Allen Grubman: Legendary Music Deal Maker & Rock Hall Co-Founder

Paul and Skip have an audience with the Big Macher of the music world. Grubman shares negotiation tips that helped him assemble deals that transformed the industry and insights about his celebrity clients, including Bruce Springsteen, Mariah Carey, Madonna, Jennifer Lopez, U2, Elton John and so many more. He also details his incredibly journey that took him from failing law student to one of the founders of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy
Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this
is Paul Anka.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And my name is Skip Bronson. We've been friends for
decades and we've decided to let you in on our
late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
And welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet
some real good friends of ours.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Your leaders in entertainment and.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Sports, innovators in business and technology, and even a sitting
president or two.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Join us as we ask the questions they've not been
asked before, tell it like it is, and even sing
a song or two.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
One of the most important things about negotiating, which people
don't realize, you have to have the bulls to act.
Most people really don't have the bulls to ask, and
that's the secret. If you have emotional intelligence, then you
have the bulls to put a big number on the table.
That's the beginning of successful negotiation.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
You know, hey, what are you doing now that the
Olympics were over keeping yourself entertained? Listen, I'm just getting
over the convention in Chicago. Yeah, that was my what
is going on in our country? That was a love in,
for sure, there was a total love in. I'm just
confused about everything here. Yeah, so I'm concerned for our country. Frankly,

(01:48):
I'm not going to go further with it, but I
don't know what to believe anymore, do you. What I
believe is that this election is going to be very,
very close, So it's going to come down to just
states that really are going to be in play. Anybody
who tells you who's going to win, you know, is
a fool because there's no certitude. This not you know,

(02:11):
you know, when when Donald was shot at that rally,
everybody said, that's it. You know, we don't even get elections.
Game over and you've gotten forgotten, Yeah, forgotten. And then
you know, Biden got pushed to pushed aside, and you know,
a person who at the time was unpopular came in
and became extremely popular. Also, my only point being, you

(02:32):
can't predict any of these things. It's just that all
media driven to all media driven, and it's it's not static,
you know, it's just dynamic. Everything is changing every day.
You know, one one slip, you know, set somebody back.
But truthfully, the Olympics were much more compelling. Oh I
loved it. My hat's off to It was just amazing

(02:55):
to watch. I mean every day was thrilling to see
the commitment of those young men and women and how
they had full control of their bodies most of the time.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
It was.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
It was something to see. And of course when they
ended with my Way, I couldn't believe it. But that's
what's that. That was phenomenal. That's where I was going
with this. That that was my setup where I was
at it, because that was just incredible to have. The
last performance at the Olympics was you know your song,
which is really pretty thrilling, and she she knocked it

(03:27):
out of the park and for me, not important. It
was thrilling, skipped, but the content of everything that went
on is far more important to me than the song.
You know, I must tell you. I know that's true.
So I got you in the Hamptons, right, Yeah, I'm
in the Hamptons and well you're with our guests that

(03:48):
I'm so excited about this. Let's say it together. Alan
Groupman is going to be on now for all of
our thousands of listeners. This is a superstar in terms
of the legal world. And this guy has every important act.
And I'm known him well. He was a waiter back

(04:08):
at the Concord when I was singing up there. But
he's from Springsteen to Lebron, James and Elton, John Gaga, Madonna,
Martha Stewart, Mariah Carry, Jennifer Low, you two. I mean,
the list goes on. He is the guy and I
skip and I are very fortunate to be in his company.
When he's sitting in a chair and his collar is open,

(04:30):
and the food is coming, and it keeps coming, and
it keeps coming and it keeps coming. We love this guy.
Everybody's gonna join well, he and Debb here in the Hamptains,
He and Debbie. That's the place to be. The beautiful
thing for being being a house guest like I am.
You don't have to go anywhere. You just stay there
and everybody comes to you. So yeah, no, it's a

(04:52):
lot of fun. They have wonderful dinner parties. Debbie's the
ultimate hostess, so we have a great time. And Alan,
you know, he has just such great stories. I mean,
his his his history and his his relationships. I mean,
he had grown evolved is really the word I would
use where you know, he started as a music lawyer

(05:14):
and wound up getting into a situation where he's selling
the libraries of you know, artists, and now he's had
major you know fortune, five hundred CEOs who come to him,
seek him out and negotiate their deals, you know, which
he never could have imagined. He'll talk about the fact
that he graduated dead last in his you know, class

(05:36):
in law school. From that to this, and you and I,
Paul share one thing in common. That's we love the
self made guys, not the inheritors, you know. I mean,
there's nothing wrong with an eritor if he can get
away with it. But the guests that we've had on
who are purely self made just much better stories, you know,

(05:59):
much more compelling. And you know Allan is, you know,
fits right into that category. Here's a guy with Alan.
He's inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
a lawyer, I mean, not in any way demeaning it,
but to show you his importance. And now he's been
such a pioneer and eclectic way with so many different
people got inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

(06:21):
So that's going to be fun. Started with a folding
chair and a folding you know, bridge shale table and
telephoning from there. But you know he can talk. He
gets paid for talking. He's good at it. We didn't
even talk about this. I saw your new tour schedule
was just released. Where you're going in? Uh? I think October? Right? Yeah? First,

(06:42):
I'm lord of the Toronto Film Festival that accepted my documentary.
So on, oh they did? You didn't tell me September
September tw How do you not tell me about it? Well,
I'm telling you now. I can't tell you everything. I'm
too humble. So the September tenth were featured premiered at
the Big Theater for my documentary. Uh yeah, And then

(07:04):
I start my tour October into November. They we're putting
January together, and then I tour Florida in February and March,
and then we're working on the Broadway show right now
and blah blah blah blah blah, and just keeping healthy.
That's it. But my boy, I must tell you something
forgetting all of that. I've been having such a time

(07:25):
with you and all of these guests that we get,
and the ease and the joy that I get out
of it. You and I. I mean, if you told me
what three years ago, when you and I sit around
a wrap, then we're gonna have a podcast and and
or I told you were crazy. But we're having such

(07:45):
fun with this and everybody listening, man, I got to
thank them because you know, it's it's kind of the
analogy of you know, you can sit home and write
songs and then they come out. I don't know who listens.
I don't know who's buying it. There's a black hole
between me and the life of what the song is.
It's the same with this, those people out there that listen,
and I know you and I get some you know,

(08:07):
a lot of feedback on it. And I got to
thank them, I really do, for allowing you and I
to enjoy this. But I have to tell you to
that point, so you know, I'm very friendly with Bruce Meyer.
And Bruce is a big car collector, famous car collector,
and he was up at Pebble Beach for the Big
Car Show and he was driving back and he has

(08:27):
his private car collection. I still have to take you
over and show it to you. It's like nothing you've
ever seen. Beverly Hill Yep, he's got in the building
behind the chief store Yep, it's oh, you've been in it.
I didn't even know. He's always changing the cars, but
it's it's just a great trip. So he was going
to show my banker the cars. So he came back

(08:48):
and he said, boy, I got this long drive. I said,
I got a great idea. You should listen to her podcast.
He said, oh yeah, that's right, I forgot. So he
listened to Steve Winn parts one and two. He got
to the I was meeting him. This is true story.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Now.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
I was meeting him at four o'clock in front of
the building so that we could take my bankers in
to see the collection. And he's holding his phone and
he's playing the last five minutes of the two part
Steve went. He said, this is the most compelling guy.
This story and your relationship with him, haul's relationship with him.

(09:29):
He said, I'm going to listen to it again. That's
how good this is. I'm fascinated by the guy. No
sooner does he say that. My phone lights up, Steve went.
So Steve calls me and I said, Steve, I'm here
with a friend. You don't know his name, is Bruce Meyer.
He just listened to your podcast that you did with
Paul and me and thought it was great. I said,

(09:50):
he'd looked to meet you. So I handed the phone
and of course for twenty minutes, you know, I couldn't
get my phone away from him because Steve was regaling
him with additional stories, you know, on top of it.
It was great. But it's just to your point. You know,
the people that have been listening to these you know shows,
they just you know, they're resonating. So we're blessed. I

(10:10):
had one gal come up in an Italian restaurant I
go to here young. I mean, she's like thirty, and
I don't know where she comes over. You're probably there's
a guy I know off your podcast. You know, you
and your friend and listen. You always love to hear
it because it's something you're not expecting to hear because
you don't know. And it's the same thing as I said,

(10:31):
I have no idea who's listening to my music, how
they embrace it. There's that black hole. The only time
I know skipping when I go on a stage and
I start singing and I hear the enthusiasm if they
plause or whatever. So many time, I know exactly what
the life has been of us on right until a
check comes in, you know. Well, So anyway, I'm gonna
let you go to uh dinner. Yeah, and I hope

(10:54):
the weather stays decent for you. Yeah, it's supposed to
be good. The rest of that, I'll see you and
you get back to the wonderful state of California. Got
it all right? I love you, man, Give my love
to Mama. Sure, I love you too. Same bye.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Hey, folks, we've got the man on here with us.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Now.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Skip knows him better than I do, but I know
him and I'm going to get to know him real
well because we kind of think alike. He's one of
the smartest guys around. Alan Grubman.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
It's called right. When I was living in Brooklyn, it
was Grubman.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Now that I'm living in Manhattan and I'm rich, it's
called groupment.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Grubman shows you, I haven't talked to you in a while.
Everybody said, it's Grubman that got me breakwatch. So we
got Groubman here, folks. Skip give them the mo o
of this lovable little creature that we love so much.

Speaker 6 (11:53):
So I thought to Alan minimally six and usually seven
days a week. He's one of my very best friends
of all time. Love him to death. And he's obviously
enormously successful entertainment attorney. And what people don't know about
him is people just identify him early on with music,
and yet some of the top CEOs at the best

(12:15):
companies you know, use him and negotiate on their behalf.
So somebody said to me one day, why is Alan
so successful? And I said, because he knows what to
ask for and he isn't ready to ask. You need
both of those qualities and he's got him. But more importantly,
he's a very sweet, wonderful human. I just loved him

(12:35):
so much. But we're just having attle debate. Before you
got on, Allen, I knew that you were obviously on
the horn and Harder Children's Hour, and I would like
you to talk about that. But were you ever a
page at the Ed Sulivan Show. I know Sandy Gallen was,
but were you at I wise?

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Were you? But I want your list is to know
how I met your partner.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
You were working at the concord with a tray over
your head.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Or would you let me let me talk?

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Did you believe in miracles. It's got stuck.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
I'm at the concord, taking dishes off the table and
trying to hide his steak so I'd have something to eat.
And he's in the main room of the of the nightclub,
and he was like the same age as me, and
I said, what am I doing wrong? I couldn't believe it.
He was on stage and I was looking to pick

(13:27):
up plates. And but seriously, that was the first time
I ever stopped wall anchor. You were what eighteen?

Speaker 4 (13:34):
Well?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
How old?

Speaker 4 (13:35):
Well?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
How old? How old were you?

Speaker 3 (13:37):
I was a bus boy. I was in my second
year of copp I was like eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
So I was eighteen nineteen in there.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
And you were making in those days ten grand a night,
and I was waiting for five dollars hips And.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
You should we tell them what you're making now what
I'm making.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
You're making I'm stay.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
I mean, you'll breathe on a client. It's fifteen twenty
thirty fifty percent. You're led genderry. People are limping down
Beverly Hills. He got ten million, fifteen million. You're bitching
about me what I earned out? I must have earned
two thousand dollars for that gig.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Is that true?

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's true?

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Well, you remember you're going back fifty.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Years nineteen fifty seven, fifteen, No, no, no, no, wait
a second.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
I was born in forty two, so in fifty eight,
forty two, fifty No, I think it was probably fifty nine.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Maybe, Okay, I was born in forty one, and I
was up there at fifty eight and fifty nine and
sixty at the Concord. Do you remember alan The audience
never clapped, folks, they banged. Well, let's tell them what
they're banging with. They had these little sticks, little things
called knockers.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Right, knockers that not.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
And they'd all if they liked you, they'd start that.
You'd hear like two thousand knocking. Now if they didn't
like you, nobody knocked, and the fucking doors opened in
the back and two thousand Jews left in twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
By the way, you know, you know who that happened to.
Ray Charles once performed at the Concord and this was
an all Jewish, proud you know, immigrants whatever, and it
just didn't get him. And within ten of fifteen minutes,
this was Ray Charles, and his height just about everybody

(15:19):
got up. The doors open and they didn't leave. They
land right out the door. And I'll never forget that.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Alan. Do you remember when they brought as there were
over for Tony Fields. Now everybody's talking about this guy.
Charles Asbury is like the Frank Sinatra France. And I
was living in France and I knew him well, sweet guy.
But they wanted to break him in the United States.
So somebody had the great idea, we'll put him with
Tody up at the concord. They'll love him and you'll
come and do something. So, ladies and gentlemen, Charles as

(15:51):
there were. So now as the door comes on, hell
her let up? Haven't ahead of it? One woman gets
up in the front say what time is? It could
be at the pull tomorrow. That was the end of Charles. Oh,
it was brutal. So I would take us from the
tray and the page. I want our listeners here. How'd

(16:13):
you roll into becoming a lawyer? And why?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Well, it started off with as you can see with
my looks, they were very, very unique. I got a
lot of attention by looking at my face. They got
less attention when they looked at my stomach. Seriously, how
did I get started? And I told the story many times,
one more time, one more time. When I was nine

(16:39):
ten years old, my mother used to hear me thing
to myself in my bedroom. So the next thingtion my
mother was like a stage bother. She sent a letter
to this television show for children that was on NBCD
every Sunday morning at ten thirty was full the horned
Hard Children's Hour, obviously Suspence. That was sponsored by One Auto,

(17:04):
which was a very popular cafeteria chain in those days.
So for two years I was on that show. I
lived in Brooklyn, very very middle class, and the only
time you ever saw a limousine was right behind a
hearse with the body inside going to the cemetery. Every Saturday,

(17:25):
they would pick me up for rehearsals, and they would
pick me up in a limo. So I'm sitting there
in a limo driving into New York. I can't believe
there wasn't a hearse in front of me. They were
actually driving in beat to Manhattan in a limousine. And
then what ended up happening is whenever there was a break,

(17:47):
they would take the kids, medbe one of them to
the best restaurants in New York. When I was growing up,
the only restaurants I ever ated was Coasted Delhi and
a Chinese restaurant on Sunday. So it burned my brain
the memory of the entertainment business. And then when I
ended up going to law school, I said, you know what,

(18:11):
I think, representing people need entertainment business is a lot
better than doing house closings in Brooklyn. So I graduated
law school and I got a job with this man
who represented the Beatles, but he had just been fired
from them, but he hired and he only was a

(18:31):
music lawyer. And I worked for him for four years
name Walter Hope for you would know, sure an you Walter,
Oh you did okay, but nobody else no. So I
worked to him for four years and then I went
out on my own. And I know, I just I
took to being an entertainment lawyer. Whatever it was. I

(18:52):
could have never succeeded if I was a lawyer in
corporate world or a state. But what motivated me with
those memories when I was kid working on this show,
I was a singer. So that's how I got my start.
And in nineteen seventy five I started my own practice,
and I was off to the races. I was very

(19:12):
very fortunate, lucky. I had a few breaks come my way,
and I took advantage of them every smart person should do.
And I built now with other lawyers that worked for me,
the largest media entertainment law firm in the United States.

Speaker 6 (19:29):
And by the way, Allan, because of your great proficiency
as a student, you graduated. Let's say closer to the
bottom to the top, but tell the story about what happened.
One day you got a phone call from your alma
mater and they said they wanted to come over and
see you. And the guy had plans rolled up under
his arm as he walked you off.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
So I get a call from the dean. This is
like twenty years ago. So I reverted immediately to being
a student. I said, oh, what do I do? Why
is that's the dean calling me? So he said, Alan,
I would like to see you. I said, okay. So
the next week he walks into my office with these

(20:11):
big tubes under his arm and he sits down and
he says to me, you know, we followed your career
and you've done very very well, but you never did
anything for the school. And I put my head down
like I was ten years old. Said yeah, you're right,
I did. So he takes these tubes out and he says, yeah,
have a conference shvie. I said yeah. He takes them out.

(20:33):
I said, what is this? He says, this is the
new building. I said, okay. I immediately said I'm going
to do something. So now it becomes funny and very moving.
He chose me the plans and I see this one
room which is a double height ceiling, and I said,
what is that. Oh, he said, that's the new library.

(20:54):
I said, that's the new library. Really? He said yes.
I said, so, let's talk about naming the library after me.
So we thirty seconds we worked out the amount whatever.
So then I say to him, well, I'm not going

(21:16):
to exactly name it after me. I'm gonna name it
after this professor. He's why because it wasn't for him,
I would have flunked out and that would have been
the end of my career. And it was very moving,
and you know, which is the truth. He said, why
did you pick the library? I said, you really want

(21:37):
to know? He said yeah, because it's the only room
in the building I never walked into. He says, are
you serious, I said, I'm dead serious. He says, you
never want I said, I want you to look up
my grades, whatever they call it. I literally graduated almost well,

(21:58):
I shouldn't say almost. I graduated at the bottom of
my class. But the reason that happened is because the
first year of law school I worked at the William
Morris Agency late in the day as in the mail room.
And then the next two years I was a page
at CBS, so I was putting in a lot of hours,
and I wasn't exactly the greatest suit. So the bottom

(22:21):
line is the library was built. It's named after this professor,
donated by debian I. And this guy lived to one
hundred and two years old, and he was unbelievably important
in the law school. And what he died, his children
said to me it was the most important honor he

(22:44):
ever got his dire life. It was a nice story.
But I wasn't tell him what the sign looked like,
going on with the name with his name on it,
Professor Joseph Krayer in big letters, and right underneath it
inequally big letters donate by Allan and DeBie Group. So
it turned out to be a good thing, and it

(23:08):
was like one of the nicer things I've done. I
haven't done many nice things, but this was one of them.
So that's basically, you know what happened, and you know,
I recognize the fact I've been like I am sure, Paul,
and you skip think about how wonderful it is to
be successful in life, and it's you know, especially as

(23:30):
we get older, you look back and you see, you
know what you've done and what you haven't done. I
was talking to a friend of mine the other day
and I said, you know something, well, we didn't realize
the journey is much more interesting than the destination, which
means that when you're building your career, you're not. All

(23:51):
you're focusing on is working art. But the real joy
is that part of the experience now when you're at
the destination, just praying that somebody doesn't kick you off
the mout. So you know, I've been fortunate. You guys
have been fortunate, and we have good friends, We enjoy
each other's company, and things are good. Now we only

(24:15):
have one thing left to do. They helped me.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's all about the health. You know, you're right, you
and I have seen the in that journey. The music
business from its infancy stage. You know, we're the same age,
and we know the change in the music industry, and
I try to help a lot of young people. I've
been involved with them in the industry. Today, I'm gonna
give you an off the wall question. Who's the most
important guy in our business today? Is it Rapino or

(24:41):
is it Lucian Grange?

Speaker 3 (24:43):
You knowing, I'm fortunate to represent both of them. But
I will tell you you can't pick and choose, and
I'll tell you why. Let's take Lucian Lucia now manages
a company. In the nineties and eighties, there were two
huge record companies, Sony Records was CBS Records and Warner

(25:07):
Brothers Records. If you put those two companies together and
factory inflation, they aren't nearly as huge or as big
as UMG, which is now run by the CEO Lucian Granger.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Lucien gut market share when he brought in. He bought
Universal Emi, right correct, And that's probably all. That's all
about history and getting catalog, but it's not about the future.
It's all catalog, right.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Well, if you take a look at his current acts,
starting with Taylor Swift, they are very, very dominant positions.
So that's Lucia. Now you're Michael Rapino. Today, live entertainment
is an enormous part of the music business and to
most artists it's where they make all their money. And

(25:58):
Michael Rappino who started in thunder where in Canada that
they've done.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Near Toronto, Thunder Bay or Thunder Bay Toronto, somewhere in the.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Middle of nowhere, and now he runs this enormous company.
The fact that's so enormous that the government is coming
after Live Nations saying that you have you're a monopolist
something like that. So you can't say which one is
more successful. They're both giants in their areas. And I

(26:31):
would say that if you ask most people, they would
say both of those guys are at the top of
their game. I don't think anybody could pick one with
the other.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
And keeping with you talking about Lucien and Universal, you
know a lot of young people today, unlike yesterday, they
don't invest in these young talent. The labels today you
shouldn't even be signing with a major label because it's
not interesting to build, you know. They just don't put
an money into these young artists. It seems to be

(27:01):
somewhat of a dilemma, right.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Well, you know, in the old days, records were broken
by record promotion guys in the radio. Now a lot
of these these artists, they're broken on YouTube and Spotify.
It's a different way of marketing records. But at the
end of the day, as you see, the biggest acts

(27:24):
in the world are still signed to major record companies.
It's a fallacy to think that you don't need to
be with a record company, whether it's the marketing, promotions,
whatever you want to call it. You still don't see
any super superstars that aren't distributed by major Later. Now,
the financial arrangements that they make now am very different

(27:46):
than they went twenty thirty years ago when where artists
just got a royalty and now and advanced. Now these
deals are much more sophisticated in favor of the artists.
So that's big change, but there's still they still signed
to it. Like Taylor Swift as an arrangement with with
with UMG where the vast majority of the money goes

(28:10):
to her, and you know in the old days it
was very different, but she still wants to be with
a major for all the things a major can do.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
And Spotify has changed a lot of things too.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Well. Spotify revolutionized the business.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Daniel Leck where he came along and saved their lunch.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Well, I'll give you examples. Let's take Universal before Spotify.
The year before Spotify, if you looked at the value
of Universal, it might have been five billion dollars. When
streaming came along, it changed everything. Record companies started printing money,
et cetera. And now the market cap of Universal, I

(28:52):
think is in the forties, Warner Brothers which a guide
board it for three billion dollars. His name is Len
bolevat three billion dollars he bought it for He put
up a billion dollars and finance too. And today the
companies were twenty billion and he owns I set.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Up and Spotify's growth and it outpaces all the competitors.
That's astronly correct.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, it's it's a totally different world. The music business
is much more lucrative than it used to be. But
in the old days it was much more entertaining for
the people who worked in it. We get it was fun.
Now it's more business than file. So in those days,

(29:39):
talk for a minute about there were people most and
amateurg and our friend David Geffen. They were all had
huge influence in that industry, so very different than the
way things operate now. Right in correct, There there were
great personalities the record companies and.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
You know what, Skip, you couldn't name the other guys
running companies back then. You could today. I defy anyone
to tell me who's running these other companies.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
We're one hundred percent right. That's why I said the
fun is with Logic sent is gone, but the revenue
has definitely been bigger.

Speaker 6 (30:15):
But with the guys you know that I mentioned earlier,
think about how they feel about this. On one last week,
we had a good friend of Paul's on Richard Marx,
the singer Richard mars He's got one song on Spotify
that has five hundred million down loads. One song, and
that's only on one platform. That's not Apple Music, that's

(30:38):
not Amazon, that's just Spotify. Five hundred million downloads.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
You know some thing I represented him in the old days?
Oh did you that.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
I worked with him and somewhat found him when he
came from Chicago. Good guy and very talented and he
and he was he had great success for a period
of time. And yeah, I don't know what he's doing
these days. He's very active, he's doing very very well.
He's dotting a lot of great hits. He's touring no
and he's a solid guy that in my regard, I
will we're having dinner next week.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Alan will want to know what you're having for dinner.
By the way, it was just referencing.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
David Geffen and I were having lunch at Langer's Delicatestsen
in downtown in La one day, and we were talking
about Alan, of course, our favorite topic, and we said,
you know, if we called Allen and said, Alan, you're
not going to believe this. While we're having lunch, an
airplane crashed into the delicate tests and unbelievable. Alan would say,

(31:36):
what did you have for lunch?

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Now I know I've said straw because it's better than one.

Speaker 6 (31:45):
What airplane?

Speaker 3 (31:47):
What airplane? What did you have for lunch?

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Oh? My dad, he's a gem.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
So Paul, let me ask you a question, Yeah, go ahead.
How did you deal with the enormous success you had
when you were in nature? Because my experience has been
there are so few artists that have sustained careers, but
the few that have had sustained careers had their feet

(32:23):
on the ground and will level headed the rest of them,
no matter how successful they are. You know, like my
career is like watching a movie. I see him come
and I see him go. Well, you were one of
those few artists that were a lifetime career. Tell me
about it.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
So I leave Canada a hundred bucks in my pocket.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
How old were you?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Fifteen? And I leave a great family behind who raised
me well. And we were a very tight family. But
they knew what I wanted and it was all about
the music. And I talk them in to let me
go to New York to go see record companies. I
stay at the forty second forty, some place called the
President Hotel, and I go up to see Sam Clark,

(33:09):
Irwin garr, Don Costa. I sing for them. They like it.
They fly my parents down and the dream starts. And
within that first year with the hits, all I'm saying
to myself, this is unbelievable. Now. You know, the music
business as we knew at Alan was in its infancy stage.
You know, it was all R and B action, and

(33:30):
it was all of that, just a few record companies, etc.
So all I said to myself, firstly, I got to
find out and make sure they don't become an asshole,
because everybody's catering to you every hour, you know. And
I said, I got to surround myself with some good people.
So in the midst of it, I meet Izzy an
Irvingfeld who had a drug store down in Washington. And

(33:50):
Izzy and IRV, amongst all the product they were selling,
were racking records and they'd see what was on the
top ten anyway. They would look at the ten that
was selling. They'd call each of us. Diana was on
the top ten, and they would book us to go
out on these tours. And they pay us about two
hundred bucks a week. So I go out on my
first tour and I'm loving it. I'm living it. And

(34:13):
I realized that if I'm going to go any further,
I got to put some smart people around me. Otherwise,
my dad wanted me back home to school. And I
said to IRV, I said, look, he got me for
two hundred bucks a week. I'm worth more. But anybody
can do that's got to be my partner. So I
talk him and do it, and I move in with
him and is He and I live with them in Washington,
and they kind of raise me Washington, DC, Washington, DC,

(34:36):
on Connecticut Avenue. So with IRV in my life, good parents,
I'm listening, you know, I'm listening and I'm learning, and
I'm trying to keep myself as clean as possible. You're
a young kid, but you're carrying on the best that
you can. And I just listened to some good people.
And when you wind up with the mafia and you
wind up with Frank and all those guys in Vegas,

(34:57):
you're told keep your nose clean. And you know, I've
got a hold of this career and I'm saying i
don't want to lose it, so I'm not going to
do this. I'm not going to do that. And I
just you know, look, none of us got in this
business sophisticated. Now we all run that jury journey, crawling
along that avenue, hoping one day we'd grow up and
be wise enough to deal with the success. So it's

(35:19):
just listening to people having not been the smartest person
in the room and just behaving more than that. You know,
it just caught Yes, isn't focusing on my career and
focusing on what I did best?

Speaker 3 (35:30):
So, in other words, what comes down to you got
involved with the right beep. And you were smart enough
to understand.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
That success as many fathers.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Because when you were having more your success, you were
a kid. You must have been hit on by a
million people. Let me manage you, Let me do this,
let me do that. Am I correct a ton?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
One of my regrets was on sixth Avenue running in
to a good friend, David, who wanted to manage me.
And Sandy Gallan at the time was my agent, and
David wanted to manage me, and I said, you know,
I don't know. I've got to think about it. And
that was one of my regrets. I never wound up

(36:11):
with him.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
David Who David Geffen? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:13):
What about David Geffen?

Speaker 3 (36:15):
David joking? I was just saying, what about happened to that? Yeah?
Those days. In those days, David was a very important manager.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
He was an agent. No, no white years, but he
was an agent first. No, no, what years he thought
sixties sixties? Yeah, no, at that.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Point he thoughted off working as William Morris, right, and
then then he started with Laura Niro's that's right, that's
right exactly.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
That's what I ran into him. Let's get back to you.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Okay, enough about me. What'd you think of my last yell?

Speaker 1 (36:50):
You're in mind? What was your biggest deal that you negotiated?
Because you're a negotiator beyond with great skills, what was
your biggest deal? Tell us if you can.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
What I can't give you the names, but I'll tell
you that the category about four years ago, a lot
of the elder or were not elder, some of the
mature artists decided that they wanted to sell their publishing
so that they can start organizing their estates. So over

(37:25):
the last few years, for the largest publishing deals that
were ever made, I made. I'm very proud of it.
So those financially were we were with the most the
largest deals financially. But you know, over the years that
I've been fortunate enough to be involved with, you know

(37:46):
several details that were were several transactions, were several situations
that became very very important, Like example, Spotify, when they started,
they they retained me to go to the record companies
to make those initial deals so they could started in business.
I never knew what it would have become. In the

(38:11):
early eighties, I was hired by MTV in a very
similar situation that they had to go to the record
companies to get the videos so that they can start
the network. The interesting thing is when a cup, when
those situations arose, you don't realize at the time the

(38:32):
historic value of it until later on. So certain deals
I did were very very important, and other deals were
very very elucrative, and a few.

Speaker 6 (38:43):
Of them overlapped. So your success has been well documented.
But when you were starting out after leaving Walter Yetnikov,
so people who were listening of a concept of how
you got yourself in a position.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Was yeah, no, you're working with yet at the label.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
No.

Speaker 5 (39:01):
No.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
I just represented all the big acts in the eighties.
I represented Billy, Joel and Springsteen and for a while
Michael Jackson and Luke, all the big acts on CBS
in those days. I was the lawyer and he was
out of the company. Tell me Matula, Tommy Mattoler. Yeah,
the late eighties, when waltertna cop got fired, he became

(39:24):
and for him I was also his lawyer and old friend. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:29):
I was saying, when you started, though, we name one
or two of the first acts, not the biggest names.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
When I started my own firm in seventy five, these
two French guys who I knew from Europe came to
see me and they said, we're moving to New York
and we want to make records, disco records, because in
the from seventy five to eighty was the height of
disco era. And I said, okay, fine, blah blah blah.

(39:58):
And they didn't have any money. So one of the
guys who was the creative partner, said, do you have
a piano in your house, right in your apartment. I said, yeah,
said do you mind if I used it because I'm
trying to write some songs. He ends up writing in
the Navy, YMCA and San Francisco on my piano in

(40:22):
my living room. And so, to answer a question, from
seventy five to eighty, I was the king of disco.
I represented the cool in a gang, the Village People,
Casey in the Sunshine, I'll give you a lifts deal.
Bogart Neil, but I represented Deil Bogart not remember after
Castle Blank and he start in the record his own Labelah,

(40:44):
but the Village People was on Castle Blank Records. Now
that was a tragic character because he died very very young.
So the first five years when I was in business myself,
I represented all those disco acts. Until this day, Disco
music other than Frank Sinatra is my favorite music.

Speaker 6 (41:07):
I'll be your straight man. So for Paul, tell him
the story what happened when Hall and Oates with the cars,
which is one of my favorite Alan Grubman stories.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
You want me to tell it, Yeah, I want you
to tell it.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I'll tell it.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
So now this is now in the mid eighties, the
early eighties, Pall and Oates was huge. Sarah smiled, blah
blah blah. So I'm renegotiating their deal, and I'm relyegotiating
with the bowyer, with the business business basky walking around

(41:42):
the Beverly Hills Hotel. We'll take your walk around the
circumference and we're you know, we're getting yo. It was
just about done, and we start walking up towards the hotel.
You know when you pull in your walk up that
you drive up that hill. And there was always to
the right three or four rose rooyices that they would

(42:03):
park there, you know, to impress people. Whatever. He said
that he said to me, are we all done? Are
we all done? I said that, really, you know, at
the end of a great meal, you need something sweet.
He said, what are you talking about? I said, you
know you need something three What do you mean? And
I point to a Rolls Royce Corniche. Now he was

(42:26):
from New York. He said what that. I said, it's
called a Rolls Royce Corniche. I said, I want two
of those. RCA at that point owned Hertz said they
also owned the record covery. So he says, you want
two of those. The deal was three million dollars I

(42:47):
was getting for the guys. They were very big and
that was huge money. He said, how about you are they?
I said, in those days they were sixty five thousand
dollars each. Seek one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.
You know, he thought it was nothing, right, he said, okay,
it's done. Deal. Okay, So now I got the three

(43:10):
million dollars and I got them two Rolls Roices. So
I go back to the room and I get on
the phone with Tola was the manager. I get the
three of them on the phone and I said, this
is the deal, three million dollars. And I got to
be the cool expression for Rose Royces A roller R O.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Ll E R.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
And I got to two rollers. You got his two rollers.
They didn't give a shit about the three million dollars
all day were all this thing on. They got two rolls.
It was the good And I learned a very valuable
lesson that. You know, how how people judge things in life.
Some things that are that you think are important are

(43:51):
not as important things that are not important. But I
never forgot that. So that was the story of Paul
and O's in the role as royces.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
And back in those days, you know my history with
Morris Levey. I was building those Strawberries record stores for him.
Did you ever cross paths with him?

Speaker 3 (44:09):
All the time?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
We all did.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
I was representing you remember this book Henry Stone.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
And Miami out of Miami.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, I'm the Henry's Stone and the guys who owned
the light Wreckers that had cooled the gang. It was
basically they were mobsters that they wanted to go straight
to their son. So in those days, uh, there was
a company called k Tell and Mars did the same
thing where you take ten records singles and you put

(44:41):
them a package them and you do it infomercials, sell
them on tell It. So Mars Leebe would never pay anybody,
so they had me go to him and say listen,
you got to pay them. You got to pay them.
He said, well, you tell me what you want, what
and whatever I told him, Me said done. Of course

(45:03):
they never paid them, but I had the walls to
confront him, and it was very very They were in
different times, but as they said, for much more fun.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
But you'll you'll know this phrase because it started with
him and the Urdigans, write a word, get a third.
Now for our audience. That meant when a new act
would go up and see Morris or the Urdigans and
they'd start singing. Some kid off the street. I could
name them all and they'd start singing and if if
I loved you till tomorrow and maybe I could go

(45:38):
before then, and they'd listen more. Say you don't want
to say maybe you'll go? Then you want to say
I will. The kids say okay, whatever. They put their
name on the song, write a word, get a third,
and they got paid. Morris got paid. Erdigans. There were
great guys, but they were ripping off left and right.

(45:58):
God bless them. They were great kids. Characters.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Well you know something, this gentleman die, but he had
a bike. It George McCray, Well, rock your baby. It
was a huge record.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yes, yeah, I remember the record.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
So I said it was Henry Stall. Okay, nobody will
know who he is. I said, Henry, we have to
pay this guy. It's a huge hit. Just don't worry.
I already gave my Cadillac. What do you mean you
gave my cadillac. I gave my cadillac. I paid him.
That's the way the business was in those days.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
That and Payola right now. Yeah, it's a different world,
total different world. How much money I had to lay
out to break a record. Skip. We would go to Philly,
we'd go to Chicago, and it was a program. First
of all, you had to go sing at these hops.
It's the only way they play a record. And that's
how I got the idea for putting on my shoulder.

(46:52):
But you always had to carry a bag of money
with you. These guys got so rich. It was all
about then they got into downt Remember coolgorands that they
elevated into gold because of couldorans over.

Speaker 6 (47:05):
They were for krueger rans, Kruger rands.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, yes, yeah, the gold coins, gold coins. Now, like go,
you gotta take some gold coins with you. Totally different
world back then. You want to get a record, place.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
But it was but it was fun.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I mean, it was a lot of fun, of course
it was.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
It was you know, it was so much fun, and
there was so many characters. And now it's like it's
business because the money is so big. The characters are gone.
And now these companies, most of them are owned by
major companies.

Speaker 6 (47:41):
And the way people watch music, and now now you
have residencies in Las Vegas where you know, and Adele
will you know, perform in one place for a long
period of time and people come to see her rather
than her going out on tour. But when Paul started
and he went out on tour with the rock and
roll Rebel was Alan Freed. You know, everybody had like

(48:03):
one hit, one hit, so they'd come out. Paul would
be traveling with Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee, Lewis, Spats Domino,
you know, everybody, Buddy Holly, and they'd get to a show.
They'd get to a place like in Hartford where I'm from.
They'd go to the State Theater and they'd come out,
they'd sing their one hit bang go on. Next act
comes out sings their one hit bang Gone. And by

(48:24):
the way, they were fantastic shows. Remember Richard Nader.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Well, sure know, Well he booked some of the shows absolutely.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, Richard Nati's Rock and Roll Revival.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah, he copied IRV and everybody else.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
And and that was that. Most artists in those days
had one big hit. The rest was nothing. So when
when this artist would come out and sing that one hit,
everybody would go crazy. Thank god he didn't. They didn't
have to sing a second hit because they didn't have one.
Oh you know, but how did how did you guys

(48:58):
get paid? How did you get shows?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, when I did them, like IRV, when he was
the guy that started all of that, we got the
two three hundred bucks and it went through GAC General
Artists Agency, and we got our money. You know, for me,
it was a lot of money. It was a lot
of money. I think the first big check I got
the Zecondors, big family in New York real estate, real

(49:24):
real estate, real estate, and they opened a place called Freedomland.
So IRV calls up and he said, got you a
big deal. I think we're getting one hundred thousand dollars
for freedom Land for three shows. A lot of money,
and he sends the contract. White Years sixty sixty two,
sixty three sixty four right there.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
That was huge money in those days.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
So now he sends the contract over to GAC General
Artists and the contract comes back ten thousand dollars and
HERV freaks, just what the fuck? Now, we call that
one of the lame agents' it's our hundred thousand. And
the agent says, nobody makes the hundred thousand today, So

(50:06):
they're reconnected. But it was that kind of craziest of
you know, For me, it was working with guys who
were my idols. I'm this kid, and everybody's older than
I am. And when I first met Chuck Berry, who
I loved as you did, he was the guy, in fact,
a big influencer. You know. When I met him in
a dressing room, I broke in to get my jacket signed.
When he came to Canada and I sang Diana to

(50:27):
him and he listened. He looked at me. The worst
song I've ever heard, go back to School. Two years later,
this is before Diana was ever released. During it, before
it's released. Two years later, I'm on tour with Chuck Berry, right,
and then IRV says, well, he's leaving us in New York.

(50:48):
We have to fly him over into Texas, I said, IRV.
Why he said, well, he goes with these young girls
and the police are looking for him and we can't
drive the bus through the state because they'll put him
in jail. So now we fly him to Texas. Then
we had to fly him over Salt Lake City. He
was stooping everybody on whatever they wanted him. Finally we

(51:10):
wound up in Canada and they arrested him put him
in jail.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Well, you know what I always remembered about him, People
told me he would never go on stage if he
didn't get paid cash cash.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
So that's right, before you go.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
On state, they pay him and pick all this money
in his pockets and he go on stage when his
pockets loading and he'd cook bomb. But if he didn't
get paid in cash, he wouldn't go.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
One of the cash a local band, a Cadillac. He
didn't get it. And that was it. That was Chuck's thing.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
It was a totally different time, you know.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
But you know, Alan, there was a time back in
the day when in the South when Paul would be
on these tours, going on these reviews and they pull
up in front of a place to get you know,
get a Colla get you know whatever. Paul had to
go in and get the stuff because the black guys
that were on the bus literally couldn't even go into
these places.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yeah, we'd have to go.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
There was a great movie about that. It was well
with The Green Book, Yes, the Green Book, which was
based on a tree story. That's the way it was
those days. It was dangerous for these kid guys to go.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
We we couldn't even go in the bathrooms out and
we'd slow the bus down to three four miles an
hour and everybody take their turn, open the door and
piss out the door. Couldn't go in the bathrooms.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
By the way, I know people that still do.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
It skip and I know one that did it in
Beverly Ill except you got out of the car. One
of our billionaire fronts watered the plants right on Sunset
and Broad Broad broad daylight.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Hope, I hope your audience gets a sense from this
conversation how much fun it was to be in the
record business the seventies, eighties, nineties, and starting in two
thousand it started to change and it was never the same.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
So Allan the Beatles, the Beatles obviously came and changed everything.
I don't think majors are set up to deliver anything
like the Beatles. I think we've seen that. I don't
think you'll ever see that again.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
Oh No, people are saying this. Taylor's whipp phenomenon is very,
very unique.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
I don't think it's like the Beatles at all.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Well, nothing's like the Beatles. But they're comparing it to
the Michael Jackson phenomenon.

Speaker 5 (53:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Well, she speaks for her fans, you know, and there's
enough of them. It's a niche and with the stadiums.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Whatever she does, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Oh, there's no question. It's an amazing career. But the
impact of the Beatles and the eclectic array of material
you cad, there's nothing to lever equate to the Beatles.
Michael came close.

Speaker 6 (54:03):
Paul met the Beatles before they were the Beatles, when
Paul was performing in Europe.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
I got them there, gig Allan, I got them there, Gig.
I'm in France at the Olympia Theater, and I lived
in France. I got married to France, and I love
the French culture as we all do. And I go
to the Olympia to see a friend of mine, big
star I think it was. It wasn't Asnev where it
was Becos something like that or no limbo, and the

(54:30):
announcer goes, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the English band,
the Batteaus Biteauz. I'm sitting there and these guys come
out with the hair and they were doing covers. I'm
going biteus and they're singing away and say they got something.
I like these guys. Anyway, me and him, I'm there.
They come backstage, we get to know each other. It's

(54:51):
starting a bubble for him. We're London hanging out and
I'm coming back home to New York. Now, you know,
it wasn't the media driven society back then. Nobody knew
what was going on. And I'm going up to Norman Weiss,
who is my sid Bernstein. You remember seeing at the
General Artists. I said, guys, there's this band over an run.
I've been hanging with them and I got this hair
and they're singing and there's something they got some you

(55:13):
got to check it out. Well, you know, nobody knew
who they were. And they said, what do you mean beatles?
I said, guys, I love these guys. Right, Long story short.
Norman listens, he goes over and sees uh uh he
said Epstein. What was the guy's name, Yeah, but the
Brian Epstein, Brian, He's yeah, he brought fade out, fade in.

(55:37):
They bring him over at sixty four, and you know
the rest of the story.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Ed Sullivan show.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
That's right, Well, Matt, they played the ballpark and then
Ed Sullivan.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I was a page at CBS when it when they
when they perform, I mean, it was unbelievable. But yeah, no,
the Beatles that are in a category, well they changed history.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Yeah right, they opened the doors all and we were
a band of kids with our fans. Nobody liked this.
No one liked Elvis when they came over. They opened
it up for Madison Avenue. Now, all of a sudden,
we became relevant to a lot of people that didn't believe.
And I think it's that's the amazing story.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
You know. I I see Paul and Mahammon. You know,
I've met many, many famous people just like you guys.
He's the most down to earth, non pretentious guy.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
Me.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
I mean, just a regular guy. But he's pulling thecart.
He You know, if some people say to me, who's
the most famous rock star in history. There's nothing to
think about. It's pulling McCart. Nobody is on that level.
Bruce saw Mick Jagger or Vona Presley. What about Elvis Presley?

(56:52):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Paul neck and Neck and I would say Elvis a
little bit really international internet nationally. If Elvis walked down
the street, you nail him. If Paul you know he's
a humble guy, and I would say it's Elvis. Elvis Presley. Now,
Elvis wasn't the writer that McCartney is. You know, he
was the He was the motivator in that band from

(57:13):
what I understand, and very very talented. But Elvis Presley,
when you look at the whole package and the it
of rock, it was Elvis. And you know I saw
him a couple of months before he died and knew him.
It was very sad, but he's the guy that made
the big footprint as his solo act as opposed to
a group beetles. Definitely.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Elvis died at forty two.

Speaker 6 (57:35):
Right.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
I will tell you an Elvis Presley's story. His manager,
Colonel Parker, his name was. He had a unique arrangement
with Elvis. They were equal partners.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Fifty fifty, which.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Is very unusual. Usually a manager takes ten percent fifteen,
but equal partners. Elvis was playing in Las Vegas and
the colonel was a very big gambler, big roulette whatever
it was, okay, and he owed what was it, the
International whatever, the hotel.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
The International of the Hilton. Yeah, he lost a lot
of money.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
So he owed them a lot of money. So he
goes to his wrec He goes to Elvis's record company
with RCA and he says to the man who was
in charge of Elvis Presley at the company, Listen, I
need an advance. Elvis needs an advance of two million dollars.

(58:37):
Would you please try to take care of this? And
the guy says, it's a lot of money, but let
me see it, because already Elvis Presley's career is courting
on us, the difference between him and the Beatles. Elvis
the last several years he was like out of it.
So anyway, so the guy from the record company comes
back a couple of weeks later. He says, listen, I

(58:58):
can't get you at which is an advance against his royalties.
I can't do that, but I can give you five
million dollars and buy out all of his royalties. So
no matter how that works, no matter how many reckons
he sells, he'll never get another dime. As soon as
that came out of his mouth, Colonel Parker says, done

(59:19):
so he took the five million, okay, took two and
a half million, and gave Elvis to him. Elvis died
six months later, and the first six months after he
died he would have earned sixty one million dollars in royalties.
That's a true story. And then of course the fan
blah blah blah. But because the Colonel's greed at his

(59:42):
gambling problem, financially, it was a tragic missaying.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
He was earning one hundred thousand a week. I believe Elvis,
you know, and obviously the colonel needed the money. But
it was notorious all over town. We all knew what
was going on, let alone the fifty percent alone from
the guys. I knew that worked with him when I
hang with him. He never spoke to the colonel at
the end.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
You know that. No, I didn't know that never spoke.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
It was just locked horns, and that was it. Not
good at the end at all. He comes sit in
my dressing room Mount. He'd come in with these guys
from Memphis, a nice bunch of guys. It was his boss.
They're all in black and they got the capes and
he'd sit there. Hey Polly, Hey Polly, I'd like to
show you. Know, man, I like that sell on My Way.

(01:00:28):
I'm gonna sing it. Let say, Elvis's not your kind
of saw, No, man, it means a lot to me.
Now here's a guy that sat in my chair Allan,
let's say in June, and by the time I saw
him again, and let's say October, he'd put on fifty pounds.
He was his face. It was so sad to see.

(01:00:49):
And yet to him, my Way meant everything that he
was going to do. And my next favorite record to
Frank's is Elvis. When he sang my Way, it was
very touching, you know, to see him, what he was
like in front of me knowing something was I'd say, Elvis,
let's go to dinner. Can't go to dinner with you, PAULI.
And when I see him in veil, I used to
take my family and he was up there. He wouldn't

(01:01:10):
come out till eight at night when they had to
put the lights on the slope so that he could
play on those snowmobiles. And you go in his room
at the Hilton Allen Skip there was aluminum foil all
over the windows. Never saw the sun.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Why why, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
He's a light to dark. He never wanted to see
the sun. And the one time up there, he had
this thing for Robert Gulay. Don't ask me our what,
but you know he loved guns. He had fucking guns.
They all had guns. And one time Gooley came out
the screen and they shot the fucking television set and
I'm looking at it. I I don't like that guy, PAULI.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
But is what I'm talking about. These things don't happen today.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Will you remember Phil Specterer with guns? First time I
shot up a ceiling?

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
But did he died? He died in Jale, Right, Yeah
it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, yeah, but he was back with guns back when.

Speaker 6 (01:02:07):
So Paul, I have to say it pivot away from
music per minute. So you I think you know this,
But Edie and I and Alan and Debbie have traveled
the world together, literally the world, and into thirty countries
and major cities and a lot of places where we
can no longer go like Russia among them. But you know,
we've been to Australia and all throughout Europe and Vietnam

(01:02:27):
and Machu Pichu. But we took a trip to Istanbul once.
And when we were in Istanbul, we had a guide,
you know, that took us from the hotel, showed us around.
He said, listen, you're interested in seeing any you know
Oriental rugs. We're famous, we're famous for them here. So
of course we said.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah, fine.

Speaker 6 (01:02:45):
He said, they got it on one place, very special place.
So he takes us over there and we win. There's
an old, old man with a long beard sitting amongst
all these rolled up rugs, and he's there, and he's
got the two sons there with him, and the guy
that introduces us to him, and he starts talking about
the various rugs and whatever. He said, but there is

(01:03:07):
one rug that's very unique. It's from the Isfahan region
and that makes it even border valuable.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
And i'd like to show to you that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:16):
Sons, go Dad, no, no, Dad no, no, we can't
do that, Dad no, no, he said, no. Obviously, I'm
not going to sell it to them, just want to
show it to them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
So he takes out this rug.

Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
The two sons picked this gigantic rug up and they
roll it out on the floor and it's the most
beautiful rug. It's just gorgeous. And Alan's looking and he
says okay. Alan says, listen, buddy, everything's for sale. Come on,
you see you a rug merchant? How much you off
for the rug? And the sons are going, Dad, No, no, Dad,
don't do it, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Set up, set up, total.

Speaker 6 (01:03:49):
Setup, And Alan starts thinking, Alan one of the great
negotiators of our time. Alan starts negotiating with the guy
and Alan ways up buying the rug, and the sons
have tears in the rise you know they're.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
At and in the back room there with ten more.
I bet to go drive.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Exactly at at ten in the morning, they were rehearsing
when some schmuck comes in.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Remember you, they didn't have to rehearse if they were
doing that act for the last twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
It's like Italian restaurants, I swear, in the morning, they
all get together and they rehearse. You're going too an
Italian restaurant at night. Anyone that we go to they
fuss over you an I'll skippy, I want you here,
let me no, don't touch him. I'm not gonna take that,
don't I swear. They rehearse in the goddamn kitchen every morning.

Speaker 6 (01:04:39):
So Allen, this hour went by like ten minutes. But
before we go, I just want to ask for people
that are listening, especially to the younger people, what are
the most important skials are necessary to be a good negotiator.
What does it really take?

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is the ability to relate to people,
the ability for people to like you, ability for you
to like people. And the most important thing the ability
and the balls. Ask for the moon and if you
and what usually happens when you ask to the moon

(01:05:12):
you get something three quarters close to the moon. One
of the most important things about negotiating, which people don't realize,
you have to have the bulls to ask. Most people
really don't have the balls to ask. And that's the secret.
If you have emotional intelligence, then you have the balls
to put a big neighbor name number on the table.

(01:05:34):
That's the beginning of successful negotiation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
You know, I said, Skip, All men in America have balls,
but they don't know how to use them.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
That's right, They just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
It gets down to the people that say they're going
to do and don't and the people that say they're
going to do and do right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
That's the one percent, the second one that's right. I
enjoyed disguise. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
We loved it, Alan, We loved that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Take it easy, Get my room ready, on, make sure
my room is ready.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
You owe me a dinner around. I picked up the
last check. I want you to remember that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
I owe you too, because you know why why yup?
Wall Anka?

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Oh are you shoot? Well? We love our music business,
and what we know, Alan, is that music today means more,
and it's being consumed by more people than ever before,
which means it's going to even get better.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
You're right on that note.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
And I'll sleep outside of the tent on the first
invite to your house, I'll sleep outside of the tent.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
You got it? Not goodbye everybody, Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Our Way with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a
production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtog, with supervising producer
and editor Marcy Depina.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
It was engineered by Todd Carlin and Graham Gibson, mixed
and mastered by the wonderful Mary Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave
us a review.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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