March 19, 2025 • 54 mins
If going out to restaurants is S.E.'s no.1 hobby, getting to talk to celebrated, celebrity chefs is probably a close second. This week, S.E. indulges in a conversation with Ming Tsai! The New England restaurateur [Blue Ginger in Wellesley, MA, and Blue Dragon in Boston] talks about growing up in the kitchen, bucking the career expectations of his immigrant parents, and those wild early years of television cooking shows (and some of his influences). Ming also talks about finding balance with family and the restaurant life and how he fills his soul through organizations like Family Reach, which provides financial assistance to families dealing with a cancer diagnosis. And finally, S.E. has a scrumptious lightning round in store — stay tuned to find out how Ming really feels about The Bear.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I look at my dad much more pensive. A rocket
scientist is to remind you, and he looked at me
and goes, son, you weren't going to be a great
engineer anyway, Go go cook. Like wow, that's harsh.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, everybody, welcome to off the cup my personal anti
anxiety antidote.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So I don't talk about it a lot, but I'm
a foodie.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Not in the sense that I cook, because I don't
that often, but I love food, and specifically I love restaurants.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Okay, this is a niche genre.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
My husband's son always joke that going to restaurants is
my hobby, that's my pastime, and they're right.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's the thing I like to do the most.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And yes, I like fancy restaurants, but also a good
a good hole in the wall is just fine. It's
the experience of it, and I crave it like weekly.
When I retire, I want to spend all my time
traveling the world going to restaurants. So no surprise, I
love going to the restaurants of celebrity chefs, and many
(01:05):
years ago I went to one that was very high
on my bucket list, Blue Ginger in Wellesley, mass The owner,
chef was a long time favorite of mine, and I
got to say it was one of the best dining
experiences I've ever had. So I am so thrilled to
welcome ming Si to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Wow, thank you for the intro. I'm very happy to
be here. Pleasure to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I told you I'm a big fan.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Do you do you remember what did you eat? You
remember what you ate?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I had dumplings, I had miso.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Cod yeah, yeah, Chilian sea bass or the Black Coves Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, mes Chilian sea bass, yes, several other things.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
This was like fifteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, it's a while ago.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Anniversary with an ex boyfriend, so I don't talk about
it all that often.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
But I'm sorry. I hope it wasn't the food.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No, but I only got to go once and it
was so memorable.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
But I'm sad that I didn't get to go back
with my husband and my family.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
There's other Mensai restaurants to go to. So there's a
lot I want to talk to you about, including a
number of weird connections that we have. But first I
always like to start by asking what kind of kid
were you?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I was well behaved. I did not break rules. Having
said that, I was still sent off to prep school
by tenth grade, following my brother who's two years older,
so we were both at andover and I broke rules
there and got caught as well.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Tell me what rules you broke?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Just apparently you're not asked us to drink alcohol when
you're like sixteen and seventeen years old. I've heard that
I thought I was in Paris. That was my bad
and it was an andover Extera game and I was inebriated,
So yeah, bad, bad move and slapped and thank god
I got it together. But loved like being Mexican or
(03:06):
Chinese or Jewish or any immigrant. You love your parents,
you love your grandparents. You're always in the kitchen. That
was my life. It sounds cliche, but we literally made
dumplings together. We literally hung out in the kitchen. I literally,
as soon as I could walk, would be in the
kitchen because I like the smell, the sound, these scraps
of food that grandparents or parents would hand to me.
(03:27):
I was fascinated by it. It was just like this
is this is something that I'd.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Love to do.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And the statement I always make and I will repeat
it again to you is I was still am and
will always be hungry. So because of that, Yeah, I'm
a chef and I can honestly say I do not
think I've ever gone to bed hungry. Not happening.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh, I love that your mom was.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Your mom owned a Chinese restaurant, right, and your dad
was an engineer.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, bless her soul. She passes for ever. Unfortunately she was.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
She was a firecracker. She's the one that really lit
under me. Like, this is how you run a restaurant.
This is the best part about the restaurant, which is
if you can give great food at a great price
with the big smile, you end up getting loyal clientele,
loyal following, et cetera. And that doesn't matter if it's
a small manner in kitchen like in Dayton, Ohio, as
I always called the culinary capital of the world, or
(04:26):
in Paris or you know, La, New York, whatever, right
they are, but the premise is the same, right, it's people.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
It doesn't matter if you're billionaires.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
If you're someone you know that that's making twenty thousand dollars.
Everyone wants a value, and so t smoked peeking duck. Yeah,
granted it's eighty eight bucks, but it's a great value.
You're feeding sixty eight people, and so it really doesn't
matter if it's a hamburger or tea smoke peking duck.
Everyone everyone wants deliciousness for one and two of course
a value.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And was your mom in foraging of you to go
into the culinary arts, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Both mom and dad were Actually Dad was still is
at ninety five, a rocket scientist. He for the records
the side. Now we could talk about him for an hour.
He's he is a ninety five works full time. He
was just in Asia for a month with two ski poles,
seven countries, twelve meetings. He has his latest patent on
(05:25):
how to design better fuselages with composite materials. So that's
everything from tore the largest golfight graph manufacturer in the
world in Tokyo, to the largest drone manufacturer in China,
to air Bust to SpaceX to Ferrari and he's ninety five.
So that's my what's his secret? Di's such an easy secret,
(05:46):
so hard to do. He doesn't have stress. I've never stressed.
I've never like you know, we thought misplaced the tickets
to the cruise line. He's just like, no problem, not
my you know, my mom was slammer heels in the
marble floor here and across the across the kyn and
that he never stresses and it's and it does always work.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Out for him. And he still look even in ninety five.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
He still walks and he maybe swim still like twice,
you know, twice a week. And yeah he does eat well,
not overeat, but he's always eating well. And food is
you know, one of the reasons I'm a chef. His
parents and grandparents made food such a priority that we
would be going from like point eighty too, point B,
point C was Toronto, where there's a Chinatown, and we
(06:33):
were in Dane, Ohio, where there's no chinatown. We were
we had the three families over for our house for
dumpling making. That was Chinatown. That's that's how the Chinese
were in Dane, Ohio. And so we would bline way
the hell out of the way to get those pink
boxes right in Toronto. And every time we drive through
my parents, my mom is just relentlessly we go through
customs and she would insist and open up one of
(06:56):
these boxes a sachi mau, which is.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
These rice pastries and handed to the US.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Some people amazing, we love Canada and they're like, we're
actually American, ma'am, Like, okay, whatever, we love America. That's great.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So food was well, I mean, that's such a good
point about stress.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I have a severe anxiety disorder.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
We talk a lot about mental health on this podcast,
and I remember one time when I was describing some
of the things I was doing to my therapist, she.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Said, see, this could actually kill you.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
This anxiety, this constant state of adrenaline fight or flight,
could give you a heart attack.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And I don't think people think about in.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Those will yes, yes, but it was I mean, that
was earth shattering to me because it wasn't just this
isn't good for you, this isn't making you happy. It
was this could kill you. And there's a lot of
scientific research that.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Backs that up. So just one other reason I'm in therapy.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
You know what, I'm glad you brought up mental health.
Mental health, let's call it what you want. You know,
I spent a lot of time in Big Sky right
for four plus months a year, and one of the
highest demographics of suicides are males. Between eighteen and twenty
four at ski resorts. It's a crazy statue. Skis at
ski resorts and you think, how's that possible? Quite often
(08:21):
maybe from broken homes that by themselves they have no privacy, right,
they're always sharing a room or four to a room.
They don't have enough money to like go out to
the bars and restaurants on their two days off. Yeah,
they get a ski pass the two days. You add
drugs and alcohol to it with with no guardrails, you
can see how it spirals. And you know, one of
(08:41):
the things and I'm I'm I'm getting very involved. There's
a great friend of mine named Harris Schwarzburg who's a
fellow mombrow at Yellowstone and and you know, hats off
to Sam Burns, the who really is the owner of
Yellowstone Club. He's really taking the community. I mean he's
he is the community, right, not not him alone, but
he helped, he helped build a community. There's a community
(09:04):
center downtown Big Sky. It's the only building open after
six pm that doesn't serve alcohol. So that's a place
that everyone can gather and do sports and study. And
there's ice skating on the winter and it's that it's
a pandemic already, and it's not. And thank god the
last almost you know better than me. It only have
(09:25):
been the last two years when it's really been something
we can talk about openly, and so many people, everyone
has been touched by it. Of course, it's like cancer.
You don't know a person has not been touched by
about the illness. It's just not it's not possible this
day and age. It's just the world is so hard.
The world is getting harder, right, it's not getting easier.
(09:46):
One of my long term goals is I have to
is I want to do a cooking school called Happy
I want to do a book called Happy Chef Memoir,
but just about how you can look at life and
if you look at it through food. It's if your
goal that day is they have something delicious to eat.
Everything else falls aside, honestly because you're you're worried about
(10:08):
the rightness of the strawberries or whatever whatever it is.
But the one thing that's just so that people don't
think about it. If you're in high school or college,
and if you're a star athlete, or you're incredibly beautiful,
or you could sing, you could dance, you have incredible talent.
You're going to do fine in high school and college. Right,
(10:28):
there's no issues. But if you're the other sixty percent
of the student body that don't quite know what they
can do, they're not quite great at anything, they kind
of fall in the middle. And again, same thing. Like
skiers add drugs and alcohol and whatnot. You can you
add your parents are divorced, all thousands of reasons. But
(10:50):
you start getting depressed anxiety, and what happens is your
self worth goes to zero. Right, you think I can't
do anything, I have no self worth? Why am I
even here? And once you start asking that question, then
of course we're so the idea of their class. Just
imagine this. Let's say forty kids. Everyone gets their own
cutting or whatever, and we all everyone gets increased to
make a chocolate chip cookies. We all bake chocolate choke
(11:11):
cookies together and we actually do it, and they actually
eat it, and they're actually like, this isn't bad. This
is actually something I made. Now we take these cookies
and we go out on the street and then we
start handing them to people, and then they start noticing
people smile when they bite something that they actually made.
Then they're like, wait a minute, I actually have I
(11:32):
actually can do something to make someone else happy. Yeah,
that's a switch. And and then hopefully someone will be like,
you know what, this is something I can do. Because
cooking is one of the only professions you don't have
to have any natural talent. You can't just be out
to be an NBA star. You need to have a
lot of height and natural talent. Right, you can't be
dand there. You can't be a singer cooking though, if
(11:53):
you have two hands or even one hand, I've seen
one hand in chefs and a desire, you can become
a great chef. Yeah, right, And we all have a tongue.
We all have a palette. It's just how we train it.
But it's not like my tongue is better, faster, stronger
than yours. No, I've just eaten more different foods. But
anyone could do that. And I don't have any special
skill set to eat more different foods. So I mean
(12:13):
I do have money, that's helpful, but you know what
I mean, there's no there's no magic about being a
great chef. It's passion driven and everyone if they can
find their passion, and then this also so imagine these
people that can get placed into the one million cooking
jobs that have been vacated since COVID. So it's actually
(12:34):
producing a needed workforce, of getting people off of off
of the mets, off of self worth, and of course
off of you know, doubt, self doubt, because every everyone
could be a chef. Everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You mentioned our first connection, which is Andover.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I grew up in Andover. I didn't get county. I
was a towny if you must.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I went to a different private school, but I knew
lots of kids at Phillips.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I love that town. I love Andover.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Our second connection, you go to Cornell for grad school.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I went to Cornell for undergrad.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
In which school arts?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, hotel obviously right, And I want to ask, I mean,
for people who don't know, Cornell has one of, if
not the best hotel hospitality schools in the country.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's great. And I loved, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Going to the Statler and staying at the Statler and
eating at the Statler and it's just so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
How did you find Cornell?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Oh, tremendous. I was one of the youngest in the program.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was probably only like twenty five because it's a
graduate program, right, it's master's program.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yes, you would, and you would come from Yale.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I've come from Yale, but actually took two years inked
in Paris, which was which was my dream drive, and
once I graduated from college, I mean, actually, I can
give you a quick story. So both my parents obviously
are Chinese, born in Beijing, but they were both schooled
in the US college. My mom went to Nyu, my
dad went to Yo. Right, my grandfather actually went to Yale,
(14:17):
So I was legacy doesn't matter anymore back then and helped,
thank god, because I was not exactly chewing. My SAT
scores were like, not exactly stellar anyway, so they were
they were just cool Chinese parents, meaning they weren't the
traditional Chinese. Because now having said that, growing up, I
(14:37):
did have the rules. You could be anything you want son,
as long as the doctor, lawyer, engineer, right, you can
get okay, you can get any grades you want as
long as they're straight a's, and you can date anyone
you want.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
We preferred Chinese.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I married Polly, who is pretty beautiful and wonderful
and Caucasian as you for. She's actually super welsome. Dayton Ohio,
but does the fluid Chinese. So she actually, ironically, my
parents said her accents better than me.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I'm like, say, what do we talk about it anyway? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So I'm oh, for three, I failed on all of
that right straight and forget about it. But I did graduated,
but I did take engineering. I do have a mechanical
engineering degree, so that worked out. But imagine, so every
summer I started going to Paris. Right, they knew I
liked to cook, right, and my dad's partner, Tarima, sorry,
I had a place in Paris I could stay for free.
So I started cooking there, doing apprenticeships, eventually worked there.
(15:31):
So it was no shock when I sat him down
right before senior year started, like I want to be
a chef. I'm going to finish my degree. I want
to move to Paris a week after graduation and go cook.
And my mom, if you've ever seen her on my show,
you know, God bless her. She was mostly brilliant, vivacious.
She would make fun of my dumplings and like, mom,
this is my show, because that doesn't they don't look perfect.
(15:53):
That's just she was awesome. She was really, she was fantastic.
My son who's done some shows with me, is equally good.
She he likes to dis me as well, and so
she gave me a big hug. She's like, look, you're
so lucky that at such a young age, you know
you you love something, you'd love to do it, you
follow your you know, follow your passion. Give one hundred
ten percent holy support you. I look at my dad
(16:14):
much more pensive A rocket scientist is to remind you.
And he looked at me and goes, son, you weren't
going to be a great engineer anyway, go go cook Like, wow,
that's hard.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
She goes, Am I wrong?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And he's so right. If you don't love what you do,
you have no chance of being good forget about being
great at it. You have no chance to be good
at it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
And it did. It has come full circle.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Right right before COVID, I was doing probably six years
of HSN and I actually enjoyed doing that. I was
designing kitchen equipment, so I literally was using p vehicles
on our team and all my all my engineering actimen
that I had left in designing and designing stuff. So
it actually I actually got to use the engineering degree
after all.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, not a waste for sure never, So then.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Why Wellesley? You know again, I'm from Massachusetts. Great food scene,
especially now, but not so much. I think back when
you I.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Had, I had critics like, you're going to the suburbs.
What are you doing? Yeah, the Boston was just getting hot, right,
Ken Orangers just opening up Cleo and you know, Todd
was on fire.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And yes, and was coming Barb was.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Killing it and yeah, and I wanted the fame and
glory of the city restaurant. I wanted that buzz and
all that. But honestly, I started just really looking at
costs for one, but looking at where there was no competition.
I will have to hats off to Cornell for teaching
that in one of the marketing classes. I mean, they
didn't teach the big fish small fish, you know, analogy,
(17:46):
but that's what it is. Yeah, you could be a
mediocre fish in the suburbs and you will kill it.
And and honestly, it was my buddy Todd English who
had to fix Alvion Wellesley. And I called him and
he was serving pizza on an upside down sheet train.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
His line are.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Out the door and his piece is good. But it
wasn't like Revelatory. You know Elbuie right, and he's like,
and Todd knew me. He goes, dude, you do your fruit.
You won't. You will never not be busy. So I I,
my ex system law found the spot. It was the
Wellesley Market grocery store, which I already meat. That meant growth,
(18:20):
that meant a walking clues in the basement, lots of space,
d da da got it for a song and and
it worked.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
It worked. I was right downtown Wallseley. There was parking everywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I did a style of food that no one was doing.
But it wasn't just a Chinese restaurant, right, it was
East West and you've been there and it was very approachable. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I did fry calamari.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Everyone did. I did, but I did my own right.
And of course I do raw dishes for my training
in Japan and whatnot. Uh and I and I took
a lot of time and energy because it really needed
something that really a thoughtful wineless that went with the food,
and really good crafted cocktails for the experience. And keep
it and keep paper on the tables, right, no one
will I have to put on I remember when I
(19:01):
first opened, I got caught over by this older couple
and it's really gruff and he's like, you know, it's
just meal is delicious suggestion my cuff and my jacket
keeps getting caught on your paper, you know, I suggest
maybe tablecloths. And I said, sir, no disrespect, many suggest
you take off your jacket. Your jacket walked away because
(19:24):
no one else has happening this problem because no one
else is wearing a jacket, dude. So that's okay, that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So the first year you open your name Chef of
the Year by Esquire magazine.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Correct, was that a lot of pressure?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Oh? It was. It was more of a surprising pressure. Honestly,
it just it just happened. I mean, I mean, I'm
not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I was. I was tickled. Pick.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I was very proud that just out the door in
the first year, that that could happen.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
When how old were you?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's ninety eight, sixty four, so thirty four and wow,
and you know, I mean everything happened to Ida, right.
I opened restaurant in February, very proudly got three stars
in the Boston Globe for the restaurant before TV and
all the other stuff came up. Because yeah, you know,
I am still a chef first. I love everything that
(20:13):
they do after that, but I'm a chef first. That's
the most important thing I do. But I do enjoy
I've always enjoyed doing simple thing and all the shows
that I've done because I'm teaching.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Oh and you're so good at them. It's you're making
like everything's so accessible. But you know it looks so good.
I mean, I really do. I would credit you with
the sort of heightening of the Asian fusion just explosion,
because I mean, you just made it all look so good.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
No, well, thank there are a lot of you. Look,
I I was sartinly walking in Martin Yan's footsteps. Martin
was the think of Asians on TV besides the ones
I could break boards and but Martin was the first
one that you know, co tricial Chinese food. Julia, of course,
was the one that we all loved because she just
(21:05):
she's she made it so okay to be yourself. You're
going to screw up in the kitchen. I mean she
dropped a freaking chicken on the ground and picked them
back up like.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
No one's looking, and she just keeps going.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It's which is amazing, right, I mean, come on. And
I took a lot from that because I can't take myself.
So I'm just making food, right, I'm not making nuclear bombs.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I'm not I'm not getting the cure for cancer. I
wish I had that bandwidth.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But although I don't wish, probably because because my mind
is as as my wife says, it's really immediate gratification
when you open. When when you own a restaurant, the
places come back clean or come back filled with food.
Restaurant's busy or it's not. It's very simple. You don't
need to, like I wonder how we're doing.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
It's pretty obvious, right right, So if.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Then knock on what I don't know what it's like
to be in a restaurant that it's not busy, That
would that would really stink to be perf on us.
But when you're in it and on all cylinders, there's
there's not a better feeling because because you do get
you are part of the reason people are so happy
that day in that restaurant. Yes, what a what a
what I mean musicians a rights are so many people
(22:17):
have that same But but Picasso, I don't know if
he ever knew the people he really made happy, right,
the ever met them, right, right, you know, and of
course Bono sees you know, fifty thousand people, so that
that's obvious. But it's different, right because it's actually, yeah,
going inside of you, right, you're actually eating it. It's
part of becoming part of you, oh totally. And that's
(22:40):
which is the best part about food. And there's not
a better way to share anything. It has to be
overbred o bowl of rice, which is what, of course
right now this world needs. Unfortunately, unjokingly, we have such
real problems in this world and you can't get everyone
to a dinner table. Soon it's gonna go gonzo. I
(23:00):
hear you scary stuffs.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So I'm friends with a bunch of celebrity chefs, and
I hear there's a sort of frustration with TV that
it's like all competition shows now and less about cooking.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
What are your thoughts, It is certainly what's paying the
bills competition shows.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
And I have guilty of charge. I played along as well.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right I did, And I like watching them.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I love doing Iron Chef with Netflix. That was such
a fun fun thing. And I just judged again Tournament
Champions guys show guy, I think guy's fantastic. He's yeah,
he's like forty eight percent of the food that wragant.
Bobby's the other forty eight percent. Then there's exactly and
it's just like, at least it's not white males. Oh yeah,
(23:50):
maybe sort of anyway. And hats off to both of them.
I mean, hats off to Bobby. He talked about someone
that is just right right. He was like under Emerald
shadow and then always this, but.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, he didn't care, he just.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Came, Oh it is Bobby.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
He's fantastic guy too.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The guy guy has the most amazing setup with his
warehouse and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
The one thing that's so fascinating is his hats off
to you.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Women. Tournament of Champions and if you know, it's sixty
four chefs East and the West. They all compete for
five years running. Season six just happened. I can't say
what happened. For five years running, every finalist has been
a woman. There's never been a male finalist in five years.
So in this format, which is like you know, mystery
(24:34):
basket randomized you thirty forty minutes to cook, women are better.
They and I know why, I know exactly why women Why? Well,
women are smarter. I'm not just saying that because you're
on the women are and women keep it simple stupid, right,
I'll just spend it like.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I'm gonna do this and this and two sauces in
this garnish of that and.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
One is like I'm going to cook the fish perfectly.
One if they do taste sauce and a garnt and
that's and they and they do, and they nail it
and they keep winning because they and keep it simple
stupid because they're women. And that's been like I could
do I gotta make bagels and they're like, no, I've
half an hour, right, that's one of my chef friends
(25:13):
did it at forty minutes, made bagels. Let me come on, dude,
really no you don't know? Yeah, yeah, no, I could
do that. I could do so playing a minute. Yeah yeah,
so flazy. Yeah, because that's just get your egg whites.
That's that's why bajaml killia that that that would be
a bagels now I think anyway, so so, but but
it's women.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Think of women. How did you How did you meet
your wife?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I met my wife a long time ago, nineteen eighty three, right,
so we're talking about forty one years ago. And she
was the youngest sister of six and the Tallbots. Tallbots
is a squashed family in America. Mark Talbot was the
world champion for twelve years. The young brother, David Talbot
(26:00):
was the yel squash coach and I was his first
class in eighty three. And so David was there Hollywood
studying Chinese at CU Boulder. Randomly decided to take Chinese.
She actually lived literally apart three from me in Danton,
Ohio and Oakwood and I lived in Kettering. We never
met there. She was born in Dane, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And wait, and she decided to take Chinese. She didn't
know you. This was on her.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
She didn't know she was.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
She was at CU Boulder.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
She goes to a couple classes econ that's like twelve
hundred people classes, five hundred people class. He's like, no, no, no,
I need classes like ten.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
And she's like, oh, I bet you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
A lot of people don't take Chinese, and she says,
I want to learn to try.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
And then she ends up meeting a great guy that
ended up taking Japanese.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So her roommate, fun enough as a side digression, is
Ivan Orkan, who is the famous Long Island Jew that
decided to go to Tokyo and make the best bowl of
ramen in Tokyo. You must know of his whole story.
He has Ivan Ramen in New York, right right, So
go gole. So that's Ivan Oregon happened to be my
White's roommate because they met at a Green Peace rally.
It's you, Boulder, just completely random anyway. So my wife's
(27:05):
studying Chinese and my my brother in law, who unfortunately
is now also it happened.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
It's been just a shitty year and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And he's like, you got to meet this Chinese guy
on my team.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
He speaks Chinese. He's a dead head. He's I think
you may like him. Da da da.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And so we meet and she had the same smile
and I knew. I literally thought the day I met
her in the squash off was like, oh okay, yep,
that's the one. I really thought that. And for ten
years I followed her, wrote her postcards. I mean with
my girlfriend in Tokyo, like thinking of you. I mean,
you know, nothing bad, but I was just thinking of her.
I was just being honest, said, I sent her a
(27:40):
care package and when she was in Beijing with her boyfriend,
like chocolates and stuff, and yeah, enough for him, though,
I'm not rude that that's enough for him.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, that's that's an even better move exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So I had him San Francisco and then yeah, I
ended up both single for a brief second and the
rest is history.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And now we're we've been married twenty nine years.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I have to imagine there are a lot of perks
being married to a famous chef, but I also have
to imagine it's hard as well.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
What's it like for her?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yes, I think I think the perks are awesome. I
think all of us chefs get great perks being chefs.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Right, food and travel.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, it's one of the it's one of the best
fraternities I've seen. I mean, I bet, I don't know.
I'm not a marine, I'm not a c I'm not right.
I mean, you think about all the other closeness of
a group of people, chefs, where you so take care
of each other. And what's the best thing in the
world anyway, if you have all the money in the world,
it's your next bite. It's not how fast your car
(28:53):
is going to go. I agree, right, it's it's your
next bite, your next gosspel w I know whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yes, the uh, it depends on what part of my.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Career, honestly, because when I was shooting Ming's Quest, this
is pre nine to eleven, I'd be gone for.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Two three weeks at a pop shooting.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah. But David, who is now proudly a marine, He's
going to be stationed somewhere in three months, which is
scary as shit because it's going on in this world. Yeah,
and the Marines are the first ones to go in
to see if it's crazy or not.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
They're like, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, thank you, we're here.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, we're so proud and scared shit list to be honest.
But the one thing I luckily did, and this is
a perk that came by opening in the suburbs. I
was done by nine point thirty, right, Right, So I
if I had a city restaurant, I'm home at one, right,
that's a bit. Then you don't see spouse and then
(29:48):
in the morning you're sleeping, and then you don't see kids.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And right, was that part of your calculation too? Opening
in the suburbs.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
As soon as soon as I thought it soon before
I sign everything. That that was definitely part of level,
and it was part of the scary part of it,
because are there enough sophisticated diners out here that are
going to enjoy my food?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So that was the risk, right, But.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Then I realized, like, look, I don't care if you're rich,
but if you're well traveled, you like good food. And
I know my food is good, and I'm going to
price it such that you can come every week.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's not a special occasion.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I don't want to find dining paper on the tables, right,
And so that was and I'm lucky because I would
go one or two o'clock to work. We did do lunch,
so you know, once lunch started, it was fine. It
ran itself. Do the new dishes, do my meetings, do
whatever interview is, taste the line, do my upfront and
these guys coming into it. And I'd leave for about
(30:38):
an hour, like between a quarter quarter six a quarter
of seven, because restaurant doesn't start get busy till six thirty, right,
So that I would because I was only four point
one miles away, So I come home, make dinner for
the kids, and then go back to work. Wow. So
that was such a much more normal life for both
my wife and my kids, because otherwise, you know, and
(31:01):
I tried. I wanted to be a New York City restaurant, right,
and that would have been literally work until two and
everything that comes with it. And this is how you
get to the tops, and that's you get your mischelon
stars and and it's a different path and but you
got there. But it worked out well. I did never
got a Mission star, but I paper on the tables.
But although it doesn't matter. You can serve oysters on
the street. Now we get a Michelin star.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
So I mean, I think Michelin stars are great.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
They're great, they're great.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
But I think you've made so many people so happy
as both a chef and a television chef.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I mean, I would not look down on anything.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
You got it again, It's my wife would joke. She goes,
how is how is the ming love Fest today? I'm like, oh,
it's fine, honey, that's very funny. And but I tell you,
when Food Network first came out, it was crazy, right
because they only had like five or six of us shows.
(31:59):
They would play each of us three times a day
time and then the afternoon and then like and at
two am, so all the cooks would see it too,
because now the ones that are up at two as
so everyone.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Saw these shows.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It was absurd And I say this all the time.
It did not make me a better chef, right, I
just happened to become the chef that's in the black box.
So now I'm the authority on Asian East West cuisine
and at least six hundred chefs can cook me under
the table in this country, full stop, one hundred percent.
I just happen to have got the platform. And as
you can tell, I really do enjoy doing it. I
(32:33):
like teaching.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I like I like.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I've never shied away from the lifetime. I don't even
think about the limelin. I just think about here's an
opportunity to teach. And now, as you can tell, with
both mental illness and i'd be remissed by I can't
talk about my other huge cause called Family Reach and
please go to Familyreach dot org to check it out.
But Family Reach were the only national charity that financial
helps family's dealing with cancer. The number one cause of
(32:57):
personal bankruptcy today is still a cancer diagnosis to a family,
and mag it's not about Obamacare. Thank god, there's healthcare.
It's about your two families. Mom and dad both work.
Assuming you have a mom and dad, they both work,
they each make a one hundred K. That's a really
well off American family. But then the kid gets cancer.
So then mom, the more nurturing, stops working. Now in
(33:18):
comes half to one hundred. But you still have your
two car payments, maybe private school, whatever, whatever, doesn't matter.
You went to Harvard or Yale, you become broke even
if you start at that level.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Imagine now if you're.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Fifty five K, you get a cancer diagnosis, then once
you're homeless in our system, you're basically forgotten. You're done.
So family reaches and I'm so proud I've been with them.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I've thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I've raised over twelve million dollars for them through food,
through a great event called Cooking Live. I go to
all these cities, on twenty two of them around the country.
We bring chefs and we have families there and we talk,
of course about guy Fiery and I did the last
one and here in Boston raised a million. And we
have something called the Financial Resource Center. Now because it's
a systemic problem. Now, the inequity of this country, the
(34:02):
inequity of the world is when you're sick, it's it's
exponentially worse, right, And you basically if you're poor, give
a much less chance of surviving than if you're rich,
which is so wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
That's not the way. It's not. There's no period of
there so families I'm so proud of.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And but that's the whole point was because like you
as well, you have a platform as well, right, you
have people that love you, and and it is such
a responsibility that if you have that platform to to
guide it and do something with it to make sure
you leave the world a better place, right, I mean,
I think it's not you. You cannot be consider yourself
(34:39):
a success at all if you've not done that. The
rest is just window dressing, right, I mean, can only
drive one car to time, that's as far as I know.
That's one of my one of my one of my
great lives with my friends is you know what, I may.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Never work hard enough, be smart enough, or just get that.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Lucky break to have my own private plane, I'm gonna
be damn sure to keep my friends that due perfect.
Just keep cooking for them. You gotta make so much
money to have a private place, like.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We say, whatever, better than what's better than owning a
boat is having a friend that owns a boat, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Totally so much better.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Kids.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
It doesn't work for kids.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Some people say that they don't like kids, and I
do think kids is a good investment. For the record,
my wife blames me. She's very proud that he's a
marine as well, but blames me. He went that way
because I did drill into my kids. Is what I
just spewed to you about giving back to leave the
world a better place, I had to serve. And he's like,
I'm gonna be a marine. No, no, no, too much service, lemonade, stamp,
(35:48):
chocolate chip, cookies, bake sale. No, not marine. She's such
your fault. Yea, we're so proud. It's like, what are
you gonna do? And then my other sons a senior
usc acting right, so you can't have more dysprid children.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I mean, yeah, do you have kids or not?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I do. I have a nine year old boy.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Okay, if you had another one, then you could talk
about how different they are, because.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
No, I have just the one.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
But he keeps us very busy. Okay, so before we
get to a lightning round, I just want to tell
you about the greatest.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Thing I ever did.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
This is the greatest thing I ever did. So I'm
turning forty. This is some years ago turning forty, and
you know, my husband's like, what do you want to do?
And I don't really want to have a party or
anything like that. And he said, well, we know what
your favorite thing to do is.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Let's go to restaurants. And I said, yeah, let's just
go to a great restaurant.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And he goes, you know, what's the best restaurant in
the world right now?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
We look it up and it's that year.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
It was Osteria Franciscana in Modena, Italy, and he said,
maybe we should go there. I said, great, Yes, I'm in.
This is a amazing, so indulgent.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
We're going to go to the best restaurant in the world.
Then he goes, you know, I'm looking at this list.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Number two is in Spain. Number three is in France.
What if we did all three?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
What those so? Well, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Fly into Barcelona, We'll do a road trip over seven days.
We'll start at El Sillard de Conroca in Girona, Spain.
Then we'll drive into the south of France and we'll
end up at Mirazour, which was the number two restaurant
or the number three restaurant at the time, just outside
of Monaco. And then we'll drive up to Modena, Italy
(37:38):
and end at the number one restaurant, Australia Frontiscana in
seven days. Now, when I say this was the greatest
thing I've ever done, I mean, like, I'm so proud
of us for doing this adventure, going on this adventure
and literally do like my favorite thing to do, the restaurants.
But I also mean it was a lot to do
(38:01):
three four hour dinners since every other day in seven days,
every other day we did split them up, but to
do twenty courses, you know what these meals are like,
you know, it's a performance. I mean, it was incredible,
but I was so overwhelmed. Oh but I mean it
(38:26):
was amazing, but it was also just overwhelming and it
made me realize how I mean, these experiences were not
just about what I was tasting, but about where I
was and the people and the smells and the sights.
And it was overwhelming in the best way. But today
still the greatest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, it sounds like it. I've never done three in
a row like that. Elboui was my finest meal ever.
I think that was a five hour, thirty six course meal.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Spain.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah and yeah lal Rosa, Spain. You never you never
looked at your watch. The time didn't matter. It just
kept going. Everything had an instruction and exploded or this
or that very east west actually, but I will tell
you the best thing I've ever eaten and uh, the
most humbling experience in the same in the same twenty minutes.
(39:23):
This is late Creer. Late Creer is inrans rancestry. Champagne
is made in friends. Jerrar Boye was a three star
mission chef at the time there. He's no longer there,
idyllic three star Michelin Augusta rolling greens, pine trees, white chateau.
At the end, we go for lunch. Polly my date
(39:44):
or girlfriend not wife at the time, soon to be
wife in a few years. We're staying at Hotel RINKYDNK
for one hundred bucks because you couldn't stay this relaining
chateau because we didn't have the money. But we go
for lunch is always cheaper and jusuy just as good, right,
and they show them menu.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
I went there because his signature dish is.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
A uh truffle golf ball sized probi one golf all
sized truffle wrapped in flog grab moves, wrapped in puff pastry,
baked in the ovens serve with a sauce pere gore.
It's one hundred dollars a plate.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
That's my dish.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And I was guided to go there because I just
did an event at Silks of Demand and Oriental where
I was soux chef with Jacques Pebert, and Jacques Pepert
is the truffle king of the world. He's in heaven now,
but his friend runs it and he was selling to
Jira Day and Duquees and robuchonp and Boyer and Keller
and everyone, And unbeknownst to me, he called Boyer and say, hey, listen,
(40:41):
as American chef friend of mine's coming to your restaurant.
You know, look after him. I didn't know he did.
I'm a soioux chef. This is a three star mission chef.
So I get there for lunch. They didn't have the
dish on the lunch menu. Tasting menu, and I'm like,
oh no, And I asked the major dze like, there's
anyway possible my broken French it wasn't great then, and
let me check it and because back she says, so
(41:04):
they send two of them out, like what And my
first thought is I can't have word two of them.
But anyway to them came out so like, well, you know,
it was kind of like squatter's right, so on the table,
Hey we take I mean I take it by a
see I can't. It's exactly how they claim food orgasm,
food high epiphany stars. I'm like, this is the best
(41:28):
thing I've ever eat.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
In my life.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
And I was a shoos cheve and I'm like, this
is why I want to be a chef. I mean,
I didn't know you could literally have an inside, outside
mind body experience from a bite of food. I gobble
mine up, like all of those chefs do. We all
think you have a fifteen second window between when perfect
food starts to career.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
French fries crackling on steak all I kill mine so good.
My wife's girlfriend she's she ate a third of use
and it's very rich, right, she liked it, but She's like,
I can't wave so much food coming. I'm like, okay,
So now i eat one point six seven balls of
love and I'm like, oh my god, this is so
it was so good. I excuse myself from the table.
(42:08):
I'm like, I'm going to have a moment to myself.
And if I smoked cigarettes, I would have let one up.
But I didn't smoke. So I walk out. I go
to the restroom and I go through some you know, first,
I go through a related chateau marble staircase to all
the beautiful thousand dollar rooms, a northery carved doorframe, and
there's a menjou. I look down the hallway and there's Boyer,
and so I go to the restroom. I'm like, oh
my god, I get to meet a three star milition chef,
(42:29):
first time, big deal R. So I'm okay, no, no
troubles in my teeths my hair, I do.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
I walk.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I take four steps towards him, and he's with Martine
is Maxine, his beautiful wife, having a stress. And I
stopped at the women's restroom and another doorframe. I'm thinking,
you know, he's having a moment with his wife. I
want to see the kitchen. Anyway, I'll tell him how
good Relatory's meal was. Later that's okay, I'll just go
back and I said, hey, another talkom. I run into
a full length mirror. I run into myself. There's a
(42:57):
doorframe with a mirror in it. And now he comes
running over and I speak. She's like like so like,
oh chante like next day as I'm holding my nose, like,
oh my god. And at that moment in life, I
see you the bust out laughing, your best out crying.
So I bust out laughing. I go back to the table.
I'm cracking out. My girl. Polly's like, what's so funny, goes,
(43:18):
I just met the chef. She goes, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
I just ran marriage, Because no, you did.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
She without hesitation, grabbed her instematic click click like, took
a picture of who my nose and four had left
grease smarks and gave it to me. Latest says, I
know one day you're going to become big watch out
for the mirrors. Remained humble, and the worst part was
the major d came over and said, monsieur, that happens
all the time, which is a crock of shit.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
That does not happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
And I didn't go see the kitchen because I couldn't
beat that guy there he is. There's a guy that
hit the mirror.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
So there's no kitchen tour today.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
That's a great story.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
But the bite, but the bite was revelatory. I mean
I wish I said I was five glasses in. I
was a glass and a half then, so isn't. I
was not drunk. I was just high from that bite.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yes, I believe it. I believe you. I know what
you're talking about. Okay, lightning round.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Okay, the bear. Do you watch entertaining? Okay, seventy five
percent accurate?
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Seventy five percent accurate. That's what I was gonna ask.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Okay, good, here's one quick one. No web beef placed
when it first started would have a pastry chef, right,
stuff like that. But the anxiety, the click click click
of the micro's ticker tape that that's real. Yes, yeah,
that's real.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That's true. And he like looks like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
That's real.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Best movie about cooking or food, so got so.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Many toss up between but BET's Feasts and Tempopo say
them again.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
The Beet's feast.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
French Revolutionary War is just the most sensual. This this
that made one money and she makes the most incredible
meal and it's just it's a beautiful food. And Tempopo
is a Japanese about the making the best bull of
Robin Brahmin. But it's erotic and delicious and hilarious too.
(45:25):
They make fun of the Japanese tradition and how CEOs classically.
I won't spoil thems classically in a boardroom, see your
orders whatever everyone else orders.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
So this went around to.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
The young kids, like, wait a minute, can I see
the white list? And this is something that would never happen,
but it's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Okay, I'll put those on my list. I like, I
like big Night.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, well that's such a just the end day the
I mean, yeah, it's so.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Classic French or Italian?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Wow, wow French. I mean I trained in France, eating
eating like on a monthly basis. I probably eat an
America more Italian because it's closer to Mediterranean, if you will, right, yes,
and for this French Mediterranean too, but it's definitely easier
to eat lighter Italian than lighter French in America.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
That makes sense best food destination.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So New York City is still the one with the
most variety, right, where New York City has has the variety. Now,
if you're an American, the other best food destination outside
of New York City is Tokyo or I should although
I'll digress. I would say Japan and actually Osaka over Tokyo.
(46:43):
They both have the same but Osaka has more variety
of restaurants and just as delicious, just on a smaller scale,
so it's significantly cheaper.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
But their food scene is absurd. Just the taco yaki.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Right, there's restaurants only you know, only elon rice.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
That's all they serve. That's all they serve.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
So don't don't go there with the fish allergy. That's
all they served, right.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
I mean, we had a side.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
We had a couple come in for a Lamb dinner
and the one of the woman would not to single
her out, but it was the woman. She's like, oh,
I don't eat lamb, And I'm like, can you please
ask her politely why the f is she had a
Lamb dinner? She doesn't eat lamb because every course has lamb.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Had a Lamb dinner.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I'm sorry if it's I'm sorry if we fooled her
with the title of the dinner, right, I mean it's
like dinner.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I know it's people like, well we figured you could.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
My god, God, anyway, some people, some people, some people,
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Right, best restaurant in Boston today, Oh.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It's all mood right, what do you want? I mean,
my god, there's so many. I think Ken Orange is
the best chef in Boston right now. He's got like
five or six restaurants. I love them all. Uni is
fantastic Japanese. Yeah, so Uni be Afar one of my
favorites of all of them. But then but then there's
(48:12):
Joanne Cheng who has Myers and Chang delicious Asian food.
But then she makes the most amazing bread and sweets
and cakes and cookies all over Boston.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
She's incredible as well.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
But then there's Tinks on It Boston's super her good sushi,
and said I liked him.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I recently went to Well, I've been to Banyan Bar
and Refuge, which I think is just really fine.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Okay, I have not been.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Oh it's good. It's over like theater district on Tremont.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
And then I just went for my birthday to dosav
On uh.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
On Calms across from across from Uni.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, good, and it was wonderful. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
It's elevated food, but they don't make it fussy, so
I could bring my son, you know, which I love
to do too.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
So it was good. But there's the restaurant scene in
Boston is exploding.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, there's a lot of good ones.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
There's a lot of good ones. What's the hardest thing
to cook for.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
A home cook?
Speaker 1 (49:13):
I think I think fish is the hardest thing for
a home cook to cook. I think people are a
lot of people are scared of cooking fish, and rightfully so,
because you could start with just bad fish, which rarely
happens with a bad steak or yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Right, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah, And there's such a variety and you have to
cook them all very differently, and yeah, seas.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And the one very simple tip whenever you go to
buy fish, and if it's a fishmonger, a whole foods
or a stopping shop, ask to ask them to put
fish on the wax paper so you can smell it
and you don't touch. It's still sanitary, right, even with
the mask on covida comes back. You can still smell it,
but it smells fishy. Go to another fish can't smell Fishy's
supposed to smell like the ocean. And that's and that's
(49:58):
and that smell test is all you need.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Eat you don't.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
And by the way, please, for God's sake, the worst.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Food poison ever get was from oysters.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If you're ever gonna eat raw oysters, and I love
roll oysters, you have to smell each one before you
put your minionetor any sauce on it, and make sure
it smells like you see And people always say, what
does a bad oyter smell like? Dude, you so know
what a bad smells like. There's no question it's a
bad oyster. And if you eat it, there's no question
you've just ruined forty eight hours of your life.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Oh at least as a new Englander. We've all been there.
I've been there.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
It's the worst wars.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
And please spit it out to a napkin. Don't worry
about the decorum.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I just taut get it out because did.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
You give yourself a day or two?
Speaker 1 (50:39):
But yeah, smell with your nose. Your nose knows everything.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
That's right. Okay.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
The final question that I always ask is the most
important to me culturally spiritually, when is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I drink ice coffee all the time.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
That's the correct answer. It's the correct.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Answer I do because I can't drink hot coffee all
the time.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
You can't drink six cups of coffee it gets absurd.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
No, And you can't drink in the afternoon. Yeah, in
the afternoon, I get I dic Starbucks boom gonde black
nothing simple.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
That's the correct answer is year round. You are correct.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Well, hang on, if you if you're going to cook
me a dish, what would you cook me?
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I do a couple things I would think so well.
I have a small repertoire. I do what I call
I call it a Shanghai tuna and it's a grilled
ahi tuna steak that I slice up nice so it's
raw on the inside, of course, pepper crusted on the outside.
And I serve it with peanut noodles and scallions. Okay,
(51:47):
it's just a nice dish. I do a I do
a pork on kotsu over rice that everyone in the
family loves because.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
That's easy, flower egg panco.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Flag, yes, egg flour panco exactly?
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Would you just call me plague?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I do it.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
And I do an excellent, excellent carbonara because I'm Italian
and uh that just passed down through the blood. So
I do an excellent carbonara, but with onions.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
So do you finish it in a standard steel bowl
the carbonara the eggnent bowl or.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Do you do everything finished in the pan? I've seen
both techniques.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
I finish it in the pan.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
You never use the standards.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
You don't have the side in the standard steel bowl
and got a good temperate I do not.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
I put it directly on the pasta and then I
toss it. Yeah, is that no good?
Speaker 4 (52:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I'm not actually not Italian.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
This is how I was taught.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
And I I add onions. I know that's a controversial
thing and regional, but for me, my carbonara must have onions.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, it's good. It's good.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
And I have to get to Portugal. That's the next
eating place I've not been to, which all my chef
friends have been to.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
Because Spain.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Spain talks about Porto and Lisbon is like amazing restaurants
and chefs Right now.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yes, I've got to go there too, but I want
to also come.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
I want to come out to Yellowstone.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Come out to Baba.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
You have to.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
You have to try my tea smoke peeking duck.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yes, I do, Yes, I do.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Okay, Well, this was an honor. I really am.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
I'm a big fan and I feel like, you know,
through like andover and Cornell and Boston.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
We've just been I've been following you.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah, that's that's awesome, and I catch you on the tube.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
Keep it up.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
It's a real pleasure I see. Really, congrats on all
your success.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Next week, I sit down with Gross Boye Garden Society's
Melissa Fumero.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
I was excited at the potential of doing something really different,
and I just thought the script was so fun to read,
and I wanted to know what happened next.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Off the Cup is.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
A production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Recent
Choice Network. I'm Your Hostess. Editing and sound designed by
Derek clements Or. Executive producers are met Si Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. If you like Off the Cup, please
rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Follow our
subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
I look at my dad much more pensive. A rocket
scientist is to remind you, and he looked at me
and goes, son, you weren't going to be a great
engineer anyway, Go go cook. Like wow, that's harsh.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, everybody, welcome to off the cup my personal anti
anxiety antidote.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So I don't talk about it a lot, but I'm
a foodie.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Not in the sense that I cook, because I don't
that often, but I love food, and specifically I love restaurants.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Okay, this is a niche genre.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
My husband's son always joke that going to restaurants is
my hobby, that's my pastime, and they're right.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's the thing I like to do the most.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And yes, I like fancy restaurants, but also a good
a good hole in the wall is just fine. It's
the experience of it, and I crave it like weekly.
When I retire, I want to spend all my time
traveling the world going to restaurants. So no surprise, I
love going to the restaurants of celebrity chefs, and many
(01:05):
years ago I went to one that was very high
on my bucket list, Blue Ginger in Wellesley, mass The owner,
chef was a long time favorite of mine, and I
got to say it was one of the best dining
experiences I've ever had. So I am so thrilled to
welcome ming Si to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Wow, thank you for the intro. I'm very happy to
be here. Pleasure to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I told you I'm a big fan.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Do you do you remember what did you eat? You
remember what you ate?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I had dumplings, I had miso.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Cod yeah, yeah, Chilian sea bass or the Black Coves Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, mes Chilian sea bass, yes, several other things.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
This was like fifteen years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, it's a while ago.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Anniversary with an ex boyfriend, so I don't talk about
it all that often.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
But I'm sorry. I hope it wasn't the food.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No, but I only got to go once and it
was so memorable.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
But I'm sad that I didn't get to go back
with my husband and my family.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
But that's okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
There's other Mensai restaurants to go to. So there's a
lot I want to talk to you about, including a
number of weird connections that we have. But first I
always like to start by asking what kind of kid
were you?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I was well behaved. I did not break rules. Having
said that, I was still sent off to prep school
by tenth grade, following my brother who's two years older,
so we were both at andover and I broke rules
there and got caught as well.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Tell me what rules you broke?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Just apparently you're not asked us to drink alcohol when
you're like sixteen and seventeen years old. I've heard that
I thought I was in Paris. That was my bad
and it was an andover Extera game and I was inebriated,
So yeah, bad, bad move and slapped and thank god
I got it together. But loved like being Mexican or
(03:06):
Chinese or Jewish or any immigrant. You love your parents,
you love your grandparents. You're always in the kitchen. That
was my life. It sounds cliche, but we literally made
dumplings together. We literally hung out in the kitchen. I literally,
as soon as I could walk, would be in the
kitchen because I like the smell, the sound, these scraps
of food that grandparents or parents would hand to me.
(03:27):
I was fascinated by it. It was just like this
is this is something that I'd.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Love to do.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And the statement I always make and I will repeat
it again to you is I was still am and
will always be hungry. So because of that, Yeah, I'm
a chef and I can honestly say I do not
think I've ever gone to bed hungry. Not happening.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh, I love that your mom was.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Your mom owned a Chinese restaurant, right, and your dad
was an engineer.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Yeah, bless her soul. She passes for ever. Unfortunately she was.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
She was a firecracker. She's the one that really lit
under me. Like, this is how you run a restaurant.
This is the best part about the restaurant, which is
if you can give great food at a great price
with the big smile, you end up getting loyal clientele,
loyal following, et cetera. And that doesn't matter if it's
a small manner in kitchen like in Dayton, Ohio, as
I always called the culinary capital of the world, or
(04:26):
in Paris or you know, La, New York, whatever, right
they are, but the premise is the same, right, it's people.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
It doesn't matter if you're billionaires.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
If you're someone you know that that's making twenty thousand dollars.
Everyone wants a value, and so t smoked peeking duck. Yeah,
granted it's eighty eight bucks, but it's a great value.
You're feeding sixty eight people, and so it really doesn't
matter if it's a hamburger or tea smoke peking duck.
Everyone everyone wants deliciousness for one and two of course
a value.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And was your mom in foraging of you to go
into the culinary arts, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Both mom and dad were Actually Dad was still is
at ninety five, a rocket scientist. He for the records
the side. Now we could talk about him for an hour.
He's he is a ninety five works full time. He
was just in Asia for a month with two ski poles,
seven countries, twelve meetings. He has his latest patent on
(05:25):
how to design better fuselages with composite materials. So that's
everything from tore the largest golfight graph manufacturer in the
world in Tokyo, to the largest drone manufacturer in China,
to air Bust to SpaceX to Ferrari and he's ninety five.
So that's my what's his secret? Di's such an easy secret,
(05:46):
so hard to do. He doesn't have stress. I've never stressed.
I've never like you know, we thought misplaced the tickets
to the cruise line. He's just like, no problem, not
my you know, my mom was slammer heels in the
marble floor here and across the across the kyn and
that he never stresses and it's and it does always work.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Out for him. And he still look even in ninety five.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
He still walks and he maybe swim still like twice,
you know, twice a week. And yeah he does eat well,
not overeat, but he's always eating well. And food is
you know, one of the reasons I'm a chef. His
parents and grandparents made food such a priority that we
would be going from like point eighty too, point B,
point C was Toronto, where there's a Chinatown, and we
(06:33):
were in Dane, Ohio, where there's no chinatown. We were
we had the three families over for our house for
dumpling making. That was Chinatown. That's that's how the Chinese
were in Dane, Ohio. And so we would bline way
the hell out of the way to get those pink
boxes right in Toronto. And every time we drive through
my parents, my mom is just relentlessly we go through
customs and she would insist and open up one of
(06:56):
these boxes a sachi mau, which is.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
These rice pastries and handed to the US.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Some people amazing, we love Canada and they're like, we're
actually American, ma'am, Like, okay, whatever, we love America. That's great.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So food was well, I mean, that's such a good
point about stress.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I have a severe anxiety disorder.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
We talk a lot about mental health on this podcast,
and I remember one time when I was describing some
of the things I was doing to my therapist, she.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Said, see, this could actually kill you.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
This anxiety, this constant state of adrenaline fight or flight,
could give you a heart attack.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And I don't think people think about in.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Those will yes, yes, but it was I mean, that
was earth shattering to me because it wasn't just this
isn't good for you, this isn't making you happy. It
was this could kill you. And there's a lot of
scientific research that.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Backs that up. So just one other reason I'm in therapy.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
You know what, I'm glad you brought up mental health.
Mental health, let's call it what you want. You know,
I spent a lot of time in Big Sky right
for four plus months a year, and one of the
highest demographics of suicides are males. Between eighteen and twenty
four at ski resorts. It's a crazy statue. Skis at
ski resorts and you think, how's that possible? Quite often
(08:21):
maybe from broken homes that by themselves they have no privacy, right,
they're always sharing a room or four to a room.
They don't have enough money to like go out to
the bars and restaurants on their two days off. Yeah,
they get a ski pass the two days. You add
drugs and alcohol to it with with no guardrails, you
can see how it spirals. And you know, one of
(08:41):
the things and I'm I'm I'm getting very involved. There's
a great friend of mine named Harris Schwarzburg who's a
fellow mombrow at Yellowstone and and you know, hats off
to Sam Burns, the who really is the owner of
Yellowstone Club. He's really taking the community. I mean he's
he is the community, right, not not him alone, but
he helped, he helped build a community. There's a community
(09:04):
center downtown Big Sky. It's the only building open after
six pm that doesn't serve alcohol. So that's a place
that everyone can gather and do sports and study. And
there's ice skating on the winter and it's that it's
a pandemic already, and it's not. And thank god the
last almost you know better than me. It only have
(09:25):
been the last two years when it's really been something
we can talk about openly, and so many people, everyone
has been touched by it. Of course, it's like cancer.
You don't know a person has not been touched by
about the illness. It's just not it's not possible this
day and age. It's just the world is so hard.
The world is getting harder, right, it's not getting easier.
(09:46):
One of my long term goals is I have to
is I want to do a cooking school called Happy
I want to do a book called Happy Chef Memoir,
but just about how you can look at life and
if you look at it through food. It's if your
goal that day is they have something delicious to eat.
Everything else falls aside, honestly because you're you're worried about
(10:08):
the rightness of the strawberries or whatever whatever it is.
But the one thing that's just so that people don't
think about it. If you're in high school or college,
and if you're a star athlete, or you're incredibly beautiful,
or you could sing, you could dance, you have incredible talent.
You're going to do fine in high school and college. Right,
(10:28):
there's no issues. But if you're the other sixty percent
of the student body that don't quite know what they
can do, they're not quite great at anything, they kind
of fall in the middle. And again, same thing. Like
skiers add drugs and alcohol and whatnot. You can you
add your parents are divorced, all thousands of reasons. But
(10:50):
you start getting depressed anxiety, and what happens is your
self worth goes to zero. Right, you think I can't
do anything, I have no self worth? Why am I
even here? And once you start asking that question, then
of course we're so the idea of their class. Just
imagine this. Let's say forty kids. Everyone gets their own
cutting or whatever, and we all everyone gets increased to
make a chocolate chip cookies. We all bake chocolate choke
(11:11):
cookies together and we actually do it, and they actually
eat it, and they're actually like, this isn't bad. This
is actually something I made. Now we take these cookies
and we go out on the street and then we
start handing them to people, and then they start noticing
people smile when they bite something that they actually made.
Then they're like, wait a minute, I actually have I
(11:32):
actually can do something to make someone else happy. Yeah,
that's a switch. And and then hopefully someone will be like,
you know what, this is something I can do. Because
cooking is one of the only professions you don't have
to have any natural talent. You can't just be out
to be an NBA star. You need to have a
lot of height and natural talent. Right, you can't be
dand there. You can't be a singer cooking though, if
(11:53):
you have two hands or even one hand, I've seen
one hand in chefs and a desire, you can become
a great chef. Yeah, right, And we all have a tongue.
We all have a palette. It's just how we train it.
But it's not like my tongue is better, faster, stronger
than yours. No, I've just eaten more different foods. But
anyone could do that. And I don't have any special
skill set to eat more different foods. So I mean
(12:13):
I do have money, that's helpful, but you know what
I mean, there's no there's no magic about being a
great chef. It's passion driven and everyone if they can
find their passion, and then this also so imagine these
people that can get placed into the one million cooking
jobs that have been vacated since COVID. So it's actually
(12:34):
producing a needed workforce, of getting people off of off
of the mets, off of self worth, and of course
off of you know, doubt, self doubt, because every everyone
could be a chef. Everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You mentioned our first connection, which is Andover.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I grew up in Andover. I didn't get county. I
was a towny if you must.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I went to a different private school, but I knew
lots of kids at Phillips.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I love that town. I love Andover.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Our second connection, you go to Cornell for grad school.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I went to Cornell for undergrad.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
In which school arts?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, hotel obviously right, And I want to ask, I mean,
for people who don't know, Cornell has one of, if
not the best hotel hospitality schools in the country.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's great. And I loved, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Going to the Statler and staying at the Statler and
eating at the Statler and it's just so cool.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
How did you find Cornell?
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Oh, tremendous. I was one of the youngest in the program.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was probably only like twenty five because it's a
graduate program, right, it's master's program.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yes, you would, and you would come from Yale.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I've come from Yale, but actually took two years inked
in Paris, which was which was my dream drive, and
once I graduated from college, I mean, actually, I can
give you a quick story. So both my parents obviously
are Chinese, born in Beijing, but they were both schooled
in the US college. My mom went to Nyu, my
dad went to Yo. Right, my grandfather actually went to Yale,
(14:17):
So I was legacy doesn't matter anymore back then and helped,
thank god, because I was not exactly chewing. My SAT
scores were like, not exactly stellar anyway, so they were
they were just cool Chinese parents, meaning they weren't the
traditional Chinese. Because now having said that, growing up, I
(14:37):
did have the rules. You could be anything you want son,
as long as the doctor, lawyer, engineer, right, you can
get okay, you can get any grades you want as
long as they're straight a's, and you can date anyone
you want.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
We preferred Chinese.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
So I married Polly, who is pretty beautiful and wonderful
and Caucasian as you for. She's actually super welsome. Dayton Ohio,
but does the fluid Chinese. So she actually, ironically, my
parents said her accents better than me.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
I'm like, say, what do we talk about it anyway? Anyway?
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So I'm oh, for three, I failed on all of
that right straight and forget about it. But I did graduated,
but I did take engineering. I do have a mechanical
engineering degree, so that worked out. But imagine, so every
summer I started going to Paris. Right, they knew I
liked to cook, right, and my dad's partner, Tarima, sorry,
I had a place in Paris I could stay for free.
So I started cooking there, doing apprenticeships, eventually worked there.
(15:31):
So it was no shock when I sat him down
right before senior year started, like I want to be
a chef. I'm going to finish my degree. I want
to move to Paris a week after graduation and go cook.
And my mom, if you've ever seen her on my show,
you know, God bless her. She was mostly brilliant, vivacious.
She would make fun of my dumplings and like, mom,
this is my show, because that doesn't they don't look perfect.
(15:53):
That's just she was awesome. She was really, she was fantastic.
My son who's done some shows with me, is equally good.
She he likes to dis me as well, and so
she gave me a big hug. She's like, look, you're
so lucky that at such a young age, you know
you you love something, you'd love to do it, you
follow your you know, follow your passion. Give one hundred
ten percent holy support you. I look at my dad
(16:14):
much more pensive A rocket scientist is to remind you.
And he looked at me and goes, son, you weren't
going to be a great engineer anyway, go go cook Like, wow,
that's hard.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
She goes, Am I wrong?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And he's so right. If you don't love what you do,
you have no chance of being good forget about being
great at it. You have no chance to be good
at it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
And it did. It has come full circle.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Right right before COVID, I was doing probably six years
of HSN and I actually enjoyed doing that. I was
designing kitchen equipment, so I literally was using p vehicles
on our team and all my all my engineering actimen
that I had left in designing and designing stuff. So
it actually I actually got to use the engineering degree
after all.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, not a waste for sure never, So then.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Why Wellesley? You know again, I'm from Massachusetts. Great food scene,
especially now, but not so much. I think back when
you I.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Had, I had critics like, you're going to the suburbs.
What are you doing? Yeah, the Boston was just getting hot, right,
Ken Orangers just opening up Cleo and you know, Todd
was on fire.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And yes, and was coming Barb was.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Killing it and yeah, and I wanted the fame and
glory of the city restaurant. I wanted that buzz and
all that. But honestly, I started just really looking at
costs for one, but looking at where there was no competition.
I will have to hats off to Cornell for teaching
that in one of the marketing classes. I mean, they
didn't teach the big fish small fish, you know, analogy,
(17:46):
but that's what it is. Yeah, you could be a
mediocre fish in the suburbs and you will kill it.
And and honestly, it was my buddy Todd English who
had to fix Alvion Wellesley. And I called him and
he was serving pizza on an upside down sheet train.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
His line are.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Out the door and his piece is good. But it
wasn't like Revelatory. You know Elbuie right, and he's like,
and Todd knew me. He goes, dude, you do your fruit.
You won't. You will never not be busy. So I I,
my ex system law found the spot. It was the
Wellesley Market grocery store, which I already meat. That meant growth,
(18:20):
that meant a walking clues in the basement, lots of space,
d da da got it for a song and and
it worked.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
It worked. I was right downtown Wallseley. There was parking everywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I did a style of food that no one was doing.
But it wasn't just a Chinese restaurant, right, it was
East West and you've been there and it was very approachable. Right.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
I did fry calamari.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Everyone did. I did, but I did my own right.
And of course I do raw dishes for my training
in Japan and whatnot. Uh and I and I took
a lot of time and energy because it really needed
something that really a thoughtful wineless that went with the food,
and really good crafted cocktails for the experience. And keep
it and keep paper on the tables, right, no one
will I have to put on I remember when I
(19:01):
first opened, I got caught over by this older couple
and it's really gruff and he's like, you know, it's
just meal is delicious suggestion my cuff and my jacket
keeps getting caught on your paper, you know, I suggest
maybe tablecloths. And I said, sir, no disrespect, many suggest
you take off your jacket. Your jacket walked away because
(19:24):
no one else has happening this problem because no one
else is wearing a jacket, dude. So that's okay, that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So the first year you open your name Chef of
the Year by Esquire magazine.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Correct, was that a lot of pressure?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Oh? It was. It was more of a surprising pressure. Honestly,
it just it just happened. I mean, I mean, I'm
not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
I was. I was tickled. Pick.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I was very proud that just out the door in
the first year, that that could happen.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
When how old were you?
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's ninety eight, sixty four, so thirty four and wow,
and you know, I mean everything happened to Ida, right.
I opened restaurant in February, very proudly got three stars
in the Boston Globe for the restaurant before TV and
all the other stuff came up. Because yeah, you know,
I am still a chef first. I love everything that
(20:13):
they do after that, but I'm a chef first. That's
the most important thing I do. But I do enjoy
I've always enjoyed doing simple thing and all the shows
that I've done because I'm teaching.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Oh and you're so good at them. It's you're making
like everything's so accessible. But you know it looks so good.
I mean, I really do. I would credit you with
the sort of heightening of the Asian fusion just explosion,
because I mean, you just made it all look so good.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
No, well, thank there are a lot of you. Look,
I I was sartinly walking in Martin Yan's footsteps. Martin
was the think of Asians on TV besides the ones
I could break boards and but Martin was the first
one that you know, co tricial Chinese food. Julia, of course,
was the one that we all loved because she just
(21:05):
she's she made it so okay to be yourself. You're
going to screw up in the kitchen. I mean she
dropped a freaking chicken on the ground and picked them
back up like.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
No one's looking, and she just keeps going.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It's which is amazing, right, I mean, come on. And
I took a lot from that because I can't take myself.
So I'm just making food, right, I'm not making nuclear bombs.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I'm not I'm not getting the cure for cancer. I
wish I had that bandwidth.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But although I don't wish, probably because because my mind
is as as my wife says, it's really immediate gratification
when you open. When when you own a restaurant, the
places come back clean or come back filled with food.
Restaurant's busy or it's not. It's very simple. You don't
need to, like I wonder how we're doing.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
It's pretty obvious, right right, So if.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Then knock on what I don't know what it's like
to be in a restaurant that it's not busy, That
would that would really stink to be perf on us.
But when you're in it and on all cylinders, there's
there's not a better feeling because because you do get
you are part of the reason people are so happy
that day in that restaurant. Yes, what a what a
what I mean musicians a rights are so many people
(22:17):
have that same But but Picasso, I don't know if
he ever knew the people he really made happy, right,
the ever met them, right, right, you know, and of
course Bono sees you know, fifty thousand people, so that
that's obvious. But it's different, right because it's actually, yeah,
going inside of you, right, you're actually eating it. It's
part of becoming part of you, oh totally. And that's
(22:40):
which is the best part about food. And there's not
a better way to share anything. It has to be
overbred o bowl of rice, which is what, of course
right now this world needs. Unfortunately, unjokingly, we have such
real problems in this world and you can't get everyone
to a dinner table. Soon it's gonna go gonzo. I
(23:00):
hear you scary stuffs.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So I'm friends with a bunch of celebrity chefs, and
I hear there's a sort of frustration with TV that
it's like all competition shows now and less about cooking.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
What are your thoughts, It is certainly what's paying the
bills competition shows.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
And I have guilty of charge. I played along as well.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Right I did, And I like watching them.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I love doing Iron Chef with Netflix. That was such
a fun fun thing. And I just judged again Tournament
Champions guys show guy, I think guy's fantastic. He's yeah,
he's like forty eight percent of the food that wragant.
Bobby's the other forty eight percent. Then there's exactly and
it's just like, at least it's not white males. Oh yeah,
(23:50):
maybe sort of anyway. And hats off to both of them.
I mean, hats off to Bobby. He talked about someone
that is just right right. He was like under Emerald
shadow and then always this, but.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, he didn't care, he just.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Came, Oh it is Bobby.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
He's fantastic guy too.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
The guy guy has the most amazing setup with his
warehouse and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
The one thing that's so fascinating is his hats off
to you.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Women. Tournament of Champions and if you know, it's sixty
four chefs East and the West. They all compete for
five years running. Season six just happened. I can't say
what happened. For five years running, every finalist has been
a woman. There's never been a male finalist in five years.
So in this format, which is like you know, mystery
(24:34):
basket randomized you thirty forty minutes to cook, women are better.
They and I know why, I know exactly why women Why? Well,
women are smarter. I'm not just saying that because you're
on the women are and women keep it simple stupid, right,
I'll just spend it like.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
I'm gonna do this and this and two sauces in
this garnish of that and.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
One is like I'm going to cook the fish perfectly.
One if they do taste sauce and a garnt and
that's and they and they do, and they nail it
and they keep winning because they and keep it simple
stupid because they're women. And that's been like I could
do I gotta make bagels and they're like, no, I've
half an hour, right, that's one of my chef friends
(25:13):
did it at forty minutes, made bagels. Let me come on, dude,
really no you don't know? Yeah, yeah, no, I could
do that. I could do so playing a minute. Yeah yeah,
so flazy. Yeah, because that's just get your egg whites.
That's that's why bajaml killia that that that would be
a bagels now I think anyway, so so, but but
it's women.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Think of women. How did you How did you meet
your wife?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I met my wife a long time ago, nineteen eighty three, right,
so we're talking about forty one years ago. And she
was the youngest sister of six and the Tallbots. Tallbots
is a squashed family in America. Mark Talbot was the
world champion for twelve years. The young brother, David Talbot
(26:00):
was the yel squash coach and I was his first
class in eighty three. And so David was there Hollywood
studying Chinese at CU Boulder. Randomly decided to take Chinese.
She actually lived literally apart three from me in Danton,
Ohio and Oakwood and I lived in Kettering. We never
met there. She was born in Dane, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
And wait, and she decided to take Chinese. She didn't
know you. This was on her.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
She didn't know she was.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
She was at CU Boulder.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
She goes to a couple classes econ that's like twelve
hundred people classes, five hundred people class. He's like, no, no, no,
I need classes like ten.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
And she's like, oh, I bet you.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
A lot of people don't take Chinese, and she says,
I want to learn to try.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
And then she ends up meeting a great guy that
ended up taking Japanese.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
So her roommate, fun enough as a side digression, is
Ivan Orkan, who is the famous Long Island Jew that
decided to go to Tokyo and make the best bowl of
ramen in Tokyo. You must know of his whole story.
He has Ivan Ramen in New York, right right, So
go gole. So that's Ivan Oregon happened to be my
White's roommate because they met at a Green Peace rally.
It's you, Boulder, just completely random anyway. So my wife's
(27:05):
studying Chinese and my my brother in law, who unfortunately
is now also it happened.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
It's been just a shitty year and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And he's like, you got to meet this Chinese guy
on my team.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
He speaks Chinese. He's a dead head. He's I think
you may like him. Da da da.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
And so we meet and she had the same smile
and I knew. I literally thought the day I met
her in the squash off was like, oh okay, yep,
that's the one. I really thought that. And for ten
years I followed her, wrote her postcards. I mean with
my girlfriend in Tokyo, like thinking of you. I mean,
you know, nothing bad, but I was just thinking of her.
I was just being honest, said, I sent her a
(27:40):
care package and when she was in Beijing with her boyfriend,
like chocolates and stuff, and yeah, enough for him, though,
I'm not rude that that's enough for him.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, that's that's an even better move exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So I had him San Francisco and then yeah, I
ended up both single for a brief second and the
rest is history.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And now we're we've been married twenty nine years.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I have to imagine there are a lot of perks
being married to a famous chef, but I also have
to imagine it's hard as well.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
What's it like for her?
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yes, I think I think the perks are awesome. I
think all of us chefs get great perks being chefs.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Right, food and travel.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, it's one of the it's one of the best
fraternities I've seen. I mean, I bet, I don't know.
I'm not a marine, I'm not a c I'm not right.
I mean, you think about all the other closeness of
a group of people, chefs, where you so take care
of each other. And what's the best thing in the
world anyway, if you have all the money in the world,
it's your next bite. It's not how fast your car
(28:53):
is going to go. I agree, right, it's it's your
next bite, your next gosspel w I know whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yes, the uh, it depends on what part of my.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Career, honestly, because when I was shooting Ming's Quest, this
is pre nine to eleven, I'd be gone for.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Two three weeks at a pop shooting.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah. But David, who is now proudly a marine, He's
going to be stationed somewhere in three months, which is
scary as shit because it's going on in this world. Yeah,
and the Marines are the first ones to go in
to see if it's crazy or not.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
They're like, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Okay, thank you, we're here.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, we're so proud and scared shit list to be honest.
But the one thing I luckily did, and this is
a perk that came by opening in the suburbs. I
was done by nine point thirty, right, Right, So I
if I had a city restaurant, I'm home at one, right,
that's a bit. Then you don't see spouse and then
(29:48):
in the morning you're sleeping, and then you don't see kids.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And right, was that part of your calculation too? Opening
in the suburbs.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
As soon as soon as I thought it soon before
I sign everything. That that was definitely part of level,
and it was part of the scary part of it,
because are there enough sophisticated diners out here that are
going to enjoy my food?
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So that was the risk, right, But.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Then I realized, like, look, I don't care if you're rich,
but if you're well traveled, you like good food. And
I know my food is good, and I'm going to
price it such that you can come every week.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's not a special occasion.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I don't want to find dining paper on the tables, right,
And so that was and I'm lucky because I would
go one or two o'clock to work. We did do lunch,
so you know, once lunch started, it was fine. It
ran itself. Do the new dishes, do my meetings, do
whatever interview is, taste the line, do my upfront and
these guys coming into it. And I'd leave for about
(30:38):
an hour, like between a quarter quarter six a quarter
of seven, because restaurant doesn't start get busy till six thirty, right,
So that I would because I was only four point
one miles away, So I come home, make dinner for
the kids, and then go back to work. Wow. So
that was such a much more normal life for both
my wife and my kids, because otherwise, you know, and
(31:01):
I tried. I wanted to be a New York City restaurant, right,
and that would have been literally work until two and
everything that comes with it. And this is how you
get to the tops, and that's you get your mischelon
stars and and it's a different path and but you
got there. But it worked out well. I did never
got a Mission star, but I paper on the tables.
But although it doesn't matter. You can serve oysters on
the street. Now we get a Michelin star.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
So I mean, I think Michelin stars are great.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
They're great, they're great.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
But I think you've made so many people so happy
as both a chef and a television chef.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
I mean, I would not look down on anything.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
You got it again, It's my wife would joke. She goes,
how is how is the ming love Fest today? I'm like, oh,
it's fine, honey, that's very funny. And but I tell you,
when Food Network first came out, it was crazy, right
because they only had like five or six of us shows.
(31:59):
They would play each of us three times a day
time and then the afternoon and then like and at
two am, so all the cooks would see it too,
because now the ones that are up at two as
so everyone.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Saw these shows.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It was absurd And I say this all the time.
It did not make me a better chef, right, I
just happened to become the chef that's in the black box.
So now I'm the authority on Asian East West cuisine
and at least six hundred chefs can cook me under
the table in this country, full stop, one hundred percent.
I just happen to have got the platform. And as
you can tell, I really do enjoy doing it. I
(32:33):
like teaching.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I like I like.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I've never shied away from the lifetime. I don't even
think about the limelin. I just think about here's an
opportunity to teach. And now, as you can tell, with
both mental illness and i'd be remissed by I can't
talk about my other huge cause called Family Reach and
please go to Familyreach dot org to check it out.
But Family Reach were the only national charity that financial
helps family's dealing with cancer. The number one cause of
(32:57):
personal bankruptcy today is still a cancer diagnosis to a family,
and mag it's not about Obamacare. Thank god, there's healthcare.
It's about your two families. Mom and dad both work.
Assuming you have a mom and dad, they both work,
they each make a one hundred K. That's a really
well off American family. But then the kid gets cancer.
So then mom, the more nurturing, stops working. Now in
(33:18):
comes half to one hundred. But you still have your
two car payments, maybe private school, whatever, whatever, doesn't matter.
You went to Harvard or Yale, you become broke even
if you start at that level.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Imagine now if you're.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Fifty five K, you get a cancer diagnosis, then once
you're homeless in our system, you're basically forgotten. You're done.
So family reaches and I'm so proud I've been with them.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I've thirteen years.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I've raised over twelve million dollars for them through food,
through a great event called Cooking Live. I go to
all these cities, on twenty two of them around the country.
We bring chefs and we have families there and we talk,
of course about guy Fiery and I did the last
one and here in Boston raised a million. And we
have something called the Financial Resource Center. Now because it's
a systemic problem. Now, the inequity of this country, the
(34:02):
inequity of the world is when you're sick, it's it's
exponentially worse, right, And you basically if you're poor, give
a much less chance of surviving than if you're rich,
which is so wrong.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
That's not the way. It's not. There's no period of
there so families I'm so proud of.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And but that's the whole point was because like you
as well, you have a platform as well, right, you
have people that love you, and and it is such
a responsibility that if you have that platform to to
guide it and do something with it to make sure
you leave the world a better place, right, I mean,
I think it's not you. You cannot be consider yourself
(34:39):
a success at all if you've not done that. The
rest is just window dressing, right, I mean, can only
drive one car to time, that's as far as I know.
That's one of my one of my one of my
great lives with my friends is you know what, I may.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Never work hard enough, be smart enough, or just get that.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Lucky break to have my own private plane, I'm gonna
be damn sure to keep my friends that due perfect.
Just keep cooking for them. You gotta make so much
money to have a private place, like.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
We say, whatever, better than what's better than owning a
boat is having a friend that owns a boat, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Totally so much better.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Kids.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
It doesn't work for kids.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Some people say that they don't like kids, and I
do think kids is a good investment. For the record,
my wife blames me. She's very proud that he's a
marine as well, but blames me. He went that way
because I did drill into my kids. Is what I
just spewed to you about giving back to leave the
world a better place, I had to serve. And he's like,
I'm gonna be a marine. No, no, no, too much service, lemonade, stamp,
(35:48):
chocolate chip, cookies, bake sale. No, not marine. She's such
your fault. Yea, we're so proud. It's like, what are
you gonna do? And then my other sons a senior
usc acting right, so you can't have more dysprid children.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
I mean, yeah, do you have kids or not?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I do. I have a nine year old boy.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Okay, if you had another one, then you could talk
about how different they are, because.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
No, I have just the one.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
But he keeps us very busy. Okay, so before we
get to a lightning round, I just want to tell
you about the greatest.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Thing I ever did.
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Thanks for sharing.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
This is the greatest thing I ever did. So I'm
turning forty. This is some years ago turning forty, and
you know, my husband's like, what do you want to do?
And I don't really want to have a party or
anything like that. And he said, well, we know what
your favorite thing to do is.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Let's go to restaurants. And I said, yeah, let's just
go to a great restaurant.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And he goes, you know, what's the best restaurant in
the world right now?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
We look it up and it's that year.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
It was Osteria Franciscana in Modena, Italy, and he said,
maybe we should go there. I said, great, Yes, I'm in.
This is a amazing, so indulgent.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
We're going to go to the best restaurant in the world.
Then he goes, you know, I'm looking at this list.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Number two is in Spain. Number three is in France.
What if we did all three?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
What those so? Well, Well, we'll.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Fly into Barcelona, We'll do a road trip over seven days.
We'll start at El Sillard de Conroca in Girona, Spain.
Then we'll drive into the south of France and we'll
end up at Mirazour, which was the number two restaurant
or the number three restaurant at the time, just outside
of Monaco. And then we'll drive up to Modena, Italy
(37:38):
and end at the number one restaurant, Australia Frontiscana in
seven days. Now, when I say this was the greatest
thing I've ever done, I mean, like, I'm so proud
of us for doing this adventure, going on this adventure
and literally do like my favorite thing to do, the restaurants.
But I also mean it was a lot to do
(38:01):
three four hour dinners since every other day in seven days,
every other day we did split them up, but to
do twenty courses, you know what these meals are like,
you know, it's a performance. I mean, it was incredible,
but I was so overwhelmed. Oh but I mean it
(38:26):
was amazing, but it was also just overwhelming and it
made me realize how I mean, these experiences were not
just about what I was tasting, but about where I
was and the people and the smells and the sights.
And it was overwhelming in the best way. But today
still the greatest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, it sounds like it. I've never done three in
a row like that. Elboui was my finest meal ever.
I think that was a five hour, thirty six course meal.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Spain.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah and yeah lal Rosa, Spain. You never you never
looked at your watch. The time didn't matter. It just
kept going. Everything had an instruction and exploded or this
or that very east west actually, but I will tell
you the best thing I've ever eaten and uh, the
most humbling experience in the same in the same twenty minutes.
(39:23):
This is late Creer. Late Creer is inrans rancestry. Champagne
is made in friends. Jerrar Boye was a three star
mission chef at the time there. He's no longer there,
idyllic three star Michelin Augusta rolling greens, pine trees, white chateau.
At the end, we go for lunch. Polly my date
(39:44):
or girlfriend not wife at the time, soon to be
wife in a few years. We're staying at Hotel RINKYDNK
for one hundred bucks because you couldn't stay this relaining
chateau because we didn't have the money. But we go
for lunch is always cheaper and jusuy just as good, right,
and they show them menu.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
I went there because his signature dish is.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
A uh truffle golf ball sized probi one golf all
sized truffle wrapped in flog grab moves, wrapped in puff pastry,
baked in the ovens serve with a sauce pere gore.
It's one hundred dollars a plate.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
That's my dish.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And I was guided to go there because I just
did an event at Silks of Demand and Oriental where
I was soux chef with Jacques Pebert, and Jacques Pepert
is the truffle king of the world. He's in heaven now,
but his friend runs it and he was selling to
Jira Day and Duquees and robuchonp and Boyer and Keller
and everyone, And unbeknownst to me, he called Boyer and say, hey, listen,
(40:41):
as American chef friend of mine's coming to your restaurant.
You know, look after him. I didn't know he did.
I'm a soioux chef. This is a three star mission chef.
So I get there for lunch. They didn't have the
dish on the lunch menu. Tasting menu, and I'm like,
oh no, And I asked the major dze like, there's
anyway possible my broken French it wasn't great then, and
let me check it and because back she says, so
(41:04):
they send two of them out, like what And my
first thought is I can't have word two of them.
But anyway to them came out so like, well, you know,
it was kind of like squatter's right, so on the table,
Hey we take I mean I take it by a
see I can't. It's exactly how they claim food orgasm,
food high epiphany stars. I'm like, this is the best
(41:28):
thing I've ever eat.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
In my life.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
And I was a shoos cheve and I'm like, this
is why I want to be a chef. I mean,
I didn't know you could literally have an inside, outside
mind body experience from a bite of food. I gobble
mine up, like all of those chefs do. We all
think you have a fifteen second window between when perfect
food starts to career.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
French fries crackling on steak all I kill mine so good.
My wife's girlfriend she's she ate a third of use
and it's very rich, right, she liked it, but She's like,
I can't wave so much food coming. I'm like, okay,
So now i eat one point six seven balls of
love and I'm like, oh my god, this is so
it was so good. I excuse myself from the table.
(42:08):
I'm like, I'm going to have a moment to myself.
And if I smoked cigarettes, I would have let one up.
But I didn't smoke. So I walk out. I go
to the restroom and I go through some you know, first,
I go through a related chateau marble staircase to all
the beautiful thousand dollar rooms, a northery carved doorframe, and
there's a menjou. I look down the hallway and there's Boyer,
and so I go to the restroom. I'm like, oh
my god, I get to meet a three star milition chef,
(42:29):
first time, big deal R. So I'm okay, no, no
troubles in my teeths my hair, I do.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
I walk.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
I take four steps towards him, and he's with Martine
is Maxine, his beautiful wife, having a stress. And I
stopped at the women's restroom and another doorframe. I'm thinking,
you know, he's having a moment with his wife. I
want to see the kitchen. Anyway, I'll tell him how
good Relatory's meal was. Later that's okay, I'll just go
back and I said, hey, another talkom. I run into
a full length mirror. I run into myself. There's a
(42:57):
doorframe with a mirror in it. And now he comes
running over and I speak. She's like like so like,
oh chante like next day as I'm holding my nose, like,
oh my god. And at that moment in life, I
see you the bust out laughing, your best out crying.
So I bust out laughing. I go back to the table.
I'm cracking out. My girl. Polly's like, what's so funny, goes,
(43:18):
I just met the chef. She goes, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
I just ran marriage, Because no, you did.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
She without hesitation, grabbed her instematic click click like, took
a picture of who my nose and four had left
grease smarks and gave it to me. Latest says, I
know one day you're going to become big watch out
for the mirrors. Remained humble, and the worst part was
the major d came over and said, monsieur, that happens
all the time, which is a crock of shit.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
That does not happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
And I didn't go see the kitchen because I couldn't
beat that guy there he is. There's a guy that
hit the mirror.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
So there's no kitchen tour today.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
That's a great story.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
But the bite, but the bite was revelatory. I mean
I wish I said I was five glasses in. I
was a glass and a half then, so isn't. I
was not drunk. I was just high from that bite.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yes, I believe it. I believe you. I know what
you're talking about. Okay, lightning round.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Okay, the bear. Do you watch entertaining? Okay, seventy five
percent accurate?
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Seventy five percent accurate. That's what I was gonna ask.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Okay, good, here's one quick one. No web beef placed
when it first started would have a pastry chef, right,
stuff like that. But the anxiety, the click click click
of the micro's ticker tape that that's real. Yes, yeah,
that's real.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That's true. And he like looks like, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
That's real.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Best movie about cooking or food, so got so.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Many toss up between but BET's Feasts and Tempopo say
them again.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
The Beet's feast.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
French Revolutionary War is just the most sensual. This this
that made one money and she makes the most incredible
meal and it's just it's a beautiful food. And Tempopo
is a Japanese about the making the best bull of
Robin Brahmin. But it's erotic and delicious and hilarious too.
(45:25):
They make fun of the Japanese tradition and how CEOs classically.
I won't spoil thems classically in a boardroom, see your
orders whatever everyone else orders.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
So this went around to.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
The young kids, like, wait a minute, can I see
the white list? And this is something that would never happen,
but it's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Okay, I'll put those on my list. I like, I
like big Night.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yeah, well that's such a just the end day the
I mean, yeah, it's so.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Classic French or Italian?
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Wow, wow French. I mean I trained in France, eating
eating like on a monthly basis. I probably eat an
America more Italian because it's closer to Mediterranean, if you will, right, yes,
and for this French Mediterranean too, but it's definitely easier
to eat lighter Italian than lighter French in America.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
That makes sense best food destination.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So New York City is still the one with the
most variety, right, where New York City has has the variety. Now,
if you're an American, the other best food destination outside
of New York City is Tokyo or I should although
I'll digress. I would say Japan and actually Osaka over Tokyo.
(46:43):
They both have the same but Osaka has more variety
of restaurants and just as delicious, just on a smaller scale,
so it's significantly cheaper.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
But their food scene is absurd. Just the taco yaki.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Right, there's restaurants only you know, only elon rice.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
That's all they serve. That's all they serve.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
So don't don't go there with the fish allergy. That's
all they served, right.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
I mean, we had a side.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
We had a couple come in for a Lamb dinner
and the one of the woman would not to single
her out, but it was the woman. She's like, oh,
I don't eat lamb, And I'm like, can you please
ask her politely why the f is she had a
Lamb dinner? She doesn't eat lamb because every course has lamb.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Had a Lamb dinner.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I'm sorry if it's I'm sorry if we fooled her
with the title of the dinner, right, I mean it's
like dinner.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I know it's people like, well we figured you could.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
My god, God, anyway, some people, some people, some people,
you know.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Right, best restaurant in Boston today, Oh.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It's all mood right, what do you want? I mean,
my god, there's so many. I think Ken Orange is
the best chef in Boston right now. He's got like
five or six restaurants. I love them all. Uni is
fantastic Japanese. Yeah, so Uni be Afar one of my
favorites of all of them. But then but then there's
(48:12):
Joanne Cheng who has Myers and Chang delicious Asian food.
But then she makes the most amazing bread and sweets
and cakes and cookies all over Boston.
Speaker 4 (48:22):
She's incredible as well.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
But then there's Tinks on It Boston's super her good sushi,
and said I liked him.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I recently went to Well, I've been to Banyan Bar
and Refuge, which I think is just really fine.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
Okay, I have not been.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Oh it's good. It's over like theater district on Tremont.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
And then I just went for my birthday to dosav
On uh.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
On Calms across from across from Uni.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, good, and it was wonderful. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
It's elevated food, but they don't make it fussy, so
I could bring my son, you know, which I love
to do too.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
So it was good. But there's the restaurant scene in
Boston is exploding.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, there's a lot of good ones.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
There's a lot of good ones. What's the hardest thing
to cook for.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
A home cook?
Speaker 1 (49:13):
I think I think fish is the hardest thing for
a home cook to cook. I think people are a
lot of people are scared of cooking fish, and rightfully so,
because you could start with just bad fish, which rarely
happens with a bad steak or yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Right, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah, And there's such a variety and you have to
cook them all very differently, and yeah, seas.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And the one very simple tip whenever you go to
buy fish, and if it's a fishmonger, a whole foods
or a stopping shop, ask to ask them to put
fish on the wax paper so you can smell it
and you don't touch. It's still sanitary, right, even with
the mask on covida comes back. You can still smell it,
but it smells fishy. Go to another fish can't smell Fishy's
supposed to smell like the ocean. And that's and that's
(49:58):
and that smell test is all you need.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Eat you don't.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
And by the way, please, for God's sake, the worst.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Food poison ever get was from oysters.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
If you're ever gonna eat raw oysters, and I love
roll oysters, you have to smell each one before you
put your minionetor any sauce on it, and make sure
it smells like you see And people always say, what
does a bad oyter smell like? Dude, you so know
what a bad smells like. There's no question it's a
bad oyster. And if you eat it, there's no question
you've just ruined forty eight hours of your life.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Oh at least as a new Englander. We've all been there.
I've been there.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
It's the worst wars.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
And please spit it out to a napkin. Don't worry
about the decorum.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I just taut get it out because did.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
You give yourself a day or two?
Speaker 1 (50:39):
But yeah, smell with your nose. Your nose knows everything.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
That's right. Okay.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
The final question that I always ask is the most
important to me culturally spiritually, when is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I drink ice coffee all the time.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
That's the correct answer. It's the correct.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Answer I do because I can't drink hot coffee all
the time.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
You can't drink six cups of coffee it gets absurd.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
No, And you can't drink in the afternoon. Yeah, in
the afternoon, I get I dic Starbucks boom gonde black
nothing simple.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
That's the correct answer is year round. You are correct.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Well, hang on, if you if you're going to cook
me a dish, what would you cook me?
Speaker 3 (51:24):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I do a couple things I would think so well.
I have a small repertoire. I do what I call
I call it a Shanghai tuna and it's a grilled
ahi tuna steak that I slice up nice so it's
raw on the inside, of course, pepper crusted on the outside.
And I serve it with peanut noodles and scallions. Okay,
(51:47):
it's just a nice dish. I do a I do
a pork on kotsu over rice that everyone in the
family loves because.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
That's easy, flower egg panco.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Flag, yes, egg flour panco exactly?
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Would you just call me plague?
Speaker 3 (52:05):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
I do it.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
And I do an excellent, excellent carbonara because I'm Italian
and uh that just passed down through the blood. So
I do an excellent carbonara, but with onions.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
So do you finish it in a standard steel bowl
the carbonara the eggnent bowl or.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Do you do everything finished in the pan? I've seen
both techniques.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
I finish it in the pan.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
You never use the standards.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
You don't have the side in the standard steel bowl
and got a good temperate I do not.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
I put it directly on the pasta and then I
toss it. Yeah, is that no good?
Speaker 4 (52:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I'm not actually not Italian.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
This is how I was taught.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
And I I add onions. I know that's a controversial
thing and regional, but for me, my carbonara must have onions.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, it's good. It's good.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
And I have to get to Portugal. That's the next
eating place I've not been to, which all my chef
friends have been to.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
Because Spain.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
Spain talks about Porto and Lisbon is like amazing restaurants
and chefs Right now.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yes, I've got to go there too, but I want
to also come.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
I want to come out to Yellowstone.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Come out to Baba.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
You have to.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
You have to try my tea smoke peeking duck.
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yes, I do, Yes, I do.
Speaker 4 (53:14):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Okay, Well, this was an honor. I really am.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
I'm a big fan and I feel like, you know,
through like andover and Cornell and Boston.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
We've just been I've been following you.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah, that's that's awesome, and I catch you on the tube.
Speaker 4 (53:30):
Keep it up.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
It's a real pleasure I see. Really, congrats on all
your success.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Next week, I sit down with Gross Boye Garden Society's
Melissa Fumero.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
I was excited at the potential of doing something really different,
and I just thought the script was so fun to read,
and I wanted to know what happened next.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Off the Cup is.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
A production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Recent
Choice Network. I'm Your Hostess. Editing and sound designed by
Derek clements Or. Executive producers are met Si Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. If you like Off the Cup, please
rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Follow our
subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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