Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome everyone to a brand new episode on Call with KP.
I am your host KP, and today I'm so happy
because joining me for you know, all of the inside
scoop on Grades Anatomy season nine episode twenty two, called
Do You Believe In Magic is my fantastic super producer
(00:36):
Randy from Wordy Productions. And shout out to Randy because
I I said, Randy, not you really being a high
key the biggest super fan and you have not been
on yet, so I to and for this episode. So
thank you Randy for joining us. You're welcome. Thank you KB.
It's so excited I get to be on the last
(00:57):
episode of the season. This was it was great editing
it and it's such a great show and I'm so excited.
Oh my goodness, Like this episode is wild. I might
say that all the time, but anyway, So in this
week's episode, we have Lauren Boswell portrayed by Hilary Burton
now Morrigan, who was known for her time on One
(01:21):
Tree Hill also now happens to be married to Jeffrey
Dean Morrigan, who played Denny, the iconic Denny in the
Izzy and Denny Relationships. So they are now married in
real life, but she guest starred as um, you know,
kind of a surgical specialist that comes to Grace Sloan
Seattle Grace two point oh child. I don't know because
they changed the names all the time, um, but I
(01:42):
can refer to it as she comes to the hospital
formerly known as Seattle Grace, and there is like instant
electric chemistry between her and Arizona. And I'm like, Arizona, girl,
you know you're still married to CALLI, right, you might
want to watch out, but Arizona is just kind of,
you know, swept up in the moment of the newness
of Lauren Boswell. But elsewhere, we have another big patient
(02:04):
case where Kayla, the patient comes in because her husband
is a terrible magician and saws her right on up
during the act. I can't imagine being in the audience
of that show and seeing this man, you know, use
this saw and the trick not working and just seeing
blood everywhere. I cannot imagine what that was like. Um.
And you know, in addition to being a bad magician,
(02:27):
he is also apparently not a good husband because he
doesn't notice that. You know, Kayla his wife, and Cherise,
his assistant, are lovers so you know, um, that was
a huge plot twist that he truly did not see
coming because he was just so concerned with the money
and the fame of it all. And elsewhere, on a
very somber note, we have Alex and Joe. They're going
(02:48):
through a lot, but come to find out Joe is
in an abusive relationship with Jason and things come to
a head with them and Owen and Christina, who the
sada I the more I think about it, the more
I don't like them as a couple. But Owen uh
feels a heavy connection with this little boy Ethan who
you know, his father is in a coma and they're
(03:09):
trying to figure out how to wake him up. Um.
And Christina kind of notices this, and she notices a
shift in Owen. She notices that he wants to have kids,
and that really is the beginning of the end for them,
because as we have known since day one pretty much
on this show, Christina does not want to have children,
like it's just not something that she desires for her life.
And ironically she always picked these partners who do want kids.
(03:30):
And I'll be my girl. I don't know how do
we get here? Um, But those are just some of
the highlights that we will get into. So my first
question for you, Randy, Uh, you know, when did you
first all in love with Gray's Anatomy and kind of
where were you? How did it make you feel when
you first experienced it in those first moments? Okay, so yeah,
(03:50):
this episode was crazy. But I first experienced Gray's um
in twelve, so we'd already been out for like seven years.
I had, of course heard about the showing things, but
I was bent on like not watching it. I don't
know why I was trying. I don't even know why.
But I went to Gone, I studied You Brought and
Gone my sophomore year of college. And when I came back,
(04:12):
my grandmother had passed and I was just really down bad,
and I was the only one like home because I
came back from Gona way earlier than I was supposed to,
and so I was like still on. I couldn't go
back to school because the semester was still in session
and I didn't have anywhere to live on campus, and
Christmas break was following right afterwards, so I was like
(04:33):
home for a month and I spent the entire time
bench watching Gray's anatomy. I do not know why I
felt pulled to Wood, but I just sat there and
I I bench like, I don't even know up to
the season six or seven, I don't even know, but
I sat there and I just watched every episode in
(04:53):
tears and and everything. And I think you actually had
a super fan on recently who said it's like cathartic,
and so I really felt like I got to, you know,
be in my grief and mourn and like watch all
these relationships and then watch all this death and like
it's crazy. And then throughout my pregnancies, I also turned
to Grays and private practice. UM, and my husband got
(05:15):
hooked on grades and private practice. UM. We were pregnant
with with our daughter now and UM, and so it's
it's just it's a show that we lean on when
the world does not make sense. So yeah, you know what,
it is interesting how people's journeys, UM, you know, kind
of guide them to that. And so I know what
you're talking about, you know. I I it was Preanka
(05:37):
who said that. You know, she was just kind of
at a life moment um and had some health things
going on with her father, and that's what kind of
drew her into the show. So it is very interesting
how different stages of life bring us to certain art forms,
and how those art forms you know, kind of are
a reflection of what's going on in our lives but
also oddly enough a comfort in in some ways. Um,
(06:00):
you know, just depending on what's happening. So you know,
every episode has relationship drama, and Alex and Joe are
probably at the center of this one, but really so
are Arizona and Callie because there are so many things happening. Um,
and Arizona is flirting, like, girl, please stop pretending like
you're not flirting. You're definitely flirting. So you know, what
(06:20):
did you think about Arizona's instant chemistry with Lauren Boswell,
the mysterious Lauren Boswell. And also why does it seem
like Jackson is completely oblivious because Jackson keep being like, oh,
she's so kind. Now, Jackson, I know you see this flirting,
and I know you see her only looking at Arizona
but talking to you. I'm like, she has not taken
her eyes off of Arizona, Like Jackson, you're essentially not
(06:42):
even here, but still like, oh, you know, like it's
so lovely. How she just makes people feel this way,
and so it's interesting because I feel like this was
during the time where Callie, if I remember correctly, was
kind of distant and cold to Arizona after her amputation,
and um, Lauren kind of sweeps in at the right moment,
making Arizona feel kind of desired and loved as every
(07:06):
human being should. But you know, Arizona was really kind
of struggling, um naturally with you know, having her like
amputated and not feeling like herself, you know what I mean,
and not feeling fully deserving of love. There was like
a lot of complicated emotions for her in that. So, yeah, like,
how did you feel about Arizona and Lauren? I was
(07:28):
so sad. I remember, I was like, oh my goud
It's been years since I've seen this this episode and
in this season, but I remember when they started flirting.
I can't remember this is the one that Arizona teats with.
But um, I was just like, oh no, because I
really I really like Arizona and Callie together. I really did. Um.
(07:54):
I think that they had great chemistry, you know, like
I just really liked their love stories. But to your point,
when after the you know, plane crash and everyone's leg
actually get amputated, and um, I don't remember Kelly being
cold to her, but I remember Callie treating her like
she was like a child. Like she was you know,
she was she was doing the most, and Arizona just
wanted to feel normal. But she also didn't want Calli to,
(08:16):
you know, be on her like she couldn't like she
wasn't like a strong woman and she couldn't do for herself.
She wanted her to to like back off, but also,
you know, treat me like I'm normal. That's that's what
I remember. And it seems like it's gotten very like
business casual between them. And so when Lauren comes in
and it's just like instant sparks and she's very flirtatious.
(08:36):
It kind of reminded me of them, Arizona and Kelly
when they first started. But yeah, I was very sad
because I was like, this is the end of the beginning,
you know, the beginning of the end, and they I'm
thinking about the thing going to court, like I just
it just all came flooding back, and I was so sad,
and I was like Laurence stap it. But but but
(08:57):
very business casual, but it's true, like they have a
very transactional relationship kind of at this juncture um, and
it is moving through the day, it's moving through life.
It's less about passion, if that makes sense, And Lauren
is the person who kind of reignites that passion. And truthfully,
for Arizona and Cali, like Lauren just happens to be
(09:21):
the catalyst to unearth some things that they should have
already been talking about, if that makes sense. But and
who Okay, so what did you make of Alex this episode?
Because he's giving Joe a hard time and it seems
like he doesn't have any empathy for her. But in reality,
Alex always chooses kind of the same type of women.
(09:42):
He is a fixer and maybe he likes a little
bit of a challenge romantically, I don't know. But what
I desire for Alex is a love of ease um,
a love of peace UM. And I do know that,
Like eventually he and Joe get there and they have
a very strong and healthy relationship until you know, he
essentially blows it up to go be with these kids
(10:04):
he knew nothing about and Isy that's a different story. However,
his growth when it comes to relationships and when it
comes to Joe specifically, um is really good to see.
But here, right now, they are not in a good place,
and we don't see that Jason and Joe are in
an abusive relationship until you know, we don't see that
Joe is in an abusive relationship and dealing with domestic
(10:27):
violence until the very end of the episode. But what
we see is Alex is hurt and I think from
his perspective, he thinks that Joe just kind of left
him for Jason. Um, you know, and it is not
necessarily as toxic as he thinks. He knows it's toxic,
but maybe it's not as toxic. I can't recall. But
what do you think about Alex? Uh? And in this episode?
(10:50):
Alex has always been one of my least favorite character.
That his growth, I know, but like it took too long.
Like Okay, we get it, like we get it, your
child hold was awful, and people leave you and all
these things, we get it, But this whole nonchalant and
(11:11):
then like the anger when you're when you're not chosen,
or the anger when like this up and down sensitivity.
It's so chaotic. It's just so many reflex to me.
I'm just like, I like, like, get it together, Like
he's just he's childish. I find it to be quite
childish for too long, Like, dude, you are grown. So yeah,
(11:32):
he really he has always he has always fathered me.
But this episode, because I've been you know, it's been
so long since I've seen it, I couldn't remember why
they you know, we're beef him, but um, he does
seems to go for the girl that can't behaved, seems
to go for the girl that's like emotionally, I don't
even know who wants to be saved. I don't know,
but either way, I was very frustrated this episode with
(11:52):
him because he just won't communicate. He just doesn't communicate,
and Joe is not communicated either, so you know, I
can't just put that cells I am, but for this
episode I was very irritated with him. But by the
end of when we see that like Joe really needs
him and these help, of course she's gonna let her
come in. But yeah, no, I was just like, isn't
this play like as see the nine episode twenty two?
(12:13):
Why are you still the same way you were season one? Okay, listen,
I'm not gonna argue with you about Alex because I
know the truth when it comes to I know what's
the truth is. So I mean, you know, listening, I
feel like by season nine, Alex definitely has a lot
(12:33):
of growth, even in his romantic relationships, not just his friendships. Um.
But let's get into Miranda, because Miranda has reached her
breaking point. You know, she's really blaming herself for all
of these patients dying, and she's spiraling. And so while
everyone is looking to have Miranda talk to them because
they need something from her, this isn't like h Miranda,
(12:55):
We're concerned about you. This is Miranda. We need your
help at the hospital. So why aren't you talking to us?
And and we need you to still like us so
you can do something for us. Um, which I found
to be quite cringeing. It's really Richer who sees that
this is beyond kind of a professional petty so to speak,
which is what they think, like, oh, she's giving us
a silent treatment, Um, and this is something emotional is
(13:18):
happening with her. Something is wrong. So he calls Ben
um on her behalf, because Ben is really the person
that she needs in this moment, and So let's just
talk a little bit about the portrayal of the strong
black woman, because you know, everyone is kind of ignoring
the signs that Miranda is not okay, but they're focused
on the fact that she is a rock star surgeon
and she needs to be doing surgery and she is,
(13:41):
you know, great at hospital admin in the hospital doesn't
run without her. And you know, there's so many lovely
things that Miranda can do, do do, but no one
is concerned about her and her spirit. Um and you know,
this portrayal of strong black women on screen and what
happens and everything comes crashing down. You know, how do
(14:02):
we feel about Miranda's journey at this episode? And you know, um,
I appreciate Ben being her soft place to land, but
I think it opens up a larger conversation for her
colleagues and her coworkers just start treating her like a
human being. Well, you know that's so interesting because so
for why we all know that like Bailey is like
their mom, you know, like she's this is the person
(14:24):
that they've always had since the show started, you know,
and I think in this instance, all of them acting
how they were acting reminded me of like toddlers, like
reminded me of like you are having the worst day
of your life and your baby does not care. Your
baby wants prosna. Actually baby has to be your baby,
like the baby wants to play, your baby climbing on you,
(14:46):
and you just feel like the world is crumbling and
they don't care. They don't see you because they only
see you in the capacity as like mom. And so
I saw them as only standing her as like Bailey.
They think she's being petty. They can't imagine that she's
had think like this major grief um about feeling guilty
about killing these people, you know, are feeling shame and
feeling like she did, like blaming herself because all they
(15:08):
see is is mom, which is still you know, problematic.
There's a very in Mesh dysfunctional hospital family. But I
think that Richard, I think he does see her, but
he also realizes he can't give her what she needs
in a sense of like he's also kind of parentified
by her some way, and he's also like, you know,
but sometimes when you're down and you don't understand what's wrong, Mom,
(15:30):
you're going to tell your dad and you're going to
tell you know, the partner you're going to tell you know,
the next adult that's in that's that's in relation to
the person. And so that's what I saw. I saw
him being like, let me call because Ben sees her
not just as like a mom obviously, he sees her
as a woman as you know, the love of his life,
(15:51):
as his wife, and so he's able to tap in
a different way, which is why it was so beautiful
e sad as she was and how she needed him.
Uh And it was clear that know, it was the
right choice for him to come in. But in terms
of the strong black woman Trump, it is a problem
that she's the head. She's not the chief right now,
you know she's not. She but she's like the head
of like the household in this hospital, and it's a
(16:13):
lot of pressure and it does it does hurt her
in terms of like being invisible because again, no one's understanding.
No one's at the door saying don't blame yourself. You know,
they're all at the door like not being petty and
don't give you the salent treatment and you're being ridiculous
and I'm sorry about the CDC and it's like you
don't even know what's wrong. But children rarely do, you know,
(16:34):
and she also know that they can't they can't help
where they can't handle it is, you know, so she
doesn't disclose to them what's really going on, not until
she's had you been to to hold her and things,
and so it sucks and it hurts that, like she
spent the whole episode getting berated, you know. But I
didn't see it as something necessarily malicious or like in
(16:56):
that sense. I saw it as like, y'all are really
y'all only see her as one way because she's always
been Bailey. You know, she's trying to hold the baby in,
she's you know, she's this is somebody, somebody she's like,
she does been very strong, she's always been very level headed.
She's always been able to just to understand that, yeah,
you lost this person, but it wasn't your fault. But
(17:18):
that's her term to remember that, and it's hard for
her to tap in. Yeah, so I still think that,
you know, it may not be delicious, but it is
still cringe e because you are all adults, and so
for me it's you still are adults. You still this
is a professional environment, and to not be concerned about
her well being is a problem, and you know, black
(17:38):
women are rarely humanized on screen, and so I think
this was a moment where we're showing additional vulnerability from
Miranda side. I mean, she's had vulnerable moments, particularly when
she was, you know, giving birth. I remember that episode
with Georgins, so you know, she she had to let
her guard down because her husband had a crisis. But
I think this is the beginning of something that happens
with Miranda because even in the current seasons, she gets
(18:01):
to have a softer life, um, you know, and for me,
I think that that's very important to be able to
see on screen as black women. But yeah, I think
that like for them, they're adults, and I get the
child analogy that totally makes sense because they do view
her in that light. But also on the on the
converse side is we're all adults here and at some
point you need to be concerned with her well being
(18:23):
and not what she can do for you. And so
I think that that's something internally that all of them
as adults need to look at. And I think hopefully,
you know, with Ben stepping in and understanding that this
is more of an emotional issue and need and she
needs time, which also happens later on in seasons, like
Bailey really takes charge of her mental health, which I
(18:43):
like seeing now in this capacity. She's like, y'all, it's
now like I can't do it. I can't do it,
And that's fine, but you're right. I think it definitely
the child analogy works specifically because they're all waiting outside
the bathroom for her, which is something you know, kids
don't person's face. I think that that works in the
instance for sure. But all right, So then there's Christina
(19:07):
and Owen. You know, Owen is very clearly bonding with
this child um. And since Christina is very firm on,
you know, not having kids, do you think they should
call it quits now? I mean, obviously they don't. They
keep going for a little bit. But when your partner's
needs change, because everyone is allowed to change your mind, right,
And Owen did kind of enter into this relationship saying
(19:28):
he didn't want kids, and even in this episode, Christina says, oh,
you've changed, you want kids, um, And so she knows
that that's a huge deal breaker for the both of them,
and Owen keeps trying to reassure her like no, no, no,
I want you. I want you, I want you. It's
not about the kids. But I think deep down she knows,
you know, like this is something that will never go away.
(19:49):
He wants to be a father, and we see in
the evolution of Owen as the seasons progress, Oh, it
becomes a great father to a bunch of kids, you know,
and this is kind of the joy in the highlight
of his life. I think Christina was going to leave
the hospital either way, but I think when you know,
Sandra said, hey, I'm not coming back to portray this character,
it really did leave the door open for her to amicably,
(20:13):
you know, split with Owen, and for Owen to open
up his mind and his heart to being a father
because he had kind of pushed that to the side,
those desires once he chose to be with Christina. So,
you know, kind of when your partners needs change and
you can no longer give them what they desire, you know.
Do you feel like in this instant it was you know,
(20:33):
Christina's obligation to kind of set him free so that
he could find what it is that he wanted. Um.
I Yeah, there was a desperation in his voice and
he's like, I want you, I want you, Like he's
trying to convince himself that that's all he needs, and
she's looking at him like, oh lord, you know, but
she also I think there's also something to be said
about sometimes you know it's over or it's gonna be over,
(20:56):
but you don't want to let go, you know, like
we can, we can do this row together. To me,
seemed like a silent contract, like let's just keep playing
this game. But I do think that she should have
been like instead of asking do you want kids? Christina
is very she She's also don't have to be very
firm and to be very like, I'm not stupid. Don't
guys like me, you know, like she's you want kids
and you know how this goes. But she loves Owen.
(21:17):
I think, Um. I do think she loves when they
love each other. And she's also maybe kind of hoping
he doesn't, but it's so clear that he does. Um,
he's so good with kids. You know, he's like Alex
in this sense, like you're just in denial about your
strengths and your desires and what it concerns, like working
in peace for Alex and her own wanting children, And
(21:39):
she can definitely see that she's not. She doesn't believe him.
You can definitely see his desperation. He doesn't want to
lose Christina again. They love each other. But yeah, I
think she definitely should have been like, no, you do
want kids, and we need to have this talk now
instead of like next season. Yeah, and you know what,
sometimes love is not enough, like where you love someone
(22:00):
and that's great, but you know that, I don't think
Owen would have been truly living the life that he
was meant to live if Christina didn't go off and
move to another country to do groundbreaking medicine, you know
what I mean, Like Christina would have been living in
her life, right, both of them, both of them. It's
it's easy that you know, Christina had kind of outgrown
(22:23):
um what the hospital formerly known as Seattle Grace could
have done for her career in a lot of ways,
and she needed to know somewhere else to be able
to innovate in the way that she wanted to. And
I think that opportunity needed to happen so that Owen
as well could flourish as a father, because that's really
his true heart's desire. And you're right, you know, there
(22:43):
is that moment where he's trying to convince himself, and
she liked, maybe I already know, so like, you're right,
this kind of unspoken expiration date, so to speak, because
it's it's truly the beginning of the end, and so
I was just who. But on the converse side, let's
get to Meredith and Derek because they're expecting a baby.
(23:05):
They're expecting a son, and Meredith has an incident and
so Owen is like, Okay, I'm gonna bend you from surgery,
and she's really upset. It's very upset, but it's clearly
the right call because by the end of the season,
she gives birth. So what is it the same week?
You know, like essentially she's gonna have It's clear that she,
(23:26):
you know, kind of needed to to just rest for
a little bit. So let's talk about women in the
workplace while pregnant, because Meredith is upset and she doesn't
want to be treated any differently. But it's also two
things gonna be true. She should not be treated differently
if that's not what she desires, but also she does
need to slow down, like to like, girl, you are
(23:47):
nearing giving birth, so do you think what do you
think about meredith fight for kind of equal treatment in
this episode. Oh Lord. As a working mom, I definitely like,
I get it right. You want to be able to
do the same things, you want to be there the
same way. But the truth is you just can't like you.
It's not just you anymore, Meredith. You have a child
inside of you and I you can't just go how
(24:08):
you used to go, um and you have to be
you can't do this hustle and bustle of surgery, especially
as pregnant as you are, like you, and you're also
not even like new pregnant, you've been pregnant for a minute.
And so I think that A one was right. I
think it's hard for women who used to be able
to do and be whoever they were to stop, especially
(24:30):
in Meredith's case, and so I deeply empathize. But I
also think that it's not an equal treatment. It's boundaries
because you need them. And when you're pregnant, one foot
is over here and one foot is over there, like
you are, you are across the threshold and things go
wrong all the time and you need to sit out,
(24:50):
so you need down, and I should point out on
one benched you're out of concern they are friends. Yeah,
this has nothing to do with me stretched hugically trying
to push you out from a you know, professional perspective,
and I just want you to be okay. Right, So
let's talk about your favorite character this episode. And I
know it wasn't Alex, so let's talk about um and
(25:15):
you know, choose wisely, my favorite character this episode was Bailey.
I really loved, like, you know, the softness this this
she really captured, like what it feels like to grieve
and to blame yourself and then Ben comes in, you know,
and she then she really captured what it feels like
(25:35):
to be a wife and or you know, a partner
or somebody who was loved who need somebody loving near her.
And I thought she did very well like keeping her
cool with them, like berating her um, but also like
just showcasing vulnerability, like she finally explained to them what
had been going on. She said she felt dirty up
(25:57):
my heart. I was like, man, I'm just hoping she
gets the healing you know, that she needs, and she does,
you know, on the piece that she needs from this,
but she has to feel it, you know, And she
had been kind of not feeling it about attracting herself
by testing herself and it's all negative and you know,
but she she has to feel it. And I think
that when be income she kind of just it was
very powerful and profound for me to just see her
(26:19):
open up and um, admit what's been what's been plaguing her?
And so yeah, she was my favorite. Yeah. I mean,
I think that having this level of softness is something
that we have been desiring to see more of and Miranda,
and it's unfortunate it's around kind of this guilt, but
I'm glad that it does come. She's not my favorite
this episode. Um, I think that Owen might be my
(26:40):
favorite this episode, and ironically he directed this episode really
but I still think even though he is in this episode,
probably the least, and also because he's directing, I think
it's because he just his affinity towards Ethan um, how
he's treating Meredith with care, how he really is trying
(27:02):
to treat everyone with care, with ease, with intention. So
I would say, yeah, for this episode, surprisingly, he is
my favorite. And then I will say I would give
a second honorary mention to Ben because even though Ben,
it only comes in the end so it's nice to
see even here in this relationship, because even even here
(27:22):
Ben has to kind of gently scold and say, oh
we're married, like I'm your husband, let me know. So
I would say Ben is a is a secondary for
that's a good honorary one. That's a good honorary one.
But yes, yes, well, Randy is always a pleasure. Thank
you so much for joining the show. And now just
(27:43):
a quick break before we dive into our next segment.
I am delighted because today is a special episode where
I am going to dive into season nine, episode twenty
two of Grey's Anatomy called Do You Believe In Magic?
With I don't know if you've ever seen any of
(28:05):
his TikTok's, but he is a pretty famous neurosurgeon in
my opinion. Dr Hoflinger, Welcome, Hi, how are you? Oh
my gosh, doing well? I am excited excited to chat.
So first I have to ask, you know, tell my
listeners a little bit about your life and how did
you get engineuro surgery? Yeah, so you know, I'm um,
(28:27):
I'm a nerse surgeon tled Ohio. I'm fifty eight years old.
My wife is a retired forensic pathologist, she retired after
our fourth child about twenty years ago. So UM we
had four children. UM Brian our oldest. He died ten
years ago when he was eighteen and in a drunk
driving accident. And so I have three other children. I
(28:47):
have Kevin, who's twenty five now and he's starting his
own business. And I have my daughter Julie, who's twenty
three and she UM is in London. She came home
for the holidays, but she's doing a graduate program in
London and in scientific writing. And then my youngest daughter, Christie,
just had her first baby. So we just became grandparents
a couple of weeks ago. Oh my corats on becoming
(29:12):
that's quite the experience. I'm glad I'm young when it happened. UM,
And then you know why I came anursurgeon. It's pretty
easy for me. It's kind of so. When I was
um finishing up high school, I was actually gonna do
marine biology because I loved the scupid I and I
was signed up at the University of South Florida and
Tampa to go into marine biology. And my brother, who
was twenty one, got in a car accident. A drunk
(29:32):
driver hit him and UM he had emergency brain surgeon
in the middle of the night and was in a
coma for six months, and they thought he was gonna die.
We were told he was going to die. But you know,
staying in the intensive carry unit, meeting the nurs surgeon,
they're just seeing that environment just really changed my mind
about life. And I really wanted to do something to
potentially help people like my brother. And so I dropped
(29:55):
out of the school at South Florida and I UM,
I moved home and I started in college with the
intent of becoming a nurse surgeon. And so I did
four years of college, one in the medical school, and
then to my second year of medical school. My mom
one morning woke up and she couldn't write anymore, and
she loved the write letters, and I could see her
hand was weak, and I took her. I called the
(30:15):
nurse surgeon that I knew at the hospital operating in
my brother, and UM, he did a cat scan and
she had about five brain tumors in her brain and um,
you know, she had several brain surgeries and chemotherapy and
radiation therapy and she died three months later. And so
that kind of solidified it for me that I really
needed to go into nurse surgery, and so I finished
medical school, got into a good residency program, did my
(30:37):
seven years, and I became a nurse surgeon. Wow. Well
a lot of history. Yes. Well, first, I'm so sorry
about your son. Yeah. Thanks, that's been That's been the
most life altering event that I can ever tell you about. Um,
that's very very challenging. And um with regard to your brother,
because I mean they were they were in a similar situation,
(31:00):
being in these you know, drunk driving accidents. How did
your brother recover after that emergency and after the coma? Yeah,
so he he It's not like in the movies. You
wake up very slowly. So I mean, over the course
of six months, he started open his eyes and and
then by a year he could mumble words, but he
could never talk again. It was his dominant side of
(31:20):
his brain that got injured, so he was paralyzed on
his right side and could never talk again. And I
mean he required constant care. I mean it. Um. You know,
my mother devoted the rest of her life taking care
of him, and then my grandmother and then my father,
and then when they all passed, my mom and my
dad died. You know, Eric ended up in a nursing
home and he passed away about he's three years old.
(31:41):
Of me, he passed away about eight years ago, I think.
But you know it's um That's why I think twice
about when people come in with head injuries and emergency
surgery really have to think about what what quality life
are you going to give someone if you take him
to surgery. UM. So those are conversations I have a
lot with people, um before I do emergency surgery and
just with like my son. I mean, that's like an
(32:02):
episode of Gray's Anatomy what went on that night? And
I was a near a surgeon on call for the
hospital when my son was in the accident. But you
learn a lot through personal experience about what you recommend
to people and how you talk to people and how
you deal with patients. And I use a lot of
personal you know, a lot of personal knowledge to talk
to people about you know, you know, people understand that
I've been through a lot and I've been in their position,
(32:23):
and so I think they trust me to help them
make decisions. If that makes sense. Yeah, you know it's
interesting because how did these very personal events kind of
shape you or your thought process, not just you know,
once you actually became a new surgeon, but even in
medical school, like your approach to studying this medicine and
(32:44):
also your approach to bedside manner right well, bedside manner
has been obviously. I mean I treat people as people
because they're not. You know, when you're in residency, you're
just seeing people as fast as you can. They're not
really um you know what I'm saying. It's not there's
no personal attachment there. You know, you just do your
job and you know, you tell the patients they need surgery,
but there's no empathy. But when you go through stuff
(33:05):
like this, it really hits home. And I can really
sympathize and empathize with the people that are going through
this because I've been through it myself, you know, and
it makes a big difference. So I do spend a
lot of time with patients in the office, even if
they're going to have a you know, elect of surgery,
I sit down and really talk to them. But especially
in emergency situations, I spend a lot of time talking
the families, answering their questions. And if they're not going
(33:25):
to do surgery, they're gonna let their love one die.
Just help them feel comfortable with that, because it's not
there's not a right or wrong answer. You don't always
have to rush somebody off to surgery in the middle
of the night to save them, you know, And it's
not always the right decision, but you have to help
the family come to terms with that so they don't
feel guilty down the road, right, because it's not an
easy decision to make, particularly when you have someone's kind
(33:48):
of life hanging in the balance. Um. And as a
family member who has been designated to be kind of
responsible for that decision, You're right, it weighs very heavily
on you. You know, you can't take it lightly. And
then also to your point, you know you don't want
it to be shrouded and guilt, um. Whatever, whatever the decision. Maybe, um,
(34:10):
but you mentioned that your personal experience with your son
could have been something out of Gray's anatomy. I do
have to ask, because I ask all of my guests this.
You know, what is the first episode of the show
that you watched, and you know, like, what did you
initially think? And maybe you you know, like I, I
don't know at what stage in your career that you
(34:30):
were in if you've watched it prior to Yeah, I
don't know. I mean I didn't watch Gray's An Enemy
UM diligently, but it would probably be the earlier episodes
of the early years, And I don't know when it
first came out, but I remember watching it periodically, and
because everybody's talking about the neurosurgeon in this McDreamy, and
then I remember mc steam and some other characters. So
it's kind of funny to watch it because having lived
(34:53):
through real life, a lot of it's just not true
and it's all dramatized and stuff like that does not
happen in the hospital. And there's other things that they
get accurate about the surgery they're doing and things like that.
So it has you know, it has humor to it
in my mind when I watch it, because I just
have to laugh. And there's other things that you know,
you can see are somebody puts some some research into
(35:14):
UM making it accurate. Yeah, yeah, I think that, Like
it's interesting because you're right, there's a lot of high stakes,
high drama. But everyone that I've talked to, you know,
even if they didn't watch a full episode, they knew
who certain doctors were because people were constantly talking about
them throughout their lives and throughout their careers and their profession.
(35:35):
Like well, just like the name of the show, I
learned years down the road that it was actually Meritus
mom right who was great? And that's why I never
knew that as years because you just who knows. Yeah,
but in this episode, you know, how did you feel
about it overall? Like give me some general kind of
highlights for you low lights and maybe even you know,
(35:56):
it's like drama that doesn't exist, right, So like the patients,
families aren't there arguing in front of their loved one,
you know, I mean they're not. You're not in the
hospitals and they're arguing why someone's being treated, you know,
I mean they don't. We don't let families back like that,
we do, but they're not sitting there arguing and they're
not yelling at the doctors. Like like the drunk girls.
You know that that kind of stuff doesn't really go on.
(36:18):
They would have had those girls out of the air
in two seconds. Um. So there's a lot of stuff
like that that just doesn't doesn't. You know, maybe in
a if I'm coming in for a level one trauma
head injury and everybody the trauma teams there and we're
all in the you know, the trauma room. Things can
get pretty busy and hustle, but it's very organized. People
have their roles. There's no family in there. You're trying
to save the person's life, you know. So but I
(36:40):
you know, things about this episode that struck me right
away was like, you know, I mean, somebody comes in
with a chainsaw, injury to their abdomen and maybe dead.
They're gonna cut so many blood vessels they would have
blood to death. So it was kind of almost a
little bit laughable that they have somebody coming and here
are these two arguing about, you know, why did it
happen and who messed up? I mean the woman saying
they're dying and she would be dead, and but um,
(37:01):
you know, they kind of make light of that a
little bit. Or you know, the guy who had the
barbed wires and him or the wires that he fell
on the post, you know, I mean that's so I
don't know, you know, it is true when she came
in Kalas specifically with the chainsaw, I thought there's no
way this woman would be alive. It was my immediate
first thought. Um, but it's interesting on shows like this
(37:24):
that have high drama, which patients they choose to keep
alive in these sitting roads, right like, and maybe it was,
you know, just from an entertainment standpoint, it's because they
wanted to get to the reveal that she was having
an affair with his assistant the whole time. Yeah, and
and it would it all leads that kind of stuff, like,
you know, the most interesting thing was probably the two women,
(37:46):
um Arizona and the other reconstructive surgeon. I mean, they
focus on that you know, affair, and I think and
then that episode, right, they end up getting together, and
so they focus on a lot of stuff like that.
And I mean, I mean that stuff just does not
go on and very often and that I know, not
that I've ever seen, You're like, that has not been
my experience. So, um, you know, I have to ask
(38:10):
because you know, Dr Boswell, like you mentioned, is visiting
Seattle Grace specifically, Um, you know, because of this and
encounter with um an Ensephala seal Um. You know that
is in this you know, newborn baby and so how
often have you kind of encountered these in your career
(38:32):
or when was the first time that you came across one.
So in residency, I mean they're very rare. I mean
the only time I ever see him, honestly has been
in residency because these kind of cases get referred to
the big centers that specifically do these type of cases.
So I think we had two children during my seven years.
They're they're so rare. And one of them there's different types.
(38:55):
So this child had one coming off the front of
its head, right, called the front on nasal. Usually those
are survival um. A lot of times they don't even
have brain tissue and you can repair them. The ones
that occur in the back of the head are more common,
but those are more lethal in most kids. It's like
a survival right. One of the kids that we had,
there were too many important structures, because you know, the
(39:16):
brain comes out of the skull. Like you said, usually
most of that brain that's outside of the skull is
nonfunctioning brain, so you can resect it and take it away,
but often there's important parts of the brain that come
out of the skull, and if some of those important structures,
including important veins or arteries, are there, often you can't
operate on them without without killing someone. So some some
(39:39):
of them are inoperable, you can't operate on them. Um.
And then one that we had was another one off
the back of the head, and that one really had
minimal nonfunctional brain tissue, and so we were able to UM,
you know, open the scalp, take the nonfunctioning tissue out,
and close things up in that child did Okay. So
it really depends on what type of structures are in
(40:00):
that part that's coming out of the brain. Are they
Are they important structures that you can actually operate on
or get back inside? Um? How big is it? The
size matters a lot, UM, but the ones from the front,
the one that this child has, looks like the type
that is more treatable and has a better outcome. Okay,
that's interesting, and so UM you mentioned that this is rare,
(40:22):
which is is wild that you've got multiple cases of
it in residency. I'm like, wow, UM, But apart from
this type of case, you know kind of what has been, um,
one of the most intriguing neuro surgery cases that you've
had thus far in your career. So early on in
my career did a lot of pediatric brain tumors, and
(40:42):
you know, those are those are tough cases. And and
any pediatrics is a little bit different because you have
to really tone your interaction with appearance is different than
talking to an adult. But I think one of my
most interesting cases in my mind that jumps out at
me was maybe a mid thirty year old woman who
came men to the hospital when I was on call,
and she came in paralyzed on one side of her body,
(41:04):
which was occurring over the course of days, and she
was becoming very sleepy, and her family was there, and
you know, she interacted with me a little bit, but
she was slipping into a coman. You know, I got
an number. I have her brain, and she had a
very large brain tumor pushing on her brain, pushing her
brain to the other side, and and she was going
to definitely die in the next couple of days just
because of the mount of swelling in the size of
(41:25):
the tumor. And so I had, you know, I sat
down with her family, and she's young, and you know,
I said, she really needs surgery or she's not going
to survive. But I said, there's no guarantee. I can
tell you a d percent how well she'll do, And
I said, it does look like a malignant tumor, because
by Mr I criteria, it had every every marking of
a malignant brain tumor. That she would not survive very long.
(41:47):
So I had taken her to surgery the next day.
She came in that night and I took her a
surgeon next day, and it was a very large brain tumor.
But to my surprise, you know, it had nice capsule
to it and nice margins that came out really nice.
Everything went very smooth, and I still was worried what
was going to be the pathology of the tumor. But boy,
I'll tell you she she woke up the next day,
(42:07):
got her strength back. I mean within two to three
days she was completely back to normal. And the blessing
for her is that turned out to be a benign
pylocitic astros sitoma, which is a benign brain tumor, and
if you were sect the whole thing, it's secure. And
she did wonderfully and never had her occurrence. So that's
one of the cases where I I really told the
family wrong information because I really thought it was a
(42:27):
malignant tumor. I mean, I would have bet my bottom
dollar on it and I was completely wrong, and um
and she did wonderfully. So that's probably one of the
I have so many cases I can tell you about,
but that's one that really stands out. That was really
a wonderful case of a woman who really wouldn't have
survived another couple of days and and and was normal.
Oh my gosh, well one, I'm so glad that like
(42:48):
she went in and was seen when she did you
know that she didn't because no, she's lucky that she
came in. Ye. Yes, sometimes people wait and they're thinking, oh,
especially in the instance when you're very hired, Well, she
could just you know, she could just go to sleep
and never wake up. Right, Oh my goodness. Well, I mean,
thank goodness. And I hope, I know, hope that she
is still doing well today, because that is that is
(43:11):
remarkable for sure. Um. So, in this specific patient case
on the show, this is maybe Tyler. And obviously you
know Dr Boswell is here to perform kind of this
complex cranio facial procedure with Tyler. So, um, you had
mentioned that, you know, in the beginning of your career
you worked on a lot of pediatric brain tumors. Um
(43:34):
and you said, you know, it's a it's very different
in talking to their parents. But I do have a question.
You know, in those patients that are verbal, you know,
kind of like old enough to to speak, how do
you manage that dynamic and relationship with those young young
pediatric patients and trying to like kind of help them
(43:54):
get comfortable with what's about to happen, you know. So
I think you know in a young pdft A patient
someone you know, child who's three, four or five years old, Um,
you really can't explain it to them. So you you
have to just you really talk to the parents and
explain to the parents. And I don't I don't really
A lot of doctors will sugarcoat things and say, you know,
(44:14):
everything's gonna be okay. I hear that all the time
from people that talk to the patients, and you shouldn't
do that. I mean, I'm very honest with the patients
and I tell them the severity. And you know, some
of these tumors, they're gonna die if they don't have
out and most of them and pediatric tumors are malignant,
so their cancer and you can't cure it. You can
only temporarily make them better. But you have to talk
to the parents and let the parents really know what
(44:35):
they're up against, and you know, the child, when you
examine the child, you come down to their level and
try to talk to them at their level the best
you can. But often I'll let the parents help explain
to you know, the parents will say, you know, you're
gonna need to go to surgery tomorrow, and they might
tell them what the surgery is. You know, they're gonna
shave some of your hair, and but you know how
much they really understand that. It's hard to know. Now,
(44:56):
if you have a ten or twelve year old right
with who has us a magical blast thelma, which is
a willionatet brain tumor um, you know, I can talk
to those kids and I tell them, you have, you know,
a little growth in your brain and and it's going
to hurt you and and so we need to take
it out. And I'll explain the surgery to them in
very simple terms, and if the parents are there, I'll
have the parents help me because maybe they know better
(45:18):
how to say that to them. And and that's how
you have to do it, I mean, is you have
to come down to their level and use the parents
as a tool to help them understand, you know, But
a lot of times the you know, the child is
never gonna understand. It's just beyond what they can they
can cope or understand. Yeah, So then how do you
take care of yourself and your own mental health? I
(45:40):
don't know. You learn through the years to just internalize
things to some extent. I mean, obviously you can't let
everything affect you. I mean, you have to be empathetic,
but yet you can't let it bring you down to
that level, right, So, I mean you have to be
personal with the people and the families, but you can't
take it personally and internalize it, you know. I don't
know how else to describe it. Um it's just I
(46:01):
think it's almost like a learned It's like a learned thing.
I hate to say it, but you just learn when
to turn it on and off. I guess, you know,
And then you know. For me, I mean, especially like
after my son died, I mean, I'm trying to stay healthy.
I got into exercising, I ran a couple of marathons,
and then I had a half iron Man and then
a full iron Man, and and um our family in general,
(46:22):
my wife and kids. We all try to stay healthy.
We eat healthy, and I think that helps. I used
to meditate a little bit. I gave it up, but
it was good. I mean, it just takes time. You know,
everything takes time, isn't that the truth? Everything takes out.
It clears your mind. Just Yeah, if you just close
your eyes for tenants and just think of nothing, it
really helps, I think. Yeah. UM, so you mentioned in
most of these cases UM, depending on where you know,
(46:45):
where it's located, the infants don't survive um or they
are often still born. So I did find a case
from twenty nineteen UM of a baby that survived. His
name is baby Lucas he UM. You know, I was
living in New Jersey. He actually Lee was the fourth
child of this family, and his mother, Maria, you know,
(47:06):
just wasn't entirely sure. Once she kind of received the diagnosis,
her O B g U I N actually you know,
recommended that she get an abortion, but that's not what
she wanted to do. She wanted to carry the baby
to full term, which she did, and so after he
was born. It was four days after he was born,
(47:26):
you know, they decided that they were going to UM.
You know, kind of do a procedure um and and
see if if he could survive. And so at the
time of this particular article, um, he was celebrating his
seventh month birthday, so he had he had become seven
months old, um, and that was in twenty nineteen, so
(47:47):
you know, it's twenty two now, and so you know,
it's very very interesting to kind of have these cases
on hand because you know, the doctor that performed the
surgery basedly said that like you know, everything else about
Lucas was a percent healthy, right, like, just apart from
this UM. And so I think that that is another
(48:10):
determining factor as to why his mother, Maria wanted, you know,
to to just you know, and which is true because
so many of these kids have associated other congenital anomalies
of different parts of their body. So that probably makes
a big difference, right, um. And so you know, while
she made those plans, you know, the end of life
plans just in case, um, she didn't have to to
(48:31):
use them. So you know, UM, that is a miracle
case in my eyes. So you know, kind of when
it comes to complex cases like these, generally, like what
is your approach, you know, kind of where do you
you start, I mean, do you operate on somebody or not?
How do you determine that? Right? Yeah, so I think
a lot of it is the first thing you have
to do is look at you know, just the mundanees.
(48:53):
What size is it and what structures are involved and
where is it located. Again, the kid in the episode,
I believe you know his one is up front here.
And when I heard her talk, she said it only
involved Maninji's, which is good, meaning there was They contradicted
themselves in this show. They said it only had Meninji's
in it, which is a covering of the brain and
spinal fluid, But then later they said something about having
(49:16):
encephalo seal with brain tissue in it. So you know,
if there's no brain tissue in it, which some of
these are just maninga seals, they don't have any brain tissue,
you can easily close those and there's no problems for
the child. If there's brain tissue involved, then it gets
a little trickier and the outcomes not as good. But
with these frontal ones there's a very high survivability. You
know that child has a good chance of surviving the
(49:38):
rest of his life. If it's repaired. Um. I don't
know specifically what the child had that you spoke of,
but um, it also depends, like you said, how many
other congenital anomalies is that does the child have. They
could have congenital anomalies of the heart and the blood vessels,
and the they can have congenital of the internal organs.
So it depends how many congenital anomalies the child has.
(50:00):
Would I would take into consideration, is it worth operating?
Is the life expectancy in quality life going to be
there if we do this surgery? And then also it's
like we said, how much brain and how much important
brain is out of the skull, and are there important
structures like you know, crucial veins that you that you
can't resect without you know, killing the child. So all
(50:20):
that has to be taken into consideration. So really these
are done on an individual case by case basis to
decide and then in the end you always have to
talk to the family, just like I talked the patients.
I mean, you can recommend surgery UM strongly, and and
a family may say, you know, I don't want my
child to have that done. I just don't want the
life it's going to have potentially and I'd rather not
(50:42):
do anything. And so you always have to respect, you know,
the family has the final wish, the final saying all this. Yeah. Yeah,
So for someone watching you know, Grey's anatomy. As a
specialist in this field, did you find this to be realistic?
I know where you're leaning, Um, so you know, well,
you know, I mean, so there's a couple, you know,
being chained, you know, cut in half of the chainsaw.
(51:04):
I mean that that person wouldn't probably not made it
to the hospital or um, you know, when the guy
had the barbed wires and them or whatever they the
spikes in them, it's so funny to watch, you know,
he's they're getting ready to cut these things and he's
still awaken the operating room on his side, and the
anesthesiologist hasn't even put a breathing tube and yet and
I can tell you anestsologists will never ever intibate anybody
(51:27):
on their side. I mean, you know, you'd be lying
on your back and put the sleep before they even
start the procedure. So a lot of that stuff is
just kind of so unrealistic. And you know, residents run
around doing m RIS and you know, we have you know,
there's radiology texts that do m rise and there's so
they always have the residents and the doctors doing all
(51:47):
these things that we wouldn't do, you know, I mean
you don't. You don't do everything, all right, We're very
specialized in what we do. So I get a kick
out of how everybody does everything. Or um, they were
having that storm coming, you know, and it was any how,
all the doctors were meeting and they had all the doctors,
all the staff. That never happens. I we never have
huge conglomerate meetings where all the doctors. I mean, we
(52:09):
barely see each other. You know, you're you're in the hospital,
you see your patients, you go to your operating room,
you operate. You might see somebody you know in the
in the lounge between cases. But it's not like everybody
hangs around everybody all the time. You know, let's just
they just in the drama. I mean the drama. It's
like so much every two minutes or something a family
fighting or a you know, surgeon screaming at another surgeon.
(52:31):
I mean that doesn't happen. Well, it makes for good
it makes for good TV. Yes, yes, listen, my my
last question really is what do you want for the
future of neurosurgery or what do you think is the
under surgery. Everybody focuses on technology and you know, minimally
invasive and neurallink. But what I really think needs to
be done, honestly, is when when a patient comes in
(52:54):
to see you for surgery, you have a limited amount
of time to speak to them. And and no matter
how much time I try to spend explaining surgery to
them and reviewing the films, and they're nodding their head, yes,
I understand, they really don't retain all that information. So,
you know, patients before surgery, every surgeon has this complaint.
They might not remember a lot of what you said
in the office. Is it because you went over a
(53:15):
lot of stuff they're nervous or we're talking about surgery.
They might be thinking about what am I going to
do about my job, my family, my dogs, you know,
who's gonna take care of them? So they don't retain
a lot of information. So so what I would like
to change is so patients can become much more educated
and understand what their surgeons are telling them, so they
can fully understand what they're getting into and you know,
(53:37):
like for my patients, I started making videos for them
to um have this information at home. And so what
I do is I say, you come in for her
need to disk in your back, or you have spinal stenosis,
narring and the spinal canal and you need surgery. I
have a video that corresponds to that condition. So I
explain what their their condition is in the video, use
an example m r I to kind of review the
(53:59):
m R I again so they can kind of see
an MRI I that's similar to their's again. And then
I explained the whole surgery in detail, just like I
did in the office, and go into more detail. And
then I spend a lot of time reviewing the aftercare.
How do you change your dressings, what do you need
to do, what do you need to look out for.
In that way, when they go home, I text them
the video. They can watch that video as many times
(54:19):
as they want. They can anywhere in the country of
the world. They can watch this video, learn what they're
family members having done, meet me because they didn't get
a chance to meet me, and just feel everybody can
feel more comfortable about what was said and what's what's
recommended and what's being done. So I wish there was
more of that because a lot of patients just I
think they agree to surgery because the surgeon recommends it,
(54:39):
but they don't really understand it. Um. I've had patients
come in for a second opinions to me and I'll
ask them, well, what did they say they're going to do?
And she's why, I don't really know. They were just
going to operate on my neck. I mean, is that
how you want to go into surgery and not understand
what you're having done? So that's what I would change. Well,
I love it because I think that its to your point,
not only per provides the patient with a deeper level
(55:03):
of comfort, but it also is so innovative in the
sense that, like, all they have to do is download
and save that video and they can look at it
as many times as they need to in order to
truly comprehend. And I wish, I do wish more providers
would do that because I do think well, they you know,
they have done surveys, a lot of surveys to see
how people like and they just love with the patients
(55:23):
and the families and they watch on an average three
to five times and it helps them become more comfortable
because they can sit down and relax now and listen
to this and really meet me and understand why we're
recommending surgery and what he's having done. Yea. And especially
in a case like this where you know, twenty four
hours is not a long time. Um, you know to
be able to kind of sit there and digest the
(55:44):
fact that you're having surgery, so you need kind of
something extra right in order to kind of ease your
mind and and you know, kind of prepare because it
it comes very quickly. Um, in a turnaround and look
like that in that particular case and patient. Um, but
thank you so much for joining the show. I had
a wonderful time. UM. And is there anything else before
(56:08):
you know, we we leave that you want to share
about your work or your platform on TikTok and how
you know you're trying to get people to learn and
and and I think, yeah, what I'd like to do
what I'm trying to do with TikTok's I'm trying to
build a platform, so you know, obviously if you can
get enough views, you can actually when they talk about influencers,
I don't want to influence people for egotistical reasons. I
(56:30):
want to influence people for good things. Like my son.
I wrote a book about. It's called The Night He Died.
And um, it's a very moving, powerful book. It's done
very well on Amazon. But I mean you'll cry in
the first two chapters, but it details I wrote it.
I set up every night after my son died for
like a month, I couldn't sleep, and I just wrote
this and it just came out of me. And I
wrote this book. And it's about exactly what happened and
(56:53):
what happened when he want the party and how he
got in that car accident and all the aftermath and
and my wife and I picking out the casket and
it's closed, the barrier and all the things you never
want to think about doing, and then and then talking about,
you know, my tragedies in my life, and then it
just comes to I try to bring it to a good,
uplifting end. But um, the TikTok, the TikTok platform. I mean,
what we're trying to do is we want to inform
(57:15):
people about nursery, but eventually maybe to make awareness about
you know, um, drunk driving. You know. We started uh
something called Brian matters, which is an awareness about drunk
driving because my son died at drunk time. So you
can use platforms like this for different things. I'd like
to use it for healthy living, right to to get
people to eat better and be healthier, and and uh,
(57:37):
it's a platform to you know, to promote using ubers
and stuff and and not for kids to drunk drive.
So I guess that's the only thing I would put
a plug in for that. As you know, TikTok has
much more use than just making videos of people dancing.
I guess you know, well well said, and you know
I cannot wait to read your book. Just thank you
(57:58):
so much for sharing that and for sharing your story. Uh,
and for coming on to just lend your expertise to
such you know, kind of incredible and life altering, life
changing and miraculous cases. I mean, I think I think
we did. We did touch on a lot, So I
just your time so much, And just thank you for
joining On Call with KB Well, thanks for having me.
(58:19):
I really appreciate it was fun. Thank you everyone for
tuning in to the season one finale of On Call
with KP. I am absolutely thrilled about what we were
able to accomplish with this show. Thank you so much
to my illustrious guests and superbans and experts just for
(58:41):
their time, bringing their love and all of their knowledge,
either whether it be for Gray's Anatomy as fans or
just being experts in their respective fields. I had a
fabulous time creating this first season, and so please stay
tuned to social media so we can reveal when upcoming
seasons will drop. So for now, please subscribe BINGE listen,
(59:05):
tell all of your family and friends. We want to
keep On Call with KP growing until season two launches.
Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, listen to On
Call with k B on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.