November 13, 2025 • 39 mins
If last election week ended with a bang for Democrats, this week ended in a whimper with eight Senate Democrats breaking from their party and signing a deal to end the historic government shutdown. And voters are not happy about it. Our Talkin' Politics guest today, Andrew Gillum [former Mayor of Tallahassee and co-host of Native Land Pod], helps S.E. dissect this game of chicken — who won, who lost, and what lessons can Democrats take from these past two weeks as the 2026 elections loom over the broken party. Stay tuned for S.E.'s own hot take — did Democrats even have a shot at winning this fight? And is there potential for any long-term rewards despite blowing their momentum?
Make sure to check out what Andrew Gillum and his co-hosts, Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross and Bakari Sellers, have to say about all week's biggest news stories at Native Land Pod.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to talking politics. And what a week it was?
If it felt like last week with those Democratic election
wins in New Jersey, New York, Virginia, California went out
with a bang. This week with the Dems essentially caving
on their ACA demands and agreeing to vote to end
the longest government shutdown in history.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Went out with a whimper.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Regardless of where you stand, whatever your party, the energy
of these past two weeks could not have been different.
And covering it, trust me, we feel it too. Last
week I was running around New York City. I did
seven hours of live election coverage on election night, I
filed dozens of stories, spoke to some very excited, motivated Democrats.
(00:49):
This week I covered the collapse of all that momentum
after eight Senate Democrats agreed to a deal with Republicans
that would punt the discussion of ending Obamacare tax credits.
After agreeing to reopen the government, I spoke to some
very angry and annoyed Democrats. See how much can change
in a week? The government shut down was painful, but
(01:11):
was it productive for anyone? I'm gonna give you my
piping hot take in a few but first, let's get
to the interview, and it's.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
A good one.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Today, I'm thrilled to bring on a former colleague, someone
I got to know briefly while he was at CNN.
Now you can catch him on the Native Land pod
on iHeart with our friends Angela Raye and Tiffany Cross
and now Okari Sellers. He was the mayor of Tallahassee,
the Democratic nominee for governor of Florida in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Andrew Gillam.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
What's up, Essie.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I'm real mad that you celebrated last week's wins with
sluckin and like you give me the doldrum.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I know, I know, this is the worst we got
the fun. This is not the fun week she had
the fun week. You have to not fun week. Yeah,
it's just I don't make the rules. It's just how
it happens. But it's really nice to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's been to see you. It has been a while.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
And yeah, by time I see and it was brief,
I was like a year. And even so we never
got like paneled together.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We never got to like get a drink or like hang.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
But it was really nice to get you, like to
get to meet you briefly and get to know you
a little bit. And I've I'm so enjoying the podcast.
How are you enjoying this, this this new life you have.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I mean it's very different obviously from being directly in politics,
being the person in a seat making decisions and that
kind of thing. And Lord said, I want to be governor,
but this is it is different. It would be better
when you when you have spent so much time being
able to take people's complaints and converted into an action
the next day. It's harder to sit back and watch
(02:47):
things go really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Andrew, it's easier. It's easier.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I get to come on here complain opine. Yeah translated new,
I don't have to do anything about it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
See yeah. Yeah. In some ways they might.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Be less gratifying, but it is easier than having to
solve problems.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I would agree to that, Yeah, it is easier. It
is the easier thing to do, you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Know, And that it's so funny you say that because
and this isn't actually part of the interview, but I'm
really glad you said that, because I feel that angst
a lot, and especially recently when things feel so unsolvable
and my only job is to like talk about how
unsolvable things are. It feels like, oh, I could be
(03:32):
doing so much.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
More right right right?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Or like why are.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
People tuning in if I don't have the solutions, I
can't even offer solutions.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah. Yeah, they want to be in community. They want
to be in community, and they're not by themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, Andrew, You're exactly right. They just want to be
heard and felt and seen.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And I was told by someone kind of recently, like
take that burden off, Like no one is expecting you
to solve the world's problems on a podcast or on
a substack or in a column. But I feel that
urgency as well. Yeah, I totally know how you feel.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah, the urgency of it, right, especially you know, raising
three kids and being you know, it's enough to already
wear them outside your body because anything can happen to
them and all you want to do is protect them.
But then you see like the world that you want
for them being.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Shifted in all the ways that you can't control. And yeah,
it judges me crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Anxiety therapy they First of.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
All, I think therapy ought to be mandatory. But I
think we're all off topic.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, you know, we're on topic. We are on the top,
We're on the only topic that matters.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I think therapy should should be mandatory for everybody. We
all have ship we have to work through, excuse me,
stuff we have to work through.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
A lot of us aren't ready to admit a lot
of the things that we got to work through.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
But the unhealed part of it keeps showing up in
all of the worst ways that you can imagine, every
single day, day in and day out, because we have
not taken time to take a tender moment with that healed,
twelve year old version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Oh my god, that just needs to be heard.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Can you be my every guest? Can you just be
the only guest I always have? Because that is the
most important thing to say.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Mandatory. Let's make it mandatory.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I hate to move on to politics, yeah, after this,
but we should.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
We should shocking politics after all, do it?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, let's get into the week. Were you surprised to
learn that those eight Senate Democrats were ready to vote
with Republicans to end the shutdown.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I think that we didn't prime the American people for
it coming. It felt like it came out of nowhere.
Was not prepared for it.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I knew that.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The the the standoff would come to an end one
way or another, and I did not think it would
come to an end with a policy solution being changed
in the midst of a shutdown.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
It's never happened, changed being dropped. But none of it.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I mean, I just don't think that that big change
was going to come out of the shutdown. I think
it achieved some important things, like it finally disciplined Democrats
to concentrate on one thing and one thing only, and
in some ways was able to break through to remind
people that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
You know what, health care is a thing and this
exchange is a thing.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No matter how much we wanted to cry it, it
helped out. It helps a lot of people be able
to afford access to healthcare. And I think for the
American voter, it centered their attention on what they could
and could not afford. Can we afford for this to
happen in this and not for this to happen? Can
I afford this in my house and then not this?
And then what do I what do I stop paying for?
(06:38):
What do I stop getting? If I choose to get
this and more than anything, I think that it gave
every day Americans the belief that they had some backup coming,
like the cavalry was coming in the shut down signal
for some people that the cavalry was coming, and then
it all dropped.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I think it's a boring to point out while we're
all talking about Democrats and what they gave up and
what they did, this puts Republicans. It reminds me of
the Row Fight. Republicans got what they wanted yep, but
they had nothing in place.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
When Roe went away yep.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
For you know, not just for women who want an abortion,
but like healthcare, they had nothing to come in. And
now Republicans are about to get what they want yep,
and nothing to replace it, and they're gonna have to
They're gonna have to own that. I think that's important
to say. That's not like that doesn't make this a
Democratic win. No, agree, it's important to say.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That it is.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
And I listened to this playback of Speaker Johnson, you know,
basically saying no way, no how, would not given a vote,
you know, this sort of this shut down in your
face on healthcare, and it hit me differently this time before.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
When I heard it, I.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Heard it as a sort of a politician political analyst
who's hearing them say no to Democratic members of Congress,
you are not going to get what it is you want.
After the election, I heard it differently. I heard it
as I have a need. I'm the average person and
I have a need that needs to be met, and
the Republican Speaker of the House is shutting me down.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I don't have time for you.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And that struck me differently, and I think its struck
a lot of Americans differently. Now that the election has
taken place, you've centered, you have now made common cause
with the people who are advocating for health care affordability.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, and now you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
From the Republicans Speaker of the House, No, we don't
have time for your care. We were not given vale,
we were not doing that. And that shut down is
not the government shut down, shutdown of my issue. You
shutting me down is not going to play well. They
own being on the opposite side of people's needs.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, it showing is Republicans really just don't care about
your pay. They don't care about your whether it's economic pain,
they just don't care. And that's now that this looks
like it's over, Republicans are going to have to own that.
But first, like Democrats are mad. They're mad at Democrats.
They're mad at King Jefferies and Chuck Schumer even though
(09:16):
they oppose the deal just for like a general failure
of leadership.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They're mad at the Senate eight.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They're mad at the party for seeming to, I mean,
according to Democratic voters on TikTok anyway, like always surrender.
So who should Democratic voters be mad at Andrew Gillum?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I mean they ought to be mad at the.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
People who are really causing the harm here, and that
is Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Now, let me also align myself with the fact that
I'm mad at all those same people. Yeah, the Democratic
leadership because we have we have we have cultivated the
image of always being willing to cave, never being willing
to stand up and fight the fight. But in truth,
the reason why Democrats couldn't stand and fight this fight
(10:02):
all the way through is because they didn't believe that
they would have on the opposite side of them an
opponent who was willing to throw the kids to the dogs,
to throw the hungry and their needs to the winds
to treat the American people with such foul disregard as
the Republicans and Donald Trump were willing to do. Always
(10:24):
in that setup, Democrats are going to fold because their
compassion for people and their ability to see the hurt
that is being you know, dialed out, dialed out on people,
is always going to show up to intercede.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
It's always going to show up.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
If you're on the opposite side of that, you are never, ever,
ever going to lose to Democrats when it comes to
a war about who's going to be more compassionate and
fold in favor of making sure people of kids are
being able to able to be fed and to eat.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You cannot underestimate the Republicans' capacity for cruelty.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Cruelty is it can Cruthty is a word that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Can't And that's painful for me to say as a
former Republican, as a Conservative who came up in compassionate conservatism.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, different world.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
It's painful, but that's just the fact of the modern
Republican Party today. You cannot underestimate their capacity for cruelty.
And I think when a Republican when Democrats got themselves
into this fight, they were underestimating.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
They were underestimating, and they also, you know, I don't
think that there was an end plan in place. I
don't think they began with an end in mind. I
think they went for what felt like needed to be
done in that moment, and that was to put some
breaks on some things.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, and I think people were grateful for the breaks.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But this is where I think I would have done
things slightly differently, and that is and going toward a
shut down and in thinking about a way out or
an endgame. I think it would have been really smart
of Democrats to to target the eight US senators on
the Republican side, who are the most vulnerable, who were
in the places where they're split governance a democratic governor
and they voted for Trump presidency or have someone who sence.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely, so that these people during those forty days
felt like the world in their state was colliding in
on them.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, it was all collapsing on their backs.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
For them to make the decision that was going to
be in the best interest of the American people, not
the one that was going to gratify and satisfy Donald Trump,
but what was going to get them re elected.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Or elected to the next great position that they want
to hold.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And I think that we failed to bring political You
know how on TV you would you would, you would talk,
but you or debate somebody in studio, but you're really
talking through them through the camera to the people at
home to get your point. Yeah, we these Democrats and
DC were talking to their senators as if they were
in the same room when they when they really should
have been talking through them to the people back in
(12:50):
their home districts, saying put the pressure, put the pressure,
put the pressure until we get what it is that
we need. It was it was lacking of I think
the political kinds of outcomes you want to show up electorally.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
So what you're talking about is the mechanics of this
and how this could have gone. So when we're talking
about the mechanics, does someone like Chuck Schumer need to go?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Is he responsible?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You know, I have to believe that Chuck Schumer is
the leader for his caucus. And what I mean by
that is within the Democratic Caucus you have quite frankly
republican l like Democrats, and you've got the.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Most liberal of liberal.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Who may be independents like senators who caucuses with Democrats. Yeah,
I just mean we have the ideological spectrum. I think
within the Democratic Party. I think what Chuck Schumer provides
is a good foil for either one of those ends
of the party when it comes to HU to blame
for what happened when I'm the moderate and unfortunately we've
got New York Democrats who are pulling us one way
(13:49):
or another, and then you got the liberal who're saying, oh, well,
you know, Chuck Schumer is a decent leader because he
helps keep the moderates in line or this, that and
the third. I just think he's the leader for their party.
He is not the leader for the Democratic Party. I
think he's the leader for Democrats who happened to be
the US Senate. And I think it's an untenable place
(14:09):
to be, to be quite frank, because you are dealing
with the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think that's smart.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Look, here's the ugly truth and the honest truth. Democrats
have no power in Washington, period full stop.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Thanks for the reminder, and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
To get into this in my in my hot take.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But like winning elections is the only option, and that's
what happened last week. And that's the only way to
get around Trump and Trump is and the Republican majority
is to win elections.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Winning with the right people to strength.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You can flex.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, So what do Democrats do between now and midterms
to steer the party in the right direction to win elections?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Again, I think we organize. We organize our asses off
this idea of waiting until a few weeks out from
the election to start talking to your base about the
emergency of the moment, Like people are past that you
told me the work. It's not happening. It's not happening.
You need to be in relationship with me, and that
relationship does not start a couple of weeks out from
(15:26):
the election. You have to be in relationship with me.
I'm tied of dating. You need to put a ring
on it. And that means you got to talk to
me inside and outside of elections. You have to hear
my needs inside a cycle and outside of a cycle.
Why Because those needs are still the needs. Even when
you're not listening to me, not paying attention to me,
not courting me, not talking to me, My needs are
still the needs. And so the party has to get
(15:50):
adjusted to the fact that people don't They don't want quickies.
They want you to be in real relationship with them.
If you're going to be my representative voice in Washington, DC,
if you're going to know me, if you're going to
understand what my hurts, my pains, my knees are, what
thresholds I have for pain being you know, jest, you
know that I have to ingest because of actions you
make in Washington, then you need to be in regular
(16:12):
communication and in community with me. And I just think
for whatever reason, it is the hardest thing to crack
for our folks, like open up. This isn't gonna work anymore.
They're not responding to the word is about to collapse.
They're not doing it because they're saying, you know what
you told me that last time, and you told me
the time before.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Well, y'all the truth for real, this it is here now. Yeah,
we are experiencing it now.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
And I think people are waking up to the fact
that they are experiencing it. And that's why so many
people turned up this last you.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Know, two tuesdays ago. What's to say that but for November.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Especially, if times are still hard for people, they're gonna wonder,
what are you going to do that's gonna truly make
it different?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
How are you going to beet with me differently?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Because last time I didn't get dealt with differently, and
my life hasn't changed or improved, and you're still sitting.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
High up there, and I think you're getting it something
that's very hard to.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Define in terms of messaging.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
But Democrats saying for as long as they have we
got this, don't worry is not the message.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The message should be.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
We don't got this, and if you want us to
get this, you have to elect us. We have to
win back a majority. We don't got this. We cannot
do anything about all of your pain. That's right unless
we're back in power.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And instead of saying we're on top of it, don't worry.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's not it.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
We don't need your vote of confidence. We want you
to be as scared as we are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
That's it, and get it.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I would also say, then admonish us to do something
about it that we the regular people, then tell us
what our role is in helping you secure that thing.
Because even though just select us falls short because it
lets people think that when you go there as our champions,
that you'll get it done and you don't need them,
Like my part's over. I have the vote, and I
(18:01):
sit you there and my part's over. And my point
is that your part isn't over. We're actually gonna have
to struggle through this together. Yeah, you get us elected,
we're gonna hold those hearings. We're gonna hold those folks accountable.
But but we got to keep you in the game.
When it comes to calling your member holding them accountable.
We need you to do that too, because sometimes they
wan't all be on our side.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
We're gonna need some people to hold them to it.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
So I would say, like, just imagine us being capable
of doing more than voting. Imagine that we can actually
be part of the cavalry that helps to save us.
And too many times elections I think let every day
people off the hook, bye bye bye by allowing us
to believe that you told me you will go there
and get it done, and I expect you to do that.
(18:41):
And you never want to call back home and said
you needed my help. You never once said you needed
me alongside you to get the thing done. And I
just think we have to be honest with people, more
honest with voters, to say we need you not just
on election there, we need you through it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
We need you through it in order to deliver on
what we need Andrew.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Before I let you go, we end with this thing
I call the exit poll, and it's a series of
questions of varying degrees of seriousness.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Reliable, right, yeah, for.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Exit polls are reliable.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So the first question is what's your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Oh? My goodness, Oh, I hate I don't know movie names,
but I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I don't know movie names.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But well, describe one and I can name it. Maybe.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
So do you remember uh Kurt wait wait wait the
short one place President Martin she Martin Sheen. He's vice president,
but it's in the movie and he's dating the girl
who's like.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Okay, so you're talking about Are you talking about Michael
Douglass and the American President?
Speaker 4 (19:42):
That's okay, that's it. See how I told you I'm
not good at names.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Oh we got there together.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Oh that's it. Okay, important what you were.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Just talking about. You've got an elected representative. That's you
still need my help.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
He really got it when he You know, I liked
him standing up to his own it. You know, he
when he basically you want to come, don't come after her,
don't go after you come directly through me, right, you
come at me.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It wasn't a strong man thing. It was an honest thing.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's like all his political life he played the good
guy and the good cop and and like the responsible one.
And now he's at some point they can push you
that far. Yeah, they push you too far. And now
it's push the desk back, stand up, meet me right here.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm right here at this moment.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Love that movie. It's an Aaron Sorkin class set.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And we've talked about this movie several times on this
podcast and over the course of Off the Cup because
it's a lot of people's favorite. It's a great movie
and it's a feel good movie.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
The way Larry Wilmore we had on the podcast described it,
he said, mister Smith was already in.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Washington and Washington yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Second question of three is who's someone on the other
side of the aisle that you had mind.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Respect coming out of the last election.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I'd say Liz Cheney, Oh yeah, somebody who I respect
probably philosophically completely in different places.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But I.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Admired the way that she chose the constitution over a
party and over a president. And you give my respect
every day of the week for if you have the
ability to stand for right regardless of who's on the
opposite side.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Nice. And finally, how do we save our democracy?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
We activate and yes that includes voting, but that also
includes holding your elected accountable. That means that democracy is
a contact sport and we don't just get to sit
high or low in the in the observation deck with
no responsibility to ensure its outcome. The framer said, we
(21:55):
give you a republic if you can keep it, and
that is a democratic republic. And if you can keep
part is now and that's us. Yeah, if we can
keep it, that's us.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yep, thank you. This was great, Thank you, Andrew. Good
good to have you. Thank you to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And remember you can go listen to Andrew's Native Land
pod on iHeart or anywhere you get your podcasts. After
the break, we come back with maybe a little mail
and my piping hot political take.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Welcome back to talking politics.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Before we get to my mini mono, Lauren, do we
have any mail we.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Do have some mail. It's actually from Eva, our favorite listener.
But she is really excited that you spoke to Senator
Elisa Slapkin. She's a longtime fan of her and you,
and she thinks that she would love to see Slatkin
run for presidents. That was exciting Micha. She's thinking about
(23:03):
branding for Democrats. So she's saying, I agree with both
of you that Democrats need to unite around one agenda. Also,
I keep thinking that they need a marketing or branding
expert to help them. Donald Trump is a genius marketer,
specifically for TV. The Democrats have missed the boat on
galvanizing its base around not only a similar message, but
a brand. She gives some examples we are living through.
(23:24):
Hopefully not much longer. Trump shut down the terifation, start
referring to people as pete, heg signal or pardon, Pam
Kruella Gnome. I think the more we get these get
these phrases into the media, the better the base will
wake up and realize that Trump Show has jumped the shark.
Hopefully any thoughts, see.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Well, that's a it's a good thing to point out.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think the thing we always have.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
To say, when we're talking about how great Trump is
at branding, is that, well, Trump is great at lying.
I mean it's not it's not just branding, it's that
he doesn't mind lying about you know. He was just
on I think yesterday saying prices are down, they're down.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I think he said something.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Ridiculous like three hundred percent prices are up.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
That is just a lie.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So when you're comfortable lying and just telling people up
is down, the sky is green, that's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't think you should compete with that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But I completely understand the point that, like, Democrats are
not playing in the same sandbox as Republicans when it
comes to this, and you might need to get a
little dirty, a little dirtier to get the American people
to wrap their heads around what's happening and then go
(24:53):
and disseminate it, talk about it, project it, get their friends,
get their neighbors, get their family on the same page. Yeah,
you need some like tools to do that. And Democrats
aren't given anything. They really aren't.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
They had Weird for a moment. Weird was a good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Place thing, but like, well it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It didn't It didn't get Kamala and Tim Walls elected,
and I see Gavin Newsom trying to do this with
his like you know, mean tweets. Ultimately, I'm here for
all of that, and that's fine, play around with that. Ultimately,
the thing that's going to win is an agenda. You
(25:35):
have to have a competing agenda. And this is what's
been missing. And I've been saying it since even before
twenty twenty four, when I knew Democrats were going to lose,
I said, you're not offering a competitive agenda. You're just
talking about how bad Trump is and people want something
to vote for. Yeah, And what Democrats have been doing
(26:00):
through twenty twenty four was, and we've said this one
hundred times, was saying the issues you are telling us
matter to you aren't actually aren't actually problems. Obviously that's
the wrong thing to do, and that's not just a
messaging fix. That's also acknowledging some of your policies aren't working.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
The open borders policy that Joe Biden allowed after undoing
the remain in Mexico just because Trump had done it,
that was a bad policy. We can have all the
compassion for asylum secret seeking migrants, but open borders was
a terrible policy. Some of the inflationary economic policy was bad.
(26:44):
Some of the soft one crime policy is bad. Unless
you're going to acknowledge that some of your policies need
to be tweaked, you're never going to get there on
just messaging alone.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I think that's where we're at, and it's a
hard thing to tackle. It's easier to tackle messaging. It's
really hard to tackle what policies are we offering that
are going to solve people's problems?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
How do we get them on board?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Well? Is it still a lesson of m Donnie's rise
that he stayed so on message? But his childcare rent like,
he's not national so he doesn't need to speak to Trump.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, he's national now, I mean he is a national
figure now, for better or worse.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And no, you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
What he did was acknowledge the problem people were saying
is a problem. And I think it was hard for
national Democrats, especially in the presidential to do that because
to do that it made them feel like they had
to take responsibility for the economy being bad, or crime
being out.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Of control, or a migrant crisis.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Zoramum Donni didn't have to take any responsibility true, for
creating those problems, right, both because he wasn't elected, and
he wasn't he's a Democratic socialist, he's not even inside
the party. Yeah, so he could say, yeah, you're right,
the economy is terrible, you can't afford housing, you can't
afford childcare, you mass transits glacial and inefficient and unsafe.
(28:13):
He could say all the things because he didn't have
to take responsibility for them. I want democrats to just
say all the things that voters.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
You're right, yeah, and it's okay to criticize yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
And Democrats need to get over their fear of having
to take responsibility. Voters don't care. Just tell me I'm
right that my problem is real, yeah, and then tell
me how you're going to fix it. And Lauren, I
can't tell you how many voters we talked to over
the course of this New York City election. I would say,
(28:49):
you realize a lot of the things orn Mumdani is
saying he'll do he can't actually do.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And they said we don't care.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Oh, fascinating, don't care.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, And they said the same to Trump, right, they
didn't care that a lot of the things he was
promising either couldn't happen constitutionally or because Congress or whatever.
They just wanted to be heard and seen and acknowledged.
Your pain is real. I get your pain. So I
(29:21):
mean that's the lesson. That is the lesson for the
midterms in twenty twenty eight. And thank you Eva for
that question or comment, because it's it's a really it's
a really good one. These are the conversations democrats need
to be having about themselves and about moving forward. Okay,
you can write to us at Off the Cup Cup
(29:42):
with two Piece at gmail dot com with questions, comments, suggestions, criticism,
and maybe we'll read your mail on a future episode.
And don't forget to go listen to our interviews.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
At Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
This week's episode is with MSNBC's Mika Prasinski and.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Also, go check out our talk and coffee episodes too
for a little stimulation. We've got you covered and Off
the Cup We've got all the things covered. Okay, now
my piping hot take of the week. I'm going to
start with a question that's on everyone's mind after all
of this.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Who won the shutdown?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
This government shutdown inflicted a tremendous amount of pain on Americans,
from federal workers who went weeks without pay, to American
travelers who were victims of chaotic airport scenes and flight cancelations,
to the millions of Americans, including children, whose SNAP benefits
were withheld. That pain is real and cannot be discounted
(30:43):
or minimized. But the government shutdown was also inherently a
political act. It was designed by both parties to inflict
pain on each other. Democrats used it to pressure Republicans
into extending permanently the enhanced tax credits in the Affordable
Care introduced during the Biden administration and said to expire
at the end of the year. Democrats warned that if
(31:06):
those tax credits lapsed, millions of Americans would see premiums
rise or lose their health insurance Altogether. Their calculation was
that most Americans would blame Republicans and Trump for the shutdown,
and eventually the GOP would cave. Now, Republicans called their
bluff and said, nope, nope, sign a clean cr a
(31:29):
clean continuing resolution to continue funding the government, and then
we'll discuss the ACA extensions later. Now, Democrats were smart
not to believe them, of course, but their strategy was
wrong from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Let me tell you why. And I said this with Andrew.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You cannot underestimate this Republican Party's capacity for cruelty and
its ability to withstand the terrible political optics and reality
of denying hungry kids food, stranding travelers at airports, and
even maybe ruining our holidays. Republicans were never going to flinch.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
They don't care.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Remember President Trump went to the Supreme Court to ask
them to allow him to continue denying snap benefits for kids. Okay,
that's how much they didn't care about your pain. So,
for better or worse, eight Senate Democrats decided.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We got to put an end to this thing.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And as Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, one of
the eight, said, standing up to Trump didn't work.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
It actually gave him more power. Now you can lament that.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But that's true. That is true. That's what happened. So
no surprise, Dems are mad. Dem voters are mad, but
so are a lot of rank and file electeds. Here's Rocanna,
congressman from California, who actually had on last week to
discuss the elections. How much of this do you put
at the feet of Charles Schumer, the Democratic leader in
(33:04):
the Senate.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Most of it? I mean, he's the leader of the Senate.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
This deal would never have happened if he had not
blessed it. Don't take my word for it, take the
word of other senators were saying that they kept Senator
Schumer in the loop the whole time. Look, I've worked
with Senator Schumer. He did an incredible job on the CHIPSEG,
on the IRA, on infrastructure. But it's time for him
(33:30):
to be replaced.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
He is not meeting the moment.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
He's out of touch with where the party's base is.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I mean, it's understandable. Well, why people like Rokanna are angry.
They have constituents back home. They promised they'd fight for them,
and now they have to go back and explain why
this shutdown was a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But here's the question.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Was it a waste of time? After this protracted game
of chicken?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Who won?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well, the short answer is nobody right. The American people
lost the most. As is always the case, this forty
plus day disruption was more.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Than inconvenient for millions of people.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It was calamitous for millions of people, and both chambers
of Congress, both parties, the President.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
They're all losers in this.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
When the government is dysfunctional, literally cannot function. It's a
post on all the houses. It's a terrible look for
everyone in charge. But there's a longer answer, and it's twofold.
And the short term, yeah, Democrats lost, but in the
long term they might just win.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Let me explain.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
In the immediate there's no doubt Dems come out of
the shutdown looking like suckers. They caved, folded, surrendered, have
nothing tangible to show for the forty days of pain
that American voters suffer through.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And at least according to the current.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Language of the funding deal, Dems get nothing on the
expiring Obamacare tax credits. Accept a guarantee from Republicans in
the Senate that the Senate will vote on a healthcare
bill in December. Well that sounds great, right, but even
then it would have to pass the House and be
signed by President Trump, and good luck with that. Here's
(35:20):
Speaker Mike Johnson on whether he will commit to even
holding that vote in the House.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
If something passes the Senate, it would only pass on
a bipartisan basis.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Would you bring it up?
Speaker 7 (35:32):
Well, the bill that's going to pass, so we want
to extend the subsidies that later vote. I can't commit
to anything that hasn't even passed through the Senate yet.
I mean, I've never done that. I'm very consistent. I've
been Speaker for over two years. And one of the
reasons I've held in cavalists because I don't go out
in predetermined outcomes. It's a member driven institution, as it
should be, and I'm really insistent about that. We got
to get back to regular order. And that's what we're
doing here.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So the Senate's guaranteeing a vote, but if the House
doesn't guarantee a vote point, it's meaningless. So really they
got nothing nothing. Democrats didn't get the thing they were
holding out for the reason the government was shut down
in the first place. There's no way to spin that
as a win again, at least not in the short term.
It's inarguably a punch to the gut, and less than
(36:15):
a week after Democrats were so invigorated by those elections
in New Jersey and Virginia and New York. But and
this isn't important, but there may be a long term
reward for Democrats looming on the horizon, and just in
time for midterms. Suore Dems would have loved to win
this battle and walk away preserving the ACA tax extensions indefinitely.
(36:36):
Let's be honest, it was never gonna happen. Democrats have
virtually no power in Washington. The shutdown was a glaring
example of that reality. Well, it's painful now to admit
that they lost. They'll get to take credit at least
for ending the shutdown in time, and that could be
a very useful talking point as midterms approach. They can
say Republicans were happy to keep inflicting pain. They actually
(37:00):
begged the courts to let them keep inflicting pain because
they don't care about your pain, and we have to
stop them for the good of the country.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
We put voters before politics.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Look, get to say all that, and now, whatever happens
with Obamacare, Republicans will own this. If they want to
be the party that takes away healthcare benefits from millions
of voters, go for it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So bold strategy caught, and let's see if it pays
off for them.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Look, eventually Democrats will stop being mad at Democrats and
they'll go back to be mad at Republicans and the
quicker this ends, the sooner they can get back to
pointing out how terrible Trump is, the Trump economy is,
how about the tariffs have been, how gross Trump's lavish
spending on ballrooms and banquets is, how distracted he seems
by foreign affairs, how badly he wants to keep the
(37:51):
Epstein files hidden, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's
a much better place to be for Democrats than in
a government shut down, taking incoming from their own for
either persisting or not fighting enough. And this is all
again a useful reminder that with practically no power in
(38:11):
Washington at the moment, the only way to advance an
agenda rain and Republicans or constrict Trump's overreach is by
winning elections. Short term pain, long term gain onward. All right,
that's it for me this week. Thanks for tuning into
(38:32):
Talking politics. Be sure to go check out our talk
and Coffee and our Off the Cup interviews, and we'll
see you next week. Off the Cup is a production
of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Other Reason Choice podcasts Politics with Jamel Hill and Native
Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I'm your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me ce cop Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday,
Welcome to talking politics. And what a week it was?
If it felt like last week with those Democratic election
wins in New Jersey, New York, Virginia, California went out
with a bang. This week with the Dems essentially caving
on their ACA demands and agreeing to vote to end
the longest government shutdown in history.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Went out with a whimper.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Regardless of where you stand, whatever your party, the energy
of these past two weeks could not have been different.
And covering it, trust me, we feel it too. Last
week I was running around New York City. I did
seven hours of live election coverage on election night, I
filed dozens of stories, spoke to some very excited, motivated Democrats.
(00:49):
This week I covered the collapse of all that momentum
after eight Senate Democrats agreed to a deal with Republicans
that would punt the discussion of ending Obamacare tax credits.
After agreeing to reopen the government, I spoke to some
very angry and annoyed Democrats. See how much can change
in a week? The government shut down was painful, but
(01:11):
was it productive for anyone? I'm gonna give you my
piping hot take in a few but first, let's get
to the interview, and it's.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
A good one.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Today, I'm thrilled to bring on a former colleague, someone
I got to know briefly while he was at CNN.
Now you can catch him on the Native Land pod
on iHeart with our friends Angela Raye and Tiffany Cross
and now Okari Sellers. He was the mayor of Tallahassee,
the Democratic nominee for governor of Florida in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Andrew Gillam.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
What's up, Essie.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I'm real mad that you celebrated last week's wins with
sluckin and like you give me the doldrum.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I know, I know, this is the worst we got
the fun. This is not the fun week she had
the fun week. You have to not fun week. Yeah,
it's just I don't make the rules. It's just how
it happens. But it's really nice to see you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's been to see you. It has been a while.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
And yeah, by time I see and it was brief,
I was like a year. And even so we never
got like paneled together.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We never got to like get a drink or like hang.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
But it was really nice to get you, like to
get to meet you briefly and get to know you
a little bit. And I've I'm so enjoying the podcast.
How are you enjoying this, this this new life you have.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I mean it's very different obviously from being directly in politics,
being the person in a seat making decisions and that
kind of thing. And Lord said, I want to be governor,
but this is it is different. It would be better
when you when you have spent so much time being
able to take people's complaints and converted into an action
the next day. It's harder to sit back and watch
(02:47):
things go really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Andrew, it's easier. It's easier.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I get to come on here complain opine. Yeah translated new,
I don't have to do anything about it.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
See yeah. Yeah. In some ways they might.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Be less gratifying, but it is easier than having to
solve problems.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I would agree to that, Yeah, it is easier. It
is the easier thing to do, you.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Know, And that it's so funny you say that because
and this isn't actually part of the interview, but I'm
really glad you said that, because I feel that angst
a lot, and especially recently when things feel so unsolvable
and my only job is to like talk about how
unsolvable things are. It feels like, oh, I could be
(03:32):
doing so much.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
More right right right?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Or like why are.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
People tuning in if I don't have the solutions, I
can't even offer solutions.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah. Yeah, they want to be in community. They want
to be in community, and they're not by themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, Andrew, You're exactly right. They just want to be
heard and felt and seen.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And I was told by someone kind of recently, like
take that burden off, Like no one is expecting you
to solve the world's problems on a podcast or on
a substack or in a column. But I feel that
urgency as well. Yeah, I totally know how you feel.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah, the urgency of it, right, especially you know, raising
three kids and being you know, it's enough to already
wear them outside your body because anything can happen to
them and all you want to do is protect them.
But then you see like the world that you want
for them being.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Shifted in all the ways that you can't control. And yeah,
it judges me crazy.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Anxiety therapy they First of.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
All, I think therapy ought to be mandatory. But I
think we're all off topic.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, you know, we're on topic. We are on the top,
We're on the only topic that matters.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
I think therapy should should be mandatory for everybody. We
all have ship we have to work through, excuse me,
stuff we have to work through.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
A lot of us aren't ready to admit a lot
of the things that we got to work through.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
But the unhealed part of it keeps showing up in
all of the worst ways that you can imagine, every
single day, day in and day out, because we have
not taken time to take a tender moment with that healed,
twelve year old version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Oh my god, that just needs to be heard.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Can you be my every guest? Can you just be
the only guest I always have? Because that is the
most important thing to say.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Mandatory. Let's make it mandatory.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I hate to move on to politics, yeah, after this,
but we should.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
We should shocking politics after all, do it?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, let's get into the week. Were you surprised to
learn that those eight Senate Democrats were ready to vote
with Republicans to end the shutdown.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I think that we didn't prime the American people for
it coming. It felt like it came out of nowhere.
Was not prepared for it.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I knew that.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The the the standoff would come to an end one
way or another, and I did not think it would
come to an end with a policy solution being changed
in the midst of a shutdown.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
It's never happened, changed being dropped. But none of it.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I mean, I just don't think that that big change
was going to come out of the shutdown. I think
it achieved some important things, like it finally disciplined Democrats
to concentrate on one thing and one thing only, and
in some ways was able to break through to remind
people that.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
You know what, health care is a thing and this
exchange is a thing.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
No matter how much we wanted to cry it, it
helped out. It helps a lot of people be able
to afford access to healthcare. And I think for the
American voter, it centered their attention on what they could
and could not afford. Can we afford for this to
happen in this and not for this to happen? Can
I afford this in my house and then not this?
And then what do I what do I stop paying for?
(06:38):
What do I stop getting? If I choose to get
this and more than anything, I think that it gave
every day Americans the belief that they had some backup coming,
like the cavalry was coming in the shut down signal
for some people that the cavalry was coming, and then
it all dropped.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I think it's a boring to point out while we're
all talking about Democrats and what they gave up and
what they did, this puts Republicans. It reminds me of
the Row Fight. Republicans got what they wanted yep, but
they had nothing in place.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
When Roe went away yep.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
For you know, not just for women who want an abortion,
but like healthcare, they had nothing to come in. And
now Republicans are about to get what they want yep,
and nothing to replace it, and they're gonna have to
They're gonna have to own that. I think that's important
to say. That's not like that doesn't make this a
Democratic win. No, agree, it's important to say.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
That it is.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
And I listened to this playback of Speaker Johnson, you know,
basically saying no way, no how, would not given a vote,
you know, this sort of this shut down in your
face on healthcare, and it hit me differently this time before.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
When I heard it, I.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Heard it as a sort of a politician political analyst
who's hearing them say no to Democratic members of Congress,
you are not going to get what it is you want.
After the election, I heard it differently. I heard it
as I have a need. I'm the average person and
I have a need that needs to be met, and
the Republican Speaker of the House is shutting me down.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I don't have time for you.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
And that struck me differently, and I think its struck
a lot of Americans differently. Now that the election has
taken place, you've centered, you have now made common cause
with the people who are advocating for health care affordability.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, and now you're hearing.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
From the Republicans Speaker of the House, No, we don't
have time for your care. We were not given vale,
we were not doing that. And that shut down is
not the government shut down, shutdown of my issue. You
shutting me down is not going to play well. They
own being on the opposite side of people's needs.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Well, it showing is Republicans really just don't care about
your pay. They don't care about your whether it's economic pain,
they just don't care. And that's now that this looks
like it's over, Republicans are going to have to own that.
But first, like Democrats are mad. They're mad at Democrats.
They're mad at King Jefferies and Chuck Schumer even though
(09:16):
they oppose the deal just for like a general failure
of leadership.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They're mad at the Senate eight.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They're mad at the party for seeming to, I mean,
according to Democratic voters on TikTok anyway, like always surrender.
So who should Democratic voters be mad at Andrew Gillum?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I mean they ought to be mad at the.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
People who are really causing the harm here, and that
is Donald Trump and the Republican Party.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Now, let me also align myself with the fact that
I'm mad at all those same people. Yeah, the Democratic
leadership because we have we have we have cultivated the
image of always being willing to cave, never being willing
to stand up and fight the fight. But in truth,
the reason why Democrats couldn't stand and fight this fight
(10:02):
all the way through is because they didn't believe that
they would have on the opposite side of them an
opponent who was willing to throw the kids to the dogs,
to throw the hungry and their needs to the winds
to treat the American people with such foul disregard as
the Republicans and Donald Trump were willing to do. Always
(10:24):
in that setup, Democrats are going to fold because their
compassion for people and their ability to see the hurt
that is being you know, dialed out, dialed out on people,
is always going to show up to intercede.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
It's always going to show up.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
If you're on the opposite side of that, you are never, ever,
ever going to lose to Democrats when it comes to
a war about who's going to be more compassionate and
fold in favor of making sure people of kids are
being able to able to be fed and to eat.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
You cannot underestimate the Republicans' capacity for cruelty.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Cruelty is it can Cruthty is a word that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Can't And that's painful for me to say as a
former Republican, as a Conservative who came up in compassionate conservatism.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, different world.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
It's painful, but that's just the fact of the modern
Republican Party today. You cannot underestimate their capacity for cruelty.
And I think when a Republican when Democrats got themselves
into this fight, they were underestimating.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
They were underestimating, and they also, you know, I don't
think that there was an end plan in place. I
don't think they began with an end in mind. I
think they went for what felt like needed to be
done in that moment, and that was to put some
breaks on some things.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, and I think people were grateful for the breaks.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But this is where I think I would have done
things slightly differently, and that is and going toward a
shut down and in thinking about a way out or
an endgame. I think it would have been really smart
of Democrats to to target the eight US senators on
the Republican side, who are the most vulnerable, who were
in the places where they're split governance a democratic governor
and they voted for Trump presidency or have someone who sence.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Yeah, absolutely, so that these people during those forty days
felt like the world in their state was colliding in
on them.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Yeah, it was all collapsing on their backs.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
For them to make the decision that was going to
be in the best interest of the American people, not
the one that was going to gratify and satisfy Donald Trump,
but what was going to get them re elected.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Or elected to the next great position that they want
to hold.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
And I think that we failed to bring political You
know how on TV you would you would, you would talk,
but you or debate somebody in studio, but you're really
talking through them through the camera to the people at
home to get your point. Yeah, we these Democrats and
DC were talking to their senators as if they were
in the same room when they when they really should
have been talking through them to the people back in
(12:50):
their home districts, saying put the pressure, put the pressure,
put the pressure until we get what it is that
we need. It was it was lacking of I think
the political kinds of outcomes you want to show up electorally.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
So what you're talking about is the mechanics of this
and how this could have gone. So when we're talking
about the mechanics, does someone like Chuck Schumer need to go?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Is he responsible?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
You know, I have to believe that Chuck Schumer is
the leader for his caucus. And what I mean by
that is within the Democratic Caucus you have quite frankly
republican l like Democrats, and you've got the.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Most liberal of liberal.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Who may be independents like senators who caucuses with Democrats. Yeah,
I just mean we have the ideological spectrum. I think
within the Democratic Party. I think what Chuck Schumer provides
is a good foil for either one of those ends
of the party when it comes to HU to blame
for what happened when I'm the moderate and unfortunately we've
got New York Democrats who are pulling us one way
(13:49):
or another, and then you got the liberal who're saying, oh, well,
you know, Chuck Schumer is a decent leader because he
helps keep the moderates in line or this, that and
the third. I just think he's the leader for their party.
He is not the leader for the Democratic Party. I
think he's the leader for Democrats who happened to be
the US Senate. And I think it's an untenable place
(14:09):
to be, to be quite frank, because you are dealing
with the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I think that's smart.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Look, here's the ugly truth and the honest truth. Democrats
have no power in Washington, period full stop.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Thanks for the reminder, and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
To get into this in my in my hot take.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But like winning elections is the only option, and that's
what happened last week. And that's the only way to
get around Trump and Trump is and the Republican majority
is to win elections.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Winning with the right people to strength.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You can flex.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, So what do Democrats do between now and midterms
to steer the party in the right direction to win elections?
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Again, I think we organize. We organize our asses off
this idea of waiting until a few weeks out from
the election to start talking to your base about the
emergency of the moment, Like people are past that you
told me the work. It's not happening. It's not happening.
You need to be in relationship with me, and that
relationship does not start a couple of weeks out from
(15:26):
the election. You have to be in relationship with me.
I'm tied of dating. You need to put a ring
on it. And that means you got to talk to
me inside and outside of elections. You have to hear
my needs inside a cycle and outside of a cycle.
Why Because those needs are still the needs. Even when
you're not listening to me, not paying attention to me,
not courting me, not talking to me, My needs are
still the needs. And so the party has to get
(15:50):
adjusted to the fact that people don't They don't want quickies.
They want you to be in real relationship with them.
If you're going to be my representative voice in Washington, DC,
if you're going to know me, if you're going to
understand what my hurts, my pains, my knees are, what
thresholds I have for pain being you know, jest, you
know that I have to ingest because of actions you
make in Washington, then you need to be in regular
(16:12):
communication and in community with me. And I just think
for whatever reason, it is the hardest thing to crack
for our folks, like open up. This isn't gonna work anymore.
They're not responding to the word is about to collapse.
They're not doing it because they're saying, you know what
you told me that last time, and you told me
the time before.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Well, y'all the truth for real, this it is here now. Yeah,
we are experiencing it now.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
And I think people are waking up to the fact
that they are experiencing it. And that's why so many
people turned up this last you.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Know, two tuesdays ago. What's to say that but for November.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Especially, if times are still hard for people, they're gonna wonder,
what are you going to do that's gonna truly make
it different?
Speaker 3 (16:53):
How are you going to beet with me differently?
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Because last time I didn't get dealt with differently, and
my life hasn't changed or improved, and you're still sitting.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
High up there, and I think you're getting it something
that's very hard to.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Define in terms of messaging.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
But Democrats saying for as long as they have we
got this, don't worry is not the message.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The message should be.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
We don't got this, and if you want us to
get this, you have to elect us. We have to
win back a majority. We don't got this. We cannot
do anything about all of your pain. That's right unless
we're back in power.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And instead of saying we're on top of it, don't worry.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's not it.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
We don't need your vote of confidence. We want you
to be as scared as we are.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
That's it, and get it.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I would also say, then admonish us to do something
about it that we the regular people, then tell us
what our role is in helping you secure that thing.
Because even though just select us falls short because it
lets people think that when you go there as our champions,
that you'll get it done and you don't need them,
Like my part's over. I have the vote, and I
(18:01):
sit you there and my part's over. And my point
is that your part isn't over. We're actually gonna have
to struggle through this together. Yeah, you get us elected,
we're gonna hold those hearings. We're gonna hold those folks accountable.
But but we got to keep you in the game.
When it comes to calling your member holding them accountable.
We need you to do that too, because sometimes they
wan't all be on our side.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
We're gonna need some people to hold them to it.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
So I would say, like, just imagine us being capable
of doing more than voting. Imagine that we can actually
be part of the cavalry that helps to save us.
And too many times elections I think let every day
people off the hook, bye bye bye by allowing us
to believe that you told me you will go there
and get it done, and I expect you to do that.
(18:41):
And you never want to call back home and said
you needed my help. You never once said you needed
me alongside you to get the thing done. And I
just think we have to be honest with people, more
honest with voters, to say we need you not just
on election there, we need you through it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
We need you through it in order to deliver on
what we need Andrew.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Before I let you go, we end with this thing
I call the exit poll, and it's a series of
questions of varying degrees of seriousness.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Reliable, right, yeah, for.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Exit polls are reliable.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So the first question is what's your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Oh? My goodness, Oh, I hate I don't know movie names,
but I will tell you.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I don't know movie names.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
But well, describe one and I can name it. Maybe.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
So do you remember uh Kurt wait wait wait the
short one place President Martin she Martin Sheen. He's vice president,
but it's in the movie and he's dating the girl
who's like.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Okay, so you're talking about Are you talking about Michael
Douglass and the American President?
Speaker 4 (19:42):
That's okay, that's it. See how I told you I'm
not good at names.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Oh we got there together.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Oh that's it. Okay, important what you were.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Just talking about. You've got an elected representative. That's you
still need my help.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
He really got it when he You know, I liked
him standing up to his own it. You know, he
when he basically you want to come, don't come after her,
don't go after you come directly through me, right, you
come at me.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It wasn't a strong man thing. It was an honest thing.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
It's like all his political life he played the good
guy and the good cop and and like the responsible one.
And now he's at some point they can push you
that far. Yeah, they push you too far. And now
it's push the desk back, stand up, meet me right here.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
I'm right here at this moment.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Love that movie. It's an Aaron Sorkin class set.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And we've talked about this movie several times on this
podcast and over the course of Off the Cup because
it's a lot of people's favorite. It's a great movie
and it's a feel good movie.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
The way Larry Wilmore we had on the podcast described it,
he said, mister Smith was already in.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Washington and Washington yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Second question of three is who's someone on the other
side of the aisle that you had mind.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Respect coming out of the last election.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I'd say Liz Cheney, Oh yeah, somebody who I respect
probably philosophically completely in different places.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But I.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Admired the way that she chose the constitution over a
party and over a president. And you give my respect
every day of the week for if you have the
ability to stand for right regardless of who's on the
opposite side.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Nice. And finally, how do we save our democracy?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
We activate and yes that includes voting, but that also
includes holding your elected accountable. That means that democracy is
a contact sport and we don't just get to sit
high or low in the in the observation deck with
no responsibility to ensure its outcome. The framer said, we
(21:55):
give you a republic if you can keep it, and
that is a democratic republic. And if you can keep
part is now and that's us. Yeah, if we can
keep it, that's us.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yep, thank you. This was great, Thank you, Andrew. Good
good to have you. Thank you to Andrew.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And remember you can go listen to Andrew's Native Land
pod on iHeart or anywhere you get your podcasts. After
the break, we come back with maybe a little mail
and my piping hot political take.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Welcome back to talking politics.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Before we get to my mini mono, Lauren, do we
have any mail we.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Do have some mail. It's actually from Eva, our favorite listener.
But she is really excited that you spoke to Senator
Elisa Slapkin. She's a longtime fan of her and you,
and she thinks that she would love to see Slatkin
run for presidents. That was exciting Micha. She's thinking about
(23:03):
branding for Democrats. So she's saying, I agree with both
of you that Democrats need to unite around one agenda. Also,
I keep thinking that they need a marketing or branding
expert to help them. Donald Trump is a genius marketer,
specifically for TV. The Democrats have missed the boat on
galvanizing its base around not only a similar message, but
a brand. She gives some examples we are living through.
(23:24):
Hopefully not much longer. Trump shut down the terifation, start
referring to people as pete, heg signal or pardon, Pam
Kruella Gnome. I think the more we get these get
these phrases into the media, the better the base will
wake up and realize that Trump Show has jumped the shark.
Hopefully any thoughts, see.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Well, that's a it's a good thing to point out.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think the thing we always have.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
To say, when we're talking about how great Trump is
at branding, is that, well, Trump is great at lying.
I mean it's not it's not just branding, it's that
he doesn't mind lying about you know. He was just
on I think yesterday saying prices are down, they're down.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I think he said something.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Ridiculous like three hundred percent prices are up.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
That is just a lie.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So when you're comfortable lying and just telling people up
is down, the sky is green, that's an advantage.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't think you should compete with that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But I completely understand the point that, like, Democrats are
not playing in the same sandbox as Republicans when it
comes to this, and you might need to get a
little dirty, a little dirtier to get the American people
to wrap their heads around what's happening and then go
(24:53):
and disseminate it, talk about it, project it, get their friends,
get their neighbors, get their family on the same page. Yeah,
you need some like tools to do that. And Democrats
aren't given anything. They really aren't.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
They had Weird for a moment. Weird was a good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Place thing, but like, well it didn't work.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It didn't It didn't get Kamala and Tim Walls elected,
and I see Gavin Newsom trying to do this with
his like you know, mean tweets. Ultimately, I'm here for
all of that, and that's fine, play around with that. Ultimately,
the thing that's going to win is an agenda. You
(25:35):
have to have a competing agenda. And this is what's
been missing. And I've been saying it since even before
twenty twenty four, when I knew Democrats were going to lose,
I said, you're not offering a competitive agenda. You're just
talking about how bad Trump is and people want something
to vote for. Yeah, And what Democrats have been doing
(26:00):
through twenty twenty four was, and we've said this one
hundred times, was saying the issues you are telling us
matter to you aren't actually aren't actually problems. Obviously that's
the wrong thing to do, and that's not just a
messaging fix. That's also acknowledging some of your policies aren't working.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
The open borders policy that Joe Biden allowed after undoing
the remain in Mexico just because Trump had done it,
that was a bad policy. We can have all the
compassion for asylum secret seeking migrants, but open borders was
a terrible policy. Some of the inflationary economic policy was bad.
(26:44):
Some of the soft one crime policy is bad. Unless
you're going to acknowledge that some of your policies need
to be tweaked, you're never going to get there on
just messaging alone.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I think that's where we're at, and it's a
hard thing to tackle. It's easier to tackle messaging. It's
really hard to tackle what policies are we offering that
are going to solve people's problems?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
How do we get them on board?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Well? Is it still a lesson of m Donnie's rise
that he stayed so on message? But his childcare rent like,
he's not national so he doesn't need to speak to Trump.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, he's national now, I mean he is a national
figure now, for better or worse.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And no, you're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
What he did was acknowledge the problem people were saying
is a problem. And I think it was hard for
national Democrats, especially in the presidential to do that because
to do that it made them feel like they had
to take responsibility for the economy being bad, or crime
being out.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Of control, or a migrant crisis.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Zoramum Donni didn't have to take any responsibility true, for
creating those problems, right, both because he wasn't elected, and
he wasn't he's a Democratic socialist, he's not even inside
the party. Yeah, so he could say, yeah, you're right,
the economy is terrible, you can't afford housing, you can't
afford childcare, you mass transits glacial and inefficient and unsafe.
(28:13):
He could say all the things because he didn't have
to take responsibility for them. I want democrats to just
say all the things that voters.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
You're right, yeah, and it's okay to criticize yourself.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
And Democrats need to get over their fear of having
to take responsibility. Voters don't care. Just tell me I'm
right that my problem is real, yeah, and then tell
me how you're going to fix it. And Lauren, I
can't tell you how many voters we talked to over
the course of this New York City election. I would say,
(28:49):
you realize a lot of the things orn Mumdani is
saying he'll do he can't actually do.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And they said we don't care.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Oh, fascinating, don't care.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, And they said the same to Trump, right, they
didn't care that a lot of the things he was
promising either couldn't happen constitutionally or because Congress or whatever.
They just wanted to be heard and seen and acknowledged.
Your pain is real. I get your pain. So I
(29:21):
mean that's the lesson. That is the lesson for the
midterms in twenty twenty eight. And thank you Eva for
that question or comment, because it's it's a really it's
a really good one. These are the conversations democrats need
to be having about themselves and about moving forward. Okay,
you can write to us at Off the Cup Cup
(29:42):
with two Piece at gmail dot com with questions, comments, suggestions, criticism,
and maybe we'll read your mail on a future episode.
And don't forget to go listen to our interviews.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
At Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
This week's episode is with MSNBC's Mika Prasinski and.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's really good.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Also, go check out our talk and coffee episodes too
for a little stimulation. We've got you covered and Off
the Cup We've got all the things covered. Okay, now
my piping hot take of the week. I'm going to
start with a question that's on everyone's mind after all
of this.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Who won the shutdown?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
This government shutdown inflicted a tremendous amount of pain on Americans,
from federal workers who went weeks without pay, to American
travelers who were victims of chaotic airport scenes and flight cancelations,
to the millions of Americans, including children, whose SNAP benefits
were withheld. That pain is real and cannot be discounted
(30:43):
or minimized. But the government shutdown was also inherently a
political act. It was designed by both parties to inflict
pain on each other. Democrats used it to pressure Republicans
into extending permanently the enhanced tax credits in the Affordable
Care introduced during the Biden administration and said to expire
at the end of the year. Democrats warned that if
(31:06):
those tax credits lapsed, millions of Americans would see premiums
rise or lose their health insurance Altogether. Their calculation was
that most Americans would blame Republicans and Trump for the shutdown,
and eventually the GOP would cave. Now, Republicans called their
bluff and said, nope, nope, sign a clean cr a
(31:29):
clean continuing resolution to continue funding the government, and then
we'll discuss the ACA extensions later. Now, Democrats were smart
not to believe them, of course, but their strategy was
wrong from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Let me tell you why. And I said this with Andrew.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You cannot underestimate this Republican Party's capacity for cruelty and
its ability to withstand the terrible political optics and reality
of denying hungry kids food, stranding travelers at airports, and
even maybe ruining our holidays. Republicans were never going to flinch.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
They don't care.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Remember President Trump went to the Supreme Court to ask
them to allow him to continue denying snap benefits for kids. Okay,
that's how much they didn't care about your pain. So,
for better or worse, eight Senate Democrats decided.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We got to put an end to this thing.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And as Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, one of
the eight, said, standing up to Trump didn't work.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
It actually gave him more power. Now you can lament that.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But that's true. That is true. That's what happened. So
no surprise, Dems are mad. Dem voters are mad, but
so are a lot of rank and file electeds. Here's Rocanna,
congressman from California, who actually had on last week to
discuss the elections. How much of this do you put
at the feet of Charles Schumer, the Democratic leader in
(33:04):
the Senate.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Most of it? I mean, he's the leader of the Senate.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
This deal would never have happened if he had not
blessed it. Don't take my word for it, take the
word of other senators were saying that they kept Senator
Schumer in the loop the whole time. Look, I've worked
with Senator Schumer. He did an incredible job on the CHIPSEG,
on the IRA, on infrastructure. But it's time for him
(33:30):
to be replaced.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
He is not meeting the moment.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
He's out of touch with where the party's base is.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I mean, it's understandable. Well, why people like Rokanna are angry.
They have constituents back home. They promised they'd fight for them,
and now they have to go back and explain why
this shutdown was a waste of time.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
But here's the question.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Was it a waste of time? After this protracted game
of chicken?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Who won?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well, the short answer is nobody right. The American people
lost the most. As is always the case, this forty
plus day disruption was more.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Than inconvenient for millions of people.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
It was calamitous for millions of people, and both chambers
of Congress, both parties, the President.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
They're all losers in this.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
When the government is dysfunctional, literally cannot function. It's a
post on all the houses. It's a terrible look for
everyone in charge. But there's a longer answer, and it's twofold.
And the short term, yeah, Democrats lost, but in the
long term they might just win.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Let me explain.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
In the immediate there's no doubt Dems come out of
the shutdown looking like suckers. They caved, folded, surrendered, have
nothing tangible to show for the forty days of pain
that American voters suffer through.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And at least according to the current.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Language of the funding deal, Dems get nothing on the
expiring Obamacare tax credits. Accept a guarantee from Republicans in
the Senate that the Senate will vote on a healthcare
bill in December. Well that sounds great, right, but even
then it would have to pass the House and be
signed by President Trump, and good luck with that. Here's
(35:20):
Speaker Mike Johnson on whether he will commit to even
holding that vote in the House.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
If something passes the Senate, it would only pass on
a bipartisan basis.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Would you bring it up?
Speaker 7 (35:32):
Well, the bill that's going to pass, so we want
to extend the subsidies that later vote. I can't commit
to anything that hasn't even passed through the Senate yet.
I mean, I've never done that. I'm very consistent. I've
been Speaker for over two years. And one of the
reasons I've held in cavalists because I don't go out
in predetermined outcomes. It's a member driven institution, as it
should be, and I'm really insistent about that. We got
to get back to regular order. And that's what we're
doing here.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So the Senate's guaranteeing a vote, but if the House
doesn't guarantee a vote point, it's meaningless. So really they
got nothing nothing. Democrats didn't get the thing they were
holding out for the reason the government was shut down
in the first place. There's no way to spin that
as a win again, at least not in the short term.
It's inarguably a punch to the gut, and less than
(36:15):
a week after Democrats were so invigorated by those elections
in New Jersey and Virginia and New York. But and
this isn't important, but there may be a long term
reward for Democrats looming on the horizon, and just in
time for midterms. Suore Dems would have loved to win
this battle and walk away preserving the ACA tax extensions indefinitely.
(36:36):
Let's be honest, it was never gonna happen. Democrats have
virtually no power in Washington. The shutdown was a glaring
example of that reality. Well, it's painful now to admit
that they lost. They'll get to take credit at least
for ending the shutdown in time, and that could be
a very useful talking point as midterms approach. They can
say Republicans were happy to keep inflicting pain. They actually
(37:00):
begged the courts to let them keep inflicting pain because
they don't care about your pain, and we have to
stop them for the good of the country.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
We put voters before politics.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Look, get to say all that, and now, whatever happens
with Obamacare, Republicans will own this. If they want to
be the party that takes away healthcare benefits from millions
of voters, go for it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
So bold strategy caught, and let's see if it pays
off for them.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Look, eventually Democrats will stop being mad at Democrats and
they'll go back to be mad at Republicans and the
quicker this ends, the sooner they can get back to
pointing out how terrible Trump is, the Trump economy is,
how about the tariffs have been, how gross Trump's lavish
spending on ballrooms and banquets is, how distracted he seems
by foreign affairs, how badly he wants to keep the
(37:51):
Epstein files hidden, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's
a much better place to be for Democrats than in
a government shut down, taking incoming from their own for
either persisting or not fighting enough. And this is all
again a useful reminder that with practically no power in
(38:11):
Washington at the moment, the only way to advance an
agenda rain and Republicans or constrict Trump's overreach is by
winning elections. Short term pain, long term gain onward. All right,
that's it for me this week. Thanks for tuning into
(38:32):
Talking politics. Be sure to go check out our talk
and Coffee and our Off the Cup interviews, and we'll
see you next week. Off the Cup is a production
of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Other Reason Choice podcasts Politics with Jamel Hill and Native
Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I'm your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me ce cop Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday,
Host
S.E. Cupp
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