February 19, 2025 • 30 mins
On this episode of Our American Stories, it’s a well-known bit of movie trivia that all 5 films in which actor John Cazale appeared were nominated for Best Picture, and three of them received the Oscar. John Cazale played one of the most iconic characters in film history: Fredo Corleone from The Godfather. Yet today, most people don’t know his name. Here to tell this story is Jonjo Powers, author of A Small Perfection: John Cazale and the Art of Acting.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Cazal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Cazal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Cazal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
first moment I saw John Cazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once in
(01:31):
future legends of film acting, Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duvald,
James Kahn, Talia Shier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
One by one.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
The major characters are featured for a moment or two,
which brilliantly sets up the story. The last of them
we meet is Fredo. Naturally, in a family of strong
termin men, he's the weak one, the run to the litter,
He's the forgotten one. I remember when the camera finally
fell on John Cazal as Fredo. I immediately thought, who
(02:11):
is this guy? In a scene populated by so many
wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting. He was just Fredo,
an ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances, the guy we wouldn't
think twice about if he weren't so perfectly out of place.
Is one of the many ironies of John's life that
(02:32):
this fellow who never seemed to be acting, was in
fact one of the greatest actors in cinematic history. In
the following six years, I would see him four more times.
I found his portrayals riveting. His acting was audacious in
the company of some of the most celebrated actors of
the age. I always considered him to be their equal.
(02:55):
Often they're better among the lovers and the heroes and
the villains. He the unforgettable, forgotten one, the easy to
pass over one, the weakling, the loser. He was the
one in relief, set back from the spotlight when everyone
else gathered in the center of the screen. John roamed
the lonely edges, finding truth in each step, and he
(03:18):
was fascinating in the process. John Cazal led a short,
ironic life. He was primarily a stage actor, but made
his feature film debut in one of the most influential
films in cinematic history. It's a rather well known bit
of trivia that John is the only actor with multiple
roles to appear in only films that were nominated for
(03:42):
Best Picture, and every actor with whom he worked, people
like Paccino, De Niro, Hackman, and Streap, all said the
same thing. Working with John made them better. Yet most
audiences don't even know his name. Everything about John's participation
in The Godfather is drenched in irony. He was seen
(04:03):
by director Francis Ford Coppola in an off Broadway play
called Line. Francis thought he was perfect for Fredo, and
he was right. But at the same time, John's actor
friend Al Pacino was having a very hard time holding
on to the lead part of Michael, and the studio
was completely opposed to the casting of one of John's idols,
(04:24):
Marlon Brando in the title role. For weeks, Francis, Marlon,
and Al were always in danger of being replaced, but
John was safe from the start. Who cares about Fredo.
It's another irony that in a film that runs just
under three hours and in which he's only on screen
for about ten minutes, John has as much impact as
(04:47):
the leads. He took the part that no other actor
would choose, and by virtue of his portrayal, turned it
into the role every actor wished he had played. He
stood equal to all the other brothers in the Colling
Owned family, with as much importance to the story as Sonny,
Tom or Michael, but with a lot less screen time.
(05:08):
Even so, he made Fredo truly iconic. After the movie
was released, there was a joke that circulated for years.
Someone would say something like, in our group, you're Fredo,
and everyone would laugh because everyone knew.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
What that meant.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Weak, stupid, ineffectual. No one had to explain the joke.
It was clear and vivid because John Cazal made Fredo
clear and vivid and very human. John excelled at bringing
his characters to full human life. As al Pacino said,
he really occupied the space, meaning his characters had height, width,
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and depth. He never seemed to be acting at all.
In fact, he was so convincing as Fredo the casting
directors often couldn't see him any other way. Meryl Streep,
his co star on stage and on screen, and his
lover off, described his gifts perfectly, saying that he felt
a responsibility to the fictional character as if it were
(06:08):
a real soul. What a great sense of humanity for
an actor to have.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
He was such a special human being and a uniquely
talented actor. His compassion for his people that he was portraying,
and the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional
character as if it were a real soul that made
him go that deep into his characters and do beautiful,
(06:37):
beautiful work.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis Ford.
Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He revised
a screenplay he was writing for his next film, adding
the part of an assistant to the main character, specific
(07:00):
for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation, John
does the hardest thing an actor can do. He plays
a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks, just
a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't detract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated as Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two, the continuing
story of the Corleone family which was in fact both
a sequel and a prequot. As a further testament to
(08:11):
John's talents, Francis and Mario Puzo, the co writer of
the films based on his novel, move the character of
Fredo into the center of the action. For those of
us who loved John's acting, I call us cazellots. This
film gave us what we were craving, the chance to
see far more of John's unerring talents and to see
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how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If the
Godfather saga, comprised of all three films, is the story
of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also be
considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who grow
and change the most. Fredo is a prince that will
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never see the throne. He will never be head of
the family, but will do instead the bidding of his
younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is the
stuff of high drama. It's Shakespearean and its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal that includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corleone brothers becomes the
most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that promises
that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you've been listening to John Joe Powers, author of
A Small Perfection, John Kissal and the Art of Acting.
When we come back more of the story of John Kasal,
an American icon, an actor's actor here on our American stories.
(10:09):
And we returned to our American stories. Here again is
Joan Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Cazal
and the Art of Acting. Let's pick up where we
left off with Kazu's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now, if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
We just suddenly shout, I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want to respect. It
was Fredo's pathetic protests when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
(10:45):
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John Knewfredo
would never go toe to toe with Michael, so he
played the whole thing laying in a lounge chair like
a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to stand up,
and it's one of the most famous scenes in cinematic history.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
I've always taken care of you, Breda taken care of me.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
You're my kid, brother, you take care of me. Do
you ever think about that? Do you ever once think
about that? Save Fredo?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Off to do this?
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Sen Fredo, Off to do that? Sen Fredo to pick
somebody up at the airport. I mean your older brother, Mike,
and I was stepped over. Ain't the way I wanted it.
I can handle things. I'm smart. Like everybody says like dumb,
(11:45):
I'm smart and I want to spect.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Three films into his movie career, and John was showing
just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews in
award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo. He was passed over,
but it was impossible to ignore him. In his next film,
many believe it may be his crowning achievement in movies.
And it almost didn't happen because ironically, he was wrong
(12:11):
for the part. Dawn Day Afternoon was based on a
real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Into a hostage situation.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The film was developed as a vehicle for al Pacino,
who by then was one of the hottest stars in movies.
Al had a slight resemblance to the actual robber, but
in real life, the enforcer, the gunman who assisted the robbery,
was an eighteen year old kid named Sal. Sidney Lmett,
the brilliant director, was determined to make the film as
(12:42):
realistic as possible, building a replica of the bank in
an abandoned store, lighting the interior with fluorescent bulbs, and
even asking the actors playing the bank personnel to bring
in their own wardrobes from home. To find just the
right actor for Sal, he auditioned every eighteen year old
actor he could find. Then al Pacino made a suggestion
(13:05):
read John Cazell for the part. Well, Sidney was hesitant,
feeling the same actor who had convinced the world he
was Fredo Corleone who was completely wrong, and he was
too old thirty nine at the time of filming. Still
Sidney had a great relationship with Al, having just directed
him two years prior in serproco So. John read three
(13:25):
lines for the skeptical director and Sidney relented.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
He broke my heart. The director later confessed.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I remember we were casting and Sidney Laman wanted a
a nineteen year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
I'd been reading a lot of people for it, and
Al kept asking me to read John.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
So of course Sidney think, with John, that's not what
I'm thinking. John Gizell no, the guy who did Fredo.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
No.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
Finally, because I've got such respect for Al, John came in.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Is stunned. He could not have looked wronger.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
And then he read and it was just the most
extraordinary connection, heartbreaking a scene and what are we talking about?
Talking about a totally anti social and properly terrible man
and Cazal broke your heart.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Despite diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a
character unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against
the rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is
unpredictable in the truest sense of the word. Tightly wound,
with a history of military service and prison in isolation.
(14:43):
No one, not even al Paccinos Sonny, can know what
he's thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the
ticking time bomb that gives the film its relentless suspense,
and strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart.
One of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
(15:04):
even love from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
a professional voyeur. Yet somehow we have affection for each
(15:24):
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
(15:45):
was his gift for explorations so completely demonstrated that in
sal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even and our inexplicable urge is to
know what had wounded him so savagely. We want to
get to know the guy with the gun better. Ironically,
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we never do. There's no big moment for sal when
he reveals his pain. Instead, as the situation grows more
and more desperate, he retreats further and further into himself,
growing ever more still, ever more quiet, and ever more dangerous.
Dog Day Afternoon, like the previous films in which John appeared,
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was nominated for both the Golden Globe and the Oscar
for Best Picture, And like the three previous times, there
was no Oscar nomination for John, but the Golden Globes
gave him his only nomination for a movie where when
they put him up as Best Supporting Actor, Richard Benjamin
took home the.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Award that year.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
If the lack of award recognition bothered John, he didn't
complain much about it. He was far more interested in
art than an awards. While making his final film, he
was asked about it and responded by saying, if you
have any inclines, a nation toward paranoia, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
We'll bring it out in you.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You say, what do I have to do to get
recognition of that sort, But then you put it back
in perspective and ask yourself how much that or any
award really matters in one respect. I'm sorry awards can
generate other work. No actor knew as much about being
a supporting actor. That was never truer than in Dog
(17:25):
Day Afternoon, in which his sal urged al Pacino to
one of his greatest portrayals.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I've done a lot of work with John, so I know.
I did a lot of theater with John, and he
became whoever it was he was playing. And John would
be afraid of you believe that's who he was, of course,
and I watched him do it every role I did
dog Day with him. I did several plays with him,
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and it was amazing to watch. It was a lesson
in itself. I think I learned more about acting from
John than anybody.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening
to and you're hearing the story of John Kazell as
told by Jean jo Powers. His book A Small Perfection,
John Kazell and the Art of Acting is available at
Amazon and all the usual suspects. John never judged the
men he played. He understood them, and it's so true
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and at its best, that's what acting is. It's an
exercise in superhuman empathy. When we come back more of
this remarkable life story, and if you get a chance
with your family, watch Godfather one, then watch Godfather two.
I mean at the age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean.
The acting is remarkable. The discussion points for a family,
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they don't get better. What is the nature of man?
What is good? What is evil? This is not a
movie that glamorizes evil. There are consequences. The story of
John Cazell, his work and his profession. Here on our
American stories. And we returned to our American stories, Let's
(19:41):
return to John Joe Power as author of a small perfection,
John Cazelle and the Art of Acting. Powers picks up
his story with John and his dog Day Afternoon co
star Al Pacino.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
One of the great joys of the film is to
see these two actors, who had so much trust than
each other, engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all
he wanted to do was to act with John for
the rest of his life. In fact, he admitted that
John was not only his dear friend and acting partner,
but He was one of his acting idols, so much
(20:16):
so that when John came to sel on Broadway, Pacino
went overboard and trying to impress him.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I was doing a play called The Basic Training of
Pablo Humble on Broadway and it was a really great
role and I had done things with it and I
had done the Tony Ward and I was really but
John was coming to see it. And I don't like
to know when anyone's in the house, but I knew
(20:46):
John was in the house right And every single thing
I did, every scene, I was trying to impress John,
and I knew I'm doing this, I'm saying this, I'm
not doing this, so I'm trying to impress John. You
and uh, it was over and I was really unhappy
(21:06):
because I knew I hadn't done.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And John came back.
Speaker 8 (21:11):
He said, very impressive, very impressive. Yes, yeah, I said,
you know what I said. He was so graceful though,
he was so gracious about it all. But I said,
you know, I knew you were there, and I was
trying to I've been doing everything twice as much as
I had to do it.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, he says, it was good. I was good. It
was good, so you don't know.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
You don't realize that you know you've been doing it.
But I knew I had, so I was very you know,
he was like one of my idols, so that when
he was coming to see me, it was And that's
the worst thing you could do is try to impress
your your friends who you love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Ironically, dog Day Afternoon, their greatest of all on screen pairings,
would be their last. The next year, John and Al
would appear together on stage for a final time, ten
years after they shared their acting breakthroughs. That same year,
nineteen seventy six, John shared the stage with another actor
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whose work would become legendary. While in rehearsals, he confided
to Al that he had met the greatest actress in
the history of the world. Her name was Meryl Streep,
and she was at the start of a career in
quickly gaining a reputation that supported John's assessment. During the
production of Measure for Measure, John and Merrill fell in
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love and moved in together. Their lives on stage and
off were colored by a devotion for one another that
intrigued both audiences and friends. At forty one, John was
a bona fide actor with a rapidly growing reputation on
stage and on screen. He was beloved by his friends
and in love with Meryl Streep, and he was on
(23:00):
his way to Broadway. But irony can be cruel. John
played the first preview in the title role of the
Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he began to cough up blood.
He never returned to the show. An obsessive smoker, John
was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer. One of his
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first concerns was will they let me work? As it
turned out they would one last time. Robert De Niro
and Michael Chimino were preparing The Deer Hunter, an epic
film about a group of friends who work in the
steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives were changed
by their service in the Vietnam War. For the role
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of Stan, a braggart who is always trying to be
a bigger man than he's capable of being. Both wanted
John Cazal. As talks about his participation went on. There
was good news and bad news. The good news was
that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep agreed
to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a girlfriend
(24:03):
to one of the main characters. In order to stay
close to John during the shooting, Chimino offered a letter
develop the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convinced the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn off, putting all of John's scenes. It's
the first to be filmed in the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven. They begin shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time,
John Cazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint to his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again as a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
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on the screen. Once his and Merril's scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
(25:33):
would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world received her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Goe of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
(25:55):
his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
(26:16):
losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Khazalic Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year before. For John, in two thousand and nine,
the filmmaker Richard Sheppard directed to documentary appropriately short called
I Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John kazal The publicity
from the film generated scores of appreciative essays. Then, in
twenty fifteen, a Czech Film festival celebrated John's legacy at
(27:22):
their fiftieth anniversary by running that documentary along with The
Godfather Part two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the
same year I published my book A Small Perfection, John
Kazl in the Art of Acting. It coincided with the
eightieth anniversary of John's birth. I had by then watched
(27:43):
the five films in which John had acted over and
over for years and had realized that, aside from being
five of the best portrayals in screen history, there were
lessons in John's work every actor should learn. It's intentionally
not a biolography, although it has some biographical notes, But
(28:03):
I found myself reluctant to delve too deeply into his
personal life. John, like Vincent before him, was an artist.
If you really want to know an artist, you look
at his work. That's where you'll find the truest biography.
John and Vincent both had their legacies deepened by premature death.
(28:24):
They were halted at perfection and left us without explanation
of their art nor a need for it. John Kazu
left us at the height of his promise, with all
of the anticipation of his next appearance still thick in
the air. All of us who love acting and love
his acting will try forever to describe that deep, intangible
(28:47):
essence of John Kazu. If you want to know about him,
watch us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility
he displayed as an actor is all we really need
to see in order to know the man he was.
The rest is just a mystery, but mystery is what
(29:07):
keeps us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps
actors alive.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And a terrific job on the production. The editing by
our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to John
Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John cazal and
The Art of Acting. And I was a young actor
in the early nineteen eighties for a very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
(29:36):
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep and measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more respected
and revered than John. The Vincent Van Goh of acting.
Both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
(29:58):
of an Actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazale his story here on
Our American Stories
And we continue with our American stories. It's a well
known bit of movie trivia that all five films in
which actor John Cazal appeared were nominated for Best Picture,
three of them received the Oscar. Furthermore, he appeared posthumously
in archival footage in The Godfather Part Three, which was
(00:32):
also nominated for Best Picture, maintaining his perfect record. He's
the only actor in American history to have this distinction.
John Cazal played one of the most iconic characters in
film history, Fredo Corleone from The Godfather, yet today most
people don't even know his name. Here to tell this
(00:54):
story is John Joe Powers, author of a small Perfection,
John Cazal and the Art of Acting. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Even though it's been fifty years, I still remember the
first moment I saw John Cazal. I had gone, like
most of the planet had gone, to see The Godfather,
a movie that had exploded onto the popular culture. If
you were a young actor in the seventies, as I was,
it was mandatory viewing because it showcased the once in
(01:31):
future legends of film acting, Marlon Brando al Pacino, Robert Duvald,
James Kahn, Talia Shier, Diane Keaton, so many who would
go on to other great performances. In the opening wedding
scene were introduced to the main players in the film.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
One by one.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
The major characters are featured for a moment or two,
which brilliantly sets up the story. The last of them
we meet is Fredo. Naturally, in a family of strong
termin men, he's the weak one, the run to the litter,
He's the forgotten one. I remember when the camera finally
fell on John Cazal as Fredo. I immediately thought, who
(02:11):
is this guy? In a scene populated by so many
wonderful actors. This guy wasn't acting. He was just Fredo,
an ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances, the guy we wouldn't
think twice about if he weren't so perfectly out of place.
Is one of the many ironies of John's life that
(02:32):
this fellow who never seemed to be acting, was in
fact one of the greatest actors in cinematic history. In
the following six years, I would see him four more times.
I found his portrayals riveting. His acting was audacious in
the company of some of the most celebrated actors of
the age. I always considered him to be their equal.
(02:55):
Often they're better among the lovers and the heroes and
the villains. He the unforgettable, forgotten one, the easy to
pass over one, the weakling, the loser. He was the
one in relief, set back from the spotlight when everyone
else gathered in the center of the screen. John roamed
the lonely edges, finding truth in each step, and he
(03:18):
was fascinating in the process. John Cazal led a short,
ironic life. He was primarily a stage actor, but made
his feature film debut in one of the most influential
films in cinematic history. It's a rather well known bit
of trivia that John is the only actor with multiple
roles to appear in only films that were nominated for
(03:42):
Best Picture, and every actor with whom he worked, people
like Paccino, De Niro, Hackman, and Streap, all said the
same thing. Working with John made them better. Yet most
audiences don't even know his name. Everything about John's participation
in The Godfather is drenched in irony. He was seen
(04:03):
by director Francis Ford Coppola in an off Broadway play
called Line. Francis thought he was perfect for Fredo, and
he was right. But at the same time, John's actor
friend Al Pacino was having a very hard time holding
on to the lead part of Michael, and the studio
was completely opposed to the casting of one of John's idols,
(04:24):
Marlon Brando in the title role. For weeks, Francis, Marlon,
and Al were always in danger of being replaced, but
John was safe from the start. Who cares about Fredo.
It's another irony that in a film that runs just
under three hours and in which he's only on screen
for about ten minutes, John has as much impact as
(04:47):
the leads. He took the part that no other actor
would choose, and by virtue of his portrayal, turned it
into the role every actor wished he had played. He
stood equal to all the other brothers in the Colling
Owned family, with as much importance to the story as Sonny,
Tom or Michael, but with a lot less screen time.
(05:08):
Even so, he made Fredo truly iconic. After the movie
was released, there was a joke that circulated for years.
Someone would say something like, in our group, you're Fredo,
and everyone would laugh because everyone knew.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
What that meant.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Weak, stupid, ineffectual. No one had to explain the joke.
It was clear and vivid because John Cazal made Fredo
clear and vivid and very human. John excelled at bringing
his characters to full human life. As al Pacino said,
he really occupied the space, meaning his characters had height, width,
(05:48):
and depth. He never seemed to be acting at all.
In fact, he was so convincing as Fredo the casting
directors often couldn't see him any other way. Meryl Streep,
his co star on stage and on screen, and his
lover off, described his gifts perfectly, saying that he felt
a responsibility to the fictional character as if it were
(06:08):
a real soul. What a great sense of humanity for
an actor to have.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
He was such a special human being and a uniquely
talented actor. His compassion for his people that he was portraying,
and the sort of responsibility he felt to a fictional
character as if it were a real soul that made
him go that deep into his characters and do beautiful,
(06:37):
beautiful work.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
After The Godfather wrapped, it was entirely possible that John
might have returned to New York and worked the rest
of his life on stage in relative obscurity. But Francis Ford.
Coppola knew he had discovered a unique talent. He revised
a screenplay he was writing for his next film, adding
the part of an assistant to the main character, specific
(07:00):
for John to play as Stan. In The Conversation, John
does the hardest thing an actor can do. He plays
a guy who's just normal. No eccentricities, no quirks, just
a guy who goes to work and does his job.
Actors are so inclined to do something that they often
are unable just to be normal. It's deep within us
(07:24):
to want to be noticed. But John had a way
of being normal that made it impossible for an audience
to overlook him. He was life in the midst of performance.
He was reality in the midst of naturalness. Far from
stealing the scene, John instead enriched it. He didn't detract
anything from the other actors by creating vivid characters, he
(07:47):
added to their reality. Coppola would find himself competing against
himself at the Golden Globes and the Oscars in nineteen
seventy five. The Conversation was nominated as Best Picture for
both awards, as was The Godfather Part two, the continuing
story of the Corleone family which was in fact both
a sequel and a prequot. As a further testament to
(08:11):
John's talents, Francis and Mario Puzo, the co writer of
the films based on his novel, move the character of
Fredo into the center of the action. For those of
us who loved John's acting, I call us cazellots. This
film gave us what we were craving, the chance to
see far more of John's unerring talents and to see
(08:32):
how the rest of Fredo's story played out. If the
Godfather saga, comprised of all three films, is the story
of Michael Corleone, the first two parts can also be
considered Fredo's story. They are the two characters who grow
and change the most. Fredo is a prince that will
(08:52):
never see the throne. He will never be head of
the family, but will do instead the bidding of his
younger brother, and he secretly resents it. This is the
stuff of high drama. It's Shakespearean and its structure. The
man who sits in the seat of absolute power is
betrayed by those around him. To retain his kingdom, he
(09:14):
must destroy many of his subjects, all those he fears
may be disloyal that includes his brother. In another ironic twist,
the least threatening of all the Corleone brothers becomes the
most dangerous when he's talked into a deal that promises
that there might be something in it for him. Instead,
(09:34):
he becomes a traitor to his family.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you've been listening to John Joe Powers, author of
A Small Perfection, John Kissal and the Art of Acting.
When we come back more of the story of John Kasal,
an American icon, an actor's actor here on our American stories.
(10:09):
And we returned to our American stories. Here again is
Joan Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John Cazal
and the Art of Acting. Let's pick up where we
left off with Kazu's performance as Fredo in Godfather Too.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Now, if a joke came from John's first appearance as Fredo,
this one brought an imitation that was no less repeated.
We just suddenly shout, I'm smart, not like people say
like dumb. I'm smart and I want to respect. It
was Fredo's pathetic protests when Michael confronts him about his betrayal.
(10:45):
Most actors would want to be up on their feet
and in Michael's face to play a scene in which
they finally get to vent their frustration. But John Knewfredo
would never go toe to toe with Michael, so he
played the whole thing laying in a lounge chair like
a helpless turtle on his back, never daring to stand up,
and it's one of the most famous scenes in cinematic history.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
I've always taken care of you, Breda taken care of me.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
You're my kid, brother, you take care of me. Do
you ever think about that? Do you ever once think
about that? Save Fredo?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Off to do this?
Speaker 6 (11:25):
Sen Fredo, Off to do that? Sen Fredo to pick
somebody up at the airport. I mean your older brother, Mike,
and I was stepped over. Ain't the way I wanted it.
I can handle things. I'm smart. Like everybody says like dumb,
(11:45):
I'm smart and I want to spect.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Three films into his movie career, and John was showing
just how deep his talent went. Still in reviews in
award shows, he wasn't noticed like Fredo. He was passed over,
but it was impossible to ignore him. In his next film,
many believe it may be his crowning achievement in movies.
And it almost didn't happen because ironically, he was wrong
(12:11):
for the part. Dawn Day Afternoon was based on a
real incident, a Brooklyn bank robbery that turned.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Into a hostage situation.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
The film was developed as a vehicle for al Pacino,
who by then was one of the hottest stars in movies.
Al had a slight resemblance to the actual robber, but
in real life, the enforcer, the gunman who assisted the robbery,
was an eighteen year old kid named Sal. Sidney Lmett,
the brilliant director, was determined to make the film as
(12:42):
realistic as possible, building a replica of the bank in
an abandoned store, lighting the interior with fluorescent bulbs, and
even asking the actors playing the bank personnel to bring
in their own wardrobes from home. To find just the
right actor for Sal, he auditioned every eighteen year old
actor he could find. Then al Pacino made a suggestion
(13:05):
read John Cazell for the part. Well, Sidney was hesitant,
feeling the same actor who had convinced the world he
was Fredo Corleone who was completely wrong, and he was
too old thirty nine at the time of filming. Still
Sidney had a great relationship with Al, having just directed
him two years prior in serproco So. John read three
(13:25):
lines for the skeptical director and Sidney relented.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
He broke my heart. The director later confessed.
Speaker 5 (13:33):
I remember we were casting and Sidney Laman wanted a
a nineteen year old boy. He thought that would be
very important, and he was sort of right.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
I'd been reading a lot of people for it, and
Al kept asking me to read John.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
So of course Sidney think, with John, that's not what
I'm thinking. John Gizell no, the guy who did Fredo.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
No.
Speaker 7 (13:56):
Finally, because I've got such respect for Al, John came in.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Is stunned. He could not have looked wronger.
Speaker 7 (14:03):
And then he read and it was just the most
extraordinary connection, heartbreaking a scene and what are we talking about?
Talking about a totally anti social and properly terrible man
and Cazal broke your heart.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Despite diverging wildly from his historic counterpart, John created a
character unlike any other. Sal was completely closed, tight against
the rest of the world, a total enigma. Sal is
unpredictable in the truest sense of the word. Tightly wound,
with a history of military service and prison in isolation.
(14:43):
No one, not even al Paccinos Sonny, can know what
he's thinking or when he may come unwound. He's the
ticking time bomb that gives the film its relentless suspense,
and strangely enough, he also gives the film its heart.
One of John's greatest gifts was his ability to draw compassion,
(15:04):
even love from the audience. For the many portrayed. He
didn't play good guys. He played a pimp, a thief,
and perhaps a killer, a braggart who waves a gun
in the face of his friends and at least once
punched a woman. The most normal of his characters was
a professional voyeur. Yet somehow we have affection for each
(15:24):
of these men. That's because John never judged the characters
he portrayed. He understood them. Such understanding can only come
through exploring their human motivations by asking perpetual questions. According
to Meryl Streep, John was known as twenty Questions in
the industry because he never stopped asking them. And nowhere
(15:45):
was his gift for explorations so completely demonstrated that in
sal there was behind those sunken eyes a deep well
of sadness, sorrow even and our inexplicable urge is to
know what had wounded him so savagely. We want to
get to know the guy with the gun better. Ironically,
(16:05):
we never do. There's no big moment for sal when
he reveals his pain. Instead, as the situation grows more
and more desperate, he retreats further and further into himself,
growing ever more still, ever more quiet, and ever more dangerous.
Dog Day Afternoon, like the previous films in which John appeared,
(16:27):
was nominated for both the Golden Globe and the Oscar
for Best Picture, And like the three previous times, there
was no Oscar nomination for John, but the Golden Globes
gave him his only nomination for a movie where when
they put him up as Best Supporting Actor, Richard Benjamin
took home the.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Award that year.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
If the lack of award recognition bothered John, he didn't
complain much about it. He was far more interested in
art than an awards. While making his final film, he
was asked about it and responded by saying, if you
have any inclines, a nation toward paranoia, that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
We'll bring it out in you.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You say, what do I have to do to get
recognition of that sort, But then you put it back
in perspective and ask yourself how much that or any
award really matters in one respect. I'm sorry awards can
generate other work. No actor knew as much about being
a supporting actor. That was never truer than in Dog
(17:25):
Day Afternoon, in which his sal urged al Pacino to
one of his greatest portrayals.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I've done a lot of work with John, so I know.
I did a lot of theater with John, and he
became whoever it was he was playing. And John would
be afraid of you believe that's who he was, of course,
and I watched him do it every role I did
dog Day with him. I did several plays with him,
(17:56):
and it was amazing to watch. It was a lesson
in itself. I think I learned more about acting from
John than anybody.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
And that was al Pacino's voice, you which is listening
to and you're hearing the story of John Kazell as
told by Jean jo Powers. His book A Small Perfection,
John Kazell and the Art of Acting is available at
Amazon and all the usual suspects. John never judged the
men he played. He understood them, and it's so true
(18:28):
and at its best, that's what acting is. It's an
exercise in superhuman empathy. When we come back more of
this remarkable life story, and if you get a chance
with your family, watch Godfather one, then watch Godfather two.
I mean at the age appropriate time because it is Shakespearean.
The acting is remarkable. The discussion points for a family,
(18:50):
they don't get better. What is the nature of man?
What is good? What is evil? This is not a
movie that glamorizes evil. There are consequences. The story of
John Cazell, his work and his profession. Here on our
American stories. And we returned to our American stories, Let's
(19:41):
return to John Joe Power as author of a small perfection,
John Cazelle and the Art of Acting. Powers picks up
his story with John and his dog Day Afternoon co
star Al Pacino.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
One of the great joys of the film is to
see these two actors, who had so much trust than
each other, engage in a brilliant duet. Al said all
he wanted to do was to act with John for
the rest of his life. In fact, he admitted that
John was not only his dear friend and acting partner,
but He was one of his acting idols, so much
(20:16):
so that when John came to sel on Broadway, Pacino
went overboard and trying to impress him.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I was doing a play called The Basic Training of
Pablo Humble on Broadway and it was a really great
role and I had done things with it and I
had done the Tony Ward and I was really but
John was coming to see it. And I don't like
to know when anyone's in the house, but I knew
(20:46):
John was in the house right And every single thing
I did, every scene, I was trying to impress John,
and I knew I'm doing this, I'm saying this, I'm
not doing this, so I'm trying to impress John. You
and uh, it was over and I was really unhappy
(21:06):
because I knew I hadn't done.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And John came back.
Speaker 8 (21:11):
He said, very impressive, very impressive. Yes, yeah, I said,
you know what I said. He was so graceful though,
he was so gracious about it all. But I said,
you know, I knew you were there, and I was
trying to I've been doing everything twice as much as
I had to do it.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, he says, it was good. I was good. It
was good, so you don't know.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
You don't realize that you know you've been doing it.
But I knew I had, so I was very you know,
he was like one of my idols, so that when
he was coming to see me, it was And that's
the worst thing you could do is try to impress
your your friends who you love.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Ironically, dog Day Afternoon, their greatest of all on screen pairings,
would be their last. The next year, John and Al
would appear together on stage for a final time, ten
years after they shared their acting breakthroughs. That same year,
nineteen seventy six, John shared the stage with another actor
(22:17):
whose work would become legendary. While in rehearsals, he confided
to Al that he had met the greatest actress in
the history of the world. Her name was Meryl Streep,
and she was at the start of a career in
quickly gaining a reputation that supported John's assessment. During the
production of Measure for Measure, John and Merrill fell in
(22:38):
love and moved in together. Their lives on stage and
off were colored by a devotion for one another that
intrigued both audiences and friends. At forty one, John was
a bona fide actor with a rapidly growing reputation on
stage and on screen. He was beloved by his friends
and in love with Meryl Streep, and he was on
(23:00):
his way to Broadway. But irony can be cruel. John
played the first preview in the title role of the
Broadway production of Agamemnon. Then he began to cough up blood.
He never returned to the show. An obsessive smoker, John
was diagnosed with advanced stage lung cancer. One of his
(23:21):
first concerns was will they let me work? As it
turned out they would one last time. Robert De Niro
and Michael Chimino were preparing The Deer Hunter, an epic
film about a group of friends who work in the
steel mills of Pennsylvania and how their lives were changed
by their service in the Vietnam War. For the role
(23:43):
of Stan, a braggart who is always trying to be
a bigger man than he's capable of being. Both wanted
John Cazal. As talks about his participation went on. There
was good news and bad news. The good news was
that if John was in the film, Meryl Streep agreed
to play the rather uninteresting role of Linda, a girlfriend
(24:03):
to one of the main characters. In order to stay
close to John during the shooting, Chimino offered a letter
develop the character and add more depth to it. The
bad news was that John was dying. The cancer had
metastasized to his bones. Despite trying different protocols, the prognosis
remained grim. The studio backing the film opposed his casting,
(24:26):
worried that he would die before his scenes were finished.
It was only the united front of Cimino, de Niro
and Streep, insisting that he stay in the film or
they'd resign, that convinced the studio to relent. The shooting
schedule was drawn off, putting all of John's scenes. It's
the first to be filmed in the hot June of
nineteen seventy seven. They begin shooting the cold autumnal scenes
(24:49):
that would open the movie. For the fifth and final time,
John Cazal would show actors everywhere how it's done. When
it's done to perfection, there is no hint to his
personal struggles. His Stanley once again as a fully drawn
human being, alive and compelling and the most fascinating character
(25:09):
on the screen. Once his and Merril's scenes were wrapped,
they retreated to their loft in New York City, where
John tried to remain optimistic in the face of his deterioration.
Early in nineteen seventy eight, it was clear that he
wouldn't beat the cancer as he had predicted. About three
am on the morning of March thirteenth, John died. He
(25:33):
would not live to see his final film be nominated
for the Golden Globe and win the Oscar for Best Picture,
nor would he see the woman he once called the
greatest actress in the history of the world received her
first Oscar nomination. I've come to regard John rather like
the Vincent van Goe of acting. Vincent worked obsessively at
(25:55):
his art during his short lifetime, largely without recognition. While
John routinely drew glowing reviews for his stage work, film
critics largely ignored him, and as mentioned, he was passed
over for rewards. I've long thought that was because no
one knew he was acting. Far from the isolated, damaged
(26:16):
losers he portrayed, John was a gregarious, curious, funny man
who had a type of charisma that drew others to him.
But he, like Vincent, had a singular vision that created
art that confounded the viewer. John's ability to access the
deepest pain of his characters gave them an uncomfortable vulnerability
(26:38):
that made us wonder if we should be watching. His
art disturbed us, but in a way that compelled us
to keep looking. And Like Vincent, John's notoriety has grown
throughout the decades. Six years after he died, the McGinn
Khazalic Theater was dedicated in New York to him and
his close friend, the actor Walter McGinn, who had died
(26:59):
the year before. For John, in two thousand and nine,
the filmmaker Richard Sheppard directed to documentary appropriately short called
I Knew It Was You, Rediscovering John kazal The publicity
from the film generated scores of appreciative essays. Then, in
twenty fifteen, a Czech Film festival celebrated John's legacy at
(27:22):
their fiftieth anniversary by running that documentary along with The
Godfather Part two and Dog Day Afternoon. That was the
same year I published my book A Small Perfection, John
Kazl in the Art of Acting. It coincided with the
eightieth anniversary of John's birth. I had by then watched
(27:43):
the five films in which John had acted over and
over for years and had realized that, aside from being
five of the best portrayals in screen history, there were
lessons in John's work every actor should learn. It's intentionally
not a biolography, although it has some biographical notes, But
(28:03):
I found myself reluctant to delve too deeply into his
personal life. John, like Vincent before him, was an artist.
If you really want to know an artist, you look
at his work. That's where you'll find the truest biography.
John and Vincent both had their legacies deepened by premature death.
(28:24):
They were halted at perfection and left us without explanation
of their art nor a need for it. John Kazu
left us at the height of his promise, with all
of the anticipation of his next appearance still thick in
the air. All of us who love acting and love
his acting will try forever to describe that deep, intangible
(28:47):
essence of John Kazu. If you want to know about him,
watch us five films. The devotion, generosity, humanity, and responsibility
he displayed as an actor is all we really need
to see in order to know the man he was.
The rest is just a mystery, but mystery is what
(29:07):
keeps us asking questions, and asking questions is what keeps
actors alive.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And a terrific job on the production. The editing by
our own Greg Hengler, and a special thanks to John
Joe Powers, author of A Small Perfection, John cazal and
The Art of Acting. And I was a young actor
in the early nineteen eighties for a very short time,
and I got to see what John did up close
and personal. I saw him perform on the stage. I
(29:36):
saw Paccino perform on the stage with him. And I
got to see Meryl Streep and measure for measure. These
were things you saw as a young actor, and you
knew these were God given talents. And none more respected
and revered than John. The Vincent Van Goh of acting.
Both men's body of work shortened by death, the story
(29:58):
of an Actor's actor. All five of his films nominated
for Best Picture Oscars. John Cazale his story here on
Our American Stories
Host
Lee Habeeb
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