October 2, 2024 • 58 mins
S.E. Cupp could think of no better person to have as her first guest on her podcast than her pal, the actor, Josh Gad. And Josh Gad delivers! The “Frozen” and “Book of Mormon” star talks openly about his childhood, how he dealt with rejection, what his mom told him when he almost left acting, and about his first big break. He also shares some of his darker moments and his own mental health journey. The whole conversation ends with a very fun lightning round involving a surprising quiz.
Josh Gad’s new children’s book, “PictureFace Lizzy” is out now. His memoir, “In Gad We Trust: A Tell-Some,” will be out in January 2025.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Off the Cup. I'mssy Cup and this is
our mental health break from the news. You know, I've
covered politics and news for twenty plus years. You may
know me from CNN or MSNBC or Battleground. Maybe you
read or hate read my columns. I've covered everything from
(00:24):
elections this is my sixth presidential to war and genocide,
to sports and pop culture. But this podcast, Off the
Cup is a break from the news. Here is where
I'm going to interview interesting people, many of whom are
my friends, about their actual lives. You remember your life,
you know, family, career, parenting, travel, love, loss, mental health,
(00:48):
the stuff that matters to you when we're not talking
about politics. That's what we're going to do. And lastly,
if you follow me, you know I've struggled with an
anxiety disorder and I want to talk a lot more
about and about mental health because when we do, we
take it out of the shadows and end the stigma.
(01:08):
So when I got this podcast, the first person, the
first person I knew I wanted to interview. It wasn't
a journalist, it wasn't a politico. It was Josh Gadd
And you may say, why, well, he is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
These days, saying why by the way, but going.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You may know him as Olof from Frozen, or Elder
Arnold Cunningham from the Book of Mormon, or the Wedding Ringer.
I just saw him on Broadway in Gutenberg the Musical.
He can sing, he can act, he can sort of dance,
and more importantly, he's just a wonderful human being. Welcome
to off the Cup, Josh gadd.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I am so delighted. I'm so delighted. I'm so perplexed
that you would be so kind and crazy as to
make me your first guest. You know a lot of
people don't know this. We're birthday twins, and so I've
always loved you primarily for that reason, same for others
(02:09):
as well. And I'm so proud of you. I'm so
excited to be here. I'm so excited that you have
this platform, and I am just like hoping that I
don't destroy the platform in its earliest stages.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Don't fuck it up.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I'm going to try not to.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Do you want to tell people how we first got
in touch. We have not discussed this, so you can
say yes or no. Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Of course I remember? But I want you to tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, I'll tell So it's February twenty eighteen and I
get a voicemail from Josh Gatt. We did not know
each other.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, ready, hey there, it's Josh Gatt calling Hope all
as well, trying me back whenever your freemare numbers. Wait
a second, I called you. I blind called you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, do you know why?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So I'm on set doing my show as he Cup
Unfiltered at CNN and I see you. I see my
phone light up, and I can't answer it. I'm like,
Josh Gadd, that can't be like the Josh Gadd, like
the Josh Gadd because I knew who you were, but
we had never spoken. So I finished the show and
then I get in the car to go home. And
I ride home always with my producer friend because we
(03:27):
live in the same town, and we always in the
back of the car, which is driven by a professional.
We open a bottle of wine. This is what we
did every Friday night.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Got I want to work at CNN.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we're in the back of the car and I'm like,
I have to play this. This is this sounds like him.
So I called you back in the car okay, and
you said, I'm a fan, and I just think you're
really smart, and I want to get educated on the
issue of gun control.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I remember this. I remember this, and that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I don't know that we agree. I think we might
be on different sides, but the way you talk about
it is it's important. And I want to know more
because I want to get educated and I want to
talk more, you know, intelligently about an issue I care
a lot about. And I I had just I had
just left the nr A, I had just sort of
found religion on guns a bit, coming from a Second
(04:18):
Amendment side to someone who really wanted to talk differently,
finally about about that issue. And so I was so
embracing of this outreach. But I can count Josh on
one finger the number of people, public people, celebrities, whomever,
who have called to say I want to know more
(04:38):
about an issue. Can we talk about it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's depressing, it is, but that's so such a.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Testament to who you are. I'm not telling this story
to flatter myself. I'm telling this because I think it
says so much about who you are. You're curious, you
want to know stuff, you want to speak from facts,
you're passionate, you care about your family and your kids.
You cared enough to call a ranger to say, tell
me the arguments that I should avoid or the things
(05:05):
that I should say that aren't working. Yep, I mean
it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I so appreciate that. I have always been a very
curious person. I would say until November of twenty sixteen,
I wasn't a judgmental person when it came to political I.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Think I know what happened around that time.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
You know, when it came to political beliefs, because I
you know, I grew up in a household where my
brother was independent, leaning more I think to the right.
I've always seen myself as moderate up until a certain
breaking point. And I really believe that a healthy two
party system is not only important, but essential for the
(05:52):
survival of the country. My favorite president of all time
is Theodore Roosevelt, who happens to be a Republican. And
I really believe that people need to do outreach, they
need to hear what other people are thinking, and sometimes
the lack of that creates more divisiveness where there really
(06:17):
isn't that divisiveness at the dinner table.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's a perception of divisiveness.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's a perception of divisiveness.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, it's a perception that we're on the opposite ends.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One hundred percent. And I am old enough to remember
a time where that outreach existed and not only existed,
but was really an essential part of friendships, of family,
dynamics of all of it. And I really long for that.
(06:49):
I really miss that. I really pray we can get
back there again. I think it's healthy for the survival
of democracy. And unfortunately I just think that, and I
say this often, but I think politics and society written
large have turned into a team sport, a gladiator like sport. Yeah,
(07:14):
and I don't love that, you know, because even at
the end of a football game, I reach out to
my Bills fans playing my Dolphins, and I say congratulations
on the win or I'm sorry for the loss. And
I think we got to get back there at a
certain point.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well, you're doing you're doing the work, you're leading by example,
and I appreciate that you mentioned the Dolphins. You grew
up in Florida and you told me just before we
got on here you left because of the mosquitoes, and
only the mosquitoes that can't be true, No, I what
did they do to you?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I left because of the humidity and the mosquitoes. I
was saying this because we have frighteningly gotten an influx
of mosquitos in Los Angeles, and now I have a
People can't say this, but I have a fly squatter
on me at all times that I'm sitting outside.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, they're not supposed to be there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
They're not supposed to be here. California needs to put
up a wall to protect ourselves from these insects. But
I love growing up in Florida. I actually have incredible memories.
All my family is still in Florida, so I have
a brother in Fort Lauderdale, a brother in Tampa, and
(08:26):
my parents are in West Palm and I try to
go back once a year. And if it weren't for
again the unflinching humidity and heat, I would probably live
there at least part time, because it's you know, it's
where I'm from.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We call that. I call that that kind of humidity
that it's squatchy. It feels squatchy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It is. I can't do like ae hundred degree heat,
like with wetness.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I can do hundreds heat.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I can do Phoenix yeah, I can do Vegas, but
when it comes to like giving me sweat on top
of heat, that's when I check out.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yes too much. So I think a lot of people
know you for your work on stage and fun fact,
you don't read music. Yet You've done a ton of musicals.
I've seen a number of them. You're so good in them.
Did you grow up watching musicals? You seem very natural?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, So this is really funny because I just literally
my daughter just passed level three of her sight reading
exams for her music class, and I looked at her
with such jealousy in my soul days like, can you
teach me? One day to my thirteen year old, can
you teach me how to read music? She's like, you're
(09:47):
a forty three year old man who's done two and
you don't know how to read music. I'm like, no
nobody ever taught me. It's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So well, it hasn't stopped you, It hasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Stopped me, although it did along the way. So I'll
give you kind of the brief history of this. My
parents got divorced when I was six. I have a
book coming out in January called and Gad We Trust
that discusses all of the syd nauseum, so I won't
put me these tears now. But I sort of weaponized
comedy early on to try to get my mom to
(10:22):
not be sad about the fact that her entire life
as she knew it was shattered.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, and that's a lot of pressure for a six
year old.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It's a lot of pressure. It's also a very cliche
way for someone to find their way into entertainment. But
that was sort of like the first payment to it.
And I remember my mom taking me to see Kathy
Rigby on tour doing Peter Pan in South Florida.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Randy, look my shadow, my very own shadow. It's only
a shadow.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And I was taken to another world. I was like,
it was this arresting moment. Shortly thereafter, I saw my
first Broadway show, which was Topal in Fiddler on the
Roof Iconic, and again I was like, God, I want
(11:14):
to do this thing. Then sort of the final piece
of this puzzle was I was sitting in a movie
theater and I was watching a movie in nineteen ninety
two called a Latin and I saw Robin Williams playing
the Genie singing you ain't never had a friend like me,
(11:36):
and I turned to my mom and I said, I'm
going to do that one day, and that was sort
of the trajectory of the journey. I then graduate from
high school. I applied to Carnegie mellon drama and I
applied to be in the musical theater program and they
say to me, kid, you got great acting chops, the
musical thing is not going to work out. So my
(11:58):
classmates as I was on the acting trajectory of the program,
my classmates were Roy O'Malley who would co star in
Book of Mormon with me, Leslie Odom Junior, Tony Award
winner from Hamilton, oh.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Just Leslie Odom Junior, and a little.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Singer named Josh Grovin. Those were literally three of the
nine people in the musical theater program in my class,
so it was a really talented class. So I don't
hold a grudge, but it is really funny to me
that I was just not good enough to get into
the musical and I've made half my living on musicals.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But sometimes that's exactly what you need to hear. I
did a program at the college I would eventually go
to over the summer because I really wanted to go there,
and at the end of it, the dean was like,
you know, this school's not for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I was like, oh no, And then I ended up
I like determined to get in, and I did. But
sometimes you just need to hear.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That oh same. By the way, I say this all
the time, I got rejected. So my top two choices
were Northwestern and Juilliard, And about two years ago I
shared my rejection letter online with people from Juilliard. And
I think that that to your point, I think it
(13:22):
really does drive you. Yeah, And I think there's a
part of all of us that wants to prove the
naysayers wrong, and so it's important to have naysayers. It's
a healthy part of your trajectory and a healthy part
of your journey to be told I don't believe you
have it in you, because it forces you to find
it in yourself and.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Believe in yourself completely.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah. Also, I was one of nine people to apply
from my class to Northwestern, and out of the nine,
I was the only person to get a real real bummer.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So what do you think was your big break? I
know you talk about that in the new book, But
what do you think was your big big break.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So, I mean, I I was out of college for
about three years. I was not getting work. I had
done an episode of TV. I was a doctor on
er and I was trying to resuscitate somebody and using
the CPR device, and you know all of these shows
(14:41):
have an on set advisor, medical advisor, and the person
looks over at the director and he goes, that chubby
guy over there is killing that patient. God. So I
was like, this is not going to work out. So
I called my mom one day and I had met
my then girlfriend soon to be fiance now wife, Da,
(15:03):
who I've been with close to twenty years, and I
had determined that it was time for me to have
a family. It was always important that I wanted a family,
and I felt like in order to be a responsible caretaker,
in order to be a responsible partner, I needed to
(15:23):
get a serious job and I needed to figure out
my life because it didn't look like it was going
to be acting. So I call my mother and I
say to her, mom, you're going to be very proud
being a Jewish mother. I'm going to go to law school.
And she starts crying and I'm like, is this are
(15:43):
these happy tears? And she goes, no, they're not. She said,
I'm disappointed in you, and my jaw hit the floor.
Both my brothers went to law school. And I was like, what,
why are you disappointed in me? She goes, because you've
spent fifteen years of chasing a dream and only three
years attempting to live out that dream. And I think
(16:05):
that that's an act of cowardice, and I think you're
better than that. And I could not believe my ears.
She's the most badass single mom I think to ever live.
I love her to death. And about a little while after,
short time after, I had been told about this show
(16:29):
called the twenty fifth Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, and
friends who had seen it were like, there's this role
in it that if this guy Dan Fogler who won
the Tony fort ever leaves, there's nobody who can take
this over but you, and so on a whim, I
auditioned for this show and I somehow went from having
(16:51):
done no professional musical theater to being on a Broadway
stage for a year performing in a Tony Award winning production.
And it changed my life. Yeah, and it's because of
my mom. It's because she pushed me.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Did you get Book of Mormon? Right after that?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
No, I do Spelling Me. I then start having a
little success on screen. So I do a movie called
twenty one about card Counters from MIT.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You were great in it, Thank you. That was my
first film. I do a TV show called Back to
You with Kelsey Grammer, Patricia Heaton, Fred Willard ty Burrell,
created by the guys who would go on to create
Modern Family. So I'm thinking to myself, this show is
gonna run forever. Yeah it did not spoiler alert. I
do a movie called The Rocker, another one called Love
(17:51):
and Other Drugs, And I'm working, but Sie, I'm working
in a capacity that isn't inspiring me at all. Like
I'm the funny fat friend in all of these movies
and shows. I'm the geeky, funny fat guy. And you know,
(18:11):
it's a very real thing to get type cast. Right.
Once your type cast, that that's your path, that's what
the casting director society decides, that's your trajectory. And I
wanted more, and so I get this call out of
the blue one day from this guy Bobby Lopez, who
(18:32):
was one of the co creators and wrote the songs
for Avenue Q on Broadway, and he says, I'm working
with the South Park guys on a musical about Mormons.
And I was a giant South Park fan and I
was like, oh this. They did an infamous episode called
All about the Mormons with the famous dumb dumb dum
(18:53):
dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dumb jum.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Smith was called a prophet dumb dumb dum dum dumb
he started.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So I'm like, oh my god, they must want me
to play carton. So I'm like, yeah, this is great.
So they then send me to dance yourself. I tipegas myself.
They then send me a demo and the first song
is Hello, and I'm like, ah, this is amazing. The
second song is in this song called two by two.
(19:20):
The third song is this song called Family Home Evening,
which was hilarious and ultimately cut. And then I get
to this song that at the time was not called
this but would later be Hasadiga Ebo Why, and I
immediately stop. I call my agent and I go, I
can't do this, and he goes why and I go
(19:42):
because I will be shot in the head and he's like,
what are you talking about. I'm like, dude, let me
send you this song. And I send it to him
and he goes, oh, yeah, you can't do I was like,
I mean they're telling, like, you know, God where to
shove it Like. I was like, I can't be a
part of this. Yeah, And then I was like, you
(20:05):
know what, what the fuck? You only live once? If
this is the end, what a way to go out
in a blaze of glory. So I go to New York.
We do this live reading and at the time there
really was I think more of a desire to do
it as an animated movie than a show. So I
vividly remember the boys had done all of these animated
(20:26):
mockups that were projected behind us, and we only had
act one and we sing through it, and at the
end of it it becomes apparent to everybody involved that
this has to be a stage show. So for the
next four years we would develop it. And then I
(20:47):
get a phone call one day from the creators of
Back to You saying, we're doing this new show with
your co star from Spelling me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Would
you mind coming in and reading opposite him for this
role of Cameron, and I was like, sure, so I
do it. And then they want to make me a
(21:09):
deal to do this new show called Modern Family, and
it was like life changing money. And my manager at
the time was pushing me to do it, and I
wrote her a lengthy and passioned email and I said,
I don't think you'll understand this, but I need to
turn it down to continue doing Book of Mormon, which
at the time was not Broadway bound. It had good
(21:30):
auspices but no certainty. And she was literally like, I
want to fire you. And I got it, like this
was the show was going to pay me like one
thousand dollars a week. Like it was like, you know,
I was not going to make life changing money doing this,
whereas I was going to make like fifty thousand dollars
a week doing this other thing or more. And I
(21:54):
made this decision because I really felt in my heart
I need this, I need this creatively, I need this
for my soul. Yeah, and I thought the show would
only last three months. I thought that, you know, South
Park fans would ultimately be the only audience for it.
And then something happened very early on where you started
(22:17):
to see this organic buzz spreading like a wildfire, which
happens maybe once a decade. You know, you've seen it
with the Producers, You've seen it with Hamilton. Yeah, and
you saw it with Book of Mormon, and it was
it was truly life changing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I'm talking my stories are.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then that gave me agency. Coming off of that show,
I could start to decide to a certain extent, my
own path and not have the path be decided for me,
which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Obviously you don't regret that decision. But do you do
you ever, my wife, you.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Could have I looks at our bank account every day
and it's like, I regret that you made this.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
No, but do you ever wish, like in a perfect
world you could have done them both? Because maybe it
would have been very cool also to have done Modern Family.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No, and I'll tell you why, because I could never
have done the job that he did on that show.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, right, like.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I we both did what we were meant to do. Yeah,
And I have no regrets because I'm always the first
person to say that person was so much better. Huh.
There have been many of those roles in my life
that I either turned down or didn't get and ninety
(23:41):
nine percent of the time, I can safely tell you
no that they did a much better job.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
It made the right decision than I ever could have done. Yeah. Well,
I mean, I'm so grateful that you did that and
that you continued to do Broadway. I love musicals and
someone you work you've worked with a number of times now,
Andrew Ranolds. You guys are besties. I loved him from
Girls And I'll tell you a quick story. A couple
(24:09):
of years ago, so I had consulted for Aaron Sorkin's
the Newsroom, and so Aaron and I are friends. And
when Aaron did to Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, he
invited my husband and I to the premiere. So we
go to the premiere and across the room I see
Ranalds and I've never met him, and I'm like, this
is the I'm dying to meet this guy. He's talking
(24:31):
to John hamm okay, and I be lying over and
John Ham's looking at me, and Ranald's looking at me.
As I come across the room, and I can tell
they're like, oh God, like what's about to happen? Here
comes a crazy fan and I come over and John's
getting ready for the inevitable, like we'll just have to
(24:51):
deal with this. And I look right past John and
I quit Andrew and I'm like, I'm such a big fan,
and he's like mine, Yeah, I said sorry. John Hams
was like, oh, oh no, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's that story makes me happy for a number of reasons.
A Because people don't know this, but John Hamm and
Andrew Reynolds have like a bromance. It's the funniest thing.
They're always in each other's girls. Two. You may not
remember this, but you and your amazing husband came backstage
at Gutenberg. Yeah, and we had a number of big
(25:27):
celebrities that night, and you were the one that all
of the people backstage were so excited to see in
meet what Yes, that's true, it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think you're mistaken because that night was Steve Martin
and Martin Short.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It was And I will never forget this. My co
star Ethan Phillips from Avenue five comes up to me
and I'm thinking, he's gonna want to meet Steve Martin
Martin Short, and he goes, please introduce me to se Cup.
I'm so says, she's so brilliant, and it was so
funny because you were really competing with some super talent
(26:06):
that night, and like, my community only wanted to meet
you because they're all political junkies and news junkies.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Okay, well that's very nice.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So you've become the Andrew Aynolds of your generation.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
More from Josh Gadd's mosquito ridden Backyard. When we return,
I want to talk about Gutenberg because and it's a
little more serious. You're doing Gutenberg, and as this episode airs,
(26:47):
it'll be around the anniversary of October seventh.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
In a year that's insane.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, and on October seventh, we had an attack on
Israel by Hamas. It sparked a lot of protests. Here
I covered some really awful stomach churning anti semitism on
college campuses. In some cases my college campus is And
I know you're more spiritual than religious, but you were
raised Jewish and you have family members who survived the Holocaust,
and now you're in a musical about the first printing
(27:16):
of the Bible. It's a comedy. Simultaneously, while this is
all developing around you, you're far from your family. I mean,
what was that like? Because I know you and I
would talk during that time, but oh, it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Goes, it goes deeper, tell me. So when we open
the show, there was a whole bit at the beginning.
It brought down the house, which is the show is
a metacomedy about these two guys doing a workshop of
a terrible show, trying to get the show on to Broadway.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, show about a show, a show about a show.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And so they've taken all of the tropes of musical
theater and applied them. And at the beginning of the
show they talk about how every great musical has a
serious issue, and our serious issue is anti Semitism. And
we go into the fact that the like the main
villain of our show is going to be a little
anti semi girl. So we had done a week of previews,
(28:13):
the line was killing. October seventh happens, and I had
to get on stage that night and do that bit,
and there were crickets and it was the most I
was like, we need to have an all hands on
deck meeting tomorrow because this isn't gonna work. And our
(28:35):
amazing director Alex Timbers and our amazing writer Scott Brown
and Anthony King all gathered around and we completely changed
in real time what the opening of the show was.
It was really difficult. You know, as a grandchild of
(28:58):
Holocaust survivors. It is always it shouldn't be, but it's
always shocking to see anti Semitism still exists, and it's
always shocking that the words never forget have to still
be spoken again and again, because it seems like I
(29:21):
just don't learn whether it's people with tiki torches screaming
Jews will not replace us, to people at a concert
being massacred who were very much protesting the Israeli regime
at the time of their massacre. So it was very emotional.
(29:46):
It was very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
How did you talk to your kids about it?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I told them not to tell anyone they were Jewish,
I mean, like it legitimately. Yeah, I was really freaked out.
I had friends who got into an uber and the
uber driver asked if they were Jewish and they lied
and said no, and he said good because if you were,
I wouldn't let you into my car. So I'd been
(30:15):
like hearing a lot of these stories and I was
freaked out. And again you said it. I am very
much a spiritual Jew and one who really my wife
is Catholic. I love tradition. I actually we went to
the Vatican and I looked at her. I said, man,
(30:38):
my family really bet on the wrong horse, because I'm
just like so enamored by like yeah, all of it,
Like I just I'm like, this is so beautiful. And
so I love and appreciate everybody's faith. I think faith
is whatever you want it to be. And I never
passed judgment on anyone's faith because I think it's important
(31:00):
that everybody gets to lead their own lives and pray
or not pray in however they see fit. So when I,
in turn, am condemned for faith I was born into,
it's really dark. It's really depressing. And then to not
(31:21):
have a a lot of people defending against anti Semitism,
and I'm putting the whole Gaza Israel issue to the side.
I don't want to discuss it. I don't want to
get involved. I am not an expert on geopolitics. I
think the whole thing is fucked and my heart breaks
(31:44):
for every person.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah who dies, and of sorry, that's the right thing
to say.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
What I do have a problem with is people painting
Swasa because I'm buildings. What I do have a problem with.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Is people tearing down hostage posters.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Is people damning and condemning a group of people based
on their faith and based on the actions of a
piece of shit leader who most Jews don't even like. Yeah,
and to then turn it back and say you're all
(32:24):
the same, You're all whatever term you want to use,
Zionist scum. It's really dark. It's really dark, and it's
really really disturbing. Yeah, And I try to speak out
where I can, but it's a little bit like playing whackamol.
(32:44):
And you know, I also think it's hilarious to be
lectured by somebody like Trump who sits down with literal
neo Nazis. But I think that it is it's an
active problem on both side of the political spectrum. That
seems to be the one place where people really don't
(33:08):
feel the need to support those who are being treated
this way. And I think you can. I think you
can walk in chew gum. I think you can be
very outspoken about the actions of Netagnahu and his party
(33:29):
and at the same time support you innocent gossens not
being killed and say, oh, and by the way, you
don't have to use evil rhetoric against Jewish people. I
can do all those things, so I'm not sure why
(33:50):
others can't. And it's a real bummer because I thought
we were done with this nonsense and we're not, or
just not, and I don't think we ever will be
in my lifetime. Yeah, so I've come to live with it.
I've been called a kaike. I've been told that, you know,
(34:10):
my family should burn in a gas chamber. I'm a
guy who's never been to Israel, by the way, not
that that should matter, but like, it's really wild because
at a certain point, you're not saying these things to
any other group of people, right, You're just saying them
to us, right. And I just have a problem with that.
(34:34):
I really do well.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And the segues into mental health because you know, I've
talked a lot about my anxiety disorder. You've talked a
lot about your anxiety disorder. And what I've learned is
everyone's anxiety is different. You know, I interviewed Naomi Osaka
about her anxiety disorder. She suffers from social anxiety. That's
not my issue at all. I'm wondering how the sall
(35:00):
impacted your mental health at this at this time, I.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Wouldn't leave my apartment. I would only go to and
from the theater. I had the worst time living in
New York during that period. You know, on the night
of October eighth, I videotaped a car in front of
me with these guys wearing CAFs and waving Palestinian flags
(35:29):
after a bunch of people were massacred and you know,
protesting in the streets and celebrating. And that was before
there was any response, by the way, from you know, anybody.
And I really was like, oh my god, I'm scared,
Like I don't I'm scared to be Jewish right now.
(35:50):
I'm really scared. And so I, you know, would just
do the show. I would go home or Uber eats,
I would watch TV, I would exercise in the building,
and then I'd go back to work. Yeah, it was
a very unpleasant few months for me, and people who
(36:12):
knew me were worried about me because I was just
simply scared to exist. Like I was like, I don't
want to be targeted. I have no issues with you.
Why do you seem to have so many with me?
And you know, I have dealt with general anxiety disorder. Ironically,
(36:33):
Gad yeah, since I was about twenty years old. And
I'm proud of my anxiety. I'm proud to talk about
my anxiety. I think it has in many ways guided
me and guided my humanity because I admit to being flawed,
(36:58):
and so I understand when others are dealing with the
same thing that it is like dealing with blood pressure,
or like dealing with cancer, or like dealing with any
other health issue. And it's not something to be ashamed of. Yeah,
And it's not something to run away from, and it's
(37:19):
not something to bow your head in disappointment over. It's
something to confront, deal with, and talk about so that
others feel that sense of community, love and support.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, and that's why I do it too. But the
major reason I do it, and I'm writing a book
about it right now, is because I wish I had
seen signs earlier that I was struggling with anxiety, as
I had been for a very long time, and I
picked up awful habits, habits that I thought were actually
(37:51):
keeping me safe, like leaning into my anxiety, catastrophizing. It
got to a point where I felt like if I
were if I wasn't worried about the catastrophe around the corner,
it would happen, and so I had to worry about
it to prevent it from happening. That sort of bargaining, yep,
that we do with our anxiety, and same if I
(38:12):
didn't go through rituals of worry, then that made me
less safe. And I wish I wish I had learned
earlier because at my age now I'm forty five, it's
really hard to unlearn those habits. And so the book
I'm writing is about learning how to live without anxiety
because I learned to live with it really well, really
(38:33):
love I was awesome at anxiety. I aced it.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I love that sentiment me too, So you.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Know, learning to live without it is really hard. Do
you think looking back, were they're warning signs as you
were coming along that maybe you could have recognized to
get help earlier or no? Because I just want to
talk about anxiety in real terms that people can understand.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I love this conversation and I thank you, And also
just circling back for a second, you know you have
been one of the most vocal people when it comes
to combating anti Semitism, and I really appreciate your voice.
It means so much to people who feel afraid, who
(39:19):
feel scared, who feel alone. So I just wanted to
say that, And now circle back to the anxiety thing.
Mine came on almost overnight, and it presented itself in
a very crippling manner. I woke up one day and
I felt like I was having a heart attack. I
(39:42):
couldn't breathe, I was crying uncontrollably. I was agoraphobic. I
could not leave the bed, let alone the house.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, this was.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Two thousand and two, and my mom started bringing me
to see a bunch of specialists because nobody knew what
the hell was going on. I thought I was dying.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I had one doctor tell me it might be MS.
I had another doctor tell me it could be a
brain tumor. It was really interesting how low on the
totem pole anxiety was, which is I think an indictment
of our healthcare system and also like a reminder that like,
(40:29):
there's a lot we don't know about this, and I
think there's a lot now we do know that we
didn't know then, So which only added These potential diagnoses
only added to my anxiety because I was already a
fucking hypochondriac. R so finally one day I see a
neurologist and he says, kid, this is called anxiety. You're
(40:56):
having like a quarter life crisis, That's what this is.
And he said, are there any big things happening in
your life? And I said, well, no, not really. And
then I started to think about it, and I was like, oh,
my god, my mom just moved out of my childhood home,
which there's a lot of good and painful memories to
(41:20):
leave behind in that place about my childhood, you know,
my parents. I was about to travel to Australia to
leave home for the first time in my life by myself,
go across the world to study abroad. I was one
year away from graduating college and being on my own
(41:41):
and having to be an adult, and so, of course, yeah,
all of these things were converging at once. I also,
and I say this because I think it's important to
talk about, I had a negative experience taking a drug
in college. I smoked what I thought was marijuana, It
(42:03):
was hash and I do think that it had a
chemical effect ye where and by the way, I openly
talk about the fact that like I will smoke pot
when I'm dealing with anxiety to actually calm myself down.
So it's not like I'm against these things, but I
think that it's important to understand that there are many
(42:26):
ways that it can come out and present itself. Yeah,
for me, that was the way it presented itself. Having
said that, anxiety was always there, but like you, I
just gave into it so much that I didn't see
it was actually taking over me. I compare anxiety to
the character of Venom from Spider Man, where it's like,
(42:49):
you know, you think he's an ally until he turns
on you. And actually, I think that the most profound
work that's been done in any form of entertainment with
regard to this issue is Inside Out Too Orange?
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Who made the console orange? Do I look orange? Orange?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Is not my color?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
On me?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Hello, everybody, I'm anxiety. I'm one of Riley's new emotions
and we are just super jazzed to be here. Where
can I put myself?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
It is such a brilliant way to illustrate the effects
of this thing, because I used to describe it and
my parents didn't understand what was going on with me.
My brothers couldn't understand what was they were They looked
at me like I was an alien, and I said
to them, you don't understand. It's like I'm a prisoner
in my own fucking body. Yes, and I can't get out.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And when I saw that movie, it was so profound
because that's exactly what it was. It was like somebody
was at the control panel of my brain and they
took it. They hijacked the entire plane, and I couldn't
get out of it. And then through therapy, through medicine,
(44:02):
I was able to see light through the darkness. And
I will never not have anxiety, but I'm now able
to live with my anxiety and not let it take
over my life.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Well that's what I wanted to ask you about next.
Then that's the truth. We'll always have it, and we've
learned how to manage it. We're doing the work, and
that's great. And movies like Inside Out too. I mean,
it's so great for parents because it gives me a
language to talk to my son about anxiety, which you know,
in a way that makes sense to him. But do
you ever get exhausted just thinking about the fact that
(44:38):
we'll always have this? Because I do, and even though
I'm doing the work, I'm in therapy, I'm on medication.
I'm getting better. I've learned so much about it. I'm
still just like this is forever.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I do. And I often in those moments, and I
am starting to see it creep out in my own kids.
My niece and nephew have serious anxiety. In those moments
I see I start to actually think about how blessed
we are, because then I'm like, Okay, my grandparents who
were in the Holocaust had every reason to be anxiety
(45:16):
prone the rest of their lives and had to do
it without any medical support, without probably any diagnosis, and
so for the first time in the history of our species,
we actually have ways to combat it, and so I
feel relieved about that. I feel relieved that I have
(45:38):
the tools to deal with it that if I didn't
have these tools, I would probably be in an insane
asylum because it got that bad for me. And I
feel blessed that I have people like you and many
others who are now openly talking about it, not for nothing.
(46:00):
I think a part of it is that we as
a species have not evolved at the rate that our
technology is evolving.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yes, no, there are studies showing that.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yes, and you don't even need studies you just need
to look on and feel right. And when I'm and
I'm holding up my phone right now, but when I'm
constantly looking down at this device, I am absorbing information
at a faster rate than at any time in the
millennia that humans have been walking this planet. Yep, my brain,
(46:35):
your brain, the most brilliant minds on the planet are
not equipped to do this. We are not equipped to
handle this influx of non stop information, and it's mixed
with social media. And by the way, I'm not surprised
(46:58):
that you are constantly dealing withinnxiety because of the nature
of your work. Right you are having to literally go
to work and talk about chaos on a daily basis.
That is your job.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
My work is very triggering and it's been a huge
court of therapy trying to figure out do I have
to quit what I do to protect my mental health
because dealing in bad news all the time has the effect,
at least one my brain of making me think the
odds are bad news is going to happen to me
around every corner.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
And I think, I and that's not true. I think
that's why you're so fucking good at what you do,
because you may not know this, but you are a
very calming voice, your practical voice, and you're a very
no no, you are. You're one of the few journalists
doing it right now who have nuance to the way
(47:54):
you see things, and things aren't always black and white
and aren't always right and wrong. And when you can
sort of unload what's happening in real time and presenting
facts back to us, that is a very calming thing
(48:14):
for those of us who are constantly going down the
rabbit hole of oh my god, is this the end
of the world? Oh my god, does this mean that,
like the economy is going to crash, or that we're
going to deal with the end of democracy, or that
we're going to deal with World War three? And when
you have people who are giving you the information, who
(48:36):
are stewards of information, that is one of the most
important tasks in any workforce that there is, because there's
so much disinformation and misinformation that we need stewards like
you to do the heavy lifting. And because you deal
(48:57):
with the anxiety, you know how to present it to
us in a way that won't make us doubly anxious.
So it's it's brilliant what you do.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Thank you it's true, thank you, And I tried to
in addition to being calming, you know, I just I
try to lead with empathy too, which is you know
with you Oh well, but my anxiety, I think has
has created a lot of that, that empathy and a
desire for more of it. All right, we're going to
(49:38):
do a lightning round, but before that, you have you
have a new book out now. It's a children's book,
Picture Face Lizzie and the other you mentioned in God
We Trust to Tell Some. It's not a tell all.
It's a Tell Some which is coming out. That's a memoir.
Where'd you find the time to write two books? And
it's all of your jobs.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
The children's book was something that I had been wanting
to do for a long time during COVID. I don't
know if you remember, but I decided to pick up
my phone one day and start reading children's books to
kids at home during the early days of the pandemic,
because I felt a lot of parents were like me,
(50:20):
flailing and trying to figure out how to keep their
kids busy as they had to, you know, pay their
bills and do their work. And so I really started
to immerse myself in these books, and I was like,
I love this, I really want to do this, and it.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Was so great because like it's the voice of Oloff
reading your kids, you know, kids books, like every kid
I'm sure love So.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
It was it was really profound for them and for me.
And so I had been wanting to write something about
my kid's obsession with TikTok and our desire to protect
them from things like TikTok for as long as we can,
because again we talk about the fact that like these
(51:04):
things there it is, there's mosquito, These things have an effect.
And so the book is about this girl who wants
this doll that can do anything and everything that is
a digital has a digital element to it that all
of her friends have. And this girl has such an
active imagination and she's such a free spirit and she's
(51:26):
always doing something with her imagination. And her parents reluctantly
given and they say, yes, you can get a picture face, Lizzie,
but don't let it take away from who you are
and don't let it become your life. And it's about
her journey of getting the doll and finding a healthy
(51:48):
relationship with it that doesn't become all consuming. And it's
I think it's a really important message for kids.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
It's so great and parents.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
So can't wait for people to read that. And then
and gad we trust.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Is similarly about me dealing with my own anxiety and
putting it in a two hundred and fifty page book
about my journey, my life, the experiences that I've had,
and hopefully how those experiences may mirror some of the
things my readers have dealt with. Things like anxiety, things
(52:20):
like battling with my own inner demons, about faith, about
being a father, about being a good father, about marriage,
about all of it. So very excited for both, and
and I.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Can't wait for both. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
It'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Lightning rounds. These are quick ready, Yes, every celebrity has
a new brand, a tequila, a skincare line. What product
could you see yourself getting in business with?
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I've jokingly said this, but I mean it ice wine, right,
like it's perfect, right, It's perfect for me.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
You know, And I don't don't know a lot of
celebrity ice wines.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
No, the market has not been cornered. What will you
call it? Oh man, I haven't gotten that far yet.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Okay, all right, we'll work on it. We'll workshop.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, let's workshop it together.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
We're birthday twins and so we're both pisces. I don't
know if you care about astrology in your mind, what
does pisces mean to you?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Fluid? It means it means adaptable. It also to me
it means empathetic. I really think that we have cornered
the market on empathy, and I kind of love us
for it.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, I love that for us.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Every Pisces I know just is like leads with heart
and love. And you know, people call us wishy washy,
but I think we're actually just really thoughtful.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I like that. Okay, who's funnier you are? Ryannalds Ranalds.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Unfortunately Randals has like an acerbic, dark witch about him
that like is so funny and he's so real, and
it's just every time he says something, I laugh, I
have to work harder for laughs.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
His comedy it's very current, it's very now, it's very amable,
it's very it's extremely online. It's great. I mean, he's
he's so of the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
He really is. Yeah, we're working. We're working on something
right now that I can't wait for people to see.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Oh, yay, okay, good Okay. This last part, I'm going
to describe three musicals to you. You have to tell
me which one's not real. Okay, okay, okay, love it. Okay.
Here's one called Ride the Cyclone. Members of the Saint
Cassian High School Chamber Choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, have
(54:47):
perished on a faulty roller coaster called the Cyclone. Each
tells their story in the form of song to win
the reward from a mechanical fortune teller, the chance to
return to life. Okay, that's one.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Okay, if that's a real musical, I don't want to
live in this world, but okay, go on.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
The second is called Me and My Dick. Me and
My Dick is a coming of age tale about a
boy with a very special relationship with his very best friend,
his Dick. Together, they face the trials of growing up, love, sex,
and high school. But these two best pals are in
for the adventure of a lifetime. Hey, that's Me and
My Dick.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
I'm so glad somebody adapted my first biography.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Go on, Okay. And the third one is Jonestown the musical. Jonestown.
The musical is told through the point of view of
Jim Jones's chief Lieutenant of the People's Temple. Working backwards
from that infamous day in nineteen seventy eight when Jones
instructed his congregation to drink a cyanide laced fruit punch.
Through multiple musical genres Vaudeville, Americana, gospel circus, Jonestown examines
(55:48):
the era that made it possible for a meglomaniac like
Jim Jones to attract so many loyal followers. Okay, Ride
the Cycle, Me and My Dick or Jonestown the Musical.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Okay, I'm going to work backwards here. I think Jones
sound the musical is a real thing. Okay, I can
imagine that, like that is something that somebody's written. I
don't want to believe Me and My Dick is a
real musical because it sounds so absurd and fucking crazy,
which is why, in fact, I think it is a
real musical. So I'm gonna go with Ride the Cyclone.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Okay, It's true. They're all real, They're all real.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
That's so depressing. That is just a really damning statement
about musical theater right now.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
Or is it awesome that this is a place.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
By the way is cut to a year from now,
and me and my dick is the new Hamilton, and
I'm eating my own words, and I'm like, I'll.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Tell you, I think it was written by Darren Cris
So it's.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
Not like, oh shit, Darren's a friend of mine. Well
so now I really guys, everybody goes see me in
my dick. It's a masterpiece.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Okay. The last question is the most important to me
because this is my spirituality, this is my culture, this
is my religion. When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I mean, do you not see what's in my hand?
Speaker 1 (57:10):
I see it? So when is it?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
It's all year round.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
That's the correct answer. That's the cart answer. It's all
around season.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
I do two black iced coffees a day and I
have no regrets, and I do mine unsweetened, and I
want it just into my veins.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I just need it same. I don't want to sip it.
It's not precious. I inject it. If I could inject it,
I would, but yeah I can't, so I'll have it iced. God,
we really are like we are the same. We're twining,
We're always twinning. We're the same.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
I love you. You're the best.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Next week on Off the Cup datelines Josh Mankowitz.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
When I took this job in February of ninety five,
I didn't have the slightest thought like, Okay, this is
the thing you're going to retire from. You didn't you know,
like what lasts thirty years in television?
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Recent Choice Network. I'm Your Host Si Cupp.
Editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Sie Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday.
Welcome to Off the Cup. I'mssy Cup and this is
our mental health break from the news. You know, I've
covered politics and news for twenty plus years. You may
know me from CNN or MSNBC or Battleground. Maybe you
read or hate read my columns. I've covered everything from
(00:24):
elections this is my sixth presidential to war and genocide,
to sports and pop culture. But this podcast, Off the
Cup is a break from the news. Here is where
I'm going to interview interesting people, many of whom are
my friends, about their actual lives. You remember your life,
you know, family, career, parenting, travel, love, loss, mental health,
(00:48):
the stuff that matters to you when we're not talking
about politics. That's what we're going to do. And lastly,
if you follow me, you know I've struggled with an
anxiety disorder and I want to talk a lot more
about and about mental health because when we do, we
take it out of the shadows and end the stigma.
(01:08):
So when I got this podcast, the first person, the
first person I knew I wanted to interview. It wasn't
a journalist, it wasn't a politico. It was Josh Gadd
And you may say, why, well, he is everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
These days, saying why by the way, but going.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You may know him as Olof from Frozen, or Elder
Arnold Cunningham from the Book of Mormon, or the Wedding Ringer.
I just saw him on Broadway in Gutenberg the Musical.
He can sing, he can act, he can sort of dance,
and more importantly, he's just a wonderful human being. Welcome
to off the Cup, Josh gadd.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I am so delighted. I'm so delighted. I'm so perplexed
that you would be so kind and crazy as to
make me your first guest. You know a lot of
people don't know this. We're birthday twins, and so I've
always loved you primarily for that reason, same for others
(02:09):
as well. And I'm so proud of you. I'm so
excited to be here. I'm so excited that you have
this platform, and I am just like hoping that I
don't destroy the platform in its earliest stages.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Don't fuck it up.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I'm going to try not to.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Do you want to tell people how we first got
in touch. We have not discussed this, so you can
say yes or no. Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Of course I remember? But I want you to tell them.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, I'll tell So it's February twenty eighteen and I
get a voicemail from Josh Gatt. We did not know
each other.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Okay, ready, hey there, it's Josh Gatt calling Hope all
as well, trying me back whenever your freemare numbers. Wait
a second, I called you. I blind called you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, do you know why?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So I'm on set doing my show as he Cup
Unfiltered at CNN and I see you. I see my
phone light up, and I can't answer it. I'm like,
Josh Gadd, that can't be like the Josh Gadd, like
the Josh Gadd because I knew who you were, but
we had never spoken. So I finished the show and
then I get in the car to go home. And
I ride home always with my producer friend because we
(03:27):
live in the same town, and we always in the
back of the car, which is driven by a professional.
We open a bottle of wine. This is what we
did every Friday night.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Got I want to work at CNN.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So we're in the back of the car and I'm like,
I have to play this. This is this sounds like him.
So I called you back in the car okay, and
you said, I'm a fan, and I just think you're
really smart, and I want to get educated on the
issue of gun control.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I remember this. I remember this, and that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I don't know that we agree. I think we might
be on different sides, but the way you talk about
it is it's important. And I want to know more
because I want to get educated and I want to
talk more, you know, intelligently about an issue I care
a lot about. And I I had just I had
just left the nr A, I had just sort of
found religion on guns a bit, coming from a Second
(04:18):
Amendment side to someone who really wanted to talk differently,
finally about about that issue. And so I was so
embracing of this outreach. But I can count Josh on
one finger the number of people, public people, celebrities, whomever,
who have called to say I want to know more
(04:38):
about an issue. Can we talk about it?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's depressing, it is, but that's so such a.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Testament to who you are. I'm not telling this story
to flatter myself. I'm telling this because I think it
says so much about who you are. You're curious, you
want to know stuff, you want to speak from facts,
you're passionate, you care about your family and your kids.
You cared enough to call a ranger to say, tell
me the arguments that I should avoid or the things
(05:05):
that I should say that aren't working. Yep, I mean
it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I so appreciate that. I have always been a very
curious person. I would say until November of twenty sixteen,
I wasn't a judgmental person when it came to political I.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Think I know what happened around that time.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
You know, when it came to political beliefs, because I
you know, I grew up in a household where my
brother was independent, leaning more I think to the right.
I've always seen myself as moderate up until a certain
breaking point. And I really believe that a healthy two
party system is not only important, but essential for the
(05:52):
survival of the country. My favorite president of all time
is Theodore Roosevelt, who happens to be a Republican. And
I really believe that people need to do outreach, they
need to hear what other people are thinking, and sometimes
the lack of that creates more divisiveness where there really
(06:17):
isn't that divisiveness at the dinner table.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's a perception of divisiveness.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It's a perception of divisiveness.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, it's a perception that we're on the opposite ends.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
One hundred percent. And I am old enough to remember
a time where that outreach existed and not only existed,
but was really an essential part of friendships, of family,
dynamics of all of it. And I really long for that.
(06:49):
I really miss that. I really pray we can get
back there again. I think it's healthy for the survival
of democracy. And unfortunately I just think that, and I
say this often, but I think politics and society written
large have turned into a team sport, a gladiator like sport. Yeah,
(07:14):
and I don't love that, you know, because even at
the end of a football game, I reach out to
my Bills fans playing my Dolphins, and I say congratulations
on the win or I'm sorry for the loss. And
I think we got to get back there at a
certain point.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well, you're doing you're doing the work, you're leading by example,
and I appreciate that you mentioned the Dolphins. You grew
up in Florida and you told me just before we
got on here you left because of the mosquitoes, and
only the mosquitoes that can't be true, No, I what
did they do to you?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I left because of the humidity and the mosquitoes. I
was saying this because we have frighteningly gotten an influx
of mosquitos in Los Angeles, and now I have a
People can't say this, but I have a fly squatter
on me at all times that I'm sitting outside.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, they're not supposed to be there.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
They're not supposed to be here. California needs to put
up a wall to protect ourselves from these insects. But
I love growing up in Florida. I actually have incredible memories.
All my family is still in Florida, so I have
a brother in Fort Lauderdale, a brother in Tampa, and
(08:26):
my parents are in West Palm and I try to
go back once a year. And if it weren't for
again the unflinching humidity and heat, I would probably live
there at least part time, because it's you know, it's
where I'm from.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We call that. I call that that kind of humidity
that it's squatchy. It feels squatchy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It is. I can't do like ae hundred degree heat,
like with wetness.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I can do hundreds heat.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I can do Phoenix yeah, I can do Vegas, but
when it comes to like giving me sweat on top
of heat, that's when I check out.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yes too much. So I think a lot of people
know you for your work on stage and fun fact,
you don't read music. Yet You've done a ton of musicals.
I've seen a number of them. You're so good in them.
Did you grow up watching musicals? You seem very natural?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Okay, So this is really funny because I just literally
my daughter just passed level three of her sight reading
exams for her music class, and I looked at her
with such jealousy in my soul days like, can you
teach me? One day to my thirteen year old, can
you teach me how to read music? She's like, you're
(09:47):
a forty three year old man who's done two and
you don't know how to read music. I'm like, no
nobody ever taught me. It's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So well, it hasn't stopped you, It hasn't.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Stopped me, although it did along the way. So I'll
give you kind of the brief history of this. My
parents got divorced when I was six. I have a
book coming out in January called and Gad We Trust
that discusses all of the syd nauseum, so I won't
put me these tears now. But I sort of weaponized
comedy early on to try to get my mom to
(10:22):
not be sad about the fact that her entire life
as she knew it was shattered.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, and that's a lot of pressure for a six
year old.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It's a lot of pressure. It's also a very cliche
way for someone to find their way into entertainment. But
that was sort of like the first payment to it.
And I remember my mom taking me to see Kathy
Rigby on tour doing Peter Pan in South Florida.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Randy, look my shadow, my very own shadow. It's only
a shadow.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And I was taken to another world. I was like,
it was this arresting moment. Shortly thereafter, I saw my
first Broadway show, which was Topal in Fiddler on the
Roof Iconic, and again I was like, God, I want
(11:14):
to do this thing. Then sort of the final piece
of this puzzle was I was sitting in a movie
theater and I was watching a movie in nineteen ninety
two called a Latin and I saw Robin Williams playing
the Genie singing you ain't never had a friend like me,
(11:36):
and I turned to my mom and I said, I'm
going to do that one day, and that was sort
of the trajectory of the journey. I then graduate from
high school. I applied to Carnegie mellon drama and I
applied to be in the musical theater program and they
say to me, kid, you got great acting chops, the
musical thing is not going to work out. So my
(11:58):
classmates as I was on the acting trajectory of the program,
my classmates were Roy O'Malley who would co star in
Book of Mormon with me, Leslie Odom Junior, Tony Award
winner from Hamilton, oh.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Just Leslie Odom Junior, and a little.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Singer named Josh Grovin. Those were literally three of the
nine people in the musical theater program in my class,
so it was a really talented class. So I don't
hold a grudge, but it is really funny to me
that I was just not good enough to get into
the musical and I've made half my living on musicals.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
But sometimes that's exactly what you need to hear. I
did a program at the college I would eventually go
to over the summer because I really wanted to go there,
and at the end of it, the dean was like,
you know, this school's not for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I was like, oh no, And then I ended up
I like determined to get in, and I did. But
sometimes you just need to hear.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That oh same. By the way, I say this all
the time, I got rejected. So my top two choices
were Northwestern and Juilliard, And about two years ago I
shared my rejection letter online with people from Juilliard. And
I think that that to your point, I think it
(13:22):
really does drive you. Yeah, And I think there's a
part of all of us that wants to prove the
naysayers wrong, and so it's important to have naysayers. It's
a healthy part of your trajectory and a healthy part
of your journey to be told I don't believe you
have it in you, because it forces you to find
it in yourself and.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Believe in yourself completely.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah. Also, I was one of nine people to apply
from my class to Northwestern, and out of the nine,
I was the only person to get a real real bummer.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So what do you think was your big break? I
know you talk about that in the new book, But
what do you think was your big big break.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
So, I mean, I I was out of college for
about three years. I was not getting work. I had
done an episode of TV. I was a doctor on
er and I was trying to resuscitate somebody and using
the CPR device, and you know all of these shows
(14:41):
have an on set advisor, medical advisor, and the person
looks over at the director and he goes, that chubby
guy over there is killing that patient. God. So I
was like, this is not going to work out. So
I called my mom one day and I had met
my then girlfriend soon to be fiance now wife, Da,
(15:03):
who I've been with close to twenty years, and I
had determined that it was time for me to have
a family. It was always important that I wanted a family,
and I felt like in order to be a responsible caretaker,
in order to be a responsible partner, I needed to
(15:23):
get a serious job and I needed to figure out
my life because it didn't look like it was going
to be acting. So I call my mother and I
say to her, mom, you're going to be very proud
being a Jewish mother. I'm going to go to law school.
And she starts crying and I'm like, is this are
(15:43):
these happy tears? And she goes, no, they're not. She said,
I'm disappointed in you, and my jaw hit the floor.
Both my brothers went to law school. And I was like, what,
why are you disappointed in me? She goes, because you've
spent fifteen years of chasing a dream and only three
years attempting to live out that dream. And I think
(16:05):
that that's an act of cowardice, and I think you're
better than that. And I could not believe my ears.
She's the most badass single mom I think to ever live.
I love her to death. And about a little while after,
short time after, I had been told about this show
(16:29):
called the twenty fifth Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, and
friends who had seen it were like, there's this role
in it that if this guy Dan Fogler who won
the Tony fort ever leaves, there's nobody who can take
this over but you, and so on a whim, I
auditioned for this show and I somehow went from having
(16:51):
done no professional musical theater to being on a Broadway
stage for a year performing in a Tony Award winning production.
And it changed my life. Yeah, and it's because of
my mom. It's because she pushed me.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Did you get Book of Mormon? Right after that?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
No, I do Spelling Me. I then start having a
little success on screen. So I do a movie called
twenty one about card Counters from MIT.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You were great in it, Thank you. That was my
first film. I do a TV show called Back to
You with Kelsey Grammer, Patricia Heaton, Fred Willard ty Burrell,
created by the guys who would go on to create
Modern Family. So I'm thinking to myself, this show is
gonna run forever. Yeah it did not spoiler alert. I
do a movie called The Rocker, another one called Love
(17:51):
and Other Drugs, And I'm working, but Sie, I'm working
in a capacity that isn't inspiring me at all. Like
I'm the funny fat friend in all of these movies
and shows. I'm the geeky, funny fat guy. And you know,
(18:11):
it's a very real thing to get type cast. Right.
Once your type cast, that that's your path, that's what
the casting director society decides, that's your trajectory. And I
wanted more, and so I get this call out of
the blue one day from this guy Bobby Lopez, who
(18:32):
was one of the co creators and wrote the songs
for Avenue Q on Broadway, and he says, I'm working
with the South Park guys on a musical about Mormons.
And I was a giant South Park fan and I
was like, oh this. They did an infamous episode called
All about the Mormons with the famous dumb dumb dum
(18:53):
dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dumb jum.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Smith was called a prophet dumb dumb dum dum dumb
he started.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So I'm like, oh my god, they must want me
to play carton. So I'm like, yeah, this is great.
So they then send me to dance yourself. I tipegas myself.
They then send me a demo and the first song
is Hello, and I'm like, ah, this is amazing. The
second song is in this song called two by two.
(19:20):
The third song is this song called Family Home Evening,
which was hilarious and ultimately cut. And then I get
to this song that at the time was not called
this but would later be Hasadiga Ebo Why, and I
immediately stop. I call my agent and I go, I
can't do this, and he goes why and I go
(19:42):
because I will be shot in the head and he's like,
what are you talking about. I'm like, dude, let me
send you this song. And I send it to him
and he goes, oh, yeah, you can't do I was like,
I mean they're telling, like, you know, God where to
shove it Like. I was like, I can't be a
part of this. Yeah, And then I was like, you
(20:05):
know what, what the fuck? You only live once? If
this is the end, what a way to go out
in a blaze of glory. So I go to New York.
We do this live reading and at the time there
really was I think more of a desire to do
it as an animated movie than a show. So I
vividly remember the boys had done all of these animated
(20:26):
mockups that were projected behind us, and we only had
act one and we sing through it, and at the
end of it it becomes apparent to everybody involved that
this has to be a stage show. So for the
next four years we would develop it. And then I
(20:47):
get a phone call one day from the creators of
Back to You saying, we're doing this new show with
your co star from Spelling me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Would
you mind coming in and reading opposite him for this
role of Cameron, and I was like, sure, so I
do it. And then they want to make me a
(21:09):
deal to do this new show called Modern Family, and
it was like life changing money. And my manager at
the time was pushing me to do it, and I
wrote her a lengthy and passioned email and I said,
I don't think you'll understand this, but I need to
turn it down to continue doing Book of Mormon, which
at the time was not Broadway bound. It had good
(21:30):
auspices but no certainty. And she was literally like, I
want to fire you. And I got it, like this
was the show was going to pay me like one
thousand dollars a week. Like it was like, you know,
I was not going to make life changing money doing this,
whereas I was going to make like fifty thousand dollars
a week doing this other thing or more. And I
(21:54):
made this decision because I really felt in my heart
I need this, I need this creatively, I need this
for my soul. Yeah, and I thought the show would
only last three months. I thought that, you know, South
Park fans would ultimately be the only audience for it.
And then something happened very early on where you started
(22:17):
to see this organic buzz spreading like a wildfire, which
happens maybe once a decade. You know, you've seen it
with the Producers, You've seen it with Hamilton. Yeah, and
you saw it with Book of Mormon, and it was
it was truly life changing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I'm talking my stories are.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then that gave me agency. Coming off of that show,
I could start to decide to a certain extent, my
own path and not have the path be decided for me,
which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Obviously you don't regret that decision. But do you do
you ever, my wife, you.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Could have I looks at our bank account every day
and it's like, I regret that you made this.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
No, but do you ever wish, like in a perfect
world you could have done them both? Because maybe it
would have been very cool also to have done Modern Family.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
No, and I'll tell you why, because I could never
have done the job that he did on that show.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, right, like.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
I we both did what we were meant to do. Yeah,
And I have no regrets because I'm always the first
person to say that person was so much better. Huh.
There have been many of those roles in my life
that I either turned down or didn't get and ninety
(23:41):
nine percent of the time, I can safely tell you
no that they did a much better job.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
It made the right decision than I ever could have done. Yeah. Well,
I mean, I'm so grateful that you did that and
that you continued to do Broadway. I love musicals and
someone you work you've worked with a number of times now,
Andrew Ranolds. You guys are besties. I loved him from
Girls And I'll tell you a quick story. A couple
(24:09):
of years ago, so I had consulted for Aaron Sorkin's
the Newsroom, and so Aaron and I are friends. And
when Aaron did to Kill a Mockingbird on Broadway, he
invited my husband and I to the premiere. So we
go to the premiere and across the room I see
Ranalds and I've never met him, and I'm like, this
is the I'm dying to meet this guy. He's talking
(24:31):
to John hamm okay, and I be lying over and
John Ham's looking at me, and Ranald's looking at me.
As I come across the room, and I can tell
they're like, oh God, like what's about to happen? Here
comes a crazy fan and I come over and John's
getting ready for the inevitable, like we'll just have to
(24:51):
deal with this. And I look right past John and
I quit Andrew and I'm like, I'm such a big fan,
and he's like mine, Yeah, I said sorry. John Hams
was like, oh, oh no, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's that story makes me happy for a number of reasons.
A Because people don't know this, but John Hamm and
Andrew Reynolds have like a bromance. It's the funniest thing.
They're always in each other's girls. Two. You may not
remember this, but you and your amazing husband came backstage
at Gutenberg. Yeah, and we had a number of big
(25:27):
celebrities that night, and you were the one that all
of the people backstage were so excited to see in
meet what Yes, that's true, it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think you're mistaken because that night was Steve Martin
and Martin Short.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It was And I will never forget this. My co
star Ethan Phillips from Avenue five comes up to me
and I'm thinking, he's gonna want to meet Steve Martin
Martin Short, and he goes, please introduce me to se Cup.
I'm so says, she's so brilliant, and it was so
funny because you were really competing with some super talent
(26:06):
that night, and like, my community only wanted to meet
you because they're all political junkies and news junkies.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Okay, well that's very nice.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So you've become the Andrew Aynolds of your generation.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
More from Josh Gadd's mosquito ridden Backyard. When we return,
I want to talk about Gutenberg because and it's a
little more serious. You're doing Gutenberg, and as this episode airs,
(26:47):
it'll be around the anniversary of October seventh.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
In a year that's insane.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, and on October seventh, we had an attack on
Israel by Hamas. It sparked a lot of protests. Here
I covered some really awful stomach churning anti semitism on
college campuses. In some cases my college campus is And
I know you're more spiritual than religious, but you were
raised Jewish and you have family members who survived the Holocaust,
and now you're in a musical about the first printing
(27:16):
of the Bible. It's a comedy. Simultaneously, while this is
all developing around you, you're far from your family. I mean,
what was that like? Because I know you and I
would talk during that time, but oh, it.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Goes, it goes deeper, tell me. So when we open
the show, there was a whole bit at the beginning.
It brought down the house, which is the show is
a metacomedy about these two guys doing a workshop of
a terrible show, trying to get the show on to Broadway.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, show about a show, a show about a show.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And so they've taken all of the tropes of musical
theater and applied them. And at the beginning of the
show they talk about how every great musical has a
serious issue, and our serious issue is anti Semitism. And
we go into the fact that the like the main
villain of our show is going to be a little
anti semi girl. So we had done a week of previews,
(28:13):
the line was killing. October seventh happens, and I had
to get on stage that night and do that bit,
and there were crickets and it was the most I
was like, we need to have an all hands on
deck meeting tomorrow because this isn't gonna work. And our
(28:35):
amazing director Alex Timbers and our amazing writer Scott Brown
and Anthony King all gathered around and we completely changed
in real time what the opening of the show was.
It was really difficult. You know, as a grandchild of
(28:58):
Holocaust survivors. It is always it shouldn't be, but it's
always shocking to see anti Semitism still exists, and it's
always shocking that the words never forget have to still
be spoken again and again, because it seems like I
(29:21):
just don't learn whether it's people with tiki torches screaming
Jews will not replace us, to people at a concert
being massacred who were very much protesting the Israeli regime
at the time of their massacre. So it was very emotional.
(29:46):
It was very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
How did you talk to your kids about it?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I told them not to tell anyone they were Jewish,
I mean, like it legitimately. Yeah, I was really freaked out.
I had friends who got into an uber and the
uber driver asked if they were Jewish and they lied
and said no, and he said good because if you were,
I wouldn't let you into my car. So I'd been
(30:15):
like hearing a lot of these stories and I was
freaked out. And again you said it. I am very
much a spiritual Jew and one who really my wife
is Catholic. I love tradition. I actually we went to
the Vatican and I looked at her. I said, man,
(30:38):
my family really bet on the wrong horse, because I'm
just like so enamored by like yeah, all of it,
Like I just I'm like, this is so beautiful. And
so I love and appreciate everybody's faith. I think faith
is whatever you want it to be. And I never
passed judgment on anyone's faith because I think it's important
(31:00):
that everybody gets to lead their own lives and pray
or not pray in however they see fit. So when I,
in turn, am condemned for faith I was born into,
it's really dark. It's really depressing. And then to not
(31:21):
have a a lot of people defending against anti Semitism,
and I'm putting the whole Gaza Israel issue to the side.
I don't want to discuss it. I don't want to
get involved. I am not an expert on geopolitics. I
think the whole thing is fucked and my heart breaks
(31:44):
for every person.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah who dies, and of sorry, that's the right thing
to say.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
What I do have a problem with is people painting
Swasa because I'm buildings. What I do have a problem with.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Is people tearing down hostage posters.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Is people damning and condemning a group of people based
on their faith and based on the actions of a
piece of shit leader who most Jews don't even like. Yeah,
and to then turn it back and say you're all
(32:24):
the same, You're all whatever term you want to use,
Zionist scum. It's really dark. It's really dark, and it's
really really disturbing. Yeah, And I try to speak out
where I can, but it's a little bit like playing whackamol.
(32:44):
And you know, I also think it's hilarious to be
lectured by somebody like Trump who sits down with literal
neo Nazis. But I think that it is it's an
active problem on both side of the political spectrum. That
seems to be the one place where people really don't
(33:08):
feel the need to support those who are being treated
this way. And I think you can. I think you
can walk in chew gum. I think you can be
very outspoken about the actions of Netagnahu and his party
(33:29):
and at the same time support you innocent gossens not
being killed and say, oh, and by the way, you
don't have to use evil rhetoric against Jewish people. I
can do all those things, so I'm not sure why
(33:50):
others can't. And it's a real bummer because I thought
we were done with this nonsense and we're not, or
just not, and I don't think we ever will be
in my lifetime. Yeah, so I've come to live with it.
I've been called a kaike. I've been told that, you know,
(34:10):
my family should burn in a gas chamber. I'm a
guy who's never been to Israel, by the way, not
that that should matter, but like, it's really wild because
at a certain point, you're not saying these things to
any other group of people, right, You're just saying them
to us, right. And I just have a problem with that.
(34:34):
I really do well.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And the segues into mental health because you know, I've
talked a lot about my anxiety disorder. You've talked a
lot about your anxiety disorder. And what I've learned is
everyone's anxiety is different. You know, I interviewed Naomi Osaka
about her anxiety disorder. She suffers from social anxiety. That's
not my issue at all. I'm wondering how the sall
(35:00):
impacted your mental health at this at this time, I.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Wouldn't leave my apartment. I would only go to and
from the theater. I had the worst time living in
New York during that period. You know, on the night
of October eighth, I videotaped a car in front of
me with these guys wearing CAFs and waving Palestinian flags
(35:29):
after a bunch of people were massacred and you know,
protesting in the streets and celebrating. And that was before
there was any response, by the way, from you know, anybody.
And I really was like, oh my god, I'm scared,
Like I don't I'm scared to be Jewish right now.
(35:50):
I'm really scared. And so I, you know, would just
do the show. I would go home or Uber eats,
I would watch TV, I would exercise in the building,
and then I'd go back to work. Yeah, it was
a very unpleasant few months for me, and people who
(36:12):
knew me were worried about me because I was just
simply scared to exist. Like I was like, I don't
want to be targeted. I have no issues with you.
Why do you seem to have so many with me?
And you know, I have dealt with general anxiety disorder. Ironically,
(36:33):
Gad yeah, since I was about twenty years old. And
I'm proud of my anxiety. I'm proud to talk about
my anxiety. I think it has in many ways guided
me and guided my humanity because I admit to being flawed,
(36:58):
and so I understand when others are dealing with the
same thing that it is like dealing with blood pressure,
or like dealing with cancer, or like dealing with any
other health issue. And it's not something to be ashamed of. Yeah,
And it's not something to run away from, and it's
(37:19):
not something to bow your head in disappointment over. It's
something to confront, deal with, and talk about so that
others feel that sense of community, love and support.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, and that's why I do it too. But the
major reason I do it, and I'm writing a book
about it right now, is because I wish I had
seen signs earlier that I was struggling with anxiety, as
I had been for a very long time, and I
picked up awful habits, habits that I thought were actually
(37:51):
keeping me safe, like leaning into my anxiety, catastrophizing. It
got to a point where I felt like if I
were if I wasn't worried about the catastrophe around the corner,
it would happen, and so I had to worry about
it to prevent it from happening. That sort of bargaining, yep,
that we do with our anxiety, and same if I
(38:12):
didn't go through rituals of worry, then that made me
less safe. And I wish I wish I had learned
earlier because at my age now I'm forty five, it's
really hard to unlearn those habits. And so the book
I'm writing is about learning how to live without anxiety
because I learned to live with it really well, really
(38:33):
love I was awesome at anxiety. I aced it.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I love that sentiment me too, So you.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Know, learning to live without it is really hard. Do
you think looking back, were they're warning signs as you
were coming along that maybe you could have recognized to
get help earlier or no? Because I just want to
talk about anxiety in real terms that people can understand.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I love this conversation and I thank you, And also
just circling back for a second, you know you have
been one of the most vocal people when it comes
to combating anti Semitism, and I really appreciate your voice.
It means so much to people who feel afraid, who
(39:19):
feel scared, who feel alone. So I just wanted to
say that, And now circle back to the anxiety thing.
Mine came on almost overnight, and it presented itself in
a very crippling manner. I woke up one day and
I felt like I was having a heart attack. I
(39:42):
couldn't breathe, I was crying uncontrollably. I was agoraphobic. I
could not leave the bed, let alone the house.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Yeah, this was.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Two thousand and two, and my mom started bringing me
to see a bunch of specialists because nobody knew what
the hell was going on. I thought I was dying.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I had one doctor tell me it might be MS.
I had another doctor tell me it could be a
brain tumor. It was really interesting how low on the
totem pole anxiety was, which is I think an indictment
of our healthcare system and also like a reminder that like,
(40:29):
there's a lot we don't know about this, and I
think there's a lot now we do know that we
didn't know then, So which only added These potential diagnoses
only added to my anxiety because I was already a
fucking hypochondriac. R so finally one day I see a
neurologist and he says, kid, this is called anxiety. You're
(40:56):
having like a quarter life crisis, That's what this is.
And he said, are there any big things happening in
your life? And I said, well, no, not really. And
then I started to think about it, and I was like, oh,
my god, my mom just moved out of my childhood home,
which there's a lot of good and painful memories to
(41:20):
leave behind in that place about my childhood, you know,
my parents. I was about to travel to Australia to
leave home for the first time in my life by myself,
go across the world to study abroad. I was one
year away from graduating college and being on my own
(41:41):
and having to be an adult, and so, of course, yeah,
all of these things were converging at once. I also,
and I say this because I think it's important to
talk about, I had a negative experience taking a drug
in college. I smoked what I thought was marijuana, It
(42:03):
was hash and I do think that it had a
chemical effect ye where and by the way, I openly
talk about the fact that like I will smoke pot
when I'm dealing with anxiety to actually calm myself down.
So it's not like I'm against these things, but I
think that it's important to understand that there are many
(42:26):
ways that it can come out and present itself. Yeah,
for me, that was the way it presented itself. Having
said that, anxiety was always there, but like you, I
just gave into it so much that I didn't see
it was actually taking over me. I compare anxiety to
the character of Venom from Spider Man, where it's like,
(42:49):
you know, you think he's an ally until he turns
on you. And actually, I think that the most profound
work that's been done in any form of entertainment with
regard to this issue is Inside Out Too Orange?
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Who made the console orange? Do I look orange? Orange?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Is not my color?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
On me?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Hello, everybody, I'm anxiety. I'm one of Riley's new emotions
and we are just super jazzed to be here. Where
can I put myself?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
It is such a brilliant way to illustrate the effects
of this thing, because I used to describe it and
my parents didn't understand what was going on with me.
My brothers couldn't understand what was they were They looked
at me like I was an alien, and I said
to them, you don't understand. It's like I'm a prisoner
in my own fucking body. Yes, and I can't get out.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And when I saw that movie, it was so profound
because that's exactly what it was. It was like somebody
was at the control panel of my brain and they
took it. They hijacked the entire plane, and I couldn't
get out of it. And then through therapy, through medicine,
(44:02):
I was able to see light through the darkness. And
I will never not have anxiety, but I'm now able
to live with my anxiety and not let it take
over my life.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Well that's what I wanted to ask you about next.
Then that's the truth. We'll always have it, and we've
learned how to manage it. We're doing the work, and
that's great. And movies like Inside Out too. I mean,
it's so great for parents because it gives me a
language to talk to my son about anxiety, which you know,
in a way that makes sense to him. But do
you ever get exhausted just thinking about the fact that
(44:38):
we'll always have this? Because I do, and even though
I'm doing the work, I'm in therapy, I'm on medication.
I'm getting better. I've learned so much about it. I'm
still just like this is forever.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I do. And I often in those moments, and I
am starting to see it creep out in my own kids.
My niece and nephew have serious anxiety. In those moments
I see I start to actually think about how blessed
we are, because then I'm like, Okay, my grandparents who
were in the Holocaust had every reason to be anxiety
(45:16):
prone the rest of their lives and had to do
it without any medical support, without probably any diagnosis, and
so for the first time in the history of our species,
we actually have ways to combat it, and so I
feel relieved about that. I feel relieved that I have
(45:38):
the tools to deal with it that if I didn't
have these tools, I would probably be in an insane
asylum because it got that bad for me. And I
feel blessed that I have people like you and many
others who are now openly talking about it, not for nothing.
(46:00):
I think a part of it is that we as
a species have not evolved at the rate that our
technology is evolving.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yes, no, there are studies showing that.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yes, and you don't even need studies you just need
to look on and feel right. And when I'm and
I'm holding up my phone right now, but when I'm
constantly looking down at this device, I am absorbing information
at a faster rate than at any time in the
millennia that humans have been walking this planet. Yep, my brain,
(46:35):
your brain, the most brilliant minds on the planet are
not equipped to do this. We are not equipped to
handle this influx of non stop information, and it's mixed
with social media. And by the way, I'm not surprised
(46:58):
that you are constantly dealing withinnxiety because of the nature
of your work. Right you are having to literally go
to work and talk about chaos on a daily basis.
That is your job.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
My work is very triggering and it's been a huge
court of therapy trying to figure out do I have
to quit what I do to protect my mental health
because dealing in bad news all the time has the effect,
at least one my brain of making me think the
odds are bad news is going to happen to me
around every corner.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
And I think, I and that's not true. I think
that's why you're so fucking good at what you do,
because you may not know this, but you are a
very calming voice, your practical voice, and you're a very
no no, you are. You're one of the few journalists
doing it right now who have nuance to the way
(47:54):
you see things, and things aren't always black and white
and aren't always right and wrong. And when you can
sort of unload what's happening in real time and presenting
facts back to us, that is a very calming thing
(48:14):
for those of us who are constantly going down the
rabbit hole of oh my god, is this the end
of the world? Oh my god, does this mean that,
like the economy is going to crash, or that we're
going to deal with the end of democracy, or that
we're going to deal with World War three? And when
you have people who are giving you the information, who
(48:36):
are stewards of information, that is one of the most
important tasks in any workforce that there is, because there's
so much disinformation and misinformation that we need stewards like
you to do the heavy lifting. And because you deal
(48:57):
with the anxiety, you know how to present it to
us in a way that won't make us doubly anxious.
So it's it's brilliant what you do.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Thank you it's true, thank you, And I tried to
in addition to being calming, you know, I just I
try to lead with empathy too, which is you know
with you Oh well, but my anxiety, I think has
has created a lot of that, that empathy and a
desire for more of it. All right, we're going to
(49:38):
do a lightning round, but before that, you have you
have a new book out now. It's a children's book,
Picture Face Lizzie and the other you mentioned in God
We Trust to Tell Some. It's not a tell all.
It's a Tell Some which is coming out. That's a memoir.
Where'd you find the time to write two books? And
it's all of your jobs.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
The children's book was something that I had been wanting
to do for a long time during COVID. I don't
know if you remember, but I decided to pick up
my phone one day and start reading children's books to
kids at home during the early days of the pandemic,
because I felt a lot of parents were like me,
(50:20):
flailing and trying to figure out how to keep their
kids busy as they had to, you know, pay their
bills and do their work. And so I really started
to immerse myself in these books, and I was like,
I love this, I really want to do this, and it.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Was so great because like it's the voice of Oloff
reading your kids, you know, kids books, like every kid
I'm sure love So.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
It was it was really profound for them and for me.
And so I had been wanting to write something about
my kid's obsession with TikTok and our desire to protect
them from things like TikTok for as long as we can,
because again we talk about the fact that like these
(51:04):
things there it is, there's mosquito, These things have an effect.
And so the book is about this girl who wants
this doll that can do anything and everything that is
a digital has a digital element to it that all
of her friends have. And this girl has such an
active imagination and she's such a free spirit and she's
(51:26):
always doing something with her imagination. And her parents reluctantly
given and they say, yes, you can get a picture face, Lizzie,
but don't let it take away from who you are
and don't let it become your life. And it's about
her journey of getting the doll and finding a healthy
(51:48):
relationship with it that doesn't become all consuming. And it's
I think it's a really important message for kids.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
It's so great and parents.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
So can't wait for people to read that. And then
and gad we trust.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Is similarly about me dealing with my own anxiety and
putting it in a two hundred and fifty page book
about my journey, my life, the experiences that I've had,
and hopefully how those experiences may mirror some of the
things my readers have dealt with. Things like anxiety, things
(52:20):
like battling with my own inner demons, about faith, about
being a father, about being a good father, about marriage,
about all of it. So very excited for both, and
and I.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Can't wait for both. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
It'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Lightning rounds. These are quick ready, Yes, every celebrity has
a new brand, a tequila, a skincare line. What product
could you see yourself getting in business with?
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I've jokingly said this, but I mean it ice wine, right,
like it's perfect, right, It's perfect for me.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
You know, And I don't don't know a lot of
celebrity ice wines.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
No, the market has not been cornered. What will you
call it? Oh man, I haven't gotten that far yet.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Okay, all right, we'll work on it. We'll workshop.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, let's workshop it together.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
We're birthday twins and so we're both pisces. I don't
know if you care about astrology in your mind, what
does pisces mean to you?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Fluid? It means it means adaptable. It also to me
it means empathetic. I really think that we have cornered
the market on empathy, and I kind of love us
for it.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, I love that for us.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Every Pisces I know just is like leads with heart
and love. And you know, people call us wishy washy,
but I think we're actually just really thoughtful.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I like that. Okay, who's funnier you are? Ryannalds Ranalds.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Unfortunately Randals has like an acerbic, dark witch about him
that like is so funny and he's so real, and
it's just every time he says something, I laugh, I
have to work harder for laughs.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
His comedy it's very current, it's very now, it's very amable,
it's very it's extremely online. It's great. I mean, he's
he's so of the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
He really is. Yeah, we're working. We're working on something
right now that I can't wait for people to see.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
Oh, yay, okay, good Okay. This last part, I'm going
to describe three musicals to you. You have to tell
me which one's not real. Okay, okay, okay, love it. Okay.
Here's one called Ride the Cyclone. Members of the Saint
Cassian High School Chamber Choir of Uranium City, Saskatchewan, have
(54:47):
perished on a faulty roller coaster called the Cyclone. Each
tells their story in the form of song to win
the reward from a mechanical fortune teller, the chance to
return to life. Okay, that's one.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Okay, if that's a real musical, I don't want to
live in this world, but okay, go on.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
The second is called Me and My Dick. Me and
My Dick is a coming of age tale about a
boy with a very special relationship with his very best friend,
his Dick. Together, they face the trials of growing up, love, sex,
and high school. But these two best pals are in
for the adventure of a lifetime. Hey, that's Me and
My Dick.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
I'm so glad somebody adapted my first biography.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Go on, Okay. And the third one is Jonestown the musical. Jonestown.
The musical is told through the point of view of
Jim Jones's chief Lieutenant of the People's Temple. Working backwards
from that infamous day in nineteen seventy eight when Jones
instructed his congregation to drink a cyanide laced fruit punch.
Through multiple musical genres Vaudeville, Americana, gospel circus, Jonestown examines
(55:48):
the era that made it possible for a meglomaniac like
Jim Jones to attract so many loyal followers. Okay, Ride
the Cycle, Me and My Dick or Jonestown the Musical.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Okay, I'm going to work backwards here. I think Jones
sound the musical is a real thing. Okay, I can
imagine that, like that is something that somebody's written. I
don't want to believe Me and My Dick is a
real musical because it sounds so absurd and fucking crazy,
which is why, in fact, I think it is a
real musical. So I'm gonna go with Ride the Cyclone.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Okay, It's true. They're all real, They're all real.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
That's so depressing. That is just a really damning statement
about musical theater right now.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
Or is it awesome that this is a place.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
By the way is cut to a year from now,
and me and my dick is the new Hamilton, and
I'm eating my own words, and I'm like, I'll.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Tell you, I think it was written by Darren Cris
So it's.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
Not like, oh shit, Darren's a friend of mine. Well
so now I really guys, everybody goes see me in
my dick. It's a masterpiece.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Okay. The last question is the most important to me
because this is my spirituality, this is my culture, this
is my religion. When is iced coffee season?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I mean, do you not see what's in my hand?
Speaker 1 (57:10):
I see it? So when is it?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
It's all year round.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
That's the correct answer. That's the cart answer. It's all
around season.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
I do two black iced coffees a day and I
have no regrets, and I do mine unsweetened, and I
want it just into my veins.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I just need it same. I don't want to sip it.
It's not precious. I inject it. If I could inject it,
I would, but yeah I can't, so I'll have it iced. God,
we really are like we are the same. We're twining,
We're always twinning. We're the same.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
I love you. You're the best.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Next week on Off the Cup datelines Josh Mankowitz.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
When I took this job in February of ninety five,
I didn't have the slightest thought like, Okay, this is
the thing you're going to retire from. You didn't you know,
like what lasts thirty years in television?
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Nothing?
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Nothing.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Recent Choice Network. I'm Your Host Si Cupp.
Editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Sie Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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