January 26, 2024 • 10 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, renowned historian David McCullough answers the question - about a most extraordinary group of men at a most extraordinary time in world history.
Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we continue with our American stories. And up next,
the late historian David McCullough is here to tell the
story of John Adams, and we want to thank the
John Adams Institute in the Netherlands for providing and sharing
this audio with us. This was a speech McCullough gave
before he died in the Netherlands at the institute. Here's
(00:34):
David McCullough with some of his great storytelling about our
founding fathers and why we must know our history.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
They weren't just like we are. We can never assume
they were just. They were nothing like we are in
many many ways. And one of the ways I tried
to get inside their lives was to try and read
not just what they wrote, but what they read. So
I tried to read all the writers that Abigail and
John read, Defoe, Swift, Pope, Savante, Shakespeare. And what's so
(01:10):
fascinating is to see how often they are not just
picking up ideas or turns of phrases, but whole sentences,
whole thoughts that come word for word out of that
English literature. When I say that some people write diplomatic
history and some people write military history, I'm not saying
(01:30):
that that's not the way to do it. Thank goodness,
they do it. Those are serious works by serious people
about serious subjects, and they are important. They play a
great part in the overall understanding of the past. All
I'm saying is that's not what I do. And I
also do feel that you must understand the chemistry of it.
(01:54):
You can't possibly understand the Truman administration, for example, without
understanding the nature of Harry Truman and of those people
around him. Can you imagine two different figures in our story,
at least our history, than Dean Atchison and Harry Truman.
Of course, the explanation is in both cases there was
much more there than met the eye. I think you
(02:15):
can't understand people unless you understand where they came from,
where they grew up, the vernacular, the language, the things
that you know, the sort of rules to live by,
tak to them by their parents. You know, the old
famous line of Harry Truman's if you can't stand the heat,
get out of the kitchen. That's a common expression in
Western Missouri. That's not Harry Truman. And you learn so
(02:38):
far more about life. That's why I think when students
are not interested in history. When history is poorly taught
and turns the students away, they are failing to have
it to get the chance to better understand how life works.
The role of cause and effect in life, for example, Well,
(03:00):
if they don't know about cause and effect in history,
they might not get the idea that happens in your
own life. I'll give you one of my favorite examples.
We know that transportation was very slow and difficult in
that time, and by our terms, that means inconvenience, a
nuisance discomfort. How did they put up with it? It
(03:22):
must have been so hard for them. Yes, it was
all of that. We think of transportation and communications two
different things, two different worlds. To them, it was one
because nothing could be communicated faster than somebody on a
vast horse. And if you were out of touch with
your husband, let's say, or out of touch with your
(03:44):
government back in the United States, and you were making
decisions here that were going to affect the lives of
your countrymen, your family at home, the outcome of a
deadly war. If you're going to make a decision about
whether to have your children inoculated for smallpox, and you
(04:06):
can't pick up the phone or get on the Internet
or send a fax or FedEx to get instant communication.
What does that mean. It means it increases by geometric
perforce proportions your individual burden of responsibility. You can't spread
(04:27):
the guilt or the responsibility. Abigail Adams has to decide,
I'm going to take my children in and have them
innoculated for smallpox, knowing that at best it'll make them
wretchedly ill. At worst they might die from it, some
of them. I can't call up my husband say come
on home on the next plane. We've got to do
this together. Just as when John Adams is here and
(04:48):
he decides on April nineteenth, on the anniversary of the
Battle of Lexington and Conquered, to submit his memento, his
memo to to the government here stating what he is
here for, against the diplomatic conventions and timing taking a
(05:12):
very bold, very brash, perhaps dangerous route. He doesn't he
can't call up the State Department or share his opinions
with fellow ambassadors in France or England or whatever. He
has to assume complete responsibility for it. That's different, that's
very different. They didn't live in a world of twenty
(05:35):
four hours a day news coverage. They didn't live in
a world where one's reputation could be made or broken
in twenty four hours. They didn't have anything like the
speed of transportation or communication. It was different. They lived
with death all around them all the time. Imagine going
(05:59):
to the den in the eighteenth century. Imagine sleeping in
places that were filled with lice. It was a different time.
We have no idea how tough those people were, how
hard life was for them just in ordinary times, let
(06:19):
alone in times of difficulty and stress. You can't understand
what happened without understanding them, And you can't understand them
without understanding what we would call the culture around them.
I wish there were a better word than culture. It's
too fancy, it's too precious. It means the architecture, the newspapers,
(06:40):
the music, what they ate. Do you ever notice how
few biographers ever could give their subjects a chance to
sit down and have something to eat. Do you ever
notice how few biographers ever suggest that there were many
days that were extremely boring, or to suggest that maybe
there were moments when they didn't have the faintest idea
of what to do next. That's life, and it has
(07:04):
to be understood, but you also have to understand what's
in here, just as Abigail suggested. So I want to
finish my remarks not by reading something to you about
history or about the United States of America, but about living,
about life, about a human being who once was here
(07:25):
and from whom we can learn an immense amount. In
the aftermath of September eleventh in our country, there were
people on television, people writing in the newspapers who were saying,
this is the darkest, most dangerous, most uncertain time we
have ever been through. And September eleventh was, without question
(07:50):
the worst day for our country in our history, more
so than Pearl Harbor, because Pearl Harbor was a military
target and there was some expectation that something of the
kind could conceivably happen. It wasn't a slaughter of innocent people,
just to make a point, But it isn't the darkest time,
(08:15):
not by a long shot. One of the darkest times
was the year seventeen seventy six, when Washington's army was
down to less than four thousand men, about five hundred
six hundred of whom were too sick almost to walk.
When it looked as though the war was over and
we had lost. But there were enough of them, and
(08:37):
most most conspicuously George Washington, who did not see it
that way, thank god. Another time was late nineteen forty one,
early nineteen forty two, when Hitler's armies were at Moscow,
(08:58):
when Britain was on her last legs, when we had
no army. Our recruits were drilling with wooden rifles, so
all they had. Half of our navy had been destroyed
at Pearl Harbor. We had no air force, and there
was no guarantee whatsoever that the Nazi machine could be
(09:19):
stopped and destroyed. That was a far darker time, but
there were enough people who kept the faith. And my
message is this, we are up against a foe, all
of us who believes in enforced ignorance, and we don't
(09:45):
and we never will.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And you've been listening to the late great biographer David
McCullough tell the story of why storytelling matters, particularly the
story of America and our history and the people who
helped build this country. Imperfect people all, and mc cullough
says that over and over again, we have no idea
(10:07):
how tough those people were and how hard life was
for them. And then he talks about dark times, and
we hear this over and over again to day. These
are the toughest times. America has never been more divided.
Just read seventeen seventy six, you'll feel differently. Read anything
about the Civil War and you'll know differently. Or read
about nineteen forty one and forty two, as mc cullough suggested,
(10:32):
and by the way, the new Foe mc cullough properly
identified enforced ignorance. The story of American story telling by
no better story teller about America. David mc cullough here
on our American Stories
And we continue with our American stories. And up next,
the late historian David McCullough is here to tell the
story of John Adams, and we want to thank the
John Adams Institute in the Netherlands for providing and sharing
this audio with us. This was a speech McCullough gave
before he died in the Netherlands at the institute. Here's
(00:34):
David McCullough with some of his great storytelling about our
founding fathers and why we must know our history.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
They weren't just like we are. We can never assume
they were just. They were nothing like we are in
many many ways. And one of the ways I tried
to get inside their lives was to try and read
not just what they wrote, but what they read. So
I tried to read all the writers that Abigail and
John read, Defoe, Swift, Pope, Savante, Shakespeare. And what's so
(01:10):
fascinating is to see how often they are not just
picking up ideas or turns of phrases, but whole sentences,
whole thoughts that come word for word out of that
English literature. When I say that some people write diplomatic
history and some people write military history, I'm not saying
(01:30):
that that's not the way to do it. Thank goodness,
they do it. Those are serious works by serious people
about serious subjects, and they are important. They play a
great part in the overall understanding of the past. All
I'm saying is that's not what I do. And I
also do feel that you must understand the chemistry of it.
(01:54):
You can't possibly understand the Truman administration, for example, without
understanding the nature of Harry Truman and of those people
around him. Can you imagine two different figures in our story,
at least our history, than Dean Atchison and Harry Truman.
Of course, the explanation is in both cases there was
much more there than met the eye. I think you
(02:15):
can't understand people unless you understand where they came from,
where they grew up, the vernacular, the language, the things
that you know, the sort of rules to live by,
tak to them by their parents. You know, the old
famous line of Harry Truman's if you can't stand the heat,
get out of the kitchen. That's a common expression in
Western Missouri. That's not Harry Truman. And you learn so
(02:38):
far more about life. That's why I think when students
are not interested in history. When history is poorly taught
and turns the students away, they are failing to have
it to get the chance to better understand how life works.
The role of cause and effect in life, for example, Well,
(03:00):
if they don't know about cause and effect in history,
they might not get the idea that happens in your
own life. I'll give you one of my favorite examples.
We know that transportation was very slow and difficult in
that time, and by our terms, that means inconvenience, a
nuisance discomfort. How did they put up with it? It
(03:22):
must have been so hard for them. Yes, it was
all of that. We think of transportation and communications two
different things, two different worlds. To them, it was one
because nothing could be communicated faster than somebody on a
vast horse. And if you were out of touch with
your husband, let's say, or out of touch with your
(03:44):
government back in the United States, and you were making
decisions here that were going to affect the lives of
your countrymen, your family at home, the outcome of a
deadly war. If you're going to make a decision about
whether to have your children inoculated for smallpox, and you
(04:06):
can't pick up the phone or get on the Internet
or send a fax or FedEx to get instant communication.
What does that mean. It means it increases by geometric
perforce proportions your individual burden of responsibility. You can't spread
(04:27):
the guilt or the responsibility. Abigail Adams has to decide,
I'm going to take my children in and have them
innoculated for smallpox, knowing that at best it'll make them
wretchedly ill. At worst they might die from it, some
of them. I can't call up my husband say come
on home on the next plane. We've got to do
this together. Just as when John Adams is here and
(04:48):
he decides on April nineteenth, on the anniversary of the
Battle of Lexington and Conquered, to submit his memento, his
memo to to the government here stating what he is
here for, against the diplomatic conventions and timing taking a
(05:12):
very bold, very brash, perhaps dangerous route. He doesn't he
can't call up the State Department or share his opinions
with fellow ambassadors in France or England or whatever. He
has to assume complete responsibility for it. That's different, that's
very different. They didn't live in a world of twenty
(05:35):
four hours a day news coverage. They didn't live in
a world where one's reputation could be made or broken
in twenty four hours. They didn't have anything like the
speed of transportation or communication. It was different. They lived
with death all around them all the time. Imagine going
(05:59):
to the den in the eighteenth century. Imagine sleeping in
places that were filled with lice. It was a different time.
We have no idea how tough those people were, how
hard life was for them just in ordinary times, let
(06:19):
alone in times of difficulty and stress. You can't understand
what happened without understanding them, And you can't understand them
without understanding what we would call the culture around them.
I wish there were a better word than culture. It's
too fancy, it's too precious. It means the architecture, the newspapers,
(06:40):
the music, what they ate. Do you ever notice how
few biographers ever could give their subjects a chance to
sit down and have something to eat. Do you ever
notice how few biographers ever suggest that there were many
days that were extremely boring, or to suggest that maybe
there were moments when they didn't have the faintest idea
of what to do next. That's life, and it has
(07:04):
to be understood, but you also have to understand what's
in here, just as Abigail suggested. So I want to
finish my remarks not by reading something to you about
history or about the United States of America, but about living,
about life, about a human being who once was here
(07:25):
and from whom we can learn an immense amount. In
the aftermath of September eleventh in our country, there were
people on television, people writing in the newspapers who were saying,
this is the darkest, most dangerous, most uncertain time we
have ever been through. And September eleventh was, without question
(07:50):
the worst day for our country in our history, more
so than Pearl Harbor, because Pearl Harbor was a military
target and there was some expectation that something of the
kind could conceivably happen. It wasn't a slaughter of innocent people,
just to make a point, But it isn't the darkest time,
(08:15):
not by a long shot. One of the darkest times
was the year seventeen seventy six, when Washington's army was
down to less than four thousand men, about five hundred
six hundred of whom were too sick almost to walk.
When it looked as though the war was over and
we had lost. But there were enough of them, and
(08:37):
most most conspicuously George Washington, who did not see it
that way, thank god. Another time was late nineteen forty one,
early nineteen forty two, when Hitler's armies were at Moscow,
(08:58):
when Britain was on her last legs, when we had
no army. Our recruits were drilling with wooden rifles, so
all they had. Half of our navy had been destroyed
at Pearl Harbor. We had no air force, and there
was no guarantee whatsoever that the Nazi machine could be
(09:19):
stopped and destroyed. That was a far darker time, but
there were enough people who kept the faith. And my
message is this, we are up against a foe, all
of us who believes in enforced ignorance, and we don't
(09:45):
and we never will.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And you've been listening to the late great biographer David
McCullough tell the story of why storytelling matters, particularly the
story of America and our history and the people who
helped build this country. Imperfect people all, and mc cullough
says that over and over again, we have no idea
(10:07):
how tough those people were and how hard life was
for them. And then he talks about dark times, and
we hear this over and over again to day. These
are the toughest times. America has never been more divided.
Just read seventeen seventy six, you'll feel differently. Read anything
about the Civil War and you'll know differently. Or read
about nineteen forty one and forty two, as mc cullough suggested,
(10:32):
and by the way, the new Foe mc cullough properly
identified enforced ignorance. The story of American story telling by
no better story teller about America. David mc cullough here
on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!