's death.
(26:41):
I mean, who wants that on their hands, even if
it's putting your chances for love at risk. So to
this day he stood a bachelor. Really, Oh well, what
do you think about that? It's a shame. Yeah, they
could have found other girls. He just was dejected. He said,
normal goods, normal horoscopes sisted about you. That's heartbreaking, it
(27:06):
really is. Yeah. After chatting with my mom, two things
occurred to me. First, the chasm between the way Americans
and Indians use astrology. That only felt wider, like no
(27:28):
app was going to tell you to quit your NBA,
to marry some guy in America, or to break it
off with this girl because it could bring bad luck
or death to another family member, like the starkness of
the way Indian astrology can be used to control lives.
It felt so dark, but also pretty intriguing, like it
(27:48):
only made me want to dig in more. And the
second thing I remembered is this piece of advice AJ
gave me about really embracing the show. I think you
gotta go all in, So you got to hire an
astrologer to help you with the show. I figure out
when you should start, when should the air date be,
(28:09):
Who should you hire to help you? Should it be
a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go for it, because
that's one way to test it. It's to see does
it work for you. So I decided to find an
Indian astrologer and solve both problems. I could lean into
my Indian side and also have some fun with it.
(28:29):
But what I didn't know was that that visit was
going to change my life. Chapter five we go to Queens.
(29:01):
On April ninth, I headed to Kleeans to meet an astrologer.
He's someone my friend and showrunner for the show, Mary
recommended that I reached out to, and coincidentally, he happened
to be an astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used. Hey,
ad is another rational type. He's kind of this white
shoe lawyer, masters from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer
(29:23):
in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate.
So other's actually wanted to see him again. So I
took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rocketsh.
Kumar and we entered his white wood frame office. From
the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house,
but when you opened the door, you immediately sensed these
(29:44):
temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at
the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and
there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall.
And then I turned into this tiny room with a desk,
and it had a giant stack of books on it
with a little black laptop on top. Looking around, I
(30:07):
realize how fun this is. I'm here on this field
trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm so
ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience.
Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his emails,
and then, using the information I'd sent him a few
(30:28):
days before, he pulls up my chart and turns on
his recorder. Songs. Looking at it choked me first. Nineteen
seventy nine, go before in the afternoon in summer New Jersie.
You're born on a Tuesday, You'll have the sign cancer rising.
I've got to say I was a little surprised by
how quickly doctor Kamar dives in. It seems like he's
(30:50):
just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix.
And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
really want to do, is asked doctor Khmar about the show.
I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
dates for my podcast, or if you could protect something
about how many people would listen. But first he had
(31:12):
some questions for me. So how's word been since January
twenty twenty. That's when I decided to quit my job. Okay,
so either you would have quit your job or a
job would have quit you one of the things. Because
the time was such, because it impacts you. It's so ironic.
(31:35):
You come here today, who days from now? You plue
thirteenth onwards. Thereafter a new chapter of your life begins,
another beginning of your life, which will be very good.
This is what I came for. I write down April
thirteenth in my notebook, and I circle it big. Four
days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
started on my show. Doctor Kahmar continues with more work
(31:59):
related things. He says foreign travel is in the cards,
which is super exciting, and that I should wear an
emerald to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I
make a note to do an episode on gems and
Vedic astrology. Down the line. But the best part is
that doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will
go really well. So it's very profound, So you'll make
(32:23):
it big in life, You'll be very successful in everything,
because your planets show that. I'm so excited about all
this tape, getting a start date for the show, the
talk of gems, this prediction that everything might go well,
that I'm caught off guard by doctor Kamar's next question,
which comes out of nowhere, get to be something about
your father, like what he did for work, or it
(32:47):
still does. He's a chemical engineer. Okay, he's retired. He's
ill right now listening back, I don't know why I
mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamara hadn't asked, and
maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully, like
I thought I should let him know. Years ago my
(33:09):
dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed through
that treatment and he's been cancer free for a while now.
But recently he broke a rib reaching for something, which
was odd, and then he also had the slight boost
and some liver counts which his doctor told him not
to worry about. Because that's why I asked again from
(33:30):
the time he started a couple of years back. Still,
now the situation doesn't look good for father. There is
a risk to father. This thing about my dad. It
was a throwaway line in the middle of an hour
and a half interview. I don't even know how closely
I was listening. By the time we hit stop on
the recorder, I was thrilled. I had over an hour
(33:51):
of material and I was cutting tape my head as
I was asking questions, and I don't know, I felt good.
I thanked doctor Khmar for his time, and I let
him run off to feed his mother lunch, which he
does every day, and my cousin and I walked off
to get fresh dosas and Italy's that one of the
many canteens that dot this area of Jackson Heights. I
(34:13):
try to thank you, and then twenty minutes into chatting
and laughing and debating what's real about astrology and what
isn't and how can you even tell right? I received
this email from my dad. It read we just received
the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately, the news is
(34:38):
not as good as it could be. We'll talk to
doctor Thomas and doctor Shakur and let you know as
soon as we can study result diffuse metastatic disease throughout
the liver and bones from unknown primary. The cancer had
metastasized through my dad's liver and bones. I don't know
(35:01):
what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology. I don't
care about emeralds or whether any of this feels embarrassing anymore.
My stomach drops. I can't finish my chie I don't
know what to write, so I just tap out. I'm
so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a bit.
(35:24):
And all I'm thinking now is how fast can I
get to Atlanta next week? On Skyline Drive, we take
(35:52):
a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who secretly
uses astrology behind your clients backs, and hang out with
a seventy four year old who just wants to know
am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?
And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
(36:14):
you so much for listening. I have so many people
to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by me
Mangish Hatikular With a ton of help, like so much
help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
cat loving supervising producer Mitra Bunshah. He produced this whole
(36:35):
thing despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Ltto
is our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip
to India with me. This episode was mixed by my
pal at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola
Mango is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between
is courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshu Suri and Peter Matthew Bauer.
(36:59):
If you want to hear or we made you a mixtape,
just check out the show notes. Additional production and research
support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Chivirao Lucas, Riley
Bethan Macaluzo, Aditya bus Throur, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs.
There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshee and
(37:20):
my cousin Arguin Buckshee, who helped me out of a
giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I
harp On, my good pals Nicky Etour, and Katrina Norvelle.
This show would not have happened without the support of
my friends at Kaleidoscope. Starting with my good pal Oswolsian,
who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.
(37:40):
Also Kate Osbourne for her spot on notes, cost Us
Linos for his encouragement, and Fahini Shory for her delightful suggestions.
I also want to give a little special thanks to
all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour. All
my friends Heart including Bob Connall will Carry, Nathan Jason,
(38:03):
Jerry my New York and Atlanta Cruz. There are too
many to name. Also Shanta and Sarab, my family in India,
my family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who
read this episode's warning check out his shows ridiculous history
and stuff they don't want you to know. And just
one last thank you to my Amah and my dad
(38:23):
is Lolita and Amir Tatigudur, who I thank my lucky
stars for Thank you so much for listening. Dumdum dimdimdumdumdimdumdum
dim DoD
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