May 12, 2023 • 31 mins
Ed talks with R&B singer, Will Downing. The star has been an R&B favorite for three plus decades, singing songs that often reflect the emotions of life, including hurt and pain, which became unthinkably real for the singer this year when his daughter, who struggled with mental illness, joined the growing ranks of young African-Americans who take their own lives. He opens up about the tragedy and what he’s doing to cope, including a song he created, in the wake of his daughter’s death, to help those going through dark times.
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred Ed Gordon Podcast.
Today a conversation with singer Will Downing. Downing has been
an R and B favorite for three plus decades. His
rich baritone has solidified a fan base that has remained
loyal over the years. His songs often reflect the emotions
of life, including hurt and pain, which became unthinkably real
(00:46):
for the singer this year when his daughter, who struggled
with mental illness, joined the growing ranks of young African
Americans who've taken their own lives. Hey, Will, thank you
for joining me today. Man, we should note for everybody,
we have been friends for a long time. When I
was pulling some stuff up about you, not that I
(01:09):
don't know most of it anyway, but thirty five years
in the business, and I would suspect that we probably
have known each other, if not all those thirty five years,
at least thirty four of those thirty five.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Man, you and I go back to I've probably met
you when I had hair and I was.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Black, Right, I was gonna say you black girl.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, that's how far we go back.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely listen, before we get into a serious discussion, I
want to ask you just about that thirty five years. Man.
You know, as you get older, you start to count
your blessings and appreciate what surrounds you in a way
that you just don't have the capacity when you're younger.
When you think about your career and you think about
(01:54):
all the people that you started with who no longer
are making me and not not because they don't want to.
You know, how do you look back at the career now?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Man?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's interesting and yeah, I often think about the beginning
the journey who we started with, and you know who
no longer is here for one reason and or another,
and you know, grateful, you know what I mean. I
was one of the ones that back in the day,
they always tried to get me to be something that
I really wasn't and told me that that would be
(02:28):
the downfall of my career and I wasn't gonna and
all these sort of negative connotations that came along with it.
And here we are, all these years later, and I'm
still going. And you know, you hate to kind of
say I told you so, but you know, you should
follow your own dream, be yourself at all times, and
cream always rises to the top. So you know, I'm
not saying that I'm on top, but I've survived this
(02:50):
long and you know, been making a living at doing
this music thing for the amount of time that you
in Line have known each other for, you know, thirty
five years and twenty whatever behind me, twenty six out
twenty six. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah yeah. Well, let me pivot now to something that
really aligns with that, and that is just how precious
life is. You know. We should note that this coming weekend,
I'm doing a special on BET about mental health and
suicide and the crisis that our community finds itself in,
(03:25):
and unfortunately, it has touched you personally, and I appreciate
that you saw that I was doing that and reached
out to me and said that, you know, I'd love
to be able to talk about it and share, you know,
what I've gone through in hopes of helping others. And
so we should note that your daughter passed away this
(03:49):
year and you've been having you and your family have
been having to deal with that. Give us a sense
of what you dealt with leading up to it, because rarely,
very rarely is it one incident immediate that causes people
to take their own lives.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, yeah, my daughter, Aaron Chavon, she was thirty one
years old, and she had been and we as a
family had been dealing with her on.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Her issues for quite a few years. You know.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
At first, we thought it started out as basically, you know,
we thought it was just things that kids go through.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
In life's pains, life's growing pains.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And as the years went on, you know, the severity
of it became, you know, highly increased. You know, we
got a professional help, We did what we could. She
hated taking the medication that she was on, so when
she wouldn't take the medication, she would kind of self medicate,
and you know that was you know, obviously part of
(04:53):
the downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We did pretty much all that we could do with her.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, she lived on the West Coast with her
mother in the same state, in the same city, but
apart uh, and the majority of the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Family was here on the East Coast.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, that's probably the one thing that I wish
I'd have pushed more for, was to have her here
around family and loved ones, and also that that we
had gotten her professional help a lot earlier when we
had noticed signs of slight irregular acting, you know, a
(05:32):
way of acting, you know, trying to the right words
to say. Yeah, it's a way of behavior. So you know,
a lot of times we as black folks, we tend
to not talk about certain things, and mental health is
certainly one of them.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, we kind of sweep it under rug. I
remember talking to my.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Dad about it years and years ago, and my father's
from the South, and he would say, you know, take
him down home, let him run around in the fields,
give some collar greens and some ice staters, like what, yeah,
just get some real food.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And the look they'll be fine. You know, she'll be fine,
He'll be fine. You know. As my son deals with
it as well.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And then as the years went on, then it kind of,
you know, it got worse and they look at me like,
you know, what are you gonna do about this? Like
I told you this years ago. You told me to
let him run around in the fields and get ice
staters and call of greens like it's bigger than that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So I didn't know what to do. He didn't know
what to do.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We did the best we could, but it's something that
we probably as a family, as a group, should have
spoken about to get her the help that she needed.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I want to ask you about being a parent and
having to deal with that, and you know, we laugh
about how our community has seen it in some ways,
because it does seem when you look back, almost comical.
I think about the movie Soul Food and the uncle
that lived up in the right, you know, in the attic,
and they just kind of pushed the food. And we
(07:02):
all have had people in our lives and our families
as we look back and say that, you know what,
that was probably an issue with mental health that we
just could not identify that we kind of wrote off.
But as a parent, you know, in doing this special,
because we're concentrating on young people literally teenagers and under
(07:24):
on one of the segments that we're doing, and what
I find is it is hard to discern just being
a teenager and some of the mood swings and the
behavior that is quote unquote normal, what you identify as
you look back now, is there anything that you say
(07:46):
I should have seen that I shouldn't have just written
that off, or or would you think as you just
said that, look, it's a teenagers. I remember when I
was a teenagers just very mercurial.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I mean it's it is a very fine line.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You know, everything that I had seen, well not everything,
a lot of things that I had seen with her,
I felt about my parents when I was coming up.
You know, my parents told me no to something I
was I hate my parents. You know, every kid had
said that at some point you really mean it, but
you know, you'd say that, and you know, and for
some people they would write it down and document it
(08:22):
or a diary or whatever. And you know, we had
seen that with her. You know, I'd find some of
the writings that she would put into a little book,
and you know, I kind of go, okay, well, you know,
in theory, I shouldn't be looking at it, so in
theory I shouldn't talk to her about it.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But I saw it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And then you would hear about other teens going through
similar things, like the Low years ago was like teens
were cutting themselves, you know, just little cuts, and she
was doing that a little bit, and it was sort
of like, you know, normally as a culture, that's not us.
And it was the first time that I had physically,
you know, kind of come very close.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
To something like that, and honestly, I just did not
know what to do.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And I go ahead, will I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, And
I was gonna say it was just one of those
things where I just decided myself, you know, I'm gonna
spend some more time with you know what, uh my
my wife at the time, and that we were we
were separated, and so I would get the kids on
the weekends. On the weekends, I would just try to
make it like this ultra like Okay, we're going to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We're gonna, we're gonna, You're gonna feel better.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And then you know, then they go back to their
environment and you know, then you know, it's kind of
like a roller coaster of emotions that I would assume
that they would they were dealing with, so you know,
she'd be up sometimes, sometimes she'd be down. So I
just I just kind of had written it off as
just being growing things, to be honest with you, So
it is that fine line, and you don't know how
to define what is depression in her case, bipolar slight
(09:44):
bits of schizophrenia. All that sort of kind of came
into focus as the years went on, and.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We've got to be careful as we have this discussion.
I was with Taraji p Henson and she's opening up
some wellness pods and it shiative. She cares as she's
looking first to black women on HBCU campuses and the like.
And you know, we talked about the idea of just
the discussions that we have and how we have to
(10:11):
be careful because for so long we as a people
almost laughed at off because we know that we're resilient,
We know that we can kind of power through even
with the idea of you know, the cutting. For so long,
it wasn't in our community, but we should be very clear,
it's very much in our community now. It is no
(10:31):
longer we don't do And I found that in one
of the families that we dealt with, you know, they
had a child that was also doing that. Do you
do you find that you're more careful now, more concerned
about your other kids? And how have you dealt with others?
Did you find other families to talk to, because let's
(10:54):
be honest, you know, in the beginning of finding out
that your child, whether it's something this serious or you know,
just that your child likes to dress, you know, strangely,
we all, oh, lord, they're gonna look at us like
they're crazy. How do you deal? How did you deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, we're still dealing with it, and I know I'm
personally dealing with it, you know, every day. I mean,
this is so new. It's we're in April, the beginning
of May, and this happened in January. So I wake
up every day. I mean sometimes I can't go to sleep,
you know, overcome with emotion. I find myself just crying
(11:33):
and trying to understand what this thing is all about,
Like what happened, and there's so many branches to the
tree that comes along with it, not just the mere
fact that she took her own life and that she's
not here.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's like now we have to deal with it as
a family.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And you know, everyone has their different kind of take
on what happened, where we went wrong, sometimes even placing
the blame on the other person. So you know, I
know I'm going to need professional help because you know,
I mean I'm in a bit of depression myself. You know,
I openly admit that. You know, I just don't feel
motivated because of what happened. I mean, I can see
(12:10):
another a child that looks like my child. I'll start,
you know, I'll lose it. You know, I look at
the young lady in Abbot Elementary, The young lady Quinter Quinter,
My kid looks like her, you know, same height, same face,
same you know, I look at her. I can't even
watch the show I watch. I'll start boo hoo when
I think about, you know, my child. So, I mean,
(12:34):
I don't have the answers, to be honest with Ed,
I don't have all the answers I'm navigating in myself.
But I did, you know, write a song to kind
of alleviate the pain for me and my family. I
guess they'll speak on our behalf and hopefully within that
song someone to hear something and even see something within
the video that they can relate to, and they can.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know, we can. We can save some lives that way.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I know, that's just talk a little bit about that motivation.
I mean, someone like yourself takes all of the emotions
(13:21):
they find in life and can make art out of it.
Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, it was an easy song to write, to be
honest with you, because it was kind of what we
were all talking about after the fact. You know, we're
making telephone calls and doing zoom calls to each other.
Language She talked to you, she says something to you,
and we're trying to frankenstein this composite, like this emotional
thing that she was going through that led to this.
So that's what the song is. And when people see
(13:50):
the video that goes along with the song, we did
kind of like a reenactment of a father and daughter
dealing with the same thing that we dealt with with her.
And so the first line of the song is, you know,
can you tell me? I wish that you could tell
me what the hell was on your mind? You know,
last I talked to you, you were doing fine. I
talked to my daughter on January the fourth. She left
(14:13):
me a voice message on New Year's Eve that I
recorded and well took that voice message and put it
onto the song as well. Eleven days later she was dead,
and so we went from this cheerful, hey, happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Oh great, you know, and then a week later we
talked to dead with a note.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So the song was easy because there was a lot
of questions in it, that of which I won't have
the answers to until I still we meet again, which
is the title of the song, and we can discuss it.
But within that if people see it and they're dealing
with something like this. Hopefully I'll give them a little
bit of relief, let them know that you're not in
this by yourself and to see professional help.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Well, I'm curious as a father. You know, well, you
know the relationship that I have with my daughter, and
in fact, you were very instrumental as we kicked off
a father daughter initiative a few years ago, and you
lent us a song that you had recorded. And I'm
curious as a father. Part of I suspect what you're
(15:19):
dealing with too, is you always you want to protect
all your children, but there's something about a daughter that
fathers feel even more protective. How much are you dealing
with the idea? And there's nothing that you could have done,
you know, and logically you know that, but I suspect
you still struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, I mean, how can you not? I mean, you know, daughters.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I think in cases like this, we as men, we
think of who we were and how we were coming
up and our pursuit of you know, of women, and
then you see these guys coming up with your daughter.
No no, no, no, no no no, yeah, it's mine,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Leaders from a law.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
We want to be there all the time for them,
twenty four hours a day. But the fact of the
matter is is they do grow up and they're on
their own, and you hope that as a parent that
you have instilled enough information into them that they can.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Survive on their owns, but on their own.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But you know, you you still have that protective nature
and that's with me and I have two other children,
my daughter, and I have a grandson and my son.
You know, you feel that way about all of your kids,
but with daughters. As you're saying, you're correct, you don't
want anyone ever talking to them. You want everyone any
harm coming their way, and you do what you can.
But you know, she lived on her own. She was
(16:38):
living her own life. You know, as much as I
would say no, no, no, no no, every time I
said no, no, no, no, nor in her mind it
was yeah, yeh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going and this
is what I'm going to do, so as we have
all done as children. So you know, we gave her
all the tools to live with that we could. And
(17:01):
you know, unfortunately, it is an illness, is a mental
illnesses and a chemical imbalance. There's something that I don't
understand technically that goes on where that fine line of
depression and suicidal tendencies and life kind of there's a
real fine line there, you know, where people with happiness
(17:22):
and complete sadness. You know, it's that roller coaster. And
I can't say that I understand it, but I wish
I could have been there even more to help prevent it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You can't use logic for this. You can have empathy, clearly, sadness,
grieving all the other things, but to try to figure
out in a rational way why this occurs would not
be I think the approach that we should take, as
you say, we don't yet even though we say it,
(17:56):
we don't yet view it as we would other illnesses.
We just as as a community, and I'm in a
community of people, not just black folks. What have you done? Will?
Or have you? Maybe it's a better way of putting it,
been able to put some of I'm sure the guilt
that you felt early on aside. You said something key
(18:18):
that some other parents that we talked to as we
prepared this special said. They said, yeah, I have guilt,
but I knew I did everything I could, and that
helped them lay down some of that guilt because it
is what you should have done in your mind that
you trip over. But if you feel like I did
(18:40):
all that I could, it's just no way I could
have done anything.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Are you in that place now? No?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Not yet. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Like I said, it's so soon since it's happened, like
it's been a matter of three or four months. So
I hear that all the time.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I say that to myself, but in my spirit, I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And also you know, there's a somewhat of a religious
aspect to it as well, you know, more so than
the mental health.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
As soon as I heard it, I mean, the first
thing I'm thinking to myself like okay, you know, as
I grew up in the Baptist Church, you know, and
there was the Golden rule, like you know, can't take
your own life or you can't make it in heaven.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So like my mind and my heart immediately.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Like okay, you know, I know it's gonna sound that
might sound a little crazy to you or to.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Someone who's listening. It's like she gonna make it in heaven.
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
That's you know, that's my mind is there, Like okay,
you know what happens. I mean, the amount of questions
that come along with that and everything that comes along
with what.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Happened, they're endless.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
They're endless, whether we're dealing with the mental health aspect
of it or the religious aspect of it. For me,
I kind of look at it from that standpoint. So,
you know, I started doing things and even where I
buried with my day, you know, because I didn't want
her to be alone. Yeah, so you know, it's like
she's buried with my father. So in my mind, I'm
(20:07):
kind of like they're together. You know, whether there's any
factor that or not, no one knows, but you know,
it may it brought me comfort. It brought my family
comfort as well. So, like I said, I'm still navigating
my way through this thing, and yeah, I suspect that
will be the case for the rest of my days.
And yeah, I'm sure obviously I'll feel better as time
goes on.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But you know, you never forget. Yeah, always, it's always
going to be there.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
What of the idea, you know, people naturally think of
the grieving process and you hurting in that way, but
what of the anger. I would think that you would
have to have come across anger even to her at times,
or anger at the world or anger at God. You know,
(20:52):
when you say, look, I've been a faithful servant. Why
bring this to my doorstep. I'm sure it's fleeting, but
I would suspect it's there.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, oh yeah, I mean, you know, you and I
have been interviewing with each other for years, and you're
one of the first people that interviewed me when I
was I guess somewhat coming on the rebound of my illness.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
In two thousand and seven, Downing was diagnosed with a
rare muscular disease, polymyocytis, that at times can be fatal.
It rendered the singer unable to walk and bedridden. There
was even question about him being able to sing again.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
When you reached out and said, hey, we'd like to
do interview you. I mean, I'm still in a wheelchair.
I'm everything, and I was even then, I'm like, come on, man, really,
But at the same time I felt that I was
spared to spread the word and to give hope to others,
and in this case, I would assume, you know, the
celebrity you know, to quote unquote celebrity that I have
(21:50):
gives me a large platform to spread the word for
other people dealing with this sort of thing, to let
them know that you know, it could happen to anyone,
regardless of what your financial status is, of what your
celebrity is. It can happen to anyone, and our job
is to help other people get through it from here
on out.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Help ourselves and in turn help others that are going
through it.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah. I remember reaching out when I found out when
you posted. I remember texting you that night and saying, simply,
there are no words for me to say. I just
wanted you to know that I was thinking about you
and praying. Yet there will be those who you know
(22:36):
want to give you the good word and get how
How what do you tell people? Because I remember Sabrina Fulton,
Trayvon Martin's mother telling me, you know, you try to
be gracious and you try to accept everything, but there
are just days you just want to be by yourself. Left.
I don't want to hear how it's going to get better,
Just me be How are you dealing with with the
(23:00):
those times and days?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, I mean that's me.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, you don't want to be disrespectful because other
people are reaching out and you're grateful for that fact.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But sometimes I really don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, not that I want to forget about it and
and move on, but you know, it's so overwhelming. There's
not a day that goes by where you don't think
about it. I mean, and even in regards to the
illness that I was going through, I deal with that
every day. So it's it's almost a form of PTSD,
you know. It's it's it's something that you know, it's there,
(23:35):
you know, I see it, I deal with it.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And yet again here's another piece that's attached on to that.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And then sometimes I just really don't want to talk
about it, and everyone wants to go into the gory
details and you know.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How exactly what she found and what did the notes
say it? And it's like, come on, man, you know,
let's not go down that road. You know, let us
greeb as a family on our own. And you know,
I don't have to give you every piece of you know,
details as to.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
What happened, how and why and who what time, and
you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Want to see that this and you know it's not
an investigation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I appreciate all the kind words cards, I really do,
but as you said, there are times I just want
to just gimme a minute.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, I'm curious how you've dealt with you know, you
you jumped to my question. I was going to ask
you about how you dealt with your mental health when
you were going through what was a very serious time
for you. You know, we were concerned whether, let alone
you were going to make it through. If you made
it through, whether you'd be able to continue to sing
(24:36):
and perform. And you know, I remember just coming into
the home they had moved, you know, just to give
people a sense of they had moved. You know, your
bed downstairs couldn't get to the stairs. And thank god
you were able to to continue the career and and
you know, give us what you have been blessed to,
(24:59):
you know, blessed with and that marvelous voice. But you know,
I'm wondering if mental health was a thing even after that,
that you think you took for granted, or because of
your daughter's situation, was it in the four as it
isn't enough for most of us.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, when I was going through what I was going through,
as far as you know, my physical ailment that I
went through, I mean I talk with people, I talk
with professionals. I talk to people that have been going
through the same thing that I was going through, and
to be honest with you, more than anything else, I
freaking prayed, you know, I prayed a lot. You know,
(25:37):
I'm sure that God was sick of me, but I'm like,
hey man, I got to get this out. And the
answers came. You know, the answers don't necessarily coming when
you specifically need them, but you know, in time, God
answers all your prayers, and then this is the case
with this as well.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I pray a lot. It has brought us as a
family closer together, so we.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Talk a lot about it, and I'll daily struggles within
each other, you know, to try to try to keep
each other lifted up. So it's a lot of praying,
a lot of talking. I personally have not added the
professional aspect to it as yet, but I will to
have someone that I can talk to.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Why haven't you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I don't know, you know, Like I said, I like
to deal with it myself and kind of understand a
little bit more myself before I go, you know, as
the picture of a lot of people's mind, lay on
someone else's couch and tell them my problems.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So but it's definitely coming.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
I definitely know I have to do it, because you know,
dealing with this on your own or even with your
family members is not enough, but it certainly helps.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
We as we wrap this. I'm curious about whether you've
had the moments that will ultimately come. I pray and
I'm sure they will, and that is that you'll be
able to look back on Aaron's life and think about
the joy that she brought. Have you had those moments?
And do you do you believe that that will ultimately be?
(27:06):
You know, I remember I remember being with Eddie LeVert
after Gerald passed. Gerald and I were close, and Eddie's
like an uncle to me, and I, you know, said
to him, eventually we will be able to turn on
the radio hear one of his songs and be joyous
right about it?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And so that joy is, we like to say, you know,
comes in the morning. Are you looking for that morning?
And have you had any of it at this point?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, it's funny, man, the things that she put us
through as a family over the years that we thought
was so monumental and uh, and and bad feelings and
all this stuff. It's funny man, we sit back now,
we tell these funny these stories, and we got to
laugh because you know, it's it wasn't as serious. Well
(27:57):
in some cases it was, but in some in some
cases it wasn't as serious, and you smile about it.
She was an artist, so she left us with a
lot of artwork, which I have hanging in my home
and we distributed to the other members of the family
as well.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So she's there. Uh. As matter of fact, the CD cover,
CD cover, damn, that's I'm old.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
See that's when you know, you always say CD cover,
But the cover of the single U Until We Meet
Again is actually her artwork. I took a picture of
and used it and used her artwork. So I look
at that and I smile about and I remember the
good times. We had amazing times, and we had some
bad ones as well. But you know, that's what life is.
That's what life is, you know. She she was who
(28:39):
she was. She was a great kid, just confused and
was catching a whole lot of hell internally, and we
did the best that we could with her. She lived
a she lived she lived a balanced life, you know,
but you know, just went over the top on me
on the on the bad end.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Well, look, man, I want to say that I appreciate
and have always appreciated your openness with me. You know,
You've let me in some times that are vulnerable to you,
and I appreciate the trust that you've given and I
look forward to whatever you're going to work on next
that isn't driven by this, but the the appreciation and
(29:22):
the craft understanding that you have and even being able
to turn you know, this into to art and to
hopefully have a better meant for others. You know, I
salute brother for for something that is unimaginable to I
think all parents and we can only you know, put
(29:44):
our arms around you from afar and say that you
know we're we're all praying for you and the family.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Man. Thank you, brother, Thank you, thank you, Thank.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You again, a huge thank you to Will Downing for
opening up to me about something so personal. Join me
on BT Sunday, May fourteenth at ten pm Eastern for
a new episode of America and Black for a special
look at mental health and suicide. If you or someone
(30:14):
you know needs help, dial the Suicide in Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eight eight again for help, Dial nine
eight eight one hundred is produced by ed Gordon Media
and distributed by iHeartMedia. Carol Johnson Green and Sharie Weldon
(30:34):
are our bookers. Our editor is Lance patten Gerald. Albright
composed and performed our theme. Please join me on Twitter
and Instagram at edel Gordon and on Facebook at ed
Gordon Media.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
The Next
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred Ed Gordon Podcast.
Today a conversation with singer Will Downing. Downing has been
an R and B favorite for three plus decades. His
rich baritone has solidified a fan base that has remained
loyal over the years. His songs often reflect the emotions
of life, including hurt and pain, which became unthinkably real
(00:46):
for the singer this year when his daughter, who struggled
with mental illness, joined the growing ranks of young African
Americans who've taken their own lives. Hey, Will, thank you
for joining me today. Man, we should note for everybody,
we have been friends for a long time. When I
was pulling some stuff up about you, not that I
(01:09):
don't know most of it anyway, but thirty five years
in the business, and I would suspect that we probably
have known each other, if not all those thirty five years,
at least thirty four of those thirty five.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Man, you and I go back to I've probably met
you when I had hair and I was.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Black, Right, I was gonna say you black girl.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, that's how far we go back.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Absolutely listen, before we get into a serious discussion, I
want to ask you just about that thirty five years. Man.
You know, as you get older, you start to count
your blessings and appreciate what surrounds you in a way
that you just don't have the capacity when you're younger.
When you think about your career and you think about
(01:54):
all the people that you started with who no longer
are making me and not not because they don't want to.
You know, how do you look back at the career now?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Man?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's interesting and yeah, I often think about the beginning
the journey who we started with, and you know who
no longer is here for one reason and or another,
and you know, grateful, you know what I mean. I
was one of the ones that back in the day,
they always tried to get me to be something that
I really wasn't and told me that that would be
(02:28):
the downfall of my career and I wasn't gonna and
all these sort of negative connotations that came along with it.
And here we are, all these years later, and I'm
still going. And you know, you hate to kind of
say I told you so, but you know, you should
follow your own dream, be yourself at all times, and
cream always rises to the top. So you know, I'm
not saying that I'm on top, but I've survived this
(02:50):
long and you know, been making a living at doing
this music thing for the amount of time that you
in Line have known each other for, you know, thirty
five years and twenty whatever behind me, twenty six out
twenty six. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm grateful.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah yeah. Well, let me pivot now to something that
really aligns with that, and that is just how precious
life is. You know. We should note that this coming weekend,
I'm doing a special on BET about mental health and
suicide and the crisis that our community finds itself in,
(03:25):
and unfortunately, it has touched you personally, and I appreciate
that you saw that I was doing that and reached
out to me and said that, you know, I'd love
to be able to talk about it and share, you know,
what I've gone through in hopes of helping others. And
so we should note that your daughter passed away this
(03:49):
year and you've been having you and your family have
been having to deal with that. Give us a sense
of what you dealt with leading up to it, because rarely,
very rarely is it one incident immediate that causes people
to take their own lives.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Well, yeah, my daughter, Aaron Chavon, she was thirty one
years old, and she had been and we as a
family had been dealing with her on.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Her issues for quite a few years. You know.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
At first, we thought it started out as basically, you know,
we thought it was just things that kids go through.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
In life's pains, life's growing pains.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
And as the years went on, you know, the severity
of it became, you know, highly increased. You know, we
got a professional help, We did what we could. She
hated taking the medication that she was on, so when
she wouldn't take the medication, she would kind of self medicate,
and you know that was you know, obviously part of
(04:53):
the downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
We did pretty much all that we could do with her.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know, she lived on the West Coast with her
mother in the same state, in the same city, but
apart uh, and the majority of the.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Family was here on the East Coast.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, that's probably the one thing that I wish
I'd have pushed more for, was to have her here
around family and loved ones, and also that that we
had gotten her professional help a lot earlier when we
had noticed signs of slight irregular acting, you know, a
(05:32):
way of acting, you know, trying to the right words
to say. Yeah, it's a way of behavior. So you know,
a lot of times we as black folks, we tend
to not talk about certain things, and mental health is
certainly one of them.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, we kind of sweep it under rug. I
remember talking to my.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Dad about it years and years ago, and my father's
from the South, and he would say, you know, take
him down home, let him run around in the fields,
give some collar greens and some ice staters, like what, yeah,
just get some real food.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
And the look they'll be fine. You know, she'll be fine,
He'll be fine. You know. As my son deals with
it as well.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And then as the years went on, then it kind of,
you know, it got worse and they look at me like,
you know, what are you gonna do about this? Like
I told you this years ago. You told me to
let him run around in the fields and get ice
staters and call of greens like it's bigger than that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So I didn't know what to do. He didn't know
what to do.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
We did the best we could, but it's something that
we probably as a family, as a group, should have
spoken about to get her the help that she needed.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I want to ask you about being a parent and
having to deal with that, and you know, we laugh
about how our community has seen it in some ways,
because it does seem when you look back, almost comical.
I think about the movie Soul Food and the uncle
that lived up in the right, you know, in the attic,
and they just kind of pushed the food. And we
(07:02):
all have had people in our lives and our families
as we look back and say that, you know what,
that was probably an issue with mental health that we
just could not identify that we kind of wrote off.
But as a parent, you know, in doing this special,
because we're concentrating on young people literally teenagers and under
(07:24):
on one of the segments that we're doing, and what
I find is it is hard to discern just being
a teenager and some of the mood swings and the
behavior that is quote unquote normal, what you identify as
you look back now, is there anything that you say
(07:46):
I should have seen that I shouldn't have just written
that off, or or would you think as you just
said that, look, it's a teenagers. I remember when I
was a teenagers just very mercurial.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I mean it's it is a very fine line.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
You know, everything that I had seen, well not everything,
a lot of things that I had seen with her,
I felt about my parents when I was coming up.
You know, my parents told me no to something I
was I hate my parents. You know, every kid had
said that at some point you really mean it, but
you know, you'd say that, and you know, and for
some people they would write it down and document it
(08:22):
or a diary or whatever. And you know, we had
seen that with her. You know, I'd find some of
the writings that she would put into a little book,
and you know, I kind of go, okay, well, you know,
in theory, I shouldn't be looking at it, so in
theory I shouldn't talk to her about it.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But I saw it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And then you would hear about other teens going through
similar things, like the Low years ago was like teens
were cutting themselves, you know, just little cuts, and she
was doing that a little bit, and it was sort
of like, you know, normally as a culture, that's not us.
And it was the first time that I had physically,
you know, kind of come very close.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
To something like that, and honestly, I just did not
know what to do.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And I go ahead, will I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, And
I was gonna say it was just one of those
things where I just decided myself, you know, I'm gonna
spend some more time with you know what, uh my
my wife at the time, and that we were we
were separated, and so I would get the kids on
the weekends. On the weekends, I would just try to
make it like this ultra like Okay, we're going to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
We're gonna, we're gonna, You're gonna feel better.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And then you know, then they go back to their
environment and you know, then you know, it's kind of
like a roller coaster of emotions that I would assume
that they would they were dealing with, so you know,
she'd be up sometimes, sometimes she'd be down. So I
just I just kind of had written it off as
just being growing things, to be honest with you, So
it is that fine line, and you don't know how
to define what is depression in her case, bipolar slight
(09:44):
bits of schizophrenia. All that sort of kind of came
into focus as the years went on, and.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
We've got to be careful as we have this discussion.
I was with Taraji p Henson and she's opening up
some wellness pods and it shiative. She cares as she's
looking first to black women on HBCU campuses and the like.
And you know, we talked about the idea of just
the discussions that we have and how we have to
(10:11):
be careful because for so long we as a people
almost laughed at off because we know that we're resilient,
We know that we can kind of power through even
with the idea of you know, the cutting. For so long,
it wasn't in our community, but we should be very clear,
it's very much in our community now. It is no
(10:31):
longer we don't do And I found that in one
of the families that we dealt with, you know, they
had a child that was also doing that. Do you
do you find that you're more careful now, more concerned
about your other kids? And how have you dealt with others?
Did you find other families to talk to, because let's
(10:54):
be honest, you know, in the beginning of finding out
that your child, whether it's something this serious or you know,
just that your child likes to dress, you know, strangely,
we all, oh, lord, they're gonna look at us like
they're crazy. How do you deal? How did you deal
with that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, we're still dealing with it, and I know I'm
personally dealing with it, you know, every day. I mean,
this is so new. It's we're in April, the beginning
of May, and this happened in January. So I wake
up every day. I mean sometimes I can't go to sleep,
you know, overcome with emotion. I find myself just crying
(11:33):
and trying to understand what this thing is all about,
Like what happened, and there's so many branches to the
tree that comes along with it, not just the mere
fact that she took her own life and that she's
not here.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's like now we have to deal with it as
a family.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
And you know, everyone has their different kind of take
on what happened, where we went wrong, sometimes even placing
the blame on the other person. So you know, I
know I'm going to need professional help because you know,
I mean I'm in a bit of depression myself. You know,
I openly admit that. You know, I just don't feel
motivated because of what happened. I mean, I can see
(12:10):
another a child that looks like my child. I'll start,
you know, I'll lose it. You know, I look at
the young lady in Abbot Elementary, The young lady Quinter Quinter,
My kid looks like her, you know, same height, same face,
same you know, I look at her. I can't even
watch the show I watch. I'll start boo hoo when
I think about, you know, my child. So, I mean,
(12:34):
I don't have the answers, to be honest with Ed,
I don't have all the answers I'm navigating in myself.
But I did, you know, write a song to kind
of alleviate the pain for me and my family. I
guess they'll speak on our behalf and hopefully within that
song someone to hear something and even see something within
the video that they can relate to, and they can.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know, we can. We can save some lives that way.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I know, that's just talk a little bit about that motivation.
I mean, someone like yourself takes all of the emotions
(13:21):
they find in life and can make art out of it.
Talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, it was an easy song to write, to be
honest with you, because it was kind of what we
were all talking about after the fact. You know, we're
making telephone calls and doing zoom calls to each other.
Language She talked to you, she says something to you,
and we're trying to frankenstein this composite, like this emotional
thing that she was going through that led to this.
So that's what the song is. And when people see
(13:50):
the video that goes along with the song, we did
kind of like a reenactment of a father and daughter
dealing with the same thing that we dealt with with her.
And so the first line of the song is, you know,
can you tell me? I wish that you could tell
me what the hell was on your mind? You know,
last I talked to you, you were doing fine. I
talked to my daughter on January the fourth. She left
(14:13):
me a voice message on New Year's Eve that I
recorded and well took that voice message and put it
onto the song as well. Eleven days later she was dead,
and so we went from this cheerful, hey, happy New Year.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Oh great, you know, and then a week later we
talked to dead with a note.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So the song was easy because there was a lot
of questions in it, that of which I won't have
the answers to until I still we meet again, which
is the title of the song, and we can discuss it.
But within that if people see it and they're dealing
with something like this. Hopefully I'll give them a little
bit of relief, let them know that you're not in
this by yourself and to see professional help.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Well, I'm curious as a father. You know, well, you
know the relationship that I have with my daughter, and
in fact, you were very instrumental as we kicked off
a father daughter initiative a few years ago, and you
lent us a song that you had recorded. And I'm
curious as a father. Part of I suspect what you're
(15:19):
dealing with too, is you always you want to protect
all your children, but there's something about a daughter that
fathers feel even more protective. How much are you dealing
with the idea? And there's nothing that you could have done,
you know, and logically you know that, but I suspect
you still struggle with that.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Well, I mean, how can you not? I mean, you know, daughters.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I think in cases like this, we as men, we
think of who we were and how we were coming
up and our pursuit of you know, of women, and
then you see these guys coming up with your daughter.
No no, no, no, no no no, yeah, it's mine,
you know.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Leaders from a law.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
We want to be there all the time for them,
twenty four hours a day. But the fact of the
matter is is they do grow up and they're on
their own, and you hope that as a parent that
you have instilled enough information into them that they can.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Survive on their owns, but on their own.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But you know, you you still have that protective nature
and that's with me and I have two other children,
my daughter, and I have a grandson and my son.
You know, you feel that way about all of your kids,
but with daughters. As you're saying, you're correct, you don't
want anyone ever talking to them. You want everyone any
harm coming their way, and you do what you can.
But you know, she lived on her own. She was
(16:38):
living her own life. You know, as much as I
would say no, no, no, no no, every time I
said no, no, no, no, nor in her mind it
was yeah, yeh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going and this
is what I'm going to do, so as we have
all done as children. So you know, we gave her
all the tools to live with that we could. And
(17:01):
you know, unfortunately, it is an illness, is a mental
illnesses and a chemical imbalance. There's something that I don't
understand technically that goes on where that fine line of
depression and suicidal tendencies and life kind of there's a
real fine line there, you know, where people with happiness
(17:22):
and complete sadness. You know, it's that roller coaster. And
I can't say that I understand it, but I wish
I could have been there even more to help prevent it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
You can't use logic for this. You can have empathy, clearly, sadness,
grieving all the other things, but to try to figure
out in a rational way why this occurs would not
be I think the approach that we should take, as
you say, we don't yet even though we say it,
(17:56):
we don't yet view it as we would other illnesses.
We just as as a community, and I'm in a
community of people, not just black folks. What have you done? Will?
Or have you? Maybe it's a better way of putting it,
been able to put some of I'm sure the guilt
that you felt early on aside. You said something key
(18:18):
that some other parents that we talked to as we
prepared this special said. They said, yeah, I have guilt,
but I knew I did everything I could, and that
helped them lay down some of that guilt because it
is what you should have done in your mind that
you trip over. But if you feel like I did
(18:40):
all that I could, it's just no way I could
have done anything.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Are you in that place now? No?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Not yet. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Like I said, it's so soon since it's happened, like
it's been a matter of three or four months. So
I hear that all the time.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I say that to myself, but in my spirit, I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And also you know, there's a somewhat of a religious
aspect to it as well, you know, more so than
the mental health.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
As soon as I heard it, I mean, the first
thing I'm thinking to myself like okay, you know, as
I grew up in the Baptist Church, you know, and
there was the Golden rule, like you know, can't take
your own life or you can't make it in heaven.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
So like my mind and my heart immediately.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Like okay, you know, I know it's gonna sound that
might sound a little crazy to you or to.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Someone who's listening. It's like she gonna make it in heaven.
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
That's you know, that's my mind is there, Like okay,
you know what happens. I mean, the amount of questions
that come along with that and everything that comes along
with what.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Happened, they're endless.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
They're endless, whether we're dealing with the mental health aspect
of it or the religious aspect of it. For me,
I kind of look at it from that standpoint. So,
you know, I started doing things and even where I
buried with my day, you know, because I didn't want
her to be alone. Yeah, so you know, it's like
she's buried with my father. So in my mind, I'm
(20:07):
kind of like they're together. You know, whether there's any
factor that or not, no one knows, but you know,
it may it brought me comfort. It brought my family
comfort as well. So, like I said, I'm still navigating
my way through this thing, and yeah, I suspect that
will be the case for the rest of my days.
And yeah, I'm sure obviously I'll feel better as time
goes on.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
But you know, you never forget. Yeah, always, it's always
going to be there.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
What of the idea, you know, people naturally think of
the grieving process and you hurting in that way, but
what of the anger. I would think that you would
have to have come across anger even to her at times,
or anger at the world or anger at God. You know,
(20:52):
when you say, look, I've been a faithful servant. Why
bring this to my doorstep. I'm sure it's fleeting, but
I would suspect it's there.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, oh yeah, I mean, you know, you and I
have been interviewing with each other for years, and you're
one of the first people that interviewed me when I
was I guess somewhat coming on the rebound of my illness.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
In two thousand and seven, Downing was diagnosed with a
rare muscular disease, polymyocytis, that at times can be fatal.
It rendered the singer unable to walk and bedridden. There
was even question about him being able to sing again.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
When you reached out and said, hey, we'd like to
do interview you. I mean, I'm still in a wheelchair.
I'm everything, and I was even then, I'm like, come on, man, really,
But at the same time I felt that I was
spared to spread the word and to give hope to others,
and in this case, I would assume, you know, the
celebrity you know, to quote unquote celebrity that I have
(21:50):
gives me a large platform to spread the word for
other people dealing with this sort of thing, to let
them know that you know, it could happen to anyone,
regardless of what your financial status is, of what your
celebrity is. It can happen to anyone, and our job
is to help other people get through it from here
on out.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Help ourselves and in turn help others that are going
through it.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah. I remember reaching out when I found out when
you posted. I remember texting you that night and saying, simply,
there are no words for me to say. I just
wanted you to know that I was thinking about you
and praying. Yet there will be those who you know
(22:36):
want to give you the good word and get how
How what do you tell people? Because I remember Sabrina Fulton,
Trayvon Martin's mother telling me, you know, you try to
be gracious and you try to accept everything, but there
are just days you just want to be by yourself. Left.
I don't want to hear how it's going to get better,
Just me be How are you dealing with with the
(23:00):
those times and days?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, I mean that's me.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
You know, you don't want to be disrespectful because other
people are reaching out and you're grateful for that fact.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But sometimes I really don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, not that I want to forget about it and
and move on, but you know, it's so overwhelming. There's
not a day that goes by where you don't think
about it. I mean, and even in regards to the
illness that I was going through, I deal with that
every day. So it's it's almost a form of PTSD,
you know. It's it's it's something that you know, it's there,
(23:35):
you know, I see it, I deal with it.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And yet again here's another piece that's attached on to that.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
And then sometimes I just really don't want to talk
about it, and everyone wants to go into the gory
details and you know.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How exactly what she found and what did the notes
say it? And it's like, come on, man, you know,
let's not go down that road. You know, let us
greeb as a family on our own. And you know,
I don't have to give you every piece of you know,
details as to.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
What happened, how and why and who what time, and
you know, and you.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Want to see that this and you know it's not
an investigation.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
I appreciate all the kind words cards, I really do,
but as you said, there are times I just want
to just gimme a minute.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, I'm curious how you've dealt with you know, you
you jumped to my question. I was going to ask
you about how you dealt with your mental health when
you were going through what was a very serious time
for you. You know, we were concerned whether, let alone
you were going to make it through. If you made
it through, whether you'd be able to continue to sing
(24:36):
and perform. And you know, I remember just coming into
the home they had moved, you know, just to give
people a sense of they had moved. You know, your
bed downstairs couldn't get to the stairs. And thank god
you were able to to continue the career and and
you know, give us what you have been blessed to,
(24:59):
you know, blessed with and that marvelous voice. But you know,
I'm wondering if mental health was a thing even after that,
that you think you took for granted, or because of
your daughter's situation, was it in the four as it
isn't enough for most of us.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Well, when I was going through what I was going through,
as far as you know, my physical ailment that I
went through, I mean I talk with people, I talk
with professionals. I talk to people that have been going
through the same thing that I was going through, and
to be honest with you, more than anything else, I
freaking prayed, you know, I prayed a lot. You know,
(25:37):
I'm sure that God was sick of me, but I'm like,
hey man, I got to get this out. And the
answers came. You know, the answers don't necessarily coming when
you specifically need them, but you know, in time, God
answers all your prayers, and then this is the case
with this as well.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I pray a lot. It has brought us as a
family closer together, so we.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Talk a lot about it, and I'll daily struggles within
each other, you know, to try to try to keep
each other lifted up. So it's a lot of praying,
a lot of talking. I personally have not added the
professional aspect to it as yet, but I will to
have someone that I can talk to.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Why haven't you.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I don't know, you know, Like I said, I like
to deal with it myself and kind of understand a
little bit more myself before I go, you know, as
the picture of a lot of people's mind, lay on
someone else's couch and tell them my problems.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
So but it's definitely coming.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
I definitely know I have to do it, because you know,
dealing with this on your own or even with your
family members is not enough, but it certainly helps.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
We as we wrap this. I'm curious about whether you've
had the moments that will ultimately come. I pray and
I'm sure they will, and that is that you'll be
able to look back on Aaron's life and think about
the joy that she brought. Have you had those moments?
And do you do you believe that that will ultimately be?
(27:06):
You know, I remember I remember being with Eddie LeVert
after Gerald passed. Gerald and I were close, and Eddie's
like an uncle to me, and I, you know, said
to him, eventually we will be able to turn on
the radio hear one of his songs and be joyous
right about it?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And so that joy is, we like to say, you know,
comes in the morning. Are you looking for that morning?
And have you had any of it at this point?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, it's funny, man, the things that she put us
through as a family over the years that we thought
was so monumental and uh, and and bad feelings and
all this stuff. It's funny man, we sit back now,
we tell these funny these stories, and we got to
laugh because you know, it's it wasn't as serious. Well
(27:57):
in some cases it was, but in some in some
cases it wasn't as serious, and you smile about it.
She was an artist, so she left us with a
lot of artwork, which I have hanging in my home
and we distributed to the other members of the family
as well.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
So she's there. Uh. As matter of fact, the CD cover,
CD cover, damn, that's I'm old.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
See that's when you know, you always say CD cover,
But the cover of the single U Until We Meet
Again is actually her artwork. I took a picture of
and used it and used her artwork. So I look
at that and I smile about and I remember the
good times. We had amazing times, and we had some
bad ones as well. But you know, that's what life is.
That's what life is, you know. She she was who
(28:39):
she was. She was a great kid, just confused and
was catching a whole lot of hell internally, and we
did the best that we could with her. She lived
a she lived she lived a balanced life, you know,
but you know, just went over the top on me
on the on the bad end.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Well, look, man, I want to say that I appreciate
and have always appreciated your openness with me. You know,
You've let me in some times that are vulnerable to you,
and I appreciate the trust that you've given and I
look forward to whatever you're going to work on next
that isn't driven by this, but the the appreciation and
(29:22):
the craft understanding that you have and even being able
to turn you know, this into to art and to
hopefully have a better meant for others. You know, I
salute brother for for something that is unimaginable to I
think all parents and we can only you know, put
(29:44):
our arms around you from afar and say that you
know we're we're all praying for you and the family.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Man. Thank you, brother, Thank you, thank you, Thank.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
You again, a huge thank you to Will Downing for
opening up to me about something so personal. Join me
on BT Sunday, May fourteenth at ten pm Eastern for
a new episode of America and Black for a special
look at mental health and suicide. If you or someone
(30:14):
you know needs help, dial the Suicide in Crisis Lifeline
at nine to eight eight again for help, Dial nine
eight eight one hundred is produced by ed Gordon Media
and distributed by iHeartMedia. Carol Johnson Green and Sharie Weldon
(30:34):
are our bookers. Our editor is Lance patten Gerald. Albright
composed and performed our theme. Please join me on Twitter
and Instagram at edel Gordon and on Facebook at ed
Gordon Media.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
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