October 31, 2025 • 22 mins
This week on Talkin’ Politics, S.E. chats with Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) about his take on a new generation of leaders (and issues) to carry the Democratic Party into the future. Then, S.E. weighs in on some recent chatter about whether Trump will actually try to break American democracy in order to allow himself to serve a third term in office. (Believe him!) Plus, listener mail!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Talking Politics, where I am your enlightened spirit guide,
helping you on your journey of discovery as we explore
America's fascinating and ever changing political landscape. Just kidding, let's
talk some trash. Seriously, this isn't the time for deep
thoughts and intellectualism. As much as I love them, Hayek
(00:27):
and John Locke can't help us now. Now is the
time for outrage. It is the time to get focused.
It's the time to save our democracy. In a bit,
i'll share my political hot take of the week, the
thing in a mess of news that really got my attention.
But first my interview. Saving our democracy is complicated, isn't it.
To make a meaningful change, you have to have some power,
(00:51):
And to have some power, you have to win elections.
Democrats lost the big election in twenty twenty four. We're
all living with the consequences of that loss. Whether it's
the shut down fight where the courts or Trump's tariffs.
There just isn't much Dems can do to stop Trump
or even hold them accountable. And even if you like
what Trump is doing, that is so dangerous. We need
(01:14):
two strong parties. We need checks and balances. We need
a president with some accountability because a president with absolute
power will be corrupted absolutely. And as Trump grifts off
the American people and cashes in on the presidency oversees
here at home, people are hurting. Nearly half of US
(01:34):
states are in an actual recession. US veterans have turned
to food donations during a government shutdown. Our soybean farmers
have no one to sell soybeans do because of Trump's tariffs,
and it's just gonna get worse. So here's where I
give my friends in the Democratic Party some tough love
and ask when are you going to get your shit together?
(01:57):
Help answer that very rude question. I'm happy to welcome
one of the more outspoken and effective communicators in the
Democratic Party, Congressman from California, Rocanna, to talk in politics. Welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I don't think I've ever been introduced that way, with
that kind of a provocative question.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So I'll try to live up.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Listen, these are serious times. I don't have to tell you.
And as you know, I talk a lot about how
bad Trump is and how the Republican Party is a disgrace.
And I do that as a conservative, I do it
as a former Republican but if we want Trump and
trump Ism to be defeated, if we want it vanquished
so that no one ever thinks it's a good idea
again to elect a criminal with no concern for the
(02:39):
constitution or the law. Someone's got to present an alternative view.
Someone has to sell voters on a better way. Democrats
did not meet that challenge last year. Are they ready
to meet it in the midterms, Congressman.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We need to offer a vision of economic cope at
a time of economic pessimism. That to me is the
central issue. Seventy percent of Americans don't believe in the
American dream. Donald Trump went around the country. He said,
you've lost your means of making a living. They shipped
your jobs offshore, the cover up, delete screwed you. And
I'm going to bring back good jobs. And I'm going
(03:17):
to cut prices. And what we need to now say is, Okay,
you've now had almost six years of this five six
years of this experiment, the tariffs alone. Where are the
new factories. They're not here. Manufacturing's actually down. How have
your prices? What's happened to your prices? They've actually gone up.
They're not going down. I mean your food is costing more.
(03:37):
Fruit's costing more, to coffee is costing more, and housing
is costing more because.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The input costs. Oh the way, it's costing more even
for manufacturing.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But we have a vision of how we're going to
build economic independence and wealth across this country. I represent
a district of almost eighteen trillion dollars a wealth, and
I'll tell you, with the technology revolution, here's a real
plan for what's going to it's going to take for
every community to have jobs and high income and low
costs in the twenty first century.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I think that would win the election.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think the idea that just opposing
Trump and then simultaneously telling voters the economy is great,
Actually your safe crime is down, illegal immigration isn't a
crisis that obviously didn't work. So you need a positive agenda.
Vote for this, not against that. Do you think that
(04:30):
Democrats as a party have that agenda in place and
can unite around it, whether they're progressives or moderates, to
be a strong party getting into the midterms.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's taking shape. I think for the midterms.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
It's saying, look, this idea of having blanket.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Tariffs have just raised prices.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This idea of giving tax breaks to the billionaires in
my district that already have eighteen trillion does a well,
not what the country needs of having healthcare costs go up.
But for a Virginia West Virginia couple who's making eighty
five thousand dollars to pay forty eight thousand dollars more
in healthcare costs because the Republicans don't want to fund healthcare,
(05:13):
that's not helping lower people's cost a living. And what
the Democrats will do on day one when you give
us back the House of Representatives, We're going to fight
to repeal the food terrifs to lower your grocery bills.
We're going to fight to expand healthcare so that your
premiums come down. We're going to fight to raise the
way so you have more money in your pockets. And
we're going to actually offer a real vision for how
(05:35):
young people and people are being displaced with these mass
layoffs can have good paying jobs. I call it economic patriotism.
We can go into it, but I think we have
to run on this fundamental view that people are pessimistic
about the American dream and their outcool and the Democratic
Party is going to turn around, and I don't think
we've articulated that enough. We kind of had a triumphalism
(05:55):
of Biden economics. And I'm not saying you didn't do
good things, but you know, FDR and four was saying
the country's.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Terrible and it's all Herbert Hoover's fault.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We should not have, you know, a triumphalism when so
many Americans are pessimistic.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I think that's an important point. And I think
you're an excellent voice for the party. I've interviewed you
a lot on TV, and I see your appearances a lot.
But do you think Democrats need some new messengers, especially
considering how old some in leadership are.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I do.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I mean, look, if I have a lot of respect
for Chuck Schumerray, we wouldn't have gotten the chipsacked Ira
bi part is an infrastructure don if it weren't him.
But like when you see him on television, does he
inspire you to think this is the guy who's going
to turn around the American dream for people? And no, No,
And you know, there was a very reasonable person who's
(06:43):
had a great career in public service. He said we
all need to know our cell by date and some
of the people have not gotten that message in.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
The Democratic Party. Doesn't mean they weren't great voices.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But you know, part of what allowed for Bernie's rise
and Trump's rise is the Democratic Party became a little
bit of a club. Like if you didn't know the
right people and if you weren't with the consultant class,
you weren't part of the conversation. And that's what allowed
for this outsider voice to come in and guess what
if the club had been the greatest generation in won
(07:12):
World War Two, maybe we would have forgiven it. But
the club presided over the decline of the American dream
and the hollowing out of industry. So it's time for
them gracefully to step aside. I think if you've been
an elective office for more than fifteen years, you probably
aren't the right voices to lead us forward.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I think it's really brave to say it's obvious, I think,
but also pretty brave to say, I'm wondering if you're
looking at someone like Saron Mundani who's totally untested. Right,
we'll see if he can pass the election test, but
then there's like the governing test. But obviously, oh, listen,
I've been covering politics a long time. I haven't seen
the kind of excitement around him since Obama in the
(07:53):
Democratic Party. And maybe it's not based on reality, but
it's there. Are you looking at someone like ron Mon
Donnie and thinking this is where we need to go
more like this?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, I'm campaigning for him on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We're doing a joint rally together in Queens and I
think what he has done and exciting people is absolutely
key to the Democratic Party.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Now we've got to be a big tent.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I've also capt paigd for Abigail Spanberger and Bennington Gap
and Mikey Cheryl m New Jersey, and I think that
the Democratic Party needs to have the excitement and energy
that Doron's bringing and his focused on affordability it particularly
in urban areas. But we also need to listen to
what Abigail Spanberger is saying about rural America and about
factory towns, and we need to listen to Markey about
(08:40):
what suburban America is telling us. And you know, people say, well,
how how can we do one or this or the other.
I said, this is a big country and if you
want to lead the country, you've got to be a
big tent, and I don't understand why Donald Trump was
like cutting deals with Robert Kennedy to win the election.
I'm not saying we destantly have to go that far,
but we can't. Slice is going to give us a majority?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, a big tent, but the Republicans have led
some very unseely people under the tent. Okay, maybe maybe
not too big a tent, but yeah, I understand what
you're saying. Who is the star of the party right now?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Well, I think the star of the twenty twenty five
elections is probably Mamnani just by the odds defying nature
of his win.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right now, I mean of the Democratic Party nationally, who's
the star?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I think that's to be seen. I mean, I really
think that we have a lot of great talent.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I mean we've got people in uh Andy, Basher and
west More and Shapiro, and I mean we've got you know,
I can go on Putaja and there's a lot of
great new voices. But I think that that they are
going to have to articulate their division. I think Kakim
is finding his footing and has really unified the caucus.
I think his he really can arise to the moment.
(09:58):
But I you know, people are afraid that we don't
have a singular leader, but we also didn't have a
singular leader after two thousand and four, and then we
got Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and then we didn't
have a singular leader after nineteen eighty eight and we
got Bill Clinton. So it's probably a good thing that
we don't have a singular leader because that means we're
actually going to have an open fight for the future
(10:19):
leadership of this party.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And we haven't had that fight. Can you believe it?
We haven't had that since like two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
It's just been handed to the people.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I think that would be the worst, worst mistake that
the Democrats can make.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That's a good way to put it this shutdown battle.
The losers in this shutdown battle are the American people.
Goes without saying, But do you think that Democrats can
come out of this with anything?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Depends how the plane lands right now. Obviously, the most
urgent thing is that sixteen million kids are going to
go hungry the day after Halloween. Yeah, because of the
lack of snap benefits you have in sure instrument is
literally spiking.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We're not talking about fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
We're talking about thirty forty thousand dollars more for middle
class families. And you've got people of federal jobs are
not being paid for taking loans. So if the Democrats
can get it back open and demand a vote on
the Affordable Care Act subsidies being increased, and make it
(11:24):
very clear that we are pushing and fighting for them,
and get some concession, then I think this would we
would have held our ground. But if it ends up
being that, you know, we just cave, then it's not
going to be a good look.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Before I let you go, we end with an exit
poll where I ask you three questions of varying degrees
of seriousness.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Okay, I'll try not to flow them.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No, you'll be fine. You're going to do fine. First questions,
what's your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
About politics? Probably the one with Jimmy Stewart.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Goes to Washington, to Washington.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That's a n Icon one.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, I mean Just on the Waterfront is a good
movie too. It's not directly about.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Polist though, it's about labor. It's such a good movie.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So those are probably two of them.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Love on the Waterfront. Okay, what's someone on the other
side of the isle. Who is someone on the other
side of the aisle that you admire Thomas Massey.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean not just because we worked on the Epstein files,
but he's a thinker, and he's unusually principled. You actually
know that he takes an independent position on issues.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, clearly. And lastly, how do we save our democracy.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
By offering a vision of the alternative that is compelling?
You know, there was a book written about lenin a biography,
and there's a reason that totalitarian leaders go after universities
and intellectuals first. And I never understood this I read
this biography. It's because those are people offering ideas and
the biggest threat, Actually, it turns out to authoritarian leadership
(12:55):
is not just resistance, it's the it's the offering of
an alternative that captures people's imagination.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Gandhi did that? Doacavel did that? You know?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We need to offer an alternative that people say, you
know what, Yeah, that's something we get excited about.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Actually, that's what Zoran did.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Whether you agree with him or not, he offered an
alternative that excited people, and you see how powerful that
can be.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, Rocanna, thank you so much. For coming on. I
really appreciate it, and I'm sure I'll see up on
CNN or somewhere else soon.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah anytime. There was a great conversation with Congressman Rocanna,
and when we come back my political hot take, don't
go anywhere. Welcome back to talking politics. Before I get
to my mini mono, I wanted to check in with
(13:50):
my producer Lauren. Do we have any mail?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
My goodness, we sure do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Oh tell me, Okay, I just is it happy or
is it nice or not nice? This one is a
good one.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You know, we've had a little mixed bag sometimes, but yep,
we're always happy to get mail. This one comes from
a listener named Paula. Okay, she wants to say thank
you for the honest, transparent podcast. All you have said
and told about Trump is truth and facts, not Fox crap.
Anyone with a heart and decency sees what is happening
(14:22):
in our America and shame on all the greedy others
to allow all this spiteful destruction. I'm glad I'm at
the older part of my life, but not telling what
my grandchildren will have to bear from this insane behavior.
Of our president and our government. Please keep doing what
you do each day, and thank you. That feels nice.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You know that actually means a lot because two reasons. One,
she's speaking to something that's very real, which is that
like when you hear this stuff get defended a lot,
whether it's Fox or a myriad other places, you start
to think you're great. Like what I'm seeing it, so
clearly this is so bad and dangerous, and yet lots
(15:07):
of people in positions of power are defending it. You
can think maybe it isn't that bad. No, it is.
It is, And so I'm happy to be sort of
the you know, I don't know clear ride person who's
gonna tell you like it is. The Second part of
this is you're not always gonna like what I say,
because because of this, you're not. And you know, I
(15:29):
go up and down. I've got fans who'll be like, oh,
I love when you tell the truth, unless I'm give
I turf love to democrats, right or whatever it is.
So it's a double edged sword. But I'm always gonna
I'm always gonna be honest. And letters like that are
really nice because I you know, I don't always get
(15:49):
nice feedback and I don't do it for that, but
it is really nice to hear. So that's great and
thanks for tuning in, Paula. We love that. It is
very and you can email us at off the Cup
Cup with two p's at gmail dot com and give
us your takes and listen. You can be critical too,
I'm not I'm not afraid of that.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, we don't only need the positive stuff, but no,
you know, taking your questions like se is here to
answer questions if you have any, so send those in
as well.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
One hundred percent ask me anything, Ask me anything. Okay,
onto the mini mono and it starts with two words,
Believe him. Last year, almost a year ago, on October
twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, the New York Times editorial
board ran an op ed and they used a full
(16:39):
page to print out in giant boldface all caps the
following missive. They wrote, Donald Trump says he will prosecute
his enemies, order mass deportations, use soldiers against citizens, abandon allies,
and play politics with disagns. Believe him now, as we know,
(17:04):
much of this has already come true because he always
tells us what he's going to do. We saw it
outlined in Project twenty twenty five, he talked about doing
all of this stuff at his rallies. He told the
media that he was going to do it. He wasn't
issuing empty threats. He wasn't throwing this stuff out there
(17:25):
as trial balloons to pull test their popularity. He was
saying he was going to do them, because he was
going to do them. Five days after this New York
Times editorial was published, for example, Trump sued CBS for
its interview of Kamala Harris. A month after he won
his election, he sued the Des Moines Register for a
(17:45):
poll he didn't like. He told voters, I will be
your retribution, and true to his word, he prosecuted his enemies.
He's ordered mass deportations, he has used soldiers against US citizens.
He's abandoned allies, he has played politics with disasters. And
yet there are still people who think he's bluffing when
(18:09):
he says he'd like to run for a third term.
Now he's been saying it for months now. He makes
it sound a little like he's joking, but he's not.
He's saying it because he wants to do it, and
he wants to see how many people agree with him
and how many people might help him along the way.
This week, several Republicans have come out to assure us
(18:31):
Trump isn't running for a third term. Speaker Mike Johnson
laughed it off as quote trolling and said he's talked
to Trump about the constitutional constrictions, as if that has
ever stopped Trump before. Now, listen to what former Ohio
governor and presidential candidate John Kasik had to say about
(18:53):
it on MSNBC on Friday.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
No, I mean, it's just nothing to take again. Taking
that seriously, it's no Listen. Have we had any states
trying to move to call a convention to change the amendment?
Have we had any Republican governors do that. They're not
even going to ask it, answer a question like that
because it's not going to happen. I mean, I hate
to burst a balloon here because it's great headline and
(19:15):
it's a good clickbait and all that other stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Oh the hubris. What country has Kaisak been living In
the past year? Trump has broken every norm, He's violated
the Constitution dozens of times, and he's had help. Unlike
his first term where he'd get to one of these
doors where he wanted to sort of abuse or overreach
(19:40):
his power, and no one would be there to help
him open it. In fact, someone was there to close
it in his face. Mike Pence, for example, He's got
friends now, allies, accomplices who want to open those doors
for him. They're doing it now. He's got Republicans in
the House and the Senate, both chambers telling him to
(20:00):
go for a third term. Randy Fine, congressman from Florida,
called for a repeal of the twenty second Amendment. Senator
Tommy Toberville of Alabama said whether Trump decides to quote
go around the Constitution would be up to him. No,
it isn't. It definitely isn't. Look this isn't a troll.
It isn't a joke. Just listen to Steve Bannon, the
(20:24):
architect of Trump's first campaign.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
He's going to get a third term, so Trump twenty eight.
Trump is going to be president of twenty eight. And
people just want to get accommodated with that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So what about the twenty second Amendment?
Speaker 6 (20:35):
There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, will lay
out what the plan is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Got it, they have a plan, They'll lay it out.
I know Steve Bannon. I don't think he's bluffing either.
This isn't like childish wish casting or manifesting. Bannon and
Trump aren't sitting at home with a vision board and
a glue stick. Okay, they are planning it. They're designed.
(21:00):
I am sure they're talking to lawyers. I'm sure they're
talking to constitutional experts. They are talking to all the
people they'd need to help them do it. They're getting
all their ducks in a row, believe him. And while
Democrats are letting Republicans steamroll them over this shutdown, they
(21:21):
should be taking this threat very seriously. I'm not saying
this to scare you. I'm not saying that he will
definitely get a third term. I'm saying he will try.
He will try, just like he tried on January sixth,
and if we aren't prepared, he might just get to
break our democracy to do it, believe him. Okay, that's
(21:45):
it for me this week. Thanks for tuning in too,
Talking Politics. Be sure to send us an email at
off the Cup at gmail dot com. Off the Cup
Cup with two p's at gmail dot com, Comments, questions,
things you want us to tackle on Talking Politics. I'd
love to hear it. You can also tune into Talking
Coffee and write to us about Talking Coffee and don't
(22:07):
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If you want more, check out the other Reason Choice
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(22:27):
For Off the Cup, I am your host, se Cup.
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and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday.
Welcome to Talking Politics, where I am your enlightened spirit guide,
helping you on your journey of discovery as we explore
America's fascinating and ever changing political landscape. Just kidding, let's
talk some trash. Seriously, this isn't the time for deep
thoughts and intellectualism. As much as I love them, Hayek
(00:27):
and John Locke can't help us now. Now is the
time for outrage. It is the time to get focused.
It's the time to save our democracy. In a bit,
i'll share my political hot take of the week, the
thing in a mess of news that really got my attention.
But first my interview. Saving our democracy is complicated, isn't it.
To make a meaningful change, you have to have some power,
(00:51):
And to have some power, you have to win elections.
Democrats lost the big election in twenty twenty four. We're
all living with the consequences of that loss. Whether it's
the shut down fight where the courts or Trump's tariffs.
There just isn't much Dems can do to stop Trump
or even hold them accountable. And even if you like
what Trump is doing, that is so dangerous. We need
(01:14):
two strong parties. We need checks and balances. We need
a president with some accountability because a president with absolute
power will be corrupted absolutely. And as Trump grifts off
the American people and cashes in on the presidency oversees
here at home, people are hurting. Nearly half of US
(01:34):
states are in an actual recession. US veterans have turned
to food donations during a government shutdown. Our soybean farmers
have no one to sell soybeans do because of Trump's tariffs,
and it's just gonna get worse. So here's where I
give my friends in the Democratic Party some tough love
and ask when are you going to get your shit together?
(01:57):
Help answer that very rude question. I'm happy to welcome
one of the more outspoken and effective communicators in the
Democratic Party, Congressman from California, Rocanna, to talk in politics. Welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I don't think I've ever been introduced that way, with
that kind of a provocative question.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So I'll try to live up.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Listen, these are serious times. I don't have to tell you.
And as you know, I talk a lot about how
bad Trump is and how the Republican Party is a disgrace.
And I do that as a conservative, I do it
as a former Republican but if we want Trump and
trump Ism to be defeated, if we want it vanquished
so that no one ever thinks it's a good idea
again to elect a criminal with no concern for the
(02:39):
constitution or the law. Someone's got to present an alternative view.
Someone has to sell voters on a better way. Democrats
did not meet that challenge last year. Are they ready
to meet it in the midterms, Congressman.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
We need to offer a vision of economic cope at
a time of economic pessimism. That to me is the
central issue. Seventy percent of Americans don't believe in the
American dream. Donald Trump went around the country. He said,
you've lost your means of making a living. They shipped
your jobs offshore, the cover up, delete screwed you. And
I'm going to bring back good jobs. And I'm going
(03:17):
to cut prices. And what we need to now say is, Okay,
you've now had almost six years of this five six
years of this experiment, the tariffs alone. Where are the
new factories. They're not here. Manufacturing's actually down. How have
your prices? What's happened to your prices? They've actually gone up.
They're not going down. I mean your food is costing more.
(03:37):
Fruit's costing more, to coffee is costing more, and housing
is costing more because.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
The input costs. Oh the way, it's costing more even
for manufacturing.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But we have a vision of how we're going to
build economic independence and wealth across this country. I represent
a district of almost eighteen trillion dollars a wealth, and
I'll tell you, with the technology revolution, here's a real
plan for what's going to it's going to take for
every community to have jobs and high income and low
costs in the twenty first century.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I think that would win the election.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think the idea that just opposing
Trump and then simultaneously telling voters the economy is great,
Actually your safe crime is down, illegal immigration isn't a
crisis that obviously didn't work. So you need a positive agenda.
Vote for this, not against that. Do you think that
(04:30):
Democrats as a party have that agenda in place and
can unite around it, whether they're progressives or moderates, to
be a strong party getting into the midterms.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
It's taking shape. I think for the midterms.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
It's saying, look, this idea of having blanket.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Tariffs have just raised prices.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
This idea of giving tax breaks to the billionaires in
my district that already have eighteen trillion does a well,
not what the country needs of having healthcare costs go up.
But for a Virginia West Virginia couple who's making eighty
five thousand dollars to pay forty eight thousand dollars more
in healthcare costs because the Republicans don't want to fund healthcare,
(05:13):
that's not helping lower people's cost a living. And what
the Democrats will do on day one when you give
us back the House of Representatives, We're going to fight
to repeal the food terrifs to lower your grocery bills.
We're going to fight to expand healthcare so that your
premiums come down. We're going to fight to raise the
way so you have more money in your pockets. And
we're going to actually offer a real vision for how
(05:35):
young people and people are being displaced with these mass
layoffs can have good paying jobs. I call it economic patriotism.
We can go into it, but I think we have
to run on this fundamental view that people are pessimistic
about the American dream and their outcool and the Democratic
Party is going to turn around, and I don't think
we've articulated that enough. We kind of had a triumphalism
(05:55):
of Biden economics. And I'm not saying you didn't do
good things, but you know, FDR and four was saying
the country's.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Terrible and it's all Herbert Hoover's fault.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
We should not have, you know, a triumphalism when so
many Americans are pessimistic.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, I think that's an important point. And I think
you're an excellent voice for the party. I've interviewed you
a lot on TV, and I see your appearances a lot.
But do you think Democrats need some new messengers, especially
considering how old some in leadership are.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I do.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I mean, look, if I have a lot of respect
for Chuck Schumerray, we wouldn't have gotten the chipsacked Ira
bi part is an infrastructure don if it weren't him.
But like when you see him on television, does he
inspire you to think this is the guy who's going
to turn around the American dream for people? And no, No,
And you know, there was a very reasonable person who's
(06:43):
had a great career in public service. He said we
all need to know our cell by date and some
of the people have not gotten that message in.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
The Democratic Party. Doesn't mean they weren't great voices.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But you know, part of what allowed for Bernie's rise
and Trump's rise is the Democratic Party became a little
bit of a club. Like if you didn't know the
right people and if you weren't with the consultant class,
you weren't part of the conversation. And that's what allowed
for this outsider voice to come in and guess what
if the club had been the greatest generation in won
(07:12):
World War Two, maybe we would have forgiven it. But
the club presided over the decline of the American dream
and the hollowing out of industry. So it's time for
them gracefully to step aside. I think if you've been
an elective office for more than fifteen years, you probably
aren't the right voices to lead us forward.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I think it's really brave to say it's obvious, I think,
but also pretty brave to say, I'm wondering if you're
looking at someone like Saron Mundani who's totally untested. Right,
we'll see if he can pass the election test, but
then there's like the governing test. But obviously, oh, listen,
I've been covering politics a long time. I haven't seen
the kind of excitement around him since Obama in the
(07:53):
Democratic Party. And maybe it's not based on reality, but
it's there. Are you looking at someone like ron Mon
Donnie and thinking this is where we need to go
more like this?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, I'm campaigning for him on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We're doing a joint rally together in Queens and I
think what he has done and exciting people is absolutely
key to the Democratic Party.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Now we've got to be a big tent.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I've also capt paigd for Abigail Spanberger and Bennington Gap
and Mikey Cheryl m New Jersey, and I think that
the Democratic Party needs to have the excitement and energy
that Doron's bringing and his focused on affordability it particularly
in urban areas. But we also need to listen to
what Abigail Spanberger is saying about rural America and about
factory towns, and we need to listen to Markey about
(08:40):
what suburban America is telling us. And you know, people say, well,
how how can we do one or this or the other.
I said, this is a big country and if you
want to lead the country, you've got to be a
big tent, and I don't understand why Donald Trump was
like cutting deals with Robert Kennedy to win the election.
I'm not saying we destantly have to go that far,
but we can't. Slice is going to give us a majority?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, a big tent, but the Republicans have led
some very unseely people under the tent. Okay, maybe maybe
not too big a tent, but yeah, I understand what
you're saying. Who is the star of the party right now?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Well, I think the star of the twenty twenty five
elections is probably Mamnani just by the odds defying nature
of his win.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right now, I mean of the Democratic Party nationally, who's
the star?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I think that's to be seen. I mean, I really
think that we have a lot of great talent.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I mean we've got people in uh Andy, Basher and
west More and Shapiro, and I mean we've got you know,
I can go on Putaja and there's a lot of
great new voices. But I think that that they are
going to have to articulate their division. I think Kakim
is finding his footing and has really unified the caucus.
I think his he really can arise to the moment.
(09:58):
But I you know, people are afraid that we don't
have a singular leader, but we also didn't have a
singular leader after two thousand and four, and then we
got Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and then we didn't
have a singular leader after nineteen eighty eight and we
got Bill Clinton. So it's probably a good thing that
we don't have a singular leader because that means we're
actually going to have an open fight for the future
(10:19):
leadership of this party.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
And we haven't had that fight. Can you believe it?
We haven't had that since like two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
It's just been handed to the people.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I think that would be the worst, worst mistake that
the Democrats can make.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That's a good way to put it this shutdown battle.
The losers in this shutdown battle are the American people.
Goes without saying, But do you think that Democrats can
come out of this with anything?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Depends how the plane lands right now. Obviously, the most
urgent thing is that sixteen million kids are going to
go hungry the day after Halloween. Yeah, because of the
lack of snap benefits you have in sure instrument is
literally spiking.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
We're not talking about fifty percent.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
We're talking about thirty forty thousand dollars more for middle
class families. And you've got people of federal jobs are
not being paid for taking loans. So if the Democrats
can get it back open and demand a vote on
the Affordable Care Act subsidies being increased, and make it
(11:24):
very clear that we are pushing and fighting for them,
and get some concession, then I think this would we
would have held our ground. But if it ends up
being that, you know, we just cave, then it's not
going to be a good look.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Before I let you go, we end with an exit
poll where I ask you three questions of varying degrees
of seriousness.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Okay, I'll try not to flow them.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
No, you'll be fine. You're going to do fine. First questions,
what's your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
About politics? Probably the one with Jimmy Stewart.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Goes to Washington, to Washington.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
That's a n Icon one.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, I mean Just on the Waterfront is a good
movie too. It's not directly about.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Polist though, it's about labor. It's such a good movie.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So those are probably two of them.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Love on the Waterfront. Okay, what's someone on the other
side of the isle. Who is someone on the other
side of the aisle that you admire Thomas Massey.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I mean not just because we worked on the Epstein files,
but he's a thinker, and he's unusually principled. You actually
know that he takes an independent position on issues.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, clearly. And lastly, how do we save our democracy.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
By offering a vision of the alternative that is compelling?
You know, there was a book written about lenin a biography,
and there's a reason that totalitarian leaders go after universities
and intellectuals first. And I never understood this I read
this biography. It's because those are people offering ideas and
the biggest threat, Actually, it turns out to authoritarian leadership
(12:55):
is not just resistance, it's the it's the offering of
an alternative that captures people's imagination.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Gandhi did that? Doacavel did that? You know?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We need to offer an alternative that people say, you
know what, Yeah, that's something we get excited about.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Actually, that's what Zoran did.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Whether you agree with him or not, he offered an
alternative that excited people, and you see how powerful that
can be.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, Rocanna, thank you so much. For coming on. I
really appreciate it, and I'm sure I'll see up on
CNN or somewhere else soon.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah anytime. There was a great conversation with Congressman Rocanna,
and when we come back my political hot take, don't
go anywhere. Welcome back to talking politics. Before I get
to my mini mono, I wanted to check in with
(13:50):
my producer Lauren. Do we have any mail?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
My goodness, we sure do.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Oh tell me, Okay, I just is it happy or
is it nice or not nice? This one is a
good one.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
You know, we've had a little mixed bag sometimes, but yep,
we're always happy to get mail. This one comes from
a listener named Paula. Okay, she wants to say thank
you for the honest, transparent podcast. All you have said
and told about Trump is truth and facts, not Fox crap.
Anyone with a heart and decency sees what is happening
(14:22):
in our America and shame on all the greedy others
to allow all this spiteful destruction. I'm glad I'm at
the older part of my life, but not telling what
my grandchildren will have to bear from this insane behavior.
Of our president and our government. Please keep doing what
you do each day, and thank you. That feels nice.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You know that actually means a lot because two reasons. One,
she's speaking to something that's very real, which is that
like when you hear this stuff get defended a lot,
whether it's Fox or a myriad other places, you start
to think you're great. Like what I'm seeing it, so
clearly this is so bad and dangerous, and yet lots
(15:07):
of people in positions of power are defending it. You
can think maybe it isn't that bad. No, it is.
It is, And so I'm happy to be sort of
the you know, I don't know clear ride person who's
gonna tell you like it is. The Second part of
this is you're not always gonna like what I say,
because because of this, you're not. And you know, I
(15:29):
go up and down. I've got fans who'll be like, oh,
I love when you tell the truth, unless I'm give
I turf love to democrats, right or whatever it is.
So it's a double edged sword. But I'm always gonna
I'm always gonna be honest. And letters like that are
really nice because I you know, I don't always get
(15:49):
nice feedback and I don't do it for that, but
it is really nice to hear. So that's great and
thanks for tuning in, Paula. We love that. It is
very and you can email us at off the Cup
Cup with two p's at gmail dot com and give
us your takes and listen. You can be critical too,
I'm not I'm not afraid of that.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, we don't only need the positive stuff, but no,
you know, taking your questions like se is here to
answer questions if you have any, so send those in
as well.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
One hundred percent ask me anything, Ask me anything. Okay,
onto the mini mono and it starts with two words,
Believe him. Last year, almost a year ago, on October
twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, the New York Times editorial
board ran an op ed and they used a full
(16:39):
page to print out in giant boldface all caps the
following missive. They wrote, Donald Trump says he will prosecute
his enemies, order mass deportations, use soldiers against citizens, abandon allies,
and play politics with disagns. Believe him now, as we know,
(17:04):
much of this has already come true because he always
tells us what he's going to do. We saw it
outlined in Project twenty twenty five, he talked about doing
all of this stuff at his rallies. He told the
media that he was going to do it. He wasn't
issuing empty threats. He wasn't throwing this stuff out there
(17:25):
as trial balloons to pull test their popularity. He was
saying he was going to do them, because he was
going to do them. Five days after this New York
Times editorial was published, for example, Trump sued CBS for
its interview of Kamala Harris. A month after he won
his election, he sued the Des Moines Register for a
(17:45):
poll he didn't like. He told voters, I will be
your retribution, and true to his word, he prosecuted his enemies.
He's ordered mass deportations, he has used soldiers against US citizens.
He's abandoned allies, he has played politics with disasters. And
yet there are still people who think he's bluffing when
(18:09):
he says he'd like to run for a third term.
Now he's been saying it for months now. He makes
it sound a little like he's joking, but he's not.
He's saying it because he wants to do it, and
he wants to see how many people agree with him
and how many people might help him along the way.
This week, several Republicans have come out to assure us
(18:31):
Trump isn't running for a third term. Speaker Mike Johnson
laughed it off as quote trolling and said he's talked
to Trump about the constitutional constrictions, as if that has
ever stopped Trump before. Now, listen to what former Ohio
governor and presidential candidate John Kasik had to say about
(18:53):
it on MSNBC on Friday.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
No, I mean, it's just nothing to take again. Taking
that seriously, it's no Listen. Have we had any states
trying to move to call a convention to change the amendment?
Have we had any Republican governors do that. They're not
even going to ask it, answer a question like that
because it's not going to happen. I mean, I hate
to burst a balloon here because it's great headline and
(19:15):
it's a good clickbait and all that other stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Oh the hubris. What country has Kaisak been living In
the past year? Trump has broken every norm, He's violated
the Constitution dozens of times, and he's had help. Unlike
his first term where he'd get to one of these
doors where he wanted to sort of abuse or overreach
(19:40):
his power, and no one would be there to help
him open it. In fact, someone was there to close
it in his face. Mike Pence, for example, He's got
friends now, allies, accomplices who want to open those doors
for him. They're doing it now. He's got Republicans in
the House and the Senate, both chambers telling him to
(20:00):
go for a third term. Randy Fine, congressman from Florida,
called for a repeal of the twenty second Amendment. Senator
Tommy Toberville of Alabama said whether Trump decides to quote
go around the Constitution would be up to him. No,
it isn't. It definitely isn't. Look this isn't a troll.
It isn't a joke. Just listen to Steve Bannon, the
(20:24):
architect of Trump's first campaign.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
He's going to get a third term, so Trump twenty eight.
Trump is going to be president of twenty eight. And
people just want to get accommodated with that.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So what about the twenty second Amendment?
Speaker 6 (20:35):
There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, will lay
out what the plan is.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Got it, they have a plan, They'll lay it out.
I know Steve Bannon. I don't think he's bluffing either.
This isn't like childish wish casting or manifesting. Bannon and
Trump aren't sitting at home with a vision board and
a glue stick. Okay, they are planning it. They're designed.
(21:00):
I am sure they're talking to lawyers. I'm sure they're
talking to constitutional experts. They are talking to all the
people they'd need to help them do it. They're getting
all their ducks in a row, believe him. And while
Democrats are letting Republicans steamroll them over this shutdown, they
(21:21):
should be taking this threat very seriously. I'm not saying
this to scare you. I'm not saying that he will
definitely get a third term. I'm saying he will try.
He will try, just like he tried on January sixth,
and if we aren't prepared, he might just get to
break our democracy to do it, believe him. Okay, that's
(21:45):
it for me this week. Thanks for tuning in too,
Talking Politics. Be sure to send us an email at
off the Cup at gmail dot com. Off the Cup
Cup with two p's at gmail dot com, Comments, questions,
things you want us to tackle on Talking Politics. I'd
love to hear it. You can also tune into Talking
Coffee and write to us about Talking Coffee and don't
(22:07):
forget our Off the Cup interviews as well those r
all up Off the Cup on iHeart or anywhere you
get your podcasts. Thanks again. Off the Cup is a
production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network.
If you want more, check out the other Reason Choice
podcasts s, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native Land Pod.
(22:27):
For Off the Cup, I am your host, se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe
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