Charley Hoffman

Live and in person from their shared home course in Rancho Santa Fe, CA, Brian talks with his neighbor and friend PGA Tour pro Charley Hoffman about getting knocked down a peg by his excellent team at UNLV, stepping into a leadership role on the board of the PGA, and living in paradise in his hometown of San Diego.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I was young, I think I was just dumb
enough that I think I could beat the guys that
were better than me. And now that I'm old, I
think I'm just dumb enough that I can still beat
those kids that are better than me. So there's a
little bit of dumb in there that goes on. But
what separates but is like the juices that come alive
in your body when you're playing a competitive sport like
that at the elite level, is you can't reproduce at

(00:22):
a club championship.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
You can't reproduce on Friday golf. You can't. But that's
what makes it.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel
at the other side. So like I say, I'm very
average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match
with our friends out here, but I under the gun,
I just something rises up that gets my juices going.
And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those
juices that go in which makes me better, and when
I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I'm Charlie hoffin PGA two are professional better known as
the Seagull.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, Hi everybody, and welcome back.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
To another episode. Thank you for joining me for Off
the Beat. I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, and now
today I got to record ir L That's right, which
is young people talk for in person, face to face.
It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity

(01:31):
to do that. That was a lot of fun, and
I did it with today's guest because well he's also
my neighbor and a good friend. I am talking about
the seagull Charlie Hoffman, PGA Tour golfer and a PGA
Tour board member. With what has been going on with

(01:54):
golf over the last couple of years. Well, he's an insider,
to say the lead. He's also a fierce champion of
the sport, both in the sense of being a winner
and an advocate to making it better and to helping
golf reach a wider audience. So I'm excited for you
to hear the inside scoop on the PGA, his recent

(02:18):
major accomplishment on the Green and yes, our very own
Friday Golf group, Landon Donovan is a member of that
group as well. So look out here he comes dropping
bombs the Seagull Charlie Hoffman, bubble and squeak.

Speaker 5 (02:42):
I love it, Bubble and Squeakna bubble and squeaker, cooking
at every mole. Lift over from the ninety four.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Charlie. How's it going? How's it going? It's good to
see you. We're here at.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Our We're coming to you live from Rancho Santa Fe
golf Course.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
How long have you been here? How long have you
played here? I've long backtrack?

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Story is I grew up getting lessons from the longtime
pro Chuck Courtney here, so a long long time. I
grew up in Poway, which is only fifteen twenty minutes
from here, but been an actual member ten years. We
bought the house just prior to my kids going to
school here, and they're in seventh and fifth grade, so
I bet you close to ten years I remember.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Right, But you've been playing here since you were a kid.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
I grew up like literally my first instructor, Chuck Courney,
was the pro here and this is where I drove
from Poway and my parents used to dropped me off
and I got lessons.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Was this so?

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Was would you consider this like your home course? When
you were out like you weren't allowed to play it?
Sort of like couldn't you know.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I just came in and took a lesson and they
kicked me out. I'm a Poway kid. They went and
let the Pwai kid in ranch to Santa Fe. Well,
where where did you play?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
Like?

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Where where was your home course? I grew up a public,
public golf course.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
We're at Ranch Bernardo in Oaks North Or when I
got in high school, my parents joined stone Ridge. Uh so,
first club I was a member. It wasn't until high school.
So I grew up playing all different golf courses in
powaway from golf courses aren't even there. Came on ranches
gone the old I mean half of them, art aren't
even there any longer, their housing developments.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
But uh so I was. I was a public course
kid right. Well, so spoiler alert. You grew up in
the San Diego area. For those of you who don't
know powways in the San Diego area, I mean you
you've traveled everywhere around the globe.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Why why do you call San Diego home.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
It's the best. It's the best spot in the world.
I've seen it all, literally, the best spot. Now, it
was great before I started paying taxes. It's not quite
great now dumb, so much money in the Texas, But
you know what I lived. I went to college in UNLV,
which some sort of probably more of a spoiler. I
won national championship in ninety eight. Stayed out there. I

(05:10):
tell the stories. I couldn't afford anything else. I was
lucky enough my grandparents left me some money to go
to college, didn't need it, got a scholarship, used out
as down payment of first house right out of college,
and then sort of just made that my home base.
Playing professional golf was easy to travel from, great practicabilities,
a great place as a single young male, also to
hang out. And then I started having a family and

(05:33):
decided it's probably a little bit better to raise.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
A family in San Diego and Diego. That's how we
got here.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
When people ask me as I travel around why San Diego,
I said, well, it's only bad if you don't like perfect.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I mean, the true story is, like my wife, I'll
be on the road for three weeks and I come home.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
It was like, oh, right, let's go on a vacation.
I'm like, this is a vacation. No, I know, I
just want to be home right.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Growing up already said you played golf. You took lessons here?
Were there other sports?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Grew up playing competitive baseball, All Star baseball. Okay, through
until high school. Golf and baseball were the same time.
Grew up playing competitive soccer, traveling soccer in Powaway, and
then I played soccer through my senior year of high school.
So I played two sports in high school. And then uh, then, obviously,
once I got recruited to play golf at U and
LV obviously focused down to one. Right, did your parents

(06:26):
play golf? The story behind that is my dad didn't
play golf. It was a friend's grandpa about three doors down,
Bill Lundry. His grandpa's name was Henry Lundy, invited us
to go play golf for me and him to go
play golf with him. We loved it one because we
both were friends and we could interact. And then my
dad started using the story of if I wanted to
spend any time with my son, I had to go.

(06:47):
I had to pick up golf. So he went and
played golf every once in a while with us on
the weekend. And then now he's hooked and probably plays
more golf than I do.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh really, yeah, he loves it.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
He's a member of our branch Maato Country Club and
plays all the time.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
So one of the things I like to ask people
is when you're a kid, like you just said, you
play soccer, you play competitive baseball, you golf, Like, at
what point for you is there a shift? Like at
what point is it like, oh, this is something that
I could do, or was it just I would need
to get a scholarship to college so I'm going to

(07:21):
do that, or was there a moment for you?

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Well, I'd say that.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I mean, I've played competitive golf obviously through San die
agrian A Golf as a young kid, and then at sixteen,
I was lucky enough at the back in the day
at the Buick Invitational, they had an amateur qualifier okay,
and two guys initially, I mean, which is unheard of
now if you think about it.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
They had the.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Local San Diego Golf had or the PGA or whatever
you want to call it, had a qualifier for two amateurs,
not pros weren't even allowed.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
So two amateurs played the event.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
And when I was sixteen, I qualified, didn't make the cut,
but I'm like, holy crap, I'm I'm in the mix.
I like this warming up next to Jacobson Stadler. Guys,
I washed on TV, just like the kids are doing now.
I'm like, got those juices going. I'm like, I like
this right. Then go to college and I'm eighteen, freshman
year of college, actually not really playing a ton for

(08:12):
my college team at U and l V.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
At the time, we were one of the best in
the country.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
And I go and make the cut at to b
a invitational now the Farmer's Insurance Open in San Diego.
So I'm eighteen years old, not even playing on my
college team. That's how good our college team was. And
my coach is Caddy in and I make the cut.
I'm like, well, I'm obviously one of the best players
in the country. The coach the next week goes, You're
not even to travel for us. I'm like, what is

(08:37):
going on? So our team was great. We had a
bunch of all Americans, bunch Adam Scott. Adam Scott was
a freshman when I was a senior. But when I
was a freshman, Chris Riley obviously a Ryder cuper, Chad
Campbell ride our copper.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
We had.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
We had some great, great players that obviously would outclass
me at that time. And but that was it was
humbling and like sort of I knew I had it
at the same time when I when I was around eighteen,
thinking I could compete against the best in the world.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Well before then, though, you you win two state championships.
Now this is California, Southern California, Southern California. California Southern California.
What they split it.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
They did split the Northern California and Southern California. Obviously
it'd be kind of hard to put them both together.
But who won in Northern California when you want in
Southern If I had to guess, it would be a
guy like Joel Krible Joe Carbro sort of dominated. He
played at Stanford with Tiger, just under Tiger, just after Tiger,
and he was the sort of the guy in my
time that wasn't Tiger Woods that won a lot of

(09:33):
a lot of events.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Did you play I just didn't even occur to me.
Did you play stuff in California with Tiger when he
went like when you would have been a little older.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
It's funny, he always played up so when I played
junior golf stuff, he was playing amateur like US amateur stuff.
Amate golf, and when I was playing amateur stuff, he
was en amateur playing professional golf.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
So our past didn't cross a.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Ton, even though we're I think he's one year older
than me really growing up. Besides, he dominated anything and
everything he played in.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Right, you go to UNLV, you win a national championship
in nineteen ninety eight on that team. By the time
you won the national championship, how much were you playing that?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I was playing full time there, but I would be
the first person to tell you I was probably the.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Number four guy on the team.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, really, Yeah, it might have been that the coach
so I like to have fun in college. It might
have been that I didn't always put all the effort
and work in that.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I maybe could have. But our teams were stacked.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
We were never out of like the top three in
the country when I was the four years ours there
is I mean it was, I mean somewhat of a dynasty.
We should have won a couple national championships. We only
won one. But I was never the best player, and
any time I wasn't the best player in junior golf,
I was never the best player in amateur golf and
professional golf. I just sort of succeeded. I sort of
put my granted, but I still wouldn't say I was

(10:52):
the best player ever to play the PGA Tour. But
I mean, I've sort of always been a role player
and always knew I could beet and play against guys.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
So one thing that's interesting to me, and now having
played with you and others who are professional, what would
you say is the intangible or like there's a lot
of great players, right, I mean, there's a lot of
great players at this club that are like plus five,
plus six, you know, but couldn't ever sort of make

(11:21):
it beyond being just a recreational golfer.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Like what do you think that it is? Is it
a mindset? Is it a what is it that takes
you just to that extra level.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
I've said this before. When I was young, I think
I was just dumb enough that I think I could
beat the guys that were better than me. And now
that I'm old, I think I'm just dumb enough that
I can still beat those kids that are better than me.
So there's a little bit of dumb in there that
goes on. But what separates is like the juices that
come alive in your body when you're playing a competitive

(11:55):
sport like that at the elite level. Is you can't
reproduce at a club championship, you can't produce on Friday golf.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
You can, but that's what makes it.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Some guys excel in that environment and some guys excel
at the other side. So like I say, I'm very
average golfer when it comes to a Friday golf match
with our friends out here. But if under the gun,
I just something rises up that gets my juices going.
And I would say I feed off that adrenaline, those
juices that go in which makes me better.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
And when I'm just playing for fun, I don't have them. Right.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Well, I said a long time ago, I have to
play for something.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I think there has to be something, as you know,
for me, there has to be something.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
On the line, or well there's no steaks, Yeah, it
doesn't matter, and you're feeling in the ultimate steaks.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, yes, so I still look.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I mean, obviously more you gamble for on the golf
course somewhere it gets my attention. But I learned from
a young age that gambling was part of golf and
that's just sort of how you got better. And you
saw there's some always some sort of breaking point. You
always found that you tried to find that in a
person and see what broke them, if it was money
or how you talked, or how fast you played or

(13:04):
how slow you played. You always tried to find an
edge on somebody. And I think that's I've always looked
for that edge to be beat somebody, and that's why
I've always been fairly successful doing it.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
I was going to talk about this later, but it
seems like a perfect transition. You have a nickname, yes,
the seagull.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yes, what does that refer to? The seagull?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
So it transpired back in Las Vegas, and I'm going
to probably give Maleinger, John Mallinger the credit on this.
And Bill Lundy and I were chipping and I think
we might have been calling Mallinger of the Seagull to
be honest with you, and then obviously it might might
have turned on me, and then somehow Colt knows.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Got ahold of it.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
But back to the actual, what does this seagull mean?
It is like I fly around and shit on everybody.
I talked shit about it, I mean, but I do
it to your face. I don't know, I don't I
don't do it behind your back. Right, That's where sort
of Colt obviously couldn't play because he wasn't very good
and he got an announcing gig and uh and then
he was People start to listen to what he said,

(14:01):
and he sort of I would say, I would credit
him to making that mainstream the Seagull. Yeah, so it's
I wouldn't say it's his fault or his greatness, but
I think it originally came from Mallinger.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Are you are you proud of that? I embraced it. Okay,
I don't. I don't. I never denied it, but I
embrace it. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think
it's a bad thing. Right.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Does it give you a competitive advantage? Is that what
you're doing is you are you looking to try to
get in someone's.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Head or like on a Tuesday, you're always I mean
that's when you talk trash. Everybody's on a Tuesday when
you're gambling or have a match, and that's sort of
when you're sort of, what's this guy have?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
What's this guy not have? And he sort of, you know,
you know, the greats.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Are harder to get into their head and the not
grades are a little bit easier.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
So I try to.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Find something I might store it in the back of
my brain and then bring it out on it at
a time, and so that I think that's the seagle
side of it.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I'm strategic on that side.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I wouldn't say in competition, I'm not going to try
to use on you, but in a gambling I definitely will.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Right you turned pro just a couple of years out
of college. Start on the by at the time, the
buy dot Com tour. This is the corn Ferry Tour.
Now correct, right.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
You?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
You only made four of nineteen, missed my first sixteen
in a row.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
If you want to be actively sixteen sixteen in a row,
this is actually probably not many people know this story.
So Zach Johnson and myself somehow became friends.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
I have no idea at all or why. But he's
a nice guy.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
A nice guy, but he missed the first They want
to say twelve cuts in a row, missed the first sixteen.
We roomed half the time together, and we're like, what
the heck is going on? There's no chance for going
to be any I mean, think of those two names. Obviously,
Zach's definitely in Hall of famer. I've been out there
for nearly twenty years now. It's like two guys that
couldn't break an egg. So any any kid listening to this,

(15:51):
and I'm not telling be professional golfer or anything, but
you can make it after some struggles. But we were, honestly,
we're driving the country. We both had a car, drove
the country. We had a lot of weekends off, we
practiced a ton together, and we just tried to become better.
And at that age, as I say, I learned way
more in those first sixteen events of the year I

(16:11):
played golf, and I've learned since, Learned how to travel,
learned how to deal with the emotion of missing Cutch, learned,
just learned so much about myself in a very short
period of time. Because I'd always been very successful, most
most kids playingrofessional golf had. But I mean, I've excelled
in junior golf, I excelled in college golf, and then
all of a sudden, you and I get right out
of college on I would say, a major tour, the

(16:32):
buy dot Com Tour, the corn Ferry Tour, which I
think only two kids got. Throw all the back when
Q school is coming back but back when Q school
was the only way to get on tour. Only two
guys from college that he even made it to the
Buy dot Com tour. So it's a very small group.
But you're thrown in the middle of it. There's no
one else helping helping you out. It's not like this
day and age when everybody has an agent knew doing
hotels for you.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I mean I had an agent, but that's it was
just a different time.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
The Internet didn't really exist, and I'm picking up flyers
on the way from Denny's on what the cheapest hotel
is to stay at. But it was a long road
that first year on the corn Ferry tour. But two
of us that weren't very successful ended up being successful
because I think we learned from our mistakes and what
we did wrong and how we could do things better.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
First of all, that's a great lesson, right, Like take
that adversity. It reminds me of when the La Rams
moved from.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
This is like such a weird reference, but I don't know.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
This is what popped into my head when the La
Rams moved from Saint Louis to la and there was
this show All or Nothing on Amazon Prime that highlighted
their season, and they're moving and spoiler alert, they were terrible.
Jeff Fisher gets fired in the middle of the year
and anyway, I got brought in to help sell this

(17:42):
all or nothing documentary because the rams were like, yeah,
we don't want anything to do with that, and the
story became how difficult that transition was for everyone, right,
because you're moving not just you know, shoulder pads and
helmet and all of your equipment, but your personnel. Everyone's

(18:03):
trying to find a place to.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Live, families and families.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Where do you live in relation to where you're practicing
and it was a temporary practice facility. Anyway, Like how
much they struggle to it makes a ton of sense. Right,
You're in high school and your parents are taking care
of you, I mean to whatever degree they are.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
And then you're going to college and somebody.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Is taking to university, taking care of everything, paying for
travel and telling you this is where you're staying, which good, bad,
or indifferent. Someone's telling you what to do and you
don't have to worry about that. But yeah, being out
on your own for the first time and traveling around
the country has got to be really difficult.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
With no money, with no money, literally no money. I'm
sure my parents helped me out, but I had nothing.
I mean, and speaking of having nothing, then I wasn't
making any money because the only way to make money
is to make the cut. There were some Monday pro ams.
I would say that you could, I would would fit
the hotel bills and stuff like that, but then you
had a caddy. I mean, I was losing losing my

(19:02):
butt that first year. But obviously I learned a lot
through those mistakes. But it was very, very hard, and
I think the agents have gotten a lot better have
held to get guys navigate through that.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
But back then it really wasn't wasn't there? Why did
you keep going? You know what?

Speaker 1 (19:20):
There was a period of time where I probably didn't
want to keep going. But that year that I missed
sixteen arrow games with some momentum at the inn of the
year and almost got my tour card through tour school
is actually I was right on the cuss and I
made a bou gear two coming in and end up
not getting my full PGA tour card. And then I
went back to the buy dot Com tour Cornferry Tour
and uh I had a decent year. But back then

(19:42):
only I want to say, like fifty five guys or
sixty guys kept their card on that tour, and I
want to say it was in mid seventies or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
I had to go back to the first stage tour school.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
And then I missed that. I'm like, holy, what the
heck is going on? I went from fairly stiphoned the
next thing, you have nothing to go back on. Played
so many tours in Europe a little bit, but there
was a small point in time when I was playing
mini tours and like, if I don't get if I
don't get through this year, I don't want to be
that journey pro guy that's thirty something years old and
playing mini tours and not making any money. So I

(20:13):
gave myself one more year to do that. And this
period of time felt like longer than my eighteen or
nineteen years on tour.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
It was a weird part.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
I mean, not where you want to be struggling in
a but looking back, it didn't really take that long
for me to get on tour.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
But those those years were long years and hard years.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
And I was able to get my full by icon
card back or corn Ferry Tour card back by doing
Monday qualifiers and ended up winning a year. Didn't get
my tour card that year, and the next year I
played spit the full year on that Corn Ferry Tour
and was able to get my card through the top.
I think it was twenty guys, and I haven't looked
back since, and I don't I think I think it
was so hard down there, you don't want to go
back there. It's like you got so much scar, You're like,

(20:52):
let me stay up here as long as I can.
I still firmly believe that anybody that goes back up
to that tour after a couple of years on tour,
they're like, why am I down? Is very depressing if
you've tasted the PGA Tour and think you belong up there. Right,

(21:24):
two thousand and four, you win the Permian Permian Basin Open,
Permian Basin Open. That's your first Professon Midland Texas, Midland Texas.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
It was such a world win year because I was
sort of the year I'm like, if I don't do it,
and then I was able to win and it gave
me obviously some financial ability to play the next few
years and do that.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
It's it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Obviously without that win, I I may not been here,
may not been playing professional golf, So that was important. Obviously,
would love to have got my card that year, but
it took me a whole another year to get my
card and I was able to do it. But that
win is as special as pretty much any of them. Yeah,
actually probably a close second to the Bob Hope that
I won my first PGA Tour win No. Seven, but

(22:07):
that's probably because you get on tour and I played
a whole year on tour and that was my first
event in seven and a good friend that I met
through through the ranks of playing celebrity golf tournaments, and
George Lopez was hosting it that year, which he didn't
host it many years, but it was it was actually
nice to have someone around that we played a practice
round and just knew each other and my first year

(22:28):
and I was able to win the event and he
was watching it.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
It was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
And that sort of gave me the thought of belonging
on the PGA Tour because you really didn't know if
he belonged and I'd only been out there a year
and you're a young kid, and it's like it gave me,
I would say, a spot in the fraternity of the
PGA Tour.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
And but was what was really.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Weird that I haven't talked much about, is like, all
of a sudden, a young kid and I get thrown
in like the Ryder Cup discussion the president.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
I'm like, hold on a second.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I just went from trying to keep my job X
amount of months ago, now I'm throwing it.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
I wasn't ready for that either, and.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Sort of struggle and put some more pressure on myself
that I really hadn't thought about.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
But that that was a that was.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
A great time, but sort of all of a sudden
put added pressure on myself that really wasn't needed.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
Right through the BMW Championship. You and I have talked
about that, which is a current event on the corn
Ferry Tour. I've had the opportunity to go and play
with a bunch of those guys, Max.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Homer, Harry Higgs.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
I mean the ability of those guys again, it's like
it's like you're playing on the PGA Tour.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I mean, the ability is insane.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
They may have more ability to honestly like raw talent.
Those guys have raw talent, they just don't don't know
how to harness it for them and how to I
would say, actually play golf. But like you said in
the Ranger, and watch those guys hit golf balls on
the corn Ferry Tour nowadays, they probably hit it further
and make a different sound than a lot of the
guys on the PGA Tour. But they just haven't sort
of figured out how to play PGA Tour golf and

(23:49):
navigate themselves around the golf course.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
But there's tremendous talent down on that tour. I mean
it's been.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Debatable for the last few years versus the second best
tour in the world. And obviously your produces amazing talent
on the DPAT their top their top end talent is
top end. But if you go to the middle of
the talent the corn Ferry Tour, middle of the talent
could be a PJ Tour star the next year.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
Yeah, why do you think that they're well, I mean,
like you said, some of them are just young and
they just have to take the time.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Not the learning curve that I just talked about.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
I mean, it's like they they I mean, it's easier
I think now with Internet and agents and all that
stuff to be able to travel around and understand where
to stay and get caddies.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
But there's a learning curve for all of us.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I mean it's it's I think that's the biggest thing
you sort of with the Corn Ferry Tour does great
job of its teaching guys how to travel, teaching how
to score, teaching how to play golf.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
And once you get.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
On the PJ Tour, you're playing You're not playing against
the best guys your age, You're playing the best guys
that were the best guys for the last.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Couple of generations.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
So that I mean it's it's some serious talent you're
and it's you're thrown right in the mixer.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
What has been your philosophy over your career obviously long
career in terms of caddy Like.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
What are you?

Speaker 4 (24:56):
What are you looking for? What kind of person do
you feel helps you the most being out there?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah? Week to week, I've really only had three caddies.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
My first caddy, Miguel Rivera, was was a guy that
was trying to play professional golf. Went to some Monday
qualifiers with me on that Corn for a tour of
the year I was like the last year and he
wouldn't qualify.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I would qualify, and then he would caddy for me.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
He'd make some money to cover somebody spend to be
able to go the next week.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
So that next thing, you know, I get my tour card.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
He doesn't play golf in morning, he comes and caddies
for me on the PGA Tour.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
That lasted nearly ten years. What did he give you?

Speaker 4 (25:30):
What?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
He I always liked the friend on the bag and
the guy that knew golf.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
So friendship. We guy to be able to go to
dinner with God, to be able to hang out with
and knew the game of golf, so that was key.
So and then the next guy transitions into Brett Waldman,
which was one of the better, better caddies on tour.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Lost success. He was a great player, just done.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
He played caddied on tour, caddy for Camilla for a
bunch of years, I mean go on and on. But
his best year with Camila when he was playing good
in the FedEx Cup. And then he decided he wanted
to go try to play professional golf, so he went
went to Cuscoll He got his corn Ferry Tour card
back and he played his corn Ferry Tour and he
was he was good, but then he lost his card
and now he doesn't have a job again.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Then he starts catting again. That's how he sorted.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
He was caddying for David Thomas actually before he started
catting for me, and Uh, I just had part of
ways and my miguel and I called him up and
uh he was able at caddy and he first week
he caddy for me, I won. So I'm like, all right,
that's that's a good start. And uh he caddied for
me about four years. But back he fit the mold.
He was a friend that I'd know him through through
the years of playing the PGA Tour. Uh Andy nu

(26:32):
golf and then now my current caddy is Andy Barnes,
uh older brother of Ricky Barnes, and he played at
UO of A. He used to kick my button amateur golf.
He was very very good golfer. But uh, I would
say injuries back injuries sort of sidelined his uh career
of playing golf.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
And he caddied for me a little bit early on
in my career.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Uh, but then he got the opportunity to go be
an assistant coach at Arizona, and I'm like, He's like,
what should I do?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I'm like, you can always come back in Caddy.
But the opportunity to.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Be a coach and in the city you grew up
or not grew up that you live in now is
you can't pass that opportunity yet, right. He went, did
that for a few years, liked it, but decided when
he wanted to get the head coaching job there and
saw that it wasn't going to get the head coaching
job there, he decided to come back and Caddy and
we sort of joined up forces of four or five
years ago, and next thing you know, it's nearly I've

(27:19):
just finished my pretty much my eighteenth year on tour,
going my nineteenth year, and I've only been through three guys.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
So the common denomeer is you.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Got you had to play golf, and you had to
be I had to be able to get along with
you because you're right, you're with these people more than
you are your wife, right, and literally traveling on planes,
renting cars together.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Some in early on career split in hotel rooms.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Now obviously fortunate enough now have to split hotel rooms,
but a lot of times stay in the same spot.
So you spend a lot of time with these guys,
you better be able to get along with them.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
How much are they giving you advice about shot or
club selection? Is so like pedestrian, But I mean, like,
are you going to hit a six iron this way
or a seven iron that way?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Are they talking? Is more keep you in check? Okay?
So I'll use an example.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Say three holes earlier are the same direction, hole and wind,
and you hit a six iron we'll say one hundred
and eighty five yards, and then you got the same
shots like one ninety five and the only and you
get the carry of the bunkers one ninety's like, dude,
you just hit this club one only one eighty five
the whole prior, I don't think you can make it
over that bunker, and say I would have pulled six irons,
like we've got X amount behind the green. I think

(28:28):
five irons better play here. It sort of keeps you
in check, making sure you make the right decision. Ideally,
you're thinking clearly, and he doesn't have to do a lot.
But that's not always the case. You always think he
might be able to and I think he's just there
to state the obvious, making sure you don't make a mistake. Obviously,
we're in control of a club, we pulling what shot
we hit. But they're they're the only people watching every shot,

(28:50):
you and your caddy, So they're there to keep you
in check and make sure your motions are in check
and and when you're acting like a prick, and to
keep you in check. And that's what that's the hard
part of the especially being a friend, is being able
to say something in us acknowledge it when we're not
doing what we're supposed to be doing right.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Your most recent title, the Texas Open, you got to
a career high world ranking of twentieth in the world.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Was that a big deal for you? Top twenty?

Speaker 1 (29:17):
You know what, I never thought about world ranking a ton,
probably because I wasn't that high up in my career.
I would say I love competing that that event. Obviously,
again I was hot and I played well, but playing
in majors always got my juices going.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Always.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
That's sort of what every everybody's career is based off of.
I wasn't I didn't play a ton in my career.
I played a decent amount and I competed a decent
amount in them, but something about the majors getting I
got those juices going a little.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Bit more than the PGA Tour event.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
But I always formed a schedule around the golf course
I wanted to play, not always based on the best
field field qualities. It was just like sort of like
what flowed, which is different times. If you look back now,
it's like maybe I wouldn't have done that. But I
never really looked at per sizes. I never really looked
at who was playing to what events I want to play.
I sort of navigated around cities I wanted to go to,

(30:04):
or now birthdays and events that I have during the summer.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
That so it's going to be a different time with the.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
New schedule and the PGA Tour, what guys playing, what
they don't play, but my home my whole career, I
was able to pick and plan strategically and what course
I wanted to play. And that might have inhibited my
world ranking because there's definitely an art to be able
to climb up that world ranking board, and some guys
have played it perfectly and I just was never into
that game of doing that.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Well.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
Being on the tour eighteen years, you do you did Okay,
you managed it.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
As you mentioned before, there is there is a group
we call it Friday Golf here in Rancho Santa Fe.
A big deal this year at the Wendham Championship in Greensboro,
North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
You make an albatross.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
This My phone went off more within a thirty minute
period then maybe any time in my life. Tell me
about that and the feeling of that, and the messages
that you must have received from not just us but
everybody else.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
It was almost like whenning a golf tournament on the
message side, but walk you through the shot was it was.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
It's an interesting part five.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
It's short, little part five, but there's a crosspunker and
then hazard going down the left hand side, and it
was probably three wood off the tee would be in
the strategic move and be able to hit we'll say
a long iron or a wood to the center of
the green and put over. And I was in the position.
It was the last tournament sort of the year of
the FedEx Cup. I really didn't have a ton of
loser gain from it. To my caddy and I are like, well,

(31:41):
let's try to feed a driver up there and sort
of into this neck and then you have a better
angle into the pen and try to make an egle
of some sort. I was able to do that, and
then I hit the beautiful cut six ron, probably a
little further right than I intended, but it landed just
perfectly soft and night I saw the gallery hand that
you couldn't see the ball on the hole, but the
gallery hands went up. They're like uh, and then like sheering,

(32:03):
and then all of a sudden they just went crazy.
And I mean it for I would say the Windom
Championship amazing champian, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's not a major. There's not usually a ton of
but that this hole.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Had a ton of people, a lot of corporate box
around and it was it was loud right around that hole,
and uh it was.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
It was obviously amazing.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Feelings is the first first one I've made on the
PGA tour that I recollect.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
My stat say it's your first, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
First one. But I got a funny story. We'll go
back to reverse. I don't know why this even came
to my head, but my wife at the time girlfriend
came out to boise Wise playing probably by dot Com
tour back in the day, and she.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Never watched me play golf.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Okay, I go, I'm starting on the back nine and
make an albatross on the fourteenth hole, and then like
four holes later on the par five, I shank it
in the water. I tell I tell my wife or
not not my wife girlfriend. I'm like, you won't believe this,
but you'll probably never see those two shots ever again

(33:02):
from me. And then it was a span of forty
five minutes. That was the last time I think I
had an albatross and competitive golf was at it at
a pot of com But I mean, obviously my phone
went crazy, just like just like yours, because I was
on the half those group texts. But it's fun to
have a support system here that are rooting for me,
a bunch of people that become new friends here in
the town. Obviously you get the old friends and the

(33:22):
golfers that all saw it. But the funny even backstory
behind that is that albatross actually knocked Justin Thomas out
of the playoffs because I moved up so much and
I took points away from home. A lot of people
didn't it nor really catch media attention. But if you
do the math, if I don't finish twelfth and he
finished his twelfth with one less guy he gets enough

(33:45):
points to get in.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
The FedEx Cup playoffs. But that's that's a little side note.
Have you talked to him this? He doesn't talk to
me anymore.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
So I have to bring this up. We brought up
our group. There was a discussion the other day. Are
good friend guest on the podcast here Landon Donovan is
a ten handicap. He claimed the other night that by
the end of next year, so fifteen sixteen months from now,

(34:17):
he will be a one point eight.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
You know what, I've gotten to little Land in just
the same avenues as you have. Yes, he is. He's
the most coachable.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Athlete I've ever been around. I say athlete because he
is an athlete. Yes, Like sometimes you tell people things
and I'm an athlete too, go ahead. They can't do,
and they can't implement, And his being able to retain
the information, be able to implement the information that you're
trying to do is literally second to.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
None that anybody.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Now, I'm not an instructor that I've tried to help
or try to say things to. And he's open for succession,
which may hurt him down the road, but right now,
he's a sponge trying to retain any information. I'll tell
the story the first time I played, and he just
asked me about chipping, and he had couldn't couldn't chip,
couldn't get it on the green, And gave him a
couple of tips and like literally like three holes later,
he was able to do it.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I'm like, this is but he was so raw.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
He didn't he didn't know what he was doing was wrong,
and doing something else was easy because he didn't know
what to do to begin with. So if I had
to place a wager on that as competitive.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
He is one point eight.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's crazy to me to even think about that, but
I've if he really doesn't I think he I think
he could do it.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Think about the guy you're doing this, because now he's no,
he's going to listen and he's gonna think that he
can do this.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, but think about it.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
He never even touched a club, I mean pretty much
never touched a club until last a year.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
And he's a ten now. Yeah, but there's but he
knows how to chick. You know, he can putt he
knows how to chick because of you.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
But he's also over like a four foot like some
people shake and he doesn't give a ship.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
He just knocks in the back like so all right,
I say, I know, I I hear you. I think
he can do it. I most bet you go.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
There's no there's no way they're going to even come
close up. I think he can do it. It's a
long shot, but I think he can do it.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
All right, You're not you're not buying that, very skeptic.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Very to me, there's a there's a huge like to
be a ten is huge, yeah, but then there's a
huge jump to like a six, and then to me,
the biggest jump of all And maybe it's because I've been.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Like at the six.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
To go to like a four or three, even though
that's really cool, that's a huge other because that's becomes
a you're shooting in the seventies.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Every time, Yes, yes, to be a three or four
and you.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Cant shoot under part regularly to even be close to
it single digit or a two with that he is
but yeah, let's let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
He's got nothing but time, so he could do it.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
You heard it here first Full Swing Getting a lot
of tension, The golf documentary from Netflix, Huge Success. I
read last night and then looked it up again this
morning to write it down. Forty two percent of the
people who have watched say they're watching more golf now

(37:18):
and because we know how the world works and where
money is. Thirty six percent of people say they're spending
more time looking up on social media sites.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Good for the game. Full swing way better than I anticipated.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
But obviously I don't know if it could ever come
in at a better time for full swing?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Correct?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Correct, I mean, I'll use I mean Drivers Survive. I've
never watched a race car race in my life. I
started watching Drivers just five and next thing, you know,
I mean literally this morning. I watched the rerun of
Singapore F one this morning, I mean working out a
five thirty the morning, so it does work. I started
watching F one because of it. The numbers don't lie.
It's the reason why we did it as a PGA tour.

(38:00):
I don't think it was it was it endorsed by
the PGA Tour. Yes, it was endorsed.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yes, okay, yeah, you had to give them access and
ability to do that.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
No, as far as I know, which is mind blowing
to me, no one was paid to do it. It
was all volunteer, volunteering your time and have letting somebody.
I wouldn't say I was approached, but I don't think
I've ever done it. I don't want a camera in
front of my face.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I think my value can only go down if the
camera's in front of my face the whole time.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
So, uh, these guys have embraced it. Obviously.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
The producer is an amazing job to make portray them
in the right light. And uh, it was great to
have to live and the tour and everything else go
against each other and and just sort of see how
it was shaken out and just see personalities of guys
that you may not see on TV. I mean, I
think Joel Damon would. I mean, the whole the whole
series is great, and yeah, if you haven't watched it,
I recommend it. I don't think anything was that riveting

(38:47):
to someone that's inside it.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
But from the.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
People that I know that don't watch a ton of
golf that wash it all loved.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
It well to your point.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Just yesterday actually on Sunday, Sahith Thagala won the event
and there was a ton of media exposure around it
because he was so engaging and his family story in
the documentary was so engaged.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
I mean I thought so he.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
Like was like emotional watching him in the documentary. And
now he becomes someone that maybe people root for.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
He's pound for pound, the loudest gallery in all the golf.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
He's got his family or families, So I mean, there's
so many people following him around, and I bet you
even more since the Netflix has come out. But he
he's awesome. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. He's
a great young player, and obviously he's he's a rising
star in our sport and in Netflix got it before
before he won, which is even better.

Speaker 6 (39:44):
Yeah, for those of you who don't know, Charlie is

(40:05):
on the board of the PGA Tour.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
That kind of makes you like your own boss. I
guess all golfers are their own bosses. But what made
you want to do that?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I'd always voice my opinion to the guys early on
in my career, I'd say, and I guess I didn't
kick myself on the button say anything wrong. And I
was approached by the staff do you want to run
to be? And it starts with like the Player Advisory
Council that sort of reports the board.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
The player directors did that.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
For a few years and then did staff's like, I
think we're going to nominate you for election to go
on on the board. And I actually lost once or
twice prior before getting on the board, a lot of seniority.
I'd say, I think Davis beat me out one year
and Davis Love beat.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Me out one year.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
And then then I got on and I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed sort of knowing how the machine ticks and
talks and works, and that it and early on it
really wasn't not hard of a gig. I mean, we
were a pretty well oiled machine and didn't have really
any competition then and then well, and then COVID hit
and that I was rolling off and then I technically

(41:15):
was asked to run again and I won. So literally
during COVID, we're trying to figure out how we start
up again, what how do we play golf and entertain
during these times?

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Why?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Obviously trying to stay very very safe. So I technically
have been on the board for seven straight years. A
lot of phone calls, a lot more phone calls as
of late. And I mean I was this morning, I
was up at who knows how what time and on
a phone.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Call with a tour.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
But it's it's it's been time consuming but also fun
to be a part of it, and my voice is valued
on the PGA tour and trying to make the product
better for everybody. But COVID was intense and no one
had to playbook for COVID R. I mean, so we
were making stuff up on the fly and how how
can we do this? And we and I mean we
were really the besides NASCAR. We were the first group

(42:03):
of people to be back on TV, back out playing
and uh and really with no stoppage to think about that, like,
it's it was pretty crazy. Obviously, I thought it stunk
playing during COVID back to those juices. You didn't play
in front of anybody, so he never got the juices going.
It was it was really really weird, uh during that time,

(42:24):
but we were able to put a product out there
obviously for the fans to watch, and uh, it was
probably the biggest time for all of golf was COVID
because people started playing again and then obviously we came
back on TV. Our our views are high, people are
playing golf, people are engaging in golf, and it sort
of reinvented golf, to be completely honest with you, especially
for the younger generation, and like, holy holy crap, I

(42:45):
can go out on golf course and spend X amount
of hours my friends. My parents won't let me play
with my friends at home, but I can go out
on golf course and play with the friends. And so
it's COVID was great for golf. And then then we
hit this other time that we're going through right now
that we're sure we don't know what. I see the
end of the light at the end of the tunnel,
but it's been a dark eighteen months to say the least, right,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
To your point, what golf gave to so many people during.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
That time who were stuck inside, stuck alone, and to
be able to go out safely and do something outdoors
was so important.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
I agree with you, and it's sort of it gave everybody.
I think the respect I've always loved about golf is
you were able instead of a lunch meeting and whatever,
you go play golf with your buddies and everybody. What
I love about the game of golf, you know, to
interact with people for four and a half hours and
play with them and be outside and then and enjoy
someone's company without in close proximity and kept everybody safe,

(43:39):
which which was amazing.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
You're a board member of the PGA Tour. You talk
about the dark days of the last eighteen months with
the Live Tour starting Live good for golf or bad
for golf?

Speaker 1 (43:55):
I think competition in anything makes the game in your
product better. So few were to say that it has
to make make whoever comes out on top is going
to be stronger because of it.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Do you see a way that any of and let's
just talk about the sort of the bold adjustments that
Live did too, specifically would be the team based format
and the second would be three rounds, no cuts. Do
you think that there is any scenario that that makes

(44:26):
its way onto the PGA.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Tour Three rounds no cut.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
I don't see making it on the PGA Tour. I
think the PGA Tour will try to implement if some
sort of deal gets done. Even if a deal doesn't
get done, maybe try to try to integrate some team golf.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
But it's hard.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I mean, we've run the models, we've runs. It's very
very hard to implement because golf is such a traditional
game and traditionally it's you against the golf course and
people have liked our product hasn't been bad, people have
always watched it. No, I think it'd be hard to implement,
but I think there could be a spot for it.
But I a full schedule, a full tour around the

(45:02):
team Golf I don't think lives on.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
But that's well. See are you in support of the merger.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
I think anything to bring the golf world sort of
back together would be a good thing, So I guess
I could expand into that with I really do think
the piff and and Yaser want the best for the
game of golf. And obviously there's some political issues we
got to get through, and everybody's got to get through.

(45:32):
But I think if you can grow the game of
golf in Saudi Arabia or the Middle East to mainstream
for them, I think it's better for the game of golf.
If you can grow your global brand globally, then it's
got to be good for the game of golf.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
You get more people playing the game of golf is good.
It's great for everybody.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
So with that analogy, I think I think something does
get done.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I'm hopeful something gets done, but it's it's far from
even far from done, that's for sure.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
Really, So so the idea that there is that the
merger has been agreed to, there's still a lot of steps.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Oh, there's a ton of steps.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I mean, I think both both sides got to come
off their high horse a little bit and go, all right,
what's what's what's really the end game here?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
What are we trying to do?

Speaker 1 (46:12):
And I think I think that's what they're all trying
to figure out now and lots more people in that room,
and then they're hopefully persenting something to us in the
near future so we can so we can end it
or go on. I mean, I think it's everybody's sort
of tired of live versus the PGA tour. Larry, Let's
see where we end up here and hopefully figure it out.
In my mind, my mind's not made up on that's

(46:33):
going to be the deal yet, since I'll probably be
a vote.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
In all that decisions.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
And uh, but from ten thousand feet right now, I
think it'd probably best for the game of golf if
something does get done.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, it's a weird.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
I mean, I have I'll love to tell you It's
just such a complicated thing, right because as you mentioned
the political ramifications. You know, as a fan, you just
get aggravated because, as you said, it's an individual game
and you want all of the best individuals competing against

(47:08):
each other.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Could you integrate an individual aspect and a team aspect
sort of like what the list trying to do.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
I'm not saying, I'm just I'm just asking a question.
I don't know if they can.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
I don't know even if the fans want to engage
in that. We talked about content. Could you have a
team event back to on the first three days. Say
you're there six days. First three days have some sort
of team event. In the last three days you have
an individual event. I don't Can you integrate that? I
don't I don't know. I don't know those answers. It
sounds very complex on it will say our content has

(47:37):
been really good for a lot of years. Why are
we going to try to screw with it?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Is?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
If I step back and look at it, I think
traditional stroke play golf has worked. Even match play match
play golf works great, and team team events and Ryder
Cup and Presidence Cup, but traditionally in the viewership in a
match play event on the PGA Tour ward golf, and
it isn't really any good because you can't forecast who's
going to be in that last game or last match
so you can get right. So the match plays really
traditionally has not worked in the game.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
Of golf, right, but you but people do. I mean,
it's funny because that was what I was just about
to say. I mean, people do get behind the President's
Cup and the Ryder Cup, which is a team competition.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
We're playing for countries, not just I know, not the
high high flyers or the aces. I mean, it's just
it's every roots for the countries or the international team.
Everybody wants to be in America.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
That's why.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I mean, it's that's why it goes and and there's
always a match and always means something like traditional match play.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Are you like NCAA tournament.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Every watched it because it's a great competition no matter who's
in the final, it's always going to be great if
it's an upset or or or high higher ranking teams.
But it's it's just doesn't in my mind, doesn't match
play doesn't work individually in golf, but from the when
you're representing your country.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's it's just something different. It's always worked.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
It works in the Olympics, it works in in the
President's Cover, works in the Ryder Cup.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
I mean, I guess, yes, if this goes, if the
team golf lives on for X amount of years, will
gain some traction and people will But how do you
build that. I don't know, there's not it's just it's
very complex.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
I don't I don't know.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
I mean, I think that what's good for the game
is getting the players back together, that you get that
you're seeing everyone competing at.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
The same venue.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
I mean as a fan, well, we gave the golden
ticket to the majors, let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Well, yes.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
That was I mean literally, the golden ticket has gone
to every major championship. By the way, if you're not
a golf fan, the PGA Tour or nobody owns the majors.
Besides the Majors, the PGA of America owns the PGA Championship,
the USGA owns the US Open August, the Masters own
the Masters.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
And the RNA own the British Open.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
We get no TV revenue, we get no besides, as
a player, we get the revenue at the purse, but
we get no revenue sharing of any sort in any
of those major events, the four biggest events that we
put on, and then you throw the Ryder Cup in,
we don't even have any part of that. We have
part of the President's Cup, but our four or five
biggest generating revenue sport or events we don't even get
a piece of. And think about how strong we are

(50:09):
without those, so right, I mean you talk big pictures
like could you have an organization that all this falls
on around one umbrella, like a FIFA or something like that. Now,
now you could have something that's strong and sort of
help each other out enough that I don't I don't
think that's ever.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Been discussed really, But it's it's back.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
To getting everybody together. That's that would that would get
everybody together, That.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Would get everybody, That would get everybody together.

Speaker 4 (50:34):
So you said starting the other tour, having competition makes
everything stronger, makes total sense. Do you think that if
a merger goes through, which it doesn't sound like you're
sure that it will, but if if it happens, at
some point, can guys be forgiven for leaving.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
I mean, I don't on the on the player, so
I think majority of it understood why they left.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
I mean the they.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Cashed in and the reality you can't understand why, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you can understand why they left, definitely, and forgive them.
I think the tone that I've heard through the players, now,
as long as we were rewarded in some way by
staying right, there wouldn't be that big of an issue.
So we we got something for staying, they got something

(51:24):
for leaving, and now we're.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
All coming back together and everything stronger and everything's better.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I mean, every everybody wants to see the best players
play against each other. I mean, is a PG Tour
stronger with Brooks, Koepka and DJ and Bryson playing a
PJ Tour event?

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Of course it is, right, there's But will the PJ
Tour go on without them? Of course it will. So
it's funny there is that.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
There is an interesting thing and I'm not going to
mention any names. I mean, that's the great thing about golf,
right is that everybody roots for somebody different.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Right, But if you're a baseball fan, there are teams
that you don't like.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
Yeah, right now, this is these are about personal feelings.
But this is this is the genesis of sports. If
you are a fan of the University of Georgia, you
don't like Florida, Like right, there were a lot of
guys who left who were considered villains like that. I mean,
let's just be clear, like there were people that you
did not root for, and again, you missed that. Even

(52:22):
if you're not rooting for those guys at times, you
miss that ye as a fan, but.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
The play the opposite idea.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Probably one of the nicest guys on tour go also
Cam Smith, Yeah, I mean one of our biggest Yeah yeah, yeah,
but I agree with what what you're saying that, But
I wouldn't say those guys weren't missed. But our ratings
haven't changed at all since that's happened.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
It really actually only gave more power to.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
The major championships because there's their venues way more intriguing.
How that we're all playing together, which is great, I mean,
it's great time, it's.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
It is and I'm I'm I'm glad to hear your
support though you personally are not interested, but the support
and you being on the board obviously, Matt, you know
you had something to do with the fact that full
swing happened, you know, being able to get to know guys,
tell the story personally and tell that story. I mean,

(53:16):
it's just great. And the drama is great and brings
people in not to.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Interrupt you, but interrupt you.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
But that's what I think is great about the PGA
tour because there is downtime and we'll give Jim Nance
maybe the best storyteller of all time has time to
tell stories in between shots and people coming down the
stretch while live.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I've watched the content. I'm a fan of golf, that
you don't have that time. There's so much going on.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
There's no now the content and there's I mean there's
a ton of shots going on the same but you
never have any time to tell the story. And I
think what people like to do on a weekend and
sort of sit there and hear about the guy. And
I think something in our new format that we're going
to with the signature events that we're gonna miss. And
I've stressed this on board meetings and I'll say it publicly,

(53:57):
is gonna lose that We're going to lose that storytelling
of Thigala. At WM a couple of years ago, trying
to beat something Brooks trying to beat somebody big coming down.
You lose those storylines by only having the top fifty
or seventy in the world playing against each other and
then everybody's familiar with which.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I think that's what the PGA Tour is all about.
So I don't know how this is going to go.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
I've said this this morning to people, I've said it
in the past. I don't think we got our product
quite right yet. The new formula, well, we'll get it right,
I promise you that. But what we're going to put
in front of you is is going to be a
good try. But I think we're going to miss some
of that storytelling that has made the PJ Tour so special.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
That story part is very, very valuable to the PGA Tour.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Yeah, you have a foundation, weird the name is the
Charlie Hoffin Foundation original, but I know you do a
ton for kids, not just in San Diego but also
Las Vegas as well. Tell me about why you started
that and what you guys, what you guys have done

(55:10):
to keep.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
It somewhat short.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Back when early years on tour, Craig Staller used to
do an event for Sandegor Junior Golf here in town.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
He used to raise a.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Bunch of money for Sandy Juno Golf with with an
event the week of the Farmer's Centational back then bo Convitational,
and he'd moved on and they weren't having it anymore.
And it was my first or second year on tour,
and they approached me and I'm like, I'm just trying
to keep.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
My job out here.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
You want me to raise money for Sandy or GENI
I thought it was an honor, but I'm like, how
long can I keep this running? You got a previous
Masters champion running the event or putting lending his time
and effort to the event, and you've got a rookie
on tour that really has hadn't had a ton of
success in any any time.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
But we did the event.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
It was successful, and then we sat back at my
wife and I sat back and go, well, how can
we do this?

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Make this better? Let's not just focus on San Diego
and June Golf. Let's get something.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Not that I not indebted to San Diego Jingolten who
became and who made me, but let's make a real difference.
Let's come up with something that we truly do believe in,
and someone gave us the direction of you've got to
be focused in your in your charity effort or you
sort of get lost.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah, So our.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Mission statement is children's charities, which is still fairly vague
but at least somewhat focused. So Strigal falls under that.
Then pro Kids Golf here in San Diego, which is
heavily supported.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Uh, we're sort of forced.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
First Tea was framed after and very obviously supported by
the PGA tour. And then cissy fibrosis is the one
that's near and dear our heart. My brother's wife lost
two sisters of sissifibrosis, So it's I can go on
and on about sis fibrosis, but it's it's one that's
close to us. Since we started X amount of years ago,
we have seen the average age of a child i'd

(56:55):
say from a teenage or the late teens with life
expects me to people in their forties now, depending on
what strand you have, what drugs you can have. But
it's really changed. It's not widely supported by the government.
That's why individual funding sort of hopefully get rid of
this cisfibrosis. But it's something that we do truly believe,
and so that's how it started here in San Diego.

(57:16):
Then I was living in Las Vegas, went to school there,
obviously spent twenty years of my time there. So we
started doing an event in San Diego or so sorry
Las Vegas with coinciding with the SPINERSH Hospital open.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Very very gratifying.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
As I say, I always grew up dreaming of playing
on the PGA Tour, dreaming of being one of the
best golfers are play. But I never dreamed, and I
still pinched myself again my chills every time I talk
about is. I never dreamed I'd be able to give
back and raise money for people that are less fortunate
than me.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
And it's really I mean, golf is sort of why I'm.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Known, but hopefully my legacy is what I've done and
given back to communities in which I've lived in and
helped other people that are less fortunate than I am.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
Well in that right there is is why you're a
great guy.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
That's really what it's all about. I wish you all
the best. I know it's a it's a difficult job.
I mean, thank god that someone is willing to do it,
being on the board of the PGA Tour during this time,
but I think they're lucky to have a leader like
you to help get us through.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Yeah, we're all here. We're trying to Obviously.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
I consider myself a very an entertainer, and we all
want the best entertainers to be together performing in the
same spot. And hopefully we end up in that position.
But if it's not the best thing for our product,
we're not going to end up there. And hopefully we
get to that point for the players and everybody else
that loves the game of golf and loves watching us
entertain And I'm optimistic that we get to that point

(58:48):
and we put the best product forward and everybody's PGA
Tour fans for life.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I love it. Charlie. I'll see you Friday, all right.

Speaker 4 (58:56):
We'll be money cash cash money, nice time. Yep, Charlie,
you can gearron Tea. I'm gonna take all that money

(59:17):
on Friday. You give me enough strokes. I should thank you,
buddy for coming on and for sharing your insights and
for being so candid. I appreciate that. Listeners thank you
as well. I hope you've been enjoying this string of
athletes on the show because next week we have got
yet another big name in the world of sports. Come

(59:38):
back to find out who, But until next time, have
a really good week. Off the Beat is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
lingg Lee. Our senior producer is d Diego Tapia. Our

(01:00:01):
producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our
talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Ali Amir Sachem. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed
by the one and only Creed Brad