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October 6, 2022 50 mins

On this episode of On-Call with Kay-B, your host Kay-B is joined by Superfan, Lauren Warren (@iamlaurenp) and real-life surgeon and former GREY'S ANATOMY medical consultant, Dr. Hope (@htjacks) to talk about the season 10 finale "Fear (of the Unknown). This is Sandra Oh's final GREY'S appearance as the beloved and iconic character "Dr. Cristina Yang."
Listen as Kay-B and Lauren debate if this farewell episode did Sandra Oh's character any justice. Together they also discuss what the real love story of the series is and explain why Dr. Yang will always be hailed as a pioneer onscreen.
Later, Kay-B chats with Dr. Hope about being on set for Sandra Oh's final scenes. They also discuss a true case of groundbreaking 3D organ printing just like the one highlighted in GREY'S, breakdown how often the medical consultants use blinded patient experiences in their storytelling, and so much more!
On-Call with Kay-B is an iHeart production with lead editing by Randie Chapman of Wordie Productions (@wordieproductions on IG). Please follow Executive Producer & Host, Kay-B, on Instagram & Twitter @TheLadyKayB.

For more information about the case highlighted in this episode, read it here: http://www.clinicsinsurgery.com/abstract.php?aid=7728

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the inaugural episode of On Call with KB.
I am your host, KB, and I am thrilled that
you are joining this journey with me. For those of
you who may not know, On Call with KB is
the show where I take the wildest episodes of your
favorite medical dramas and debunk whether or not they are

(00:34):
scientifically and medically accurate alongside some super fans and experts.
This season, I am diving into the iconic Grey's Anatomy,
and for this episode, I have not only someone who
is a brilliant surgeon, but also was the medical consultant
on the show herself. Her name is doctor Hope and

(00:58):
she is so fabulous. I can't wait for you to
hear our segment. But I just wanted to give a
shout out to her late mother, Happy heavenly birthday. You
raised a fantastic and wonderful and so stellar woman and
I can't wait for you to continue to see what
she's doing because she's doing some incredible, incredible work. But

(01:20):
before I dive into my medical research with Dr Hope,
I have super fan Lauren on the show. And Lauren
and I have been friends for a very long time.
She was an Adjec Gray stand and the absolute perfect
person to bring on and chat all things of Sandra
Oh's character, Dr Christina Yang and her very epic and

(01:43):
iconic final episode of Grey's Anatomy. So stay tuned. In
this episode of On Call with KB, we are diving
into Grey's Anatomy Season ten, episode twenty four. It's the

(02:06):
season finale entitled Fear of the Unknown and it is
the two hundred and twentieth overall episode. Baby they was working.
So first off, Christina is on her way out. Our
girl said at Peace, she's got to go. She is
moving to Switzerland. She's she's going to Zurich. And from

(02:27):
that point forward, the day just escalates. An emergency is
coming in an extreme emergency. Then elsewhere we have the
introduction of Dr Maggie Pierce, who is there to take
over for Dr Christina Yang. She's having a tough day.
Our girl really just wants to kind of you know,
lead and stride, but Dr Yang is is not letting

(02:48):
her have it in the most positive of ways. Uh,
and Christina is pretty much gallivanting. She has one final
groundbreaking procedure kind of in the wings waiting for her,
and then it is time for her to kind of
say her goodbyes. Of course, there are a few surprises.
How she treats Alex is one of them. You know.
Her being kind to Alex and giving him her shares

(03:12):
not something that we expected. Uh So, yeah, we are
going to dive into all of these things and more.
So let me just introduce you to my friend, my colleague, Lauren,
who is joining me. You know, we started together at
an outlet that shall go unnamed, but we made it
through and a beautiful and bright sister who has ensued

(03:34):
she is a fantastic podcaster, journalist, screen writer, baker um
and friend. So thanks Lauren for joining. Well, one, thank
you for having me to thank you so much for
that incredibly kind introduction. And three, yes we shall kip key,
we shall talk. And I'm so just thank you so

(03:57):
much for having me on to talk about Grace. Yes, yeah, okay,
so we're kicking it off chatting about one of the
most iconic episodes. It was, in fact, one of the
hardest exits I had to endure on Gray's Anatomy. It's
when Dr Christina Yang left. So I mean, like truly truly,

(04:20):
I thought when I watched this episode initially many many
moons ago, because I am a loyal fan who has
been here since the beginning. Um, I thought I would
weep more. Uh, and we're gonna get into it because
I didn't cry then and when I rewatched it, I
still didn't cry. And we can talk about that. But
my first question to you, Lauren is when did you

(04:41):
first fall in love with Gray's Anatomy? Like what was
your gateway drug into the show? Okay, so before Gray's,
Thursday nights for me were spent at County General watching
e Er Yes, and so when Grays was announced, the
er was kind of in its last few seasons. I
think they overlap for maybe three or four seasons, um,

(05:03):
and so I thought, well, I like the medical Thursday
night commitment that I already had, I'm just going to
give it a shot. Um. So I started watching Gray's
and I was pretty religious with it every Thursday for
the first couple of years. And then I started moving around.
Then I was in a different continent and so I
got hard to keep up. So um, after a while,

(05:26):
I just started catching up, like multiple seasons at a time,
but I caught up. Okay, Okay, listen, I love to
hear like, listen, you started off strong, then life happened,
as it does when you're an adult, and then you
find your way back. I will say Gray's actually started
my sophomore year of college while I was in the

(05:47):
throes of studying for my degree in biology and my
minor in chemistry. So it was right up my alley
because apparently I was not getting enough science, you know,
in my everyday life Monday through Friday, I still was
like I need more, I desire more. And a lot
of that came from the fact that like, I love TV,

(06:08):
I love science, I love analyzing. E er was my
gateway drug to medical TV shows period, right, And so
Gray's Anatomy was roundbreaking and its own right being helmed
by Shanda Rhimes, you know, a black woman crafting this idea,
coming up with it, having so many iconic black actors too,

(06:28):
and and really profound roles, and being able to see
ourselves represented in that way. Uh. You know, it's another
one of the many reasons why I fell in love
with the show. But absolutely this episode, Christina Yang is
getting her quote unquote big and quote unquote great center off.
So I'm gonna start by asking you what was your

(06:49):
favorite scene this episode? And do you really think that
Christina Yang the Christina Yang. I mean, she has some
of the best one liners in the series. She was
one of the few times we saw women's surgeons and
and women period in the medical field choose themselves and
choose their careers over their partners, like we we got

(07:12):
to see her do that. So do you feel like
for a character who really kind of shipped the ground
of what we knew women doctors to be on screen
and maybe even in our personal lives, do you think
that she got the send off she deserved or did
she need more? You know? Um, I've been struggling with
this and I'm going to say yes and no. Um.

(07:35):
Christina like she came in and she let it be
known she's not like the other doctors. She's here for
one reason to dominate and to do her job and
to do it well and everything else is just noise,
right um. And this episode kind of started the same way.
She was in a tizzy about last minute prep for
her departure and there was all this other stuff going on,

(07:58):
and plus she had to compete with the catastrophe at
the mall and all of this other stuff going on.
So you know, as a fan, of course, you want
the focus to be on Christina, but also it's going
it's showing how life will go on even without her,
So all these events happened around her, even when she's
not there. But she's just such a hurricane and just

(08:21):
such a powerful force. You kind of we didn't need
to see her in every episode, but I feel like
she could have used a little more screen time. It's
a little more. Listen, I'm not going to disagree because
quite frankly, I'm gonna say she deserved a lot more
screen time. Um, you know, for me, she is actually
one of my top three favorite characters in the series overall,

(08:44):
and it's very very hard to say goodbye to such
a profound character like her. Yeah, I think it was
a heavy feat trying to say goodbye to her in
a season finale. I almost kind of wish that what
they would have done was given her season premiere and off,
just because I find that with season finalees, you're trying

(09:06):
to wrap up too many storylines at once for that
season and it just doesn't allow enough time. Oh yeah, yeah,
or you know, maybe even mid season, right, something something
that shakes it up. Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, Like
seasons eight, nine, and ten of Grades ended on these
really big catastrophes a shooter, rainstorm, a flood, uh plane crash.

(09:30):
All of these things are pretty important on their own,
but then you pair that with Christina's departure, and it
really feels like she got short changed and literally lost
in the fallout of the explosion at them all no
one pcent. What I was hoping to see was more
of the most important relationship on the show, and that's
the one between you know, Meredith and Christina, Because obviously,

(09:50):
while each of them have large romantic loves that come
in and out of their lives on the show and
and and out of their beds, um is kind of
their love and their friendship and their sisterhood that truly
is the lifeline of the show and is the lifeline
of these two characters. Because my favorite scene, um, you
know is actually when they get to dance it out.

(10:13):
I think that that's a great nod and throwback to
their relationship, but I don't think they really truly have
enough time to say goodbye. And on one hand, it
seems frustrating, but on the other it is kind of
in line with who Christina is. She doesn't really do
I love You's right, she doesn't really do grand gestures.
She does kind of the ins and outs and day
to days, and she's a solid human being. You know

(10:34):
that you could rely on her, but she's not one
to truly wear her emotions on her sleeve very often.
And so you know, I didn't expect to get that,
but I did want some finality, and so it is.
It is really interesting because there is a line in
the episode that m Christina actually says to Meredith where

(10:59):
she says, I just have to finish something, like nothing
feels finished. And when she says that, I kind of
feel like they put that in there ironically. You know,
she's like, George is dead and Izzy has gone and
I don't feel like anything is finished. And I was thinking, girl,
I'll feel like your story is finished. Like that's actually
kind of like felt watching it, Like yes, But see,

(11:19):
she's such a perfectionist. That's stuck with me because no
matter what she does, no matter how much she accomplishes,
she will never feel like she actually finished overachiever in
her So she could have stayed and done a million
surgeries and if she were to leave or to retire,
she would still say, I don't feel like I've done anything,
and so I I get that. And then sometimes I'm

(11:41):
a military brat. I've moved lots of times, and sometimes
when you're changing major events in your life, you're changing
the country you live in, where you're working, and if
you do it all at once, sometimes those moves are
just so chaotic that you don't have time to wrap
things up with the bow. So you make plans to
see friends and it doesn't happen because you've got something
else that pops up. So watching them sort of dance

(12:03):
around each other, and like Meredith trying to get Christina
out of the hospital, felt very familiar, and actually that
felt quite realistic to me, like they didn't have the
chance to go down the checklist of things you do
with your friends before you relocate right um, and not
just because there was a major catastrophe in the hospital
and in the city. It's just life. Life happens, and

(12:24):
sometimes it's just like that. And I think my favorite
scene was when she was talking to careb in the
operating room, and it's as close as you're going to
get of a compliment from her and she told him,
you're good, but you're not as good as me, which
she it's like, you're You're really not going to get

(12:45):
a lot more from her, except he did, and then
she followed that up with giving him her shares in
the hospital, and I thought that that's a boss move
for Christina. That's Christina's way of saying I love you.
She'll never say those words, but that's her way of
expressing love, appreciation, and affection. You know what. I think

(13:06):
that that is very true. I mean, it's interesting because
to parallel, Meredith was like, what do you need and
I love you and she's like, okay, I love you,
and then Christina starts smiling like yes, Like I'm not
going to be the one to say it to you,
but if you tell me, then yes, I will always
take the I love yous in the compliments. And you know,
but I think that you're right, you know, her telling

(13:27):
Corred that these two are really her people, and quite frankly,
they're the only ones left in their in their residents class,
so you know, these are her people, these are her
best friends, and so um, I get it to one degree,
but on the other hand, I kind of felt like
her relationship with Owen got more of a goodbye then
hers with Meredith. I'm sorry, it felt like you know,

(13:47):
with Owen they woke up together and so she's like, oh,
I need to leave two weeks early, which is like
kind of Pete Christina but also wild girl actually talking
about you and go to Switzerland today, Like what is
the truth like of two weeks? You have packing, you
have moving, you have your apartment like which also side
note the way Shane just co wit on the spot.
I was like, I'm going with her, Shane, what about

(14:08):
your apartment, Shane? What about your visa? Shane? Like listen,
I love Shane. Was was the m v P of
the episode. I'm sorry, like you okay, I would say
second secondary m v P, because yes, sometimes you're just like, yeah,
I'm not going to spend all this money on an
education for my best teacher to leave. No, We're gonna
add all the money up and I'm just gonna go

(14:29):
over there. I said, no, wait a minute, Shane. Now
the real adult in me was like, you need to
call your landlord. You need a visa for this, Like
you need to actually get some things in order also
show you want to tell your family, because not you're
moving just you know, to you're gonna let your family
know that, like, oh, I'm gonna go to Switzerland for
you know, an indefinite amount of time, like what what

(14:52):
is the truchette? But anyway, I thought that was hilarious.
Back to Owen, you know, like they've already had their
differences because of works. Prisina didn't want kids, right, Owen
desperately wanted kids. They knew it wasn't gonna work. They
knew that they were going to break up. But I
even felt like even after the morning, when I guess
he's kind of settling into the idea that she's leaving
that day when it's time for her to leave, and

(15:15):
she disrupts him during this surgery and he's crying. I'm like, now, girl,
you know you cannot give this wave of a goodbye
from you know, the gallery. This man is crying, but
also need to operate on this spaceship. What is right?
I need my doctor focus, please, I really do. Patient
is cut open on the table. My man's is crying.

(15:36):
I said, right like, no, we you know, okay? So God,
oh what in Christina? In a way, I've always felt
like maybe Owen deserved better because that whole relationship was
just incredibly chaotic. I mean, listen, when you're working in
an environment like that, any most relationships are just based

(15:58):
on being together and stressful situations and vibes, lots of
vibes and lots of vibes, and that does not make
a solid foundation, especially for a relationship, especially for a marriage. Now,
they did have chemistry that was undeniable, but they just
couldn't align on the basics. God bless them. And the
way Christina is in and out of life in general,

(16:20):
like a Tasmanian devil, just was it was never going
to work. Christina said, listen, I know my truth, and
I don't allow anyone to stand in the way of
my truth and my hopes and my dreams and what
I want out of life. And she doesn't care who
she sacrifices in the wake of that storm that she creates,
which on one hand is it's really empowering to see

(16:43):
because she is very firm and who she is, and
and she needs a partner who you know, understands that.
But Owen had a lot of healing and life work
to be done from the trauma of his military service.
And he wasn't really doing that, Like he really wasn't
owning the responsibility of managing that healing at the time.

(17:04):
And so I also found that, like, you know, there
were times where she was kind of helping him carry
a load that didn't belong to her. So their relationship
just kind of it was never on equal footing from
the beginning. Sure there's chemistry, but like you want to
have sex with a lot of people when you only

(17:24):
see your coworkers, I mean, it's it's like it's like
the perfect storm. Almost. Oh, I spend twenty two hours
a day in this hospital, and like he's attractive, and
I technically don't have time to go on a date.
And that sounds like how she wound up with Preston too.
That's how she went right on equal footing because the
vibes and stressful situations twenty two hours a day, and

(17:46):
it was just like I kind of hate to say this,
but like in a lot of ways, the relationships on
Gray's Anatomy are built out of convenience, because it's just
the convenience of the fact that I have a high octane,
high stress life that no one outside of these walls
will understand except for you and Oh, I think I
want to have a family, but like my schedules chaotic,

(18:08):
but yours would be too. But maybe we could make
it work because we work in the same place, but
actors do, so it really is just kind of like, oh,
we're here, We're here, so you know, I agree, I
think Owen deserved best, But I also kind of felt like,
in a sense and a lot of ways in this
episode in particular, every single romantic relationship is out of

(18:29):
whack and you know, utter shambles. I'm like, it's funny
because I think that's by design of the show, right.
Like the show really, I think always tries to stress
the importance of Christina and Meredith, but I think in
this episode you see it more clearly because both of
their partnerships aren't have seemingly quote unquote dissolved. I'm not
gonna say her relationship with Derek has dissolved, but she

(18:52):
makes a very big choice, you know, Meredith makes a
very self centered self Yeah, of how she doesn't want
to leave and he's like, I just took this incredible
job in d C. But like, the more I watched
Meredith and Derek, I'm like, they're becoming one of my
least favorite relationships, one of my least favorite because he's

(19:13):
never respected her. And I'm glad she finally got to
that point. But what did it take for her to
get to that point? Her relationship with Christina? Right? But see,
it's that it's that unequal starting out on on equal footing,
and they never find the ledge that gets them on
the same footing. But I do think that perhaps Owen's
relationship with Christina opened him up to be a better partner,

(19:35):
or at least a more informed partner when Teddy came along, saying,
when Teddy came back, and you know what, I kind
of feel like a lot of that has to do
with their shared experiences, right, yes, because I'm not going
to spoil it for you because I don't know how
far you are. I'm caught up. I'm okay, I'm like
one season behind. I'm not gonna okay, well, I mean,

(19:55):
well no, because even last season, so you know, but
or shared experiences provide a common ground that works a
little bit better. Yes, that's a little bit more realistic,
and they are on equal footing right, Like it's not
student teacher, uh student uh? Resident Like they're they're they're

(20:17):
already starting off on somewhat equal ground, and it's a
bit more adult that way. So the way they comport
themselves is a bit more adult. M Yeah, I like that.
I like that, But goodness, the way Grace shakes things up.
I think for a season finale, this was good for
a send off for Yang. I wanted more for Yang,
but I think overall forces and finale, it's giving you

(20:38):
what you're used to write. Like, Um, I will say
I have also never really been a huge Jackson in
April fan Like, I don't mind them, but I also
would have preferred Jackson, I don't know, date someone different. Why. Yeah,
I often wanted him to be with other people like okay,

(20:59):
So God bless them for doing the whole opposite attract right,
I mean, you could not have picked a more opposite
partner for him in April Kutner. You really couldn't have. Literally, um,
and I know that a lot of times, what Grays
really loves to do is to like I can just
imagine the writer's room, like characters names on the board

(21:19):
and someone closing their eyes and pointing in two different directions,
and they'll say that's who we're going to pay up together.
I don't think it's like, but I feel like that's
what happened with Jackson in April, Like I really do
like it just seemed sort of out of the blue,
and well maybe not out of the blue. You could
kind of see it happening because of vibes in close proximity,

(21:40):
but it having any sort of longevity just never It
made me laugh a lot, and I don't think I
was supposed to find that funny, which you're like, is
this one that you're supposed to, you know, find endearing? Yeah,
because it never came across that way to me, to
be right, right, And for me, I always was kind

(22:01):
of distracted by them as a couple. So even in
this episode where they have like this kind of joyous
baby news, it's so interesting to be that they would
like have keptner have this one on one with Catherine. Well,
I'm like, girl, you know, Catherine don't like you. You
are not her first choice in any capacity, not her
second choice for a daughter a lot, not even her third.
Quite friendly, you would never make the list. So I

(22:23):
was just like, oh, I mean, I guess this story
is kind of relatable, but also child what UM, so yeah,
I think that the relationships this episode were interesting. Now,
I would be remiss if I did not talk about
uh into the introduction of Maggie, since Christina is leaving,
and that he dropping the bombshell that she is Ellis
Gray's biological daughter and she was adopted and not my

(22:46):
man literally just sitting there like this conversation are read
because he was buffering. Oh my god, he sat so
still I have never seen. Oh God, bless him. He
got hit with a ton of bricks, he really did.
And I felt sad because you know, it's obvious that

(23:09):
that chapter of his life is gone. And he did share,
you know, kind of love with Ellis even though they
were both married to other people. Um, but it's very
clear to me that he didn't know Ellis was pregnant,
and he was like and not your gay birth though,
what not? And that you said that maybe up for adoption.

(23:29):
And now you may say not one word, like, not
a word. But Ellis was always so Oh my god,
Ellis was always such like a chamber of secrets. She
always had fifty things going on and you may never
know one even with Meredith, with everyone around her, she
just she took compartmentalization to like a whole new like

(23:52):
c I A in this a agent level, and it
just complicated everyone else's life around her, everyone's life around her,
every single one. So you know, those are the fun moments,
the highlights. I do want to just mention the science
of it all. So clearly, Christina can't leave the hospital
without there being some like groundbreaking aspect I feel like

(24:14):
to her name and also like, let's just talk about
how like the doctors at Grace Sloan Memorial whatever the
new name maybe at this moment in time, because my
get where they were that where right at in the
city of Seattle where Ellis Gray made her mark. So

(24:34):
that's what I was saying. I was, um, you know
where the Avery Foundation has put all of their money
this facility UM is never not known for doing kind
of groundbreaking operations and wild things to their patients. Like actually,
in the highest of keys, I would never be a
patient there because like the little of things that happened

(24:57):
at that hospital and in the level of risk that
these doctors take would out consent. I feel like it's
just so wild to me. But this is my first
time that I can recall seeing three D printing of
organs on the small screen in this regard. So you know,
they're printing a heart, which is revolutionary in and of
itself in real life. But this is the first time

(25:17):
I ever saw it dissected, discussed, even you know, teased
in television. So how did you feel about it? I'm curious,
as someone who you know doesn't have a scientific background,
how did you feel about that personally as a scientist.
I thought we'd be further along now in real life
when it came to three D printing organs. I'm not

(25:38):
gonna lie, I'm like it is. I thought that this
would be kind of a regular occurrence, and when it
came to like transplant patients, you know, things wouldn't be
so challenging for transplant patients waiting on organs. Like I
thought we would really be in the think of it
right now, especially after I watched this episode. I said, oh, well,
honey is coming. I don't know that was season ten.

(25:58):
I was like, oh, chat, I's almost a full decade ago, Like,
it's really funny club, Yes, yes, yeah, here we are.
So how did you feel about it? I mean, you
said a couple of things that were funny to me, one. Yeah,
I would not want to be a patient transferred me
immediately because it's just too chaotic in this hospital. But
if there were anyone I would trust to do something

(26:20):
so groundbreaking, there would be one person, and that person
would be Christiniang because Christina was always a big thinker.
She was always I mean to say, outside the box.
I don't think it would fully encompass how big, how
just big she was, and she almost always felt like
she was too big for Seattle, for Seattle, Grace, Grace, Loan, whatever, um.

(26:43):
So for her to do something like that just feels appropriate.
And for that to happen during her her swan song,
I mean, that's how you send off a giant who
was larger than life. And it just really confirmed where
she was going was the right place for her and
where she really needed to be. And again, she could

(27:05):
do a million of those surgeries and she would still
feel like she had more work to do. But it's enough,
it's enough, Christina, just rest for a minute, sister, just
rest place. How the work is never done with women, Heney,
That's how we, I don't know a lot of us
fell that way about even the simplest subtests, like you know,
the work is ever done. We still gotta keep going.
But I think that you're right. I think that, like

(27:26):
she was such a pioneer in the cardiology and cardiothoracic
space on the show, that her leaving to go to
Europe to pioneer and become the director and kind of
take over this department and do the things that she
always dreamt of really showed one what a force she
was to how she always manifested that. I think that's

(27:48):
the thing I do appreciate about her character arc in
its entirety, and even what we see at the very
end is that when we first meet her at Seattle Grace,
she always said she was going to do this, do
you know what I mean? She always carried herself. She
always knew that. She always did that, and I appreciate that.
The final scene that we do get is her closing
the door and her name and her new title and

(28:12):
you know, seeing you know, the mountains in the background
in this beautiful landscape, but her really just being the
giant that she always claimed she would be, because she
always knew she would be. So when Christina Yang says
she's going to do something, She's going to do it,
and it's never it's never a question of if, it's when,
and she's got it planned. And I think that's another
reason why maybe I didn't mind her not having so

(28:35):
much screen time, because it's not really about her. It's
about the legacy she's leaving behind. You know, even in
how she was annoying Maggie to the nth degree, all
the tension she had with Maggie, it's that, it's that reputation.
It's that she's supposed to be gone, but yet she's

(28:56):
still looming large in this hospital because that's just who
she is. And that's what when you're a giant like that,
that's what happens. Even when you're gone, your name still
rings through the halls. Your legacy carries on. So that's
why I'm able to swallow a little less screen time
for her. But I do feel bad about how hard
of a time she gave Maggie. I mean, poor Maggie.

(29:18):
You know Dr Pierce who you know, it's like a
prodigal when it comes to medicine, and she was basically
like a teenager going to medical school and yeah, yeah,
it's just like, girl, you're disposable. I'm like, now, Yang
have some home training we got, we can do this.
Welcome our girl like this is your homegoing. Let her

(29:39):
homecoming be, you know, just a little bit nicer, honey.
I mean you have to make her a basket, but
you can at least be like, Okay, I respect you, you,
you prodigy, you brilliant black women taking over. Go ahead, girl,
you know, like we could have got a little something.
I said. Now you ain't going out like in true
Dang fashion, just being like whatever. They're going out the way.

(30:00):
She came in with an air of arrogance, but yes,
the brilliance to back it up. She can chat it,
but she can back it up with facts. And that's
one thing I've always loved. I love characters like that.
I especially love them when they're women. If you can
talk your talk and back it up with facts, walk
out their chest out, head high. And that's exactly how

(30:22):
Gang came in, and that's exactly how Yang went out. Yep,
I love to see it all right. So, lastly, you
said that Shane was the secondary m v P the
I don't know what that would be, the assistant MVP.
I guess, so Shane was the assistant m VP of
this episode. Then who's your m v P. Who's your
favorite hereter this episode, I gotta go with my girl.
I gotta go with Christina, and I'll tell you why,

(30:42):
because she I love consistency and a character, but also
when characters grow. I do remember season one, episode one
Christina's appearance. She left in a similar like Tasmanian devil
fashion as she arrived. But the growth in those ten
seasons was astronomical. I love how we got to see

(31:05):
just the fact that she had to be ushered out
of the hospital multiple times because she is just so stubborn,
the fact that she got to have one last dance
with her best friend Um, the fact that we got
to see her give as much of a compliment as
we've ever seen her give, the fact that we got
to see her say I love you, and her own

(31:27):
special way by giving those shares to Krev. She said
a lot without saying a lot, and then just sort
of left without the fanfare, and that I appreciate because
not every character has to go out with the bank.
And I love how she just sort of she she
seized upon that new life that she knew was meant
for her and loves it. You know what, I have

(31:50):
to agree, I'm gonna give it to my girl, Christina,
but as only because it felt like when she was
dancing with Merritage, when they were having their final dance off,
that she was really letting go of the Way of
Seattle and that for one final time. And it's in
that scene where it really felt like not just Christina,
but also Sandra Oh was letting go of Christina fully,

(32:13):
you know, like she was laying down this character. And
we all know Sandra Oh can act down and she
has done some incredible things for beyond. And we all
know that Christina Yang does some incredible things, you know,
in her quote unquote character afterlife. But it just felt
like the dance was the moment to say goodbye, and

(32:34):
that was truly it. So I adore Christina Yang. She
will always be in my top three favorite characters of
Grey's Anatomy Um that will remain till the end of time.
But I just want to thank you so so much
for taking the time to join me on the show.
I had a fabulous time. I love talking about all
the highlights from this episode. Such an incredible joy and

(32:58):
delight to have you on. And you'll have to come
sometimes I would love to thank you, thank you, thank
you so much, thank you. Today I have the incredible surgeon,
extraordinary and professor, Dr Hope Jackson. So welcome to on
call with KB. Hey, Happy Friday. Thank you so much

(33:21):
for having me, um. I really I love any opportunity
to talk about one of my absolute favorite shows, and
it was a show that I was fortunate enough to
have a personal connection with, So thank you for the opportunity.
Oh of course, I'm so excited. This too is one
of my favorite shows. I like to joke that I
might be the only person still watching it in real

(33:43):
time on Thursdays when it turns out. But Grey's Anatomy
has been my longest relationship thus far, and you know
I am okay with that. So the biggest draw, of
course in this in this episode is this is Dr
Christina Young's final on screen appearance before she jets away,

(34:05):
you know, to make history in Switzerland. So first, Dr Hope,
how did you get into medicine? And you know, I'm
curious because I'm like, somebody makes me a scientific consultant,
Like how does one become a medical consultant? Currently the
longest running medical drama on TV, Sure Um, since I

(34:26):
was a little kid, I kind of always wanted to
be a doctor because my pediatrician was just the greatest um,
and I kind of always talked about it and my mom,
you know, God rest her souls. She sacrificed kind of
so much for me to have the opportunities that that
ultimately got me to medical school. And UM, I'm kind
of dating myself here, but um, me going to medical

(34:49):
school actually coincided with when Gray's first debuted, Um, so
it was really an exciting time to kind of study medicine.
This was like in the first season of Grays and
Dr Bailey was actually the first black woman surgeon I'd
ever seen, uh, and not just on television. So during
medical school I kind of shifted my interest to surgery,

(35:10):
mainly because of a woman mentor uh and chusing surgery
was was just the best decision I could have ever made.
And to the second part of your question. While I
was in medical school, I was fortunate enough to hear
Dr Zoan Clack speak at an annual meeting for minority
medical students. And Dr Clark is a long time writer

(35:33):
and executive producer on Grays. And during that meeting or
that key note. She kind of talked about how Grays
allowed her to combine her love of writing and her
love of medicine, and I just felt like she was
speaking to me in the audience. So I kind of
mustered up the courage to go up to her and
ask for our contact information. Uh, and I actually reached

(35:54):
out immediately. And at that point, even though I hadn't
really decided I wanted to do surgery, Gray didn't really
know what to do with medical students at the time
who were interested in helping, so it wasn't the right time.
But about five years later, UM, I was in the
middle of my residency and I had a natural break
where we had dedicated research time. I wanted to do

(36:16):
research and something I was passionate about, so I said,
I want to do like medical consultant. I want to
help on medical shows. Um. And so I reached out
again to Dr Clark. I reminded her who I was
and told her I was a surgery resident and that
I thought I could help on the show. And Uh,
this time the timing was perfect, and within a month
of that initial email, I moved out to l A

(36:39):
and started working with the writers and with the medical
team on set, So I guess yeah, luck and persistence
with the help of some great timing made the made
the whole thing work out. Timing, timing of everything, and
perfect timing came along the way. I have to ask
just kind of at a high level so people understand
what is the research process like because in this specific episode,

(37:04):
Dr Yang, this is her her final time with her
final conduit patient who has hypoplastic left heart syndrome. They
did the three D printing. You know, this is it?
How does that even come about in the writer's room
and how closely do you have to work with the
writers to develop stories that are authentic and accurate but
also engaging because there's you know, we want to tug

(37:26):
at the heartstrings. That Great's right, That's right. No, I
mean it's a great question. I mean, you know, for
this particular story, and then of course for for all
the time that I work with Grays and and I'm
sure what their process is still now. I mean, it's
a whole team, it really is, kind of because ourselves
team medical, right, so when it comes to writing um
and then on set there's actually a whole team, a

(37:47):
medical team that is there to make the medicine actually
look real, so like make sure the I v s
and make sure the monitors work. So there's a whole
team there as well. But when it comes to actually,
you know, thinking about the medicine, when it comes to
the cases, a lot of times we're looking for medical
stories that are out there in the news, medical stories
that are in journals. We search medical journals um looking

(38:09):
for case reports. Really, the case reports are kind of
the most interesting things because they'll they'll actually sometimes tell
a story of what's happened with the patients. So it'say,
this patient presented with X, Y and Z, we took
them to the operating room, and this happened, and we
had to you know, improvise and do this. And so
sometimes there's a story already in a case report that
we can work into whatever emotional story we're telling with

(38:32):
the characters. But you know, for many of the cases,
we're talking to uh, particularly in this one, we're talking
to transplant surgeons, we're talking to the cardiac surgeons, just
to make sure we kind of have the technical beats
of what happens um and then once we have an
idea of what would actually happen to the patient, in
real life. We then try to merge that with what

(38:52):
the writers are looking for, and then more importantly, you know,
what is the actual emotional arc of the story and
how the medicine fits in. Okay, So when I was
watching this episode, I was researching some cases that could
have potentially had an impact, and there is one thing
that I saw from a cardiac team in Athens, Greece
that had been doing three D printing in complex heart

(39:13):
cases since and I know this episode aired in Were
there any cases that you recall that influenced this And also,
you know you did mention that you use some of
your own personal experiences while in residency to add to it.
So were any of those cases that you you know

(39:33):
presented ever used in any of the episodes over the
course of season nine or ten. That's a great question. Um, yeah,
I mean with your regards to the three D printing,
So that's a huge effort on so many levels, right,
because we actually wanted to see the heart right, the
three D printed heart. So we had to work with
a three D printing company to help our engineers to
make sure that we could get what they have. We

(39:55):
looked at case reports where they're doing this, and so
you know, getting a case report saying this has been done. Okay,
let's see if we can we can do that, and
then how do we bring it to life on screen
in a way that's engaging to the audience. But that's
always the key. How do we make it look cool,
how do we bring the viewer in UM. And then
in terms of an actual case where my experience got

(40:19):
incorporated UM in season nine actually I believe it was
the finale, one of the patients had a splenic injury
and they had to do usple next to me. Now,
this is one of the most common cases UM that
you might now see on a medical drama. But I
remember suggesting and it was based on a really hectic
case UM that I did as a resident where the

(40:42):
patient had a ruptured splenic artery aneurysm. And so, if
I'm remembering correctly, they incorporated that. It was at the
end of season nine, like twenty three or twenty four. Uh,
they incorporated that into the episode, and I just thought
that was so cool. And I remember, you know, helping
Dr Clak with the actual verbage and the writing of
that in the script, and I just I was on

(41:03):
cloud nine. This is like a top five experience is
great And I actually think I got to scrub in
on that episode. So if you see a little Dark Care,
little brown Skang girl in that episode as a scrub
tech with Bailey, actually that was me. I love that.
What a full circle moment, seeing as you know she
was the first surgeon that you love that. I was

(41:23):
kying actual tears, it was. It was really I love it.
I don't think people realize how much research goes into
things before they're actually approved for use. So I already knew,
you know, like watching in this episode and watching a
lot of episodes this season, because I'm glad you brought
up uh you know them showing the full three D
printed heart. Like three D printing of organs is something

(41:45):
that just interests me in general because I mean it
could open so many doors and just having um family
members who are currently waiting to be put on a
transplant list just to get new organs. I'm like, three
D printing, I want this to be the wave of
the future, truly, truly, you know that there's a lot
going on with three D printing, and um, I'm actually

(42:07):
doing a study on how three D printing is used
in an education, um, and so we're printing models of
the Anglo Canal for students to be able to learn
and and prove how they do when they're on their
surgery rotations. So three D printing is revolutionalized, not just
like what you're seeing in actual patients, but also like
how we're training our medical professionals. Three D printing has

(42:28):
really changed the game. So it's it's awesome. Yeah, you
know what. That is so much better than these bovine hearts. Like, yeah,
but you mentioned being able to scrub and being on
set and you were on set for this episode as well. Correct, Yes,
Oh my goodness. Okay, well you know what, I we

(42:50):
have bonded over our shared love of I'm gonna say
the best character on the show. Uh, Christina. I'm gonna
say she's the best character because a percent, she's everything.
So what was it working on this I mean, Sandra
O's final appearance had to be huge, uh, you know,

(43:11):
just even getting to be a part of of this,
the end of her like era and this journey. I
mean like she was on this show for ten seasons
and you know, has still done some incredible work post grays.
But what was it like and what type of type
of actor is she when it comes to you know,

(43:32):
kind of making sure because I always felt like Sandra
Oh's portrayal of Dr Yang was always so intentional in
the sense that like her movements when you're watching her,
like everything just seems like she worked really hard to
portray a surgeon that was intentional at every step and
that was thorough at every step. Yeah, no, I mean absolutely.

(43:55):
I mean Christine Christina Yang is uh is an absolutely
iconic character UM brought to life by the amazing Sandra Oh.
And you know, being able to work or see her
work up closely was amazing. You know, I agree with
you that the Christina Yang is always portrayed in a

(44:16):
very intentional way, and I think that's very much a
testament to the work ethic that Sandra put into the
character UM. And you know, when I was there for
the very what was her last episode, UM, you know,
just seeing her with her script and it's filled with
you know, a little um little post it notes and
tags and whatever notes that she has to herself and

(44:37):
you know, to see you know, her work ten years
into the game, ten years as Christina Yang, UM still
you know, doing what I can only assume is her
process for characters. Um, it was really inspiring and to me, UM,
I think that just her work ethic in general brought
realism to what is a lot of surgeons work ethics.

(44:59):
Like I, I could see that um in her and
I found it inspiring in my own right as as
a resident going through you know, hard times in residency.
So yeah, I mean, it was amazing to watch her work. Uh,
and it was it was just great to be there
on that particular for that particular episode. Oh my goodness,
I could only imagine because listen, I mean to me, man,

(45:22):
Christina Yang. You know, it was not only brilliant, but
she had kind of the heart in the spirit in
a lot of ways. Like I, she was brash, you know,
don't get me wrong, But that's why you appreciate her.
You you always knew where you used to, you know,
like you always knew what you were getting, and what
you were getting was world class, you know, hospital care
from her. You're definitely getting the best treatment, but you're

(45:43):
also getting honesty and you know you're never gonna get
alive from from Dr Yang, which I always always always appreciate.
I mean, that's why I thought her. They did such
a great job with her final episode because you got
a chance to see all of it. You get to
see her be brilliant um in the operating room one
last time. Um. You get to see her then kind

(46:05):
of close out, um, you know, her emotional journeys with
her greatest family, and then I thought it was really
important to kind of have the last image of her
be you know, her being brilliant um in Switzerland and
her being content um. You know, I thought that was important.
I know the writers wanted to showcase that, and for
me as a fan of the show, I thought that

(46:25):
was really important to see her whole, the whole spectrum
of Christina Yang. Yeah, and I do love that. Like
literally right before she leaves, she drops that word of
wisdom you know on Meredith and you know, like he's
not the sun you are, and she just leaves her.
We literally just leave her, like and there we go goodbye.

(46:46):
I was like in the spirit of Christina Yang just
giving some truth and then walking away truly and showing
her love in that way. So anything else she would
have done differently, you know, kind of in this episode,
anything that you would have expanded upon from a healthcare perspective.
And then I have to ask, you know, during your
tenure and working with a lot of different medical professionals,

(47:09):
even on this show, to provide the level of accuracy,
is there anything that you learned that you took away
you know, um and and currently used in your professional career. Um.
A great question. I don't think there's anything I would
have done differently in terms of the medicine. I mean,
it was such a I mean it's only an hour
of television and you have to have not only do

(47:30):
you need to wrap up the iconic Christina Yang, you
gotta give other people their stories and then lead into
the next season. So I think we had just enough
medical for the stories that the writers wanted to tell.
So I wouldn't have changed anything in that standpoint. Um,
I think I've definitely learned. I've learned so much, and
being a medical consultant, I think, Um, the main thing

(47:50):
is not just in my work as a consultant on
other shows, but I think I'm a better communicator with
my patients, just because I do think it's a is
a skill to take something as complex as as medicine
can be at times and distill it in a way
that's digestible, um, not just to the writers, but then
to the writers who can then transform it into something

(48:11):
that's put out and can reach someone emotionally. And so
for me, I was a resident when that when that
process started where I got exposed to that agrees, and
I think I just tried to incorporate that into my
everyday interactions with my patients, with the residents that I
teach UM and now you know, in my and my
other consulting jobs. So you know, I'm lucky enough to

(48:32):
have the privilege of getting to do this on actual patients,
getting to do medicine on actual patients, and then getting
to think about it in the world of make belief
as well. I love it. I love it well, you know.
Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom
and sharing some you know, behind the set secrets, but
also letting us dive into the medicine of it all too.

(48:52):
And you know, I heard you mentioned that you're consulting
on other projects, So any of them that you can
share other other a cool shows that you're currently working on,
because I may just need to have you back when
we do a different season of a different medical show.
I'm happy to look, I'm happy to come back at
any time, particularly to talk about Grays at anytime. I
also I consult for the residents, so I'm happy, which

(49:15):
is I'm happy to talk about that as well. I
don't have anything that I can share right now in
terms of the upcoming projects, but hopefully soon. Um but yeah, no,
thank you so much for having me and uh yeah
this was I love talking about this stuff, so I'm
happy to come back anytime. Well, thank you again so
much for chatting and coming on On Call with KB,
and I will definitely have you back. Dr Hope, thank

(49:37):
you so much, really, thank you again. Thank you so
much for listening to that brand new episode of On
Call with KP. Join us next week as we talked
to acclaimed director Julienne Robinson about Gray's Anatomy Season three,

(49:58):
episode fourteen, entitled Shin and Open and we dive into
the Woman with Toxic Blood. You don't want to miss it.
Listen to En Call with k B on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Host

Kay - B

Kay - B

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