October 25, 2025 • 30 mins
This week on Talkin’ Politics, S.E. chats with former White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre about why she left the Democratic Party, the rise of independent voters, her message to Dems, and her new book, “Independent: A Look Inside a Broken White House, Outside the Party Lines.” And later, do you hear that noise? If you’re in Washington, D.C., it’s probably the clang of construction and the end of an historic era as President Trump tears down the East Wing to make way for a 90,000 square foot ballroom. And S.E. has some thoughts!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Talking Politics.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
As you know, off the Cup is your break from
the news, but at Talking Politics we dive right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Today's guest is.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A former colleague, and boy is she in the news
right now. Her new book Independent, A Look Inside a
Broken White House Outside the Party Lines, is out now
and it's ruffling a lot of feathers. I also think
it's really bold and brave and courageous to come out
and say some of the things that she is. Karee
John Pierre was White House Press Secretary for President Joe Biden,
(00:34):
and earlier this year she announced she was leaving the
Democratic Party to become an independent. It's my pleasure to
welcome Karin John Pierre to Talking Politics.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thank you so much as seeing congratulations on this.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I really appreciate this type of platform to have different
type of conversations, especially today in the moment that we're in,
so thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You know, I appreciate it too, like I I appreciate
I appreciate me for creating this space, but also also
like iHeart for letting me, letting me, you know, create
spaces like this, have these different kinds of conversations where
we're not like on cable news three minutes. Then we
got to go to break and someone's yelling at you
(01:15):
and you know, misunderstanding you and twisting your words, and
I'm just I'm grateful too. So this is as much
a gift to me as it is as it is
to our guests.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Sometime to breathe, sometimes like a moment to breathe, let it,
let it play out a little bit, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And talk like human. You're a human. I know that
about you. You're a human.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I am human and so are you.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
So am I.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
We're humans. We're humans. We know each other.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
If listeners don't know, we we we used to be
at CNNA.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm still CNN.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Used to you know, come on to CNN to be
a commentator before you went I think before you went
to work on Kamala's first Well.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, it's a it's it's a little bit more like
there's a little back and forth. I was with MSNBC,
but before I'm s NBC, I did a lot of
CNN and then I you know, I was while I
was at MISBAC, I was with move On, then left
that to go do Biden and then during that general election,
I went.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
To be her chiefest staff because she was the running mate.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah it's the right, yeah that yeah, but there's but
you got it. It's all it's all connected. It's all connected.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
How are you? I?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You know, good question. I'm going to answer it. Honestly.
I'm tired.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I'm tired, but good I you know, I get to
go home tonight and see my little one, so I'm
very excited.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'll still be doing a lot of stuff this weekend.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
But you know, I think waking up in your own
bed and you know, getting your your your your world
or your.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Day started is always it always great. I've been I old.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Are your kids?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I only have one, she's eleven. She just started middle school.
She's fantastic. And I think this is my third a
Ford City of the week since like Monday.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, Yeah, it's a beast. I do know. It's
a beast.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
The book the book tour.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Is I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But and here's the thing, because you're on this book
tour and every everyone's asking the same question, which is,
how did you not know that Joe Biden was struggling
or incapacitated and somehow over the summer of twenty twenty four,
I'm really not interested in that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Ask and answer it because I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
How else to answer it.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm telling what I saw, my experience, and it is
and it is, you know, it is not what has
been reported, and so I wanted to, you know, give
a different, different way of looking at what I saw
and you and.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You have and that's and that's what's It's done. It's done.
It's done.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's done.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We move we can just move forward.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Move, we move forward, we can just for yes, let's
look at the moment that we're in right now, which
is pretty scary.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But I'm good. This is your show, so I'm gonna
let you.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, but I want to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think leaving a party is a big deal. I
know because I've done it. I've done it too, and
it's painful, it's disorienting, it's demoralizing, it's scary, it's all
the things, and it's it's super scary to say critical
things of the party you once loved, maybe still love
in a way a party you gave, I know, literal blood,
(04:23):
sweat and tears, because so did I. It's incredibly scary
to start criticizing people, you know, people you admired, people
you worked for, to criticize ideas and strategies and policies
and people. I know what that's like, and I think
it's really hard, it's really brave. I want to know
how and when you decided to do this yes night,
(04:43):
right with the party.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Look, I'm now a private citizen. This is the first
time in many years that I'm not talking for anyone
that I'm not you know, I'm not you know, part
of an opparatus, a political apparatus, if you will, And
as a private citizen, I felt like I needed to
make a decision for myself, and to be quite honest,
(05:06):
it's been.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
A long time coming.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
But what really triggered it, honestly to finally say the
idea was there, but to finally say I'm going to
do this is when I left the White House and
what I was experiences. I was minding my business, trying
to be a citizen again, trying to take care of
my kid, my family, doing me, if you will, and
I was going I was traveling at the airport, at
(05:31):
the supermarket, the coffee shop, and people were coming up
to me. Obviously I was the White House Press Secretary,
So I was recognizable to people.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And they would say to me, what are we going
to do? What is happening?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Why is the Democratic Party not ready? Like why are
they not showing fight? Why are they not showing teeth?
And then I thought to myself, Oh, this is really interesting.
And then there were things that were happening where where
members of the Democratic Party were just saying things that
bothered me as a black woman, like a black queer.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Woman, I don't want to be thrown under the bus.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I don't want people to feel as it were to
seem to it made it sound like, hey, this didn't
poll test well, so we're not going to we're going
to throw this community the under the bus.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And as a black woman, as we are the backbone of.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
The Democratic Party, we are the ones that are on
the front lines, and I do think we've been taking
for granted.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So there were things like that.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
That were happening, and you know, it was shocking for
me to see that Democratic senators were just rubber stamping
Trump appointees nominees when when they it's like giving away
your power, if you will, why are you giving you know?
Project twenty twenty five. You know what they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know this is going to be a lot worse
than the first time around.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So why are you throwing away your power? And so
it made me think, Okay, what am I going to
do to have a voice in this moment and to
push the conversation. Oh I had this thought a while
ago to become an independent because I felt these things
inside of me and I felt that I needed to
do something.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So honestly, s see, the book is.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
About starting a conversation because the independent piece is very nuanced. Right,
I'm not saying a third party. I am more saying
I want to be an independent thinker. And you know what,
you're going to have to work for my vote. There's
an assumption that you will have my vote. Democratic Party, No,
not anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And you know this.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
In doing campaigns and politics the last thirty sixty days,
who do they focus on the independence? And so there's
that piece of it too, and right now, in this moment,
taking it up a thirty thousand foot view, we need
a two party system for our democracy to work. The
two party system is not working right now. Our democracy
is hanging by a thread. That's problematic to me. That's
(07:58):
scary to me. You have independent millions of independence. I'm
not the only one. So a lot of young people
are becoming independents and they can't actually participate in the system.
The system is fundamentally broken and we have to do something.
So this is my part. And you know, if you're
starting a conversation, that means people are talking, and I
think that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
And I'm happy to take hard questions. I'm happy to whatever.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I'm fine, I'm happy to whatever ruffle some feathers that
that doesn't scare me.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And so this is what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, I struggled with this for a long time.
I'm I'm still conservative.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like people thought when I started like criticizing Trump or
you know, Republicans, that I was like moving to the left.
I was, I'm critical of him because he's not conservative
enough for me, and he's changed what that means, just
like I'm sure you're still progressive.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh yeah, that even changed.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, right, I'm aligned with the Democratic Party ideology. I'm
just critiquing them not meeting the moment, and for me,
this is the way for them to for me to
push for them to meet the moment, and I'm also
speaking for millions of people who feel this way totally.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean the the rise in registered voters who are
unaffiliated with either major party. It's grown at nine points
since two thousand and the numbers of both Republican and
Democrat affiliate affiliated voters are dropping.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And it's because I think a.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Lot of people think neither party is solving problems, and
they think that both parties are purity testing both candidates
and voters. And if you're not all in this, you're
not conserned. You know, you're not Republican enough. If you're
not all in this, you're not a pive Democrat. And
I think people are mad about that.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Look, we are in a time of politics and I
talk about this in my book where it's so partisan
that we're not listening to each other. Because my book,
too is inspirational, it's hopeful, there's all of that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yes, I criticize, and I you know, shed like to.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Something that a lot of people are saying quietly, just
not out loud. But it is so partisan, and I
think this is that's why we got to where we
are today, because we're not talking to each other, and
so that is that is that is such a problem,
and then with that comes hatred. With that comes to
lack of understanding, with that kind of a resentment, and
(10:23):
you lose that values, you lose the moral compass because
we're all stuck in our corners. And I think that's
why there is a horizon independence, because they're like, Okay,
I can't with you, I can't with you. Young people
are like you one actually is talking to me at
all directly, And so.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It's become a real issue.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And let's I forget there's misinformation disinformation, Yes, there.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Is, Like we all have to be our own fact checkers.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
There's so much going on that's landing on at the
feet of the voter right now.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I think if you're looking at you know
what both parties need to do to keep or win
back voters for midterms, but also pitching head to twenty
twenty eight, I think you have to you have to
figure out some things that maybe didn't work for Democrats
in twenty twenty four. And my diagnosis of the election
(11:14):
has been consistent and simple.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Democrats lost because they told.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Voters that they were wrong about how they felt on
the top three major issues.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
They told voters.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
The economy was great when they didn't feel it. They
told voters that crime was down when they felt unsafe.
And they told voters that immigration wasn't a crisis when
they could see it clearly was.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
But what's your take if you had.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
To say one thing, not Biden's age because they dealt
with that, not Kamala's quick you know, you know, quick
turnaround because that won't happen again in twenty two. What
was the thing you'd tell the party? Yeah, fix this
or you're going to lose.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
I think the communicating directly with people is a huge,
huge miss.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
And look, I have to take accountability for this as well.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I was speaking for the person who was the head
of the Democratic Party, so I don't, I don't I
own up to that. That was your job, it was
my job. But our messaging wasn't connecting. And there is
something to you know, And I say this in the book,
Get out of DC, folks, Let's get out of Washington.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And we look, and we look.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I talked about it at the podium, so I can't
even run away. I talked about the data and the polling. Oh,
consumer confidence is up.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And that doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, and all of that is true, I know.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's all true.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Did not connect It was to get here, Yeah, it
didn't get.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Here, and they weren't feeling it. And so there is
something too. And this is what I would tell Democrats
like you gotta like stay off social media, stay off
like stop looking at the poll tested you know lines,
and get out.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Of Washington, d C.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And we have to figure out a way to communicate
directly to the American people so that they feel seen.
And that also means going into red districts talking to Republicans,
you know it means, and also making sure that you're
not you're not discounting your base, right, You're not right,
you know, there's there's also an assumption, I think more
(13:11):
so we see it more so in the Democratic Party
in the Republican Party. There's something about the Republican Party.
They just line up, right, They're just lined up. The
Democratic Party, you can't let go, you can't discount your base.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
You know, there's there's.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
No The difference is I would say this a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Here you would Republican you would matter to me.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But you're exactly right, and I would talk about this
difference a lot, because I would say the difference between
Trump and Biden, or Trump and Kamala, Republicans and Democrats
is Democratic voters hold the Democratic Party to a much
higher standard and they demand accountability, and Republicans hold Donald
Trump to a much lower standard and demand no accountability.
So when Biden wasn't connecting with black voters and getting
(13:55):
the coalition that Obama had gotten, they were like, you don't,
we don't you don't just get us.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, you have to you still have to earn it
and hold yourself accountable to it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
That I think was the difference we saw more than
anything in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, and I and look, I think to your point,
people weren't feeling what we were doing, even you know, objectively,
we were doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
The President had.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Some historic wins that I think down the road, when
history looks back, it would it will remember him favorably
for some of the things that we got to do
on a bipartisan basis, and some of it wasn't right,
And that is something that I do believe he would
be remembered favorably for.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But in the moment, with misinformation disinformation. With politics being
so partisan, it is hard to break through.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And that means you got to you got to communicate
a lot more. You got to actually take it to
the people. You got to talk to them directly, and
that's how you build a coalition.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And I do agree in the differences of.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Both parties, but then that means the only is on leadership,
The illness is on that candidate to really try to
be in that community regularly more you know, you know,
more fiercely, like showing that fight, you know, and look,
I want to bring up.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Look, people could disagree with mom Donnie or agree.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I'm not talking about his policies, but I'm talking about
how he has effectively.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Engaged young people.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
And the you know, the way he did is the
way he communicates, the way you know, he went into
into like the communities of New York City, taking the train,
talking to people directly, having those hard conversations I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Young people, when young people really come out in a
primary in the way that they did.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
They came out in a primary, and then after that
he had to figure out how to build a coalition.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
But it is that directness that he had.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
It is like that really that you know, politics is
local and going into the community that I think is
a message that that Democrats can take on the national
level and see how you do that.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And he was refreshing to people, and so I think
that there's something there. And I'm not talking about his policies,
you know, people.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I know what I know, people are going to have
total people are gonna have to debate that and figure
that on their own.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But the actions that he took, it resonated. It just
did you know.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I was just going to bring him up because I'm
covering this election. I do a daily show on this
New York City election, So I was just going to
bring up them, Dohnny. And there are lots of good
lessons Democrats should take from his campaign. Some others they
should not because he's not a national you know, he's
not a candidate you could run nationally, you can you
can run him in New York City, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
But he did do He did a sort of an
old school ground game. It was like old school. It
wasn't anything new.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Actually it was exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It was like it was your quitt essential politics as locals.
So therefore or how do you do that? You got
to go into the community. And you know why, I
think he also did it, and I don't.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I don't know him. I've not never spoken to him
as far as I can remember.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
But he I think because he knew he didn't he
wasn't the incumbent, he wasn't a Cuomo. He didn't have
the name idea or the name recognition, so he knew, Okay,
I have to build a grassroots ground game. Which who
does that sound like to you? That sounds like Obama? Right?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Obama like that that.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Grassroots on the ground game. And who does who do
you bring into that when you do that?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Young people? And that's what he was able to do.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
And he was a great orator and was able to
really inspire people, and that's how he shocked folks.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I'm not comparing the two.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I'm just saying there is some there is some similarities
there that sound familiar and.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So totally we heard it all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, when we talk to voters, I haven't seen this
kind of enthusiasm since Obama.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Excited, they are inspired. When will you know someone will
point out, well, some of the things he's talking about
doing he probably won't get to do. They don't care
they don't even care because the way he's talking, they say,
he gets me. He's exciting, he's hopeful, he's positive, and
I just don't see a lot of candidates running like
that on him exactly.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And you know this, it's it's easy to campaign, hard
to govern. I mean that's something.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Though, and that'll be hard.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
That'll be hard, and that's something that you know, if
it turns out the way that we expected to, that's
something that I'm sure he has smart people around him
that will help him figure that all out. And that's
the hard part, right, And that's what the incumbency met like.
Once you become an incumbent, it's like, yeah, you made
it through. You won the election, and we've all we've
you know, Obama had to deal with that obviously, Joe
(18:46):
Biden and everybody has that. You know that that kind
of that to bear, and it is it's just, you know,
you can inspire, you can talk to people, you can
meet the moment, and then you have to actually govern,
and which.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Is do the work.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The work. It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well, I'm on this tour.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
That yeah, that's as far as you plays, as far
as the.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Plan no, no, because I'll say this, I I'm a
private citizen.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's been a while since I've been in this space.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I really want to be there for my family and
the people that I love and and just be very present.
As you know, being in the White House, it's just
so hard. You try to you try to have everything,
but it's a hard thing to do. But I honestly
want to try and be able to tell stories, tell
stories of people who voices aren't aren't being lifted up,
(19:40):
or who people didn't know about. Like I'll talk about
these two women that I learned when I was in
the White House, Ethel Pain and Alice Done Again, And
they were the two first black women to be part
of the White House Press Corps.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
We're talking about seventy five years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I can't even imagine as women being part of
the White House Press Corps and then women of color,
black women at that.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And they have an amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Story and I would love to tell that story. I'd
love to partner up with the production company.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And tell that story.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And so those are the things like I feel like
as being a first and breaking glass ceilings. There's so
many people before me who have incredible stories who people
haven't heard of or don't quite know.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
They're full the full breath of how they got to
where they got to.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
And so I hope that I continue to inspire people
that I hope I continue to be a voice for
people who feel like they don't have a voice right now.
And so I just you know, I'm going to figure
out how to do that. But I'm excited. I'm excited
for this book. I'm proud of this book. I hope
people give it a chance. It's there's a lot more
to it, and I do believe it will inspire folks
(20:46):
and give.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
People a roadmap.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
If you if you're interested in how to and how
to and how to do it and how to you know,
be meet the moment.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, I'm sure you'll get all those opportunities, and you
deserve them. And thanks so much for coming on Green
and good luck with the book to.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Our Thank you, Scie, thank you for the conversation. I
appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That was another great conversation. Thanks to Krinn. And you
can go buy her book. It's called Independent and it
covers both her time at the White House but also
the twenty twenty four election and after coming up after
the break, we'll get into my mini monologue, my hot
take of the week.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Don't go anywhere. Have you been to our nation's capital.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
If you have, I sure hope you got a chance
to visit the White House because part of it is
totally gone.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Now. That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
After President Trump promised he would not completely demolish the
East Wing in order to make room for a new ballroom,
he did just that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It's gone. It is gone, and the pictures are jar.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
The People's House is It's torn up, with an entire
side exposed to onlookers and tourists and cameras the world.
Dangling wires and shingles and beams and pipes are jutting
out into this airy vacuum where the East Wing used
to be. It's really it's really something to see, and
(22:25):
not in a good way. Now, Trump didn't ask anyone's
permission to take a wrecking ball to two hundred and
twenty three years of American history. I need to ask
my town for a permit to paint my front door,
but Trump just did it. Now. I've been lucky enough
to visit the White House a few times, and it's
incredibly humbling. It is full of so much rich history
(22:51):
and tradition, and honestly, when you walk through it really
helps tell the story of America itself. It's incredibly impressive,
it's intimidating, and it's it's a really great venue for
facilitating international diplomacy. As Michael Douglas's President Andrew Shepherd says
in The American President, the White House is the single
(23:14):
greatest home court advantage in the modern world. And President
Trump understands the value of first impressions, even and like
especially if they're not painting an accurate picture. You know,
he may have like put gold leaf in his New
York City bathrooms, but he also inflated the value of
his properties and his own net worth. Four years he
(23:34):
famously pretended to be his own spokesman to appear more established.
He has sold everything from quote luxury ties to luxury
home goods, most of which were made very cheaply in China. Okay,
so for Trump, forget if it's genuine or not. It
just has to look rich. So no one should be
surprised that on his second go round at president, he
(23:56):
decided the White House needed the Trump touch to Now,
He's not known for subtlety, and so Trump's already made
noticeable changes painting over fixtures in the oval office. This
like garish gold festooning the place with gold vases and
trophies and coasters. I mean, ugh, that's like Versailles. He
(24:17):
added this cheesy hall of presidents, like you might find
at an Atlantic city hotel. But he was sure to
put a picture of Joe Biden's auto pen where the
forty six president's portrait should be, because he's the pettiest,
smallest person on the planet. Well, and now he's planning
this new ballroom, much like the one he uses at
mar A Lago to host his corporate and political pals.
(24:41):
The new ballroom will cost two hundred and fifty million dollars,
and Trump insists it's being entirely funded by private donors.
But honestly, with his penchant for misleading about his own expenditures,
I guess we'll just have to take his word for it.
Trump is reveling in the construction, I mean construction. Here's
(25:03):
what he said at a Tuesday press conference, practically post coital,
like he just finished a big mac.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You hear that sound.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh, that's music to my ears.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I love that sound.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Other people don't like it.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
I love it, Josh.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me
of money.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
No, it's not hard to see why Trump looks at
the White House and sees money. He's used the Office
of the Presidency to rake in the cash, boosting his
personal network by a record three billion just since twenty
twenty four, you guys, in less than a year.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Three billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
That's mostly through a lucrative family crypto venture. But that's
not all He's spending America's money, like like, like.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
There's no tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
He's announced a new Arcite Trump, a structure that will
be built across from the Memorial to commemorate the country's
two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. We don't know how much
that's going to cost or who's going to pay for it.
He is refurbishing that four hundred million dollar Katari plane
that he was gifted in May, which to trick it
(26:16):
out like they're going to do, is going to cost
the taxpayers over a billion dollars. That's another billion with
a be Trump says he's donating that plane to his
Presidential Library Foundation. New York Times report this week says
Trump is asking the Justice Department to pay him personally
two hundred and thirty million dollars as a kind of
(26:39):
reparations for investigating him or in other words, for doing
their job two hundred and thirty million dollars in taxpayer money.
He is asking the Justice Department to give him personally.
This is all happening, I don't have to tell you.
While the government is shut down and costing taxpayers fifteen
bis billion dollars a week. Federal employees are literally lining
(27:04):
up for food donations. This is happening as Trump just
handed Argentina a twenty billion dollar bailout, while American farmers
are suffering under his dumb trade wars. And it's happening
while twenty two US states are either in a recession
(27:24):
or on the brink. Trump doesn't care because fleecing the
American people is just business as usual for him. Last year, Trump,
it was discovered, was charging more than a thousand bucks
a night on the taxpayer's credit card so that Secret
Service agents protecting his family could stay at Trump Hotels,
(27:47):
not a holiday inn, for one hundred and fifty nine
bucks a night, but over one thousand dollars to stay
at a Trump hotel after lying about the results of
the twenty twenty election, he fleeced his own supporters, encouraging
donations to help stop the steal, donations which he then
used to pay his own legal bills and for things
like Malania's stylist, from Golden Sneakers to Trump Bibles. He
(28:13):
will get his hands on your money anyway he can.
But I think Trump is stuck in the nineteen eighties,
both in terms of his gaudy interior design aesthetic and
his assumption of where the.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
American economy is today.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
He may learn in the midterms that greed isn't as
good as it was for Gordon Gecko when his voters
can't afford gas or groceries. Or I don't know, maybe
he's stuck in the seventeen eighties with this faux French
arc to Trump a nod to the extravagant court of
Luisas and Marie Antoinette, who's lavish spending while their people
(28:51):
starved prompted an actual revolution. So will Americans tire of
Trump's excess as they struggle to meet ba sick needs
While he shrugs and says, let them eat crypto.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Okay, that's it for talking politics.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you want to respond or have any ideas or
questions for me, please write us at Off the Cup
at gmail dot com. That's Off the Cup Cup with
two p's at gmail dot com and.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Maybe we'll read your note on the next show.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
That's it for me, See you next time, and don't
forget to watch Off the Cup. Go go listen to
Off the Cup and our Talking Coffee episode as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
If you want more, check out the other.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native Land pod.
For Off the Cup, I'm your host, se Cup. Editing
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me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and
review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe for
new episodes every Wednesday.
Welcome to Talking Politics.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
As you know, off the Cup is your break from
the news, but at Talking Politics we dive right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Today's guest is.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A former colleague, and boy is she in the news
right now. Her new book Independent, A Look Inside a
Broken White House Outside the Party Lines, is out now
and it's ruffling a lot of feathers. I also think
it's really bold and brave and courageous to come out
and say some of the things that she is. Karee
John Pierre was White House Press Secretary for President Joe Biden,
(00:34):
and earlier this year she announced she was leaving the
Democratic Party to become an independent. It's my pleasure to
welcome Karin John Pierre to Talking Politics.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Thank you so much as seeing congratulations on this.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I really appreciate this type of platform to have different
type of conversations, especially today in the moment that we're in,
so thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You know, I appreciate it too, like I I appreciate
I appreciate me for creating this space, but also also
like iHeart for letting me, letting me, you know, create
spaces like this, have these different kinds of conversations where
we're not like on cable news three minutes. Then we
got to go to break and someone's yelling at you
(01:15):
and you know, misunderstanding you and twisting your words, and
I'm just I'm grateful too. So this is as much
a gift to me as it is as it is
to our guests.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Sometime to breathe, sometimes like a moment to breathe, let it,
let it play out a little bit, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And talk like human. You're a human. I know that
about you. You're a human.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I am human and so are you.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
So am I.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
We're humans. We're humans. We know each other.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
If listeners don't know, we we we used to be
at CNNA.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm still CNN.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Used to you know, come on to CNN to be
a commentator before you went I think before you went
to work on Kamala's first Well.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, it's a it's it's a little bit more like
there's a little back and forth. I was with MSNBC,
but before I'm s NBC, I did a lot of
CNN and then I you know, I was while I
was at MISBAC, I was with move On, then left
that to go do Biden and then during that general election,
I went.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
To be her chiefest staff because she was the running mate.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah it's the right, yeah that yeah, but there's but
you got it. It's all it's all connected. It's all connected.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
How are you? I?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
You know, good question. I'm going to answer it. Honestly.
I'm tired.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
I'm tired, but good I you know, I get to
go home tonight and see my little one, so I'm
very excited.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'll still be doing a lot of stuff this weekend.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
But you know, I think waking up in your own
bed and you know, getting your your your your world
or your.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Day started is always it always great. I've been I old.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Are your kids?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I only have one, she's eleven. She just started middle school.
She's fantastic. And I think this is my third a
Ford City of the week since like Monday.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, Yeah, it's a beast. I do know. It's
a beast.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
The book the book tour.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Is I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But and here's the thing, because you're on this book
tour and every everyone's asking the same question, which is,
how did you not know that Joe Biden was struggling
or incapacitated and somehow over the summer of twenty twenty four,
I'm really not interested in that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Ask and answer it because I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
How else to answer it.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm telling what I saw, my experience, and it is
and it is, you know, it is not what has
been reported, and so I wanted to, you know, give
a different, different way of looking at what I saw
and you and.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You have and that's and that's what's It's done. It's done.
It's done.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's done.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We move we can just move forward.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Move, we move forward, we can just for yes, let's
look at the moment that we're in right now, which
is pretty scary.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
But I'm good. This is your show, so I'm gonna
let you.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, but I want to.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think leaving a party is a big deal. I
know because I've done it. I've done it too, and
it's painful, it's disorienting, it's demoralizing, it's scary, it's all
the things, and it's it's super scary to say critical
things of the party you once loved, maybe still love
in a way a party you gave, I know, literal blood,
(04:23):
sweat and tears, because so did I. It's incredibly scary
to start criticizing people, you know, people you admired, people
you worked for, to criticize ideas and strategies and policies
and people. I know what that's like, and I think
it's really hard, it's really brave. I want to know
how and when you decided to do this yes night,
(04:43):
right with the party.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Look, I'm now a private citizen. This is the first
time in many years that I'm not talking for anyone
that I'm not you know, I'm not you know, part
of an opparatus, a political apparatus, if you will, And
as a private citizen, I felt like I needed to
make a decision for myself, and to be quite honest,
(05:06):
it's been.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
A long time coming.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
But what really triggered it, honestly to finally say the
idea was there, but to finally say I'm going to
do this is when I left the White House and
what I was experiences. I was minding my business, trying
to be a citizen again, trying to take care of
my kid, my family, doing me, if you will, and
I was going I was traveling at the airport, at
(05:31):
the supermarket, the coffee shop, and people were coming up
to me. Obviously I was the White House Press Secretary,
So I was recognizable to people.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And they would say to me, what are we going
to do? What is happening?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Why is the Democratic Party not ready? Like why are
they not showing fight? Why are they not showing teeth?
And then I thought to myself, Oh, this is really interesting.
And then there were things that were happening where where
members of the Democratic Party were just saying things that
bothered me as a black woman, like a black queer.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Woman, I don't want to be thrown under the bus.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I don't want people to feel as it were to
seem to it made it sound like, hey, this didn't
poll test well, so we're not going to we're going
to throw this community the under the bus.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And as a black woman, as we are the backbone of.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
The Democratic Party, we are the ones that are on
the front lines, and I do think we've been taking
for granted.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So there were things like that.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
That were happening, and you know, it was shocking for
me to see that Democratic senators were just rubber stamping
Trump appointees nominees when when they it's like giving away
your power, if you will, why are you giving you know?
Project twenty twenty five. You know what they're going to do.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
You know this is going to be a lot worse
than the first time around.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
So why are you throwing away your power? And so
it made me think, Okay, what am I going to
do to have a voice in this moment and to
push the conversation. Oh I had this thought a while
ago to become an independent because I felt these things
inside of me and I felt that I needed to
do something.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
So honestly, s see, the book is.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
About starting a conversation because the independent piece is very nuanced. Right,
I'm not saying a third party. I am more saying
I want to be an independent thinker. And you know what,
you're going to have to work for my vote. There's
an assumption that you will have my vote. Democratic Party, No,
not anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And you know this.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
In doing campaigns and politics the last thirty sixty days,
who do they focus on the independence? And so there's
that piece of it too, and right now, in this moment,
taking it up a thirty thousand foot view, we need
a two party system for our democracy to work. The
two party system is not working right now. Our democracy
is hanging by a thread. That's problematic to me. That's
(07:58):
scary to me. You have independent millions of independence. I'm
not the only one. So a lot of young people
are becoming independents and they can't actually participate in the system.
The system is fundamentally broken and we have to do something.
So this is my part. And you know, if you're
starting a conversation, that means people are talking, and I
think that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
And I'm happy to take hard questions. I'm happy to whatever.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
I'm fine, I'm happy to whatever ruffle some feathers that
that doesn't scare me.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And so this is what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You know, I struggled with this for a long time.
I'm I'm still conservative.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like people thought when I started like criticizing Trump or
you know, Republicans, that I was like moving to the left.
I was, I'm critical of him because he's not conservative
enough for me, and he's changed what that means, just
like I'm sure you're still progressive.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Oh yeah, that even changed.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, right, I'm aligned with the Democratic Party ideology. I'm
just critiquing them not meeting the moment, and for me,
this is the way for them to for me to
push for them to meet the moment, and I'm also
speaking for millions of people who feel this way totally.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Oh totally.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I mean the the rise in registered voters who are
unaffiliated with either major party. It's grown at nine points
since two thousand and the numbers of both Republican and
Democrat affiliate affiliated voters are dropping.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And it's because I think a.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Lot of people think neither party is solving problems, and
they think that both parties are purity testing both candidates
and voters. And if you're not all in this, you're
not conserned. You know, you're not Republican enough. If you're
not all in this, you're not a pive Democrat. And
I think people are mad about that.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Look, we are in a time of politics and I
talk about this in my book where it's so partisan
that we're not listening to each other. Because my book,
too is inspirational, it's hopeful, there's all of that.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yes, I criticize, and I you know, shed like to.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Something that a lot of people are saying quietly, just
not out loud. But it is so partisan, and I
think this is that's why we got to where we
are today, because we're not talking to each other, and
so that is that is that is such a problem,
and then with that comes hatred. With that comes to
lack of understanding, with that kind of a resentment, and
(10:23):
you lose that values, you lose the moral compass because
we're all stuck in our corners. And I think that's
why there is a horizon independence, because they're like, Okay,
I can't with you, I can't with you. Young people
are like you one actually is talking to me at
all directly, And so.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It's become a real issue.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
And let's I forget there's misinformation disinformation, Yes, there.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Is, Like we all have to be our own fact checkers.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
There's so much going on that's landing on at the
feet of the voter right now.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, And I think if you're looking at you know
what both parties need to do to keep or win
back voters for midterms, but also pitching head to twenty
twenty eight, I think you have to you have to
figure out some things that maybe didn't work for Democrats
in twenty twenty four. And my diagnosis of the election
(11:14):
has been consistent and simple.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Democrats lost because they told.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Voters that they were wrong about how they felt on
the top three major issues.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
They told voters.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
The economy was great when they didn't feel it. They
told voters that crime was down when they felt unsafe.
And they told voters that immigration wasn't a crisis when
they could see it clearly was.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
But what's your take if you had.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
To say one thing, not Biden's age because they dealt
with that, not Kamala's quick you know, you know, quick
turnaround because that won't happen again in twenty two. What
was the thing you'd tell the party? Yeah, fix this
or you're going to lose.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
I think the communicating directly with people is a huge,
huge miss.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
And look, I have to take accountability for this as well.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
I was speaking for the person who was the head
of the Democratic Party, so I don't, I don't I
own up to that. That was your job, it was
my job. But our messaging wasn't connecting. And there is
something to you know, And I say this in the book,
Get out of DC, folks, Let's get out of Washington.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
And we look, and we look.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
I talked about it at the podium, so I can't
even run away. I talked about the data and the polling. Oh,
consumer confidence is up.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And that doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, and all of that is true, I know.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's all true.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Did not connect It was to get here, Yeah, it
didn't get.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Here, and they weren't feeling it. And so there is
something too. And this is what I would tell Democrats
like you gotta like stay off social media, stay off
like stop looking at the poll tested you know lines,
and get out.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Of Washington, d C.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And we have to figure out a way to communicate
directly to the American people so that they feel seen.
And that also means going into red districts talking to Republicans,
you know it means, and also making sure that you're
not you're not discounting your base, right, You're not right,
you know, there's there's also an assumption, I think more
(13:11):
so we see it more so in the Democratic Party
in the Republican Party. There's something about the Republican Party.
They just line up, right, They're just lined up. The
Democratic Party, you can't let go, you can't discount your base.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
You know, there's there's.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
No The difference is I would say this a lot.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Here you would Republican you would matter to me.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But you're exactly right, and I would talk about this
difference a lot, because I would say the difference between
Trump and Biden, or Trump and Kamala, Republicans and Democrats
is Democratic voters hold the Democratic Party to a much
higher standard and they demand accountability, and Republicans hold Donald
Trump to a much lower standard and demand no accountability.
So when Biden wasn't connecting with black voters and getting
(13:55):
the coalition that Obama had gotten, they were like, you don't,
we don't you don't just get us.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, you have to you still have to earn it
and hold yourself accountable to it.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
That I think was the difference we saw more than
anything in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, and I and look, I think to your point,
people weren't feeling what we were doing, even you know, objectively,
we were doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
The President had.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Some historic wins that I think down the road, when
history looks back, it would it will remember him favorably
for some of the things that we got to do
on a bipartisan basis, and some of it wasn't right,
And that is something that I do believe he would
be remembered favorably for.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But in the moment, with misinformation disinformation. With politics being
so partisan, it is hard to break through.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And that means you got to you got to communicate
a lot more. You got to actually take it to
the people. You got to talk to them directly, and
that's how you build a coalition.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And I do agree in the differences of.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Both parties, but then that means the only is on leadership,
The illness is on that candidate to really try to
be in that community regularly more you know, you know,
more fiercely, like showing that fight, you know, and look,
I want to bring up.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Look, people could disagree with mom Donnie or agree.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
I'm not talking about his policies, but I'm talking about
how he has effectively.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Engaged young people.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
And the you know, the way he did is the
way he communicates, the way you know, he went into
into like the communities of New York City, taking the train,
talking to people directly, having those hard conversations I mean.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Young people, when young people really come out in a
primary in the way that they did.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
They came out in a primary, and then after that
he had to figure out how to build a coalition.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
But it is that directness that he had.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
It is like that really that you know, politics is
local and going into the community that I think is
a message that that Democrats can take on the national
level and see how you do that.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And he was refreshing to people, and so I think
that there's something there. And I'm not talking about his policies,
you know, people.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I know what I know, people are going to have
total people are gonna have to debate that and figure
that on their own.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
But the actions that he took, it resonated. It just
did you know.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I was just going to bring him up because I'm
covering this election. I do a daily show on this
New York City election, So I was just going to
bring up them, Dohnny. And there are lots of good
lessons Democrats should take from his campaign. Some others they
should not because he's not a national you know, he's
not a candidate you could run nationally, you can you
can run him in New York City, we'll see.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
But he did do He did a sort of an
old school ground game. It was like old school. It
wasn't anything new.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Actually it was exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
It was like it was your quitt essential politics as locals.
So therefore or how do you do that? You got
to go into the community. And you know why, I
think he also did it, and I don't.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I don't know him. I've not never spoken to him
as far as I can remember.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
But he I think because he knew he didn't he
wasn't the incumbent, he wasn't a Cuomo. He didn't have
the name idea or the name recognition, so he knew, Okay,
I have to build a grassroots ground game. Which who
does that sound like to you? That sounds like Obama? Right?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Obama like that that.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Grassroots on the ground game. And who does who do
you bring into that when you do that?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Young people? And that's what he was able to do.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
And he was a great orator and was able to
really inspire people, and that's how he shocked folks.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
I'm not comparing the two.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
I'm just saying there is some there is some similarities
there that sound familiar and.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So totally we heard it all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, when we talk to voters, I haven't seen this
kind of enthusiasm since Obama.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Excited, they are inspired. When will you know someone will
point out, well, some of the things he's talking about
doing he probably won't get to do. They don't care
they don't even care because the way he's talking, they say,
he gets me. He's exciting, he's hopeful, he's positive, and
I just don't see a lot of candidates running like
that on him exactly.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And you know this, it's it's easy to campaign, hard
to govern. I mean that's something.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Though, and that'll be hard.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
That'll be hard, and that's something that you know, if
it turns out the way that we expected to, that's
something that I'm sure he has smart people around him
that will help him figure that all out. And that's
the hard part, right, And that's what the incumbency met like.
Once you become an incumbent, it's like, yeah, you made
it through. You won the election, and we've all we've
you know, Obama had to deal with that obviously, Joe
(18:46):
Biden and everybody has that. You know that that kind
of that to bear, and it is it's just, you know,
you can inspire, you can talk to people, you can
meet the moment, and then you have to actually govern,
and which.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Is do the work.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The work. It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
So what's next for you?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well, I'm on this tour.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
That yeah, that's as far as you plays, as far
as the.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Plan no, no, because I'll say this, I I'm a
private citizen.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
It's been a while since I've been in this space.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I really want to be there for my family and
the people that I love and and just be very present.
As you know, being in the White House, it's just
so hard. You try to you try to have everything,
but it's a hard thing to do. But I honestly
want to try and be able to tell stories, tell
stories of people who voices aren't aren't being lifted up,
(19:40):
or who people didn't know about. Like I'll talk about
these two women that I learned when I was in
the White House, Ethel Pain and Alice Done Again, And
they were the two first black women to be part
of the White House Press Corps.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
We're talking about seventy five years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
And I can't even imagine as women being part of
the White House Press Corps and then women of color,
black women at that.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And they have an amazing.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Story and I would love to tell that story. I'd
love to partner up with the production company.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
And tell that story.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
And so those are the things like I feel like
as being a first and breaking glass ceilings. There's so
many people before me who have incredible stories who people
haven't heard of or don't quite know.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
They're full the full breath of how they got to
where they got to.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
And so I hope that I continue to inspire people
that I hope I continue to be a voice for
people who feel like they don't have a voice right now.
And so I just you know, I'm going to figure
out how to do that. But I'm excited. I'm excited
for this book. I'm proud of this book. I hope
people give it a chance. It's there's a lot more
to it, and I do believe it will inspire folks
(20:46):
and give.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
People a roadmap.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
If you if you're interested in how to and how
to and how to do it and how to you know,
be meet the moment.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well, I'm sure you'll get all those opportunities, and you
deserve them. And thanks so much for coming on Green
and good luck with the book to.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Our Thank you, Scie, thank you for the conversation. I
appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That was another great conversation. Thanks to Krinn. And you
can go buy her book. It's called Independent and it
covers both her time at the White House but also
the twenty twenty four election and after coming up after
the break, we'll get into my mini monologue, my hot
take of the week.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Don't go anywhere. Have you been to our nation's capital.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
If you have, I sure hope you got a chance
to visit the White House because part of it is
totally gone.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Now. That's right.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
After President Trump promised he would not completely demolish the
East Wing in order to make room for a new ballroom,
he did just that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It's gone. It is gone, and the pictures are jar.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
The People's House is It's torn up, with an entire
side exposed to onlookers and tourists and cameras the world.
Dangling wires and shingles and beams and pipes are jutting
out into this airy vacuum where the East Wing used
to be. It's really it's really something to see, and
(22:25):
not in a good way. Now, Trump didn't ask anyone's
permission to take a wrecking ball to two hundred and
twenty three years of American history. I need to ask
my town for a permit to paint my front door,
but Trump just did it. Now. I've been lucky enough
to visit the White House a few times, and it's
incredibly humbling. It is full of so much rich history
(22:51):
and tradition, and honestly, when you walk through it really
helps tell the story of America itself. It's incredibly impressive,
it's intimidating, and it's it's a really great venue for
facilitating international diplomacy. As Michael Douglas's President Andrew Shepherd says
in The American President, the White House is the single
(23:14):
greatest home court advantage in the modern world. And President
Trump understands the value of first impressions, even and like
especially if they're not painting an accurate picture. You know,
he may have like put gold leaf in his New
York City bathrooms, but he also inflated the value of
his properties and his own net worth. Four years he
(23:34):
famously pretended to be his own spokesman to appear more established.
He has sold everything from quote luxury ties to luxury
home goods, most of which were made very cheaply in China. Okay,
so for Trump, forget if it's genuine or not. It
just has to look rich. So no one should be
surprised that on his second go round at president, he
(23:56):
decided the White House needed the Trump touch to Now,
He's not known for subtlety, and so Trump's already made
noticeable changes painting over fixtures in the oval office. This
like garish gold festooning the place with gold vases and
trophies and coasters. I mean, ugh, that's like Versailles. He
(24:17):
added this cheesy hall of presidents, like you might find
at an Atlantic city hotel. But he was sure to
put a picture of Joe Biden's auto pen where the
forty six president's portrait should be, because he's the pettiest,
smallest person on the planet. Well, and now he's planning
this new ballroom, much like the one he uses at
mar A Lago to host his corporate and political pals.
(24:41):
The new ballroom will cost two hundred and fifty million dollars,
and Trump insists it's being entirely funded by private donors.
But honestly, with his penchant for misleading about his own expenditures,
I guess we'll just have to take his word for it.
Trump is reveling in the construction, I mean construction. Here's
(25:03):
what he said at a Tuesday press conference, practically post coital,
like he just finished a big mac.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
You hear that sound.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh, that's music to my ears.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I love that sound.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Other people don't like it.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
I love it, Josh.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me
of money.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
No, it's not hard to see why Trump looks at
the White House and sees money. He's used the Office
of the Presidency to rake in the cash, boosting his
personal network by a record three billion just since twenty
twenty four, you guys, in less than a year.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Three billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
That's mostly through a lucrative family crypto venture. But that's
not all He's spending America's money, like like, like.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
There's no tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
He's announced a new Arcite Trump, a structure that will
be built across from the Memorial to commemorate the country's
two hundred and fiftieth anniversary. We don't know how much
that's going to cost or who's going to pay for it.
He is refurbishing that four hundred million dollar Katari plane
that he was gifted in May, which to trick it
(26:16):
out like they're going to do, is going to cost
the taxpayers over a billion dollars. That's another billion with
a be Trump says he's donating that plane to his
Presidential Library Foundation. New York Times report this week says
Trump is asking the Justice Department to pay him personally
two hundred and thirty million dollars as a kind of
(26:39):
reparations for investigating him or in other words, for doing
their job two hundred and thirty million dollars in taxpayer money.
He is asking the Justice Department to give him personally.
This is all happening, I don't have to tell you.
While the government is shut down and costing taxpayers fifteen
bis billion dollars a week. Federal employees are literally lining
(27:04):
up for food donations. This is happening as Trump just
handed Argentina a twenty billion dollar bailout, while American farmers
are suffering under his dumb trade wars. And it's happening
while twenty two US states are either in a recession
(27:24):
or on the brink. Trump doesn't care because fleecing the
American people is just business as usual for him. Last year, Trump,
it was discovered, was charging more than a thousand bucks
a night on the taxpayer's credit card so that Secret
Service agents protecting his family could stay at Trump Hotels,
(27:47):
not a holiday inn, for one hundred and fifty nine
bucks a night, but over one thousand dollars to stay
at a Trump hotel after lying about the results of
the twenty twenty election, he fleeced his own supporters, encouraging
donations to help stop the steal, donations which he then
used to pay his own legal bills and for things
like Malania's stylist, from Golden Sneakers to Trump Bibles. He
(28:13):
will get his hands on your money anyway he can.
But I think Trump is stuck in the nineteen eighties,
both in terms of his gaudy interior design aesthetic and
his assumption of where the.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
American economy is today.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
He may learn in the midterms that greed isn't as
good as it was for Gordon Gecko when his voters
can't afford gas or groceries. Or I don't know, maybe
he's stuck in the seventeen eighties with this faux French
arc to Trump a nod to the extravagant court of
Luisas and Marie Antoinette, who's lavish spending while their people
(28:51):
starved prompted an actual revolution. So will Americans tire of
Trump's excess as they struggle to meet ba sick needs
While he shrugs and says, let them eat crypto.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Okay, that's it for talking politics.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
If you want to respond or have any ideas or
questions for me, please write us at Off the Cup
at gmail dot com. That's Off the Cup Cup with
two p's at gmail dot com and.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Maybe we'll read your note on the next show.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
That's it for me, See you next time, and don't
forget to watch Off the Cup. Go go listen to
Off the Cup and our Talking Coffee episode as well.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
If you want more, check out the other.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native Land pod.
For Off the Cup, I'm your host, se Cup. Editing
and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are
me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and
review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe for
new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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