Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
I'm your host, Jordan Runtug. Thanks so much for listening.
Our latest chapter chronicles the Thin White Duke, David Bowie's
most infamous and unsettling character. He's been described as a
dapper yet deadly European aristocrat, an icy, amoral zombie, or
(00:24):
an emotionless ari and ubermas, depending on who you ask.
David himself would describe him as quote a nasty character indeed,
which is pretty much all you need to know. The
Duke makes his grand entrance on the title track to
Bowie's landmark ninety six album Station to Station and today
I'm thrilled to talk to a guy who's responsible for
much of the searing guitar work, Mr Earl Slick. Now,
(00:51):
in case you didn't know, Earl is a bona fide
rock legend, and Bowie's just a part of his remarkable resume.
That's him playing on John Lennon and Yoko Owns Double Fantasy,
and he's also played with David Coverdale, Robert Smith, Ian Hunter,
and so many more, not to mention his own solo
work until the Pandemic. He was about to mount a
tour with Sex Pistols founding bassist Glenn Matlock. He was
(01:14):
just twenty one when he got the gig to play
with Bowie on Diamond Dugs Tour, filling the spot recently
vacated by Mick Ronson. He went on to become one
of Bowie's go to guitarists and most frequent collaborators, playing
on Young Americans Station to Station, Heathen Reality and also
the Secret Sessions for the Next Day in He's also
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performed with them on stage for an untold number of
gigs spanning thirty years. I was so happy to talk
with him about Bowie and also another mutual favorite, the Beatles,
and also lots and lots of guitars. Andy gearheads out
there need to check out his line of guitars on
guitar Fetish dot com. I swear this is not a
paid endorsement, but they're so damn cool. You may not
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be able to sound like Earl Slick, but at least
you can kind of look like him. Oh yeah, while
we're on the subject, I have a confession to make.
In addition to being a guitar god, Earl Slick is
a pretty snazzy dresser. I didn't want to feel under dressed,
so I wore a leather jacket for our zoom call,
and I realized after the fact that it crinkled throughout.
Rookie mistake. Apologies in advance. Let that be a lesson
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to any aspiring journalists out there. Don't try to be
cool or at very least condition your leather jacket. Anyway,
I hope you enjoy. I guess I guess should say
before diving into all the Bowie stuff, I guess the
best place to begin is a one day in particular,
and I'll say February nine, a very special day for
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for music lovers everywhere. It sounds like that's where it
all started for you my generation and players probably, yeah,
I mean for me definitely so a weird thing because
we really weren't terribly aware of the Beatles up to
that point. You know, I was what twelve or thirteen
years old something like that, you know, um, and I
(03:05):
really hadn't gotten into I wasn't a music fan per
se yet, you know. But after seeing that show that night,
it was weird, man. I mean, it's hard to describe it.
I mean you you see it, you know, like way
second hand or you know, but if you were there,
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I mean, it was like something you've never seen before,
you know what I mean. And and it just and
the and the weird thing about it was, is it
hit everybody at the same time, the same way, like overnight,
it happened. Literally, what was it? Was it just the
the the exuberance, was it the sound? Was it all
the above? Well? What was it that really spoke to
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you about? Just seeing them? You know, trying to put
myself back in my head back then what we saw
it hit a nerve, really hit a nerve. And the
next day when we up to school, that's all anybody
was talking about. And you know, we all. I mean
at the time, my hair was very short. I remember
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before I went to school, I got a comment I'm
trying to brush down a little bit, you know, I
had a really short air, and so did everybody else.
And and then within days of us seeing that, we
were all putting to nobody could play anything, but we
were putting bands together. Okay, you'll be the bass player,
you'll be the guitar player. This guy, you know what
I mean, we were we it was instantaneous. Uh. And
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then what also appam was is because that the way
that they presented the band, especially on the TV show,
you already had picked your favorite beatle, you know, that
was a big thing. You're Paul Guy, or you are
John Guy, You're Wringled Guy. Are you a George guy?
You know that that? And um, yeah, you know, you
(04:55):
know anything. It was too is that grown up and
being in grade school in the fifties and into the
early sixties. Uh, it wasn't like there was anything of hours,
you know, other than you know, kids playing Little League
and ship like that. There wasn't anything that was really ours,
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you know, And and um, it was also very very
straight laced period of time. So even as much, if
not more than the music, it was the clothes they
were wearing, the haircut they had, the screaming, the whole thing,
you know, And it was like, holy shit, who were
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some of your when you first picked up a guitar
instead of playing who are some of your guitar guiding lights?
The bow Didley's and the Chuck Berreys and the Likning Hopkins.
Who who really, uh were the people that you really
wanted to emulate when you're first starting when I first started, Um,
because the Stones were not very far, you know, it
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was it was pretty be a few months and then
the Stones hit. Uh with the Beatles, it got me
inspired to pick up a guitar. But the Stones is
what really did it. I mean, it started off with
you know, Brian Jones, Keith Richards, and then in short
order I found myself gravitating right to Chuck Berry Bo Diddley. Uh,
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oh you know it went. I went there. That's where
I net. But obviously think about it, I'm listening to
the Stones, oh, the yard Birds to which came after that,
the Ones I gravitated towards because the Beatles got my attention.
But what really sort of drove it home or the
British blues based bands, And because of them, I started
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to explore where they got it from. It was my
love from the blues came from that. So it's late sixties,
early seventies and your plan ends out on Staten Island,
bow Jack, And how did you go from playing Staten
Island to playing with Bowie? Can you take me through
that that journey? Uh? You know when we started off
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playing on Staten Island, Um, we did what all kids
then did anyway. You know, you you started off putting
together these little bands, and you'd be playing at people's
like parties in the basement, and then you start up
playing high school dances, and then you know, you started
uh thinking about playing in the bars, you know, uh,
(07:33):
and it just progressed, and then at one point we
realized that there was life outside of Staten Island. So
we started getting gigs in in the city, in the village,
and I just started meeting people, you know, and um,
one of the guys that was part of our little
crew on Staten Island was a guy named Hank de
Vito and he played um pedal Steel, which which was
(07:57):
kind of odd, but he was he was in a
different crowd of people, uh too. And and he was
actually playing with Michael Caman, the you know, the big
film dude before he was a big film dude. And
I met Michael threw him, and uh, I I got
(08:19):
I got the gig with Bowie because I took a
road to gig with somebody else. That's how I got
the gig, because my instincts told me. And also I
was getting bored with the whole Staten Island thing. I'm
going man. Somehow I put together that, you know, if
we're just gonna keep doing cover songs and I don't
even like and playing in these bars, uh, we're gonna
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get stuck here. I'm gonna get stuck here. So I
started hanging out with with Hank more often, and then
I met Michael threw him, and then Michael took a
liking to me, so he would use me on sessions
here and there, you know, when I was really young
and UM. At one point I asked Hank because because
they were doing UM, Mike had a band called the
(09:05):
rock and Roll New York Rock and Roll Ensemble, right
and and they had directed contract at one point. They
were broken up by now, but but Michael was doing
solo gigs. But these were real gigs, like you know,
you flew on the airplane to get there, and you
stayed in the hotel, you know. And he had part
of Paul Butterfield's rhythm section was in the band. Uh
(09:29):
and UM. David Sanbor was a sax player, So I
took the ROADI gig on and UM. At sound checks,
I always worked my guitar with me, and at the
sound checks, I started jamming with the band and and
really hit it off jam and with Sandborn, and at
one point Sandborn suggested to Michael that I should be,
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you know, playing in the band. So Michael offered it
to me, and so me and Michael became very close
and we would do that and some other projects. So
when the Bowie when he had met Bowie and seventy four, Uh,
it's right when McK ronson had quit and David was
looking for a guitar player and he mentioned it to Michael,
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and Michael threw my name in the hat. So that's
how I got the gig. And the audition, it sounds
like the audition it was pretty unusual. It almost sounds
like something out of like James Bond meeting Blowfeld or something.
You go to the studio and it was just like
an empty studio, right yeah. Yeah. Uh. I've never done
an audition before, so I didn't really know what to expect.
(10:34):
But what what I what I thought was that I'd
show up and it'd be a band in there, and
David Bowie would be in there, and it might be
other people and I would get my chance to play.
That's what I thought. But that wasn't what happened. I
got to r C A Studios, recording studios in New
York City, and um, when I got there, David's personal
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assistant met me, and um, I didn't I didn't see
anybody but her and and she shuffled me into the
main recording room and there was an amp there and
some headphones because oh, just put the headphones on. So
I put the headphones on, and uh, I get instructions
from this disembodied voice, which which was which was Tony Visconti.
(11:22):
They were mixing Diamond Dogs. So I put the headphones
on and he said, We're just gonna play some tracks.
Just play along. I didn't know what these tracks were.
I don't know anything. So that's what I did for
a little while. Twenty minutes maybe no key, no anything,
just play, just just play nothing. Yeah, wow, yeah, And
(11:44):
I don't know. Twenty minutes later, half our waiter, Uh,
they go, wait a minute, and then Bowie walks in
the room, said Hi, We sat down, he grabbed the guitar.
We just noodled around and shot the ship for a
little while. And then I was done. And you know,
they said, uh said, we'll give you a call in
the next couple of weeks. Because we're auditioning more guys.
(12:05):
I said, okay, whatever. Um. As it turns out, they
did call me the next day, so I didn't have
to wait. You know, they liked your right away. Yeah.
Well that must have been a strange tour to start on,
just because I mean, you know, do you think the
Diamond Dogs tore you think of the choreography, the staging,
the just everything being almost like a Broadway production? How
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was that for you? Did you feel confined? Was it
almost like, wait, this isn't the rock show, this is
like a Broadwick style thing? Or was that was that fun?
We're both both, Um, the fun part was just the
fact of the kind of guys I was working with,
you know, the band, you know, because Sanborn was brought
into that man, Mike Garson was already in the band.
(12:47):
Uh oh, Tony Newman and Herbie Flowers were a rhythm section,
you know, So these were guys, These were the top dudes.
But as far as the gig, when it was fucking weird,
because I wouldn't. I mean, first of all, rock bands
didn't do those kind of shows back then. That was
something kind of new. There was no Pink Floyd Wall,
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nothing like that so um wrapping my head around being
part of that. It felt like, first of all, uh,
David had well you know what the Diamond Dogs tour was,
you know, you know what the show was. So there
was a set, they were costumes, it was all this stuff,
and like right before rehearsals, I find myself if David
(13:31):
Sweet in the city, where the where the address? And
getting all my hair cut off. I'm trying on these
clothes that they had made, and it was all like
I'm going, Wow, I finally got in this really famous
big rock band and the first thing it does make
me cut my hair and yours they did all backwards. Yeah.
(14:03):
There was an interview you gave where somebody asked you,
you know, what was your favorite on stage moment, and
you just said, any show with Bowie, just pick a gig.
What was it about being on stage with with with
with Bowie? I guess through the years that that was
so special. What was it like to read him on
stage and just that interplay, Like, you know, coming from
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where I was before I got to get with Bowie,
I had some miles on me because you know, I've
been playing live for a while before I got that gig.
So I've done everything from a lot of bars too.
With Caman, you know, we were doing maybe two thousand seaters,
so I add a little bit of that, but not
(14:45):
to the extent of that, I mean to be honest
with you. When I got in the Diamond Dogs tour, Uh,
the atmosphere around Bowie what was it was definitely in
the realm of the Beatlemania thing because that's when because
he'd already finished Ziggy, right, the Ziggy thing had come
and gone, and he was huge. That's when David was
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he really that was when he really broke through. So
all of that was there and the size of the crowd,
you know, twenty thousand seats, you know, and this huge
organization of Rhodies and staff and the band and and
it was like wow, you know. So the excitement level
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was there twenty four hours a day, you know, and
you know he um being the dynamic performer there that
he was um, you know that that energy really just
permeated the whole thing. I was you're mentioning the band Earlier,
I was lucky enough to speak to to Mr Ken Scott,
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co producer on all those great albums, uh, and he
spoke a great deal about David's sort of his his skills,
brilliance at putting people together and choosing people for what
they were able to do and letting them do what
they were good at and their skill set, and putting
everybody together and having this sort of almost social alchemy
in a way. Uh did you experience that with him?
(16:16):
I mean just with with putting bands together, in groups
of people together. Uh? Yeah, what was he like as
a as a as a leader, Yeah, it was. It
wasn't evident at the time because at that point I
had didn't have enough experience to realize what was going on.
But in hind stight and then all the years are
after that, I think why David's bands and his records
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were the way they were is that everybody that was
involved was there for a specific talent that they had,
you know what I mean. It wasn't like we were
session guys. You know, I had my thing and this
guy ad his thing, and and that's why you were there.
You were not there to put on different hats. You
(16:59):
were there to be I just wore the Earl Slick hat.
Tony Numan wre the Tony Newman hat. We were there
for specific and it wasn't just how he played, It
was the whole package. You know, there were certain things
that that he wanted, that that he saw your personality,
your the way you dressed, the way you carried yourself.
(17:20):
You're playing he package. That's why you were there. Midway
through the Diamond Dogs tour, go into the studio in
Philadelphia and start cutting what would become Young Americans very
very different sound, going from this kind of glam rock
sound to you know, Philly soul and and and just
R and B and and funk. How did you feel
(17:43):
about that at the time? Do you feel about that shift?
Did it's a blindside you in a way? Or what
was that like for you? Yeah, it kind of did
because I was no stranger to R and B. Because
I mean, you know, I played a lot of it. Uh,
when we were doing a lot of the clubs in
New York back before Bowie, when when I was doing
all that, you played, you know these bar gigs, Um
(18:07):
some bar gigs they expected you to do like the
top twenty hits whatever they were. But there were specific
clubs in the city that um they really uh, their
whole thing was about let's let's say, uh what you
call soul, you know, so you would play James Brown
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stuff and then you do Memphis stuff like there would
be Eddie Floyd and Sam and Day. So I played
a lot of it, you know. Uh, but when we
did David's think it was more more of the pop
kind of R and B stuff. And also it was
such a departure from the rock and roll stuff that
I was disappointed because it really didn't leave me much
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room to do much as a guitarist, mostly for people
like Carlos Alamar and kind of getting that type of
guitar playing in there that territory tho he shines. You know,
Do you have any any favorite memories from that session,
because well, but this one I wanted I was gonna
ask you about because I know Fame is on that album.
(19:11):
I was gonna ask you about playing with with with
John Lennon. But I was doing a little research and
there's some debate about whether you actually played with John. Well, yes,
I'm told I was there. The credits say I was there.
(19:32):
John Lennon said I was there. I don't remember. Oh man,
did he did? Did he? He bust your chops for that.
Later when when you're playing double Fantasy, absolutely Yeah, Yeah,
we had fun with that. You post have loved that,
because I'm sure that doesn't happen very often to him. No,
(19:52):
And I think the fact that I had the balls
to tell him that I didn't remember he liked. Oh. Man,
I mean when you're when you're first starting to play
with somebody of a Bowie or a Lennon caliber, when
you first entered the room with him, how do you
how do you connect with those guys initially? Because I
imagine after you know, five ten years of that level
(20:13):
of fame, they must have some degree of protection I'll
call it armor. How do you get through that and
just just just get to hang with them on a
on a personal level and kind of get them to
upset that down? You know, everybody's a little different from
the next guy. With David Um, oh well he would
be well obviously the first person of that caliber that
(20:36):
I was exposed to to work with and um on
a personal level. Man, this is this is this is
a funny one because it's hard to describe it in
a way. Uh, he was in his own world, you know,
So it wasn't like you would get in a band
with the guys and all of a sudden you're hanging
out and doing that once you know. You know when
(20:57):
we first started, you know, he called me out of
the Blue Sea, I'm going to see Roxy music tonight.
You want to go to the show? Yeah, stuff like that.
But that was by design in hindsight, because he liked
elements of that, and so if if if he invited
me to a show, a lot of times it had
to do with him wanting me to see that show
(21:19):
because it may relate to what we were doing, you
know what I mean. But you know when you meet people,
when you work with people like that, Um, like I said,
they're all different. Uh. John Lennon was like being in
a band. Would wanted the dudes? You know, it was
it was, it was, it hit, It hit a personal
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note right out of the gate, where with Bowie it
didn't end as time went on. With David, Um, I
didn't really pursue a friendship thing, you know what I mean. Um,
My instincts told me that, and my instincts were right
because one thing about David, Uh, I don't think you
could you could be his friend. I don't think he
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was capable of it. Whereas John was just with everything
he had going on or just as a person just
you think it was. Uh. In the later years, um,
there were there were more occasions because we knew each
other so long as the years went on and so
(22:24):
well that we would have like personal conversations and it
was and also in the later years, the drugs were
gone from all of us, so it was you know
what I mean, it lent u up more to having
something other than a cocaine fueled hangout. I guess I
(22:45):
suppose on that topic, one of my favorite albums of
all time bar none is Station the Station. And for
that album, there's a lot of mythology that surrounds that album. Uh.
You know, according to law Bowie around that time is
almos like this Brian Wilson figure is kind of mysterious figure.
What were those sessions actually like when when you were
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in the room with him? Was because I imagine me
it's it's such especially the title track, it's such a
complicated track. I imagine that the planning that must have
gone into that must have been immense. Funny, there was
no planning going to that track that that that when
we went to make that record. Uh, A lot of
the stuff was the maturial was basically half written. It
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was a work in progress to night. The title track
was two if not three, separate pieces that he had
floating around that we basically as we were going through it,
he was just pulling like half finished things and we
(23:49):
were going him together. And that's how that track happened.
If you listen to what you could hear it, it's
like a mini opera. It's like a quick one that
he's away or something. It starts off with that real
dirty dirge at the beginning. Then it's all up temple
at the end, and it's got that little weird thin
like dude in there. It was. It was chunks glued
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together and somehow he managed to turn it into a
a song. You know, huh. It's amazing how we could
be that out there yet still not alienate people. Like
it's still is so accessible and so just. I mean,
you could say about everything anything he ever does. I mean,
he definitely he brings you along for the ride, but
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he never really alienates. I don't think no. I think
you're right, um, you know, I think what you have
to take into consideration is where our whole society was
at the time, where the music business was at the time,
where the fans were at the time, how how how
(24:53):
young we were at the time. You know, it was
a different world entirely. That world is not even remotely
close to this world in terms of music and bands.
Different I mean not even different ballgame, different world. You know,
there was no with him, which is one of the
(25:16):
things I wanted. There was never some you didn't go
in the studio when we started station. There wasn't some
kind of big plan like this is the kind of
record we're gonna make, and this is how we're gonna Nah.
We just went in there and and it. I don't
think this is funny about what I thought about Station,
the station many times as I go, you know what,
(25:37):
we didn't really make a record. The record happened. We
were just there. I mean, if that makes any sense,
the spontaneity, just organics build up around you. Yea, what
did you play on that was that you st jr Uh.
(25:58):
Some of it's that, A lot of it is uh.
I think it was this nineteen seventy or seventies. That
was the early seventies um Less Paul black One and
I had UH also in nineteen seventy for Less Paul
(26:22):
Anniversary model A white one. Man, what was your ring
back then? I mean this that sound is just oh
my god. I've playing at all by myself. I've been
trying to figure out and I and I am completely lost.
Simple as it gets. Man, it was just a one
Marshall half stack and and you know before I don't
know if we're gonna talk techie shot here, but it
(26:45):
was before they were using the master volumes to drive
the the distoration. So to make that and break up
you had to crank it. And that was it. That
was the rig. That and um my pedal board on
Diamond Dog's tour. My pedal board consisted of one n
(27:05):
x R Phase ninety pedal. That was it. Wow. So
it was it was straight into the amp. Wow, that
is wild. Oh man. But I mean, yeah, I guess
it was all. It was all in your fingers. Then
at that point, it wasn't like well yeah yeah, I
mean when you you know, you learn how to play
(27:30):
guitar and you have the tools in front of you,
your main tools. Right in that case, it was just
a guitar and amp. It wasn't like we started off
with a pedal board. So basically you had to get
what you wanted to get with a guitar amp and
your fingers and your ears. I can't mention station a
(27:52):
station without stay good lord. That is an absolutely incredible track.
I mean, how did that that track build up around you?
That track? Um, it's funny. Uh, you're probably you're you're
a bowie dude. Um, you're familiar with John I'm Only dancing. Okay.
(28:14):
He wanted to redo it. He wanted to get a
new arrangement for it and record it. And um we did. Actually, uh,
we did some rehearsals for that album, not per se
like uh, it was more of a loosen the band up,
(28:34):
you know. We booked a rehearsal place and and and
basically he brought these chunks of ideas and he just
wanted to fool around with him to get a feel
to see what we were doing. And so we started
messing around with John, and um, he wanted a new arrangement,
So he said, can you come up with a lick
or something and we could use that maybe in base
(28:57):
a new arrangement of John I'm Only Dancing off that lick.
So the lick was born and then instead of being John,
it turned into stay if if you you play right
a little bit, A little bit. Um, if you listen
to John I'm only dancing and then listen to Stay
back to back and listen to the chorus and listen
(29:18):
to the chords the same. I never put that together. Wow,
do it? It's the same. It's the same. Bit. So
what was gonna be a rearranged ghon IM only dancing
turn into Stay? That is? I mean, that track is amazing.
Is there a song that you did with David that
that you're the most proud of? Yeah? I mean through
(29:38):
the years, I wouldn't say this anyone, but, um, you know,
like as far as albums go, because of the way
it all went down and what I contributed to its
Station would be my go to Bowie album for me. Um,
(29:59):
and I I can always go by the ones I
love to play. Those would be and off of that album. Uh.
I love playing all of them. But I always loved
doing Station live even more than Stay. I love doing Stay,
but because Station is such a weird trip. Yeah. Uh.
(30:21):
And then over the years, uh, when we when I
started making records with him again in the two thousand's,
the last album we did, last album he did band
album that he did was the Next Day and I
love Valentine's stay on that. That's one of my favorites.
And we never played that live because it wasn't written,
(30:41):
but we were still playing. Oh that that solo on that,
that that Dave Davies lick is so great. I love
that picked up on that. Oh my god, Yeah, that's
that's I think my favorite track on on the Next
Day that. I mean, that's such a funny period to
have worked with him, from you know, seventy four to
(31:01):
I Mean, something I love about David's music is that
it just it evolved so rapidly, like the Beatles, you know,
I mean the Beatles, you go eighteen months you got
Rubber Solda, Sergeant Pepper. Same with David. How did he change?
What changes did you pick up on when you started
working with him again in the in the two thousands.
Had he has his approach to music changed dratstically or not? Really? No, Um,
(31:25):
the way he recorded and did all that with us
didn't change. The only thing that did change was the
technical part of it, because with the new recording techniques,
if we weren't always all in the same room at
the same time recording those new records, like when I
did UM the next day, I didn't play on I
(31:47):
played on I think two basic tracks. Uh, because I
was I was in the room when he brought Valentine's
Day in and played it on acoustic and left it
to me to come up with what I came up with,
you know, because he you know the way he would
(32:07):
do it. A lot of times he would just come
and playing an acous He goes, what are you hearing?
You got any ideas off the cuff? I said, I
hear kinks all over that fucking thing, and he's and
you know, he lit up. And so that's what we did.
So it's like you had mentioned earlier that he brought
people into the fold for specific reasons of what they
(32:29):
did and and so to get the best out of somebody,
you you you don't steer them in some kind of
weird direction like or or a direction that you don't
think that they can go in or you know, bottom
line is is you know what the guy does and
start there. So from that point of view, Uh, his
(32:54):
working methods with me, let's say, never changed. I spoke
with a lucky enough to speak with Gail and Dorsey,
and she was talking about how he would he would
push but gently. He would push you right into outside
your comfort zone, but in a way that helped you
grow and not try to make you something that you weren't. Well,
you know what he had, He had a really good
(33:18):
understanding of what he could and couldn't get out of somebody.
He is instincts told him when we did Station to
station that I could be pushed further in the direction
we took that record, and he was absolutely right. You
(33:41):
played with David off and on for nearly forty years.
Did he ever articulate, either through words or actions, what
it was that he loved about your playing, like why
he kept coming back to you or was it really
just the whole package and feel? No, it was an
understanding and uh and he did say things are remember
when we um the first day uh in in the
(34:06):
summer of two thousand and twelve, when we went in
to do the next day, I hadn't seen him for
a few years, and they walked in the studio and
he said, oh, rock and roll is still here. So
he liked that element of me, you know, because he would,
you know, you would he would insinuate little Keith things
(34:29):
with me. You know, you were the Keith to his
his mix. Yeah, you know, because if you look at
all the guitar players over the years, I don't think
there wasn't a David Bowie guitar type of a person. Yeah.
I mean, if you want to take me and compare
(34:50):
that to Fripp or Blue or even Mick, and me
and Mick were more in the same page, but still
the element was different. You know, on the serious Moonlight
Tour and the Reality Tour, you were playing songs from
throughout his discography some three years, and he obviously changed
to sound a great deal. Was it ever a challenge
(35:12):
to play songs that spans so many different styles and
genres and in many cases were played by different people,
You know what, it would have been a challenge if
I had to cover those guys bases. A matter of fact,
I would have been screwed if I had to do that,
because it's all it's a different ballgame, uh. And that's
why we had two completely different kind of guitar players
(35:34):
on the stage. You know, Jerry Leonard and myself don't
play it at all alike. And and he also, Jerry
loves all that electronics stuff and all that, So you know,
he covered that and I covered the other stuff, so
you weren't being pulled in a direction where you were
just gonna drown in the middle of all that ship.
(35:55):
Is there a m a snapshot in your mind that
you have that really just sums up or encapsulates, uh,
your time with David, all your your years with him
in the studio, around the stage. Wow, it's a hard question.
And that's an awful long time and an awful lot
of memories, I'm sure. Um. The only thing I could
(36:17):
say out of all those years was as compatible as
we were as guys on and off stage, it was
one thing that will stand out. It's a good question,
by the way, Um, one thing that will stand out
is how locked in and connected we were at times
(36:40):
on stage and in the studio, and how maybe from
the outside looking in people would perceive things that air differently,
were as as close as we could get at those times.
We were that far away most of the time. That
(37:00):
makes sense, existing in the same orbit. But never Yeah,
once in a while though, that that really direct connection
would happen and some magical ship would come out of that,
you know, especially you know, and and more on stage
than in the studio, but even in the studio would happen.
But you know, we were we we were by no
(37:23):
means uh operated the same way, but we did have
some similarities. And when it came to uh, personal level stuff,
neither one of us And I'm still like this, we
we we're not the easiest people to get close to,
Let's put it that way, which is probably why after
(37:44):
all the little years, me and David never had a
personal problem ever. And I'm not going to mention any names,
but boy, there was a couple of situations over the
years where that went wrong for some people. And it
wasn't by design from my end. I just my instincts were,
don't get too close to this motherfucker is it can
(38:04):
go wrong. A lot of heat there, I guess. Yeah.
I mean it sounds like you had an understanding it was,
and that's probably something he appreciated about you. It probably
had so many people that were trying to get to him.
You know what, You're absolutely right, and that was never
stated verbally, but I know, damn well that was appreciated.
(38:25):
And what I appreciated was the fact that he never
hid the fact that he could be the most inconsistent
person on the planet. Uh, whereas you know, you'll come
off a tour, like serious moonlight tour. And he says, oh,
because we finished that in the end of the year.
It was like December or something like that of eighty
(38:48):
three and and um, so we're getting ready to jump
into and he goes, hey, it's slicky here. We're gonna go.
I'm back in the studio in January. So you got
like a month off and we're back in never heard
from him, and you just and that was okay. And
you know what, man, it wasn't really okay okay, but
(39:10):
it was no surprise. It wasn't like I went, wow, man,
what happened? Then I go up there he goes again.
So I would move on and do something else, knowing
that if and when we ever connected again, we'd be
right back to that good spot that we always had.
And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. I was gonna ask
(39:32):
if you just fall right back into place after all
those years, like a you know, like a coffy par
of shoes or something. Yeah, because you know, and I've
seen this and you've seen this too in life. Is
um when things like that happened? Right? Um? For instance,
you know, I don't. I'm I'm told we're going in
the studio in a month, and I don't hear anything
(39:55):
from him. Sure, I was a little piste off, you know,
But thinking about it when we did reconnect again, First
of all, nothing was said about it. There was no
reason to say anything about it. And it's like it
never happened. And it was like when we did the
next day, I hadn't heard from him for a while,
(40:16):
and unbeknownst to me, he'd been in the studio on
and off for a year before he called me to
do that record. And this is how weird this ship is.
I ended up on that record by a complete twist
of faith because you know, I had been in touch
with the other band members because we were all friends,
and they've been in recording, like Jerry Lennon was doing
(40:38):
the guitars and Sterling was playing and uh, because they
had to sign an agreement and shut up, they couldn't
tell me they were doing it. And these are my buddies, right, Uh.
And you know, you don't get piste off about it.
It is what it is. But so, and I've told
this story before, you might I might be repeating myself up,
(41:00):
I am, you can stop me. But in July. No,
actually it was around April or so, maybe April or
May of two thousand and twelve. I was in New
Jersey sitting in at this blues club and I went,
I have a friend. He said, the doctor. And uh.
(41:22):
He also, this guy does everything. He's a surgeon. But
he built his own airplane. Okay, he does this kind
of ship and he flies it. I've been in the
plane with him. And he built a Cobra. Yeah, Shelby,
yes man. So it was a really nice day. You know,
it must have been around the spring, because I remembered
(41:43):
that it was. The trees were already and and he said,
let's hey, let's drive to the to the to the
gig in this. I said, fuck, yeah, cool. We get
in the car. Something had been done wrong with the
fuel system. Long story short. We're driving the car and
I start seeing smoke come up the hood and cars
(42:06):
not running very well. We get out of the car
and within sixty seconds the car has gone. It went
up in plane and so. And this is in the
middle of the air afternoon in Montclair, New Jersey. Right,
it was a very It's all of doctors and lawyers houses, right,
(42:28):
and you know there's a fire department, the cops, and
there were some pressed people there and one of them
pinned me because, you know, figured out who is this
guy figured it out? So it the incident hit the
internet within an hour. You know. It's not like you
have to wait for newspapers to be printed anymore, you know.
He tweeted it right out and David saw it. Uh.
(42:53):
And I got an email from David the next morning
is hey, man, I saw the news when happened you okay, yeah,
it's fine, nobody got hurt. Blah blah blah. Oh cool,
all right, great calculator. You know, within a few hours
I got another email, so how are you doing? What
are you up to? Right? I'm getting these over a
(43:17):
period of about a day or two. I'm going, okay,
he's fishing. Finally, I said, okay, is there anything you
want to talk about on the This is all through email,
no phone calls, and and then he drops the bomb
on me about making the record. So had I not
blown this fucking car up, likely would not have been
(43:39):
on that record. And that that's not me exaggerating opportunities
coming in strange shapes and size as I guess that
is so Bowie. You know. That's why after all those
years when things would he didn't work out where he
said they were going to, I didn't. I never took
(44:01):
it personally. One thing about being around that guy. If
you had thin skin, you were in the wrong band.
And it wasn't like he. It wasn't like a vindictive,
mean guy. It's just, you know, if you were gonna
get your feelings hurt because you were asked to play
on a record and and and nobody botted to call
you that you're in the wrong place. It was the
(44:23):
wrong industry too, when you were in the wrong industry. Yeah,
but you know it was it was all the time,
you know. Uh you know, why the hell did you know?
Because we had a blowout in seventy at the end
of seventy five early seventies six, after we did the station.
That's why I'm not on that. That's why I disappeared.
But it had nothing to do with him. It was business.
(44:43):
It was our managers and it exploded. So it wasn't
a personal thing. I mean, it did get personal, but
that wasn't the root of the problem. Uh So why
after that whole explosion. Does he call me back in
to cover the basis for the series Moonlight Tour? You know,
there's a reason. Maybe it's the same reason he didn't
(45:04):
call me for the other album. Who knows. But you know,
it's the kind of thing that I never really put
any thought into, because why you just trusted. Yeah. Do
you remember the the last time that you you made
music together with him? Yeah? It was on the next day,
(45:25):
and um, the last This is funny because it was
a funny day. The last track I did we had cut,
I don't know. We we did some basic tracks. Oh
you could set the world on fire, or we will
set the world on fire. And we'd cut the basic
track a few days earlier, and we needed to do
(45:45):
the solo. I said to do my solo. And I
was distracted by some tech stuff that was going on,
and I wasn't locking in that well, you know, and
I knew it, you know, And so he started to
get uh, he started getting impatient and the way that
was not normal for him, right, and it piste me off.
(46:09):
So I blew up at him, and so we had
this little blow up. I was in the studio in
the main room with my headphones on, and he's in
the control room and we were I really went off,
and there was VISCONTI was in the room and a
couple of the texts were in the room. The text frozen, terrified,
(46:32):
froze they I don't I think they were afraid to
to breathe. And um. So after that, David just threw
his hands up, right, and so I go to viscontry. Okay,
Tony's try it again. All right, try it again. I
nailed one time through, right, So as I played a
(46:56):
last note, here's David popping up. I can see through
the glass and he's waving his arms and he HiT's
the key, HiT's the intercom going slicky. That was incendiary,
and that was fucking great. That's done. Come on here,
So I come in. I talked to myself, you know what,
this fucking guy pissed me off on purpose? Did you
(47:19):
do that on purpose? And he just looked at me
with this kind of like you will never know. So
that was my last memory of the last day that
we have worked together. Off the Record is a production
(47:41):
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