Roxie Nafousi: Struggle With Low Self-Worth & No Confidence? (Use This Life-Changing 3-Step Method!)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Confident is about being able to walk into any room
unapologetically yourself and walk out of it not worrying what
everyone else thought of you.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. I
am committed to making a healing world, not one that
is finished, complete or perfect, but one where we're all
a work in progress. And today to help us do that,
to heal from the inside out, to work on some
of the biggest challenges that we all struggle with. Whether

(00:29):
it's insecurities, whether it's self doubt, whether it's a lack
of self trust, whether it's feeling like we're not enough.
Maybe you've felt not smart enough, not beautiful enough, not
thoughtful enough, not tall enough, whatever it may be, and
it all affects a part of our life that we
call confidence. And today's guest is none other than my

(00:49):
dear friend Roxy Nafusi. Her new book is called Confidence,
Eight Steps to Knowing Your Worth. She's the best selling
author of manifest She's been on the show before. You
loved our episode together, and I'm so excited to welcome
back Roxy and the Fusie.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Roxy. It's great to have you back.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Ah, thank you so much for having me. I mean,
I couldn't believe I got to sit in this chair once,
so to be here twice. What is this life?

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Honestly? Like, since the moment we met, we hit it off. Yeah,
and I shared last time, just how many people in
my life read Manifest I've gifted it to so many
people as well, And anyone that's read it, anyone that
connects with your work and knows we know each other,
will message me and just say this book was awesome,
Like I love her work and to see you continue

(01:36):
to rise and soar and now create this book as
well again in your signature style of being poignant, effective, relatable, simple,
It's so powerful. Thanks and I'm so glad you dedicate
time to confidence.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Thank you. No, I'm so so honored, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Okay, so let's dive in roxy I want to Confidence
is such a big thing. I wanted to ask you
how do you defer find the word confidence?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
So I think there's so many different ways to define confidence.
And I think for me, confidence is ultimately about self worth.
It's about knowing that you are enough, exactly as you are.
And I think what confidence isn't and the way I
don't define it is being an extrovert. So a lot
of people think that if you are confident, it must

(02:24):
mean that you're comfortable being loud or you're charismatic, and
you kind of think that that's what it's about. But
for me, that's not it at all. You know. I
think confidence is grounding, it's quiet, it's stable. And one
of my favorite definitions of confidence is that confidence is
about being able to walk into any room unapologetically yourself

(02:48):
and walk out of it not worrying what everyone else
thought of you. And I think when you can get
to that place, that's when you know you've reached it.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I like that definition. That's such a brilliant way of
putting it, because I think we are all over thinking
before we walk into a room, whatever I'm going to
think of me, and then we walk out, we're all
thinking what did they think of me? Absolutely think the
whole car journey home, wondering everything you did and whether
someone saw you drop your spoon or spill a bit
of wine, or drop some food or whatever it may be.

(03:18):
You're over analyzing every moment and you're wondering, well do
they think I'm smart. Do they think I'm clever? Do
they think I'm interesting?

Speaker 3 (03:26):
I'm boring? One thing you.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Said was really interesting to me, and I want to
kind of go down that road. Is how do introreeds
and extra eds demonstrate confidence differently? Or does it even
look different?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I think that I suppose. I mean I've never considered
that before, but I think they're extroverts. Probably they feel
most comfortable when they can be social, when they can,
you know, make people feel comfortable in their space, make
them feel seen had They're good at conversation, you know,

(03:59):
getting a group to get there and you know, and
they just feel good in that environment. I think for
an introvert, it doesn't mean that it's really about having
a Like I said those words before, that quiet grounded confidence.
So you don't need to be the loudest in the
room because you don't need you're not trying to prove yourself,
and that's the really confidence isn't about proving yourself. It's

(04:21):
about knowing you're enough and not needing anyone else to
kind of validate that for you.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah, why is it that we it feels so obvious,
like is there a healthy pursuit of validation or is
validation all bad?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I think that some Look, it's impossible to really think
that we're not going to want any validation at all, Like,
of course we do, and I think that we should
need some because we need to be like upstanding members
of society and respect other people. And also helps to

(04:59):
encourage us to strive to be better, to be better
in as people, as individuals, in our careers and our relationships,
you know. So it is important to motivate us to
be the best that we can be, which is great.
But I think the problem is is where validation. Well, look,
let's say that let's start with this evolutionary we needed

(05:20):
to belong to be part to survive in a tribe, right,
and so it was really important for us to be
liked by other people or to you know, to be
part of something. What's happened in the modern day is
we've taken that kind of like evolutionary need to belong,
but instead of it being kind of important for our survival,

(05:41):
it's now how we determine how enough we are or
the measuring stick of which we kind of measure our worth.
And so I think that, you know, yes, we do
need some validation to keep us growing. But we've just
taken it so far that now other people's opinions matter
more to us than our own.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, and I think you're so right that that switch
has gone from being does my class think, my trainers
or my sneakers a call to now everything is broadcast
to the whole world, and it's measured. So you got
ten likes on a post, and someone got twenty, and
someone got twenty million, and someone got twenty thousand, and

(06:23):
so you're so right that now that validation has become
a matter of net worth as well, and indicative of
how much attention you get, whereas before you're in your
classroom or even your tribe. Yeah, and you're like, yeah,
if I've got twenty people that are generally okay with me,
I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
The problem with it as well is it changes our
self perception. Let's say that, and I know you love
that quote because I love it too, that I am
not who I think I am. I'm not who you
think I am. I'm who I think you think I am.
And I kind of explained it like this. So I
was still sat next to someone at dinner once and
she would an influencer, and she said, you know, sometimes

(07:02):
I'll post something that I really love on Instagram and
it doesn't get any likes, and then I think that
that post is terrible. So you start with Let's say
you have a picture that you love of your family
and you think, this is such a beautiful picture. I
love it, and then you post it and it doesn't
get that measure of like that you are expecting. So

(07:23):
it gets ten likes, let's say, and that for you
doesn't feel enough. And then instead of you thinking, okay,
that just maybe not many people saw it today, maybe
it was the algorithm, you actually start to question your
own decision. Why did I post that? Was it even
a good photo? And so actually, instead of thinking that
it's about anything else or there's any other reason for it,

(07:45):
you change your own perception of yourself or your own
opinion of yourself. And so I think that's where it's
really damaging, is that, Yeah, we don't just look for
external validation to guide us. We look for it to
tell us what we should think about ourselves.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, that's so good, And you made me think about
how we all post that caption of felt cute might
delete later, And it's like that idea of like I
felt I looked cute, so I posted this yes, And
now I'm going to see if everyone else felt I
like you, and if they don't, I might delete it later.
And that's that mindset that you're saying, where it's like,
oh no, but I thought I looked really good here, yeah,

(08:23):
and I wanted to share that, And now you're so right.
Now you're making me feel like I don't look good
in a picture I thought I looked good in, which
makes me feel even worse. What are some of the
other ways where does this show up? I love that
example that you just brought it to of posting a
picture of your family or this felt cute? Might delete later.
What are other things that you hear from people of

(08:44):
where we're seeing a lack of confidence show up? What
are people worried about? What are people scared about? What
are you hearing from people that you work with the
meat and when you're traveling, touring, speaking, what are you hearing?

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Oh gosh? I mean, I think that lack of confidence
shows up in every single area of our lives. And
I think that you know the Obviously, my first book
was Manifest, which was Seven Steps to Living your Best
Life and it was that seven step guide and step
two is removed fearing doubt. And people would often say
to me, roxy the step I struggle with the most

(09:17):
when it comes to manifesting, and to manifest we must
we can only manifest what we subconsciously believe we are
worthy of receiving. So it's all rooted in self worth,
which is why confidence is such a great extension to
my work. And people would always say, the hardest step
is step two, remove fearing doubt, because this insecurity, these
low self worth, this feeling of lack of confidence is

(09:38):
so embedded into us and into our kind of belief
system that really is the hardest thing to work on.
It's the hardest thing to undo. And so whether people
are looking for love, whether they're trying to grow within
their careers, whether they're trying to build on their own
you know, they're starting their own business, whatever area of

(10:00):
their life, it is usually the reason they're not fulfilling
their potential or growing in the way that they want
to is because of a lack of confidence. And what
I always think is really interesting with confidence is that
we always assume if we were sat in a group
of people, we would always assume that the person sat
next to us was free of it, that they are

(10:21):
so confident, we don't see their self doubt, we don't
see their insecurity. But actually, when I do my live
shows and I say, you know, to an audience of
thousands of people, and I'll say who here, I can
honestly say they are completely free from self doubt, insecurity,
or feelings of low self worth. Not one person will

(10:42):
raise their hand, And so you really start to understand
that this lack of confidence is a universal experience. It's
something that actually binds us all, and I think there's
so much vulnerability and connection to be found in kind
of sharing it a bit more with each other and
being more open about it. And it's also so comforting
because we remember that, you know, we are not seeing

(11:03):
what other people are going through mentally.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Do you feel that there's a difference between men and
women and how they experience confidence? Do you know?

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I think that women have more pressures, and so I
think that we can assume that it's much harder for
women to feel confident, but I think it's harder for
men to express it. And so I also really feel
for men because I think as a group of women
it's much easier for us to go to each other

(11:32):
and say, oh god, I feel so gross today, or
oh god, you know, I really sucked up in that
meeting or whatever, And I think we give each other
more like therapy, whereas I assume, and I'm you know,
generalizing here, but men aren't as good as opening up
to each other about their insecurities, you know, it is

(11:54):
my opinion.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, No, it's a really interesting thing to think about.
And I think that's a really like interesting observation because
I wouldn't say you're wrong. I think when my male friends,
and obviously because of my work and who I am,
I guess more men and me do have those types
of conversations. But in general, even when I have my
male friends being really open about something, it's hard, like

(12:19):
it comes with a very like this is a big thing,
Whereas I assume, as you're saying that, when you're talking
it's just chit chat and it's how you feel. Whereas
this is like, hey, I've got something to tell you. Yeah,
and then it's a moment of this is what I've
been struggling with. Yeah, and yeah, it feels a lot heavier,
and therefore it feels a lot heavier to that person
in sense as well. Your first chapter is called Master
your Thoughts. You're right, your mind can be your home

(12:42):
or your prison. You get to choose which. Talk to
me about how your mind can be a home or
a prison.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
When we really think about what are the barriers to
confidence in a critic, I think everyone would agree is
the biggest one. And I think that what I've really
come to understand is how powerful our thoughts are, and
that our thoughts really do shape our reality. And the

(13:10):
reason for this is because thoughts become beliefs when they're
repeated so many times, and what we believe about ourselves
determines our whole experience of the world because it becomes
the filter through which you view everything. Every interaction, every experience,
everything is filtered through what you believe about yourself and

(13:33):
the world and then interpreted. And so for a really
clear example of this would be, let's say that you
were to hold a belief that you are naturally not
good with people. You have a belief that you're boring,
perhaps you had a belief that you were bad at
making friends. You then go to a dinner party and
you meet someone new for the first time, and because

(13:55):
you hold this belief, the way that you interpret this
person's social caure use whether they you might really focus
on the fact that they look over your shoulder, you
may notice the fact that they didn't ask you a question,
but you really focus on the fact that they just
talked about themselves, and then you might really make the
fact that they walked away to talk to someone else

(14:17):
feel like this really big deal. And as a result
of the fact that you're viewing it through this lens
of I know, I'm not good with people, or I'm
not good at making new friends, what happens is you're
focusing on the wrong cues, and then you likely become
a bit defensive, and then you create a self fulfilling prophecy.
Whereas if somebody had a belief like, oh, I'm really
good with people, I'm great, I'm charismatic, people generally tend

(14:40):
to like me, you're going to have the exact same interaction.
You won't notice any of those cues, you won't misinterpret
it maybe a neutral expression as disinterest, and so you're
probably going to respond in a more positive way to
that person and be more open, and then you'll create
a reinforce that belief in yourself. And so this is
happening all all the time in our lives, and it's

(15:02):
a lot easier for our brains to actually just find
evidence to support what we already believe, rather than kind
of find conflicting evidence and then have a new way
of thinking. And so our minds really are keeping us
stuck in these patterns. And I describe it like this

(15:22):
in the book. Imagine that you're a comedian on stage
and you're on stage and you're giving your set and
the audience are booing you, they're like, get off the stage,
and essentially they're heckling you. Now, that comedian on stage
is never going to be able to give their best performance,
right because they're going to feel self conscious, they're going

(15:44):
to feel nervous. They're going to be overthinking everything that's
coming out of their mouth, and so it's not going
to be as relaxed. They might stumble on their words.
But if they were to go out and give the
same set and the audience was there cheering their like laughing,
they are going to be so much more likely to
give to deliver their best. Their jokes are going to

(16:06):
be funnier, they're going to remember things. You know, it's
going to be a fantastic show. Now, in our lives
day to day, we are heckling ourselves, and so how
do we expect ourselves to be able to put our
best foot forward? And so it's really about understanding that
our thoughts, which are then forming our beliefs, are having
so much influence over not only how we feel, but

(16:29):
who we become and you know, our whole lives. And
so being able to master your thoughts really is the
kind of like first of these a steps to knowing
your worth.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
That heckle is so real and it happens from the
moment you wake up, Like you wake up and you
look in the mirror and you go, I look so tired.
Oh I've put on a bit of way. Oh whatever
it is, right, we all have our own version. I've
got gray hairs, whatever it is. And then after that
you're like, oh god, I'm late for work. And again
it's like everything and we do it to ourselves every

(17:03):
day all day. Or I shouldn't have spoken up in
that meaning, Oh I should have spoken up in that meaning.
Oh I said something stupid in that meaning, Oh I
should have said more. Oh my, I'm not going to
get a promotion. Oh I don't deserve you know, whatever
it is. It's just it's crazy how incessant it is. Yeah, yeah,
And it's like every tiny move it almost feels like
you think someone's watching you on the big screen and

(17:25):
analyzing you every move. And I wanted to ask you that,
what's the difference between self awareness and self criticism?

Speaker 1 (17:33):
It's the intention behind it. I think that self awareness is,
and I mean is about being able to say, let's
say you've gone into a meeting and you've given a presentation,
and afterwards and during the presentation, maybe you do mess up,
maybe you don't say the right thing, maybe it's not

(17:56):
your best performance. And afterwards, if you were to come out,
self criticism would sound like, oh, you're such an idiot,
why did you do that? Typical that you would. You're
never going to get it. You've messed up. Self awareness
is you know what? That wasn't your best But how

(18:17):
can we improve for the next time? You know, there's
a kind of there's a different way of approaching it
because confidence is also not about ignoring all your flaws.
It's not about just saying, oh my god, I'm just perfect.
How I am. You know. I have a quote in
the book where I say confidence is knowing that you're
a masterpiece and a work in progress at the same time.
And so self awareness is important as humans we need

(18:39):
to be growing and evolving. But it's how can you
actually notice perhaps your flaws, perhaps areas where you could
be better and do better, but approach it in a
way that feels really compassionate, That feels because you know,
in that compassion, you're actually giving yourself the best opportunity.
Think about a child, right If you want a child
to learn a new skill, you're not going to go

(19:00):
and just break them. You know, when I'm teaching Wolf maths,
if I'm like, oh, you idiot, how didn't you get that,
he's going to be like I forget it, I think
he would be traumatized and he'd never he'd hate maths
for all the rest of his life. And yet that's
how we talk to ourselves all the time. We're just
you know, telling ourselves, we're just mean. We're mean to ourselves.

(19:25):
And it is so exhausting. And I know that so
many people listening are just tired. They're just tired of
constantly being in this battle with themselves and you just
get to a point and you're like, I just don't
want to live like this anymore.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it's so right.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
And it's interesting because we always say like you should
talk to yourself as you talk to a friend, that
it's almost like talk to yourself like you talk to
a child. Yeah, because from what you just said Wolf
like teaching him maths. It's like there's a inner child
inside every single one of us that is lacking in confidence,
that was criticized and was heckled while they were growing up.

(20:07):
It's not even talking to a friend, it's talking to
this younger person inside of yourself and your younger self
and saying, yeah, it's okay that you're not going to
mess right now, like you know you wouldn't you would,
that's what you'd say to you. Yeah, And you wouldn't
tell them to get his act together or grow up
or you should get it by now.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
And it's hard. It's really difficult when you are familiar
with the inner critic. It is really challenging at first
to be able to actually pause on the kind of
like spiraling thoughts and speak to yourself kindly. You know,
when I if I ask people like, I want you

(20:45):
to just repeat inside your head, like I love who
I am, I am so thoughtful, I'm such a good friend,
I'm so proud of everything I've achieved. A lot of
people will not even say it inside their heads, even
though no one else can hear them, because they feel cringe.
They feel like it's embarrassing, and that's how uncomfortable it

(21:07):
is for most people. So I really don't want people
to think that. I assume it's really easy to change
from having this in a critic to this kind and
a cheerleader. But it is absolutely possible, and with practice,
it becomes more comfortable and it becomes easier. And so
there's a actually there's a journaling prompt i'd love people

(21:27):
to try. I used it in my Manifest daily journal,
and it's my favorite journal prompt and it's a motivational
message from my higher self and every morning, I just
would love people to try this. Just write down a
kind message to yourself, because what it's going to do
is it's going to get you. Help you really get

(21:47):
to know that kind of voice and really give it
more power, give it a character, give it space in
your mind. And so when I started doing this practice myself.
I would write something really generic, like you got this right,
and then as I started getting more used to it,
I would write things. Let's say I was nervous for
something that day, I'd write something like today is going
to be great. You worked really hard for this, do

(22:09):
your best. Or if there was something I was really
excited for that day, I'd say, go and enjoy every second.
You deserve to be there. You know, this is part
of your journey or whatever it was. And so I
think that this can be a really powerful prompt for
those people who think that I just don't even know
where to start with talking to myself, like my and

(22:30):
a child or like a friend, this can just help
you get to know their voice.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, I really like that.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
And I think that's what we have to understand, is
that even that in a critic is not us. It's
just a rehearsed, habituated, conditioned voice that you've just practiced.
So you've practiced that voice your whole life that says
you're a loser, you're not great, you're not enough, you're
not good, whatever it is, and if you start practicing
another voice, that will change. Yeah, And that for me

(23:14):
was always massively helpful in recognizing that you could change
pretty much anything and everything if you wanted to, and
if you chose to, because all you were living out
was a habit and you weren't living out your destiny
as it as if and that's what we believe. We
kind of believe like I'm born like this and this
is what I have and this is what I'm living with.

(23:36):
And really what you're saying is no, if you master
your thoughts, yes, you can change your beliefs, and therefore
you can change your reality.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I love the idea of a motivational message from your
higher self, because that's even beyond being kinder to yourself.
That's really saying, well, let's live your life from this.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Point of view. Yeah, and how that changes everything.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
And it's almost like even if you went one day
living like that, Like even if you could just do
twenty four hours of talking to yourself and looking at
your life through your motivational message through your higher self,
I feel, wow, I could accomplish so much.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yeah if I just lived up there.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Oh god, yeah, so I have this great, great tool. Actually,
So if we think about our higher self, like, what
really is that higher self? For me. It's your most
empowered self, It's the best you. And if you're struggling
to kind of think about that version, what I would
say is close your eyes and I want you to
really think about you one year from now. And I

(24:32):
want you to allow all your fears and doubts to
just sit by the side like you don't need them now,
set them aside for now, and I want you to imagine,
one year from now, who is the best me that
I could be? Who would I love to become? And
really get to know that version of you? How would
they walk into a room, how would they walk out
of it? How do they feel about themselves? How do

(24:53):
how do they interact with the people in their lives?
How do they feel when they're at work? And you
really start to get this really clear idea of who
is the best you and that is your higher self?
And then how do you start to bring that version
of you to life day to day? While you can
do it in every decision that you make, because from
the minute we wake up to the minute we go

(25:13):
to bed, we make hundreds thousands of decisions, and really
our life is just a culmination of all the decisions
that we make. Right the choices that we make, and
before every decision, before every choice, I want everybody listening
to just ask themselves one question, what would my higher
self do? And I want you to, like you said,
try one day living like this should I would they

(25:35):
snooze their alarm? What would they eat for breakfast? Do
they reply to this person? Do they say yes to
this thing they don't want to do? How do they
go into work? What's their body language like today?

Speaker 3 (25:46):
You know?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
And I think when you start to realize that actually
your higher self already exists, you just need to bring
that version of you to life. I think it can
be so empowering.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, I love that advice. It's it's yeah, it's such
a it's simple. Well, we can all do it, and
it is just practicing, it's rehearsing. I think we don't
realize that we're all we've all been acting just with
really negative lines, and we've learned them and rehearsed them
for so long, and we've got to start acting like
that higher self to access it. And that's what's so interesting.

(26:18):
I love what you said that it's already there, but
in order to access it, you have to act it.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
You have to be it.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
You have to live it, you have to practice it,
and then you go, oh wow, I do have that ability. Yeah,
it's what you were saying earlier, that if you went
in and gave your presentation as if someone who was
really comfortable, all of a sudden, you might actually notice
you have other skills that you didn't even know you had. Yeah,
and when you're being scared about oh am I funny
enough or am I clever enough? For that just boils

(26:47):
up everything else inside of you and dissipates. I wanted
to skip to step three because I want to be able
to read the book. The book's called Confidence, eight steps
knowing your worth and picking my favorite steps, and I
want you to get the book to read the steps
in between. I love the step stop trying to be
liked by everybody. My favorite this Yeah, this is my
favorite step too, because it's such an addiction and I

(27:09):
had it for such a long time and it of
course we all still deal with it, so it's not
like I'm beyond it at all, but I remember it
having such a hold of my life that I couldn't
be authentic. And that's what's so interesting is that we
think that the people that are liked by everyone are authentic.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Sometimes the people who are liked by everyone are the
people who tell you that they've just been wearing a
mask and hiding their boundaries and ignoring their feelings about
how they feel around people. And actually the person who
says no, or the person who says I'm really sorry,
I love you, but I can't make it, or the
person who says, hey, I wish it could be there
for you, but it's not possible, they're actually being honest

(27:51):
and authentic because they're not bending and molding themselves to
get you to like them. So when you say stop
trying to be liked by everybody, you said stop trying
to be like everyone you don't even like everyone.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, And I love that, Like, I was like, that's
so good.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah, it was a quote I found on Instagram. I
don't know who said it. Yeah, stop trying to be
liked by everyone, you don't even like everyone. It's so good.
It's how the step starts. And look this for me
is I just love this step. It was the most
liberating step in my own journey, and I think will
also be for most people listening, because again, we talk

(28:28):
about the barriers to confidence. So one is of course
the inn a critic, right, that loud voice that is
just telling you you're not good enough. That's stopping you
from putting your best foot forward. But the other is
this constant concern of what will someone else think? And
this is holding us back in so many ways, whether
it's creating people pleasing behavior, it's stopping ourselves, stopping us

(28:49):
putting ourselves out there taking risks because we have fear
of judgment and shame. You know, there's so many things
that it's ruining for us, really, and so I've come
up in the book with these four essential truths and
I really love them, so I'm should we just go through?
So the first essential truth is nobody is really thinking

(29:10):
about us as much as we think they are. So
there's this thing called the spotlight effect where we assume
that people are perceiving our flaws as much as we are,
but they're not. So let's say you have a spot
on your face and you are convinced everybody's staring at
it and they're probably just not. Or maybe you're in
the gym and you do your workout wrong or you
drop your weight and you think, oh my god, everyone
has seen it again. They just don't. People don't perceive

(29:34):
what you perceive. And I think that also, you know,
when we're really honest with ourselves, nobody is tuning in
to the next episode of your life. They just don't care.
They really don't. And be comforted in that. You know,
sometimes I see people on I don't I don't mean
this in like a mean way, but people will say

(29:55):
on Instagram and I'll see them apologizing like, oh, I'm
so sorry, guys, so genuine apology. You know I haven't
shown up online, and I'm like, you do not need
to apologize. I'm certain no one noticed. And I don't
mean that in a mean way. I mean, and give
yourself a break. If you want to be offline, be offline,
like you don't need to feel bad about it, Like,

(30:15):
do that for yourself. So no one's really thinking about
you as much as as we think they are. The
second is you never really know what people are actually
thinking of you. So I want to give you a
quick story of this where this is when I first
really realized this myself. So you're a public speaker, so
you know that when you give performances on stage and
people are listening to you. When people are listening and

(30:38):
they're concentrating, they look like they are intensely bored or
they hate your people's resting expressions are not warm in general.
And when I first went on stage, it was my
first ever workshop. I didn't know this, and so I
went on stage and I was, you know, really nervous anyway,

(30:58):
because I'd never done it before. I stepping outside my
comfort zone. And I remember this particular woman and she
was wearing this pink track suit and she honestly looked
like I had just insulted her children, like she clearly
couldn't stand me. And you know, we have a negative bias,
and I was focusing my attention on this woman, and

(31:19):
after the interval, I honestly couldn't believe that she'd come back.
And anyway, I managed to get through the rest of
the show. And that was an assassday. And on the Monday,
I got an email and it said, Hierroxy, I came
to your show. I absolutely loved it, and I was
wondering if you did one to one coaching. I don't
know if you remember me, but I was wearing the

(31:40):
pink track suit aha, and I was like, ah, yes,
you know, you really never know what somebody is thinking.
And I think that we can take someone's let's say
they're directing an email or they don't reply to a
What I mean, how many people listening have had their
friends not message them back and they're convinced they hate
them or have I done wrong and then only for

(32:01):
them to be like, oh god, sorry I was so busy,
or sorry this happened. You know, we just really never know,
and so let's just stop putting narratives that put ourselves
in this kind of disadvantage.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, it's fascinating to hear that. The first step is
no one's really thinking about you, yeah, and the second
is you.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Have no idea what they are thinking. Yeah. Brilliant, and
it reminded me.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I remember when I was at university, we were learning
a case study about the acrobatics and performance company circ Disilay.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh yeah, I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
So for anyone who's seen Circuit's this crazy like jumping
through fire hoops, dancing acrobatics, like spinning around on a
you know, something suspended from the air, like it's unbelievable,
and they would go and travel across the world and
they'd have acrobats from all over the world. Whenever they'd
perform in America, when they'd do a triple flip and

(32:55):
fall through a hoop of fire and land on their feet,
the audience.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Would go bel like they would.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Be like cheering and like, you know, just like full on,
just like pandemonium, right, the audience would go crazy. And
then when they'd go to Asia, the audience would just
do a small tap in their hands. And so this
person's just like literally jumped through three hoops of fire,
a triple backflip, like done the most crazy thing, and

(33:21):
they get this small tap. And they found that their
acrobats would get really like you were saying in your
own they would get really self conscious and think they
did a bad job. So they'd go to circ and
be like I think I did really bad today, Like
I don't think we did a good job today. They'd
get really disheartened. Their performance would lack the next day.
So CIRQ started engaging I don't know if they still

(33:43):
do this, but at the time they started engaging companies
to train them in how different cultures show praise. Wow,
because all cultures show praise differently. So some parts of
Asia they loved it, but the way they showed praise
was more muted, whereas in America the way they shoul
praise was really big and bold. And obviously the UK
would show praise different in Europe would. And so this

(34:05):
idea also of just like this woman in this pink,
pink sweatsuit.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
But it's also exactly what we were saying before about
how encouragement helps you perform better. Yes, so the fact
that they their you know, acrobatics was kind of deteriorating
slightly because they weren't getting the encouragement that they needed.
And I think we naturally need encouragement and that needs
to start with ourselves.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yes, yes, exactly, and I think we all know that.
We all know the days also just to show how
external validation also doesn't carry us and what you're saying
about the voice in your head. We all know days
where everyone keeps telling you you're amazing and you don't
feel it. Ye, it doesn't matter how many people tell
you you look amazing, you feel amazing, you're doing amazing

(34:52):
when you don't feel it, because when you don't feel it,
all of that just doesn't matter. But then when you
feel it inside, even if someone said, you didn't do amazing,
you can still feel confident in yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
So the third truth is you can't please all the
people all the time. My mom used to say that
to me growing up. And when I first started getting
into this work, I remember thinking, you know, I was
a self confessed addict a year ago, and now I'm
trying to speak about self development, like who is gonna

(35:27):
like what are people going to think? They're going to
think I'm a joke, Like, they're not going to take
me seriously, They're going to think I'm too young, They're
going to think this or that. And I remember finding
it really challenging because you know, it was stopping me
doing what I really wanted to pursue. And then I
thought about the people that inspired me, whether that was

(35:47):
you know, Brene Brown, Tony Robbins, you you know, all
these amazing celebrities I followed, whatever, and I thought, you
know what, of all those people, there are loads of
people who all so share my admiration and you know,
love and you know and all of that, but equally

(36:09):
there are also people that don't. And then I thought, well, wait,
that's true for everyone I know that famous or not famous,
there are people that like them and people that just don't.
They just don't get them. And for me, I suddenly
realize like nobody on Earth is universally liked nobody, And

(36:30):
that was so freeing because I was like, oh, Okay, well,
I don't need to keep trying. I don't need to
be in pursuit of this thing, which is that everybody
will like me. I just want and I hear that
a lot from people. I just want everyone to like me.
Really yeah, And I think it's something that I hear
people say time and time again. It's like, soon you

(36:50):
realize that that's never going to happen, the better look,
and so really, I think the best thing you can
do is just be who you like, whilst respecting and
being a kind, you know, human, but know that there's
never going to be an opportunity for you to be
everybody's cup of tea, right, And then that kind of
brings me to the fourth truth, which is it's not personal.

(37:13):
And the way I think of it is like this,
everything in the universe is energy, and we are all
energy too, and we have all met thousands of people
in our lifetime, and aren't there just a few that
you just clicked with instantly, like you couldn't say why,
you just felt this instant bond, this connection. And probably
most people listening will have someone in their life that

(37:34):
they can say, I have no idea why we're friends.
I have no idea why we're together. We just click,
but we're so different in every way. And for me,
I'm like, yeah, it's energy, and just in the way
that there are people that you absolutely just click with
and you can't say why. There are people that you
just don't energetically, you just don't vibe. And you might

(37:57):
have a friend that has another friend and you meet
them for the first time and you're like, what were they?
What are they? Start statura as first for right, and
when you see things as energy, you are so much
more able to stop taking it personally. It's not if
you don't get on with someone, it's not about you,
and it's not about then you're just not the right match.
And this is so helpful in all situations in our life,

(38:20):
whether it's at work, because there will be some colleagues
you get on with, some you don't. You just rob
each other the wrong way. But it's also so good
with dating. So for people who are dating who you
know when you go in too dating? I mean, dating
is so triggering anyway on our confidence and self worth.
But you know, it's so when we go into dates,

(38:40):
we always go in with this mindset of you know,
I really hope they like me right. And I always
think you should actually be going in and saying, I
really hope I like them right. But if it doesn't
work out, if there isn't a second date, it's so
easy for us to just go what was wrong with me?
And it's said, I just want people to adopt this
mentality of it just wasn't an energetic face, It's just

(39:00):
not personal, And I think it's just so helpful to
adopt that mindset.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
What's the difference between people pleasing and making people happy?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Wanting to make people happy and to bring happiness into
people's lives is full of I think it comes from
It can come from a confident place, a place of
I have so much love that I want to share
it with the people around me, So it comes from

(39:32):
a place of worth, whereas people pleasing actually comes from
a place of low self worth. People pleasing is I
have to please others because I'm not worthy of putting myself. First.
I have to please others because I need them to
like me. I have to please others because I need
to I need to be enough. And so I think, yeah,

(39:55):
I think making people happy can come comes from a
place of worth, and people pleasing comes from a lack
of self worth.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
That's so good.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
That's such a great answer, because I think sometimes we think, oh,
I'm just not going to care what anyone thinks. Yeah,
And I always hear both, right, You hear one end
of the spectrum. It's like, I wish everyone liked me.
The other end is well, I don't care what anyone thinks.
And I'm like, well, neither of those are real or true,
because you can't just not care. If everyone just didn't
care what anyone thought, by the way, there'd be no
need for art or music or philosophy or anything because

(40:27):
we wouldn't care what anyone thought. So no one would
listen to this podcast, and no one would read a
book ever, no one would watch a movie because we
don't care what anyone thinks. Yeah, and no one would
ever do that for us, so we'd lose so much connection.
So caring is important. But I love what you said
about how when it's really about making people happy, it's
actually about them. And when it's about people pleasing, it's

(40:50):
all about you and it was never about them. You're
doing that so that they think you're a nice person,
whereas when you're just trying to make someone happy, it's
because you're nice who you are or your kind, and
that's who you are, and it says so much more
about who you are and how you want to live.
And when I think about this idea of being liked
by everybody, there's also a part of us roxy that

(41:13):
doesn't want that friction.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
A lot of it's just conflict.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Avoidance, where we want people to like us, not because
we so need them to like us, but because we
just don't want to.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Have friction with anyone.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
And what you said, which I appreciate, is actually it's
about energy, and there's so much if you if everyone
liked you and you liked everyone, they would not be
that special friend, They would not be that loving partner.
There wouldn't be that memory that you have in a
sibling or someone because if you liked everyone and everyone
liked you, you didn't get that magic.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, that's so true. Love you said it.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
The energy you said about energy made me think of it.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, like there are you said there were certain people
you just click with you it makes that person so special.
If you ever liked you and you liked everyone, know that
they're just another person.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's such I love the way you've just phrased it, Like,
because everything you need, you need duality in life, Like
we need challenges and dark days so we appreciate the
good days. We were talking earlier about habituation, right, how
we become desensitized to things, and if we just got
on with everyone in our life, we would be desensitized

(42:23):
to the feeling of getting on with people. So it's
like you need to have people that you maybe don't
vibe the most with exactly as you say, to really
appreciate the ones you do.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, to really experience the magic of connection. Oh yeah,
we have something special, Like you would never say that. Yes,
if everyone liked you and you liked everyone.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
You can never say we have something special.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yes. It's like, okay, if you date someone, I was
just thinking an Aquarius specifically, but no, there are some
people Okay, forget the date thing, but there are some
people people who are just friends with everyone you know
and I know people like this who are such social butterflies,

(43:05):
but they don't have those one or two really special
and deep connections. And I wonder if that's kind of
part of the same thing.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, yeah, because they get along with everyone, yes, relationship, Yeah,
and it doesn't it doesn't feel you, It doesn't feel you. Well,
I was going to ask you about that though, for
those of us who just don't want conflict and you
just don't want to get into it, someone like, oh,
why can't we just have peace? And like everyone, how
do you deal with that rejection, that conflict, that feeling

(43:34):
of that person doesn't like me.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
What do you do with that?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Because of course there is a feeling of I feel rejected,
I feel outed, they didn't invite me.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
What do you do with that?

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I think it just comes down to acceptance, like that
kind of idea of radical acceptance, right, because I think that, yes,
rejection is hard, right, and it's challenging, and it tests
the foundation of our confidence, right because it's really you know,
it's it's a horrible thing to experience and everybody's gone

(44:06):
through it. But I truly believe that you can learn
to deal with rejection in a way that doesn't lead
to this like great discomfort. And I think you can
deal with somebody just not really liking you without it
becoming something that you constantly overthink or ruminate on. And
that just comes from this mindset of it doesn't make

(44:29):
it about me. I can't really know what really is
going on for them. And there's that I can't remember
what the quote is you might remember about how our perceptions,
what people think of us is not really to do
with us. It's to do with them. It's their own experiences,
their own wounds, their own you know, all their past things,

(44:50):
and you know, perhaps you remind them of someone in
their life that hurt them in the past. Like there's
just so many different factors to us to it. Like
I said earlier, that thing to do with us, and
so it's just its acceptance. It's also not making it
things can you cannot get on with someone and it
not needs to be an argument, and it not need

(45:11):
to be a big thing, and it not need to
mean anything. And I think sometimes we just try too
hard to attach meaning to everything.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
You reminded me of that principle from the Buddha. That's
the second arrow, which is the first arrow, is the
rejection or the conflict that hurts. But the second arrow
is the one you shoot it yourself because you're adding
meaning to that first arrow. So you got rejected, but
your takeaway of the second arrow is because I'm not

(45:55):
good enough, when really the reason was they were projecting
passed on to you. They were projecting a wound onto you.
They were just busy, they were tired, they were exhausted.
There's a million reasons, and like you said, you're never
going to figure it out. And so you can play
Sherlock Homes and play investigator and try and figure out
the detective version, but you still will never be satisfied

(46:17):
with the answer. And so the Buddha says, don't fire
that second arrow because the first arrow you weren't in
charge of, but the second arrow you were, And that
second arrow is just your story, your meaning, which you're
just making up. Yeah, and we become the best fiction writers, yes,
when it's writing the nightmare version of why this happened?

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Totally, we're constantly filling in the blanks of stories that
don't exist. I said recently on my by the Way,
that was such a beautiful story. I mean that I
illustrated it so well, but I was saying, I've did
a Poston Instagram the other day, Like, you know, when
you're walking behind someone and your mind has created a
picture of what they look like, and when they turn around,
you're like, oh my god, they look so different to

(46:55):
what I thought. But it's just a really clear reminder
that our minds are just constantly creating these stories and
these narratives and these images that aren't based on reality.
They are based on so many other things that are
not that stop us from being truly objective and so
really understanding that you cannot trust your stories, your thoughts.

(47:17):
You know, it's I think, really powerful.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
I've been asking you these questions, You've been nailing the answers.
I'm asking you more of these.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Honestly, you ask me such different questions. It's so great.
You really push me to think about confidence differently. I really, yeah,
it's really great. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
No, but you've done the work and that's why we
can go everywhere like it's a time for me because
I want people to read the book and they're going
to find the great eight steps in the book, and
the advice is so and you've got you know, the affirmations,
you've got journaling prompts, Like you're giving so many practical tips.
But I think this conversation is like really trying to
figure out, like what are we struggling with? And I
want to ask you, what's the How do we stop

(47:54):
thinking that everything's our fault and still take responsibility to
make changes. I think where we get caught is when
someone breaks up with you. You think I was all
my fault. If I did this, they would have stayed.
If I changed, they would still be here. Oh if
I planned that birthday, they'd still be in my life.
And we make it all our fault, which isn't the

(48:14):
case because it's always.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
A two way thing.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, but sometimes if we don't think anything's our fault,
then we don't take responsibility. So how do you stop
thinking everything's your fault but still take responsibility?

Speaker 1 (48:26):
I think this comes down to, like there's so I
think there's so many things involved in this. I think
one actually doesn't come from anything personal, but it's more
about this trust, being able to have a full trust
in divine timing and a full trust that your life
is unfolding the way that it's opposed to. Because in
that sense, when something like this happens when someone breaks

(48:48):
up with you, when you lose the job. When whatever
it is, actually, if you have a deep connection to
a greater power, whatever that is, it might be God.
For me, it's just the universe and the energy and
power the universe might be a spiritual realm, whatever it is.
When you have a deep connection to that, you are
able to surrender to things with such greater ease and resilience.

(49:11):
And step four of my manifest book has overcome tests
from the universe, and that really is all about being
able to persist through challenges. And it's done with a
knowing that there is always reward on the other side.
And so with that overall mindset, you are able I think,
to attach less meaning, like we spoke about before, to

(49:33):
these things that happened to us. But I think that
equally when it comes to being able to how do
we take responsibility for the things that we need to
I think that comes from getting to know ourselves. It
comes from self awareness. I think it comes from a

(49:53):
genuine desire to be the best version of ourselves that
we can be. And I think that it comes from
you know, when we talk about confidence and why confidence
impacts every area of our lives. It's a kind of
I feel like confidence plays into everything. So actually, the
more confident we are, the less that we're going to

(50:15):
blame ourselves for things, and the more willing we're going
to be to be able to actually say, hey, you know,
in a compassionate way, Hey, you know what, let mean
to see, what are the things that I could have
changed here? What can I take responsibility for? And I'm
going to let go of the things that I can't.
How can I be better? But how can I also
accept the situation as it is? And so I think

(50:38):
there's this like fine balance between it and I think
that God, I just I'm so passionate about talking to people,
whether it's about manifesting, but especially about confidence, because I
just know how many people listening are having those thoughts
that you've just mentioned where they think, I just if
I had done things differently, and they live in that regret,

(51:01):
in that shame, in that guilt, and I think those
are such overpowering emotions that really infiltrate every part of
our lives. Kind of they're like silently they're just bringing
us down. And you know, it's and like we said earlier,
you know it's exhausting.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
So yeah, so you've laid out these eight steps really
simply for people to follow, and as I was reading them,
I was thinking, but that's not what we do to
become more confident. So I think a lot of people think,
when I become rich, I'll be confident. But what's interesting
is you can be rich and insecure. People think, when
I become famous, I'll be confident. But you can be

(51:41):
famous and insecure. People think, when I become a successful entrepreneur,
when I get this promotion, when I get married, when
I get through this, then I'll be confident. But you
can be all of those things and still insecure because
those things don't take away in security.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
These things do.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, I mean spoiler alert. My eight steps is not
get married, get rich, get famous.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, but I think our brain makes us believe those
other things.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yes, absolutely, And I think you know, I'm so glad
you brought this up because you know, the work in manifestation, right,
I think, is all about goals. It's about getting to
a place. And I actually had to put a disclaimer
on this because I realized that what people were doing
is they were expecting that happiness, confidence, joy would be

(52:33):
found at the end of this goal, right, so exactly
as you say, I will be happy when I get
this promotion, when I have this many followers, when I'm
in a relationship. And what I started to really realize
that I needed to share with people is that reaching
those goals is never going to make you happy. And
we know this because we know how many successful, famous

(52:57):
people are deeply unhappy. And what I realized was, Okay,
how can I try and explain to people that how
can I get people to have a goal to stay
motivated because we need something to work towards for our
mental health, we need to be moving forward. How can
I get people to find this balance between moving towards
something but not expecting happiness at the goal. And I

(53:19):
realized that it all came down to an emotional attachment.
People think I will be enough when, I will be valued,
when I will be loved when And that's why the
work of confidence is so important, because actually, what you
realize is you need to feel loved now, you need

(53:40):
to feel valued now, you need to feel worthy now
so that when you get the goal, when you get
the thing, you can enjoy it, because if you don't,
you'll still be miserable.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's so well said. Roxy.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Did you ever feel you did something that you think
would make you confiordt, but then didn't make you feel
confident in your own journey?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yes, yes, many many times. So I have been on
a very real and profound journey of my own confidence.
And I don't even know where to start with it. Really.

(54:25):
It's I remember the first time I looked in the
mirror when I was seven years old, and I remember
it so distinctly and looking and just thinking I am
so ugly, like really ugly, like monstrous. And throughout my

(54:51):
childhood I really held on to this belief that I
was just hideous. And at this time when you're a
young child and you're kind of learning your place in
the world and forming the beliefs about you, know who
you are, what I was seeing was that I was
rejected by my peers. I was I felt very alone

(55:15):
all the time, and the people that were popular and
loved were people that were beautiful, and the girls had
blonde hair and blue eyes, and not the girls that
looked like me. And I don't even know where to
begin with this whole journey. I never felt worthy and

(55:37):
I never felt enough, and I think my self loathing
was so so extreme, and I learned to cope with
the extremity of my inner critic and my feelings of
low self worth with coping mechanisms like controlling my eating,
which then turned to alcohol, which then became drugs, and

(55:59):
I was addict and went to my first NA Narcotics
Anonymous meeting when I was twenty one. I continued through
my addiction until I was twenty eight, and a big
part of what I was so addicted to was this
false feeling of confidence, something I had never had. But obviously,

(56:19):
when i'd come down from that, the self loathing would
come to the surface again, and I always felt sort
of quite disgusted by myself, but I would say it
was like a bubbling thing because I had the drugs
to constantly offset it. But when I felt pregnant when
I was twenty eight, I had to stop all the

(56:41):
drugs very suddenly, and so I was dealing with kind
of all the pain that I was running from. And
what really came to light in this time, and I
didn't know what it was then but I do know now,
was a very very severe body dysmorphia disorder. So at
this time I head through my pregnancy. I gained sort

(57:05):
of five stone. I was binge eating. But from almost
within like a week of finding out I was pregnant
and giving everything up, I became very, very fixated on
how disgusting my face was. And it's really hard to
describe how loud and how revolted I felt by myself.

(57:29):
It's a revulsion. Imagine something that you see, maybe you're
squeamish when it comes to surgery, and you see something
come up on Instagram and you just get that feeling
of disgust. That was how I felt when I looked
in the mirror. And I eventually got to a point
where I stopped leaving the house. I wouldn't see anybody

(57:50):
because I thought I was too grotesque to be loved
at Yes, while I was pregnant, and this was like
a really dark time of my life anyway, and then
after I was pregnant, let's fast forward. The self loathing
is just there. It's a constant thing, this lack of
self worth. And then we come into COVID and suddenly

(58:13):
you're interacting with people on camera a lot, and this
kind of my BDD, which I didn't know what it
was at the time became uncontrollable, as in every I'm
at this point working through my career, so I had
started doing workshops, and then at the beginning of COVID,

(58:34):
I started doing webinars. For two years, I did webinars
every month, and I did them all with my camera off.
So I don't know if anybody ever knew that that
was why. I think. I used to say that it
was because, like I thought it would be a better
experience for listen to listen, which in part is true.

(58:55):
I feel like when you're listening to a podcast, you concentrate,
But really it was because I thought that if I
had my camera on, people would be too revolted by
my face and that it would discuss them the way
that it disgusted me. And I never would never ever
show my face online unless I had a filter on it.

(59:17):
And I thought this was normal. I thought I was
just really self conscious and that I just didn't have
good self esteem. And I thought, it's just because I
need to change my face. I just need to do something,
and if I just looked different, then I wouldn't feel
this way. If it was felt kind of almost simple
to me. It's like, yeah, I hate myself, but this

(59:39):
is why. And so in twenty twenty one, I had
had chronic sinusitists for years because of the drug use,
and I had to have an operation on my sinuses
and I was like, great, this is my opportunity. And
actually I'd never considered having a rhinoplacity BEFO before, but

(01:00:00):
as soon as I knew I had to have an
operation in my nose, I was like, oh, yes, I
can change the shape of my nose and then finally
I won't have this like voice in my head. So
I had a rhinoplasty, thinking this is going to be
the thing that changes me. And I think a lot
of people will relate to this or who have had surgery,

(01:00:21):
thinking it's going to change the way you feel about yourself.
And after the surgery, I realized I felt exactly the
same and if not worse. And at this time I
start going into this work, this line of work. I
start showing up because I want to spread my message
and I start having to be in front of cameras

(01:00:41):
and it was it's I don't even I'm so sorry
because you know, I've never spoken about this properly, and
it's like really hard to explain. I was convinced, even
after I'd had the rhino classity, I was so convinced

(01:01:03):
that I was just too disgusting to be looked at,
and that everybody that would meet me would just be
thinking about how ugly I was. So then twenty twenty two, Manifest,
my first book, comes out, and I'm obviously so passionate.
This is my purpose. My purpose is to use all
the pain that I've been through in my life to
try and you know, inspire others and hopefully help other people.

(01:01:26):
And so I have this real desire to help and
share my message and to talk about it, and that
means going on you know, get if I take, get
the opportunity to go on TV, go on podcasts, but
for and I was so determined that I was not
going to let this horrible monster in my mind stop

(01:01:47):
me from, you know, doing the things that I wanted
to do to fulfill my purpose. But it was excruciating.
So every single time I would go on camera of
any sort, I would have a panic before, then I'd
be fine during, and then I'd have a panic attack after.
I mean, the first time I sat in this chair,
just before coming, I had a full blown panic attack.

(01:02:09):
Could it was just and it all came from this,
and I feel so much. The reason I've never spoken
about this is because there is so much shame around
what I'm about to talk about, I think for loads
of people who have experienced it. But I had this
real obsession of thinking that I was just too disgusting
to be seen. And it just came out all the time,

(01:02:30):
and my team around me could see how real this was.
It wasn't just oh, I'm feeling, Oh I don't look
so good today, and then you just kind of get
on with your day. It was more than that. It
was this all consuming, ruminating thought of disgust, revulsion, ugly, horrible,
nobody should look at me. And eventually somebody said to me,

(01:02:55):
I think you have BDD body dysmorphia disorder. I didn't
know what it was, and I thought that if I did,
surely that must be about your body. Well it doesn't.
Body dysmorphia disorder, and BDD can be about your face.
It can be about your body. And what it is
is a form of OCD. It's it's an anxiety disorder,
which is a form of OCD. So it's like an
obsessive compulsion thinking that is kind of comes with a

(01:03:20):
checking behavior or some behavior of sorce. So for some
people that might be mirror shaking, might be comparing photos,
it might be asking for reassurance. And it is no
different to somebody having an obsessive thought about you know,
have they turned the light switches off? Or something bad
is going to happen if I don't do the switches
three times. So it's the same pattern of behavior in
your mind, but it's to do with the way that

(01:03:40):
you look, so becoming obsessed with a perceived flaw and
thinking that it's really noticeable to other people, and it's
so incredibly damaging to one's way of life. And something
that's really hard with BDD is nobody wants to talk
about it because it seems and I have been so

(01:04:03):
afraid to talk about it, and even now I'm thinking, like,
should I be talking about this, because there is it
feels like it's just about vanity, and I see why
it seems like that, but it's so much more. It
is this deep belief that you are so unworthy and
unlovable because of your appearance, and a lot of people

(01:04:26):
that have BDD will do everything on the outside to
fix it in the way that I did. You know,
have a rhinoplasty, have botox, have filler, whatever it is.
But when you realize that you're left with the same
thought patterns, you realize that it's not about what's on
the outside. You can try and change something, but unless
you do the work within, nothing is going to help you.

(01:04:49):
And realizing that I had an anxiety disorder was very
helpful for me. I realized that it wasn't that I
was just I realized then that there was something I
could do. I could find methods to help, whether that
was CBET and actually, and I've never shared this and
didn't think I ever would, but I actually went on medication,

(01:05:13):
on anti anxiety medication. It's medication that's used often for
lots of different things, depression, OCD and severe anxiety. But
because I paired that with all this work, it was
absolutely life changing for me. And the way I can

(01:05:36):
describe the last the two years when I've kind of
like started being on camera to you know, getting to
a point where I finally felt more comfortable I could
manage it better, is like every time I is like
asking somebody with an eating disorder sit down and eat
this cake. That is the only way I can describe

(01:05:57):
it to somebody is it's such an overwhelming experience, and
you know, it influences every oere of your life, your friendships,
you're socializing, your dating life, everything. And now I've found
so and I only the only reason I'm sharing this really?
Why am I sharing this now? Firstly, I think probably
just because it's still a part of my life, and

(01:06:18):
so I think that, like I had a really I
still get a lot of flare ups when I'm tired,
when I'm stressed, it will come up. So yesterday, for example,
I was doing all these amazing things here in La
but in my head, I was like, I just completely
reverted back to my old thought patterns. I'm revolting, I'm disgusting.

(01:06:40):
And it's weird because I never have these thoughts about
anyone else. I don't care about how anyone looks. I've
never thought if only they looked better. Oh God, I
feel really nervous about talking about this. I just don't
know if it sounds Oh, it's really hard.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Please When anyone shares something that they've been struggling with,
to me, shows one of the greatest expressions of confidence,
because it's so hard to talk about it because you
know that people are going to have their opinions, you
have your own judgments of it, you're still naturally dealing

(01:07:16):
with it as we all are. So I firstally just
want to thank you for being so confident in actually
sharing it, because I don't think you could do that
if you weren't working on your inner self, because that's
the hardest part, really is admitting out loud to yourself
that this is what I'm going through and this is
where I'm at. So just thank you for your vulnerability
and confidence.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Because that's the hardest thing. I remember coaching a leader
and they'd been going through a lot of anxiety. This
is a CEO of a company with half a million employees,
and they were going through so much anxiety and stress
in their personal life and everything was falling apart. At
the same time, this company's doing exceptionally well. And while

(01:08:00):
they were going through it, at one point when they
were better versed and being able to explain it, like
I think you explained BDD so well as to someone
who doesn't know much about it, I said, I encourage them,
I said maybe you should tell your team, your EXAC team,
your leaders so that they're aware. And they said to me,
they said, how can I tell them? I said, what
do you mean? They said, well, if I tell them,
they're going to think I'm weak. And I said, no,

(01:08:23):
I think when you tell them, they're going to realize
you're strong, because they're all dealing with similar things and
they're scared of telling you because they don't think you
know what they're going through. And so I think they're
going to be so many people listening right now who
go roxy thank you for saying that, because I just
assumed you have it perfect and your life's perfect, and
you're so confident, and actually you're showing me that what

(01:08:45):
you said earlier, that you can be a masterpiece and
a work in progress all at the same time, is
actually what we're all dealing with. And as soon as
we believe someone is fully confident, that doesn't fully help us,
because then we're always measuring ourselves, thinking why am I
not there? And when we realize, oh, everyone's healing, there's
no one who's healed, then as long as I'm healing,

(01:09:06):
I'm on the right part. So I just think, hopefully
I think people will listen and feel that way. The
second thing I'll say is to me, there's I think
we know very little about the human mind and brain,
especially when it comes to a lot of these anxiety disorders.
I have friends, my wife has friends who have severe
cases of OCD, and it's so easy when you hear

(01:09:29):
about the problem to just be like, how does that
make any sense? It doesn't make any sense. Just just
do it anyway, and we can kind of throw these
band aid answers onto severe issues that we actually don't understand.
And the more I've done the work I've been doing
in coaching and my friends who are therapists that I
learn from, and when we're working on clients together and

(01:09:49):
I'm learning about what clients are going through, the more
compassion and empathy I've gained for things that I don't understand,
because it's so easy to be like, well, my brain
doesn't work that way and I can't compute it and
comprehend it. So that just sounds really ridiculous. But the
reality is that when you go through something yourself, you
then go oh crap, Like I remember me and my
friends didn't believe when you were on your teens you

(01:10:11):
didn't believe depression was real.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I was just gonna say that I used to think
the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
When we were young, Like you didn't believe depression was real.
And then you go through I've been through depressive episodes
in my life. You go through it, and you go God,
I didn't even think my brain could go there. And
anyone who has a friend who's gone through depression, who's
potentially even had suicidal thoughts, like anyone who's had anyone
in their life, it's gone that you've seen how quickly
someone that you thought was happy, confident, and well became

(01:10:37):
all of the opposite things. And so I regardless of
whether we immediately understand what you're saying, I just hope
we use it as an opportunity to expand our compassion
and empathy for each other, because I think we know
so little about the human mind and human brain, yeah,
and all of these things.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
Yeah, and oh, sorry you're gonna say something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
No, Yeah, I mean, the mind is just an extreme
powerful place, And I think that it's true. I mean
that often I say that for somebody. If you find
a couple and one person has depression and one has
never experienced it, and it's come on, it can be
very hard for that person to understand, like you'll just
snap out of it. And what I do hope that

(01:11:22):
happens in sharing this It is firstly, I think BDD
is undiagnosed, So I hope that perhaps there are people
listening that actually do have BDD but didn't know, will
feel so much relief to understand that it's not just
them being super vain or this or that. If it
is impacting your life to a way that is like

(01:11:46):
truly negatively impacting your life, then there is help to
be found through different therapies. You know, medication is out there,
you know there are things that can help. But I
also think, yeah, I mean, the reason that I am
so in love with this book is because I am

(01:12:07):
somebody who literally has lived with this what is I
now recognize as an anxiety disorder that is rooted in
me telling myself how awful I am, and I have
had that in a voice since I was seven, telling
me I am disgusting, I am unlovable, I am not enough.
Whether that I thought that because of the way I
look or whatever, at the root of it was I

(01:12:30):
am not enough as I am. That is what I
have believed my whole life. I am now sat in
this chair, and I truly believe I am enough, like
I actually do love who I am. And it's not
that I don't feel it. Like I told you, yesterday
was a tough day for me, but I knew how
to manage it. I knew how to overcome it. But

(01:12:50):
ninety percent of the time I feel amazing, not in
the way I look. I just feel amazing as a human.
I feel proud of who I am and what I
can offer the world. So if I can go through
that level of extreme self hate and get to a
point where I actually can sit on a podcast and

(01:13:11):
say I like who I am truly, I think anyone can.
And these other steps that help me get there, and
I love them so much, and I just so I
just can't wait for people to feel this level of freedom,
because it really is quite an extraordinary experience, and knowing

(01:13:32):
how hard it can be on the other side, oh
my god, it's just such a relief to like not
hate yourself all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I think it's also really from what I see from
what you're saying, is because it's been a journey while
you're writing, while you're speaking is that you can have
these thoughts, you can master them, work on them, and
still do things. And I think a lot of us
feel like until I figure everything out, I can't do anything.
And what I think you're saying and showing is no,

(01:14:17):
I've been feeling all of this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
Here are the.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Management methods that I've come up with in the steps
that actually and we deal with it and then I
can still do these things. And partly what you're saying, though,
roxy I think is part of you being a public
figure too, because and this applies to everyone now, it's
not just a public figures, it truly applies to everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
All of us see our reflection too much, Yes, we
really do. We just we.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
All look at our faces more times every day than
we ever would have in the past. When you grew
up in that tribal, that village, when would you ever
see your reflection? You're looking at straw huts and you know,
wooden like spoons, you know, just whatever, like you're never
seeing your reflection. And now you're on zoom call and

(01:15:01):
you're staring at your reflection. You're on a FaceTime call
and you're looking at your own reflection. You go past
the shop window, you look at your reflection. We're on
our phones all day. We're so overexposed that I think
all of us, if we're honest with ourselves, overanalyze ourselves
physically on our face because we see our face more
than ever. I just don't think we were ever meant

(01:15:22):
to see our face this much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
So true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Someone who has an anxiety disorder that's connected to that,
I can only imagine how that's amplified, because it's amplified
even for people who don't have that anxiety disorder. And
I'm overexposed to my face, and so I think it's
also just we're just looking our faces more than we ever.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Meant to, and that's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
It's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
And I think everyone can relate to that, whether they
have an anxiety disorder or not, whether they struggle with
something else or not. I think everyone knows that we're
all looking at our face all day.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
It's so true. I never considered that we do look
at it way too much. Weighed my copar and he's
a house and he's got no mirrors in it, and
he's like, I've never felt better. And he doesn't use
this story that much either, and he's like it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
In the monastery in India, they didn't have any mirrors,
and that was the first time I had experienced what
that felt like. And forgetting how you look physically, which
I don't anymore. I'm always on camera, Instagram and my video,
so I don't know what that feels like anymore as well.
But I remember at that time forgetting how I looked
allowed me to go inward in a way that I

(01:16:31):
can never imagine doing because I forgot my physical self,
and then you can deal with your mental and emotional self.
But if you're always over exposed to your physical self,
you actually don't think of yourself as anything more. So
when you're saying I'm amazing as a human, that's going
beyond your physical self. But because we deal with everyone

(01:16:52):
just by our physical selves, we think this is all.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
We are exactly. There's a great you know, I used
to say to people a lot, and it's something I
would tell myself in all the times I would go on,
you know, to do an interview and really just be thinking,
oh my god, I'm the person interviewing where he's just
thinking about how disgusting I am, or everyone online is
going to just be talking about how ugly I am.
And those were thoughts, and then I would come out
to one thing. People do not care how you look.

(01:17:17):
They care how you make them feel. And that was
what kept me showing up. And I still remind myself
of it all the time. And I think that, and
it's true, like I think about and I would always
think about all the people I love, admire, enjoy being around,
enjoy hearing watching. None of them are because, oh they

(01:17:42):
look a certain way. All of it is because they
make me feel a certain way. They make me feel inspired,
they make me feel empowered, they make feel But this
is the thing with anxiety disorders. It makes no sense, right,
So I can rationally think that It doesn't mean the
thoughts don't come sometimes anyway, But I think this. When
you can rationalize it and remind yourself of these things,

(01:18:03):
it can be so powerful for us.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
To gain a bit more understanding of it. So what
happens when someone says, well, Rocks, do you look amazing?

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
I think you look great? Like when someone says that,
what does the disorder do internally?

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
How do you feel when you receive that? So on
a day that you're not feeling your best physically and
your face. As we talked about, it's not your body,
it's your face, and someone's like, oh, but you look great,
Like what's your thought process? What happens?

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Well, nothing, because like we said earlier, when you don't
think about it about yourself, it's it's for me if
I'm having like now, if I'm having a bad Before
it was just every day, it was just constant. For now,
let's say I'm having a bad b D D dated yesterday, right,
that was a bad day. It's a physical anxiety. So
you just feel off and then you just have ruminating
thoughts and so you might it's just a ruminating in

(01:18:50):
a critic and it's just a feeling of anxiousness. It's
really like physical in the body, and it just it's annoying.
I'm just like, oh, not again, not today, because you
want to enjoy the things. But I've, like I said,
I noticed when it happens when I'm stressed, when I'm
on hormonal, when I'm tired. But I also know now
that it will pass. I woke up this morning and

(01:19:11):
I was free from it, and I was like, Okay,
we're back, We're fine. You know it was just I
was also jet lag yesterday, so I was probably probably
that as well. So you know, it's something that's that
you can you can learn to manage. I also think
I'll just say one more thing on it that I
think it's important is that there are more and more
people having surgery now, and I think that a lot

(01:19:34):
of it will be coming from undiagnosed BDD. And so
I just think if people can just if they are
thinking about surgery and there's so much when we're seeing
on social media, you know, just really ask yourself like this,
is there something bigger, more healing that needs to be done.
I am all for people doing whatever they want to do.
I mean I don't regret my rhino plast d I
I do do botox, I do do things like that.

(01:19:56):
I like to feel good. But but is it coming
from is it coming from a place or can can
you make sure that the healing is really happening alongside it?

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
I think that's a great notice and that blis to
pretty much everything in life. Is like no one's saying
you don't want to go and become successful and don't
want to have big dreams. It's just making sure you're
doing the inner healing at the same time, so that,
like you said, when you get there, you can.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Actually experience it and feel it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
And to be honest, one of the biggest things that
all of this reminds me of because of so many
of anxiety disorders today and the challenges we have, is
that there's this beautiful line from C. S. Lewis that
I love, and he said that you don't have a soul,
you are the soul and you have a body. And
I love that because I think we live in such
a physical world where the body is all we are.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
And the more spiritual.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Work I've done and leaned into over the last two decades,
the more I've realized that the more I think I'm
the body, the less enough I feel. Yeah, But the
more I believe that I'm spirit and conscious, soul and energy,
the more abundant I feel, because that's what the spirit is.
The body is limited. Yes, the body will wither, the
body will die, the body will destruct, and the body

(01:21:11):
will get ill.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
That's what is That's why.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
The body doesn't feel enough, yeah, because it doesn't have
the longevity that the soul does. But there's a part
of us inside of us that believes we are eternal
and blissful and full of knowledge and have the ability
to outlast. It's the reason why we want to live forever,
and we're trying to stretch the body to live forever. Yeah,
but the body doesn't really have that ability. Maybe we'll

(01:21:35):
get to one hundred and fifty years, but it doesn't
have eternality attached to it. It's just not meant to be.
So to me, it's always been like again, I'm not
saying I work out, I take supplements, I take care
of my health, I do all the things. I'm not
saying to ignore your body. I'm saying that there is
a part of you that has been left alone for
too long. Yeah, and reconnecting with that through these eight steps, Yeah,

(01:21:58):
it engages you back into it. And one of my
favorite ones that I wanted to talk about was step five,
celebrate yourself. And I wanted to kind of get to
this one because to me, I think the biggest difficulty,
like you and you were saying, when you ask audiences like,
hey do you does any is anyone here free of
self doubt?

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
And no one puts up their hand.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
I often ask when I'm in an audience when was
the last time you noticed and celebrated something good you did,
and no one.

Speaker 3 (01:22:24):
Will put their hand up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Interesting because we have such a discomfort think about people
dealing with compliments. If someone compliments you, like, most of
us don't know what to do with it. Yeah, and
we shrink and we just go away and we kind
of hide. Obviously, there's some narcissists who love being complimented,
you know, like ye kind of like the opposite where
it's like their ego gets fulled. But I think most
of us just go, oh, thanks, like yeah, cool, like really,

(01:22:46):
like do you feel that way? Like we almost question it.
Talk to me about why celebrating yourself is so important.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
Learning to celebrate who we are and all that we
have to offer is such an important step of this
confidence journey, and I think that to be able to
do it, first, I need to understand why we so
many of us struggle with it. One of the reasons
is that we've really glorified humidity. So humidity has become
this thing that is a very desirable trait that across cultures.

(01:23:16):
Being humble is something that we that we really regard highly,
but most of us have just taken it way too
far so we become self deprecating. We don't want to
accept compliments, We don't want to accept that perhaps it
was our hard work that led to this result. In fact,
we'll kind of bad it off as a team effort
or say that it was just luck. And I know that,

(01:23:39):
you know, for me definitely, and I know lots of
people listening will have grown up with the evil eye
in their culture, and the evil I really kind of
like ham it in this point, so the evil ie
really for me. My mum would always say that, you know,
don't appear too happy, too successful, too good, be humble always,
because if you're not humble, you will negativity, you will

(01:24:01):
attract jealousy, and bad things will happen to you. And
it would be to the point where, like, you know,
when I got a new house, you'd put like a
dirty shoe in the hallway, or she'd say to me,
you know, when I had my son Wolff, she'd say,
don't let anyone look at him, you know, don't let
anyone look at his face. Like it was a genuine
like fear of anything good you know of and not

(01:24:23):
having this negative impact on your life. And so subconsciously,
I think we can't. We start forming these kind of
like beliefs that like, oh God, like if I seem happy,
if I seem successful, if I celebrate myself in any way,
something bad is going to happen, or people are gonna
be jealous, or people just aren't gonna like me, And
so we start to really like stop celebrating ourselves because

(01:24:44):
of that. But another big reason is because we have
confused confidence with arrogance, and they are not the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
Tell me the difference between confidence and arrogance.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
So arrogant says I am the best, and confidence says
I'm working to be the best that I can be.
And I think that we all know what it's like
to be around somebody who is truly arrogant. You know,
they can be demeaning, they undermind you, they make you
feel small. It's not nice, and so of course you

(01:25:20):
can understand why we don't want to come across that way.
But what people don't understand is that you can be
confident in who you are without being arrogant. And in fact,
if you're worried about being arrogant, you're not because arrogant
people aren't that self aware. And I think that we
have like a collective responsibility to encourage each other to

(01:25:44):
step into our most confident selves. And we can do
that by giving each other permission to celebrate ourselves. You know,
I think that culturally we there is nothing more triggering
to people than confidence. A confident can really rub someone
up the wrong way, for sure, and we start saying
they're so up themselves, they think, who do they think

(01:26:07):
they are? We talk about each other in this way,
and so imagine you're hearing this in conversation. Then you're thinking, God,
I don't people saying about me, So I better not
seem too confident. I might better not accept praise. I
better not celebrate or say this good thing that happened
to me. I think, you know, we're doing a disservice
to each other, and so I really want to encourage
people to celebrate themselves. To be able to accept praise,

(01:26:30):
to be able to say thank you and someone compliments you,
to be able to like say online, if you know,
someden goold happen to your business, or you've got the promotion,
or tell your friends, and let's celebrate each other with
that and be like yes, because I personally feel so
empowered when I see a confident person. I love being
around confident people because I feel like it gives me

(01:26:51):
permission to be that way too. And so I think,
you know, it's something that is both a solo thing
that we need to do ourselves, but also something that
collects we can help each other with.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
Yeah, it's almost giving each other permission. Like I think
we all know the friend that you call when you're
having a bad day, But who's the friend that you
can call when you're having.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
A great day?

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Very different?

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Yeah, very different and talk about your biggest win. Yes,
And a lot of us feel uncomfortable saying to someone, hey,
I think I'm going to go chase this new business
I want to start because we're scared of friend's going
to say why are you doing that?

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
Like what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Like just be happy with what you have, Or your
friend says to you like, oh you know what, like
I just got promoted work, I want to throw a
party and whatever. And then you're scared to say that
because you're scared that someone else is going to feel
that their inferior, their life's not good. And there is
there is that in friendship, Like in friendship, you do care,
you don't want to make people feel infory. You don't
want to make people feel upset, And at the same time,

(01:27:48):
you've got to hold space for your celebration. And I
think if people could acknowledge every day something they got right,
that would help with that heckler and that in a
critic inside, because you're already doing the opposite anyway. Yes,
you're already coming up with a long list of everything
you got wrong. I know, when your head hits the
pillow every night, you're thinking, I should have done that

(01:28:08):
at work, should have done that with my kid, and
I shouldn't have said that to my partner. So you've
already got a list of things you're not doing. So
you already are self aware. And that's good because you
will be arrogant. But there's a need to be like,
you know what, I nailed that presentation at work today.
You know what, I actually was great in that meeting today.
You know I was really happy, how I held my
own in that difficult conversation with my friend partner, whatever.

(01:28:31):
Like what would you consider people? What can people do
practically every day or week or month. Yeah, talk to
me about celebrating yourself as a habit. Yes, because I
think we also wait for like the promotion, the wedding and.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Okay, so there's two things that I really love that
are in this step. So one of them is just
about celebrating the small winds. So, like you said, it's
like really noticing what are the small things that you
did today that you can be proud of yourself for
when you're struggling to think. One of the things that
I think people can always count on finding somewhere where
in your day. Did you react better than you would

(01:29:05):
have five years ago?

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
That's a great question, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
And I think sometimes I just think that is such
a win, Like do you know what, like a year
ago that would have really stressed me out. I can
sit here now and say two years ago, I would
have felt so nervous, And my win today is that
I'm here and I'm enjoying it rather than being nervous.
So that might be your win, your small win. Another
thing that I love is celebrating your everyday qualities. So

(01:29:31):
often when we think about what can we celebrate about ourselves,
we think about the things that we would put on
a CV. But I want you to not think about
those things. I want you to think about what are
the things that make you so unique to you and
the close people around you?

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
Is it that you're able to make light of situations
on a hard day. Is it that you are always
the one that's arranging, you know, everyone's meet up. Is
it that you're the one that gets everyone out of
the house on time? Is it that you're the one
that always has a handbag filled with things so that
when someone needs it, it's there. Are you the one
that always brings the snacks? Are you the one that

(01:30:08):
you know always gives really good advice to a friend
and offers them a new perspective? What are your everyday qualities?
And really, I want you to literally write down a
list of them and think of it like your own
personal CV, and recognize that all these amazing little things,
these nuances, these quirks, these all these things that you

(01:30:29):
have to offer what make you this multifaceted, magnificent, unique,
wonderful human.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
Yeah? I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
I love that As a practice, It's it's so needed.
I feel like if we all noticed, if we all
spend time noticing more good within ourselves, we'd notice more
good within other people. Yes, and we'd see more good
happen in our work life, family home, because we're just
training ourselves to see the good the challenges. When we've

(01:30:57):
trained ourselves to only see the bad, we see the
bad in ourselves. We see the bad and everyone else.
Some of the other days said this quote to me
that I loved, and they said, catch people doing things right,
catch people doing things right, because we always feel like,
oh I got you, I saw you steeling, I saw
you dying, I saw you. But we don't catch people
doing things right. And he said, when you catch people

(01:31:18):
doing things right, they'll do them again.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
I love, they'll do them more.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
And so we've got to.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Learn to catch people doing things right because they are.
There's we're doing things right all the time. Yeah, our
friends are doing things right, our partners are doing things right,
our kids are doing things right. But we never catch
them doing things on things right. We only catch people
doing things wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:31:34):
Yeah. You know, it's really funny because there's a I
can't remember the phenomenon that it is. I write about
it in the book, which is basically that our brains
assume that other people think the way that we do. Yes,
and so one thing I encourage people to do is
really watch when you're judging other people, and try to
really change that judgment to compassion, because if we do

(01:31:55):
it less about other people, we will assume people are
doing it less about us, and then we'll give ourselves
more freedom to be who we want to be.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Yeah, so well said everyone in the book is called Confidence.
Eight steps to knowing your Worth. We only touched on
a couple of steps today, but I want you to
read the book. Master your thoughts, act with intention, stop
trying to be liked by everybody, break free from comparison,
celebrate yourself, do hard things, be of service to others.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
Shop as your best self.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
Roxy as I've got to know you over the years,
and just I remember when I got that DM from
you in twenty twenty two and we connected and you
came on to write Manifest, which I know has helped
so many you know, millions of people around the world.
And then to see you write Confidence. But even just
the way you showed up today in your vulnerability and
in your confidence, to me, that's a sign that you're

(01:32:45):
someone who's doing the work and doing the hardest of it,
and a reminder to everyone who's listening.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
And watching that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
You know you're all on your own journey and the
judgment that we are scared of facing from everyone else
is really really tough, and because of that, we don't
often express who we truly are. And who we truly
are is this paradoxical, multifaceted, multi layered person. And when

(01:33:16):
we allow people to be all of themselves and all
of their experiences, we allow ourselves to be all of
ourselves and all of our experiences rather than thinking we
just have to be one thing. And to me, I'm
happy that you've shown us the real view of what
confidence looks like, which is it's hard, it's messy, it's complicated,

(01:33:37):
it's layered, and at the same time, it's something that
we can all have while we experience all those emotions.
So thank you, Roxy, thank you so much, and thank you.
Really excited for people to read the book and connect
with you. If you don't already follow Roxy on social media,
please follow her. But Roxy, anything I didn't ask you
that you really want to talk about anything that's on
your heart or a message that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
No, Honestly, I'm just firstly so grateful to you always
for just being so kind and genuine and giving me
the space to talk about it. And asking me such
different questions, and you know, I think it's you've pushed
me to practice what I preach in that you know,
I was afraid to talk about the badd staff in

(01:34:18):
case I was judged, misunderstood, not liked. And really, what
I tell people is, you know, you've got to do
what be authentically you. And you've kind of pushed me
out my comfort zone today in a good way. Not
you didn't, I mean, you didn't force me to do it.
You've given me the space to do it. And I'm

(01:34:40):
really grateful for that. And I just hope that anyone,
for anyone listening. I absolutely know that everybody listening, when
they were born into this world, they were born full
of self worth, full of confidence. But somewhere along the
way they learned one thing that they were not enough
as they were. And I am on a mission to

(01:35:06):
undo that damage so they can come back to that knowing.
And the last line of my book is this, true
confidence is knowing that your worth was never up for discussion.
And I really hope that every single one of you listening, watching,
comes to that realization so that you can truly unlock

(01:35:28):
your fullest potential. Life is really good on the other side.
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with
doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by
changing your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or
the curse to scan

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
Over a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers,
and their brains are very damna.

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