Tom Cavanagh

Famously Canadian actor Tom Cavanagh gets what he’s been waiting for - to be a guest on Off The Beat. He uses the opportunity to tell Brian about his screen-less childhood in Africa, being the worst singer in every musical he’s ever done, and playing the same character many different ways on The Flash.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bateman goes in and silence and I'm like that sucks,
you know. He walks out. He's like verbatim, now I
won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me
the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.
The laughter is deafening. Like they just he's the funniest
guy ever, you know what I mean. And they poke

(00:21):
the heads out and they look at Jason and like
you guys can go, you know, like, okay, thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
My name is Tom Cavanaugh, and Brian is an equal
opportunity employer because he's hired me, a Canadian, to be
on his podcast. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello everybody, and welcome back. Thank you for joining us
on a very special episode of Off the Beat. He's
gonna be a wild and bumpy ride. I can assure
you that I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. But more importantly,
my guest today is Well, he's very, very impressive. Some

(01:11):
might even say he's a superhero. Okay, well not a superhero,
but a super villain. That's right with me today is
The Flashes. Tom Cavanaugh aka Sherlock Wells aka Reverse Flash
aka Harrison wells, Tom is well, he's amazing. He is

(01:33):
so amazing that he plays multiple versions of his character
on the Flash. Now. I don't even know what the
alter egos of Kevin Malone would look like, but hey,
I guess, I guess I'll have to ask Tom today.
He's going to get into all of it, from his
early days working in Canada, to joining the cast of

(01:55):
Ed with our old friend Julie Bowen, to starring on Broadway,
to his new game show. Hey, Yahoo, man, he can
he can do it all. He can do it all,
he can play it all, and he can make me laugh.
Here we go. Everybody, buckle up, Tom Kavanaugh, Bubble and Squeak.

(02:21):
I love it. Bubble and Squeak.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
I know.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Bubble and Squeaker Cook.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Get every moment lift over from the nine before.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Hi, Tom, Hey, how are you?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
How's the guy?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean, the guy's okay today? How how's the guy?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
He's good today?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
He's good.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I'm not complaining.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Oh that's good. Nobody will care anyway, Nobody. They don't care.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
They say they care if it is advantageous to their positioning,
but they don't really care.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
No, they don't care at all. Why would they care.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
They well they care because you're famous, Brian. But that's
just again, that's just that's just trying to that's their
own agenda. They're advancing their position. You know.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well that makes some sense for them, right.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
So it's like me and Obama. It's the same thing
that everybody they they don't want me, they want to
talk to the president. It's the same I get you
get used to you know how it is.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I get it. No, I totally get it.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Align yourself with the president and everybody wants a crash
on your count that's how that goes.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, no, exactly. By the way, can we get him
on next week?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah? Look, I'm just gonna I'll talk to I'll talk
to be okay. You know, like he's one of those
guys he's gonna say yes to everything, okay, And then
his people are going to contact you. They're gonna be
like Barrock loves your podcast. Like you'll get him on,
for sure, you'll get him on. Yeah, But does it happen?

(04:04):
Does it happen next week? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, maybe maybe not.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I'm not saying no,
I'm going to put in a good word, but does
it happen next week? No guarantee.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I mean, look, I have seen a letter that he
wrote that says Thursday night is the office nights at
the White House. Well I've I've seen the note.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right, Well then I feel like I feel that I
feel next week is a shoe in. Something must have
slipped through the tracks for him to not have done
it already.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
I know, or he hasn't been invited yet. Maybe we
Maybe it's a simple as that, maybe that should happen.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
He's a wiling way. He's like twiddling his thumbs, biting
his time, just kind of like not trying to be
a dick about it, Like sure those guys will.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Give me an invitement some point in time.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I know, like he's basically how I was up until today.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, now time and now it's here, and now it's here.
Here we are actually we're basically blood brothers. That's the
wrong term, but I'm not going to use the other one.
Julie Bowen, I was Julie Bowen's on screen love interest
right immediately following You done.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And she was very clear, she was very clear to
me that I was a rung on a ladder. She
was very upfront about it, because if you know Julie,
you know she's honest. She's like, I'm going places.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, you know it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
You, Brian, and then if I have a shot at it,
Tiberell and so.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
And so.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
I just respect the honesty, right, Like she's like a
gal's got to start somewhere. Nice to meet you. I'm
Julie Bowen, ivy league educated, swear like a sailor, smart
as they come, swip snap.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah and then see you later. Yeah that is that
is so true. Swear It's like a sailor but super smart. Yeah,
she's like a whole bunch of things and delightful. All right,
enough about Barack and Julie Bowen. You famously, I would say,
famously grew up.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
No matter what you say next, it's not going to
be true. Yeah, famously you proceed Tom Cavanaugh and then
famously it's just like all you're out like you're across
a big X. Grew up in Canada, Sure I did,
but not famously.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I knew that
before I actually researched. I feel like, oh, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Because that's because you know, Julie and she's like, you
know what, Canadians are good for stepping the stones. I'm
sure that's how that came up in your head. You're like,
I guess people know that about it. Like, no, no,
you're the guy that followed the guy.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
You grew up in Canada but then Ghana. Yeah, so
you how much time did you spend there?

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Well, I just got to say I want to congratulate
you on doing some vestige of homework because, by God,
like you've got enough stuff going on in your day,
you don't have to look up.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I've got pages.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Okay, hey, we don't need that, my friend. First off,
we've got pages. Your viewer slash listeners don't need anything.
Any information on me is not going to further them.
They're like, oh, I spent some time in Africa, so
what you know? But yeah I did. Let's get it
out of the way. Yes you did. My parents are teachers.

(07:27):
We were in Africa. We grew up without film and
television and any of the modern stuff that the current
society has. When I can say from my own experience,
tremendous way to grow up. And then we moved back
to North America for like high school years, basically, and
we had to learn to swear and play organized sports
and that worked out just fine.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
You say, it's a fantastic way to grow up. Why
was it fantastic? How did it shape you?

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, I have no basis of comparison.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, that's all right, fair, right, So I.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Don't really know, but I look at I don't consider
social media to be healthy, and this was like the
precursor to some of that was just whatever we had
as youngsters growing up in the eighteen hundreds, and so
we basically ran around raiding coconut farms and chasing snakes
and inventing things mentally. I think one of the reasons

(08:21):
I am an actor is because your imagination was everything.
Like you just had to either if you were going
to have a good day, you also had to have
a good imagination. There was no other stimuli really, I
mean apart from the aesthetic beauty of the dark continent.
So we you know, we were always were making up games.

(08:45):
We're playing games and I guess still doing it today, right.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
My sister and I were just talking about riding big
wheels through the woods like fast downhill, playing dukes of hazard.
When I was a kid like that was what we
were doing and playing and embodying the roles. Obviously you're
talking about stuff like that. Were you also performing at

(09:12):
all in front of people? Was that a part of
the culture there in Ghana?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Or I would say not, No, I assume whoever. You know,
we had friends that we would just run around and
you know, like I say, do things, and I think,
you know, like everybody was kind of like, you know,
you're you're whatever, you're six, seven, eight years old, nine
years old, you're showing off, you're doing whatever the thing is.
So is it performing? I guess it is, you know,

(09:38):
but there's no organized Hey, we're doing a school play
kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Hell, I think we did.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
I think I think we did the King and I
but you know, like it's an outdoor theater. I remember
vividly the parents because you know, imagine being a parent
and not being able to provide any kind of pageantry,
you know, if you've got to if people are going
to take their kids whatever the latest, you know, like
Pixar releases, that's an event, right or this thing was
coming out and we had zero none of that, you know.

(10:09):
So if you think about the amount of time that
today's youth in many ways necessarily so spent time in
front of a screen. You know, it's it's kind of
stunning to think about an existence where nothing like that
was an option. And so what do you do with
your time? In Africa? It was too hot to have

(10:32):
school in the afternoon, so we had school from a
thirty to twelve thirty and then in the afternoon, what
were you going to do? So it was books, books, books, books,
and play play, play play and imagination, imagination, imagination. But
I do remember the adults deciding that, you know, they
needed to offer the kids something. And back in the
day there was stuff like the carober Neet Variety Show,

(10:52):
and so they sort of did a mimicked version of
something like that, where you know, like Sonny and Cher
would come up and sing and then there would be
a comment bit, and then there'd be a musical bit, right,
you know, and the kids we're outdoors and on front
of this like stage, watching these you know, amateur performers.
But I remember as a child sitting there, going, this

(11:13):
is incredible. You know, all the lights and its darken
thing and the palm trees and the stars. You're like this,
this is amazing. I have no idea if that had
any other kind of like effect on me. But under
those circumstances, it was kind of amazing to see performance
up in front of you.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, what about music? Are you singing? Are you making
up songs? Are you performing songs?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Are you My mother is a music teacher, so yeah,
all the time. And she went she went back to Africa.
When there's five children, they all we're all like university age.
And she went back for another three years and again
was heavily involved in the music and watching the influence
of a small town Canadian woman, you know, like take

(11:57):
the music that she knew and then like have a
mishmash of all the African culture music that she was
exposed to, and putting on those types of performances. Very
very cool. So the music was, you know, from as
long back as I can remember, always always in the house,
Like everybody in the family plays instruments, everybody sings, everybody,

(12:19):
everybody performs. When they moved back to North America, my
mother was ahead of choir and she was doing community
theater and the head of like the music acts and
stuff like that. So it was it was always around.
And I got my start. I don't know about you, Like,
did you I I got my start doing musicals.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yes, that's partly why I'm asking. Yeah, I mean where
it was. Did you believe that that's what you were
going to do? Musical, musical theater, singing?

Speaker 1 (12:44):
How how many musicals have you done?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Talk singing? There's nobody better, there's nobody better. You need,
you need general notes surrounded by rhythm with a hint
of comedy. I'm your man. Reg Harrison Rex Harris had
nothing on me, not nothing but a real, real singing.

(13:08):
I mean I did it when I was a kid.
I was in the choir, and then I was in
the special choir and had the solos and stuff. It's
not pretty, I mean for me, and then I just
I just started, you know, once I graduated from school
and became and really moving into college and really studying,
the music went away. It just yeah, I mean I

(13:30):
think I knew in my soul that was not going
to be my path.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Got unlike you, but you could you could always Like
that's the whole thing. It's like, it's funny that you
say that, like, and I know you're kind of like
semi tongue in cheek about it, but truly like my
experience with the musicals has been you want to have
somebody who can perform and you know, tell tell the story.
I think the audience is nowhere near caught up in

(13:58):
the snobbery of like how great is a voice here?
Let me give you a perfect example. Has Alan coming
done your podcast yet?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
No? But I but I have to say, I wasn't
like one of those like, oh, musicals are dumb, like
musical snobbery. It wasn't that like.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
The way you might not know this, but like Julie Bowen, right,
Julie Bonen was like, I went to see the musical.
You know, we shot a show we did together in
New York. I'd go see a music with her. Her
fingernails would dig into my into my thighs as people
began as they broke into song, She's like, I don't
understand why they break into song. It never works. I
hate it when I cringe when they break into I

(14:34):
feel so embarrassed for them when they break into song.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I wasn't there, but I just I just kind of
had stopped, you know, in my trips to New York
or whatever it was, it was all more straight theater.
But I saw Alan coming very early on in in Cabaret, and.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
This is what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
It was transformative.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He's spectacular, and he's spectacular. This is the whole thing.
So I've worked them, you know, and now and again
he I defy you to go, is he a good
or a bad singer? Alan's so honest and abrupt, and
you know, he's just so such a powerful persona. I
think he's spectacular, but I do know it's all performance,

(15:17):
Like he embodies whatever story he's telling in that song,
and it's got nothing to do with like quality of
voice or whatever the thing is. It gets somebody, you know,
acclaimed as a singer, and it's interesting to watch somebody
who can do that where you're just like if you're
a lead on Broadway and nobody's sniping at your singing

(15:40):
qualities because you're telling the story and he's you know,
Cabaret is a perfect example. Spectacular in Cabaret, like just untouchable,
you know. And I did that play twenty years prior
to that, and some some of the Broadway plays that
I've done, I know for a fact, and everybody who's
in the company can back me up. I'm the worst

(16:02):
singer on the stage, always like there's nobody poorer than me,
and you know, people, that's not self deprecating, that's not modest,
that's just plain facts. Son. And if you were to
liign people up and go who's the worst, Yeah, Tom,
Tom's the worst. He's clearly the worst, you know. And
yet like you get cast because I can tell, hopefully,

(16:27):
I'm telling a story. And that's why, you know, to
say Alan Cummings, like he's telling a story, You're wrapped,
you're paying attention. He's adding, like you said, when you're
talking about yourself, you want a bit of humor, whether
you didn't think there was going to be humor, he
can do that. We can do that, And suddenly people
are like they're accepting. They're not like, let me see
your card carrying membership of your high seat. Don't have it,

(16:49):
you know, like that's not it's not part of it.
And that was my experience for a decade. The only
other thing about that is when you're making your living
in musical theater, there's constant trauma at the fact that
you suck. So here's the story I don't think I've
ever told, not even my own podcast, by the way,
Mates Mike and Tommy. It' snaxt. So I was auditioning

(17:12):
for the out of town thing of this thing was
going to Broadway. Philip Rose, a kind of acclaimed New
York City director, and I had to do an acting
scene with the Venerable John Cullum where I asked for
his daughter's hand in marriage. It was a five page scene,
as they write in theater, and I was like, if
I can get to that, we're going to be okay.
But you got to sing right, And so I practiced

(17:34):
my song. And by this time, I was like, you know,
a good ten years or so into the career musical theater,
and I was like, I knew that. Don't come in
and sing old Man River. So I found this thing
by this guy, Bernard Cribbins, who wrote a song called
the Bird on the second Floor, and it's just basically,
like you say spoken, it's not spoken. He sings a

(17:54):
jolly old moon's going to shant and which way you
look at it, I'm all right, wait sing full of
the bird second floor. I'm telling all the birds that
are used to date, it's been a giggle, please don't wait.
Since I saw the Bird on the Zagon floor something
like that, and then it was there's this little pattern
in between, like, oh, second full, why don't they get
lifted here? Still? No matter what is it Thursday steaking

(18:16):
Kidney Pie whoa lovely because something she has got right?
You know, people are coming in singing old Man River
and they're like, then this guy walks in like and
they're just like, what the fuck is happening? You know
what's this guy doing? You know, like to distract them
from the fact that I'm not I'm no good singing wise,
you know. So I had that ready to go in
my back pocket, and then I was like nerves, like

(18:37):
hopefully I can sing good enough. And the guy who
went in in front of me. You know how this
is you can hear the person in the room, yeah,
ahead of you, Like I have a great thing where
Jason Bateman and I were reading for the lead role
in an ABC pilot and there was a third guy
and Bateman wasn't like doing everything at the time. It
was pre arrested development, but I knew he was a

(18:59):
super talented there, very nice guy, and so I got
into the studio that afternoon and they had been like
a love fest. I was like, oh, people are like, yeah,
they love you, they love you, they love you, and
you're gonna you're gonna be great. This is your role,
blah blah, you're the front runner, all this stuff which
you never want to hear. Then I go in and
I do the exact same read, and I know the
fact that the read was good more a tyranny. This

(19:19):
is all name dropping. Kevin Bagan told me never drop
a name, but this is your podcast, and I'll never
forget her looking at me like as the silence descended
and Tumbleweeds blew through and you could hear a distant
wolf thing in the background, and nobody said anything, just
kind of stared at me, and I was like hmm,
and I was like, so I walk out. I went
in first, I'm like, holy crap. And then they make

(19:40):
you wait around, right, and so so you're just like
so you can like then be told to in person
you were awful.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
So you can go now.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yes, I did all the same stuff. I watched Silence.
Bateman goes in and Silence and I'm like that sucks,
you know. He walks out. He's like Beta, now I
won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me
the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.
The laughter is deafening, Like they just he's the funniest

(20:11):
guy ever, you know what I mean. Then they poke
the heads out and they look at Jason and like
you guys can go.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
I'm like, okay, thank you. I don't know why I started.
Oh yeah. So then so I'm auditioning for this play
that's going the Broadway. And the guy goes in in
front of me, and guess what he sayings Brian old
Man River and he starts off like and I can
hear everything like and he builds to this giant crescendo,
and the walls of the place are shaken, you know,

(20:39):
speak its rolling, you know. And he comes out and
there's like applause, like you're twenty people in the room
and you can hear him clapping, and then it's like
door opens, tom So, so I go on, exactly, this
is what the just says to me. You know, they're

(21:01):
Jason Bateman and me. Even he gets up on the table.
He's like one hundred and sixty years old, and he
walks over and his like tweed coat, you know, his
big Big Glasses comes over and he kind of he
does this, he crosses his arms, he kind of like
purses his lips and kind of like rubs his chin,
and he's like, did you bring anything real to sing?

(21:27):
So that I go? So that didn't work, so I say,
why don't you give me what I will have to
sing in the play, which kind of feels a little
bit like the death mell. But then he's like, all right,
well let's read first. I'm like, aha, we do the read.
It's like it's pratt Fall City because he's got to
be and you know, the red is like goes swimmingly well,

(21:50):
and I can feel the whole room change, Like this
guy doesn't have to be a great singer. You know,
you end up getting the up, getting the part, but
it is the Alan Coming of it all. It's just like, look,
you know, like let's have a couple of really fancy,
great singers in your show and then we can have me.
You know, It's like we do we have a slot for?

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, you know this guy. It's crazy because I don't
think I mean just that you brought up Alan Coming,
because I don't think you could have pulled any other name,
Like I loved the performance so much, I would like
like not changed my life. But like, but if you
had followed that up like, oh did you see Alan coming? Oh? Yeah,

(22:32):
he was amazing. If you had followed up that and
said is he a good singer? I couldn't have answered
the question like truly, so your point is well taken,
Like I would probably have said something like I assume, yeah,
yeah he must have been because he was so good. Well,

(22:53):
you may have changed my life today because I keep
getting approached or I have been approached to do some musicals.
I've been nervous.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
You got to do it. I feel like as a
guy who's done like, you know, a couple thousand musicals
and sucks, you know, like there's always that complete terror.
But you know as well as I do, like good
things can come from that, you know, like good things
can come from like all right, I'm just going to
work as hard as I can to not make a
complete and utter fool of myself in front of all

(23:23):
these people. And then like you, you know, you're literally
fighting for survival, you know, and everywhere you are around you,
at least my experience, everybody is like much better than
you in at least one facet of being able to
tell the tale. And so it's just like it sharpens
your game a little bit. You become like better at survival,
you become like the things that you're good at, you

(23:44):
have to really home them. You can't take a day off,
you know, you have to work as hard as you can.
And it makes you better, you know, just you know,
have a decade of terror for me, Like oh bo
I hear we go. I remember, like I did this
play year in town and I remember before going on
to Broadway for the first time, I'm about to make
my entrance and I have to sing shortly thereafter. I
remember like the lights going on and like count happening.

(24:06):
I remember in my head going, who the hell do
you think you are? Like that was ringing in my head.
What are you think you're doing? You know what I mean?
And it's like always a constant fight against like oh boy,
you know, like just trying to like all right, let's
see if I can get away. Let's see if I can
get away with this one. But it's you're not going
to go on and go like oh, I'm really surprised

(24:28):
by that. There's nothing that they can throw at you.
I think in front of a camera that you're going
to say, oh that terrified me today. You know, like
you you're just but being in front of like the
audience and doing the musical. You know, there's there's there's
built in terror there and that's not a bad in

(24:48):
terms of like living your life and experiences and stuff like.
I you know, I assume you're gonna win a Tony
for the next thing, and I'm going to be so
furious when you're like, you know, I always want to
know what gonna mention?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
No talk of this, No, I'll bring it. I will
bring it up, for sure, I'll bring it up.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, you will get you'll get thanked, Okay, you'll get thankes.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
So back to Canada. You're doing theater, you're doing musical, theater,
You're doing a little bit of everything. You like. Pamela Anderson,
Uh do some work for Le Bat Blue.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
I feel like that's the first time we've been using
the same sentence, thank you for that. Uh pretty sure?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Really that's good.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Oh no, wait, there is another one that Tom Kavanaugh.
He's no Pamela Anderson, that's the other sentence.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Oh right, that was my other joke. Production in Canada
similar to the United States. Oh me, you do some
others up. Jake and the Kid is an early television
show that you do.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Throwing me the fact that you put in this much.
I feel like I got to up my game and
provide you with some socking kind of entertainment. Thank God
for the enviet But yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think,
like you, I don't like talking about myself. It's and
that's all we are doing on this stupid thing. But

(26:23):
I appreciate you and respect you, so I'm gonna like,
I'm gonna do my best. It is the same because
of the cultural difference between the two places. It provides
you with something that I think is I don't know
if the word is necessary, but extremely helpful to a
young actor in that the grips are they're moving the

(26:43):
c stands, you know, the gaffers, you know, fixing the
keno like that. It's all the same the sand bags
were putting the sand bags down. It's all the same set.
There's a confluence of blunstone boots, there's you know, there's
a lot of wearing smoking, and as long as you
do your job well, you get to keep coming back.

(27:05):
I've often felt that like the Crew in many ways
are people that figured out that their favorite subject often
in school was recess and they figured out how to
have recess full time, where it's like, look, I can
do anything. I can wear this, and I can say this,
and I can I can do this, and I can
have these tattoos and I can wear the shirt and
everything is fine because I'm good at my job, right

(27:28):
And you know, that's that's kind of how it is.
It's like, if you love what you do, then it's
not it's not kind of work. It's all the same feel,
it's all the same kind of thing. And then cut
and that's a wrap and you go out there and
nobody knows anything about what show you did and what

(27:48):
you're doing. And this is not my line. This is
a Canadian. Another Canadian actor said that there's a star
making ladder in Canada, but it lies flat on the ground.
And so so, you know, in a strange way because
of our our cultural differences, you know, like in America,
you're you're going to celebrate this kind of different from

(28:08):
the packability and you're going to promote it. And in
Canada there's more of a socialism aspect to the idea
that we're all in this together. Let's not be showing
off and doing all these things. If you look at
like the difference between here's the sports and OGE. If
you look at the NBA players and you know their

(28:29):
personas and their platforms, and then you look at the
NHL people you know, and it doesn't have to be
that way, but it's kind of almost almost famous. Be
like if you're from Timmins or Kirkland Lake, you know,
you're like, you don't need to make a big show
of yourself. And so it's for a young actor that
wants to be famous, it's not the route that you

(28:52):
want to take. And that's not a bad thing because
the result of that is if what you want to
do is just be famous, you'll be weed it out
and what will remain are the people that love to
do it and want to do it and want to
do it for a living and don't care about acclaim
and profile. They're there going to work, We're there. I'm
there going to work on Jaco and the Kid, which

(29:14):
a show I adored, you know, set in the Saskatchewan
Prairies with the stunning, awesome beauty wall to wall, you know,
fields and Big the Giant, Big Sky of the Canadian Prairies,
a show that I absolutely adored going to work on,
and I don't know that anybody saw it, you know,

(29:36):
And I know that it ran for two years, you
know what I mean, And that didn't matter, Like, it
didn't it didn't even factor into the equation. So by
the time I started getting and then you know, a
decade of musical theater, you know, Broadway has its own groups,
for sure, but in terms of like the giant scheme
of like what actors get known, it's relatively small. And
so by the time you gain any kind of profile,

(29:58):
you don't really care, you know, you don't like you're like, yeah, okay,
that's you know, like people are now saying, hey, be
on Conan, but you're past the part of being seduced.
And I think that's in a strange way helpful, because
what you want to focus on is telling the story
as best as you can tell the story.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
That's right, that's right, and also without those external factors,
which almost necessarily comes in in terms of getting publicity
and all of those things in the United States, just
having the ability to do your work without those external distractions,

(30:37):
especially as a young actor who can actually then learn
what it is to be acting with the grip who's
smoking and moving that like doing his job totally fine.
But all of those things as a young actor getting
on set, those are obstacles that you have to that
you have to overcome, and so not having those external
things to me seems like that seems really cool.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's huge. I think it's I think it's huge. I
think of now with social media. You know, I do
this television show. It's a superhero show that I direct
and act in, and you know it's the superhero shows
are generally populated by young, attractive actors, you know, and
then you've got like, you know, a couple of dudes
like myself and Jesse Martin another like you know from Rent,

(31:20):
another huge Broadway guy. But he I look at young
actors who are getting famous at the age of twenty,
and I think it's great for bank accounts and all
that kind of stuff. But like you say, like the
mistakes I'm making and the overacting I'm doing on Jake
and the kid like I'm getting, you know, like every
day you're getting a little bit better. You're always trying

(31:42):
to get better. And if you know, just this male
stream of attention is focused on you when you're twenty
four or twenty five, twenty six, and you know, like
like any other profession, you hopefully keep improving. To this day,
I still feel like, got it, got it, try and
get good. You're always trying to trying to get there,
right we You know, I grew up in a in

(32:03):
a way like you know, if I had had a
massive amount of attention on you know, I think the
the early days and the stuff that I did on film,
they'd be like, well, we should never hire this person
again because he's terrible.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
You know.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Well I don't know about that, because you you come
out of the gate pretty. You know.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
I've seen some stuff on CBC, you know, the Canadian
Broadcasting Corporation where you know, I've got like, you know,
long hair, and I look awful and and I'm awful.
I'm awful on camera, awful, you know, and you're just like,
holy cow, Like how did they not like just like
cut hangs like fire him that person, get that person

(32:51):
that would just stay stay stay, You're like you and
so but then you like you know, like you you see,
I had a friend who was an editor and I
got to sit in the in the edit, and you know,
I had a director who you know, invited me into
the into the edit because she was like, she was like,
you know, you have directing ability, you kind of know
what the camera's doing. This will help you learn. And

(33:12):
it was, you know, massively instrumental. Also, you get to
you get to gauge your performance, you know, and you're
just like, oh my god, that's that's terrible, you know,
and then you start, you know, you start improving, you
start figuring out what you know, you need to have
the thought and be in the moment and actually listen,
you know, and all those things sound so easy, but

(33:33):
as you know, like if you can do those things,
then actually you probably will turn in it a good performance.
They're much much more elusive and slippery and hard to do,
harder to do than they sound.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Right. I want to talk to you about acting in
theater and on the stage versus film and television. Do
you consider it to be different versions of the same
thing or is it different for you?

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Brian, Such a good question, because I think I think
you sort of want to say it isn't because you're
telling a story and yet there's a difference to telling
the story all at once in the immediacy of the
audience and electricity in the air and the feedback that
you get that as you know, like you know, like
if you and I acting on camera, like we're going
to know when we're in the zone, and we're going

(34:22):
to know when we're we're not in the zone. It's
going to be up to you and I to feel that,
you know, and theaters are same, but there's also there's
a palpable energy that you know, some kind of ephemeral
code that comes from a thousand people in the stands.
Very early on, like you know, tried to figure it
was trying to figure out what the people who I

(34:43):
thought were amazing we're doing, you know, And I tried
to watch you know, every like if you John Malkovich
burn this on stage I think eighty seven on Broadway,
Like you watch Malcovich the play is great, but he
comes in there like watch this, everybody, sit the fuck down,
watch this entrance, you know what I mean. And and

(35:06):
then Brando in Streetcar from the first thing like just
there's these are just there's there's one hundred and fifty
things streep, you know, like I remember her and Kevin
Klein sophie' choyce going like why is she? What the hell?
And I remember like dissecting those things. This is way back, obviously,
but I was so young and they were so good,

(35:27):
you know, and they all seem to be so in
the moment, you know, and so either on stage or
on camera, and I was like, well, there's something that
Brando's doing on stage, or something Brando's doing, you know,
on camera that feels like stage to me. And I
got to try and figure out. And so I found
this quote by brand though about the differences between the two,

(35:48):
and I write it on all my scripts always have.
What he said was, you know, in theater you have
to show the audience what you're thinking. On film, you
just have to think it. The caveat being that you
actually have to think it. You can't just act it.
Like you know, you've been on on camera and on
stage with people who are no other line is coming,
and they're prepared and they just say the line. That

(36:10):
doesn't mean they're having the thought behind the line. And
that's the difference between I think a good performance many
times and a poor one where it's like you are
actively something is going on behind these lines that are
coming out of out of your head and so like,
you know, Brando also said the same thing with theatre,
where he's like, you know, and this is sort of

(36:31):
thing if anyone's seen anything that I do is a
very poor imitation of what he said, but I really
firmly believe it. And Pacino the same has said the
same sort of thing, where it's like, the character is
the cage. You build the cage and you can just
raw the hell out of it, you know what I mean.
It's like, how does Pacino go again away? It's like

(36:51):
what how does he get away with the yelling that? Like,
what what's he doing? But he's built this thing where
the guy does that and it doesn't seem you know,
I'm gonna take a flag a price. You're just like, wait,
you mean you're gonna take a flat for yeah, you know,
but it's this giant thing and you're like, Okay, he's
built this character and now he can rattle the cage.
So I don't have anything new or better to offer

(37:14):
as an answer to your question than that, but that
those are pretty good starting points.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I find it fascinating. But I you know,
when I made the switch. For me, it was there
was a harder edge. I wasn't sort of bleeding back
and forth for the most part, And so I always
sort of refer to it as me changing careers in
a way, because I felt like there was just such

(37:39):
a different mindset and focus in some ways. Even though
the central skill, if you will, is the same, the
training behind that is still the same. It's just executed
in such a different way.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
But the community of the the like the community of
it all, like I'm sharing the dressing room. We're you know,
like my part might be quite big, but there's four
of us jammed in here and all sharing the same thing,
and we're all working together, you know, in the and
it's completely equal, and we're all taking the same five
minute break, and nobody's getting extra special treatment, at least

(38:16):
in the productions that I've been involved in, you know.
And so yeah, that thing is like, hey, it's like DELFI,
It's like where it all started. We're all like this community,
we're all doing it together, whereas film, you know, is
you know, on television, very very different animal.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
What was the decision behind moving to Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Well, here's the thing. I never moved to Los Angeles.
I'm in. I stayed in New York and have lived
in New York. I have children, they were all born
in the city. And it's funny. You'd shoot out in
LA all the time and people be like, wait, you
don't live here. It's like, now, I live in New York,
and I remember you'd always get like, how'd you get it?
How'd you manage to do that? I always get that.

(38:55):
It's like, well, I came for Broadway, like, and I'm
not like an East Coast West Coast basher. New York
City is much more. It's me, you know. I like
to walk. It's boots on the ground. It's like there's
the gym, you know, there's the there's the deli, there's
the you know. It was just that kind of thing.
And what got me there was that guy Philip Rose,

(39:15):
the director was like, did you bring anything real to sing?

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
And he ended up you know, blessed bless his cotton socks.
He cast me in the thing, and next thing you know,
I'm in living in Hell's kitchen, walking back and forth
to fifty second Street to the Broadway Theater, you know,
every every matinee and every night. So I was like,
this is I feel like I'm supposed to be here
and you know, so, yeah, I've been in the city
for like twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I guess, wow, the early two thousands. It's at least

(40:00):
worth mentioning. You do get cast as in a number
of shows, big shows at the time, Scrubs, Providence, and
then ultimately become the what are they called titular titular?
I don't that's such a weird word. That's the word
that just popped into my head. You become the titular titular.

(40:22):
I'm not saying it right.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I think likely to take it good luck.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
I don't know what character ed in ad with the
aforementioned Julie Bowen. Your experience, well, being the captain of
the ship, I mean not directing or writing, but being
the being number one on the call sheet. How was
that different for you or was that just an extension
of the other work. Did you feel added pressure?

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Oh? No, I I no, I did not feel added pressure.
I felt like every now and again something comes up
and it's just like we're all supposed to be here,
you know. I worked with name Drop, I worked with
Mike Farrell from Mash and I remember him. You know,
he would just regale me with like stories and it's
just like, yeah, that was the moment, the moment in time,

(41:12):
and you know those he said to me, like you
know those gut we would get together on Friday night
to see where we were going for dinner on Saturday
night on her day off nine years in you know
what I mean, right, And he said and I remember
him saying, went like verbatim again verbai. He was like,
can you imagine that? And I could because Ed was
like that for us, Like it was just you know,

(41:33):
that show had initially been you know, it was positioned
for CBS, and then they didn't pick it up. It
didn't outright Shelvet and Roburnette, who ran the Late Show
with David Letterman, who also produced at the time, Everiela's Raymond,
which was a giant show for them, and he had leverage,
I guess, and he asked for it back because he

(41:54):
felt something about the show, which we all did, like
I'd gotten a couple of in strange ways. I also
auditioned for a couple of other shows and had to
turn them down. In the year, literally three hundred and
sixty five days we waited to see if ed would
go anywhere else, you know, and it just was a
sense that something about this thing was bigger than us
at the time, and so I kind of held out

(42:15):
for it, which on paper it was an insane thing,
because once the show doesn't go on a network, it's it.
It's over.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yes it is.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
And then Rob took it to NBC and said, you know,
like and they said, well, okay, let's reshoot the pilot.
And then they picked it up and then you know,
it got like twenty two million or something, and it's
like and it's like debut, and it was thrilling, to
be sure, but it didn't feel like can you believe it?

(42:43):
Like it just sort of felt like, yeah, we should
just stay with this horse.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
I remember Burnett saying the same thing, and Rob is
I don't know if you've worked with Rob or no
Rob at all, but Robert is one of the most
intelligent and entertaining humans, not in the not in the
world that we live in, but just like in the
world itself, Like just as good as they and as
smart as they get, and smart and humble in power
don't often collide. Well, And you know, when I got

(43:10):
offered a lead in another show that did go and
I was shooting a movie in Utah and we were
waiting to see NBC hadn't even picked up the thing.
We were just in this limbo and he was basically like,
you know, like you should take this other job. I
was like, I don't. I'm not built that way. I
sort of feel like you need to have that. We
need to get a full at bat. You, Robernette, need

(43:31):
to get a full at bat and you have two strikes. Basically,
we always do this. We like we when the show
got picked up and he would try and explain what
he wanted the character to do. He would use sports analogy,
and what was great about Rob is he can come
up with fifty in a minute, and I to entertain myself.
He would start explaining to me like, you know, like
it's it's like you're going on the blue line and
then like you feel like, oh wait, I feel somebody's circle.

(43:52):
You gotta circle back. And I wouldn't say it. I
just kind of look at him, and then he'd be like,
you know what, it's like, it's like your goalie is pulled,
but you need and he would just coming up with
like a whole bunch of different things, and I would
just like and then after about three minutes with me
just like wait, he'd be like, you're doing it again,
aren't you? And oh my god, check this out. This
is a picture somebody's And I didn't even plan this, Brian,
I swear to god, I didn't plan this. I've never

(44:13):
seen this picture anywhere, but this is my office and
like somebody snapped this on Ed while he was trying
to explain what the character should do to me? Can
you see that? Yeah, that's me and that's Rob and
I'm he's just going through sports analogy after sports analogy

(44:33):
and I'll keep you my mouth shut because he's so
damn entertaining, right, But he said something like he's like,
you know, everybody can like pick the thoroughbred in the
gate that they think, but nobody knows till the horses run,
you know what I mean. And you know, like in
a strange way with Ed, like it was just they
just felt like it something here should happen. And then
we got in like you say, captain, it's like, you know,

(44:55):
I'm willing to fight for my co workers and co
actors and do that thing, and you know, I definitely
coming from an athletic background and being a captain on
sports teams, I know how to do that. That being said,
it very much felt like theater in the best way
in that there there there was an equality across the

(45:17):
board for all the actors. And many shows aren't like that,
but the good many of the good ones are, and
so in terms of responsibility, just sort of felt like
everyone had it to one another to you know, to
keep the promise of this this thing alive. Those were
joyous days. And not only that, but the crew was

(45:38):
family and friends, just as the actors were amongst themselves,
and it was a whole kind of like sometimes the
show has its moment in time and you're fortunate enough
to be part of that thing, and this was this
was one of those that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I love to hear that, you know. That was shortly
before I moved to Los Angeles, and I was a
big fan of the show and I just loved Heart
And people talk about this about the Office, so it's
not me saying it though I'm saying it right now.
It was a show where you could really feel that
the people who were working on it cared about each other,

(46:11):
so it's nice to I mean I could feel that
watching It's not surprising, but it's still nice to hear
you talk about And.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
I think people don't know that about I mean, I
think people know about the success of the Office and
it's a beloved show, but that it also didn't have like, hey,
let's do this.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I remember talking to John. I think John Krazinski's first
on an episode I directed, of Ed. I think that
was his first professional on camera movement.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Really.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, I'd met him at a at the After Offices
in New York. We walked up the street together just
he was just a he just moved from Boston, and
you know, you know how some people like this guy's
got it, you know what I mean. He just sort
of felt like I felt like I should know him,
and he felt I guess I should know me. And
so then I gave him like on the show I
was directing, I got the cast, and I don't think

(46:57):
he had a network credit at that point. And I
still feel bad to this day that like it would
happen relatively soon, and I was like, do you want
to play the part of like the subpoena server? And
so he did that and it was just me and
him in the scene, and he was the best actor
in the scene. And you know, this bat to this
day felt bad that it wasn't a bigger role. But

(47:20):
I didn't direct all of them. That was one that
was like, hey, you can do this if you want,
and he did. But what's interesting is about knowing if
somebody's a good actor just to go just to take
the thing off the tracks for a second. Talking about John,
like when you direct, you're in the edit a lot,
and I had this wide shot that I use, and
you know, he has to come in midway through the scene.
He kind of showed that there's some kind of argument

(47:40):
that I turned turned around, boom, are you at Stevens guys,
you've been served? And then off he goes, right, But
in the two minutes that lead up to that, he's
completely busy. You know, he's kind of looking around to
see he kind of orders a drink from the bar,
kind of looking around, like backing up, scoping it out,
kind of Oh, just before I think it's that guy,
you know, and times has walk all the way down

(48:02):
right to when I'm about to turn in, there he is,
you know, and that sounds easy. It's not easy. You know,
it's not easy. It's not easy at all. And crisis
here is like bang bang bang and watch them an
edit and I'm just like, you know, when you have
a good feeling with good people and it happens, it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
You do musical theater obviously a lot of comedy and
drama Canada, Ghana, the United States. But I can't find
anywhere where you had played a superhero or super villain
or Warren Tights other than Shakespeare. What was that like
for you stepping into that world? A world obviously with

(48:37):
a lot of lore, a lot of history, people care
and believe passionately and it what was it like for
you to take such a departure for yourself and to
jump into that world.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I think the interesting thing about questions and ideas like
that just I sort of feel like you're always kind
of trying to I' mean Julie Bowen, so she just
never thinks she's going to get hired again. The big
question that sometimes doesn't get addressed is the question of
in capital letters, will they have you. I'm sure that
I would love to have been a superhero an Avenger

(49:08):
in my twenties, you know, and people don't want you,
or the opportunity doesn't come up, And so that's always
a giant part of it, as like who will have you?
And you need sometimes to be aided and embedded by
people like Berlanti, where you know you've gone through some
of the fires together and had poor results, so he
and I forging fires of cancelation and stuff, and like

(49:29):
the sort of damocles hanging over our head all the time,
and how you react to that, like, look, I'm happy
to be here. I like this show, I like being
with you. I like saying these words. After a while,
it becomes almost like a repertory group with somebody like that,
where they're like, I can rely on this guy, you know.
So I don't think I'm anybody's choice to be the
joker to the Batman the way I am in this

(49:49):
flashow where I'm the reverse flash to the flash apart
from Greg Burlanty, I don't think they'd have me. Not
only that because they didn't want to tell me. They
don't want to tell anyone actually who the villain was
because they were afraid of it leaking. They were like, hey,
do you just want you want to play this scientist?
And I'm like no, and then like and then and
then the second phone call was like, come on, play

(50:11):
the scientist, and I was like, that's your approach, come on,
come on. The second time, you're like come on, and
I was like, no, no, I don' want to play
a scientist. Like I'm like no, you know. Then they're
like they literally fly me out to Los Angeles, you know,
like I'll never forget. I'm in the halls of NBC
and Burbank. It's on like a Saturday, I think, and
there's nobody around Brian, nobody, and yet you know, the

(50:34):
executive producer like still goes and like closes the door
so that nobody will overhear what he has to say.
I'm like, what is happening, wh I gonna get mugged?
And he says, the role we really want you for
is Eobarthon. I'm like, I don't know who that is,
which I don't say because I don't want to see
him like a complete idiot because these people comment. But

(50:56):
people live for this stuff, so I say, keep talking, right,
and he says he's the reverse Flash and I'm like
and then he goes he's the villain, and I'm like
you could have saved yourself two thousand dollars by just
saying that over the phone. I'm like, I'm in, I'm in,

(51:19):
of course I'm in, like playing the villain wearing wear
in a supersuit, right, And to address your question of
like did you ever think that happens? Like a no B.
Thank god that it is, you know, twenty twenty three,
and the era is like Ben Affleck can go on
the donut diet and still jump into the Batman suit
and he can be fine, you know what I mean.
It's not the Adam West of yr when they put

(51:41):
this spandex on and I'm so sorry, you know what
I mean. Like then nowadays, you know the suit like
I had, Like the suit that I wear was like
ten ten thousand, yeah dollars, and like I've had like
five five fittings. I've also played the flash. I have
to wear his red suit. I wear my yellow suit.
And it's like artisans and artist crafting these suits, and

(52:02):
like I often felt like, you know, like the backstage
genius of the office catching the person, like John Clee
said it famously. When I was a young person, I
used to think that the funniest thing was you know,
I'm sure you know this score. But he was like saying,
the funniest thing ever was a normal person completely losing
their mind, like just having the biggest breakdown and just

(52:23):
kind of like screaming and going off the rails. He said,
As I go, oh do, I realized the funniest thing
was the man watching Batman. Yeah, you know, which is
basically that's the that's the genius of the office, right.
And so I've often felt like for these fittings, if
they knew what they were doing, they would actually have
somebody as this person's getting fit for a super suit film.
The people like just like staring at you, and they

(52:46):
reach out and they kind of like tug a cowl
right in your face and they're like like okay, you
know what I mean. PROD push bang, PROD pull.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
But like and then you ultimately end up being the
most grateful beneficiary of their work because you put on
the suit fits you like love, you look good. It's
just like thank heavens, Thank heavens for them.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, and then it's not spandex. Yeah, I just want
to hear from you. For me, it's a dream role
because you are constantly playing different characters, different versions of yourself.
That's a dream for me. How has that been? Has
that been challenging or just fun to dive in and

(53:32):
find different versions of yourself to play these various characters
that reverse flash in habits.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Well, not to bore your listeners, I assume by now
if they're still on there on for the rest of
this you know, but I mean, you know so because
of BERLANDI and the shows that we don't or are
being canceled. You know, we went into season one just
we're just going to tell Batman versus Joker. It's going
to become me, and you don't know that I am.

(53:58):
You think I'm like his mentor, and then I end
up being the reverse Flash. And so it's basically Flash
versus Reverse Flash for twenty two episodes and in the
big finale in the twenty third episode, it's me versus
him giant fight and he wins because guess what it's
called the Flash. You know. The network's like Warner Brothers
is like, we want more of these, many more of these,
and so for me, it's like, well, you can't tell

(54:19):
that story again. You already did Flash versus Flash. So
I was like, thank you you know, see, yeah, I
appreciate it. And then Greg was like, well, what would
it basically take for you to come back? And then
that's where the idea was hatched to, like what if
you're the same character but from Because it's a multiverse,
there's many earths, and there's like, you know, we could
while we're waiting for the yellow suited guy to come

(54:41):
in and wreak havoc to Central City, I could invent
another character that has the same name, but it looks
the same, but it's different. And that's where that came
out of. And so every year it was like, I
think I want to play an Indiana Jones type character.
Or I remember season I think it was season four
where I said to the show runner helping, I'm like,
what if Sherlock Holmes is French and is trying to

(55:06):
track down me the reverse flash? That would be a
good storyline. And he was like, I don't know if
we can get away with the French thing. I'm like, no,
we can do it. It's going to be great. Trust me,
he's French, He's show look, show look, look, you know,
and like by this time we still hadn't gotten canceled,
but then they're like, yeah, okay, fine.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
It's over an actor, Like if you know, if you're
lucky enough to be in a long running show like
that's that's kind of everything right there. You're going to
play the same character and you're going to be grateful
for it. Like to have something like this where you know,
like you get to play the villain who's the same
and then invent a new character year after year on

(55:45):
a show that ran nine years, it's kind of like
it's insane, so that rarely, rarely really happened. So I
couldn't be more grateful.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
You stepped out a couple of years ago, and now
this is the ninth year. As you mentioned, it's its
final season. Are there feeling are you going through the
feelings even though you're not there every day?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
No? Okay, I mean I think it's different, like I
think a show like The Office is different. I think
a half hour is different, you know, I think you
know how it is like an hour can be like,
you know, grueling, an hour that is like Law and
Order can be grueling. It's a whole, big, giant production.

(56:29):
And after I left after season six, it felt like
I've always kind of felt like you want to you
want to do you the best you can to not
leave on the far side of the mountain, and you
don't want to overstay. You're welcome, and I felt that
staying longer would be overstaying my welcome caveat being that
I knew that Batman's going to need the joker, So
I had an incredible position where I could leave the show,

(56:54):
but would I knew that I would be called back
because I that's the main villain, you know, So it
couldn't be more ideal because you didn't have to like
get teary eyed and bid farewell and be upset. And
sure enough, every year they would call me back to
do a little bit, So I got to see everybody
and hang out for a little bit, but also not
do twenty two in the dark of night, you know

(57:14):
what I mean. And so I feel like when we
said goodbye, you know, I think we said goodbye at
the right time. It was like four and a half years,
I think, but I remember it being really difficult. I
remember that being extremely emotional. It just felt like your
heart was breaking, even though you knew it was the
right thing, you know. And I think nine years on
a superhero show. Everybody's like, God, did you cut yet?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
God?

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Okay, bye?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
That's just one person's opinion. I think there'll be many
actors and actresses on that show who you know, have
a different thing. But only I think half of the
OG cast made it through, you know, a full nine anyway,
so they may have different they may have different impressions.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Well, you're certainly not looking for things to do. You're
doing a ton of directing, I understand, including directing the
premiere of Superman for the CW, another tights wearing hero.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Exactly right.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
You have a Broadway musical that's in the works, and
a new game show coming up for Game Show Network. Hey, Yahoo,
you've done your homework. Man. I mean you're You're everywhere,
and you know what, this country, America is better for it. Canadians,

(58:45):
they lost you long ago. I heard twenty five years
you've been here. You're famously from America.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Now you're a grand You're a grand human being.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Tom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time
coming on.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Uh, patient and tolerant. Let me just say I'm gonna
I am inject with like your patient and tolerant. This
is a guy who talked about himself for an hour,
and I feel that just mercy on your and your listeners.
But you're oh, no, generous. You're generous to have me aboard.
I appreciate it. It's just great to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Through this work. Don't let's not mistake it. I have
I have a ticket in the express elevator to Heaven.
Don't mistake me. Don't mistake me.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
But I wanted to get to heaven and he didn't
want to wait in line. I don't Hey, hey, Brian,
come on forward.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
No, I don't do I don't do lines. No, you
don't do lines, not anymore. Thank you, Tom. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Real pleasure, Tom.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Thank you for joining me and really for becoming my
new bestie. I'm going to see you soon, all right,
to be continued as they say in a flash, if
you will, thank you. Thank you very much, listeners. I'm
going to see you next week for another episode. I
can't wait. I hope you will join me. I will

(01:00:26):
talk to you then. Off the Beat is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Linglee,
our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes,

(01:00:47):
Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan
Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme
song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and Only
Creed Brad