November 5, 2025 • 58 mins
This week, S.E. gets to indulge in one of her favorite shows, The West Wing, with Janel Moloney, who played Donna Moss across the series' 7 seasons. In this strange new streaming era where the past is present, Janel explains what it's like be on a 25-year-old hit show. Janel brings us back to her early audition days, getting — and not getting — the big breaks, and how she's evolved as a writer and actor since. For more Janel, check out her Substack.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I went in and there's Aaron Sorkin, and I was like,
holy shit. I had no idea that it was going
to be aarin with Tommy Shlami. And it was so
exciting back in the day because you'd go in and
it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here. It really felt like
you were moving forward. Yeah, even if you weren't getting
the jobs.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to off the Cup my personal anti anxiety antidote.
This might surprise you guys, but I don't watch a
ton of TV. Let me clarify. Let me clarify. I
watch a lot of TV. I watched a lot of news,
as you can imagine. You probably know I watch a
lot of Bravo, but that's about it. I've never seen
(00:42):
an episode of Game of Thrones or Ozarks or Breaking Bad.
I know, I know, I know, I know. I know.
There's a lot of reasons for this. I think because
I actually love TV. I make a living off TV.
There are so many great things on TV, from travel
and cookie shows to streamers like Severance, which I watched religiously.
(01:04):
It was one of my favorites, and awesome docs that
I can't get enough of.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But there's almost too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Much TV, and it feels a little overwhelming. And I
think for a lot of us, especially those of us
like me who struggle with anxiety, feeling overwhelmed by options
or the thing that everyone's talking about, like it makes
me just want to shut down and check out. And
so I like, I remove myself from the entire project
(01:32):
of watching TV and keeping up with TV. And in fact,
I just rewatched stuff I've already seen a thousand times.
But the other thing is, I just don't think TV
is as good.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
As it used to be.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And I don't mean good, like in terms of the product.
The product's great, there's so much good stuff on TV,
But I mean in terms of like feel good, like
making you feel good. You know, I've been rewatching Northern Exposure,
a show I loved as a kid and I love
just as much now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You could ever make the show today. It's too nice.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Ultimately, everyone's a good person. The problems are pretty anna dyne.
The small town goodness is so infectious it even infects
the hardened city kid. We'd like laugh at this kind
of show today if someone were pitching a Northern Exposure.
Which brings me to one of my favorite people, Aaron Sorkin.
(02:24):
We worked together on his show The Newsroom, but before that,
his projects like American President, West Wing.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh, they were so good. They were so good. They
were so good in terms of their writing and production.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But they were also just good, good people doing good things.
Less Coppola More Capra, as Larry Wilmore once told me,
when it came to these projects, mister Smith was already
in Washington. I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I miss that.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I miss watching shows and movies that make you feel good.
And I suppose that's what people like about Ted Lasso.
Another show I don't want, but one that I hear
makes people feel good.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's a feel good show. Don't you think we need
more of that?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I do?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And that's what I want to talk about today with
our guests.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
She's known for roles on The West Wing, Leftovers, American Crime,
Law and Order, and lots of other things. And she's
got a substack now that I love, where she shares
her life and her thoughts.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Welcome to Off the Cup, Janelle Maloney.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm so glad you're here, even just seeing you. We
don't know each other, we haven't met, but even just
seeing you, I'm just back at a different time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I'm back. I'm back in the West Wing.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It just feels like things are so different now, and
I want to talk about the West Wing.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I want to talk about Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I want to talk about all kinds of things with you,
I promise, But first, are you sick of talking about
the West Wing?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's weird, It's well part of it now. It's self
inflicted because I actually am talking about it in this substack.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, but it was all I couldn't get away from it.
And there's this crazy thing now where it feels like
I'm on a hit show that I did twenty five
years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And don't get paid for well, because everywhere I go
people say, oh my god, I love you on the
West Wing. Yeah, I mean everywhere I go, multiple times
a day, and it's it's great. Everyone's so great. The
fans are great, many many, many of them were not
born when we started West Wing.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So it's an interesting thing that I feel like a
lot of actors like we're sort of the first crop
of actors that are really dealing with these shows that
are kind of on all the time, ye everywhere forever. Yeah,
and the kids. They don't care that, like, they don't
think of it as something that was done a long
(04:52):
time ago. Oh, it's like they'll watch Gilmore Girls, they'll
watch Friends, they'll watch West Wing. It's all the same
to them. Yeah, so it's a strange thing, but it's
also you know, it was sister, It was a wonderful
part of my life. But I mean I feel like
I've had fifteen lives since then.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, and you have kind of this little time capsule
that I kind of hang around my neck and carry
with me.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And and people always want to talk about and now
I'm talking about it. So I don't know. I've mixed feelings,
but generally it's all it's all positive.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
If you can't beat them, join them.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And I know exactly what you mean, because there's a
time where I thought I'd like to move on from
politics and do something different and talk about other things.
Nobody wanted me to, Nobody cared what I had to
say if it wasn't on politics, And so I joined
substack too and decided, okay, I'll just do I'll keep
doing politics. I get it. I looked at your substack.
(05:47):
I've been following your substack it's so great and everyone
should check it out.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
There's one.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Entry where you talk about meeting a fan, a young
woman named Mattie, who tells you that she was homeschooled
and only allowed to watch The West Wing and how
important your character Donna was to her, and you say
you write as crumbly white petals fell from the sky.
I thought about last night, about Maddie and all of
the other young exquisite women Donna has introduced me to,
(06:15):
the Chloe's and Jessica's, the Claire's and Kelsey's. I know
they want to be like Donna, And if I'm honest,
maybe what I want, what I really really want, is
to be like them, to be young and uncertain on
a glorious day with my whole stink in life ahead
of me. What a great I mean, it's beautiful writing,
and what a great way of summarizing or capturing your
(06:38):
relationship with these young fans. Yeah, you're watching the West
Wing now, Yeah, and you're almost envious of them.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, Well, I think we all are envious of young people.
That's just like you can't be. You can't be. I mean,
I'm in my fifties now and there's absolutely no way
you can't look at this young, beautiful girl with their
whole life ahead of you and not think like, wow,
I mean I feel I feel it's complicated because you
(07:06):
look at the at the world right now and it's confusing.
I mean, I have kids. I don't know what the
right thing is to look at and what do you
look away from, what do you ignore? And how do
you manage your mind so that you can move forward
in an optimistic way. But these young people, they're really beautiful,
(07:30):
they really are. And you know everyone's talking about there's
so much cynicism and dystopian kind of vibes around young people, yep.
And the truth is it's like, if you really look
at the actual young people in front of you, they're
all kind of amazing and their capacity for empathy and
(07:54):
understanding and trying to work together and do all of
these things that like we look at as being a snowflake.
And I'm a gen xer, so I'm like, oh, you know,
you're ridiculous, Like everything's ridiculous that they do. But if
you look at it for real, it's powerful and it
gives me a lot of hope. And so all these
young people that I meet. They yeah, they make me
feel good. But but heck, yeah, I would. I would.
(08:16):
I'd trade being twenty five for a little while. Again,
it would be nice.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You're right, it is complicated because in so many ways
I worry about our kids, and I want to talk
to you about that in particular too. We're both boy moms.
A little later, but yeah, of course, of course you
wish you had your whole life in front of you
and didn't know, maybe didn't know some of the things
that we know would be really nice and to not
(08:41):
be sort of tainted by that, or or to be
watching west Wing for the first time. You can't do
that twice. You can only do that once. Yeah, and
that's really fun and exciting. Okay, there's more west Wing
I want to do, But first I like to start
by asking what kind of kid were you, Jane.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I was a very enthusiastic kid. I think I talked
a lot. Like I was the kid who sat at
the dinner table and kept talking while everyone else was
like doing their homework and taking showers. I was still
talking to my parents about whatever. I wanted to be
(09:19):
an actress since I was really little. Okay, but I
had a very nice, happy childhood. I have two sisters.
I have a twin sister, and we have an older brother,
and we just had a kind of soup of benign
neglect in the most wonderful eighties seventies, eighties kind of way.
(09:43):
And my parents were hairdressers, and I grew up in California,
and they were just very like Golden Bruely and atheist,
Golden Rule people, and we're just really really really good,
good good people. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Did you Were you encouraged when you realized you wanted
to be an actor?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. They would have been disappointed if I,
you know, if I didn't do it, because they were
you know, they were always those people. It's not good.
You're not supposed to raise your kids this way. But
it was like like if I had a problem with anybody,
my dad would be like, oh, that kid is just
he doesn't have what you She doesn't have what you have,
you know, screwler, Like you're better than you better. They
(10:31):
were always saying that we were better than other people,
which is like that's not you're not supposed to do that.
But but it's that kind of like irishy tribal you know,
hyping you up and not super conscious the way that
we are now, I mean, for better or worse. But
it worked. I mean I really believed in myself. So yeah, yeah,
so but yeah, they were really really encouraging. My My
(10:55):
dad came from kind of a show is adjacent fan
that I think they really wanted to be in show business.
My grandfather was a like brand burlesque shows and my
grandma was a burlesque dancer. Cool, and he grew up
in La. My dad grew up in La. So your
kid being in show business was not anything but like sure,
(11:18):
of course, Like why wouldn't you be in show business?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So right?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And so how involved do you get as a kid?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I didn't get I really wanted to do it, but
I didn't manage to do it. I was I tried
to get an agent. I did get an agent when
I was young, but I was very tall, and you know,
back in the day, you had to be like a
munchkin to work as an as an actor. You know,
you had to be like a tiny person that looked
(11:47):
ten years younger than they were.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I was like a giant person that looked ten years
older than I was. So they were like pass I
could never work, but it was good because I didn't
need to. But I was in every play and yeah,
you know, I did all of the drama stuff, and
yeah I was. I was really into it and my
parents were delightful.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
What do you do after high school?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
After high school? I went to a very random drama
school on the East Coast called Sunny Purchase. And the
reason I went there, for all of your listeners who
don't know, there was a time before the Internet when
(12:32):
we dinosaurs just learned about things through like other people
telling you, or like random pamphlets that happened to be
in the rivalry school. Yeah, and I had an acting
teacher who was a huge, huge influence in my life.
His friend taught at this school. And I was auditioning
(12:54):
for Juilliard because Juilliard was the only school that exists.
Did yeah, because that's where all the famous people went,
and and you didn't know anything else. You just knew,
like I just knew with the famous people. I didn't
have any help. My parents didn't go to college. It
wasn't like a college kind of time for us. And
(13:18):
then yeah, he went there. I didn't get I auditioned
for Juilliard. I did not get into Juilliard, and I
got in there. I got another school, and then I
went to the one that I thought was in New York.
Turns out it's in White Plains, right, two very difficult
hours away from Yeah, and there was no there was
(13:38):
like no train. So I went to I think New
York the entire time I was there, but I didn't stay.
I dropped out and moved back to LA and waited
on tables forever.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So Suny purchase one of the state universities of New
York and a very good arts school.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Lots of friends that went there.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, but I know, I I know what you
mean back then, like if someone wasn't coming to your
high school to recruit you for school, like you didn't
know about it unless you saw it in movies and TV,
and yeah, you know, I get it. So you leave
because you are not feeling it what's going on? I didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I didn't like the program, to be honest. I felt
like it was going through a transitional time. The work
that I saw I wasn't that crazy about. And I
had just met an acting teacher before I left for school,
and this was my acting teacher's name was Roy London,
(14:37):
and he was a major influence in my life. And
I just thought he was magic, and I really felt
a strong pull, and I thought, if I'm not, if
I don't really want to be a stage actress, and
I realized that it's not really what I wanted to do.
I grew up in the tradition of like Meryl Streep
and Stacy's Basic and Denver Winger and all these people,
(14:59):
and I I grew up in la and I really
liked the camera. And I even knew then I really
liked the camera, and so I went back and studied
with Roy, and I really dug in. I was like,
really really into the class, and it was kind of
my college and it was a lot of fun. It
was really.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Probably a better education than.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah. I mean, if I were to do it now,
if I could look at my young self and I
had all the resources and the parental guidance and all
of that stuff, I think I would have really enjoyed
going to a university and acting there. I think that
would have been probably a better fit for me. Yeah,
And I think I would have known my like my
history a little bit better than I do now. My
(15:45):
kids are doing this thing now where they're like, mom,
look at this math. Do you get this? I'm like, no, no, bitch,
I do not get it, Like, don't you.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Mean to me? No? No, And they're doing new math now,
and so I can't even help him do alf that
maybe I could do if I knew how they were
teaching him how to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
But I don't even I can't even.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not for us. It's not for us.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Not for us.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Do you know? My son will be like, this is
a terrible tangent, But he just learned about nine to eleven.
And I lived nine to eleven in New York City
and I have a lot of associations with it, including
a whole stack of photographs that I took that day
in the city, which I have not opened since then.
My son is like, can we talk about nine to eleven?
(16:33):
And I know you've got some stuff And I said, yeah,
I have photographs. He goes, are they in black and white?
I go what I said? What he said, Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Was black and white back then, right. I'm like, in.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Two thousand and what your grandparents have colored photo? What
the weirdest thing i'd ever heard, I ever heard. But yeah,
I mean they yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just old.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So do you find it easy or hard to break
in once you're back in LA you're studying with Roy?
How is it breaking in?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's impossible, It's impossible. It's every day obsession. It's scene
work and auditions and bringing clothes in your car and
going to Studio City and then going to Burbank and
then going back to Hollywood and then going to take
(17:33):
a nap, and then going to your restaurant and calling
in on your machine and realizing you didn't get the
part and crying in the bathroom. I mean, you just
copy and paste that for ten years, and that's basically
what I did. And I worked a fair amount. I
got close enough to really important things and got wonderful
(17:55):
feedback and connections, and that I knew.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
I was.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Good and I knew I was in the right field. Ye,
But I couldn't really get anybody to give me a
significant chance. And I did. I worked a little bit, yes, right,
And I had wonderful support from wonderful casting directors, which
is something that's kind of I mean, I guess it
still exists. But you never meet the people, So how
(18:23):
much can they really love you? How much can they
feel like like, yeah, like really going like going out
of their way for you when they've never like seen
your face in person, right, they've never like hug given
you a hug or shut your hand, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I mean, so you hear a lot of well, I
hear a lot of that sort of still exists in
theater and especially on Broadway, where everything's just concentrated in
one place. You were meeting casting directors regularly seen for
other jobs, and if you have a good relationship with
a casting team for a show, they will go out
(19:02):
of their way, they'll recommend you for the next show.
But we also talked to a lot of actors, film
television actors who say the same thing, that they're auditioning
over a zoom. They don't make these relationships anymore that
can make or break a job, and.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's just it's so.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It's just such a static kind of experience.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Now, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think that the richness that
I had from just hammering at it for you know,
for ten years, that kind of made me who I am.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Don't know that kids are going to have that kind
of resilience that I think I had from that in
a certain sense of pride, like every dollar I've made,
I've made myself. Every job I got was because I
did the work and sacrificed and whatever. And obviously there's
luck involved, of course, but yeah, but I worked really hard.
(20:00):
I really did, and I worked too hard. I wish
I had spent more time having fun and being young
and going out, but I, you know, I was really
serious and yeah, and I took it really seriously, and
you know, and it paid off. I mean, when I
met Aaron and Tommy, it was kind of a culmination
of several different relationships the casting director, the producer John
(20:25):
Tommy and Aaron, who I had worked for briefly on
Sports Night, Right, all of these things coming together that
after many many years, and then everybody kind of trusted
me because they had known me in all these different
different ways. And it wasn't a very big part either,
So it wasn't like Allison's part or Brad's part, where
(20:46):
you know, I didn't test, I didn't do anything. I
just I just auditioned for them.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So oh okay, well, yeah, I was going to ask
that because I know, you know, you get, you get
some TV movies, you get a murder she wrote an er,
and then you get an episode of Sports Night. Uh,
one of Aaron's shows before The West Wing. I love
that show too.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
How did that?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
How did that come to you? And then how did
the West Wing come to you?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Well? Actually, it's funny. I don't really I don't know
that I've ever even really told a story before publicly.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That was the best words.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I've never told this story before. Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Go no, I think so someone might say, oh, no,
she's We've heard it twelve times. I like I have
like other mother brain.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I had a roommate, Bonnie Zane, who is still
my friend and wonderful and okay, she was the casting
director of She did a lot of TV shows, a
lot of really good comedies, and I was like busting
my ass in the restaurant. I was a hostess in
(21:49):
a restaurant at the time, and she never brought me
in on anything, and I was always like, dude, I've
lived with you for like three years. We went through
that giant an earthquake together, you know, like like I thought,
I meant something, Wow, we are bonded, Like why have
you never brought me in on anything. And she literally
(22:09):
like never brought me in and I never could understand it.
And I thought, okay, that's just her thing. Fine if Annie,
if you're listening, I love you. And then I swear
to you. The day before she moved out, she said, oh,
I have an audition for you. It's this thing I'm
doing called Sports Night, and I think she left me
(22:31):
the sides, and I had the audition the next morning.
I didn't know it was Aaron Sorkin that wrote it, okay,
because it was so fast. I just got the sides.
I didn't get the script. I didn't do anything. Yeah,
And there was this big, beautifully written kind of speech
and I thought, this isn't funny. This isn't funny. I
(22:52):
don't get this. This isn't funny. And then I kept
trying to find jokes in it, and I was like,
I can't find a joke. So then I worked on
a and I said, you know, and I'm just going
to do it straight because I don't think this is
a joke. I don't get it, but I'm just going
to do it straight. Yeah, And then I did that,
and so it was Bonnie was the one who who
introduced me to Aaron and Tommy, and then I went
(23:13):
in and there's Aaron Sorkin and I was like, holy shit.
I had no idea that it was going to be
Aaron and Tommy Shlammy. And it was so exciting back
in the day because you'd go in and it's like
you'd walk in and it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here
or oh, you know wherever it, and you really it
really felt like you were moving forward, even if you
(23:34):
weren't getting the jobs. It was like you were in
the room with people and now you have no kids,
they have no idea where their tapes go, who sees
them what, It's just like it's like going into the void.
But then I I and this Tommy have has said,
which Tommy cried, Tommy Shlammy cried when I did my
(23:56):
my am oh my thing, and it was like it
was just very naive. The whole thing was very naive
and very sweet and yeah, and then yeah, I got
that and it was a week of work and it
was lovely. And then a while passed and then I
got the audition for Donna and it was a everyone
knows this. I auditioned for CJ first, and then I
(24:18):
didn't get that. And then they called me and said,
you want to audition for this other part and it's
not a regular it's a small part. And I said okay,
and and then I did and I got it.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Were you worried about the dialogue? No, never, Most actors
fear Aaron's dialogue because it's great, it's quick, it's long.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
You know. The thing about it is that it's just
really really beautiful. The emotional thread and the connection in
the scene is a very usually quite meaningful, beautiful connection.
And if you don't worry about the words, you have
to make it about the scene and what's going on
(25:06):
in the scene. And then the words just happened. I
don't think any of us ever thought, oh, we just
have to do this really fast. And people would always
audition and call me and say, I'm auditioning for your show.
Should I just like, I just feel really nervous. Should
I just do it really fast?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And I'm like, no, just be good, don't do it
really fast just because yea, and make it real. And
I mean Richard Schiff wasn't fast, you know what I mean?
He was he was Richard Schiff yeaes Toby.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, we interviewed Bradley Whitford last season and he talked
about how hard that show was to do the schedule.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
In the hours, and how hard it was on Aaron too.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, also how much he loved it obviously, but just
that it was demanding, rigorous.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, is that how you felt as well?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
No, I thought it was awesome. I loved every minute,
but also I didn't so for them. Yes, Aaron, I
don't know how he did it. He tortured himself. He
probably could have written less, that's what he said. Yeah,
And Brad was kind of the lead, and so they
(26:14):
had a lot to do all the time. I always
wanted more. I couldn't get enough because I was like
a kid in the candy shop and I had a
wonderful role, but you know, sometimes I'd have like a
couple of little scenes and I would be like, and
then I'd have something a lot, and it was just
I was just always, you know, most actors just want more.
And Brad, I remember Brad, he said, I mean, this
(26:40):
is one of those I don't know. Well, I'll tell
you this. So Brad we had he had a season
I can't remember which season it was, but it was
like he was hammered. He had so much stuff to do.
He was he was in everything for like weeks and
weeks and weeks, and I think that and he was
complaining and he was like falling apart. But you know,
(27:02):
always great, always Brad doing a great job. Totally a pro.
But you could tell it was really it was really
a lot of work. And he had young kids. And
then they came to him and said, I I remember
them coming to him and saying, we're gonna we're going
to write you less like we've got a whole storyline.
We're going to write you. And I'm pretty sure he's like, no, no,
(27:25):
don't no, no, I'm good, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Never mind.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That kind of says it all about actors right there. Yes, yeah,
they all want to be the star of the show.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So you're filming the seventh season when John Spencer unexpectedly
dies and I know that was a huge blow to
the cast and crew. What did it What did that
feel like when you found that out?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You know, I think it was just like the ending
of the show in a way. We just kind of
all felt like, oh okay, well, time to go home,
you know, time to go home. And Brad, I remember,
Brad was the one that told me. He called me
and and told me, and I was in the car
(28:26):
and and and then we all, you know, we all
got together that night, as I remember, and and we
just really treasured him, and and I think all of
us individually treasured him. And it felt like it was
just the beginning of the winding down of the show.
(28:47):
And I think it was we were kind of moving
toward that direction anyway. I think they always envisioned it
being about that many seasons, so so yeah, it was.
It was. It was good. It was time to time
to wind it wind it up.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Were you worried at all about what's next for you?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Sure? Yeah, I still am. I'm just still like, what's
going to happen after the West Wing? Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Years laturns. After the West Wing, I'd have to talk
about we have to talk about Amber Fry because I
walked one witness for the real plos cute.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
It was so good, Janelle, No, you were so good.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
How did that role come to you?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
How did it come to me? They asked me to
do it? And and Mary McCormick talked me into it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
What how did Mary McCormick talk you into it?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Because I didn't think I should do it. It seemed
cheesy and I didn't want to do it, and I
was nervous because West Wing is so so yeah, and
I thought, oh, this cheesy. And it was kind of
the beginning of like the whole It wasn't quite weren't
we weren't into social media yet, but it was kind
(30:10):
of the beginning of like this sort of moment where
all of the country would focus on one kind of
sortid story. And we had gone through Bill and all
that stuff, and I think it was just kind of
sorted and really really huge. And she had this gigantic
(30:31):
book that sold like eight gazillion copies, and I think
that it seemed like if a gazillion people watched the show,
it would have been really good for me. And that
was the strategy, really, And yeah, and the pay was good.
I wasn't getting like a ton of other offers, and
(30:52):
it seemed like a risky but a good thing to do.
And yeah, it was fine. It wasn't one of my
great memories as an actress, but I can, for some
weird reason, Aaron Sorkin loves this, loves that. That movie.
Why he always talks about it with me when when
(31:13):
I see him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I gotta tell you a lot of people watched it.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I remember watching it. It was really good.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But I wondered, I don't know this, did you Did
you work with Amber? Was she involved in this project?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I talked to her on the phone, but no, I
never I never worked with her.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, do you know was she happy with the depiction?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I don't know. I really don't know. I just talked
to her when we Yeah, I talked her the beginning,
and then that was it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, we were just all really captivated by that case.
And I know what you mean, like, yeah, we got
really we got really into it. There's just there's a
lot of people today who don't believe that Scott Peterson
did that, which.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Is yeah, fascinating. Yeah, Aaron, Actually the last time I
saw him, I hadn't seen him in a really long time,
and like the first thing he asked me when I
saw him was if I thought Scott Peterson did it?
And I'm like, what are you talking about, Aaron? I mean,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Maybe we're going to get an Aaron Sorkin Scott Peterson movie.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah. Maybe maybe because he's.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
So interested in it. Oh, I'll have to ask him
about it. That's great. What TV do you watch today?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I watched, well, I watched this thing that I'm gonna
have to google while I'm talking to you. It's this
Jacob Elod thing, this Australian thing, Jacob aldilt Elo d elo.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
D isn't it it's a lordie but they're fine, Okay,
it's a LORDI yep.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That was really beautiful. It's about World War two and
Australians that were kept as prisoners of war in Japan.
And it was just very beautiful, very very very good.
It's called The.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Narrow Road to the Deep North. I got it.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I got it, and I highly recommend. Okay one season
twenty twenty five. I see, Yeah, it's very good. It's
very beautiful. It's kind of it's very very beautiful. And
I'm watching a lot of Dexter because my thirteen year
old son, it's really watching Dexter, which is kind of disturbing,
but he really likes it. We're not very I don't know,
(33:31):
there's We've watched a lot of things that are not
that appropriate in my house.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, we really have. I don't know what happened. I
have two boys, and my husband is a film composer,
and he loves movies, and we all love movies, and
and and I think if it's a good movie, I think.
My husband sometimes will be like, yeah, we watched so
and so, and I'll be like, why did you watch that?
But sometimes I'll suggest something like from the eighties, you know,
(33:59):
when you do that and you're like, oh, let's watch
pretty in pink or something, and then it's like there's
a date rape and there's a you know whatever, like
all this crazy stuff that we thought was okay back then. Totally,
there's all these moments that you regret.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You live in Brooklyn, right you're raising your family in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I left the city before I.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Had my son, and I always wonder how different he
would be if I had stayed in the city because
I lived in the city for a long time. Do
you ever think about that, like who your kids would
be if if they'd grown up like in the suburbs
or like at a farm.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Not really, although you know, I wonder sometimes if they
would have just been outside more. But my friends who
live in the suburbs. They're all their kids wanted, especially boys.
They all want to do the same thing, which is
they all want to stay inside and play video games
(35:10):
and watch YouTube. And I'm not sure that we're it's
a location thing anymore, you know. In Yeah, But and
at the same time, my kids like take the subway
by themselves and talk to strangers on the street and
navigate a lot of interesting things that I don't think
(35:33):
other people have to navigate growing up in a in
a in the suburbs. Yes, and they're exposed to a
lot of a lot of really cool things too, a
lot of art and a lot of but mostly just
the street life is what makes it so unique. And
now they're fifteen and thirteen, and I've kind of stopped
worrying about who they would become and would it be
(35:57):
better in a different place, you know, we're like big
grass is always greener people over here. So I think
that that's settled down a lot over the past year,
just because when you have a kid that's in tenth
grade and and you know there you are where you're
going to stay there until they graduate, So.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Right, yeah, for sure, but for sure, Yeah, But.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think it's an exciting place to grow up in
Brooklyn is really it's very sweet where we live.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So yeah, yeah, I think about, you know, the environments
we raise our kid, our kids in and think about
it all the time. Because my kid, we live in
the suburbs. We have to expose him to things if
we want him to be exposed, because he just wouldn't
be here. And yeah, that's what we do. You know,
(36:47):
we're in the city. I work in the city. He's
in the city a lot, but we travel a lot.
But he's really I don't know if it's because of
this or it is just who he is, but you know,
he's very afraid of change. And he's experienced, you know,
like no change, like not even a little change.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Right, He's grown up in this house, this town, this school.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Everything stayed the same to parents, same grandparents. Nothing's happened
to this kid in his life. Meanwhile, my childhood was
defined by change. I had marked a thousand times. My
parents got divorced, then remarried. I was always the new kid.
It was incredibly unstable. I had great parents, but it
was an unstable childhood compared to his. Okay, and I
(37:35):
got I think about, like, what is he's so afraid
of in terms of change, and maybe in his mind
he's experienced change and I'm just not aware of it.
So I asked him one day. I was like, Jack,
you know, I know you really don't like change, Like
he never wants us to move from this house. So
I was like, so, Jack, what's been the biggest change
you think you've ever experienced?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
And he said so when we got the new couch.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
But yeah, okay, yeah, we're very different, right, And so.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Does he talk like does he talk about it? Like?
How do you know he's afraid of change?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Because if you haven't done any change exactly? He says
it all the time. Jack, wouldn't it be fun to
even changes we think would be an upgrade? Absolutely? Not?
Like we have a dog. He loves the dog. The
dog's wonderful. Jack, What if we got a new dog.
I don't want a new dog. We have we have
a dog. A new dog would be change, But you'd
(38:34):
love a new dog? No, no, no, no, I'm good
with exactly how things are right now.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Right, which you want to be like, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We have obviously created a world for him, a life
for him that he loves. But at the same time,
I just think, wow, I was raised in change, it
got very resilient and adapting to it. He's been raised
in no change.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Now really fears it.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And you just wonder like, Okay, maybe this sheltered bubble
of a life that we thought was going to be
going to be great and sort of inoculate him from
my kind of childhood. Maybe it's having an oddly adverse
effect of making him scared of everything else, which or
I think he just want to see everything else, or.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
He's just that's his personality. Maybe he's a little rigid
and and that's just who he is. And if you
had a whole bunch of kids, you'd be like, oh,
well that's my little bit more rigid kid. And then
that the other there's the other one's the wild one,
and that's the you know, it's it's hard when.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
You have maybe it's just handed.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, you have just the one, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I have just the one, so I have no comparison.
I can't do experiments.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's just like it's.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Just it's just maybe he's just got like a little
old man soul and he just wants to kind of
keep things the way they are, and you know, what
that they thing is that things will happen and he
will have to change and he will have to take
on new things because that's life. So if he's what
like eight or nine years what is he like nine
(40:12):
years old or ten? Yeah, yeah, he'll get plenty of
change and oh yeah, because that's life, you know, and
the world he's going to grow up in. Oh my god,
God help him not being okay with change. He's going
to have out twenty five professions before the time he's thirty,
and like true, like who knows, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I think about that too, Like I don't even and
I hear this from a lot of parent friends that
I have, Like I don't even know how to prepare
our kids for today, Yeah, because we don't grow up
with the stuff that they have to deal with I
know today, And it feels very unsettling.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah. I think I write a lot about this. And
the sub stack is that is that like the balance
between having ideals and having like optimism and and then
balancing it with reality and the past. Because the past
was very idealistic. Now it feels very really dystopian. But
(41:10):
I can tell you from my own kids, they're they're
they're quite optimistic, and I find it really stunning. You know,
we were talking. I know, we don't talk about politics,
but we were taught. They were talking about Zorn and
and you know, it's a big subject in our house
because it's it's the mayor. And and my son is
(41:34):
very My fifteen year old is like, listen, I don't
know that he has the goods to take care of
such a complicated city, but let's give him a shot.
He's so optimistic, and I'm going to be optimistic, and
I'm going to be and he was like just so sweet,
(41:54):
and and I think that that you know, they are born,
and they're into the world that they're born into. We
all are, and you know, we can't control that for
them anymore than your parents could could control it for us.
And they're going to have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
You know, I'm writing about conspiracy theories right now and
how young boys especially are susceptible to them, and it
makes me very worried.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
We were somewhere recently and the ten year old boys,
not my son because he's not interested in any of this,
but his little group start talking about Charlie Kirk and
I was like, hey, you're too young to even know
who that is. And I don't know why this person's
you know, in your brain. But I I worry about
some things with our boys. Oh yeah, particular especially with
(42:48):
YouTube and oh yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
A scourge stuff. Yeah, it really is. And I don't know.
I mean, I I think that if I were to
say thing that scares me the most as a parent, it's,
you know, aside from something terrible happening to my kids,
not gonna work, that's never gonna happen, but just this
that their mind is just going to be completely stolen,
(43:13):
you know, yes, And that's what we're telling me about that.
But then I also see them growing, okay, and see
them like my thirteen year old has a very different
way of processing things than my fifteen year old, And
my fifteen year old is getting more mature, and his
mind is getting more mature, and you can see his
(43:34):
own thoughts and his own opinions and trusting his own
like knowing what sources to trust and what not to trust.
And and they're like being raised by the internet. I
don't know who the hell they're looking at and what
they're I mean, none of us do. So I think
The best thing that we've done, my husband and I
is to really talk about it in a super open
(43:57):
way about all of it. And and if they say,
you know, they'll start talking about stuff that I'm like,
that sounds like internet talk there, that sounds like YouTube talk.
And I don't challenge them like where did you get
that from, because it's it's it's like we'll make them
feel defensive, like they're, hey, I'm in the world. I'm
(44:17):
I can pay attention to things. But you have to
kind of reflect back to them constantly what they're talking about.
And and some of it is not correct, you know.
But hopefully if they go to a good school and
they have people talking to them about digital, you know, literacy,
(44:38):
they'll but but some of it they just they just
can't help. I see the kids becoming very cynical about
a lot of the progressive ideas. Not not necessarily my boys,
but I feel like I noticed this in Brooklyn, like
that there's a lot of kids that are kind of
(44:58):
pushing back, which disturbs me because I feel like that
it's gonna end up making kids more interested in going
towards that manisphere sort of place.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, same, and yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Again I've decided to look at all the boys that
I know instead of all the boys I don't know,
and look at the boys that I have instead of
the ones I fear that I will help, because you know,
the boys are like the boys in my life and
my friend's boys. They're all really smart and really great
and and have girlfriends and are not living in their
(45:35):
basements and are or boyfriends and you know, and are
just like living their their their lives and they're they're
weirdly optimistic, which I God bless them, as we know.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I know, but like that's incourreaged. No, that's really encouraging
to hear, because as you know, you know, my son's
a couple of years behind yours. But I'm very fearful,
and I'm in this business too, so I can over
index sometimes how you know, pervasive it is, because for me,
it just feels like it's everywhere. You're right, like, I know,
(46:06):
plenty of boys in kids school in town and they're
doing great and.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, yeah, and you'll see when you get a little
bit older, you'll see look at all your friends that
whose boys are going to college and having great time,
and the boys that are like taking you know, going
to study music, and so and so and doing this lives,
living their lives. And I think one of the things
that's really bad right now in the way that our
(46:31):
media is kind of set up is that everything's kind
of an emergency. So right now, it's like, if your
algorithm is about boys, all you hear about is like boys, boys, boys,
boys are not doing okay. The boys are not all right.
And so as a boy mom, you're like, oh my god,
(46:52):
how do I control that? But it's it's probably not
any I mean, you know, everything has a tendency to
show itself to you in your in your phone and
in your in the algorithm, and just like the trend
of of what people are worried about, we cycle through
them and and I don't know, I think you have to.
(47:13):
I hear you talking a lot about this on your
podcast about just like protecting yourself from from these elements.
It's a lot to try to manage, you.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Know, it really is, and it can yeah, and it
can be a feedback loop. It doesn't actually help you
see things, clearly, No, I.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Don't think it does. Yeah, it's how you have to
kind of pick and choose how you how you you know,
consume the news, totally.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Don't go anywhere more. Off the cup with Janelle Maloney
after the break. Okay, let's do a lightning round before
or I let you go. Okay in a West Wing freeboot.
(48:10):
Where's Donna today? What's she up to?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I mean, listen, I would pitch for Donna to be president. Sorry, yes,
we need a female president. And why not Donna? You
didn't know, You don't know what she She was kind
of the youngest. You don't know what she did in
all those years she was on and upward trajectory. She's
got her kids in college and she's she's maybe she's
(48:36):
the president, right, So okay, I'll do that. I love
I was gonna go a little lower and I'm like,
why Donna's the president?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
What's your favorite of your husband's compositions.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh that's so nice. I love well. Okay, So this
one that's out now is K pop Demon Hunters.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yes, and he has obsessed with that.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And everyone's kind of obsessed with that, and I love
it just because the actual music is incredible. I mean,
the songs are incredible that the day wrote he didn't
write the songs, of course, he does he does the
score score right, But the score is exquisite, but only
mostly because it was such a fun surprise that we
just can't believe it. It was like this kind of
(49:32):
random thing that he did, and it's this gigantic, huge, huge,
crazy phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I'm sure you well, I don't want to make assumptions,
but those songs are in my head all day. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh, your son likes it.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Oh, he's it all day.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Cute, cute, really cute, and they're great songs. I'm not mad.
There are times when I'm like annoyed by those songs
he gets obsessed with. These are not annoying. They're wonderful
and it's a great score. It's a great movie. You
can listen to.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Only one album for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
One album for the rest of my life? Abbey Road?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Oh my god, that's mine too.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Feel like it's the only correct one.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah yeah, I mean, what else are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
What else are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Exactly right, Yeah, exactly right. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Or I might listen to James Taylor's greatest hits.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Well, that's great because it would just be.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So soothing or I might listen to Court and Spark.
I love Jon, but you didn't ask me three different things.
That's not fair.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
I like all of those answers. I'm sticking with the Beatles.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You have to go kind of classic and old school.
You know, you can't be like, yeah, I'm not going
to listen to Tyler the Creator, you.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Like take Cray. It's got to be someone who has
withstood the test of time.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I let your parents listen to Like, it has
to be something.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, okreat what's your favorite meal?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well? I really like this thing that I actually wrote
about in a sub stect called pica gio, which is
like a Brazilian meal that's me And it's like stewed
meat and with rice and beans and it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yep yep. What's something you want to do more of?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Right?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
And cook?
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (51:32):
What's been your worst vacation?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
My worst vacation, I don't know what's coming to mind
is when I was with my parents to Santa Barbara.
It was one of two vacations that we took. I
only have had seven days of vacation in my entire
life as a child, which when my kids complain about
(51:57):
going places, I'm like, you know, I have actively seven
seven days of vacation growing up, so stop complaining. I
went to Santa Barbara and I was sick the whole time,
and I threw up in the garbage. Can I just.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
Remember not fun?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
No, that'll ruin it. Yep, that'll do it. Okay.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
I'm sure there's a more dramatic thing as an adult,
but I can't. I probably blocked it out.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sure, Sure, besides something related to your career. What's something
you're secretly so good at that you could teach a
class on it?
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Well, I really think I could do an excellent cookie
making class. Like really, my mom was an incredible baker
and I have kind of mad cookie making skills.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
From excellent, Yeah, great, what's your what's your best cookie?
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Well, there's this cookie that actually Martin Sheen really liked
and it's like a it's almost like a rogue law
but it's flat and it's like this pinwheel that you
caught and it's got jam on the inside and it's
just really good.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
That sounds good. That sounds amazing. Mom groups yay or nay.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yay and or no, you're sure, I don't. I'm not
in any but I'm not against them. I would like
to be in a book club, but I can't get
anyone to do it.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
So what are you a fan of mom? You're not
in any But what makes you a fan?
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Well, because it's fun to hang out with people and
and is that what you mean, like, don't you hang
out with moms? I don't know. I've never been in one.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Me neither, but me neither.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
But yeah, sure I love a group. Yeah, I'm pro
I actively.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, it's this whole idea that like we we're all
friends because our kids are in school together or or
yeah whatever. And I've eschewed mom groups because I just
don't want added pressure for me, but I can I
can also see the benefit of them for lots of women.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah. Also I think that you know, you work, and
you like work, work, work, and you're out of your
house all the time and you're super busy. There's a
lot of moms said that, don't that like need the
community and that's kind of how they connect, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, yes, is it hard to make mom friends being
a famous person?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
I don't, I mean no, I mean, I don't know.
I have a lot of friends that are moms that
I've made and and I don't know that it was hard.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Now there's some people that I think we wanted to
be friends with me because they were Donna Moss fans
a couple.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
That's what I mean. Yeah, but you can tell that right.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
No, but I'm really good friends with them now because
they are super nice, and I don't blame them because
the show is good and it was just like an
It's just like the beginning of the friendship and then yes,
you end up.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I have a friend who I really like, and one time,
deep in our friendship, like a year, and she called
me Donna. I thought she was gonna die. I thought
she was gonna die. She was so embarrassed. But it
didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, okay, our boys are obsessed with memes and slang.
What meme or slang is annoying you the most? Right now?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
There's so many that I don't even know if I can.
What's you go first?
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Six seven six seven?
Speaker 1 (55:33):
I haven't heard that. No, I haven't heard that lucky,
I haven't heard that.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
I'd be too young for your boys.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
But it's no.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
One that I like is probably bad. I didn't even
know what it means, but they'll just say, oh, that's lit.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, lit. Yeah, it is good. That is good.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, and that's cute. I like that. But I try
to lay some eighties stuff on them and they're like,
that is so stupid.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
You know. Okay, guys, no, you sound really cool with skibbity. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
I say like, oh, you're so stuck up, and they're like,
what is stuck up? I said stuck up as like
classic or you're so moded? Did you do moded? I
thought that maybe that was regional, like a California thing,
but I know my sisters remember that, my sisters and
I will still say oh, you're so moded, and people
(56:23):
will be like, what are you saying? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
So good.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I should bring back some slang yeah for him as well.
That's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
The last question is very important to me. We ask
it every time. When is iced coffee season.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
I am not a huge ice coffee person, okay, but
when I do drink it, it's it is in the summer. Yeah, okay,
But I can tell you because I live around the shop,
from around the corner from an extremely popular cafe with
(56:59):
iced coffee that everyone loves. The young people it's always
iced coffee season.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
That makes me feel young because it's always iced coffee season.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, it's a generational thing. The young people. They don't
believe in hunt coffee.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
Well, maybe that's true.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I'm not young enough. In fact, I've talked about this
on the show where I'm you know, I'm in perimenopause
and i had to switch to decaf because the caffeine
was no longer working for me. And I've just been
an iced coffee drinker since i was very, very very young. Yeah,
but I love it. Good.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Good to know I'm a hip with the kids though.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, I think the kids are really into it.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Well, Janelle, this was so lovely and it was really
great to meet you and great to talk to you
and go back to the West Wing and talk about
our kids. It was really nice. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, I know it's fun definitely.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land pod. For Off the Cup, I
am your host, Se Cup. Editing and sound design by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman rate and review Wherever you get your podcasts,
(58:15):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
I went in and there's Aaron Sorkin, and I was like,
holy shit. I had no idea that it was going
to be aarin with Tommy Shlami. And it was so
exciting back in the day because you'd go in and
it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here. It really felt like
you were moving forward. Yeah, even if you weren't getting
the jobs.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to off the Cup my personal anti anxiety antidote.
This might surprise you guys, but I don't watch a
ton of TV. Let me clarify. Let me clarify. I
watch a lot of TV. I watched a lot of news,
as you can imagine. You probably know I watch a
lot of Bravo, but that's about it. I've never seen
(00:42):
an episode of Game of Thrones or Ozarks or Breaking Bad.
I know, I know, I know, I know. I know.
There's a lot of reasons for this. I think because
I actually love TV. I make a living off TV.
There are so many great things on TV, from travel
and cookie shows to streamers like Severance, which I watched religiously.
(01:04):
It was one of my favorites, and awesome docs that
I can't get enough of.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But there's almost too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Much TV, and it feels a little overwhelming. And I
think for a lot of us, especially those of us
like me who struggle with anxiety, feeling overwhelmed by options
or the thing that everyone's talking about, like it makes
me just want to shut down and check out. And
so I like, I remove myself from the entire project
(01:32):
of watching TV and keeping up with TV. And in fact,
I just rewatched stuff I've already seen a thousand times.
But the other thing is, I just don't think TV
is as good.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
As it used to be.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
And I don't mean good, like in terms of the product.
The product's great, there's so much good stuff on TV,
But I mean in terms of like feel good, like
making you feel good. You know, I've been rewatching Northern Exposure,
a show I loved as a kid and I love
just as much now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You could ever make the show today. It's too nice.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Ultimately, everyone's a good person. The problems are pretty anna dyne.
The small town goodness is so infectious it even infects
the hardened city kid. We'd like laugh at this kind
of show today if someone were pitching a Northern Exposure.
Which brings me to one of my favorite people, Aaron Sorkin.
(02:24):
We worked together on his show The Newsroom, but before that,
his projects like American President, West Wing.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh, they were so good. They were so good. They
were so good in terms of their writing and production.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
But they were also just good, good people doing good things.
Less Coppola More Capra, as Larry Wilmore once told me,
when it came to these projects, mister Smith was already
in Washington. I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I miss that.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I miss watching shows and movies that make you feel good.
And I suppose that's what people like about Ted Lasso.
Another show I don't want, but one that I hear
makes people feel good.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's a feel good show. Don't you think we need
more of that?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I do?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And that's what I want to talk about today with
our guests.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
She's known for roles on The West Wing, Leftovers, American Crime,
Law and Order, and lots of other things. And she's
got a substack now that I love, where she shares
her life and her thoughts.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Welcome to Off the Cup, Janelle Maloney.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm so glad you're here, even just seeing you. We
don't know each other, we haven't met, but even just
seeing you, I'm just back at a different time.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I'm back. I'm back in the West Wing.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It just feels like things are so different now, and
I want to talk about the West Wing.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
I want to talk about Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I want to talk about all kinds of things with you,
I promise, But first, are you sick of talking about
the West Wing?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's weird, It's well part of it now. It's self
inflicted because I actually am talking about it in this substack.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, but it was all I couldn't get away from it.
And there's this crazy thing now where it feels like
I'm on a hit show that I did twenty five
years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And don't get paid for well, because everywhere I go
people say, oh my god, I love you on the
West Wing. Yeah, I mean everywhere I go, multiple times
a day, and it's it's great. Everyone's so great. The
fans are great, many many, many of them were not
born when we started West Wing.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So it's an interesting thing that I feel like a
lot of actors like we're sort of the first crop
of actors that are really dealing with these shows that
are kind of on all the time, ye everywhere forever. Yeah,
and the kids. They don't care that, like, they don't
think of it as something that was done a long
(04:52):
time ago. Oh, it's like they'll watch Gilmore Girls, they'll
watch Friends, they'll watch West Wing. It's all the same
to them. Yeah, so it's a strange thing, but it's
also you know, it was sister, It was a wonderful
part of my life. But I mean I feel like
I've had fifteen lives since then.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, and you have kind of this little time capsule
that I kind of hang around my neck and carry
with me.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And and people always want to talk about and now
I'm talking about it. So I don't know. I've mixed feelings,
but generally it's all it's all positive.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
If you can't beat them, join them.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And I know exactly what you mean, because there's a
time where I thought I'd like to move on from
politics and do something different and talk about other things.
Nobody wanted me to, Nobody cared what I had to
say if it wasn't on politics, And so I joined
substack too and decided, okay, I'll just do I'll keep
doing politics. I get it. I looked at your substack.
(05:47):
I've been following your substack it's so great and everyone
should check it out.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
There's one.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Entry where you talk about meeting a fan, a young
woman named Mattie, who tells you that she was homeschooled
and only allowed to watch The West Wing and how
important your character Donna was to her, and you say
you write as crumbly white petals fell from the sky.
I thought about last night, about Maddie and all of
the other young exquisite women Donna has introduced me to,
(06:15):
the Chloe's and Jessica's, the Claire's and Kelsey's. I know
they want to be like Donna, And if I'm honest,
maybe what I want, what I really really want, is
to be like them, to be young and uncertain on
a glorious day with my whole stink in life ahead
of me. What a great I mean, it's beautiful writing,
and what a great way of summarizing or capturing your
(06:38):
relationship with these young fans. Yeah, you're watching the West
Wing now, Yeah, and you're almost envious of them.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, Well, I think we all are envious of young people.
That's just like you can't be. You can't be. I mean,
I'm in my fifties now and there's absolutely no way
you can't look at this young, beautiful girl with their
whole life ahead of you and not think like, wow,
I mean I feel I feel it's complicated because you
(07:06):
look at the at the world right now and it's confusing.
I mean, I have kids. I don't know what the
right thing is to look at and what do you
look away from, what do you ignore? And how do
you manage your mind so that you can move forward
in an optimistic way. But these young people, they're really beautiful,
(07:30):
they really are. And you know everyone's talking about there's
so much cynicism and dystopian kind of vibes around young people, yep.
And the truth is it's like, if you really look
at the actual young people in front of you, they're
all kind of amazing and their capacity for empathy and
(07:54):
understanding and trying to work together and do all of
these things that like we look at as being a snowflake.
And I'm a gen xer, so I'm like, oh, you know,
you're ridiculous, Like everything's ridiculous that they do. But if
you look at it for real, it's powerful and it
gives me a lot of hope. And so all these
young people that I meet. They yeah, they make me
feel good. But but heck, yeah, I would. I would.
(08:16):
I'd trade being twenty five for a little while. Again,
it would be nice.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
You're right, it is complicated because in so many ways
I worry about our kids, and I want to talk
to you about that in particular too. We're both boy moms.
A little later, but yeah, of course, of course you
wish you had your whole life in front of you
and didn't know, maybe didn't know some of the things
that we know would be really nice and to not
(08:41):
be sort of tainted by that, or or to be
watching west Wing for the first time. You can't do
that twice. You can only do that once. Yeah, and
that's really fun and exciting. Okay, there's more west Wing
I want to do, But first I like to start
by asking what kind of kid were you, Jane.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I was a very enthusiastic kid. I think I talked
a lot. Like I was the kid who sat at
the dinner table and kept talking while everyone else was
like doing their homework and taking showers. I was still
talking to my parents about whatever. I wanted to be
(09:19):
an actress since I was really little. Okay, but I
had a very nice, happy childhood. I have two sisters.
I have a twin sister, and we have an older brother,
and we just had a kind of soup of benign
neglect in the most wonderful eighties seventies, eighties kind of way.
(09:43):
And my parents were hairdressers, and I grew up in California,
and they were just very like Golden Bruely and atheist,
Golden Rule people, and we're just really really really good,
good good people. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Did you Were you encouraged when you realized you wanted
to be an actor?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. They would have been disappointed if I,
you know, if I didn't do it, because they were
you know, they were always those people. It's not good.
You're not supposed to raise your kids this way. But
it was like like if I had a problem with anybody,
my dad would be like, oh, that kid is just
he doesn't have what you She doesn't have what you have,
you know, screwler, Like you're better than you better. They
(10:31):
were always saying that we were better than other people,
which is like that's not you're not supposed to do that.
But but it's that kind of like irishy tribal you know,
hyping you up and not super conscious the way that
we are now, I mean, for better or worse. But
it worked. I mean I really believed in myself. So yeah, yeah,
so but yeah, they were really really encouraging. My My
(10:55):
dad came from kind of a show is adjacent fan
that I think they really wanted to be in show business.
My grandfather was a like brand burlesque shows and my
grandma was a burlesque dancer. Cool, and he grew up
in La. My dad grew up in La. So your
kid being in show business was not anything but like sure,
(11:18):
of course, Like why wouldn't you be in show business?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
So right?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And so how involved do you get as a kid?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I didn't get I really wanted to do it, but
I didn't manage to do it. I was I tried
to get an agent. I did get an agent when
I was young, but I was very tall, and you know,
back in the day, you had to be like a
munchkin to work as an as an actor. You know,
you had to be like a tiny person that looked
(11:47):
ten years younger than they were.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I was like a giant person that looked ten years
older than I was. So they were like pass I
could never work, but it was good because I didn't
need to. But I was in every play and yeah,
you know, I did all of the drama stuff, and
yeah I was. I was really into it and my
parents were delightful.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
What do you do after high school?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
After high school? I went to a very random drama
school on the East Coast called Sunny Purchase. And the
reason I went there, for all of your listeners who
don't know, there was a time before the Internet when
(12:32):
we dinosaurs just learned about things through like other people
telling you, or like random pamphlets that happened to be
in the rivalry school. Yeah, and I had an acting
teacher who was a huge, huge influence in my life.
His friend taught at this school. And I was auditioning
(12:54):
for Juilliard because Juilliard was the only school that exists.
Did yeah, because that's where all the famous people went,
and and you didn't know anything else. You just knew,
like I just knew with the famous people. I didn't
have any help. My parents didn't go to college. It
wasn't like a college kind of time for us. And
(13:18):
then yeah, he went there. I didn't get I auditioned
for Juilliard. I did not get into Juilliard, and I
got in there. I got another school, and then I
went to the one that I thought was in New York.
Turns out it's in White Plains, right, two very difficult
hours away from Yeah, and there was no there was
(13:38):
like no train. So I went to I think New
York the entire time I was there, but I didn't stay.
I dropped out and moved back to LA and waited
on tables forever.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So Suny purchase one of the state universities of New
York and a very good arts school.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Lots of friends that went there.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, but I know, I I know what you
mean back then, like if someone wasn't coming to your
high school to recruit you for school, like you didn't
know about it unless you saw it in movies and TV,
and yeah, you know, I get it. So you leave
because you are not feeling it what's going on? I didn't.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I didn't like the program, to be honest. I felt
like it was going through a transitional time. The work
that I saw I wasn't that crazy about. And I
had just met an acting teacher before I left for school,
and this was my acting teacher's name was Roy London,
(14:37):
and he was a major influence in my life. And
I just thought he was magic, and I really felt
a strong pull, and I thought, if I'm not, if
I don't really want to be a stage actress, and
I realized that it's not really what I wanted to do.
I grew up in the tradition of like Meryl Streep
and Stacy's Basic and Denver Winger and all these people,
(14:59):
and I I grew up in la and I really
liked the camera. And I even knew then I really
liked the camera, and so I went back and studied
with Roy, and I really dug in. I was like,
really really into the class, and it was kind of
my college and it was a lot of fun. It
was really.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Probably a better education than.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah. I mean, if I were to do it now,
if I could look at my young self and I
had all the resources and the parental guidance and all
of that stuff, I think I would have really enjoyed
going to a university and acting there. I think that
would have been probably a better fit for me. Yeah,
And I think I would have known my like my
history a little bit better than I do now. My
(15:45):
kids are doing this thing now where they're like, mom,
look at this math. Do you get this? I'm like, no, no, bitch,
I do not get it, Like, don't you.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Mean to me? No? No, And they're doing new math now,
and so I can't even help him do alf that
maybe I could do if I knew how they were
teaching him how to do it.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
But I don't even I can't even.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It's not for us. It's not for us.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Not for us.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Do you know? My son will be like, this is
a terrible tangent, But he just learned about nine to eleven.
And I lived nine to eleven in New York City
and I have a lot of associations with it, including
a whole stack of photographs that I took that day
in the city, which I have not opened since then.
My son is like, can we talk about nine to eleven?
(16:33):
And I know you've got some stuff And I said, yeah,
I have photographs. He goes, are they in black and white?
I go what I said? What he said, Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Was black and white back then, right. I'm like, in.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Two thousand and what your grandparents have colored photo? What
the weirdest thing i'd ever heard, I ever heard. But yeah,
I mean they yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just old.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So do you find it easy or hard to break
in once you're back in LA you're studying with Roy?
How is it breaking in?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
It's impossible, It's impossible. It's every day obsession. It's scene
work and auditions and bringing clothes in your car and
going to Studio City and then going to Burbank and
then going back to Hollywood and then going to take
(17:33):
a nap, and then going to your restaurant and calling
in on your machine and realizing you didn't get the
part and crying in the bathroom. I mean, you just
copy and paste that for ten years, and that's basically
what I did. And I worked a fair amount. I
got close enough to really important things and got wonderful
(17:55):
feedback and connections, and that I knew.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
I was.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Good and I knew I was in the right field. Ye,
But I couldn't really get anybody to give me a
significant chance. And I did. I worked a little bit, yes, right,
And I had wonderful support from wonderful casting directors, which
is something that's kind of I mean, I guess it
still exists. But you never meet the people, So how
(18:23):
much can they really love you? How much can they
feel like like, yeah, like really going like going out
of their way for you when they've never like seen
your face in person, right, they've never like hug given
you a hug or shut your hand, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I mean, so you hear a lot of well, I
hear a lot of that sort of still exists in
theater and especially on Broadway, where everything's just concentrated in
one place. You were meeting casting directors regularly seen for
other jobs, and if you have a good relationship with
a casting team for a show, they will go out
(19:02):
of their way, they'll recommend you for the next show.
But we also talked to a lot of actors, film
television actors who say the same thing, that they're auditioning
over a zoom. They don't make these relationships anymore that
can make or break a job, and.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's just it's so.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It's just such a static kind of experience.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Now, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think that the richness that
I had from just hammering at it for you know,
for ten years, that kind of made me who I am.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Don't know that kids are going to have that kind
of resilience that I think I had from that in
a certain sense of pride, like every dollar I've made,
I've made myself. Every job I got was because I
did the work and sacrificed and whatever. And obviously there's
luck involved, of course, but yeah, but I worked really hard.
(20:00):
I really did, and I worked too hard. I wish
I had spent more time having fun and being young
and going out, but I, you know, I was really
serious and yeah, and I took it really seriously, and
you know, and it paid off. I mean, when I
met Aaron and Tommy, it was kind of a culmination
of several different relationships the casting director, the producer John
(20:25):
Tommy and Aaron, who I had worked for briefly on
Sports Night, Right, all of these things coming together that
after many many years, and then everybody kind of trusted
me because they had known me in all these different
different ways. And it wasn't a very big part either,
So it wasn't like Allison's part or Brad's part, where
(20:46):
you know, I didn't test, I didn't do anything. I
just I just auditioned for them.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So oh okay, well, yeah, I was going to ask
that because I know, you know, you get, you get
some TV movies, you get a murder she wrote an er,
and then you get an episode of Sports Night. Uh,
one of Aaron's shows before The West Wing. I love
that show too.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
How did that?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
How did that come to you? And then how did
the West Wing come to you?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Well? Actually, it's funny. I don't really I don't know
that I've ever even really told a story before publicly.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That was the best words.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I've never told this story before. Fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Go no, I think so someone might say, oh, no,
she's We've heard it twelve times. I like I have
like other mother brain.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I had a roommate, Bonnie Zane, who is still
my friend and wonderful and okay, she was the casting
director of She did a lot of TV shows, a
lot of really good comedies, and I was like busting
my ass in the restaurant. I was a hostess in
(21:49):
a restaurant at the time, and she never brought me
in on anything, and I was always like, dude, I've
lived with you for like three years. We went through
that giant an earthquake together, you know, like like I thought,
I meant something, Wow, we are bonded, Like why have
you never brought me in on anything. And she literally
(22:09):
like never brought me in and I never could understand it.
And I thought, okay, that's just her thing. Fine if Annie,
if you're listening, I love you. And then I swear
to you. The day before she moved out, she said, oh,
I have an audition for you. It's this thing I'm
doing called Sports Night, and I think she left me
(22:31):
the sides, and I had the audition the next morning.
I didn't know it was Aaron Sorkin that wrote it, okay,
because it was so fast. I just got the sides.
I didn't get the script. I didn't do anything. Yeah,
And there was this big, beautifully written kind of speech
and I thought, this isn't funny. This isn't funny. I
(22:52):
don't get this. This isn't funny. And then I kept
trying to find jokes in it, and I was like,
I can't find a joke. So then I worked on
a and I said, you know, and I'm just going
to do it straight because I don't think this is
a joke. I don't get it, but I'm just going
to do it straight. Yeah, And then I did that,
and so it was Bonnie was the one who who
introduced me to Aaron and Tommy, and then I went
(23:13):
in and there's Aaron Sorkin and I was like, holy shit.
I had no idea that it was going to be
Aaron and Tommy Shlammy. And it was so exciting back
in the day because you'd go in and it's like
you'd walk in and it's like, oh, Steven Spielberg's here
or oh, you know wherever it, and you really it
really felt like you were moving forward, even if you
(23:34):
weren't getting the jobs. It was like you were in
the room with people and now you have no kids,
they have no idea where their tapes go, who sees
them what, It's just like it's like going into the void.
But then I I and this Tommy have has said,
which Tommy cried, Tommy Shlammy cried when I did my
(23:56):
my am oh my thing, and it was like it
was just very naive. The whole thing was very naive
and very sweet and yeah, and then yeah, I got
that and it was a week of work and it
was lovely. And then a while passed and then I
got the audition for Donna and it was a everyone
knows this. I auditioned for CJ first, and then I
(24:18):
didn't get that. And then they called me and said,
you want to audition for this other part and it's
not a regular it's a small part. And I said okay,
and and then I did and I got it.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Were you worried about the dialogue? No, never, Most actors
fear Aaron's dialogue because it's great, it's quick, it's long.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
You know. The thing about it is that it's just
really really beautiful. The emotional thread and the connection in
the scene is a very usually quite meaningful, beautiful connection.
And if you don't worry about the words, you have
to make it about the scene and what's going on
(25:06):
in the scene. And then the words just happened. I
don't think any of us ever thought, oh, we just
have to do this really fast. And people would always
audition and call me and say, I'm auditioning for your show.
Should I just like, I just feel really nervous. Should
I just do it really fast?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And I'm like, no, just be good, don't do it
really fast just because yea, and make it real. And
I mean Richard Schiff wasn't fast, you know what I mean?
He was he was Richard Schiff yeaes Toby.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, we interviewed Bradley Whitford last season and he talked
about how hard that show was to do the schedule.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
In the hours, and how hard it was on Aaron too.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, also how much he loved it obviously, but just
that it was demanding, rigorous.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Yeah, is that how you felt as well?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
No, I thought it was awesome. I loved every minute,
but also I didn't so for them. Yes, Aaron, I
don't know how he did it. He tortured himself. He
probably could have written less, that's what he said. Yeah,
And Brad was kind of the lead, and so they
(26:14):
had a lot to do all the time. I always
wanted more. I couldn't get enough because I was like
a kid in the candy shop and I had a
wonderful role, but you know, sometimes I'd have like a
couple of little scenes and I would be like, and
then I'd have something a lot, and it was just
I was just always, you know, most actors just want more.
And Brad, I remember Brad, he said, I mean, this
(26:40):
is one of those I don't know. Well, I'll tell
you this. So Brad we had he had a season
I can't remember which season it was, but it was
like he was hammered. He had so much stuff to do.
He was he was in everything for like weeks and
weeks and weeks, and I think that and he was
complaining and he was like falling apart. But you know,
(27:02):
always great, always Brad doing a great job. Totally a pro.
But you could tell it was really it was really
a lot of work. And he had young kids. And
then they came to him and said, I I remember
them coming to him and saying, we're gonna we're going
to write you less like we've got a whole storyline.
We're going to write you. And I'm pretty sure he's like, no, no,
(27:25):
don't no, no, I'm good, don't do that.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Never mind.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
That kind of says it all about actors right there. Yes, yeah,
they all want to be the star of the show.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So you're filming the seventh season when John Spencer unexpectedly
dies and I know that was a huge blow to
the cast and crew. What did it What did that
feel like when you found that out?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
You know, I think it was just like the ending
of the show in a way. We just kind of
all felt like, oh okay, well, time to go home,
you know, time to go home. And Brad, I remember,
Brad was the one that told me. He called me
and and told me, and I was in the car
(28:26):
and and and then we all, you know, we all
got together that night, as I remember, and and we
just really treasured him, and and I think all of
us individually treasured him. And it felt like it was
just the beginning of the winding down of the show.
(28:47):
And I think it was we were kind of moving
toward that direction anyway. I think they always envisioned it
being about that many seasons, so so yeah, it was.
It was. It was good. It was time to time
to wind it wind it up.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Were you worried at all about what's next for you?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Sure? Yeah, I still am. I'm just still like, what's
going to happen after the West Wing? Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Years laturns. After the West Wing, I'd have to talk
about we have to talk about Amber Fry because I
walked one witness for the real plos cute.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
It was so good, Janelle, No, you were so good.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
How did that role come to you?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
How did it come to me? They asked me to
do it? And and Mary McCormick talked me into it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
What how did Mary McCormick talk you into it?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Because I didn't think I should do it. It seemed
cheesy and I didn't want to do it, and I
was nervous because West Wing is so so yeah, and
I thought, oh, this cheesy. And it was kind of
the beginning of like the whole It wasn't quite weren't
we weren't into social media yet, but it was kind
(30:10):
of the beginning of like this sort of moment where
all of the country would focus on one kind of
sortid story. And we had gone through Bill and all
that stuff, and I think it was just kind of
sorted and really really huge. And she had this gigantic
(30:31):
book that sold like eight gazillion copies, and I think
that it seemed like if a gazillion people watched the show,
it would have been really good for me. And that
was the strategy, really, And yeah, and the pay was good.
I wasn't getting like a ton of other offers, and
(30:52):
it seemed like a risky but a good thing to do.
And yeah, it was fine. It wasn't one of my
great memories as an actress, but I can, for some
weird reason, Aaron Sorkin loves this, loves that. That movie.
Why he always talks about it with me when when
(31:13):
I see him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I gotta tell you a lot of people watched it.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I remember watching it. It was really good.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
But I wondered, I don't know this, did you Did
you work with Amber? Was she involved in this project?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I talked to her on the phone, but no, I
never I never worked with her.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, do you know was she happy with the depiction?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I don't know. I really don't know. I just talked
to her when we Yeah, I talked her the beginning,
and then that was it.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I mean, we were just all really captivated by that case.
And I know what you mean, like, yeah, we got
really we got really into it. There's just there's a
lot of people today who don't believe that Scott Peterson
did that, which.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Is yeah, fascinating. Yeah, Aaron, Actually the last time I
saw him, I hadn't seen him in a really long time,
and like the first thing he asked me when I
saw him was if I thought Scott Peterson did it?
And I'm like, what are you talking about, Aaron? I mean,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Maybe we're going to get an Aaron Sorkin Scott Peterson movie.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah. Maybe maybe because he's.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
So interested in it. Oh, I'll have to ask him
about it. That's great. What TV do you watch today?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I watched, well, I watched this thing that I'm gonna
have to google while I'm talking to you. It's this
Jacob Elod thing, this Australian thing, Jacob aldilt Elo d elo.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
D isn't it it's a lordie but they're fine, Okay,
it's a LORDI yep.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That was really beautiful. It's about World War two and
Australians that were kept as prisoners of war in Japan.
And it was just very beautiful, very very very good.
It's called The.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Narrow Road to the Deep North. I got it.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
I got it, and I highly recommend. Okay one season
twenty twenty five. I see, Yeah, it's very good. It's
very beautiful. It's kind of it's very very beautiful. And
I'm watching a lot of Dexter because my thirteen year
old son, it's really watching Dexter, which is kind of disturbing,
but he really likes it. We're not very I don't know,
(33:31):
there's We've watched a lot of things that are not
that appropriate in my house.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, we really have. I don't know what happened. I
have two boys, and my husband is a film composer,
and he loves movies, and we all love movies, and
and and I think if it's a good movie, I think.
My husband sometimes will be like, yeah, we watched so
and so, and I'll be like, why did you watch that?
But sometimes I'll suggest something like from the eighties, you know,
(33:59):
when you do that and you're like, oh, let's watch
pretty in pink or something, and then it's like there's
a date rape and there's a you know whatever, like
all this crazy stuff that we thought was okay back then. Totally,
there's all these moments that you regret.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You live in Brooklyn, right you're raising your family in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
I left the city before I.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Had my son, and I always wonder how different he
would be if I had stayed in the city because
I lived in the city for a long time. Do
you ever think about that, like who your kids would
be if if they'd grown up like in the suburbs
or like at a farm.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Not really, although you know, I wonder sometimes if they
would have just been outside more. But my friends who
live in the suburbs. They're all their kids wanted, especially boys.
They all want to do the same thing, which is
they all want to stay inside and play video games
(35:10):
and watch YouTube. And I'm not sure that we're it's
a location thing anymore, you know. In Yeah, But and
at the same time, my kids like take the subway
by themselves and talk to strangers on the street and
navigate a lot of interesting things that I don't think
(35:33):
other people have to navigate growing up in a in
a in the suburbs. Yes, and they're exposed to a
lot of a lot of really cool things too, a
lot of art and a lot of but mostly just
the street life is what makes it so unique. And
now they're fifteen and thirteen, and I've kind of stopped
worrying about who they would become and would it be
(35:57):
better in a different place, you know, we're like big
grass is always greener people over here. So I think
that that's settled down a lot over the past year,
just because when you have a kid that's in tenth
grade and and you know there you are where you're
going to stay there until they graduate, So.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Right, yeah, for sure, but for sure, Yeah, But.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I think it's an exciting place to grow up in
Brooklyn is really it's very sweet where we live.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
So yeah, yeah, I think about, you know, the environments
we raise our kid, our kids in and think about
it all the time. Because my kid, we live in
the suburbs. We have to expose him to things if
we want him to be exposed, because he just wouldn't
be here. And yeah, that's what we do. You know,
(36:47):
we're in the city. I work in the city. He's
in the city a lot, but we travel a lot.
But he's really I don't know if it's because of
this or it is just who he is, but you know,
he's very afraid of change. And he's experienced, you know,
like no change, like not even a little change.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Right, He's grown up in this house, this town, this school.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Everything stayed the same to parents, same grandparents. Nothing's happened
to this kid in his life. Meanwhile, my childhood was
defined by change. I had marked a thousand times. My
parents got divorced, then remarried. I was always the new kid.
It was incredibly unstable. I had great parents, but it
was an unstable childhood compared to his. Okay, and I
(37:35):
got I think about, like, what is he's so afraid
of in terms of change, and maybe in his mind
he's experienced change and I'm just not aware of it.
So I asked him one day. I was like, Jack,
you know, I know you really don't like change, Like
he never wants us to move from this house. So
I was like, so, Jack, what's been the biggest change
you think you've ever experienced?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
And he said so when we got the new couch.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
But yeah, okay, yeah, we're very different, right, And so.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Does he talk like does he talk about it? Like?
How do you know he's afraid of change?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Because if you haven't done any change exactly? He says
it all the time. Jack, wouldn't it be fun to
even changes we think would be an upgrade? Absolutely? Not?
Like we have a dog. He loves the dog. The
dog's wonderful. Jack, What if we got a new dog.
I don't want a new dog. We have we have
a dog. A new dog would be change, But you'd
(38:34):
love a new dog? No, no, no, no, I'm good
with exactly how things are right now.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Right, which you want to be like, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We have obviously created a world for him, a life
for him that he loves. But at the same time,
I just think, wow, I was raised in change, it
got very resilient and adapting to it. He's been raised
in no change.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Now really fears it.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And you just wonder like, Okay, maybe this sheltered bubble
of a life that we thought was going to be
going to be great and sort of inoculate him from
my kind of childhood. Maybe it's having an oddly adverse
effect of making him scared of everything else, which or
I think he just want to see everything else, or.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
He's just that's his personality. Maybe he's a little rigid
and and that's just who he is. And if you
had a whole bunch of kids, you'd be like, oh,
well that's my little bit more rigid kid. And then
that the other there's the other one's the wild one,
and that's the you know, it's it's hard when.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
You have maybe it's just handed.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, you have just the one, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I have just the one, so I have no comparison.
I can't do experiments.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's just like it's.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Just it's just maybe he's just got like a little
old man soul and he just wants to kind of
keep things the way they are, and you know, what
that they thing is that things will happen and he
will have to change and he will have to take
on new things because that's life. So if he's what
like eight or nine years what is he like nine
(40:12):
years old or ten? Yeah, yeah, he'll get plenty of
change and oh yeah, because that's life, you know, and
the world he's going to grow up in. Oh my god,
God help him not being okay with change. He's going
to have out twenty five professions before the time he's thirty,
and like true, like who knows, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I think about that too, Like I don't even and
I hear this from a lot of parent friends that
I have, Like I don't even know how to prepare
our kids for today, Yeah, because we don't grow up
with the stuff that they have to deal with I
know today, And it feels very unsettling.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah. I think I write a lot about this. And
the sub stack is that is that like the balance
between having ideals and having like optimism and and then
balancing it with reality and the past. Because the past
was very idealistic. Now it feels very really dystopian. But
(41:10):
I can tell you from my own kids, they're they're
they're quite optimistic, and I find it really stunning. You know,
we were talking. I know, we don't talk about politics,
but we were taught. They were talking about Zorn and
and you know, it's a big subject in our house
because it's it's the mayor. And and my son is
(41:34):
very My fifteen year old is like, listen, I don't
know that he has the goods to take care of
such a complicated city, but let's give him a shot.
He's so optimistic, and I'm going to be optimistic, and
I'm going to be and he was like just so sweet,
(41:54):
and and I think that that you know, they are born,
and they're into the world that they're born into. We
all are, and you know, we can't control that for
them anymore than your parents could could control it for us.
And they're going to have to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
You know, I'm writing about conspiracy theories right now and
how young boys especially are susceptible to them, and it
makes me very worried.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
We were somewhere recently and the ten year old boys,
not my son because he's not interested in any of this,
but his little group start talking about Charlie Kirk and
I was like, hey, you're too young to even know
who that is. And I don't know why this person's
you know, in your brain. But I I worry about
some things with our boys. Oh yeah, particular especially with
(42:48):
YouTube and oh yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
A scourge stuff. Yeah, it really is. And I don't know.
I mean, I I think that if I were to
say thing that scares me the most as a parent, it's,
you know, aside from something terrible happening to my kids,
not gonna work, that's never gonna happen, but just this
that their mind is just going to be completely stolen,
(43:13):
you know, yes, And that's what we're telling me about that.
But then I also see them growing, okay, and see
them like my thirteen year old has a very different
way of processing things than my fifteen year old, And
my fifteen year old is getting more mature, and his
mind is getting more mature, and you can see his
(43:34):
own thoughts and his own opinions and trusting his own
like knowing what sources to trust and what not to trust.
And and they're like being raised by the internet. I
don't know who the hell they're looking at and what
they're I mean, none of us do. So I think
The best thing that we've done, my husband and I
is to really talk about it in a super open
(43:57):
way about all of it. And and if they say,
you know, they'll start talking about stuff that I'm like,
that sounds like internet talk there, that sounds like YouTube talk.
And I don't challenge them like where did you get
that from, because it's it's it's like we'll make them
feel defensive, like they're, hey, I'm in the world. I'm
(44:17):
I can pay attention to things. But you have to
kind of reflect back to them constantly what they're talking about.
And and some of it is not correct, you know.
But hopefully if they go to a good school and
they have people talking to them about digital, you know, literacy,
(44:38):
they'll but but some of it they just they just
can't help. I see the kids becoming very cynical about
a lot of the progressive ideas. Not not necessarily my boys,
but I feel like I noticed this in Brooklyn, like
that there's a lot of kids that are kind of
(44:58):
pushing back, which disturbs me because I feel like that
it's gonna end up making kids more interested in going
towards that manisphere sort of place.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, same, and yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Again I've decided to look at all the boys that
I know instead of all the boys I don't know,
and look at the boys that I have instead of
the ones I fear that I will help, because you know,
the boys are like the boys in my life and
my friend's boys. They're all really smart and really great
and and have girlfriends and are not living in their
(45:35):
basements and are or boyfriends and you know, and are
just like living their their their lives and they're they're
weirdly optimistic, which I God bless them, as we know.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I know, but like that's incourreaged. No, that's really encouraging
to hear, because as you know, you know, my son's
a couple of years behind yours. But I'm very fearful,
and I'm in this business too, so I can over
index sometimes how you know, pervasive it is, because for me,
it just feels like it's everywhere. You're right, like, I know,
(46:06):
plenty of boys in kids school in town and they're
doing great and.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, yeah, and you'll see when you get a little
bit older, you'll see look at all your friends that
whose boys are going to college and having great time,
and the boys that are like taking you know, going
to study music, and so and so and doing this lives,
living their lives. And I think one of the things
that's really bad right now in the way that our
(46:31):
media is kind of set up is that everything's kind
of an emergency. So right now, it's like, if your
algorithm is about boys, all you hear about is like boys, boys, boys,
boys are not doing okay. The boys are not all right.
And so as a boy mom, you're like, oh my god,
(46:52):
how do I control that? But it's it's probably not
any I mean, you know, everything has a tendency to
show itself to you in your in your phone and
in your in the algorithm, and just like the trend
of of what people are worried about, we cycle through
them and and I don't know, I think you have to.
(47:13):
I hear you talking a lot about this on your
podcast about just like protecting yourself from from these elements.
It's a lot to try to manage, you.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Know, it really is, and it can yeah, and it
can be a feedback loop. It doesn't actually help you
see things, clearly, No, I.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Don't think it does. Yeah, it's how you have to
kind of pick and choose how you how you you know,
consume the news, totally.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Don't go anywhere more. Off the cup with Janelle Maloney
after the break. Okay, let's do a lightning round before
or I let you go. Okay in a West Wing freeboot.
(48:10):
Where's Donna today? What's she up to?
Speaker 1 (48:13):
I mean, listen, I would pitch for Donna to be president. Sorry, yes,
we need a female president. And why not Donna? You
didn't know, You don't know what she She was kind
of the youngest. You don't know what she did in
all those years she was on and upward trajectory. She's
got her kids in college and she's she's maybe she's
(48:36):
the president, right, So okay, I'll do that. I love
I was gonna go a little lower and I'm like,
why Donna's the president?
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
What's your favorite of your husband's compositions.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Oh that's so nice. I love well. Okay, So this
one that's out now is K pop Demon Hunters.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yes, and he has obsessed with that.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
And everyone's kind of obsessed with that, and I love
it just because the actual music is incredible. I mean,
the songs are incredible that the day wrote he didn't
write the songs, of course, he does he does the
score score right, But the score is exquisite, but only
mostly because it was such a fun surprise that we
just can't believe it. It was like this kind of
(49:32):
random thing that he did, and it's this gigantic, huge, huge,
crazy phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
I'm sure you well, I don't want to make assumptions,
but those songs are in my head all day. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Oh, your son likes it.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
Oh, he's it all day.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Cute, cute, really cute, and they're great songs. I'm not mad.
There are times when I'm like annoyed by those songs
he gets obsessed with. These are not annoying. They're wonderful
and it's a great score. It's a great movie. You
can listen to.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Only one album for the rest of your life?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
One album for the rest of my life? Abbey Road?
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Oh my god, that's mine too.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (50:16):
Feel like it's the only correct one.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah yeah, I mean, what else are you gonna do?
Speaker 2 (50:21):
What else are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Exactly right, Yeah, exactly right. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Or I might listen to James Taylor's greatest hits.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Well, that's great because it would just be.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So soothing or I might listen to Court and Spark.
I love Jon, but you didn't ask me three different things.
That's not fair.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
I like all of those answers. I'm sticking with the Beatles.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
You have to go kind of classic and old school.
You know, you can't be like, yeah, I'm not going
to listen to Tyler the Creator, you.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Like take Cray. It's got to be someone who has
withstood the test of time.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, I let your parents listen to Like, it has
to be something.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, okreat what's your favorite meal?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well? I really like this thing that I actually wrote
about in a sub stect called pica gio, which is
like a Brazilian meal that's me And it's like stewed
meat and with rice and beans and it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yep yep. What's something you want to do more of?
Speaker 4 (51:28):
Right?
Speaker 1 (51:29):
And cook?
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (51:32):
What's been your worst vacation?
Speaker 1 (51:36):
My worst vacation, I don't know what's coming to mind
is when I was with my parents to Santa Barbara.
It was one of two vacations that we took. I
only have had seven days of vacation in my entire
life as a child, which when my kids complain about
(51:57):
going places, I'm like, you know, I have actively seven
seven days of vacation growing up, so stop complaining. I
went to Santa Barbara and I was sick the whole time,
and I threw up in the garbage. Can I just.
Speaker 3 (52:12):
Remember not fun?
Speaker 2 (52:13):
No, that'll ruin it. Yep, that'll do it. Okay.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
I'm sure there's a more dramatic thing as an adult,
but I can't. I probably blocked it out.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sure, Sure, besides something related to your career. What's something
you're secretly so good at that you could teach a
class on it?
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Well, I really think I could do an excellent cookie
making class. Like really, my mom was an incredible baker
and I have kind of mad cookie making skills.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
From excellent, Yeah, great, what's your what's your best cookie?
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Well, there's this cookie that actually Martin Sheen really liked
and it's like a it's almost like a rogue law
but it's flat and it's like this pinwheel that you
caught and it's got jam on the inside and it's
just really good.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
That sounds good. That sounds amazing. Mom groups yay or nay.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yay and or no, you're sure, I don't. I'm not
in any but I'm not against them. I would like
to be in a book club, but I can't get
anyone to do it.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
So what are you a fan of mom? You're not
in any But what makes you a fan?
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Well, because it's fun to hang out with people and
and is that what you mean, like, don't you hang
out with moms? I don't know. I've never been in one.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Me neither, but me neither.
Speaker 1 (53:38):
But yeah, sure I love a group. Yeah, I'm pro
I actively.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Yeah, it's this whole idea that like we we're all
friends because our kids are in school together or or
yeah whatever. And I've eschewed mom groups because I just
don't want added pressure for me, but I can I
can also see the benefit of them for lots of women.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah. Also I think that you know, you work, and
you like work, work, work, and you're out of your
house all the time and you're super busy. There's a
lot of moms said that, don't that like need the
community and that's kind of how they connect, you know.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, yes, is it hard to make mom friends being
a famous person?
Speaker 1 (54:26):
I don't, I mean no, I mean, I don't know.
I have a lot of friends that are moms that
I've made and and I don't know that it was hard.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Now there's some people that I think we wanted to
be friends with me because they were Donna Moss fans
a couple.
Speaker 2 (54:42):
That's what I mean. Yeah, but you can tell that right.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
No, but I'm really good friends with them now because
they are super nice, and I don't blame them because
the show is good and it was just like an
It's just like the beginning of the friendship and then yes,
you end up.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I have a friend who I really like, and one time,
deep in our friendship, like a year, and she called
me Donna. I thought she was gonna die. I thought
she was gonna die. She was so embarrassed. But it
didn't bother me at all.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, okay, our boys are obsessed with memes and slang.
What meme or slang is annoying you the most? Right now?
Speaker 1 (55:27):
There's so many that I don't even know if I can.
What's you go first?
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Six seven six seven?
Speaker 1 (55:33):
I haven't heard that. No, I haven't heard that lucky,
I haven't heard that.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
I'd be too young for your boys.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
But it's no.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
One that I like is probably bad. I didn't even
know what it means, but they'll just say, oh, that's lit.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Yeah, lit. Yeah, it is good. That is good.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, and that's cute. I like that. But I try
to lay some eighties stuff on them and they're like,
that is so stupid.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
You know. Okay, guys, no, you sound really cool with skibbity. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
I say like, oh, you're so stuck up, and they're like,
what is stuck up? I said stuck up as like
classic or you're so moded? Did you do moded? I
thought that maybe that was regional, like a California thing,
but I know my sisters remember that, my sisters and
I will still say oh, you're so moded, and people
(56:23):
will be like, what are you saying? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (56:26):
So good.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I should bring back some slang yeah for him as well.
That's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (56:30):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
The last question is very important to me. We ask
it every time. When is iced coffee season.
Speaker 1 (56:39):
I am not a huge ice coffee person, okay, but
when I do drink it, it's it is in the summer. Yeah, okay,
But I can tell you because I live around the shop,
from around the corner from an extremely popular cafe with
(56:59):
iced coffee that everyone loves. The young people it's always
iced coffee season.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
That makes me feel young because it's always iced coffee season.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, it's a generational thing. The young people. They don't
believe in hunt coffee.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
Well, maybe that's true.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I'm not young enough. In fact, I've talked about this
on the show where I'm you know, I'm in perimenopause
and i had to switch to decaf because the caffeine
was no longer working for me. And I've just been
an iced coffee drinker since i was very, very very young. Yeah,
but I love it. Good.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Good to know I'm a hip with the kids though.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, I think the kids are really into it.
Speaker 3 (57:37):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Well, Janelle, this was so lovely and it was really
great to meet you and great to talk to you
and go back to the West Wing and talk about
our kids. It was really nice. Thanks for joining me.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yeah, I know it's fun definitely.
Speaker 2 (57:52):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land pod. For Off the Cup, I
am your host, Se Cup. Editing and sound design by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman rate and review Wherever you get your podcasts,
(58:15):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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