Mika Brzezinski knows her value

This week, S.E. goes behind the headlines, the camera, and the 5am call time with Mika Brzezinski. The co-host of MSNBC's Morning Joe and founder of the Know Your Value Initiative, Mika talks about her 'rough around the edges' upbringing with her artist mom and DC-insider dad where evenings might have mixed foreign dignitaries and the Pope with sawdust and chainsaws. She also shares her career journey, including the challenges women face in media, the importance of bringing others up, and the mental health challenges of covering the relentless trauma of the news cycle. Also stay tuned for a fun lightning round where a surprise guest shows up!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
You got to really want to work into this business
because you have to work some really bad hours, and
I've worked all of them.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
So we have.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Avoided having news people on the show, and that's only
because the news is my business, and as you know,
this is meant to be a break from all of that.
Speaking of don't forget to check out our new pod
within a pod talking politics, where I do get into
all the news of the week. But for Off the Cup,
I was thrilled to make an exception for someone pretty

(00:37):
special today and we'll talk about the news, but there's
so much more I want to dig into with her,
because very few people know what the women of this
business know, the experience that we have from the corporate
side of things, from the way we're treated by bosses,
the way we're treated by male colleagues, the way we're
treated by female colleagues, the way we're treated by our audiences.

(01:00):
And you have to reach a certain level of success
to know it all. And once you do, once you're
in a position where you know it all, you've experienced
all the things, it'd be really easy to hold on
to all of that knowledge, keep it for yourself so
that you can maintain your position, your power, And frankly,
that's what most people do. But today's guest got to

(01:21):
that perch and decided to share it all with the
women around her, the women coming up behind her, the
women next to her. And it's really important because the
women in this business get their power from other women.
It is not actually from the men, even if the
men are in charge. Because when other women empower each other,
that's a signal to everyone else that were valuable.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
And were important.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
And it's just as true that when women hold each
other down, we all lose. I've been on the receiving
end of both. Every woman in this business have they've
been lifted up, they've been held down. And I don't
know another woman in this business who has an experience
a little of everything. But few in this business know
more about navigating these tricky waters and knowing our value

(02:07):
than today's guest. She's the co host of MSNBC's long
running morning show Morning Joe. She's founder of the Know
Your Value initiative, which empowers women to challenge gender and
age norms in work and in life. She's a longtime journalist.
She's a published author. Welcome to Off the Cop Mika Brazinski.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Oh my gosh, are you making me cry? Thank you?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, you've been that person I'll never forget. I was
auditioning for the View, which we do not ever need
to discuss, And so is Nicole Wallace, who is at MSNBC.
I was at CNN, but Nicole and I knew each other.
We were totally friendly. And she had a dress and
a dry cleaning bag that she was going to wear
for this audition side dress. Yeah, and said, this is
Meka's dress. She told me I have to wear this one.

(02:50):
This is the one that's going to make me look
the best. And you know Casey Hunt, I work with
at CNN, She's always talked about how much of a
mentor you were to her. When this repetation is real,
it follows you around, It follows you around, and everyone
and everyone gets to know it about you.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, I wow, I'm I've always felt so blessed to
have a family that has sort of helped me at
times when I was not educable and difficult. And I
remember when I negotiated my first contract, how badly I did,

(03:28):
and I thought my gosh, my mother and my father
are multi lingual. They made sure we all were educated.
They've taken us around the world. They've done everything they
can to launch us. And if I'm having trouble with this,
my lord, what about the women who may not have
the axes, who may not grow up in the big cities,
who may not have the you know, quote education that's whatever.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
And I thought to myself, this is hard for me.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm going to have to figure out how to and
I don't don't think the word is comp and sate,
but I want to give back. I want to say
thank you every time I can. And the way to
do that is to pay it forward, one person at
a time. I mean, it's one thing to give some
money to something. It's another thing to spend time with
someone and to get on the phone for them and

(04:18):
to actually, like maybe even invest in them, because that's
the powerful message of you belong. And I remember when
I got my first actual raise that I fought for,
that gave me parody with my male counterparts. I was
never better on television than that first day with the

(04:39):
raise to pay And I realized what a difference being
validated in every way meant and I wanted to put
that into words for others.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, well, and I think that's the currency that matters,
because there are things you can't buy in this industry.
You either have to earn or someone has to help
you get there. And when someone vouches for you on
the phone, or when someone opens a door for you
or gives you knowledge that you earned the hard way,
and then you pass it on to someone who could

(05:09):
really help a little earlier. I mean, that's the kind
of stuff that makes such a huge difference.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well in this business.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Also, the other way to and you've done it, I've
followed your career is to find your own way, make
up something, create something like.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
There are no rules.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
And I think one of the things that I noticed
about women, especially in my generation you're a little younger,
is where we follow the rules. We stay in the box,
and that that's we're not supposed to do that, so
we don't.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
No.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
I've been taught break the rules, don't ask for permission,
surprise people, make it up, do it yourself. Chances are
you might be onto something, and if not, you put
it in the trash heap of media history and make
something else up.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
And move on. Yeah, yeah, it's scary. You're right, I
have been.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I've had to be encouraged to do that because actually,
like you, I'm a rule follower and I've always liked
working inside corporate media with bosses and you know, a.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Legal team behind me.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
And well, yeah, going it alone is scary, but it's
also incredibly rewarding.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, be your own startup, and it is in these days.
I will say it's a little bit it is scary
to go it alone. But I guess my point is
is that there's not just one way to do things. No,
and a lot of these jobs in TV were always
sitting in someone else's seat. And what I like about

(06:36):
Mourning Joe and then Know Your Value is we created
the table, the seat, we said in that's mine.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
I made it.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah right, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's not I'm not filling in for someone else or
trying to get a job that so and so has.
And in the Know Your Value world, whether it's events
that we're doing in this country or globally, or content
that we're making like whom and I are going to
start a show called Know Your Value Now and may
do a show on money. I mean, we're just being

(07:07):
entrepreneurial and trying new things and seeing what works and
it's fun and if it doesn't, that's okay too.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
I want to I want There's so much I want
to get into, but I want to share some of
I mean, I've been helped a lot in my career too,
but I've also been on the receiving end of some
wild sabotage attempts, and they're like wild, yeah, and I
think sometimes sharing some of those stories it can be
helpful too, not just the stories where we're where we're
great and helping other women, but where we've been like shived.

(07:40):
Can you think of a time coming up and you
don't have to name names, although you can where someone
really tried to get in your way and you could
see it happening. You could see this person trying to
take you down kind of for for no reason.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
So you're talking about in the media or like, no,
like in the business, okay, because I've got a lot
of options here.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I definitely have seen it in the business. Like I
think naming names would actually be a gift to this person.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah, yeah, so I won't.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
But yeah, I've seen people do like entire shows just
freaking laying me to waste, and I'm like, wow, I
don't even understand how you like, you really like being
that mean.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
I look at it and I'm in awe of that.
I can't I get like.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
To live off being cruel, to being mean, to being
like mad, to being shocked, to like taking one down.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
I am at a loss.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
I norvel to an extent because I'm just like, what
the is that? Like, what the if is that? And
so it doesn't really hurt. I mean, I'm fifty eight,
it doesn't hurt as as it used to. So I've
had that and I just you know what you do?
You just let it go by. It goes away. It's
like in the ether, it's favor it's TV. There's so

(09:16):
many of us, it goes away. Yeah, I will, I
will say the one. There are a few that hurt badly,
and one that hurt especially badly, and one that was
just freaking hysterical to me, and then the President tweeted
about me my tweeting about a bleeding badly from a facelift.
I think that was the one that was like the

(09:38):
biggest misunderstanding out there because I thought it was hilarious, okay,
and I tweeted back the back of a Cheerios box
that said made for tiny hands. You know, that was
pretty good, you know. But the weekend after that happened.
Joe and I I think we went to Nantucket for
the weekend. Such a nice weekend, but the entire world

(10:02):
was coming up to me and going, oh my god,
I'm so sorry, And I kept thinking, are you talking
about a family member that I recently lost? Like they
were approaching me as if that, like my world had ended,
and I kept having to go, what am I? I

(10:22):
Is this real? Like I'm good, you go, it's I'm
really I wanted to like scream from the mountaintops. I'm
so fine, like this global this thing, I mean, remember
we're talking about around the world and I had to
go on the air and I was like, you guys,
I'm okay. I thought it was funny. The thing is
that no one else does, so I guess there's a
problem there, right, a disconnect, But I thought it was funny.

(10:45):
I was like facetiming my friends the day after. So,
I mean, I'm just not I'm not that stuff doesn't.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Hurt me easily injured, but what about someone like behind
the scenes, maybe you know when you're coming up, Like
I remember I was at I was at Fox coming
up and there was a woman in an anchor chair
who was very insecure, very paranoid. She'd lock the makeup
door so that like right before my head I couldn't
get in it. She'd like run to run to Roger

(11:14):
and be like, you can't hire these young women. Like
we all heard that she was doing this, and I
also didn't take it very personally.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
I thought it was very sad, like that this.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Woman must be incredibly paranoid about her position in this place,
which I understood because it cultivated that kind of fear
and paranoia at Fox.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
But that kind of thing happens, it does the time.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
It does not exist on the set of Morning Show
or any productions that I'm involved with. I like make
sure that we I mean, this is I agree with
you about this, this behavior that happens. And it is
a culture. It's kind of like a culture.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, it's almost got to cultivate it.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
Yes, say culture.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
I reject I haven't seen it in so long because
it is not in my world and there is not
one woman in my world on our show in the
know your value community that could even fathom behaving that way,
and that is the way I want the world to be.
But that does exist, and I can see how it
exists at certain networks especially, and it's nasty and it's

(12:23):
wrong and it's not the way. It's not where we
should be.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
At this point.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
But back to there was another situation, and again I
don't want to give people material to run with, but
I did something really dumb a couple of years ago.
I said something I didn't completely understand, and I was
getting dragged down on Twitter and it was getting really

(12:47):
bad and the news our news president was Phil Griffin
at the time, and he was getting calls and I
was I couldn't believe it because it was a moment
in which you either know the person or you don't.
You know whether she meant it in the terrible way
that it was said that or not. And it was

(13:09):
obvious I didn't mean it. And I will say, Essie
Joe and I like, you're like an icon to us
because you were one of the only people. I mean,
there were a lot of people that I thought I
would hear from, and so this was a moment that
hurt because there were just a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Oh, I know what you're talking about now, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
I thought I would hear from I thought I would
hear some people that I offend, yeah, you know, or
even just guys. It's not her where her heart is
at all. She's not a you know whatever the word was,
and a baby and so and but you just tweeted hey,

(13:51):
got I think you literally tweeted you with the only one.
But it started the change where you tweeted guys. I
don't know where that well, but I really don't think
that's what she meant at all.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
And it was very simple say, very simple to say,
but it did feel important because I saw the pile
up and I don't love a pile up, but I
really don't like an intellectually dishonest pile up.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Exactly what was happening.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Was dishonest, and it was it was very actively trying
to turn this into a moment that it wasn't. And
I didn't think that was fair, and I you know,
we didn't know each other.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
No at all, but like it didn't matter the blue.
I just didn't like it.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I didn't like it, and it cost me nothing to
come to your defense and I saw no one else
doing it, and I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Weird.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Well, first of all, I thank you, and I just
remember it was very invalidating that moment, and what you
did was so validating. Just one person got it, and
a person who's happened to be a woman in television.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
It meant so much to me.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
But it was what I will say, that was a fair,
very painful situation to be misunderstood like that sucks Donald
Trump tweet thing everyone misunderstanding it, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
For some reason, that was wildly hilarious to me.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, yeah, that personally, Yeah, but this was like, oh
my gosh, and this was.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
An attack on your character.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
It was an unfair attack on your character, and that
it's so hurtful to be misunderstood in today's world that
goes viral. It's really hard to put the toothpaste back
in the tube once that happens, and you just feel like, well,
now my story is out of my control. Yeah, and
that's really tough, especially when you've built such a good reputation,

(15:34):
you know, and you feel like people know you and
know who you are and should give you a little
grace and benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
When it doesn't happen, it's really disorienting.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
And there's not a lot of grace out there.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
All right, So there's so much I want to do,
But first I always like to start with, what kind
of kid?

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Were you?

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Terrible? My mother says I was very difficult to raise.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
That's literally what she would tell people, like very and
as a really hyperactive and very ADHD A d D.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
I had terrible learning problems.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I was.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Socially awkward. And it wasn't like I didn't like party.
It was like a party girl, because no one would
party with me.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
I like just not.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
I had no group.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
I just sort of floated around a little not not
not a little weird, but kind of on my own.
And I was extremely into nature and animals and like
I would ride my I had a crazy horse that
we kept in McLean, Virginia in a in a stable
that my mother and my brothers and I built, which
was not very star and I had to carry the

(17:01):
water from the house down to the horse.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I'd get up really early, but I was really into it,
and I would go to school smelling like horses and
really messy hair. Didn't wash it much. Like it's a
strange child. And and I mean I became really into
makeup in my teens, like really into it, and I
wear like blue eyeshadow and eyelashes. And then I had

(17:27):
the bearriposet hair and my parents got so mad at
me about this. I had the comb in the back
pocket with the Jeordash jeans. Yes, I think you're too
young for this.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Maybe I'm kidding, okay, And.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
So my parents got so mad that at one point
my dad and mom physically dragged me and threw me
into the beth and they poured water over me to
wash everything off and ruin my hair, and they were like,
this has to stop. We're hosing you down. And it
actually happened, but it was half humorous, half not. But

(18:02):
they were making a point like you got to start
all over again, because yeah, you can't.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
You're raising a harlot. You can't go.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
From weird, greasy hair girl to like what is this? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
So, and I always I wanted to look like beauty queens,
and yeah, I went through a whole stage of that
with the red lipstick and big hair and oh if
you went into my.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
First local news stuff.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Oh the thing is I never could, So I always
looked like sort of like a beauty queen that had
had a really rough night, you know, like I never actually.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
Could do it.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
And so it took me to like I was like forty,
to realize I just need to look like me, give.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
That up, Give it up.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yeah, it's never going to happen.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
For people who don't know. You grew up in a
very unique set of circumstances. So who's Who's dad?

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Who's mom? My dad?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Okay, dad is speaking of Brazinski and he was the
national security advisor for President Carter and refugee from Poland
to Canada to America, so very interesting outlook. My parents
were both refugees. My mother, Emily Benish, who was a

(19:17):
grand niece of Edward Benish, who was the leader of Czechoslovakia,
also came to America on a massive boat that was
hit by a torpedo in the middle of World War Two.
The torpedo did not explode. She was put off into
a life raft and finally made her a way to
the United States, and my dad went to Harvard, my

(19:39):
mom went to Wellesley. They met and they were married
for sixty four years.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yes, incredible, and I know a bunch of people who
grew up in the DMV because of politics. Some loved it,
others really didn't. What was it like for you?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Well, what was fascinating was that my mother was a
world renowned artist, a sculpture. She did pieces that were humongous.
So I had this dad who was in politics and
this mother who was covered with sawdust. She worked with
a chainsaw.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Weld on, let me just show you this.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Sorry, this is like one of her last pieces. Oh cool, Okay,
So you see three huge tree trunks. They're both several tons,
and that piece in itself together the three of them.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
The name of it was is Lament.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
I have that piece in my husband made and she
made this with a chainsaw and an axe.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
Okay, and the pieces. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
So most of my childhood she was in a massive
studio in McLean working with a chainsaw and covered with sawdust,
like just totally full out with her head around some
concept that is screening. And my dad would be at
the White House and or traveling the world. And it

(20:56):
made for the most amazing dinner conversations.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
I can't imagine brother and me.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
My brother Ian ended up working for the Bush administration.
He's a Republican and he lived in Ukraine for a
few years. We's got that expertise. And my brother Mark
worked for the Clinton and Obama administration, and under Biden
was pressed was ambassador of the US Ambassador to Poland.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
And what was that like?

Speaker 1 (21:22):
It was like my father would literally throw a bomb
in the middle of the dinner.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Table and have us debate it.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
And you can imagine us going into adulthood, one Republican brother,
one Democrat brother, my mother the artist like screaming crazy,
crazy things just to make it worse, and then me
trying to mediate and all of a sudden, are you
imagining morning Joe?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Yes, right, And.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
I'm literally made for it because like it it was.
It was really fun. My dad and my mom made
us think. They brought everything that they had in their
worlds to our home. Literally they brought their their jobs
to our home. Where my dad had the leader of
China over to our home for dinner. And when we

(22:08):
were during the normalization of relations with China, and I
served dinner to these people. My mother she served roadkill
at some of these dinners. So it's all interesting. And
that made the style section of the Washington Post. And
then I would say during the war in Iraq, we
had a family debate that that didn't that ended up

(22:30):
probably on the front lawn.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Is so bad, you know, I mean there were some really.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Tough days, yea, debates, debates that became real.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
You know what I'm thinking of. I'm sure you saw
the movie The Post.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
Wait, I don't think I.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Out, Yeah, really have I seen The Post, Mika, I
don't think I have.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
With Meryl Streep she plays Catherine Graham.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
No, I haven't seen it, Mika. It's bad, I know,
asked Joe.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Joe's going to have to put me in front of
it because that's the only way I see any reasons.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
But okay, you know Catherine Graham's home, yes, was where
diplomats would come over, and then White House people would
come over, and friends and socialites, and they'd have these
great conversations and the women would retire to this room
and the men would, you know, And I'm just thinking
of like that kind of this was all in Washington.
I'm just thinking of that kind of childhood, which sounds incredible.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
It was like that with kind of this Polish refugee
farmer hunt around, like a lot of really gamy rough
around the edges stuff mixed in, Like my mom and
my dad are refugees, so we're not going and buying
clothes at the mall. We're going to the second hands
door in McLean Like we're not you know, we're not

(23:42):
fixing things when they break, we fix them ourselves or yeah, yeah, yeah,
they just stay broken, you know. And so like, you know,
we had chickens, we had geese going around everywhere, and
then my mom got tired of them one day and.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
So we ate them yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
And so it was kind of very it was very
raggedy and still had that Catherine Graham esque you too,
I get.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Like at one point my.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Dad called my mom and said, we're having dinner with
the Pope tonight. He wants the family to come, and
so like my mom has to get three teens ready
for dinner with the pope. And my mom she was
you know, she did these huge sculptures. So this is
a woman with big mind, okay, and so she gets

(24:31):
us together. My eldest brother, Ian, the Republican, of course,
didn't want to go, and then finally showed up in
like ripped jeans and you know those timberland boots that
the guys would wear untied, yes, and and those so
Pope John Paul the Scond sees us coming in, like
me with my hair kind of oh my god, thank god,

(24:54):
I think he understood.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
I'm just gonna say. But like so he comes and.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
He sees us, and we're just we're a motley crew,
We're a mess. And my dad is like looking at
my mom, like what have you done to me? But
the Pope looks at my brother, looks at my mom,
who's kind of nervous, and then looks at my mom
again and winks at her and has her sit next
to him, and and you know, you'd think that'd be
the end of the story. It's kind of sweet, right,

(25:19):
He sort of brings us together, right, except my mom
decides to like go at him about birth control and
women in the Catholic church.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
And my dad, my dad's like.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
You could see the steam coming out of his ears,
like across the table. And this is dinner with the Pope,
Like meskis so.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
But what an education? That's so that's so great.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
You go to Georgetown, then you transferred to Williams.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
I did because I got rejected from Williams twice.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
But that's where you wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Right, And I love Georgetown, and I but say, I
don't like it.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
I don't when I get a know, that's like that.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Gets sticks, it sticks with you.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, And so I applied to Williams again and they
rejected me again and.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Said, Rudy, I know.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
And so then I applied to transfer as a junior
into Williams. And I I mean, my brother Ian went there,
and so I'm thinking he's probably like laid ways to
the place he did have. He was known as doctor
Destructo and I had to send him money his fault,
I think because I had just had him money one
year or something about street lights. So anyhow, I applied

(26:32):
again the third time, I guess, and I'm like, I
got to get in, and I get a letter it's
thin and I got waitlisted. So I went to the
Williamstown Favor Festival.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Do you know what that is?

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Of course, yes, of course.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
And I was like Roblow's Apprentice. I worked with Christopher
Walking and all these things. And I'm doing all this.
They're all like, oh, You're so lucky, you Robbelo's Apprentice,
And I'm thinking, I just want to get into this place. Okay, college,
I'll do whatever whatever. Who's Rob Low and so and so.
It's the most amazing summer. But I used it to

(27:09):
when every day when I went jogging, I knocked on
the president's door. I think it was Chandler at the time,
and I was like, Hi, I'm Mika, I'm on the
wait list and I would like to see if President
Chandler would like to interview me for my acceptance to
this great college. And I think they literally were like,
just let her in, just make her stop. But about

(27:30):
four days before school started, I got a call and
I got in my Nissan Stanza, packed it up and
moved into Bryan House.

Speaker 4 (27:37):
And I was a junior at Williams.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Like it really is, I was joking with it. It
really is, like Rudy, it's crazy. No, I.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Me literally, it's a good story. It's like a life yeah,
a life message that you just don't stop.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Ever, what do you do when you graduate.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I tried to get into TV and I got a
lot of no's, which you know how that impacts me, Yes,
But I got a note from the TV market in Presquile, Maine.
I believe that is the smallest market, there is nobody
would hire me, and so I drove around my Stanza
everywhere applying for jobs. I got one job at Vermont

(28:17):
ETV Public Television, where I hosted a fundraiser for one
night for one hundred bucks. So for three months I
worked in the press office of the Governor, Madelin Cunon's office,
and then did this live fundraiser.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
I was horrible. It was a disaster.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
And then I continue to look for work and took
a job as a desk assistant at ABC World News
This Morning, so I worked overnights, therefore starting a career
that would go decades into the future of working mornings
and overnights and all the different problems that come.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Along with Yeah, it was a.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
You got to really want to work into this business
because you have to work some really bad hours and
I've worked all of.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Them, yep, for same same coming up.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
You know, you say yes to Christmas Eve, Christmas.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Morning, all the Jewish holidays, like everything, I'll be there.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
I was there.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I was there weekends, nights, overnights, holidays.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
You move up to network and eventually MSNBC and what
try to tell me what the environment was like at
that time for women.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, I mean, you know, it was, it was, it was,
it was. It was hard because there were some situations
in which, yeah, there were people that hit on you.
It didn't happen to me as much. And I think
it's because I was like, again the girl that I

(29:50):
described in high school. But you know, at the same
I mean, I just knew if I worked really hard,
perhaps it would pay off. And that didn't happen as
often as I thought, because I would get I had
situations where an actual, real beauty queen okay, would get
the job that I wanted, and it's like, no joke,
and I'm like, geez, my obsession with beauty queens.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
It's like coming back to bite me again. But you know,
I don't know who to blame.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
It is. There's a lot of blame to go around
in a situation like that, and I don't pold against
any of it. It was all made me stronger, yep.
But there was a lot of that in the beginning,
and that was one of the reasons why I started
to know your value because I hated the way women
were pitted against each other.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
I hated that.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
I was like, no, I want to be I want
to create a situation and a culture and a community
where the.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Exact opposite happens.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes, and that is just out And so those first
years were useful, even though there were some negative experiences. Yeah. Sure,
so it was I think very hard to be and
it was hard to be a woman starting out in
the business because of the competitive of nature. And there
was only a few and yeah, it had this sort

(31:05):
of sexual overtone at all times. Of course, you know
where that edge was important. That was part of the job.
And again it's just not a competitor on that stuff.
So I think I noticed it more because I'm like, yeah,
I can't do that. I try to and it doesn't
come out right, looks crazy.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's not an ethical question for me. It's like, I mean,
I can't. I just can't.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
I'm just it's never going to be me.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
It's never I was one of those who was like, oh,
I'll just step aside because right, okay.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, I get I want to I want to read
you something okay that I came across. It's from two
thousand and one. It's Review and Entertainment Weekly. I'm sure
you'll remember. Ken Tucker is the author. He's writing about
the changes to cable news programming. Here's what he says
of Chris Matthews. He says, as Matthew's profile rises, so

(32:00):
does that of his entire channel. MSNBC used to fill
the afternoon with homepage high tech grab bag aimed at
females anchored by the powerpuff Girls of journalism, Ashley Banfield,
Mika Prasinski, and Gina Gaston. The show, which had the
gals gabbin and giggling one second, then putting on their

(32:21):
all caps serious news faces to read a disaster story
off their teleprompters, was doomed, and the Florida recount gave
MSNBC an excuse to break up the Powerpuffs and scatter
them throughout the network's news day schedule.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Now this same article, Mika, he compares Peter Jennings to
James Bond, Chris Matthews to Tom Sawyer, and Tucker Carlson
to the Rock.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
You guys are power powerpuff girls.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Oh my god, I just need to know how you
felt when you read this in real time.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Well, the good news is I vaguely remember it, but
I will say I loved Hardball. I thought it was
a great show. I really did love the first line.
But I do remember being called the powapuff girls, and
I think I was at the stage of my career
where I'm like, well, at least they notice. But I
will say that I learned so much. And I think

(33:21):
I speak for Gina too, who I love so much
that Ashley taught me so much.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
She's like one of my best friends. She is.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
She's like, first of all, I don't know where she
gets the energy. She has so much energy. She's always
firing on all cylinders. And I learned, like you know,
I teach how you advocate for yourself and what the
words are that you need to bring to the table,
and all the kind of the basics.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
Ashley she self advocates.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
In a way that I am in awe of because
she brings many others along with her. Yeah, but she's
able to so quickly synthesize what's important to say in
the middle of a negotiation, or the middle of a moment,
or in a moment of breaking news, or in a
moment where you need to speak to a manager and
you need to get your point across.

Speaker 4 (34:12):
I mean, she like made that she's fearless.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
It was her exercise every day, you know, like she
was so good, she's fearless, and I remember really enjoying
sitting next to her and learning a lot. I was
still learning a lot about the business and about who
I wanted to be and what I was and what
it was I brought to the table, and it was
fascinating and great to be next to someone who already

(34:37):
knew I think she did, and so I don't.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
I don't think we were powerpuff girls.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
I think we were like we had three hours to
fill and we were trying a lot of things. Sure,
and I don't really give a damn what can things
or whatever his name is. I you know, again, just
like where we began here in this conversation, this business
is all about trying new things. Yeah, and it's vapor Like,
I don't think you'll even find that video.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
If you do, let me go, because.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
I hear that I had some amazing hairstyles for that.
That was Those were the years old. Well, listen, those
were the years where they kind of told me what
to do when they made me. They gave me clothes
to wear, and they did my hair. And I will
never let that happen again. That's all I'll say. So
it was terrible, terrible. I think I think I wore

(35:26):
red snakeskin boots with a short skirt.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yes, yeah, I did amazing, I sure did. We all did,
girl all yet we've all had that face.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Okay, Yeah, I mean that that's wild. It's wild to
think that that would never be written today. A but
B it wasn't like a hundred years ago.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
It was like twenty.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Like that's crazy that that wasn't like that was I
was working at that time when that was written about
women in our job, Like, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
I know, I know, I think it is.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
I mean, I have to say we tried some stuff
like are open to our show? We did it like
Charlie's Angels, like walking. Yes, I mean, I guess we
set ourselves up a little bit. But you know what,
I think it's great when I see people trying things
and I think, what's what's mean about that? And what
seems caddy about that is that like this was a

(36:21):
show that was really trying a lot of new things.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
And yeah, and we and God forbid you have fun.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Oh don't do that.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
God forbid you have fun?

Speaker 4 (36:30):
God forbid exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, then you're then you're not taking it seriously enough.
And it's like, guys, the dudes have fun all day,
all day long, do yucking it up with each other.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
We can have fun too. It doesn't make us any
less serious and all. We can laugh at ourselves.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yes, and when it doesn't work, it just doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
That's okay, and so go and move on. I need
to know if you think that me too worked.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
I remember at the time because I had a show
at the time where I was inviting women on tell
your story. It was super cathartic to have all these
stories come out. But I still feel like if I
were up against a bigger name, a more powerful guy,
who did something inappropriate and I told I'd lose my

(37:26):
job and he wouldn't, and that doesn't feel like job security,
and that doesn't feel like things have really changed.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, I'm also equally concerned at because of the topic
that we talked about earlier, where you were the sole
tweet in my defense, I'm very concerned about cancel culture.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Well say that.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Yeah, so it's like this has.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Gotten even more I think of a toxic brew because
of social media and because of this sort of pylon
and because of the political division that we're in right now,
where things might happen to get someone canceled has nothing
to do with the person at all. But in terms
of the dynamic between men and women, I think a

(38:09):
lot of ground has been gained and a lot of
opportunities have been open to women, and I like to
work on building a community where none of that shit is.
It's not welcome, it just doesn't happen. It's like creating
a culture, creating a newsroom that doesn't have these issues,

(38:31):
creating a community where you can talk about these things
but also elevate these people way above them. And so
I feel like the counter to this is not necessarily.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
In the moment, or in the courtroom.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Or in the court of public opinion, but it's in
creating cultures and community is where we don't have to
deal with this. And that doesn't mean communities that are
all women. I mean there are many amazing male counterparts.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
You need men.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, the man show other men how to be exactly,
and so there is there's a lot of instead of like,
let's stay over here on this side because men are bad,
Like that's not how I want. I think we work
on this by lifting up the good ones on both
sides and by the way back to another thing that
I referred to, but I would not put the name

(39:21):
on to give that gift. There are some women who
are who do not play fair in this arena as well, correct,
and that's not talked about enough. I mean, if we're
going to go there, I just I'm always sort of like, yeah,
but okay, you know, yeah, there's some real.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Bad queen by the same rules. Yeah, exactly, I know
what you mean. Uh, okay, I want to shift to
to mental health for a minute, because we talk about
that a lot here. I've been open about my struggles
with severe anxiety and had a nervous breakdown. And we
cover some very hard stuff in our business, you know,

(40:01):
whether that's nine to eleven and you or the Syrian
War for me. We've covered mass shootings. Even politics can
be rough to cover and emotional and disorienting and triggering.
We've both been targeted by the President, which you know
can be a lot. How do you manage and regulate
your mental health? Do you take stories home with you?

(40:23):
Do you compartmentalize, do you carve out time? Do you
what do you do to make sure that you do
not become emotionally a victim of the work that we do.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, I think the biggest instead of being a victim,
I think the biggest concern is that And I think
I didn't know that I struggled with this, but I did.
You become a nord to the depth of what you
are covering. And right now what I do is I

(40:59):
I mean, I do therapy.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
I specificed up a therapy.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
It's called dialectical behavioral therapy and.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
Kind of brings you back.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
To your core values and core beliefs about people, including
everyone is trying their best. And by the way, when
I started this a few years ago, her first assignment
was that I had to watch Fox News for two weeks.
I had to watch it until I could truly believe
that every single person on Fox News was doing their best, just.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Trying the best.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
And I was.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I was like, I'm, I'm I'm working really hard here,
and she like made me watch it until I could
genuinely truly believe that they're trying and I'm saying it
series like they're are people who are trying their best.
And that's a funny example. But some of the other

(41:52):
assignments she gave me were deeper, were like how do
I get over some of the guilty in my life?
And I never actually had an ant for that, except
that I resigned myself to no longer trip over what's
behind me, which, which annoyingly is an Arianna Huffington post
that I saw on Instagram. I'm like, oh God, there's

(42:14):
the answer. It was like a lag and it said
don't trip over what's behind you. And I'm like, I
can do that.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
It's good, right, Yeah, don't trip over what's behind you.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
That's very good.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
And so she gave me a pass on that. She's like,
you're never going to get over the guilt, but you
if you vow to to not trip over what's behind you,
that's good. But back to the news business. This this
is hard to confront. But I think one of the
things that really went wrong for me in my life

(42:47):
as a mother, h is that it became such a
part of my day, you know, covering the news. And
when let's see, my daughters were like three and five,
I covered nine to eleven, and I was down there
in the pit for like six weeks. And I was

(43:09):
there when the towers fell and hid and all these
things and saw people and yeah, but from then on
it keep it keeps going. Like when you're in this business,
you cover things, it clever, plane crashes, after that, you
cover Newtown And I remember my kid's dad, my ex husband,

(43:31):
and Jim Hoffer is an investigative reporter for Channel seven
at the time, and he was like ugh, and he
went and you know, drove up to Newtown to cover that.
And but you hear our voice, we almost sound like
we're not connected with it.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
That was a big mistake. I mean it was a
protection of self protection. And as two turnalists, we could
we could be that way because we knew later we
could talk about the horror of whatever it was we
were covering. But our kids, and I'll speak for myself,
our kids saw like nothing when we come home from

(44:12):
covering these things and we think we're protecting them, and
there was a whole beat missing. And so the therapy
has really helped kind of connect like how how to
be present and react things and feel them but not
let them consume you because you do.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
It all the time.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
So that's so interesting, Wow.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
How did I get here? But I do understand that
mental health is a is a constant work in progress. Yeah,
it's something that I've I definitely I've had my my
dark times.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, that's so interesting the way you just put that
with kids. I remember when I was struggling my son
was very young, and my therapist was like, let me
ask you. Are you hiding your anxiety from your kid?
I said, yeah, of course, And she's like, do not
do this in age appropriate ways. He should see that
you are imperfect. You're not trying to raise a perfect

(45:13):
kid who never has a problem, or who thinks my
mom's got all the answers and she never has a
bad day or she never struggles.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
So once I was.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Given permission again in age appropriate ways to share that
with him. Mom's not feeling okay and mom needs to
talk to someone. Let me tell you how rewarding that
has been back because when he has had tough time,
So mom, can I talk to someone?

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (45:39):
As a parent, that's all you ask for, Just ask
for help. Do not suffer in silence. And so that
was such a great And now he's turning eleven, he's
learning about nine to eleven in school, and nine to
eleven was very hard for me, and twenty five years later,
it's still hard for me to talk about it, but
he is curious about it.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
So I talk to my therapist. She's like, well, this
is great. He is interested in history m hm.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
And you have a unique connection to this historical event,
and this is your opportunity to see it through his
eyes and stop seeing it through your eyes.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
So we took him to the nine to eleven Memorial.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
It was the first time I'd been there, and it
was so hard for me, but also important that I
not shut him off from this or shut off my
feelings from him and say, yeah, Jack, this was really
tough on mom.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
And he goes to me.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
He goes, Mom, if this gets too tough and you
start to cry, it's okay, we can leave, Like so sweet.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
I love him.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, oh yeah, he's the best. But the mental health,
the job, and the.

Speaker 4 (46:46):
Kids part, that's a big one.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
It's big, and it all comes together, right, It all
comes together in a way that's either very powerful and
helpful or in a way that can be really really,
really destructive and tough. Absolutely, But you just we're all
just trying our best.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
Right, Yes we are, Watchbox, we are.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
You've recently opened up about your skin allergies. Oh I
didn't know this could happen later.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
Wait, like, it's so bad? Did you see my face?

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Did you see my face?

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Well, it's your face looks great. I don't know what
you mean.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
It's much better now. But I looked.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I literally said, I think the headline from the article
that they pulled is I looked grotesque. But I was
covered with hives and acne and rashes and my face
felt like bugs were crawling up. And it was three
months and they were doing articles like Mika Persinsky will
refuse this to go to work, Mika Persinsky is taking
a vacation, Mika Persinsky is so lazy and doesn't And

(47:57):
I was like.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Oh God, have you seen me?

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Have you seen me? We met?

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, because first of all, like the joke on Morning
Joe is like everybody was gone and I was always
there like I always was, you know. And so but
I did take a lot of time off this summer
because my face was just the worst thing I've ever seen.
And the pictures take a look, but it's prolonged exposure
to regular makeup that everybody wears and forty years in

(48:25):
this business. Everything I use everything, shampoo, root boost, hairspray,
everything had three ingredients in it that I cannot pronounce,
and all the products have it.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
And suddenly suddenly you were allergic to it.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
So I would feel allergies every year, kind of bad,
and I thought it was pollen because it happened around spring.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Yes, And it.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Turns out I did the patch testing because this summer
it exploded. They came at the same time, but it
was just way worse, and they were like, you're not
allergic to pollen at all. The results show that you
were not allergic to anything. In fact, you're one of
the most non allergic people we've got except for these
three things. And there I can look them up for

(49:13):
you if you want. Yes, oh my god, they're in
my article.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
But I can find it too. I can find it.
But you're describing me. My allergies are crazy.

Speaker 4 (49:22):
Yeah, it's your mazing.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
It's going to come to my faith. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Oh yeah, oh, because I felt pins and needles all
over my body and it's it was the makeup, it
was everything. It was detergent, it was body lotion. I
don't use anything. I mean, if I want to use
a moisturizer right now, it's like vaseline.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
So did you have to find products that you could
use for TV that you weren't.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
All I did.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I found some in Clinique, so it's like the eighties
again for me. But they're really good. And but I'm
going to make I think I'm going to make a product.
I'm going to do something with the Environmental Working Group
and we're going to come up.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
I'm either going to.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Collab with someone, talking with some folks about colabbing. But
I want to make products that are really good, not
too expensive but still special and that don't have that
crap in it. And it's really hard to do. It's
really hard to do. So it's going to be a challenge.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
But I'm here for it. Yeah, I'm here for it.
Help us all I know.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
So Martha Stewart just came out with a serum that's
really good. She actually she called me this summer to
go to dinner and I was like, I can't because
look at my face, and I sent her of selfie.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
She was like, oh, that's terrible.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
And then but she just came out with a serum
that does not have those three products, and as it
was the thing I could use until I found like
more things through clinique, and like I have an app
that I have to put the app, the app on
the product and the QR code and it lets me
know if I'm allowed to use it. It's like nothing,

(50:57):
I'm allowed to use nothing.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
So I got to make some things?

Speaker 3 (51:01):
You do you do?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Because yeah, I'm very very into skincare. I'm very conscious about,
you know, my skin and using good products, and I.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Don't want that to happen. I don't want that.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I love doing masks, and I like, do you know
I get the Haley Beeber mask and you know what
I did by mistake? Do you ever get sucked into
these things? You're buying one and then all of a
sudden it's a subscription.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yes, of course all the time.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
So Haley Bieber's masks keep surviving to my apartment and
I can't use them, okay, and I can't stop the subscription.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
Oh so anyhow, I gotta make a mask.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
You have to.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
You have to let me know and let me know
if I can help, because I'm I will obsessed with this.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Okay, I'm gonna You're gonna be my guinea pigs.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I'll test them on you.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I love it. I'm serious about this. I think if I.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
See you doing masks on your Instagram. I do.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
I'm obsessed with masks.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I'm obsessed with skincare, but I'm obsessed with like the
science of it. So if I get a product, I
look up all the ingredients. The first question I have
is is that ingredient absorbed by the skin, like hyaluronic
acid not absorbed by the skin, So it's not actually
changing underneath your skin, Which is fine that it just
kind of sits on your skin, but I want to

(52:11):
know what it's supposed to do and what it is doing.
And so like I'm very very keyed in on the
skincare ingredients.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Well, just the bottom line is the truth is and
I'm gonna, I'm gonna I need to create a few
things that we can use as we get older, but
also that as we can use, Yes, but that the
truth is less is more.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Just if you do nothing.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Honestly, this stuff is all really bad for you. It's
more bad for you. All of the products, everything, everything
in the store is like I look at it now
as as dangerous weapons.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Wow, because they're so bad for you.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
They all have garbage in it that eats away at
your skin and develops analogy.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Okay, we need to know, we need we need you
on this. I'm money, we need you on this. Okay, wonderful.
I've got a lightning round to end.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Okay, I love, Okay, I think, I think?

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Okay, Oh you do you do? These are fun?

Speaker 2 (53:08):
As a power couple in the news. Who's another great
power couple you admire?

Speaker 4 (53:13):
And you said it was going to be easy?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Another power A power couple I admire, a power couple
I admire. Well, I really admired my parents. Oh that's okay,
that's okay. They were like a major power couple for sure.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
We know you didn't see the post.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
But what's your favorite movie about politics or Washington?

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Oh god, you're killing me. My favorite movie about politics
or Washington? I would say, probably what was it called?
Help me out here?

Speaker 4 (53:47):
Okay, who's in it?

Speaker 3 (53:50):
You know?

Speaker 4 (53:51):
It's our it's our guys, it's our guys.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Those guys.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
All the presidents men. Yes, well that's fantastic. Yes, yes,
that's a very safe and but wonderful answer. Did you
ever see did you see heartburn?

Speaker 1 (54:07):
No, don't donate Okay, don'tate me because I don't see movie.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Heartburn is incredible because it's Jack Nicholson again and Meryl Street.
But but it's the story of Carl Bernstein and Nora Efron.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Oh wait, dramatized.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
I think I have I think I have.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Carl, but it's.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
Yes, but noah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Don't you just love Nora Fron so much?

Speaker 4 (54:34):
I love Nora and Carl.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah, right, okay, who's uh an interview
you're most proud of?

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Well, an interview I'm most proud of. M mmmm, an
interview I'm most proud of. Hm. I don't think I've
had that interview yet.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Oh that's a great answer, though. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I always, I always very like critical of my interviews,
are you Yeah, I don't walk out of them going yeah,
I killed that.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
I will say the most difficult.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Interview I've ever had that I feel I did my
job on was an interview with Joe Biden when.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
He was accused of rape.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
That's tie, when he was accused of sexual assault by
the woman.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Her name escapes me.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
But it was it was a really hard interview to
do because I know him, I know his family, I've
grown up with him, and I had to make sure
that I balanced doing an effective interview that asked the
questions that that and followed up and perhaps even went

(55:47):
a little further as sort of proof that there wasn't
some sort of game being played here. And that was
just a fine balance. And it was vally like the
set was like when the interview was done, like Joe was.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Like, I got to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Was like, I got I got to get out of here.
He got up and like walked away, and like everyone
was like.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Oh, that's a good interview.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Oh so it and it hurt and I had to
like take a moment to breathe, but I had done
a good job.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Love that.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Okay, what's the habit of Joe's your husband, Joe that
annoys you the most?

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Uh? A habit of Joe's that annoys me the most?
I mean he doesn't annoy me?

Speaker 3 (56:34):
What No, he doesn't annoy you at all? No, do
you annoy him? What's the habit of yours that he
would say annoys him?

Speaker 4 (56:42):
I eat in bed?

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (56:45):
Yeah, and sometimes like yeah yeah yeah. And if I've
taken like medicine, I don't really it's not good.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I can get messy yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah yeah, Like what's all this chocolate in the morning
and then it'll be like, oh you know, yes, yes,
where are the.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Chips in my bad?

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Why am I rolling around in M and M's Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
Yeah, he's very he's very neat.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Okay, okay, we're back.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
We lost you for a minute technical difficulties, and I
now have help.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
I'm not my brain.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Who's who's here with you?

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Joe?

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Hi Joe? She says, you don't do anything that annoys her?

Speaker 5 (57:35):
Why try not too?

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Yeah? No, she said that and meant it earnestly.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
I think sometimes like she it's not that I annoy her,
but she tries.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
To protect me.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
I'm like six', Four i'm a big guy with a loud,
voice so there's a lot of times where she'll tap.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Me But i'm not, annoyed not.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
Annoyed but she's trying to help. Me, say don't you,
know don't scare small pieces you?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Pets?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Exactly, yeah, okay this is the second to last.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Question if you had to, choose are you guys going
to a comedy show or? Karaoke?

Speaker 5 (58:10):
Oh comedy?

Speaker 1 (58:11):
Show yeah you.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Would you wouldn't want to get.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Up and, sing would?

Speaker 1 (58:14):
You?

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Yes BUT i have. SAT i have sat to comedy
shows Where i'm like. This she doesn't really get. IT
i get, it but.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Like later AND i seriously remember THE i Love tofu license.

Speaker 4 (58:27):
PLATES i will tell her in.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Morning, joe we had somebody to put up a license
plate that SAID i Love. Tofu and the whole set was, like,
oh put that, away And i'm like, why why? Why
and then like ten minutes later we had done like
two other. Stories i'm, like oh my, godness so fine
and everyone was.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Like, well, yeah will, yeah people will tell her.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
Jokes my brains on delay walk away at all.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Times you need some time to sit with The it
works just. Slowly you just need some. Time, okay this
is the last, question and it's the most important question
to me because this is my is my culture and my.
Religion when is it iced coffee?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Season?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Oh, well For joe it's every. Season he that's all he,
drinks is like ice.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Coffee correct, Answer, YEAH i love. It not for.

Speaker 5 (59:13):
ME i also, THOUGH i need it because WHEN i wake,
UP i need to get something down really fast, quickly
wake me up, right.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
SO i don't have time to sip hot.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
Y i don't have to do.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
It it's got to be, down, no you, know hot.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Meka, okay the important thing is you both like. Coffee,
yes yes we. Do but for, me iced coffee is a.
Religion it's all year, round.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
All year round around.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
Totally, yeah, rain, rain, sleet, snow hot, weather cold, weather, anytime.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Skiing on the ski. Slopes i've got ice, Coffee. Doe,
yeah thank, You, mika and good to see, You, Joe
AND i really appreciate you making this.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Time, well thank you so much for having. Me it
was really.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Nice next week On off The, CUP i talked to
a Former White House chief Of staff and possible twenty
twenty eight, contender Rom.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
EMMANUEL i Decided i'm going to go to, college AND
i told my.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Parent my mother was very, disappointed and She's, jewish so
she's still disappointed in ninety. THREE i, mean still be
a moment and she'll just go you could have been a,
dancer LIKE.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
I don't, KNOW i got, yeah, Yeah ambassador Mayor, no
you could have been a.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Dancer off The cup is a production Of iHeart podcasts
as part of The Reason Choice.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Network if you want, more check out the Other.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Reason choice Podcasts spolitics With Jamel hill And Native land.
Pod For off The, Cup i'm your, host se Cup
editing and sound design By Derek. Clements our executive producers
are Me Si, Cup Lauren, hanson And Lindsay.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Hoffman rate and review wherever you get your.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Podcasts follow or subscribe for new episodes Every, wednesday f