August 14, 2024 • 69 mins
In this riveting business masterclass, the legendary “merchant prince” of retail reveals how he transformed the Gap and J. Crew into world-wide brands, built Old Navy from the ground up, and launched his latest venture, Alex Mill, with his son.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy
Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this
is Paul Anka.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And my name is Skip Bronson. We've been friends for
decades and we've decided to let you in on our
late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet
some real good friends of ours.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
There, leaders in entertainment and sports, innovators in business and technology,
and even as sitting president or two. Join us as
we ask the questions they've not been asked before, tell
it like it is, and even sing a song or two.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I think clothes have to be I call them normalies.
I look at the way people dressed and forgetting my
own style. The chain's ad vintage. I've worn the same
style shooting in million years. But I think to me,
important things have lasting for their class suit, but they
(01:13):
don't go out of style. You don't have to take
a mortgage out to buy.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Oh hey, Paul, what are you eating? I can tell
you're eating something. Yeah, we'll be getting my voice like yours.
I just had a cough drop, but he still can't
match up with your tones.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
But I'm I'm working on it.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
We have a bad we need a bad sore throat. No, no,
not at all. I feel great. I feel great, But
I was just couldn't Aaron brought one by and he
couldn't couldn't let a cough drop go by. So we've
got my friend Mickey Drexel one that's gonna be great.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
You're gonna you're gonna love it.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
He is, let me say this, He's an open book.
He loves to tell his stories and he's got great
you know, as we've learned, and Jordan, our producer, has
always pointed out, you know, we need people with good stories,
but who are also good storytellers, and with Mickey Drexler,
we have both.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
And he's the.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Reason why he's one of the most desired guests on CNBC.
He's got a great point of view on the world
and when he's done in fashion, and you know, he
was one of the original board members of the of Apple,
involved in the development of all those fabulous stories.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
And Taylor Gap was a very successful guy.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
J Crew, you know, which he turned around and made great.
Now he's got his own company with his son Alex
called Alex mill and that's his new passion.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
He loves to work. This is the guy.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
He's like you, and I would like to say, like me,
never going to retire. He's just going to keep working.
He loves to work. He loves the process of creating.
And I'm sure he's going to talk to you about
you know, the creative you know, eight of you, because
he's got that as well.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
I look forward to it. I'm a big fashioned guy.
They're creative people and I've always had an eye for
that and I'm looking for I've heard a lot about him,
read a lot about him. It should be very cool.
I'm glad the Olympics are over. Actually I get some sleep,
but what an incredible event every night with those kids.
You got to take your hat off. They're unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I did some selective viewing. You know, I'm a big
you know.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Oh yeah, you have to cherry picket.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm a golf fan, so I have to tell
you that golf was unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Scottie Scheffler, the number one player in the.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
World, shot a sixty two ten under par on the
last round to win the gold medal on a golf course.
It's very, very difficult. You don't shoot sixty two on
that golf course. He you know, he overtook the the
you know, the leaders and won the tournament, and that
to me was really fun and exciting. It's for no money.
You know, these guys don't get paid anything. Well, don't
(03:56):
keet me started on that. You're not much money's being
made by the investors.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Billions billions.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
When you said the investors, what do you mean.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Investors, Well, everybody that's invested or it's behind all of
these events. They're making a fortune or not paying these
athletes anything. They make a fortune.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
You didn't know that.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
Oh yeah, they make a fortune villions. Let alone, what
the town wherever it's held. It's such a money machine.
And these poor athletes don't get a damn set.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And the broadcasting rights.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
You know, it's oh, it's huge, huge. I mean, you'll
see the day when you look at me and say, wow,
these athletes will step up somehow and they'll get their
fair share of what I think they deserve.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Frankly, it's going to be great when they have the
Olympics in Los Angeles in twenty twenty eight because part
of the challenge for the Olympics being you know, in
another part of the world you already know, you know,
because you can't help it today with with you know,
being bombarded with media and getting your alerts on your
phone alread you know who won the gold medal in swimming,
(05:02):
you know who won the gold medal in gymnastics because
you get an alert on your phone. The beauty of
it here, it'll be in real time for us that
you know, living out here, so that'll I think it
makes it even more compelling.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
Yeah, for sure. But the events are fantastic. I didn't
like some of the opening, which I thought was a
little bizarre, but once they got into it, got my
admiration to those kids. Kids says wonderful. Young people are
so dedicated. It's unbelievable, really unbelievable stuff. Yeah, but I'm
looking forward to to Mickey because I don't think we've
(05:37):
quite had anyone on that's had that kind of success story.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
He's very unique, and you know, he's also been an
angel round investor in a number of companies and you know,
you got in on the ground floor and they want
him not just for the money, but also for his
own expertise in in brand building.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
He's a brand building so it'd be fun to talk
to him about that.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
And ask him where he thinks the puck is headed.
So I'll talk to you. Let's see, it's probably not
going to talk to you until later tonight.
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Well, i'll talk to you as usually before you go
to bed.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yeah, all right, pliny, I love you, alt.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Sleep, love you back by Ccho's.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Oh, mickey, there's my guy.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
What's up?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Guys?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I guess the first question was have you and I
ever met?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But we probably a genetically acted, so you're probably right.
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I grew up. I was New Yorker. I came down
from Canada at fifteen, worked at Brooklyn Paramount. We're about
the same age. How old are you?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Mixed?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, I'll be eighty in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well I just turned eighty three a week ago.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You're a fucking amazing Skip this.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I don't usually hang out with friends who my age,
but Skip, it's an exception.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
So the rule I said, I said, for me to
interview you would be like me interviewing myself, because I
know there's nothing that you don't know about me, and
there's nothing that I don't know about you.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That's true, But I think it'll be fun for people
who don't know you to hear hear about you.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, you know, Skip, it's like Brooklyn Bronx Jeans west
Ard three Wall, from the same ghetto. Now, where did
you live when you moved to New York.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Ball I lived in Tenafly, New Jersey. Then I lived
in New York City on fifty seventh and sixth seventh,
that building on the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So he was from the man of born, Skip, fancy hardly.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
He was not from the manor born anymore than you
or I were.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Then I was living in Washington, d C. Till I
became became of age.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Mickey. You know the Johnny Cash song I've Been Everywhere, No, No,
there's a great song where he lists all the cities
and that Paul. Paul's been everywhere, He's lived everywhere, He's
done everything, He's checked every box.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, he's he's been around. Yeah, Paul, what's your favorite
song done in your whole life? I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, I'm somewhat humbled by that because we're supposed to
be interviewing you. But I'll very quickly take it away
from me and tell you my favorite song is anything
that's good?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, But see you have a lot of songs then,
but there's no emotional favorite.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, my emotional favorite of mine? Yes, yours okay, Sammy
Davis Junior. I wrote a song for him called I'm
Not Anyone my favorite my way of course for Sinatra
and a song called do I Love You? Don't you
know by Now, which I wrote when my wife was
having our fifth child. Those are my favorites.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Wow, yeah, Well Sinatra was the king always.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
He will always be the king. He will always be
the king, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, yeah, he sure will be.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I want to know about you because Skip has obviously
ran it all down. But your input with the Gap
and you inherited that and you went to work at Gap, right,
how did you figure out what direction to go with
the Gap?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You know? It's interesting and it's probably true in your world,
in the real estate world, it's all about a vision
of what the future will look like embedded in your brain,
and it's interesting. Twelve years in department Steare is. The
first company I actually ran was Anne Taylor. That was
(09:34):
my first THEO job. But Antello was a good training ground.
It was very successful GAP. I had a picture of it,
and what I thought is there was no place in
America because I grew up in the bronx dollars. You
know everything you like Ralph Laurren, who I've always had
(09:55):
great respect for. His clothes were unaffordable in my mind,
and I still live in bronze doyles. You skip, but
I look at prices and all that. But I thought
what American needs was a place to shop where you know,
it's personal to a degree, but where you could buy
(10:17):
nice clothes, lots of color. Classic I called the uniforms
in America in the sense it sounds like uniforms boring,
like this Navy T shirt gray every day in my life.
And so I had a list before I got the
GAP at you of the startup that would in fact
(10:39):
be GAP. I didn't know I was going to work there,
but it was your startup. But it's fishing, it's always
seeing around corners. It's skating to whereas Gretzky said, to
where the puck is going. And that's what I do.
And you can't help it. You can't control the mind
(10:59):
about thinking every day and now you write songs. But
I assume it's saying I got a song in my head,
and so that's selling the Gap. I had a vision.
It was a nightmare the first few years to implement
the vision. Moved from you know, Manhattan to death Cisco
worked in an office park of San Bruno. But you know,
(11:23):
I was a young person and I was trying to
figure out where to go after working for the big
department stores where I never wanted to be a boss there.
So it's always a picture in my brain. J Crewe
Gap Old Navy, Uh Mayde, Well, you know Old Navy
started just in the brain and then named after bar
(11:45):
in Paris. Maybe well, I purchased the name. I'm fast forwarding,
but I purchased the name after I left GAP and
kept it. And that I joined Jay Crew and what
we when public? I said, now it's time to do
made work. And you feel it in your head. I
(12:06):
think it's the same in any creating world. You have
a no shame, I say, if you know, you know,
most people don't. In my opinion. My world anyway, business
and songwriting, which my wife as in. So I just
finished a documentary on Diane Warrant. I'ven't even heard any
(12:28):
far Peggy was a producer with others amazing. You must know, well,
very very well.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Great great songwriter.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, great songwriter. But I always say to people you're
born with things or you're not born with it. And
they say, well, how do I become an entrepreneur? There's
entrepreneurial classes and you're never going to learn that classroom
or how to write a song or taste or style.
So a lot of it is very inter it's down.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I've always said it gets down to the people that
say they're going to do something and don't and those
that say they're going to do something and do big
differential through life. I've noticed that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well I couldn't agree more. But the people who are
going to do something need to have the built well
in my world, in your world, I look at them
as two totally creative and in real estate that exists.
I was just a guy from Graduate Hotels looking for
a location whatever. But it gets down to those who
(13:35):
want to do it, and we'll get knocked down. I've
been knocked down my whole career. You get knocked down,
you get back up. And also, you're not a spoiled brat.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Remember where you came from.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You know what, Mickey, You know, you and I know
each other so well. We speak on the phone, what
three or four times a week, just checking in, and
it's painful because you and I we grew up, we
each had a dysfunctional parent. But just to help people
who don't know you, and just to go back for
a minute at the very beginning, you know you always
(14:10):
we kid each other. My father was a window trimm
or your father sold buttons. You know, But tell Paul
and the other people are listening how it all started.
Where you grow up, the good the bad, you had
it both both ways, before we segue into you know,
your rather incredible career.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, well you know I love that question. Skip When
I interview people now, I've learned over the many years
of running companies, I don't care where they go to college.
I don't care what the board scores are, I don't
care what their graines are. I interview them based on
who they are, and I actually prefer less privileged Ian
(14:51):
then the more privilege. I've just had lunch today with
someone who said, you know, you work hard. Son worksismus
in summer. He hates it, but he does it. And
I said, those are the kinds of people I identified it.
But I grew up in the Bronx. When growing up
(15:11):
in the Bronx, it was I didn't know what I had,
but didn't that because I lived in a ghetto. I
lived in a ground floor apartment in apart in one
bedroom with mom and dad. My father, oh ye is
all I could say. I wouldn't have chosen him if
I had any choice. On the other hand, in hindsight,
(15:34):
he created a lot of my ambition, a lot of
hard work and wanted to escape. And I didn't want
to be like him. Although Skip's father has the greatest
quotes in the world, I have to say that I
don't know pull those all those thoughts. But I grew
up in the Bronx. I went to elementary school. My
(15:56):
mother was very ill and depressed because she had breast
cancer early in her life. And my father was I
don't know. He had no emotion, he had no connection.
He was just in his own little world. And I
guess they called that on the spectrum today. He was
a big shot in his own made He was you know,
(16:18):
the button he bought buttons from manufactory, worked in the
shipping room. But he was a big shot and his
fansins reacted that way compared to the rest of my
family in the ghetto down the street. But he was
not encouraging. He was not happy with me and what
(16:41):
I did. He never really appreciated what I did. But
that's what are under the bridge, and I do thank
him for being who he was, which created a huge
tribe of escape. I lived in my fantasies. I didn't
like being at home. I used to hang out at
my ands down the street. But you know, you deal
(17:03):
with it because you don't realize when you're growing up
how tough it is or how tough it was. And
our kids, you know, they all grew up in a
different way. I see that. But I worked my ass
and my father in not in a nice way, always
made me work, delivered the New York Times and in
(17:25):
high school in towel sorting in the basement. But I
always worked in the garment business. I delivered peace goodns.
I you know, got coffee in the morning. I saw
Wilkinson's sort blades, which were hard to get then, like
come street, but I never thought twice about it, other
than as they got older, I saw the world is
(17:49):
very different than the world I know, and I was
starting to say, oh my god, look at this and
look at that. You know, my mom worked as a
secretary for all the years doing for a guy who
ran the YMHA in the South Bronx. I went to
the YMHA camp with sessions in the summer. She was there,
(18:14):
but I never thought, wow, missions whatever. So I always
lived in my dreams and I never thought, you know,
I just kept just sing in front of me in
a way, and nothing with all I lived through, I
still got up and I thought. I went to Bronze science.
I like it. Everyone was intimidated me by their grades,
(18:39):
and I finally realized, too many us later, there's school smart,
there's life smart, and there's hard work and discipline and
ethic work ethic, but you gotta also use your brain.
So my childhood was not enjoyable. My mom died when
(19:01):
I was sixteen years old, and my father, you know,
skip my seventh family. I can't even talk about this here.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
If I ever told the pall of the stories, you know,
and down always laughed. But it was very difficult, and
I lived in an environment that I had to escape.
I went to City College. I escaped to Buffalo because
it was important for me to get out and away
from him and the family. And so I went to Buffalo.
(19:35):
I was very happy, could have been anywhere, you know.
But and then I went to work. After I worked
in a career and I started the department store business.
I decided after a few years, I wasn't meeting people
who inspired me. And this is all in hindsight. You know,
you do something and then you realize, you know that
(19:58):
this is no I had no mentors. Everyone has a
mentor today, all these in our generation. I'm stone mentor.
And you know, there was never anyone who was like
a role model. We just in our it's again generational
right now, every young person. I spend a lot of
(20:19):
time with young people, telling them the truth about what
life is like. But a lot of them I can't
blame them for growing up or even our own kits
and growing up the way they'd grown up. You grew
up in the borough of West Hardford, balls and did
you say?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
But making not to interrupt you, but in looking at
you know how amazing you faced every challenge. Every guy
that I've respected in business and that I've met, and
I've been fortunate enough to meet them on all levels.
They were all avid readers. Are you and were you
self taught and a reader?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Never?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Never?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, there's a Yiddish term called spilkus as in.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
My hands spocus.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You had spocus, Yeah, I had spilcus. I was an
avid imagination, lived in my fantasies and my dreams and it. No,
I didn't read avidly, although I want to be able
to do it even today. I can't like sit down
and read book, but that's me. No, I wasn't an
(21:25):
avid reader and I wasn't an avid student. I never
used anything I've learned in school. I saw some'se tryangs, parallelograms,
chemistry codes. A lot of that was memorization. And if
you're good at memory, you didn't get good grades too.
I wasn't. I didn't pay attention. But no, I didn't
(21:47):
read much. I still don't, unfortunately, because.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I still think you're an amazing success story.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Well, uh, thank you, Paul, But you want to know
I think every day I still climb them that I
try to prove myself and I try to do better
than I did yesterday. And I never forget who I
was and I still am.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Then, So, Mickey, are you close to putting the flag
in the mountain. Do you see that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
No, No, because uh, you know, you keep climbing the mountain. No,
and Alex Mill Frankly, at this stage in my life,
I'm more ambitious here for it to be successful because
I have to leave a company to the people that
are going to run it that's economic, viable, thasible and
(22:40):
has a future. And we're building and I'm working. Frankly,
I think better than I've worked. It's kind of weird,
but my mind is I feel more creative, but more
whatever because I'm not dealing with investors. I'm not dealing chairman.
(23:01):
I'm dealing with myself and the teen and we don't
have any investors. So it's kind of a dream that
I work for the team. Those are my bosses.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
When you were starting out, though, you never could have
imagined that you'd be known as the merchant, prints, that
you'd have a reputation that you created, that you do
the things that you did. But did you dream about
being rich? Did you ever think I want to do
this because I want to be rich. I want a Cadillac,
I want to have a beach house or did you
never even go there?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
You know, I never went there because I didn't know
what being rich was like. With my father and his
generation Cadillac convertible boom. You were rich when I went
to sleep away camp in the wherever I went after
the Lafos, you know, the Cadillacs set visited rich Jeff
(23:53):
Reave Meal to get a yellow Cadillac. Woud father worked
for an air condition whatever carrier or whatever. Wow, I
never thought about it, even in hindsight. Now it's really interesting.
I sent to Peggy the other day. I said, you know,
I look back at our life and I never kind
(24:15):
of imagined it would. I mean, I look back, I'm
very impressed with whoever he was and what he did.
But I still every day, what do you know, we
skip by every day. I'm trying to do better. I'm
very difficult of myself. I'm very self critical person of me,
(24:35):
and as Skip knows, we have a lot of people
we are critical of. But we can't go here on that.
You know, I'm just singing to the singing to the well.
You know, I'm big shots. I rememberable when I's a
young person in my twenties. You know, at the department stores,
(24:57):
they were all big shots the bosses, and I thought
they're big shots, and I learned over time they're not
such big shots. Titles don't mean that you are the
most successful person in the world. I like people like today,
I had lunch with a friend Dish I'm known her
(25:17):
bit and the waitress, Diana, was from Peru and that's
my friend at Saint Ambrose across the street. She and Marco,
the manager. Marco's smart for what they do. Marco, she's
a funny story. They hadn't The chefs on chef sell
(25:38):
not chef. There's com salad on the menu. So I
got it about a month ago. I quote him now
it was hardly need bacon bits, So I said, Marco,
there's no baking bits hard and you can't even see it.
And the cop sell. He comes out of the kitchen
with a cup of bacon bits. I said, thank you.
He goes, this is not just an ingredient. It's me
(26:02):
and great to hear. I U said all the time.
That just says it all. But those are the people
that I like. I like nice people, and I like
people who have a leg down.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The title thing is interesting because when I started off
my first legitimate job selling insurance working and hard for
an insurance company. You know, the salesman, the guy that
ran the general agency made more money than the president
of the company. So speaking of titles, you know, the
title was one thing that you know, the president of
(26:45):
the company got to walk around as the president of
the travelers insurance company. But in terms of just sheer dollars,
the guy that was the head of sales made more money.
Now today, of course, and Mickey gets offended by this, Paul,
I have to tell you up front. You know, he
looks at what some of these executives make the CEO
pay and it infuriates him, just finds it's distasteful.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It is distasteful.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, it is distasteful. It's not based on anything. But look,
I don't want to go there, but I guess I'll
go there. I think you know, CEOs today and probably
in the old days, you know, they were big machers
watching spec and you know, I realized that if you
(27:31):
look play the part, well, not certainly, not everyone, but
if you're a safe bet for the board of directors,
if they don't have a risk of picking the wrong person,
it's not uncommon. And then you look at the results
and they're making twenty twenty five. We got the private
(27:53):
jet they this day, and that do something for the shareholders.
I've always worked number one on the people I've worked
with and the shareholders without a doubt. No, I was
in that level of crazy numbers, but on stock price
beyond paid for it in terms of its growth. And
(28:14):
Steve Jobs sixteen years as his director member and his friend.
That guy never one day would come in and think, oh,
I'm Steve Jobs. Well, I said, you're Steve Jobs. But
he was just someone who cared about building a business. Yeah,
(28:36):
we all have about quirks, but I the best in
the world, and he wasn't there to have a nego
at all.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Speaking of a quirk, though, You've got to do this.
I have to tell Paul the story about Christmas time
when the board members at Apple could get like, you know,
a laptop, or they could get an iPhone or whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
You told me this story, right, I didn't remember it.
But when Steve called, Yeah, how I didn't you know
that story?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
You told it to me.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Well, he has a better memory. I guess.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
You got free things, you know, to say what Steve
wasn't happy I'm using it and I, uh, what are
those other things called? Before the I uh, the you
know what I mean, the own black bear, right. I
used to have that at the border use anyway you
(29:34):
could pick free things free f r E. I didn't
even how to work your computer. And Steve skip reminded
calls me and say I ordered too many free things,
and I was kind of embarrassed. I don't know, I
(29:55):
didn't know how many to order. Maybe it was fourth things.
But he's telling me, I'm being a little indulgent.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
No matter what.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
He did.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Love to guy Paul, the guys on his board of directors,
the company is a rocket ship. He's concerned that maybe
Mickey asked for one too manything.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
He's got his eye on the ball. He's focused, right, Hey, Mickey,
going back to vision, which I think is imperative in
business today. The whole COVID experience kind of separated the
men from the boys. Everybody got hit pretty badly. And
then the evolution out of it into trying to get
on track again. How has it changed in your business?
(30:37):
So I know some of the players in the industry
to what's happened to the malls, the online all of that.
Where is it landing and where's it going?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Mickey, Well, Paul, it's a good question, surely personal because
I you know, I'm not the smartest guy, and all
I can do is estimate where it's going. And I
think what it did shift the world up there the
hell out of all of us. But I think you
(31:07):
know it's over, it's gone. I think what's happened in retail,
independent of the pandemic is that the world and I
don't know if it's true creating song business, the world
of creativity, of product being number one, style, taste, quality
(31:30):
has taken a step down. I don't think that was
pandemic centric. I think that you have to recognize in
any business that creativity grows businesses and it's a necessary
ingredient to keep moving forward. Maybe not I don't know,
(31:53):
whatever ingot business or whatever, banking business, but you know
it's still been necessary. And you just look at what
Jamie Dimond has done. But I think it allowed people
to kind of hide behind the pandemic. Well, I think
again personally, it also seemed to have a portal little
(32:17):
water on creativity or whatever. But I think that's been
going this way slowly. But surely, why do I say
that because investors. We had private ality investors, my friends
whatever at Jay Crew, and they are they won't want
(32:41):
to make money. I don't blame them. If I invest
I want to make money too. But when you're a
director of a company, people are number one people who
work in that company number one, and earnings are good
long term. There's no such thing as as part of
around in my opinion that thanks two years get the
(33:03):
stock price up, how will it stay up? But in
all the years, no offense. And these are my friends too,
people on boards, very few with them, very few had
a sense of the products we were selling. If you
look at a schmatta, you know, people say, well, how
(33:25):
do you know it's going to be good? And not
I a would say there's something in my stomach to
and my belly that kind of buzzes. It's that's what happens.
But in the industry today, with all the data, this
data does not know how to design a good best
seller all right, and whatever the other word is that
(33:49):
tells you how many to buy algorithms. You know, I
did algorithms when I was twenty three, or it's old
and a new buyer it blooming does I just didn't
call it that. I called it looking around, what's the
sense in the island and all that. But when you
lose that, you can mention any industry.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Look.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I think the cars around America worldwide, of like, I
don't know who designs them anymore. There are certain standouts,
but they all have the same swoop in the back
like it's all I always call it the swoop. I
get a kick out of it. Looks like they're designed
in the same design room. And Steve again not to
(34:31):
you know, he's a good name drop, but I always
admired him. He was designed with him and Johnny Eye.
The screwings had to be horson the engine, that this,
whatever it was, it had to be esthetically right. And
he was an I call him great worching in terms
of what he did with the shops. Did everything came
(34:53):
the best retail in the world. But I think right
now and as a skip nose, I connetch a lot.
I can find things. Every day I go to work,
I want to know what could be better and the
team sometimes what is he talking about? I went to
a shop today to check it out, and I knew
(35:15):
the shop well and I saw something there. I said,
you know, we walked away. I don't want to say
we walked away from a fab Why because competitor ish
uses it and I said, let's bring it back. Why
who cares if a lesser competitor hasn't will make it
(35:35):
the ingredient this company? And you know, it's just I
think the world's lost. I don't know how you feel,
young Paul and Skip, you knew a lot of people,
and Skip was in the hotel business when there were
great things being created, you know, and I don't know
where that is to except what there's always going to be.
(35:59):
You know, the out riders do what they do.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Mickey, back to your saying design and the vision. You know,
I spend a lot of time in Asia, but going
there for sixty years. I just got back a few
months ago. And the evolution over there, those department stores,
their taste for fashion. How has that affected your business
or the fashion business? When I see there's so much
(36:25):
focus on that they're all very small and you see
smaller design, clothing, et cetera, et cetera. What portion and
where does that take you in terms of where Asia
fits into your scheme of things were never used to.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Well, you know, I don't go to Asian much anymore.
I think in the past, Tokyo and they had by
far the best stops in the world creatively and product wise.
I understand Korea. Now soul career is the next place
be and it's taking over. I live in my days.
(37:02):
I can paying attention detail I go into a shop.
For me, it's not about trends as much as it's
about the trend that I think is always on trend,
which is clothes that don't go out of style. This
(37:23):
shirt here, for example, ten years old, I were the
same body last twenty years bottomed down blue and white,
stripe white. I think clothes to them have lost their focus.
Now I might create a lot of people say, oh,
but my senses. I only buy things personally. And even
(37:45):
as a kid, I had a uniform. I didn't know
I was in grade school. I had to buckle back gin.
I never thought differently except that I couldn't afford and
I didn't think about this to buy new clothesal time,
except because I was growing. I think I get inspiration
(38:06):
wherever I go. And I said to the team today,
I said, let's go visit the shops. Even in New
York city in Manhattan, I went to two shops this morning.
I came back with those two things and the third
shop that five women. There was a very upscale fashion
and company, very cool, and I mentioned, where is the
(38:30):
alex Mill. We sell them a shell And they said,
why are you asking? And I said, well I worked there,
and they said, we love alex Mill. Now I gave
them it was very terrific, cool company. You know when
the signor world and I gave the meet sure of
(38:51):
VIP card and I said, tell your friends. But I
think creative people. I don't know where you get the
song in ratio. I'm always amazing people who write songs.
I can't imagine worse. So I don't you know. I
don't know, but I find.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, you learn, you learn your craft and it's very spiritual.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I practice my craft for forty five years. That's right,
your craft and and to me and it's not like,
oh my god, and I did it. Some people say
why did white work? To me, it's what I do.
And I think if in an igic way, I feel
(39:32):
I do it better now than I ust. So you
believe it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You believe in micromanaging, Oh well, I beyond and I'll
tell you what I think.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Micromanagings. It's a term that doesn't get respect. You know.
It's like what in danger you got all respect? You
know what it is. And I say this, I come
in and I say anything a customer thieves or fields
and it's not right. Make it better, you know. It's
(40:04):
it's simple. And I see my nusha. I see big pictures.
But I am trained being a customer all my life.
And I know right away from a good vibe when
you get greeted in the restaurant. You know, big line restaurants.
I couldn't kill us who goes there because there's a line.
(40:26):
I feel it. So anyway, that's it in micromanaging. I
if it's I look, I said, I was at a
meeting with a bunch of CEOs and my friend said,
yeahe it runs whatever the vision. And he said, please
come and sit down and just spend some time with me.
(40:49):
Terrific guy Jeff Snfeld, who you might know, he's always
on CNBC. So this is about six or seven years ago.
I sat in and I don't like to go to
I don't have patience to send meetings. But anyway I
sat there must have been at one hundred CEOs, and
I'm like, I just went in twenty minutes. It's the
(41:10):
CEO of a car was there and they showed a
car think screen and Jeff said, Mickey, what do you
think of that car? And it was a classic car
like I liked. It was design, had integrity, et cetera,
et cetera. But I said, I said this, I said,
(41:32):
but I would never buy that car. And they said why.
I said, crustal wheels ruined the car. All I see
is ugly wheels, and and that to me is, you know,
part of what the world's like. I was invited by
the CEO to go to Detroit and they invited you
(41:56):
to go to the design room. Now the CEO, I like,
and I still do, didn't go with me to the
design room. I mean, you know, even as an inviting guests,
obviously he was involved in designing his product. So I
came back. He said, what do you think. I said, Well,
(42:17):
here was seven people designing a car, and one of
them did the interior, the other did grill, the other
pull street. It was like putting together like you know,
I guess when Picassa painted it was his point of view,
and you know, I think that's what goes on creativity. Look,
(42:41):
I might oversee to me, creativity opened this curiosity. I'm
a detective.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Very important, very important, mutually important.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I am a detective.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I just wrote that down because I just literally wrote
a note to myself about curiosity. See one of the
things that was fascinating Paul. I went to visit Mickey
back when he was running Jay Crew, and he had
this gigantic building with all these people and it. He
had a bicycle and he actually used to ride around,
go from place to place within the company to pop
in on people, you know, and petrify everybody. But you know,
(43:18):
one day I was sitting in his office and somebody
came in. You talk about how the zeitgeist. Somebody mentioned
to Mickey the lavender was going to be a really
big color. Mickey had this PA system in the building,
and Micky would get on the public address system and
go lavender, bring me lavender, And people would start walking
into the office scarves. Somebody had scarves, somebody had skirts.
(43:41):
You know, he was looking.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
At I'll give you my lavender story way off point,
but I never heard anymore. I moved to Italy in
the sixties, because the Beatles hit town and I'd been
an international creature, and I said, you know what, Italy
is the place. So I started a company with RCAA
Victor and I'm recording. I'm doing an Italian But I
(44:04):
wanted to meet Gina. Sophia Lauren. She was the hot thing.
Remember you remember the film where she was bare breasted
in the sixties and no one ever seen an actress
like that, And ever since I saw it, I said,
I gotta meet this woman. Anyway, fade out, fade in.
I'm there at noon and back then, Perry Como and
(44:25):
Crosby and all those guys. They started everybody off with
those cardigan sweaters, all colors, buttoned up to here, and
I bought a I must have bought a dozen, one
of which was lavender. So I'm getting ready at the
hotel and I'm going into the studio and I put
on my lavender sweater to impress Sophia Lauren. And I'm
(44:46):
standing there by a mic and I'm counting the seconds
and over the loud speaker in the studio, Miss Lauren
is coming into the building. She'll be in a minute.
I'm standing and I'm waiting and Sophia Lauren walks into
the studio and starts coming towards me. Well, you know,
all of us, I don't care how much money we
(45:06):
have or our experience in life, you're gonna meet that
one person where you're absolutely no tongue tied. I don't
care who you think you are. She walks up to
me and she goes, oh, oh my god, you're wearing
a lavender purple sweater. It's in my unlucky color. And
she left the fucking studio.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Too funny.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
And I never had to. I couldn't say left unlucky number.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm believing that is too funny for the record. Skip
would never be a lap into color that I okay,
I just wanted whatever, just the correct set the record straight,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
By the way, talk about these various brands, I'm thinking
about what you've done and were you know, like the
companies that you've sort of followed or invested in, and
like what do you look for?
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Well, I'm going to be a very circumspect companies. Well,
I'll tell you about Gap. Don Fishing invented a great company.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It was Levi's the Gap what he and his wife right,
Nicky the wife.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Also at the GAP nineteen people who found and start companies,
and you know a lot of examples, they bring it
to a certain point and then they don't know round
two or three happiness all the time. At Gap, Don
was smart enough to know when he hired me, not
(46:48):
that he knew I would be successful or not that
the company was in trouble, and it was in trouble
going this way. And because he invented there's a lot
of inventions where the founders in a way have to
keep telling you all own examples involved. I can't think
(47:08):
of it. So anyway, you know the thing, I'm not
a great investor in companies because when I invest in businesses,
I always think, well, outdoor voices perfect example, where forget
about it. When I invest in companies, I think about
(47:29):
then in my own vision and imagination. When I got
involved in outdoor Voices, I thought that, wow, this is
a competitor to lenment. But stories not pretty the end
of it. But I was chairman. I was given those story.
(47:51):
So but anyway, you've got to look at the long
term and building a company never ends every single day.
I was a GAP for eighteen years. One day I
was out the next day, Steve Jobs called me at night,
(48:12):
tomorrow's your last day. They wouldn't tell him because and
this is not a secret, it's he called me at
night when they had to tell him. And eighteen years
had to rock the year. But hello, So you know,
you just got to understand what people I and I
(48:33):
integert and sensitively and working for your associates is the
number one ingredient of building a great company. But a
lot of people get very self impressed by look at
the chair on and on this some of that. You know,
That's why I thank my growing up years because I
(48:53):
didn't know anyone who like was a big shot, was
a mentor who really was very nice. So I'll call
the little people, which I want to.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
But you talk about you know, one day, all of
a sudden, you're gone. So Paul and I are big
hockey fans. We love watching hockey. And my friend Joel
Quinnville was the head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks, a
team that hadn't won the Stanley Cup in decades. He
won three Stanley Cups, three and all. Then he had
(49:24):
a bad year and boom he was gone. That was
it had a bad year and he turned around that's
what happens. I mean, you see it all the time
in your business, right, it happens.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
All the time. What had been done from me lately.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
So speaking of things being gone, because Paul touched on
this before, but I just would love for you to
amplify this. When I started my career as a shopping
center developer, and mel Simon and Herb Simon believed in
me and they gave me money to go out and
start some projects, you had to have a three department
store or even a four department store and closed mall.
(50:00):
That was it. If I wanted to get you as
a retailer, in order to get you into that into
my shopping center, it had to have three or four
department stores in an enclosed all environment. And now, of
course that's completely gone. I mean there's no such thing there.
I mean they're a very limited number that still even exists.
But as you look forward with trends, because you know,
(50:23):
we had Derek Blasberg on on one of our podcasts
and he was terrific and talked about quiet luxury and
he talked about the new phases and new concepts. But
from retail, is there any particular thing that you see
evolving that other people maybe don't see, or that the
next step in the retail world.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Well, you know, it's a good question. I don't, by
the way, have any clue what quiet luxury is. Is
it luxury that doesn't make noise? I don't know what
it is. It's can they say, kind of the screet
maybe everyone one those who's wearing whatever I think clothes
have to be. I call them normalized. I look at
(51:08):
the way people dressed forgetting my own style. The chain's
a vintage. I've worn the same style shoes in rolling years.
But I think, to me, important things have lasting poor.
They're plastic, but they don't go out of style, and
they don't you don't have to take a mortgage out
(51:30):
to buy them. And what people say, I listen, you
know the clothes today, the prices of designer clothes kind
of forget of people's pocketbook, and then they line up
at the stores. They're buying prestige and status all my opinion,
(51:52):
because they have this now. When I was a young
guy in my late twenties, thirties, and then again I
went to Florence, I used to go there, you know,
for Italy. I was a sweater bowl, and I think
I waited online for Gucci buckle loaf from once and
that was a big deal. Now I don't know what
(52:15):
the big deals are and the prices. I know what
things cost, and I know a lot of people are
talking about the price of close, even not designer closed.
We are fair. That's my gain, always has been my paging.
Fair price is good value. And the other thing that's happening,
which is ominous, is if you start to look at
(52:39):
the prices of the sales that's going on, because there's
this thing happening which I hear from a lot of people.
The retailers are buying the goods, they price them at
a higher price. Why because when they go on sale
they can get their normal margin, and you know what
(53:02):
that does to the integering of any business. So I'm
not a big proponent if in fact, people came in
who didn't see you around corners, who had high integrity
and a vision, and again some of them lvah, I mean,
who's more, you know, more successful. On the other hand,
(53:22):
I don't know who we pay three thousand dollars for
crue neck casume sweater, but they do. So I'm not
a big I'm not that optimistic. I always judge every
business by the people at the top, and there's always
in every probably music is it's skiff been real sick.
(53:46):
You look at who's setting the tone, and you'll look
at who's responsible, and then it goes from there.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Correct, you're very informative. That will you say sales? I've
always abused with that because in reality, do they go
in and they say a sale item. They don't just
buy that, They buy three others and it's not a sale.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (54:07):
Well, you're right, Paul is a bit of a fashionista.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Obviously he has to perform. But what we talked about
the fact when we used to go buy these custom
made suits. Now you look in New York if you
went to a lawyer's office, and let's say the nineties
or even two thousand and you went to a meeting
and you didn't have a coat and tie on, I
mean they look at you like there was something wrong
with you.
Speaker 5 (54:39):
One.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Now, did you ever, in your wildest dreams think that
not only would people no longer be wearing neckties, but
they would no longer be wearing suits to work?
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Well, you know, I never kind of felt would say that,
but we did a casual Fridays at the at Wall
Street and stock Market when we were at GAP and
I think people say that we have had a lot
(55:10):
to do with the casualizing of appalling the world, and I,
you know, I think it's a nice thing to think
we had a lot to do with it. But when
we did, I'll never forget that Friday. We created casual
Friday and who thought it would change the world. But
over the years casual clothes. Look at today, it's rare
(55:33):
to see someone with a tie. I'm not saying it's
right or wrong. I think it's much more comfortable the
way we dress without the you know, net's been tight a.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
How about how about in Europe, like in London in Paris.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
You know, I haven't the last few years. I haven't
been there, so I don't have an opinion. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, I've seen it. I you know, I've been going
there quite a bit for years, and you'd be amazed,
Skip Mickey, I stayed at the Ritz for years, and
the complaint in the last few years from the Matre D's,
the restaurants with the influx of a certain different crowd.
I'll leave it at that. They're sitting there in shorts
(56:17):
and running shoes, and because they've got money, they let
them into the bar. They let him into the restaurant.
And it's the most frightening thing to see because I've
known them through the years, the owners, etc. They say,
we don't know what to do about it. Their parents
are here and these kids have all this money and
that's the way they dress. And we get complaints.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Because you'd go to Broadway, you know, back in the day,
and you know people were dressed up to go to
a play. Now you know, we were in New York recently,
went to a show. No one wearing a jacket or tie.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Skip you know how you know how we traveled years ago,
and I started traveling in the fifties, right but right
for so many years. And I'm sure you guys can
identify everyone the travel on an aircraft, shirt, tie, the cats,
the women were depped, they got off the plane looking
(57:08):
like they walked out or wherever. Unilaterally, everybody was dressed
on that aircraft.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
A hundred percent. I was talking about that with a
friend today. Our son, who's sixteed goes with a suit
and tie on an airplane. It's probably the only kid
in the world. But you know the world's change in
that regard, and I don't you know, I don't want
to be from the man born. I'm not, but you know,
(57:34):
to me there's a certain amount of pride and people
you know, the closer what they are, right.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
Nicky, let me ask you. I want to ask them
the evolution into those brilliant gap ads. How'd you come
up with that?
Speaker 3 (57:48):
Who came up with that?
Speaker 1 (57:49):
I assume that was you?
Speaker 3 (57:50):
No, well, I don't you never do anything by your
team and a gap I never forget. The first can
pain was individuals of style and the woman I worked with, Maggie,
I kept saying, it was just you felt that I
sent our closed Gap. Look, they're very good looking clothes,
(58:15):
simple and they go with almost anything. And we were
noticing people who fancied Dan dresses, designer clothes were wearing
a Gap T shirt that were wearing this from the
Gap and that campaign. We talked about it, saying, let's
show people, I mean, this takes time to think it through.
(58:39):
Cool people wearing Gap clothes T shirts classics on well known,
very hit people and they were free that and my
teen members, Maggie and I think Jeff. There were a
bunch of people there, but you know all these things
(59:02):
that came. Maggie came up to me one day. Jim
also was there, and she should said, what do you
think of these pictures? It's called black and white campaign?
I looked by Jones and this one. Louis armsbilled that
one and that one. I said, it's effing unbelieving. It
(59:26):
takes two or more, but you know, I might inspire.
She and her team broke and the campaigns there at
Gap at Old Nady, Richard Chrisman did Old Nandy. Old
Lady now is ten or eleven billion dollars of gaps
(59:47):
business and we started it on a win because Stayton Hudson,
the target was opening up a competitor to Gap, and
it was an article in the Times Curious tactive. So
I flew them all in America. I looked at their
version of Gap at cheaper prices. Two minutes I was
(01:00:09):
in store. I let feeling, wow, they're not going to
touch us. But I also said they were a company
that does a lot of warranket research. My market research
hours is yes, someone in the street as someone in store.
Wrong story short, very I gained I got back to
(01:00:31):
San Francisco, gave ten people in that demography two hundred
dollars each. I assigned them a discount shop and a category.
So go to Walmart and buy these shirts. Go here.
And a week later they came back. I was so
happy to hear what they said. They want nice merchand bikes.
(01:00:53):
They don't care if the prices are eight ninety seven Walmart.
You stillways ending non prices. They don't want sale, they
want fair every day prices cling stores, and they like that.
After that meeting, I said to myself, Besidelude, I said,
we're doing this company. And we had Jeff started in Jenny,
(01:01:17):
my old partners who ran the other businesses there, and
we worked on it and this is kind of an
interesting corporate story. Couldn't come up with Nate. And we
were ready to launch a month or two. And in Paris,
shopping shops or whatever, I'm on my way to the airport.
(01:01:39):
I look out the window. Let me get Thank god,
I'm in the back seat on the left roussa, Germaine.
I see a neon light on a bar old Navy.
I said, that's the name that what happens in bureaucracies
(01:02:00):
registered in New York. It wasn't taken Old Maybe. Then
the board didn't like the name dot dot da. We
hired two naming companies, consultants, whatever, and they came up
with horrible names. In today's dollars, is probably four million
dollars of cost. And the first store was called Gap
(01:02:23):
Old Maybe, and it's like putting pepsine and hope here. Anyway,
long story short. The second store we called Old Navy,
and I loved that name. May Well nineteen thirty seven.
Someone showed me the sign. And that's why when I
say how much of what we all do is inside
(01:02:44):
us or inside a partner you work with, we have confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
So Mickey, you know we believe or that we've been
out for an hour. I can't believe. This feels like
twenty minutes. But here's the question, so I know you're
a creature of habit. Paul. This guy goes to soul
cycle every day. He's in great shape, I mean really
great shape, and he never never misses. But what do
you worry about now at this stage of life. It
can't be money. You got all the money.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I don't think he's a worrier. I don't think Mike
he's a warrior.
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Oh no, you don't know him.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Is he way?
Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
Way? Way?
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
You don't know him. You don't know him.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I don't believe in worrying.
Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Well, if you don't believe in it, give me the best, Senoran.
Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
I wish you'll help me on that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
That's a tough one, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
All right? Well what are you worry.
Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
What keep you up? What makes you worry?
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I worry about well success. I worry about getting Alex
mill on the map and delivering for the next generation
a great comedy. And that's what I worry about. You know.
I don't have to worry about the things everyone else. Look,
(01:03:58):
I've been very lucky my life in that regard. But
I I'm you know something I got to tell you for.
It's the saying worries I've had for all these decades. Okay,
every day it's a worry.
Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Isn't it. Tell me if this isn't the truth. I'm
sure that this is. But tell me if you don't
think it is. You love to hire people who worry,
You want worriers?
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
All right, Well, it's you know, I love to hire
people who who aren't self important, who have a history
of working hard. I like to bolly with them on
an interview, because when you're volleying, you meet someone in
these unpreshing virns, you learn very quickly what they're like.
(01:04:46):
I like people who walk fast. I do I watch
them come down the hallway now, I like. I always
ask one of the big companies my assistance, I said,
what do you think of the handy because they're shoosing
and I hadn't always had offices or whatever. And I
listened to them, because what do you think? Look, interviewing
(01:05:10):
and all that is a matter of acting. Get the
resume together, figure out what the person is going to
ask you or me. And I always asked this to
on part time jobs. I always say, like someone worked
in Starbucks. I said, if you were the boss of
that store, what would you do differently? And he said
(01:05:35):
to me, he thought it was all good. This is
ten fifteen. I said, what about these counters that like
a disgusting would want to stop on them? But I
always asked, if they go to high school college, tell
me what you would do if you were the head
of the college the high school. And I asked people
on the woman who was a junior in high school Westchester,
(01:05:59):
and I heard the name, I said, who is the
name of the who was the high school named after?
No idea, you go to a high school, you want
to know whoever it is. This it's conversation. You know,
both of you pick it up and or your rehearse
and I resumes tell me so much because you know that,
(01:06:23):
oh you're doing this volunteer work to impress us. Yeah,
mostly can the ones who admit that I love I
did it because you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Another thing you have in common with Paul though, because
you're always talking about team, Well, it's not me. It
was the team. No, I didn't do that, it was
the team. I've been watching Paul's concerts since the nineteen seventies.
He's never done one show when he didn't introduce every
member of the band or the orchestra that he's working with,
and he gives them credit because that's that's And you're
(01:06:56):
the same way, Mickey. You've always been a guy to
share the credit with you people.
Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Well success as many fathers as we know.
Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
That's right. Look, you know, if I called my biggest
compliment is I'm a mensh and I'm hanging the shock now.
Trans you know, that's what people like today. This is
so many people so important.
Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Well, you just identified yourself because that's who you are,
and we and we love you for doing this. This
is for you to take the time of out of
your day to do this with us where it's fun
to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
You know, I thought maybe Paul would teach me how
to sing, because I always actual worse voice in the world.
But it didn't.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Next time, well, Nikky, I'll on that note, on that note,
and I'm going to drop a name. I did some
work for Warren Buffett and it evolved into exactly what
you said. And I have him recorded singing by way.
Speaker 5 (01:07:54):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I took him in a studio and he plays it
every day in his office.
Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
So we're going to put the lean on you on
our next one because we've had different guests who have sung.
Oh my god, anybody can sing today, Mickey, and failing that,
you let me know when your birthday is or a
fiem in town.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Okay, you got it, and I'll.
Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Put something together for you and I to sing.
Speaker 6 (01:08:20):
How's that?
Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Paul and Skip love you guys. This suit's fun. Let's
go on the road, take care of Thanks Again by
Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Our Way with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtogg, with supervising producer
and editor Marcy Depina.
Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
It was engineered by Todd Carlin and Graham Gibson, mixed
and mastered by a wonderful Mary Dude.
Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave
us a review.
Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
For more podcast ass on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Our Way with yours truly Paul Anka and my buddy
Skip Bronson, is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, folks, this
is Paul Anka.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And my name is Skip Bronson. We've been friends for
decades and we've decided to let you in on our
late night phone calls by starting a new podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And welcome to Our Way. We'd like you to meet
some real good friends of ours.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
There, leaders in entertainment and sports, innovators in business and technology,
and even as sitting president or two. Join us as
we ask the questions they've not been asked before, tell
it like it is, and even sing a song or two.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
This is our podcast and we'll be doing it our way.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I think clothes have to be I call them normalies.
I look at the way people dressed and forgetting my
own style. The chain's ad vintage. I've worn the same
style shooting in million years. But I think to me,
important things have lasting for their class suit, but they
(01:13):
don't go out of style. You don't have to take
a mortgage out to buy.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Oh hey, Paul, what are you eating? I can tell
you're eating something. Yeah, we'll be getting my voice like yours.
I just had a cough drop, but he still can't
match up with your tones.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
But I'm I'm working on it.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
We have a bad we need a bad sore throat. No, no,
not at all. I feel great. I feel great, But
I was just couldn't Aaron brought one by and he
couldn't couldn't let a cough drop go by. So we've
got my friend Mickey Drexel one that's gonna be great.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
You're gonna you're gonna love it.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
He is, let me say this, He's an open book.
He loves to tell his stories and he's got great
you know, as we've learned, and Jordan, our producer, has
always pointed out, you know, we need people with good stories,
but who are also good storytellers, and with Mickey Drexler,
we have both.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
And he's the.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Reason why he's one of the most desired guests on CNBC.
He's got a great point of view on the world
and when he's done in fashion, and you know, he
was one of the original board members of the of Apple,
involved in the development of all those fabulous stories.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
And Taylor Gap was a very successful guy.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
J Crew, you know, which he turned around and made great.
Now he's got his own company with his son Alex
called Alex mill and that's his new passion.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
He loves to work. This is the guy.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
He's like you, and I would like to say, like me,
never going to retire. He's just going to keep working.
He loves to work. He loves the process of creating.
And I'm sure he's going to talk to you about
you know, the creative you know, eight of you, because
he's got that as well.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
I look forward to it. I'm a big fashioned guy.
They're creative people and I've always had an eye for
that and I'm looking for I've heard a lot about him,
read a lot about him. It should be very cool.
I'm glad the Olympics are over. Actually I get some sleep,
but what an incredible event every night with those kids.
You got to take your hat off. They're unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I did some selective viewing. You know, I'm a big
you know.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Oh yeah, you have to cherry picket.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, I'm a golf fan, so I have to tell
you that golf was unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Scottie Scheffler, the number one player in the.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
World, shot a sixty two ten under par on the
last round to win the gold medal on a golf course.
It's very, very difficult. You don't shoot sixty two on
that golf course. He you know, he overtook the the
you know, the leaders and won the tournament, and that
to me was really fun and exciting. It's for no money.
You know, these guys don't get paid anything. Well, don't
(03:56):
keet me started on that. You're not much money's being
made by the investors.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Billions billions.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
When you said the investors, what do you mean.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
Investors, Well, everybody that's invested or it's behind all of
these events. They're making a fortune or not paying these
athletes anything. They make a fortune.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
You didn't know that.
Speaker 6 (04:16):
Oh yeah, they make a fortune villions. Let alone, what
the town wherever it's held. It's such a money machine.
And these poor athletes don't get a damn set.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
And the broadcasting rights.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
You know, it's oh, it's huge, huge. I mean, you'll
see the day when you look at me and say, wow,
these athletes will step up somehow and they'll get their
fair share of what I think they deserve.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Frankly, it's going to be great when they have the
Olympics in Los Angeles in twenty twenty eight because part
of the challenge for the Olympics being you know, in
another part of the world you already know, you know,
because you can't help it today with with you know,
being bombarded with media and getting your alerts on your
phone alread you know who won the gold medal in swimming,
(05:02):
you know who won the gold medal in gymnastics because
you get an alert on your phone. The beauty of
it here, it'll be in real time for us that
you know, living out here, so that'll I think it
makes it even more compelling.
Speaker 6 (05:15):
Yeah, for sure. But the events are fantastic. I didn't
like some of the opening, which I thought was a
little bizarre, but once they got into it, got my
admiration to those kids. Kids says wonderful. Young people are
so dedicated. It's unbelievable, really unbelievable stuff. Yeah, but I'm
looking forward to to Mickey because I don't think we've
(05:37):
quite had anyone on that's had that kind of success story.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
He's very unique, and you know, he's also been an
angel round investor in a number of companies and you know,
you got in on the ground floor and they want
him not just for the money, but also for his
own expertise in in brand building.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
He's a brand building so it'd be fun to talk
to him about that.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
And ask him where he thinks the puck is headed.
So I'll talk to you. Let's see, it's probably not
going to talk to you until later tonight.
Speaker 6 (06:11):
Well, i'll talk to you as usually before you go
to bed.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Yeah, all right, pliny, I love you, alt.
Speaker 6 (06:16):
Sleep, love you back by Ccho's.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Oh, mickey, there's my guy.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
What's up?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Guys?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I guess the first question was have you and I
ever met?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But we probably a genetically acted, so you're probably right.
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I grew up. I was New Yorker. I came down
from Canada at fifteen, worked at Brooklyn Paramount. We're about
the same age. How old are you?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Mixed?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, I'll be eighty in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well I just turned eighty three a week ago.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You're a fucking amazing Skip this.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I don't usually hang out with friends who my age,
but Skip, it's an exception.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
So the rule I said, I said, for me to
interview you would be like me interviewing myself, because I
know there's nothing that you don't know about me, and
there's nothing that I don't know about you.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That's true, But I think it'll be fun for people
who don't know you to hear hear about you.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, you know, Skip, it's like Brooklyn Bronx Jeans west
Ard three Wall, from the same ghetto. Now, where did
you live when you moved to New York.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Ball I lived in Tenafly, New Jersey. Then I lived
in New York City on fifty seventh and sixth seventh,
that building on the corner.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So he was from the man of born, Skip, fancy hardly.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
He was not from the manor born anymore than you
or I were.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Then I was living in Washington, d C. Till I
became became of age.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Mickey. You know the Johnny Cash song I've Been Everywhere, No, No,
there's a great song where he lists all the cities
and that Paul. Paul's been everywhere, He's lived everywhere, He's
done everything, He's checked every box.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Well, he's he's been around. Yeah, Paul, what's your favorite
song done in your whole life? I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, I'm somewhat humbled by that because we're supposed to
be interviewing you. But I'll very quickly take it away
from me and tell you my favorite song is anything
that's good?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Okay, But see you have a lot of songs then,
but there's no emotional favorite.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Well, my emotional favorite of mine? Yes, yours okay, Sammy
Davis Junior. I wrote a song for him called I'm
Not Anyone my favorite my way of course for Sinatra
and a song called do I Love You? Don't you
know by Now, which I wrote when my wife was
having our fifth child. Those are my favorites.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Wow, yeah, Well Sinatra was the king always.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
He will always be the king. He will always be
the king, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, yeah, he sure will be.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I want to know about you because Skip has obviously
ran it all down. But your input with the Gap
and you inherited that and you went to work at Gap, right,
how did you figure out what direction to go with
the Gap?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
You know? It's interesting and it's probably true in your world,
in the real estate world, it's all about a vision
of what the future will look like embedded in your brain,
and it's interesting. Twelve years in department Steare is. The
first company I actually ran was Anne Taylor. That was
(09:34):
my first THEO job. But Antello was a good training ground.
It was very successful GAP. I had a picture of it,
and what I thought is there was no place in
America because I grew up in the bronx dollars. You
know everything you like Ralph Laurren, who I've always had
(09:55):
great respect for. His clothes were unaffordable in my mind,
and I still live in bronze doyles. You skip, but
I look at prices and all that. But I thought
what American needs was a place to shop where you know,
it's personal to a degree, but where you could buy
(10:17):
nice clothes, lots of color. Classic I called the uniforms
in America in the sense it sounds like uniforms boring,
like this Navy T shirt gray every day in my life.
And so I had a list before I got the
GAP at you of the startup that would in fact
(10:39):
be GAP. I didn't know I was going to work there,
but it was your startup. But it's fishing, it's always
seeing around corners. It's skating to whereas Gretzky said, to
where the puck is going. And that's what I do.
And you can't help it. You can't control the mind
(10:59):
about thinking every day and now you write songs. But
I assume it's saying I got a song in my head,
and so that's selling the Gap. I had a vision.
It was a nightmare the first few years to implement
the vision. Moved from you know, Manhattan to death Cisco
worked in an office park of San Bruno. But you know,
(11:23):
I was a young person and I was trying to
figure out where to go after working for the big
department stores where I never wanted to be a boss there.
So it's always a picture in my brain. J Crewe
Gap Old Navy, Uh Mayde, Well, you know Old Navy
started just in the brain and then named after bar
(11:45):
in Paris. Maybe well, I purchased the name. I'm fast forwarding,
but I purchased the name after I left GAP and
kept it. And that I joined Jay Crew and what
we when public? I said, now it's time to do
made work. And you feel it in your head. I
(12:06):
think it's the same in any creating world. You have
a no shame, I say, if you know, you know,
most people don't. In my opinion. My world anyway, business
and songwriting, which my wife as in. So I just
finished a documentary on Diane Warrant. I'ven't even heard any
(12:28):
far Peggy was a producer with others amazing. You must know, well,
very very well.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Great great songwriter.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, great songwriter. But I always say to people you're
born with things or you're not born with it. And
they say, well, how do I become an entrepreneur? There's
entrepreneurial classes and you're never going to learn that classroom
or how to write a song or taste or style.
So a lot of it is very inter it's down.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I've always said it gets down to the people that
say they're going to do something and don't and those
that say they're going to do something and do big
differential through life. I've noticed that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Well I couldn't agree more. But the people who are
going to do something need to have the built well
in my world, in your world, I look at them
as two totally creative and in real estate that exists.
I was just a guy from Graduate Hotels looking for
a location whatever. But it gets down to those who
(13:35):
want to do it, and we'll get knocked down. I've
been knocked down my whole career. You get knocked down,
you get back up. And also, you're not a spoiled brat.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Remember where you came from.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You know what, Mickey, You know, you and I know
each other so well. We speak on the phone, what
three or four times a week, just checking in, and
it's painful because you and I we grew up, we
each had a dysfunctional parent. But just to help people
who don't know you, and just to go back for
a minute at the very beginning, you know you always
(14:10):
we kid each other. My father was a window trimm
or your father sold buttons. You know, But tell Paul
and the other people are listening how it all started.
Where you grow up, the good the bad, you had
it both both ways, before we segue into you know,
your rather incredible career.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, well you know I love that question. Skip When
I interview people now, I've learned over the many years
of running companies, I don't care where they go to college.
I don't care what the board scores are, I don't
care what their graines are. I interview them based on
who they are, and I actually prefer less privileged Ian
(14:51):
then the more privilege. I've just had lunch today with
someone who said, you know, you work hard. Son worksismus
in summer. He hates it, but he does it. And
I said, those are the kinds of people I identified it.
But I grew up in the Bronx. When growing up
(15:11):
in the Bronx, it was I didn't know what I had,
but didn't that because I lived in a ghetto. I
lived in a ground floor apartment in apart in one
bedroom with mom and dad. My father, oh ye is
all I could say. I wouldn't have chosen him if
I had any choice. On the other hand, in hindsight,
(15:34):
he created a lot of my ambition, a lot of
hard work and wanted to escape. And I didn't want
to be like him. Although Skip's father has the greatest
quotes in the world, I have to say that I
don't know pull those all those thoughts. But I grew
up in the Bronx. I went to elementary school. My
(15:56):
mother was very ill and depressed because she had breast
cancer early in her life. And my father was I
don't know. He had no emotion, he had no connection.
He was just in his own little world. And I
guess they called that on the spectrum today. He was
a big shot in his own made He was you know,
(16:18):
the button he bought buttons from manufactory, worked in the
shipping room. But he was a big shot and his
fansins reacted that way compared to the rest of my
family in the ghetto down the street. But he was
not encouraging. He was not happy with me and what
(16:41):
I did. He never really appreciated what I did. But
that's what are under the bridge, and I do thank
him for being who he was, which created a huge
tribe of escape. I lived in my fantasies. I didn't
like being at home. I used to hang out at
my ands down the street. But you know, you deal
(17:03):
with it because you don't realize when you're growing up
how tough it is or how tough it was. And
our kids, you know, they all grew up in a
different way. I see that. But I worked my ass
and my father in not in a nice way, always
made me work, delivered the New York Times and in
(17:25):
high school in towel sorting in the basement. But I
always worked in the garment business. I delivered peace goodns.
I you know, got coffee in the morning. I saw
Wilkinson's sort blades, which were hard to get then, like
come street, but I never thought twice about it, other
than as they got older, I saw the world is
(17:49):
very different than the world I know, and I was
starting to say, oh my god, look at this and
look at that. You know, my mom worked as a
secretary for all the years doing for a guy who
ran the YMHA in the South Bronx. I went to
the YMHA camp with sessions in the summer. She was there,
(18:14):
but I never thought, wow, missions whatever. So I always
lived in my dreams and I never thought, you know,
I just kept just sing in front of me in
a way, and nothing with all I lived through, I
still got up and I thought. I went to Bronze science.
I like it. Everyone was intimidated me by their grades,
(18:39):
and I finally realized, too many us later, there's school smart,
there's life smart, and there's hard work and discipline and
ethic work ethic, but you gotta also use your brain.
So my childhood was not enjoyable. My mom died when
(19:01):
I was sixteen years old, and my father, you know,
skip my seventh family. I can't even talk about this here.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
If I ever told the pall of the stories, you know,
and down always laughed. But it was very difficult, and
I lived in an environment that I had to escape.
I went to City College. I escaped to Buffalo because
it was important for me to get out and away
from him and the family. And so I went to Buffalo.
(19:35):
I was very happy, could have been anywhere, you know.
But and then I went to work. After I worked
in a career and I started the department store business.
I decided after a few years, I wasn't meeting people
who inspired me. And this is all in hindsight. You know,
you do something and then you realize, you know that
(19:58):
this is no I had no mentors. Everyone has a
mentor today, all these in our generation. I'm stone mentor.
And you know, there was never anyone who was like
a role model. We just in our it's again generational
right now, every young person. I spend a lot of
(20:19):
time with young people, telling them the truth about what
life is like. But a lot of them I can't
blame them for growing up or even our own kits
and growing up the way they'd grown up. You grew
up in the borough of West Hardford, balls and did
you say?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
But making not to interrupt you, but in looking at
you know how amazing you faced every challenge. Every guy
that I've respected in business and that I've met, and
I've been fortunate enough to meet them on all levels.
They were all avid readers. Are you and were you
self taught and a reader?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Never?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Never?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, there's a Yiddish term called spilkus as in.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
My hands spocus.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You had spocus, Yeah, I had spilcus. I was an
avid imagination, lived in my fantasies and my dreams and it. No,
I didn't read avidly, although I want to be able
to do it even today. I can't like sit down
and read book, but that's me. No, I wasn't an
(21:25):
avid reader and I wasn't an avid student. I never
used anything I've learned in school. I saw some'se tryangs, parallelograms,
chemistry codes. A lot of that was memorization. And if
you're good at memory, you didn't get good grades too.
I wasn't. I didn't pay attention. But no, I didn't
(21:47):
read much. I still don't, unfortunately, because.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I still think you're an amazing success story.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Well, uh, thank you, Paul, But you want to know
I think every day I still climb them that I
try to prove myself and I try to do better
than I did yesterday. And I never forget who I
was and I still am.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Then, So, Mickey, are you close to putting the flag
in the mountain. Do you see that?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
No, No, because uh, you know, you keep climbing the mountain. No,
and Alex Mill Frankly, at this stage in my life,
I'm more ambitious here for it to be successful because
I have to leave a company to the people that
are going to run it that's economic, viable, thasible and
(22:40):
has a future. And we're building and I'm working. Frankly,
I think better than I've worked. It's kind of weird,
but my mind is I feel more creative, but more
whatever because I'm not dealing with investors. I'm not dealing chairman.
(23:01):
I'm dealing with myself and the teen and we don't
have any investors. So it's kind of a dream that
I work for the team. Those are my bosses.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
When you were starting out, though, you never could have
imagined that you'd be known as the merchant, prints, that
you'd have a reputation that you created, that you do
the things that you did. But did you dream about
being rich? Did you ever think I want to do
this because I want to be rich. I want a Cadillac,
I want to have a beach house or did you
never even go there?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
You know, I never went there because I didn't know
what being rich was like. With my father and his
generation Cadillac convertible boom. You were rich when I went
to sleep away camp in the wherever I went after
the Lafos, you know, the Cadillacs set visited rich Jeff
(23:53):
Reave Meal to get a yellow Cadillac. Woud father worked
for an air condition whatever carrier or whatever. Wow, I
never thought about it, even in hindsight. Now it's really interesting.
I sent to Peggy the other day. I said, you know,
I look back at our life and I never kind
(24:15):
of imagined it would. I mean, I look back, I'm
very impressed with whoever he was and what he did.
But I still every day, what do you know, we
skip by every day. I'm trying to do better. I'm
very difficult of myself. I'm very self critical person of me,
(24:35):
and as Skip knows, we have a lot of people
we are critical of. But we can't go here on that.
You know, I'm just singing to the singing to the well.
You know, I'm big shots. I rememberable when I's a
young person in my twenties. You know, at the department stores,
(24:57):
they were all big shots the bosses, and I thought
they're big shots, and I learned over time they're not
such big shots. Titles don't mean that you are the
most successful person in the world. I like people like today,
I had lunch with a friend Dish I'm known her
(25:17):
bit and the waitress, Diana, was from Peru and that's
my friend at Saint Ambrose across the street. She and Marco,
the manager. Marco's smart for what they do. Marco, she's
a funny story. They hadn't The chefs on chef sell
(25:38):
not chef. There's com salad on the menu. So I
got it about a month ago. I quote him now
it was hardly need bacon bits, So I said, Marco,
there's no baking bits hard and you can't even see it.
And the cop sell. He comes out of the kitchen
with a cup of bacon bits. I said, thank you.
He goes, this is not just an ingredient. It's me
(26:02):
and great to hear. I U said all the time.
That just says it all. But those are the people
that I like. I like nice people, and I like
people who have a leg down.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The title thing is interesting because when I started off
my first legitimate job selling insurance working and hard for
an insurance company. You know, the salesman, the guy that
ran the general agency made more money than the president
of the company. So speaking of titles, you know, the
title was one thing that you know, the president of
(26:45):
the company got to walk around as the president of
the travelers insurance company. But in terms of just sheer dollars,
the guy that was the head of sales made more money.
Now today, of course, and Mickey gets offended by this, Paul,
I have to tell you up front. You know, he
looks at what some of these executives make the CEO
pay and it infuriates him, just finds it's distasteful.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It is distasteful.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, it is distasteful. It's not based on anything. But look,
I don't want to go there, but I guess I'll
go there. I think you know, CEOs today and probably
in the old days, you know, they were big machers
watching spec and you know, I realized that if you
(27:31):
look play the part, well, not certainly, not everyone, but
if you're a safe bet for the board of directors,
if they don't have a risk of picking the wrong person,
it's not uncommon. And then you look at the results
and they're making twenty twenty five. We got the private
(27:53):
jet they this day, and that do something for the shareholders.
I've always worked number one on the people I've worked
with and the shareholders without a doubt. No, I was
in that level of crazy numbers, but on stock price
beyond paid for it in terms of its growth. And
(28:14):
Steve Jobs sixteen years as his director member and his friend.
That guy never one day would come in and think, oh,
I'm Steve Jobs. Well, I said, you're Steve Jobs. But
he was just someone who cared about building a business. Yeah,
(28:36):
we all have about quirks, but I the best in
the world, and he wasn't there to have a nego
at all.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Speaking of a quirk, though, You've got to do this.
I have to tell Paul the story about Christmas time
when the board members at Apple could get like, you know,
a laptop, or they could get an iPhone or whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
You told me this story, right, I didn't remember it.
But when Steve called, Yeah, how I didn't you know
that story?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
You told it to me.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Well, he has a better memory. I guess.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
You got free things, you know, to say what Steve
wasn't happy I'm using it and I, uh, what are
those other things called? Before the I uh, the you
know what I mean, the own black bear, right. I
used to have that at the border use anyway you
(29:34):
could pick free things free f r E. I didn't
even how to work your computer. And Steve skip reminded
calls me and say I ordered too many free things,
and I was kind of embarrassed. I don't know, I
(29:55):
didn't know how many to order. Maybe it was fourth things.
But he's telling me, I'm being a little indulgent.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
No matter what.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
He did.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Love to guy Paul, the guys on his board of directors,
the company is a rocket ship. He's concerned that maybe
Mickey asked for one too manything.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
He's got his eye on the ball. He's focused, right, Hey, Mickey,
going back to vision, which I think is imperative in
business today. The whole COVID experience kind of separated the
men from the boys. Everybody got hit pretty badly. And
then the evolution out of it into trying to get
on track again. How has it changed in your business?
(30:37):
So I know some of the players in the industry
to what's happened to the malls, the online all of that.
Where is it landing and where's it going?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Mickey, Well, Paul, it's a good question, surely personal because
I you know, I'm not the smartest guy, and all
I can do is estimate where it's going. And I
think what it did shift the world up there the
hell out of all of us. But I think you
(31:07):
know it's over, it's gone. I think what's happened in retail,
independent of the pandemic is that the world and I
don't know if it's true creating song business, the world
of creativity, of product being number one, style, taste, quality
(31:30):
has taken a step down. I don't think that was
pandemic centric. I think that you have to recognize in
any business that creativity grows businesses and it's a necessary
ingredient to keep moving forward. Maybe not I don't know,
(31:53):
whatever ingot business or whatever, banking business, but you know
it's still been necessary. And you just look at what
Jamie Dimond has done. But I think it allowed people
to kind of hide behind the pandemic. Well, I think
again personally, it also seemed to have a portal little
(32:17):
water on creativity or whatever. But I think that's been
going this way slowly. But surely, why do I say
that because investors. We had private ality investors, my friends
whatever at Jay Crew, and they are they won't want
(32:41):
to make money. I don't blame them. If I invest
I want to make money too. But when you're a
director of a company, people are number one people who
work in that company number one, and earnings are good
long term. There's no such thing as as part of
around in my opinion that thanks two years get the
(33:03):
stock price up, how will it stay up? But in
all the years, no offense. And these are my friends too,
people on boards, very few with them, very few had
a sense of the products we were selling. If you
look at a schmatta, you know, people say, well, how
(33:25):
do you know it's going to be good? And not
I a would say there's something in my stomach to
and my belly that kind of buzzes. It's that's what happens.
But in the industry today, with all the data, this
data does not know how to design a good best
seller all right, and whatever the other word is that
(33:49):
tells you how many to buy algorithms. You know, I
did algorithms when I was twenty three, or it's old
and a new buyer it blooming does I just didn't
call it that. I called it looking around, what's the
sense in the island and all that. But when you
lose that, you can mention any industry.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Look.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I think the cars around America worldwide, of like, I
don't know who designs them anymore. There are certain standouts,
but they all have the same swoop in the back
like it's all I always call it the swoop. I
get a kick out of it. Looks like they're designed
in the same design room. And Steve again not to
(34:31):
you know, he's a good name drop, but I always
admired him. He was designed with him and Johnny Eye.
The screwings had to be horson the engine, that this,
whatever it was, it had to be esthetically right. And
he was an I call him great worching in terms
of what he did with the shops. Did everything came
(34:53):
the best retail in the world. But I think right
now and as a skip nose, I connetch a lot.
I can find things. Every day I go to work,
I want to know what could be better and the
team sometimes what is he talking about? I went to
a shop today to check it out, and I knew
(35:15):
the shop well and I saw something there. I said,
you know, we walked away. I don't want to say
we walked away from a fab Why because competitor ish
uses it and I said, let's bring it back. Why
who cares if a lesser competitor hasn't will make it
(35:35):
the ingredient this company? And you know, it's just I
think the world's lost. I don't know how you feel,
young Paul and Skip, you knew a lot of people,
and Skip was in the hotel business when there were
great things being created, you know, and I don't know
where that is to except what there's always going to be.
(35:59):
You know, the out riders do what they do.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Mickey, back to your saying design and the vision. You know,
I spend a lot of time in Asia, but going
there for sixty years. I just got back a few
months ago. And the evolution over there, those department stores,
their taste for fashion. How has that affected your business
or the fashion business? When I see there's so much
(36:25):
focus on that they're all very small and you see
smaller design, clothing, et cetera, et cetera. What portion and
where does that take you in terms of where Asia
fits into your scheme of things were never used to.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Well, you know, I don't go to Asian much anymore.
I think in the past, Tokyo and they had by
far the best stops in the world creatively and product wise.
I understand Korea. Now soul career is the next place
be and it's taking over. I live in my days.
(37:02):
I can paying attention detail I go into a shop.
For me, it's not about trends as much as it's
about the trend that I think is always on trend,
which is clothes that don't go out of style. This
(37:23):
shirt here, for example, ten years old, I were the
same body last twenty years bottomed down blue and white,
stripe white. I think clothes to them have lost their focus.
Now I might create a lot of people say, oh,
but my senses. I only buy things personally. And even
(37:45):
as a kid, I had a uniform. I didn't know
I was in grade school. I had to buckle back gin.
I never thought differently except that I couldn't afford and
I didn't think about this to buy new clothesal time,
except because I was growing. I think I get inspiration
(38:06):
wherever I go. And I said to the team today,
I said, let's go visit the shops. Even in New
York city in Manhattan, I went to two shops this morning.
I came back with those two things and the third
shop that five women. There was a very upscale fashion
and company, very cool, and I mentioned, where is the
(38:30):
alex Mill. We sell them a shell And they said,
why are you asking? And I said, well I worked there,
and they said, we love alex Mill. Now I gave
them it was very terrific, cool company. You know when
the signor world and I gave the meet sure of
(38:51):
VIP card and I said, tell your friends. But I
think creative people. I don't know where you get the
song in ratio. I'm always amazing people who write songs.
I can't imagine worse. So I don't you know. I
don't know, but I find.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Well, you learn, you learn your craft and it's very spiritual.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I practice my craft for forty five years. That's right,
your craft and and to me and it's not like,
oh my god, and I did it. Some people say
why did white work? To me, it's what I do.
And I think if in an igic way, I feel
(39:32):
I do it better now than I ust. So you
believe it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
You believe in micromanaging, Oh well, I beyond and I'll
tell you what I think.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Micromanagings. It's a term that doesn't get respect. You know.
It's like what in danger you got all respect? You
know what it is. And I say this, I come
in and I say anything a customer thieves or fields
and it's not right. Make it better, you know. It's
(40:04):
it's simple. And I see my nusha. I see big pictures.
But I am trained being a customer all my life.
And I know right away from a good vibe when
you get greeted in the restaurant. You know, big line restaurants.
I couldn't kill us who goes there because there's a line.
(40:26):
I feel it. So anyway, that's it in micromanaging. I
if it's I look, I said, I was at a
meeting with a bunch of CEOs and my friend said,
yeahe it runs whatever the vision. And he said, please
come and sit down and just spend some time with me.
(40:49):
Terrific guy Jeff Snfeld, who you might know, he's always
on CNBC. So this is about six or seven years ago.
I sat in and I don't like to go to
I don't have patience to send meetings. But anyway I
sat there must have been at one hundred CEOs, and
I'm like, I just went in twenty minutes. It's the
(41:10):
CEO of a car was there and they showed a
car think screen and Jeff said, Mickey, what do you
think of that car? And it was a classic car
like I liked. It was design, had integrity, et cetera,
et cetera. But I said, I said this, I said,
(41:32):
but I would never buy that car. And they said why.
I said, crustal wheels ruined the car. All I see
is ugly wheels, and and that to me is, you know,
part of what the world's like. I was invited by
the CEO to go to Detroit and they invited you
(41:56):
to go to the design room. Now the CEO, I like,
and I still do, didn't go with me to the
design room. I mean, you know, even as an inviting guests,
obviously he was involved in designing his product. So I
came back. He said, what do you think. I said, Well,
(42:17):
here was seven people designing a car, and one of
them did the interior, the other did grill, the other
pull street. It was like putting together like you know,
I guess when Picassa painted it was his point of view,
and you know, I think that's what goes on creativity. Look,
(42:41):
I might oversee to me, creativity opened this curiosity. I'm
a detective.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Very important, very important, mutually important.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I am a detective.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I just wrote that down because I just literally wrote
a note to myself about curiosity. See one of the
things that was fascinating Paul. I went to visit Mickey
back when he was running Jay Crew, and he had
this gigantic building with all these people and it. He
had a bicycle and he actually used to ride around,
go from place to place within the company to pop
in on people, you know, and petrify everybody. But you know,
(43:18):
one day I was sitting in his office and somebody
came in. You talk about how the zeitgeist. Somebody mentioned
to Mickey the lavender was going to be a really
big color. Mickey had this PA system in the building,
and Micky would get on the public address system and
go lavender, bring me lavender, And people would start walking
into the office scarves. Somebody had scarves, somebody had skirts.
(43:41):
You know, he was looking.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
At I'll give you my lavender story way off point,
but I never heard anymore. I moved to Italy in
the sixties, because the Beatles hit town and I'd been
an international creature, and I said, you know what, Italy
is the place. So I started a company with RCAA
Victor and I'm recording. I'm doing an Italian But I
(44:04):
wanted to meet Gina. Sophia Lauren. She was the hot thing.
Remember you remember the film where she was bare breasted
in the sixties and no one ever seen an actress
like that, And ever since I saw it, I said,
I gotta meet this woman. Anyway, fade out, fade in.
I'm there at noon and back then, Perry Como and
(44:25):
Crosby and all those guys. They started everybody off with
those cardigan sweaters, all colors, buttoned up to here, and
I bought a I must have bought a dozen, one
of which was lavender. So I'm getting ready at the
hotel and I'm going into the studio and I put
on my lavender sweater to impress Sophia Lauren. And I'm
(44:46):
standing there by a mic and I'm counting the seconds
and over the loud speaker in the studio, Miss Lauren
is coming into the building. She'll be in a minute.
I'm standing and I'm waiting and Sophia Lauren walks into
the studio and starts coming towards me. Well, you know,
all of us, I don't care how much money we
(45:06):
have or our experience in life, you're gonna meet that
one person where you're absolutely no tongue tied. I don't
care who you think you are. She walks up to
me and she goes, oh, oh my god, you're wearing
a lavender purple sweater. It's in my unlucky color. And
she left the fucking studio.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Too funny.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
And I never had to. I couldn't say left unlucky number.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
I'm believing that is too funny for the record. Skip
would never be a lap into color that I okay,
I just wanted whatever, just the correct set the record straight,
right exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
By the way, talk about these various brands, I'm thinking
about what you've done and were you know, like the
companies that you've sort of followed or invested in, and
like what do you look for?
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Well, I'm going to be a very circumspect companies. Well,
I'll tell you about Gap. Don Fishing invented a great company.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It was Levi's the Gap what he and his wife right,
Nicky the wife.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Also at the GAP nineteen people who found and start companies,
and you know a lot of examples, they bring it
to a certain point and then they don't know round
two or three happiness all the time. At Gap, Don
was smart enough to know when he hired me, not
(46:48):
that he knew I would be successful or not that
the company was in trouble, and it was in trouble
going this way. And because he invented there's a lot
of inventions where the founders in a way have to
keep telling you all own examples involved. I can't think
(47:08):
of it. So anyway, you know the thing, I'm not
a great investor in companies because when I invest in businesses,
I always think, well, outdoor voices perfect example, where forget
about it. When I invest in companies, I think about
(47:29):
then in my own vision and imagination. When I got
involved in outdoor Voices, I thought that, wow, this is
a competitor to lenment. But stories not pretty the end
of it. But I was chairman. I was given those story.
(47:51):
So but anyway, you've got to look at the long
term and building a company never ends every single day.
I was a GAP for eighteen years. One day I
was out the next day, Steve Jobs called me at night,
(48:12):
tomorrow's your last day. They wouldn't tell him because and
this is not a secret, it's he called me at
night when they had to tell him. And eighteen years
had to rock the year. But hello, So you know,
you just got to understand what people I and I
(48:33):
integert and sensitively and working for your associates is the
number one ingredient of building a great company. But a
lot of people get very self impressed by look at
the chair on and on this some of that. You know,
That's why I thank my growing up years because I
(48:53):
didn't know anyone who like was a big shot, was
a mentor who really was very nice. So I'll call
the little people, which I want to.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
But you talk about you know, one day, all of
a sudden, you're gone. So Paul and I are big
hockey fans. We love watching hockey. And my friend Joel
Quinnville was the head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks, a
team that hadn't won the Stanley Cup in decades. He
won three Stanley Cups, three and all. Then he had
(49:24):
a bad year and boom he was gone. That was
it had a bad year and he turned around that's
what happens. I mean, you see it all the time
in your business, right, it happens.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
All the time. What had been done from me lately.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
So speaking of things being gone, because Paul touched on
this before, but I just would love for you to
amplify this. When I started my career as a shopping
center developer, and mel Simon and Herb Simon believed in
me and they gave me money to go out and
start some projects, you had to have a three department
store or even a four department store and closed mall.
(50:00):
That was it. If I wanted to get you as
a retailer, in order to get you into that into
my shopping center, it had to have three or four
department stores in an enclosed all environment. And now, of
course that's completely gone. I mean there's no such thing there.
I mean they're a very limited number that still even exists.
But as you look forward with trends, because you know,
(50:23):
we had Derek Blasberg on on one of our podcasts
and he was terrific and talked about quiet luxury and
he talked about the new phases and new concepts. But
from retail, is there any particular thing that you see
evolving that other people maybe don't see, or that the
next step in the retail world.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
Well, you know, it's a good question. I don't, by
the way, have any clue what quiet luxury is. Is
it luxury that doesn't make noise? I don't know what
it is. It's can they say, kind of the screet
maybe everyone one those who's wearing whatever I think clothes
have to be. I call them normalized. I look at
(51:08):
the way people dressed forgetting my own style. The chain's
a vintage. I've worn the same style shoes in rolling years.
But I think, to me, important things have lasting poor.
They're plastic, but they don't go out of style, and
they don't you don't have to take a mortgage out
(51:30):
to buy them. And what people say, I listen, you
know the clothes today, the prices of designer clothes kind
of forget of people's pocketbook, and then they line up
at the stores. They're buying prestige and status all my opinion,
(51:52):
because they have this now. When I was a young
guy in my late twenties, thirties, and then again I
went to Florence, I used to go there, you know,
for Italy. I was a sweater bowl, and I think
I waited online for Gucci buckle loaf from once and
that was a big deal. Now I don't know what
(52:15):
the big deals are and the prices. I know what
things cost, and I know a lot of people are
talking about the price of close, even not designer closed.
We are fair. That's my gain, always has been my paging.
Fair price is good value. And the other thing that's happening,
which is ominous, is if you start to look at
(52:39):
the prices of the sales that's going on, because there's
this thing happening which I hear from a lot of people.
The retailers are buying the goods, they price them at
a higher price. Why because when they go on sale
they can get their normal margin, and you know what
(53:02):
that does to the integering of any business. So I'm
not a big proponent if in fact, people came in
who didn't see you around corners, who had high integrity
and a vision, and again some of them lvah, I mean,
who's more, you know, more successful. On the other hand,
(53:22):
I don't know who we pay three thousand dollars for
crue neck casume sweater, but they do. So I'm not
a big I'm not that optimistic. I always judge every
business by the people at the top, and there's always
in every probably music is it's skiff been real sick.
(53:46):
You look at who's setting the tone, and you'll look
at who's responsible, and then it goes from there.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Correct, you're very informative. That will you say sales? I've
always abused with that because in reality, do they go
in and they say a sale item. They don't just
buy that, They buy three others and it's not a sale.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (54:07):
Well, you're right, Paul is a bit of a fashionista.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Obviously he has to perform. But what we talked about
the fact when we used to go buy these custom
made suits. Now you look in New York if you
went to a lawyer's office, and let's say the nineties
or even two thousand and you went to a meeting
and you didn't have a coat and tie on, I
mean they look at you like there was something wrong
with you.
Speaker 5 (54:39):
One.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Now, did you ever, in your wildest dreams think that
not only would people no longer be wearing neckties, but
they would no longer be wearing suits to work?
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Well, you know, I never kind of felt would say that,
but we did a casual Fridays at the at Wall
Street and stock Market when we were at GAP and
I think people say that we have had a lot
(55:10):
to do with the casualizing of appalling the world, and I,
you know, I think it's a nice thing to think
we had a lot to do with it. But when
we did, I'll never forget that Friday. We created casual
Friday and who thought it would change the world. But
over the years casual clothes. Look at today, it's rare
(55:33):
to see someone with a tie. I'm not saying it's
right or wrong. I think it's much more comfortable the
way we dress without the you know, net's been tight a.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
How about how about in Europe, like in London in Paris.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
You know, I haven't the last few years. I haven't
been there, so I don't have an opinion. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, I've seen it. I you know, I've been going
there quite a bit for years, and you'd be amazed,
Skip Mickey, I stayed at the Ritz for years, and
the complaint in the last few years from the Matre D's,
the restaurants with the influx of a certain different crowd.
I'll leave it at that. They're sitting there in shorts
(56:17):
and running shoes, and because they've got money, they let
them into the bar. They let him into the restaurant.
And it's the most frightening thing to see because I've
known them through the years, the owners, etc. They say,
we don't know what to do about it. Their parents
are here and these kids have all this money and
that's the way they dress. And we get complaints.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Because you'd go to Broadway, you know, back in the day,
and you know people were dressed up to go to
a play. Now you know, we were in New York recently,
went to a show. No one wearing a jacket or tie.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Skip you know how you know how we traveled years ago,
and I started traveling in the fifties, right but right
for so many years. And I'm sure you guys can
identify everyone the travel on an aircraft, shirt, tie, the cats,
the women were depped, they got off the plane looking
(57:08):
like they walked out or wherever. Unilaterally, everybody was dressed
on that aircraft.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
A hundred percent. I was talking about that with a
friend today. Our son, who's sixteed goes with a suit
and tie on an airplane. It's probably the only kid
in the world. But you know the world's change in
that regard, and I don't you know, I don't want
to be from the man born. I'm not, but you know,
(57:34):
to me there's a certain amount of pride and people
you know, the closer what they are, right.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
Nicky, let me ask you. I want to ask them
the evolution into those brilliant gap ads. How'd you come
up with that?
Speaker 3 (57:48):
Who came up with that?
Speaker 1 (57:49):
I assume that was you?
Speaker 3 (57:50):
No, well, I don't you never do anything by your
team and a gap I never forget. The first can
pain was individuals of style and the woman I worked with, Maggie,
I kept saying, it was just you felt that I
sent our closed Gap. Look, they're very good looking clothes,
(58:15):
simple and they go with almost anything. And we were
noticing people who fancied Dan dresses, designer clothes were wearing
a Gap T shirt that were wearing this from the
Gap and that campaign. We talked about it, saying, let's
show people, I mean, this takes time to think it through.
(58:39):
Cool people wearing Gap clothes T shirts classics on well known,
very hit people and they were free that and my
teen members, Maggie and I think Jeff. There were a
bunch of people there, but you know all these things
(59:02):
that came. Maggie came up to me one day. Jim
also was there, and she should said, what do you
think of these pictures? It's called black and white campaign?
I looked by Jones and this one. Louis armsbilled that
one and that one. I said, it's effing unbelieving. It
(59:26):
takes two or more, but you know, I might inspire.
She and her team broke and the campaigns there at
Gap at Old Nady, Richard Chrisman did Old Nandy. Old
Lady now is ten or eleven billion dollars of gaps
(59:47):
business and we started it on a win because Stayton Hudson,
the target was opening up a competitor to Gap, and
it was an article in the Times Curious tactive. So
I flew them all in America. I looked at their
version of Gap at cheaper prices. Two minutes I was
(01:00:09):
in store. I let feeling, wow, they're not going to
touch us. But I also said they were a company
that does a lot of warranket research. My market research
hours is yes, someone in the street as someone in store.
Wrong story short, very I gained I got back to
(01:00:31):
San Francisco, gave ten people in that demography two hundred
dollars each. I assigned them a discount shop and a category.
So go to Walmart and buy these shirts. Go here.
And a week later they came back. I was so
happy to hear what they said. They want nice merchand bikes.
(01:00:53):
They don't care if the prices are eight ninety seven Walmart.
You stillways ending non prices. They don't want sale, they
want fair every day prices cling stores, and they like that.
After that meeting, I said to myself, Besidelude, I said,
we're doing this company. And we had Jeff started in Jenny,
(01:01:17):
my old partners who ran the other businesses there, and
we worked on it and this is kind of an
interesting corporate story. Couldn't come up with Nate. And we
were ready to launch a month or two. And in Paris,
shopping shops or whatever, I'm on my way to the airport.
(01:01:39):
I look out the window. Let me get Thank god,
I'm in the back seat on the left roussa, Germaine.
I see a neon light on a bar old Navy.
I said, that's the name that what happens in bureaucracies
(01:02:00):
registered in New York. It wasn't taken Old Maybe. Then
the board didn't like the name dot dot da. We
hired two naming companies, consultants, whatever, and they came up
with horrible names. In today's dollars, is probably four million
dollars of cost. And the first store was called Gap
(01:02:23):
Old Maybe, and it's like putting pepsine and hope here. Anyway,
long story short. The second store we called Old Navy,
and I loved that name. May Well nineteen thirty seven.
Someone showed me the sign. And that's why when I
say how much of what we all do is inside
(01:02:44):
us or inside a partner you work with, we have confidence.
Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
So Mickey, you know we believe or that we've been
out for an hour. I can't believe. This feels like
twenty minutes. But here's the question, so I know you're
a creature of habit. Paul. This guy goes to soul
cycle every day. He's in great shape, I mean really
great shape, and he never never misses. But what do
you worry about now at this stage of life. It
can't be money. You got all the money.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
I don't think he's a worrier. I don't think Mike
he's a warrior.
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Oh no, you don't know him.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Is he way?
Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
Way? Way?
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
You don't know him. You don't know him.
Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I don't believe in worrying.
Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Well, if you don't believe in it, give me the best, Senoran.
Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
I wish you'll help me on that.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
That's a tough one, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
All right? Well what are you worry.
Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
What keep you up? What makes you worry?
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I worry about well success. I worry about getting Alex
mill on the map and delivering for the next generation
a great comedy. And that's what I worry about. You know.
I don't have to worry about the things everyone else. Look,
(01:03:58):
I've been very lucky my life in that regard. But
I I'm you know something I got to tell you for.
It's the saying worries I've had for all these decades. Okay,
every day it's a worry.
Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Isn't it. Tell me if this isn't the truth. I'm
sure that this is. But tell me if you don't
think it is. You love to hire people who worry,
You want worriers?
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
All right, Well, it's you know, I love to hire
people who who aren't self important, who have a history
of working hard. I like to bolly with them on
an interview, because when you're volleying, you meet someone in
these unpreshing virns, you learn very quickly what they're like.
(01:04:46):
I like people who walk fast. I do I watch
them come down the hallway now, I like. I always
ask one of the big companies my assistance, I said,
what do you think of the handy because they're shoosing
and I hadn't always had offices or whatever. And I
listened to them, because what do you think? Look, interviewing
(01:05:10):
and all that is a matter of acting. Get the
resume together, figure out what the person is going to
ask you or me. And I always asked this to
on part time jobs. I always say, like someone worked
in Starbucks. I said, if you were the boss of
that store, what would you do differently? And he said
(01:05:35):
to me, he thought it was all good. This is
ten fifteen. I said, what about these counters that like
a disgusting would want to stop on them? But I
always asked, if they go to high school college, tell
me what you would do if you were the head
of the college the high school. And I asked people
on the woman who was a junior in high school Westchester,
(01:05:59):
and I heard the name, I said, who is the
name of the who was the high school named after?
No idea, you go to a high school, you want
to know whoever it is. This it's conversation. You know,
both of you pick it up and or your rehearse
and I resumes tell me so much because you know that,
(01:06:23):
oh you're doing this volunteer work to impress us. Yeah,
mostly can the ones who admit that I love I
did it because you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Another thing you have in common with Paul though, because
you're always talking about team, Well, it's not me. It
was the team. No, I didn't do that, it was
the team. I've been watching Paul's concerts since the nineteen seventies.
He's never done one show when he didn't introduce every
member of the band or the orchestra that he's working with,
and he gives them credit because that's that's And you're
(01:06:56):
the same way, Mickey. You've always been a guy to
share the credit with you people.
Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Well success as many fathers as we know.
Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
That's right. Look, you know, if I called my biggest
compliment is I'm a mensh and I'm hanging the shock now.
Trans you know, that's what people like today. This is
so many people so important.
Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Well, you just identified yourself because that's who you are,
and we and we love you for doing this. This
is for you to take the time of out of
your day to do this with us where it's fun
to talk to you.
Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
You know, I thought maybe Paul would teach me how
to sing, because I always actual worse voice in the world.
But it didn't.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Next time, well, Nikky, I'll on that note, on that note,
and I'm going to drop a name. I did some
work for Warren Buffett and it evolved into exactly what
you said. And I have him recorded singing by way.
Speaker 5 (01:07:54):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I took him in a studio and he plays it
every day in his office.
Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
So we're going to put the lean on you on
our next one because we've had different guests who have sung.
Oh my god, anybody can sing today, Mickey, and failing that,
you let me know when your birthday is or a
fiem in town.
Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Okay, you got it, and I'll.
Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Put something together for you and I to sing.
Speaker 6 (01:08:20):
How's that?
Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
Paul and Skip love you guys. This suit's fun. Let's
go on the road, take care of Thanks Again by
Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Our Way with Paul Anka and Skip Bronson is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
The show's executive producer is Jordan Runtogg, with supervising producer
and editor Marcy Depina.
Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
It was engineered by Todd Carlin and Graham Gibson, mixed
and mastered by a wonderful Mary Dude.
Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave
us a review.
Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
For more podcast ass on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Paul Anka
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