September 28, 2021 • 45 mins
Sometimes she made them look fresh, sometimes she made them look like Michael Moore. Head makeup artist Laverne Caracuzzi joins Brian in the studio to talk about the ridiculously close bond hair and makeup shared with the cast, her trick for working with fluorescent lighting, and the jaw-dropping gesture that was made during the Writer’s Strike.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi am Laverne Karacouz, and I was the department head
makeup artist on the Office. Hello everybody, and welcome back.
Uh it's a new week and that means it's time
for another episode of the Office Deep Dive. As always,
(00:28):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today we are bringing
on a guest that I don't have to make up
because she made me up. Because she does make up,
get it. She is also the one who made us
look fresh, well, sometimes made us look like we had
extremely bad sunburn or in my case my worst week
(00:51):
on the show, like Michael Moore, let me tell you,
fake hair on the face not comfortable. Uh. This woman
had all of the skill to give you a black
eye or to make you look good even if you were, say,
under a waterfall at Niagara Falls. Laverne Kara Kusi Laverne
(01:11):
was the makeup department head on the Office, which, let
me tell you, this was a huge task, right. We
had a huge cast, so there were a lot of
people to get ready every day and not a whole
lot of time. In fact, the battle plan she used
then is still used across the board on so many shows.
(01:33):
But she was so much more than that she was
a friend, a a therapist, a shoulder to lean on.
Really just someone to look forward to seeing every single day,
usually around five o'clock in the morning. And honestly, she
probably knows more secrets about the Office cast than anyone.
(01:55):
I mean, think about it. She got hours of one
on one time with all of the actors day in
and day out, just getting closer and closer all of
the time. But don't get any ideas our secrets are
definitely safe with her. You'll find her work on so
many shows, from Judging Amy to Monk to The West
(02:16):
Wing and Animal Kingdom. But perhaps her greatest professional achievement
thus far was getting her name on a Volunteer of
the Year plaque that was placed behind Creed's desk in
one of our episodes. So there's a fun little Easter
egg for you. But in all seriousness, Laverne I love her.
(02:37):
She was a joy to have on our crew. I
was so happy to reconnect with her for the first
time in many years. So get ready to be dolled
up with the one, the only Laverne Kara Kusi. I
(02:58):
love it. The Squiger Bubble and Squiager Cookie every moon
lift over from the nut before I know, it's been
(03:21):
so long. Oh my god, I'm so happy to see
my body. I knows changed. I remember when I used
to give you coffe. God, I have to put glasses
on too if I have to look at it to
look at No, you don't have to look at anything.
I just have to look at you. Now. You when? Okay?
(03:43):
When did you start on the Office? Okay? So I
started the Office when it was the pilot and the
first six episodes, which you guys considered to be a
first season, which in as we know in the normal
TV world, is not the first season. So I or
did after that sixth episode, So you you was just
(04:03):
the first six that you weren't there, correct? But I
was there from the very beginning, Like I remember specific things,
like I remember exactly where I was on the freeway
when my telephone rang and You're like, I hear You're
not coming back to the office. What's going on? And
you started talking to me and I was like, well,
(04:23):
I guess I'm not invited back. And then it started
this whole big thing. And then when I spoke to
Ken Zivornac, he was like, well, you know, Brian and
Leslie David, and I think it was mostly you two
were really rallying for me to go ahead and be there,
which I was so grateful for it. And then I
remember you and I were still on the phone even
(04:44):
by the time I got home, and I was kind
of like walking around in my front yard like thinking
about it, like, yeah, I still want to be there
if I'm welcome back there, you know. Right. And then
but what were you doing right before you did Freaking Geeks? Right?
I did Free some Geeks the shot that at Raley Hollywood,
and I always thought when I did Freaks and Geeks,
(05:05):
I always thought, God, what a great experience. Am I
ever going to experience this same kind of feeling again.
It's kind of like when you finish a job and
you go like, oh my god, am I ever going
to work again? Yeah? I feel that, But it was
that kind of feeling that I thought, Okay, Freaks and Geeks,
am I ever going to experience that again? And then,
(05:26):
as you know, we're like siblings, you know, everybody's almost
kind of arguing with one another, and it's like everybody
was getting in everybody else's business because they felt like
they were entitled because we had been around each other
for over twelve hours a day. I mean, that's the thing,
is that the the hair and makeup department. What people
don't realize maybe is like in terms of people on
(05:50):
the crew who are closest with the cast, there's nobody
closer because you you hear and see everything, right, I
think that hair and makeup are definitely the closest to
the cast. That's why I try to run as tight
of a ship as I can, where it's like, whatever
information you hear from anybody, regardless of who it is
(06:12):
that walks in and out of that door, is not
to be left from that trailer or to you know,
you know what I'm talking about. You know, I know, yes,
we're the first person you see in the morning, and
so you know, you could be having a bad day,
but at the end of the day you have to
leave that outside the trailer doors and kind of go
in with a smiley face, and then when everybody leaves,
(06:32):
you can break down in tears or whatever you need
to do. It's it's intimate work at times, you know,
to be working with someone on their face or an
issue that they might have or whatever else, and and
it it just sort of it's not intentional, and I
don't know, maybe it violates rules, but it does become
(06:54):
almost a therapist type situation too, when you're talking about
people's outside lives getting neglected at times, and you know,
the work being so important and on that show. I
think also the work was really important to everybody. Everybody
wanted to be good, not for themselves, but it really
(07:16):
was more a team. I feel like, I feel like
everybody wanted to be there. It wasn't like they were
forced to be there. It wasn't like, oh, I need
a job, so therefore I'm going to go ahead and
you know, just take this job. Everybody truly wanted to
be there. And you know, gosh, there were plenty of
times that not only did you know you have that
one on one with an actor where they're spilling their
(07:39):
guts to you, but you're also spilling your guts to
them because you feel that bond with them. I mean,
plenty of times, you know I had been in tears
for whatever reason, you know, I would be like, oh,
we'd just sit there and talk. It's almost like the
old timey hair salons, right, I mean, I understand you
did make up, but right like the or like the
(08:00):
barber shops or like you go in there and it's
this like safe zone that you can talk about anything absolutely,
because it's like when you see those old school movies,
you know, you see like the girls that are in
the nail salons and they're getting their nails done and
they're talking very privately to their person that's doing their nails. Right,
(08:22):
that's what we did. You guys came in early in
the morning, and because we had everybody working and up
at one time, we pretty much had everybody in the trailer.
And even when we didn't, you guys would still go
back to your trailer and do something, and you knew
your friends were going to come in an hour later.
So we'd always have like this big commotion of things
kind of going on in the trailer and always have
the A. D s come in there and say, okay,
(08:43):
how much longer, how much longer? Well, we have to
finish this story, and then we'd listen to Rain and
Oscar go back and forth at one another. Yeah, that's
what people don't realizes, you know. On our show. By
the end, we had four cup artists and four hair people. Right. Well,
(09:04):
we originally started out the show where they thought that
we could go ahead and get everybody ready at one time,
would just I think it started out two and two,
and then it was like, oh, well, we'll just go
ahead and have three and three, and then it was
like four and four and then remember we had that chart.
It was our battle plan where it was color coded
(09:24):
as to what actor was going to get their makeup
done and who was going to get their hair done,
and then the swapping of the chairs and they were
done in fifteen minute increments, which makes me laugh now
because since after The Office, I've gone on to other
shows where they have that same chart and they'll go, oh,
we have a battle plan, and I go, oh, well,
that's interesting because I think you took that from our
(09:45):
show way back. When it's kind of like when you
see these shows that are doing, you know, talking heads,
I'm like, oh, really the talking Heads started originally with us.
I almost kind of get a little bit territorial, right. Well,
we had I mean, at times like sixteen to twenty
actors that needed to be ready at the same time,
(10:06):
So there are four you know, there's four hair and
four makeup and then people have to flip flop. But
that's still only eight people, so you guys would create
this grid that people had to start coming in at
you know, five o'clock, four thirty in the morning just
to get everybody ready on time, right exactly. And there
was no type of buffer scene like a normal TV
(10:30):
so to speak. Not that our show wasn't normal TV,
but you never had like those buffer scenes where you
could go like, oh, let's go ahead and get half
the people ready, and then we have a buffer scene
to then go ahead and get more people ready. It
was like our buffer scene was a talking head and
that literally, as you know, was only one person. So
that only gave us a certain amount of time. So
I thank the office for that very reason because it's
(10:52):
forced me as an artist to go ahead and really
gain my speed because when they'll be like, oh, we
have eight people we need to get ready, I was like, ah,
that's a walk in the park. I can go ahead
and do that. We used to get sixteen and twenty
people ready at one time. How did you get into makeup? Um? Well,
I always painted a kid, you know. I used to
(11:14):
go with my face just painted, so I knew like
the idea of like color theory and how like different
materials kind of worked with each other. And I would
walk from my house in Toluca Lake to this woman's
house and she used to paint in her garage, and
uh so that kind of started. And I always wanted
to be in the arts in one capacity or another.
(11:36):
And then after I graduated high school, I went to
community college, and then I moved to London, and then
I got a degree in fashion design, and then I
still kind of dabbled a little bit in the arts
and you know, doing makeup and stuff like that. I
started originally doing commercials and I worked with one director
for many, many years um in commercials. And then my
(11:57):
first real TV job with Freaks and Geeks. And Freaks
and Geeks was where I met Paul Fie and Jake
Kasden and Seth Rogan and on and on and on.
So how did you get that job? I got that
job from I was doing a commercial and in between
going ahead and doing commercials, I had been day playing
(12:19):
on movies and TV stuff, and a friend of mine
called me and said, Hey, by the way, I need
somebody to work with me on this new TV show
called Freaks and Geeks. It's really simple makeup. These kids
are young and I thought, okay, and so I had
to be really straightforward and said, well, I just want
to let you know that I'm pregnant with my first daughter.
(12:40):
I would love to go ahead and do the show.
So basically, I that's how I got the job, and
I did Freaks and Geeks and um got to know
everybody there. Then I had the baby in January, and
then you know, years later I started running into like
Linda Cardelini and Jason Siegel and people like that, and
they would always ask how Vannah doing, How Savannah doing,
(13:01):
and just because I was, you know, pregnant with her
and I had worked the whole show being pregnant, So
that was like a special moment for me. Whereas it
was like even on the office when I would see
like Angela being pregnant, it reminded me of when I
went back to Freaking Geeks and when I was pregnant,
right right, and the hair and makeup world, I mean,
(13:25):
it really is about the relationships, right, Like you met
this makeup artist who brought you onto Freaking Geeks, and
then you you meet people and that's how it happens, right,
it pretty much does. I mean, I feel if you
have a good attitude. It's really about relationships because, as
we know, there's a lot of you know, jobs that
you often say to yourself, I wonder how they got
(13:49):
that job, you know what I mean. And that's no
disrespect to anybody. It's just the way that it is.
You know, if you are a people person and you
can do your job sufficiently, you know, and you have
a good attitude, then obviously you're going to get brought
onto the next one. Right. Yeah, do you remember anything
(14:09):
about those early years and we had did six episodes
and then we did six more and we were sent home.
And I mean, it occurs to me that the tremendous
amount of trust and courage that you showed kind of
stick with it over periods where you know, we were
(14:30):
working oddly and we didn't know if we were going
to keep going, but there was a trust in you
to kind of stick with it through that time. Well.
I just kind of feel as freelancers, whether you're above
the line or below the line, you're a gypsy. You
take your stuff, you show up at work. You know,
you don't know. I've been on plenty of shows prior
to the office where they're like, okay, we shoot up
(14:51):
till Christmas, you know, and then sometimes they would come
to you and be like, oh, sorry, it was picked
up for the back nine, but now we're canceled, you
know what I mean, But they're was I think it
goes back to the whole trust thing. I just always
felt like, you know, especially with Greg being our leader,
I always felt that he was always so genuine and
(15:12):
he would have said if there was anything that he
could foresee that was coming up, that he would have
said something to us. But I loved the whole cast,
so there was no reason for me not to be
excited about coming back. It didn't matter which way you went,
because it was always an uncertainty, you know. I don't
(15:34):
know if that's just something that we as individuals in
this business thrive on, like oh gosh, you know that
almost like an angst all the time, right right right
right right, you know. And I truly believe that if
you're good at what you do, you will always be
provided for. It may not be the ideal job, but
you don't know who you're going to meet along the
(15:55):
way that's going to go ahead and take you onto
the next thing, or not sure what differences are there
(16:21):
between being a makeup artist in fashion or whatever, like
what makes TV and film different and or why do
you like to do that or why have you chosen
to do that? I think that compared to say fashion
or commercials, you work at a completely different pace. Whereas
(16:42):
in television and film, as you know, we don't shoot,
you know, day one, night one, day two, so you
have to remember continuity basis. So when it comes to,
say a commercial, it's like I'm getting somebody ready and
I'm doing their makeup for a taco bell commercial, you'll,
let's say, But when you're doing television or film, there's
(17:05):
sometimes script wise where you may get them ready for
day one and then say day two, there's something specifically scripted,
like a person gets hit in the face with the
ball and they need to have a black eye, or
you know, they have a split lip or whatever it
happens to be. So you have to be really diligent
and stay on top of it, and you're also you
(17:26):
have a script that you're going by in television and
film opposed to fashion or commercials. But also in the
fashion world sometimes it's super high fashion, so it's thinking
outside the box opposed to going ahead and doing maybe
a straight makeup. It just all depends. And then there's
(17:47):
also differences between going ahead and doing a regular beauty
makeup opposed to doing special effects makeup or you know,
sometimes a tattoo is required, or I mean, you know
how it was when we did our certain episodes of
the Office where it would be like, oh, it's Halloween,
so and so it is gonna look like blah blah
blah blah, you're gonna make me miserable by by putting
(18:07):
by putting hair all over my face as Michael Moore.
But oh my gosh, because I had ahead, I had
to listen to you wine about the fact that I
had to have this stuff on my face one more time. However, okay,
now listen when your manager saw you, what was the
(18:31):
response that your manager had to say? Oh my god,
I thought that was Michael Moore. So I rest my case. Well,
here's the thing. People think you guys are nice and
you all you do is torture us. That's really, That's
what it is. No. I it's so crazy because on
the Office, so much of it was straight makeup, you know,
(18:53):
and downplayed, and you know, them not wanting to come
in or touch up or do anything because they wanted
this very sort of realistic look. But along with that,
there was a lot of crazy stuff that you guys
had to do in terms of that, or in terms
of injuries or when Kate got burned because she fell
asleep from yeah burned or yeah, I mean that must
(19:17):
make it fun, right? Oh? Absolutely? Every time I would
look at the script, I'd get super excited and be like, Oh,
what's in the script this week? And I always knew
that when Halloween rolled around that there was always going
to be something fun to actually do. But also to
there's like this misconception of when people say to you,
we want no makeup, Okay, well you need to be
(19:37):
a little bit more specific when you say no makeup.
There's a difference between a no makeup look where you're
actually putting on makeup but making them look like they
don't have makeup, opposed to not putting anything on their face. Right,
what was this specific direction that you were given in
terms of how the character should look. They're supposed to
look natural their everyday people that work in an office.
(19:59):
Also to keeping in mind Scranton. Because of Scranton, there's
a very different everyday look in Scranton as there would
be to an everyday look in l A or New
York or Dallas or wherever it happened to be. So
I think, you know, we never got any notes saying,
oh it's too much. You know, when we go into
do a you know myself as an artist, somebody sits
(20:21):
in your chair and you kind of look at them
and you're given the direction of natural. You then at
that point say, okay, do I just conceal under their eyes?
Are we going to keep the facial hair? We're going
to shave the facial hair. Are we're gonna whatever it
happens to be. Are there eyebrows to light that we
might have to darken a mint a bit. I think
that Greg was so great at going ahead and giving
(20:42):
saying a natural look, but then not micromanaging, you know
what I mean. He let us go ahead and have
a free range within parameters of what it was that
we as individuals felt. And you know, Greg, he was
always such a great leader. I mean, how do you
not of him? And you know, we had a little
bit of leeway and we just kind he kind of
(21:03):
left it up to us. Um, you know, because obviously
when you're in a trailer, going ahead and getting people
ready is very different to when you then take them
outside onto the set, of which I'm a huge advocate for.
If you're in a trailer, you try to go ahead
and have your lighting set up to how your lighting
(21:23):
is on the inside of a set. Did you do that? Yeah,
we would. We would call in the electric department when
we would start the new season and say, we need
to pull these lights because they don't hold the trailer
from season to season. So we would have the electrical
department come in take those lights out because they'd always
put in those lovely fluorescence and put in what was
(21:46):
color accurate to what it was that we were actually
shooting inside the set. And then there were some times
that because you know, certain people were always sitting in
front of a computer, sometimes having certain colors on a
computer inter screen always plays a little bit with the
coloring on people, skin tones, underneath their eyes, any little
(22:07):
things that you maybe want to color correct. So we
would have a collaboration, or I did with Steve hutch
to go ahead and make sure you turn the screen
to white so that you almost are blowing out the
color in somebody's face, and then it will be my
job as an artist to go in and deposit the
color back into the face because the blue would be
(22:29):
really throwing you off. Right, that's so interesting. I had
no idea that you guys were doing that with the
electric department. That's that's super cool. I mean, that makes
that makes a lot of sense. Well, I try to
go ahead, and I figured that out kind of early on,
and I do that now moving forward on different shows.
(22:51):
I try to be, you know, go to the electrical
department and be like, oh, by the way, can you
just let me know what it is, what type of
lighting you're using on set, so that uh, you're not
having to go ahead and make corrections. It's like, why
go ahead and make a step forward and then have
to go a step back right. And obviously, if you
know we're shooting outside or you know, in a different location,
(23:12):
like things are going to change. But when you have
a show like ours that takes place largely in this
one space, obviously they know the gist of how it's lit.
I think that there were times that you know, I
would we would be so early in the morning and
they would take us on our little road trips down
you know that one street that We would always drive
down um or we would be shooting on the back
(23:34):
side of the stages to implement wherever it was that
we were supposed to be shooting, and you'd put a
foundation on somebody's face and then you'd get outside and it,
you know, takes a minute for the skin to warm
up and for everything to kind of settle. And then
there were times that I would get people outside and
be like, oh, no, what have I done? I think
I need to correct us a little bit because this
doesn't look quite right. How is the office different than
(23:59):
any show you had been on before that? Do you
remember anything different? I just felt there was always that
great feeling of of being with your family. You know,
you're away from your family all the time we would
walk into the trailer, there was always that feeling of like, oh,
there's my there's my other brother, there's my other sister,
(24:22):
and you know how it was like over nine years,
of course, there's going to be those things that we
all like, we all start getting in each other's business,
and that's just what happens. I mean over nine nine years,
that's obviously what happens. But there was just I think
across the board, you know, you always felt that level
of you could go and talk to on a one
(24:44):
on one with an actor and you knew that whatever
you were talking about was always kept secret and it
was just between the two of you, you know. Walking
into editing, we could always talk to them, and they
were always great about showing us stuff that was being
edited together of what we had shot before. And the
(25:04):
doors in the writer's office were always open. We could
always walk upstairs and walk in on them and they would,
you know, greet you, Oh hey, Laver, and how you doing,
you know, blah blah blah blah, And then I would
be like, I'm so sorry, I'm interrupting in the middle
of writing, but I had this question. So I always
felt like there was an open door policy for everybody
across the board. Is that unique? Very unique? And I
(25:26):
think I think it's because of the actors that we had,
the crew that we had, because we were only really
located in two buildings that we had to like just
cross a parking lot to go into editing or the
writers or whatever. And when you work in these bigger studios,
as you know, you know, Universal, Warren Brothers, whatever, everything's
kind of spread out all over the place, and I
(25:48):
feel like everybody was always open to listen to you.
They never were like, oh god, I don't have the
time right now, you know. I always felt like there
was an open door policy. See. Yeah. Eventually, once we
sort of broke the CEO with the big super Bowl episode,
then we started getting some big guest stars. Do you
(26:10):
have any specific recollections about any of those guys? Well,
we had Draws Elva, we had Cathy Bates, we had
Will Ferrell, Will Ferrell, James Spader, Yeah, James Spader. Oh gosh,
James Spader so funny, so many times, like talking about
times of when he grew up and you know, just
funny intimate points in time. Cathy Bates, I couldn't help
(26:33):
it to be in awe because you know, she's one
of my favorite actresses. And so I was like, do
I say something? Do I not say something? Is it
going to be professional? Is it not going to be professional?
And I couldn't help it to be like, oh my gosh,
I just have to save us and I'm sorry, and
I don't mean it to come out to be unprofessional,
but I have to tell you how much I love you,
(26:53):
And you know, she just had a big smile on
her face. And I feel like all those actors that
we had that came in, whether they came in, you know,
for one time, or came in for five episodes or
you know, however many episodes. We always had such a
great group of guest stars. And Will I had known
from before, you know, doing a movie called Stranger Than
(27:14):
Fiction with him, and so when he came onto the
office I was like, oh, my gosh, here he is again.
So it's funny how it's like you'll you'll work with
an actor and then you may not see him for
a really long time for whatever reasons. Then all of
a sudden, you see him again. You're like, hey, what's
going on? Okay? I know, well, because the relationship is
(27:35):
real and it's it's intimate, and I mean obviously your
relationships with people that you work with for longer recognize you.
And then there's others where you're thinking to yourself, do
they really recognize me or they just like trying to
put it together, like where did I work with them on? Oh?
For sure, and for sure, by the way, I've done that,
(27:56):
Like people, who did you do that? Like when you
saw me today the ship? No, no, but I it
doesn't matter what job because you don't know or care.
But I there was some job recently. No, not really
because I won't remember any of the details now because
I didn't know who she was. But I went somewhere
(28:17):
and it wasn't Debbie or Kid or Jerry Berry or
Kenneth Paul or anybody else, but there was someone she
was like, Oh I worked on the show. UM. Oh wow,
I'm so what show did you work on? And if
she had said the office, I would have been like, oh,
of course she was like the office, and I was, oh, no,
I mean my light was on, but there was nobody
(28:40):
home up there. I didn't know. I was like, I don't.
But you know, people who came on, you know, Day
played for two or three episodes one season, and then
they went on to something else they might remember. The
thing is is that sometimes, even as a makeup artist,
to all run into makeup artists and they go, don't
you remember I was on your show? And I'm thinking, no,
(29:01):
I've never seen you before in my body. We've talked
(29:23):
to some people about probably one of the toughest times,
sort of most emotional times for us on the show, UM,
which was the writer's strike and us losing a hundred
days in there, and we came back and made up
some afterward. But do you remember anything about the difficulty
(29:46):
of that time? And I specifically remember where we were
shooting when we were told that the writers were going
to go on strike. Um, we were on location. We
were shooting it, I believe jim apartment, and if I
remember correctly, the trailers were parked along the street. It
(30:06):
was b J and Mindy's trailers right there. Obviously they
were the writers or some of the writers, and everybody
was a little bit nervous about going ahead a writer's strike.
But then we were told, we really apologize that we
have to do this, but this is what we have
to do. You know. It was like, we have to
(30:28):
do this because we have to state, we have to
make a point, but we also want you to know
that you're appreciated. And you know, getting a check out
of Greg daniels personal checking account to each crew member,
what was that? Yeah, we were am I allowed to
(30:48):
talk about that? Okay? Greg Daniels went into his personal
checking account and wrote the crew each an individual check
because we were to be out of work. I mean,
you knew that it was his personal checking account, because
when you received the check, it had the address up
(31:12):
in the corner. And then we got another check after
that from you. Remember how you guys always used to
as cast members, always thought of a Christmas gift for
the crew, and you guys also gave us money on
top of that. So there was just that loyalty. Sorry,
(31:36):
there's just that loyalty that came along with why wouldn't
you want to go ahead and keep working for these people?
You know, regardless of how long the strike is. You're
taking care of us now, So why wouldn't we go
ahead and do it later on? So it just strikes
it like my tears are more tears of joy because
(31:56):
I felt so appreciated at that point. And there were
people I spoke to even after that that said to me,
you know when we talked about the writer's strike, and
they were like, oh, you know, how was it on
the office, And I would tell them and people were
just like their jaws dropped to be like, that's pretty amazing. Yeah,
you know that you had your chief so to speak,
(32:20):
Greg Daniels, and your cast all come together and and
you knew that it was genuine and even to this day,
I have the utmost respect for him, you know, as
we all do. How do you not love Greg Daniels. Yeah, well,
one of the other things. It was just a time
when there were issues sort of happening across the board,
(32:42):
right with the actors and with the writers and the directors,
and the writer's contract came up first, and you know,
the fight that they were fighting was kind of like
across the board. But they, you know, we showed up
at work. We because I called them. They said, no,
you you have to go to work. You're not on strike.
(33:03):
You don't get to show. If you don't show up,
they can fire you or whatever else. And so we
all showed up to work. I remember being there and
then Steve I just didn't show up. And I found
out he got calls from the network and from lawyers
(33:24):
that said, you have to go to work. There's an
episode that's been written and you have to shoot it.
And he said no, no, And Greg, I think told me,
you know, he was getting calls from the network and Steve,
and he knew that there was a lot of pressure
on Steve, and he called Steve and said, you know,
(33:47):
how are you doing. Steve said, I'm fine. I'm here
playing with the kids. He was like, are you He
was like, no, I'm fine. How is it working with
him so intimately for for so many years? Oh my god.
Steve's a gem, as we know, always super professional. He'd
(34:10):
always come in, sit down, and I was always amazed
at the amount of dialogue that he had and how
like just a photographic memory, yeah, and how much he
could remember. But he would just like do it so effortlessly,
always and always, you know. I just remember certain times too.
(34:32):
I remember one time in particular which this always stood out,
and you'll remember it too. I can't remember what episode
it was, but we were shooting. All the actors were
in big coats and we had a limousine that we
had shot outside them on the other stages, and I
remember there were a couple of actors that were still
(34:54):
at Craft Service, and I remember Steve specifically went over
to Craft Service and said to them, you realize that
you're being disrespectful because you have a bunch of actors
that are standing outside in the boiling hot sun in
coats waiting for you while you're at Craft Service. I
love him. He's professional and just always on it and
(35:20):
just a real people person. And I think there is
something to be said about the fact that, um, you know,
when you have actors that start out and their careers
just take off as when they're young, opposed to as
they get older. I think, as you know, with Steve,
his career didn't start until he was a little bit older,
you know, not a teenager, and so he got it.
(35:44):
And he always was such a gentleman. We go on location,
we'd be getting out of a van. He would come
around and always put his hand out to help people
out of the van, had no problem carrying somebody's chair
their setback. Just I don't know, you know how we
all feel about Steve. Yeah, no, I know. Do you
(36:08):
remember hearing that he was leaving? Yes, I remember, And
we would have many conversations with him in the chair
and he would like love to push my buttons, and
you go, only six more episodes, only five more episodes,
and I go, shut up, don't talk about it. And
then when he actually did end up going ahead and leaving,
(36:33):
and how Nancy was there and how he had a
went down the list of each department and he had
a that's what she said moment, and I thought it
was brilliant how we retired number one on the call sheet.
When Steve left um and the dynamics of the show changed.
(36:55):
I think after Steve left, people started getting maybe a
little bit see, you know, are we going to do
an eighth season? Are we going to do a ninth season.
I kind of felt like Steve was the glue that
kind of kept everything together. And like you know, we
always say the speed of the team is a speed
(37:17):
of the leader, and I think in that respect, Steve
was definitely it was almost like everybody wanted to be
on really good behavior because Steve Grill was there right right,
even though it wasn't because he wasn't a big famous
star before. It wasn't it wasn't it was always Steve.
I mean, I know, you just made that joke, but
(37:38):
like it was Steve was there, and just the the
power of his generosity of spirit and work ethic and preparedness,
it was just like, oh, yeah, we can't screw this
up now, right, like if he yeah, exactly. It wasn't
like we went, oh, it's Steve Carrell, so we have
(37:59):
to be great behavior. It was like, oh, Steve, because
of the way he was, how professional he was how
prepared he was that everybody. It was like, you know,
having a teacher and all of your kids, and everybody
wants to make sure that you're all on good behavior
because the teachers coming in the room. So I think
that's kind of what it was. It had nothing to
(38:20):
do with whether, you know, Steve was a big superstar
or not a big superstar. Was more about the fact
that everybody, because of how he was, we all wanted
to not disappoint. So part of what we're talking about
here is that. And I don't know if you experience
it through your kids or anything else, but you know,
(38:42):
here we are, and we haven't filmed the show in
six years. Has it already been six years? Oh my god?
And right now it's the biggest show on television. I
can't even tell you how many times people just go, oh,
my gosh, my kids have watched all the episodes of
the Office. You worked on the Office, Oh my god,
(39:03):
it must have been so much fun. So, you know,
and they'll like almost kind of drill you, which in
a suite enduring way, not in like a bad way.
But I'm like, when I start thinking about it, I'm like,
how long has it been I'm like six years, like
it feels like just yesterday, and it's maybe just because
I've kept I've tried to make a conscious effort of
(39:24):
staying in touch with with certain people. You know. I've
kept in touch with Greg Daniels over the years. I've
kept in touch with Justin Spitzer over the years. I
did the pilot in the first season of Superstore with him.
You know. I kept in touch with Craig Robinson, silly Craig,
love him though. You know, we did a movie he
was guest starring, and then he said he was going
(39:45):
to be doing this, um his own show. I was like, Oh,
how's that going, because I had heard about it, like
a little bit of the rumbling right as we were
starting to finish the office. Yeah, He's I said, Oh
my gosh, that would be so fun to go ahead
and work on that. And then just blue, no phone call,
just an email from a producer saying, oh, I can
I send you the script for Craig Robinson's new show.
(40:08):
I'm thinking that was just so random, Like he didn't
even say, hey, do you want to do it? We
just got in touch with them, and then all of
a sudden, the script ended up in my email, what
what is working on the Office mean to you? I
wish that we could do it all over again. It
holds a very very special, um, a very special part
(40:30):
in my heart that you know, I don't think that,
but I said that also when Freaks and Geeks ended
that I don't know if we'll ever experience that again.
I hope. I do. You know certain actors that you
know I've kept in touch with a long way that
(40:50):
have been really supportive to me, And you were super
supportive to me when you know, he wanted me to
go ahead and stay on. So I feel, uh, you know,
I always like to stay in touch with you, and
then I feel like we'll always be friends. Um. But
it was just a very unique point in time where
(41:12):
I when I first got called to do this tiny
little show called The Office, I never thought it would
be the phenomenon that it ended up going ahead and being.
And now, as you're saying six years later, to then
realize that six years have already gone by, because like
I said, it really is like it just happened yesterday,
(41:34):
you know. Yeah, I mean, it holds a very very
special place in my heart. I feel a lot of loyalty,
and you know, would it be great to go ahead
and you know, get a group of us together to
to do something different. Absolutely, would I just be a static? Absolutely?
Would I stick through it if we had another writer
(41:54):
strike that they're anticipating. Absolutely, Yeah, It's just one of
those was great shows that you know. Now it's just
become such a cult following, like you know, looking over
there and seeing cheers like one of those, it definitely is.
Thank you so much for coming in. I feel like
(42:19):
it was just yesterday seeing your face, and I love
you and I will never ever ever take for granted
the relationship and the closest that I feel to you,
and all the time that we spent together. I know
(42:40):
I feel the same way. I remember that one time
that you were panicking because you couldn't get your daughter
from school, and you said to me, I need to
get her from school, and I said, well, I'll just
have somebody watch the set and I'll just drive there.
And I remember pulling up in my car with all
the school busses and telling her, come on, come along.
(43:03):
I got to take you back to work for your dad.
And anyway, you are one of my favorites. You already
know that, and uh, I absolutely love and adore you,
and I don't want another six years to pass before
I know you know under these circumstances. Well, there you
(43:33):
have it, folks, Laverne is amazing. Thank you so much
for coming on and sharing your story with all of us.
We all are the better for it. And to my listeners,
thank you so much as always for tuning in week
to week. Don't forget to leave me a review or
(43:54):
give me a shout on Instagram or Twitter. I'll be
back with another episode sooner than you think. All right,
circle back later this week, same time, same place, but
new interview for the other half of the crew that
made us look so good, the charming and talented Debbie
(44:15):
Pierce and Kim Ferry from the Office hair Department. They're
bringing on a new perspective to all of the behind
the scenes beauty of the office and trust me, you're
not gonna want to miss that one. So on that note,
I will bid you adieu, Potato Patano. Thank you so
(44:35):
much for listening everyone, and have a great one. The
Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me
Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior
producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers for this episode are
(44:57):
Liz Hayes and diego Topia. My main man in the
booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by Seth o'landskipper
Hi am Laverne Karacouz, and I was the department head
makeup artist on the Office. Hello everybody, and welcome back.
Uh it's a new week and that means it's time
for another episode of the Office Deep Dive. As always,
(00:28):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today we are bringing
on a guest that I don't have to make up
because she made me up. Because she does make up,
get it. She is also the one who made us
look fresh, well, sometimes made us look like we had
extremely bad sunburn or in my case my worst week
(00:51):
on the show, like Michael Moore, let me tell you,
fake hair on the face not comfortable. Uh. This woman
had all of the skill to give you a black
eye or to make you look good even if you were, say,
under a waterfall at Niagara Falls. Laverne Kara Kusi Laverne
(01:11):
was the makeup department head on the Office, which, let
me tell you, this was a huge task, right. We
had a huge cast, so there were a lot of
people to get ready every day and not a whole
lot of time. In fact, the battle plan she used
then is still used across the board on so many shows.
(01:33):
But she was so much more than that she was
a friend, a a therapist, a shoulder to lean on.
Really just someone to look forward to seeing every single day,
usually around five o'clock in the morning. And honestly, she
probably knows more secrets about the Office cast than anyone.
(01:55):
I mean, think about it. She got hours of one
on one time with all of the actors day in
and day out, just getting closer and closer all of
the time. But don't get any ideas our secrets are
definitely safe with her. You'll find her work on so
many shows, from Judging Amy to Monk to The West
(02:16):
Wing and Animal Kingdom. But perhaps her greatest professional achievement
thus far was getting her name on a Volunteer of
the Year plaque that was placed behind Creed's desk in
one of our episodes. So there's a fun little Easter
egg for you. But in all seriousness, Laverne I love her.
(02:37):
She was a joy to have on our crew. I
was so happy to reconnect with her for the first
time in many years. So get ready to be dolled
up with the one, the only Laverne Kara Kusi. I
(02:58):
love it. The Squiger Bubble and Squiager Cookie every moon
lift over from the nut before I know, it's been
(03:21):
so long. Oh my god, I'm so happy to see
my body. I knows changed. I remember when I used
to give you coffe. God, I have to put glasses
on too if I have to look at it to
look at No, you don't have to look at anything.
I just have to look at you. Now. You when? Okay?
(03:43):
When did you start on the Office? Okay? So I
started the Office when it was the pilot and the
first six episodes, which you guys considered to be a
first season, which in as we know in the normal
TV world, is not the first season. So I or
did after that sixth episode, So you you was just
(04:03):
the first six that you weren't there, correct? But I
was there from the very beginning, Like I remember specific things,
like I remember exactly where I was on the freeway
when my telephone rang and You're like, I hear You're
not coming back to the office. What's going on? And
you started talking to me and I was like, well,
(04:23):
I guess I'm not invited back. And then it started
this whole big thing. And then when I spoke to
Ken Zivornac, he was like, well, you know, Brian and
Leslie David, and I think it was mostly you two
were really rallying for me to go ahead and be there,
which I was so grateful for it. And then I
remember you and I were still on the phone even
(04:44):
by the time I got home, and I was kind
of like walking around in my front yard like thinking
about it, like, yeah, I still want to be there
if I'm welcome back there, you know. Right. And then
but what were you doing right before you did Freaking Geeks? Right?
I did Free some Geeks the shot that at Raley Hollywood,
and I always thought when I did Freaks and Geeks,
(05:05):
I always thought, God, what a great experience. Am I
ever going to experience this same kind of feeling again.
It's kind of like when you finish a job and
you go like, oh my god, am I ever going
to work again? Yeah? I feel that, But it was
that kind of feeling that I thought, Okay, Freaks and Geeks,
am I ever going to experience that again? And then,
(05:26):
as you know, we're like siblings, you know, everybody's almost
kind of arguing with one another, and it's like everybody
was getting in everybody else's business because they felt like
they were entitled because we had been around each other
for over twelve hours a day. I mean, that's the thing,
is that the the hair and makeup department. What people
don't realize maybe is like in terms of people on
(05:50):
the crew who are closest with the cast, there's nobody
closer because you you hear and see everything, right, I
think that hair and makeup are definitely the closest to
the cast. That's why I try to run as tight
of a ship as I can, where it's like, whatever
information you hear from anybody, regardless of who it is
(06:12):
that walks in and out of that door, is not
to be left from that trailer or to you know,
you know what I'm talking about. You know, I know, yes,
we're the first person you see in the morning, and
so you know, you could be having a bad day,
but at the end of the day you have to
leave that outside the trailer doors and kind of go
in with a smiley face, and then when everybody leaves,
(06:32):
you can break down in tears or whatever you need
to do. It's it's intimate work at times, you know,
to be working with someone on their face or an
issue that they might have or whatever else, and and
it it just sort of it's not intentional, and I
don't know, maybe it violates rules, but it does become
(06:54):
almost a therapist type situation too, when you're talking about
people's outside lives getting neglected at times, and you know,
the work being so important and on that show. I
think also the work was really important to everybody. Everybody
wanted to be good, not for themselves, but it really
(07:16):
was more a team. I feel like, I feel like
everybody wanted to be there. It wasn't like they were
forced to be there. It wasn't like, oh, I need
a job, so therefore I'm going to go ahead and
you know, just take this job. Everybody truly wanted to
be there. And you know, gosh, there were plenty of
times that not only did you know you have that
one on one with an actor where they're spilling their
(07:39):
guts to you, but you're also spilling your guts to
them because you feel that bond with them. I mean,
plenty of times, you know I had been in tears
for whatever reason, you know, I would be like, oh,
we'd just sit there and talk. It's almost like the
old timey hair salons, right, I mean, I understand you
did make up, but right like the or like the
(08:00):
barber shops or like you go in there and it's
this like safe zone that you can talk about anything absolutely,
because it's like when you see those old school movies,
you know, you see like the girls that are in
the nail salons and they're getting their nails done and
they're talking very privately to their person that's doing their nails. Right,
(08:22):
that's what we did. You guys came in early in
the morning, and because we had everybody working and up
at one time, we pretty much had everybody in the trailer.
And even when we didn't, you guys would still go
back to your trailer and do something, and you knew
your friends were going to come in an hour later.
So we'd always have like this big commotion of things
kind of going on in the trailer and always have
the A. D s come in there and say, okay,
(08:43):
how much longer, how much longer? Well, we have to
finish this story, and then we'd listen to Rain and
Oscar go back and forth at one another. Yeah, that's
what people don't realizes, you know. On our show. By
the end, we had four cup artists and four hair people. Right. Well,
(09:04):
we originally started out the show where they thought that
we could go ahead and get everybody ready at one time,
would just I think it started out two and two,
and then it was like, oh, well, we'll just go
ahead and have three and three, and then it was
like four and four and then remember we had that chart.
It was our battle plan where it was color coded
(09:24):
as to what actor was going to get their makeup
done and who was going to get their hair done,
and then the swapping of the chairs and they were
done in fifteen minute increments, which makes me laugh now
because since after The Office, I've gone on to other
shows where they have that same chart and they'll go, oh,
we have a battle plan, and I go, oh, well,
that's interesting because I think you took that from our
(09:45):
show way back. When it's kind of like when you
see these shows that are doing, you know, talking heads,
I'm like, oh, really the talking Heads started originally with us.
I almost kind of get a little bit territorial, right. Well,
we had I mean, at times like sixteen to twenty
actors that needed to be ready at the same time,
(10:06):
So there are four you know, there's four hair and
four makeup and then people have to flip flop. But
that's still only eight people, so you guys would create
this grid that people had to start coming in at
you know, five o'clock, four thirty in the morning just
to get everybody ready on time, right exactly. And there
was no type of buffer scene like a normal TV
(10:30):
so to speak. Not that our show wasn't normal TV,
but you never had like those buffer scenes where you
could go like, oh, let's go ahead and get half
the people ready, and then we have a buffer scene
to then go ahead and get more people ready. It
was like our buffer scene was a talking head and
that literally, as you know, was only one person. So
that only gave us a certain amount of time. So
I thank the office for that very reason because it's
(10:52):
forced me as an artist to go ahead and really
gain my speed because when they'll be like, oh, we
have eight people we need to get ready, I was like, ah,
that's a walk in the park. I can go ahead
and do that. We used to get sixteen and twenty
people ready at one time. How did you get into makeup? Um? Well,
I always painted a kid, you know. I used to
(11:14):
go with my face just painted, so I knew like
the idea of like color theory and how like different
materials kind of worked with each other. And I would
walk from my house in Toluca Lake to this woman's
house and she used to paint in her garage, and
uh so that kind of started. And I always wanted
to be in the arts in one capacity or another.
(11:36):
And then after I graduated high school, I went to
community college, and then I moved to London, and then
I got a degree in fashion design, and then I
still kind of dabbled a little bit in the arts
and you know, doing makeup and stuff like that. I
started originally doing commercials and I worked with one director
for many, many years um in commercials. And then my
(11:57):
first real TV job with Freaks and Geeks. And Freaks
and Geeks was where I met Paul Fie and Jake
Kasden and Seth Rogan and on and on and on.
So how did you get that job? I got that
job from I was doing a commercial and in between
going ahead and doing commercials, I had been day playing
(12:19):
on movies and TV stuff, and a friend of mine
called me and said, Hey, by the way, I need
somebody to work with me on this new TV show
called Freaks and Geeks. It's really simple makeup. These kids
are young and I thought, okay, and so I had
to be really straightforward and said, well, I just want
to let you know that I'm pregnant with my first daughter.
(12:40):
I would love to go ahead and do the show.
So basically, I that's how I got the job, and
I did Freaks and Geeks and um got to know
everybody there. Then I had the baby in January, and
then you know, years later I started running into like
Linda Cardelini and Jason Siegel and people like that, and
they would always ask how Vannah doing, How Savannah doing,
(13:01):
and just because I was, you know, pregnant with her
and I had worked the whole show being pregnant, So
that was like a special moment for me. Whereas it
was like even on the office when I would see
like Angela being pregnant, it reminded me of when I
went back to Freaking Geeks and when I was pregnant,
right right, and the hair and makeup world, I mean,
(13:25):
it really is about the relationships, right, Like you met
this makeup artist who brought you onto Freaking Geeks, and
then you you meet people and that's how it happens, right,
it pretty much does. I mean, I feel if you
have a good attitude. It's really about relationships because, as
we know, there's a lot of you know, jobs that
you often say to yourself, I wonder how they got
(13:49):
that job, you know what I mean. And that's no
disrespect to anybody. It's just the way that it is.
You know, if you are a people person and you
can do your job sufficiently, you know, and you have
a good attitude, then obviously you're going to get brought
onto the next one. Right. Yeah, do you remember anything
(14:09):
about those early years and we had did six episodes
and then we did six more and we were sent home.
And I mean, it occurs to me that the tremendous
amount of trust and courage that you showed kind of
stick with it over periods where you know, we were
(14:30):
working oddly and we didn't know if we were going
to keep going, but there was a trust in you
to kind of stick with it through that time. Well.
I just kind of feel as freelancers, whether you're above
the line or below the line, you're a gypsy. You
take your stuff, you show up at work. You know,
you don't know. I've been on plenty of shows prior
to the office where they're like, okay, we shoot up
(14:51):
till Christmas, you know, and then sometimes they would come
to you and be like, oh, sorry, it was picked
up for the back nine, but now we're canceled, you
know what I mean, But they're was I think it
goes back to the whole trust thing. I just always
felt like, you know, especially with Greg being our leader,
I always felt that he was always so genuine and
(15:12):
he would have said if there was anything that he
could foresee that was coming up, that he would have
said something to us. But I loved the whole cast,
so there was no reason for me not to be
excited about coming back. It didn't matter which way you went,
because it was always an uncertainty, you know. I don't
(15:34):
know if that's just something that we as individuals in
this business thrive on, like oh gosh, you know that
almost like an angst all the time, right right right
right right, you know. And I truly believe that if
you're good at what you do, you will always be
provided for. It may not be the ideal job, but
you don't know who you're going to meet along the
(15:55):
way that's going to go ahead and take you onto
the next thing, or not sure what differences are there
(16:21):
between being a makeup artist in fashion or whatever, like
what makes TV and film different and or why do
you like to do that or why have you chosen
to do that? I think that compared to say fashion
or commercials, you work at a completely different pace. Whereas
(16:42):
in television and film, as you know, we don't shoot,
you know, day one, night one, day two, so you
have to remember continuity basis. So when it comes to,
say a commercial, it's like I'm getting somebody ready and
I'm doing their makeup for a taco bell commercial, you'll,
let's say, But when you're doing television or film, there's
(17:05):
sometimes script wise where you may get them ready for
day one and then say day two, there's something specifically scripted,
like a person gets hit in the face with the
ball and they need to have a black eye, or
you know, they have a split lip or whatever it
happens to be. So you have to be really diligent
and stay on top of it, and you're also you
(17:26):
have a script that you're going by in television and
film opposed to fashion or commercials. But also in the
fashion world sometimes it's super high fashion, so it's thinking
outside the box opposed to going ahead and doing maybe
a straight makeup. It just all depends. And then there's
(17:47):
also differences between going ahead and doing a regular beauty
makeup opposed to doing special effects makeup or you know,
sometimes a tattoo is required, or I mean, you know
how it was when we did our certain episodes of
the Office where it would be like, oh, it's Halloween,
so and so it is gonna look like blah blah
blah blah, you're gonna make me miserable by by putting
(18:07):
by putting hair all over my face as Michael Moore.
But oh my gosh, because I had ahead, I had
to listen to you wine about the fact that I
had to have this stuff on my face one more time. However, okay,
now listen when your manager saw you, what was the
(18:31):
response that your manager had to say? Oh my god,
I thought that was Michael Moore. So I rest my case. Well,
here's the thing. People think you guys are nice and
you all you do is torture us. That's really, That's
what it is. No. I it's so crazy because on
the Office, so much of it was straight makeup, you know,
(18:53):
and downplayed, and you know, them not wanting to come
in or touch up or do anything because they wanted
this very sort of realistic look. But along with that,
there was a lot of crazy stuff that you guys
had to do in terms of that, or in terms
of injuries or when Kate got burned because she fell
asleep from yeah burned or yeah, I mean that must
(19:17):
make it fun, right? Oh? Absolutely? Every time I would
look at the script, I'd get super excited and be like, Oh,
what's in the script this week? And I always knew
that when Halloween rolled around that there was always going
to be something fun to actually do. But also to
there's like this misconception of when people say to you,
we want no makeup, Okay, well you need to be
(19:37):
a little bit more specific when you say no makeup.
There's a difference between a no makeup look where you're
actually putting on makeup but making them look like they
don't have makeup, opposed to not putting anything on their face. Right,
what was this specific direction that you were given in
terms of how the character should look. They're supposed to
look natural their everyday people that work in an office.
(19:59):
Also to keeping in mind Scranton. Because of Scranton, there's
a very different everyday look in Scranton as there would
be to an everyday look in l A or New
York or Dallas or wherever it happened to be. So
I think, you know, we never got any notes saying,
oh it's too much. You know, when we go into
do a you know myself as an artist, somebody sits
(20:21):
in your chair and you kind of look at them
and you're given the direction of natural. You then at
that point say, okay, do I just conceal under their eyes?
Are we going to keep the facial hair? We're going
to shave the facial hair. Are we're gonna whatever it
happens to be. Are there eyebrows to light that we
might have to darken a mint a bit. I think
that Greg was so great at going ahead and giving
(20:42):
saying a natural look, but then not micromanaging, you know
what I mean. He let us go ahead and have
a free range within parameters of what it was that
we as individuals felt. And you know, Greg, he was
always such a great leader. I mean, how do you
not of him? And you know, we had a little
bit of leeway and we just kind he kind of
(21:03):
left it up to us. Um, you know, because obviously
when you're in a trailer, going ahead and getting people
ready is very different to when you then take them
outside onto the set, of which I'm a huge advocate for.
If you're in a trailer, you try to go ahead
and have your lighting set up to how your lighting
(21:23):
is on the inside of a set. Did you do that? Yeah,
we would. We would call in the electric department when
we would start the new season and say, we need
to pull these lights because they don't hold the trailer
from season to season. So we would have the electrical
department come in take those lights out because they'd always
put in those lovely fluorescence and put in what was
(21:46):
color accurate to what it was that we were actually
shooting inside the set. And then there were some times
that because you know, certain people were always sitting in
front of a computer, sometimes having certain colors on a
computer inter screen always plays a little bit with the
coloring on people, skin tones, underneath their eyes, any little
(22:07):
things that you maybe want to color correct. So we
would have a collaboration, or I did with Steve hutch
to go ahead and make sure you turn the screen
to white so that you almost are blowing out the
color in somebody's face, and then it will be my
job as an artist to go in and deposit the
color back into the face because the blue would be
(22:29):
really throwing you off. Right, that's so interesting. I had
no idea that you guys were doing that with the
electric department. That's that's super cool. I mean, that makes
that makes a lot of sense. Well, I try to
go ahead, and I figured that out kind of early on,
and I do that now moving forward on different shows.
(22:51):
I try to be, you know, go to the electrical
department and be like, oh, by the way, can you
just let me know what it is, what type of
lighting you're using on set, so that uh, you're not
having to go ahead and make corrections. It's like, why
go ahead and make a step forward and then have
to go a step back right. And obviously, if you
know we're shooting outside or you know, in a different location,
(23:12):
like things are going to change. But when you have
a show like ours that takes place largely in this
one space, obviously they know the gist of how it's lit.
I think that there were times that you know, I
would we would be so early in the morning and
they would take us on our little road trips down
you know that one street that We would always drive
down um or we would be shooting on the back
(23:34):
side of the stages to implement wherever it was that
we were supposed to be shooting, and you'd put a
foundation on somebody's face and then you'd get outside and it,
you know, takes a minute for the skin to warm
up and for everything to kind of settle. And then
there were times that I would get people outside and
be like, oh, no, what have I done? I think
I need to correct us a little bit because this
doesn't look quite right. How is the office different than
(23:59):
any show you had been on before that? Do you
remember anything different? I just felt there was always that
great feeling of of being with your family. You know,
you're away from your family all the time we would
walk into the trailer, there was always that feeling of like, oh,
there's my there's my other brother, there's my other sister,
(24:22):
and you know how it was like over nine years,
of course, there's going to be those things that we
all like, we all start getting in each other's business,
and that's just what happens. I mean over nine nine years,
that's obviously what happens. But there was just I think
across the board, you know, you always felt that level
of you could go and talk to on a one
(24:44):
on one with an actor and you knew that whatever
you were talking about was always kept secret and it
was just between the two of you, you know. Walking
into editing, we could always talk to them, and they
were always great about showing us stuff that was being
edited together of what we had shot before. And the
(25:04):
doors in the writer's office were always open. We could
always walk upstairs and walk in on them and they would,
you know, greet you, Oh hey, Laver, and how you doing,
you know, blah blah blah blah, And then I would
be like, I'm so sorry, I'm interrupting in the middle
of writing, but I had this question. So I always
felt like there was an open door policy for everybody
across the board. Is that unique? Very unique? And I
(25:26):
think I think it's because of the actors that we had,
the crew that we had, because we were only really
located in two buildings that we had to like just
cross a parking lot to go into editing or the
writers or whatever. And when you work in these bigger studios,
as you know, you know, Universal, Warren Brothers, whatever, everything's
kind of spread out all over the place, and I
(25:48):
feel like everybody was always open to listen to you.
They never were like, oh god, I don't have the
time right now, you know. I always felt like there
was an open door policy. See. Yeah. Eventually, once we
sort of broke the CEO with the big super Bowl episode,
then we started getting some big guest stars. Do you
(26:10):
have any specific recollections about any of those guys? Well,
we had Draws Elva, we had Cathy Bates, we had
Will Ferrell, Will Ferrell, James Spader, Yeah, James Spader. Oh gosh,
James Spader so funny, so many times, like talking about
times of when he grew up and you know, just
funny intimate points in time. Cathy Bates, I couldn't help
(26:33):
it to be in awe because you know, she's one
of my favorite actresses. And so I was like, do
I say something? Do I not say something? Is it
going to be professional? Is it not going to be professional?
And I couldn't help it to be like, oh my gosh,
I just have to save us and I'm sorry, and
I don't mean it to come out to be unprofessional,
but I have to tell you how much I love you,
(26:53):
And you know, she just had a big smile on
her face. And I feel like all those actors that
we had that came in, whether they came in, you know,
for one time, or came in for five episodes or
you know, however many episodes. We always had such a
great group of guest stars. And Will I had known
from before, you know, doing a movie called Stranger Than
(27:14):
Fiction with him, and so when he came onto the
office I was like, oh, my gosh, here he is again.
So it's funny how it's like you'll you'll work with
an actor and then you may not see him for
a really long time for whatever reasons. Then all of
a sudden, you see him again. You're like, hey, what's
going on? Okay? I know, well, because the relationship is
(27:35):
real and it's it's intimate, and I mean obviously your
relationships with people that you work with for longer recognize you.
And then there's others where you're thinking to yourself, do
they really recognize me or they just like trying to
put it together, like where did I work with them on? Oh?
For sure, and for sure, by the way, I've done that,
(27:56):
Like people, who did you do that? Like when you
saw me today the ship? No, no, but I it
doesn't matter what job because you don't know or care.
But I there was some job recently. No, not really
because I won't remember any of the details now because
I didn't know who she was. But I went somewhere
(28:17):
and it wasn't Debbie or Kid or Jerry Berry or
Kenneth Paul or anybody else, but there was someone she
was like, Oh I worked on the show. UM. Oh wow,
I'm so what show did you work on? And if
she had said the office, I would have been like, oh,
of course she was like the office, and I was, oh, no,
I mean my light was on, but there was nobody
(28:40):
home up there. I didn't know. I was like, I don't.
But you know, people who came on, you know, Day
played for two or three episodes one season, and then
they went on to something else they might remember. The
thing is is that sometimes, even as a makeup artist,
to all run into makeup artists and they go, don't
you remember I was on your show? And I'm thinking, no,
(29:01):
I've never seen you before in my body. We've talked
(29:23):
to some people about probably one of the toughest times,
sort of most emotional times for us on the show, UM,
which was the writer's strike and us losing a hundred
days in there, and we came back and made up
some afterward. But do you remember anything about the difficulty
(29:46):
of that time? And I specifically remember where we were
shooting when we were told that the writers were going
to go on strike. Um, we were on location. We
were shooting it, I believe jim apartment, and if I
remember correctly, the trailers were parked along the street. It
(30:06):
was b J and Mindy's trailers right there. Obviously they
were the writers or some of the writers, and everybody
was a little bit nervous about going ahead a writer's strike.
But then we were told, we really apologize that we
have to do this, but this is what we have
to do. You know. It was like, we have to
(30:28):
do this because we have to state, we have to
make a point, but we also want you to know
that you're appreciated. And you know, getting a check out
of Greg daniels personal checking account to each crew member,
what was that? Yeah, we were am I allowed to
(30:48):
talk about that? Okay? Greg Daniels went into his personal
checking account and wrote the crew each an individual check
because we were to be out of work. I mean,
you knew that it was his personal checking account, because
when you received the check, it had the address up
(31:12):
in the corner. And then we got another check after
that from you. Remember how you guys always used to
as cast members, always thought of a Christmas gift for
the crew, and you guys also gave us money on
top of that. So there was just that loyalty. Sorry,
(31:36):
there's just that loyalty that came along with why wouldn't
you want to go ahead and keep working for these people?
You know, regardless of how long the strike is. You're
taking care of us now, So why wouldn't we go
ahead and do it later on? So it just strikes
it like my tears are more tears of joy because
(31:56):
I felt so appreciated at that point. And there were
people I spoke to even after that that said to me,
you know when we talked about the writer's strike, and
they were like, oh, you know, how was it on
the office, And I would tell them and people were
just like their jaws dropped to be like, that's pretty amazing. Yeah,
you know that you had your chief so to speak,
(32:20):
Greg Daniels, and your cast all come together and and
you knew that it was genuine and even to this day,
I have the utmost respect for him, you know, as
we all do. How do you not love Greg Daniels. Yeah, well,
one of the other things. It was just a time
when there were issues sort of happening across the board,
(32:42):
right with the actors and with the writers and the directors,
and the writer's contract came up first, and you know,
the fight that they were fighting was kind of like
across the board. But they, you know, we showed up
at work. We because I called them. They said, no,
you you have to go to work. You're not on strike.
(33:03):
You don't get to show. If you don't show up,
they can fire you or whatever else. And so we
all showed up to work. I remember being there and
then Steve I just didn't show up. And I found
out he got calls from the network and from lawyers
(33:24):
that said, you have to go to work. There's an
episode that's been written and you have to shoot it.
And he said no, no, And Greg, I think told me,
you know, he was getting calls from the network and Steve,
and he knew that there was a lot of pressure
on Steve, and he called Steve and said, you know,
(33:47):
how are you doing. Steve said, I'm fine. I'm here
playing with the kids. He was like, are you He
was like, no, I'm fine. How is it working with
him so intimately for for so many years? Oh my god.
Steve's a gem, as we know, always super professional. He'd
(34:10):
always come in, sit down, and I was always amazed
at the amount of dialogue that he had and how
like just a photographic memory, yeah, and how much he
could remember. But he would just like do it so effortlessly,
always and always, you know. I just remember certain times too.
(34:32):
I remember one time in particular which this always stood out,
and you'll remember it too. I can't remember what episode
it was, but we were shooting. All the actors were
in big coats and we had a limousine that we
had shot outside them on the other stages, and I
remember there were a couple of actors that were still
(34:54):
at Craft Service, and I remember Steve specifically went over
to Craft Service and said to them, you realize that
you're being disrespectful because you have a bunch of actors
that are standing outside in the boiling hot sun in
coats waiting for you while you're at Craft Service. I
love him. He's professional and just always on it and
(35:20):
just a real people person. And I think there is
something to be said about the fact that, um, you know,
when you have actors that start out and their careers
just take off as when they're young, opposed to as
they get older. I think, as you know, with Steve,
his career didn't start until he was a little bit older,
you know, not a teenager, and so he got it.
(35:44):
And he always was such a gentleman. We go on location,
we'd be getting out of a van. He would come
around and always put his hand out to help people
out of the van, had no problem carrying somebody's chair
their setback. Just I don't know, you know how we
all feel about Steve. Yeah, no, I know. Do you
(36:08):
remember hearing that he was leaving? Yes, I remember, And
we would have many conversations with him in the chair
and he would like love to push my buttons, and
you go, only six more episodes, only five more episodes,
and I go, shut up, don't talk about it. And
then when he actually did end up going ahead and leaving,
(36:33):
and how Nancy was there and how he had a
went down the list of each department and he had
a that's what she said moment, and I thought it
was brilliant how we retired number one on the call sheet.
When Steve left um and the dynamics of the show changed.
(36:55):
I think after Steve left, people started getting maybe a
little bit see, you know, are we going to do
an eighth season? Are we going to do a ninth season.
I kind of felt like Steve was the glue that
kind of kept everything together. And like you know, we
always say the speed of the team is a speed
(37:17):
of the leader, and I think in that respect, Steve
was definitely it was almost like everybody wanted to be
on really good behavior because Steve Grill was there right right,
even though it wasn't because he wasn't a big famous
star before. It wasn't it wasn't it was always Steve.
I mean, I know, you just made that joke, but
(37:38):
like it was Steve was there, and just the the
power of his generosity of spirit and work ethic and preparedness,
it was just like, oh, yeah, we can't screw this
up now, right, like if he yeah, exactly. It wasn't
like we went, oh, it's Steve Carrell, so we have
(37:59):
to be great behavior. It was like, oh, Steve, because
of the way he was, how professional he was how
prepared he was that everybody. It was like, you know,
having a teacher and all of your kids, and everybody
wants to make sure that you're all on good behavior
because the teachers coming in the room. So I think
that's kind of what it was. It had nothing to
(38:20):
do with whether, you know, Steve was a big superstar
or not a big superstar. Was more about the fact
that everybody, because of how he was, we all wanted
to not disappoint. So part of what we're talking about
here is that. And I don't know if you experience
it through your kids or anything else, but you know,
(38:42):
here we are, and we haven't filmed the show in
six years. Has it already been six years? Oh my god?
And right now it's the biggest show on television. I
can't even tell you how many times people just go, oh,
my gosh, my kids have watched all the episodes of
the Office. You worked on the Office, Oh my god,
(39:03):
it must have been so much fun. So, you know,
and they'll like almost kind of drill you, which in
a suite enduring way, not in like a bad way.
But I'm like, when I start thinking about it, I'm like,
how long has it been I'm like six years, like
it feels like just yesterday, and it's maybe just because
I've kept I've tried to make a conscious effort of
(39:24):
staying in touch with with certain people. You know. I've
kept in touch with Greg Daniels over the years. I've
kept in touch with Justin Spitzer over the years. I
did the pilot in the first season of Superstore with him.
You know. I kept in touch with Craig Robinson, silly Craig,
love him though. You know, we did a movie he
was guest starring, and then he said he was going
(39:45):
to be doing this, um his own show. I was like, Oh,
how's that going, because I had heard about it, like
a little bit of the rumbling right as we were
starting to finish the office. Yeah, He's I said, Oh
my gosh, that would be so fun to go ahead
and work on that. And then just blue, no phone call,
just an email from a producer saying, oh, I can
I send you the script for Craig Robinson's new show.
(40:08):
I'm thinking that was just so random, Like he didn't
even say, hey, do you want to do it? We
just got in touch with them, and then all of
a sudden, the script ended up in my email, what
what is working on the Office mean to you? I
wish that we could do it all over again. It
holds a very very special, um, a very special part
(40:30):
in my heart that you know, I don't think that,
but I said that also when Freaks and Geeks ended
that I don't know if we'll ever experience that again.
I hope. I do. You know certain actors that you
know I've kept in touch with a long way that
(40:50):
have been really supportive to me, And you were super
supportive to me when you know, he wanted me to
go ahead and stay on. So I feel, uh, you know,
I always like to stay in touch with you, and
then I feel like we'll always be friends. Um. But
it was just a very unique point in time where
(41:12):
I when I first got called to do this tiny
little show called The Office, I never thought it would
be the phenomenon that it ended up going ahead and being.
And now, as you're saying six years later, to then
realize that six years have already gone by, because like
I said, it really is like it just happened yesterday,
(41:34):
you know. Yeah, I mean, it holds a very very
special place in my heart. I feel a lot of loyalty,
and you know, would it be great to go ahead
and you know, get a group of us together to
to do something different. Absolutely, would I just be a static? Absolutely?
Would I stick through it if we had another writer
(41:54):
strike that they're anticipating. Absolutely, Yeah, It's just one of
those was great shows that you know. Now it's just
become such a cult following, like you know, looking over
there and seeing cheers like one of those, it definitely is.
Thank you so much for coming in. I feel like
(42:19):
it was just yesterday seeing your face, and I love
you and I will never ever ever take for granted
the relationship and the closest that I feel to you,
and all the time that we spent together. I know
(42:40):
I feel the same way. I remember that one time
that you were panicking because you couldn't get your daughter
from school, and you said to me, I need to
get her from school, and I said, well, I'll just
have somebody watch the set and I'll just drive there.
And I remember pulling up in my car with all
the school busses and telling her, come on, come along.
(43:03):
I got to take you back to work for your dad.
And anyway, you are one of my favorites. You already
know that, and uh, I absolutely love and adore you,
and I don't want another six years to pass before
I know you know under these circumstances. Well, there you
(43:33):
have it, folks, Laverne is amazing. Thank you so much
for coming on and sharing your story with all of us.
We all are the better for it. And to my listeners,
thank you so much as always for tuning in week
to week. Don't forget to leave me a review or
(43:54):
give me a shout on Instagram or Twitter. I'll be
back with another episode sooner than you think. All right,
circle back later this week, same time, same place, but
new interview for the other half of the crew that
made us look so good, the charming and talented Debbie
(44:15):
Pierce and Kim Ferry from the Office hair Department. They're
bringing on a new perspective to all of the behind
the scenes beauty of the office and trust me, you're
not gonna want to miss that one. So on that note,
I will bid you adieu, Potato Patano. Thank you so
(44:35):
much for listening everyone, and have a great one. The
Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by me
Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior
producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers for this episode are
(44:57):
Liz Hayes and diego Topia. My main man in the
booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by Seth o'landskipper
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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