Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome everyone to a brand new episode of On Call
with k b I am your host k Beep, and
we have a great segment today where we're giving you
all of the tea about season six, episode twenty two
of Gray's Anatomy called Shiny, Happy People with the vibrant
so fabulous I mean, an incredible baker, a dynamic writer,
(00:36):
and a fundraising guru. Kendall. Hello, thank you for having
me so excited. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to
chat with you about this because you know, we have
talked offline about Gray's and um, you know it's always
some foolery. But before we get into it, let's talk
about this episode because in this episode, this is a
(00:59):
huge and chip drama one in the sense that Meredith
and Christina are kind of beefing and it's over a man,
but not in the traditional sense. Listen, Meredith expects nothing
but top tier gold for her bestie Christina, and Owen
is not serving it up for her. She is weary
of Owen and Christina's relationship because she still believes that
(01:19):
Owen has feelings for Teddy and in the highest of
keys our girl, Meredith is not wrong. Now, um, when
it comes to her relationship with Derek. She is actually
trying this new thing where she keeps her her two
besties kind of separate. So she has a relationship with
Derek and that's very different and very separate from her
(01:39):
relationship with Christina, and she's trying not to cross any
boundaries between either of those. But it is causing a
major complications, specifically with Christina this particular episode. And so
you know, Christina is like, girl, just be my friend
and tell me what's up. And she's like, but you know,
I got Derek got can't be sharing our secrets. Ah.
(02:01):
And so it forces Christina to kind of have a
really challenging conversation with Owen directly about Teddy, and he
shares some things and we all see that Teddy is
kind of waiting in the wings in the background unexpectedly.
But you know, Teddy finds out that yeah, oh and
tried to have her fired. And while Owen is like,
I don't know how my feelings are with Teddy quite yet,
(02:25):
everyone has a viewer knows, baby, you are firmly in
love with her um and elsewhere, you know, Teddy's getting
hit from both sides because not only is Owen a
k A. You know her her war bestie out here
talking about her behind her back, and she found out
he try to get her fired. But Mark, you know,
she's having a casual sexual relationship with Mark and baby.
(02:47):
She catches Mark coming out the shower after he has
sex with Rees, So like, what is the truth? Mark?
Mark out here always sleeping with someone to hide his
true emotions, and we know in this episode it's because
he still loves Lexi and uh, elsewhere we have Bailey,
blessed Bailey. Finally she's divorced, she's a single mom. She
(03:09):
is getting the sex that she deserves with Warren. But
our girls catching feelings and let's be real, Bailey is
not hit it and quitted type girl in my opinion,
Like she has very much a relationship mama, And uh,
you know she caught those feelains extra quick, and Warren
had to be like, all right, you know, we need
to have a conversation because I need you to know
(03:30):
I'm not playing with you or your feelings. I got it.
You're not that type of woman. You want a committed relationship,
so let's do it. So those are the highlights of
the episode. Kendall, Oh my gosh, first and foremost, where
were you when you first encountered and fell in love
with Grays? And you know what was kind of that
episode for you? That did it? All? Right? Well, let
(03:53):
me time travel back, because when Grayson at Me first started,
I remember Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural started at the same time,
and so for it was like that same like two
thousand five, two thousand four or two thousand and five
something like that, and so Supernatural started and I was like, yes,
(04:14):
this is for me. Gray's Anatomy started and I was like,
oh my god, that sounds so great. Not my kind
of thing, because I never watched hospital dramas, like I've
never seen a girl funk back e R the o G.
I'm gonna force you to go back and rewatch it
because it is on streaming and it is divine and incredible,
(04:34):
but I will not look it against you. I will
not like it. Just real talk. The only hospital drama
that I had ever seen was General Hospital, and that
was just because that's what my grandparents watched, Like my
soap opera was and will forever be, The Young and
the Restless, so period. Yeah, period. So when Grey's Anatomy
(04:56):
came out. I was kind of like okay, And then
somewhere in the like the middle of the first season,
like one of my friends she was like, girl, what
are you doing? Where are you're not watching this? And
she wanted to watch it while I was over to
her house, and so I watched one episode. It was
in the middle of the first season, and I had
so many questions. I was like, oh, so, so they're
sleeping together, but then she likes him, but then who
(05:19):
is this? And then I was just asking all the
questions and she's like, girl, if you don't shut up,
and I was like, okay, fine, then I need to
watch not girls, if you don't shut up, if you
asking these questions, I'm trying to figure out what's happening
in this episode, and you asking me about stuff that
you should have been done watched. I was like, okay,
that's fair. And so yeah, I just I got into
(05:43):
it because I had questions and then I yeah, I
was like sucked into it. And for this episode in particular,
I think it really just speaks to what drew me
into the show overall, which is, like you said, it's
the relationships, you know, it's the friendships. It is the
steaming thiss. Yes, but how they like all relate to
(06:03):
one another. And I really really loved this episode because
even you know, like the medical parts of it I'm
not really into, but even those storylines are about the
relationships really, you know, between like the patient and the doctor,
or the patient and their husband or wife or whoever
(06:24):
in this situation, you know, the long lost love that
we um. So it was just really it was just
really heartwarming. Like I felt like a lot of Gray's
Anatomy can be just like really extreme. I'm like, wow,
this is this is a lot, but this one was
one that I felt was just yeah, it was so
very heartwarming this episode. And that's what kind of kept
(06:44):
me watching Gray's Anatomy is that there were just so
many heartwarming moments, and that's what I liked about it. Yes,
I think you're right, you know, this episode for me
felt a bit more balanced in the sense that there
were more heartwarming moments and we're used to now. There
was still some drama, because there's always some foolery, but
it was still very much like like having this elderly
(07:06):
couple in the middle be reunited and fall so hard.
I think it's always great grays Es parallels really well.
So I mean, you know, we're going to get into that.
So let's talk about Owen and Christina first, because Owen
has a lot of trauma about going to war, and
you know, again, whether or not he wants to admit it,
I do believe that he loves Teddy. I think that
(07:26):
he loves Teddy in the only way that he currently
knows how to in this moment. I don't think that
that's necessarily a healthy or sustainable love, but I do
find that to be because he is working kind of
through his trauma with his physician and his therapist, and
he's you know, like really actively trying to kind of
(07:49):
work through those um negative patterns and his PTSD and
a whole lot of other stuff that has happened in
his life, and he's on a journey. So I think
that he loves Teddy. But I also do believe that
he loves Christina, and he may or may not kind
of associate Teddy with so much kind of negativity and
negative energy that he just is like, oh, this will
(08:12):
never be. He's almost kind of talked to himself out
of it, if that makes sense. It's been even though
she's his best friend, and they've been through a lot.
It is kind of scary, right to have someone who's
seen all parts of you and still love you. And
I kind of think he's like running away from that
to a degree, even though Christina has seen kind of
the worst of him in some ways. But it's a
(08:32):
little bit different because Teddy was literally in the trenches
with him when those things occurred. Right. And I can't
believe I'm gonna say this, but the Owen and Teddy
like relationship now in these newer seasons, it's actually a
very good one. It's a strong one, and I'm kind
of glad that they had to go through everything that
they went through right now. And I will say, even
(08:55):
though I initially was hesitant about Owen and Christina as
a couple, uh um, I do think he needed to
be with Christina in order to grow, in order to
become the person that he was gonna be for Teddy.
That sounds terrible, but it's also true. So what did
you think about Owen and Christina as a couple. I mean,
(09:15):
I agree with you, it's it sounds terrible, but it's
also true. It's like I felt bad. There was a
line in this episode that really stuck with me, and
it was when Christina and Meredith were talking and she
was like I need this, and that to me just
kind of symbolize that like you're trying to force something
(09:38):
that's not exactly where you wanted to be. And it's
kind of like like you were saying, like Teddy was
there for like these like deep, deep, deep moments, So
there's a certain vulnerability there um also like mixed in
with you know, the trauma and everything that Owen is
going through. And so it's like I do like Owen
(09:59):
and Chris seen a just you know, on the service,
but whether or not there they were actually really good
for each other at that moment. I wasn't. I wasn't
there to support it, you know what I mean. It's
like I think that there are aspects of the relationship.
They're like, yeah, you all could be really good or
you could have been really good, but like right now,
in this moment, I don't. It's not working, and deep
(10:22):
down you know it's not working, but you just really
really want to be happy that you're gonna keep telling
yourself that you can be and that you are when
you're not. If that makes sense, you know, no, it
makes sense because I honestly think when you're very best friend,
when you're a person in life, you know, find their partner,
their romantic partner in life, and you are kind of
(10:45):
there and you're still dating, you're still searching. It's almost
like she's like, I need this to work because you've
already found someone and you've abandoned me, do you know
what I mean? And it's almost like she's kind of like,
I don't want to be left alone to pick up
the pieces, and you have Derek, So like, what am
I supposed to do? Now? On one hand, I'm like, girl,
(11:08):
daves someone who doesn't work at this hospital, because that
actually is probably gonna be helpful. Um. On the other hand,
she's like, girl, I don't have time to meet new
people outside of this hospital. So it's gonna be Alex,
it's gonna be Owen, it's gonna be mixing, you know
what I mean, Like it's gonna be mixed Teamy. Uh,
what what are my options? Because they're here in my face?
(11:28):
So she's kind of like, ohen is it? So I
get what you're saying. Yeah, it's very much kind of
you know, when you see all of these giant red flags,
but you're weighing that against being by yourself, and sometimes
it's like, yeah, and that's why we don't that's why
we don't see the red flags. We don't want to
see them because you don't want to be alone, right, Yeah,
(11:52):
which is a hard pill to swallow. And so in
this episode is interesting because the parallels between them and
the real couple goals and m vps of the episode
Henry and Betty, who were reunited after fifty years. I
found that every single person in a relationship at that
hospital during this time could have learned something from Henry
(12:14):
and Betty because the energy when he saw her first off,
my guy was like, am I going blind? Am I
having a stroke? At something wrong with my head? I
think I see a ghost. He recognized her immediately. It
had been fifty years, and he was like, that's my
boo honey like period, and he basically proposed to her
after an hour, and so I'm watching like where are
(12:34):
these men? Where are the Henry's Because truly he was like,
I know what I've wanted my entire life and it
didn't work out the first time. We both married other people,
we both had families, you know, we both made a choice,
but this second time around, I'm not gonna squander it.
I really felt that, so, um, they're one of my
favorite religionousy, I'm gonna say to Warren also gave energy
(12:55):
because Warren was like, girl, are you gonna get naked?
Or what really like talking a lot? And what is
the truth? So those are probably my two, um favorite,
But let's talk about Mark, because Mark is always in
a threesome. I don't know, maybe Mark's lucky numbers three
because he truly is always involved in a triad of
(13:16):
of sorts when it comes to dating. He is in
love with Lexi, she's with Alex. Now, look that's that's
one side of the triangle. Then he is sleeping with Teddy,
but also read another side of a triangle. He is
always engaging, you know. Obviously, um there was Addison and Derek.
So there's always a scenario with him and a couple
of people that it don't always go right. Listen, I
(13:39):
just need Mark to mean what he says, and says
what he means, and by the end of the episode
he does. Is his timing ideal? It is not. But
let me tell you how my man said one of
my favorite lines in television history when she said, yeah,
but I have a boyfriend, and he said, I know
you have a boyfriend, but I'm telling you you can
have a husband. Hello. Well excuse me then, sir, Like,
(14:02):
I mean run that back one good time. It's giving.
I choose you, let's do it. No games. But I
just find that, like, you know, Mark and Lexi have
been on such a journey in this episode was so
interesting because the entire time Lexi is like trying to
convince herself that she's over marked, and we all look
at her like, okay, girl, sure, so what do you
(14:22):
think about Mark and Lexi and Alex and poor Alex,
like Alex to be choosing the wrong woman every single time?
Every time? Yeah, No, that that was actually um my
little favorite relationship moment because of that line. But yeah,
that was really that was really it because I think
like running away from vulnerability. You know, when you say
(14:46):
out loud what you really really really want, that's like
the biggest risk because you you've said it, You've put
yourself out there, and now if you don't get it,
that's where you can be like the most hurt, right,
And so you do everything in your power to avoid
disappointment or to avoid you know, grief or sadness until
(15:09):
you really just have to have a moment where you're like,
all right, show up, you know, say what you need
to say. And so when he said that line, it's
kind of like, thank you finally for saying it. Is
it a huge risk, Yes, it is, but at the
end of the day, you said what you needed to
stay and it's either gonna work or it's not, and
(15:30):
you're gonna be better for it. And so I just
think all of the this behavior is just like, you
know what you really, really really want. And so when
he finally at the end was just like, look girl,
you can be with me and this is what I
have to offer, I was like, finally, thank you, Yes,
that was my moment. That was Listen, life is full
(15:52):
of let downs and risk kind of go ahead and
tell that person you love them. We don't have time now, Listen.
Mark maybe messy, but by the end he rely owns
his vulnerability, and throughout the episode he really is giving
Bailey good advice because they are two sides of the
same point. Honestly, in this episode when it comes to vulnerability,
because Bailey is so upset with Warren, but she actually
(16:12):
not really saying nothing to him. She's mostly freezing him out.
I see him out. She's being petty in the o R,
but she's not really saying, Okay, you hurt my feelings.
I thought we had something going, etcetera, etcetera. And also,
to be fair, Bailey has been out of the dating
game for a very long time, so she is not
used to having an exclusivity conversation for a very long time.
(16:32):
But she also is not handling well because she's not
really communicating that And I'm like, girl, what is the truth?
So could you relate to Bailey in this episode? And
I don't know. I enjoy the evolution of Bailey, but
I also enjoyed the fact that she is a woman
who's committed and she just doesn't apologize for it. While
everyone else in the hospital is doing what they do
(16:53):
with who they want to. Bailey's like, I actually prefer
to be in a relationship and that's just how I'm
gonna live my life. And I'm like, you know what, girl,
do you do what makes you happy? I like that
for you. Yeah, I could empathize, but I couldn't relate.
I just think The reason why I couldn't relate is
because it's not how I personally would respond because I
(17:15):
want to here, I'm like, I don't I don't have time.
Like if I if I feel irritated about something, or
if I saw something and I questioned it and I'm like,
I don't know what that what this is, I'm just
gonna bring it up. So her reaction is not the
reaction that I would take. But I completely understand, you
know where she's coming from. I'm also to be fair,
(17:36):
not a person that you know has a child and
it's going through a very messy, difficult, stressful divorce while
also working, you know, as a doctor in a very
high stress hospital situation. So it's kind of like, alright,
I have to take that stock in terms of like
how I can how I can actually relate, but I
empathize with her in that situation. Fairy, he is a
(18:00):
good flirt, so I mean it can look pretty convincing.
I mean, you know, to be fair to Bailey, it's
kind of like, but yeah, right, like I'm not gonna
be talking over you in the er. We don't need
to have a conversation before we get into excuse me
in the R. Before we get to the o R,
I'm gonna need to have this conversation with you because
I'm not gonna ice you out. And also you're the
(18:21):
natsiology on my asiologist, excuse me, on my service, and
I need you to be focused, and I need to focus.
And I don't really need to be thinking about ways
that I can be petty with you right now when
a patient's life is in my hands. So instead, let's
talk about it before or let's talk about it after.
But when we're in this o R together, maybe I
(18:41):
need you to be a rock star anstusiologist and do
what absolutely needs to be done so we can save
this patient's life. I don't need this extra drama right now,
So I'm with you there. Sometimes I gotta be like, listen,
we don't have to talk it out, as uncomfortable as it.
Maybe we're just gonna have to talk it out. So
I have to ask, who is your favorite character this episode?
(19:02):
Mark period. I love seeing a cynic come around full
circle after a long day of surgery, a long day
of being like I could be in a throuble with
Teddy and read, and then he has a conversation with like,
what I like to call his north star Callie and
(19:22):
she's like, baby, you love LEXI stop fighting it, yeah,
just stop fighting it. Just say it. And then he
said it, and I'm like, yes, thank you, because we're
all we're all suffering watching you go through this, so
just say it and save us all and save yourself.
Now we're all suffering. Okay. For me, it's definitely gonna go.
(19:45):
I don't know, well, it's gonna be a little bit
of a tie because I do think Meredith comes through.
So yes, Um, the couple ideally are my favorite characters
this episode. The hopeless romantic in me will always love
a good love story, particularly between older people. And here's
the thing. I love elderly people. I love getting older.
(20:06):
I love this idea of age. I think that they
are so wise, they have so much wisdom, and I
love that life does not have to end when society
says it does. Um, particularly you know when it comes
to older couples losing their first spouse. I think there's
always time to find love in life. I think there's
always time to do the things you want to do
(20:26):
in this lifetime. And I don't think age has anything
to do with that. And so I loved seeing kind
of this beautiful couple come together. Um My honorary mentioned though,
is going to go to warrant because energy always warrant. Said, girl,
if I told you I'm dating you, I'm dating you, period,
Like this is it? Like I understand you have feelings
(20:48):
that based on what you saw, but let me tell
you what I told you earlier. Let me repeat to
you what I'm telling you now. In my personal opinion,
warren't like dates like me. I'm like, if I said
this and not even when it comes to dating, if
I said it, then this is what I mean, Like
there's no room for an additional interpretation, like I say
what I mean it. Warren's like, I say what I
(21:10):
mean and this is what I mean. Now, girl, are
are you ready or not? Because this is what we're doing.
So I'm like, shout out to Warren for being such
a matter of fact character. Mean what you say, say
what you mean. I think that that might be kind
of the lesson of this episode. Me what you say.
I would say what you mean at all times because
it could lead to love and more. Um, well, thank
(21:34):
you so much for joining the show. I had so
much fun. This is one of my favorite episodes. I'm like, yes, honey,
please Henry and Betty invite me to your second wedding. UM,
but thank you for chatting with me and spending time
and coming on on call with KB. You are welcome
back any time. Thank you, girl. I will happily come
(21:54):
back for another session. This was so much fun. I
know it feels like a little bit of therapy for
your own life. So you're talking about the characters, like, oh,
what do I need to do after this ends? Exactly?
Now for a quick break before we dive into our
chat with our experts. Welcome to en call with kp
(22:17):
Dr Joe. Happy to be here. Oh my gosh. Listen.
So we are chatting about this episode of Grays that
deals with shocker complex relationships across the board and not
just necessarily romantic one. So we have Haley May, who
is portrayed by Demi Lovato in this episode. UM, and
she comes in and she's classified as a psychiatric case
(22:40):
in nature, but we find out soon enough that her
issue is actually neurological. So I asked Dr Joe to
join today because of her expertise in pediatric psychiatry, which
falls directly in line with this episode and what we
see um in Haley May's unique case. So first, Dr
(23:00):
Joe Listen, I always like to ask all of my guests,
tell me a little bit about your life. How did
you get into this profession? And wasn't really just you know,
from a personal connection to medicine. Did you just have
an interest in science or you know, like, when did
that shift happen? When did you know? Oh, my gosh,
psychiatry is the space for me. So I am Niningerian.
(23:22):
I love my Ninjerian culture and a big part of
my culture is our delicious fresh food. So I grew
up with my family buying goats, buying chickens from farms,
and then we would clean them. And that was actually
my introduction to anatomy because I got to play with
the intestines. I got to play with the brain and
the hides, all of it. And so through that exposure,
(23:46):
it was always so fascinating to me that this tiny,
squashy thing that was relatively small compared to the rest
of the body just controlled everything like that that's essentially
the powerhouse. Um there were even I was that's like
if my parents bought a chicken and I got to
play with the brain and they cooked it and I
ate it. When I was a young child, I was like, okay,
(24:06):
so if I eat a chicken brain, does this make
me become a chicken? And so just silly things like that.
I know that the mind of a child, right. Um.
And so that was my first introduction to biology, anatomy
and essence medicine, and my fascination just grew. Um. Like,
(24:27):
in college, I did a concentration in neuro engineering, and
then I decided to go to medical school. And initially
I thought I was actually going to be a neurosurgeon,
but you know, getting exposed to that, I was like, Nope,
this is not fit my personality, This is not fit
the lifestyle that I want. This is not going to
(24:47):
provide me the balance that I foresee from my future. Um.
And then going through like a neurology rotation have the
same sort of sense. And then with psychiatry, it just fit.
I fit my personality style, it fit the things that
I was interested in, and so I just went through
that training process and here I am today and I
(25:07):
really really do enjoy the work that I do. You know,
It's interesting. My first job was actually for a neurosurgeon,
and um, it was my senior year of high school
and it was an internship where I went four hours
you know a day, every day for five days a week,
and it was the most intense and so I knew,
you know, even at that early juncture of my life
(25:30):
where I had still planned to go to medical school
and this was you know, before me going to college
and realizing that I didn't want to treat patients but
I wanted to be involved in medicine in a different
type of way. Before that even occurred, I was like, oh,
I know, I cannot be a neurosurgeon, like just working
on a day to day basis. I was like, this
is wildly intense, and I kind of want to have
(25:50):
more work life balance. Like I kind of figured that
out very very quickly, and I knew that, like my
personal life would pretty much not exist if I, you know,
became neurosurgeon at that time was what I was thinking.
And this is my teenage brain, you know, kind of
talking and moving for sure. Um, but yes, yes, I
love that. So I always like to ask my guests
(26:11):
to you know, Um, it's funny because I've had people
on this show who had never seen an episode of
Gray's Anatomy before, which honestly is like kind of my
favorite because it's like, Hey, you're doing this show and
this is the first time you're watching it. You can
give me your like true honest opinions about how you felt. So,
what is your relationship with Gray's Anatomy? You know, kind
of were you an avid fan when it first came out?
(26:33):
You know, are you one of those people that you're
gonna binge watch season nineteen when it's over. You know,
let me know their their levels to this Gray's Cult,
as I like to affectionately call it. They definitely are
levels to it. Um. I used to be a huge
fan of Grace. I mean, the show still holds a
wonderful place in my heart. Um. I think it's it
(26:57):
was just such an unrealistic and entertaining jian, especially when
I was in medical school and residency fellowship. I was like,
wait a minute, that never happens. But it just brought
almost like a lightness, And it's funny to see that
in the show like this, where they focus of the
drama and tragedy to to sort of draw people in
(27:17):
into each episode. I kind of dropped off when Christina
left and um, yeah, I just wasn't the same when
she left. And with the whole dizzy storyline Isy and
Danny that was so off put in for me that
I think I never quite fell back in love with
Gray's Anatomy as I had when it first came out.
(27:39):
I've not seen since the nineteen at all, but I
know it exists. What you don't like the Issy and
Denny storyline that was awful, so awful, terrible. It's one
of the greatest I find love stories. It's obviously like
wild from a career perspective, because you're like, oh, she
definitely would have been fired immediately, Like she broke so
(28:00):
many laws and codes and you know, so many different things.
But I found that like the way that Danny loved
her is the reason why people watched right, Like, obviously
they're having an inappropriate relationship, but the way that he
cared for her even in his kind of final days, uh,
and the way that he viewed life, the way he
(28:22):
taught her to view life. I think because of his condition,
it's something that I always loved. Oh my gosh, you
might be like the first person I've ever talked to
who did not like this love story I did not consider.
It's kind of akin to people thinking the love story
between Romeo and Juliet was romantic. That is not a
romantic story at all. When I look at Izzy and Danny, no,
(28:46):
I saw more codependence and maybe just lends that I
traded it. I did not enjoy that storyline at all.
So Danny is I don't know. Danny loves her in
a way that is I think most authentic to who
she is. And I don't think a lot of people
really understand Izzy as a character as a human on
(29:07):
the show, Like it's very hard for her, I think
to find her people in a lot of ways on
the show, And I think that Danny represents someone who
knew almost immediately kind of who she was and understood
her in ways that no one else on the show
really did, maybe apart from Alex and once they get
to that. But I think for me, it was when
(29:30):
she had the tumor and saw Danny's ghost that was
like a struggle for me to to to really come
on board with. But yeah, I definitely was side eyeing
kind of the ghost sex portion. I mean I understood,
like once they broke it down with the tumor, etcetera, etcetera.
But I think that you know, there were liberties there
(29:52):
and so, uh, you know it happens with Gray's But
let's dive into this episode specifically. So, how did you
feel about your rewatch of this episode? You know, it
has a lot of friendship and relationship drama, but also
some very pure romantic moments between that elderly couple who
finally gets to be reunited after decades and after like
(30:14):
fully lived lives with other partners. They're finally back and
it's it's interesting to see what each individual takes away
from like their interactions with this newly reunited couple. As
a Christina fan, I was very, very excited to see
her again. Um, you almost felt like an old friend
that I didn't see in a while. I watched the
(30:36):
episode with a relative and we actually legitimately squealed when
she popped up on the screen. Um. A lot of
the time, like with regards to the elderly couple, a
lot of the time with Grays, from what I recall,
most of the episodes result in some sort of um tragedy.
So as soon as I saw their love story playing up,
(30:58):
my mind, honestly, went to, oh know, which one of
them is going to die? And so it was very
initially I thought it was going to be the guy,
but then I was like, I don't know this old lady,
she looks too healthy. I'm probably gonna kill her off.
And I was very surprised by their happy end, and
I really was. I really enjoyed this episode. I really
(31:20):
did like all the oldies were back. Yes, yes, I
mean it's crazy, how like Grace has kind of trained
us to think that something exceptionally bad is going to
happen to a character every episode. That's how stable. But
they made us this way. I mean truly, truly they
created this in us. UM. But yes, so let me
(31:40):
ask you, just from a pediatric psychiatry perspective, what is
the most extreme case that you've seen thus far in
your career and is it anything even remotely similar to
a young girl, you know, kind of hearing all of
her internal organs and being misdiagnosed. Not as dramatic as that, UM.
(32:03):
The a case that comes to mind is I have
UM an eleven year old patient who is diagnosed with
schizophrenia at age eight, and that's very very uncommon. UM,
schizophrena by itself is not a common diagnosis. And when
you're thinking about schizophrenia, it's divided into three stages. There's
(32:24):
a childhood unset, so anyone less than thirteen years old,
and the prevalence of this in the US is zero
point zero four percent of the whole population. So if
someone told me I have a zero point zero four
percent of getting a cookie, probably just go home because
chances are I'm not going to get it because that's
such a small percentage. And then you have early onset schizophrenia,
(32:48):
and those kids are is anyone diagnosed or whether symptoms
show up and they're less than eighteen but over thirteen.
And then you have the adult onset, which is eighteen
years and above. And so the patient that I saw,
she had a number of symptoms, but she had like
her blood pressure wasn't quite the what you would expect
(33:11):
for for a childhood age UM, Like physically, she had
a number of facial anomalies. UM in terms of like
her fat distribution, like she had the small neck, the
sort of like very round face, very very short stature.
UM didn't really have a lot of features that you
(33:32):
would see in a lot of her other family members
um and she had some other physical symptoms. And so
right now she's working with an endochronologist to roll out
Christian's syndrome. But this is someone that presented had delusions
that someone was chasing her and hacked into her computer.
(33:53):
She was convinced that she was dating Harry Styles, and
so there were just a number of things. And if
you take just the illusions of people happening to her computer,
the thing of her dating Harry Styles, I can see
how someone would diagnose her with schizophrenia. But she has
a number of other physical symptoms that don't quite they're
(34:14):
not consistent with schizophrenia. And so when I see a
patient like her, I'm doing a medical work up, making
sure that part is is sorted out before we go
the route of of treating it as though it's a
it's a purely psychiatric condition. And with the patient this young,
I mean, that's incredibly young, Like, how do you go
(34:36):
about really advocating for a patient of that age group
and really kind of making sure that there is a
thorough work up, because to your point, she has a
lot of other physical ailments. A lot of the time,
I mean, the culture that we live in when people
hear of psychiatric conditions, UM, there's that immediate fee of like,
(34:57):
oh no, I don't know what to do with this.
Until lot of the time it's working with both the
parents and their fears of what a potential psychiatric condition
or diagnosis could mean. UM actually like going through and saying,
these are the diagnosis that I'm considering, These are the
work up that I would like to see happen. This
(35:18):
is why I'm thinking this when I'm with my patients
and very very linear and very concrete in what I'm
explaining to them, like I think out loud with them,
so it's not one of those things where they're not
walking with me throughout the whole process. And I do
the same thing for my colleagues, UM, just so that
we're all on the same page. Because the fear and
(35:38):
stigma that comes with UM psychiatric diagnosis. It's a little
bit better now compared to be like a couple of
years ago, but it's still not where we would like
it to be. So a lot of it's first addressing
the fear that people have associated with the potential of
having these diagnosis, and once that part is and then
(36:00):
walking with them UM to actually get the appropriate kind
of work up and treatment plan for people. When people
come into my office and in wages rush and be like,
oh yeah, we're gonna give you this medicine. Like I
actually take my time because I never want to be
in a situation where I do a disservice to someone
because that's someone's mother, someone's father, brother, uncle. So the
(36:23):
same way and the same sort of courtesy and kindness
that I would want shown to me and to people
in my family. That's what I always have to constantly
remind myself to extend to the people who come into
my office. Oh I love that because in a lot
of ways, that parallels Alex's journey in this episode, because
he is quite literally the only physician in this episode
(36:44):
that's willing to take his time when it comes to um,
you know, Hailey mace case, and he doesn't have a
whole lot of time to build trust, but he does
immediately kind of let her know that he believes her,
and he believes what she saying, and that he wants
to get to the bottom of what's really ailing hers. Uh.
(37:06):
You know, she is admitted to the e D because
she tries to claw her eyes out and you know,
once she gets there, when she's in the e D,
she then tries to stab herself in front of Alex
and her parents. And so, you know, Alex having a
history of of mental illness in his family and really
going through this um since childhood with his own mother,
(37:27):
he is really really intent on finding out what her
actual diagnosis is. You know, he does not believe that
she's schizophrenic in any capacity. Arizona and Derek are both
kind of like, no, you know, this tracks um and
they don't really believe something there could be something more.
But Alex taps into Lexei, you know, his current girlfriend,
and these this kind of like encyclopedia of knowledge. So
(37:50):
Alex goes to the human Encyclopedia as they kind of
refer to Alexei, and you know, is trying to drill
down what it is. And so it turns out that
Haley May has superior canal to histent syndrome. And so
I found a plethora of cases going back a number
of years, uh into the reasons why this can occur,
(38:10):
and quite frankly, based on all the cases that I
were reading, it's actually kind of common, right. So it
is caused by according to Johns Hopkins. It's caused by
an abnormal opening in the uppermost canal of the vestibule
of the inner ear. And so, you know, what I
found is that often in most cases it's a congenital phenomenon.
(38:31):
In some cases it can be caused by head trauma.
So it's interesting because you know, in the case of
Haley May and Gray's anatomy on this show, her parents
were okay with the schizophrenic diagnosis because her grandfather had schizophrenia,
so they just determined that it was hereditary and so
(38:52):
they were like, okay, you know, like, um, you know,
this is what we'll deal with now. It's based on
you know, family medical history. Her grandfather was schizophrenics, so
we know, you know, kind of how to manage this.
But it turns out and they didn't really get into
this on the show, which I think it would have
been interesting to hear. I don't believe that hers was congenital,
so hers had to have been caused by head trauma,
(39:14):
just kind of I don't know, based on the symptoms
and that they were um kind of spouting off in
this episode. But symptoms can include vertigo being triggered by
loud noises, straining loss or distortion of hearing external noises.
For her, she could hear everything internally, and she was like, um,
(39:34):
I can hear my own heartbeat. I'm hyper sensitive to
any and all sounds. And you know, in some cases
that I found, they can even hear the sound of
their eyes moving, which is so so interesting to me.
So I wanted to ask you, are there similarities between
s c DS and schizophrenia that made kind of Haley
(39:56):
may or could make potentially any any patients subject to misdiagnosis,
Or does sc d S mirror another disorder? Most more closely,
I laughed when I heard the symptoms that she had
and the diagnosis they came up with. My initial reactions, wait,
(40:17):
what where did you get schizophrenia from? Um? So? She
had nausea, vomiting, vertigo in the stagmus, and stagmas is
the one where Alex put the ocular device on her
and you could see her eyeball moving rapidly horizontal fashion.
You don't get that constellation of symptoms in schizophrenia. UM
I was also curious where they even got the paranoia
(40:40):
from the delusions, all of those things. The only thing
that maybe they could have made an argument for was
her hearing the her organs and maybe painting that as
as a hallucination, But nothing else to me based on
what they presented, pointed to schizophrenia at all. But if
(41:02):
you're seeing someone with schizophrenia, that's not going to be
their only diagnosis, especially in early onset. They will have
cognitive delays, Chances are they'll have some developmental mouthstone delays.
They'll also they'll have both positive symptoms where you have
like the delusion to listenations, and probably negative symptoms at all,
(41:24):
things like apic flattening. She didn't have any of those.
So in my mind, I was thinking, what psychologrists diagnosed you?
It's a Again, it just seemed like a reach based
on what they showed us. And then for Derek, who
is the chief of neurosurgery to look at all of
these other neurological symptoms and be like, yeah, she's just
(41:45):
it's paranoid schizophrenia or was it arizona or Derek who
said like, I think this is she's a crazy or
something like that. I was just like it was arizona,
because I also was like, I do not like this terminology.
It's it's wild it's upsetting, it's not correct at all,
but it was definitely Arizona because I remember thinking, I
(42:07):
can't believe they kept this line in there. It's very intensive.
I mean, I understand it's a TV show and and
you're you're going for that entertainment value, but they have
to understand that their audience, like who your audience is,
and with much power, and that that comes with with
how big this show was and on some level still
is today. I kind of wish they were more careful
(42:30):
because they don't really have a lot of featured psychiatrical
potentially psychiatric cases, and so I was disappointed by by
some of the things that they depicted on this episode. Yeah,
that alone, I definitely was like, you know, it's true.
I mean people often watch medical dramas, and so Grace
is no different. Obviously, people are watching, especially during a
(42:52):
time where they may not know if something is going
on with them, or they may not know what is
going on with them, but they know that something's not right,
and so oftentimes, I mean, you know, people use medical
TV shows to do the same in some capacity, you know,
whether we agree with it or not, and so having
that kind of language and that terminology can't be potentially
damaging for sure, so no, I agree, So I have
(43:15):
to ask you, they missed the mark with schizophrenia in
this episode completely, but Alex stays the course. We find out,
you know what the proper diagnosis is. She has surgery.
She immediately, immediately is like back to her herself. I
mean truly, it feels like within ten minutes she's she's
(43:38):
back to herself. So I have to ask, did you
find this episode to be a realistic depiction of her
true diagnosis? And as a viewer, what did you want
to see more of? Similarly to you, when I watched
shows like this, they're so unrealistic and I have to
remind myself they're primarily there for drama and entertainment. This
(44:02):
is not a factual show. This is not a show
that you should get legitimate or accurate information about your
medical or mental health at all. UM. From that standpoint,
there was that beautiful love story, um, which is great
with the surprise happy ending, giving Grey's anatomies track history. UM.
(44:23):
There was the pushing pool of like well they won't
they with regards to mixed teamy and um Alex and
um LEXI, the medical parts is lacking, like it is
just complete rubbish. And the part about oh, we just
used the cadaver bone and now she's just back to normal.
(44:47):
The vertical is just completely sorted. There's no healing process.
Everything just great. I understand with the show you have
to wrap things up. Realistically speaking, No, it takes time
for people to actual be healed. They'll probably still have
um some of the deficits, and then as the bone hills,
then your vestueler system recalibrates and you have less of
(45:10):
the nausea and the status vomiting vertigo into That's how
it would probably play out realistically for Haley May in
this episode. In terms of what's lacking, it depends on
what you're looking for with a show like this. If
you are looking to be um to gain medical knowledge,
you are going to be disappointed. If you're looking for
(45:33):
that love story with like some medical overto undertones, then
this is your this is your show. I I'm still
a fan of Grace Anatomy and I was entertained and
I loved seeing Christina as I mentioned earlier, So if
I'm looking at it through that lens, mission accomplished for
entertainment value always always because I'm here for all of
(45:55):
the relationship drama. Listen, I'm always here for Mark wearing
his heart on sleeve after literally being told off by Callie,
like Kelly said, boy, if you don't pull it together
and just go back to Lexie, because what you're doing
is ridiculous, So pull your life together. Yes, but I
do agree. Listen. We all know that, like Grace has
a limited amount of time, and they have a lot
of patient cases, uh that they try to tackle at
(46:18):
one time, So listen, Hayley May is brand new. But
to your point, I was thinking, oh my goodness, her
vertigo just would not disappear, you know, within a few hours.
She would definitely still be struggling. Arguably, she might be
more nauseous, you know after having the procedure, as her
body really tries to adjust um before she gets like
(46:38):
more nauseous, before she ends up you know, getting rid
of the nausea completely. So you know, she had a
long way to go, but basically only half five minutes.
So I mean, in those five minutes, Hayley May, it's
to normal and her parents are thrilled that you know
that she is properly diagnosed, and Alex is living the
high life and he's so excited because his new girlfriend
(47:00):
helped him out. And little does he know, your new
girlfriend is about to get a husband and it's not
going to be you so surprised. I don't know, but yes,
So just thank you so much for joining the show.
I had a really, really great time. Is there anything
else you want to share? As as we're talking about
(47:20):
misconceptions in this episode and how people can be easily
misdiagnosed in certain scenarios, is there anything else that you
want to share? Yeah? I like the shift of people
being more open these days about what they're struggling with
um mentally, like making their their mental health of priority
and being public about it. And so that that shift
(47:43):
gives me a lot of hope that people who need
to be seen and work through certain things that have
happened in their life will actually show up to see
someone to help them. Your best friend is a nice
Vinton partner, but they cannot fix everything. So I like
that movement, and I hope that will continue to prioritize
their mental health, both in real life and on these shows.
(48:05):
But like you said, it was just great talking to
you about this episode. Um, it was wonderful to go
back and see a show that I haven't seen in
quite some time, and to revisit quote unquote old friends.
For us here that just loves Grays. We consider them
friends and family. As we're watching the show and we
are like, let's rejoined with these chaotic people. Um. But
(48:31):
I mean, honestly, the chaos, the drama, that's why we watch.
That's why we watch because it is so intriguing. But
I love what you said. It's true. I love these
open dialogues and open conversations because they are definitely necessary.
So just thanks for coming on On Call with Kape.
Happy to be here. Well that's it for this episode
(48:54):
of On Call with Kape. Join us each and every
Thursday for brand new episodes where I chat with an
expert and a super fan about the science behind the scenes.
Until then, listen to En Call with k B on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.