February 23, 2024 • 38 mins
Most of us have known of Rosa Parks since we were knee-high to a grasshopper, but how much do you actually know about Rosa Parks the person?
Katie and Yves discuss fictional depictions of the civil rights activist and speak with her niece, Sheila McCauley Keys to gain a new perspective on Ms. Rosa Parks.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You are class, Settle down, class.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We've been learning about civil rights activists this unit. Let's
see how much we've been paying attention. Show we which
NAACP activists sparked the Montgomery bus boycott by refusing to
give up her seat on a segregated bus.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Rosa Hugs.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good job class. Why were Rosa Parks and many other
civil rights activists arrested in nineteen fifty six after the boycotts?
Raise your hand if you know the answer, me.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Me because the Alabama government said blaycotts were illegal. That's right. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Last question, who was the first woman to lie in
honor at the US Capitol? Rosa Pikes? Great class, Now
you know all you need to know about Rosa Parks.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Most of us in the US have been learning about
Rosa Parks since elementary school or before.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yes, the Rosa Parks, the activists, the mother of the movement.
We learned about her act of defiance at least every
Black History Month, and it's always a great reminder how
history is made by ordinary people deciding that enough is enough.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
For sure, And while we've known the name Rosa Parks
and her contribution to the civil rights movement. For a
long time, most curricula limit Missus Parks to a few
trivia like facts, and sometimes those few facts we hear
about Rosa Parks are used as punchlines in movies and songs.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
But thankfully we can learn more about Missus Parks through
her own words and the memories of those who were
closest to her, her own family. We'll be talking to
her seventh niece, Miss Sheila Macaulay Keys.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves today's episode The Real Life
Rosa Parks.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Do you remember your first impression of Rosa Parks?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Uh. I don't know if I remember my very first impression,
but I'm pretty sure it was sometime around elementary school
or pre k or whatever. And I remember getting those
same things that so many other young students got, those
black and white contour drawings of all the civil rights leaders,
and then you would color them man with their crayon
(03:00):
are your colored pencils and put them up on the wall.
I remember hearing about her and the busboycott and her
refusing to give up her seat, and that's pretty much
where my early knowledge of Rosa Parks ended. I don't
remember watching any films about her. I don't remember talking
about her beyond Black History Month. It was pretty contained
(03:22):
experience of my knowledge of Rosa Parks at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I remember thinking that she was like so small and old.
But she's like in her forties when she did that,
so she really wasn't that old. And I also remember
my mind being blown that she was still alive because
they make the Civil rights movement seems like so far away,
so it's like feels like ancient history to a kid.
But I was like, wait, she's still alive. Yeah, she's
(03:48):
indeed trite.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, oh shit.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And I remember like seeing her in media a lot
beyond just the you know, Black History Month PSAs or
McDonald's Black three six five or whatever the case may be. Like,
I remember seeing her in just like random like pieces
of media that I was like, ugh, Like that barbershop
movie mm hmm, they're like making fun of Rose of
(04:13):
Parks in two thousand and two. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Refresh my memory?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So in the barbershop movie Cedric, the entertainer's character is
a loud, opinionated old barber who shares his offensive takes
with anyone who will listen, and I see where the
cast is participating in typical barbershop talk. Cedric's character takes wife,
said Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson, and Rosa Parks. Exactly,
Rosa Parks. He says, he's only the founder of the
(04:42):
modern civil rights movement.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
But because she saw on the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Book Edie, Yeah, what did folks say in response to that?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, the filmmakers in the studio apologize for the line
and said that you know, it was one character's opinion
and not the opinion shared by the film itself, the
filmmakers or MGM Picture. But even though they apologize, Jesse
Jackson still told the Associated Press that he would like
the producers to cut the offending lines from the home
video release, remember physical media. So Jackson said that there
(05:12):
are some heroes who are sacred to a people, and
these comments poisoned an otherwise funny movie. Referring to doctor
King and Missus Parks, he said, he could let the
little swipe at him, He could let that fly, but
you know, talking about doctor King and Missus Parks was
a step too far. And Cedric, the entertainer, the one
who said it in the movie, said he wasn't really
comfortable with saying the line, but he told USA Today
(05:34):
that quote, personally, I had some qualms with saying it,
But every situation has an instigator, someone who likes to
charge the room and say something controversial. That's what my
character does in the movie. So everyone was offended or
trying to distance themselves from it. Well not everyone. Ice Cube,
who also started in the movie, told USA Today, quote,
(05:55):
people are making too much of it. It's a funny
movie about a barbershop, and no one is exempt at
the barbershop. Just because we talk about people doesn't mean
we don't love these people too. End quote.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So what do you think about it? Or what did
you think at the time.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So at the time, I remember being a kid and
being confused why people were mad over a joke. So
I asked my mom and she said it was disrespectful,
Like she saw the joke as disrespectful too, especially because
Rosa Parks was still alive to hear them belitterally what
she did. But in the scene, Eddie, the character Cedric
is playing, is instantly rebuffed by everyone in the barbershop.
(06:30):
And I mean, I don't spend that much time in barbershops,
but they are known for being a place where most
topics are fair game, even civil rights icons. But I
do think the flattening of Rosa Park's story as just
the woman who sat down on a buss contributes to
these portrayals. It's like, we're all taught a few things
about this lady, but everyone is taught those few things,
(06:52):
so she's a cultural touchstone who anyone will understand if referenced.
Like if I were to make a joke about like
Mary Church, Terrelle or Dorothy Hye or Elli Baker, most
people wouldn't get it, but that's not the case for
Rosa Parks. So I think it makes it easier for
people to just like insert her in there, and it's
like everyone's gonna get this joke, whether they think it's
offensive or not.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I think the whole barbershops thing is interesting because it's
like one of those quote unquote safe spaces or like
protected spaces where that I think we generally, like culturally
make a lot of excuses for anything in anything goes situation.
But I like your point that, like there was pushback
(07:34):
in the scene. People did say, you know who Rosa
Parks is, stop playing she deserves respect, and so I
think it's a worthy conversation to have to say, like,
how are we respecting and how are we talking about
our elders. Because things that are portrayed in media, like
they are disseminated broadly, a lot of people see them.
(07:55):
Those are the things that are repeated over and over
in different people's minds. So from that perspective of like
what are we actually transmitting, then I think it matters.
But I do also think that it was a lot
more lighthearted and also like treat it with care than
a lot of people were making it seem.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Because I went to YouTube and looked at this scene
and the comments on the scene are crazy, Like people
are like, yeah, Rosa Parks, they do shit. She was
the first one to sit on the bus, that was
Claude Kelvin. If they didn't like her because she was duskied, pregnant,
team much oh people, the park's bitter fitted for colorism.
(08:35):
I'm like yeah, wow, yeah, And so I do think,
sure it's a joke, and like I don't think they
meant any harm by it, No, But we what twenty
two years later and I'm seeing these comments from people
on YouTube like kind of bashing Rosa Parks and like
in They're Dead Ass series, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, but that's not on the movie though, that's not
on the writers of that scene.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
But I do think it's interesting to see, like how
you said, like transmitting things like where does it go? Like, yeah,
how do How are people reacting to it? They're not
taking it as like a joke for real, They're like, yeah,
down with ros you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Know what that's really about. Though, that's funny. I didn't
see those comments. This is really about how people learned
about Claude at Covin and they felt like they were
right after that. They were like, I learned about Claude
at COVID. Oh there was a person before Rosa Parks. Now,
even though I learned about this from this article that
nine hundred thousand other people read, I am about to
spread the word.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, and I mean absolutely give claud it caving her
her props. Yeah, but it's like, you know, i'd be
Wells refused to get off of a train plusy versus Ferguson,
Like that's what that whole case is about, Like a
black guy refusing to like move. So it's like it's
okay that more than one person did this thing. It's
like we're building on We're building on it. So I
(09:56):
do think it's like a weird like pattern of using
Rosa Parks as a bunch of but hey, after the break,
we'll look at how other media portrays Rose Parks and
speak with her niece, Sheila McAuley keys about her auntie Rosa.
See you on the other side of this break. Okay,
(10:18):
So you know I have a complicated relationship with Tyler Perry.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Oh yes, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So you know in his movie Homecoming release on Netflix
in twenty twenty two. I wasn't rushing to see it,
but I watched it one day just to see what
Tyler was talking about or whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Okay, fair enough, And to.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
My surprise, like I didn't see this promoted anywhere, I
didn't see people talking about it online. But there was
a very superfluous flashback scene where Medea inserts herself in
the civil rights movement the day Rosa Parks decides to
not move from her seat on the bus.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Madea inserts herself how.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Basically, she says, Rosa Parks ran off with her man
and was on the bus with him. Give a town.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
She says, you know why Rose didn't get off that bus.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
People think she was trying to have black people, but
that is not at all what happened. All the reason
Rosa didn't get off that bus, she din won't get
our ass whooped because she has stole my man. That's
an interesting creative choice, to say the least. So were
people up in arms about it like they were about
barber shop.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Not at all. Like I said, I didn't see anything
about it. I didn't even know the movie had it
in there until I watched it well after it was released,
because nobody was talking about it. Tyler Perry told Variety
that he actually did this joke in front of Missus
Parks during Diary of a Mad Black Woman in Detroit,
which was one of his most famous plays, and she
said she thought it was funny. Really well, you know,
(11:43):
according to Tager Perry.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Right now, is that a trusted source or is it
a bias to her?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know, he might have put it a little extra
on it, but he said, initially I was nervous. I
was like, oh Lord, what's she going to say? Her
caregiver was someone who worked with Sicily type and for
many years, and they would call me up and tell
me how much she enjoyed it, how much it made
her laugh.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It's definitely in the same spirit as the barbershop joke.
So I'm curious about why the response is different. What
do you think, Well, I do wonder about the reach
of the movies, Like movies work a lot different now
than they did in barbershops time, Like there were more
cultural touch points, and Barbershop was definitely one of those movies,
especially for black culture, and especially because it was about
(12:27):
a barber shop. Like, Oh, black people love talking about
the camaraderie of the barbershop and how it's just for us,
and how the conversations that happened there don't happen anywhere else,
Like that is a long standing thing that Black people
love to talk about. So I wonder if the whole
the the culture around movies being cultural touch points, things
that people gathered around at a single moment in time
(12:49):
that like it was back in that day versus how
it is now, Like it's a lot more dispersed. The
way we watch films, we don't watch them at the
same time, the conversations that happened around it happened in
so many different places that I think it's harder to
distill it down to a single point, so I think
that might have something to do with it. But I
(13:11):
also think that I don't know, maybe there's something about
context to where the comment that subject the entertainer's character
made in barber Shop was more pointed and the language
was a lot clearer, like who is Rosa Parks versus
what Medea said was more like this created fantastical fantasy
(13:34):
set within a part of the movie that was clearly
about like a situation that was more fictional versus something
that felt like more nonfictional.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, I can see that. Also, it's interesting that Tyler
Perry said that he did the joke in Diary and
Mad Black Woman, like the play version, but took it
out of Diary of a Mad Black Woman, the movie version,
because when the movie came out, I think it might
have been a similar time in movies closer to Barbershop.
(14:10):
But I think it was like a calculated decision, Like
I saw what happened with barber Shop, I'm going to
just like avoid all this smoke and like put it
in like years and years later and then kind of
like preemptively being on on the record saying Missus Parks
heard this joke and she thought it was funny, Like
you know what I'm saying. Also, it was twenty twenty two,
(14:32):
the reckoning, yeah, not even the reckoning like we were
going to ask Molly wopped. Oh yeah, ye yeah, you know, COVID.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Was going on.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
The racial working was slowing down a little bit. But
I think people were just like fucking tired.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
We were also grasping at straws for things that we
could enjoy. Yeah, and media.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So it's like, okay, whatever, I think.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So what you're saying is we're all very disenchanted. Yeah,
we're all cynical at this point. Yeah, we have tie,
we don't energy. Eggs are seventeen dollars? Are we really
going to fight chickens?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
And also she's no longer alive at this point too,
So I think that was a big part of the
thing in two thousand and two, is like you talk
about this old woman who you should like have like
a lot of respect for and be showing some reverence towards.
You make a front of her say she ain't do nothing,
she can hear you. So I think that that also
might play a part into it too. I'm not saying
(15:29):
there were no positive depictions of Rosa Parks beyond our textbooks.
We've got the two thousand and two biopics Starrying Angela
Bassett so came out the same year as Barbershop, and
then twenty years later The Rebellious Life of Missus Rosa Parks,
which is a documentary that came out in twenty joy two,
so that's actually the same year as Homecoming of the
Tyler Perry movie.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She also wrote an autobiography titled Rosa Parks My Story.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Indeed, there's so much said and written about Roads of Parks,
but I was interested in knowing more about her as
not the legendary civil rights that she is now, but
also as a person, what she did beyond the movement,
which I think sometimes gets overlooked. In twenty sixteen, Rosa
Parks's nieces and nephews released the book Our Auntie Rosa.
(16:12):
The Family of Rosa Parks Remembers her Life and Lessons.
It's full of beautiful personal memories they had with their
aunt and the lessons they learned from her.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
My name is Sheila McAuley Keys. I am the seventh
niece of Rosa McAuley Parks. My father was her brother
and the only sibling. I am an author, and Rosa
Parks was my aunt and also my mother.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
After the break, we'll speak with Sheila McCauley Keys, Rosa
Parks's seventh niece and the author of the book Our
Auntie Rosa.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
We saw the book that you and your brothers and
sisters and nieces and nephews wrote, and we were really
excited to read it and learn more about Rosa Parks
from y'all's perspective. And I was wondering, with so many
books written about your aunt, why was it important for
your family to write a book from a more personal perspective.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The reason why it was important for us to come
from our perspective because we were her brother's children and
we wanted the public to know of our experiences with
our aunt. She basically raised us. Most of of us
were grown already, but my parents, her brother, Sylvester McCauley,
(17:42):
died in nineteen seventy seven, her husband died in seventy seven.
My grandmother died soon thereafter. That's Rosa Parks's mom, and
then my mother died in eighty two. So she was
a matriarch. She became the matriarch of our family, and
she was the glue that held us all together. Believe
(18:03):
it or not, there was thirteen of us, and she
was so strong. She went on about giving us away
at weddings, showing up to high school graduation. She showed
up to my son's middle school graduation. She was everywhere.
Anytime there was a picnic, she was there. She arranged
family reunions, She was the matriarch. She became the leader
(18:26):
of our family, the Macaulay family, after all the other
adults had passed on, had transitioned. So we felt it
necessary because it was a lot going on in two
thousand and five. When she passed, we were left out
of a lot of any type of actual arrangements. We
(18:50):
weren't taken into consideration the things she told us. This
is what I wanted my funeral. I don't want people
talking in me, you know. But the funeral was of
epic proportions. I would say it was like seven and
a half hours long, and every political figure you could
imagine was there, and it was you know, it was
(19:12):
okay because everyone wanted to pay their respects, you know.
So I understood that. But then we decided to write.
You know, it helped us to grieve, That's what it did.
It was a grieving process. Our young people really need
to know her, and so that's what I look at
it as they need to know what a treasure she was.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I was hoping if you could read from page twenty eight,
you're talking about when your father died and like Auntie
Rosa like stepping into that more parental figure cryay.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It showed in the manner that she parented us naturally
without having experienced parenthood for herself at all. Thinking about
it now, we realize that nearly thirty years of bonding
with Auntie Rosa after her brother passed was an extension
(20:09):
of the bond she had first formed with him during
their childhood. Her devotion to all of us grew from
one of the most important relationships she had ever had.
Oh that was something to read. I forgot about that one.
When father died of stomach cancer in nineteen seventy seven,
(20:31):
Auntie Rosa said she would always be grateful to our
mother because she was by father's side every day. We
had never seen Auntie Rosa cry until she spoke at
his funeral. Auntie Rosa probably never expected brother to be
(20:53):
the first of them to die. Some of us were
still teenagers, and she seemed to feel responsible for us
even more after he was gone. It showed in so
many of the ways that she became a bigger presence
in our lives.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
It's a really beautiful tribute, and reading it, I was like, Wow,
everyone should do this for their family member because it's
such a rich text. It's a document that would be
very hard to get otherwise. It's really touching seeing you
and Rhea write that about Missus Parks and her stepping
up to be that figure for y'all when your father died,
(21:36):
and it was nice to hear about y'all living in
the house together and just be a really tight knit
community and tight knit family. Did you discover anything new
about her while you were writing this book.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
The only thing I discovered was what deep love she
had for her husband and the love letters that they
had written back and forth to each other. I discovered that,
and I said, while she was a human, you know,
because I always saw she walked on water and she
floated through the room, and she was Auntie Rosa. The
(22:08):
thing that I learned more about her personal side with
her own husband uncle Parks was a great guy. He's
a great, great person. He was a sweet man. So
that when I learned that about how they really did
(22:29):
love each other. They wrote those love letters back and forth,
I was like, whoa they they were really married. I'm
so silly. I was just a kid, and I didn't
really know they had she she really had a life
with this man. And I did see her her voice
wavered when she called my mother and said Park said died.
(22:52):
She told called my mother and said Parks pasted the day,
and her voice shook. I was like, oh, my goodness,
you know, and I found that she had feelings, and
I thought, you know, she was rough and tough. She
rosa Parks. She got the powerful fists up and stuff.
She was a beautiful lady. That's what she was, beautiful
(23:17):
lady of faith. So I just found out more on
the personal side, she was just like everybody else. I
really wish I think I would have treated her differently.
I treated her like Auntie Rosa. I think I would
have tried to have more open conversations with her. But
(23:42):
my aunt was like this. I wasn't her contemporary, I
wasn't her age, so she was never going to speak
to me the way that she would speak to my father,
for instance. So my mother, they were her contemporaries, not me.
I was a little girl. I would never be on
that level for her to speak to me about any
(24:04):
thing that was going on with her, you know, anything personal.
I wasn't the one, so I don't think any of
her nieces and nephews were. And this is how Auntie
Rosa was. If you had wanted to ask her a question,
you could ask her the question. But if you never
asked her, she was volunteering no information. She was not
messy boots.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
I think it's funny already say like she wouldn't speak
to her nieces and nephews like in that gossip you way,
and in the book you and your brothers and sisters
kind of talk about how she didn't really like speaking
about the incident on the bus. Do you wish she
would have spoken about her role in the civil rights
movement more? And could you give us your recollection of
(24:46):
that bus incident? How she did tell y'all about it.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
She told my sister Shirley about it because my Shirley
was writing a paper. My sister Shirley, she was writing
a paper at school and she asked her about it.
I never asked her, Hey, what happened on that bus.
But when she told my sister what happened, it was
different from what the media was portraying. And my sister asked, well,
(25:12):
why didn't you ever say anything. She said, well, I
knew what happened. I just ran with that narrative, and
that was what they wanted to portray, that the bus
was crowded, and it wasn't you know. It was a
lot of things, a lot of tensions and in the South.
But she had said that it's this bus driver. He
knew she worked for the NAACP, and he was just
(25:35):
a meano, nasty bus driver and he would have all
the color people they called him. At the time. We
were colored, we would go to the front, pay your fare,
and then get off and go to the back to
get on. When Auntie Rosa would do that, he would
just pull off and leave. So he had an attitude
towards her anyway. He didn't like nobody that was colored.
(25:55):
He just hated them. And he told her to move
when she really didn't have to get up and move,
and the other colored people on the bus did get up.
I think two other people did, and she just said, no,
it's plenty of spase, I'm not doing that. And uh,
he said, well, I'm gonna call the police. She said, okay,
(26:17):
oh yeah, what what the heck? But she had been
training for this day. This day was gonna come. It
came from many other people before, and some of them
they took away and you never saw him again. I
think Claude Covin. They took her away and she lived.
I think she was a teenager when they took her away.
(26:40):
She wouldn't move. There were other people that did the
same thing Auntie Rosa did, but they were NAACP was
looking for somebody that will be I think acceptable by
the country, and Auntie Rosa, though had been training for this,
she just didn't say, hey, I'm not moving today. She
(27:00):
had actually trained to do what she did, and she
just said I'm not doing it because she had had enough.
So people didn't know back in those days or even now,
that could get you your head blown off, and so
the amount of courage it took for her to say no,
I'm not doing it, it took a lot because he
(27:23):
could have just drew his gun and shot her, and
that would have been the end of her. They want
you to comply, comply, do what I say, do what
I say, like get out here. You're a human just
like me, how to do what you say? I was
glad that she did that because it changed our world.
It changed the world we live in and the whole planet.
(27:44):
It changed everything the way people believe they ought not
be treated and they stand up. And that's what we
need more of today. We need people to stand up
and say no, We're not taking this anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And do you think thats not talking to y'all until
you specifically asked her questions about things, do you think
that that was part of her personality or do you
think any part of that came from her doing movement
work and knowing that certain things had to stay close
to the chest.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
She was very stealthy, I'll tell you that. And because
they would have these secret meetings and she would not
tell people anything. And my parents they did the same thing,
and I'm like, what are they doing. I think that
(28:35):
the adults in our family did not include us kids
and a lot of that business, and I think it
was a form of protecting us. And also I think
Auntie Rosa she did a lot of investigative work about
some of the women down in Montgomery that were raped attacked,
(28:55):
and she would you get all this information, and she
knew who to talk to and who not to talk
to you about what she found out. And I think
that helped her to stay alive, you know, because if
you told them wrong person and they went running back,
it's just, you know, too much chatter. So she I
think learned by habit doing that, not volunteering any information
(29:17):
it wasn't necessary.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I heard that Auntie Rosa was a great cook, and
I was wondering, what your favorite recipe she made it.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I just did a interview with somebody about It was
some kind of pancakes, the peanut butter featherlight pancakes. It
was a recipe she had written down on the bag.
And the lady called me because she made those pancakes
and they were so good. Those weren't good pancakes, the
peanut butter feather lights, and you had to cook them
(29:47):
really slow or they would burn. And Auntie Rosa would
take notes, like when she was writing up her little recipe,
she would take notes if you turned the heat up
too high and she would write that down. It will burn.
Don't we turned it up? So she tell you, but
a pinch of salt, a little dash of sugar, whatever,
it's Southern way of cookie. They knew what a pinch was.
(30:10):
I still don't know. Offer the whole box of salt
and be making a miss. But she said a pitch.
She meant the pitch to season. And those pancakes are good.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Those are the kinds of things that people would never
know or never think about when they think about your
auntie Rosa. It's like we have this really a lot
of the times, we have so many misconceptions and all
this misinformation about people who become larger than life in
people's minds who didn't know Rosa Parks. And this happens
with so many civil rights leaders that live in so
(30:40):
many people's minds, as these figures that we see on
television all the time and we hear their quotes, but
we don't fully know the real them. So it's really
nice to hear those parts of them that really bring
more of their humanity in. But I do think because
we don't know their full selves, there are so many
times when we used their names in ways that for instance,
(31:03):
in media and in storytelling, there are so many times
that Rosa Parks's name has been used where they co
opt her legacy to tell their stories. So I was
wondering if you or your family ever think about or
have ever thought about the ways that people used their
auntie's name and film in ways that have to do
(31:24):
with the ways that they think about your auntie's legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Oh yeah, and also in real life, movies are make believe.
On heard many times where I think it was something
in barbershop Rose Parts ain't doing nothing, you know, just
ran off. And then I've worked with people that even
said to me it didn't know I was related to
Rose parents. Oh, Rosea pars ain't doing nothing. She didn't
(31:48):
do nothing. I was like, well, the thing that she did, whatever,
her nothing, is allowing you to sit exactly where you are.
And I don't see a white's only sign, you know,
in any restaurant now, So what do you mean she
didn't do nothing? She affected a change that you didn't
or nobody that you know did. So when people say that,
(32:10):
it doesn't offend me because I know movies are make believe.
Even Tyler Perry when he used Auntie Bros's name, it
was comedy comedy. It was funny, and I laughed at
it because it was funny. I don't take offense, you know,
I don't take offense to these scenes because I know
a movie is made to affect some type of emotion
(32:33):
in you, and basically Tyler Perry just made me laugh.
But I think the Barbershop movie, a few people got
mad about that, but it's okay, it's a movie. What
the heck. They don't know her, They didn't know her.
They you know, everything she did was for them, everything
for the people making the movie, everything she did, and
(32:53):
they know that. In real life, I think she did
something that moved the whole world.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
But I think that'll also be part of what your
book helps with it being a teaching tool, like you said,
of people being able to see a fuller version of
who she actually was and what her character was.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Like this book, you know, I could give this to
my grandkids. What happened when my children got a chance
to know her because my mother and my father had passed,
So my two sons, they held her hand, they sat
with her, they got a chance to know her. But
then my grandkids didn't. So then my sons tell his
(33:29):
son's stories about her, and all I offer is the book.
We can always open that and we can go to
you know, certain sections to see what she would do
if this or that came up. There's an answer or
you know, some type of remedy that she would give us.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
How do you think your Auntie Rosa would have felt
about the book if she read it?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Well, what's not to like? I think she would like
it because it was well thought out, it was a heartfelt,
so I think she would like it. School children could
even read it and take from it write a report
if they want, and I think she would have liked
that idea of it being an educational tool. If need me.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Now it's time for roll credits, the segment where we
give credit to a person, place, or thing that we
encountered during the week, and we have our guests, Miss
Sheila joining us. But first, Eves, who are what would
you like to give credit to?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I like to give credit to Misch Sheila and all
of your family members that wrote this book and that
we're willing to share their memories of Rosa Parks because
without y'all, we wouldn't know any of this, and I
think it's just incredibly enlightening to have this information. It
helps me understand people and history that are very important
(34:52):
to us, that pave the way for us to literally
exist in this country. To know those things about them
is a blessing, It's a privileg and I would just
like to give credit to y'all because I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
How about you, Miss Sheila, Who or what would you
like to give credit to?
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I would like to give credit to young man for
bringing the descendants together in Washington, DC. His name is
Joshua Jordanson, and he came up with this idea back
in twenty eighteen to bring all the descendants together because
without the descendants, without the ancestors, rather, we just wouldn't
(35:35):
be here without Harriet Tubman. For sure, a lot of
us wouldn't be here without my Auntie Rosa. You know,
a lot of us wouldn't be here. So I'm giving
credit to him this week for pulling together Frederick Douglas,
Ida b Wells, Martin, Luther King, Malcolm X. A lot
(35:58):
of the descendants came together and met, shook hands and
hug and fellowship. And I thought that was really a
cool thing because now we can forge something out of that.
We're going to push forward for our communities, and that
brought about some ideas for our heads. So I thought
(36:18):
that was the coolest thing. So I'm thankful for that
person for coming up with that idea.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yes, that's very powerful. I'm I'm super excited to see
what comes out of it, and I'm looking forward to
y'all for y'all to have that experience every year. Because
he said y'all are thinking about doing it and laid
out I think that would be really cool. I would
like to give credit to breaking the rules, and obviously
that's inspired by Rosa Parks. But as Michila said, we
(36:48):
should take some of the lessons that we learned from
our ancestors like Rosa Parks and apply them today. And
today we're seeing a lot of strange things going on
and a lot of rules that just don't make sense.
And we know they don't make sense. They are insulting
to our common sense. Yet a lot of times, just
because it is a rule, we decide to follow it.
(37:11):
So I want to encourage people, if it is a
stupid rule, do not follow it and make it known
that you're not about that. You're not going to just
go with whatever someone says especially when they mean you
know good, I'm gonna give credit to breaking the rules.
Thanks so much, Mischila for joining us. You will and
(37:33):
we will see y'all next week.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Bye on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather
Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and
Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
Follow us on Instagram at on Theme Show. You can
also send us an email at hello at on Theme
(37:56):
dot show. Head to on Themet Show to check out
the show notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
You are class, Settle down, class.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We've been learning about civil rights activists this unit. Let's
see how much we've been paying attention. Show we which
NAACP activists sparked the Montgomery bus boycott by refusing to
give up her seat on a segregated bus.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Rosa Hugs.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good job class. Why were Rosa Parks and many other
civil rights activists arrested in nineteen fifty six after the boycotts?
Raise your hand if you know the answer, me.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Me because the Alabama government said blaycotts were illegal. That's right. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Last question, who was the first woman to lie in
honor at the US Capitol? Rosa Pikes? Great class, Now
you know all you need to know about Rosa Parks.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Most of us in the US have been learning about
Rosa Parks since elementary school or before.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yes, the Rosa Parks, the activists, the mother of the movement.
We learned about her act of defiance at least every
Black History Month, and it's always a great reminder how
history is made by ordinary people deciding that enough is enough.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
For sure, And while we've known the name Rosa Parks
and her contribution to the civil rights movement. For a
long time, most curricula limit Missus Parks to a few
trivia like facts, and sometimes those few facts we hear
about Rosa Parks are used as punchlines in movies and songs.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
But thankfully we can learn more about Missus Parks through
her own words and the memories of those who were
closest to her, her own family. We'll be talking to
her seventh niece, Miss Sheila Macaulay Keys.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves today's episode The Real Life
Rosa Parks.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Do you remember your first impression of Rosa Parks?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Uh. I don't know if I remember my very first impression,
but I'm pretty sure it was sometime around elementary school
or pre k or whatever. And I remember getting those
same things that so many other young students got, those
black and white contour drawings of all the civil rights leaders,
and then you would color them man with their crayon
(03:00):
are your colored pencils and put them up on the wall.
I remember hearing about her and the busboycott and her
refusing to give up her seat, and that's pretty much
where my early knowledge of Rosa Parks ended. I don't
remember watching any films about her. I don't remember talking
about her beyond Black History Month. It was pretty contained
(03:22):
experience of my knowledge of Rosa Parks at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I remember thinking that she was like so small and old.
But she's like in her forties when she did that,
so she really wasn't that old. And I also remember
my mind being blown that she was still alive because
they make the Civil rights movement seems like so far away,
so it's like feels like ancient history to a kid.
But I was like, wait, she's still alive. Yeah, she's
(03:48):
indeed trite.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, oh shit.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And I remember like seeing her in media a lot
beyond just the you know, Black History Month PSAs or
McDonald's Black three six five or whatever the case may be. Like,
I remember seeing her in just like random like pieces
of media that I was like, ugh, Like that barbershop
movie mm hmm, they're like making fun of Rose of
(04:13):
Parks in two thousand and two. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Refresh my memory?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So in the barbershop movie Cedric, the entertainer's character is
a loud, opinionated old barber who shares his offensive takes
with anyone who will listen, and I see where the
cast is participating in typical barbershop talk. Cedric's character takes wife,
said Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson, and Rosa Parks. Exactly,
Rosa Parks. He says, he's only the founder of the
(04:42):
modern civil rights movement.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
But because she saw on the.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Book Edie, Yeah, what did folks say in response to that?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well, the filmmakers in the studio apologize for the line
and said that you know, it was one character's opinion
and not the opinion shared by the film itself, the
filmmakers or MGM Picture. But even though they apologize, Jesse
Jackson still told the Associated Press that he would like
the producers to cut the offending lines from the home
video release, remember physical media. So Jackson said that there
(05:12):
are some heroes who are sacred to a people, and
these comments poisoned an otherwise funny movie. Referring to doctor
King and Missus Parks, he said, he could let the
little swipe at him, He could let that fly, but
you know, talking about doctor King and Missus Parks was
a step too far. And Cedric, the entertainer, the one
who said it in the movie, said he wasn't really
comfortable with saying the line, but he told USA Today
(05:34):
that quote, personally, I had some qualms with saying it,
But every situation has an instigator, someone who likes to
charge the room and say something controversial. That's what my
character does in the movie. So everyone was offended or
trying to distance themselves from it. Well not everyone. Ice Cube,
who also started in the movie, told USA Today, quote,
(05:55):
people are making too much of it. It's a funny
movie about a barbershop, and no one is exempt at
the barbershop. Just because we talk about people doesn't mean
we don't love these people too. End quote.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So what do you think about it? Or what did
you think at the time.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
So at the time, I remember being a kid and
being confused why people were mad over a joke. So
I asked my mom and she said it was disrespectful,
Like she saw the joke as disrespectful too, especially because
Rosa Parks was still alive to hear them belitterally what
she did. But in the scene, Eddie, the character Cedric
is playing, is instantly rebuffed by everyone in the barbershop.
(06:30):
And I mean, I don't spend that much time in barbershops,
but they are known for being a place where most
topics are fair game, even civil rights icons. But I
do think the flattening of Rosa Park's story as just
the woman who sat down on a buss contributes to
these portrayals. It's like, we're all taught a few things
about this lady, but everyone is taught those few things,
(06:52):
so she's a cultural touchstone who anyone will understand if referenced.
Like if I were to make a joke about like
Mary Church, Terrelle or Dorothy Hye or Elli Baker, most
people wouldn't get it, but that's not the case for
Rosa Parks. So I think it makes it easier for
people to just like insert her in there, and it's
like everyone's gonna get this joke, whether they think it's
offensive or not.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I think the whole barbershops thing is interesting because it's
like one of those quote unquote safe spaces or like
protected spaces where that I think we generally, like culturally
make a lot of excuses for anything in anything goes situation.
But I like your point that, like there was pushback
(07:34):
in the scene. People did say, you know who Rosa
Parks is, stop playing she deserves respect, and so I
think it's a worthy conversation to have to say, like,
how are we respecting and how are we talking about
our elders. Because things that are portrayed in media, like
they are disseminated broadly, a lot of people see them.
(07:55):
Those are the things that are repeated over and over
in different people's minds. So from that perspective of like
what are we actually transmitting, then I think it matters.
But I do also think that it was a lot
more lighthearted and also like treat it with care than
a lot of people were making it seem.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Because I went to YouTube and looked at this scene
and the comments on the scene are crazy, Like people
are like, yeah, Rosa Parks, they do shit. She was
the first one to sit on the bus, that was
Claude Kelvin. If they didn't like her because she was duskied, pregnant,
team much oh people, the park's bitter fitted for colorism.
(08:35):
I'm like yeah, wow, yeah, And so I do think,
sure it's a joke, and like I don't think they
meant any harm by it, No, But we what twenty
two years later and I'm seeing these comments from people
on YouTube like kind of bashing Rosa Parks and like
in They're Dead Ass series, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, but that's not on the movie though, that's not
on the writers of that scene.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
But I do think it's interesting to see, like how
you said, like transmitting things like where does it go? Like, yeah,
how do How are people reacting to it? They're not
taking it as like a joke for real, They're like, yeah,
down with ros you.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Know what that's really about. Though, that's funny. I didn't
see those comments. This is really about how people learned
about Claude at Covin and they felt like they were
right after that. They were like, I learned about Claude
at COVID. Oh there was a person before Rosa Parks. Now,
even though I learned about this from this article that
nine hundred thousand other people read, I am about to
spread the word.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, and I mean absolutely give claud it caving her
her props. Yeah, but it's like, you know, i'd be
Wells refused to get off of a train plusy versus Ferguson,
Like that's what that whole case is about, Like a
black guy refusing to like move. So it's like it's
okay that more than one person did this thing. It's
like we're building on We're building on it. So I
(09:56):
do think it's like a weird like pattern of using
Rosa Parks as a bunch of but hey, after the break,
we'll look at how other media portrays Rose Parks and
speak with her niece, Sheila McAuley keys about her auntie Rosa.
See you on the other side of this break. Okay,
(10:18):
So you know I have a complicated relationship with Tyler Perry.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Oh yes, I know.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So you know in his movie Homecoming release on Netflix
in twenty twenty two. I wasn't rushing to see it,
but I watched it one day just to see what
Tyler was talking about or whatever.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Okay, fair enough, And to.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
My surprise, like I didn't see this promoted anywhere, I
didn't see people talking about it online. But there was
a very superfluous flashback scene where Medea inserts herself in
the civil rights movement the day Rosa Parks decides to
not move from her seat on the bus.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Madea inserts herself how.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Basically, she says, Rosa Parks ran off with her man
and was on the bus with him. Give a town.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
She says, you know why Rose didn't get off that bus.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
People think she was trying to have black people, but
that is not at all what happened. All the reason
Rosa didn't get off that bus, she din won't get
our ass whooped because she has stole my man. That's
an interesting creative choice, to say the least. So were
people up in arms about it like they were about
barber shop.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Not at all. Like I said, I didn't see anything
about it. I didn't even know the movie had it
in there until I watched it well after it was released,
because nobody was talking about it. Tyler Perry told Variety
that he actually did this joke in front of Missus
Parks during Diary of a Mad Black Woman in Detroit,
which was one of his most famous plays, and she
said she thought it was funny. Really well, you know,
(11:43):
according to Tager Perry.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Right now, is that a trusted source or is it
a bias to her?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You know, he might have put it a little extra
on it, but he said, initially I was nervous. I
was like, oh Lord, what's she going to say? Her
caregiver was someone who worked with Sicily type and for
many years, and they would call me up and tell
me how much she enjoyed it, how much it made
her laugh.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
It's definitely in the same spirit as the barbershop joke.
So I'm curious about why the response is different. What
do you think, Well, I do wonder about the reach
of the movies, Like movies work a lot different now
than they did in barbershops time, Like there were more
cultural touch points, and Barbershop was definitely one of those movies,
especially for black culture, and especially because it was about
(12:27):
a barber shop. Like, Oh, black people love talking about
the camaraderie of the barbershop and how it's just for us,
and how the conversations that happened there don't happen anywhere else,
Like that is a long standing thing that Black people
love to talk about. So I wonder if the whole
the the culture around movies being cultural touch points, things
that people gathered around at a single moment in time
(12:49):
that like it was back in that day versus how
it is now, Like it's a lot more dispersed. The
way we watch films, we don't watch them at the
same time, the conversations that happened around it happened in
so many different places that I think it's harder to
distill it down to a single point, so I think
that might have something to do with it. But I
(13:11):
also think that I don't know, maybe there's something about
context to where the comment that subject the entertainer's character
made in barber Shop was more pointed and the language
was a lot clearer, like who is Rosa Parks versus
what Medea said was more like this created fantastical fantasy
(13:34):
set within a part of the movie that was clearly
about like a situation that was more fictional versus something
that felt like more nonfictional.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, I can see that. Also, it's interesting that Tyler
Perry said that he did the joke in Diary and
Mad Black Woman, like the play version, but took it
out of Diary of a Mad Black Woman, the movie version,
because when the movie came out, I think it might
have been a similar time in movies closer to Barbershop.
(14:10):
But I think it was like a calculated decision, Like
I saw what happened with barber Shop, I'm going to
just like avoid all this smoke and like put it
in like years and years later and then kind of
like preemptively being on on the record saying Missus Parks
heard this joke and she thought it was funny, Like
you know what I'm saying. Also, it was twenty twenty two,
(14:32):
the reckoning, yeah, not even the reckoning like we were
going to ask Molly wopped. Oh yeah, ye yeah, you know, COVID.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Was going on.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
The racial working was slowing down a little bit. But
I think people were just like fucking tired.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
We were also grasping at straws for things that we
could enjoy. Yeah, and media.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
So it's like, okay, whatever, I think.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So what you're saying is we're all very disenchanted. Yeah,
we're all cynical at this point. Yeah, we have tie,
we don't energy. Eggs are seventeen dollars? Are we really
going to fight chickens?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
And also she's no longer alive at this point too,
So I think that was a big part of the
thing in two thousand and two, is like you talk
about this old woman who you should like have like
a lot of respect for and be showing some reverence towards.
You make a front of her say she ain't do nothing,
she can hear you. So I think that that also
might play a part into it too. I'm not saying
(15:29):
there were no positive depictions of Rosa Parks beyond our textbooks.
We've got the two thousand and two biopics Starrying Angela
Bassett so came out the same year as Barbershop, and
then twenty years later The Rebellious Life of Missus Rosa Parks,
which is a documentary that came out in twenty joy two,
so that's actually the same year as Homecoming of the
Tyler Perry movie.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She also wrote an autobiography titled Rosa Parks My Story.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Indeed, there's so much said and written about Roads of Parks,
but I was interested in knowing more about her as
not the legendary civil rights that she is now, but
also as a person, what she did beyond the movement,
which I think sometimes gets overlooked. In twenty sixteen, Rosa
Parks's nieces and nephews released the book Our Auntie Rosa.
(16:12):
The Family of Rosa Parks Remembers her Life and Lessons.
It's full of beautiful personal memories they had with their
aunt and the lessons they learned from her.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
My name is Sheila McAuley Keys. I am the seventh
niece of Rosa McAuley Parks. My father was her brother
and the only sibling. I am an author, and Rosa
Parks was my aunt and also my mother.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
After the break, we'll speak with Sheila McCauley Keys, Rosa
Parks's seventh niece and the author of the book Our
Auntie Rosa.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
We saw the book that you and your brothers and
sisters and nieces and nephews wrote, and we were really
excited to read it and learn more about Rosa Parks
from y'all's perspective. And I was wondering, with so many
books written about your aunt, why was it important for
your family to write a book from a more personal perspective.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The reason why it was important for us to come
from our perspective because we were her brother's children and
we wanted the public to know of our experiences with
our aunt. She basically raised us. Most of of us
were grown already, but my parents, her brother, Sylvester McCauley,
(17:42):
died in nineteen seventy seven, her husband died in seventy seven.
My grandmother died soon thereafter. That's Rosa Parks's mom, and
then my mother died in eighty two. So she was
a matriarch. She became the matriarch of our family, and
she was the glue that held us all together. Believe
(18:03):
it or not, there was thirteen of us, and she
was so strong. She went on about giving us away
at weddings, showing up to high school graduation. She showed
up to my son's middle school graduation. She was everywhere.
Anytime there was a picnic, she was there. She arranged
family reunions, She was the matriarch. She became the leader
(18:26):
of our family, the Macaulay family, after all the other
adults had passed on, had transitioned. So we felt it
necessary because it was a lot going on in two
thousand and five. When she passed, we were left out
of a lot of any type of actual arrangements. We
(18:50):
weren't taken into consideration the things she told us. This
is what I wanted my funeral. I don't want people
talking in me, you know. But the funeral was of
epic proportions. I would say it was like seven and
a half hours long, and every political figure you could
imagine was there, and it was you know, it was
(19:12):
okay because everyone wanted to pay their respects, you know.
So I understood that. But then we decided to write.
You know, it helped us to grieve, That's what it did.
It was a grieving process. Our young people really need
to know her, and so that's what I look at
it as they need to know what a treasure she was.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I was hoping if you could read from page twenty eight,
you're talking about when your father died and like Auntie
Rosa like stepping into that more parental figure cryay.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It showed in the manner that she parented us naturally
without having experienced parenthood for herself at all. Thinking about
it now, we realize that nearly thirty years of bonding
with Auntie Rosa after her brother passed was an extension
(20:09):
of the bond she had first formed with him during
their childhood. Her devotion to all of us grew from
one of the most important relationships she had ever had.
Oh that was something to read. I forgot about that one.
When father died of stomach cancer in nineteen seventy seven,
(20:31):
Auntie Rosa said she would always be grateful to our
mother because she was by father's side every day. We
had never seen Auntie Rosa cry until she spoke at
his funeral. Auntie Rosa probably never expected brother to be
(20:53):
the first of them to die. Some of us were
still teenagers, and she seemed to feel responsible for us
even more after he was gone. It showed in so
many of the ways that she became a bigger presence
in our lives.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
It's a really beautiful tribute, and reading it, I was like, Wow,
everyone should do this for their family member because it's
such a rich text. It's a document that would be
very hard to get otherwise. It's really touching seeing you
and Rhea write that about Missus Parks and her stepping
up to be that figure for y'all when your father died,
(21:36):
and it was nice to hear about y'all living in
the house together and just be a really tight knit
community and tight knit family. Did you discover anything new
about her while you were writing this book.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
The only thing I discovered was what deep love she
had for her husband and the love letters that they
had written back and forth to each other. I discovered that,
and I said, while she was a human, you know,
because I always saw she walked on water and she
floated through the room, and she was Auntie Rosa. The
(22:08):
thing that I learned more about her personal side with
her own husband uncle Parks was a great guy. He's
a great, great person. He was a sweet man. So
that when I learned that about how they really did
(22:29):
love each other. They wrote those love letters back and forth,
I was like, whoa they they were really married. I'm
so silly. I was just a kid, and I didn't
really know they had she she really had a life
with this man. And I did see her her voice
wavered when she called my mother and said Park said died.
(22:52):
She told called my mother and said Parks pasted the day,
and her voice shook. I was like, oh, my goodness,
you know, and I found that she had feelings, and
I thought, you know, she was rough and tough. She
rosa Parks. She got the powerful fists up and stuff.
She was a beautiful lady. That's what she was, beautiful
(23:17):
lady of faith. So I just found out more on
the personal side, she was just like everybody else. I
really wish I think I would have treated her differently.
I treated her like Auntie Rosa. I think I would
have tried to have more open conversations with her. But
(23:42):
my aunt was like this. I wasn't her contemporary, I
wasn't her age, so she was never going to speak
to me the way that she would speak to my father,
for instance. So my mother, they were her contemporaries, not me.
I was a little girl. I would never be on
that level for her to speak to me about any
(24:04):
thing that was going on with her, you know, anything personal.
I wasn't the one, so I don't think any of
her nieces and nephews were. And this is how Auntie
Rosa was. If you had wanted to ask her a question,
you could ask her the question. But if you never
asked her, she was volunteering no information. She was not
messy boots.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
I think it's funny already say like she wouldn't speak
to her nieces and nephews like in that gossip you way,
and in the book you and your brothers and sisters
kind of talk about how she didn't really like speaking
about the incident on the bus. Do you wish she
would have spoken about her role in the civil rights
movement more? And could you give us your recollection of
(24:46):
that bus incident? How she did tell y'all about it.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
She told my sister Shirley about it because my Shirley
was writing a paper. My sister Shirley, she was writing
a paper at school and she asked her about it.
I never asked her, Hey, what happened on that bus.
But when she told my sister what happened, it was
different from what the media was portraying. And my sister asked, well,
(25:12):
why didn't you ever say anything. She said, well, I
knew what happened. I just ran with that narrative, and
that was what they wanted to portray, that the bus
was crowded, and it wasn't you know. It was a
lot of things, a lot of tensions and in the South.
But she had said that it's this bus driver. He
knew she worked for the NAACP, and he was just
(25:35):
a meano, nasty bus driver and he would have all
the color people they called him. At the time. We
were colored, we would go to the front, pay your fare,
and then get off and go to the back to
get on. When Auntie Rosa would do that, he would
just pull off and leave. So he had an attitude
towards her anyway. He didn't like nobody that was colored.
(25:55):
He just hated them. And he told her to move
when she really didn't have to get up and move,
and the other colored people on the bus did get up.
I think two other people did, and she just said, no,
it's plenty of spase, I'm not doing that. And uh,
he said, well, I'm gonna call the police. She said, okay,
(26:17):
oh yeah, what what the heck? But she had been
training for this day. This day was gonna come. It
came from many other people before, and some of them
they took away and you never saw him again. I
think Claude Covin. They took her away and she lived.
I think she was a teenager when they took her away.
(26:40):
She wouldn't move. There were other people that did the
same thing Auntie Rosa did, but they were NAACP was
looking for somebody that will be I think acceptable by
the country, and Auntie Rosa, though had been training for this,
she just didn't say, hey, I'm not moving today. She
(27:00):
had actually trained to do what she did, and she
just said I'm not doing it because she had had enough.
So people didn't know back in those days or even now,
that could get you your head blown off, and so
the amount of courage it took for her to say no,
I'm not doing it, it took a lot because he
(27:23):
could have just drew his gun and shot her, and
that would have been the end of her. They want
you to comply, comply, do what I say, do what
I say, like get out here. You're a human just
like me, how to do what you say? I was
glad that she did that because it changed our world.
It changed the world we live in and the whole planet.
(27:44):
It changed everything the way people believe they ought not
be treated and they stand up. And that's what we
need more of today. We need people to stand up
and say no, We're not taking this anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And do you think thats not talking to y'all until
you specifically asked her questions about things, do you think
that that was part of her personality or do you
think any part of that came from her doing movement
work and knowing that certain things had to stay close
to the chest.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
She was very stealthy, I'll tell you that. And because
they would have these secret meetings and she would not
tell people anything. And my parents they did the same thing,
and I'm like, what are they doing. I think that
(28:35):
the adults in our family did not include us kids
and a lot of that business, and I think it
was a form of protecting us. And also I think
Auntie Rosa she did a lot of investigative work about
some of the women down in Montgomery that were raped attacked,
(28:55):
and she would you get all this information, and she
knew who to talk to and who not to talk
to you about what she found out. And I think
that helped her to stay alive, you know, because if
you told them wrong person and they went running back,
it's just, you know, too much chatter. So she I
think learned by habit doing that, not volunteering any information
(29:17):
it wasn't necessary.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I heard that Auntie Rosa was a great cook, and
I was wondering, what your favorite recipe she made it.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
I just did a interview with somebody about It was
some kind of pancakes, the peanut butter featherlight pancakes. It
was a recipe she had written down on the bag.
And the lady called me because she made those pancakes
and they were so good. Those weren't good pancakes, the
peanut butter feather lights, and you had to cook them
(29:47):
really slow or they would burn. And Auntie Rosa would
take notes, like when she was writing up her little recipe,
she would take notes if you turned the heat up
too high and she would write that down. It will burn.
Don't we turned it up? So she tell you, but
a pinch of salt, a little dash of sugar, whatever,
it's Southern way of cookie. They knew what a pinch was.
(30:10):
I still don't know. Offer the whole box of salt
and be making a miss. But she said a pitch.
She meant the pitch to season. And those pancakes are good.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Those are the kinds of things that people would never
know or never think about when they think about your
auntie Rosa. It's like we have this really a lot
of the times, we have so many misconceptions and all
this misinformation about people who become larger than life in
people's minds who didn't know Rosa Parks. And this happens
with so many civil rights leaders that live in so
(30:40):
many people's minds, as these figures that we see on
television all the time and we hear their quotes, but
we don't fully know the real them. So it's really
nice to hear those parts of them that really bring
more of their humanity in. But I do think because
we don't know their full selves, there are so many
times when we used their names in ways that for instance,
(31:03):
in media and in storytelling, there are so many times
that Rosa Parks's name has been used where they co
opt her legacy to tell their stories. So I was
wondering if you or your family ever think about or
have ever thought about the ways that people used their
auntie's name and film in ways that have to do
(31:24):
with the ways that they think about your auntie's legacy.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Oh yeah, and also in real life, movies are make believe.
On heard many times where I think it was something
in barbershop Rose Parts ain't doing nothing, you know, just
ran off. And then I've worked with people that even
said to me it didn't know I was related to
Rose parents. Oh, Rosea pars ain't doing nothing. She didn't
(31:48):
do nothing. I was like, well, the thing that she did, whatever,
her nothing, is allowing you to sit exactly where you are.
And I don't see a white's only sign, you know,
in any restaurant now, So what do you mean she
didn't do nothing? She affected a change that you didn't
or nobody that you know did. So when people say that,
(32:10):
it doesn't offend me because I know movies are make believe.
Even Tyler Perry when he used Auntie Bros's name, it
was comedy comedy. It was funny, and I laughed at
it because it was funny. I don't take offense, you know,
I don't take offense to these scenes because I know
a movie is made to affect some type of emotion
(32:33):
in you, and basically Tyler Perry just made me laugh.
But I think the Barbershop movie, a few people got
mad about that, but it's okay, it's a movie. What
the heck. They don't know her, They didn't know her.
They you know, everything she did was for them, everything
for the people making the movie, everything she did, and
(32:53):
they know that. In real life, I think she did
something that moved the whole world.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
But I think that'll also be part of what your
book helps with it being a teaching tool, like you said,
of people being able to see a fuller version of
who she actually was and what her character was.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Like this book, you know, I could give this to
my grandkids. What happened when my children got a chance
to know her because my mother and my father had passed,
So my two sons, they held her hand, they sat
with her, they got a chance to know her. But
then my grandkids didn't. So then my sons tell his
(33:29):
son's stories about her, and all I offer is the book.
We can always open that and we can go to
you know, certain sections to see what she would do
if this or that came up. There's an answer or
you know, some type of remedy that she would give us.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
How do you think your Auntie Rosa would have felt
about the book if she read it?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Well, what's not to like? I think she would like
it because it was well thought out, it was a heartfelt,
so I think she would like it. School children could
even read it and take from it write a report
if they want, and I think she would have liked
that idea of it being an educational tool. If need me.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Now it's time for roll credits, the segment where we
give credit to a person, place, or thing that we
encountered during the week, and we have our guests, Miss
Sheila joining us. But first, Eves, who are what would
you like to give credit to?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I like to give credit to Misch Sheila and all
of your family members that wrote this book and that
we're willing to share their memories of Rosa Parks because
without y'all, we wouldn't know any of this, and I
think it's just incredibly enlightening to have this information. It
helps me understand people and history that are very important
(34:52):
to us, that pave the way for us to literally
exist in this country. To know those things about them
is a blessing, It's a privileg and I would just
like to give credit to y'all because I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
How about you, Miss Sheila, Who or what would you
like to give credit to?
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I would like to give credit to young man for
bringing the descendants together in Washington, DC. His name is
Joshua Jordanson, and he came up with this idea back
in twenty eighteen to bring all the descendants together because
without the descendants, without the ancestors, rather, we just wouldn't
(35:35):
be here without Harriet Tubman. For sure, a lot of
us wouldn't be here without my Auntie Rosa. You know,
a lot of us wouldn't be here. So I'm giving
credit to him this week for pulling together Frederick Douglas,
Ida b Wells, Martin, Luther King, Malcolm X. A lot
(35:58):
of the descendants came together and met, shook hands and
hug and fellowship. And I thought that was really a
cool thing because now we can forge something out of that.
We're going to push forward for our communities, and that
brought about some ideas for our heads. So I thought
(36:18):
that was the coolest thing. So I'm thankful for that
person for coming up with that idea.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yes, that's very powerful. I'm I'm super excited to see
what comes out of it, and I'm looking forward to
y'all for y'all to have that experience every year. Because
he said y'all are thinking about doing it and laid
out I think that would be really cool. I would
like to give credit to breaking the rules, and obviously
that's inspired by Rosa Parks. But as Michila said, we
(36:48):
should take some of the lessons that we learned from
our ancestors like Rosa Parks and apply them today. And
today we're seeing a lot of strange things going on
and a lot of rules that just don't make sense.
And we know they don't make sense. They are insulting
to our common sense. Yet a lot of times, just
because it is a rule, we decide to follow it.
(37:11):
So I want to encourage people, if it is a
stupid rule, do not follow it and make it known
that you're not about that. You're not going to just
go with whatever someone says especially when they mean you
know good, I'm gonna give credit to breaking the rules.
Thanks so much, Mischila for joining us. You will and
(37:33):
we will see y'all next week.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Bye on Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather
Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and
Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
Follow us on Instagram at on Theme Show. You can
also send us an email at hello at on Theme
(37:56):
dot show. Head to on Themet Show to check out
the show notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.