April 15, 2024 • 17 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, the story of the woman who said "no" to giving up her seat on a segregated Alabama bus is widely known. But here to tell the raw, real story is Rosa Parks herself.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
Up next, the story of the American woman most well
known for challenging segregation and on in the South. Here's
Felicia Bell to tell the story. She's the director of
(00:31):
the Rosa Parks Museum. You'll also be hearing from Rosa
Parks herself.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Segregation was an intense, rigid system of separating blacks and whites,
and I mean down to the cemeteries, down to the
pages in the phone books were separated by black people
and white people. So everything, every aspect of life, even
(01:01):
in entrances to buildings, the colored entrances were smaller doorways
or lower steps, separate water fountain, separate facilities for everything.
Every aspect of life was meant to keep black folks
suppressed and oppressed. So the effects of segregation on mister
(01:27):
and mssus Parks was one that they witnessed among their friends.
They saw how, for instance, she was not the first
woman black women to be arrested. They saw other women
in the community being harassed by these bus drivers. They saw,
(01:47):
you know, the effects of children being harassed. It was
just before her arrest was the Brown decision so desegregating
public schools, which did not immediately take place.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I left work on my way home December first, nineteen
fifty five, about six o'clock in the afternoon, I avoted
the bus downtown Montgomery on Coach Square. As the UH
bus proceeded out of town on the third stop, the
(02:22):
white passengers had filled the front of the bus. When
I got on the bus, the rear was filled with
UH colored passengers and they were beginning to stand. The
seat I occupied was the face of the seats where
the Negro passengers UH take as a on this route.
(02:47):
The driver noted that the front of the bus was
qu filled with white passengers and there would be of two.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Or three men standing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He looked back and at asked that the seat where
I had taken, along with three other persons, one in
the seat with me and two across I was seated.
He demanded the seats that we were occupying. The other
passengers very reluctantly gave up their seats, but I refused
(03:18):
to do so. I want to make very satan that
it is understood that I had not taken a seat
in the white section as has been reported in many cases.
The seat where I occupied, we were in the custom
of taking this seat on the way home, even though
(03:39):
at times on this on the same bus route we
occupied the same seat with white standing if there space
had been taken up, the seats had been taken up,
and I was very much surprised at the driver at
this point demanded that I removed myself from the seat.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
These bus drivers have policing powers, so they have firearms.
Sometimes these firearms actually went all phone buses, and they
had policing power to have you arrested. So when he
aksed her to give up her seat, he was actually
in the wrong because she was seated legally. That was
(04:23):
a decision mister Blake made on his own to make
her get out of her seat because she was not
seated illegally. Six months or so prior to this moment,
mssus Parks was at the Highlander Folk School in Tennessee,
and there was where she trained on UH civil disobedience
(04:48):
and UH peaceful protest. They held integrated workshops and this
was her first time in a classroom setting with white people,
and she quite enjoyed it, uh, maybe intimidated a little
bit at first, but then she really enjoyed the uh
the sessions, and that's UH where they trained and learned
about how to resist segregation and unjust laws peacefully.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
So she was already, you know, trained in that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So when the driver told her to get out of
her seat, she just simply said no. That was part
of the training to always search yourself clearly and in
simple terms. And then the driver said, if you don't
get out of your seat something til they figure, I'll
have you arrested, and.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
And then she just said, you may do that.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Fitch did And when they they came, they placed me
under wrist and I was bond bailed out shortly after
the arrest, and the trial was held December fifth, on
the next Monday, and the protest began.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
From that day.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I don't know why I wasn't, but I didn't feel afraid.
I had decided that I would have to know once
and for all what rights I had as a human
being and a citizen, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
One misconception is that Missus Parks was tired when she
got off of work and that's why.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
She didn't give up her seat. She was not.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
She didn't not give up her seat because she was tired.
She didn't give up her seat because she was resisting segregation.
And so when we say her feet were tired, it
diminishes all It just erases all of that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And you've been listening to Felicia Bell, director of the
Rosa Parks Museum in Rose, herself, tell her story. I
had to know once and for all what rights I
had as a human being, even in Montgomery, Alabama. Rosa
Park said. That's why she did what she did. She
wasn't tired, she was sick and tired. When we come back,
(07:18):
more of Rosa Park's story here on our American Stories.
Here aret our American Stories. We bring you inspiring stories
of history, sports, business, faith, and love. Stories from a
great and beautiful country that need to be told. But
(07:40):
we can't do it without you. Our stories are free
to listen to, but they're not free to make. If
you love our stories in America like we do, please
go to our American Stories dot com and click the
donate button. Give a little, give a lot, help us
keep the great American stories coming. That's our American Stories
dot Com. And we returned to Our American Stories and
(08:12):
to Felicia Bell, director of the Rosa Parks Museum, and
we're picking up with Rosa Parks herself.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I hadn't thought that I would be the person to
do this say, it hadn't occurred to me in our area.
We always try to avoid trouble and be as careful
as possible to stay out of trouble in alongest line.
The time had just come when I had been pushed
as far as I could stand to be pushed.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
From the time of the rest on Thursday night and
Friday and Saturday and Sunday, the wood had gotten around
over Montgomery of my arrest because of this incident, and
people just begin to decide that they wouldn't uh ride
the bus. On the day of my trial, which was Monday,
(09:06):
December fifth, and the Monday morning, when the buses were
out on their regular run, they remained empty and people
were walking uh getting rides and cars with people who
had picked them up as best they could. On Monday night,
(09:27):
the mass meeting at the.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Whole Street Baptist Church had.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Been called and there were many thousand people there. They
kept coming and some people never did get in the church.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There were so many and the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
First day of remaining off the bus had been so successful.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
It was organized then that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We wouldn't uh ride the bus until our requests had
been granted.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The Montgomery Improvement Association met had a mass meeting at
Whole Street Baptist Church, and a young pastor of Dexter
Avenue Church who was new in town and had a
young family and a wife. He was there as well,
and his name was doctor Martin Luther King, and he
(10:23):
led the meet.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Let it come to a person my part and my
mother comes down. They bounds reach integrity. My mother comes down.
That nobody comes down. I put the commitment of the
child to the teaching to desright, not hap the sin
(10:52):
of her happened. It happened to a person serving in
the community. The fine could be a person. I trun
yet that a and tim the entire for that, and
turned across the with to get off. What a rush,
(11:16):
you know, not that comfort tie. What people got talking over.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
At this mass meeting.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Also they decided what demands they wanted out of this.
What would be a boycott, a three hundred and eighty
two day boycott. So one of those demands was to
be treated with respect as passengers. Then also they wanted
African American men to be hired as bus drivers on
city buses, so that was actually a job for a
(11:52):
white men. Black men couldn't be bus drivers, so that
was one of their demands. And thirdly, they wanted first come,
first serve seating on buses.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I feel they kept on walking because I was not
the only person who had been mistreated and humiliated. Others
had gone through the same experience, some even waste experience
than mind, and they all felt that the time had
come that they should decide that we would have to
(12:29):
stop supporting the bus company until we were given better service.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All four seasons of weather, walking in the rain and
the cold and the heat, taking carpools, and there were
all kinds of obstacles in terms of taxis being banned
or insurance companies not ensuring taxis, so they couldn't have
taxi services. So they set up a system of pick
(13:02):
up locations through the city and you could catch a
ride in what were called rolling churches. So these were
station wagons with the names of churches on the side
of them, where the churches sponsored that station wagon, and
then you would be picked up and then rather than
paying that driver, which that would make it a taxi
(13:23):
and illegal. You would just put money in the offering
of a church on Sunday that was on the side
of the vehicle. So then that way that money paid
for the gas and the maintenance and the driver and
so they There was strategy involved with the protest and
they met frequently. It wasn't just we're not going to
(13:45):
ride the buses. There was a lot of strategy involved
in the process and making it successful.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Wanton that we are not here advocating violence. We beloved
them back to be I wanted to be known some
I had left this nation that we are Christian people.
We believe in the Christian religion. We believe in the
(14:24):
teachings of Jesus. I'm the one that he had words
that even he is a worman of pect that would
be nobody met the mon who would stand up and
define the constitution of this nation. We on the symbol
(14:44):
here you talking out a violence to see right and ship.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For Missus Parks.
Speaker 7 (14:54):
How did it happen to become the kind of religious
movement it became. We seem to understand it as a
kind of a religious movement. There's the talking of walking
and praying, there's the the whole appeal to the religious
peaceful aspects, and of course a number of ministers have
taken a very active part in the leadership.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
How did this come about?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think this came about because the ministers were very
much interested in it, and we had our meetings in
the churches and we felt that nothing could be gained
by violence or threats of a belligerent attitude. We believed
(15:41):
that more could be accomplished through the non violent passive resistance.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
We had no carl with anyone. We only want to.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Stop riding the buses until we are treated as any
other passenger.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really, the civil rights movement in general, I think you
could say was largely led by people who were very
faith conscious.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
You know, from doctor King on down.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
There were many people clerical members who were leaders in
the movement and in general, I think the sense of
faith and the principles of Christianity, I think is what
shaped the nonviolent civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Dericott, and a special thanks to
Felicia Bell, director of the Rosa Parks Museum, and it
was so good to hear from Rosa Parks herself and
a very young pastor at the time at the Dexter
Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery. He would become the Martin
Luther King we all know there he was young and
(16:58):
leading and leading the Christian way that was demanding, commanding
that we do it Jesus's way, and that is the
nonviolent way. And as Rosa Parks also added, belligerence wasn't
going to get us anywhere. And my goodness, the role
of the church has served shuttling people back and forth
from work, because how was one to get from here
(17:20):
to there in a city without getting on its bus
or buses and this was a year long bus boycott,
and without the role of the church playing not only
a spiritual part, but also a logistics part, a strategic part. Again,
the role of faith in this country can never ever
(17:40):
be underestimated. The story of Rosa Parks, the woman who
took on segregation here on our American Stories
This is Lee Habib and this is our American Stories,
the show where America is the star and the American people.
Up next, the story of the American woman most well
known for challenging segregation and on in the South. Here's
Felicia Bell to tell the story. She's the director of
(00:31):
the Rosa Parks Museum. You'll also be hearing from Rosa
Parks herself.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Segregation was an intense, rigid system of separating blacks and whites,
and I mean down to the cemeteries, down to the
pages in the phone books were separated by black people
and white people. So everything, every aspect of life, even
(01:01):
in entrances to buildings, the colored entrances were smaller doorways
or lower steps, separate water fountain, separate facilities for everything.
Every aspect of life was meant to keep black folks
suppressed and oppressed. So the effects of segregation on mister
(01:27):
and mssus Parks was one that they witnessed among their friends.
They saw how, for instance, she was not the first
woman black women to be arrested. They saw other women
in the community being harassed by these bus drivers. They saw,
(01:47):
you know, the effects of children being harassed. It was
just before her arrest was the Brown decision so desegregating
public schools, which did not immediately take place.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I left work on my way home December first, nineteen
fifty five, about six o'clock in the afternoon, I avoted
the bus downtown Montgomery on Coach Square. As the UH
bus proceeded out of town on the third stop, the
(02:22):
white passengers had filled the front of the bus. When
I got on the bus, the rear was filled with
UH colored passengers and they were beginning to stand. The
seat I occupied was the face of the seats where
the Negro passengers UH take as a on this route.
(02:47):
The driver noted that the front of the bus was
qu filled with white passengers and there would be of two.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Or three men standing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
He looked back and at asked that the seat where
I had taken, along with three other persons, one in
the seat with me and two across I was seated.
He demanded the seats that we were occupying. The other
passengers very reluctantly gave up their seats, but I refused
(03:18):
to do so. I want to make very satan that
it is understood that I had not taken a seat
in the white section as has been reported in many cases.
The seat where I occupied, we were in the custom
of taking this seat on the way home, even though
(03:39):
at times on this on the same bus route we
occupied the same seat with white standing if there space
had been taken up, the seats had been taken up,
and I was very much surprised at the driver at
this point demanded that I removed myself from the seat.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
These bus drivers have policing powers, so they have firearms.
Sometimes these firearms actually went all phone buses, and they
had policing power to have you arrested. So when he
aksed her to give up her seat, he was actually
in the wrong because she was seated legally. That was
(04:23):
a decision mister Blake made on his own to make
her get out of her seat because she was not
seated illegally. Six months or so prior to this moment,
mssus Parks was at the Highlander Folk School in Tennessee,
and there was where she trained on UH civil disobedience
(04:48):
and UH peaceful protest. They held integrated workshops and this
was her first time in a classroom setting with white people,
and she quite enjoyed it, uh, maybe intimidated a little
bit at first, but then she really enjoyed the uh
the sessions, and that's UH where they trained and learned
about how to resist segregation and unjust laws peacefully.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
So she was already, you know, trained in that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So when the driver told her to get out of
her seat, she just simply said no. That was part
of the training to always search yourself clearly and in
simple terms. And then the driver said, if you don't
get out of your seat something til they figure, I'll
have you arrested, and.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
And then she just said, you may do that.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Fitch did And when they they came, they placed me
under wrist and I was bond bailed out shortly after
the arrest, and the trial was held December fifth, on
the next Monday, and the protest began.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
From that day.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I don't know why I wasn't, but I didn't feel afraid.
I had decided that I would have to know once
and for all what rights I had as a human
being and a citizen, even in Montgomery, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
One misconception is that Missus Parks was tired when she
got off of work and that's why.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
She didn't give up her seat. She was not.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
She didn't not give up her seat because she was tired.
She didn't give up her seat because she was resisting segregation.
And so when we say her feet were tired, it
diminishes all It just erases all of that.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And you've been listening to Felicia Bell, director of the
Rosa Parks Museum in Rose, herself, tell her story. I
had to know once and for all what rights I
had as a human being, even in Montgomery, Alabama. Rosa
Park said. That's why she did what she did. She
wasn't tired, she was sick and tired. When we come back,
(07:18):
more of Rosa Park's story here on our American Stories.
Here aret our American Stories. We bring you inspiring stories
of history, sports, business, faith, and love. Stories from a
great and beautiful country that need to be told. But
(07:40):
we can't do it without you. Our stories are free
to listen to, but they're not free to make. If
you love our stories in America like we do, please
go to our American Stories dot com and click the
donate button. Give a little, give a lot, help us
keep the great American stories coming. That's our American Stories
dot Com. And we returned to Our American Stories and
(08:12):
to Felicia Bell, director of the Rosa Parks Museum, and
we're picking up with Rosa Parks herself.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I hadn't thought that I would be the person to
do this say, it hadn't occurred to me in our area.
We always try to avoid trouble and be as careful
as possible to stay out of trouble in alongest line.
The time had just come when I had been pushed
as far as I could stand to be pushed.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I suppose.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
From the time of the rest on Thursday night and
Friday and Saturday and Sunday, the wood had gotten around
over Montgomery of my arrest because of this incident, and
people just begin to decide that they wouldn't uh ride
the bus. On the day of my trial, which was Monday,
(09:06):
December fifth, and the Monday morning, when the buses were
out on their regular run, they remained empty and people
were walking uh getting rides and cars with people who
had picked them up as best they could. On Monday night,
(09:27):
the mass meeting at the.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Whole Street Baptist Church had.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Been called and there were many thousand people there. They
kept coming and some people never did get in the church.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
There were so many and the.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
First day of remaining off the bus had been so successful.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
It was organized then that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We wouldn't uh ride the bus until our requests had
been granted.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
The Montgomery Improvement Association met had a mass meeting at
Whole Street Baptist Church, and a young pastor of Dexter
Avenue Church who was new in town and had a
young family and a wife. He was there as well,
and his name was doctor Martin Luther King, and he
(10:23):
led the meet.
Speaker 6 (10:28):
Let it come to a person my part and my
mother comes down. They bounds reach integrity. My mother comes down.
That nobody comes down. I put the commitment of the
child to the teaching to desright, not hap the sin
(10:52):
of her happened. It happened to a person serving in
the community. The fine could be a person. I trun
yet that a and tim the entire for that, and
turned across the with to get off. What a rush,
(11:16):
you know, not that comfort tie. What people got talking over.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
At this mass meeting.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Also they decided what demands they wanted out of this.
What would be a boycott, a three hundred and eighty
two day boycott. So one of those demands was to
be treated with respect as passengers. Then also they wanted
African American men to be hired as bus drivers on
city buses, so that was actually a job for a
(11:52):
white men. Black men couldn't be bus drivers, so that
was one of their demands. And thirdly, they wanted first come,
first serve seating on buses.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I feel they kept on walking because I was not
the only person who had been mistreated and humiliated. Others
had gone through the same experience, some even waste experience
than mind, and they all felt that the time had
come that they should decide that we would have to
(12:29):
stop supporting the bus company until we were given better service.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
All four seasons of weather, walking in the rain and
the cold and the heat, taking carpools, and there were
all kinds of obstacles in terms of taxis being banned
or insurance companies not ensuring taxis, so they couldn't have
taxi services. So they set up a system of pick
(13:02):
up locations through the city and you could catch a
ride in what were called rolling churches. So these were
station wagons with the names of churches on the side
of them, where the churches sponsored that station wagon, and
then you would be picked up and then rather than
paying that driver, which that would make it a taxi
(13:23):
and illegal. You would just put money in the offering
of a church on Sunday that was on the side
of the vehicle. So then that way that money paid
for the gas and the maintenance and the driver and
so they There was strategy involved with the protest and
they met frequently. It wasn't just we're not going to
(13:45):
ride the buses. There was a lot of strategy involved
in the process and making it successful.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Wanton that we are not here advocating violence. We beloved
them back to be I wanted to be known some
I had left this nation that we are Christian people.
We believe in the Christian religion. We believe in the
(14:24):
teachings of Jesus. I'm the one that he had words
that even he is a worman of pect that would
be nobody met the mon who would stand up and
define the constitution of this nation. We on the symbol
(14:44):
here you talking out a violence to see right and ship.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
For Missus Parks.
Speaker 7 (14:54):
How did it happen to become the kind of religious
movement it became. We seem to understand it as a
kind of a religious movement. There's the talking of walking
and praying, there's the the whole appeal to the religious
peaceful aspects, and of course a number of ministers have
taken a very active part in the leadership.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
How did this come about?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I think this came about because the ministers were very
much interested in it, and we had our meetings in
the churches and we felt that nothing could be gained
by violence or threats of a belligerent attitude. We believed
(15:41):
that more could be accomplished through the non violent passive resistance.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
We had no carl with anyone. We only want to.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Stop riding the buses until we are treated as any
other passenger.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Really, the civil rights movement in general, I think you
could say was largely led by people who were very
faith conscious.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
You know, from doctor King on down.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
There were many people clerical members who were leaders in
the movement and in general, I think the sense of
faith and the principles of Christianity, I think is what
shaped the nonviolent civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And a terrific job on the production, editing and storytelling
by our own Madison Dericott, and a special thanks to
Felicia Bell, director of the Rosa Parks Museum, and it
was so good to hear from Rosa Parks herself and
a very young pastor at the time at the Dexter
Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery. He would become the Martin
Luther King we all know there he was young and
(16:58):
leading and leading the Christian way that was demanding, commanding
that we do it Jesus's way, and that is the
nonviolent way. And as Rosa Parks also added, belligerence wasn't
going to get us anywhere. And my goodness, the role
of the church has served shuttling people back and forth
from work, because how was one to get from here
(17:20):
to there in a city without getting on its bus
or buses and this was a year long bus boycott,
and without the role of the church playing not only
a spiritual part, but also a logistics part, a strategic part. Again,
the role of faith in this country can never ever
(17:40):
be underestimated. The story of Rosa Parks, the woman who
took on segregation here on our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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