Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Welcome to the latest edition of one hundred The Ed
Gordon Podcast. Today a conversation with Maryland Governor Wes Moore
is travel to the governor's mansion has been varied from
investment banker to white house fellow, to army event to
author more. Wore many hats before diving into politics. While
(00:42):
never holding elected office. Prior to his governorship, the Maryland
native did something very rare for a person of color.
Let me ask you something at the outset, and I
think a lot of people don't necessarily believe this in
today's time, but for an African American to be elected
to a statewide office in this country is still rare
(01:05):
and extraordinary. Talk to me about what you had to
think about leading into the race.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
You know, I I think about it in context where
You're right, it's not just that I'm the first African
American ever elected government in the history of the state
of Maryland. I'm only the third in the history of
this country to be elected governor. And it is something
that that it does. It's never lost on you, right
(01:34):
because the complexity of the fact that Maryland has a
very complex racial history. You know, Maryland is literally the
Mason Dixon Line, you know, runs through us. This is
the home of some of the bloodiest battles of the
Civil War, that this is the home of redlining. Literally
the birthplace of red lining was in the state of Maryland.
(01:56):
You know. So we have a very complex history when
it comes to when it comes to racial politics. But
also it's understanding that Maryland still exists in a country
that has a very complex history of racial politics. But
you know, one of the things I leaned on, even
though people said this has never been done before, people
said the state has never elected an African American as
(02:17):
its governor, I also thought about the other people who
I think of that make up the history of this state.
I think about the fact that Harriet Tubman was a Marylander,
and Frederick Douglas was a Marylander, and Thirdgod Marshall was
a Marylander, and Cap Calloway wasn't Marylander, and you'd be
Blake wasn't Marylander. So I leaned on the fact that
(02:38):
I know my history, I know who came before me,
And in fact, in my office, I actually have a
picture it sits right over there of Frederick Douglas, and
I positioned it specifically where his eyes almost looked like
he's looking right at the desk. And so I knew
that while we were marching in the territory that people
(03:01):
had not been before. I also knew that I had
enough folks who came before me, who were fertilizing the
ground that I was walking on. And so I knew
that that even though it was it was uncertain and
it was historic, it was static and it was because
of the work that people did before me.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
What was the conversation that you had to have, I
suspect with your family, particularly your wife. You've got two
young children. But this is politics is no longer as
as if it ever were, but certainly in today's time
not an easy game. There are a lot of peel
backs of the onion, sometimes personal. What was that conversation?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Unfortunately oftentimes person Yeah, you know, and and and you
know we saw it early where well, I tell you,
when we first got in the race, I was pulling
at one percent and so uh and so you know,
literally I'm not voting, was pulling higher than a Wes Moore.
So I mean with this race was full of people
who were statewide elected officials, and we had cabinet secretaries,
(04:04):
we had a former head of the DNC. We had
all these people who were inside this race, and then
me who'd never held elected office before, who never run
for public office before, who just spent my career in
the work and with the people, right and now saying
that I wanted to be the governor, wanted to be
the chief executive. And I had to tell you, when
we first started this race off, no one was really
(04:26):
paying attention to us because no one thought we had
a real we had a real chance in it. And
I remember, you know, having this conversation with my wife,
wife about it, who had spent time actually in the
political world. She worked for a former governor, Governor Glenn
Denning in the state of Maryland, and she said She's like, listen,
this is going to be hard, this is going to
be difficult, but we're going to do this together. And
(04:48):
this family, this entire family, has got you. And I
remember had all the rallies that went to I had
family members, cousins, aunties, uncles at every single one of
our events, no matter where in the state we were.
And I remember one time in particular at where it
was probably about five months before election day, and this
is when people started realizing that this wasn't a game,
(05:09):
that we could actually win this and our numbers just
kept moving up. And that's when the the foolish it starts, right,
That's when the attacks started. That's when the live start.
That's when you know the people who who you who
you thought, uh were your folks, and where your friends,
you know, showed a different showed a different shade. And
(05:31):
I remember one time it was particularly you know, just
just a particularly just troubling and disappointing uh episode that
happened with somebody with a person who actually was who
was one of the other opponents, one of the other
people who ran. And I remember my wife looked at
me and she put my head, my face in her hands,
(05:53):
and she said, it's because you're winning, you gotta keep going.
That was so powerful for me because it reminded me
that this journey that we were on, we're on together.
That if you do it with your family, you actually
have a chance of being able to be the candidate
that you hope to be, run the race that you
(06:15):
hope to run, and the event should be the chief
executive you want. But if your family's not all in
and not and not prepared for for what this is
going to bring on board, it does make it very
very complicated and very challenging. So my wife had the
ultimate veto power, but she chose not to act seize.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Let me ask you why politics? Because if you look
at your history, you know, coming out of the military,
the army, but made that a career investment banker, got
into my field, television host, you produce some things, You've
been a CEO of a foundation. I mean, there are
a lot of avenues that you could have taken. Why politics.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I think a lot of it was just because while
I was really proud of so much of the work
that we were doing, and we were doing work on
things like ending chob poverty, we were doing work on
increasing educational attainment for specific for black students and students
of color, I realized that unless you are dealing with
the policies in place, you will repeatedly find yourself cleaning
(07:18):
up the debris that comes from broken systems. Because we're
combating against systems. It's not just individual performance, it's systems
that continue to allow people to fall between the cracks.
And I remember when I was running one of the
largest poverty fighting organizations in this country, you know, we're
working for months try to get a former governor to
make an adjustment to the child tax credit, because that's
(07:40):
one of the most important tools that we have to
be able to address the issue of chop poverty. And
I remember I told him this is what you should
stay in your state of the state. I literally wrote
the line that he should stay in the state of
the statement, and I got an advanced copy of his
speech and there was no mention in that of child
poverty or of the child tax credit, and so I
(08:02):
was a little bit upset. I called the head of
public policy of organization and I'm ranting, and after my
five minute diatribe, he stopped me and he basically said, listen,
we worked for six months to try to get them
to include a line in the speech, but what if
you could write the whole speech? And that was the
(08:23):
point is by running for government, I now got a
chance to write the whole speech. And so my first
State of the State address, I very, very unapologetically said
that this was going to be the moment where the
State of Maryland was going to make the most aggressive
and bipartisan push to end chip poverty in the history
(08:45):
of our state. And I meant it, And so that
was really how we decided to move where if we're
not actually fixing the policies that are continuing to allow
people to fall behind, then there there is no amount
of other good work that is going to be done
or happen that's going to help to change the prospects
(09:07):
of the people that we fight for them today.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Let me ask you one other thing, going back to
the personal side before I jump into some specifics about politics.
But you lost your dad at three. You were three
when he passed away. My father died suddenly when I
was eleven. I'm curious, you know, I'm always curious when
people lose parents early how that impacts you, because I
(09:32):
think there's a reality that you have to come to
face with. Even at three, you had to then, you know,
not cognizant of everything by then, but growing up without
him at that point, I think it shows you very
early on that life ain't fun with Dick and Jane.
It's not what it's always you know, put up to be.
I'm wondering how that impacted you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Honestly, it still does. Yeah, And I remember when he
first passed, asked me he died in fund me, and
I didn't fully understand it. We're literally at his funeral.
I went to go view the body, and my mother
(10:13):
recounts how I said to my uncle Vinny, who took
me up to go you his body. I asked my
dad if he was going to come with us when
he was laying there in the coffin. So I still
didn't fully I wasn't even fully processing at that point
what was going on. But I think as I got older,
it started showing the way when I started processing processing it,
(10:36):
I think the collection of traumas and the daisy chain
of traumas that that ensuit of my life then started
showing itself in behavior, in terms of attitude, in terms
of anger and fear and hurt. And I think so
a lot of the challenges that I had when I
was coming up, and frankly, a lot of the challenges
(10:57):
that we see with so many of the young kids
our society right now. It's fueled from something. It's fueled
from a pain that they are dealing with or wrestling with,
and they are just not sure how to process it.
So it gets processed in very harmful ways for not
just them, but harpful ways for our society. But I
think one of the things that I really learned once
(11:20):
I got a better chance of being able to process
it and understand it, was there's a certain impermanence of
life that we've got to appreciate. And like when people
tell me, like I'm gonna do this in five years,
I'm gonna do this in ten years, or I'm gonna
work on this after, I'm like, who promised you that?
Because no one's ever promised me anything right. No one's
(11:42):
promised me more days, more weeks, more years. No one
ever telled me on the shoulder and said, hey, Wes,
you've got two five hundred and sixty four days left,
so pace yourself, right. And I think that for you,
myself and so many other people who experienced loss early
and frankly lost early loss repetitively, you just realize that
(12:06):
we move through life with an understanding that you've got
to make today your best. You've got to make today matter.
I don't know what tomorrow is gonna mark. I don't
know what next week's gonna bring. I don't know what
four years now is gonna bring, eight years now, I
don't know. The thing I do know is right now
(12:26):
in this moment, in this time that I have, you
got to do something with it. And so I think
there is a there is an urgency that I move with,
There's an urgency that I lead with, There's an urgency
that I govern with that I think it does stem
from lessons that I learned early in life about our
(12:47):
larger in permanence.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Let me ask you about it. In the moment, the
moment you're in now, the political moment you're in now,
is interesting to me. I was at an event that
you and your wife came to after the White House
Correspondence dinner, and it was interesting to watch you from afar.
I've seen it with a few politicians, but you can
(13:10):
see the excitement that one brings into a room when
they come, the buzz that comes along with it. You're
experiencing that now, modesty aside. That's the truth. So let
me just put that on the table. And then there's
an extra add it because we still as a people
find pride when ours do well, particularly in a high
(13:34):
profile position. I'm curious, that's heavy stuff at times. What
are you doing to kind of balance that out? And
what's that been for you?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know, listen, it's been. It's been very humble, you know.
I remember or was speaking with a friend of mine
who actually she's the president of one of the one
of the local one of the local unions, and she
was she was telling her grandson and she said, I'm
going to go I'm going to go meet the guy
(14:07):
have a meeting. He like asked what she's doing. She said,
I'm I'm gonna get ready to go meet the governor
and uh and she said. Her grandson said to her,
is that the one that looks like me? And she's like, yeah,
that's the one that looks like you. It's very humble,
and it's humbling because I I understand and appreciate the
(14:28):
connection that people have because truthfully, it's not something that
I understood or experience coming up. I think about the
fact that I was I was a eleven year old
kid with hand customertists. And if someone would have said
to that eleven year old kid, you know, one day
you could grow up to be a governor. Not only
would I wouldn't I leave them, I wouldn't know if
(14:49):
that even meant right. And so there is this, there
is this, you know, a power and a and a
and a humbling effect that I do take that on
when I appreciate the fact that I'm sitting in a
sitting in a seat that not many people that look
like me I've ever sat in. I think the other thing, though,
(15:10):
is I appreciate the fact that but there are a
lot of people who work to make sure that I
could be sitting in the seat and me being a
first was not the assignment. You know, if the assignment,
if me being first was all that was asked, and
then then or if at the end of my time,
the only people talk things people talk about it is oh,
(15:32):
he was the first something at this, then I feel
like I would have wasted a moment and all the
blessings would have been wasted on me. I try to
move with a sense of saying that my goal in
all this is to make sure that the impact that
we're doing that it is lasting, that it's going to
matter to the people who gave me the opportunity to
(15:52):
be in this seat. And then also, frankly, I need
to make sure that while you might be first, you
are not last. And while you might be the only
right now is the only black governor in this country.
I don't want to hold that title for very long.
I want to make sure that we are having people
(16:12):
who are not just you know, not just African Americans,
who are reflective of a community, but respectful of the
community in the way that they govern and in the
policies and the velocities that they're bringing into their governments.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Talk a little bit about as we walk into twenty
twenty four the importance of state politics. You know, I
look at the political landscape today and really the attacks
that so many of us are fighting against aren't necessarily
happening on a federal level. Yes, they're happening on a
state and local level. Tell people who may not see
that connection the importance of that absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
I mean, you know, when people say, well, you know,
I only vote for the presidential election, you know, I
tell people, then you're not realizing just how much impact
that these state and local elected officials are having on
your existence. And it's both for the unique ability for
governors in my case in governors to be able to
(17:09):
impact things in your lives. And that includes everything from
education policy. Like people have to understand for education policy
that's not done at the federal level, that's at the
state level. How you think about curriculum how you think
about requirements. How are you making sure that our students
are getting a twenty first century education and that they
are that we're teaching our young people how not just
(17:30):
to be employees, but how to be employers. That's being
done at the state level in many cases, and facts
even deeper than that. It's at the local your stitution
with school boards. Right, it's now what's happening with the
Secretary of Education. When people are talking about public safety
and what's happening in public safety in our lives. That's
not being done by federal law enforcement agencies. That's being
(17:51):
done by state and local police forces and state and
local agencies. So all these things matter deeply, and I
think it's important for people remember that the state is
actually a chance for us to push back against some
of these other elements that are happening on a national level. So,
for example, you know, when the Supreme Court decided in
(18:13):
the Broom case that it just it didn't matter people
should be able to carry firearms anywhere they want. Well,
in the state of Maryland, we said, we think differently,
and so we actually passed legislation that actually put together
common sense gun laws that said things like here in
the state of Maryland, that someone who has a history
(18:34):
of mental illness and a history of violence should not
be able to purchase a firearm, that someone under the
age of twenty one should not be able to purchase
a gun, and that people should not be able to
bring firearms inside of nurseries or government buildings in Maryland.
And so we were able to pass legislation in the
State of Maryland that pushed back when it comes to
(18:54):
things like reproductive health and reproductive rights. And I've said
that as long as I'm governor, Maryland will be a
safe paving for abortion right. And so we made sure
we did things like you know, adding on you know
three and a half years now of mephropristone, which is
the abortion drug. So there is a national band in
the state of Maryland. We are not going to criminalize
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people for doing something that should be a conversation between
a woman and her doctor and not politicians and judges.
That we are not going to that We are going
to focus on things like privacy and not criminalizing people
if they come to the State of Maryland. So you
see how on a state level we're actually able to
create policies that have direct impacts on people's lives, and
(19:35):
do it in a way that if necessary, where if
the federal government is not moving on something, that the
state of Maryland is going to say, well we are,
and we're just going to choose to lead and we're
just going to choose to do different in our state.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Let me give you two other points to touch on
that I know are a priority to you, and that
is fighting bigotry and racism and the things you're trying
to put in place there. And then let's go first
with this whole issue of banning books. Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I know again that's of import to you. It's
it's very important because when you were when you are
banning my history, you're banning my strength. You know, I
I gave that I gave the commencement Morehouse this year,
and you know it was a beautiful day where this
(20:24):
is the only place in the country where where you
saw four hundred black men get their get their their
bachelor's degree on one afternoon, uh at uh at the
at the at Morehouse. And the message that I left
them with this was with this is that we've got
to be intentional about pushing back against this book banning
(20:47):
that's taking place. We got to push back when person
says that, you know what, we're going to ban curriculum
and we're going to ban books like The Bluest Eye
or Beloved, that we're going to ban books about Hank
Aaron and books about Roberto Clemente, books about the Stonewall Riots,
books about the Holocaust and Japanese and Tonment because what
(21:08):
people don't realize what's happening there. They're doing it under
this guise of we're trying to prevent discomfort and guilt.
But that's not true. That's not the motivation for banning
books about books about the Transatlantic slave trade. The motivation
is they're trying to actually deter you from understanding your history,
(21:31):
because if you understand your history, you understand your strength.
I mean I move, I move with a sense of humility,
and I move with a sense of confidence that was
given to me by my ancestors. I move with a
sense of confidence in everything I do because I know
my hist history. I know the sacrifices people had to
(21:52):
make before me. I know the things that people had
to do in order for my existence to be real,
and so I ooh with that kind of urgency and
that kind of confidence because my history is hard thought
and my history is understood. So when we're doing things
like banning curriculum and banning books, when we're doing things
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like telling people who are part of this larger and
this beautiful mosaic of our state and our country that
your history doesn't matter or your history is not as relevant,
what you're essentially saying is your contribution is not as relevant.
And I won't stand for that. And so it is
important that we take this personally. This idea of being
(22:36):
able to protect our history, the idea of being able
to uplift our history, the idea of being able to
understand our history, and the idea of being able to
embrace our strength in our history. That is going to
give us the foundation for everything that we're hoping to
do in the future. Because when I know my history,
I know this, nothing is impossible. But if you don't
(22:56):
know your history, you start questioning what it is that
you can actually do inside this moment. And so that's
why I didn't just take this very personally, and I
will continue to take it personally. Why I'm urging other
people to be able to move with that level, with
that level of confidence as well.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Another battle More is taking on is the fight against bigotry.
This is not as easy as it seems, because bigotry
isn't always as easy to identify as people might believe.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I want people to understand that that when we're talking
about bigotry, that bigotry is not an act. Right when
people say, well, you know, well don't I don't attend
white Sir Francis rallies, so therefore that's not bigotry. Or
I don't wear a sheet on my head, so that's
(23:50):
not a big tree. Now, it's not that simple. Bigotry
comes up in systems, right, That's where it shows itself.
It shows us else and systems that means that, for example,
right now in the state of Maryland, we have an
eight to one racial wealth gap in the state of Maryland.
And that's not because one group has worked a times harder.
That's systems that has allowed that. That's redlining, that's the
(24:14):
Homestead Act, that's discriminatory policies in the way that the
GI Bill was transferred, where you are people who are
coming back from overseas and we're supposed to be receiving
universally a GI Bill that was not equally distributed alongst
people depending on skin color. That's things like unfair appraisal
values and knowing that you can live in a home
(24:35):
that has an unfair appraisal value, which has been one
of the greatest wealth thefts that we have seen in
our nation's history. These are systems, systems that have a
public education system that will educate a child, oftentimes depending
more on zip code than anything else. Systems. And so
for us to be able to con for us to
be able to combat bigotry, you've got to be able
(24:58):
to combat system students. And so I think about that
in respect of the work that we are doing and
the reason that we have been unapologetic and our push
against chob poverty here in the State of Maryland, unapologetic
in our push to make sure that we're addressing things
like procurement policies and making sure that our minority owned
businesses and our women owned businesses and our veteran owned
(25:20):
businesses are getting their fair share of state capital by
doing things like passing legislation that's focusing on driving and
increasing liquidity and low in income low and modern income
communities in lower income investors. Also in communities of color,
that we can increase capital and liquidity to small businesses
(25:41):
that are growing and thriving, and also some of the
largest employing vehicles that we have within so many of
our communities. We've got to be able to address that,
and that is how we're leading on it from from
a policy perspective, because I tell people, this is not
an emotive splurge. This is data. I am data driven
in heart led and the data could not be more
(26:02):
clear about the economic impacts of this wealth gap, where
just recently report came out that said that the racial
wealth gap has cost this country sixteen trillion dollars over
the past two decades in GDP. And that's not GDP
of a group, that's GDP. These disparities are hurting all
of us, and so that's why it's important that we
(26:24):
be intentional about helping to address them.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Well, so let me ask you what I'm acknowledging is
an unfair question, but it's one that I think shows
where we are politically and where the world is really
with everything. You are a little over six months into
office now, but people are already projecting down the road
where you'll be going, where you'll be looking, etc. I'll
(26:49):
try to put this in the same way I put
some years ago to the man you're being compared to,
and that's Barack Obama. I know that you want to
be the best governor you can for Mayora. That's you know,
your priority right now, et cetera, et cetera. But so
many are projecting you for higher office, whether it be
in the Senate, whether it be at the White House
(27:10):
or whatever. Let me ask you, genuinely, is it anything
that even fleetingly crosses your mind at this point now?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Not at all. And I don't necessarily consider anything or
anything like that higher office either because I love I.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Knew that was coming too.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I mean no, because honestly, I mean I think about
it in context of what we've been able to get
done in these in these first six months, you know.
I think about the fact that we're able to introduce
a legislative package of ten bills, and not only did
we go ten for ten for all the bills we introduced,
we went ten for ten bipartisan. We got Democrat and
Republican votes. I think about the fact that we've been
(27:52):
able to make the Norse Star about how we're focusing
on work wages and wealth for everybody in the state
of Maryland, and and not just some. And that includes
things like job retraining and jobry skilling. That we were
able to raise the minimum wage at fifteen dollars an
hour because its gone to be the days when you
have people who are working jobs, in some cases working
multiple jobs, and still living at or below a poverty line.
(28:13):
That we've been able to mainly make a target on
not just reducing the wealth gap and eliminating the wealth gap,
but increasing wealth prospects for every single person within the state.
I love what I'm doing, and I love the speed
that Maryland is moving at, and so I am very
much focused on making this Maryland's decade. And that's what
(28:35):
my focus is going to maintain.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
All right, Well, people can't say I didn't try. But
thank you so much, you know, congratulations and we look
forward to the rest of your term and whatever else
comes forward.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Thank you so much, God bless you. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Another big thanks to Maryland Governor Wes Moore. One D
is produced by Ed Gordon Media and distributed by iHeartMedia.
Carol Johnson Green and Sharie Weldon are our bookers. Our
editor is Lance Patten. Gerald Albright composed and performed our theme.
(29:16):
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